Question:

Well, I’ve hinted at it; and now it’s time to start writing in ink.   I’m proposing a ROFF mini-clave in Altmar, NY to catch a few salmon, drink a few beers, and tell a few lies.   At this late date, accommodations in the entire area should be nigh on impossible to obtain; but I have already reserved two large rooms at Malinda’s for Thurs., October 17 thru the 20th. One room is essentially full already; but the other sleeps 3 or 4 should any intrepid souls want to make definite plans for that weekend. I’m willing to bet that most folks interested will already be familiar with the area; but any questions about the fishing, fly selection, places to eat, lodges, etc. will be cheerfully answered for those who are not; and I’ll even put up a web site if necessary. So consider this a preliminary announcement.   More info will be provided as needed. Joe F.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I’ve hinted at it; and now it’s time to start writing in ink.   I’m proposing a ROFF mini-clave in Altmar, NY to catch a few salmon, drink a few beers, and tell a few lies.   At this late date, accommodations in the entire area should be nigh on impossible to obtain; but I have already reserved two large rooms at Malinda’s for Thurs., October 17 thru the 20th. One room is essentially full already; but the other sleeps 3 or 4 should any intrepid souls want to make definite plans for that weekend. I’m willing to bet that most folks interested will already be familiar with the area; but any questions about the fishing, fly selection, places to eat, lodges, etc. will be cheerfully answered for those who are not; and I’ll even put up a web site if necessary. So consider this a preliminary announcement.   More info will be provided as needed. Joe F.

Joe- It’s a really busy semester for me, but I might be able to swing by on the weekend (yeah, I know about the crowds, but it will be for the comeraderie and not the fishing).  Joe Verdone might be interested as well.  I don’t think we’ll be needing accomodations, we’re a stone’s throw away — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

Well, I’ve hinted at it; and now it’s time to start writing in ink.   I’m proposing a ROFF mini-clave in Altmar, NY to catch a few salmon, drink a few beers, and tell a few lies.  

Those salmon aren’t, like, trying to spawn, are they? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Well, I’ve hinted at it; and now it’s time to start writing in ink. I’m proposing a ROFF mini-clave in Altmar, NY to catch a few salmon, drink a few beers, and tell a few lies. Those salmon aren’t, like, trying to spawn, are they?

They sure are.  They swim right into the loving hands of the folks at the hatchery, where the hens get squeezed like bagpipes and the males are emptied like a tube of toothpaste. Pete

Response:

Those salmon aren’t, like, trying to spawn, are they? They sure are.

In that case, I’m afraid it’s unethical. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

In that case, I’m afraid it’s unethical.

Ethics on the Salmon River are as rare as a 2 – minute steak. Pete Collin

Response:

Pete?  "Flyfishing," is not a generalization sport which is as rare as a 1 minute steak. George Gehrke :  ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In that case, I’m afraid it’s unethical. Ethics on the Salmon River are as rare as a 2 – minute steak. Pete Collin

Response:

Question:

Part III

Nice reports Warren, thanks. — Charlie…

Response:

 The Missouri is a lot different than any other waters I have fished. It was a little difficult for me to decipher because it is so slow moving.  All the other tail waters I have fished have had a lot more current to them.  I am not saying that the Missouri is weak, but it is wide, deep and pretty structureless.   I don

Question:

You asked for it, Wayno. The whole story is kinda embarrassing, because it was all my own damn fault. We were camped at the Salmon Fly FAS at the mouth of Maiden Rock Canyon on the Big Hole River in Montana. (Note to Clavesters:  I spend a fair amount of time in snake country, and I have NEVER seen rattlesnakes like I have seen them in the Big Hole valley.  "It’s a snakey son-of-a- bitch," as the locals put it.) Anyway, I was walking from our camper up to the outhouse one morning, and I saw this little tiny snake on the road, maybe 6 inches long, tops.  I thought to myself, if you want to call it thinking, "I bet the kids would like to see, this," and bent down and grabbed it.  Now, I have caught hundreds of snakes in my life, and thought I was pretty good at it.  I grabbed him right behind the head, but as it turns out, he had just enough wiggle room to turn his head and stick one fang in the side of my thumb.  Now, at first, I didn’t think I was in any trouble, cuz how much venom can a little baby snake have, anyway? As it turns out, the answer is, "Plenty," and it is a more concentrated form than adult snakes have.  After about ten minutes, my thumb was twice its normal size, and we were in the truck headed to the ER in Dillon.  They kept me for 24 hours, pumped 20 vials of anti-venom into me, which had to be brought in from all over the state by Highway Patrol officers (Thanks again, boys.) The worst part comes about a week afterwards.  When you get the anti-venom (which is extracted from horses,) you get a thousand other foreign antibodies along with it, at least one of which is going to cause a horrible allergic reaction.  (Try to imagine rolling naked in a patch of poison ivy and nettles that is infested with black flies and mosquitos…)  I have pictures of myself, and I look like I have leprosy or something.  Back to the emergency room, for steroid injections… No, I take it back, the worst part came two weeks later, when I got a bill for $8000 and change from the hospital. Each little vial of antivenom costs $300.  Even after insurance, I had to cough up over a thousand out of my own pocket, which is none too deep to begin with. Another note to Clavesters:  If you do get snakebit, the hospital in Dillon is pretty good, and they now have experience in treating snakebites.  Nobody there had seen one before I came in, and I was something of a curiosity.  Doctors and nurses were coming in on their days off to take a look at me.  In fact, a year later, I was dropping my sister off at the airport in Butte and one of the doctors was on an incoming flight.  He recognized me from across the terminal and came over to check out my thumb (no charge!) Kevin

Response:

Kevin, $8,000.00 does seem a bit steep and 20 vials of anti venom sounds ridiculous.  Hell just cut your thumb off the next time.  Then bring it in, give it a shot and have it sewn back on after the allergic reaction. Ernie "Kevin Vang" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, I take it back, the worst part came two weeks later, when I got a bill for $8000 and change from the hospital. Kevin

Response:

Seems that way, doesn’t it?  But apparently 20 vials is the standard dose for adult males of my (larger than average) size.  Here’s the real kicker:  No hospital anywhere has more than 7 vials in inventory.  The ER nurses had to phone all over trying to get more shipped in.  Ennis, in particular, had only one, and they didn’t want to share.  (I remember hearing the nurse saying, "Well, what exactly is your plan if you get a snakebite patient, anyway?"  Apparently the plan is to get you stabilized and put you on a one-way chopper to somewhere else.) Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kevin, $8,000.00 does seem a bit steep and 20 vials of anti venom sounds ridiculous.  Hell just cut your thumb off the next time.  Then bring it in, give it a shot and have it sewn back on after the allergic reaction. Ernie "Kevin Vang" wrote No, I take it back, the worst part came two weeks later, when I got a bill for $8000 and change from the hospital. Kevin

Response:

Seems that way, doesn’t it?  But apparently 20 vials is the standard dose for adult males of my (larger than average) size.  Here’s the real kicker:  No hospital anywhere has more than 7 vials in inventory.  The ER nurses had to phone all over trying to get more shipped in.  Ennis, in particular, had only one, and they didn’t want to share.  (I remember

Count yourself luck that you didn’t lose your thumb. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

don’t ever get bitten by a rabid animal, the cost will astound you. it’s something like $2400 a treatment, there were 4 Flyfish who had to have this done to his son

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kevin, $8,000.00 does seem a bit steep and 20 vials of anti venom sounds ridiculous.  Hell just cut your thumb off the next time.  Then bring it in, give it a shot and have it sewn back on after the allergic reaction. Ernie "Kevin Vang" wrote No, I take it back, the worst part came two weeks later, when I got a bill for $8000 and change from the hospital. Kevin

Response:

My buddys son was bitten by what turned out to be a rabid dog and the experience was horrific. Costs aside, and they are very high, the treatments were extremely painful as well.  Not a very nice experience. The alternatives are even worse, not much fun at all. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – don’t ever get bitten by a rabid animal, the cost will astound you. it’s something like $2400 a treatment, there were 4 Flyfish who had to have this done to his son Kevin, $8,000.00 does seem a bit steep and 20 vials of anti venom sounds ridiculous.  Hell just cut your thumb off the next time.  Then bring it in, give it a shot and have it sewn back on after the allergic reaction. Ernie "Kevin Vang" wrote No, I take it back, the worst part came two weeks later, when I got a bill for $8000 and change from the hospital. Kevin

Response:

It’s a horrible disease, with a horrible treatment. Where was this Harry?  Rabid dogs are very rare. There hasn’t been a documented case of rabies in a dog in Colorado in over ten years, although we do get cases of wild animals that are rabid. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My buddys son was bitten by what turned out to be a rabid dog and the experience was horrific. Costs aside, and they are very high, the treatments were extremely painful as well.  Not a very nice experience. The alternatives are even worse, not much fun at all. don’t ever get bitten by a rabid animal, the cost will astound you. it’s something like $2400 a treatment, there were 4 Flyfish who had to have this done to his son Kevin, $8,000.00 does seem a bit steep and 20 vials of anti venom sounds ridiculous.  Hell just cut your thumb off the next time.  Then bring it in, give it a shot and have it sewn back on after the allergic reaction. Ernie "Kevin Vang" wrote No, I take it back, the worst part came two weeks later, when I got a bill for $8000 and change from the hospital. Kevin

Response:

Why would you catch a rattlesnake in order to show it to your kids? Why would you catch one at all? Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You asked for it, Wayno. The whole story is kinda embarrassing, because it was all my own damn fault. We were camped at the Salmon Fly FAS at the mouth of Maiden Rock Canyon on the Big Hole River in Montana. (Note to Clavesters:  I spend a fair amount of time in snake country, and I have NEVER seen rattlesnakes like I have seen them in the Big Hole valley.  "It’s a snakey son-of-a- bitch," as the locals put it.) Anyway, I was walking from our camper up to the outhouse one morning, and I saw this little tiny snake on the road, maybe 6 inches long, tops.  I thought to myself, if you want to call it thinking, "I bet the kids would like to see, this," and bent down and grabbed it.  Now, I have caught hundreds of snakes in my life, and thought I was pretty good at it.  I grabbed him right behind the head, but as it turns out, he had just enough wiggle room to turn his head and stick one fang in the side of my thumb.  Now, at first, I didn’t think I was in any trouble, cuz how much venom can a little baby snake have, anyway? As it turns out, the answer is, "Plenty," and it is a more concentrated form than adult snakes have.  After about ten minutes, my thumb was twice its normal size, and we were in the truck headed to the ER in Dillon.  They kept me for 24 hours, pumped 20 vials of anti-venom into me, which had to be brought in from all over the state by Highway Patrol officers (Thanks again, boys.) The worst part comes about a week afterwards.  When you get the anti-venom (which is extracted from horses,) you get a thousand other foreign antibodies along with it, at least one of which is going to cause a horrible allergic reaction.  (Try to imagine rolling naked in a patch of poison ivy and nettles that is infested with black flies and mosquitos…)  I have pictures of myself, and I look like I have leprosy or something.  Back to the emergency room, for steroid injections… No, I take it back, the worst part came two weeks later, when I got a bill for $8000 and change from the hospital. Each little vial of antivenom costs $300.  Even after insurance, I had to cough up over a thousand out of my own pocket, which is none too deep to begin with. Another note to Clavesters:  If you do get snakebit, the hospital in Dillon is pretty good, and they now have experience in treating snakebites.  Nobody there had seen one before I came in, and I was something of a curiosity.  Doctors and nurses were coming in on their days off to take a look at me.  In fact, a year later, I was dropping my sister off at the airport in Butte and one of the doctors was on an incoming flight.  He recognized me from across the terminal and came over to check out my thumb (no charge!) Kevin

Response:

don’t ever get bitten by a rabid animal, the cost will astound you. it’s something like $2400 a treatment, there were 4

Damn! Convinced me! I’m taking that off my to do list right away.<G

Response:

The Idaho pan handle in the mid eighties, I mailed him for the specifics. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where was this Harry?  Rabid dogs are very rare. There hasn’t been a documented case of rabies in a dog in Colorado in over ten years, although we do get cases of wild animals that are rabid.

Response:

don’t ever get bitten by a rabid animal, the cost will astound you. it’s something like $2400 a treatment, there were 4 Flyfish who had to have this done to his son

What did the little rascal do that was so bad you had a rabid animal bite him?? Regards, Jeff

Response:

Why would you catch a rattlesnake in order to show it to your kids? Why would you catch one at all?

Some people would do anything to win–a Darwin award. :=) Bill

Response:

 This has changed then. In 69 when I was bitten the treatment consisted of one injection per day for 14 days.I am now only required to get a booster if bitten by an animal considered rabid. —  Don Thompson  Zoomie(BushBug)  ACA#3460  TLCB#335  Any Time, Any Place  Pull the chocks, lets get this kite in the air.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – don’t ever get bitten by a rabid animal, the cost will astound you. it’s something like $2400 a treatment, there were 4 Flyfish who had to have this done to his son Kevin, $8,000.00 does seem a bit steep and 20 vials of anti venom sounds ridiculous.  Hell just cut your thumb off the next time.  Then bring it in, give it a shot and have it sewn back on after the allergic reaction. Ernie "Kevin Vang" wrote No, I take it back, the worst part came two weeks later, when I got a bill for $8000 and change from the hospital. Kevin

Response:

he got scratched by a racoon that was ~suspected~ of being rabit. The racoon was in the process of killing his easter chicken. Caution being the better part of valor and rabies being rampant in racoons in New England now, he got shots. He didn’t like it. The insurance company didn’t like it, I didn’t care for what was left over either but I’m glad he’s still about. Flyfish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – don’t ever get bitten by a rabid animal, the cost will astound you. it’s something like $2400 a treatment, there were 4 Flyfish who had to have this done to his son What did the little rascal do that was so bad you had a rabid animal bite him?? Regards, Jeff

Response:

This proves the statistic that most people in the USA are bitten while either trying to catch the snake or kill it.  Seems as if you earned your just reward. Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

This proves the statistic that most people in the USA are bitten while either trying to catch the snake or kill it.  Seems as if you earned your just reward.

Sounds like the bug up your ass is biting you.  I won’t hazard a guess as to whether you deserve it or not. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

Response:

This proves the statistic that most people in the USA are bitten while either trying to catch the snake or kill it.

From something I read once, the statistics are markedly different by gender. It seems that it’s mostly men who insist on picking them up and get bit on the hands & arms.   Most snake bites on women are on the feet & legs. Joe F.

Response:

Snake Venom… Chlorine for the gene pool

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This proves the statistic that most people in the USA are bitten while either trying to catch the snake or kill it.  Seems as if you earned your just reward.

Response:

Question:

After 40 years of fishing I finally had the time to slow down and start to learn the fine art of feather chucking.  Great way to angle,well worth the time spent. The problem I am having is I have spent 40yrs fishing and guiding  for Kings,Coho,Steelhead and White Sturgeon.I am thinking maybe I should buy a spay rod for these large fish? Does anyone have a recommendation on length of rod and  what type and size of reel.  I have purchased two cheap 6wt rods and spent last summer trying to learn the basics. I spend approx 70 to 80 days a year on rivers,doing Sturgeon research and have most of the day to practice. Also I was wondering if true "fly fishermen" would considering being guided by a "newbie". I have spent my lifetime flying,hiking and jet boating into the lakes and rivers of Central British Columbia. I have been very fortunate and have guided for people that have caught world class fish i.e. 85lb Kings 500lb Sturgeon. Thanks for your time,please advise. "Sturge On"  Gord

Response:

After 40 years of fishing I finally had the time to slow down and start to learn the fine art of feather chucking.  Great way to angle,well worth the time spent.

(snipped) Gord – can’t offer any advice on the spey rod.  I would say, however, that anyone with the experience that you have would be a great guide, regardless of tackle and species.  there was a thread here recently on fly fishing for sturgeon, which didn’t shed much light on the subject, as I recall.  Anyhow, I hope you get some competent advice. Mark Faulkner

Response:

and have guided for people that have caught world class fish i.e. 85lb Kings 500lb Sturgeon. Thanks for your time,please advise. "Sturge On" Gord

What the hell kind of fly would you tie for a 500lb. sturgeon, a poodle, or maybe a schnauzer? Poodle would be fun. Big Al…the poodles pal

Response:

What the hell kind of fly would you tie for a 500lb. sturgeon, a poodle, or maybe a schnauzer? Poodle would be fun. You’d need to xink up that poodle good to get it down, they’re normally high floaters and better for big gar. — Charlie…

Charlie, what about a "bunny"?

Response:

Charlie, what about a "bunny"? that would be a hare’s ear "version", i reckon, al? everything has its place. wayno

I think it is, wayno, I’m going to "demo" one this weekend, weather permitting.

Response:

What the hell kind of fly would you tie for a 500lb. sturgeon, a poodle, or maybe a schnauzer? Poodle would be fun.

You’d need to xink up that poodle good to get it down, they’re normally high floaters and better for big gar. — Charlie…

Response:

Charlie, what about a "bunny"?

        that would be a hare’s ear "version", i reckon, al?         everything has its place. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Question:

Beaver

Response:

Ralph H wrote …… But it bothered me I never saw that unexpected big fish that broke me off. What the hell was that anyway?

Alligator…your lucky you didn’t catch it —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

A great day’s fishing. But it bothered me I never saw that unexpected big fish that broke me off. What the hell was that anyway? Ralph H

Sturgeon Mark Faulkner

Response:

Dolly varden

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was out for my first trip of ‘99 Friday. We had a severe rainstorm earlier in the week with rain falls exceeding 2mm per hour for maybe 10 hours. By friday the Chehalis river was still high but clear and fishable. I spent an hour or so drifting the soft water on the east shore of the Forest Service camp. One fellow landed a small doe steelhead of 5 lbs. There didn’t seem much else that was fishable and with 6 or more cars at the hatchery I decided to try one of my favourite Fraser River backwaters for some winter cutthroat. If it didn’t work out I could always come back perhaps with the water a foot or so lower. The river was high here as well. Most of the bank was under water but I could wade it easy enough. I climbed down the bank and tested the creek mouth. Moving downstream I drifted the glo-bug through the riffled tailout where the creek broke into the big river. Looked too fast and streamy for a cutt to hold here but it was worth a shot. I cast and looked down to pick my way along the stream bed and felt a heaviness set in along the rod. Raising my arm I felt a solid weight and a reluctant shake then a surge. The little reel screamed as a determined fish stuck out for the main channel. The little trout reel doesn’t hold a lot of backing so I tightened the drag a bit and seconds later the run stopped and the line went slack. I reeled in and the fly and the shot were gone. That the shot was gone suggested it had hung on the shallow bar on the other side of the creek mouth and snapped the 3x tippet. It could have been a big cutt and I’ve heard of fish to 7 or 8 lbs but cutts seldom run like that. Steelhead? Did a few ascend the creek? Was it a stray fish from one of the big rivers or a fish bound for a tributary higher up the Fraser. For the next few hours I fished the bar and the rip rap banks below the creek hooking a mixed bag of whitefish and cutts to maybe 2lbs. A good number were wild fish. A higher proportion than I’ve seen here since hatchery plants started maybe 15 years ago. The weather was perfect. A great day’s fishing. But it bothered me I never saw that unexpected big fish that broke me off. What the hell was that anyway? Ralph H

Response:

I was out for my first trip of ‘99 Friday. We had a severe rainstorm earlier in the week with rain falls exceeding 2mm per hour for maybe 10 hours. By friday the Chehalis river was still high but clear and fishable. I spent an hour or so drifting the soft water on the east shore of the Forest Service camp. One fellow landed a small doe steelhead of 5 lbs. There didn’t seem much else that was fishable and with 6 or more cars at the hatchery I decided to try one of my favourite Fraser River backwaters for some winter cutthroat. If it didn’t work out I could always come back perhaps with the water a foot or so lower. The river was high here as well. Most of the bank was under water but I could wade it easy enough. I climbed down the bank and tested the creek mouth. Moving downstream I drifted the glo-bug through the riffled tailout where the creek broke into the big river. Looked too fast and streamy for a cutt to hold here but it was worth a shot. I cast and looked down to pick my way along the stream bed and felt a heaviness set in along the rod. Raising my arm I felt a solid weight and a reluctant shake then a surge. The little reel screamed as a determined fish stuck out for the main channel. The little trout reel doesn’t hold a lot of backing so I tightened the drag a bit and seconds later the run stopped and the line went slack. I reeled in and the fly and the shot were gone. That the shot was gone suggested it had hung on the shallow bar on the other side of the creek mouth and snapped the 3x tippet. It could have been a big cutt and I’ve heard of fish to 7 or 8 lbs but cutts seldom run like that. Steelhead? Did a few ascend the creek? Was it a stray fish from one of the big rivers or a fish bound for a tributary higher up the Fraser. For the next few hours I fished the bar and the rip rap banks below the creek hooking a mixed bag of whitefish and cutts to maybe 2lbs. A good number were wild fish. A higher proportion than I’ve seen here since hatchery plants started maybe 15 years ago. The weather was perfect. A great day’s fishing. But it bothered me I never saw that unexpected big fish that broke me off. What the hell was that anyway? Ralph H

Response:

Question:

Here are the facts. I am 70 years old and an avid fly fisherman. I am looking for a canoe I can fish from (stability), doesn`t weigh over 55 lbs (liftability by me). The canoe will mostly be used in lakes and ponds and large slow moving rivers. I am not budget conscious but do not want to have to give up a gold bar for this item. Please help

Response:

Get the lightest canoe you can. There are so many to chose from.

Response:

You know, I took the photograph, I am in the store enough (even help fill in), but I can’t for the life of me remember what kind of boat this is. It’s the top left yellow fiberglass canoe with the really wide beam, click on ‘canoes’ in the left frame on: http://members.aol.com/Froggie405/ It is really light, under 500.00, a price I would like to see on a fiberglass sea kayak… really light.  extremely stable.  pretty well made.  Roomy enough to fit that last fish that got away. The owner of the shop is on the list and could identify it for you. He could also prbably tell you where to find it in your area. — gabriel l romeu http://members.aol.com/romeug     studio furniture http://members.aol.com/romeugp    paintings, photos, prints, etc. http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR  a daily photo journal

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know, I took the photograph, I am in the store enough (even help fill in), but I can’t for the life of me remember what kind of boat this is. It’s the top left yellow fiberglass canoe with the really wide beam, click on ‘canoes’ in the left frame on: http://members.aol.com/Froggie405/ It is really light, under 500.00, a price I would like to see on a fiberglass sea kayak… really light.  extremely stable.  pretty well made.  Roomy enough to fit that last fish that got away. The owner of the shop is on the list and could identify it for you. He could also prbably tell you where to find it in your area.

It might be the We-No-Nah Fisherman, the 14′ is good for one, 16′ for two.  Quite light in Tuf-Weave, lighter still in Kevlar.  Very stable but not terribly slow.  Great Outdoor Provision Company in North Carolina used to stock them.  Call the Raleigh location for the best selection. — Delete all the occurences of the letter q to reply. — Andrew (no q) Gooding

Response:

Here’s this years advice. For the weight you will have to get a kevlar boat. For initial stability for fly fishing I would suggest at least 36 inches wide. If it is only going to be used for day trips there is no point in anything over 16 feet long. There are lots of manufacturers that make something in this area. Sincerely, Carey Robson President – Recreational Canoeing Association of British Columbia Master Instructor http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/CanoeBC     Here are the facts. I am 70 years old and an avid fly fisherman. I am     looking for a canoe I can fish from (stability), doesn`t weigh over 55     lbs (liftability by me). The canoe will mostly be used in lakes and     ponds and large slow moving rivers. I am not budget conscious but do not     want to have to give up a gold bar for this item. Please help

Response:

You may want to consider a sportspal canoe. They have some very stable stuff around 12 to 14 feet, excellent for fishing. If you don’t mind the price a kevlar is also a good canoe. One person wrote that you will want to keep it somewhat wide, that will help with the stability.

    Here are the facts. I am 70 years old and an avid fly fisherman. I am     looking for a canoe I can fish from (stability), doesn`t weigh over 55     lbs (liftability by me). The canoe will mostly be used in lakes and     ponds and large slow moving rivers. I am not budget conscious but do not     want to have to give up a gold bar for this item. Please help

Response:

Wardensworry, you need to check into Merrimack Canoes out of Crossville, Tenn. These are very beautiful  wood (ash&cherry) and fiberglas hand layup canoes And the company  will get you a boat pretty much whereever you are. Randy Pew is the owner(&Grandson of founder) and can be called at 931-484-4556. His boats aren’t cheap but once you see one you’ll wonder why they’re not more.They are  not for whitewater but flyfishing and tripping. Ask him about his Osprey and Tennessean, they sound like what you’re looking for.. I’m not a salesman or affiliated w/ Merrimack, just a friend of Randy’s and an admirer of his work.         Barnett

Response:

Depending upon where you are located, we carry the Northern Paddler line of glass canoes. They make a 10′6" model with a 40" beam. We have one in stock in yellow at $489.00. This would fit your stability and weight requirements. This is a solo boat. If interested, we are in Bordentown, NJ. Paint Island Canoe & Kayak. If you are in the east, there may be a dealer in your area. Give us a call. 609-324-8200 www.riversport.com/paintisland/

Response:

Question:

I had the problem last week of losing a shooting head.  I used the factory supplied braided connector about 2 years ago on my #8 shad rig.  Are there any cures for this?  I thought of using Pliobond on the connection. Regards, Bill  Remove the nospam to email

Response:

 I used the factory supplied braided connector about 2 years ago on my

#8 shad rig. Bill, I think your problem is right there. Lines and knots only live so long, especially if you use them hard. I get long life from my shooting heads, but I generally re-tie my connections to start every year (when I remember to do it, that is!). Pliobond or ‘hot stuff’ glue is a fine idea to strengthen the connection, but don’t overdo it. You can make your own briaded ends easily by buying a spool of braided mono (Cortland for example) from the store, and use a needle with an eye just large enough to thread the line through, and thread the line  into itself. Saves money, which makes you more likely to change connections often. Hope that lost shooting head wraps around the prop of a scofflaw! FlyFisherRay

Response:

I had the problem last week of losing a shooting head.  I used the factory supplied braided connector about 2 years ago on my #8 shad rig.  Are there any cures for this?  I thought of using Pliobond on the connection. Regards, Bill  Remove the nospam to email

I always superglue braided leaders on, because I’ve had too many work their way off over the years. It is a particular problem with repeated casting of heavy flies, and with roll/spey casting. Andrew                     The History of Fly Fishing             http://www.elisis.com/Fly.fishing.history/

Response:

I had the problem last week of losing a shooting head.  I used the factory supplied braided connector about 2 years ago on my #8 shad rig.  Are there any cures for this?  I thought of using Pliobond on the connection. I always superglue braided leaders on, because I’ve had too many work their way off over the years. It is a particular problem with repeated casting of heavy flies, and with roll/spey casting.

Better: use hard mono and tie a needle knot in the back of the head, then tie a perfection loop in the mono. Et voila! A loop that ain’t going nowhere, goop or no goop. And it won’t hinge like that friggin’ braided stuff either… Then do the same thing at the front of the head to loop on your leader. Try it/you’ll like it ;^)

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Question:

I have just moved to Miami, FL and am interested in emptying my flybox of trout flies, and pursuing bone fish.  However, when I see the reports in the magazines of bone fishing on the flats (which look beautiful) it always looks as though a boat id required. Where can I bone fish without a boat in Dade/Broward/or Monroe counties? Do you know of any particluar good spots? Is summer a good time to spot bone fish? Thanks in advance! Mac

Response:

I have just moved to Miami, FL and am interested in emptying my flybox of trout flies, and pursuing bone fish.  However, when I see the reports in the magazines of bone fishing on the flats (which look beautiful) it always looks as though a boat id required. Where can I bone fish without a boat in Dade/Broward/or Monroe counties? Do you know of any particluar good spots? Is summer a good time to spot bone fish? Thanks in advance! Mac

Hi Mac, I think there are lots of bonefish in Biscane Bay and all down through the Keys. There are some books written about the area. One is buy Stu Apte. I would find some fishing shops and find out where you can wade. I think April/May/June is prime time and Sept/Oct/Nov. I would go once or twice with a good guide. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

I have just moved to Miami, FL and am interested in emptying my flybox of trout flies, and pursuing bone fish.  However, when I see the reports in the magazines of bone fishing on the flats (which look beautiful) it always looks as though a boat id required. Where can I bone fish without a boat in Dade/Broward/or Monroe counties? Do you know of any particluar good spots? Is summer a good time to spot bone fish? Thanks in advance! Mac

Miami area and fly fishes there on a regular basis. Richard should be able to help you out with everything you need to know.

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Question:

Any places near Stockton, Ca or Sac that anyone has already fished. I’m looking for good places to fly fish for trout. Thanks Bob

Response:

Yes, try the Stanislaus River just East of Oakdale, below Tullock Reservoir.  I was there on Saturday and cought a couple of wild rainbows. All Catch and Release.  The water is high, yet fish are catchable. Doug

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Question:

The MERCHANT NAVY is the official name for the British merchant fleet in recognition of their losses in the World Wars. In fact there was a badge issued to mercant sailors that consists of the letters MN. — ship safety branch canadian coast guard-west vancouver

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David Jaroslav writes:        David Hogg or Daan Sandee writes:                The UK Merchant Navy flies the Red Ensign,                a.k.a. the Red Duster, a red flag with the                Union Flag in the upper left.        That would be UK Merchant Marine; the only Navy in the UK        is the Royal Navy. To say "civilian Navy" would be an        oxymoron and merchant vessels are civilian ships. Codswallop. Merchant Navy is a legitimate term in common use. Let me quote THE OXFORD COMPANION TO SHIPS AND THE SEA:        MERCHANT NAVY, a collective name to describe the merchant        ships on the official registers of any one nation. It        embraces  merchant ships of all varieties, from passenger        liners and very large tankers and bulk carriers to small        coasters, but does not normally include vessels used in        fishing. And just to confuse matters for you guys – (and a test of your knowledge) what flag do Royal Fleet Auxilairies fly????? (RFA’s) geoff Cap’n Fido GOBLIN

I’m glad to say that on my recent trip home I bought a larger red ensign. I have always been a bit worried about whether I have the right to fly it on my California registered boat though.  I thought of writing to the Department of Trade and Industry but thought since this thread was running that I’d check out the net wisdom. So; do I, as a British citizen, have the right to fly the red ensign on an American boat?  And if so, could the British government requisition the boat in wartime? Sincerely worried, John.

Response:

I’m glad to say that on my recent trip home I bought a larger red ensign. I have always been a bit worried about whether I have the right to fly it on my California registered boat though.  I thought of writing to the Department of Trade and Industry but thought since this thread was running that I’d check out the net wisdom. So; do I, as a British citizen, have the right to fly the red ensign on an American boat?  And if so, could the British government requisition the boat in wartime?

I’m no sea lawyer, but I believe the only illegality would be to fly the ensign of the wrong country from the customary position (mainsail leech in the case of Dr. Who) in order to falsely claim the protection of that government ("false flagging"). I believe Dr. Who is "numbered", not "registered" ("documented") in California, as I don’t imagine she admeasures the minimum of 5 tons required for documentation.  (Is she in Lloyd’s Register of Yachts?) Furthermore, if she were documented, *you* would not be allowed to own her. If numbered in California, she is a U.S. vessel regardless of her ownership. I believe Miss Manners would require that you fly from the leech only the U.S. ensign (or the U.S. Yacht Ensign).  In addition, you might fly the Red Ensign from the "courtesy ensign" position (usually the starboard spreader.) As to your last question, I think it might depend on whether Britain were at war *with the United States*. Sincerely worried, John.

May you avoid Dinty Moore Beef Stew henceforth,                  Tom Murphy Standard Disclaimer.

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JOHN S DREWERY writes:

        I’m glad to say that on my recent trip home I bought a larger         red ensign.  I have always been a bit worried about whether I         have the right to fly it on my California registered boat though.           I thought of writing to the Department of Trade and Industry but         thought since this thread was running that I’d check out the net         wisdom.         So; do I, as a British citizen, have the right to fly the red         ensign on an American boat?  And if so, could the British         government requisition the boat in wartime? You’re a bit light with caps, aren’t you old son. Try Red Ensign. Right? Might is Right. Fly it with pride. If I had a smaller one I’d fly it from the cross-trees of my GOBLIN as a Jolie Rougier – if you know what I mean.                                         Cap’n Fido, terror of the South Bay                                         GOBLIN

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And just to confuse matters for you guys – (and a test of your knowledge) what flag do Royal Fleet Auxilairies fly????? (RFA’s)

The Royal Fleet Auxilliaries fly the Blue Ensign.                      "In the long run, we’re all dead."                               -John Maynard Keynes

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The Great Aunt Maria, (my wee boat) flies a flag a bit like the Red Ensign, the Marine Flag of New Zealand: Union flag on one quarter, other three red, with 4 white stars on the fly. "Ensign" when used in the specific meaning of "A flag based on the national flag with extra bits" does not apply to the New Zealand flags, which were ensigns of a colony of the British Empire but are now "Flags" in their own right. Q: Do many other non-British countries have marine flags?

Response:

:   : The Great Aunt Maria, (my wee boat) flies a flag a bit like the Red : Ensign, the Marine Flag of New Zealand: Union flag on one quarter, : other three red, with 4 white stars on the fly. "Ensign" when used in : the specific meaning of "A flag based on the national flag with extra : bits" does not apply to the New Zealand flags, which were ensigns of : a colony of the British Empire but are now "Flags" in their own right. : Q: Do many other non-British countries have marine flags? The Canadian Navy flies the Canadian flag (Maple leaf w/ red vertical bars on either side) on the stern.  They also fly a Canadian navy flag (ensign?) on the bow when at the dock which is sort of based on the RN white ensign, consisting of a Canadian Flag in the upper left corner and the arms of the Canadian Navy (fouled anchor, crown and maple leaves) centred on a white background. The old canadian flag was based on the red ensign with the union jack in the upper left and the Canadian arms centred on a red background.   A couple of provincial flags (Ontario and Manitoba) are based on this same theme with the respective provincial arms centred. dave — Dept. of Oceanography             QUICS:  dhazen Dalhousie University              Voice: (902) 494-3396 Halifax, NS CANADA B3H 4J1        FAX:  (902) 494-3877              Dal’s Machine – My Opinions

Response:

… the Marine Flag of New Zealand: Union flag on one quarter, other three red, with 4 white stars on the fly. … Q: Do many other non-British countries have marine flags?

It’s not clear if you mean (currently) non-British or (ever) non-British.  In the former category is Jamaica.  Their martime flag is formed in a manner similar to New Zealand’s with a white cross and three red quarters and the Jamaican green/black civil flag in the top quarter nearest the (?)fly. Randolph Bentson

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Q: Do many other non-British countries have marine flags?

There has been a long discussiion under the headline ‘UNION JACK’. I do not have documentation available, but I think that the Union Jack is used as a marine flag only by the Queen herself. Most British registered boats use the Red Ensign. I believe that the ensign goes with the boat, because if I as Finnish citisen charter a British boat in say Cowes, I fly the Red Ensign while I use the boat. The British have two more ensigns: Blue Ensign and White Ensign. The White Ensign is quite exclusive, the use is restricted to the members of the royal family, former marine officers (perhaps there is some limit in rank) and the members of the Royal Yacht Squadron. The Blue Ensign is a bit more common, it is used by members of the Royal Cruising Club and a number of other Yacht Clubs (I believe that most of them have the prefix Royal in their name.) The ensigns come in two categories ‘faced’ and ‘defaced’, i.e. there is some symbol on the face of the ensign referring to a certain club. There are several other countries that have special marine flags. I do not have a list of them but at least U.S., Italy, Denmark and Finland have ones. In Finland each yacht club has it’s own symbol at the upper corner at the fly. The ensign is white, like the national flag, but has added to the blue cross another white cross on right onver the blue one. The ’sailor’ flag is actually older than the Finnish national flag, because when the first yacht clubs were born more than 130 years ago, Finland was a part of Russia and the sailors did not want to fly the Russian flag and they got the permission from the czar to fly a ‘club ensign’.  Anyway today this ‘club ensings’ are bona fide national flags, because all of them are approved by the parliament to be so. If I have some British subject on my boat, I can fly the Red Ensign on my port flagline. If I sail to U.K. I fly the same on my starboard flagline. If I charter a boat in some foreign country I fly the flag of the registration countty of the boat in the stern and my Finnish club flag or ensign on my port flagline. This rule should be clear, but I have a problmem: What shall I do, if I have guestos on my boat from several countries. I cannot possibly fly say, a German, Swedish, Danish and French flag of ensign on my port flag rope? – Lauri Tarkkonen

Response:

The Great Aunt Maria, (my wee boat) flies a flag a bit like the Red Ensign, the Marine Flag of New Zealand: Union flag on one quarter, other three red, with 4 white stars on the fly. "Ensign" when used in the specific meaning of "A flag based on the national flag with extra bits" does not apply to the New Zealand flags, which were ensigns of a colony of the British Empire but are now "Flags" in their own right. Q: Do many other non-British countries have marine flags?

Perhaps ‘not derived from British practice’ would be more accurate (see India, Ireland etc) The only ones which spring to mind are the swallow-tailed ensigns based on the national flag, as used in Scandinavian vessels. Also certain yacht clubs in Belgium and the Netherlands use defaced (technical term meaning ‘bearing a badge or symbol’) national flags as ensigns. At least one Dutch yacht club appears to have a version of the White Ensign. Just to add to the previous discussion, the Red Ensign is the national maritime ensign of the UK which may be flown by a British subject in a vessel which is not otherwise required to fly some other national ensign (ie is on another register). This is exactly the same as the right of US citizens to fly the Stars and Stripes (since there is no US maritime ensign) in a US registered or an unregistered vessel. If the vessel is a registered British ship then the Red Ensign must, by law, be flown under certain circumstances (eg entering and leaving port, when in sight of other vessels). If the vessel is authorised to fly another British ensign (defaced Red, defaced Blue, Blue or White) then that ensign may replace the Red. But it is still *correct* to fly the Red Ensign and I often do so in place of the Blue of the Cruising Association when abroad, since the Red is more readily recognised by lock and bridge keepers, Customs and harbour personnel. For the origin of the Red, White and Blue Ensigns see ‘Squadronal Colours’ in the Oxford Dictionary of Ships and the Sea. More controversially, does anyone share my dislike of the bastard "European" blue ensign which has appeared on a few yachts in recent years? Brian Gay

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :   : The Great Aunt Maria, (my wee boat) flies a flag a bit like the Red : Ensign, the Marine Flag of New Zealand: Union flag on one quarter, : other three red, with 4 white stars on the fly. "Ensign" when used in : the specific meaning of "A flag based on the national flag with extra : bits" does not apply to the New Zealand flags, which were ensigns of : a colony of the British Empire but are now "Flags" in their own right. : Q: Do many other non-British countries have marine flags? The Canadian Navy flies the Canadian flag (Maple leaf w/ red vertical bars on either side) on the stern.  They also fly a Canadian navy flag (ensign?) on the bow when at the dock which is sort of based on the RN white ensign, consisting of a Canadian Flag in the upper left corner and the arms of the Canadian Navy (fouled anchor, crown and maple leaves) centred on a white background. The old canadian flag was based on the red ensign with the union jack in the upper left and the Canadian arms centred on a red background.   A couple of provincial flags (Ontario and Manitoba) are based on this same theme with the respective provincial arms centred. dave

Just a note on ceremonial here – Back when I was doing my officer of the day certification – (eventually I became a CO of a Canadian Warship) I remember studying this whole business about ensigns and such. In Canadian Warships, the national flag has been designated the Ensign. Hence it is flown from the stern. The falg at the bow is called the Jack. Hence the term Jackstaff, which is that stick up at the front. — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dept. of Oceanography             QUICS:  dhazen Dalhousie University              Voice: (902) 494-3396 Halifax, NS CANADA B3H 4J1        FAX:  (902) 494-3877             Dal’s Machine – My Opinions

Response:

[much useful informatio non Ensigns deleted] More controversially, does anyone share my dislike of the bastard "European" blue ensign which has appeared on a few yachts in recent years?

I think the operative word is ‘bastard’.  I agree with you.  The Ensign is to designate the country under whose authority (or protection) the vessel is placed. Give me the Red Duster (or defaced Blue/White/Red) any day! — Regards, Iain  snailmail: MLB G/53a, BT Labs, Martlesham Heath, Ipswich. IP5 7RE

Response:

Just a note on ceremonial here – Back when I was doing my officer of the day certification – (eventually I became a CO of a Canadian Warship) I remember studying this whole business about ensigns and such. In Canadian Warships, the national flag has been designated the Ensign. Hence it is flown from the stern. The falg at the bow is called the Jack. Hence the term Jackstaff, which is that stick up at the front. —

Can you explain the purpose/use of the Jack.  In the US navy it is called the Union Jack and is a square blue flag covered with white stars.  What does it mean and when is it flown?  Do only military vessels fly it? Every time I’ve seen it mentioned in a book it has piqued my interest so I read about it only to find the writer apparently knows no more about it than I do. Greg Cook

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just to add to the previous discussion, the Red Ensign is the national maritime ensign of the UK which may be flown by a British subject in a vessel which is not otherwise required to fly some other national ensign (ie is on another register). This is exactly the same as the right of US citizens to fly the Stars and Stripes (since there is no US maritime ensign) in a US registered or an unregistered vessel. If the vessel is a registered British ship then the Red Ensign must, by law, be flown under certain circumstances (eg entering and leaving port, when in sight of other vessels). If the vessel is authorised to fly another British ensign (defaced Red, defaced Blue, Blue or White) then that ensign may replace the Red. But it is still *correct* to fly the Red Ensign and I often do so in place of the Blue of the Cruising Association when abroad, since the Red is more readily recognised by lock and bridge keepers, Customs and harbour personnel.

This leads me back to the original question, and variations thereon.  If a British citizen residing in the U.S. purchases a boat which was previously a U.S. registered vessel, then that person may not maintain the U.S. registration since they are not a citizen of the U.S.  Under U.S. law, that boat must then be registered ("numbered") with the state authorities.  As a British subject, may that person then fly the Red Ensign from such a vessel?  What is the current U.K. law regarding the registration of vessels, and may that vessel be registered as a British ship?  What constitutes authorisation to fly another British ensign (defaced Red, defaced Blue, Blue or White)? — Steve Robinson in North Andover, Mass.   "Sir, you will either die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That, my lord, depends on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." John Wilkes to the Earl of Sandwich, Parliament, November 1763

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This leads me back to the original question, and variations thereon.  If a British citizen residing in the U.S. purchases a boat which was previously a U.S. registered vessel, then that person may not maintain the U.S. registration since they are not a citizen of the U.S.  Under U.S. law, that boat must then be registered ("numbered") with the state authorities.  As a British subject, may that person then fly the Red Ensign from such a vessel?  

My guess is that being "numbered" on a state register is not *official registration* and therefore the British subject may fly the Red Ensign. What is the current U.K. law regarding the registration of vessels, and may that vessel be registered as a British ship?

There are two registers – the Official Register of British Ships and the Small Ships Register. Getting your ex-US ship onto the former would be difficult and costly but the latter is straightforward – apply to SSR, DVLA, Swansea, Wales.  What constitutes authorisation to fly another British ensign (defaced Red, defaced Blue, Blue or White)?

Permits to fly other British ensigns are issued by the authorised clubs to members owning registered vessels. Brian Gay

Response:

There has been a long discussiion under the headline ‘UNION JACK’. I do not have documentation available, but I think that the Union Jack is used as a marine flag only by the Queen herself.

No. It is flown in the bows (at a jackstaff) on Royal Navy ships at anchor or moorings (when it is properly called the Union Jack). As the Union Flag it is the personal flag of an Admiral of the Fleet. Most British registered boats use the Red Ensign. I believe that the ensign goes with the boat, because if I as Finnish citisen charter a British boat in say Cowes, I fly the Red Ensign while I use the boat.

If the boat is on a British register, this is correct. If not, then whatever ensign is  allowed by the law of the charterer’s country. The British have two more ensigns: Blue Ensign and White Ensign. The White Ensign is quite exclusive, the use is restricted to the members of the royal family, former marine officers (perhaps there is some limit in rank) and the members of the Royal Yacht Squadron.

The White Ensign is reserved to the Royal Navy and the Royal Yacht Squaron. The Blue Ensign is a bit more common, it is used by members of the Royal Cruising Club and a number of other Yacht Clubs (I believe that most of them have the prefix Royal in their name.) The ensigns come in two categories ‘faced’ and ‘defaced’, i.e. there is some symbol on the face of the ensign referring to a certain club.

Yes, a number of clubs have permission to use the plain (undefaced) or defaced (with symbol) Blue Ensign. [Interesting historical stuff deleted] If I have some British subject on my boat, I can fly the Red Ensign on my port flagline.

Nice gesture, but see below If I sail to U.K. I fly the same on my starboard flagline.

A long-time custom of the sea. Some countries require this by law. If I charter a boat in some foreign country I fly the flag of the registration countty of the boat in the stern and my Finnish club flag or ensign on my port flagline.

Yes, if registered (see above) This rule should be clear, but I have a problmem: What shall I do, if I have guestos on my boat from several countries. I cannot possibly fly say, a German, Swedish, Danish and French flag of ensign on my port flag rope?

That’s the problem – to avoid international repercussions, all the national flags would have to be at the same height and of the same size. I hope to be in Finland next year or the year after, Lauri, so you can visit my boat to see that my flag etiquette is all it should be! Brian Gay

Response:

: My guess is that being "numbered" on a state register is not *official : registration*… However, I can cite a case where a boat was purchased in England and registered in Colorado.  It carried the CO number and annual sticker.  The only "paperwork" was the usual (approx) 3" x 3" card with a few (very few) details about the boat and the owner.  That was accepted by the customs of numerous countries around the Mediterranean, and in the Canary Islands, Cape Verde Islands and Martinique.  The only time it was no longer accepted as the *official registration* was when the boat was brought back to the States and permanently berthed in another state (not CO).  When I went to the customs in Martinique, there were several French boats that had all come in at the same time.  I was a bit nervous because they all had official-looking books registering their boats and all I had was this pathetic little bit of a card from Colorado (I wasn’t even named as the owner).  But the customs accepted it without any question.  You can’t get much more *official* than that The owner was American so the boat always flew the S & S.  We did fly the Red Duster as a courtesy flag in England. B.S!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There has been a long discussiion under the headline ‘UNION JACK’. The White Ensign is reserved to the Royal Navy and the Royal Yacht Squaron. The Blue Ensign is a bit more common, it is used by members of the Royal Cruising Club and a number of other Yacht Clubs (I believe that most of them have the prefix Royal in their name.) The ensigns come in two categories ‘faced’ and ‘defaced’, i.e. there is some symbol on the face of the ensign referring to a certain club. Yes, a number of clubs have permission to use the plain (undefaced) or defaced (with symbol) Blue Ensign.

I thought that the only club which could use an undefaced blue ensign was the Royal Southern Yacht Club in Hamble. Are there any others ? regards — Chris Cooper

Response:

Cooper) says: I thought that the only club which could use an undefaced blue ensign was the Royal Southern Yacht Club in Hamble. Are there any others ?

Yep:  the Royal Solent Yacht Club in Yarmouth, IoW, for one. Regards, Alister

Response:

: HMY Britannia has three masts, a jackstaff at her bow and a flagpole : at her stern. When she is under sail with HM the Queen onboard, what : flag goes where? Hm? HMY Britannia trivia: the ship’s name is not marked on any external part of the hull or superstructure. I don’t know if it is marked anywhere inside, not having been there myself. — Terry Steinford

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David Jaroslav writes:    David Hogg or Daan Sandee writes:            The UK Merchant Navy flies the Red Ensign,            a.k.a. the Red Duster, a red flag with the            Union Flag in the upper left.    That would be UK Merchant Marine; the only Navy in the UK    is the Royal Navy. To say "civilian Navy" would be an    oxymoron and merchant vessels are civilian ships. Codswallop. Merchant Navy is a legitimate term in common use. Let me quote THE OXFORD COMPANION TO SHIPS AND THE SEA:    MERCHANT NAVY, a collective name to describe the merchant    ships on the official registers of any one nation. It    embraces  merchant ships of all varieties, from passenger    liners and very large tankers and bulk carriers to small    coasters, but does not normally include vessels used in    fishing.

And just to confuse matters for you guys – (and a test of your knowledge) what flag do Royal Fleet Auxilairies fly????? (RFA’s) geoff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cap’n Fido GOBLIN

Response:

Here we go again. The Red Ensign is not limited to the Merchant Navy nor to the Merchant Navy + the fisherfolk which seems to define your class "Merchant Marine". All sailing and powered vessels – however small – may fly the Red Ensign (or the Blue if they are members of certain rarefied and Royal Yacht Clubs and Squadrons).

HMY Britannia is run by the Royal Navy and as such flies the White Ensign. I am fairly certain that the Blue Ensign is only flown by civilian vessels carrying ministers of the Crown, but I defer to your more expert knowledge on flag code concerning yachting. I certainly don’t see any particular reason why some clubs might not be granted permission to fly the Blue Ensign; many of their officers are reservists in the Royal Navy and as such would fly it anyway. It is a very common sight to see 16′ sailing craft flying the flag. Not, it seems, in inland waters tho’. However, for these smaller craft it seems a personal choice, a courtesy thing. It is only the Merchant Navy who are obliged to fly the flag. After all, these are documented ships which may be called upon to serve in time of war. Again, fisherfolk are not obliged – and often do not – fly the flag.

My point, at the ultimate beginning of this particular bit of vexillological discourse, was not that British fishing vessels had to fly the Red Ensign, but that they would be in the wrong (and most in violation of the law) to fly the White or Blue Ensign (or the RAF Ensign or the Trinity House Ensign or the Royal Northern Lights Commission Ensign, etc. etc.). They need not fly the flag, but if they do they are only permitted the Red Ensign. Cap’n Fido, who flies the Yacht Ensign of the US from the leech of GOBLIN Port of Redwood City

HMY Britannia has three masts, a jackstaff at her bow and a flagpole at her stern. When she is under sail with HM the Queen onboard, what flag goes where? Hm?                           "In the long run, we’re all dead."                                   -John Maynard Keynes

Response:

David Jaroslav writes:

        Francis Muir says:                 Codswallop. Merchant Navy is a legitimate term in common                 use. Let me quote THE OXFORD COMPANION TO SHIPS AND THE                 SEA:                         MERCHANT NAVY, a collective name to describe the                         merchant ships on the official registers of any                         one nation. It embraces  merchant ships of all                         varieties, from passenger liners and very large                         tankers and bulk carriers to small coasters, but                         does not normally include vessels used in fishing.         Mmm, mmm, I do love the taste of crow. Okay, I was wrong to         some extent, but I’m pretty that fishing vessels are  supposed         to fly their country’s merchant ensign. They are Merchant Marine,         but by your own definition not Merchant Navy; … Here we go again. The Red Ensign is not limited to the Merchant Navy nor to the Merchant Navy + the fisherfolk which seems to define your class "Merchant Marine". All sailing and powered vessels – however small – may fly the Red Ensign (or the Blue if they are members of certain rarefied and Royal Yacht Clubs and Squadrons). It is a very common sight to see 16′ sailing craft flying the flag. Not, it seems, in inland waters tho’. However, for these smaller craft it seems a personal choice, a courtesy thing. It is only the Merchant Navy who are obliged to fly the flag. After all, these are documented ships which may be called upon to serve in time of war. Again, fisherfolk are not obliged – and often do not – fly the flag. Cap’n Fido, who flies the Yacht Ensign of the US from the leech of GOBLIN Port of Redwood City

Response:

Codswallop. Merchant Navy is a legitimate term in common use. Let me quote THE OXFORD COMPANION TO SHIPS AND THE SEA:        MERCHANT NAVY, a collective name to describe the merchant        ships on the official registers of any one nation. It        embraces  merchant ships of all varieties, from passenger        liners and very large tankers and bulk carriers to small        coasters, but does not normally include vessels used in        fishing. Cap’n Fido GOBLIN

Mmm, mmm, I do love the taste of crow.     Okay, I was wrong to some extent, but I’m pretty that fishing vessels are  supposed to fly their country’s merchant ensign. They are Merchant Marine, but by your own definition not Merchant Navy; my statement that the UK Merchant Marine fly the Red Ensign is still correct (not just the Merchant Navy as a subset of the Merchant Marine).                       "In the long run, we’re all dead."                                -John Maynard Keynes

Response:

David Jaroslav writes:

        David Hogg or Daan Sandee writes:                 The UK Merchant Navy flies the Red Ensign,                 a.k.a. the Red Duster, a red flag with the                 Union Flag in the upper left.         That would be UK Merchant Marine; the only Navy in the UK         is the Royal Navy. To say "civilian Navy" would be an         oxymoron and merchant vessels are civilian ships. Codswallop. Merchant Navy is a legitimate term in common use. Let me quote THE OXFORD COMPANION TO SHIPS AND THE SEA:         MERCHANT NAVY, a collective name to describe the merchant         ships on the official registers of any one nation. It         embraces  merchant ships of all varieties, from passenger         liners and very large tankers and bulk carriers to small         coasters, but does not normally include vessels used in         fishing. Cap’n Fido GOBLIN

Response: