Question:

If the Guardians win in court, or if the government settles, the number of

cows a rancher is allowed to graze with his permit is cut. That hands the Guardians a double victory: Not only does the land get a breather, but the rancher has to pay much more to feed his displaced cows on private land. Interesting concept that "free market"  Sounds like the ranchers prefer a Socialist type system.

Response:

I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east…

Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to move that land into less intensive uses. Thomas Gilg

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east… Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to move that land into less intensive uses. Thomas Gilg

Also what has to be remembered is that the ranchers who won’t be able to afford higher grazing fees will be the smaller family operations. The bigger ones will be able to absorb any increased costs. By most accounts grazing is a problem ( a huge problem in some instances) along the riparian corridors out west but it is also problematic if the solution only brings about the demise of family ranches to the benefit of the huge multi-national conglomerate run outfits. No one said this was going to be easy. George C.

Response:

 What our outdoor wildlife inventories need is the total removal of all livestock that steal their food and habitat. Why? Because wildlife is more valuable to a state’s economy as it is to the Federal Economy. Allowing grazing on Federal (PUBLIC) lands to individual ranchers is stupid economics. George G.

Response:

|

| I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of | depopulation in rural communities back east… | | Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was | several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners | were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does | appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider | myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I | also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring | in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an | opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend | (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – | I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend | lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off | (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to | move that land into less intensive uses. | | Thomas Gilg | | | | | Also what has to be remembered is that the ranchers who won’t be able to afford | higher grazing fees will be the smaller family operations. The bigger ones will | be able to absorb any increased costs. By most accounts grazing is a problem ( a | huge problem in some instances) along the riparian corridors out west but it is | also problematic if the solution only brings about the demise of family ranches | to the benefit of the huge multi-national conglomerate run outfits. | | No one said this was going to be easy. | George C. | That may be true, too. The reason my grandfather specialized, was to devote more acres to one crop, to be able to absorb the fixed overheads. But even he had just 500 acres. My father struggled to make money. I refused to take over – it was clear at an early age that it simply COULD NOT be profitable, because of/despite the (socialist) policies of the Common Agricultural Policy, dreamed up by the EU. These same policies were actually intended to protect the family farm. In reality they destroyed it. Q. How far do we go, to protect the family farm? The French have split their farms between 2 (or more) sons for generations. Now they have 100-acre farms that are mere subsistence farming. On an environmental tack – I would prefer to see people grazing farm land that is already farm land & lacking farmers, rather than grazing the more fragile environments often (but not always) found on federal lands. Take the money farm managers pay and use it to encourage farmers to take up the land that has been converted from it’s natural state, into My family were TENANT farmers. After my father & his brother retired, the farm was bought from the landlord & is now actually profitable. Q. HOW – by finding a niche. The current farmers don’t try to compete with the large managed farms. They run an organic farm – even the wool is organic. They don’t need help competing, because they specialisze. I suspect the family-ranchers here in the SW USA will have to also find a niche.

Response:

Even if they are, that just means more money needs to be spent on enforcing the current restrictions, not coming up with more.

And sadly the folks breaking the law are the same ones against any additional government enforcement of the law. Thomas Gilg

Response:

| I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze | that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? | | In this country, you are entitled to your own opinion…. even when it’s an | incorrect one. Maybe if you’d actually get out there and meet a real | cattleman, you’d change your tune. | | George– | This is Cindy… Brian’s wife writing now.  I cannot believe your comments | regarding ranchers/cattlemen ripping off the consumer.  I grew up in Eastern | Montana on a small ranch.  My father received 70-90 cents per pound for his | calves sold every fall.  This fall the price given to cattlemen for their | calves is still 70-75 cents per pound.  Not much of a raise over the past 20 | years.  Your accusations against the ranchers holds no water.  You are | basically talking out of your rear-end.  If you would do some research and | cared about your country, you would see that the family ranches are unable | to support their families. I grew up on a farm in England – we raised beef without ANY cheap grazing. We found a way – we rented permanent pasture, that was atop historic monuments (and couldn’t be ploughed), we housed steers in the old milking parlour during the Winter (after a milking herd ceased to be profitable), but we NEVER had grazing land subsidised by the taxpayer. We made a living growing beef. Any help we can give the ranchers in the use of | public lands is money put back into our economy and assistance to families | who are trying to make a living providing food for your table.  And just in | case you are a vegetarian, don’t forget those ranchers who graze cattle on | public land can then use the land they own to grow grain and barley for your | bread.  Don’t be such a twit. | | Boy, George… did you ever step in it!! When Cindy reads over my shoulder | and kicks me off the keyboard…. well, you get the drift. | — | Tight Lines! | Brian D. Nelson | Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana | www.diamondnoutfitters.com | |

Response:

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.

Brian D. Nelson responded: I can recall many times having the BLM officer who monitors the grazing permits … I also know of ranchers (not many, though) who lost their grazing permits … You,  sir, are clueless.

Across the west you’ll find varying compliance with grazing permits. Ditto logging laws and so on. I regularily volunteer to help with multi-agency state/federal fish surveys in eastern Oregon, and it is not uncommon to find cattle grazing well outside their permitted range. In one case we were surveying for bull trout in a remote backcountry area where grazing permits had been eliminated several years before, and yet we still found cattle and signs of regular grazing activity *inside the former and still-fenced allotments*. Some of the agency folks were suppose to followup on that discovery. Thomas Gilg

Response:

eliminated several years before, and yet we still found cattle and signs of regular grazing activity *inside the former and still-fenced allotments*. Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.

I’m sure there are instances of illegal activity such as you described. However, from my experience, I don’t believe that these instances are "commonplace". — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

FISHING RELATED POST?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G. You never met a cattleman, period. —

Response:

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.  As enforcement by the government is almost nonexistant, that shouldn’t be surprising.  These common practices do constitute theft in anyone’s book.

Obviously, you’ve never spent any time in eastern Montana where a lot of grazing is done on BLM. I can recall many times having the BLM officer who monitors the grazing permits in our area come around to check grass conditions, number of cattle, water hole conditions, whether or not the ranchers are pulling there cows off public ground at the designated time, etc., etc., etc. I also know of ranchers (not many, though) who lost their grazing permits (and they should) for not following the stipulated conditions on their permit. This same scenario (the proper management of grazing permits) happens all across the American West on both National Forest System Lands and Bureau of Land Management lands. You,  sir, are clueless. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

|  What our outdoor wildlife inventories need is the total removal of all | livestock that steal their food and habitat. | | Why? | | Because wildlife is more valuable to a state’s economy as it is to the | Federal Economy. | | Allowing grazing on Federal (PUBLIC) lands to individual ranchers is stupid | economics. | | George G. | | | | | | | When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush | too I suppose. | — That’s why I advocate using funds collected from grazing federal lands be used to induce ranchers to use land that has already been converted to farming.  I’d rather convert from arable to grazing land, than forest/prairie to grazing land ! I don’t accept that it’s a choice between cattle & tourists – it’s more of a choice between cattle & migrants. But if we convince ranchers to move East onto arable land, we come closer to both protecting our fragile environments AND providing beef at competitive prices (compared to Argentinean beef). P.S. I remember paying $9 a pound for beef in the UK – beef was one of the most expensive forms of meat. But now I pay $9 a pound for Stilton cheese instead (I paid $3-4 a pound for Stilton in the UK).

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east… Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to move that land into less intensive uses.

That approach is far too thoughtful and intelligent for the hard core greenies to comprehend, let alone follow.

Response:

  When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose.

Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G.

Response:

Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past?

Boy, George, are you living in the netherworld if you think ranchers have ANY influence on the retail price of beef. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

What’s to do with FISHING anyways?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Boy, George, are you living in the netherworld if you think ranchers have ANY influence on the retail price of beef. What, are you suggesting that both ends are getting screwed by the large corporations in the middle? How un-American! Jon.

Response:

<When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose. What if some of us don’t bother to eat that brown shit?

Response:

If it’s brown – you’re cooking it wrong !

| <When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush | too I suppose. | | What if some of us don’t bother to eat that brown shit?

Response:

It’s "If it’s brown it’s down."  Food from grist for the mill. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -If it’s brown – you’re cooking it wrong ! | <When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush | too I suppose. | | What if some of us don’t bother to eat that brown shit?

Response:

  When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother.

christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G.

You don’t have to like them, you have that right, but they are not stealing anything. As long as they have grazing permits it is legal.

Response:

I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother?

In this country, you are entitled to your own opinion…. even when it’s an incorrect one. Maybe if you’d actually get out there and meet a real cattleman, you’d change your tune. George– This is Cindy… Brian’s wife writing now.  I cannot believe your comments regarding ranchers/cattlemen ripping off the consumer.  I grew up in Eastern Montana on a small ranch.  My father received 70-90 cents per pound for his calves sold every fall.  This fall the price given to cattlemen for their calves is still 70-75 cents per pound.  Not much of a raise over the past 20 years.  Your accusations against the ranchers holds no water.  You are basically talking out of your rear-end.  If you would do some research and cared about your country, you would see that the family ranches are unable to support their families.  Any help we can give the ranchers in the use of public lands is money put back into our economy and assistance to families who are trying to make a living providing food for your table.  And just in case you are a vegetarian, don’t forget those ranchers who graze cattle on public land can then use the land they own to grow grain and barley for your bread.  Don’t be such a twit. Boy, George… did you ever step in it!! When Cindy reads over my shoulder and kicks me off the keyboard…. well, you get the drift. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G. You don’t have to like them, you have that right, but they are not stealing anything. As long as they have grazing permits it is legal.

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.  As enforcement by the government is almost nonexistant, that shouldn’t be surprising.  These common practices do constitute theft in anyone’s book. Jon

Response:

I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east – sorry, can’t remember the exact state, possibly one of the Dakotas. The program talked about how more people are getting college education and moving away to city jobs, leaving rural life. As a result some farmers are converting their land back to prairie. What little I know of the Eastern states, I’d guess this is some pretty decent farm land being lost.  I also recently read about farm land in Wisconsin being converted back to forest. I know that here in the Southwest, we are enduring one of the worst droughts ever. Phoenix has had just 2.24 inches of rain this year, and may get no more rain until February or March. People are leaving the East and moving out West in huge numbers, and so people & agriculture are competing for many natural resources. So, it doesn’t sound so bad to me, when  "Hard-line environmentalists" are simply helping to maximize the reward to the taxpayers, from the business use of  Federal land. In a free market economy the cost for federal grazing rights should b e"all the market will bear". I know that there is an argument that this policy will reduce domestic beef production & increase imports. Well……perhaps we should consider the most efficient way this country feeds its’self. As a taxpayer and an eater, I want the cheapest (safe) beef I can get. This allows me to spend more of my income on other (US-made) products. It’s a tough life being a farmer. My grandfather was a successful farmer in England. He changed & correctly predicted the trends and made a profit – he didn’t need subsidies. He changed a farm that was widely diversified (sugarbeet, chickens, barley & milk, were just some of the products) to a farm that was specialized – he was one of the first in the area to see the demand for oil seed rape. As a farmer it doesn’t seem fair that a successful way of life is being changed. But all forms of business change over time – including farming.

|         www.sfgate.com        Return to regular view | In the old West, a tense showdown over federal lands | JIM CARLTON, The Wall Street Journal | Monday, November 11, 2002 |

Question:

I was hoping someone  had some information or plans on how i could build some fishing rod holders for my garage. I want to screw them to the ceiling. Thanks in advance for any help Wade

Response:

Wade, If no one has plans, let me know and I will trace mine for you. Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was hoping someone  had some information or plans on how i could build some fishing rod holders for my garage. I want to screw them to the ceiling. Thanks in advance for any help Wade

Response:

One of the best ways to hold your rods to the rafters of your garage is to install lengths of PVC pipe from the rafters.  Size determines how many rods you can put in each pipe. Single storage for the small pipe, multiple storage several rods in one spot.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was hoping someone  had some information or plans on how i could build some fishing rod holders for my garage. I want to screw them to the ceiling. Thanks in advance for any help Wade

Response:

    This depends on what you are looking for.  As for mine, they are made from lenghts of 4" PVC pipe.  I have to cap mine, no glue, to keep the insects out.  Also keeps the dust and dirt off the equipment.  I have them tied to the ceiling stringers with cord as my garage is not lined.     Thought I’d pass this along.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was hoping someone  had some information or plans on how i could build some fishing rod holders for my garage. I want to screw them to the ceiling. Thanks in advance for any help Wade

Response:

I was hoping someone  had some information or plans on how i could build some fishing rod holders for my garage. I want to screw them to the ceiling.

I knew a girl like that once . . . Marc, who luckily got older and wiser Seriously, depends on what kind of rods.  If it’s surf rods I’ll second the PVC suggestion.  Fly rods I’d just buy a contraption which hangs from the rafters and holds the rods horizontally.  Wouldn’t waste the time trying to build something like that.

Response:

Question:

And Maclean’s book is a masterpiece. wulfie, if you think "guns of navarone" is a masterpiece, yer crazier than george.

Well, you should see the MOVIE!! Wolfgang whoo boy!  some people don’t know no more about amurrican literature than a english cooke

Response:

And Maclean’s book is a masterpiece. wulfie, if you think "guns of navarone" is a masterpiece, yer crazier than george. Well, you should see the MOVIE!!

That’s who mentioned you.  Perhaps you should give Wayne a ration of crap.. . . ..Wolfie, got any sleep lately? — Warren Findley Yellowstone Clave info at: www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

It IS a good movie though.  And Maclean’s book is a masterpiece. Ever read it? did, think so.

No.  You posted a 3 line reply and asked one question in those three lines which I answered.  You never mentioned anything about what I did, did not do or even mentioned anything I said to the guy who is not a newbie (check google.  I know I have seen that name around here before).  Why would I be pissed at anything you did.  You said it was a good movie, agreed.  You said the book was very good, agreed.  You asked if I had read the book and I had.  What would make me angry about that?  Nothing. O.K. then did I do or say anything that suggested I give a fuck whether or not you go ballistic over nothing in is speculation about who stepped on your dick lately.

Did I get mad at you?  Show me where I said "Wolfgang, you have done me wrong!"  Quit chasing windmills Wolfie, you are *crazy* enough without proving it and we love it! <g guess we won’t go into that.

Well, seeing as how you butted into something that didn’t involve you, never even addressed you, never were asked an opinion…well, you can guess who you remind me of. .. . . got anything you wanna sell?

GRAPHITE tomato stakes!  $5 + S&H! — Warren Findley Yellowstone Clave info at: www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

Warren would have us believe: If it wasn’t for the clave I probably would have posted something like: "I really don’t give a flying rat’s ass if some dipshit yuppie pond scum has "discovered" it and is living his life by it.  As far as I am concerned, he can lick my ass in search of brown trout.  I have a great book from Gierach, should I post it here?  There is a section of about 30 pages that would do well around here, you ready for it? Screw that shit.  Hey Yuppie, sucka la cock beyotch."

About an hour or two at one of my fishing holes and the mosquitoes will have sucked all the yuppie-jeep-cherokee-driver-posting-10k-worth-of other-peoples-books-magic-crystal-anemic-droopy-drawers-sentimentality right out of him. The Old Crow and the Pall Malls should do the rest… — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

When was I mad at you? Wolfgang you can be mad at me wulfie if it makes ya feel any better….

O.K. thanks.  Um……mind if I take a raincheck on that though?  Right now I am so furious with…….um…….well, somebody or other, that I can spare the anger.  Some time around the end of May suit you? waldo ps: bring white wine to porkies…. gallons <g

boat.  How ’bout it John, do we wanna see Opie waltzin with bears? Wolfgang

Response:

When was I mad at you? Wolfgang you can be mad at me wulfie if it makes ya feel any better…. O.K. thanks.  Um……mind if I take a raincheck on that though?  Right now I am so furious with…….um…….well, somebody or other, that I can spare the anger.  Some time around the end of May suit you?

lessee here… may, may, end of may…. uhmm, you’ll probably need to get in line at that time…. yup, that is right after the PA clave… after i catch ‘dem big ole’ browns, jeffie and tom will be in line ahead of ya. <g -ww

Response:

Well, I’ve been looking at that sentence for five minutes Wayne was the one that mentioned you in the thread, not me.

That reads a lot like the one that had me stumped last night.  Today, after a good night’s sleep, it has exactly the same effect as t’other. Perhaps you should give Wayne a ration of crap.. . . .. For what? I don’t know.

Ah yes, that helps a lot. Why were you mad at me when I never even mentioned you or did anything to you?

When was I mad at you? Wolfgang

Response:

When was I mad at you? Wolfgang

you can be mad at me wulfie if it makes ya feel any better…. waldo ps: bring white wine to porkies…. gallons <g

Response:

Well, I’ve been looking at that sentence for five minutes

Wayne was the one that mentioned you in the thread, not me. Perhaps you should give Wayne a ration of crap.. . . .. For what?

I don’t know.  Why were you mad at me when I never even mentioned you or did anything to you? Wolfie, got any sleep lately? Yep.  I make a point of it.

Good!  I have been making a point of it too lately — Warren Findley Yellowstone Clave info at: www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And Maclean’s book is a masterpiece. wulfie, if you think "guns of navarone" is a masterpiece, yer crazier than george. Well, you should see the MOVIE!! That’s who mentioned you.

Well, I’ve been looking at that sentence for five minutes Perhaps you should give Wayne a ration of crap.. . . ..

For what? Wolfie, got any sleep lately?

Yep.  I make a point of it. Wolfgang

Response:

Norman Maclean Photo Gallery http://www.baylor.edu/~Julia_Lunsford/imagelink.html A River Runs Through It Trivia http://montanakids.com/db_engine/presentations/presentation.asp?pid=247

Response:

Who cares?!?!?!  WTF is up with "the movie" shit?!?!  Lemme guess, you are another yuppie that took up fly fishing because of "the movie" right?

Norman Maclean Photo Gallery http://www.baylor.edu/~Julia_Lunsford/imagelink.html A River Runs Through It Trivia

http://montanakids.com/db_engine/presentations/presentation.asp?pid=24 7 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Who cares?!?!?!  WTF is up with "the movie" shit?!?!  Lemme guess, you are another yuppie that took up fly fishing because of "the movie" right?

It IS a good movie though.  And Maclean’s book is a masterpiece.  Ever read it? Wolfgang

Response:

And Maclean’s book is a masterpiece.

wulfie, if you think "guns of navarone" is a masterpiece, yer crazier than george. –waldo

Response:

It IS a good movie though.  And Maclean’s book is a masterpiece. Ever read it?

I have seen the movie several times and read the book.  So? If I weren’t a second hand clavemeister, I probably would have posted something along the lines of what Wayne did.  If it wasn’t for the clave I probably would have posted something like: "I really don’t give a flying rat’s ass if some dipshit yuppie pond scum has "discovered" it and is living his life by it.  As far as I am concerned, he can lick my ass in search of brown trout.  I have a great book from Gierach, should I post it here?  There is a section of about 30 pages that would do well around here, you ready for it? Screw that shit.  Hey Yuppie, sucka la cock beyotch." NOTE: The above was a dramatization and cannot reflect on either me nor the Yellowstone Clave.  <insert touchy feely crap here — Warren Findley Yellowstone Clave info at: www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It IS a good movie though.  And Maclean’s book is a masterpiece. Ever read it? I have seen the movie several times and read the book.  So? If I weren’t a second hand clavemeister, I probably would have posted something along the lines of what Wayne did.  If it wasn’t for the clave I probably would have posted something like: "I really don’t give a flying rat’s ass if some dipshit yuppie pond scum has "discovered" it and is living his life by it.  As far as I am concerned, he can lick my ass in search of brown trout.  I have a great book from Gierach, should I post it here?  There is a section of about 30 pages that would do well around here, you ready for it? Screw that shit.  Hey Yuppie, sucka la cock beyotch." NOTE: The above was a dramatization and cannot reflect on either me nor the Yellowstone Clave.  <insert touchy feely crap here

so.  O.K. then did I do or say anything that suggested I give a fuck whether or not you go ballistic over nothing in speculation about who stepped on your dick lately. we won’t go into that. Wolfgang got anything you wanna sell?

Response:

Question:

Reality Sucks I say she’s seeking guidance from an experienced fly fisher/computer scientist, and deserves your best efforts. Dave

Response:

Reality Sucks I say she’s seeking guidance from an experienced fly fisher/computer scientist, and deserves your best efforts. Dave

Yep, that’s my take, too, although I think the help she needs in more in the flyfishing area than the computer area. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

There’s a difference. I believe rw. I don’t believe that 9 lb brookies exist. Well maybe in Labrador.

Funny thing you should mention that Mike.  Last Sunday’s Milwaukee Journal Sentinel had a short article on the new Wisconsin state record brook trout.  I don’t recall exactly what it weighed but I believe it was just over ten pounds.  It was caught out of Lake Michigan, I believe, by a guy who had been fishing the big water for several years.  It was his first legal brookie!!  By the way, the old record, set some time in the forties was over nine pounds and came out of the Prairie river up in the north central part of the state.

Response:

Hey Wulff, I don’t get it.  I thought you moved to Idaho to get away from it all. You’re telling us that there is a stocked pond 15 minutes from your cabin?

  A lot of the high mountain lakes in Idaho and Montana, lakes that take four-five hour hikes to get to, in Idaho are chocked full of twelve inch stockers.  They dump the fish in by airplane. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Dear All, I’ve been fishing for quite some time, tho i’d never tried fly fishing.  Well, on Monday I turned 29, and a few friends got together and got me a started kit for fly-fishng.  I watched the video that came with the kit (hey – you have to start somewhere…) and have a few questions. 1. Backing – how much & why bother?  I can’t figure out what this stuff is for – I have a forward tapered line, 30 yrds long.  How much backing do I use? 2. What is the difference between the tippet and the leader? 3.  Can anyone suggest a good book or website for help on starting out.  I realize I am going to have to take lessons one way or another, but if I could get myself started, I really like to have a go.  I live about a five minute walk from a river, so I figure I try this out fairly easily.  I don’t expect to catch much, but this looks like a whole lot of fun. 4.  Can anyone suggest any good beginner rivers near Ottawa, Ontario and some flies to go with the river?   I wouldn’t mind learning how to catch trout or bass (the rod is 6/7 weight)… is the former possible near Ottawa? 5.  Any suggestions for a fly fishing store in Ottawa?  I use the LeBaron’s & the Cdn Tire for most of my fishing stuff, but I am not sure if they will be adequate for fly-fishing. thanks for any advice you can give…  I am really looking forward to trying this out! Alastair Mullin

Response:

You will receive some very useful information here on many of these question and I will attempt to start: Dear All, I’ve been fishing for quite some time, tho i’d never tried fly fishing.  Well, on Monday I turned 29, and a few friends got together and got me a started kit for fly-fishng.  I watched the video that came with the kit (hey – you have to start somewhere…) and have a few questions. 1. Backing – how much & why bother?  I can’t figure out what this stuff is for – I have a forward tapered line, 30 yrds long.  How much backing do I use?

The backing has two purposes 1) add diameter to the spool(1:1 retrieve is preety slow) and to add length when you get into the big fish.  You should use enough backing so that with the backing and the fly line, you are with 1/8th to 1/4 of and inch of filling the spool. 2. What is the difference between the tippet and the leader? 3.  Can anyone suggest a good book or website for help on starting out.  I realize I am going to have to take lessons one way or another, but if I could get myself started, I really like to have a go.  I live about a five minute walk from a river, so I figure I try this out fairly easily.  I don’t expect to catch much, but this looks like a whole lot of fun.

Email me and I will send you a very long list of fly fishing sites.  One I frequent is http://www.flyanglersonline.com/ 4.  Can anyone suggest any good beginner rivers near Ottawa, Ontario and some flies to go with the river?   I wouldn’t mind learning how to catch trout or bass (the rod is 6/7 weight)… is the former possible near Ottawa?

The Ottawa river and Rideau rivers both hold bass and other warm water species and there are spots on the Ottawa that hold trout. 5.  Any suggestions for a fly fishing store in Ottawa?  I use the LeBaron’s & the Cdn Tire for most of my fishing stuff, but I am not sure if they will be adequate for fly-fishing.

fart .. oops .. extinguished gentleman that runs the place is very knowledgable and has course covering all aspect of fly fishing, from insect life cycles to tying flies. thanks for any advice you can give…  I am really looking forward to trying this out! Alastair Mullin

Chris Richer

Response:

Choose one: 1.   Lying 2.   Stupid 3.   Gay 4.   Computer Scientist  <g

  5.    Married with two kids. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

 5.    Married with two kids.

Me too.   Wonder why that didn’t occur to me?   As Roseann Rosannadanna said, "never mind." Your story reminded me of a greeting card I once found.   On the front was a photo of an extraordinarily beautiful girl – perfect skin, perfect hair, perfect makeup, nice figure, etc.    On the inside it simply said, "You’re old enough to be her father.   Happy Birthday."   Nothing like an occasional reality check. Joe F.

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over, Whew ! And did I tell you about the time I caught a 9 lb brookie on a #26 parachute adams.

There’s a difference. I believe rw. I don’t believe that 9 lb brookies exist. Well maybe in Labrador. I would believe the fly. An unginked Parachute Adams is pretty durned miraculous, although I’ve never bought one smaller than #18 —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBN3vWqMkBcsCVVLK5AQEphAP+NRC/76qrfjaiOP7l/mNUTqEEjMVHMGnx sGTYeseyqkT2C0XEeqXtB63/2CCfWmgr9/Yj/FhMTzweH/yjWDctRZwjUDukPee9 x2ZsHfYFI3c4f6QFz0F5+j2LUIqmRrfi3+M3CXkXOkebayhONMCCqNi+rZttLlns Y1Qc50XQptg= =yx4a —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– Mike S. Medintz, B.S. | http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz "Living with a dog is easy-like living with an idealist  is easy." -H.L. Mencken

Response:

Ken Fortenberry: <<Whew ! And did I tell you about the time I caught a 9 lb brookie on a #26 parachute adams. Was that the one in Panama, Ken?  I think I remember it! Dave LaCourse

Response:

When I got home today from Challis there was a message from her on my machine. She wants to go fishing. I’m old enough to be this girl’s father, so I’m not hitting on her,

        in which case, i say to you in the depth of seriousness, you need psychological help.  i have observed your posts for several months, and i am certain that the words we see above are a sham, pure drivel, meant to decieve the foolish amongst us.         go for it, man.  hell, if you saw jo lacourse, you would realize that *nothing* is impossible! wayno.

Response:

[snipped]    go for it, man.  hell, if you saw jo lacourse, you would realize that *nothing* is impossible!

Boy, ain’t that the truth ;^) /daytripper (still amazed)

Response:

While the Fish & Game guy was cleaning my fish this drop-dead gorgeous babe walks up to me. She’s wearing waders and has a big Malemute dog. She’s a dead ringer for Janine Turner, who played Maggie in the TV show Northern Exposure. She says, "Are you the computer scientist?" Jesus H. Christ, what’s going on here?!

I don’t know what’s going on; but if beautiful women are seeking out computer scientists, there may be hope for us engineers, too. I’m not hitting on her.

Choose one: 1.   Lying 2.   Stupid 3.   Gay 4.   Computer Scientist  <g Joe F. btw: notice how everyone ignored the fishing part of that story?

Response:

Ken Fortenberry: <<Whew ! And did I tell you about the time I caught a 9 lb brookie on a #26 parachute adams. Was that the one in Panama, Ken?  I think I remember it!

Why yes, yes it was. I’m surprised you remember anything about that trip, if it wasn’t for those silly bottles I’d have never got you back into the jungle to witness my brookie extravaganza. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

When I got home today from Challis there was a message from her on my machine. She wants to go fishing. I’m old enough to be this girl’s father, so I’m not hitting on her,         in which case, i say to you in the depth of seriousness, you need psychological help.  i have observed your posts for several months, and i am certain that the words we see above are a sham, pure drivel, meant to decieve the foolish amongst us.

Well, Wayno, I’ll admit that I’m conflicted about it. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I pigged out on trout today. I’m so full I could hardly get myself to the computer. My dog pigged out on trout, too. Anyone want to make something of it. Seriously, these were stocker rainbows in a pond where they won’t survive the winter. If I don’t kill them Old Man Frost or the bait fishermen will. I can get my limit of 12" fish there any time I want, and it’s only 15 minutes from my cabin, along a beautiful dirt road where I regularly see elk and sandhill cranes. When I get blanked on real (i.e., wild) fish I go there. While I was landing a fish a hungry-looking osprey was circling my float tube. If that sucker can’t catch his own fish in this spot I have no sympathy for him. Life is good. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Hey Wulff, I don’t get it.  I thought you moved to Idaho to get away from it all. You’re telling us that there is a stocked pond 15 minutes from your cabin? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seriously, these were stocker rainbows in a pond where they won’t survive the winter. If I don’t kill them Old Man Frost or the bait fishermen will. I can get my limit of 12" fish there any time I want, and it’s only 15 minutes from my cabin, along a beautiful dirt road where I regularly see elk and sandhill cranes. When I get blanked on real (i.e., wild) fish I go there.

Response:

Hey Wulff, I don’t get it.  I thought you moved to Idaho to get away from it all. You’re telling us that there is a stocked pond 15 minutes from your cabin?

More than one. The Sawtooth Hatchery is just a couple of miles down the road. It’s main purpose is to keep the steelhead and salmon going, but they also stock some lakes and the Main Fork of the Salmon heavily to keep the tourists happy. There’s plenty of fishing for wild trout here, but that’s nearly all C&R and I like to eat fish sometimes. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

rw, I experienced the stocking program at Stanlee Idaho while vacationing there. I had been fishing without much success when some ladies returned with several large trout that were obviously from a hatchery and started telling me it was easy to catch trout.  In fact if I would go to this small stream by the road I could practically catch them by hand.  The fishing was so easy they couldn’t understand why I didn’t have a lot of fish and I wouldn’t need the waders or any thing because I could just jump across the stream. Needless to say I didn’t try to tell any fishing stories that day. Ernie Harrison Like to make fly-fishing stuff?  See: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Sawtooth Hatchery is just a couple of miles down the road. It’s main purpose is to keep the steelhead and salmon going, but they also stock some lakes and the Main Fork of the Salmon heavily to keep the tourists happy.

Response:

rw, I experienced the stocking program at Stanlee Idaho while vacationing there. I had been fishing without much success when some ladies returned with several large trout that were obviously from a hatchery and started telling me it was easy to catch trout.  In fact if I would go to this small stream by the road I could practically catch them by hand.  The fishing was so easy they couldn’t understand why I didn’t have a lot of fish and I wouldn’t need the waders or any thing because I could just jump across the stream. Needless to say I didn’t try to tell any fishing stories that day.

It’s just amazing how heavily they stock some of these places. I had to go to Challis today, about 60 miles away, and on the way back I stopped at Squaw Creek Pond. This is about a 1/2 acre holding pond for young steelhead. It has literally thousands of fish in it. I must have caught 40 or 50 fish in an hour and a half, keeping six that were hooked so badly I thought they wouldn’t make it. This may not be the most aesthetic fishing experience in the world, but I like knowing I can catch my dinner whenever I feel like it, courtesy of Idaho Fish & Game. A couple of weeks ago I was fishing one of these stocked ponds — a real pretty one. As I was walking out of the water with my standard six fish an Idaho Fish & Game guy introduced himself. As I was fumbling around in my vest for my license he just asked me if he could clean my fish! He wanted the stomachs to find out what they were eating. While the Fish & Game guy was cleaning my fish this drop-dead gorgeous babe walks up to me. She’s wearing waders and has a big Malemute dog. She’s a dead ringer for Janine Turner, who played Maggie in the TV show Northern Exposure. She says, "Are you the computer scientist?" Jesus H. Christ, what’s going on here?! It turns out the proprietor of the local fly shop, whom I know well, told her I was up there. Thanks, Larry! So we chat for awhile, I look over her fly boxes, pretending to be expert (these fish will hit about anything), and then give her a fly that I know for sure is a super killer in this pond. My fish are finally cleaned (the guy took forever), so I collect the fish, give her my phone number, and split. When I got home today from Challis there was a message from her on my machine. She wants to go fishing. I’m old enough to be this girl’s father, so I’m not hitting on her, but I love being around beautiful women. I’m telling you guys, this place is sportsman friendly. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

<snip … this drop-dead gorgeous babe walks up to me. … … so I’m not hitting on her, but I love being around beautiful women. <rest of tall tale snipped

Whew ! And did I tell you about the time I caught a 9 lb brookie on a #26 parachute adams. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

<snip … this drop-dead gorgeous babe walks up to me. … … so I’m not hitting on her, but I love being around beautiful women. <rest of tall tale snipped Whew ! And did I tell you about the time I caught a 9 lb brookie on a #26 parachute adams.

This ain’t no fish tale, Ken. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

This ain’t no fish tale, Ken.

I believed every single word til I got to the "I’m not hittin’ on her" part. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

This ain’t no fish tale, Ken. I believed every single word til I got to the "I’m not hittin’ on her" part.

Yeah, that is a little tough to swallow. Maybe I’ll try a very delicate downstream approach, with a 14′ 7x leader. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Question:

  I’ve been fishing in the Florida Keys.  There is a boat called "Main Attraction" in Marathon.  Capt. Morris is the owner/operator.  Have always had good luck fishing with him.  Good guy and productive fisherman.

Response:

Strike Zone Charters in Big Pine Key is the only one I go with.  305-872-9863

Response:

I have a listing of guides for Monroe County/the Keys that have web pages. The list is at < http://inshore.com/f-guides.html#Monroe . You might want to visit a few of the sites for more information on trips, rates, etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I’m looking for a game fishing charter in the Florida Keys. Has anybody got any recomendations ?? Cheers Justin

Response:

Hi I’m looking for a game fishing charter in the Florida Keys. Has anybody got any recomendations ?? Cheers Justin

Response:

Hiya Justin, Check out www.met-fl.org This site has a page of links to guides in the Keys and around S. Fla. These guides are some, but not all of the best guides. Most on the list have or guided people who have IGFA records. Good luck, let us know when and how you do. Do you know Stu Cawker"Capt. Asparagus" Hi I’m looking for a game fishing charter in the Florida Keys. Has anybody got any recomendations ?? Cheers Justin

– Bragging may not bring happiness, but no man having caught a large fish, goes home through the alley. Anonymous http://fish-n-net.com/

Response:

Question:

I normally would not get involved in this type of discussion but I would like to add that Dan used the words "in his opinion" which he has a right to state.  There are many who have a different opinion.  Being curious I got out my Fly Casting With Lefty Kreh  and looked at the pictures of Lefty casting.  He is using a down locking reel seat and his hand is half way off the grip and against the reel.  Of course Lefty is definitely not an orthodox caster, but if it is good enough for him it is good enough for me. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Keep up the good work,  Thos. I second that. Tom Hackmann. I agree also. Jason Schwartz .Well, it’s agreed then. The "ayes" have it. Dan can stay. We’re such a congenial group aren’t we? Dennis Loveland, CO

Response:

OOOOOHHHHHHH!!!!!! Me 2 Dan! Larry #:)#

Response:

We’re such a congenial group aren’t we?

Well, no. But this sure is one heck of a love-fest you’re all having, ain’t it? ;^) /dave (hang in there Dan. this’ll all be over in another day or two)

Response:

I am compelled to also respond….. Thanks for being part of this Group!!

Response:

I must admit that I would have made some dumb (and expensive) equipment decisions without his advice!  I really appreciate it. Jay Kidwell, Ph.D. (Psychology) Instinctive Archery Insights http://w3.goodnews.net/~jkidwell/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<<: Well, no. But this sure is one heck of a love-fest you’re all having, ain’t : it? ;^) Maybe so… but I still hate that investigator guy. Dan is an Atlantic Salmon. The "investigator guy" is a sucker. Dave LaCourse

Response:

: We’re such a congenial group aren’t we? : Well, no. But this sure is one heck of a love-fest you’re all having, ain’t : it? ;^) Maybe so… but I still hate that investigator guy. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

<<: Well, no. But this sure is one heck of a love-fest you’re all having, ain’t : it? ;^) Maybe so… but I still hate that investigator guy. Dan is an Atlantic Salmon. The "investigator guy" is a sucker. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Hi all, I’m moving to Vermont and have to pack up my computer today.  I will be offline until the first week of August.  So, if you send me e-mail or ask questions of me and I don’t answer, I’m not ignoring you, I’m just "in transit".  Talk to you again when I get there.                         Good fishing,                               Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi all, I’m moving to Vermont and have to pack up my computer today.  I will be offline until the first week of August.  So, if you send me e-mail or ask questions of me and I don’t answer, I’m not ignoring you, I’m just "in transit".  Talk to you again when I get there.                        Good fishing,                              Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish

No, no! don’t go off line Dan… who can we all adore now? Seriously, good luck with the move, hope it goes smoothly.   Hurry back. — Stuart Nuttall (Replace ‘nospam’ with ‘warboyz’ to reply by e-mail)

Response:

<<No, no! don’t go off line Dan… who can we all adore now? There’s always George. d;0)

Response:

I am compelled to also respond….. Thanks for being part of this Group!!

        yep, i’ll have to say that every newsgroup needs at least one d. gracia, or a bill kleine, to balance the relentless efforts of louts like chaz and me.         a. wayne harrison

Response:

   yep, i’ll have to say that every newsgroup needs at least one d. gracia, or a bill kleine, to balance the relentless efforts of louts like chaz and me.

…and let’s not forget Timbo! As if we could :^) Dennis Loveland, CO

Response:

What a sappy freekin’ thread…jeezus…virtual male bonding for christ’s sake… Have a good move Dan-o…. — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

Response:

      yep, i’ll have to say that every newsgroup needs at least one d. gracia, or a bill kleine, to balance the relentless efforts of louts like chaz and me.       a. wayne harrison

Well said Wayne, a very gracious comment, don’t forget Mr. Walker – he who calls the NG to heel over important conservation matters. — Bill

Response:

Some posters have been complaining that you contribute nothing but thinly veiled spam to this group.  I vehemently disagree.  I find your advice is sound and apropos.  I believe that most roffers understand that you (like everyone else) have a particular perspective and even a few biases.  I also believe that most roffers admire the balance you bring to your posts; you do not insist that the universe revolves around Mt. Shasta, and you are quick to admit the virtues of non Orvis equipment. Keep up the good work, Thos.

Response:

Some posters have been complaining that you contribute nothing but thinly veiled spam to this group.  I vehemently disagree.  I find your advice is sound and apropos.  I believe that most roffers understand that you (like everyone else) have a particular perspective and even a few biases.  I also believe that most roffers admire the balance you bring to your posts; you do not insist that the universe revolves around Mt. Shasta, and you are quick to admit the virtues of non Orvis equipment. Keep up the good work, Thos.

I second that. Tom Hackmann.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some posters have been complaining that you contribute nothing but thinly veiled spam to this group.  I vehemently disagree.  I find your advice is sound and apropos.  I believe that most roffers understand that you (like everyone else) have a particular perspective and even a few biases.  I also believe that most roffers admire the balance you bring to your posts; you do not insist that the universe revolves around Mt. Shasta, and you are quick to admit the virtues of non Orvis equipment. Keep up the good work, Thos. I second that. Tom Hackmann.

I agree also. Jason Schwartz

Response:

Keep up the good work,  Thos. I second that. Tom Hackmann. I agree also. Jason Schwartz .Well, it’s agreed then. The "ayes" have it. Dan can stay.

We’re such a congenial group aren’t we? Dennis Loveland, CO

Response:

Dan makes every effort to avoid spamming. He consistently gives sensible advice in response to not-so-sensible questions. -Doug Easton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some posters have been complaining that you contribute nothing but thinly veiled spam to this group.  I vehemently disagree.  I find your advice is sound and apropos.  I believe that most roffers understand that you (like everyone else) have a particular perspective and even a few biases.  I also believe that most roffers admire the balance you bring to your posts; you do not insist that the universe revolves around Mt. Shasta, and you are quick to admit the virtues of non Orvis equipment. Keep up the good work, Thos. I second that. Tom Hackmann.

Response:

Question:

Hi Group– Well there’s now a pro and a con posted re: clipping hackle.  As a beginner in both tying them and fishing them, I’d like to see more on this subject from more experienced fishers–what does Issac Walton think about it?  Not being able to justify 50 bucks "for a bunch of feathers" to my dubious spouse, I don’t have many Metz primo capes, so I’m always snipping away at my creations.  (The height of my success as a tyer so far came when she swatted a fly I had in my vice–I call it a size 14 Blue-Green Bent Hook Flathead Roadkill). Anyway, should I add clipped hackle to my list of tying blunders?

Response:

Yes, it is kind of a hassle to tie both wieghted and unweighted flies and keep them separated in your fly boxes.  Using both has allowed me to catch fish when the traditional nymph patterns would not produce.

No hassle of they are colour-coded by tying thread.  My weighted nymphs are all tied with red thread, easy to see;  if I were a closer imitationist I could choose between black, tan and olive. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

No hassle of they are colour-coded by tying thread.  My weighted nymphs are all tied with red thread, easy to see;  if I were a closer imitationist I could choose between black, tan and olive. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Don, I do the same color coding with one small difference. I lead all my hooks first and use the color coded thread which I wrap down the bend of the hook a little. So, when I look in the flybox all I have to do is look under their little tails to see how I weighted them…   I know someone will come up with a good joke about looking under their tails (:^ Frank

Response:

Don, I do the same color coding with one small difference. I lead all my hooks first and use the color coded thread which I wrap down the bend of the hook a little. So, when I look in the flybox all I have to do is look under their little tails to see how I weighted them… I know someone will come up with a good joke about looking under their tails (:^ Frank

Oh, I get it, Frank.  Sort of a variation on a lead-ass!  My father used to always call me that.  Now I know what he was talking about– the color of my underpants, which must have stuck out above my pants.  :^) (Sorry, best I could do under pressure.) :^( Charley

Response:

        For slow to medium water, I’ve clipped a ^ into the bottom of the hackle for years. When I’m doing so, I deliberately use a hackle which is too long so that when trimmed will be the proper length.         The benefits of doing this are twofold. It sits very well on the water and has a terrific footprint on the water. A mayfly at rest on the water has long legs out to the side – not underneath it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well there’s now a pro and a con posted re: clipping hackle. When I started tying we had only Chinese and Idia necks.  We would have killed for a Metz #3 rooster neck.  Today they are around $30 and some shops split them in half or you might split one with a buddy. If you keep it away from bugs or you house pets they usually work to be a good long term investment with dries around $1.75 per each.  The most popular color is natural brown and then Grizzly.  Get some Pantone pens for coloring your Grizzly or Creme hackle in a pinch.  I haven’t clipped any hackle before, at least not on purpose, but I done think it would sit up like the natural ends.  Bill Kiene  Kiene’s Fly Shop  Sacramento, Ca.

Response:

Well there’s now a pro and a con posted re: clipping hackle.

When I started tying we had only Chinese and Idia necks.  We would have killed for a Metz #3 rooster neck.  Today they are around $30 and some shops split them in half or you might split one with a buddy. If you keep it away from bugs or you house pets they usually work to be a good long term investment with dries around $1.75 per each.  The most popular color is natural brown and then Grizzly.  Get some Pantone pens for coloring your Grizzly or Creme hackle in a pinch.  I haven’t clipped any hackle before, at least not on purpose, but I done think it would sit up like the natural ends.  Bill Kiene  Kiene’s Fly Shop  Sacramento, Ca.

Response:

Well can anyone out there give me a rule of thumb for weighting nymphs? My method in the past has been to first not weight the nymph itself so that it tumbled in the water more naturally.  I added weight (lead shot) about 8 inches up the tipet until JUST before my indicator would studder as the weight and nymph would drag the bottom.  I have always caught fish that way.  So I am fishing with this rookie who fished his nymph with no weight under an indicator.  I thought his nymph would never get anywhere near the bottom.  He started hooking fish and I was dry, both of us using the same PTs I had tied!.  Should I rething my nymphing strategy?  Can a nymph  act and be fished as an emerger with no modifications?  I’m thinking that these fish were wanting emergers and that my method for weighting is still very sound.  Opinions appreciated.  And please!  "No sticking to dry flys" cracks.

My experience in nymphing is that you should be prepared to offer both weighted and unweighted nymphs to actively feeding fish.  There are occasions when fish key on rising/hatching nymphs,  and virtually ignore bottom dwelling creatures even though they are plentiful. I try to tie my nymph flies to cover the full life cycle of the insect.  Something as simple as adding an emerging wing to a nymph can dramatically increase the effectiveness of a particular fly when nymphs are in transitional stage. As a rule of thumb for small nymphs (#14-#22) I add only enough weight to sink the fly a few inches.  I can always add or remove split shot to achieve the desired sink rate. Yes, it is kind of a hassle to tie both wieghted and unweighted flies and keep them separated in your fly boxes.  Using both has allowed me to catch fish when the traditional nymph patterns would not produce. I hope this helps. Bryan Bonds White River Anglers htttp://www.ipa.net/~bbonds Fayetteville, Ar

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:  (The height of my success as a tyer : so far came when she swatted a fly I had in my vice–I call it a size : 14 Blue-Green Bent Hook Flathead Roadkill).   Congratulations, Lee! Not often that the average joe can come up with a new pattern! You may want to publish it.  ;-  Anyway, should I add clipped hackle to my list of tying blunders?  My opinion, yes. It changes the appearnce of the fly. The fine tips of a natural feather make a difference in the silhoette and the floatabily. You may want to consider cheaper necks for now. The expensive one _are_ cheaper in the long run. More feathers per buck and fewer "bad" feathers per neck. The price is high to start though. Jon Porter

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Well can anyone out there give me a rule of thumb for weighting nymphs? My method in the past has been to first not weight the nymph itself so that it tumbled in the water more naturally.  I added weight (lead shot) about 8 inches up the tipet until JUST before my indicator would studder as the weight and nymph would drag the bottom.  I have always caught fish

[deleted] personally, i do not use my indicators like bobbers, constantly adjusting the weight until the perfect balance is acheived.  i much prefer using 3 to 5 tiny blobs of flourescent plastic indicator material (the sheet peel off types, not the big honking round versions of these…), Cortlands cut in 1/4ths or 1/6ths.  One right at the butt section/line connection and then spaced at 6-10 inch intervals.  this allows me to gauge… 1) depth of bug 2) directionality of leader 3) speed of drift 4) directionality of drift So you add some shot to get down and drown one or two of the indicators, so what …you can still see them under the water and see what attitude your your line is in relative to all the other variables. When you see a trout charge one of your sunken blobs of indicator you can switch to some kind of emerger and sagely pretend that you figured it out. Good fishing, Tim Walker

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Question:

My girlfriend has asked me to teach her how to flyfish.  I’ve been an avid flyfisherman for three years now.  I feel I’m good enough to tie knots in the air with the best of them . A few questions: 1. I don’t want to spend a lot of money for a rod/reel that she may lose interest in so I’m going to get something that I can use in the future (if necessary).  Any opinions on the prepackaged everything-you-need-to-start-NOW rod/reel/line combos?  I’ve seen some ranging from $30 to $200. Quality is an issue. 2. She asked if being left-handed would make a difference.  It had never occurred to me that I routinely cast with either hand, depending on the situation (ie, how many flies I’ve lost in the tree to my right-rear).  Retrieving is always done with rod in right/reeling with left.  Just curious if any left-handers have had any problems learning or buying equipment. 3. Women’s waders: I haven’t been able to find any in stores around here (Grand Rapids, MI).  Any experiences with mail ordering women’s waders (good or bad) would be helpful.  She will use the waders irregardless of fishing since she’s into fisheries biology.  Looking for good 4mm or 5mm neoprene. I read the thread from a few months ago about teaching the Significant Other how to flyfish. Interesting advice that will be taken to heart. Thanks in advance. Tight lines, Brian Austin

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My girlfriend has asked me to teach her how to flyfish.  I’ve been an avid flyfisherman for three years now.  I feel I’m good enough to tie knots in the air with the best of them . (snip) 2. She asked if being left-handed would make a difference.  It had never occurred to me that I routinely cast with either hand, depending on the situation (ie, how many flies I’ve lost in the tree to my right-rear).  Retrieving is always done with rod in right/reeling with left.  Just curious if any left-handers have had any problems learning or buying equipment. Tight lines, Brian Austin

In terms of _learning_ to cast, my advice would be to stand in front of your girlfriend and have her "mirror" what you’re doing to get the timing, or stand to her left so she can see what you’re doing.  Or, get a copy of Ed Jaworowski’s book on casting (the best ever, IMHO). Enjoy! Doug Stewart

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Brain. I suggest you bring her to my small ranch in Montana. Hawley Mountain Ranch max guests 24 is in the Absaroka Wilderness 25 miles north of Yellowstone Park. You can fish the Boulder River, horse back ride, hike or just read a book. This summer I caught so many fish that—ok I also hurt my right arm moving rocks–my right arm hurt so I had to learn to teach fly fishing with my left. So now when I go to the stream either arm works.  As far as teaching your girlfriend to fish , I taught my first wife to drive. Will enought said on that point. I did teach Ellen new wife of 10yr. how to fish when she was a girlfriend. First time on the stream she caught and released 6 before I got a fly on— so be careful!!!  Enjoy her and the outdoors thats what life is about.                       Your Montana Friend!!!                          Bryant Blewett BBlewett

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Question:

   Does anyone have any experience fly fishing for Coho salmon in streams feeding Lake Ontario? I’m looking for info on what flies to try…maybe what streams have been productive (From the Ganaraska eastward)

Fly pattern matters much less than being able (1) to locate a fish and then (2) present fly on the fish’s own level, usually at bottom.  While cruising in rivermouth lagoons they will aggressively hit any stramer: when resting on bottom, you will probably need lead to get deep enough. But locating fish remains #1 (take Polaroids and avoid disturbed water.) For flies, you need only a streamer made with genuine Polar Bear (e.g. Parma belle.), a big nymph e.g. Hexagenia, and an egg fly (or pompon.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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   Does anyone have any experience fly fishing for Coho salmon in streams feeding Lake Ontario? I’m looking for info on what flies to try…maybe what streams have been productive (From the Ganaraska eastward) Thanks in advance. ttyl

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Question:

Just bought a copy of Farrow Allen-Dick Stewart’s  book, Trout flies. It’s far and away obove the ORVIS book I’ve been using! Can’t get better pictures and descriptions…worth all of the 55$ Canadian I paid. Think of it. That’s only about 39.95$ US….. and what the hell has happened to our $. It’s no wonder we’re getting poorer. You USA residents cannot get a better vacation deal than coming to Canada. It’s a bargain when you use  US dollars! Not just the fishing but the meals, hotels etcetera. Hell, I went to Scotland this year and paid the equivalent of 150$US for a bed and breakfast! Nice, mind you but very pricey by comparison. No doubt in my mind, the best deals anywhere in the world are right here in North America and in particular.. Canada!

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Sounds pretty good!  How do I get a copy, I can’t find it in my local fly-fishing shop?

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