Question:

Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info. Ryan

Response:

Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down.

DAMN!  That’s some fine fishin’ – catchin’ without even casting….<G They were using worms and chopped perch meat.

And if you wanted perch, may I ask why you didn’t do what they were doing? My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend?

Ones that look and smell like worms and chopped perch meat.   Seriously (and yes, I do mean this seriously), why bother, if the goal is catching those perch?  If the goal is simply experimenting to see if it can be done, then, yes, it can, but don’t confuse it with FF’ing (in the "traditional" sense).  It seems if you’re interested in catching perch, you’ve seen what works (and works remarkably well) for catching them.  I guess I don’t understand the desire to catch anything and everything on a fly rod.  Some things just don’t really lend themselves to "flyfishing" (as one normally thinks of FF’ing, and yes, I realize one can rig up something), and IMO, fishing that deep is one of them.  By the time you get rigged, you’re going to essentially combining bait-casting with a fly rod.   I suppose there’s nothing "wrong" with that, but why not just bait-cast with bait-casting gear, or if one is some kind of FF’ing-gear-only snot, just don’t fish for those things and live with the fact that if you’re gonna be a snot, you lose out. To me, it’s sorta like asking, "I saw a Porsche 996 racing on TV.  I have a Suburban/Camry/Ford sedan/Volvo station wagon/(some other unsuited vehicle).  Could I race like that?   Can I do something to my vehicle to make it work?"   Yeah, probably.  But again, why? (assuming the goal is racing, and not converting vehicles)  You can take out a screw with a butter knife and butter toast with a screwdriver, too, but why not just use the most appropriate and best-suited tool(s) for the task at hand? Thanks for the info.

Pretty sure it’s not the info you wanted, but you’re welcome. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ryan

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Well, if my geometry is right your going to have to cast out 53 feet of line to be at a 35 foot depth 35 feet from where you’re standing. Full sinking line? I’d try a clouser or better yet, a pearl chenille bead/cone head wooly buger. john

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Use the 5 wt rod and fish with little streamers. For example in summer at dog days a freind of mine uses a fly called Jule Trae and a sink tip. He always catches some perch. Good luck and tight lines Wim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info. Ryan

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R- Points well taken. Thanks, Ryan -Snip-

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You can take out a screw with a butter knife and butter toast with a screwdriver, too, but why not just use the most appropriate and best-suited tool(s) for

Splendid. And thank you. You’ve covered more than fishing here. Sometimes it’s easy to forget the focus of the job at hand. Drew (with a callused spot on my forehead)

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I don’t know rdean may have somethin’ here.  I have several heavy weight flyrods, but perching on them just doesn’t sound like a good idea. Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can take out a screw with a butter knife and butter toast with a screwdriver, too, but why not just use the most appropriate and best-suited tool(s) for Splendid. And thank you. You’ve covered more than fishing here. Sometimes it’s easy to forget the focus of the job at hand. Drew (with a callused spot on my forehead)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info. Ryan

In that location, worm dunking seems to be your only choice.  However, I’ve caught plenty of perch in the shallows using a two weight and beadhead nymphs.  They take very gently so sight fishing to them in clear water is best.  Small streamers should work too. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical. I don’t guess whether you mean using fly rods on the B.A.S.S. pro tour?

Me feeling is that the fly rod might be the very best tool for the job under most conditions when bass are shallow. When bass are deep, we especially should not fish C&R for them, so this isn’t much of a quandary…. TBone

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I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical. We should not close our eyes to all other kinds of fishing, IMO. The perch are biting here, at Waneka, and I have been out with nightcrawlers and my dachsund Spork for three weekends in a row and we’ve been having a ball.

Um, are you sure Spork likes going out and having a ball with you and nightcrawlers?  If PETA (or, possibly, the Colorado State Police) finds out, you’re in BIG trouble…are you sure it isn’t illegal in Colorado, as it is in a number of the other several States… Oh, wait…did you mean you were FISHING with Spork?  Well, he must be about gone by now, and frankly, that’s pretty mean just for a few perch.  Whoda thunk dachshund were below perch on the food chain….

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<lake washington experiment snipped Drive over to Green Lake and fish dry flies off the pier for landlocked salmon instead. Bring a radio and listen to Niehaus do the Mariners playoff games. Ogle the joggers. Bring a bag of Tim’s Cajun chips. Have an Oberto Cocktail Pep. Bring a buncha BWOs. Watch out for the goose poop. – sid sometimes missing seattle

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…….Bring a bag of Tim’s Cajun chips…….

I knew it.  I just KNEW it!  First it’s fish, then it’s Dachshunds, and now Cajuns.  That’s just wrong!    :( Wolfgang

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…….Bring a bag of Tim’s Cajun chips……. I knew it.  I just KNEW it!  First it’s fish, then it’s Dachshunds, and now Cajuns.  That’s just wrong!    :( Wolfgang

It’s even worse. It is unethical. Herman

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I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical. We should not close our eyes to all other kinds of fishing, IMO. The perch are biting here, at Waneka, and I have been out with nightcrawlers and my dachsund Spork for three weekends in a row and we’ve been having a ball. Your pal, — TBone

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info. Ryan

Response:

I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical. We should not close our eyes to all other kinds of fishing, IMO.

Can’t argue that, but then there’s always the challenge of doing something the hard way The perch are biting here, at Waneka, and I have been out with nightcrawlers and my dachsund Spork for three weekends in a row and we’ve been having a ball.

"Spork", eh? Perfect. /daytripper (I shoulda known

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I knew it.  I just KNEW it!  First it’s fish, then it’s Dachshunds, and now Cajuns.  That’s just wrong!    :(

Dang, I missed it again!  What’s wrong with Dachshunds?

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I knew it.  I just KNEW it!  First it’s fish, then it’s Dachshunds, and now Cajuns.  That’s just wrong!    :( Dang, I missed it again!  What’s wrong with Dachshunds?

Well, aside from a reputed susceptibility to back problems and the usual unsavory canine hygiene practices, not a thing that I can think of.  It’s the Cajuns that stick in my craw. Wolfgang

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  It’s the Cajuns that stick in my craw.

Try cutting them up into smaller pieces, and chewing them a little longer. hth, Kevin, hoping you didn’t misspell "cojones"

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[snip] Well, aside from a reputed susceptibility to back problems and the usual unsavory canine hygiene practices, not a thing that I can think of.  It’s the Cajuns that stick in my craw. Wolfgang

1. Let me report that you may remove the word "reputed" from the above.  I have 2 Dachshunds, 1 with a "slipped disc" that has caused her to lose partial movement in her rear legs. 2. What kind of ‘unsavory canine hygience practices’ could you be referring to?  You mean when they drag all sorts of dead (either that they’ve killed, or just found) rodents to my door?  You mean when they kill a rat and decide to *eat* half of it, and bring me the legs (you know those little bones just irritate their gums)?  You mean smelling around for dog crap and then eating it (no, it never happens, really) if it really smells ‘good’? You mean…well, I think I get the picture… Rob p.s. got a craw stuck in my teeth at the last Cajun festival..:)

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…..got a craw stuck in my teeth at the last Cajun festival..:)

Hm….this could lead to all sorts of recursive ruminations. Wolfgang where’s max smart when you really need him?

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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical.

I don’t guess whether you mean using fly rods on the B.A.S.S. pro tour? – — "Armchair warriors often fail, and we’ve been  poisoned by these fairy tales" -Don Henley —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7zSGtrpli/675/DERAlGdAKCDXQHl4/+d80An8f3CJfvXyzMdmACeNJy3 7Gq+de7flkgrCo01m39YZXA= =Ropa —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

The perch are biting here, at Waneka, and I have been out with nightcrawlers and my dachsund Spork for three weekends in a row and we’ve been having a ball.

Sure you can eat perch with a dachshund Spork, but why not use the right tool for the job?

Response:

I don’t know rdean may have somethin’ here.  I have several heavy weight flyrods, but perching on them just doesn’t sound like a good idea. Op

Not in ten feet of water.. but they are a lot of fun to fish for in the shallows! Herman

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info.

well, as others have said, it might be tough reaching where the conventional anglers were fishing with light tackle… but in lake washington there are places to catch them in shallower water. when i was a kid, i was a perch killing maniac at lake washington.  i fished the wooden bridges at the walking trails near the arboreum (you can see them driving the 520 bridge).  i fished small jigs tipped with a chunk of worm, but i don’t doubt that a small white wooley bugger with a conehead, beadhead, or weighted eyes would work.  i did best around some of the sunken timber near the edges…. but it has been awhile.  and i also did best in july and august. give it a shot, and there’s nothing like fishing next to a bridge jammed with rush hour traffic (which now is almost all day). chris

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I wouldn’t fish for them with a fly rod in that situation.  5 weight with a sink tip probably wouldn’t reach them.  Maybe with a Clouser Minnow. In shallow water I’ve caught lots of perch that size with nymphs and small streamers (Clousers, marabou Thundercreeks).  And perch more than twice that size on the streamers.  Fun with a 3 weight. Glenn << My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? << Ryan GKT

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Question:

I managed a nasty face plant on that trip because I stood up, took a step and snagged my fin on the oar. Don’t forget to get those fins off before you stand up. They call me grace. snip- BTW I lost a fin (also borrowed) when the bottom muck pulled – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it off while I was trying to stand. Use straps.

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Thanks for the input, chaps, much appreciated.  Confirmed much of what I thought. Another Question … Do you drift rivers in pairs? For safety as well as convenience. I’m thinking about car relays, like we do for the raft, i.e drop a vehicle (usually after depositing the raft at put in) at a takeout. I suppose its possible some pontoons would be light enough to carry some way (not that I’ve seen any here yet).   Steve BTW: Ryan, I don’t need no flippers, oars or other props to do a face plant.

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I rented a pontoon boat this summer and floated my favorite river. The Yakima river in central Washington is a "large river" to me (in most places I cannot stand on one bank and cast across to the other…). The water for the most part, and depending on the time of year, is calm. There are a few stretches of heavy ripples, but they only stretch for approximately 50 yards or so. It’s easy enough to bear down and get past them. Prior to floating the river on the pontoon boat, I was always dependant upon a guide, and their boat, to fish this river effectively. Wading access is limited by steep and rocky banks in most areas. Since I’ve floated the river several times with a guide, I’m comfortable enough to know where the good spots are and I’m efficient enough to get to them on a pontoon boat. When I pontoon drifted the river, I tried (mostly unsuccessfully) to fish as I drifted as opposed to drifting from location to location. It’s difficult to successfully consider your position on the river, hold a rod, worry about fly lines and keep the oars pointed in the right direction all at once. Not a pretty site and not a stress free afternoon. My recommendation would be: 1) absolutely try it. 2) don’t wear flippers on the river (too hard to control and definately hard to get out of the boat when you get anchored at a good spot). 3) mainly fish once you get to the proper location on the river. 4) don’t worry about fishing while you’re on the move on the boat. I must say that as I reflect on the times that I’ve caught fish on the river, either with a guide or on the pontoon boat, it’s always been a situation where I could have been standing in a foot or two of water. Now I have to go weigh my options: to buy a new 3wt fly rod and reel this winter, or get a new pontoon boat instead… Ryan

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I understand that its possible to use flippers as well oars to control these craft, thus freeing up the hands for other purposes, but is it feasible to fish on any but the slooooowest moving streams in this manner?

I know its possible, because I’ve seen people doing it.  When I tried it myself, though, I quickly realized that I wasn’t coordinated enough to control the boat and fish at the same time.  Of course, I’ve never been the most graceful person in the world. Kevin

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I have a pontoon boat, and fish rivers and lakes using it. For lake fishing, it is very comfortable to wear flippers to move to boat slowly, hold position, or work slowly over an area. You can move quite quickly over longre distances by using the oars. The boats sit high in the water, and move quite easily. They are responsive and you can fish while using flippers to control the boat. The only down side to the pontoon boats on lakes is that in windy areas like where I live, it sometimes gets too hard to control the boats with flippers. I have used pontoon boats on reasonably fast, waters in the Canadian Rockies. I wear wading boots, and use the oars for controlling direction. I would never wear flippers on a river. Just too dangerous. I do not fish while travelling, but use the boat for access. You drift downstream for a while, stop when you reach good water, and fish. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – G’day all, Here in Aus. we’re starting to see an influx of watercraft such as pontoon boats (at absolutely ludicrous prices i.e. way too much but thats another story).  Along with the influx comes the hype and in particular the claim that they can be used on rivers to "fish while you drift". Now I think controlling the craft while drifting while fishing would be difficult in the extreme on moving water.  In fact I susepect it might be outright dangerous – sure the craft can be used to drift from location to location, but fishing from it at the same time? I understand that its possible to use flippers as well oars to control these craft, thus freeing up the hands for other purposes, but is it feasible to fish on any but the slooooowest moving streams in this manner? Thoughts? experiences? Steve

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G’day all, Here in Aus. we’re starting to see an influx of watercraft such as pontoon boats (at absolutely ludicrous prices i.e. way too much but thats another story).  Along with the influx comes the hype and in particular the claim that they can be used on rivers to "fish while you drift".   Now I think controlling the craft while drifting while fishing would be difficult in the extreme on moving water.  In fact I susepect it might be outright dangerous – sure the craft can be used to drift from location to location, but fishing from it at the same time? I understand that its possible to use flippers as well oars to control these craft, thus freeing up the hands for other purposes, but is it feasible to fish on any but the slooooowest moving streams in this manner? Thoughts? experiences? Steve

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Question:

Blow Me! Op

I think I’ll pass. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s interesting to me how ROFF has redefined the word "whine." Roff defines "whine" as a criticism of Roff. No other posts, criticisms, arguments etc. are ever labelled as "whining". Mark, I personally think that what you say is legitimate. It’s more on topic than most posts and IMO, your observation is accurate. If things run true to form, your post will start a flame war and unfortunately and ironically it will now be your turn to get flamed. Stay Tough Willi

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a pretty new subscriber to this newsgroup, and I’ve already managed to have my fill of a couple characters on here. One guy posts something, and one or two others respond with only assanine, sophomoric bullshit. If you want to flame each other, and play your childish little games, do so through email. I don’t know why the hell a couple of you feel the compelling need to act like a jackass with another member, and I really don’t give a damn. Grow up and act like adults. You guys know who I’m talking about, and the people know who they are. The constant little remarks and jabs get sick of reading. It’s bad enough that one has to wade through spam on these newsgroups, but then to have members flaming others at every little chance they get is stupid. If you really can’t reply to someone with at least a bit of civilness, don’t bother replying at all. Saves everyone else the time wasted on adding you to a killfile. To everyone else on here: Thanks for being adults. Tight lines.

Yeah.  <puffing up chest You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.  Messing up a perfectly good newsgroup so that Mr. McKenzie can’t enjoy it. Oh wait a minute.   On second thought… Fuckthat whining, bowlegged, shit-eating, cock-guzzling, limp-dicked, ass-munching, no-tooth-having,  fart-knocking, scotch-spilling, llama-fucking, foreskin-gobbling, chickenshit, redneck, po-dunk, meshugga, doodoo head. Joshua

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If you don’t like what some people post, killfile them and don’t read them, don’t freakin’ whine.  Pathetic. Is some other dope gonna post another silly whine?

It’s interesting to me how ROFF has redefined the word "whine." Roff defines "whine" as a criticism of Roff. No other posts, criticisms, arguments etc. are ever labelled as "whining". Mark, I personally think that what you say is legitimate. It’s more on topic than most posts and IMO, your observation is accurate. If things run true to form, your post will start a flame war and unfortunately and ironically it will now be your turn to get flamed. Stay Tough Willi

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On second thought… (some expressions of disapproval snipped)

"no-tooth-having"?  Kind of rough on the new guy aren’t you?  :) JR

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I’m a pretty new subscriber to this newsgroup, and I’ve already managed to have my fill of a couple characters on here.

        well, i have managed to have my fill of you and i have posted here for at least six years.         this is not a place for children, wimps, fools, pig-headed twits, paranoid schizos, hypocrites, illiterates, dimwits, cowards, bullies, and chiefly, whiners.         this place is darwinian.  i suspect your life span could be measured in moments. wayno

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I *live* for threads like the one you’ve opened. If only killfiles had expiration dates and HWMNBM would post more, the fun would never stop!

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  I have been a lurker/participator of the NG for over a year.  More lurker than participator however one thing that I have noticed is if you ask a serious question you will get serious, honest and best of all excellent responses. There is a lot of experience at this NG. If you ask a hypothetical question you can start a thread that produces excellent theories and good arguments for each theory. If you ask a bullshit question or state an opinion.  Well you know what they say, opinions are like assholes, every one has a least one and this group has a lot.   The bottom line is you can tell a flame response by the first sentence. If you don’t want to read it, just click next. —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a pretty new subscriber to this newsgroup, and I’ve already managed to have my fill of a couple characters on here. One guy posts something, and one or two others respond with only assanine, sophomoric bullshit. If you want to flame each other, and play your childish little games, do so through email. I don’t know why the hell a couple of you feel the compelling need to act like a jackass with another member, and I really don’t give a damn. Grow up and act like adults. You guys know who I’m talking about, and the people know who they are. The constant little remarks and jabs get sick of reading. It’s bad enough that one has to wade through spam on these newsgroups, but then to have members flaming others at every little chance they get is stupid. If you really can’t reply to someone with at least a bit of civilness, don’t bother replying at all. Saves everyone else the time wasted on adding you to a killfile. To everyone else on here: Thanks for being adults. Tight lines.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you don’t like what some people post, killfile them and don’t read them, don’t freakin’ whine.  Pathetic. Is some other dope gonna post another silly whine? It’s interesting to me how ROFF has redefined the word "whine." Roff defines "whine" as a criticism of Roff. No other posts, criticisms, arguments etc. are ever labelled as "whining".

I disagree – I certainly wouldn’t flame someone who offered a legitimate opinion, expressed as such, about flames, etc.  But what possible difference can it make to those "unflamed?"  If 2, 12, or 30 people want to call _each other_ all sorts of things, and don’t target "civilians," why should the, er, non-combatants care?  Everyone is perfectly free to either read and enjoy/cringe, or ignore it, and unless they discuss it, no one will know what they do.  Therefore, I don’t see one person _telling_ others how to act as a legitimate criticism, I see it as a "power trip," or more accurately, whining because things aren’t the way the whiner wants them to be – "Waaa! _I_ don’t like this!  Change it now!"  Well, the participants seem to enjoy it, so why should they change to satisfy those who don’t even have to participate, or even see what bothers them?  Now, if someone simply wished to offer they were dismayed by it, fair enough, I suppose, but I must admit, I don’t even see the need or point in that, for the same reasons above. Mark, I personally think that what you say is legitimate. It’s more on topic than most posts and IMO, your observation is accurate. If things run true to form, your post will start a flame war and unfortunately and ironically it will now be your turn to get flamed.

Hang on, Willi, (and, as above, all IMO) – this isn’t somebody who was conned into paying his money to join a club, rent shelter, or whatever and showing up, and finding out that he was in danger of injury, things were too noisy to concentrate, or other happenings affecting his purchased right to "quiet enjoyment."  He got here via computer, and he had the ability to research what ROFF was like – other than referral, one HAS to search for ROFF as there is simply no other way to get here, and either way, one has ready tools to get a feel for what goes on.  Therefore, if one chooses to read ROFF, then one accepts that it is a free, but unregulated, forum, and one must choose what to read and what not to read.  Suppose someone "complained" that not enough <insert species here technique discussion took place, or there was too much "in jokes," or other "complaints?"   If one doesn’t like certain topics on ROFF, then don’t read them, but to try and make a NG conform to what any one person wants is not only just plain silly, it’s rude and arrogant.  Suppose he just showed up and started telling you how to run your business, your personal relationships, etc.  Now, if he had simply asked if ROFF was always like this, for the purposes of deciding what he wanted to do, I (and I suspect others) would have been much less sarcastic.  But to show up and start bitching about ROFF and making blind accusations, of the "we all know…" sand box gang-type is just asking for it (and who knows, maybe it’s a troll).  He obviously knows what a killfile is, so why not just use it if he can’t control what he reads, and save the "I’m new, here’s what’s wrong, and here’s the way it ought to be – my way" nonsense.   TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Stay Tough Willi

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a pretty new subscriber to this newsgroup, and I’ve already managed to have my fill of a couple characters on here. One guy posts something, and one or two others respond with only assanine, sophomoric bullshit. If you want to flame each other, and play your childish little games, do so through email. I don’t know why the hell a couple of you feel the compelling need to act like a jackass with another member, and I really don’t give a damn. Grow up and act like adults. You guys know who I’m talking about, and the people know who they are. The constant little remarks and jabs get sick of reading. It’s bad enough that one has to wade through spam on these newsgroups, but then to have members flaming others at every little chance they get is stupid. If you really can’t reply to someone with at least a bit of civilness, don’t bother replying at all. Saves everyone else the time wasted on adding you to a killfile. To everyone else on here: Thanks for being adults. Tight lines.

Have you seen the movie "Gauntlet" where the good guy drives an armored bus through a whole messload o bad guys?  I hope you enjoyed it. Welcome, Scott

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Good post and many others agree with you. All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

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[snip] If you really can’t reply to someone with at least a bit of

civilness, don’t bother replying at all. [snip] To everyone else on here: Thanks for being adults. Tight lines.

Mark, I agree with you whole-heartedly.  I appreciate (and desire) your call to civility. But, and this is *really* hard for me to say, BUT ROFF flaming is a work of art [sic]. I’ve been lurking on the group since August of 1999, and I haven’t seen anything change, no matter who says what to whom about whatever. I do participate on a local chat board (or whatever its called). Flaming akin to ROFF started up, and one of the worst offenders started complaining about all the flaming! I pointed this out, he changed his ways, and now the board is a *lot* more civil…until the next flame war starts… which is bound to happen. I don’t like reading the muck, but eventually it *does* die down. Even with the muck, there is enough real information that makes it worthwhile. I appreciate your contributions, and that of many others. I am a relative newbie at flyfishing, and am always trying to absorb as much as possible. Right now I’m not at the experience level to be able to contribute meaningfully to the ffing topics. But I will when able. When my opinions become strong convictions I’m sure I’ll open myself up to all sorts of flames. The linguistic content of the flames usually is a reflection of the strength of language used by the originator of strong convictions. It other words, you get what you dish out. It comes with the territory called netnews. Most of the chief flamoids have a history in this group that bears upon each thread. Now, if I was a *real* adult, I wouldn’t participate in this particular group. <G But still I still lurk (and occasionally contribute). Rob

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Blow Me! Op – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s interesting to me how ROFF has redefined the word "whine." Roff defines "whine" as a criticism of Roff. No other posts, criticisms, arguments etc. are ever labelled as "whining". Mark, I personally think that what you say is legitimate. It’s more on topic than most posts and IMO, your observation is accurate. If things run true to form, your post will start a flame war and unfortunately and ironically it will now be your turn to get flamed. Stay Tough Willi

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You swine. You vulgar little maggot. You worthless bag of filth. As they say in Texas, I’ll bet you couldn’t pour piss out of a boot with instructions on the heel. You are a canker. A sore that won’t go away. I would rather kiss a lawyer than be seen with you. You’re a putrescent mass, a walking vomit. You are a spineless little worm deserving nothing but the profoundest contempt. You are a jerk, a cad, a weasel. Your life is a monument to stupidity. You are a stench, a revulsion, a big suck on a sour lemon. You are a bleating foal, a curdled staggering mutant dwarf smeared richly with the effluvia and offal accompanying your alleged birth into this world. An insensate, bleating calf, meaningful to nobody, abandoned by the puke-drooling,giggling beasts who sired you and then killed themselves in horified recognition of what they had done. I will never get over the embarrassment of belonging to the same species as you. You are a monster, an ogre, a malformity. I barf at the very thought of you. You have all the appeal of a paper cut. Lepers avoid you. You are vile, worthless, less than nothing. You are a weed, a fungus, the dregs of this earth. And did I mention you smell? Try to edit your responses of unnecessary material before attempting to impress us with your insight. The evidence that you are a nincompoop will still be available to readers, but they will be able to access it more rapidly. You snail-skulled little rabbit. Would that a hawk pick you up, drive its beak into your brain, and upon finding it rancid set you loose to fly briefly before spattering the ocean-rocks with the frothy pink shame of your ignoble blood. May you choke on the queasy,convulsing nausea of your own trite,foolish beliefs. You are weary, stale,flat and unprofitable. You are grimy, squalid, nasty and profane. You are foul and disgusting. You’re a fool, an ignoramus. Monkeys look down on you. Even sheep won’t have sex with you. You are unreservedly pathetic, starved for attention, and lost in a land that reality forgot. And what meaning do you expect your delusionally self-important statements of unknowing, inexperienced opinion to have with us? What fantasy do you hold that you would believe that your tiny-fisted tantrums would have more weight than that of a leprous desert rat, spinning rabidly in a circle, waiting for the bite of the snake? You are a waste of flesh. You have no rhythm. You are ridiculous and obnoxious. You are the moral equivalent of a leech. You are a living emptiness, a meaningless void. You are sour and senile. You are a disease, you puerile one-handed slack-jawed drooling meatslapper. On a good day you’re a half-wit. You remind me of drool. You are deficient in all that lends character. You have the personality of wallpaper. You are dank and filthy. You are asinine and benighted. You are the source of all unpleasantness,You spread misery and sorrow wherever you go. You smarmy lagerlout git. You bloody woofter sod. Bugger off, pillock. You grotty wanking oik artless base-court apple-john. You clouted boggish foot-licking twit. You dankish clack-dish plonker. You gormless crook-pated tosser. You churlish boil-brained clotpole ponce. You cockered bum-bailey poofter. You craven dewberry pisshead cockup pratting naff. You gob-kissing gleeking flap-mouthed coxcomb. You dread-bolted fobbing beef-witted clapper-clawed  flirt-gill. You are a fiend and a coward, and you have bad breath. You are degenerate, noxious and depraved. I feel debased just for knowing you exist. I despise everything about you, and I wish you would go away. I cannot believe how incredibly stupid you are. I mean rock-hard stupid.Dehydrated-rock-hard stupid. Stupid so stupid that it goes way beyond the stupid we know into a whole different dimension of stupid. You are trans-stupid stupid. Meta-stupid. Stupid collapsed on itself so far that even the neutrons have collapsed. Stupid gotten so dense that no intellect can escape.Singularity stupid.Blazing hot mid-day sun on Mercury stupid. You emit more stupidity in one second than our entire galaxy emits in a year. Quasar stupid. Your writing has to be a troll. Nothing in our universe can really be this stupid. Perhaps this is some primordial fragment from the original big bang of stupid. Some pure essence of a stupid so uncontaminated by anything else as to be beyond the laws of physics that we know. I’m sorry. I can’t go on. This is an epiphany of stupid for me. After this, you may not hear from me again for a while. I don’t have enough strength left to deride your ignorant questions and half baked comments about unimportant trivia, or any of the rest of this drivel. Duh. The only thing worse than your logic is your manners. I have snipped away most of what you wrote,because, well… it didn’t really say anything. Your attempt at constructing a creative flame was pitiful. I mean, really, stringing together a bunch of insults among a load of babbling was hardly effective… Maybe later in life, after you have learned to read,write, spell, and count, you will have more success. True, these are rudimentary  skills that many of us "normal" people take for granted,that everyone has an easy time of mastering. But we sometimes forget that there are "challenged"persons in this world who find these things more difficult. If I had known, that this was your case then I would have never read your post. It just wouldn’t have been "right". Sort of like parking in a handicap space. I wish you the best of luck in the emotional, and social struggles that seem to be placing such a demand on you. P.S. You are hypocritical, greedy, violent, malevolent, vengeful,cowardly, deadly, mendacious, meretricious, loathsome, despicable,belligerent,opportunistic, barratrous, contemptible, criminal, fascistic, bigoted,racist, sexist,avaricious, tasteless, idiotic, brain-damaged, imbecilic, insane, arrogant,deceitful, demented, lame, self-righteous, byzantine, conspiratorial,satanic,fraudulent, libelous, bilious,splenetic, spastic, ignorant, clueless,illegitimate,harmful, destructive, dumb, evasive, double-talking, devious, revisionist,narrow,manipulative, paternalistic, fundamentalist, dogmatic, idolatrous,unethical, cultic,diseased, suppressive, controlling, restrictive, malignant, deceptive, dim,crazy,weird, dystopic, stifling, uncaring, plantigrade, grim, unsympathetic,jargon-spouting,censorious, secretive, aggressive, mind-numbing, arassive, poisonous,flagrant,self-destructive, abusive, socially-retarded, puerile, clueless, and generally Not Good. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion  P.S.  Have a nice day.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a pretty new subscriber to this newsgroup, and I’ve already managed to have my fill of a couple characters on here. One guy posts something, and one or two others respond with only assanine, sophomoric bullshit. If you want to flame each other, and play your childish little games, do so through email. I don’t know why the hell a couple of you feel the compelling need to act like a jackass with another member, and I really don’t give a damn. Grow up and act like adults. You guys know who I’m talking about, and the people know who they are. The constant little remarks and jabs get sick of reading. It’s bad enough that one has to wade through spam on these newsgroups, but then to have members flaming others at every little chance they get is stupid. If you really can’t reply to someone with at least a bit of civilness, don’t bother replying at all. Saves everyone else the time wasted on adding you to a killfile. To everyone else on here: Thanks for being adults. Tight lines.

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Good post and many others agree with you. Now *that’s* funny!

Good post and many others agree with you. Steve.

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Good post and many others agree with you. Now *that’s* funny! Good post and many others agree with you. Steve.

Now THAT’S funny! Wolfgang

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good post and many others agree with you. Now *that’s* funny! Good post and many others agree with you. Steve. Now THAT’S funny! Wolfgang

Good post and many others agree with you. R Et tu…?  (as in "e twei" not Brutus)

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BLOW ME! Op

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Good post and many others agree with you.

Now *that’s* funny!

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I’m a pretty new subscriber to this newsgroup, and I’ve already managed to have my fill of a couple characters on here. One guy posts something, and one or two others respond with only assanine, sophomoric…

Take off, you hoser. –Steve (oops, sorry. wrong McKenzie.)

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I’m a pretty new subscriber to this newsgroup,

Ah, well, let me warn ya about a few things.  One of the worst things a newbie can do is start explaining who is doing what wrong.  It just makes them look foolish…. and I’ve already managed to ave my fill of a couple characters on here.

Oh-oh…well, as you’re new and all, just tell Wolfgang which ones, and he’ll dispatch them for you.  He’s probably give you the dumbass discount if you ask stupidly enough….and I can tell you’re up to it… One guy posts something, and one or two others respond with only assanine, sophomoric bullshit.

Yeah, I can see what you mean, but while you may be "assanine," you’re not quite funny enough to be called sophomoric.  You nailed the bullshit, though!  And "one or two"?  Is some other dope gonna post another silly whine? If you want to flame each other, and play your childish little games, do so through email.

Aw, Da-a-a-d, lemmee tease the dumbass, please, Dad, please? I don’t know why the hell a couple of you feel the compelling need to act like a jackass with another member,

Oh?  Did you not mean to post this? and I really don’t give a damn.

Well, at least not after you spout off about it, right? Grow up and act like adults.

No, I don’t wanna!  So there! You guys know who I’m talking about, and the people know who they are.

Right, you guys, now come on and let’s hurry and join up with Marky’s gang before all the spaces fill up.  I, for one, would almost nearly mildly amused if I don’t get on board…. The constant little remarks and jabs get sick of reading.

Little "remarks" and "jabs" – are those your kids?  Well, whoever they are, keep the little rug rats at it – this is the information age, after all, and they need to be able to read. It’s bad enough that one has to wade through spam on these newsgroups, but then to have members flaming others at every little chance they get is stupid.

But so much fun – I’m really enjoying this….BTW, wanna buy some nudie pictures of Dan Rather on eBay? If you really can’t reply to someone with at least a bit of civilness, don’t bother replying at all.

DAMN!  NOW you tell me… Saves everyone else the time wasted on adding you to a killfile.

Well, at least you and…er…um…well, OK, you ought to have fun reading your own posts after you killfile everyone that posts something you probably won’t like…. To everyone else on here: Thanks for being adults. Tight lines.

And speaking of things being tight, how many foot-pounds of torque do you use on your ass? HTH R

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<snipped snippy whine To everyone else on here: Thanks for being adults. Tight lines.

Feel free to add me to your killfile, you’re already in mine.  Honestly.  If you don’t like what some people post, killfile them and don’t read them, don’t freakin’ whine.  Pathetic. –Your Buddy, Stan

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Mark…I was going to type something really compassionate and understanding…..even explain how I felt new…after only two or three years here…… …and then I thought about flaming – but I’m not really any good at it. I mean there are some pros here. I mean guys who do that sort of thin for a living…or maybe it’s just natural talent in some.. …but I think I’ll go camping. You see, I’m the resident lush and for that reason I don’t drink at home and I really want to have a couple of beers and watch this thread. It has a whole world of potential! john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a pretty new subscriber to this newsgroup, and I’ve already managed to have my fill of a couple characters on here. One guy posts something, and one or two others respond with only assanine, sophomoric bullshit. If you want to flame each other, and play your childish little games, do so through email. I don’t know why the hell a couple of you feel the compelling need to act like a jackass with another member, and I really don’t give a damn. Grow up and act like adults. You guys know who I’m talking about, and the people know who they are. The constant little remarks and jabs get sick of reading. It’s bad enough that one has to wade through spam on these newsgroups, but then to have members flaming others at every little chance they get is stupid. If you really can’t reply to someone with at least a bit of civilness, don’t bother replying at all. Saves everyone else the time wasted on adding you to a killfile. To everyone else on here: Thanks for being adults. Tight lines.

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Um…Welcome, I guess. Now, either get to love the place, or do yourself a favor and fuck off. Hope this helps? /daytripper (Thank you for your support) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a pretty new subscriber to this newsgroup, and I’ve already managed to have my fill of a couple characters on here. One guy posts something, and one or two others respond with only assanine, sophomoric bullshit. If you want to flame each other, and play your childish little games, do so through email. I don’t know why the hell a couple of you feel the compelling need to act like a jackass with another member, and I really don’t give a damn. Grow up and act like adults. You guys know who I’m talking about, and the people know who they are. The constant little remarks and jabs get sick of reading. It’s bad enough that one has to wade through spam on these newsgroups, but then to have members flaming others at every little chance they get is stupid. If you really can’t reply to someone with at least a bit of civilness, don’t bother replying at all. Saves everyone else the time wasted on adding you to a killfile. To everyone else on here: Thanks for being adults. Tight lines.

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I’m a pretty new subscriber to this newsgroup, and I’ve already managed to have my fill of a couple characters on here. One guy posts something, and one or two others respond with only assanine, sophomoric bullshit. If you want to flame each other, and play your childish little games, do so through email. I don’t know why the hell a couple of you feel the compelling need to act like a jackass with another member, and I really don’t give a damn. Grow up and act like adults. You guys know who I’m talking about, and the people know who they are. The constant little remarks and jabs get sick of reading. It’s bad enough that one has to wade through spam on these newsgroups, but then to have members flaming others at every little chance they get is stupid. If you really can’t reply to someone with at least a bit of civilness, don’t bother replying at all. Saves everyone else the time wasted on adding you to a killfile. To everyone else on here: Thanks for being adults. Tight lines.

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blah, blah, blah

Heh, heh.  Ordinarily I would be delighted to fire the opening salvo, but there are a few relative newcomers who have yet to get first crack at one of these. Wolfgang who never tires of experiments in andragogy

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Question:

check out www.walleyecentral.com and use the message board and chat room……all kinds of help – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just started fishing from a boat and have a few questions. 1. How do you tell how deep your line is?  If the fish finder says that the fish are at 40 feet how do you know when your line is forty feet down? 2. What is a reasonable dept to fish without going to downriggers. 3. What are planner boards for?  How do you rig them? Thanks

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We can get lines down in excess of 60 feet without the use of down riggers. The advantage of down riggers is you will have a short lead and it will take less time to bring in the fish and reset. The disadvantage to down riggers is for fish like Lake erie walleye they tend to shy away unless they are down deep because the boat traffic spooks the fish. The other disadvantage is cost. Presently we are down around 50 feet using ripcord line and 0 dispel on planar boards and you can add weight if you would like to keep leads under 200 feet. You can also try 1 dipseys and they will go to 50 feet on mono and over 70 on rip cord or braided wire. The reason we use planar boards is so we can get lines away from the boat into water where the fish have not been spooked. The other advantage is you can run upto 12 poles off the planar boards without tangling. That is enough for upto 6 people. When the weather gets rough you have to run less but you can run regular dipseys . We typically run 8 planar boards an 6 dipseys when the fish are deep and when the fish are high we run 10 planar boards and 4 dipseys. Essentially planar boards are two boards connected together so when attached to a line at front of boat several feet above the water they will pull to side of boat. this allows you to let lines out back and then attach the lines to a planar clip which is typically an alligator clip with rubber pads or you can use a shower curtain and rubber bands and wrap the rubber band around the line. The secret is to get the proper rubber band. The first couple times by some from Patco but then you can go to office supply store and buy rubber bands much less expensive in bulk. When you attach the line to the clip and to the planar board line as you let additional line out it will slide down the board line when it is just above the water stop it and then set the next line leave a 20 -30 foot space in between and then when the fish hits it will swing to back of the boat. If you use a plug or diving device like a jet dive you have to release the lure by reeling don until the line is taught and slap the handle of the pole the shock will break the rubber band if you are using ripcord or wire line with mono it is more difficult because mono tends to stretch. Then let line swing to back of boat to avoid tangles and reel in. if you are running 0 dipseys off the planar boards you must release the line from the board the same way but then real the slack and release the dipsey with a firm tug and then real right away. there are different techniues for different things you use. I hope this helps. Captain Bryce Seymour Fishing has been good to very good. The fish are moving daily in past few weeks they have moved from 12 miles out into 6 miles out in one day after a storm but then as water settled down they started moving out again. Within a few days they were at 12 miles out. The main school is off of Geneva and slightly east about 20 miles out. The captains out of Fairport have another school out west of Fairport so you can see there is not just one place to fish but most people are going off shore. I main problem has been a lot of sheep head being caught with the walleye which lowers the catches. The Fairport captains are catching between 20-40 fish but would have more if they could not have to reset lines for sheep head so often. Similar numbers out of Geneva. Watermelon is a hot color and the Geneva captains tend to use more worm harnesses while the Fairport tends to use spoons as much as possible. I have also heard of a man who was taking a floating j plug putting it on his down rigger and sending it to the bottom and then release the j-plug and about half the time he would catch a nice walleye while the plug was rising to the surface. The most prominent methods have been using 0 dipseys off ripcord off the boards. Set one side at lets say 140 , 160, 180, 200 and the other at the same but put an ounce of weight in front if you see the weighted side working more than the non weighted side then look at adding an ounce or two of weight. The advantage of this technique over wire line is you can keep the leads under 200 feet so you can catch the fish and reset faster than if your setting a line back 320 feet on wire. Ripcord is a little more forgiving than wire when raping on planar boards but can still be a nuisance if you get a good tangle. Captain Bryce Seymour http://www.chartercaptain.com/hooker/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just started fishing from a boat and have a few questions. 1. How do you tell how deep your line is?  If the fish finder says that the fish are at 40 feet how do you know when your line is forty feet down? 2. What is a reasonable dept to fish without going to downriggers. 3. What are planner boards for?  How do you rig them? Thanks

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I have just started fishing from a boat and have a few questions. 1. How do you tell how deep your line is?  If the fish finder says that the fish are at 40 feet how do you know when your line is forty feet down? 2. What is a reasonable dept to fish without going to downriggers.   3. What are planner boards for?  How do you rig them? Thanks

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    Planner boards float on the surface of the water and pull your lure and line out to the side of the boat like a kite in the wind. Your lure then trails behind the planer board and swims at the depth that it was designed for and depending on it’s speed in the water, length of line out and size of the line. Instructions as how to rig them up are included with the boards.     There are devices that can be added directly to your line that will dive towards the bottom (pink lady is one). There depth depends on their size, weight, speed, type lure used, length of line used for trolling and size of the line.     If you want to troll deep without a downrigger, you can use lead core line. Use the 17 lb lead core line. The stronger lead core line has the same amount of lead in it but more nylon thread so though it is stronger (about 30 lbs) it will not sink as well. Or use steel line. I found that I could get down to about 70 feet deep with steel line without using heavy weights. Keep a record of all the setups you use when trolling and when you feel that you touch bottom, check the sonar for the depth, check your trolling speed and type of equipement used etc and mark it all down in a note book. The next time you want to fish at that particular depth with that particular lure setup you will know what to do. This is how old time experienced trollers knew where their lure was when fishing. Add the fact that they memorized the bottom structure, after a few years of snagging bottom, catching fish and watching the successful fishermen for tips, helped in their fishing success.     So if you want to fish at 40 feet, rig up a line, troll over a depth of 40 feet and see what you have to do to touch bottom. Note what you did and then use the same technique the next time you see fish suspended at 40 feet.     Becoming a good troller is more difficult and takes longer than becoming a good fly fisherman. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just started fishing from a boat and have a few questions. 1. How do you tell how deep your line is?  If the fish finder says that the fish are at 40 feet how do you know when your line is forty feet down? 2. What is a reasonable dept to fish without going to downriggers. 3. What are planner boards for?  How do you rig them? Thanks

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Question:

Does any one know how the dry conditions in Alaska is affecting the fishing?  I am planning a trip this month to Fairbanks, and need to know if it will be worth fishing.  Also, any good home pages about Alaska fishing? David L. Ransom ‘94 "Railwacker" ‘83 Nighthawk 650,       ‘50 Chevy 1/2 ton http://http.tamu.edu:8000/~daver/dave.html

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Does any one know how the dry conditions in Alaska is affecting the fishing?  I am planning a trip this month to Fairbanks, and need to know if it will be worth fishing.  Also, any good home pages about Alaska fishing? David L. Ransom ‘94 "Railwacker" ‘83 Nighthawk 650,       ‘50 Chevy 1/2 ton http://http.tamu.edu:8000/~daver/dave.html

I just came back from a week in the Bristol Bay area.  The water level is down as much as 5′ in some of the lake systems from normal this time of year.  It depends on where you go and what feeds the drainage you are in.  If the drainage is mainly yearly snow melt then the water will be down.  If the source is glacial then the water level might be up because of the early warm weather we’ve had. All in all, and in most areas, the fishing will probably not suffer this year.  It may affect pink salmon runs and spawning because they use small steams that could be impassable this year.  The pot hole country that I flew over last week looked just slightlly lower that normal, (less than a foot.) I’d say go for it, when in doubt take your gear.  You can do other tourist stuff just as easy with your fly rod in the hotel room if the fishing is not good. R. Wood in Alaska

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Philip: ROFF is not a binaries group.  If you have pictures to share, post a text-only message to ROFF alerting people to the pictures and post the actual pictures to alt.binaries.pictures.fishing. Many news servers will strip the picture out automatically if you try to post to ROFF, so folks may never see what you intended them to.  Other than that, posting to ABPF will save you from people who have slow connections that get clogged by a picture you posted, even though you had the best of intentions.  Doing otherwise can be the newsgroup equivalent of slashing open major blood vessels before jumping into the shark tank at the aquarium. Zippy —< This article was posted through www.newzpig.com —

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Hi Philip, Nice picture. That would look great blown up and framed on your wall. It reminded me of a float trip I once tool in AK. Thanks. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop http://www.kiene.com 800/4000FLY USA toll free

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks to everyone on the board who offered advice on fly patterns and how to fish for salmon in Alaska.  It paid off.  We caught many salmon (3 species in five days).  Plus, we got into some very aggressive Dollies. Thanks….

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If one were to move to Alaksa, where would the optimum location be.  Heres the factors to consider,  occupation: Science teacher,  type of fish wanted: Salmon/trout (duh), uncrowded fishing (if possible anymore), close enough to a larger town/city to occupy my wife for a day (or two) here and there.

Sounds like you want to live in Wasilla – its north of Anchorage 50 miles or so. Lots of rivers, lakes and wide open spaces. Wasilla has just enough of a population for schools and such. I can’t stand the place myself, but lots of people love it there – the fishing is first class however. Hans – Juneau, AK

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If one were to move to Alaksa, where would the optimum location be.  Heres the factors to consider,  occupation: Science teacher,  type of fish wanted: Salmon/trout (duh), uncrowded fishing (if possible anymore), close enough to a larger town/city to occupy my wife for a day (or two) here and there.

Response:

what flies and rods are good for the trout speices there?  When is the best time of the year to go?  Thanks for your time

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what flies and rods are good for the trout speices there?  When is the best time of the year to go?  Thanks for your time

   The question is a little vague to get much in the way of usefull response. Keep in mind that Alaska is about 20% as large as the entire Lower 48 so a lot depends on where in Alaska you’re talking about. There’s plenty of areas in Alaska that don’t have any trout. Are you talking about fishing on the road system or in the bush?    I fish some rivers that only have fish in them for 4-6 weeks a year and others that fish well all season long. There are some rivers that I like to fish in June and others that I want to be on in September. There is no best time of year; it depends on what you want to do and how you want to fish. Trout season opens in Southwest and Southcentral Alaska from early to mid-June. After September weather becomes iffy and a lot depends on how early winter sets in. Flies and equipment depend on when and where you’re going.

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Question:

I’d like to cast my vote for stronger enforcement of the anti-snagging laws.  It is still going on, although no weighted treble hooks are in evidence.   Personally, I have all kinds of cute ideas for laws that would make lifting ineffective, but without enforcement, such laws would be meaningless.  Personally, I’ve spent four days on the Salmon River this year and have yet to see any DEC enforcement, or hear of any arrests. I’ve seen plenty of lifting going on, even in the flyfishing sections of the River. I’d also like to see better and more "real-time" reporting of river conditions.  A bad report might keep me from coming up on a given day, but no accurate reporting whatsoever leaves me with a level of risk, given my 5 hour drive to get to the River.  It might be good if someone were to post the current Niagara Mohawk release reports somewhere.  I’d like to see Jim Rusher at Whittakers do this, since he seems to have the best "river-oriented" site, but I understand that the cost of Niagara Mohawk’s 900 number could get a bit out of control…maybe a Chamber of Commerce opportunity lies in here. Bob Davis

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writes: Bob,

    Thanks for your comments. The C of C would be hard pressed to fund the purchase of a subscription to the Waterline # and I’m also sure that Waterline as a business would be less than pleased. You’r right though, timely water level conditions are of the utmost importance.     I’d be happy to share any info I have on conditions, etc. as I look out my back window at the river.     Today, the rains continued resulting in continued big water. My folks landed two rainbows in the upper fly zone, saw lots of fish in Trout Brook and saw plenty of snagging (unfortunately) in Oswego.     Regards,     Bill — Bill Fling                     Tel. (315) 298-3044 SALMON RIVER ANGLERS LODGE     FAX  (315) 298-2619 P.O. Box 353                   Rt. 13, Rome Road Pulaski, NY 13142-0353   ‘SALMON RIVER/LAKE ONTARIO SPORTFISHING REPORTS’             ‘http://www.salmon-river.com’

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I saw game wardens a few times this year on the river but they never seem to wander far from the parking areas.On the oswego river you see more wardens because it is a very easily accessable place to fish.They arent any more thrilled about going to work than average person so they really arent going to walk all that far to see if people are lifting farther up the river or not.I have seen many river guides lift fish and hand the rod right to there clients and of course the lifted fish was kept.Until we fisherman lose the "its going to die after spawning anyways"attitude the snagging will never stop.Maybe we should start a donate a roper program to help out the dec..

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Bill — Because NYS has finally banned snagging, I have started to fish the Salmon River, and therefore patronize local restaurants, tackle shops, etc. In my six visits so far this year, I have not seen any evidence of law enforcement. I have, however, noticed a lot of anglers who have foul-hooked chinooks and have been very negligent in their releases. Many do not bother to revive fish after they remove their hooks. In my opinion, more law enforcement and angler education is needed to help the Salmon River become a truly great fishery. Moreover, the Chamber might want to explore ways to help clean the River banks and trails from the mess of liter and old line. Such an effort would greatly enhance the Salmon River’s image and popularity among influential anglers. Lastly, the DEC should be given alot of credit for finally making a stand against snagging/lifting. Showing appreciation and support to them would probably go a long way in helping the future of the Salmon River and the people who make a living from it. PS: I refuse to patronize any establishment in the Pulaski-area that has fought against the ban on snagging (MacDonald’s, etc.). Bob Elliott, Rochester, NY – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At its next meeting in late November, the Pulaski/Eastern Shore Chamber of Commerce will be discussing the law enforcement detail here on the Salmon River. As president, I’d be interested in hearing about any FIRST HAND experiences you may have had this year. I’ll use your contributions as a springboard to open discussion. Thanks in advance, Bill — Bill Fling                     Tel. (315) 298-3044 SALMON RIVER ANGLERS LODGE     FAX  (315) 298-2619 P.O. Box 353                   Rt. 13, Rome Road Pulaski, NY 13142-0353   ‘SALMON RIVER/LAKE ONTARIO SPORTFISHING REPORTS’             ‘http://www.salmon-river.com’

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At its next meeting in late November, the Pulaski/Eastern Shore Chamber of Commerce will be discussing the law enforcement detail here on the Salmon River. As president, I’d be interested in hearing about any FIRST HAND experiences you may have had this year. I’ll use your contributions as a springboard to open discussion. Thanks in advance, Bill — Bill Fling                     Tel. (315) 298-3044 SALMON RIVER ANGLERS LODGE     FAX  (315) 298-2619 P.O. Box 353                   Rt. 13, Rome Road Pulaski, NY 13142-0353   ‘SALMON RIVER/LAKE ONTARIO SPORTFISHING REPORTS’             ‘http://www.salmon-river.com’

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Question:

I recently broke the fly rod that I grew up fishing – an 8 ft 8 wt fiberglass Shakespeare.  I need to replace it and want a rod that I will not "out grow".  I have considered an L.L. Bean guide series 9 ft, 7 or 8 wt at about $200 with a lifetime unconditional guarantee.  I also saw a 9 ft 8 wt Loomis IMX recently for $275 on a close-out.  The Loomis cast very nicely.  I have not felt the Bean rod but have always been very happy with their products. Any advice would be appreciated.  How much better is the Loomis & is it worth the extra money?  Has anyone used the Bean rod? I grew up fishing for pickerel and bass in Delaware, but I primarily fish for Steelhead and smallmouth bass since moving to California and would like to do some Shad fishing.

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Check out the St. Croix Products I Think For your money they rate up their with poles hundreds of $ more. — Larry D. Madison Life without Black would surely make White blind You. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently broke the fly rod that I grew up fishing – an 8 ft 8 wt fiberglass Shakespeare.  I need to replace it and want a rod that I will not "out grow".  I have considered an L.L. Bean guide series 9 ft, 7 or 8 wt at about $200 with a lifetime unconditional guarantee.  I also saw a 9 ft 8 wt Loomis IMX recently for $275 on a close-out.  The Loomis cast very nicely.  I have not felt the Bean rod but have always been very happy with their products. Any advice would be appreciated.  How much better is the Loomis & is it worth the extra money?  Has anyone used the Bean rod? I grew up fishing for pickerel and bass in Delaware, but I primarily fish for Steelhead and smallmouth bass since moving to California and would like to do some Shad fishing.

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Question:

Just returned from two days fishing.  A friend and I had planned to hit Mossy Creek and the Jackson River tailwater.  We stopped in at Murray’s fly shop in Edinburg…Harry said Mossy Creek only produced a single trout on a recent outing there.  We asked him about the Jackson, and he said "If I live a thousand years I’d be happy if I never fished the Jackson River again." Harry suggested we go after smallmouth on the North Fork of the Shenandoah, an alternative we eagerly accepted.  We left Murray’s shop (each $75 poorer!) and headed for the North Fork, north of Edinburg, where we found the water crystal-clear and at moderate levels. But we fished it hard for two hours and came up empty handed…not even a trace of fish anywhere. So we decided to head northwest to the North Branch of the Potomac and the Savage Rivers.  When we arrived, we found the water in both rivers high and off-color. We tried camping at the USAC Jennings-Randolph Lake campground, but found the front gate locked at only 9:30pm!  Disgruntled, we drove down to the North Branch whitewater put-in and camped there, in spite of the "No Camping" signs everywhere.  (We had no problems…but this was also Thursday night.)  (Lesson: get to the USAC camground early.) The next morning we were up at 6 and on the water by 7.  We fished the North Branch for about an hour right at the put-in area (above the C&R section) and only caught a single 10" rainbow on a Montana nymph. The water wasn’t muddy…but it wasn’t clear, either. Somewhere in between.  Flow must have been in the 400-600cfs range. Then we drove/hiked down to the C&R section and fished hard for a couple of hours around the concrete railroad abutment on the right bank.  No fish…not a trace of them anywhere.  The water was too high to wade to the left side (though I tried several times and almost got washed away!) We left the North Branch, and drove to the first brisdge on the Savage and fished it for an hour or so.  Also nothing.   Finally, we decided to head for the small streams of Frederick County around Thurmont, where we ended up having an okay few hours of fishing on Owens Creek. (Four 10-11" browns caught.)  Owens was low and clear, and the browns jumped on my size 12 stimulator like gangbusters. All in all, it was fun rambling around for two days…but the fishing was lousy.  I’m wondering now if we would have had better luck at Mossy Creek and the Jackson River tailwater.  Any thoughts? Scott Wilkinson Bethesda, MD

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I don’t quite understand your friend’s reluctance to fish the Jackson River in Virginia.  You did mention the tail- waters and perhaps that is his problem.  Most of the tail waters below Carthright Dam is private property.  That which is public waters is heavily fished.  However, there are many stretches of the Jackson that are beautiful and productive *but* are difficult to reach — requiring a reasonable and not too difficult hike to get there.  Many times the problem is the reluctance of someone to hike in to the better areas. The Jackson is a good fishery.   Mossy Creek is on private land requiring fishing from the shore (no wading).  It is a small spring creek requiring patience familiarity, and some luck.  Given that it can be quite rewarding — browns at 20 inches. Fishing is not all about catching fish, at least for me.  It is about a learning experience, wonderful scenery, and a great *overall* experience.  With patience, fishing the Jackson (in the right place) and Mossy Creek can be very rewarding.

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Question:

writes: The  Herter’s catalog was the best reading material while siiting on the John  I have found. I still have some of his instruction manuals; i.e. How to stay  married to a bitch, The bull cookbook, The Herter’s guide manual and The  Herter’s Book of Fly and Lure Construction.. Also I have a friend who is still using a #7 vise and a Herter’s Bamboo Planing Jig. Too bad they went out of business. Luck. Ja

I was talking with my dad about a need for a good fishing catalog and he is said that he’s still disappointed that he can’t get a new Herter’s Catalog. "…can’t believe they went out of business. The Netcraft Catalog is about the closest thing left!" Don

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: The  Herter’s catalog was the best reading material while siiting on the : John  I have found. I still have some of his instruction manuals; i.e. How : to stay  married to a bitch, The bull cookbook, The Herter’s guide manual : and The  Herter’s Book of Fly and Lure Construction.. Also I have a friend : who is still using a #7 vise and a Herter’s Bamboo Planing Jig. Too bad : they went out of business. Luck. Jack    I still have my parka purchased from them in 1972. The ad used to    make the sale was terrific – showed a photo of Dr so and so using    Herter’s prime northern goose down parka on his Arctic expedition.    BTW, the parka is great.    I miss them …….

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As I understand it, Herter’s went out of business because they were allegedly involved in some "criminal activity." Problems with IRS and ATF. Say it aint So, George. –Doug Easton Tight Lines and Empty Creels

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I received e-mail that stated Herter’s catalogue can be obtained by calling 800-654-3825. I do not know whether this is a new company or what but I intend to call the number and see. Prehaps ur dad is interested. Stretched leaders. Jack.

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I am planning to get up to the Salmon River in NY in the next few days and I am wondering what conditions are like up there now.  Any Browns or Steelhead in the river?  Water levels – I heard it was high…has it dropped any?  I’d really appreciate an E-Mail or a posting.

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hell i even bought skis from that catalog…it was great fun to leaf thru…. craig

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Bob, Check out the following URL for exellent up to date info: http://www.maine.com:80/fish-ny/ Jim Walker will help you out with very near term conditions if you ask nicely. (and mail him 10 bucks) Right Jim? Bill Althoff

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Just a curiosity… Who all out there cut their fly tying teeth on George Leonard Herter’s big thick yellow book (you know the one…It’s where geo. said he invented all the fly patterns currently in use…:)) and if you did, which of the following statements rings more true with you: a) George’s book set me back twenty years in my growth as a fly tyer… b) This was the best book of it’s day on the subject, and got me off to a good start… Or feel free to fall in the middle somewhere with your own statement… An informal survey..

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The  Herter’s catalog was the best reading material while siiting on the John  I have found. I still have some of his instruction manuals; i.e. How to stay  married to a bitch, The bull cookbook, The Herter’s guide manual and The  Herter’s Book of Fly and Lure Construction.. Also I have a friend who is still using a #7 vise and a Herter’s Bamboo Planing Jig. Too bad they went out of business. Luck. Jack

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The  Herter’s catalog was the best reading material while siiting on the John  I have found. I still have some of his instruction manuals; i.e. How to stay  married to a bitch, The bull cookbook, The Herter’s guide manual and The  Herter’s Book of Fly and Lure Construction.. Also I have a friend who is still using a #7 vise and a Herter’s Bamboo Planing Jig. Too bad they went out of business. Luck. Jack Not too many folks could disagree with your first statement Jack, but I can disagree with your second one!!  Just ordered a catalog last week from their 800 number!!!!  What was that? You sure wish that guy woulda’ posted the damn number…..okay, Jack….here it is!!!                         800-654-3825 Now keep in mind, your proctologist will tell you that it’s not good to spend too much time sitting on the commode reading, you should just take care of business and move on……well F**K HIM!!! If he’s got time to meddle in other peoples business, he’s not spendin’ enuff time fishin" !!!!! Larry #:)#

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Question:

I was just talking to someone else about these little buggers.  In my local the most popular pattern is the bastardized Wooley B, the Egg Sucking Leach.  Outside of it’s outstanding name, and the fact no one has ever seen a leach with an egg in it’s maw, it has caught on and works fabulously for salmon, big char and rainbows in sizes 8 to 2 tied on streamer hooks.  During a long winter of giving tying classes and tying too many flys, I tied one on a 96840 #12.  It looked so good I tied a coulple of dozen before all the ice was off the first lake I was wondering why I never though to do it before.  Give this a try.

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The strangest pattern I’ve seen imitated pellet fish food.  Great on stocked streams on opening day. -Bob

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 . . . I occasionally come across an empty corn can left along the banks. It is apparently one of the rednecks’ favorite baits.  Libby’s brand is the standard. I’ve never seen any other brand.

        Actually, I prefer Nibblets…                 T O D D . . .

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When I was a kid,my fishing buddy inherited his grandfather’s fly rods and flies.  In one of the fly boxes were 4 quarter inch long eigth inch dowels tied on a #12.  They were labelled as opening day and post stocking "flies".  Apparently they looked just like the hatchery pellets the stockies were fed.  Maybe that’s what the cigarette butts look like too. Crashjibe

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 . . . I occasionally come across an empty corn can left along the banks. It is apparently one of the rednecks’ favorite baits.  Libby’s brand is the standard. I’ve never seen any other brand.         Actually, I prefer Nibblets…                 T O D D . . .

Nibblets seems to be the favorite on the Clinch in TN too! (what an exciting topic of conversation  :*D)   A sunny day,      a box of midges,         and a wandering stream…   Man, this MUST be heaven!   <    Steve Kulpa    <<

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The most insane pattern I’ve come accross is a cigarette butt imitation.  A friend of mine tied one after occasionally comming accross them in trout stomachs.  I’m not sure if trout take this as a caddis case or whether they are nicotine junkies, but i’ve seen him catch a few fish on it too.   Cheers Olaf

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I need to go fishing! I think I am going out of my mind. I have been tying flys for the past month now, but I think I started to early with it. Tying is starting to make things worse because now I want to go out and use them. I live in CA and river trout season doesn’t start until the saturday before may. Also there has been a lot of snow in the mountains here and it isn’t going to clear up for a long time. Does anyone know how to overcome the insanity? Because of all the time I have had tying I played around with some different patterens and I invented my own. It is a cross between a stonefly Nymph and a damselfly Nymph. It is tyed on a size 8 hook with black thread and has a gold bead head. Tail: bunch of black hackle tips. Body: olive dubing. Rib: thin red copper wire. Thorax: bronze peacock herls tyed larger than the bead. Hackle: before the peacock put three or four turns of black cock hackle behind the bead. Trim the hackle so they point down, then tie in the peacock. I call this pattern the bead head green thing. I had no particular bug in mind when I tyed it but I think it might work. Please give me some input on it. If you can go fishing now, tie one up and give it a try, then  tell me how it worked. TimFLYFISH P.S. If you have any Patterns of your own I would like to give them a try.

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regarding insane patterns. Iwas in a fly shop in Asheville, NC called Hunter Banks one day last year shooting the breeze, and the subject of ridiculous patterns came up. The owner, with a twinkle in his eye, pulled out his latest pattern: The Corn Fly. It is tied with yellow poly and looks just like a kernal of Libby’s finest. Back in the blue ridge mountains, even on well known FF only waters, I occasionally come across an empty corn can left along the banks. It is apparently one of the rednecks’ favorite baits.  Libby’s brand is the standard. I’ve never seen any other brand. The fly, incidentally, was tied as a joke. They don’t sell them.  People think egg flies, san juan worms, etc are flies, so what the hell, its not much of a stretch, I guess. Dale Owens

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