Question:
I very much doubt you could break an 8lb tippet with a 5wt rod without either seriously damaging the rod or pointing the rod straight at the fish. The secret of all fishing is to use balanced tackle, that way you can use your tackle to it’s maximum without running the risk of damaging it. — Regards Peter Kay (Remove "nospam" to email) :The guy is full of unmitigated bull hooie. The tippet is the defining :element. If you can break the tippet with the rod, and the tippet is
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How tightly do you set your drag? If you point your rod tip towards the fish and set the drag higher than when fishing with a 4 lb tippet then sure you will definitely apply more pressure. Your drag setting and how you hold the rod while fighting fish will determine the answer to your question. My guess is that you’ve got the drag setting at less than 4 lbs (would you dare jiggle a 1/2 gallon carton of milk from the end of your 6 wt rod?). So the guy at the shop is probably right.
Sorry Mu, You’re wrong, and so is the guy in the shop. Drag has nothing to do with it, the breaking strength of the tippet and how much pressure you can put to the fish as a result of that breaking strength is the question here The size of the rod only matters in regards to the weight of the line when casting and in your desire to keep that rod intact when playing a fish. If you are using 4 lb. tippet on an 8 wt. rod there is no way you can apply as much pressure on the fish than you can with an equivalent length rod in 6 wt. and 8 lb. tippet. The only reason that it would be better for the fish to use a 4 lb. tippet is that the fish will probably break off sooner and recover faster. Any steelhead worth half his salt would destroy a 4 lb. tippet in seconds. If the angler was very skilled he would be able to baby that fish in eventually, but at what price? The fish will be mortally exhausted from a half hour struggle to the beach. Chances of recovery of this fish is poor. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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I thought a conundrum was what you wore for safe sex!!
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<< I thought a conundrum was what you wore for safe sex!! Nope, that’s a carborundrum. A conundrum is is a kind of Arabian boss.
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You are thinking of a condominium. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO http://users.ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought a conundrum was what you wore for safe sex!!
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The rod wt does make a difference. If you are fighting a 2lb trout with say 6x tippet you are more likely to land the fish with a 4wt rod then a 6wt rod. The 4wt is more giving at any given drag setting and will absorb the shock of the fishes fight. The more severe the struggle the more a lighter rod helps. I’ve seen newby fishermen (or bass fishermen new to flyfishing) loose lots of fish with a 6wt rod. I give them my 4 wt and they land the fish. So the shock absorption is for both ends of the rod (fish and fisherman’s action.) So you have to set the drag down for a stiffer rod given the same fish and tippet. Few fish are lost just due to a slow steady pull of a fish where the drag setting only is the consideration, but rather to a fish jerking the line and adding to the pull. I guess said in another way a 2 lb weight is less likely to break a tippet then a 2 lb fish since one is a dynamic force that exceeds a 2lb pull. Sorry Mu, You’re wrong, and so is the guy in the shop. Drag has nothing to do with it, the breaking strength of the tippet and how much pressure you can put to the fish as a result of that breaking strength is the question here The size of the rod only matters in regards to the weight of the line when casting and in your desire to keep that rod intact when playing a fish. If you are using 4 lb. tippet on an 8 wt. rod there is no way you can apply as much pressure on the fish than you can with an equivalent length rod in 6 wt. and 8 lb. tippet. The only reason that it would be better for the fish to use a 4 lb. tippet is that the fish will probably break off sooner and recover faster. Any steelhead worth half his salt would destroy a 4 lb. tippet in seconds. If the angler was very skilled he would be able to baby that fish in eventually, but at what price? The fish will be mortally exhausted from a half hour struggle to the beach. Chances of recovery of this fish is poor.
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I think anyone who actually believes that an 8-weight rod can’t put more pressure on a fish than a 6-weight rod has never caught fish big enough to show them the difference. Take the two rods out striper fishing this spring with a ten-pound tippet on each and you’ll be immediately enlightened. I can’t believe this thread has gone on so long. Bob Scott
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To some extent it doesn’t matter, although it depends how good a fisherman you are. The best way to put max pressure on a fish is to point the rod directly at the fish; but then it doesn’t matter what the rod weight is! To put the least pressure on a fish, you hold the rod vertical, at which angle a 15 foot 10 weight only puts about two pound pull on a fish. You can demonstrate this with a spring balance, although this will give a higher reading than expected – remember that the fish can’t exactly dig its heels in. Any angle below 45 degrees begins to put a fish under pressure, and the stiffness of the rod and the efficiency of the reel drag will begin to count. However, if the fish is a long way out, and a deal of line is drowned, then other factors are in play which alter your ability to exert pressure. I have seen a guide stop a bonefish in its tracks using an eight pound tippet simply by pointing the rod directly at the fish. I have seen the same done with a chinook. Mind, it is dull compared to playing them… Andrew Andrew N. Herd Associate Editor, Waterlog Magazine http://www.demon.co.uk/medlarpress/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastized for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told thet I shold be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, becauseI have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutly no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statment on his part true? Andrew
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pressure on a fish than a 6-weight rod has never caught fish big enough to show them the difference.
is a 20 pound sleelhead big enough? or how about a thirty pound plus chinook? Take the two rods out striper fishing this spring with a ten-pound tippet on each and you’ll be immediately enlightened.
Ten pound tippet is ten pounds breaking strength, with a 6 or an 8 it is still ten pounds. If I put enough pressure on a tippet to break the tippet that is ten pounds, be it with a six or eight that is irrelevant. The big difference is that it is easier to cast the big flies a longer distance. I can’t believe this thread has gone on so long.
That’s an invitation to a flame war 
Bob Scott
Andrew McFarland
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The way that I look at this is that, like Andrew said, ten puonds is ten pounds. One could land a 1500 pound marlin on a 4 wt (heavy leader, naturally) if he had around 2000 yards of backing. Any fish can be landed on any wieght. Just with one rod, the fish might be exhausted and another rod would make the fight last 15 seconds. A six weight is fine. Bryce
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I think anyone who actually believes that an 8-weight rod can’t put more pressure on a fish than a 6-weight rod has never caught fish big enough to show them the difference. <SNIP Bob Scott
YES! And why the hell one would confuse the issue by forcing the stronger rod to have lighter tippet is beyond me. Apples to apples. 8wt is stiffer than 6wt. 8wt allows the possibility of putting more pressure on a fish than 6wt. It is that simple. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA. USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"
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Ten pound tippet is ten pounds breaking strength, with a 6 or an 8 it is still ten pounds. If I put enough pressure on a tippet to break the tippet that is ten pounds, be it with a six or eight that is irrelevant. I can’t believe this thread has gone on so long. That’s an invitation to a flame war Andrew McFarland
Not an invitation to a flame war at all. Here’s the deal: naturally, the tippet strength is the limiting factor of the TOTAL AMOUNT of pressure you can put on the fish, regardless of rod weight rating. But it’s not that simple. The rod is applying pressure to the fish anytime it is flexed against him, whether the fish is moving away or not. The pressure varies with the amount of flex put in the rod, angle the rod is held, etc. This pressure comes from the rod’s desire to maintain its original, straight shape. Since it takes more pressure to bend a similar-length 8-weight rod than a 6-weight rod, to the same arc, the heavier rod exerts more pressure on the fish as it tries to straighten… even when the fish isn’t moving, and regardless of the tippet strength or drag setting. Follow me? You’ve got to try it for yourself. Like I said, take the two sized rods, set the drags the same with a scale, and fight a few big fish. The heavier rod will whip them quicker. The relentless pull of a flexed rod really tires the fish. When the fish runs, the drag pressure dogs him. But when he’s not running away, the pressure of the rod trying to straighten is what is pulling on him. A heavier rod pulls harder. Bob Scott
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think anyone who actually believes that an 8-weight rod can’t put more pressure on a fish than a 6-weight rod has never caught fish big enough to show them the difference. Take the two rods out striper fishing this spring with a ten-pound tippet on each and you’ll be immediately enlightened. I can’t believe this thread has gone on so long. Bob Scott This is sooo true. The fish has to work much harder against an 8 wt rod. –tony
You all want to pass some of that stuff yer smokin’? I’ve caught plenty of fish in the size range to be able to tell the difference – Silvers, steelhead, chums. My six weight Sage can break a fish off on undamaged climax 2x tippet (about 10lb test), if held right on a strong enough fish. My 8 wgt can break heavier tippet, so what. With 2x tippet, it simply cannot pull harder than the six weight, since both are capable of breaking the line. This is explained by an obscure branch of science known as physics. What you all are saying is the equivalent of saying that a pickup can tow more than a bicycle, even though they are both connected to the trailer by 8 lb test. Replace the connection with a log chain, and you’re correct. However, log chain is fairly poor in it’s energy transference to the fly. Tough to tie a clinch knot, as well. In the range of tippets that the fellow is talking about, with the rods he is talking about, the six weight is fine for steelhead. I had ample opportunity to experiment in this area two years ago when I broke my 8 weight on a salmon, and had to finish the trip catching salmon with the six weight. After the trip, came back and was fishing sea run cutts. Hooked a big one, and still had the Alaska strike instinct (rear back hard, pull hard with the line hand). Popped the fly in one of the biggest cutthroats I’ve ever seen, who entertained me and my buddy with three jumps down stream, fly still in his jaw. 3x tippet, good knots, 6 wgt. I know whereof I speak… — Andrew Brunette
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The 6wt rod I am referring to is a Sage 690 sp+ that is a stiff rod, I can put LOTS of pressure on a fish. I have yet to meet a steelie that the rod couldn’t handle, I keep a short line and fight the fish using angles. In other words, I keep the rod in opposite to the direction of movement of the fish, to the side. I find that after watching the other guys up here use their 8wts for steelies they don’t put anywhere near the amount of pressure that I do. they mostly use 6lb tippet, some times going down to 4lb, I never use anything less than 8lb. If that prevents me from catching fish so be it, but if it makes the difference between me catching fish and then over playing them then I will not do that. I have out fished guys using 8wts with 4 lb and even float fishermen. I feel that I can put the coals on just as much with those guys. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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My six weight Sage can break a fish off on undamaged climax 2x tippet (about 10lb test), if held right on a strong enough fish. My 8 wgt can break heavier tippet, so what. With 2x tippet, it simply cannot pull harder than the six weight, since both are capable of breaking the line. This is explained by an obscure branch of science known as physics.
…that you obviously have no grasp of. You didn’t read or comprehend my post. And, by the way, my two-weight can break an undamaged 10lb. tippet, too, if "held right." You are not breaking that tippet with rod pressure. If your six weight can lift ten pounds, I’ll eat my eight and nine weight rods. Like the other guy said, go ahead and put a ten-pound weight on the floor, put some heavy tippet on your miracle six-weight, get out your warranty card, and try to lift it up. I know you won’t try it. An eight-weight will lift more weight (still not ten pounds!) — apply more pressure — than a six-weight. Period. Why do you think people use 12-weights to fight big tarpon? Because they need a 12-weight to cast a lightly-dressed 3/0 fly? Not. Dan Gracia, why don’t you jump in on this one? You have a great way of explaining things. Bob Scott
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If your six weight can lift ten pounds, I’ll eat my eight and nine weight rods. Like the other guy said, go ahead and put a ten-pound weight on the floor, put some heavy tippet on your miracle six-weight, get out your warranty card, and try to lift it up. I know you won’t try it. An eight-weight will lift more weight (still not ten pounds!) — apply more pressure — than a six-weight. Period. Why do you think people use 12-weights to fight big tarpon? Because they need a 12-weight to cast a lightly-dressed 3/0 fly? Not.
I think you have all forgotten the original "conondrum" , whether a 6 wt with 8 lb test can apply an equal amt of pressure as 8wt with 4lb tippet. to compare these two factors we apply logic and search for least common denominator between the two. For our purposes we will settle on the 4lb tippet. While on an equal basis, an 8wt rod will be able to apply more pressure than a 6wt, in this situation, the most amt of pressure the 8wt rod will be able to apply is 4lbs before the leader breaks. Likewise, the 6wt rod with 4lb leader will max out at 4lbs of pressure before the leader breaks.( hopefully we can all agree that a 6wt is capable of breaking 4lb tippet even though it may not be capable of breaking anything higher.) Since the 8wt is limited to 4 lb test, the real question becomes whether or not a 6 wt can apply more than 4lbs of pressure given the chance by using a stronger tippet, say 8lbs. whether it can or not doesn’t matter. the "conondrum" has been answered. Both rods will be able to apply at least 4 lbs of pressure, so in this exact situation, it doesn’t make a difference which setup you use, as both will be able to apply at least the same amt of pressure, so using a 6wt doesn’t put you at any diadvantage compared to the 8wt. Unaccounted factors: 1)No one ever uses their full tippet breaking strength. Applying 4 lbs of pressure to a 4 lb tippet is inviting disaster. 2lbs would be more like it, but we won’t take this into consideration as it will bring up more "conundrums". 2) Whether you can lift a weight with your rod is not a realistic comparison of breaking strength.it doesn’t take into account the speed of the pressure application and water tension which equally apply in real situations.
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I was in the local flyshop and was chastized for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told thet I shold be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure?
The 6wt with 8lb tippet can put on more pressure. Ligther, more flexable rods protect tippets better. A lighter rod will flex more in the butt but you can still put pressure on the fish. The only reason people say you can’t put pressure on is fear of breaking the rod so size of fish is the question. How big are the steelhead you’re after? If they’re in the 4-10lb range then use the 6wt. If they are in the 15-20lb range, use an 8-9wt. The person using a stiffer, heavier rod with light tippet is putting more risk on the fish. Cheers, Jack
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastised for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told that I should be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, because have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutely no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statement on his part true?
Andrew, Another point is this discussion is that anyone who would chastise another as to one’s method of fishing, bothers me. Fred Halford and others includes…. As long as it is legal, reasonably sporting, and respects property rights and the rights of others near you, you ought to be able to fish with what works for you…… With a steady pull, one cannot exert 8 pounds of pressure on a tippet with a 9 foot rod…. So I think the way you apply pressure and way you avoid letting the fish rest between runs and pulls has a lot to do with how quickly one can land a fish… For example a fish hooked in the upper lip can be made to raise its head while fighting a very quickly tired…. as compared to one hooked in the rear lower edge of the mandible. If you have ever accidently hooked a fish in tail, you will know the outter limit of this difference… Keeping the fish upstream of you will also result in a quicker finish….. And in very clear water, that is not too fast, and not too deep, and 8 pound tippet may provide many fewer hook-ups… Lots of side to this issue…. but for someone to say….. only fish the way I advocate…. well, I would chalk that up and move on.. Alan E. Hoover to quote one of my favorite authors: "Fly fishing is such great fun, it really ought to be done in bed" John Voelker, aka Robert Traver
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastized for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told thet I shold be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, becauseI have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutly no sense to me.
The guy is full of unmitigated bull hooie. The tippet is the defining element. If you can break the tippet with the rod, and the tippet is strong enough to be appropriate for the fish, the rod is fine. And 3x tippet, from a reputable manufacturer, is strong enough for the average steelhead. If you were expecting to catch 20 lb fish all day, I might sing a different story, but the 8 to 12 lb fish I run into can be brought to the beach in 5 minutes with 8lb test leader, and that seems to let them swim away safely. I have caught 15 lb steelhead with my six weight, using 3x (=8lb) tippet, and been able to whip the steelhead quickly. I use 8lb leader for gear fishing with a meat stick, with the same, sporting, results. I think the average fisherman does not realize how much pressure can be put on a fish with today’s tippet material. — Andrew Brunette
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How tightly do you set your drag? If you point your rod tip towards the fish and set the drag higher than when fishing with a 4 lb tippet then sure you will definitely apply more pressure. Your drag setting and how you hold the rod while fighting fish will determine the answer to your question. My guess is that you’ve got the drag setting at less than 4 lbs (would you dare jiggle a 1/2 gallon carton of milk from the end of your 6 wt rod?). So the guy at the shop is probably right. Mu Young Lee Ann Arbor, MI o oooo o o o o o o o o – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastized for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told thet I shold be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, becauseI have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutly no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statment on his part true? Andrew
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Hi All, I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastised for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told that I should be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, because have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutely no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statement on his part true? Andrew
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Hi All, I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastized for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told thet I shold be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, becauseI have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutly no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statment on his part true? Andrew
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastised for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told that I should be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, because have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutely no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statement on his part true?
Hi Andrew, Like many answers, this one is "it all depends". Obvoiusly 4 pound test line (presuming it is rated accurately) will break before 8 lb test. But the question is, "how much of that 8lb. test capacity are you really using?" The answer is "not nearly as much as you think your are." If you hook up your 6 wt. to a Chatillon scale and start bending the heck out of it, you will find it very hard to exert more than 5 lbs. of steady pressure (don’t break your rod trying to get that little bit more!). Quick jerks will exceed it but not steady pressure which is what you’re using when you’re fighting fish. An 8 wt. rod is much more capable of exerting that amount of steady pressure, though 8lbs of steady pressure will bend most 8 wt rods well into the butt. If you both used 8 lb. tippet then I’d say the 8wt. would be able to apply more of the tippet’s capacity more consistently than the 6wt. So, depending on how you fight the fish, the 8wt. would certainly be more capable of applying constant pressure at 4 lbs. than the 6 wt. An 8wt will however break 4lb. test pretty consistently so it requires a very good touch. If the comparison had been a 6wt. with 8lb. test vs an 8wt. with 6 lb. test, then I’d say the 8 wt would do the better job because it would be able to constantly use more of the tippets capacity than the 6wt. By changing the rod angle, you can change the amount of pressure on the fish. if you keep your rod tip up and the butt of the rod between 45 and 60 degrees, you get a maximum amount of shock absorption and comparatively little pressure on the fish. However, if you wind or strip in line until your rod angle is more like 30 degrees, anchor the line against the handle or reel, and then pull up and off to the side, you exert easily two to three times as much pressure. You are takin the tip of the rod out of the fight by doing this and using the butt of the rod to supply the lifting power. This is a good technique to use once you’ve got a fish beaten. It can break you off quickly if the fish is too fresh. Try this with a friend sometime. One hold the rod and the other hold the end of the line. Pull with both methods. The one bending the rod will think he is exerting huge amounts of pressure when he is not. As soon as the rod tip drops and then pulls, the difference is obvious. Hope this helps, Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish
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You might want to contact the real experts at a place called G. Loomis. They have the tech. knowledge to give you the facts. try http://www.gloomis.com Regards, Capt. Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastized for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told thet I shold be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, becauseI have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutly no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statment on his part true? Andrew
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastised for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told that I should be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, because have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutely no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statement on his part true? Andrew
I agree with you with your specific example, I think you can put more pressure on a fish with a 6 wgt using an 8 lb tippet than you could with an 8 wgt using a 4 lb tippet. However, with a 6 or 8 weight rod both using for example an eight pound tippet, you could put more pressure on a fish with an 8 weight as a rule. Rod lengthn also figures in on this. You can put more pressure on a fish with a longer rod in the same line class. Action also plays into this. A fast rod can provide more pressure, but a softer rod is more forgiving and break offs are less likely. Obviously an angler’s skill is another factor. I think you use what works well for you just as long as the fish you catch (assuming you are releasing them) are landed in a short enough time that the fish will survive releasing. If you follow the reasoning of the guy in the shop, a 10 weight would be better, a 12 better still. Bet he doesn’t fish a 12. Willi
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Question:
Does anyone have a suggestion for spring Bluegill patterns? Thanks!
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Does anyone have a suggestion for spring Bluegill patterns? Thanks!
About the best source for panfish fly patters is: Stewart, Dick. Flies for bass & panfish / 1st ed. Intervale, NH : Northland Press ; New York, NY : Distributed by Lyons & Burford, c1992. v, 80, [7] p. : col. ill. ; 29 cm. If that’s not locally available, her are some suggestions: The traditional favorites are various rubber legged sinking flies with names like ‘Brim killer" and so on. A simple, efective and easy to tie fly of this sort that I use a great deal is as follows: Lightly weight a #8 or 10 nymph (or baitholder) hook with lead wire. Tie in a lenght of medium black (or olive, hot pink, white, etc.) chenelle and wind to front making a "fat" body. Tie in two long (2") strands of rubber hackle (white, black or to match body color) in the center, and pull the 4 ends back. Wrap in a head, and whip finish. Trim the rubber hackles to about twice the lenght of the fly. Other simple sinking flies that work well for Bluegill are wooly worms, gold ribbed hare’s ear nymphs, peacock herl bodies with black or brown tail and wet fly hackle, black gant, bee patterns, small streamers, small wooly buggers, & mini-jigs. For surface bugs, the traditional cork poppers – sneakey Peets, pan pops, etc., are very good, but not worth tying given their cost vs. the time to make them. Small (6 to 10#) hair bugs are good, and if you want to use dry flies, irresistibles or other deer hair body flies hold up well, as do hoppers, mudlers, etc. Basically, amuse yourself. If you like it, the bluegill will too. —
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Does anyone have a suggestion for spring Bluegill patterns? Thanks!
On the surface I have used small hard bodied poppers #10/12 in black or yellow and hair wing dry flies like a Humpy or Irresistible #10/12. Under water I have had good luck with a black wet fly. A little wooly worm, soft hackle fly or nymph #10/12. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA
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Does anyone have a suggestion for spring Bluegill patterns? Thanks!
I have found the Pass Lake pattern to be very effective for spring Bluegills.
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Does anyone have a suggestion for spring Bluegill patterns? Thanks!
A black beadhead wooly bugger fished at sundown, and right after, did the trick for me today.
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I admit I may be missing out on something, but I have literally only used one fly for panfish and caught hundreds over the years: a tiny yellow cork/balsa popper! Throughout the summer, I have never felt the need to fish underwater, as bluegill are 100% willing 100% of the time to savage a surface fly. At least, this is the case around the mid-Atlantic region. I _always_ catch them right along the edges of rivers and streams, in the shade under the banks. Scott (who sometimes believes fishing with wet flies is a glorified form of bait fishing!)
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Jack Ellis (author of The Sunfishes) and I publish a newsletter every month that is devoted entirely to warmwater fly fishing (esp. bluegills). Anybody who’d like to receive a couple of free samples just needs to email me their postal address and full name. We feature patterns and tying tips in each issue. Brian
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Bivisibles work great!! Use soft hackles on a size 12 or 14 and fish as a wetfly. Quick inch retrieves with pauses between seem to really excite gills. This is a favorite technique (of mine) in weedy ponds. Color preference varies with light conditions. DBZ
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writes: Does anyone have a suggestion for spring Bluegill patterns? Thanks!
I haven’t fished for bluegills for 25 years, and rather miss them. My experience: on the spawning beds, nearly anything works. In the summer, when the fish are scattered and lying deeper, two patterns really worked well — black gnat (#10 or so) with or without the wings, and a sort of spider that the local hardware store sold for two bits which had a soft vinyl body (like those Creepy Crawlies that kids make) and rubber legs. Crappies seem to like larger flies, esp. tinsel bodied patterns, and light, bright colors, yellow, white, pink. Bluegills seemed more interested in buggy, naturalistic colors, # 10 or smaller. The vinyl-bodied bug (a slow sinker) was effective at least partly because the fish didn’t spit it out. See if you can borrow the neighbor kid’s Mattell machine, perhaps? — Kilchis
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: Does anyone have a suggestion for spring Bluegill patterns? Thanks! I tie a large elk hair caddis(size 10 or 12), tan or florescent body, furnace hackle and a gold rib. Use about twice as much wing as normal, coat the clipped head with Sally Hansens and you have a fly that dives pulling a lot of air under with the over large wing. Good luck, Bob Capistrant
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tw Does anyone have a suggestion for spring Bluegill patterns? Thanks! i like to use a threadfin shad, maybe size 10-12. it is a very natural minnow imitation which in springtime is larger than the current year-class fry, but smaller than the previous year-class. that makes it a very tempting morsel both for crappies and the larger bluegills. i find that the smaller bluegills will eagerly go after small bugs (nymphs, gnats, etc) but will be a leetle more hesitant about attacking a minnow. hence the streamer seems to work well for mixed panfish beds (i.e. crappies, bluegills, in several year classes). but the threadfin shad is expensive! 2-3$ per. does anybody have a recipe for it? it would be great if i could manufacture them myself. i suppose the reason for the high price is that it has an epoxy body (???). it has a tiny tuft of marabou tail. the body has 3 black spots on each side. the body is silvery, dark back, light belly. the good news is that i only need 2-3 of them each spring, since each one will catch about 50 fish before it disintegrates. ra. — Richard Atkins Phone: (612) 951-7339 Honeywell Technology Center FAX: (612) 951-7438 MN65-2200 3660 Technology Drive
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Does anyone have a suggestion for spring Bluegill patterns? Thanks!
Tom: Here’s a suggestion on something called a "Pus Fly" (don’t blame me, I didn’t name it). I read about it on the wall of Jene Hughes’ fly shop in Des Moines, the 2nd. Ave. Bait Shop, and have been using it for two seasons now. Use a size 8-12 3x nymph hook and chartreuse thread. Tie in a piece of bead chain so the hook rides upside down. Tie the chain "eyes" about a quarter of an inch back from the eye of the hook. Tie in a short tail of chartreuse marabou, and then tie a stubby body of some sort of chartreuse material (I’ve used chenille, ice chenille, body wool, and even floss) to just behind the bead eyes. Tie in one or two turns of chartreuse or green hackle. Finish by building cross-tying around the bead eyes and then tapering a kind of long, sloping nose down to the hook eye. Coat the nose fairly heavily with head cement (you’ll catch a LOT of fish on each fly). The finished fly has a little resemblance to a Crazy Charlie bonefish fly. You can also tie them in purple, black, orange, and white (sort of my descending order of preference). My most effective way to fish it is anywhere from 18" to 4 feet under a fair-size bass or bluegill popper. The popper acts as a strike indicator but also can catch a lot of fish on its own. The ice just went out on our farm ponds about three weeks ago, and I’ve already caught several dozen pretty nice ‘gills on these flies. They seem to work particularly well during early spring and late fall, but will work all year. Enjoy, Bob
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: I was fishing Lochsa the other day. I just got to a new spot and was : getting ready to cast when I noticed one of those big brown-grey October : Caddis land on the surface of the water. It flopped its wings a bit but : was pretty much stuck. As it was about right in front of me a huge : cutthroat emerged from the green depth, there was a splash, and it looked : like the poor fly was a meal. But it wasn’t. The cutthroat disappeared : and the caddis flowed intact flopping its wings desperately. [snip] : I stood there motionless for a few moments waiting to make sure the show was : over. Then I started stripping some line off of the reel. As I was ready to : cast a thought occured to me that he was checking whether the fly was real. You play the fish…the fish plays the fly. We all crave entertainment. (My guess is that the cutt forgot to *suck*. I guess we will have to change the thread title to "Some Cutts really do *suck*".) Next time Ande… please just say "I was on a river the other day". Please, no names.<g — Rick T. Rick Fletcher – http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry | That’s Idaho, not Iowa. | These University of Idaho | Upper Left Hand Corner. | opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343 | No, I don’t grow potatoes. | are mine.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Wooley) writes: I was fishing Lochsa the other day. I just got to a new spot and was getting ready to cast when I noticed one of those big brown-grey October Caddis land on the surface of the water. It flopped its wings a bit but was pretty much stuck. As it was about right in front of me a huge cutthroat emerged from the green depth, there was a splash, and it looked like the poor fly was a meal. But it wasn’t. The cutthroat disappeared and the caddis flowed intact flopping its wings desperately. After a couple more seconds, the cutthroat reappeared and struck, again without taking the fly. I paused curious if he was going to leave the caddis alone. A few seconds passed and the cutthroat emerged, again made a splash and didn’t get it either. Then, almost immediately, he struck the final time and the fly was gone. The cutthroat vanished. I stood there motionless for a few moments waiting to make sure the show was over. Then I started stripping some line off of the reel. As I was ready to cast a thought occured to me that he was checking whether the fly was real. -Ande Rychter Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? We’re talking about a fish here man…with a brain the size of a "green pea!" Not even a _brain surgeon_ checks his food three times before he eats it (and more often, his food is not trying to escape.) O.K.! Maybe the ones with brains the size of a "green pea" do… 
cw — Indocti discant et ament meminisse periti
Well gee, Not sure about this one. I’ve seen trout act that way too, and maybe I’m just fooling myself, but it seems as though I’ve seen it more in hard fished streams. Don’t think it’s intelligence, but maybe natural selection? Fish adept at getting the fly the first time are caught first? I know that I’ve seen it most where the fish have lots of time, in long slicks and such. And (come to think of it) the flys were always fairly close to ME, the evil fish catching monster. Hmmmmmm. Something to ponder anyway. Steve
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was fishing Lochsa the other day. I just got to a new spot and was getting ready to cast when I noticed one of those big brown-grey October Caddis land on the surface of the water. It flopped its wings a bit but was pretty much stuck. As it was about right in front of me a huge cutthroat emerged from the green depth, there was a splash, and it looked like the poor fly was a meal. But it wasn’t. The cutthroat disappeared and the caddis flowed intact flopping its wings desperately. After a couple more seconds, the cutthroat reappeared and struck, again without taking the fly. I paused curious if he was going to leave the caddis alone. A few seconds passed and the cutthroat emerged, again made a splash and didn’t get it either. Then, almost immediately, he struck the final time and the fly was gone. The cutthroat vanished. I stood there motionless for a few moments waiting to make sure the show was over. Then I started stripping some line off of the reel. As I was ready to cast a thought occured to me that he was checking whether the fly was real. -Ande Rychter
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? We’re talking about a fish here man…with a brain the size of a "green pea!" Not even a _brain surgeon_ checks his food three times before he eats it (and more often, his food is not trying to escape.) O.K.! Maybe the ones with brains the size of a "green pea" do… cw — Indocti discant et ament meminisse periti
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I was fishing Lochsa the other day. I just got to a new spot and was getting ready to cast when I noticed one of those big brown-grey October Caddis land on the surface of the water. It flopped its wings a bit but was pretty much stuck. As it was about right in front of me a huge cutthroat emerged from the green depth, there was a splash, and it looked like the poor fly was a meal. But it wasn’t. The cutthroat disappeared and the caddis flowed intact flopping its wings desperately. After a couple more seconds, the cutthroat reappeared and struck, again without taking the fly. I paused curious if he was going to leave the caddis alone. A few seconds passed and the cutthroat emerged, again made a splash and didn’t get it either. Then, almost immediately, he struck the final time and the fly was gone. The cutthroat vanished. I stood there motionless for a few moments waiting to make sure the show was over. Then I started stripping some line off of the reel. As I was ready to cast a thought occured to me that he was checking whether the fly was real. -Ande Rychter
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not an expert on Redfish, but I have fished for them with flies in Tampa Bay, and I have a good friend who even catches them there that way. The fundamental secret is sinking line. Redfish are downlooking feeders. They like shrimp, shrimp dive for the bottom when they see predators. If you can make a shrimp imitation head for the bottom on the retrieve, you should have some success. I understand that green and white Lefty’s Deceivers and Clouser innows are pretty good too. Good luck, I did throw a line at some enormous RF there in Tampa Bay, and the ones my boatmates caught on bait were quite a handful (18-25#). Crashjibe
Get the August/September issue of Fly Fishing Saltwater. One of the articles is Florida’s Indian River Lagoon. The Indian river is on the East coast of Florida rather than the west coast where Tampa, but Jon Cave, the author talks extensively about catching redfish and trout. I am also taking a fly fihsing course from him this weekend. His favorite is a deerhair surface popper. He also suggests streamer flies, and bendbacks. Clouser deep minnows and keel-hook flies are recommended. Use a 7 to 9 weight system and a floating line for most situations. Reds like surface disturbances and noise. From my own experience, if you can get something flashy and something that rattles, a red will strike it no matter where it is. They will get surface flies as well as deep water flies. Good luck!
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I am going to Tampa in two weeks, and would like to know what flys will catch some of the ultra large redfish my Father-in-law is takeing on cut bait! I know that they don’t see well, and I know that fly’s don’t have much of a stink to them??? I am a newbie to fly fishing…any and all help would be very much appreciated!
Starting from the surface and working to the bottom: Floater — Pencil poppers – white or yellow with red head. Slow sinker — SeaDucers – same colors. Medium sinker — Lefty’s Deceivers or Blondes. Faster sinker — Bendbacks, deceivers and blondes with bead chain eyes. Bottom bouncers — Clouser minnows and larger crazy charlies. Check with the locals on what is hot the days you are there.
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Heyne) writes:
I’m not an expert on Redfish, but I have fished for them with flies in Tampa Bay, and I have a good friend who even catches them there that way. The fundamental secret is sinking line. Redfish are downlooking feeders. They like shrimp, shrimp dive for the bottom when they see predators. If you can make a shrimp imitation head for the bottom on the retrieve, you should have some success. I understand that green and white Lefty’s Deceivers and Clouser innows are pretty good too. Good luck, I did throw a line at some enormous RF there in Tampa Bay, and the ones my boatmates caught on bait were quite a handful (18-25#). Crashjibe
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I am going to Tampa in two weeks, and would like to know what flys will catch some of the ultra large redfish — deleted Thanks…Craig.
I plan a trip in Jan and my info says Clouser minnows, both with and without bead head eyes in green/white. I ‘ll try some pink/biege for shrimp imitatisons too. They are easy to tie. Crazy Charlies have a body wrap that I can’t identify so I will buy them or tie there. Anyone have a quickie crab pattern?
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I am going to Tampa in two weeks, and would like to know what flys will catch some of the ultra large redfish my Father-in-law is takeing on cut bait! I know that they don’t see well, and I know that fly’s don’t have much of a stink to them??? I am a newbie to fly fishing…any and all help would be very much appreciated! Thanks…Craig. — "Sometimes you get shown the Light, in the strangest places if you look at right"
I seem to remember a "shrimp" pattern as being reasonably successful… But it’s been quite a while and I was fishing in the marshes of south Louisiana (Lafitte, etc.). Hap — <<<<< OMNIA EXTARES
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I am going to Tampa in two weeks, and would like to know what flys will catch some of the ultra large redfish my Father-in-law is takeing on cut bait! I know that they don’t see well, and I know that fly’s don’t have much of a stink to them??? I am a newbie to fly fishing…any and all help would be very much appreciated! Thanks…Craig. — "Sometimes you get shown the Light, in the strangest places if you look at right"
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