Question:

I will be in Alaska the first week of August.  My friends will spend a couple of days deer hunting, but I’d rather fish…. I would appreciate any information about rivers, hatches, prospects for flyfishing there. Thanks bdm in Houston —

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I will be in Alaska the first week of August.  My friends will spend a couple of days deer hunting, but I’d rather fish…. I would appreciate any information about rivers, hatches, prospects for flyfishing there. Thanks bdm in Houston —

Here’s a link to the Alaska Fish & Game page for Kodiak which should contain all information you’ll need for fishing in Alaska. http://www.sf.adfg.state.ak.us/region2/areas/kodiak/html/ahpr2kod.stm

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Question:

I’m looking for recommendations for Tarpon fly fishing in mid December.

Belize. Tarpon there aren’t huge (to around 100# mostly) but are plentiful. I like the Ambergris Caye area, but they got hit pretty hard by a hurricane this fall so you want to make sure they’ve got everything back up and running. — Charlie…

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I’m looking for recommendations for Tarpon fly fishing in mid December. Glen

I’ve fished Belize for Tarpon and had a great time, never caught one but did get a Permit and lots of Bone fish.   The area that I would recommend is the Florida Keys.   Talk to the people at Florida Keys Outfitters at:  1-305-664-5423   This is Sandy Moret’s school and FF shop.  They have the top guides… Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Before you buy.

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I’m looking for recommendations for Tarpon fly fishing in mid December. Glen

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Question:

I agree…I’ll never forget …I sent a friends brother a joke and of course the header contained all the addresses and names of other friends….this guy ’s brother sent everyone of them ads for his vitamins etc….I was very up[set that this guy would take advantage.. But people will do anything for a buck and fly fishing is no exception!

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rummy,                                                                                  I think they all do it everywhere!It ain’t just here!From   Mr. G to me. (don’t confuse us though)Whether it’s proper or not I’m not sure !Oh by the way if your planning a trip to the Smokies I live here & I’m a guide & fltyer who specializes in southern appalachian patterns if you need any contact me at

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What’s your point! Wayne to fish is human…to release divine (junk snipped)  comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

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Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over. comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

Hi Tom:         Two of the people that I have the most respect for, on this group, are Bill Kiene and Al Beatty. Al’s been gone mostly since taking a job with Hoffman Hackle and that was our loss, especially in the area of tying techniques. Bill’s been a great source of info regarding product and destinations. I’ve never seen a post from either of them that they didn’t offer some valuable information often to questions that they’ve answered many times over the last few years.         Tag lines can also give some basis for credability in an uncontrolled medium that has more than it’s share of poor information. Bill knows what product passes through his store and how satisfied his clients are with that product. In a retail position he also handles and uses a lot more stuff than most of us are familiar with or will use in several years. When someone asks about travel destinations or lodges he can offer some good objective information as someone that’s been to a number of different places, rather than a guy that made one trip several years ago. The guy that went to Mexico once can offer some helpful info based on his trip but the guy I really want to hear from is the one who has been there at several different times, seasons and locations. He’s got the experience to compare one place or time from another.         I’ve been guiding in Southwest Alaska for several years and lived on the Kenai Peninsula prior to that. I generally restrict my responses to guestions of those areas,and when I do respond I’ll usually include the name of the lodge where I work.         I’ve been on this group since 93 and I post very little and read perhaps 10% of the threads here each day. I lost my interest a long time ago in answering another thread on the best way to tie on a dropper or how to cast with lead. I do however have a lot of respect for guys like Bill and Al that have offered  a lot of very good and objective information over the years and I’ve never seen them hyping themselves or their products. Jim McGrath

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amazingly witty words: Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over. comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

I feel there are two types of advertising.  On the one side there is the advertising that is actually benifitial to the consumer (and I don’t mean by the product being advertised).  For example, television commercials pay for the programing seen on the t.v., banners on websites allow for certain websites to remain open, etc.   Then there is the unacceptable (in my opinion) advertising.  For example, junk mail (I hate it), road side billboards (I hate ‘em even more), and spam (I REALLY hate this!).  This type of advertising does not provide the consumer with anything in return for the advertising. Now I bring up the point I want to make, Mr. G.  Where does he fall in these catagories?  Well, I feel that he (other than the accidental mass mailing) falls within the former.  He advertises in this group but, he also contributes more than probably 75% of the people that read ROFF.  Personally, I don’t like the advertising (I hate almost every form of it) but I feel that since Mr. G contributes so much to this group, he has earned the right to advertise (if you don’t like it, don’t read his posts). Brian (the slightly drunk and pondering) Hailey

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 ….    Two of the people that I have the most respect for, on this group, are Bill Kiene and Al Beatty. Al’s been gone mostly since taking a job with Hoffman Hackle and that was our loss, especially in the area of tying techniques. Bill’s been a great source of info regarding product and destinations. …..

I talked to Al last night at the San Meteo Show and yes he is up to his neck in Hoffman feathers. He doesn’t read hear much or for that matter even post. He said he could be reached at the boards at the flyhop.com, mainly because he is the main judge of all the tying contests that Hoffman sponsors. — Doug Knight                                     metalfab<atpacbell.net Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

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Very good point. The question is what can we do about it? It’s fine and dandy foe someone to advertize a personal sale of a rod, reel or other item he has no use for, but to push their commercial goods on this newsgroup is really cheap! Advertise in one or all of the many publications available. I’m sure more sales will come of that and less flyfishers will be offended. We need this space to share, inquire and discuss our hobby & sport. I don’t have the time or inclination to navigate through so much spam to find an interestig message. Get off our turf! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over. comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

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Tom your right that this is an interesting issue. I’d be interested to hear what other think as well. There is no question that get rich quick and send money message (or those promoting sex sites) are not appropriate for this board but what about those message that are related to fly fishing. I mean this is a fly fishing board and posts whether promoting a fly fishing product or a fly fishing site I think should be allowed and welcomed as this is related to the topic of the newsgroup right? Much like a fly fishing magazine you have great articles editorials, heck in resources like events listed and among all those great articles and resource you have ad related to the topic of the magazine promoting products and services related to fly fishing. It would be one thing to have someone post everyday saying the same thing its another thing when someone posts once a week or twice a month about something related to fly fishing that others might enjoy right? How does everyone feel about this. I’m very interested in others views as this has become a continuing problems for business owners, site owners, and newsgroup viewers as well as the general public related to spam message and unsolicited email and such. Thanks for bring this up Tom it was a good idea to get everyone talking about this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over.  comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

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Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.

Yeah, I know how you feel. It used to bum me out too until I downloaded SpamOff!  (the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly) from http://www.spamoff.com !   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  

It’s not what I want! In fact I think it’s high time we took charge of this situation.  A good first step is probably downloading SpamOff! from http://www.spamoff.com Maybe if none of us read their stupid ads they’ll go away! If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over.

Sometimes I feel like it already has! Or I used to, anyway, in the pre-SpamOff! days. The days before some kind soul pointed me toward http://www.spamoff.com where I found the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly.  comments on the above would be very interesting.

Actually there might be some more comments on one of my favorite WWW discussion forums, http://www.spamoff.com, there’s a message board on these types of issues on that site. (PS: While you’re there you might want to download a FREE demo version of SpamOff! It’s the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly!)

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Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all. Yeah, I know how you feel. It used to bum me out too until I downloaded SpamOff!  (the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly) from http://www.spamoff.com !

Is this a spam for SpamOff? BTW, I couldn’t find a DNS entry for that URL. Maybe their server is down, or maybe they no longer exist.

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Yeah, I know how you feel. It used to bum me out too until I downloaded SpamOff!  (the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly) from http://www.spamoff.com ! Is this a spam for SpamOff? BTW, I couldn’t find a DNS entry for that URL. Maybe their server is down, or maybe they no longer exist.

It was a joke…or at least that’s what I took it to be. Cute though.      - Ken — "Time is but the stream I go a-fishin in. I drink at it, but while I drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. It’s thin current slides away, but eternity remains."     – H.D. Thoreau

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        Two of the people that I have the most respect for, on this group, are Bill Kiene and Al Beatty. Al’s been gone mostly since taking a job with Hoffman Hackle and that was our loss, especially in the area of tying techniques. Bill’s been a great source of info regarding product and destinations. I’ve never seen a post from either of them that they didn’t offer some valuable information often to questions that they’ve answered many times over the last few years.

snip Jim – I agree completely.  Has the sun returned yet up there? mark Faulkner

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Smokey,     I come down to the smokey’s 3 or 4 times a year (sometimes I fish the motor trail on the north end of the park) Maybe we can hook up a time or two this year if the price is right ! Good Luck David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rummy,          I think they all do it everywhere!It ain’t just here!From   Mr. G to me. (don’t confuse us though)Whether it’s proper or not I’m not sure !Oh by the way if your planning a trip to the Smokies I live here & I’m a guide & fltyer who specializes in southern appalachian patterns if you need any contact me at

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(the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly) from http://www.spamoff.com !

If you have spam on the fly, wouldn’t that be considered bait fishing?? Inquiring minds want to know. George Adams

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Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over.  comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

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Question:

 I am going to be on the East Coast in May, and am looking for information on where to fish in the Catskills ( or anything nearby).  Is it possible to avoid the crowds at that time of year. I will only  be able to fish for a couple of days. Any advice will be greatly  appreciated.

Catskills fly fishing for trout opens late April (Adirondacks late May) and there may be migratory shad in Delaware R. &c.  Some people like this season best (before mosquitoes appear) but popular locations can be crowded. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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where to fish in the Catskills ( or anything nearby). Any advice will be greatly  appreciated.

Chuck, the Catskills cover quite a sizeable chunk of Geography. Do you know where exactly you’ll be in that area? I have a cousin back there who guides on the Esopus, the Schoharie, Westkill, and some other small backcountry streams. He’s not a high-priced guide, in fact, he works for damn near nothing, but don’t  tell him I told you so. His greatest joy in showing off his streams to fly fishermen – and women. He lives in Catskill, but will be in Florida til early March I think. I can give you his number if you’re interested. Regards, Dennis

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 I am going to be on the East Coast in May, and am looking for information on where to fish in the Catskills ( or anything nearby).  Is it possible to avoid the crowds at that time of year. I will only  be able to fish for a couple of days. Any advice will be greatly  appreciated. Thanks, Chuck Remove nospam when replying by e-mail

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I am going to be on the East Coast in May, and am looking for information on where to fish in the Catskills ( or anything nearby). Is it possible to avoid the crowds at that time of year. I will only be able to fish for a couple of days. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Chuck Remove nospam when replying by e-mail

The Catskills will opkay in May but the fishing isn’t as good as it could be.  If youare coming east ou should come to NC where the weather in May is beautiful and we fish for striped bass and get around 100 or so gish per man per day on Deceivers and other types of streamers.  Check out my website for all the info. — Flyfish NC                                                   Gordon Churchill                                        http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/3853                                                                     Dragon’s Hope Publishing Heidi Dragon Churchill                                               Business cards, ad design, forms and all manner of desktop publishing.      

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Question:

Please post your fishing pictures in our new newsgroup: alt.binaries.pictures.fishing In fact, *anyone* with the means to post their fishing pictures is encouraged to do so as the posts have been few and far between. Stan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Check out the picture I posted in alt.binaries.pictures.animals of a nice cutthroat caught Dec. 24/96 in the Big Qualicum River on Vancouver Island. He took an egg fly which we brought with us from Ontario.

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Check out the picture I posted in alt.binaries.pictures.animals of a nice cutthroat caught Dec. 24/96 in the Big Qualicum River on Vancouver Island. He took an egg fly which we brought with us from Ontario.

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Fly Fishers, Since fishing the winter season in SE Minnesota I have encountered a problem with ice formation along the fly line and leader and in the line guides of the fly rod.  I’m sure this must be a common problem. Has anyone worked out a solution?  Please write. The absolute best way to avoid ice formation on your guides during winter is to travel far enough south to where the only ice that forms is meant for "pina coladas". I used to try flyfishing in winter too, until a bad fall caused by frozen felts on the shelf ice dumped me in the river. It was days before I finally got the chill out and weeks before my back quit aching. Since then, I wait until it warms up several degrees above freezing before venturing out. Tight lines! Guy

I guess you don’t go winter steelheading then???

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Dear Fly Fishers, Since fishing the winter season in SE Minnesota I have encountered a problem with ice formation along the fly line and leader and in the line guides of the fly rod.  I’m sure this must be a common problem. Has anyone worked out a solution?  Please write.  

The absolute best way to avoid ice formation on your guides during winter is to travel far enough south to where the only ice that forms is meant for "pina coladas". I used to try flyfishing in winter too, until a bad fall caused by frozen felts on the shelf ice dumped me in the river. It was days before I finally got the chill out and weeks before my back quit aching. Since then, I wait until it warms up several degrees above freezing before venturing out. Tight lines! Guy  

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Dear Fly Fishers, Since fishing the winter season in SE Minnesota I have encountered a problem with ice formation along the fly line and leader and in the line guides of the fly rod.  I’m sure this must be a common problem. Has anyone worked out a solution?  Please write.   Thank you Renner Anderson

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: Since fishing the winter season in SE Minnesota I have encountered a : problem with ice formation along the fly line and leader and in the : line guides of the fly rod.  I’m sure this must be a common problem. No kidding.  I will often hold the rod in the river for awhile, working the line in-and-out.  If the water’s cold this is not enough and I have to break it off the rod and line by hand.  Bummer.  I advise: be sure to keep the line and tip-top fairly clean otherwise you may be unable to reel the fatter part of the line in when mr. big is on.  I may be sensitive, but I’ve felt stupid breaking the ice off the rod while the steelie is jumping around at the other end.  Keeping the line well-treated helps.   I am ready to learn a better way,   rork.

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Dear Fly Fishers, Since fishing the winter season in SE Minnesota I have encountered a problem with ice formation along the fly line and leader and in the line guides of the fly rod.  I’m sure this must be a common problem. Has anyone worked out a solution?  Please write. Thank you Renner Anderson

heat tapes works good for me…run it off a 9volt battery pack.

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Question:

I recently moved to a place where I’ve got some decent smallmouth fishing very close by.  Hooked a few before the cold set in, but I don’t feel like I have a sense of how to fish for them.  This river–the Fox, in northern Illinois–is fairly slow and shallow with

David     I have been flyfishing for Delaware River smallmouth for over thirty years and I am possessed  …. and you can find me wet wading ( I really hate waders) 4 to 5 days a week every week until the  water gets too damn cold to wade  ( ~ first week in October). My experience has been that if it is too cold to wet wade… the smallmouth are too cold to bite… You catch a few  but nothing like in warm water coditions. In fact I have had 60 fish days with the water temp in the mid 80’s during the day fishing the riffle areas…. and wet wading under these conditions is almost like sex. Sometimes you just lay in the rapids on your back and cast or swim /float from rock to rock….. Can’t do that with waders ! My favorite smallmouth fishing is late  May and then late summer when the caddis flies hatch. The smallies lign up in fairly shallow, not too swift water and dimple.. You can no way judge the size of the fish by it’s tiny dimple… You would swear you were trout spotting.. I tie all my own flies and have found the following work the best.  caddis flie imitations work well as well as muddlers but sometimes matching the hatch is necessary. During summer the fish like wooly buggers etc. better , except towards evening then go on top with pencil poppers , snaeky pete types ~ 1 1/2 long ( including tail). I tie my pencil poppers with Maribou tails because they have better action. . give it a go !                                                                            Jody

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David,     I would have to agree with Keith — Wooly Buggers seem to be my all around best producer.  I live between the Missisippi and Rum rivers north of Minneapolis, MN and fish the rivers regularly through the summer and early fall months.  I would add that I’ve had good success in late spring (and again in early fall) with frog patterns fished along the shore during their breeding migration.  Kind of like a midwestern version of splatting hoppers…. Zach

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Dave, I’m on the SW side of the Chicago burbs and fish the Kanakakee a lot. Clousers wna Woolies work well as does a SMALL crayfish pattern.  The Kank is not as flat bottomed as the Fox.  Haven’t fished the Fox much so I can’t really say – when I did I used Clousers and did well.  I, too, have been tying like crazy.  One pattern I use a lot also is a variant of the Thunder Creek series – I tie in an olive saddle hackle or two matuka style before adding the deer tail.  Gives a little more action and works well. Kevin

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Two quick comments: don’t stop tying Muddlers, best smallie fly I’ve ever used; when the weather turns colder, don’t be afraid to use big nymphs around ledges, rocks, weed edges etc. Paul Marriner

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently moved to a place where I’ve got some decent smallmouth fishing very close by.  Hooked a few before the cold set in, but I don’t feel like I have a sense of how to fish for them.  This river–the Fox, in northern Illinois–is fairly slow and shallow with a hard bottom.  The couple of times I was on it early in the fall I was fishing Clouser Minnows, cast across stream into the edge of a riffle, for instance, drifted and then swung, with a little action. Around bridge pilings, etc.  Worked okay, but you never know… I’ve been tying like crazy–too damn cold around here to do anything else–including a variety of muddlers that I plan on trying.  I’m hoping to hear some more from you smallmouth fanatics out there about fav patterns and especially techniques. How about it, you basstards? Cheers, David (freezing my butt section off in the midwest)

David, I fish for smallmouth on the Shenandoah and Potomac Rivers. Smallmouth are often found feeding right alongside trout in this area. They are primarily structure fish, and will hang near undercut banks, deeper pools, near rocks and logs, but move around during the course of the season. Here in Virginia in the spring they’re caught with Wooley Buggers, Clousers, and other streamer patters. They are in the heads of most of the pools with back currents, and they take the fly with an "electric" tug. As the water warms, they tend to cruise to the shallows in search of minnows and other food, then back to the faster water for security. The surface action takes off here in June, and lasts through August and early September. They love poppers, hoppers, damsel flies, terrestrials, and streamers through the summer months, although as the water level here drops and gets clear, they become VERY wary and you may need to lengthen the leader and approach them with stealth. In the fall they tend to get particular, and may go for steamers one day, and the next take nothing but poppers. They often move into tails of pools, hug the banks and hide under rocks and stumps. My favorite pattern for the fall is not a bass fly at all, but the Adams Irrisistable! It’s a killer here, and they seem to love it when they’ve seen one popper too many. They love dries. Once you’ve been bitten by the Smallie bug, it’s too late. They jump like hell and fight like mules. And they don’t stop fighting when you get them out of the water to try and set them free. Because of this I think they’re one of the toughest fish to handle and de-hook. I can’t wait for this cold weather to get out of here. I want to go fishing!!! Keith in Waterford, VA

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently moved to a place where I’ve got some decent smallmouth fishing very close by.  Hooked a few before the cold set in, but I don’t feel like I have a sense of how to fish for them.  This river–the Fox, in northern Illinois–is fairly slow and shallow with a hard bottom.  The couple of times I was on it early in the fall I was fishing Clouser Minnows, cast across stream into the edge of a riffle, for instance, drifted and then swung, with a little action. Around bridge pilings, etc.  Worked okay, but you never know… I’ve been tying like crazy–too damn cold around here to do anything else–including a variety of muddlers that I plan on trying.  I’m hoping to hear some more from you smallmouth fanatics out there about fav patterns and especially techniques.   How about it, you basstards? Cheers, David (freezing my butt section off in the midwest)

Try an off white wooly bugger tied on a size 2 long shank hook. if the fish are shallow don’t use any weight.  If they are deep tie in a little silver thread.  Adding a little green to the tail also works well. Rick.

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I recently moved to a place where I’ve got some decent smallmouth fishing very close by.  Hooked a few before the cold set in, but I don’t feel like I have a sense of how to fish for them.  This river–the Fox, in northern Illinois–is fairly slow and shallow with a hard bottom.  The couple of times I was on it early in the fall I was fishing Clouser Minnows, cast across stream into the edge of a riffle, for instance, drifted and then swung, with a little action. Around bridge pilings, etc.  Worked okay, but you never know… I’ve been tying like crazy–too damn cold around here to do anything else–including a variety of muddlers that I plan on trying.  I’m hoping to hear some more from you smallmouth fanatics out there about fav patterns and especially techniques.   How about it, you basstards? Cheers, David (freezing my butt section off in the midwest)

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Question:

Try fishing Daniels Park on the Chagrin. It has a Dam which is the end of the line for the fish, unless the water is very high. There is a good holding pool below the dam and a few runs downstream could hold winter Steelhead. Since it is a public park, it does tend to get pressure during Salmon and Trout runs. Good luck, and release them. Tom Steele

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Has anyone had any success flyfishing for steelhead around the Cleveland area? Grand River, Chagrin, ect. I know the rain should have brought in a few fish over the last few days. Thanks in advanceI just came to this group looking for the same info.  There is a shopcalled Grand river Tackle shopwho usually has the skinny on cleveland area steelies.

IS IT POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO POST "Grand River Tackle" (’s) address and/or phone number,  please. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink

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Don’t tell anyone else, but the Plain Dealer had a "kiss and tell" article about how awesome the steelhead fishing is in the Grand, Conneat and Chagrin. Seems the Little Manistee River fingerlings that were stocked a while back have made it all happen. Oh, I guess all the rain we had over the last week pumped up the rivers to allow the silver bullets to pass through the gate. As we speak, I am tying egg sucking leaches and garish colored woolly worms. Guess you can tell what I will be doing this weekend. (Plus there are NO soccer games this weekend!!) Mark Rupp

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Has anyone had any success flyfishing for steelhead around the Cleveland area? Grand River, Chagrin, ect. I know the rain should have brought in a few fish over the last few days. Thanks in advanceI just came to this group looking for the same info.  There is a

shopcalled Grand river Tackle shopwho usually has the skinny on   cleveland area steelies.

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Has anyone had any success flyfishing for steelhead around the Cleveland area? Grand River, Chagrin, ect.       I know the rain should have brought in a few fish over the last few days. Thanks in advance

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Question:

Please don’t feed the this monster of a thread.  Mr. Wieser is just waiting to pounce.  Check out his page, wage legal war with him via. e-mail, but please, we beg of you, don’t get him started on r.b.p… – Bill Herring – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Scott Weiser Wrote Irrelevant. If you float through private property without permission, you are trespassing.  There are only two navigable waters in Colorado, and the Cache La Poudre is not one of them. That is absolutely untrue.  That river gets "navigated" every year by hundreds if not thousands of people.  Stating that boaters are trespassing is like saying the folks who walk down the sidewalk in your front yard are trespassing–blatantly false.  Actually they probably cross the street in front of your house to avoid the possibility of armed conflict with a maniac.  

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Many boaters have a bad habit of trashing the shoreline and than loudly proclaiming their rights to continue to navigate.

I must rise in protest! While it no doubt happens on rare occasion, I have NEVER seen a boater trash a shoreline ( I do not regard foot and butt prints as "trashing", and that’s about all we might leave behind)

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Many boaters have a bad habit of trashing the shoreline

I don’t any who trash the shoreline, matter of fact most I know stay in their boats.  When I talked to a Ranger down on the Ark last year, he said boaters were pretty good, almost all the trash he picked up was fishing trash.  Since this issue came up, I’ve checked places like Sunshine in the Royal Gorge, the scouts and put-in at Gore, and other high traffic areas everytime I’m there, and there has never been anything in the way of trash. Matter of fact I challenge you or anyone to show me a place that is dominated by boaters, and is trashed out (at least in Colorado). –Chris

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While land owners may own the land and riparian rights to the waters bottom, they do not in fact, own the water itself and I’m almost positive that any river can be "navigated" through private property.  It would certainly be nice to have the owners permission to avoid any misunderstandings and asking in advance could only help relations between the land owner and boaters.  Regardless of the legal issue here, I think I’d be inclined to opt for not trespassing if that’s what the land owner wished.  I can imagine if there was a pristine river running across my land I’d not want a bunch of canoes and kayaks traversing it every day. Many boaters have a bad habit of trashing the shoreline and than loudly proclaiming their rights to continue to navigate.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Scott Weiser Wrote Irrelevant. If you float through private property without permission, you are trespassing.  There are only two navigable waters in Colorado, and the Cache La Poudre is not one of them. That is absolutely untrue.  That river gets "navigated" every year by hundreds if not thousands of people.  Stating that boaters are trespassing is like saying the folks who walk down the sidewalk in your front yard are trespassing–blatantly false.  Actually they probably cross the street in front of your house to avoid the possibility of armed conflict with a maniac.   tdq

Yesssss!  And SET the hook!  Now, let the little bugger run till he tires and reel him in… Sorry, you are quite wrong.  Floating through private property in Colorado without the permission of the landowner is a criminal trespass.  Just because people get away with it doesn’t make it legal. You might want to check out my website for a discussion of this issue. http://spot.Colorado.EDU/~weisers I guess it’s time for yet another round of this ongoing discussion.   Let the games begin! — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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. . . what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?

Well, we’re both very polite to each other while we trespass along stream banks. — Richard Culpeper "Hour after hour, day after day, far from sight of shore, We laughed and sang and slept under the hot sun on the northern ocean, Wanting never to return."         — Kimosippi ‘95 —

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. . . what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette? Well, we’re both very polite to each other while we trespass along stream banks. — Richard Culpeper "Hour after hour, day after day, far from sight of shore, We laughed and sang and slept under the hot sun on the northern ocean, Wanting never to return."         — Kimosippi ‘95 —

Paddlers usually aren’t trespassing along stream banks!!!  They are merely in transit from the put-in to the take-out!! terry dq

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?   Hi everyone, This weekend I had some bad experiences with kayakers while fishing the Cache La Poudre River in Colorado.  The river was full of kayakers and whitewater rafters.  To my surprise, the whitewater rafters were usually pretty courteous when passing my way (going well away from where I was fishing and coasting by as quietly as possible), but the kayakers were another story – they’d cruise by close to me, splashing each other, talking loudly – one group of four kayakers even stopped in the section I was fishing to perform maneuvers!   I understand that the river is for everyone, and because of that I don’t cast when kayakers are around.  But I’d like to think they could show the same type of courtesy by moving through the area slowly and quietly.

Tom Visnius had a nice take on this issue as part of a story about a high-water descent of the Pigeon River Dries (NC).  The story was printed first in Messing About, the newsletter of the Western Carolina Paddlers.  Tom has since placed it in his homepage.  Read it at http:\www.cs.unca.edu/~johnsonk/club/pigeon.html. — Chris The relevant passage (by Tom Visnius): Phil and I were the only kayakers hanging out at the campground for a little while. As we waited, I asked a fly-fisherman about an etiquette issue that had been bothering me since my trip down Cataloochee Creek. On creeks in the Park, there’s not a lot of room for both hunter and boater, so it is crucial to communicate to each other how you would like to commingle. Does a boater give the fisher a wide berth, thereby floating directly over the trout that he has been sneaking up on? Or does a boater float right next to the fisher’s knees and risk an assault from a surprised sportsman? This result is not unlikely, so regardless of your right-of-way philosophy, it is worth noting that there are many fishermen who visit Smoky Mountain National Park, and boaters should attempt to communicate with them. Then proceed with caution. The fellow I talked to preferred the idea of boaters paddling close to him so as not to spook the trout.

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I fished alot on the Arkansas and Animas river in Colorado.  The Animas is big enough that if your standing a few feet from one shore the rafter can go to the other side.  Most of the time I am nymphing fairly close to where I’m standing.  In the Arkansas case, its a little narrower and sometimes, if I notice them soon enough, I will step out of the water and let the kyaker or rafter float right over, or better yet to the shore side, of where I was standing. They are usually very willing to remove their feet and oars from the water as they pass by.  Most of them are quite willing to accomodate my directions if the water depth is OK. But you run into jerks in any endeavor. I wouldn’t let it ruin my day.   When it does happen I do get a little agitated and probably verbalize it but I try not to let it linger. Bill A.

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People kayak the Big South occasionally, but they have keepers who take them back to the Home directly from the takeout so that they won’t be a danger to society.

I resemble…I mean resent that remark…. –Chris

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – . . . what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette? Well, we’re both very polite to each other while we trespass along stream banks. — Richard Culpeper "Hour after hour, day after day, far from sight of shore, We laughed and sang and slept under the hot sun on the northern ocean, Wanting never to return."         — Kimosippi ‘95 — Paddlers usually aren’t trespassing along stream banks!!!  They are merely in transit from the put-in to the take-out!! terry dq

Irrelevant. If you float through private property without permission, you are trespassing.  There are only two navigable waters in Colorado, and the Cache La Poudre is not one of them. — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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Scott, Do us all a big favor and go crawl back under the rock you’ve been hiding under (or was that bloated mass you were cowering under your mother?). Your recent absence from this newsgroup has been wonderful. If you really were stupid enough to cast toward and snag someone (and from your posts, it seems likely you are), you would be entirely deserving of the beating your pathetic corpse received.

So sorry, I’ll try to interject more often, it certainly spices things up doesn’t it. Like I said, civil is as civil does. I just cast, if you happen to be in the way, too damned bad, you had plenty of time to see where I was fishing and avoid it, or at least do the polite thing and pass quietly behind me so as not to put the fish down for a half hour by your antics. If you act like a jerk, you get treated like a jerk.   — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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. . . what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette? Well, we’re both very polite to each other while we trespass along stream banks.

Er, actually, you are probably trespassing when you are *in* the river, boaters and fisherpersons alike, unless you are on Forest Service land or other public land. — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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Scott Weiser Wrote Irrelevant. If you float through private property without permission, you are trespassing.  There are only two navigable waters in Colorado, and the Cache La Poudre is not one of them.

That is absolutely untrue.  That river gets "navigated" every year by hundreds if not thousands of people.  Stating that boaters are trespassing is like saying the folks who walk down the sidewalk in your front yard are trespassing–blatantly false.  Actually they probably cross the street in front of your house to avoid the possibility of armed conflict with a maniac.   tdq

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I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: DirecPC   Lines: 23 NNTP-Posting-Host: host-37.customer.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Hi everyone, This weekend I had some bad experiences with kayakers while fishing the Cache La Poudre River in Colorado.  The river was full of kayakers and whitewater rafters.  To my surprise, the whitewater rafters were usually pretty courteous when passing my way (going well away from where I was fishing and coasting by as quietly as possible), but the kayakers were another story – they’d cruise by close to me, splashing each other, talking loudly – one group of four kayakers even stopped in the section I was fishing to perform maneuvers!   I understand that the river is for everyone, and because of that I don’t cast when kayakers are around.  But I’d like to think they could show the same type of courtesy by moving through the area slowly and quietly. I guess the easy solution to my problem is to find a section of the river that is kayaker/rafter free.  Does anyone know of any such section of the Poudre?  How about flyfishing only sections and/or catch and release sections? Any help/comments appreciated!  Thanks for reading this. Mike Stephens

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I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment. Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?  

I, fortunately, have had better experiences than this, being both a fisherman and a paddler on a river at different times. I think most fishermen & paddlers can peacefully co-exist most of the time. The biggest thing paddlers have to remember is that fish like to hang out in eddies also. Fortunately though, most good paddling areas are too strong to fish effectively. Paddle On… -Tom McIntire

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I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?  

(snip) It sucks. If I were fishing and someone pulled this on me, I’d tie on a #10 weighted Wooly Bugger on 15 lb. test tippet and thwack them smartly on the head.  With any luck, I’d even snag an expensive Goretex jacket and rip a great big hole in it, and maybe them. In fact, I did manage to puncture a polycheapo raft with a drunken lout in it on the Rogue River a couple of weeks ago who did exactly that. When I’m fishing, you’d better be polite, or stay out of range. — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?   (snip) It sucks. If I were fishing and someone pulled this on me, I’d tie on a #10 weighted Wooly Bugger on 15 lb. test tippet and thwack them smartly on the head.  With any luck, I’d even snag an expensive Goretex jacket and rip a great big hole in it, and maybe them. In fact, I did manage to puncture a polycheapo raft with a drunken lout in it on the Rogue River a couple of weeks ago who did exactly that. When I’m fishing, you’d better be polite, or stay out of range. Scott Weiser

I see the hugely entertaining Mr. Wieser has once again blessed our humble piece of bandwidth with his presence. The above sounds like a great idea.  Someone is rude or comes too close, so you try to put a hook in them.  A very civil solution.  Or you could just "shoot to wound".  That’ll teach ‘em! – Bill Herring "Can’t we just all get along?" – Rodney King

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Can anyone tell me if they are happy with Nautiraid? I am thinking of a folding boat purchase but have not heard much about Nautiraid.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?   (snip) It sucks. If I were fishing and someone pulled this on me, I’d tie on a #10 weighted Wooly Bugger on 15 lb. test tippet and thwack them smartly on the head.  With any luck, I’d even snag an expensive Goretex jacket and rip a great big hole in it, and maybe them. In fact, I did manage to puncture a polycheapo raft with a drunken lout in it on the Rogue River a couple of weeks ago who did exactly that. When I’m fishing, you’d better be polite, or stay out of range. Scott Weiser I see the hugely entertaining Mr. Wieser has once again blessed our humble piece of bandwidth with his presence. The above sounds like a great idea.  Someone is rude or comes too close, so you try to put a hook in them.  A very civil solution.  Or you could just "shoot to wound".  That’ll teach ‘em!

Hey, *some* people are so dense they require operant conditioning and aversion therapy to get the message. Civil is as civil does. — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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What is a #10 Wooly Bugger?  Sounds like what my brother’s girlfriend used to call his… Whoops!  Sorry, gotta get back to work… Ed

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly This weekend I had some bad experiences with kayakers while fishing the Cache La Poudre River in Colorado.  The river was full of kayakers and whitewater rafters.  To my surprise, the whitewater rafters were usually pretty courteous when passing my way (going well away from where I was fishing and coasting by as quietly as possible), but the kayakers were another story – they’d cruise by close to me, splashing each other, talking loudly – one group of four kayakers even stopped in the section I was fishing to perform maneuvers! My personal opinion is that you should discreetly suggest that they move on…try a subtle suggestion… "GET THE HELL OUTTA MY DRIFT YOU YUPPIE BASTARD OR I’LL CREASE YOUR NOODLE" (Stolen without permission from "Fear of Flyfishing"). TimW (Only kidding, violence is not a good suggestion…now, letting the air out of the tires of their shuttle vehicle, THAT can be VERY effective and satisfying).

My thoughts exactly!  I’ve  had similar problems lately on the small river I fish in southwestern Michigan.  It’s quite popular with tubers.   Right now, the window of opportunity for a flyfisherman is limited to approx. a half hour to an hour before dark.  I was out on Sunday and didn’t see a soul until just before dark.  Guess what?  I didn’t see any other fisherman but two separate groups of tubers floated by just as the fish were getting active.  While on the of the tubers was courteous enough to ask where I was fishing, his partner ignored me and floated right over a rising fish.  Then, the second group floated by a few minutes later and showed no consideration whatsoever.  There’s no way they could have finished their float trip by dark.  They have all damn day to float yet they choose to recreate at dusk showing no respect for anyone else.  It puts evil thoughts in your mind.  Of course, the obligatory floatilla of bobbing beer cans followed in close pursuit. BFisher

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Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly This weekend I had some bad experiences with kayakers while fishing the Cache La Poudre River in Colorado.  The river was full of kayakers and whitewater rafters.  To my surprise, the whitewater rafters were usually pretty courteous when passing my way (going well away from where I was fishing and coasting by as quietly as possible), but the kayakers were another story – they’d cruise by close to me, splashing each other, talking loudly – one group of four kayakers even stopped in the section I was fishing to perform maneuvers!

My personal opinion is that you should discreetly suggest that they move on…try a subtle suggestion… "GET THE HELL OUTTA MY DRIFT YOU YUPPIE BASTARD OR I’LL CREASE YOUR NOODLE" (Stolen without permission from "Fear of Flyfishing"). TimW (Only kidding, violence is not a good suggestion…now, letting the air out of the tires of their shuttle vehicle, THAT can be VERY effective and satisfying).

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(snip) If I were fishing and someone pulled this on me, I’d tie on a #10 weighted Wooly Bugger on 15 lb. test tippet and thwack them smartly on the head.  With any luck, I’d even snag an expensive Goretex jacket and rip a great big hole in it, and maybe them. In fact, I did manage to puncture a polycheapo raft with a drunken lout in it on the Rogue River a couple of weeks ago who did exactly that. When I’m fishing, you’d better be polite, or stay out of range.

Scott, Do us all a big favor and go crawl back under the rock you’ve been hiding under (or was that bloated mass you were cowering under your mother?). Your recent absence from this newsgroup has been wonderful. If you really were stupid enough to cast toward and snag someone (and from your posts, it seems likely you are), you would be entirely deserving of the beating your pathetic corpse received. Regards, Andy The opinions expressed above are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly This weekend I had some bad experiences with kayakers while fishing the Cache La Poudre River in Colorado.  The river was full of kayakers and whitewater rafters.  To my surprise, the whitewater rafters were usually pretty courteous when passing my way (going well away from where I was fishing and coasting by as quietly as possible), but the kayakers were another story – they’d cruise by close to me, splashing each other, talking loudly – one group of four kayakers even stopped in the section I was fishing to perform maneuvers!   I understand that the river is for everyone, and because of that I don’t cast when kayakers are around.  But I’d like to think they could show the same type of courtesy by moving through the area slowly and quietly. I guess the easy solution to my problem is to find a section of the river that is kayaker/rafter free.  Does anyone know of any such section of the Poudre?  How about flyfishing only sections and/or catch and release sections?

I kayak sections of the Poudre below the Narrows regularly.  The water has indeed come down enough so that fishermen (and women) are starting to appear on sections that boaters use.  Earlier in the season, these sections are not really fishable, and much of it still cannot be waded. Commercial rafters on the Poudre usually don’t conflict with fisherpeople because they don’t eddy out very often.  They sail on by _everything_, and to give their customers the most exciting ride, they tend to look for the fastest current and the biggest waves, which will take them away from fisherpeople.  This search for excitement, however, sometimes causes inexperienced guides to flip rafts on otherwise inoccuous sections of the river, and they have been known to literally run over kayakers.  We generally sit in the eddies as they go by because of this. Reasonable kayakers usually stay away from fisherpeople.  The river, after all, is to be shared, and most kayakers do their playing in territory which is not very good for fishing.  Several possiblities for conflict on the Poudre do arise, however: 1.  The Filter Plant run has good holding and wading water and is quite     fishable.  Novice kayakers still use it, though, and they may not     yet be properly "socialized." 2.  The well-known pop-up hole on the Bridges run has an eddy immediately     below it where kayakers wait their turn to attempt enders.  I have     heard that a couple of fishermen have decided that they need to fish     that particular eddy, and they will attempt to drive kayakers away.     Sometimes they will appear when kayakers are there and demand that     they leave.  I have not personally observed this behavior. 3.  I encountered a fisherman at the bottom of PineView Falls who was     casting into an eddy on the far side of the river.  The area is not     wadeable, although the eddy may have held some fish.  The river is     narrow at that point, so the cast was easy, but the presence of his     line all the way across the river created a problem for any kayak or     raft running PineView. Other possibilities for conflict exist anywhere there is an eddy.  By the way, when communicating with fisherpeople, kayakers should be aware that they may refer to an eddy as a "hole," a term which has a different meaning for us! As for good fishing, a couple of places come to mind.  As I mentioned, much of the Filter Plant run is pretty good, and has reduced kayak traffic when the water is low.  Keep #1 above in mind, however.  What traffic there is may be irritating because they don’t know any better. The section above the low bridge below Rustic is rumored to be excellent trout water, and the flatwater curves below the fish hatchery (the Indian Meadows area) are well-known for providing excellent fishing. Indian Meadows is wild trout water, with special restrictions on what you can keep.  No problem for catch-and-release. The Big South fork has some nice fishing water about half a mile from the highway.  People kayak the Big South occasionally, but they have keepers who take them back to the Home directly from the takeout so that they won’t be a danger to society.      John Cooley

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Question:

Can anybody fill me in with details regards current models of Zebco multiplier reels available in the USA? Dear Mike:

Zebco has a web site on the internet that I’m sure will supply you with all the required information.  http://www.dfrontiers.com/zebco/ T.J.

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Can anybody fill me in with details regards current models of Zebco multiplier reels available in the USA? I’m interested in those with a spool capacity between 250 and 350 yards of 15lb mono line. Thanks in advance and tightlines! Mike

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Can anybody fill me in with details regards current models of Zebco multiplier reels available in the USA? I’m interested in those with a spool capacity between 250 and 350 yards of 15lb mono line. Thanks in advance and tightlines! Mike

Give them a shot at their WWW address http://www.zebco.com/ Regards          Rx F Fish "For Your Good Health, Fly Fish" URL=http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish

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