Question:

Looking at a possible Northern California trip the first part of October.  Would like it to be a guided trip for a minimum of two days.   Anyone have any suggestions as where to go? Have looked on the net and will probably go to the Redding area.  Want it to be private as much as possible. Want to fish for Salmon or trout, doesn’t matter, just want to be catered too and guided for a day or two.  Some advice would be helpful in the decision, was thinking of a lodge…. Thanks a bunch Paul

Response:

Looking at a possible Northern California trip the first part of October.  Would like it to be a guided trip for a minimum of two days.   Anyone have any suggestions as where to go? Have looked on the net and will probably go to the Redding area.  Want it to be private as much as possible. Want to fish for Salmon or trout, doesn’t matter, just want to be catered too and guided for a day or two.  Some advice would be helpful in the decision, was thinking of a lodge…. Thanks a bunch Paul

Suggest you contact ROFF’s own Bill Kiene. Look up http://www.kiene.com. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Well, we liked this place a lot.  Take a look and let me know what you think. Richard PS:  Nice salmon when I was there!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking at a possible Northern California trip the first part of October.  Would like it to be a guided trip for a minimum of two days. Anyone have any suggestions as where to go? Have looked on the net and will probably go to the Redding area.  Want it to be private as much as possible. Want to fish for Salmon or trout, doesn’t matter, just want to be catered too and guided for a day or two.  Some advice would be helpful in the decision, was thinking of a lodge…. Thanks a bunch Paul

Response:

Question:

I’ll be spending the month of July this year, travelling up the Alaska coast and then driving back the Alaska highway. Is anyone here familiar with the fishing along this highway in July? Any streams that are particularly worth stopping for?  What species should I anticipate? Any short side trips worth taking? Any and all advice is welcome. I have no idea how my experience (and fly patterns) with brook trout and atlantic salmon here in New Brunswick will transfer to the left coast. Thanks Brent

Response:

Find a current copy of "Milepost".  This is the definitive guide to the highway and lists fishing opportunities all along the routes into and inside Alaska. Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll be spending the month of July this year, travelling up the Alaska coast and then driving back the Alaska highway. Is anyone here familiar with the fishing along this highway in July? Any streams that are particularly worth stopping for?  What species should I anticipate? Any short side trips worth taking? Any and all advice is welcome. I have no idea how my experience (and fly patterns) with brook trout and atlantic salmon here in New Brunswick will transfer to the left coast. Thanks Brent

Response:

No, but I sure can tell you it would be smart to know your blood type.  They have 500 pound misketoes and other blood sucking insects waiting for you. Make safety arrangements with the Red Cross. George Gehrke "O-Positive I’m Positive I’m not Negative"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Find a current copy of "Milepost".  This is the definitive guide to the highway and lists fishing opportunities all along the routes into and inside Alaska. Bill I’ll be spending the month of July this year, travelling up the Alaska coast and then driving back the Alaska highway. Is anyone here familiar with the fishing along this highway in July? Any streams that are particularly worth stopping for?  What species should I anticipate? Any short side trips worth taking? Any and all advice is welcome. I have no idea how my experience (and fly patterns) with brook trout and atlantic salmon here in New Brunswick will transfer to the left coast. Thanks Brent

Response:

Well, that certainly helps with pattern selection and flysize. ;^ ) brent

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, but I sure can tell you it would be smart to know your blood type. They have 500 pound misketoes and other blood sucking insects waiting for you. Make safety arrangements with the Red Cross. George Gehrke "O-Positive I’m Positive I’m not Negative"

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Question:

Sounds damn good to me Joe! Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On Sat Feb  16  Joe Humphreys  will will demonstrate his casting  for catching fish then he and around 30 other -tiers will show you beginners how to tie something the fish might like. I plann to attend and spend saturday nigtht in Morganton and fish somewhere Sunday if temp is 42 or above. Walt, Opie any of you locals  interested. Jeff I will share a motel with you if you can stay  in bed till at least 5 in morning. But I will not get up and start driving at 2:30 AM to beat the traffic!       Joe-/*

Response:

joe – i wouldn’t travel to charlotte even if nicole kidman offered to suck my wanker there…so, i trust you’ll understand if i decline your generous offer.  now, if you can get joe or nicole to demonstrate their ability in hyde county, i’d happily reconsider… jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On Sat Feb  16  Joe Humphreys  will will demonstrate his casting  for catching fish then he and around 30 other -tiers will show you beginners how to tie something the fish might like. I plann to attend and spend saturday nigtht in Morganton and fish somewhere Sunday if temp is 42 or above. Walt, Opie any of you locals  interested. Jeff I will share a motel with you if you can stay  in bed till at least 5 in morning. But I will not get up and start driving at 2:30 AM to beat the traffic!       Joe-/*

Response:

On Sat Feb  16  Joe Humphreys  will will demonstrate his casting  for catching fish then he and around 30 other -tiers will show you beginners how to tie something the fish might like. I plann to attend and spend saturday nigtht in Morganton and fish somewhere Sunday if temp is 42 or above. Walt, Opie any of you locals  interested. Jeff I will share a motel with you if you can stay  in bed till at least 5 in morning. But I will not get up and start driving at 2:30 AM to beat the traffic!       Joe-/*

Joe, no can do….. I have show/shop duties…. walt

Response:

On Sat Feb  16  Joe Humphreys  will will demonstrate his casting  for catching fish then he and around 30 other -tiers will show you beginners how to tie something the fish might like. I plann to attend and spend saturday nigtht in Morganton and fish somewhere Sunday if temp is 42 or above. Walt, Opie any of you locals  interested. Jeff I will share a motel with you if you can stay  in bed till at least 5 in morning. But I will not get up and start driving at 2:30 AM to beat the traffic!       Joe-/*

Response:

Question:

Bruiser wrote… I forgot to thank Joe Fleischman for the great gifts.  The book went to Charlie who may venture to Northern NM once in a while, and the necks went to Warren, the other birthday guy and a prolific fly tier.

Speaking of which, I owe a thanks to Joe.  The funny thing is that I needed those for my fly swap flies so you will probably be seeing them again soon Joe, in a different form of course. — Warren Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

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Of course, no offense to the Penn’s Clave.  Let me amend by saying: Henry’s Fork will be the mother of all Western Claves. We’re sending our DH to Penns bruce h

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  Personally, the best thing about claving is that now when I read your posts, I can hear your voices. Mu

…and there it is.  summed up nicely mu.  course, a few more and you’ll be hearing their footsteps too <g. jeff

Response:

Jeff,  I’m not sure what brand the Tequila was, but it was good, a Reposado. It came in a brown ceramic bottle with a white picket fence molded into the front.

You seem to have found one I don’t know of.  I’ll look for it on my trip west  I coudn’t read the label with double vision!  You should see the flies I tied though.

Oh, I’ve seen ‘em, and they’re too small to see.

Response:

Wayne Harrison wrote…    ah, the stuff of legends!  it reads wonderfully, and makes us all dream of the fabled henry’s fork, where i will plant the bonnie blue flag of the old north state, come this september.

Every couple of weeks I am going to repost this Wayno.  I am holding you to your pledge of attendance.  I would consider it both an honor and a privilege to fish with you and eagerly look forward to the day.  It would finally ease the disappointment I felt in Ennis. — Warren Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

Jeff,  I’m not sure what brand the Tequila was, but it was good, a Reposado. It came in a brown ceramic bottle with a white picket fence molded into the front.  I coudn’t read the label with double vision!  You should see the flies I tied though. Tripper,  Last night it started snowing and it’s let up a little but it hasn’t stopped.  We must have been living right because the storm held off for a couple of days. Wayne,  see you at the Henry’s Fork.  I better bring my Nuevo Mexico flag. bruce h I forgot to thank Joe Fleischman for the great gifts.  The book went to Charlie who may venture to Northern NM once in a while, and the necks went to Warren, the other birthday guy and a prolific fly tier. bruce h

Response:

If you ever get the chance and haven’t done so, attend a clave.  I have met lots of great friends this way.  Ain’t the net great?

        ah, the stuff of legends!  it reads wonderfully, and makes us all dream of the fabled henry’s fork, where i will plant the bonnie blue flag of the old north state, come this september. your friend in carolina wayno

Response:

 Personally, the best thing about claving is that now when I read your posts, I can hear your voices.

Ah, now THAT captures it perfectly.  Perfectly. JR

Response:

If you ever get the chance and haven’t done so, attend a clave.  I have met lots of great friends this way.  Ain’t the net great?

It is indeed. Well, we’ll get some pictures posted somewhere soon.

Definitely! Maybe rw’s got some room? We think the Henry’s Fork will be the Mother of All Claves.

Well, maybe the daughter: I’d say the Penn’s shindig has some scary numbers behind it… Thanks for visiting, everyone, I had a blast.

Very cool, thanks for the TR. It sounds like the water clarity wasn’t much of an issue. And you didn’t mention the weather – did George’s snowstorm give the valley a miss? /daytripper (Glad you all had a good trip!)

Response:

If you ever get the chance and haven’t done so, attend a clave.  I have met lots of great friends this way.  Ain’t the net great?

Yes, my friend, it surely is. Everyone has slow days, days when you are obviously catching fewer fish than your friends.

That only happens to me on the rare days that I go fishing. Thanks to everyone for the nice gifts.  Danl brought me a cool bottle of high quality tequila…

What kind was it?

Response:

If you ever get the chance and haven’t done so, attend a clave.  I have met lots of great friends this way.  Ain’t the net great?

No doubt about it (irrespective of Gwen Stefani’s anatomy) Hate to tell you, Mu and Bill, but Monday was the best day.

First time I ever heard *shoulda been here tomorrow* As if in a dream, that fish opened his mouth, the fly slid in, and amazingly was hooked.  In all my days there, that’s never happened for me like that before. Mu CAN throw the whole line with little or no effort.

<g What you might not have noticed from where you were watching is that half the time I was chucking a Teeny 130 – that’s why it looked so easy to make the long casts.  I don’t think I’ve ever thrown a whole floating line. Thanks for visiting, everyone, I had a blast.

Sure was a blast.  I learned quite a bit.  I’ve never fished such small flies.  I saw fish being caught in some water that often I would have overlooked.  I overheard Bruiser talking to Charlie about looking for fish in some shallow spots and that help me pick up a very nice fish one morning while casting towards shore while everyone else near me was casting to the deep water.  Watching people’s individual fishing styles was pretty cool too.  Personally, the best thing about claving is that now when I read your posts, I can hear your voices. Mu

Response:

If you ever get the chance and haven’t done so, attend a clave.  I have met lots of great friends this way.  Ain’t the net great? Everyone has slow days, days when you are obviously catching fewer fish than your friends.  Days like those are particularly noticeable at the San Juan, where the fish are everywhere and so are the fly fishers.  Everyone had at least one day of fewer fish, including me, the host.  Imagine that. There was one exception and anyone who reads ROFF knows who that person is. Willi’s unreal.  We keep wondering when he’ll just get blanked, and in the several days I’ve been lucky enough to fish with him it’s never even been close.  Different rivers, different bugs, different conditions, same result. Willi’s letting go of another fish in that familiar fashion – he leans over, quickly grabs the hook, and releases the fish without touching it.  It’s not really all that amazing that he can nimbly release a three pound fish from a size 24 hook in that manner.  Any one of us would be as good if we’d have practiced it 10,000 times  Steve and I were talking one evening after another mini party in an Abe’s room and when we started talking about all the fish we’ve seen Willi catch we started laughing and continued for quite some time.  His skill is uncanny.  Hopefully I’m not embarassing Willi – he’s a very modest guy. Thanks to everyone for the nice gifts.  Danl brought me a cool bottle of high quality tequila that lasted until my friend Arnie arrived.  He’s the western answer to Pamlico Jim.  Charlie gave me one of those cool Fishpond tippet dispensers, Bob another shirt to replace the one he gave me last year.  Mu brought me some French flies.  Yes, I typed that right.  RW paid for my  accomodations and we had a blast fishing together all over the river.  Warren brought a ton of flies for everyone and two tons of materials.  Sorry if anyone was left out, but I still feel like a zombie. We had two or three dinners at the Sportsman (big burgers).  They have dollar bills, decorated with patron’s grafitti, covering the walls.  Last year in December (actually December 2000) I gave the waitress a dollar with the inscription:  ROFF 2000.  In at least fifteen subsequent visits I’ve failed to spot the dollar on any of the walls – my guess was it got pocketed after the unfortunate situation with our tab last year (which we made good on).  On the first night there, we were waiting for a table, and there it was, on the wall, next to the front door.  Cool. The next morning, as we were leaving the breakfast table, a guy at another table asked me if I was Bruiser and if we were ROFF.  Turns out he’s a lurker from Colorado and that we’ve known each other vaguely for years. Wow.  They were in the room across from us at Abe’s and paid our party a visit later that night, contributing heavily to Warren and Arnie’s hangovers the next day.  Something about Martini’s not mixing well with whiskey, beer, and tequila but the details aren’t important.  They are nice guys and it was fun to meet up with them at the clave. The fishing was a little tougher than usual, especially on Saturday and Sunday, when there were more people and fewer risers.  Hate to tell you, Mu and Bill, but Monday was the best day.  Even on the worst days on that river you can sneak up on a big rainbow and watch it pick adult midges off the surface – deliberately, slowly, selectively.  Bob and I cast to one of these guys without a look.  The fish continued eating real bugs,  undeterred by our artificials.  At one point the fish took a midge from *between* the two dries that Bob drifted over him.  On sunday there was a fish feeding in a similar fashion and indulged me by continuing to feed as I drifted three dry patterns over his head.  First, a tiny griffith’s.  He looked at it, but only came to within an inch and didn’t open his mouth.  Next, I tried a single adult midge parachute pattern.  The fish examined it real close, but again, didn’t open it’s mouth.  Then I remembered a fly that I’d had success with before in a similar situation.  It’s a tiny Adams with no wing, just hackle, given to me by a guide a couple years ago.  As if in a dream, that fish opened his mouth, the fly slid in, and amazingly was hooked.  In all my days there, that’s never happened for me like that before. Everyone seemed to have the spot they really liked.  Charlie’s spot is the slack water at the bottom of the cable hole,  slow current and very selective risers.  That’s also RW’s favorite.   Bob and I like to fish emergers in the Upper Flats.  Willi fishes for risers near the dam with dry flies (or a two inch strip of chamois).  Warren liked the channels between the dam and cable hole.  Danl, as well as Mu and Bill, fished everywhere and with big smiles always.  I’ve never met Mu before and he’s very cool, energetic and friendly.  It’s been said about flyrods on ROFF before, but Mu CAN throw the whole line with little or no effort. Well, we’ll get some pictures posted somewhere soon. We think the Henry’s Fork will be the Mother of All Claves. Thanks for visiting, everyone, I had a blast. bruce h

Response:

Question:

Nothing has a probability of one, except the likelyhood of me getting wind knots on a trip. Lou

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recall that the Law of Large Numbers allows one to derive that if an event has a non-zero probability, then if you conduct the experiment an infinite (or very large) number of times, then the event occurs with a probability of one.  So this means that if I cast a fly line an infinite number of times, I’m bound to catch a fish.  So, every time I go practice casting in the sound, then I’m just working off those non-occuring casts, no?  {Aside, I did have a couple of bad days last summer where I actually caught a fish, so I must have a lot more non-productive castst to work off….} Happy New Year!!! john

Response:

I recall that the Law of Large Numbers allows one to derive that if an event has a non-zero probability, then if you conduct the experiment an infinite (or very large) number of times, then the event occurs with a probability of one.  So this means that if I cast a fly line an infinite number of times, I’m bound to catch a fish.  So, every time I go practice casting in the sound, then I’m just working off those non-occuring casts, no?  

No. The trials are independent (assuming you aren’t learning anything as you go along). {Aside, I did have a couple of bad days last summer where I actually caught a fish, so I must have a lot more non-productive castst to work off….}

I have an fool-proof system for roulette you might be interested in. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Logic and calculus don’t always go together.  Combined with something as illogical as fishing it’s a complete waste of time. Try rotating the function   Y= -1/X about the Y axix and compute both the volume and the area of the surface you have created.  It has a finite volume and an infinite surface area. Which means…. You can get enough paint to fill the shape but you can’t get enough paint to paint it. I recall that the Law of Large

Happy New Year!!!

Good thought  I’ll second that. BJC

Response:

I recall that the Law of Large Numbers allows one to derive that if an event has a non-zero probability, then if you conduct the experiment an infinite (or very large) number of times, then the event occurs with a probability of one.  So this means that if I cast a fly line an infinite number of times, I’m bound to catch a fish.  So, every time I go practice casting in the sound, then I’m just working off those non-occuring casts, no?  {Aside, I did have a couple of bad days last summer where I actually caught a fish, so I must have a lot more non-productive castst to work off….} Happy New Year!!! john

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, I just can’t stand the thought that someone actuallythinks that Tim’s the "gentleman" in this group.  To say that all the swearing and cursing and foul words in this newsgroup is bad and then to hold up Tim as an example of a person who doesn’t do these thing….ARGH!!!  Somebody’s been doin’ too much drugs.  :-) Hi Ken, You’ve got it all wrong! I called Tim a gentleman in another thread, although it was to do with the same subject. I never said he was *the* gentleman in the NG, but *a* gentleman for forgiving Max for what everyone else would have seen him hung drawn and quartered.  Tim has given out a lot of flack and certainly has taken some, not the least from you and J.P. He’s no angel but he is a GENTLEMAN for turning a blind eye to all Max has done.

I agree, but I wasn’t talking about you.  :-) I went back and found out who it was, it was "Mr G", Here’s the excerpt: "The gentleman turns around slowly with raised gray brows and smiles a strange sort of smile and says . . . "Get lost, punk." As the king said to Mozart, "You argue Mozart, but you fail to persuade."  Swearing is a lot like that, whereas, your arguments persuade because your logic and research is based on reason.  When the man turned and said, "Get lost, punk" (a form of swearing that will affect that child for the rest of his life regarding fly fishing, possibly) instead of, "Why hello, young man.  How are you today?  You ever fly fish?" is what the flow of your persona as a gentleman/fly fisherman wins the moment of your thread and all those who swore and cursed and spit foul words before you, today, lost.  " Now, do you believe that "the flow of [Tim's] persona" wins any moment of any thread?  He’s usually the first one in there swearing and cursing and spitting foul words. Written with no malice aforethought (a novelty for this NG)

None taken nor given. Later,      - Ken — Not speaking for anyone but myself

Response:

    I     Are you saying that Tim doesn’t swear and curse and spit foul words?     What newsgroup have you been reading?  This whole episode started     because Tim had to resort to swearing.             – Ken     —     Not speaking for anyone but myself       No, I just can’t stand the thought that someone actuallythinks that Tim’s the   "gentleman" in this group.  To say that all   the swearing and cursing and foul words in this newsgroup is   bad and then to hold up Tim as an example of a person who   doesn’t do these thing….ARGH!!!  Somebody’s been doin’ too   much drugs.  :-)

Blah Blah Blah, ENOUGH.  Prove that you know how to read by going back and re-examining Mr G’s (aka the Professional Sportsman) post. THEN take enough time to let it sink in that your first interpretation of his post is about 180 degrees out and that you’ve been arguing against someone who clearly agrees with you. Pentium inside eh? -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

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    I     Are you saying that Tim doesn’t swear and curse and spit foul words? Blah Blah Blah, ENOUGH.  Prove that you know how to read by going back and re-examining Mr G’s (aka the Professional Sportsman) post. THEN take enough time to let it sink in that your first interpretation of his post is about 180 degrees out and that you’ve been arguing against someone who clearly agrees with you.

If so, I’m wrong.  Please read what I first wrote (what I’ve left unsnipped above). I asked him for clarification about what he wrote. Note the question marks…I’ll stop now so that I don’t turn and begin to spit foul words.  :-) GRRR,      - Ken — Not speaking for anyone but myself

Response:

: No, I just can’t stand the thought that someone actuallythinks that Tim’s the : "gentleman" in this group.  To say that all : the swearing and cursing and foul words in this newsgroup is : bad and then to hold up Tim as an example of a person who : doesn’t do these thing….ARGH!!!  Somebody’s been doin’ too : much drugs.  :-) Sheesh Ken, read the post again.  By overlooking the actual message Gherke’s post, you are propogating an attitude.  He did not say what you claim he said. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

: No, I just can’t stand the thought that someone actuallythinks that Tim’s the : "gentleman" in this group.  To say that all : the swearing and cursing and foul words in this newsgroup is : bad and then to hold up Tim as an example of a person who : doesn’t do these thing….ARGH!!!  Somebody’s been doin’ too : much drugs.  :-) Sheesh Ken, read the post again.  By overlooking the actual message Gherke’s post, you are propogating an attitude.  He did not say what you claim he said.

I stand corrected.  I DID ask for a clarification, but then the thread wandered and I forgot the starting point.  There are just too many posts to try to keep up on all of them. Later,      - Ken — Not speaking for anyone but myself

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My displeasure regards the pure, foul mouthing being allowed to permeate into this group.  It just isn’t right. I can imagine (bear with me) of your story about the fellow that taught you a lot astream recently Tim.  Let us all try and imagine therefore; the following. There is this sage looking gentleman with a pipe, tying on another fly as this kid watch in great admiration his skill in catching trout with such a long, graceful looking wand.  So the child walks up to the man and from behind him as his back is turned to the bank, he says, "Hey Mr.? Whatcha doing?" The gentleman turns around slowly with raised gray brows and smiles a strange sort of smile and says . . . "Get lost, punk." As the king said to Mozart, "You argue Mozart, but you fail to persuade."  Swearing is a lot like that, whereas, your arguments persuade because your logic and research is based on reason.  When the man turned and said, "Get lost, punk" (a form of swearing that will affect that child for the rest of his life regarding fly fishing, possibly) instead of, "Why hello, young man.  How are you today?  You ever fly fish?" is what the flow of your persona as a gentleman/fly fisherman wins the moment of your thread and all those who swore and cursed and spit foul words before you, today, lost.

Are you saying that Tim doesn’t swear and curse and spit foul words? What newsgroup have you been reading?  This whole episode started because Tim had to resort to swearing.      - Ken — Not speaking for anyone but myself

Response:

  There are just too many posts to try to keep up on all of them.            - Ken

How about adopting the sensible policy of only replying to the threads that you _do_ "keep up on".  Failing that, how about warning readers when you are replying to an article you have not read or thought about… cheers,         -tony — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

Response:

Tim I don’t see how it is possible to "moderate" the group except by general consensus, ie. if someone oversteps the mark then the group excludes them to the extent that they give up and go elsewhere. If someone feels strongly enough to post a "fuck off" then OK, as long as it isn’t gratuitous. If you are insistent on creating a FAQ, (I don’t really consider it necessary, personally), then keep it to "frequently asked questions", why try and have rules that are unenforceable? General consensus will suffice. Personally, I still have reservations about Mr. Winters’ continued involvement with the group, time will tell if I am on my own on this one but, in my opinion, some valuable members have left as a result of his continued presence and this irks me. Maybe a few less Brits would suit some members of the group? Your apparent new found "sycophancy" worries me almost as much as the original "misdemeanours"! — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s assume this FAQ TOC for starters… Fundamental Question before we start, I hope everyone checks in with an opinion on this fundamental tenet. Will the FAQ be building a different ROFF, i.e. "The Gentlemen’s Flyfishing Club"… (eg. "Fuck Off" – Excluded) or Will the FAQ acknowledge ROFF for what it is and provide complete protection for freedom of speech and expression thereof as far as it pertains to flyfishing ? (eg. "Fuck Off" – Protected) — To Max.  I hope that you’re still there. Further I hope you will follow up to this question and help us sort out what ROFF is so that what has happened to us will not happen to others.   The way I am viewing all of this [on this glorious Colorado morning] is that since we have no rules (written or otherwise) governing this newsgroup, than nobody could have possibily violated anything. — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

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Let’s assume this FAQ TOC for starters… Fundamental Question before we start, I hope everyone checks in with an opinion on this fundamental tenet. Will the FAQ be building a different ROFF, i.e. "The Gentlemen’s Flyfishing Club"… (eg. "Fuck Off" – Excluded)

Even more fundamental question, who decides what is "un-gentlemenly"? There are many ways to be vulgar and offensive without swearing. Is it okay to say: "F*ck off" "BS" "Bite me" "Bite my rod" I have not used an "offensive" word in the list above, the meaning is still there. If we say that none of these is acceptable, who is going to enforce it.  You say you will leave if this group becomes moderated, but short of moderation this decision is unenforceable. Let me try to put this in terms you will understand since I hear that you are a programmer.  You have coding style requirements. With the requirements alone, nothing changes, with moderate enforcement you get some change, but mostly only after the enforcement has happened upon your unfortunate soul, or you have heavy enforcement where if you don’t code properly your code doesn’t compile and won’t work until you fix the error. If you want "posting" standards the same will occur.  Write down a list of rules and don’t enforce and it means nothing. Enforce heavily and it will work, but you will have a moderator sitting there saying yah or nay to every post. Is this what you want?  I’m not in favor of moderation, but this is an academic exercise if you think writing down rules will change anything. or Will the FAQ acknowledge ROFF for what it is and provide complete protection for freedom of speech and expression thereof as far as it pertains to flyfishing ? (eg. "Fuck Off" – Protected)

This is status quo. I think the only way to "change" things is through individual policing. Think about how you personally are responding and whether or not you want to be seen the way your post makes you look.  There will always be abusive people on usenet, it’s your decision about how to respond to them.  For example, if someone, oh let’s see, calls someone a "fucking moron" you can respond in kind and get in a name-calling contest or ignore the post, or just snip out the line and continue with a semi-constructive argument.  It may not change the abusive poster, but at least things won’t turn into a complete brawl and you won’t be acting like a 2nd grader. I don’t know if this helped or not, but at least it made me feel slightly better (CRAPPY weekend). Later,      - Ken — Not speaking for anyone but myself

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Umm…. ..are we gonna forget the charter and FAQ whilst everyone keeps pissing and moaning about Mr. G and what Tim REALLY meant and the rest of this Blah, Blah? I thought the "group" was serious about trying to get on track? Why don’t the limited number of you that want to continue griping about all the side issues find a chatroom to meet in and hammer this out between yourselves???

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Let’s assume this FAQ TOC for starters… Fundamental Question before we start, I hope everyone checks in with an opinion on this fundamental tenet. Will the FAQ be building a different ROFF, i.e. "The Gentlemen’s Flyfishing Club"… (eg. "Fuck Off" – Excluded) or Will the FAQ acknowledge ROFF for what it is and provide complete protection for freedom of speech and expression thereof as far as it pertains to flyfishing ? (eg. "Fuck Off" – Protected) — To Max.  I hope that you’re still there. Further I hope you will follow up to this question and help us sort out what ROFF is so that what has happened to us will not happen to others.   The way I am viewing all of this [on this glorious Colorado morning] is that since we have no rules (written or otherwise) governing this newsgroup, than nobody could have possibily violated anything. — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel… ROFF Charter  Purpose of NG  Goals of NG  Rules for posting to NG  Profanity  Selling  Attachments  When to respond to Writer rather than Group FAQ’s  Equipment  Rods and Reels  Float Devices  Nets  Vests  Lines  Leaders  Accessories  Clothing  Rain Gear  Hats  Waders/Boots  Guides  Tipping  Personal Experience Stories  Tying (see ROFFT) PERSONAL BIOs  Regular Frequent Posters  Known Commercial Posters  Known Frequently Medicated Posters

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<nice post "Any fish bite if you got good bait… I’m a going fishin’ too".<g — Charlie…

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Nice to see you back.  I still do not agree with most of what you say though. Chris Brown – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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<MERCILESS CHOP    The GOAL of this rather longish post is to help to get ROFF back on track <MERCILESS CHOP   Hey, isn’t that what the investigator joker said too?  Anyway, I   can’t imagine what the hell this "back on track" acually means.  It   always was a bunch of us jackass fishers talking amongst ourselves about   whaterver we please and it always will be.   My observations of these groups (since their conception) is that for   every person who takes them (too) seriously, there are a thousand (and   climbing daily) who don’t.  If anyone wants to get with a group of   folks that are all as serious as they are should get into a   listserv – I’ll be happy to explain via email what this means.   FAQ’s for these groups are a great concept, but a waste of time.   99.44% of the time the only people aware of the FAQ are people who   don’t need it – and FAQ’s certainly don’t squelch the repetitive   discussions. cheers,   -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

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Q:  What’s the difference between Tim Walker’s head and a buttplug? A:  The buttplug comes out once in a while. Sorry, just had to complete the symmetry. I’ll help out on the FAQ, but someone, really anyone, has to set out a real and complete first draft of a Table of Contents.  It won’t be the final one and it won’t be right, but it will give a starting point.  I could suggest a list of 10 or so names for this job, but you guys probably know who you are.  Any volunteers?  We can’t really start without it. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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What is it about flyfishing that creates such unbridled passion ? About this damned newsgroup ?

No offense, and with all due respect, it’s you. Swearing at people who don’t agree with you, calling people names when they don’t agree with you, doing whatever pleases you to someone who doesn’t agree with you is what makes this newsgroup so violent. If you REALLY are trying to turn over a new leaf then I’m willing to let bygones be bygones, but if you think that simply making a FAQ is going to change anything by itself you are far too optimistic. So, Jimbo – Whomever had May 22 on the Skeeter returns pool, gets the warm Molson.

Hey, give credit where credit is due, it was my pool.  :-) Although NOBODY was guessing this soon, you usually wait at least a couple of weeks. The GOAL of this rather longish post is to help to get ROFF back on track and with high hopes of a much better ROFF for all of us in the very near future.

<honest question Maybe you can define what a "better" ROFF looks like. – No political rants? – No ethical rants? – No swearing? – No name-calling? Unless you do some or all of those, what will change? </honest question Clean slate ?    Any AYE’S ?

Sure, I’ll be happy to start over, again it’s mostly up to you though.  Your first swearing rant over someone C&R-ing a fish and we’ll be right back where we started. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – RFD: A NEW FAQ For Rec.Outdoors.Fishing.Fly "FAQ – Rec.Outdoors.Fishing.Fly" What the FAQ ? <g (i.e. Why…? Anecdotal, but real…) Hierarchy Etiquette ?  (Recommend None. <G) Rules governing SPAM Common Questions (Equipment, Setup, Places to go) Endless Threads 1. C&R Basic Position – [Ralph or delegates Can write ?] 2. C&K Basic position – [Jon Cook or ??? can write ?] Frequent Posters Personal BIO’S Moe Skeeter – Pigheaded Buttmunch C&K homebrewer….(We’d write our own) Fishing Links etc. Do you see where this could go ? Do you see how this could be useful and prevent any hard feelings in the future ? How a newbie can get answered immediately ? Links and info and organization..

The general info part of a FAQ is certainly a good idea.  I question the ability of a FAQ to regulate etiquette or to make a difference in the "endless threads".  The problem is that veterans already know the info and those who need the info rarely read FAQs. I would be willing to help with a general info section, but the other sections are basically futile in the chaotic USENet. Tell you what, if you can get an agreement on what a "better" ROFF looks like I’ll reconsider. I think you are underestimating the variety of viewpoints people have here. Good Luck,      - Ken — Not speaking for anyone but myself

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_____ Well Tim, I know nothing about this person Max that is supposed to be a rascal, but your arguments are of a reasonable man.  Of course, personally, I like most of the men in this group.  The only reason why there aren’t more ladies involved here is because . . . and then it ceases to be interesting regarding "attention spans and talking fishing?" Not important issue right now.  But I accept your reasoning. My displeasure regards the pure, foul mouthing being allowed to permeate into this group.  It just isn’t right. I can imagine (bear with me) of your story about the fellow that taught you a lot astream recently Tim.  Let us all try and imagine therefore; the following. There is this sage looking gentleman with a pipe, tying on another fly as this kid watch in great admiration his skill in catching trout with such a long, graceful looking wand.  So the child walks up to the man and from behind him as his back is turned to the bank, he says, "Hey Mr.? Whatcha doing?" The gentleman turns around slowly with raised gray brows and smiles a strange sort of smile and says . . . "Get lost, punk." As the king said to Mozart, "You argue Mozart, but you fail to persuade."  Swearing is a lot like that, whereas, your arguments persuade because your logic and research is based on reason.  When the man turned and said, "Get lost, punk" (a form of swearing that will affect that child for the rest of his life regarding fly fishing, possibly) instead of, "Why hello, young man.  How are you today?  You ever fly fish?" is what the flow of your persona as a gentleman/fly fisherman wins the moment of your thread and all those who swore and cursed and spit foul words before you, today, lost.

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<lot of good stuff snipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I hope everyone has a wonderful Memorial day weekend. I have a couple people in mind that I’ll need to remember hard this year…. You get a line…I’ll get a pole…Honey. You get a line…I’ll get a pole….bay-beee… You get a line…I’ll get a pole, We’ll go down to the crawdad hole. Honey, Bay- be mine…. Your pal, — TimW

tim…you ‘da man…. ;^) btw…"SECRET" flies in the mail come tuesday, just finished tying another batch of ‘em. -walt

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tim…you ‘da man…. ;^)

Yeah! — Bill

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ROFF Charter         Purpose of NG         Goals of NG         Rules for posting to NG                 Profanity                 Selling                 Attachments                 When to respond to Writer rather than Group FAQ’s         Equipment                 Rods and Reels                 Float Devices                 Nets                 Vests                 Lines                 Leaders                 Accessories         Clothing                 Rain Gear                 Hats                 Waders/Boots         Guides                 Tipping                 Personal Experience Stories         Tying (see ROFFT) PERSONAL BIOs         Regular Frequent Posters         Known Commercial Posters         Known Frequently Medicated Posters

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Good start!  I’ve added a suggestion or two below.

: ROFF Charter :       Purpose of NG :       Goals of NG :       Rules for posting to NG :               Profanity :               Selling :               Attachments :               When to respond to Writer rather than Group : FAQ’s :       Equipment :               Rods and Reels :               Float Devices :               Nets :               Vests :               Lines :               Leaders :               Accessories :       Clothing :               Rain Gear :               Hats :               Waders/Boots :       Guides :               Tipping :               Personal Experience Stories :       Tying (see ROFFT)         General                Why are they picking on Orvis?                What do they have against Jeep Grand Cherokees?                Who is Brian Keith? : PERSONAL BIOs :       Regular Frequent Posters :       Known Commercial Posters :       Known Frequently Medicated Posters :       — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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I Are you saying that Tim doesn’t swear and curse and spit foul words? What newsgroup have you been reading?  This whole episode started because Tim had to resort to swearing.     – Ken — Not speaking for anyone but myself

Ken, It seems to me that you are deliberately continuing to try and fuel this smoldering fire. Lighten up….. –Walt

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I Are you saying that Tim doesn’t swear and curse and spit foul words? What newsgroup have you been reading?  This whole episode started because Tim had to resort to swearing.     – Ken — Not speaking for anyone but myself Ken, It seems to me that you are deliberately continuing to try and fuel this smoldering fire.

No, I just can’t stand the thought that someone actuallythinks that Tim’s the "gentleman" in this group.  To say that all the swearing and cursing and foul words in this newsgroup is bad and then to hold up Tim as an example of a person who doesn’t do these thing….ARGH!!!  Somebody’s been doin’ too much drugs.  :-) Lighten up…..

Nah, I’m always too light, maybe if I called someone an imbecilic dweeb I could get in on the really good fights.  :-) Later,      - Ken P.S.  No hard feelings, I noted the smiley and please note mine in return. — Not speaking for anyone but myself

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No, I just can’t stand the thought that someone actuallythinks that Tim’s the "gentleman" in this group.  To say that all the swearing and cursing and foul words in this newsgroup is bad and then to hold up Tim as an example of a person who doesn’t do these thing….ARGH!!!  Somebody’s been doin’ too much drugs.  :-)

Hi Ken, You’ve got it all wrong! I called Tim a gentleman in another thread, although it was to do with the same subject. I never said he was *the* gentleman in the NG, but *a* gentleman for forgiving Max for what everyone else would have seen him hung drawn and quartered.  Tim has given out a lot of flack and certainly has taken some, not the least from you and J.P. He’s no angel but he is a GENTLEMAN for turning a blind eye to all Max has done.  I’ve no doubt some of Tim’s comments in the future will be succinct, curt, bombastic, witty, even vitriolic, but always well founded on solid principle. Can you match up to such a guy in eloquence and character? Written with no malice aforethought (a novelty for this NG) Regards, — Bill

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I am disturbed by these recent events. Restless.  Sleepless.  Bothered. What is it about flyfishing that creates such unbridled passion ? About this damned newsgroup ? IMHO – Max Whittington is, I am certain (now more than ever) a good man who made an honest mistake.  Lord knows, I have.   Moreover he made a mistake about something he is passionate about.  Lord knows, I have done that too.  Have you ? I have read carefully every post has made here and I see something different than what has been revealed by these events. First off he is helpful to the beginner.  Cordial and a gentleman.  Sincere.  He is also a hell of an investigator <g, this might be useful when the REAL loons come around <g. We can not all get mad and quit when something bad happens and I am not setting any example.  I am very sorry for that.  If we all acted like this…then there were none. —- Like the constant upstream migration of an emerging insect, with all of the odds against it, we *must* press upstream and solve this problem…. —- So, Jimbo – Whomever had May 22 on the Skeeter returns pool, gets the warm Molson. I can not leave the group like this.  It sucks.  It’s mean spirited and hurting.  And it is only Qayaniskatsi – Life out of balance. I do not sense mean hearts among us, anywhere, do you ? —- I have 2 serious issues.  Please bear with me The GOAL of this rather longish post is to help to get ROFF back on track and with high hopes of a much better ROFF for all of us in the very near future. —- First off…everyone…please go to www.dejanews.com and read the stuff Max posts.  He’s a good Joe, IMO (not that MY opinion is worth a ratty waterlogged adams). It is true that I felt violated by the background check and the email to my employer, but he woke my eyes up in a huge way. It may NOT be safe to have an unchecked opinion in cyberspace.  You too might want to consider this.  I am hoping to find out just what in the world is out there easily for people to find and I intend to ask Max to help me. Friends… You take the bad with the good, but you look for the good… …and I see a hell of a lot of it in that man. I challenge you to read *all* of his posts and not agree. I know (feel) that something positive is coming out of this and in the end I predict that not only will Max be a good friend to a lot of us, but that ROFF will be better, stronger and more organized place to deal with the hectic, eclectic and sometimes strange internet demands placed upon it. — Let’s use this as an opportunity to grow.  Individually, collectively… — That was my first serious issue and I am serious. Can we forgive and forget by remembering [who we are]…Royal Order of the Brothers of the Bugchuckers… Number two will just be ‘#2′  <g if we can not. Clean slate ?    Any AYE’S ? Part 2. RFD: A NEW FAQ For Rec.Outdoors.Fishing.Fly Request for Discussion… We need a new FAQ for ROFF.  It is high time.   I believe that none of this would have happened if we had one and will take at some of the heat if for this alone. I’ve been around long enough that it’s at least partly my laziness that we don’t have the damned thing done yet ! John Ferriera, where are you ? Consider this…. The C&R thread has been active for at least 7-8 years ?  It has started/ended/mutated so many times that it’s *amazing*.  This can *only* speak to its relevence of it as a valid subject in our sport, or at least to a buncha people here as it relates to our sport (I am in this group that feels that it needs discussing). That, however, is *not* the point (only an example)…please view it only as such. The point is, is that it is maddening to have to justify its (the threads) existence over and over and over, like some of us have had to.  Why should I feel guilty discussing C&R ad infinitum around here ?  (or cussing or swearing…).  We have been around and around on this and I have a solid proposal. To use Max’s example: Assume that this is a club, only its like no other club in the world.  We have no limitations on membership. No education requirements or dress code.  We have no choice in the matter, really, unless we moderate the group, because this group exists in the Universe of the internet we must treat it as a subset of this Universe.   If the group becomes moderated, well…that’s fine…but then please point me to the unmoderated one. The FAQ *WILL* give credence to and justify these ongoing threads so that they will not be the targets of trivialization or condemnation.  Moreover the FAQ will set the rules of fair play in ROFF that we will all have to agree to, or move on. Certain things will be covered in the FAQ, such as "Opinions on Floatants". Hopefully, this will grow with relevent information and all of the info, such as Albolene, secret formulas and the history of George Gehrke and his product on can get thoroughly and objectively covered there once. Instead of saying "This group sucks…can we change it ?", We could say…"Uh…this part of the FAQ sucks, can we change it …?". Thus I propose a *MEMBER DETERMINED* FAQ having a "table of contents" something like: "FAQ – Rec.Outdoors.Fishing.Fly" What the FAQ ? <g (i.e. Why…? Anecdotal, but real…) Hierarchy Etiquette ?  (Recommend None. <G) Rules governing SPAM Common Questions (Equipment, Setup, Places to go) Endless Threads 1. C&R Basic Position – [Ralph or delegates Can write ?] 2. C&K Basic position – [Jon Cook or ??? can write ?] Frequent Posters Personal BIO’S Moe Skeeter – Pigheaded Buttmunch C&K homebrewer….(We’d write our own) Fishing Links etc. Do you see where this could go ? Do you see how this could be useful and prevent any hard feelings in the future ? How a newbie can get answered immediately ? Links and info and organization.. IOW – Shouldn’t we get our collective shit together a little ? Vroman hates me for a very similar misunderstanding…we simply don’t agree on what ROFF is, but how can either of us be right if NOBODY knows what ROFF is ? By end of summer…let’s say…we all agree on what ROFF is…DEAL ? It’s something to consider…. Max, I hope you’re still with us ? Comments ? Peace. No hard feelings…. I hope everyone has a wonderful Memorial day weekend. I have a couple people in mind that I’ll need to remember hard this year…. You get a line…I’ll get a pole…Honey. You get a line…I’ll get a pole….bay-beee… You get a line…I’ll get a pole, We’ll go down to the crawdad hole. Honey, Bay- be mine…. Your pal, — TimW What is ROFF ?

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Question:

I am looking into buying my first drift boat and am looking for any tips or recomendations that may help me in my quest. Should I buy new or used? Approx. costs for both? Size? Aluminium,fiberglass,or wood? These are a few of the questions I could think of. Durability is my main concern as I will be going down fairly large and rough rivers.That brings me to my last questions where can I go to learn how to use the boat safely and properly? —                  *              Doug Cook                *                  *            Richmond,B.C.              *                  *                Canada                 *

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking into buying my first drift boat and am looking for any tips or recomendations that may help me in my quest. Should I buy new or used? Approx. costs for both? Size? Aluminium,fiberglass,or wood? These are a few of the questions I could think of. Durability is my main concern as I will be going down fairly large and rough rivers.That brings me to my last questions where can I go to learn how to use the boat safely and properly? —                  *              Doug Cook                *                  *            Richmond,B.C.              *                  *                Canada                 *

DOUG BABY!  Definately can help you here.  Look into (one example) a Don Hill Drift Boat and I believe he’s in Springfield/Eugene Oregon. Do not go below 16 feet in length as these will float shallower than 14 footers and you will need the hauling abilities and they are easier to maintain position with the oars. Always buy three oars, not just two.  When not in use, hang them off the floor on a wall dangling down in order to keep them warp-free. Do not buy aluminum drift boats as they are:         1)Cold blooded bastards on the feet.         2)Noisey         3)Grip Rocks and hang up on them unmercifully! Buy a new boat that is Gel Coated on the bottom and which is fiber glassed.  The Don Hill or Coffman (spelling?) are excellent.  Make sure your trailer-bearings are water sealed. Buy any boat you want as long as it’s fiber-glass.  More maintenance free all around and in the long-haul.  They will take a lot of punishment and bring you home alive.  Always carry an extra set of oar locks and make sure you have a good quick anchor system/release. Lastly, realize that Mackenzie Style Drift boat fishing is a two man operation overall.  One person rows and another fishes.  You can go alone but requires a good anchoring system from dragging a chain, to using a 30 pound pyramid hunk of lead, etc. Call Don Hill and tell him I said hello.  I own one of his.  Love it. Use the heck out of it.  Great Steelhead fishing platform and perfect for fly casting or dead-drifting, etc. Sincerely, George Gehrke/Mr. Gink

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I am looking into buying my first drift boat and am looking for any tips or recomendations that may help me in my quest.

I believe Lavro has a guarentee that might interest you. Steve

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Doug, I suggest….just my personal opinion that fiberglass is the most durable.  It can be patched if necessary and is more quiet than aluminum.  I use a Hyde boat and I love it….they are light, rugged, comfortable, look sharp and very responsive.  Give them a call and get a catalog ask for Bruce…tell him you spoke to me. They are a good company. 800 444 4933. Let me know if I can help…I hope I did. Cheers, James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service LIC#2298 Underhill, VT

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Question:

writes: `Planing a trip tp Baum Lake soon. Any recommendatins as to feel of the lake and suggestions recommended. Is float-yube a good idea for Baum?

Float tubes are fine, but Baum Lake is really more like a slow moving section of Hat Creek than a real lake and there is a current in it.  If you use a tube, use an anchor, and be prepared to walk back from the far end of the lake as it is easier to walk back than to kick your tube back up current.  A pram or better yet a canoe is a better choice if you have one.                                           Good fishing,                                                  Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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`Planing a trip tp Baum Lake soon. Any recommendatins as to feel of the lake and suggestions recommended. Is float-yube a good idea for Baum?

Yes, a float tube, pram or canoe are all good ideas for Baum. Take in some stream fishing in the area too.  But be careful fishing under the powerlines if you visit Hat Creek Powerhouse#2 riffle.  They have a magnetic effect that causes otherwise sane anglers to wade and cast within ten feet of each other. Mark Vinsel http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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`Planing a trip tp Baum Lake soon. Any recommendatins as to feel of the lake and suggestions recommended. Is float-yube a good idea for Baum?

Response:

I would say that a float tube venture is ok, but there is a good enough flow that it will make getting back a bit tuff. However, there is a trail on one side of the lake that you can return on. Personally, I use a canoe. Always play it safe! Johnny – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – `Planing a trip tp Baum Lake soon. Any recommendatins as to feel of the lake and suggestions recommended. Is float-yube a good idea for Baum?

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Question:

Read your thread in the FF Newsgroup.  It looks like you’ve already gotten some good answers & I agree with them.  Glad to see you tying some new things to try out – that’s half the fun. If you want the best advice – bar none, you have to call the Bass Pond. Their number is 800-327-5014.  There is not a nicer, more knowledgeable group of warmwater people around.  Doug, the owner and his wife Lori, are both in my opinion a few of the hidden gems of this sport.  The Bass Pond is the mail order arm of Anglers All, their retail shop.  If you don’t find what you need in the catalog, ask & they’ll have it (or kill themselves getting it) in their retail shop. I’ve been dealing with them a couple of years now and they get ALL of my business.  Their prices are right on & the Bass Pond rods aren’t listed along with SAGE for nothin’.  Great deal there! No I don’t work for them – I’m just fanatical about warmwater FF & the folks at The Bass Pond.

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Anybody know what to use for bass in IOWA?  I am tying a wide assortment of flys right now to experiment with when the ice thaws but I’d like to be able to use some flys or nymphs that will work in early spring. Any help would be appreciated. Thanx…Jim Hauer

Response:

Wooly Bugger, size 10 and larger

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Anybody know what to use for bass in IOWA?  I am tying a wide assortment of flys right now to experiment with when the ice thaws but I’d like to be able to use some flys or nymphs that will work in early spring. Any help would be appreciated. Thanx…Jim Hauer

Jim: If you mean EARLY spring, like shortly after the ice goes out, my experience is you’ll need to go with something wet (like the Wooly Buggers mentioned earlier, leech patterns, and Clouser minnows have all worked for me).  I will tell you, though, I do a lot of farm pond fishing just outside Des Moines, and FLYfishing for bass can tend to be pretty slow (at least for me) until the water starts to warm up a little. Now, once the water temp. does start getting into the high 40’s and low 50’s, things really heat up on flies.  When the bass are starting to be active in the shallows, hair bugs, poppers, and ESPECIALLY DEER HAIR MICE can be a riot.  I have caught lots of nice bass on a mouse – nothing fancy, just natural brown deer hair spun fairly thick in kind of a fat, torpedo shape on a long size 2 or 4 hook, and trim the belly a little and use a brown or black bunny hair strip for a tail.  When the bass are in the mood, this is heart attack fishing ’cause they’ll just inhale it. Later toward summer and through fall, hopper imitations work real well. At ANY time, if you want to speed up the action, try tying a nymph of some sort as a dropper attached to the hook bend of your topwater bass fly.  Odds are you may get lots of bluegills that way, and occasionally you’ll get a bass on the top and a bluegill on the dropper. Have fun, I’ll be after the bluegills this weekend.  The ice just went out on my favorite pond. Bob

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Anybody know what to use for bass in IOWA?  I am tying a wide assortment of flys right now to experiment with when the ice thaws but I’d like to be able to use some flys or nymphs that will work in early spring. Any help would be appreciated. Thanx…Jim Hauer

Jim,    You didn’t mention the type of bass : large or smallmouth.  Since Iowa has lots of farm pond I’ll assume the former. I have had the best luck on large floating spiders. Tie them with white foam then pantone the backside and some of the underbelly grey to simulate the large diving spiders living amongst the pond edges. The largemouths go bunkers over them initially, then wise up after having been hooked a few times.. Its a blast !                                                                                        Jody

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I was fishing the South Platte upstream from Deckers in the mountains S.W. of Denver, laid out a beuatiful cast and as the tippet was unrolling, took a Barn Swallow out of the air..  It got a little wet on the retrieve, untangling took about five minutes, but I received a chirp of thanks upon departure.

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Not with turtles…but lizards will take an 18 or smaller terrestrial readily!! Be kind and crimp the barbs..catch and release please. J.O’C.

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While fishing for smallmouth bass on the Mississippi River near Monticello MN.  Dick Schultz caught what he thought was a log.  Much to his surprise, the log started swimming off.  After a pitched 5 minute battle, his log turned out to be a large snapping turtle, with his clauser minnow in its upper jaw. A world record snapper on a fly? Brian M

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   Although never a turtle, i’ve caught bullfrogs and garter snakes on a dry fly.                                                                 bob welliever Bob Welliever  Phoenix, AZ.

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I have a nice marshy pond I fish for blue gills and bass on.   This spring there’s more turtles than fish, however.  They’re very crious; they stick there head out of the water a few inches, for a few minutes, then move on to another spot.  I fear one day they’ll swoop up a fly and create a real mess.  I’m staying away from the wooley buggers for just that reason. Any experience risin’ turtle? Tom — "For the love of the fly, the cycle of spring, and all things that remind us of nature’s cruel dance."

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I have a nice marshy pond I fish for blue gills and bass on.   This spring there’s more turtles than fish, however.  They’re very crious; they stick there head out of the water a few inches, for a few minutes, then move on to another spot.  I fear one day they’ll swoop up a fly and create a real mess.  I’m staying away from the wooley buggers for just that reason. Any experience risin’ turtle? Tom

While I’ve heard of turtles taking a fly (including some terriffic stories involving snapping turtles), it may not be as likely as you think.  Last week I came across a regular party going on in and under a mulberry tree hanging over a deep, slow moving channel.  Grackles, crows and mockingbirds were fighting over the ripe berries in the tree and, in their struggles, raining them down on the water below.  As many as a dozen large river turtles were treading water under the bush, necks outstretched.  When I noticed the huge, dark shapes of a pod of big carp rolling underneath the turtles, I bit off the little bluegill popper I had on and tied on the closest thing I had to a mullberry, a black woolly worm hackled with a red-dyed grizzly saddle.  On every cast, the turtles would swim furiously over to the fly, then refuse it from a good distance away.  The carp didn’t have nearly so many inhibitions.  In an hour of casting right next to some very eager, hungry turtles, I didn’t have a single one actually take the fly, which was just fine with me.  After letting big carp tow our little boat around for a while, we finally ran out of flies to match the "mulberry hatch."  My last fish from that spot was an 18"-20" channel catfish, which took on the surface, dove for the bottom, and shook its head like a bulldog.  Somehow, the bluegills just didn’t seem the same after our party at the mulberry… Tight Lines (but No TURTLES!) BRAD DeVRIES "Only two things are infinite; the universe, and human stupidity, and I’m not so sure about the former."  – Albert Einstein

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