Question:

I live in Utah and i am wondering what the best fly to use is. I Am fishing provo river and Hobble creek.  What would be the best fly to use for fishing lakes.  I have fished Scofeild and electric lake.  if you could help me i would appriciate it.

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I live in Utah and i am wondering what the best fly to use is.

The one that catches fish. Sorry, couldn’t resist

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As long as your muffler bearings have not gunkulated your framistat it is fairly harmless. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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I just can not wait to see the Fortenberry tartan !  Make sure you get photos ! TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Yeah, OK, so you’re justified in dropping an F-bomb on a guy for a first-time mistake.

You don’t read so well, first-time I said, and I quote: Try to learn a little something about the forum before you come barging in with a bunch of bullshit. It’s called netiquette and you’re in dire need of it. Now tell me why it is again that you called Vern a clueless idiot.

I called Vern a clueless idiot for the obvious reason. — Ken Fortenberry

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Mr. Dreamer,  the post from your grandson was loaded with potentially dangerous and extremely annoying features, dumping cookies, starting browsers, filling screens with HTML code,  initiating auto-dial-ups, etc. This is a very bad thing to do.  When I opened the post I got very alarmed at all the things it did before I could do anything to stop it.  It shot my machine down, and I was obliged to do a restart etc.  I was also obliged to attempt to delete it unread at first, and after trying this three times, and re-setting my machine, I was able to actually read the post, albeit by this time most unwillingly. Apart from which, this newsgroup discusses fly-fishing and not boats. Now at least you know what your grandson did wrong.  I doubt anybody wished to hurt him, but this sort of post is not only annoying, but potentially dangerous.   As you obviously know better, you can perhaps explain to him why what he did was wrong, and in future when you allow him to use your e-mail, you might supervise him a little more closely, and aid him in his endeavours.  Usenet or the internet in general is not the place to allow 10 year old boys free rein. If you or your grandson has any questions pertaining to fishing, then there are lots of people here, including Mr.Harrison, who would be only to pleased to help you. The gut reaction from many to posts which manipulate the machine is to immediately protest to the sender and the ISP of that sender. Regarding the information requested in the original post, there are two basic reasons for a two stroke motor smoking, one is too much oil in the mixture, and the second is the oil scraper rings are worn. This bungs up the spark plugs. If you take the plug out and it is covered in black soot, then one of these reasons is usually the problem. This will eventually also result in misfiring, and difficult starting. Two stroke motors are rarely used for fly-fishing per se. For this type of info, go to a boating group, or your local garage, marina  etc. This and other groups are not free information services. I am sure anybody would welcome a newbie on here with any genuine questions. If your grandson wishes to try again, WITHOUT ANY EXOTIC CODING IN THE MESSAGE, then I am sure both you and he will be pleasantly surprised. I hope this is of help to you. Tight lines ! Mike Connor — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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… this skirmish shall take place on a glen atop grandfather mountain at 2pm on may 8th in the year of our glorious salmo, 2000. standard scottish kilts shall be worn …

Nope, no way. I know what’s under a kilt, more to the point I know what’s NOT under a kilt. Janik can be Evil Ken Twin #1. Actually I prefer it that way, when I refer to him as #1, I feel positively Patrick Stewarty. — Ken Fortenberry

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Hey, who knows I just might be finding myself back in cowtown in the not so distant future.  And…hee hee hee…I know my way around DCL.  Don’t worry, I’ll be armed with Bud as a peace offering.  :-)

Oh gawd, another "corporate partner" come to rape the alma mater. 1412 DCL, and check the "born on date", stale Bud ain’t no peace offering. — Ken Fortenberry

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What can you expect from a jerk? Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip There wasn’t malice in the first post but the second post was definitely out of line. You do not post private email to a USENET newsgroup without the authors permission, and I am assuming that Ernie didn’t give his permission to post that rather mild rebuke to ROFF. That’s malice #1, whether they have enough of a clue to realize it or not, it is definitely malice of a most egregious nature. Fuck ‘em. — Ken Fortenberry

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Rhode Island Dreamer,    If you are going to turn your grandson loose with your computer you should teach him news group regulations.  He sent a bunch of crap which tied up my computer and made me shut down the program just to get rid of it.  If your grandson wants to communicate with this news group let him do it in plain English.  He will find the group is friendly and helpful.  I guess the rest of the group told you what they think about his message and yours. I’ll just say wake up jerk, if you weren’t dreaming perhaps you would know what your grandson is doing. Ernie Harrison I hope that someone can help me. My grandson (10) was on his grandfather’s email so that he could go to discuss: fly fishing. Fly fishing is his favorite. He wrote in on a few questions, that he knew back(included below). Not exactly what I thought good sportsmanship was all about. I have always put fisherman up there with people I like to associate with.  One bad apple spoils it for everyone. My grandson was so hurt. He didn’t know what he did wrong and now doesn’t  want to cotribute to the discuuss group any more.     CAN"T BLAME HIM, CAN YOU! X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 What the hell do you think this is? Quit posting the Webb junk to this news group Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 1:43 PM

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There wasn’t malice in the first post but the second post was definitely out of line. You do not post private email to a USENET newsgroup without the authors permission, and I am assuming that Ernie didn’t give his permission to post that rather mild rebuke to ROFF.

Yeah, OK, so you’re justified in dropping an F-bomb on a guy for a first-time mistake. Now tell me why it is again that you called Vern a clueless idiot a few days ago for dropping an F-bomb on someone who spammed the group? Seems to me if you’re gonna ream some guy for trying to explain the errant newsgroup behavior of his grandkid you’d certainly champion the cause of anyone who would rail on newsgroup spammers. You cannot possibly think the grandpa or the grandson knew any better–yet that’s essentially the same defense you used in your "take-a-chill-you-idiot" post to Vern. –Steve

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … but unless I’m missing something on this one, it seems uncalled for…and I’m not generally considered a softie on these things. Ah HAH ! SO, you relinquish the title Evil Ken Twin #1  ?? Hey, I gotta have something to keep my edge sharp on. With George killfiled and Timmy giving up his mental cluster fuck lately I guess I’m just getting rusty. Newbies just aren’t much fun to pick on IMHO.      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

let me see if i understand this…. some clueless newbie posts a message with a obscene webtv html sig (killfiled his honor immediately)….. ernie, in moderation rebukes him…. grandma gets in a huff…. et1 is moderate…..ET2, seeing a chink in ET1’s armor, wants to wrestle the blooded praetorial monniker away from ET1…. yup, makes sense to me….. as clavemeister, i call for a meeting of the et’s to settle this most unpleasant matter. this skirmish shall take place on a glen atop grandfather mountain at 2pm on may 8th in the year of our glorious salmo, 2000. standard scottish kilts shall be worn and the combatatants, aside from their mercurious wit, shall be armed with cabers and blarney stones and of course, proper drink. last man standing takes the name. waldo

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… but unless I’m missing something on this one, it seems uncalled for…and I’m not generally considered a softie on these things.

Ah HAH ! SO, you relinquish the title Evil Ken Twin #1  ?? By your own admission, I am the more Evil of the Evil Ken Twins. Please change your moniker to ET2. — Ken Fortenberry- it was just a matter of time

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… but unless I’m missing something on this one, it seems uncalled for…and I’m not generally considered a softie on these things. Ah HAH ! SO, you relinquish the title Evil Ken Twin #1  ??

Hey, I gotta have something to keep my edge sharp on. With George killfiled and Timmy giving up his mental cluster fuck lately I guess I’m just getting rusty. Newbies just aren’t much fun to pick on IMHO.      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

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– Other ROFFians laugh with glee?

FWIW, the experience with the dentist wasn’t fun nor was it, in my opinion, called for. If he had tried the extremely cold test on the bad tooth and I didn’t feel it we could have gone right on with the root canal, IMO. I didn’t think I was laughing with glee about anything, then or now. — Charlie…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me get this straight: – Some kid, or potentially clueless adult posted an innocent   question, but had the mime and/or html set on their browser. – Some ROFFian reamed them for it. – Kid’s parents, grandparents, or potentially same clueless adult   posts whining about the treatment. – Some ROFFian reams them for it. – Other ROFFians laugh with glee? Yeah, usenet is rough, but should we really go out of our way to be rough?  When there is malice on the newbie’s part I can understand it, but unless I’m missing something on this one, it seems uncalled for…and I’m not generally considered a softie on these things.

There wasn’t malice in the first post but the second post was definitely out of line. You do not post private email to a USENET newsgroup without the authors permission, and I am assuming that Ernie didn’t give his permission to post that rather mild rebuke to ROFF. That’s malice #1, whether they have enough of a clue to realize it or not, it is definitely malice of a most egregious nature. Fuck ‘em. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I hope that someone can help me.

USENET newsgroups are not "discuss" groups for every muddle headed moron with a webTV account. If you or your 10 year old wants to participate here, learn how to do it right. For what it’s worth, Ernie Harrison was quite polite given the circumstances. Now, fuck off. Hope this helps. — Ken Fortenberry

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I hope that someone can help me. My grandson (10) was on his grandfather’s email so that he could go to discuss: fly fishing. Fly fishing is his favorite. He wrote in on a few questions, that he knew back(included below). Not exactly what I thought good sportsmanship was all about. I have always put fisherman up there with people I like to associate with.  One bad apple spoils it for everyone. My grandson was so hurt. He didn’t know what he did wrong and now doesn’t  want to cotribute to the discuuss group any more.     CAN"T BLAME HIM, CAN YOU!

Sorry your grandson got singed, but all of that music and pictures and junk in the webTV signatures is considered very rude on text-only newsgroups, and cost European subscribers that pay by the minute a lot of money to download the big files.  The only people who can enforce these rules are the newsgroup users.  The responses were probably a little too harsh, but no one expects kids to actually read roff with all the politics and BS they’d have to wade through. — Levi "There are no facts, only interpretations." -Friedrich Nietzsche

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For what it’s worth, Ernie Harrison was quite polite given the circumstances. Now, fuck off. Hope this helps.

LOL.   This is one of those threads that I catch the end of then have to go back and see where it started. Joe F.

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LOL.   This is one of those threads that I catch the end of then have to go back and see where it started.

Oh, now I understand. Joe F.

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Hope this helps. I had a root canal a few weeks ago and, before he did it, the dentist wanted to verify that the root was dead. He did this by touching the tooth with an extremely cold object. The bad news was that he calibrated it by testing a known good tooth first so I would know what extreme pain felt like. Forty provides the same service on roff<g.

ROFLMAO.     Is it safe? Joe F.

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Oh, now I understand.

Except for how he got Jack Webb’s TV. Joe F.

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Hope this helps.

I had a root canal a few weeks ago and, before he did it, the dentist wanted to verify that the root was dead. He did this by touching the tooth with an extremely cold object. The bad news was that he calibrated it by testing a known good tooth first so I would know what extreme pain felt like. Forty provides the same service on roff<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Hey, Ernie, why didn’t you tell them what you *really* felt?   <g Dave L.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hope this helps. I had a root canal a few weeks ago and, before he did it, the dentist wanted to verify that the root was dead. He did this by touching the tooth with an extremely cold object. The bad news was that he calibrated it by testing a known good tooth first so I would know what extreme pain felt like. Forty provides the same service on roff<g. ROFLMAO.     Is it safe? Joe F.

Let me get this straight: – Some kid, or potentially clueless adult posted an innocent   question, but had the mime and/or html set on their browser. – Some ROFFian reamed them for it. – Kid’s parents, grandparents, or potentially same clueless adult   posts whining about the treatment. – Some ROFFian reams them for it. – Other ROFFians laugh with glee? Yeah, usenet is rough, but should we really go out of our way to be rough?  When there is malice on the newbie’s part I can understand it, but unless I’m missing something on this one, it seems uncalled for…and I’m not generally considered a softie on these things.      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

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– Other ROFFians laugh with glee? FWIW, the experience with the dentist wasn’t fun nor was it, in my opinion, called for. If he had tried the extremely cold test on the bad tooth and I didn’t feel it we could have gone right on with the root canal, IMO. I didn’t think I was laughing with glee about anything, then or now.

Wasn’t necessarily replying to your message or portion of the thread. Yours just happened to be the message I had handy after going back and reading the beginning of the thread.      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

Response:

I hope that someone can help me. My grandson (10) was on his grandfather’s email so that he could go to discuss: fly fishing. Fly fishing is his favorite. He wrote in on a few questions, that he knew back(included below). Not exactly what I thought good sportsmanship was all about. I have always put fisherman up there with people I like to associate with.  One bad apple spoils it for everyone. My grandson was so hurt. He didn’t know what he did wrong and now doesn’t  want to cotribute to the discuuss group any more.       CAN"T BLAME HIM, CAN YOU! X-MSMail-Priority:

Question:

Trip Reports Soon: It has taken a lot just to get back on the saddle again business wise. Our trip was amazing in so many ways and we have a few pictures to post on our web site soon.  Just digitizing them into the computer takes effort as most know.  It will be a few more days before we are able to post them.  I will keep everyone posted as this is fly fishing at its’ finest. — Mr.Gink "the saga continues"   http://www.gink.com/

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I will keep everyone posted as this is fly fishing at its’ finest.

Actually, that was over at the ROFF clave, sorry you missed it.  But a notch down from the ROFF clave could still have been pretty good. Regards, Jeff

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Trip Reports Soon: Our trip was amazing in so many ways and we have a few pictures to post on our web site soon.

Looking forward to it, I’ve always wanted to see a picture of someone casting a fly while their head was up their ass.

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Is the Gink Conclave anything like the Winston Cup or the Nokia Sugar Bowl? <snip "Goddamn, well I declare! Their walls are built from  cannonballs;  their motto is ‘don’t tread on me’" -Uncle Jerry

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Is the Gink Conclave anything like the Winston Cup or the Nokia Sugar Bowl?

I think it’s something that happens on occasion in public restrooms<g. — Charlie…

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A.P.Dryden schrieb in Nachricht … Okay, I’ll fess up, too. I suck at drinking The Famous Grouse. I’m self-taught, from books. Never had a drinking lesson. :-O -<=== (me, drinking straight from the bottle of life) — A.P. Dryden A Loyal Explorer of The Famous Grouse Share a Wee Dram and a Tall Tale at http://www.famousgrouse.com/explorers Considering my well known and widely praised lyrical laudations of your esteemed beverage, and following a whim, basically engendered by being referred to as a salon fixture, failed  poet and a dumb popcorn fuelled farting ox, which caused me to imbibe freely of the aforementioned excellent beverage, probably due to fear of instant withering, and as a form of preventive medication, I had occasion to wander into your hallowed halls and was shocked to discover a flagrant case of discrimination, as opposed to a fragrant case of whiskey. In order to alleviate the almost fatal shock resulting from this discovery of unquieting enormity, I was obliged to partake of a further half bottle in order to steady my shattered faith in humankind, and restore my constitution and strengthen my unwavering resolve to continue my explorations. How is it sir that only colonials are admitted to your illustrious ranks, by whose decree is one of the highest possible honours ever to be bestowed on a grateful and undeserving multitude only available to members of a formal penal colony ? That juveniles may not be admitted to the glorious ranks is clear, and requires no further enlightenment, but I sir am an Englishman ! I beg you to reconsider your decision, as otherwise I will be forced to send her most regal majesties official diapproval, a tanker load of freeze dried tea,  and an expeditionary force to convince you of our basically peaceful intentions. We ask, nay sir we demand ! that these unjust and unecessarily cruel discriminations cease forthwith, otherwise sir the consequences may be grave indeed, and might well otherwise result in many wantonly resorting to the uncontrolled use of port and brandy. Yours sincerely Michael A.B.Connor  Class of ROFF 99 ( failed ).

   Huh! (didn’t talk till 6, pointen worked jest fine)                                                                John Popp                                                           in Sanford Fl.

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over, We ask, nay sir we demand ! that these unjust and unecessarily cruel discriminations cease forthwith, otherwise sir the consequences may be grave indeed, and might well otherwise result in many wantonly resorting to the uncontrolled use of port and brandy.

Truly the act of a desperate man. My gawd, I’ve got scotch like nobody’s business, but none of it’s the bird. Anything more expensive than Pete Dawson’s messes me up the morning after. Want some? —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNrB40ZdiUzdLFqlpAQEtvgf/RxrzL00kA35+K1jREtq+eN3IsCfj/EtD Z/F5e5+LjTkNmcMx/ztVxWqlmh7Eiw+yTbeeD1BOXaoFwlqRag8vbAUfHcmXT87A q6PTzOfrU20si/S8sJlYPmwr60mZrfwvlcrMTi5n97qLneppSQrG/lF2dPm0VL3I Bjh4TA4iS62MMx7ouBVWnGE/QQso1anrwSu33JfVHlKGfLQyTiGWM94r2SkOEg2z E1IrQFJCHWpL2cO49udHzsNc55+EVRWqGJyf/VNnMZpT9kxjw+Bk63+DW9EhfPMm aYifNpyGpHzfBQ55/1e9nNO37BeOvSwq0dh/rzzubp0jVg7/xnO0FA== =T2BU —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– Mike S. Medintz, http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz "I’m a liberal conservative. I believe in keeping things the way that  they should have been in the first place." -anon.

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Mike Medintz: <<—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over, We ask, nay sir we demand ! that these unjust and unecessarily cruel discriminations cease forthwith, otherwise sir the consequences may be grave indeed, and might well otherwise result in many wantonly resorting to the uncontrolled use of port and brandy.

Truly the act of a desperate man. My gawd, I’ve got scotch like nobody’s business, but none of it’s the bird. Anything more expensive than Pete Dawson’s messes me up the morning after. Want some? —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNrB40ZdiUzdLFqlpAQEtvgf/RxrzL00kA35+K1jREtq+eN3IsCfj/EtD Z/F5e5+LjTkNmcMx/ztVxWqlmh7Eiw+yTbeeD1BOXaoFwlqRag8vbAUfHcmXT87A q6PTzOfrU20si/S8sJlYPmwr60mZrfwvlcrMTi5n97qLneppSQrG/lF2dPm0VL3I Bjh4TA4iS62MMx7ouBVWnGE/QQso1anrwSu33JfVHlKGfLQyTiGWM94r2SkOEg2z E1IrQFJCHWpL2cO49udHzsNc55+EVRWqGJyf/VNnMZpT9kxjw+Bk63+DW9EhfPMm aYifNpyGpHzfBQ55/1e9nNO37BeOvSwq0dh/rzzubp0jVg7/xnO0FA== =T2BU —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– Mike S. Medintz, http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz "I’m a liberal conservative. I believe in keeping things the way that  they should have been in the first place." -anon. Mike, just curious, but what the hell is all the stuff between "Begin PGP Signature"  and "End PGP Signature"?  And, why is it there? Dave LaCourse

Response:

Okay, I’ll fess up, too. I suck at drinking The Famous Grouse. I’m self-taught, from books. Never had a drinking lesson. :-O -<=== (me, drinking straight from the bottle of life)

A.P., that’s what we need to really get ROFF going, and further irritate those who are complaining about content – drinking lessons. Based on your vast experience, I think you should start with a post or two about techniques for attacking the famous grouse. Mark Faulkner

Response:

A.P.Dryden schrieb in Nachricht … Okay, I’ll fess up, too. I suck at drinking The Famous Grouse. I’m self-taught, from books. Never had a drinking lesson. :-O -<=== (me, drinking straight from the bottle of life) — A.P. Dryden A Loyal Explorer of The Famous Grouse Share a Wee Dram and a Tall Tale at http://www.famousgrouse.com/explorers

Considering my well known and widely praised lyrical laudations of your esteemed beverage, and following a whim, basically engendered by being referred to as a salon fixture, failed  poet and a dumb popcorn fuelled farting ox, which caused me to imbibe freely of the aforementioned excellent beverage, probably due to fear of instant withering, and as a form of preventive medication, I had occasion to wander into your hallowed halls and was shocked to discover a flagrant case of discrimination, as opposed to a fragrant case of whiskey. In order to alleviate the almost fatal shock resulting from this discovery of unquieting enormity, I was obliged to partake of a further half bottle in order to steady my shattered faith in humankind, and restore my constitution and strengthen my unwavering resolve to continue my explorations. How is it sir that only colonials are admitted to your illustrious ranks, by whose decree is one of the highest possible honours ever to be bestowed on a grateful and undeserving multitude only available to members of a formal penal colony ? That juveniles may not be admitted to the glorious ranks is clear, and requires no further enlightenment, but I sir am an Englishman ! I beg you to reconsider your decision, as otherwise I will be forced to send her most regal majesties official diapproval, a tanker load of freeze dried tea,  and an expeditionary force to convince you of our basically peaceful intentions. We ask, nay sir we demand ! that these unjust and unecessarily cruel discriminations cease forthwith, otherwise sir the consequences may be grave indeed, and might well otherwise result in many wantonly resorting to the uncontrolled use of port and brandy. Yours sincerely Michael A.B.Connor  Class of ROFF 99 ( failed ).

Response:

(Frogspritz) writes: Based on your vast experience, I think you should start with a post or two about techniques for attacking the famous grouse.

I’ll start. How to serve Famous Grouse. 1. Open Bottle 2. Get appropriate glass. 3. Pour Famous Grouse down the sink. 4. Pour into the glass an appropiate single malt scotch. 5. Enjoy! Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A.P.Dryden schrieb in Nachricht … Okay, I’ll fess up, too. I suck at drinking The Famous Grouse. I’m self-taught, from books. Never had a drinking lesson. :-O -<=== (me, drinking straight from the bottle of life) — A.P. Dryden A Loyal Explorer of The Famous Grouse Share a Wee Dram and a Tall Tale at http://www.famousgrouse.com/explorers Considering my well known and widely praised lyrical laudations of your esteemed beverage, and following a whim, basically engendered by being referred to as a salon fixture, failed  poet and a dumb popcorn fuelled farting ox, which caused me to imbibe freely of the aforementioned excellent beverage, probably due to fear of instant withering, and as a form of preventive medication, I had occasion to wander into your hallowed halls Yours sincerely

(snip of hilarious stuff) Michael A.B.Connor  Class of ROFF 99 ( failed ).

        wonderfully done, michael!         damn near enough to turn you into an anglophile, isn’t it, taffy ol friend? wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I figure now is the time to fess up, before you all meet me in NC. Besides the fact that i’m the youngest buck in the group, I suck at flyfishing. I’m self taught, from books. Never had a casting lesson, tying lesson, or any other type of lesson. So you guys leave me alone when I start snagging your clothes and tying masturful blobs of dubbing! Tim Apple P.S. I am very proficient at drinking the Famouse Grouse though.

Response:

I figure now is the time to fess up, before you all meet me in NC. Besides the fact that i’m the youngest buck in the group, I suck at flyfishing. I’m self taught, from books. Never had a casting lesson, tying lesson, or any other type of lesson. So you guys leave me alone when I start snagging your clothes and tying masturful blobs of dubbing! Tim Apple P.S. I am very proficient at drinking the Famouse Grouse though.

Tim, you actually believe we know how to fish? hell wayno’s gonna be cryin in his cabin most of the time mumbling "how did waldo sink that 30′ putt" between gulps of vodka. i’m gonna be runnin to the bank to deposit my winnings and george is gonna be screamin from his cabin "c’mon guys let me out" after we spike his door. some other nameless person will be tending to his animal husbandry. matt will be hungover, won’t be able to fish at all. tom will be playing with his loran equipment. mark will be chasing his southern dreams and wayne will be chasing other game. let’s see, that leaves big al and charlie…. imnsho, probaly damn good fishing pardners fer ya. apologies for any ruffled feathers and especially if i inadvertantly left someone out. –Wataugan "let the clave begin" Walt

Response:

What the hell was that! Speak American, damn it! TWL         Big Al – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I figure now is the time to fess up, before you all meet me in NC. Besides the fact that i’m the youngest buck in the group, I suck at flyfishing. I’m self taught, from books. Never had a casting lesson, tying lesson, or any other type of lesson. So you guys leave me alone when I start snagging your clothes and tying masturful blobs of dubbing! Tim Apple P.S. I am very proficient at drinking the Famouse Grouse though. Tim, you actually believe we know how to fish? hell wayno’s gonna be cryin in his cabin most of the time mumbling "how did waldo sink that 30′ putt" between gulps of vodka. i’m gonna be runnin to the bank to deposit my winnings and george is gonna be screamin from his cabin "c’mon guys let me out" after we spike his door. some other nameless person will be tending to his animal husbandry. matt will be hungover, won’t be able to fish at all. tom will be playing with his loran equipment. mark will be chasing his southern dreams and wayne will be chasing other game. let’s see, that leaves big al and charlie…. imnsho, probaly damn good fishing pardners fer ya. apologies for any ruffled feathers and especially if i inadvertantly left someone out. –Wataugan "let the clave begin" Walt

Response:

I figure now is the time to fess up, before you all meet me in NC. Besides the fact that i’m the youngest buck in the group, I suck at flyfishing. I’m self taught, from books. Never had a casting lesson, tying lesson, or any other type of lesson. So you guys leave me alone when I start snagging your clothes and tying masturful blobs of dubbing! Tim Apple P.S. I am very proficient at drinking the Famouse Grouse though.

*twitch!* ignore. *twitch, twitch* ignore I’m not biting! This monster is drifting down stream. the G fish —

Question:

Marcus writes: I have no idea how you reel in.  I fish mostly for bass and that’s probably what I’ll fish for with this rig, but I don’t know what I’d do if a bass took the popper.  How do you set the hook?  I assume you don’t snap the rod up the way you do with a spinning rod, so what do you do?  And reeling, do you reel the bass in by stripping line, or by using the reel?  What do you do if you’ve got a ton of line at your feet and a bass takes it?  Do you let him run while you reel it in or do you strip it in? No bait.  Just flies. Marcus

Bass have a fairly tough mouth.  Generally, move the rod through an arc parallel to the water surface while simultaneously giving a hard strip with your line hand.  Once, you feel the bass fighting and you’ve got all the slack out of the line between the rod tip and the fish. Give another firm pull and try to rip his lips off, this’ll set the hook.  The hardest part about fishing with a popper is pausing the 1/2 sec between when the bass smashes your popper and setting the hook.  If you jerk too soon you’ll pull the fly out of his mouth.  For me 99.5% of the time my reel is only used to store line.  I’ve been at this a few years and have caught a few fish, but I can count on one hand the # of times I’ve had the fight a LMB from the reel.  The Hawgs, 5 lbs and above, will sometimes pull enough line to get onto the reel but its rare.  I’ve tried to reel all the slack in just to fight fish from the reel and they throw the hook while I’m putzing around.  Poppers are usually only good early in the morning and right before sun down.  Most of my LMB are caught subsurface on Clousers, Wooly Buggers, or Dell’s Merkins (yeah, the saltwater permit fly). Good Luck. Patrick

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Dangit, forgot my real important question. HOW do you get the nail into the fly line?  I’ll be damned if I can get it to go in more than 3 mm. Marcus

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just anwser these questens. how do you cast? how do you tell what line to use? how do you real in? how do you cast back out? what bate should i use? hi from payday8887

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how do you cast? how do you tell what line to use? how do you real in? how do you cast back out? what bate should i use?

I’d like to echo these questions with some of my own.  I’m just getting into fly fishing.  I am figuring out casting.  It’s hard, but not impossible. Books are okay for this, videos better.  Ha! I know the answer to #2, use the line that matches your rod.  If you have a 7 rod, use a 7 line.  As for weight forward, double taper, etc, I dunno.  I’m using weight forward since I hear it’s easier for beginners. I have no idea how you reel in.  I fish mostly for bass and that’s probably what I’ll fish for with this rig, but I don’t know what I’d do if a bass took the popper.  How do you set the hook?  I assume you don’t snap the rod up the way you do with a spinning rod, so what do you do?  And reeling, do you reel the bass in by stripping line, or by using the reel?  What do you do if you’ve got a ton of line at your feet and a bass takes it?  Do you let him run while you reel it in or do you strip it in? No bait.  Just flies. Marcus

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Question:

The Ranch has been sold to a private party who will be closing it up to ANY access by non-rich, non-friends-of -his. They will be open through June and the fishing is terrific.  You might even consider a guide for a half day to accellerate your success on stream.  I would recommend Kevin who books out of the Trout Fly in Mammoth. Have a great time. Bob

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The Ranch has been sold to a private party who will be closing it up to ANY access by non-rich, non-friends-of -his.

I just spoke to the Ranch, and it is NOT sold.  It is, however, in escrow. It may or may not close escrow…  The Ranch will honor ALL reservations that have made a deposit through the entire 1998 season. Regards, Wes

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Great News.  I hope it falls through and the Nature Conservancy picks it up.  I did not intend to pass along a false rumor. Bob

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Can anyone tell me if they have fished at this private ranch in the Sierras? It is above Bishop on the Owens River, and I am curious as to what flies may be effective.  Thanks.

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Can anyone tell me if they have fished at this private ranch in the

Sierras?  I am curious as to what flies may be effective.

I have caught huge browns on olive matukas and hornburgs. Talk to Bill Nichols, he’s the ranch manager at 760 648-7807.  He’s always willing to talk fishing and will tell you the straight scoop. Wes

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The is a good article on fishing in the Owens river in Americal Angler magazine May/June 1998.         Nate Liskov – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone tell me if they have fished at this private ranch in the Sierras? It is above Bishop on the Owens River, and I am curious as to what flies may be effective.  Thanks.

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(Rkru) writes: Can anyone tell me if they have fished at this private ranch in the Sierras? It is above Bishop on the Owens River, and I am curious as to what flies may be effective.  Thanks.

Sure,  taught schools there for about 6 or 7 years including 3 schools there last August. The ranch is an amazing place to fish.  Small alpine (7200 ft. elevation) spring creek with a meandering course, mostly wide open meadow.  Water is slow to medium speed throughout and supports ridiculously large numbers of fish.  It is very dry there, drink lots of water and don’t forget the sunblock. Recently saw an article claiming the Upper Owens had 11,000 fish per mile. That number came from an electro-shock survey in 1985 on the Arcularius Ranch and *does not apply* to the rest of the Upper Owens,  just the ranch section. This huge number includes fingerlings as well as monsters. The public access section of the Upper Owens fishes best in spring during the Rainbow’s spawning run out of Lake Crowley, and again in the fall when the Browns make their run upriver.  June, July and August are tough, although there does seem to be an increase in the resident population in the lower section over the last few years. Just because there are large numbers of fish at the Arc doesn’t mean they’re easy to catch.  Fish are spooky, there is almost no cover throughout most of the river, and you better get an absolute dead drift if you want to catch fish.  Walk softly, be sneaky, and carry a long rod. Many times people fishing at the ranch will tell you that you that "this is the only fly that works".   Not so.  the river is full of insects: #18 – #20 baetis all season, #10 Green Drakes in June and sometimes July, Caddis all season (size 14 to 18), little yellow stones june through September, midges all season, sporadic PMD’s May – July, ants – all season, hoppers sometimes as early as mid-July (more commomly mid-August), scuds – all season (#12 and #16 green and also gray),  crane flys oviposit in late August through mid-September.  The list goes on, but those are most of the important ones.  I had three students, catch 5 fish on five different flys one day there.  They used: #18 PT nymph, #12 olive flashback scud, #20 midge pupa,  #16 olive elk hair caddis, and a #10 Hopper. The crane flys in September are a real kick.  They drag their legs behind them as they oviposit on the water and the trout really bust them.  The trout don’t successfully catch many of them, but not for lack of trying.  Fun to see a fish bust the surface three or four times trying to catch one of them.   You need to skate your imitation across the surface to imitate them and this is about the only time you can catch fish without a dead drift.  Last couple of hours of light is usually the best time for this. Some of the largest fish each year are also taken in low light conditions (early morning, late evening, or just overcast all day) with large streamers. Won’t catch as many fish with streamers, but there are some monsters and many of the really big browns don’t even become active until just before dark. There was huge amount of water that blasted through the Arc a couple of years ago and it scoured the river bottom out and changed a number of the holes.  The Bedsprings Hole which used to be 6 feet deep is now gravelled over.  I think the river is in better shape because of it. Usually the big trout are well hidden and you have to fish the right water to get them. Last year In August there were a lot of very large fish in pretty shallow water.  Found a number of 18 to 20" bows and browns in bathtub or washtub sized depressions near shore last year.  Unusual to find the big trout exposed like that.  Still tough to catch and easily spooked, but you could sight-fish to them. Although Dotty and Ken are no longer hosting the ranch, Bill Nichols, who is now the manager, is extremely knowledgable and helpful.  Don’t hesitate to ask him for tips and pointers if what you’re doing doesn’t work.  He’ll give it to you straight. Enjoy your trip, it’s a great (though challenging) place to fish.                                            Hope this helps,                                                     Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know what you are flying but when flying my instructors Turbo Aztec, six full grown american people and topped off I can hold 15,000 on one engine, well, or as long as my leg holds out. cg It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. Reinhard

First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James The two longest legs are Oakland to Honolulu 2100 NM and from there you have another long leg, either HNL to Majuro, Marshall Islands, or HNL to Tarawa, Republic of Kiribati, the latter one being a good stop, but almost again as far as OAK-HNL. After that you can choose your legs more easily and they are considerably shorter.

You could also go up to Alaska, across and down through Russia, over to Japan and then on to the South Pacific.  It is a much longer journey, but no 2000 mile over water legs. (I wonder how far the jump to Palau would be, I’ve always wanted to go there…) Brian

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First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard I only show from OAK to PHNL to be 2089 nm that would only be about 10 hrs in the air.

My rounded off 2100 NM was only a paltry 11 NM off from your very accurate 2089!! well within range 300 gal, 1800 lbs, but you would not be flying  more than 5 hours on one engine. cg

It is quite obvious to me that you are an armchair pilot who has never done anything like this before. Your numbers are all wrong, and I hope for your sake that you never try it. You would most certainly get your feet wet. It took me 13 hours in a Baron 58 and 15 in a Twin Bonanza. Your turbos in that Aztec would most likely do very little if anything for you since westbound to HNL most frequently you need to stay at 10K or below lest you catch the prevailing westerlies which are very strong at altitude. So you would do well to get 150K over the water. Reinhard

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I only show from OAK to PHNL to be 2089 nm that would only be about 10 hrs in the air. well within range 300 gal, 1800 lbs, but you would not be flying  more than 5 hours on one engine.   cg First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard

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First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard

I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… …cruising between 150 to 200 miles per hour… Greater cruising speeds are possible, but the size of the earth does not warrent greater speeds. -Igor Sikorsky in 1934

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It doesn’t matter a great deal what the legal reserve is.  Winds over the Pacific on that flight are usually against you.  If you go high at all to minimize fuel consumption the head winds increase.  The Aztec is NOT a fast airplane for its fuel consumption.   To fly that leg without considerably MORE than a 45 minute reserve, is to seriously invite wet feet.  The 3  hour reserve is not bad.  The 14 hours is quite optimistic, in my opinion.  I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks!   John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… …cruising between 150 to 200 miles per hour… Greater cruising speeds are possible, but the size of the earth does not warrent greater speeds. -Igor Sikorsky in 1934

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OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James James, It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. The two longest legs are Oakland to Honolulu 2100 NM and from there you have another long leg, either HNL to Majuro, Marshall Islands, or HNL to Tarawa, Republic of Kiribati, the latter one being a good stop, but almost again as far as OAK-HNL. After that you can choose your legs more easily and they are considerably shorter. Reinhard

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What did you assume that I would try it without any  preflight planning?? cg It is quite obvious to me that you are an armchair pilot who has never done anything like this before. Your numbers are all wrong, and I hope for your sake that you never try it. You would most certainly get your feet wet. It took me 13 hours in a Baron 58 and 15 in a Twin Bonanza. Your turbos in that Aztec would most likely do very little if anything for you since westbound to HNL most frequently you need to stay at 10K or below lest you catch the prevailing westerlies which are very strong at altitude. So you would do well to get 150K over the water. Reinhard

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First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  

Surely you jest, Doug. Kidding aside, the special flight permit that you get for the overload condition and he temporary fuel tank installation requires you calculate in a 3 hour reserve on transoceanic flights. Things can happen while on such a long flight; the forecast winds can turn out different, you might have equipment problems that cause you to burn more fuel for less airspeed than you had planned, etc. I have had several a couple of occasions when I was glad for the extra fuel. Remember, there is only one time when you can have too much fuel: when you are on fire. Reinhard

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It doesn’t matter a great deal what the legal reserve is.  Winds over the Pacific on that flight are usually against you.  If you go high at all to minimize fuel consumption the head winds increase.  The Aztec is NOT a fast airplane for its fuel consumption.   To fly that leg without considerably MORE than a 45 minute reserve, is to seriously invite wet feet.  The 3  hour reserve is not bad.  The 14 hours is quite optimistic, in my opinion.  I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks!  

How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil.

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I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks! How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil.

If you stay below 10k feet, you will frequently find winds that are not too bad. You often find about 10 knots of help down low.. Under no circumstances would I start out with ANY headwind on that leg. Then you could make HNL in about 14-15 hrs in an Aztec. Taking a Baron to Fiji last year, I flew at 6K feet to HNL and did quite well. (13 hrs.) Fitting all that fuel into the plane is really not so difficult. There are professional tanking outfits that install ferry tanks in the cabin in a day. You are certainly correct when you adress the oil issue. It is absolutely essential that you know the oil consumption of your engines. And there is also a way to rig an oil replenishing setup to that you can add oil in flight. Reinhard

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OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James

Well Jon Johanson has done it both ways (make that crossed the Pacific … ) in an RV-4 during his round the world trips. Check out his Web site at http://www.mag-net.educ.monash.edu.au/saaa/head.html. He has also published his autobio called "Aiming High", Wakefield Press, South Australia, ISBN 1 86254 424 7. Highly recommended reading for anyone building their own plane. Rgds JD   …… I’d rather be flying ….. John Duncan M.C.N.E.  PPL(A)  J.P.  AOPA(Aust)#42745 EAA#548147 J & J Network Services Pty Ltd P.O. Box 109 Minto N.S.W. 2566 Australia

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My tongue was firmly in cheek.  I don’t fly VFR without at least 1 hour reserve. — Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It doesn’t matter a great deal what the legal reserve is.  Winds over the Pacific on that flight are usually against you.  If you go high at all to minimize fuel consumption the head winds increase.  The Aztec is NOT a fast airplane for its fuel consumption.   To fly that leg without considerably MORE than a 45 minute reserve, is to seriously invite wet feet.  The 3  hour reserve is not bad.  The 14 hours is quite optimistic, in my opinion.  I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks!   John I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… …cruising between 150 to 200 miles per hour… Greater cruising speeds are possible, but the size of the earth does not warrent greater speeds. -Igor Sikorsky in 1934

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No idea about a KR2, but you might want to read Sport Aviation (past few issues) and look for the 2 part round the world story by the author and Burt Rutan, who flew their Long EZ’s around the world. Very informative (and nice pictures – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James Well Jon Johanson has done it both ways (make that crossed the Pacific … ) in an RV-4 during his round the world trips. Check out his Web site at http://www.mag-net.educ.monash.edu.au/saaa/head.html. He has also published his autobio called "Aiming High", Wakefield Press, South Australia, ISBN 1 86254 424 7. Highly recommended reading for anyone building their own plane.

James, You are considering a monumental task here ol chap, this sought of feat requires a hell of a lot of homework and I would suggest you’re really stretching it in a KR-2. With a large amount of retro-fitting you could possibly carry out this adventure, however the stakes are extremely high! I would also endorse the above, ie read Jon Johannson’s book and while your doing that bare a thought for the planning both technically and enroute that goes into these voyages. You may also wish to contact the "Mick & Dick" of "Round the World Friendship Tour":- Sport Aviation Feb edition Pg 76. For a start, unless you’ve got heaps of "Bucks" behind you, just go build your A/C and enjoy flying it around the "States". Whilst I’ll admit, I don’t have an intermit knowledge of the KR-2 and its weight & balance etc, it is only small by any standards. Its payload excess does not go down well with the number crunching required when you consider such additions as fuel, extra redundancy systems req’d, and ESPECIALLY CONSIDER ENGINE RELIABLITY etc, etc. To say the least, 18 plus hours is a long time to spend in the close confines of a KR-2 cockpit, surrounded by custom built ferry tanks around your ears. I have two buddies that were involved in Ferry Flights across the Pacific in their younger days. One of them did get his feet wet mid Pacific (1200 Nm from nowhere & at night) when the nut on the Alternator pulley worked its way loose. Lucky for him he had spotted a fishing boat a couple of hours before and was able to back track and relocate it. All be it, he was now down to torch and compass. That was in a brand new production A/C as well. Glenn now does his long transcontinental flights the same way I do, the only way:-In style at 43,000 ft. James, whilst your challenge is a commendable one, the golden rule is to keep your feet dry. Best way to do that is travel the South Pacific the same way most of us do, In a 747, 767 etc, and don’t forget you can have the added advantage of sipping champagne or other adult beverages!! If you’re considering going on from HNL to other South Pacific destinations, then you have a hole heap more challenges in front of you. Regards Ray (Just my 2 cents worth) J.

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I don’t know what you are flying but when flying my instructors Turbo Aztec, six full grown american people and topped off I can hold 15,000 on one engine, well, or as long as my leg holds out. cg It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. Reinhard

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How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil.

The Aztec would burn considerably more than 8-10 GPH.  Probably closer to 25 GPH.  So we are talking about over 500 gallons.  The Aztec is a rather slow twin with a pair of 250 HP flat engines.  It is Pipers upscale Apache, just as the Beech Baron is the high power version of the Travelair. John

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What is the availability of av-gas in Russia. I hear that it’s non-existant. D.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks! How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil. If you stay below 10k feet, you will frequently find winds that are not too bad. You often find about 10 knots of help down low.. Under no circumstances would I start out with ANY headwind on that leg. Then you could make HNL in about 14-15 hrs in an Aztec. Taking a Baron to Fiji last year, I flew at 6K feet to HNL and did quite well. (13 hrs.) Fitting all that fuel into the plane is really not so difficult. There are professional tanking outfits that install ferry tanks in the cabin in a day. You are certainly correct when you adress the oil issue. It is absolutely essential that you know the oil consumption of your engines. And there is also a way to rig an oil replenishing setup to that you can add oil in flight. Reinhard

Reinhard is exactly right.  You notice in the original post that I did mention that it would take some fancy ferry tanks to get the fuel in! When my airplane flew across the Atlantic from Brazil to Cornwall, they added a special fancy ferry tank.  A 50 gallon drum on chocks where the back seat goes, with a wobble pump to pump fuel up into the wing tank. They recommended that you run the wing tank down to less than a quarter full before pumping fuel up to it.  They said watch the gauges so you do not overfill it and pump fuel overboard.   The also recommended the long distance power setting of 1800 RPM and 23 inches of manifold pressure.  That was supposed to get the fuel consumption down to 14.7 gallons per hour.  That gave a little over eight hours in the air.  At that power setting, you get 100 knots! Still wouldn’t make Honolulu! John

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

James, It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. The two longest legs are Oakland to Honolulu 2100 NM and from there you have another long leg, either HNL to Majuro, Marshall Islands, or HNL to Tarawa, Republic of Kiribati, the latter one being a good stop, but almost again as far as OAK-HNL. After that you can choose your legs more easily and they are considerably shorter. Reinhard

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James I think someone tried this in a twin.  Her name was Amelia something….. Sorrry, it was too easy to pass on  :-)

Like minds I guess, but I resisted.  Abacus.com has an add-on for MS Flight Simulator that follows her route.    It wasn’t/isn’t an easy flight. John J. Miller

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

Da Plane, Boss, Da Plane! (sorry, just couldn’t help myself) John Galban====N4BQ (PA28-180)

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

I think someone tried this in a twin.  Her name was Amelia something….. Sorrry, it was too easy to pass on  :-) Jeff Oslick

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

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Check out http://www.calle.com/aviation/airports.cgi Allows you to specify departure, destination, range and speed, and displays a nice table and map of the results. Lots of material for dream flights… BTW you probably don’t want a totally deserted island; food, water, fuel, runway and women should be minimum requirements (the website allows you to specify 2 out of these 5 Eric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

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Question:

I’ve recently started freshwater fly fishing and having read about where to look for the fish, I’d like to see a video on reading a stream.  Does anyone have a good video to recommend? Virginia Rick

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I’ve recently started freshwater fly fishing and having read about where to look for the fish, I’d like to see a video on reading a stream.  Does anyone have a good video to recommend?

Hi Virginia, Check out the old Scientific Anglers tape "Anatomy of a Trout Stream" with Rick Hafele.  He uses a giant orange phony fish to show you some of the best holding spots for trout.  The rest of the tape is full of great info even if Rick has to squint into the camera most of the time.  This tape will not only show you where to find them, but also explain why you find them there.                    Hope this helps,                           Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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Question:

Try Sunset crater the area if really nice, and if I’m not mistaken… It is where some of the Lunar Apollo astronauts trained for a while back in the 60’s. Not too far from Flagstaff either. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had so much success in my last post asking for this info for the Santa Fe area, that since my travel plans have now changed I thought I’d try again.  I’ll now be in the Sedona/Flagstaff area for 2 weeks in mid-October, instead of the Santa Fe area.  While there I’d like to do some backpacking – I don’t mind wandering some reasonable distance from the area to do it – S. Utah would be OK, too, for example. Does anyone have any tips?  I’m interested in something physically rigorous and wild.  I would think that I’ll have time for a couple of trips in the 3-5 day range, and may have time for a couple of day-hikes or overnighters also.  Have been to Superstition Wilderness before, so some other recommendation would be appreciated.  Ideally, I could fly-fish there, too. Any advice would be gratefully received – thanks, all.

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I had so much success in my last post asking for this info for the Santa Fe area, that since my travel plans have now changed I thought I’d try again.  I’ll now be in the Sedona/Flagstaff area for 2 weeks in mid-October, instead of the Santa Fe area.  While there I’d like to do some backpacking – I don’t mind wandering some reasonable distance from the area to do it – S. Utah would be OK, too, for example.

At Peak to Peak Trail and Wilderness Links (http://home.earthlink.net/~swfry/pk2pk/p2p.html) you will find 15 web sites listed for Arizona and 11 for Utah – each with trip reports and trail descriptions! Does anyone have any tips?  I’m interested in something physically rigorous and wild.  I would think that I’ll have time for a couple of trips in the 3-5 day range, and may have time for a couple of day-hikes or overnighters also.  Have been to Superstition Wilderness before, so some other recommendation would be appreciated.  Ideally, I could fly-fish there, too. Any advice would be gratefully received – thanks, all.

–      Peak to Peak Trail and Wilderness Links   http://home.earthlink.net/~swfry/pk2pk/p2p.html

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I had so much success in my last post asking for this info for the Santa Fe area, that since my travel plans have now changed I thought I’d try again.  I’ll now be in the Sedona/Flagstaff area for 2 weeks in mid-October, instead of the Santa Fe area.  While there I’d like to do some backpacking – I don’t mind wandering some reasonable distance from the area to do it – S. Utah would be OK, too, for example. Does anyone have any tips?  I’m interested in something physically rigorous and wild.  I would think that I’ll have time for a couple of trips in the 3-5 day range, and may have time for a couple of day-hikes or overnighters also.  Have been to Superstition Wilderness before, so some other recommendation would be appreciated.  Ideally, I could fly-fish there, too. Any advice would be gratefully received – thanks, all.

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12 Sept 97 To hike and include fly fishing, try the Lake Poweel area with a day the North Rim of the Grand Canyon is always spectacular. Normally, I’d say spend a few days in Supai, 8 miles into the Canyon with the only Native Americans still living in the Canyon.But flash flooding makes that a bad idea just now. You might give some thought to hiking in Bryce Canyon, Zion (though they might be having flash floods too), and through the Rim country in Sedona. Lots of variety and weather conditions. Usually this would be a great time of year to come here, but the very late monsoons have made every afternoon a potential thunderstorm nightmare. In fact, yesterday, NE of Flagstaff by 60 miles there were 4 funnel clouds spotted while 2 hikers were caught in a flash flood in the Canyon. Perhaps another month will bring some sanity to our weather. Have a great time. If you need books, maps, or equipment let us know. // – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had so much success in my last post asking for this info for the Santa Fe area, that since my travel plans have now changed I thought I’d try again.  I’ll now be in the Sedona/Flagstaff area for 2 weeks in mid-October, instead of the Santa Fe area.  While there I’d like to do some backpacking – I don’t mind wandering some reasonable distance from the area to do it – S. Utah would be OK, too, for example. Does anyone have any tips?  I’m interested in something physically rigorous and wild.  I would think that I’ll have time for a couple of trips in the 3-5 day range, and may have time for a couple of day-hikes or overnighters also.  Have been to Superstition Wilderness before, so some other recommendation would be appreciated.  Ideally, I could fly-fish there, too. Any advice would be gratefully received – thanks, all.

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Question:

I went to their web site today…http://www.flyfishamerica.com. <<

Don:  That’s not the Federation.  You found a new fly fishing magazine that has both electronic and print versions.  They have the complete content of the print version (including all seven regional editions) on their website, so you need Acrobat to be able to capture and read it all.  Free print copies are available through fly shops, but you’ll only get your local region’s section.                                                 Brian

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Could someone please re-post the Web page URL and/or 800 number for the Federation of Fly Fishers.  I seem to have lost the paper I wrote it on. Thanks in advance. Puck Wullenweber Ithaca, NY FFF  http://www.ool.com/fff/Federation of Fly Fishers

PO Box 1595 Bozeman MT 59771 406-585-7592

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I went to their web site today…http://www.flyfishamerica.com. Unfortunately, it is another one of those sites where you have to get their damn special software to view, so I can’t tell you what is there. — Don Jordan POB 2357 Chiefland, FL 32644 http://ripserv.com/indyjones

HI! Don! Click on Adobe Acrobat for a free downloading when you visit the site next time. Hans!

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Could someone please re-post the Web page URL and/or 800 number for the Federation of Fly Fishers.  I seem to have lost the paper I wrote it on. Thanks in advance. Puck Wullenweber Ithaca, NY

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I went to their web site today…http://www.flyfishamerica.com.   Unfortunately, it is another one of those sites where you have to get their damn special software to view, so I can’t tell you what is there. — Don Jordan POB 2357 Chiefland, FL 32644 http://ripserv.com/indyjones

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Could someone please re-post the Web page URL and/or 800 number for the Federation of Fly Fishers.  I seem to have lost the paper I wrote it on. Thanks in advance. Puck Wullenweber Ithaca, NY

FFF  http://www.ool.com/fff/

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Could someone please re-post the Web page URL and/or 800 number for the Federation of Fly Fishers.  I seem to have lost the paper I wrote it on. Thanks in advance. Puck Wullenweber Ithaca, NY FFF  http://www.ool.com/fff/

Hi Puck You can find acces to the FFF at http://www.flyfishing.com/fff/index.html  or call them at 406-585-7592. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Question:

Hello All; I have been flyfishing the Deschutes for the last couple of years, and am ready to try the ‘Promised Land’ of Montana.  My inlaws just moved to Red Lodge, and we are visiting in a couple of weeks.  I would appreciate any input on water, flys, flyshops and guides around the area. An insight would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Joe Madden

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: Hello All; : I have been flyfishing the Deschutes for the last couple of years, and am : ready to try the ‘Promised Land’ of Montana.  My inlaws just moved to Red : Lodge, and we are visiting in a couple of weeks.  I would appreciate any input : on water, flys, flyshops and guides around the area. To get from Oregon to Montana, all but the most relaxed traveller will pass through Idaho.  I recommend you stop and smell the trout before moving on to the "Promised Land." — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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To get from Oregon to Montana, all but the most relaxed traveller will pass through Idaho.  I recommend you stop and smell the trout before moving on to the "Promised Land."

Surely this was a typo, right? Didn’t this really mean moving on "from" the promised land? :] Alan (already in the PL)

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Rock Creek on the outside of town (toward the mountains) is decent, but I’d go on over the pass and hit the Clark’s Fork of the Yellowstone.  Try the canyon off the Chief Joseph Highway.  Tough to get to, but big rainbows in there. Nearly all the lakes on top have brookies.  Some have cuts and ‘bows.   Try the upper lake at Island Lake campground for larger brookies. Fishing was tough this year, mainly due to high water last spring.  I live in Silver Gate in summers and fish inside the park most of the time. It only costs $20 to fish yellowstone (was free three years ago).   Down below, The Rosebud isn’t far from REd Lodge, and the Stillwater is also close.  Stillwater has some excellent spots on loop where river turns away from road.  Lots of fast water.  They should be looking for hoppers this time of year.  If that doesn’t work, try parachute duns and Madame X.

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