Question:

Hokay, so which product is best? Most versatile? Best for planning? Annotating? Printing? I need to choose one of these. What’re the best determinants of the choice? – Scott

Response:

Hi Scott, First you need to ask yourself about coverage. Do either of these products cover all the areas you’d potentially want to map?  How many CDs will you need to buy to cover all the places you’d want to go? , Doug www.travelbygps.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hokay, so which product is best? Most versatile? Best for planning? Annotating? Printing? I need to choose one of these. What’re the best determinants of the choice? – Scott

Response:

Hokay, so which product is best? Most versatile? Best for planning? Annotating? Printing? I need to choose one of these. What’re the best determinants of the choice? – Scott

For me, it’s Maptech all the way. Even though you have to buy more CDs to cover an area, you’ll never have to buy another topo map. You can print sections, thumbnails, add notes, trails, waypoints, etc. (And you can include some or all extras in any given view while keeping them all in the file for convenience.) Yours in the north Maine woods, Pete Hilton aka The Ent — You can’t guard against the arbitrary.    anon.

Response:

Well, coverage isn’t an issue. They can both cover Washington state, and I’m looking at North Cascades. While I can’t say price isn’t an issue, my main concern is ‘killer features’ or ‘killer bugs.’ I just need some voices of experience, someone who’s had the chance to compare the two. – Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First you need to ask yourself about coverage. Do either of these products cover all the areas you’d potentially want to map?  How many CDs will you need to buy to cover all the places you’d want to go? Hokay, so which product is best? Most versatile? Best for planning? Annotating? Printing? I need to choose one of these. What’re the best determinants of the  choice?

Response:

Well, coverage isn’t an issue. They can both cover Washington state, and I’m looking at North Cascades. While I can’t say price isn’t an issue, my main concern is ‘killer features’ or ‘killer bugs.’ I just need some voices of experience, someone who’s had the chance to compare the two.

I have DeLorme’s TopoUSA-Flyfishing edition & the maps are quite mawkish; I’m told they are vector images. Whatever the technical explanation, I find the accuracy level far, far below the most casual hiker/camper’s needs. The Maptech gives full scans of actual USGS topos & offers a number of enlargement ratios; the detail from an average injet printer is nearly up to actual printed topos. These aren’t bug, just limitations. I use the Maptech program to port waypoints to/from my GPS as well as build a personal atlas of my favorite portions of the Maine woods. Even have it on my laptop for field use. Yours in the north Maine woods, Pete Hilton aka The Ent — You can’t guard against the arbitrary.    anon.

Response:

Hokay, so which product is best? Most versatile? Best for planning? Annotating? Printing? I need to choose one of these. What’re the best determinants of the choice? – Scott

Both Maptech and TOPO!/National Geographic start with scans of 7.5 minute USGS maps, and both have different but useful interfaces. It works out to a good resolution for hiking. The regular DeLorme product is vector based, and works out to less detail but more coverage. It tends to be not enough detail for hiking. The different brands bundle states differently, so where you want to cover would make a big difference. Also, they work differently with GPS interfaces, if that is important to you. Happy trails, Gary (net.yogi.bear) at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

Response:

Question:

What are your best colors to make deerhair poppers and why? What size hook do you find the best? Have a great day, go fly fishing! Tight lines Craig Moore The English Fly Fishing Shop www.flyfishing-flies.com < < < < < < <

  < < < < < <

Response:

Both questions depend on what type of terrestrial bait you are imitating with the deer hair popper….   Early in the year there are a lot of green grasshoppers around and later in the year most grasshoppers you see out are darker colors.  Check your local areas to find out whats local that may be imitated by the poppers and go from there.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are your best colors to make deerhair poppers and why? What size hook do you find the best? Have a great day, go fly fishing! Tight lines Craig Moore The English Fly Fishing Shop www.flyfishing-flies.com < < < < < < <   < < < < < <

Response:

I am new to fly fishing and just learning to tie I took up fly fishing just to learn to make a 7 year locust.  (Zakadia?) Does anyone know of a pattern? — Highlander

Response:

I think you guys might have stumbled into the wrong newsgroup. Bass fisherman don’t normally tie lures. You might want to try alt.fly-tying or something else. — Jerry Barton Be nice to your kids, they get to pick your nursing home. http://members.home.net/jbarton248/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are your best colors to make deerhair poppers and why? What size hook do you find the best? Have a great day, go fly fishing! Tight lines Craig Moore The English Fly Fishing Shop www.flyfishing-flies.com < < < < < < <   < < < < < <

Response:

Take a look around this search (the spelling is "cicada"), and see if you can find anything. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=fly+tying+cicada+pattern Jamie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am new to fly fishing and just learning to tie I took up fly fishing just to learn to make a 7 year locust.  (Zakadia?) Does anyone know of a pattern?

Response:

Not.  In the past  I have  used fly’s on a spinning bubble I use anything for bass I am a all around fisherman and fish for pure pleasure In the past I was die hard bass man I use purple worms, Rapalas, and jitter bugs, and now use any weapon in my arsenal including a fly rod. I probably dont catch as many fish as I could But there is something about that water exploding with top water I love. Largest fish to date in southern Indiana stripper pits 7.5 Lb largemouth with my sons in the boat banging their toy trucks on the bottom in a clear lake (15 foot deep) around noon. So much for the rules I tried for years to get my wife interested and couldn’t Two years ago I finally got her out and on the second cast she caught a 6.5 pound bass Did I create a monster If I could only get her to put on her own crickets for gills I have found the postings on changing the hooks interesting. I started checking the sharpness several years ago and increased my catch by double Years ago I was fishing a pit off of a hill. I could see this bass following my worm. He followed it to shore where the only thing I could do was drop it pause and twitch. That sucker grabbed it ran dived come out of the water with a tail walk and spit it out. Dull hooks  Id give a hundred dollars for the vidio — Highlander

Response:

What brought this line up was years ago I got in the middle of a seven year locust hatch. We were using them for bait As fast as they hit the water they was gone Bass gill crappie. I had to quit fishing because my hands were bleeding from taking fish off the hook. Could stand some more of that. One time occurrence — Highlander

Response:

The two most popular patterns are a basically all black hairbug and then a frog pattern (green on top and yellow on bottom) then put rubber legs out the sides and neck hackles out the back. Not too big and not too small. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are your best colors to make deerhair poppers and why? What size hook do you find the best? Have a great day, go fly fishing! Tight lines Craig Moore The English Fly Fishing Shop www.flyfishing-flies.com < < < < < < <   < < < < < <

Response:

Question:

George, You seem to be the Rofiian expert here so……. Could you tell me where I would be able to purchase balde eagle feathers? I have an idea for a great dry fly pattern that would require these beauties….. Thanks Georgie……. Robert

Response:

George, You seem to be the Rofiian expert here so……. Could you tell me where I would be able to purchase balde eagle feathers? I have an idea for a great dry fly pattern that would require these beauties….. Thanks Georgie……. Robert

Ye Olde lil’ wayno’s?

Response:

I pondered this post a bit. Now we have plenty of baldies around so if you want a feather or two all you have to do is come down here, shiney up a tree where there is a nest, wait for the bird, grab a few and come back down. That’s the easy part. The hard part is explaining to a wildlife dude holding a smoke pole in your geezer that what you have is a turkey feather and all those scratches you have you got from a thistle while you picked up the feather. Would you like me to bring you anything on visitors day?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George, You seem to be the Rofiian expert here so……. Could you tell me where I would be able to purchase balde eagle feathers? I have an idea for a great dry fly pattern that would require these beauties….. Thanks Georgie……. Robert

Response:

Vasoline?  Soap on a rope?  Pictures of Wayno naked?      Frank Would you like me to bring you anything on visitors day?

Response:

George, You seem to be the Rofiian expert here so……. Could you tell me where I would be able to purchase balde eagle feathers? I have an idea for a great dry fly pattern that would require these beauties….. Thanks Georgie……. Robert

You can get one loaned to you by an American Indian.  How’s that for a legal answer and it happens to be a fact. — (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

Yes, I know its fact George….just having a little fun…… (some snippage) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George, You seem to be the Rofiian expert here so……. Thanks Georgie……. Robert You can get one loaned to you by an American Indian.  How’s that for a legal answer and it happens to be a fact.

Response:

Question…the bald eagle…or ‘iggle’ as the guide at the denver show called them…is no longer on the endagered or even threatened species list…correct ? — Halfordian Golfer .

Response:

Question…the bald eagle…or ‘iggle’ as the guide at the denver show called them…is no longer on the endagered or even threatened species list…correct ?

According to http://endangered.fws.gov/ they are classified as "threatened, proposed de-listing", but they are still on the list. — Charlie…

Response:

Question…the bald eagle…or ‘iggle’ as the guide at the denver show called them…is no longer on the endagered or even threatened species list…correct ? According to http://endangered.fws.gov/ they are classified as "threatened, proposed de-listing", but they are still on the list.

And I don’t think you’d be able to possess the feathers or hunt them regardless of their status on that list.  IIRC, the possession, hunting, etc. would still be controlled as are other "birds of prey" like hawks, and carrion-eating birds like vultures, would they not? TC, R

Response:

RDean writes: And I don’t think you’d be able to possess the feathers or hunt them regardless of their status on that list.  IIRC, the possession, hunting, etc. would still be controlled as are other "birds of prey" like hawks, and carrion-eating birds like vultures, would they not?

Time for a grandson story: Jeff and I were in Labrador in July of ‘98.  The guide pointed out the remains of a bald eagle laying on a sandy beach just above the area we were fishing. Jeff walked back and took all of the wing bones from  the skeleton.  When he showed them to me after dinner that night, I told him that I though possession of them was illegal.  I checked with the guide and he confirmed my suspicions. The next day Jeff asked if we could stop by the sandy beach.  When we did, he approached the eagle’s remains and very carefully placed each bone in the position he had found it.  It took him several minutes to complete his task. He was very solemn when he returned to face us.  He saw that I was near tears witnessing this tender moment of his.  He took his fly rod from me, smiled and said, "C’mon, Poppop.  Let’s catch some biggggg brookies."  We did.  <g Dave LaCourse, aka Pop Pop

Response:

I have a friend who has a few, but you better belong to the same type of tribe he does or else it gets costly.  Last I talked to him (3 months) they were still controled with a heavy fine if you weren’t Native American. Lou

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Question…the bald eagle…or ‘iggle’ as the guide at the denver show called them…is no longer on the endagered or even threatened species list…correct ? According to http://endangered.fws.gov/ they are classified as "threatened, proposed de-listing", but they are still on the list. And I don’t think you’d be able to possess the feathers or hunt them regardless of their status on that list.  IIRC, the possession, hunting, etc. would still be controlled as are other "birds of prey" like hawks, and carrion-eating birds like vultures, would they not? TC,

I heard tell some folks call bald turkeys vultures, ifn thats so there goes next thanksgiven turkey, guess this next year itl be storebought. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – R

Response:

I’m in awe of the birds of prey… *Why* are they treated differently than non bop’s ? Not a rhetorical question. Everything lives somewhere on the food chain…right ?

Response:

Tim Walker writes: I’m in awe of the birds of prey… *Why* are they treated differently than non bop’s ? Not a rhetorical question. Everything lives somewhere on the food chain…right ?

I think their treatment is the result of their resurgence.  For years there were no BOPs around because of ddt usage and other pollutions.  Today we have red tail hawks nesting on our land, and goshawks have also been spotted nearby.  After a recent snow storm, when the snow was still fresh and beautiful, a red tail swooped down the forested hill behind the house and swooped up a feeding bluejay.  There was a shadow, then an explosion of feathers as it flew off with the jay.  The impact area looked like a bomb crater with  many of the jay’s feathers spread out from "ground zero".   Dave L.

Response:

I’m in awe of the birds of prey… *Why* are they treated differently than non bop’s ? Not a rhetorical question. Everything lives somewhere on the food chain…right ?

well, i look around my neck of the woods at birds that seem abundant and cannot be killed (seagulls, bald eagles, turkey vultures, etc.) and i wonder how bad things would smell and how much extra garbage would be laying around without all these birds (and other animals) around to eat all of the dead animals and edible garbage… something to think about. cb

Response:

I have a friend who has a few, but you better belong to the same type of tribe he does or else it gets costly.  Last I talked to him (3 months) they were still controled with a heavy fine if you weren’t Native American.

My brother-in-law got one for his high school graduation last year. I’ll have to ask him if he knows the current rules.      - Ken

Response:

If you look in our local phonebook yellow pages under Native American, it says "see Indian". I just thought that was interesting. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a friend who has a few, but you better belong to the same type of tribe he does or else it gets costly.  Last I talked to him (3 months) they were still controled with a heavy fine if you weren’t Native American. My brother-in-law got one for his high school graduation last year. I’ll have to ask him if he knows the current rules.      - Ken

Response:

In Montana, you cannot possess any feather fron any raptor unless you hold a valid and current falconers license (Native Americans excepted). Having one "loaned" to you by a Native American doesn’t count (at least not here). — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George, You seem to be the Rofiian expert here so……. Could you tell me where I would be able to purchase balde eagle feathers? I have an idea for a great dry fly pattern that would require these beauties….. Thanks Georgie……. Robert You can get one loaned to you by an American Indian.  How’s that for a legal answer and it happens to be a fact. — (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

I’m in awe of the birds of prey… *Why* are they treated differently than non bop’s ? Not a rhetorical question. Everything lives somewhere on the food chain…right ? well, i look around my neck of the woods at birds that seem abundant and cannot be killed (seagulls, bald eagles, turkey vultures, etc.) and i wonder how bad things would smell and how much extra garbage would be laying around without all these birds (and other animals) around to eat all of the dead animals and edible garbage… something to think about.

Same could be said of rats too.  They eat all sorts of garbage!  :-) However,  I’ll keep shooting the longtail every chance I get.

Response:

I’m in awe of the birds of prey… *Why* are they treated differently than non bop’s ? Not a rhetorical question. Everything lives somewhere on the food chain…right ?

I think that those creatures lower down in the food chain can recover from dire times a lot easier than those higher up.  An easy way to illustrate this is to compare the breeding rates of lower down food chain species like rats and mice with the breeding rates of the predators.  I saw a program that informed of the sheer breeding power of the brown rat.  One pair of rats can create thousands or even hundreds of thousands of rats in one year; the rats are phenomenal multipliers.  I suppose that the food chains are like the Chinese Triad,  a wide and stable base to support the diminushing by layer orders above.  If the upper layers are removed,  then the lower orders become erratic and quite unstable. The top level predators are the product of the genetic refinery  and represent the cutting edge of evolution  (e.g. bats, dolphins,  (humans) and allsorts of others).  Whilst all levels are as important as each other in maintaining the appropriate balance,  the top level predators  are possibly more affected on a  numerical basis.  i.e.  breeding rates.

Response:

orders become erratic and quite unstable.

This is some sort of Republican Party code isn’t it?  <g The top level predators are the product of the genetic refinery  and represent the cutting edge of evolution  (e.g. bats, dolphins,  (humans) and all sorts of others)….

This idea that there is "progress" in evolution is a common fallacy.  A good book on this subject is "The Blind Watchmaker: Why the Evidence of Evolution Reveals a Universe Without Design," by Richard Dawkins. JR

Response:

This idea that there is "progress" in evolution is a common fallacy.  A good book on this subject is "The Blind Watchmaker: Why the Evidence of Evolution Reveals a Universe Without Design," by Richard Dawkins.

Actually, the notion that there is no "progress" in evolution a cause championed most famously by Stephen J. Gould, who happens to be Dawkins’ intellectual enemy. Their feud goes way back, and I think it’s fair to say that they detest each other. I once asked Dawkins’  what he thought about a paper by Gould and Lewontin (The spandrels of San Marco and the Panglossian paradigm: A critique of the adaptationist programme. Proceedings of the Royal Society of London, B205:581-598) that bears on exactly this issue. He (Dawkins) raved for at least ten minutes about how stupid and misguided the paper is. Dawkins’ own views on the subject are more accurately summarized in the book "Climbing Mount Improbable," which definitely gives the impression that there is "progress" of a sort in evolution (i.e., climbing higher on the Mount Improbable). My own opinion is that if there weren’t progress in evolution we’d still be blue-green algae, or worse. The problem is that "progress" is a subjective concept. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Jeff and I were in Labrador in July of ‘98.  The guide pointed out the remains of a bald eagle laying on a sandy beach just above the area we were fishing. Jeff walked back and took all of the wing bones from  the skeleton.  When he showed them to me after dinner that night, I told him that I though possession of them was illegal.  I checked with the guide and he confirmed my suspicions. The next day Jeff asked if we could stop by the sandy beach.  When we did, he approached the eagle’s remains and very carefully placed each bone in the position he had found it.  It took him several minutes to complete his task. He was very solemn when he returned to face us.  He saw that I was near tears witnessing this tender moment of his.  He took his fly rod from me, smiled and said, "C’mon, Poppop.  Let’s catch some biggggg brookies."  We did.  

Thanks Dave, These personal anecdotes are my favorite posts. Willi

Response:

You’re right that definitions of progressive evolution differ.  The disagreement between Dawkins and Gould on this matter is in fact is pretty much a difference in definitions.  Dawkins believes that in order to deny progress in evolution, Gould insists on a human-chauvanistic definition "which makes it all too easy to deny progress in evolution."   His own definition he calls "adaptationist;" i.e., "a tendency for lineages to improve cumulatively their adaptive fit to their particular way of life, by increasing the numbers of features which combine together in adaptive complexes."   No doubt Gould thinks this definition makes it all too easy to *propose* progress in evolution.  Nevertheless, Dawkins, like Gould, does not and never has believed in the sort of "progress" implied in the concept of a "ladder of life," on which there are higher and lower orders.  This is the sort of evolutionary progress I believe Michael was referring to in his original post. I tend to think that the feud between Dawkins and Gould is blown out of proportion by the popular (and popularizing) press and that it is unlikely they "detest" each other.  I’ve read reviews by Dawkins of Gould’s books and reviews that, while disagreeing strongly with one argument or another, display no rancor or animosity. Quoted from a response by Dawkins to a Guardian article about the "feud": "Stephen Gould certainly is an ‘implacable opponent of . . . genetic determinism’.  Right then, Dawkins must be in favour of it – otherwise there wouldn’t be a feud, and that would be no fun. In fact, as anybody would know who reads what I actually say instead of what I am supposed to say, I too am an implacable opponent of genetic determinism. "Gould thinks that the extinction of the dinosaurs had nothing to do with natural selection. Sorry to spoil the fun, but so do I.  Gould thinks natural selection is not the only force shaping the course of evolution. Well, I know it seems a shame, but so do I, and I have devoted large portions of my books to explaining this." ***** Just what did Dawkins disagree with in the Gould / Lewontin article? BTW, you don’t think the idea that something older than blue-green algae on the evolutionary scale is somehow "worse" than blue-green algae (or us) is just the sort of human chauvinism that *both* Dawkins and Gould would rave against. <g JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This idea that there is "progress" in evolution is a common fallacy.  A good book on this subject is "The Blind Watchmaker: Why the Evidence of Evolution Reveals a Universe Without Design," by Richard Dawkins. Actually, the notion that there is no "progress" in evolution a cause championed most famously by Stephen J. Gould, who happens to be Dawkins’ intellectual enemy. Their feud goes way back, and I think it’s fair to say that they detest each other. I once asked Dawkins’  what he thought about a paper by Gould and Lewontin (The spandrels of San Marco and the Panglossian paradigm: A critique of the adaptationist programme. Proceedings of the Royal Society of London, B205:581-598) that bears on exactly this issue. He (Dawkins) raved for at least ten minutes about how stupid and misguided the paper is. Dawkins’ own views on the subject are more accurately summarized in the book "Climbing Mount Improbable," which definitely gives the impression that there is "progress" of a sort in evolution (i.e., climbing higher on the Mount Improbable). My own opinion is that if there weren’t progress in evolution we’d still be blue-green algae, or worse. The problem is that "progress" is a subjective concept.

Response:

My own opinion is that if there weren’t progress in evolution we’d still be blue-green algae, or worse. The problem is that "progress" is a subjective concept.

Perhaps the most succinct and irrefutable refutation of one’s own opinion that I have ever seen. Wolfgang o.k., this oughta be good!

Response:

Question:

Come on guys, lets cut out the BS, & supply a service to those of us who truly expect to find useful info here rather than ongoing juvenile wordy

vendettas. "supply a service ?" You have a serious misconception of the usenet don_in_ottawa. I am incensed by the gall of your post. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

"supply a service ?" You have a serious misconception of the usenet don_in_ottawa. I am incensed by the gall of your post. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

  Go get him Timbo "release the hounds"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Come on guys, lets cut out the BS, & supply a service to those of us who truly expect to find useful info here rather than ongoing juvenile wordy vendettas. "supply a service ?" You have a serious misconception of the usenet don_in_ottawa. I am incensed by the gall of your post. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

I agree with you Tim….if he wants service…I think he ought to send us some friggin’ money. TANSTAAFL  ..uhhh…US dollars please. –Wataugan Walt

Response:

Damn, there are sharks in this stream! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Come on guys, lets cut out the BS, & supply a service to those of us who truly expect to find useful info here rather than ongoing juvenile wordy vendettas. "supply a service ?" You have a serious misconception of the usenet don_in_ottawa. I am incensed by the gall of your post. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…" I agree with you Tim….if he wants service…I think he ought to send us some friggin’ money. TANSTAAFL  ..uhhh…US dollars please. –Wataugan Walt

Response:

Come on guys, lets cut out the BS, & supply a service to those of us who truly expect to find useful info here rather than ongoing juvenile wordy vendettas.

        oh, golly, don, thanks for putting us in our place.  let’s see:  do you think sage rods are better than orvis?  here’s the hot tip on the yellowstone this week:  tie on (with an improved clinch, of course) a adams in the morning, a royal wulff in the mid-day, and an elk hair caddis near dark.  btw, do you think 2mm waders are sufficient for late june on the au sable?  hey, have you got a load of the new 50 pocket vest from l.l. bean?  it holds all 350 patterns of bwo’s i’ve identified after a long weekend in the loving arms of a.k. best.  ad infinitum.  ad nauseum.  nighty night.         a. wayne harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Don writes: Come on guys, lets cut out the BS, & supply a service to those of us who truly expect to find useful info here rather than ongoing juvenile wordy vendettas. Welcome to ROFF, Don! Like it or not, that’s the way this newsgroup goes. You can sort through for the useful info, as it will be there. You are, however, asking for trouble with posts like this,as the rabid dogs will search you out. Tim Patterson may even post a web page about you, but I think his server is pretty well Ginked up….                                         Tom Littleton

______  ha!  that’s funny, Tim.  In fact,you’re not far off from our famous motto and in Tim Patterson’s case,  "Gink Keeps It Up" includes him.  Isn’t what your saying is, "Without me, Tim Patterson couldn’t make it?" hum?  You may have a point? I have a problem though, Tim.  I keep releasing him but he keeps coming back.  Possibly we should start a new group?  rec.outdoors.fishing.boomerang.suckers.tim (?) mercy.

Response:

Yea, good idea!  Let’s start!!  You go first!! Uh.. hello?  You there Don? Come on guys, lets cut out the BS, & supply a service to those of us who truly expect to find useful info here rather than ongoing juvenile wordy vendettas.

-Mark/Particle Salad Particle Salad/Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad

Response:

Ya I’m here but after many years of intermittent fly fishing on west coast and back east in Ontario and Quebec, I modestly don’t feel I have the expertese to significantly contribute  to the body of knowledge in the literature and what is commonly known. That being the case, I peruse this UG occasionally to see if anything of note has been said. I am well tackled (no pun intended) but am a very unaccomplished tyer. I am no purist and do not practice C & R, primarily because my friends and I have been doing our own stocking for many years in lakes which do not permit natural reproduction of either specs or rb. Rarely do I meet an opportunity to use dries and we normally use nymphs and streamers, of which we have developed a few local patterns. I have my own ideas which I do not inflict on others, except I cast right, real left and preach this to anybody who will listen. And I’ve been using George’s stuff for many years, which I suppose will bring more brick-bats….. Unfortunately, I don’t get out as much as I would like but hope springs eternal amd I have asperations of hooking one of the Ottawa River browns which are coming along nicely, so I am told. For those of you who do get out and into the back country, who love maps etc. and are interested in GPS as an aid to your travels, check out this URL where most of my time on line goes:           http://www.synapse.net/~dbartlett/gpsutm.htm This is NOT a commercial site. Don Bartlett Yea, good idea!  Let’s start!!  You go first!! Uh.. hello?  You there Don?

Response:

Come on guys, lets cut out the BS, & supply a service to those of us who truly expect to find useful info here rather than ongoing juvenile wordy vendettas.

Response:

Don writes: Come on guys, lets cut out the BS, & supply a service to those of us who truly expect to find useful info here rather than ongoing juvenile wordy vendettas.

Welcome to ROFF, Don! Like it or not, that’s the way this newsgroup goes. You can sort through for the useful info, as it will be there. You are, however, asking for trouble with posts like this,as the rabid dogs will search you out. Tim Patterson may even post a web page about you, but I think his server is pretty well Ginked up….                                         Tom Littleton

Response:

Question:

Try tying the Spider Hitch with four turns.   A friend and I tested this on Izorline’s machines at the last Fred Hall Show and found the knot is strongest when tied with four turns.  More turns actually weaken the knot.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I tried to tie SpiderWire to mono.  To avoid the complicated Bimini Twist, I used Spider Hitch (6 loops) on my 50 pounds SpiderWire.  Surprisingly, SpiderWire broke at the knot.  I tested several times and results were the same.  What’s wrong with the SpiderWire/Spider Hitch combination?  Seems to me that the SpiderWire is not as strong as what I thought. John

Response:

Can any of you guys direct me to a place to find this "albright" and "spiderhitch" knots?? I have been trying to collect as many knots for these new braids and polymers as possible. Thanks KLH — Please remove KH from e-mail to respond

Response:

I tried the SpiderWire braid recently and boy can I agree with you. My first cast saw the lure fly away by itself.    The same thing happened about 4 casts later with another new lure.   I also found the line winding up on the drag knob on top of the spool a few times.   I cut about 50 feet of tangled up line and tried again.   Eventually I found I could cast farther but decided against throwing lures with it

It has to be that your knots are pulling thru when the lure flies off the line like that.  Spiderwire is very ‘knot-sensitive’.  I use only UNI-knots and have 100% line strength every time.  Never had a break at the knot, and jig fishing the St. Clair River(12-18mph current with very sharp rocks) the rocks had to practically cut the line in two to weaken it significantly. I definitely don’t recommend casting any braided line with anything but a level wind reel.  I don’t care what advertising hype the marketers use, there’s just too much line twist using a spinning reel with braided. Now the fusion works OK on my Stradic 2000.  Get nice King Salmon with it.  But its casting live bait on a 3-way swivel rig type of casting. Cast and retrieve still gets too much line twist for me.

Response:

Can any of you guys direct me to a place to find this "albright" and "spiderhitch" knots?? I have been trying to collect as many knots for these new braids and polymers as possible. Thanks KLH — Please remove KH from e-mail to respond

Here are several nice sites I’ve found on the Web that are dedicated to knots:         http://www.ozemail.com.au/~fnq/fishing/         http://www.earlham.edu/suber/knotlink.htm  (*excellent list of links*)         http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/2158/knotix.htm Btw, the last link has the Albright right there on the first page.  And, also, I’ve been fishing with Spiderwire for the last 3 years or so and have found the Albright to be far and away the best knot for attaching the stuff to mono. Good luck, Peter.

Response:

I’ve been fishing with Spiderwire for the last 3 years or so and have found the Albright to be far and away the best knot for attaching the stuff to mono. Good luck, Peter.

Can you tell us what’s the best knot(s) in your mind, Peter? John.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For years I have used TriMax, and Trilene 4lb. Test lines for Snapper Blue fishing in CT on Long Island Sound without any problems. This year when I re-spooled at the start of the Season I decided to switch to SpiderWire. I have found out through MANY breaks, tangles, snarls, nots, and birdsnests causing lost fish that this VERY Expensive line is definitely not all that it is advertised to be. The slightest nick, knot, or any tangle will reduce the strength ot this line to "0". I am very disappointed with this product and I will not waste my money on it ever again. I live within walking distance of one of the hottest Stripper fishing areas in CT, and have talked with many other fishermen this season who have tried this line. Without exception their experiences all mirror mine. This line seems VERY prone to tangles, nots, and nicks. It Is a very strong line when in Perfict condition, but after your first couple of casts it is not perfect any more.  Bill I tried the SpiderWire braid recently and boy can I agree with you. My first cast saw the lure fly away by itself.    The same thing happened about 4 casts later with another new lure.   I also found the line winding up on the drag knob on top of the spool a few times.   I cut about 50 feet of tangled up line and tried again.   Eventually I found I could cast farther but decided against throwing lures with it and tried bottom fishing.    This is where the line excells.   I could feel the bottom so clearly that it was as if I was touching it with my finger.    I could feel the slightest taps of the fish.    This caused me to pull the bait out of their mouth so it required patience to allow the bait to be swallowed.    I’m still uncertain about the line. It’s so light that you have to keep an eye on it because it can so easily wrap around a guide or anything sticking out. — Norman Hirsch                      Fax:  212-304-9759 NH&A                               BBS:  212-304-9759,,,,,,,3 577 Isham St. # 2-B                CompuServe:  72115,661 Phone: 212-304-9660                URL: http://www.nha.com

When you respool, try the fused superlines.  I like both fusion and fireline.  Just started using the fireline and I think I will switch to it from fusion.  It seems to have more wear resistance.  I have no problems with knots, in fact when I do get a birds nest on my baitcasters it is much easier to remove than mono. Tim — Tim’s Coastal Georgia Fishing Page http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/1000/

Response:

I tried to tie SpiderWire to mono.  To avoid the complicated Bimini Twist, I used Spider Hitch (6 loops) on my 50 pounds SpiderWire.  Surprisingly, SpiderWire broke at the knot.  I tested several times and results were the same.  What’s wrong with the SpiderWire/Spider Hitch combination?  Seems to me that the SpiderWire is not as strong as what I thought. John

Response:

I tried to tie SpiderWire to mono.  To avoid the complicated Bimini Twist, I used Spider Hitch (6 loops) on my 50 pounds SpiderWire.  Surprisingly, SpiderWire broke at the knot.  I tested several times and results were the same.  What’s wrong with the SpiderWire/Spider Hitch combination?  Seems to me that the SpiderWire is not as strong as what I thought. John

What did you test it with, a tow truck?  Either it was a very bad batch or something; I don’t see how you could break the good stuff just by pulling on it.  I can’t hardly hold 30lb. test stuff while I cut it with a knife.  Slips right thru my fingers or would cut the daylights out of my hand.  Try a double UNI knot.  Works for my ‘wire to mono’ connections.  No slip and no weakening.

Response:

For years I have used TriMax, and Trilene 4lb. Test lines for Snapper Blue fishing in CT on Long Island Sound without any problems. This year when I re-spooled at the start of the Season I decided to switch to SpiderWire. I have found out through MANY breaks, tangles, snarls, nots, and birdsnests causing lost fish that this VERY Expensive line is definitely not all that it is advertised to be. The slightest nick, knot, or any tangle will reduce the strength ot this line to "0". I am very disappointed with this product and I will not waste my money on it ever again. I live within walking distance of one of the hottest Stripper fishing areas in CT, and have talked with many other fishermen this season who have tried this line. Without exception their experiences all mirror mine. This line seems VERY prone to tangles, nots, and nicks. It Is a very strong line when in Perfict condition, but after your first couple of casts it is not perfect any more.  Bill

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For years I have used TriMax, and Trilene 4lb. Test lines for Snapper Blue fishing in CT on Long Island Sound without any problems. This year when I re-spooled at the start of the Season I decided to switch to SpiderWire. I have found out through MANY breaks, tangles, snarls, nots, and birdsnests causing lost fish that this VERY Expensive line is definitely not all that it is advertised to be. The slightest nick, knot, or any tangle will reduce the strength ot this line to "0". I am very disappointed with this product and I will not waste my money on it ever again. I live within walking distance of one of the hottest Stripper fishing areas in CT, and have talked with many other fishermen this season who have tried this line. Without exception their experiences all mirror mine. This line seems VERY prone to tangles, nots, and nicks. It Is a very strong line when in Perfict condition, but after your first couple of casts it is not perfect any more.  Bill

Since the line has zero memory (stretch) it will always snap at the given weight tolerance whether the line is new or nicked. With slow-even retrieve it’ll work fine and perform beyond the test tolerance, but it can snap on hookset.  It can also cause you to loose fish that are not ‘hooked’ well.  Slack line with no memory will simply ‘fall’ out of the fish’s mouth.  The knotting, bunching and tangling can be from an uneven retrieve speed (which is natural). The super lines are very unforgiving.                                      Kate — Corners Sports and Tackle                       5303 South 108th Street                         Hales Corners, Wisconsin 53130                   (414)425-2640

Response:

I tried to tie SpiderWire to mono.  To avoid the complicated Bimini Twist, I used Spider Hitch (6 loops) on my 50 pounds SpiderWire.  Surprisingly, SpiderWire broke at the knot.  I tested several times and results were the same.  What’s wrong with the SpiderWire/Spider Hitch combination?  Seems to me that the SpiderWire is not as strong as what I thought. John What did you test it with, a tow truck?

Believe it or not, I simply used my hand to pull and it broke. I tested several time to prove it.  Not that SpiderWire is no good, but the tests showed that the Spider Wire/ Spider Hitch combination is probabily no good.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -For years I have used TriMax, and Trilene 4lb. Test lines for Snapper Blue fishing in CT on Long Island Sound without any problems. This year when I re-spooled at the start of the Season I decided to switch to SpiderWire. I have found out through MANY breaks, tangles, snarls, nots, and birdsnests causing lost fish that this VERY Expensive line is definitely not all that it is advertised to be. The slightest nick, knot, or any tangle will reduce the strength ot this line to "0". I am very disappointed with this product and I will not waste my money on it ever again. I live within walking distance of one of the hottest Stripper fishing areas in CT, and have talked with many other fishermen this season who have tried this line. Without exception their experiences all mirror mine. This line seems VERY prone to tangles, nots, and nicks. It Is a very strong line when in Perfict condition, but after your first couple of casts it is not perfect any more.  Bill

I tried the SpiderWire braid recently and boy can I agree with you. My first cast saw the lure fly away by itself.    The same thing happened about 4 casts later with another new lure.   I also found the line winding up on the drag knob on top of the spool a few times.   I cut about 50 feet of tangled up line and tried again.   Eventually I found I could cast farther but decided against throwing lures with it and tried bottom fishing.    This is where the line excells.   I could feel the bottom so clearly that it was as if I was touching it with my finger.    I could feel the slightest taps of the fish.    This caused me to pull the bait out of their mouth so it required patience to allow the bait to be swallowed.    I’m still uncertain about the line. It’s so light that you have to keep an eye on it because it can so easily wrap around a guide or anything sticking out.   — Norman Hirsch                      Fax:  212-304-9759 NH&A                               BBS:  212-304-9759,,,,,,,3 577 Isham St. # 2-B                CompuServe:  72115,661 Phone: 212-304-9660                URL: http://www.nha.com

Response:

I have been using the Spider-Wire Fusion line for the past two years. I won’t use anything else on my lighter rod and spinning reel combos. I have found that the lighter and longer the pole the better the cast and feel are. I have used the fusion wire for live bait fishing, ripping, and trolling. If you cast alot, tie a heavy sinker on the end of the line and cast it in your backyard a couple dozen times before you go fishing. This will not get rid of the loops but it will loosen them, making it much easier to cast lighter set ups.Make sure you read the pamphlet that comes with the Spider Wire, it will show you how to properly load it on your reel and how to tie knots with it. It does not act or feel like mono and it takes some getting used to. I hated the first spool I bought too. I like the Fusion Wire because it floats and doesn’t wrap itself around submerged objects between the bait and my pole. The sensitivity of the line is far superior to any mono I have ever used, I can  tell what kind of fish is checking out its last supper 80% of the time. I don’t wait until the fish hooks itself to set the hook. I depend on the flexability of my pole rather than the flexability of the line. I have caught more bites this year than anyother year fishing. I have been using the Fusion Wire with Jitter Bugs and Hulla Poppers the past couple of weeks with great results. I use a stiff rod and keep all slack out of the line. Perhaps it is the line or the line made me change my style of fishing but I sure do like the Fusion wire.                                     Mike   WOLVERINE

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I tried to tie SpiderWire to mono.  To avoid the complicated Bimini Twist, I used Spider Hitch (6 loops) on my 50 pounds SpiderWire.  Surprisingly, SpiderWire broke at the knot.  I tested several times and results were the same.  What’s wrong with the SpiderWire/Spider Hitch combination?  Seems to me that the SpiderWire is not as strong as what I thought. John What did you test it with, a tow truck? Believe it or not, I simply used my hand to pull and it broke. I tested several time to prove it.  Not that SpiderWire is no good, but the tests showed that the Spider Wire/ Spider Hitch combination is probabily no good.

I am assuming you are using the braided spider wire.  That will cut right through itself or mono.  I have switched to using spider wire fusion or fireline.  I use palomar knots for terminal tackle and uni-knots for line to and some terminal knots and albrights for line to wire.  Of course I am not using 50 pound test, but the results should be the same.  Never had any of them break due to knots and only had some wear problems on slip weights that rub on the line over time, have to retie once or twice a day.  Love the lines! — Tim’s Coastal Georgia Fishing Page http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/1000/

Response:

I love the stuff for bottom fishing.  This is where it’s ultra sensetivity shines.  I use palomar knots for terminal tackle and albrights for lint to line or wire.  I haven’t had a problem with the line cutting through itself.  Although, it will dig through the line on the spool and bury itself.  That isn’t much of a problem.  I use 80 lb. test for grouper.  Ocasionally a hook will hang on the bottom.  All I do is tie the line to a cleat and power ahead.  The albright holds, and if you have a strong enough swivel, you can go right back fishing w/o tying a new knot. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I tried to tie SpiderWire to mono.  To avoid the complicated Bimini Twist, I used Spider Hitch (6 loops) on my 50 pounds SpiderWire.  Surprisingly, SpiderWire broke at the knot.  I tested several times and results were the same.  What’s wrong with the SpiderWire/Spider Hitch combination?  Seems to me that the SpiderWire is not as strong as what I thought. John What did you test it with, a tow truck? Believe it or not, I simply used my hand to pull and it broke. I tested several time to prove it.  Not that SpiderWire is no good, but the tests showed that the Spider Wire/ Spider Hitch combination is probabily no good. I am assuming you are using the braided spider wire.  That will cut right through itself or mono.  I have switched to using spider wire fusion or fireline.  I use palomar knots for terminal tackle and uni-knots for line to and some terminal knots and albrights for line to wire.  Of course I am not using 50 pound test, but the results should be the same.  Never had any of them break due to knots and only had some wear problems on slip weights that rub on the line over time, have to retie once or twice a day.  Love the lines! — Tim’s Coastal Georgia Fishing Page http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/1000/

Response:

Question:

I use a wheelchair and though I would be transferring from my chair into the boat. Any advice or recommendations of where to look would be greatly appreciated. I am a complete novice as far as boats are concerned and all information on things that I should consider will be gratefully received.

There is a printed magazine called "Sports n’ Spokes printed by PVA Publications (paralized vets) that covers outdoors and athletic activities for the wheelchair world.  I haven’t seen a copy in a couple years (used to be very good.) Can reach PVA pubs at 602-224-0500 They probably have some past issues with boating articles, plus they have a questions area. Gary Polson RBBI http://www.virtualpet.com/rbbi

Response:

I would like some advice on what might be an appropriate style/make/model of small boat for use when either trolling or fly fishing on lakes. In the past I have used a converted 10 foot Portaboat with the center bench removed and a padded seat suspended between the front and back benches. A seat clamped onto a middle bench perched me too high and was not sufficiently stable for my comfort, which is why a three bench aluminum rowboat is probably not what I am seeking. I use a wheelchair and though I would be transferring from my chair into the boat, it must be something that allows be ready access from sitting on a dock to sliding into the boat. Climbing is not an option. My ideal boat would allow a small outboard motor and an electric trolling motor and have seating that allowed two people to sit comfortably and fish while at anchor. It should be light enough that one person could retrieve it and load it onto a trailer without any heavy lifting. I want something that is stable. Speed is not a consideration – just something to poodle about a calm lake. Any advice or recommendations of where to look would be greatly appreciated. I am a complete novice as far as boats are concerned and all information on things that I should consider will be gratefully received. Thanks, —

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like some advice on what might be an appropriate style/make/model of small boat for use when either trolling or fly fishing on lakes. In the past I have used a converted 10 foot Portaboat with the center bench removed and a padded seat suspended between the front and back benches. A seat clamped onto a middle bench perched me too high and was not sufficiently stable for my comfort, which is why a three bench aluminum rowboat is probably not what I am seeking. I use a wheelchair and though I would be transferring from my chair into the boat, it must be something that allows be ready access from sitting on a dock to sliding into the boat. Climbing is not an option. My ideal boat would allow a small outboard motor and an electric trolling motor and have seating that allowed two people to sit comfortably and fish while at anchor. It should be light enough that one person could retrieve it and load it onto a trailer without any heavy lifting. I want something that is stable. Speed is not a consideration – just something to poodle about a calm lake. Any advice or recommendations of where to look would be greatly appreciated. I am a complete novice as far as boats are concerned and all information on things that I should consider will be gratefully received. Thanks, —

You do not list where you want to fish and what tpe of lake you are fishing so this may or may not be appropriate. I would look at a tri hull you should be able to pick up a used tri hull posibly arround 18-20 feet which if very stable for a couple thousand I would think.My father in law had one for years and it was nice boat. Another option would be a pontoon boat but I am not sure how easy that would be to trailor and how rough of water it would take. If you are fishing a larg lake like lake Erie I suggest you charter of go with a friend because a boat that can handle sudden storms typically has a lot of overhead like dockage and insurance etc. I think dockage arround here runs from about $700-1800 dollars another option which I recomend is use transient dockage. If you have a decent size boat you can put it in lake Erie at a Marina like Genva Stae park for about $22 per day so if you reserved a slip for Saturday you could come up fish Saturday and leave your boat in the wtaer after fishing and come back and go boating in the afternoon and evening and then then next morning you are already in he water so you can go out again and then at the end of the day take your boat home. If you sleep on the baot your showers etc are included in the price. If you come for 10 weekedns the cost is arround $220 and that is a beteer part of the summer.A caomparable dock is $1080 for a season so this is an alternative. Yo obviously would not be retricted to weekends only but you see the savings is there. I hope this helps Captain Bryce Seymour http://www.ncweb.com:80/biz/hooker/

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Question:

Will be in the Boston area this summer, and will probably bring my fly rod with me. Any interesting waters near by?

Hi Andrea.  I’m guessing that you’re doing freshwater?  If so I’d recommend the Squannacook River in Townsend.  Close to Boston there really isn’t much except still water.  Although Jamaica Pond right in the city is heavily stocked and said to be excellent.  Out in Townsend about 45 miles +/- from the city I had an excellent night yesterday. You might call Squannacook River Outfitters in either Groton or Townsend for information.  Enjoy, Bill.

Response:

Will be in the Boston area this summer, and will probably bring my fly rod with me. Any interesting waters near by?

Response:

Will be in the Boston area this summer, and will probably bring my fly rod with me. Any interesting waters near by?

Plenty of great fly fishing.  The big question is what type of fishing are you looking for?  Trout?  Striped Bass?  There’s a big difference in the type of tackle.   My web site has plenty of usefull information and is update 5 times a week with fishing news for New England and more specifically Massachsetts.  http://www.geocities.com/Baja/3297/fishing.htm In short, to answer your question, there’s lots of great fishing.  If you can give us a little more info, I’m sure we can give you better tips. Tight Lines — Mark N. Cahill For E-mail remove the _Remove_This from the reply to address. http://www.geocities.com/Baja/3297

Response:

Question:

Sorry if this is a re-post, but I never saw my original post, so here I go again: The other day I found an old South Bend bamboo fly rod at an antique shop.  The rod it self was in pretty good shape, but the guides and grip were shot.  It has a plastic reel seat with slip rings, and the cork grip has grooves in it, spaced about 1 inch apart.  It’s a 3- piece and each piece is of equal length. My question is this:  I would like to rebuild the rod and fish with it, since I doubt the rod has any collectable potential.  Does anyone know about these South Bend rods, and would it be worth my effort and expense to rebuild it and fish with it?  The shop wants $65.

Steve, Depends on whether you’re more interested in refinishing it or fishing it.    Some South Bends were ok, others were not.  If you want to start this as another hobby, $65 is a cheap investment and not much loss if you screw it up.   Some things to look for – are the pieces straight? If not you’re going to have to strip the varnish too because you have to use an alcohol lamp to heat it up to straighten it.  Are the ferrules still tight?  How’s the varnish – chipped, bumpy (alligatored)?  Check each piece carefully for delamination of the strips and "hook digs".   If you’re interested, I can give you the name of a rod dealer who carries "handyman’s specials". Ross

Response:

Of course it’s worth it. I keep and fish several old "mediocre" uncollectible rods with no market or collector value just for the fun of variety. I can think of few things more worthless than a rod which is never used. Cheers, Ken. — Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

Response:

Steve, Ken is right.  Go for it.  If you are interested in it at all, claim the rod.  There’s a distinct difference between "restoration" and "repair".   You’ve taken the obvious precautions to make sure you aren’t taking a chance on a collectible, so give it a try.  Take your time, think ahead, be careful, and you will find that your efforts will be well worth it. Think of this:  You’re on a trout stream.  You’re fishing with a rod made by an anonymous someone who may have built your rod long before your time.   You rescued that rod from obscurity and added somethinng of yourself to it.  You catch and release a fish.  What better way to recognize that original maker and your sport? Another book for reference is "The Fine Bamboo Fly Rod" by Stuart Kirkfield (Stackpole Books).  It sets a reasonable thought pattern on what has to be done.  Good luck! –

Response:

Sorry if this is a re-post, but I never saw my original post, so here I go again: The other day I found an old South Bend bamboo fly rod at an antique shop.  The rod it self was in pretty good shape, but the guides and grip were shot.  It has a plastic reel seat with slip rings, and the cork grip has grooves in it, spaced about 1 inch apart.  It’s a 3- piece and each piece is of equal length. My question is this:  I would like to rebuild the rod and fish with it, since I doubt the rod has any collectable potential.  Does anyone know about these South Bend rods, and would it be worth my effort and expense to rebuild it and fish with it?  The shop wants $65. Thanks in advance for any responses.  Feel free to e-mail me. Steve –  A sunny day,       a box of midges,          and a wandering stream…    Man, this MUST be heaven!    <    Steve Kulpa    <<

Response:

Pick up the book titled" Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook" by Mike Sinclair. It is by far the best book out about this subject. All your questions will be answered.  If you can’t find it e-mail me and I’ll give you info. By the way 65 dollars to rebuild a cane rod is awfully cheap. Id look at a rod they had restored before turning them loose on my cane rod.             Mark Heskett

Response:

Question:

Geez.   One extremely well-written post about the impact of campfires and 4 sub-posts about how rocks can explode.  Seems like the point is being missed. I agree with Rick.   Everything we do has an impact of some kind.  Unless we’re willing to completely vacate the backcountry,  arguing about fires is truly splitting hairs. In high backcountry I continue to obey a self-enforced policy of no fires.  I agree with those who say that you’re more in touch with nature without the glare of flames.  At the same time, there are times a fire is a natural and morally acceptable practice, and a welcome companion on a cold or wet night.   I say, use your own judgement.  If you have none, I’ll spend a bit more time cleaning up after you.  It’s a small price to pay for the wilderness. Jim Stallings  - Seabeck, Washington "Concrete is heavy; iron is hard – but the grass will prevail"   Ed Abbey

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Scott Stuart) writes:   NOTE- I don’t think I have to say, but just in case….  DONT use rocks   from the lake in your fire ring, they will explode, and send deadly   shrapnel and hot coals everywhere.   What’s all this about exploding rocks? Believe me, THEY DO EXPLODE! One time I was backpacking with my friends and we had to make a small camp site (we couldn’t find any on the trail).  I used some of the larger rocks near a small stream to make our campfire ring. It was 1-2 hrs after we got the fire started, that one of the rocks cracked (from steam preasure inside). Nobody was hurt (suprised though) but next time I know better where to find my campfire rocks! Kurt

Nah, let them NOT believe you and see it for themselves.  It’s the only way some people learn.

Response:

:    NOTE- I don’t think I have to say, but just in case….  DONT use rocks :    from the lake in your fire ring, they will explode, and send deadly :    shrapnel and hot coals everywhere.   : What’s all this about exploding rocks?  While packing in the Porky’s in the UP of Mi we built a fire ring with  rocks from the creek. Well never again,after sitting down to a meal  the damm fire blew up in our face. As luck/fate would have it no one  got hurt but several in our group had holes in there clothing from  flying rocks. In short don’t use wet rocks since there have retained  water in them and when heated steam builds up in them which means  pressure builds up in them and you get the picture by now.  Hopes this helps  Ike Grill somewhere in Wisconsin and still have sight.

Response:

  NOTE- I don’t think I have to say, but just in case….  DONT use rocks   from the lake in your fire ring, they will explode, and send deadly   shrapnel and hot coals everywhere.   What’s all this about exploding rocks?

Believe me, THEY DO EXPLODE! One time I was backpacking with my friends and we had to make a small camp site (we couldn’t find any on the trail).  I used some of the larger rocks near a small stream to make our campfire ring. It was 1-2 hrs after we got the fire started, that one of the rocks cracked (from steam preasure inside). Nobody was hurt (suprised though) but next time I know better where to find my campfire rocks! Kurt

Response:

(Joseph Scott Stuart) writes: What’s all this about exploding rocks?

"Creek rocks!" – (I’m sure someone will correct me if I get this wrong) Yes, exploding rocks.  A rock that’s been submerged (particularly   something porous like sandstone) is soaked with water.  If you put it in a   fire, it heats up.  If it heats up, too quickly for the water to escape   (which is a likely condition) the rapidly expanding water vapor inside the   rock will cause it to "explode" – marvelous "fun" about a campfire for   those so inclined… but something I would prefer to avoid. – Mark

Response:

   NOTE- I don’t think I have to say, but just in case….  DONT use rocks    from the lake in your fire ring, they will explode, and send deadly    shrapnel and hot coals everywhere.   What’s all this about exploding rocks?

Response:

        In light of the most recent rearing of the ugly head of anti-campfire zealots, I feel compeled to post what I know about minimizing campfire impact.  But first, an introduction and a caveat.         I don’t dispute the fact that fires do quite a bit of damage to the environment.  Allowing campfires in heavily-impacted areas is very often a mistake, due to the many problems associated with both the combustion process and the act of building the fire itself- such as trampling around the undergrowth and scarring (most often permanently) fire ring rocks.  I support fire bans in high-use areas for these reasons.  I would include nearly all well-known back-country areas stateside in my list of fire-ban areas, since they get alot of use.  Moreover, nearly any high-country worth backpacking is fragile enough to make a fire ban neccessary.         BUT, fire bans are NOT appropriate in all areas.  Zealots like those who posit that all fire-builders are selfish are being incredibly short-sited and self absorbed.  Not everyone limits travels to a) backpacking, b) heavy- use areas, c) the USA, and d) trips of short duration (read: less than one week).         A few posters have noted that they, like I, rely almost exclusively on fires for trips in Far northern Saskatchewan and Manitoba.  By far northern I mean north of the Churchill river- and my favorite area- the Wollaston Lk, Cochran River area.  This is heavily wooded (although 50 or so miles south of the tundra), heavily forest-fire burnt (every area has evidence of fire within about 30 years), and rarely traveled since the voyageurs used the rivers as fur trading routes.           These trips are over thirty days in length, making it totally impractical to carry fuel.  You couldn’t carry enough of it, for one. You wouldn’t want to risk a spill when there are weeks of paddling in between even native settlements.  And, you generally wouldn’t be able to afford the cost of the fuel.  Moreover, cooking for six people over a stove is futile for heavy-calorie meal prep.   Not to mention the fact that I never had to stray  more than twenty feet from the site to find bone-dry driftwood laying either on the beaches (in the north) or on the rocks (on the shield), in enormous quantities. Presented with the above, in addition to the impact of burning the fossil fuels and inevitable spills of fuel on VERY fragile Caribou moss, I opt for the fires.  Any arguments to the effect of the "more efficient burning" of stoves or "quicker boiling time" are just splitting hairs. Anyone who has been in a similar situation with similar numbers is welcome to disagree.  Theorists can continue to theorize…  ’nuff said.           The Impact of fires, given the above, needs to be minimized.  Any traveler who manages to GET to this area cares enough to want to preserve it.  [Ask me sometime about the two day all dirt road trip to my dropoff point on Wollaston.]  Part of the joy of this area is the feeling of solitude that comes from such a pristine wilderness- and anyone who is there is immediately faced with the enormous responsibility to preserve it.  Many of the natives and non-native fly-in fishing guides and non-native camps pollute their nests with "shore lunch’ fires using HUGE chunks of driftwood left half-burnt on shore,  toss fish innards all over the place, and generally behave with the abandon of 19th century humankind when they were faced with the seemingly endless ocean- and treated it like a bottomless wastecan.           Ok. So if you DO get up there- or you DO make a decision to use fires- what do you do to minimize the impact?  I’ll do it point by point: 1) Gather only fallen, dead wood.  Never break off branches (even from "dead" trees still standing).  Walk at least 100 yds away from the campsite before beginning to gather. 2). Know your woods.  Pine burns fast and hot- birch slow and cool.  Pine and hardwoods are better for starting fires, which can then be maintained with bigger, slower-burning woods like birch.  LOTS of wood is wasted by people trying to start fires with the wrong wood.  Moreover, the right wood on a proper set of coals will burn very efficiently, indeed.  And with little smoke. 3) Fire rings-                 A). Always used established fire rings where available.  If none are available:                 B). Sod turning technique:  Clear away duff.  Cut out a rectangle about 4-6 inches deep in the earth.  Build the fire in the hole.  Make sure (as ALWAYS) that the fire is OUT COMPLETELY, then replace the rectangle back in the hole.  This technique’s advantage is that it is VERY low-impact, but if you like to burn dishwater or food scraps, you run the risk of critters unearthing your cinders.  You can line the hole with rocks, but they will be scarred black and unsightly.  If you do use the rocks, you can either bury them or "lake" them when cold.                 C). Flat Rock Technique:  This was my favorite on the shield.  Find a flat rock, and build the fire on it.  It scars only that rock (or any others you use as wind shields, depending on conditions) which you can "lake."  Meaning, of course, that you toss it, when cold, into the lake, where mother nature will turn the scarred rock into dust in a few millenia. NOTE- I don’t think I have to say, but just in case….  DONT use rocks from the lake in your fire ring, they will explode, and send deadly shrapnel and hot coals everywhere.   4)  Size- Limit yourself to "cooking" fires- about the size of the bottom of your skillet.  And limit the size of your fuel to the diameter of a silver dollar.  These fires are plenty hot when well maintained- even in the June snows of Saskatchewan. 5) Try not to pollute other people’s environment- remember, a fire from across the lake is a reminder than you are not alone.  Some people like to feel alone.  So keep the fire small and as much out of site as is practical. 6) Consider using "fire sticks" or similar firestarters to cut down on kindling needs, especially on wet days. Hopefully this is useful information for the teeming masses.   ANY trip into the wilderness implies a gentle balance between impact and enjoyment.  To have any enjoyment by being someplace means that you have to, first, get there (by burning fossil fuels) and then, move around (trampling the underbrush or trail).  Not to mention the equipment most of us cart around.  If you want to get under a Patagonia Rep’s skin sometime, ask about the vats and vats of caustic slop that is left over after making out synchilla such pretty colors.  How about the boots? Either we kill off a bunch of cows, or we boil a bunch of dead dinosaurs and make a Texan rich.   One campfire isn’t going to do anywhere near as much environmental damage as the dye and industrial waste used to produce just ONE piece of polarfleece.  If we are serious enough to split hairs over campfires in the terms that we are using here ("all campfires are always bad and the people who make them are all selfish, we should all use stoves"), then I hope that we are serious enough to have educated ourselves as to the impact of the crap we cart around and the crap that we put on our pathetic, fragile, human bodies when out in the wild.  [BTW I mean ALL humans have fragile, pathetic bodies.  We don't fare well naked above the tropics or at altitude.]         In short- welcome to the real world folks- there is no such thing as zero impact.  This is not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. There is reason to minimize impact, not to give up and merely enjoy other people’s video travelogues (using electricity and plastic, but I digress…).  Minimizing impact may sometimes mean choosing the lesser of two evils, and reasonable people may differ as to the best choice of those evils.  There are about 5 different ways to walk through a mountain meadow, any one of which will garner the ire of adherents of the other 4.         Educate yourself as to the choices, and make what, in your judgement, is the best choice for your situation.  When the choices are close, don’t make the call for somebody else.

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Question:

I’m only a few days from heading up to Yellowstone and southern Montana type of flys might work best?  I suppose that some elk hair caddis might be good.    thanks,            drex

I could help more if you had mentioned which areas of which rivers you plan to fish?  However, this time of year I never go to the Yellowstone area without flys for these hatches:         1. Baetis (Small blue wing olives):             – nymph ( size 18 Pheasant tails)         – emerger (size 18 & 20 RS2’s) usually fished as a nymph            before the hatch.         – Renee Harrop no hackles (in sizes 18 & 20)         – Adams (without wing)         2. Trico’s (females black size 20 to 22, Males olive size 20):         – Spinner ( blue dun wings) split tail and I add a  third             parachute wing so I can see the bloody things.  White             parachute wing for days).  When the fish are on trico             spinners don’t even bother fishing anything else.         –  Dun: dun hackles body colors above don’t bother with a              wing unless you need it to see it.  I clip the hackles to get             a lower float and I usually carry parachute versions.  I              don’t find the duns to be as inportant as the spinners.             Note the same flys work for baetis duns and Trico males,              i.e. olive no hackles and size twenty adams w/o wings.         – Dun

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I’m only a few days from heading up to Yellowstone and southern Montana for a glorious week of fly fishing.  A few months ago, when I was planning this trip, I sent out requests for places to fish up there.  If there are any others that would like to share their knowledge of the area, I would certainly appreciate it.  My current plans are pretty loose, but we intend to fly into Jackson Hole(the one fly competition is going on there), and then drive up to Yellowstone.  Then we’ll make a big loop that will include West Yellowstone, up to Bozeman, across to Livingston, and then back down into Yellowstone.  Does anyone have advice on fishing this time of year and what type of flys might work best?  I suppose that some elk hair caddis might be good.         thanks,                 drex

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