Question:

Looking for pattern for streamer called Howdy Doody. I believe that is the name of the fly. Seen it on a fishing show, so I haven’t heard of it before.. Can anyone help me…..

Response:

I tried an internet search and found no references to it. So feel free to make up a pattern and name it "Howdy Doody" Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking for pattern for streamer called Howdy Doody. I believe that is the name of the fly. Seen it on a fishing show, so I haven’t heard of it before.. Can anyone help me…..

Response:

I tried an internet search and found no references to it. So feel free to make up a pattern and name it "Howdy Doody"

Be sure it has bright red dubbing, freckles, and big ears.

Response:

Question:

Freezing cold and heavy snowfall. My feet were slowly going numb, and my fingers had long since turned blue with the cold. The old trick of plunging them into the freezing water to increase the circulation, and thus warm them up, had worked as usual, but the effects had long since worn off and I was really cold now. Neoprene gloves with fold back finger and thumb were little use, and so I removed them.Visibility was low because of the fairly dense snowfall, and the footing was treacherous over the rocks. Memories of my last fall in this spot on a day trip the previous  year, when I crashed heavily onto a rock with my right knee, and had to more or less crawl to the car being unable to walk, came to mind, and made me even more careful than usual.  Without the cushioning of the 5mm neoprene my kneecap would surely have been badly damaged, as it was it brought tears to my eyes, and my knee was swollen and all the colours of the rainbow for weeks. Digging my ski pole in carefully at every step I kept moving, staying at the waters edge, and only wading when absolutely necessary, to negotiate large boulders and the like. falling into this water would likely prove fatal very quickly, should I be stupid or careless enough to do so. The wind had dropped somewhat, to about a howling gale, and the rapidly swirling snow flakes stuck to my clothing and covered my head and shoulders, freezing to my spectacles and forcing me to shake my head occasionally to stop too large a build-up. Clammy cold damp reached through my neoprenes and made me shiver occasionally.  Very heavy overcast coupled with the snowstorm had turned the day very dark. I had started to fish just before  dawn, and had made my way slowly along three miles or so of the rocky coastline stopping to cast every ten feet or so, using main force to try and reach out as far as possible into the murk, lingering a little longer at some places which had proved successful in the past. Result ? nothing. Checking the watch on the lanyard in my top pocket, told me it was eleven thirty, and I had told my wife I would probably be back to the chalet for lunch, she had declined to accompany me, and decided to stay in the chalet with a good book instead.  Sensible person my wife. Just another hundred meters or so I thought, and then I will turn for home,  the group of large rocks at the headland is usually the best place anyway, as the sea-bed dips away into a deep channel quite close to shore. Takes come as the fly comes up over the lip of the channel where a large band of weed lines the shore, mostly cod, but occasionally a good seatrout, the lip of the channel is only about sixty feet from shore, and a good flat powerful cast should reach it, even in this wind.  Overwintering seatrout are often large, in excellent condition, and sometimes fight like fury, many maintain they taste better than any other fish bar none. Largish cod are not to be sniffed at either though, they fight much more doggedly than a seatrout, but are still exciting, and a five or even ten pounder on light gear is an experience not soon forgotten. Several such fish had fallen to my rod at this spot the previous year under similar conditions. Conventional gear was useless, and I had long since taken the fly reel and line off the rod, in fact within the first twenty minutes, and was using a casting float and fixed spool reel. Even with this rig it was hardly possible to cast more than fifty feet or so into the teeth of the wind. A slow sinking sliding float of thirty grams, a nine foot leader, and a shrimp fly had brought nothing as yet, not as much as a nibble.  I decided to change flies, and put on a much darker version of the shrimp fly, with a touch of red in the tail. The normally peaceful Baltic was crashing into the shore with unusual force, white horses whirling and dancing on the wave tops as far as it was possible to see, and although the water cleared quickly after every breaker, allowing one to see the bottom fairly well close in, I fancied something with a darker silhouette might do the trick, although my hopes of catching anything at all had diminished considerably. As usual I dangled the fly in the water in front of me, waiting for a break in the surf, allowing the float to settle slowly and then moving it to check the action of the fly more or less at my feet.  A small crab appeared as if from nowhere on the blank patch of sand,and seemed to want to grab the fly, scuttling after it and attempting to settle on it, and fascinated by this, I pulled the fly along slowly, just to see if the crab would be able to grab it.  Intent on this, I failed to notice the next breaker coming in and temporarily lost sight of the crab and fly, as the breaker stirred up sand colouring the water. A sudden jerk and my float shooting away along the shore at a rate of knots very nearly frightened me to death, the rod was almost jerked from my hand, and the drag on my reel started to whine unpleasantly, and I was absolutely flabbergasted. I did not strike or anything at all, in fact for quite a while I just stood there with the rod pointing straight along the shore, while the line cut into my index finger almost to the bone and the drag continued to whine. After what seemed like an age I finally had enough presence of mind to take my finger away from the line, and hit the fighting drag lever on the reel, the drag which was giving off what I hoped was just steam, slowed to a rather more leisurely rate, and eventually stopped. Everything went slack, and rather annoyed with myself. but still more surprised than anything else, I started to reel in.  Must have been one hell of a fish that, I thought, reeling in at moderate speed, you bloody idiot, fancy losing a fish like that, I cursed myself, and then everything went tight again ! Bloody hell, hung up as well !   Then the "snag" started moving again. After about ten minutes of pumping, a few peculiarly powerful long, and some short dogged runs, which were most unlike any fight I had experienced before, and during which all sorts of ideas of monster seatrout and salmon went through my mind, and more pumping, I finally saw the fish, a large cod foul hooked in the dorsal fin !  Too large to risk beaching it, I unslung my net and landed it knee deep in the surf, in considerable danger of being swept off my feet by the breakers. I despatched the fish, which coughed up a fair number of small crabs, and after weighing it laid it on a large rock behind me. Just over eleven pounds showed on my scale which is fairly accurate.  Oh well, I thought, not exactly the fine English art of fly angling, but a nice fish anyway, and inspected my leader and fly for signs of chafing or other damage.  Getting ready for another Herculean cast into the teeth of the wind, I suddenly thought better of it, and just swung the float and fly about ten feet from shore, letting the fly be pulled along by the float and tumbling in the surf.  Bang !  it had not gone three yards when the float shot away again, and after a much shorter battle a nice plump six pound cod  joined its mate on the rock behind me.  Six casts and six fish followed in fairly quick succession. Sweating now, all thoughts of cold forgotten, I decided on "just one more cast" before packing up.  I had over forty pounds of fish to clean and pack back to the chalet, and that was more than enough for our freezer requirements for this year. The sky had lightened up somewhat, and the snow had stopped falling, visibility was steadily increasing, and although the wind had dropped somewhat the spray was still lashing in with force, occasionally giving me a good soaking, my face was numb, and all attempts to dry my hands on the towel from my bag failed miserably as it was already soaking wet.  Plunging my hands into the icy water one more time, and hoping for the best, I changed my chafed leader with no little difficulty, tied on a new fly of the same type and size, a rather brown "Baltic woolly", with a touch of red in the tail, a type of woolly bugger which is a very good shrimp imitation, and might just conceivably be mistaken for a crab, and decided to try reaching the lip of the channel. A forceful whirling side cast using all the power of the thirteen foot one and a half pound test carp rod, keeping the trajectory as flat as possible, ended abruptly, as the float struck the water about thirty feet out, my numb fingers had caused me to mistimed the release.  Relatively slight tangles formed as the wind caught the line and blew it off the reel spool.  This was soon sorted and I took up tension on the line prior to retrieving fairly fast for another try.  Wham !  an almighty jerk on the end of the line bent the rod well over, and the drag started whining immediately as the fish headed straight for the deep water channel.  Just as well, if it dived for the weeds  it would be gone.  This was no foul hooked cod, but obviously a decent seatrout, and as if to confirm my observations it leapt from the water about a hundred  feet away, coming down with a large splash which could be heard even over the sound of wind and waves.  A very nice fish indeed, which must be kept out of the weeds at all costs. I loosened the drag lever somewhat, seatrout often come off if forced too hard, and  settled down to the fight. Several long screaming runs followed by spectacular leaps followed, with the fish coming ever closer to the weed bank lining the shore. The trick at this location is to tire the fish out as much as possible in the clear water beyond the weed banks, before bringing it in. This is however often much easier said than done. This was a very powerful fish, and was still showing little sign of tiring, I loosened the drag a little more, hoping that the hookhold would not fail due to the prolonged fight, and awaited developments. Several more runs and leaps followed.and then head shaking and short deep bursts of speed toward the bottom … read more »

Response:

Mike, you are clearly an ignoramus when it comes to cod. Cod fillet (those gorgeous, toothsome white flakes) battered and deep fried in beef dripping, with chips, is one of the great Epicurean experiences of the world. It is a meal redolent of the the cool open air after the cinema or pub. It evokes memories of young love; of soft-sweatered pulchritude and youthful vigour. Ah, the smell of it; the tang of malt vinegar and coarse salt…

Stop it, you’re making me hungry! I knew that cod tasted good. I knew that the flesh was white and flaky. I just thought that they were a little ugly and lived in deep and really cold water. (I mean, you have to admit that they don’t have the sleek predatory good looks of a spotted bass, or the colors of a spawning rainbow, and I didn’t think fish were supposed to have beards…) Besides, the inland US doesn’t have much cod, but have you ever hooked into a bigmouth bass? That’s a ride you won’t soon forget. "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

Response:

Stop it Tony, you unleash guttural powers you don’t want to know about. Is it hereby concluded that you’ll take care of lunch at the Flyfair? Drooling on my keyboard, Herman Mike, you are clearly an ignoramus when it comes to cod. Cod fillet (those gorgeous, toothsome white flakes) battered and deep fried in beef dripping, with chips, is one of the great Epicurean experiences of the world. It is a meal redolent of the the cool open air after the cinema or pub. It evokes memories of young love; of soft-sweatered pulchritude and youthful vigour. Ah, the smell of it; the tang of malt vinegar and coarse salt… Suggest you read: ‘Cod – The Biography of the Fish that Changed the World’, by Mark Kurlansky and published (1997) in the US by Walker Publishing Co. Inc. ISBN 0-224-05104-0. It’s a very interesting book, though perhaps a rather surprising ‘best seller’. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Stop it Tony, you unleash guttural powers you don’t want to know about. Is it hereby concluded that you’ll take care of lunch at the Flyfair? Drooling on my keyboard, Herman

I’ll stand you and Mike Connor a lunch Herman, but sadly I don’t think it will be cod. My car is only a little one and I fear my other passengers might object if I came over loaded up with cod, potatoes and deep fryer, etc.! By a strange coincidence, they were talking about cod on BBC Radio 4 today. The price has rocketed as stocks have declined. There was even an interview with Mark Kurlansky (who wrote the book) over in New York. We are very lucky as we have an excellent fish n’ chip shop in Tunbridge Wells, our nearest big town. It regularly wins the prize for the best in the south east of England. My wife just e-mailed to ask: ‘What’s for dinner tonight?’ Problem solved! I’m looking forward to Fly Fair. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Herman’s post on Cod is a new one for me. How about in the US, on the Pacific Coast, are folks fishing the shallows at nite for young Cod? Id like to try that. Anyone know more per the PNW coast? Dave

There’s a fish they catch here in Northern California (not on the fly) called a "ling cod". It’s about the scariest looking thing I’ve ever seen. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

There’s a fish they catch here in Northern California (not on the fly) called a "ling cod". It’s about the scariest looking thing I’ve ever seen.

It’s related to the scorpionfishes and rock cod.  Like the rock cod, the ling is not a cod. If I remember correctly it doesn’t suffer from decompression as you haul it up from the depths of the ocean.  It fights you all the way.  Cab grow to 5 feet. http://www.psmfc.org/habitat/edu_lingcod_fact.html Mu

Response:

By "Cod," do you mean _Gadus morhua_? Big ugly thing with pasty white flesh and three dorsal fins? I always thought that they were a fish for deep and frigid water, but it wouldn’t be the first time today that I was wrong about something.

Mike, you are clearly an ignoramus when it comes to cod. Cod fillet (those gorgeous, toothsome white flakes) battered and deep fried in beef dripping, with chips, is one of the great Epicurean experiences of the world. It is a meal redolent of the the cool open air after the cinema or pub. It evokes memories of young love; of soft-sweatered pulchritude and youthful vigour. Ah, the smell of it; the tang of malt vinegar and coarse salt… Suggest you read: ‘Cod – The Biography of the Fish that Changed the World’, by Mark Kurlansky and published (1997) in the US by Walker Publishing Co. Inc. ISBN 0-224-05104-0. It’s a very interesting book, though perhaps a rather surprising ‘best seller’. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

[snipped excellent report] … Brrrr … Thanks, Steve — "Experience must be the teacher in this game – not only your own  but the other man’s" – Dick Wigram http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/SIEACCIDENTALLYSPLATTEREDBACKONEDAY

Response:

Mike, I’ll call/mail you as soon as I can arrange some days off! And, judging from your post, I’ll pack my old carp rod as well.. Cheers, Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I go fairly regularly Herman, any time you fancy a trip ( couple of days if you like ), just drop me a mail and we can arrange it.  I can be at a number of good places on the Danish coast within three hours from where I live, so can also do day-trips etc without any problem.  At this time of year, and earlier, a good seatrout is not a common occurrence, but it does happen. Cod are mostly caught, depending on weather etc, some big ones.  The herring will be in soon, and both cod and seatrout hunt these shoals, and you can have excellent sport then. You can catch plenty of herring on the fly as well if you are so inclined.  The trip report is perfectly true by the way, but I must admit that it was my best trip this year. I caught quite a lot less on other trips, in fact actually blanking once, and though this is rare, it does happen.  I know a few people who have fished for two years or more without catching one single seatrout. I must be lucky, I have caught quite a few, some large ones as well. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de An even bigger wonder is that one doesn’t even care any more. True or

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Cod are mostly caught, depending on weather etc, some big ones.

By "Cod," do you mean _Gadus morhua_? Big ugly thing with pasty white flesh and three dorsal fins? I always thought that they were a fish for deep and frigid water, but it wouldn’t be the first time today that I was wrong about something. "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

Response:

Not sure about the latin, but big, ugly and, don’t forget, _tasty_ sort of describes it. The big boys and girls are normally caught in deep water, but the kids play and hunt in the shallows, especially at night. Feeding on shrimps, crabs and other edible critters, they can turn an otherwise fishless seatrout fishing night into a ball. Those kids are already big strong fish, by the way.. and did I mention _very_ good to eat yet? <g Herman By "Cod," do you mean _Gadus morhua_? Big ugly thing with pasty white flesh and three dorsal fins? I always thought that they were a fish for deep and frigid water, but it wouldn’t be the first time today that I was wrong about something. "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Herman’s post on Cod is a new one for me. How about in the US, on the Pacific Coast, are folks fishing the shallows at nite for young Cod? Id like to try that. Anyone know more per the PNW coast? Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not sure about the latin, but big, ugly and, don’t forget, _tasty_ sort of describes it. The big boys and girls are normally caught in deep water, but the kids play and hunt in the shallows, especially at night. Feeding on shrimps, crabs and other edible critters, they can turn an otherwise fishless seatrout fishing night into a ball. Those kids are already big strong fish, by the way.. and did I mention _very_ good to eat yet? <g Herman By "Cod," do you mean _Gadus morhua_? Big ugly thing with pasty white flesh and three dorsal fins? I always thought that they were a fish for deep and frigid water, but it wouldn’t be the first time today that I was wrong about something. "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos — Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Correct.  In the Baltic and some other places ( English North sea and similar), these fish come in close to forage, especially on crustaceans and herring. Fairly large fish may be caught in relatively shallow water. They will even "rise" to flies fished on the surface,especially at twilight, at night , or on heavily overcast days.  My best fish to date from the shore was thirty one pounds, but I got that one on a pirk, not on a fly. My best fly caught fish was about twenty pounds, but I don’t know exactly as it was not weighed.  These fish are game fighters, excellent to eat, (especially smoked with my secret recipe ! ), and although completely unlike trout can be very attractive indeed. Their markings and behaviour depend to a considerable extent on the areas they frequent. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Looking forward to hearing from you Herman. You can stay at my place no problem.  Definitely bring the carp rod. I have enough other gear for you to use if you need anything else. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Not sure about the latin, but big, ugly and, don’t forget, _tasty_ sort of describes it.

Flaky white flesh, pretty durned good smoked? That’s the very one. Cod are definitely yummy. If only there were enough that they weren’t a special order here. The closest that we have in the inland US are Burbot, and they’re just not the same. Of course, we do have the various black basses, so we’re all happy "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

Response:

Freezing cold and heavy snowfall. My feet were slowly going numb, and my fingers had long since turned blue with the cold. The old trick of plunging them into the freezing water to increase the circulation, and thus warm them up, had worked as usual, but the effects had long since worn off and I was really cold now. Neoprene gloves with fold back finger and thumb were little use, and so I removed them.Visibility was low because of the fairly dense snowfall, and the footing was treacherous over the rocks.

(great report snipped)         the wonder of very well written prose is that one has substantial difficulty in separating truth from fiction.  well done, pommy. wayno

Response:

An even bigger wonder is that one doesn’t even care any more. True or not (possibly true, the weather description was familiar!), thanks Mike! I’m quite sure the temperature dropped five degress while I was reading this report. Next time when you go, could you make some room for a Dutchman? I can take my own rum.. Cheers, Herman (great report snipped, indeed!)         the wonder of very well written prose is that one has substantial difficulty in separating truth from fiction.  well done, pommy. wayno

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

I go fairly regularly Herman, any time you fancy a trip ( couple of days if you like ), just drop me a mail and we can arrange it.  I can be at a number of good places on the Danish coast within three hours from where I live, so can also do day-trips etc without any problem.  At this time of year, and earlier, a good seatrout is not a common occurrence, but it does happen. Cod are mostly caught, depending on weather etc, some big ones.  The herring will be in soon, and both cod and seatrout hunt these shoals, and you can have excellent sport then. You can catch plenty of herring on the fly as well if you are so inclined.  The trip report is perfectly true by the way, but I must admit that it was my best trip this year. I caught quite a lot less on other trips, in fact actually blanking once, and though this is rare, it does happen.  I know a few people who have fished for two years or more without catching one single seatrout. I must be lucky, I have caught quite a few, some large ones as well. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An even bigger wonder is that one doesn’t even care any more. True or

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw this post and it reminded me of my dad’s "proud papa" moment.  He took me out flyfishing (he let me hold the rod anyway) when I was about three year of age.  A small Rainbow trout happened to hit the gray hackle yellow body that was being used.  And, I landed my first fish on a fly.  My dad made such a big deal out of it that I just knew that fish was a treasure to be kept.  He could not talk me into releasing it.  So, I took it home with me and much to the chagrin of my mother, dad allowed me to go to bed that night with fish in hand.  I’ve been flyfishing with my dad ever since and he’s now in his 80’s. Barry My little boy, who turned 4 on Sunday, caught his FIRST fish today!!! (ok, it was with a worm)  It was a 10" Brown trout and you’ve never seen a little boy so happy and proud in your life. Just thought I’d share a "proud papa" moment. Wes        i know it is one hell of a judgment call, but i think that the experience related in wes’s post is more important than the life of that single fish.

        somewhere in the acceptance of that concept lies the middle ground for all our discontent that flows from the c&k/c&r confrontations.         a. wayne harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw this post and it reminded me of my dad’s "proud papa" moment.  He took me out flyfishing (he let me hold the rod anyway) when I was about three year of age.  A small Rainbow trout happened to hit the gray hackle yellow body that was being used.  And, I landed my first fish on a fly.  My dad made such a big deal out of it that I just knew that fish was a treasure to be kept.  He could not talk me into releasing it.  So, I took it home with me and much to the chagrin of my mother, dad allowed me to go to bed that night with fish in hand.  I’ve been flyfishing with my dad ever since and he’s now in his 80’s. Barry      i know it is one hell of a judgment call, but i think that the experience related in wes’s post is more important than the life of that single fish.         somewhere in the acceptance of that concept lies the middle ground for all our discontent that flows from the c&k/c&r confrontations.         a. wayne harrison

Jeeezz, Wayne, let’s not turn the great "Proud Papa" thread into another c&k/c&r debacle.  Mark Faulkner

Response:

says… My little boy, who turned 4 on Sunday, caught his FIRST fish today!!! (ok, it was with a worm)  It was a 10" Brown trout and you’ve never seen a little boy so happy and proud in your life. Just thought I’d share a "proud papa" moment. Wes

cool…

Response:

I saw this post and it reminded me of my dad’s "proud papa" moment.  He took me out flyfishing (he let me hold the rod anyway) when I was about three year of age.  A small Rainbow trout happened to hit the gray hackle yellow body that was being used.  And, I landed my first fish on a fly.  My dad made such a big deal out of it that I just knew that fish was a treasure to be kept.  He could not talk me into releasing it.  So, I took it home with me and much to the chagrin of my mother, dad allowed me to go to bed that night with fish in hand.  I’ve been flyfishing with my dad ever since and he’s now in his 80’s. Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My little boy, who turned 4 on Sunday, caught his FIRST fish today!!! (ok, it was with a worm)  It was a 10" Brown trout and you’ve never seen a little boy so happy and proud in your life. Just thought I’d share a "proud papa" moment. Wes

Response:

My little boy, who turned 4 on Sunday, caught his FIRST fish today!!! (ok, it was with a worm)  It was a 10" Brown trout and you’ve never seen a little boy so happy and proud in your life. Just thought I’d share a "proud papa" moment. Wes

Response:

My little boy, who turned 4 on Sunday, caught his FIRST fish today!!! (ok, it was with a worm)  It was a 10" Brown trout and you’ve never seen a little boy so happy and proud in your life. Just thought I’d share a "proud papa" moment. Wes    that’s great, wes, worm or no worm.  i just hope he didn’t release the fish and eat the bait.

        a. wayne harrison

Response:

My little boy, who turned 4 on Sunday, caught his FIRST fish today!!! (ok, it was with a worm)  It was a 10" Brown trout and you’ve never seen a little boy so happy and proud in your life. Just thought I’d share a "proud papa" moment. Wes

Congratulations, and thanks for sharing the momemnt. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Question:

I just noticed in his new book, "A Pirate Looks At Fifty," that Jimmy Buffett seems to be an avid flyfisherman. Anyone know any good stories about Jimmy and flyfishing? Is he strictly a saltwater fisherman? Or does he ever go after trout? (The mountains don’t seem to be his style!) Better yet…has anyone ever tried to go fishing with him? (We flyfishermen might be able to get a little closer to him than the ordinary Parrothead! <grin) Scott Wilkinson Quasi-Parrothead

Response:

Jimmy Buffett used to live in Aspen and may still have a place there.  I think he moved there after his time in Key West.  He wanted to be around guys who liked girls. DP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just noticed in his new book, "A Pirate Looks At Fifty," that Jimmy Buffett seems to be an avid flyfisherman. Anyone know any good stories about Jimmy and flyfishing? Is he strictly a saltwater fisherman? Or does he ever go after trout? (The mountains don’t seem to be his style!) Better yet…has anyone ever tried to go fishing with him? (We flyfishermen might be able to get a little closer to him than the ordinary Parrothead! <grin) Scott Wilkinson Quasi-Parrothead

Response:

: Jimmy Buffett used to live in Aspen and may still have a place there.  I : think he moved there after his time in Key West.  He wanted to be around : guys who liked girls. Thanks for keeping us posted. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Scott, Only stories I know of Jimmy are shrimping, jubilees, mullet in Mobile bay, and drinks at Judge Roy Bean’s. -Adam

Response:

I just noticed in his new book, "A Pirate Looks At Fifty," that Jimmy Buffett seems to be an avid flyfisherman. Anyone know any good stories about Jimmy and flyfishing? Is he strictly a saltwater fisherman? Or does he ever go after trout? (The mountains don’t seem to be his style!) Better yet…has anyone ever tried to go fishing with him? (We flyfishermen might be able to get a little closer to him than the ordinary Parrothead! <grin) Scott Wilkinson Quasi-Parrothead

Hi Scott, I was fishing in the Keys about 10 years ago fishing with a friend, Steve Chapell, who lives on Marathon Key. One evening he showed me a poor video copy of a movie that was made by a group of Key West fly fishers? He said a prince from Spain?, Guy Valdeen(sp) was partly responsible for the short film. Jimmy did the sound tack for the movie. It showed fly fishers casting to tarpon with beautiful music and then would it would switch to wild music with a party boat. The deck was covered with blood from killing fish. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Jimmy used to hang around with Harrison, McGuane, Fonda and that bunch in the keys and in Livingston, Mt.  I’m sure he has been exposed to both fresh and saltwater flyfishing.  He also reportedly has the quail bug. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just noticed in his new book, "A Pirate Looks At Fifty," that Jimmy Buffett seems to be an avid flyfisherman. Anyone know any good stories about Jimmy and flyfishing? Is he strictly a saltwater fisherman? Or does he ever go after trout? (The mountains don’t seem to be his style!) Better yet…has anyone ever tried to go fishing with him? (We flyfishermen might be able to get a little closer to him than the ordinary Parrothead! <grin) Scott Wilkinson Quasi-Parrothead

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I just noticed in his new book, "A Pirate Looks At Fifty," that Jimmy Buffett seems to be an avid flyfisherman. Anyone know any good stories about Jimmy and flyfishing? Is he strictly a saltwater fisherman? Or does he ever go after trout? (The mountains don’t seem to be his style!) Better yet…has anyone ever tried to go fishing with him? (We flyfishermen might be able to get a little closer to him than the ordinary Parrothead! <grin)

Not sure about Jimmy Buffet and Flyfishing but I’ve also heard that Marilyn Manson is an avid angler.  Anyone know whether Marilyn is into flyfishing? Anyone care to post any amusing anecdotes concerning Marilyn and fish? Thanks.

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Never heard of Marilyn Mason – where does she live?

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Not sure about Jimmy Buffet and Flyfishing but I’ve also heard that Marilyn Manson is an avid angler.  Anyone know whether Marilyn is into flyfishing? Anyone care to post any amusing anecdotes concerning Marilyn and fish?

What, he bites the heads off the trout? -Marcus

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Never heard of Marilyn Mason – where does she live?

*HE* is a shock rocker.  Very wierd looking, angry music, etc etc.  The teenagers adore him. check out http://www.marilyn-manson.net/  for scary pictures and stuff.

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Never heard of Marilyn Mason – where does she live?

He dwells in your worst nightmares….

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My worst nightmare is about many raising fish and the wrong fly!!

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If I need to see something scary, I check out my mirror (especially in the early AM.)

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*HE* is a shock rocker.  Very wierd looking, angry music, etc etc.  The teenagers adore him. check out http://www.marilyn-manson.net/  for scary pictures and stuff.

I’ve heard this freak was a nerdy kid on some TV show that was modestly popular 6 or 7 years ago.  As for checking out a site about this geek…think I’d rather step on a nail. Patrick

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I heard that Jimmy has a place out in the hamptons in LI, NY and owns a 20′ Hewes flats boat!! He flyfishes for stripers and everything! Capt. Paul

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I’ve seen a picture of Buffett standing on a partially sunken (and rusted out ship) with what appears to be a fly rod with yellow fly line in his hand. I think this picture is on the box set…….

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In his book, "In Search of Joe Merchant" he talks about flyfishing for bonefish.  Believe that he did also inthe book "Margaritaville". Herb

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I heard that Jimmy has a place out in the hamptons in LI, NY and owns a 20′ Hewes flats boat!! He flyfishes for stripers and everything! Capt. Paul

In his book that just came out, "A Pirate Looks at Fifty", he talks about flyfishing a lot.  The guy’s a fanatic!!  He even went flyfishing in Costa Rica (for blue marlin!).

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Question:

I very much doubt you could break an 8lb tippet with a 5wt rod without either seriously damaging the rod or pointing the rod straight at the fish. The secret of all fishing is to use balanced tackle, that way you can use your tackle to it’s maximum without running the risk of damaging it. — Regards Peter Kay (Remove "nospam" to email)  :The guy is full of unmitigated bull hooie.  The tippet is the defining :element.  If you can break the tippet with the rod, and the tippet is

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How tightly do you set your drag?  If you point your rod tip towards the fish and set the drag higher than when fishing with a 4 lb tippet then sure you will definitely apply more pressure.  Your drag setting and how you hold the rod while fighting fish will determine the answer to your question.  My guess is that you’ve got the drag setting at less than 4 lbs (would you dare jiggle a 1/2 gallon carton of milk from the end of your 6 wt rod?).  So the guy at the shop is probably right.

Sorry Mu, You’re wrong, and so is the guy in the shop. Drag has nothing to do with it, the breaking strength of the tippet and how much pressure you can put to the fish as a result of that breaking strength is the question here The size of the rod only matters in regards to the weight of the line when casting and in your desire to keep that rod intact when playing a fish. If you are using 4 lb. tippet on an 8 wt. rod there is no way you can apply as much pressure on the fish than you can with an equivalent length rod in 6 wt. and 8 lb. tippet. The only reason that it would be better for the fish to use a 4 lb. tippet is that the fish will probably break off sooner and recover faster. Any steelhead worth half his salt would destroy a 4 lb. tippet in seconds. If the angler was very skilled he would be able to baby that fish in eventually, but at what price? The fish will be mortally exhausted from a half hour struggle to the beach. Chances of recovery of this fish is poor. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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I thought a conundrum was what you wore for safe sex!!

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<< I thought a conundrum was what you wore for safe sex!! Nope, that’s a carborundrum.  A conundrum is is a kind of Arabian boss.

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You are thinking of a condominium. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO http://users.ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought a conundrum was what you wore for safe sex!!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  The rod wt does make a difference. If you are fighting a 2lb trout with say 6x tippet you are more likely to land the fish with a 4wt rod then a 6wt rod. The 4wt is more giving at any given drag setting and will absorb the shock of the fishes fight. The more severe the struggle the more a lighter rod helps. I’ve seen newby fishermen (or bass fishermen new to flyfishing) loose lots of fish with a 6wt rod. I give them my 4 wt and they land the fish. So the shock absorption is for both ends of the rod (fish and fisherman’s action.)  So you have to set the drag down for a stiffer rod given the same fish and tippet. Few fish are lost just due to a slow steady pull of a fish where the drag setting only is the consideration, but rather to a fish jerking the line and adding to the pull. I guess said in another way a 2 lb weight is less likely to break a tippet then a 2 lb fish since one is a dynamic force that exceeds a 2lb pull. Sorry Mu, You’re wrong, and so is the guy in the shop. Drag has nothing to do with it, the breaking strength of the tippet and how much pressure you can put to the fish as a result of that breaking strength is the question here The size of the rod only matters in regards to the weight of the line when casting and in your desire to keep that rod intact when playing a fish. If you are using 4 lb. tippet on an 8 wt. rod there is no way you can apply as much pressure on the fish than you can with an equivalent length rod in 6 wt. and 8 lb. tippet. The only reason that it would be better for the fish to use a 4 lb. tippet is that the fish will probably break off sooner and recover faster. Any steelhead worth half his salt would destroy a 4 lb. tippet in seconds. If the angler was very skilled he would be able to baby that fish in eventually, but at what price? The fish will be mortally exhausted from a half hour struggle to the beach. Chances of recovery of this fish is poor.

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I think anyone who actually believes that an 8-weight rod can’t put more pressure on a fish than a 6-weight rod has never caught fish big enough to show them the difference. Take the two rods out striper fishing this spring with a ten-pound tippet on each and you’ll be immediately enlightened.   I can’t believe this thread has gone on so long. Bob Scott

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To some extent it doesn’t matter, although it depends how good a fisherman you are. The best way to put max pressure on a fish is to point the rod directly at the fish; but then it doesn’t matter what the rod weight is! To put the least pressure on a fish, you hold the rod vertical, at which angle a 15 foot 10 weight only puts about two pound pull on a fish. You can demonstrate this with a spring balance, although this will give a higher reading than expected – remember that the fish can’t exactly dig its heels in. Any angle below 45 degrees begins to put a fish under pressure, and the stiffness of the rod and the efficiency of the reel drag will begin to count. However, if the fish is a long way out, and a deal of line is drowned, then other factors are in play which alter your ability to exert pressure. I have seen a guide stop a bonefish in its tracks using an eight pound tippet simply by pointing the rod directly at the fish. I have seen the same done with a chinook. Mind, it is dull compared to playing them… Andrew Andrew N. Herd Associate Editor, Waterlog Magazine http://www.demon.co.uk/medlarpress/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastized for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told thet I shold be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, becauseI have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutly no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statment on his part true? Andrew

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pressure on a fish than a 6-weight rod has never caught fish big enough to show them the difference.

is a 20 pound sleelhead big enough? or how about a thirty pound plus chinook? Take the two rods out striper fishing this spring with a ten-pound tippet on each and you’ll be immediately enlightened.

Ten pound tippet is ten pounds breaking strength, with a 6 or an 8 it is still ten pounds. If I put enough pressure on a tippet to break the tippet that is ten pounds, be it with a six or eight that is irrelevant. The big difference is that it is easier to cast the big flies a longer distance. I can’t believe this thread has gone on so long.

That’s an invitation to a flame war Bob Scott

Andrew McFarland

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The way that I look at this is that, like Andrew said, ten puonds is ten pounds. One could land a 1500 pound marlin on a 4 wt (heavy leader, naturally) if he had around 2000 yards of backing. Any fish can be landed on any wieght. Just with one rod, the fish might be exhausted and another rod would make the fight last 15 seconds. A six weight is fine. Bryce

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  I think anyone who actually believes that an 8-weight rod can’t put more   pressure on a fish than a 6-weight rod has never caught fish big enough to   show them the difference.   <SNIP   Bob Scott

YES!  And why the hell one would confuse the issue by forcing the stronger rod to have lighter tippet is beyond me.  Apples to apples.   8wt is stiffer than 6wt.  8wt allows the possibility of putting more pressure on a fish than 6wt.  It is that simple. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

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Ten pound tippet is ten pounds breaking strength, with a 6 or an 8 it is still ten pounds. If I put enough pressure on a tippet to break the tippet that is ten pounds, be it with a six or eight that is irrelevant. I can’t believe this thread has gone on so long. That’s an invitation to a flame war Andrew McFarland

Not an invitation to a flame war at all.   Here’s the deal: naturally, the tippet strength is the limiting factor of the TOTAL AMOUNT of pressure you can put on the fish, regardless of rod weight rating.  But it’s not that simple.   The rod is applying pressure to the fish anytime it is flexed against him, whether the fish is moving away or not.  The pressure varies with the amount of flex put in the rod, angle the rod is held, etc.  This pressure comes from the rod’s desire to maintain its original, straight shape.  Since it takes more pressure to bend a similar-length 8-weight rod than a 6-weight rod, to the same arc, the heavier rod exerts more pressure on the fish as it tries to straighten… even when the fish isn’t moving, and regardless of the tippet strength or drag setting.  Follow me?     You’ve got to try it for yourself.   Like I said, take the two sized rods, set the drags the same with a scale, and fight a few big fish.  The heavier rod will whip them quicker.   The relentless pull of a flexed rod really tires the fish.  When the fish runs, the drag pressure dogs him.  But when he’s not running away, the pressure of the rod trying to straighten is what is pulling on him.  A heavier rod pulls harder. Bob Scott

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think anyone who actually believes that an 8-weight rod can’t put more pressure on a fish than a 6-weight rod has never caught fish big enough to show them the difference. Take the two rods out striper fishing this spring with a ten-pound tippet on each and you’ll be immediately enlightened.   I can’t believe this thread has gone on so long. Bob Scott    This is sooo true. The fish has to work much harder against an     8 wt rod.   –tony

You all want to pass some of that stuff yer smokin’?  I’ve caught plenty of fish in the size range to be able to tell the difference – Silvers, steelhead, chums.  My six weight Sage can break a fish off on undamaged climax 2x tippet (about 10lb test), if held right on a strong enough fish. My 8 wgt can break heavier tippet, so what.  With 2x tippet, it simply cannot pull harder than the six weight, since both are capable of breaking the line.   This is explained by an obscure branch of science known as physics.   What you all are saying is the equivalent of saying that a pickup can tow more than a bicycle, even though they are both connected to the trailer by 8 lb test.  Replace the connection with a log chain, and you’re correct.  However, log chain is fairly poor in it’s energy transference to the fly.  Tough to tie a clinch knot, as well. In the range of tippets that the fellow is talking about, with the rods he is talking about,  the six weight is fine for steelhead. I had ample opportunity to experiment in this area two years ago when I broke my 8 weight on a salmon, and had to finish the trip catching salmon with the six weight.  After the trip, came back and was fishing sea run cutts.  Hooked a big one, and still had the Alaska strike instinct (rear back hard, pull hard with the line hand).  Popped the fly in one of the biggest cutthroats I’ve ever seen, who entertained me and my buddy with three jumps down stream, fly still in his jaw. 3x tippet, good knots, 6 wgt.  I know whereof I speak… — Andrew Brunette

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The 6wt rod I am referring to is a Sage 690 sp+ that is a  stiff rod, I can put LOTS of pressure on a fish. I have yet to meet a steelie that the rod couldn’t handle, I keep a short line and fight the fish using angles. In other words, I keep the rod in opposite to the direction of movement of the fish, to the side. I find that after watching the other guys up here use their 8wts for steelies they don’t put anywhere near the amount of pressure that I do. they mostly use 6lb tippet, some times going down to 4lb, I never use anything less than 8lb. If that prevents me from catching fish so be it, but if it makes the difference between me catching fish and then over playing them then I will not do that. I have out fished guys using 8wts with 4 lb and even float fishermen. I feel that I can put the coals on just as much with those guys. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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 My six weight Sage can break a fish off on undamaged climax 2x tippet (about 10lb test), if held right on a strong enough fish. My 8 wgt can break heavier tippet, so what.  With 2x tippet, it simply cannot pull harder than the six weight, since both are capable of breaking the line.   This is explained by an obscure branch of science known as physics.

…that you obviously have no grasp of. You didn’t read or comprehend my post. And, by the way,  my two-weight can break an undamaged 10lb. tippet, too, if "held right."   You are not breaking that tippet with rod pressure. If your six weight can lift ten pounds, I’ll eat my eight and nine weight rods.  Like the other guy said, go ahead and put a ten-pound weight on the floor, put some heavy tippet on your miracle six-weight, get out your warranty card, and try to lift it up.  I know you won’t try it.   An eight-weight will lift more weight (still not ten pounds!) — apply more pressure — than a six-weight.  Period. Why do you think people use 12-weights to fight big tarpon?  Because they need a 12-weight to cast a lightly-dressed 3/0 fly?   Not. Dan Gracia, why don’t you jump in on this one?  You have a great way of explaining things. Bob Scott

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If your six weight can lift ten pounds, I’ll eat my eight and nine weight rods.  Like the other guy said, go ahead and put a ten-pound weight on the floor, put some heavy tippet on your miracle six-weight, get out your warranty card, and try to lift it up.  I know you won’t try it.   An eight-weight will lift more weight (still not ten pounds!) — apply more pressure — than a six-weight.  Period. Why do you think people use 12-weights to fight big tarpon?  Because they need a 12-weight to cast a lightly-dressed 3/0 fly?   Not.

I think you have all forgotten the original "conondrum" , whether a 6 wt with 8 lb test can apply  an equal amt of pressure as 8wt with 4lb tippet. to compare these two factors we apply logic and search for least common denominator between the two. For our purposes we will settle on the 4lb tippet. While on an equal basis, an 8wt rod will be able to apply more pressure than a 6wt, in this situation, the most amt of pressure the 8wt rod will be able to apply is 4lbs before the leader breaks. Likewise, the 6wt rod with 4lb leader will max out at 4lbs of pressure before the leader breaks.( hopefully we can all agree that a 6wt is capable of breaking 4lb tippet even though it may not be capable of breaking anything higher.) Since the 8wt is limited to 4 lb test, the real question becomes whether or not a 6 wt can apply more than 4lbs of pressure given the chance by using a stronger tippet, say 8lbs. whether it can or not doesn’t matter. the "conondrum" has been answered. Both rods will be able to apply at least 4 lbs of pressure, so in this exact situation, it doesn’t make a difference which setup you use, as both will be able to apply at least the same amt of pressure, so using a 6wt doesn’t put you at any diadvantage compared to the 8wt. Unaccounted factors: 1)No one ever uses their full tippet breaking strength. Applying 4 lbs of pressure to a 4 lb tippet is inviting disaster. 2lbs would be more like it, but we won’t take this into consideration as it will bring up more "conundrums". 2) Whether you can lift a weight with your rod is not a realistic comparison of breaking strength.it doesn’t take into account the speed of the pressure application and water tension which equally apply in real situations.                    

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I was in the local flyshop and was chastized for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told thet I shold be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure?

The 6wt with 8lb tippet can put on more pressure. Ligther, more flexable rods protect tippets better. A lighter rod will flex more in the butt but you can still put pressure on the fish. The only reason people say you can’t put pressure on is fear of breaking the rod so size of fish is the question. How big are the steelhead you’re after? If they’re in the 4-10lb range then use the 6wt. If they are in the 15-20lb range, use an 8-9wt. The person using a stiffer, heavier rod with light tippet is putting more risk on the fish. Cheers, Jack

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastised for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told that I should be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, because have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutely no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statement on his part true?

Andrew, Another point is this discussion is that anyone who would chastise another as to one’s method of fishing, bothers me. Fred Halford and others includes…. As long as it is legal, reasonably sporting, and respects property rights and the rights of others near you, you ought to be able to fish with what works for you……  With a steady pull, one cannot exert 8 pounds of pressure on a tippet with a 9 foot rod….  So I think the way you apply pressure and way you avoid letting the fish rest between runs and pulls has a lot to do with how quickly one can land a fish… For example a fish hooked in the upper lip can be made to raise its head while fighting a very quickly tired…. as compared to one hooked in the rear lower edge of the mandible.  If you have ever accidently hooked a fish in tail, you will know the outter limit of this difference…  Keeping the fish upstream of you will also result in a quicker finish…..  And in very clear water, that is not too fast, and not too deep, and 8 pound tippet may provide many fewer hook-ups…  Lots of side to this issue…. but for someone to say….. only fish the way I advocate…. well, I would chalk that up and move on.. Alan E. Hoover       to quote one of my favorite authors: "Fly fishing is such great fun, it really ought to be done in bed"  John Voelker, aka Robert Traver

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastized for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told thet I shold be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, becauseI have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutly no sense to me.

The guy is full of unmitigated bull hooie.  The tippet is the defining element.  If you can break the tippet with the rod, and the tippet is strong enough to be appropriate for the fish, the rod is fine.  And 3x tippet, from a reputable manufacturer, is strong enough for the average steelhead.  If you were expecting to catch 20 lb fish all day, I might sing a different story, but the 8 to 12 lb fish I run into can be brought to the beach in 5 minutes with 8lb test leader, and that seems to let them swim away safely.   I have caught 15 lb steelhead with my six weight, using 3x (=8lb) tippet, and been able to whip the steelhead quickly.  I use 8lb leader for gear fishing with a meat stick, with the same, sporting, results.   I think the average fisherman does not realize how much pressure can be put on a fish with today’s tippet material.   — Andrew Brunette

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How tightly do you set your drag?  If you point your rod tip towards the fish and set the drag higher than when fishing with a 4 lb tippet then sure you will definitely apply more pressure.  Your drag setting and how you hold the rod while fighting fish will determine the answer to your question.  My guess is that you’ve got the drag setting at less than 4 lbs (would you dare jiggle a 1/2 gallon carton of milk from the end of your 6 wt rod?).  So the guy at the shop is probably right.  Mu Young Lee         Ann Arbor, MI  o             oooo                          o   o   o o   o o o  o – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastized for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told thet I shold be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, becauseI have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutly no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statment on his part true? Andrew

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Hi All, I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastised for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told that I should be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, because have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutely no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statement on his part true? Andrew

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Hi All, I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastized for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told thet I shold be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, becauseI have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutly no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statment on his part true? Andrew

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastised for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told that I should be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, because have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutely no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statement on his part true?

Hi Andrew, Like many answers, this one is "it all depends".   Obvoiusly 4 pound test line (presuming it is rated accurately) will break before 8 lb test.  But the question is, "how much of that 8lb. test capacity are you really using?" The answer is "not nearly as much as you think your are." If you hook up your 6 wt. to a Chatillon scale and start bending the heck out of it, you will find it very hard to exert more than 5 lbs. of steady pressure (don’t break your rod trying to get that little bit more!).  Quick jerks will exceed it but not steady pressure which is what you’re using when you’re fighting fish.  An 8 wt. rod is much more capable of exerting that amount of steady pressure, though 8lbs of steady pressure will bend most 8 wt rods well into the butt.  If you both used 8 lb. tippet then I’d say the 8wt. would be able to apply more of the tippet’s capacity more consistently than the 6wt. So, depending on how you fight the fish, the 8wt. would certainly be more capable of applying constant pressure at 4 lbs. than the 6 wt.  An 8wt will however break 4lb. test pretty consistently so it requires a very good touch. If the comparison had been a 6wt. with 8lb. test vs an 8wt. with 6 lb. test, then I’d say the 8 wt would do the better job because it would be able to constantly use more of the tippets capacity than the 6wt. By changing the rod angle, you can change the amount of pressure on the fish. if you keep your rod tip up and the butt of the rod between 45 and 60 degrees, you get a maximum amount of shock absorption and comparatively little pressure on the fish. However, if you wind or strip in line until your rod angle is more like 30 degrees, anchor the line against the handle or reel, and then pull up and off to the side, you exert easily two to three times as much pressure.  You are takin the tip of the rod out of the fight by doing this and using the butt of the rod to supply the lifting power. This is a good technique to use once you’ve got a fish beaten.  It can break you off quickly if the fish is too fresh. Try this with a friend sometime.  One hold the rod and the other hold the end of the line.  Pull with both methods.  The one bending the rod will think he is exerting huge amounts of pressure when he is not.  As soon as the rod tip drops and then pulls, the difference is obvious.                    Hope this helps,                            Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish

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You might want to contact the real experts at a place called G. Loomis.   They have the tech. knowledge to give you the facts. try http://www.gloomis.com  Regards,  Capt. Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastized for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told thet I shold be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, becauseI have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutly no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statment on his part true? Andrew

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastised for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told that I should be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, because have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutely no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statement on his part true? Andrew

I agree with you with your specific example, I think you can put more pressure on a fish with a 6 wgt using an 8 lb tippet than you could with an 8 wgt using a 4 lb tippet.  However, with a 6 or 8 weight rod both using for example an eight pound tippet, you could put more pressure on a fish with an 8 weight as a rule.  Rod lengthn also figures in on this.  You can put more pressure on a fish with a longer rod in the same line class.  Action also plays into this.  A fast rod can provide more pressure, but a softer rod is more forgiving and break offs are less likely.  Obviously an angler’s skill is another factor. I think you use what works well for you just as long as the fish you catch (assuming you are releasing them) are landed in a short enough time that the fish will survive releasing.  If you follow the reasoning of the guy in the shop, a 10 weight would be better, a 12 better still.  Bet he doesn’t fish a 12. Willi

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Question:

I’ll be in Livingston, MT in early Aug. I’d like to know if there are places to fly fish near town? I’ll probably be in the Comfort Inn. I’m not looking for trophies, just easy access and some fun. I’d like to be able to give the family the car so I can fish. Is there fishing in walking distance to that part of town? I’ve never been there, so I need advice.

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I’ll be in Livingston, MT in early Aug. I’d like to know if there are places to fly fish near town? I’ll probably be in the Comfort Inn. I’m not looking for trophies, just easy access and some fun. I’d like to be able to give the family the car so I can fish. Is there fishing in walking distance to that part of town? I’ve never been there, so I need advice.

Hi Gerys The Yellowstone River flows right through town and good fishing often can be right at your back door. If close access is your goal then try fishing around the channels near the 9th St bridge, up or down stream from Mayer’s Landing, or Carter’s Bridge (about 2 miles south of town). Good luck & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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Question:

I’m planning a trip to the Yellowstone area in early September.  Does any one have advice on the best bets that time of year?  Any favorite places that you wouldn’t pass up if driving through the Park? Thanks for any help, Mike Fair

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Mike, …..theres a lot of fishing in and around the park. Call Dan Baillys(sp?) in Livingston or any other Fly Fishing store to get advise with in a week of your trip.The rivers in Montana are still high due to the heavy snows. I own Hawley Mt. guest Ranch 25 miles north of Yellowstone on the Boulder River and we offer lodging and fishing but we have a 4 day min. You can call me 406-932-5791 and I will be happy to tell you about the conditions.                                                                       Bryant BBlewett

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Mike, …..theres a lot of fishing in and around the park. Call Dan Baillys(sp?) in Livingston or any other Fly Fishing store to get advise with in a week of your trip.The rivers in Montana are still high due to the heavy snows. I own Hawley Mt. guest Ranch 25 miles north of Yellowstone on the Boulder River and we offer lodging and fishing but we have a 4 day min. You can call me 406-932-5791 and I will be happy to tell you about the conditions.                                                                      Bryant BBlewett

I was there a couple years ago for a week following Labor Day.  It turned out to be a great time to be in Yellowstone.  Most of the facilities were still open, but there weren’t very many people in the park.  Most of the  people who were there stayed on the busses or in the gift shops.  My wife and I were often by ourselves on the rivers or the hiking trails. I fished the Yellowstone in several spots, the Firehole and several of the creeks which feed into the Yellowstone.  The rivers were full of Cutthroat  I was recently recalling this trip and decided that I will return in September ‘97 to see if it was really as good as I remembered it. One warning, the park facilities only stay open for about two weeks after Labor Day, at which point everything by Old Faithful Lodge starts closing down. Please report back if you go this September. Tim Johnson

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Mike,  Everything should be fishing well at that time with the late runoff and all.  If the weather is warm the madison below Quake lake should be good for hoppers.  Many shops in West can supply flies and info. I hate driving in the park, but the uppper northeast area is a fav. spot.  Soda Butte creek towards Cooke City and even the Clarks Fork past Cooke City. Doug Stephens

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Question:

Let me add another positive story.  I received a Shimano Citica for Christmas in 1992.  In late 1994, I began having problems with it not casting a reasonable distance.  I sent it to the closest "authorized service facitily" in early 1995 (OVER two years after purchase).  They informed me that the manufacturer had identified a problem with a spring mechanism.  It took about two months (that was the service facility, not the manufacturer), but I received a new, 1995 model reel. I was pretty impressed.  When I look at new reels, I always consider a Shimano. Suzanne  

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Given that we all have used this forum to post problems we have had with one or another manufacturer, I felt it was only fair to post a nice experience I had when I managed to break my 4 month old Quantum Graphite Flippin Stick.  I had luckily saved my receipt and packaged it up along with the broken rod on February 20 to send back to Zebco.   They received it on the 23rd and shipped me out a new one with no questions asked on the same day.   I received a new rod on the 27th.  This kind of fast turnaround and no-hassle policy is what will keep me buying Quantum/Zebco products in the future.                                               –  Alan Derrick

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It might not hurt to notify Zebco directly of your satisfaction if you haven’t already done so.  In fact, they are on line at http://www.zebco.com/ and you can E-Mail from their page.   Since they’re very accustomed to the usual flame message from customers that are dissatisified, your note along with comments about having posted to a news group on the Web might help boost their attitudes to maintaining good will via this medium.   It will also send them a message about the importance of having a pesence on the WWW and the clout that it represents.  Too many of the fishing and fly tackle manufacturers still have their heads in the sand on this one.  In the long range, a lack of presence on the WWW will not be beneficial to them. Best Regards Trent Roberson Rx F Fish – - "For Your Good Health, Fly Fish" URL=http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish Given that we all have used this forum to post problems we have had with one or another manufacturer, I felt it was only fair to post a nice experience I had when I managed to break my 4 month old Quantum Graphite Flippin Stick.  I had luckily saved my receipt and packaged it up along with the broken rod on February 20 to send back to Zebco.   They received it on the 23rd and shipped me out a new one with no questions asked on the same day.   I received a new rod on the 27th.  This kind of fast turnaround and no-hassle policy is what will keep me buying Quantum/Zebco products in the future.                                              -  Alan Derrick

         Rx F Fish "For Your Good Health, Fly Fish" URL=http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish

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Question:

I’ll be trying the Big Sur River just south of Monterey Calif. on Wednesday.   I figure I’ll use dark flies and quarter the stream.  It’s not a deep river so I’m going to use a floating line and let the weight of the fly do the work of getting down to the fish. So, what do you think?  Am I on the right track?

Hello Bob, We are all curious as to how you did.  If you caught one then you confirm the truism that sometimes a first time beginner can walk up to a river and catch a steelhead. Back to reality, our winter run steelhead are a very difficult quarry. They usually move quickly through the short lower sections where fishing is allowed.  Even if you can find them, you can pass a fly right in front of their nose time after time without provoking a response, although sometimes they will bite. And in many years like this one, the water isn’t clear enough for flies for months. They are a lot easier to catch on roe, but as a fly fisher I don’t find that very satisfying. I recommend you try the fall run on the Klamath and its tributaries, in late September or October.  They bite flies much more readily and often hold in riffles where fly fishers have an advantage. Good luck, Mark Vinsel

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Yes, that will work, but just remember, like with big trout, you must put the fly in front of their nose.  It might take something like a heavily weighted stonefly nymph to do the trick.  The rod wt. is OK, I have landed steelhead on my Orvis Western Spring Creek 4 wt.  If i am targeting steelhead though, I usually take a 6 or 7.  A fly I’ve had luck with on small strams that are ahallow and clear where you and the fish can see each other, is a Black Diamond (first tyed in Black Diamond, Washington).  If you’re interested and can’t find the pattern, give a yell – be glad to provide it. Burton Hawley, Corvallis, OR

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Although I’m an experienced flyfisher, I really don’t know anything about flyfishing for steelhead.  What are the best tactics and flies to use for steelhead?  What is the best equipment and setup?  I have 7wt equipment.  Is this sufficient? I’ll be trying the Big Sur River just south of Monterey Calif. on Wednesday.   I figure I’ll use dark flies and quarter the stream.  It’s not a deep river so I’m going to use a floating line and let the weight of the fly do the work of getting down to the fish. So, what do you think?  Am I on the right track? Thanks Bob Moss Landing, Ca.

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Lots of good books on the topic, especially Advanced Steelhead Flyfishing that seems to focus on your area.  Flies are typically bright streamers and wild marabou patterns, though some folks prefer to fish darker flies that actually look like something alive.  Salmon egg patterns are used alot. Typical tactic is to flip it out 45 degrees to current and drift, pulling line in to cover water completely before moving a few steps.  Floating line is common(specail steelhead line is flaoting and designed for winter usage), sometimes with longer leaders with heavy flys to sink. Monofilament shock obsorbers are common as well.  So much has been written, I couldn’t do it justice.  Like most new water, its probably good to get a guide. Tom      

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Although I’m an experienced flyfisher, I really don’t know anything about flyfishing for steelhead.  What are the best tactics and flies to use for steelhead?  What is the best equipment and setup?  I have 7wt equipment.  Is this sufficient? I’ll be trying the Big Sur River just south of Monterey Calif. on Wednesday.   I figure I’ll use dark flies and quarter the stream.  It’s not a deep river so I’m going to use a floating line and let the weight of the fly do the work of getting down to the fish. So, what do you think?  Am I on the right track? Thanks Bob Moss Landing, Ca.

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Yes you are.  I would suggest you get a copy of both Dry Line Steelhead by Bill McMillan and Greased Line Fishing for Salmon (and Steelhead) by Jock Scott.  They’re the bibles.

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