Question:

Gotta side with Ghinky on the leaders. Knotless leaders suck bigtime. Also giving him the benefit of the doubt (I hope I don’t regret this) I suspect he meant single vs. double or triple. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why don’t you just read you leader normally?  What is the problem by sticking to "Fair Chase," rules of fly fishing? It’s silly.  It calls for hand-tied leaders (who cares?) and barbed hooks (get real.) People use indicators because they do not know how to read the fly line, fishing conditions, or the leader properly. That is an uninformed opinion at best, and a lie at worst.

Response:

Why don’t you just read you leader normally?  What is the problem by sticking to "Fair Chase," rules of fly fishing?

It’s silly.  It calls for hand-tied leaders (who cares?) and barbed hooks (get real.) People use indicators because they do not know how to read the fly line, fishing conditions, or the leader properly.

That is an uninformed opinion at best, and a lie at worst.

Response:

Man… I was just kidding….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many do have bad eye sight, but that is what corrective lens and Polaroids are for Beetle. Look, if you want to use an indicator, that is your choice.  I was only asking and you answered my question. Thanks, George I guess because I can’t SEE my leader in fast pocket water I suppose…. As far as the argument about indicators being like radar…. I guess that makes dry fly fisherman what? So inept they need a tailslap or a big poppy SLURP to know they got a bite? Beetle — (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

The patent is for Xink not Gink.

DOH ! You’re right of course, I just assumed if Le Duc du Chocolat said it, it must be so. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Many do have bad eye sight, but that is what corrective lens and Polaroids are for Beetle.   Look, if you want to use an indicator, that is your choice.  I was only asking and you answered my question. Thanks, George I guess because I can’t SEE my leader in fast pocket water I suppose…. As far as the argument about indicators being like radar…. I guess that makes dry fly fisherman what? So inept they need a tailslap or a big poppy SLURP to know they got a bite? Beetle

– (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

If Gink is outlawed only outlaws will have Gink.

Seriously ROFLMAO — Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno 406-626-4022

Response:

The patent is for Xink not Gink. DOH ! You’re right of course, I just assumed if Le Duc du Chocolat said it, it must be so.

Yep, I didn’t look either. — Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno 406-626-4022

Response:

Ken Fortenberry writes: Something to consider … I have no interest in having my name in any record book.  Besides, I can’t find gink in any of the fly shops I visit.

No, I don’t either. I think the "record" thing is a little silly and of more interest to tackle manufacturer’s bragging rights and marketing schemes than to Joe Angler. I do confess to having stuck a bottle of Gink in my vest from the pile at Wayno’s Original ‘Clave but I have long since thrown it away and I don’t look for it in flyshops. Interesting to note, however, that it’s probably illegal to use Gink on the "Artificials Only" waters in Montana. I may start to look for Gink in flyshops just to pass on this interesting bit of info. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

The patent is for Xink not Gink. I don’t know if gink is scented but I bet George will tell us. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gherke writes: Why don’t you just read you leader normally?  What is the problem by sticking to "Fair Chase," rules of fly fishing? Probably because the "Fair Chase" is *your* idea. That’s why gink has scent in it. <g Thanks to Mike Connor’s posting the patent info we now know that Gink floatant contains scent. This would make any fish caught using a fly treated with Gink ineligible for any IGFA tippet class record according to IGFA regulation F ; "No scent, either natural or artificial is allowed on flies. The use of scented material in a fly is prohibited." http://www.igfa.org/rulebook/page2.html Something to consider if you’re interested in having your name in the record book. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Interesting to note, however, that it’s probably illegal to use Gink on the "Artificials Only" waters in Montana. I may start to look for Gink in flyshops just to pass on this interesting bit of info.

If Gink is outlawed only outlaws will have Gink. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Charlie Choc writes: Gherke writes: Why don’t you just read you leader normally?  What is the problem by sticking to "Fair Chase," rules of fly fishing? Probably because the "Fair Chase" is *your* idea.   That’s why gink has scent in it. <g — Charlie…

All soap does, but I didn’t know floatant did.  <g Dave

Response:

Ken Fortenberry writes:

(snip) Something to consider if you’re interested in having your name in the record book.

I have no interest in having my name in any record book.  Besides, I can’t find gink in any of the fly shops I visit.  And, they aren’t Orvis either. Dave

Response:

All soap does, but I didn’t know floatant did.  <g

Not sure what gink is, but according to it’s patent it has scent. <g — Charlie…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks to Mike Connor’s posting the patent info we now know that Gink floatant contains scent. This would make any fish caught using a fly treated with Gink ineligible for any IGFA tippet class record according to IGFA regulation F ; "No scent, either natural or artificial is allowed on flies. The use of scented material in a fly is prohibited." http://www.igfa.org/rulebook/page2.html Something to consider if you’re interested in having your name in the record book. — Ken Fortenberry

Plus, here in Montana, when a stretch of river is labeled as "artificial fly only", any "scent" is considered as "natural bait" and DOES NOT meet the "artificial fly" definition. This means that all the fly fishermen who fish those stretches and use GINK are/have been breaking the law. Hope the warden isn’t reading this. — Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno 406-626-4022

Response:

I guess because I can’t SEE my leader in fast pocket water I suppose…. As far as the argument about indicators being like radar…. I guess that makes dry fly fisherman what? So inept they need a tailslap or a big poppy SLURP to know they got a bite? Beetle

Response:

Gherke writes: Why don’t you just read you leader normally?  What is the problem by sticking to "Fair Chase," rules of fly fishing? Probably because the "Fair Chase" is *your* idea.  

That’s why gink has scent in it. <g — Charlie…

Response:

Gherke writes: Why don’t you just read you leader normally?  What is the problem by sticking to "Fair Chase," rules of fly fishing? Probably because the "Fair Chase" is *your* idea. That’s why gink has scent in it. <g

Thanks to Mike Connor’s posting the patent info we now know that Gink floatant contains scent. This would make any fish caught using a fly treated with Gink ineligible for any IGFA tippet class record according to IGFA regulation F ; "No scent, either natural or artificial is allowed on flies. The use of scented material in a fly is prohibited." http://www.igfa.org/rulebook/page2.html Something to consider if you’re interested in having your name in the record book. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Why don’t you just read you leader normally?  What is the problem by sticking to "Fair Chase," rules of fly fishing? http://www.gink.com/articles_stories/ginkchaserules.html We have not inserted using indicators, yea or nay, yet.  Frankly, I’m against it for a variety of reasons.  The opinions regarding indicators in the present generation is one of mass hysteria because ‘everyone else is doing it’ doesn’t make it right.  People use indicators because they do not know how to read the fly line, fishing conditions, or the leader properly.  Indicators are not, what many agree, fair chase.  It really is a weapon because it makes ‘fly fishing easier’.  It is as close to imitating ‘radar’ as any tool thought of in fly fishing. But my question to you remains.  Why do you think you need to fly fish with indicators on  your leader or fly line? Thank you, George — (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

Gherke writes: Why don’t you just read you leader normally?  What is the problem by sticking to "Fair Chase," rules of fly fishing?

Probably because the "Fair Chase" is *your* idea.  Borger, LaFontaine, Kaufman and other WORLD FLY FISHERS use indicators.  You are a nobody, George, so why would anyone follow your fair chse.  Your ideas on fly fishing mean nothing to most of us because you are a liar, braggart, and fool.   Dave LaCourse, Pirate and CBD

Response:

Thanks all, I appreciate it… I’m thinking part of it might be a little laziness mid-stream and leaving smaller tippet than I needed for a #12 indicator, hence the twist, probably mostly occuring because it was fairly swift pocket water [North Fork Middle Willamette] and letting it swing at all at the end of the drift was causing the most twist as the fly rolled along the surface? At any rate, I shall re-try the hook-bend method with a size or two bigger material ahead of the indicator… Aside from the twist, watching the setup it looked like something I really hope to try once I start to see some caddis activity here on my river as the indicator skips and rolls on slight swing with an emerger beneath…  Maybe a nice bushy black elkhair caddis and a cdc or elkhair caddis emerger…. Thanks again Beetle

Response:

I’ve never fished with and indicator fly before yesterday… apparently there was a cosmic reason too… I have a number of books and videos by people like Gary LaFontaine, etc… that suggest various methods, but I remain stumped.

Connecting the dropper to the hook bend works better for me.  It does not usually work too well with a large weighted nymph or a nymph with a large bead head.  How big/weighted/beaded is your nymph?  If you can get by with something like a stimulator it will probably float it better.

Response:

Bob Weinberger writes:

(Outstanding advice snipped) I would only add that your cast is more of a circular cast than you would normally make.  There ain’t no loop, or at least it is so opened up that it doesn’t look like a normal loop. It is  more of a lob started when the rig gets down stream from you.  No false casting, and try to keep distance to a maximum of 30 feet.  Twisting tippet usually means mis-matched tippet.  A size 12 fly is best matched with 3x or 4x tippet.   Since you state you are using an emerger (instead of a weighted nymph) as a dropper, try going to a smaller indicator fly.  I fish a size 18 emerger that I can not see because it is so small and is just below the surface.  I will either use a strike indicator or a #16 dry about 3 feet above it. Yarn indicator sinking?  Go up one size and use some Albolene or Aquel on it. Dave

Response:

        Leadin snipped So the questions are: 1) is this just inately difficult [meaning I SUCK] 2) what part of this apparently common approach am I missing or do not understand [which rarely happens ] or 3) Should I just stick to the bright yarn method which sinks in 10 minutes of fishing AHGA! Beetle

Beetle, I have tried all three methods that you tried, and I prefer the tie in at the bend of the hook method.  It is critical that you match the size and floatability of the indicator dry to the weight on the trailing fly, i.e. don’t overpower the dry with too much weight.  Also, I have better luck if the indicator is not an upright wing fly and is on a longer shank hook, e.g. use a stimulator or Goddard Caddis. Another hint, the trailer should be on a tippet about 1x smaller than the tippet to the indicator.  If your leader is properly tapered and in balance with the outfit, and  trailer isn’t heavily weighted or on a tippet longer than 3-4′ you should not need to open up your loops very much at all for casts of 30′ or less. I sometimes fish with two small trailers, one 2-3′ from the indicator & another 1-2′ below that. Although, I get more tangles this way than when fishing a single fly, it handles quite well if there is no wind.  Of course if the fish are concentrating on only one of the trailers, I quickly eliminate one of the flies from the rig to ease  handling. HTH Bob Weinberger

Response:

So the questions are: 1) is this just inately difficult [meaning I SUCK] 2) what part of this apparently common approach am I missing or do not understand [which rarely happens ]

You have to pick your situation. Don’t try a dropper fly if it’s very windy, and don’t try to cast the rig like you would a single dry fly, especially if you’re casting weight. Make ugly, chucking-type casts. Every minute you spend untangling a mess is a minute you aren’t putting the flies in front of the fish. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I’ve never fished with and indicator fly before yesterday… apparently there was a cosmic reason too… I have a number of books and videos by people like Gary LaFontaine, etc… that suggest various methods, but I remain stumped. I ended up with a twisted mess everytime. The leader in front of the indicator [fly] would twist up so bad it would knot up. Basically I had a #12 humpy [going on the deer hair floats idea] and an emerger about 15" below that, both were tied to the eye of the attractor, causing the second problem, thehumpy was usually face first/ass up… Then I tried tying the dropper leader material [again about 12" to 15"] to the bend of the hook of the indicator. Less twist, but ass in the water floating too low or drowning and more hangups en-cast. [I did try to open up my loop/backcast]. THEN I figured I was a bit smart, so I put on a knotted leader and a short tippet. In front of the first blood knot above the tippet I attached the indicator with a short [4"???] tippet of it’s own. No indicator twist, but it was always [mostly anyway] wrapped around the leader/tippet in varous ways…. So the questions are: 1) is this just inately difficult [meaning I SUCK] 2) what part of this apparently common approach am I missing or do not understand [which rarely happens ] or 3) Should I just stick to the bright yarn method which sinks in 10 minutes of fishing AHGA! Beetle

Response:

Question:

What do you guys think? — Padishar Creel

 Mike is gone.  Never to grace ROFF again! Opie

Response:

Hold the presses, did I hear that Mike is not going to be part of ROFF?  I want my membership dues refunded immediately.  Mike is one of the best, if not the best part of this NG and we need the long rodder in our midst.  I say we *not accept* Mike’s resignation.  Who is the hell does he thing he is?  He can’t quit, he belongs to us…he must of missed the fine print in the contract, but no ill feelings Mike, just get your butt back on line, pronto, Mister Connor. I think a poem from Mike will suffice as penance!  What do you guys think?

The following which was posted 9/30/00 by Mr. Connor, is one of my favorites: The angler stood in silent concentration casting to a rise a passer-by quite interested, watched the angler cast his flies. "Are there any fish in here" he asked of our friend piscator at last, "I have never seen one here at all, not today, or ever in the past". "There are a few",  our angler then replied with friendly smile, "But it

Question:

Well, not that I am an Indian giver (where did that saying come from?),

        well, from our own indian joe, of course:  one christmas eve, he was up on his rooftop, when along came a jolly old elf and a dozen far out reindeer.  they landed next to joe, startling him;  the white bearded old elf shouted, happily:  we are bringing gifts to you, sir, will you have them?  joe responded testily, "you can give me anything you please, but i’ll give you hell in a peach basket if you don’t get off my roof!         so ends the tale.  asadi, is that you….? wayno

Response:

OK, counselor, how do I get the "master copy" of the shirt to give to my local t-shirt person.  With your permission, of course, I would like to use it for next year’s Easter ‘Clave.  I have a feeling that most claves in the future will have the same print if you and Anthony give us permission, of course. Dave LaCourse

        no problem with me, louie; but anthony is muttering something about a buck per shirt commish…         wayno, who aint worried about college tuition.

Response:

<Lots of good stuff snipped It implies more…but in less words…"Fishing is Life, and Life is Short, so Don’t Waste it !"

Great post! George Adams

Response:

Tim, you’re freakin’ me out, man… Your internal struggles aside, I agree with the sentiment. Well said, and rightly spoken… A damned good shirt it is. I have three – though one of those is for my neighbor Dave "Garden Hackler" LaCourse (you’ll get it when I see you again – probably on our river in September)… Enjoy yours, Tim. And if by some stroke of fortune I see you on the street in Glenwood – RUN LIKE HELL! /daytripper ;^) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have worn my "Caroline Clave ‘99" shirt proudly now several times.  I wore it to work yesterday.   The more I have it, the more I think about it, the more I want to tell Wayne’s son that he has captured *it* perfectly. I mean *perfectly* as in there is no room for improvement. For one, the huge R.O.F.F. on the front…it *should* say, be that man. When I walk down the street here in Glenwood a visiting ROFFian could see it and introduce himself in person.  I want that, I really want that to happen. That some made the Clave, some didn’t, some wouldn’t.  But would wear the shirt, or understand the culmination of and importance of this new technology as we shift milleniums.  Brought together on an electron plane we have become friends in a way new to mankind, new in all ways to our evolution.  "R.O.F.F." in huge letters.  We recognize this. We are proud. A very, very important moment that we’re all experiencing in *our* lives. Perfection. But even more…the phrase…"Fishing is Life, Don’t Waste it", *is* ‘perfect’. Coupled with the youthful idealism of a child drawn innocent rendition of a trout makes it (to the continued chagrin of Maclean’s Mentor) "even more perfect". I struggled with it at first, I admit. "Fishing is Life". At first I thought of obssessive, compulsive greed behavior transmitted in this message, as in "screw the kids, screw the checkbook, screw the environment, I’m going fishing every day of my compulsive screwed up life". But this is more like "Fishing is Too Important to me and I’m out of balance, Sick, about it in fact".  Not the elegent, simpler…."Fishing is Life". No… Fishing *is* life.  The act of fishing, a fisherman, alive in the world, fishing, it is life. It is life. It can be no other thing.  Regardless of any other connotation or metaphor for fishing, it most certainly *is* life. There can be no doubt. "Don’t waste it". Perfect. This is not a statement of "Catch and Release", "Catch and Kill" or "Catch and Count" it’s *whatever it is. *DON’T WASTE IT*.  Catch one, quit and eat it.  Catch several and release them carefully, but *savor* them, *savor* them.  Do NOT waste it.  What better possible statement of conservation, of "Wasting Life" can be said ? It implies more…but in less words…"Fishing is Life, and Life is Short, so Don’t Waste it !" "R.O.F.F. – Caroline Clave ‘99 – Fishing is Life (Youth) Don’t Waste It" I’d certainly like to meet the Harrison’s.  *THAT’S* for damned sure. Way to go Anthony. Way to go Wayno. Way to go ROFF. Your Pal,

Response:

day tripper writes accurately and poetically: <<Tim, you’re freakin’ me out, man… Your internal struggles aside, I agree with the sentiment. Well said, and rightly spoken… Hear, hear.  Could not agree more, Dave.  In fact, I think the Eastern Clave next year will use the same "A. Harrison print", with a different location/date.  What say you all? <<A damned good shirt it is. I have three – though one of those is for my neighbor Dave "Garden Hackler" LaCourse (you’ll get it when I see you again – probably on our river in September)… Well, not that I am an Indian giver (where did that saying come from?), but I gave you my *only* clave t-shirt.  I thought I had another one, but I must have left it in NC.  So, I will see you on the river with your generous offer, sir.  I would have gone to my grave keeping silent about my loss, but since you have *three*, Dave LaCourse

Response:

OK, counselor, how do I get the "master copy" of the shirt to give to my local t-shirt person.  With your permission, of course, I would like to use it for next year’s Easter ‘Clave.  I have a feeling that most claves in the future will have the same print if you and Anthony give us permission, of course. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Well said that man. I am also the proud owner of the aforementioned piece of piscatorial apparel, thanks to the good offices of Mr Harrison. It is just about the most valuable item in my whole fishing collection, but not in terms of money, depicting as it does very many things, much of what you said Tim, and a lot more besides. Maybe one day I will actually get to meet some of you, and that would be very nice, but in the meantime I wear the shirt occasionally, and imagine fishing places like Hazel creek, or hiking up a mountain stream with a few good friends. Getting amiably inebriated on the porch of a log cabin somewhere and discussing C&R vs. C&K in the flesh, singing silly songs, eating weird food that no civilised person would entertain, (grits ???), regularly checking the meniscus on the communal whisky bottle with Wolfgang maybe, and arguing over how many drinks are left in it, and whose turn it is to open the next one,  fishing with miniscule flies for gigantic fish, gigantic flies for miniscule fish, and lots and lots of other things too. Amazing what a simple thing like a t-shirt can conjure up, sort of a cotton version of Aladdin’s lamp. ROFF really is a quite amazing place. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

… Brought together on an electron plane we have become friends in a way new to mankind, new in all ways to our evolution.  "R.O.F.F." in huge letters.  We recognize this. We are proud. …

Gawd, I love it when you get on a roll. There just ain’t no disguisin’ the camaraderie of ROFF in the face of a post from the heart. Thanks, Timbo. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

On certain occasions the statements from Glenwood echo and reverberate… On any occasion I’m proud to say Tim is my friend….this being one. way to go bud. –Walt (who will be wearing his tee proudly this weekend) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have worn my "Caroline Clave ‘99" shirt proudly now several times.  I wore it to work yesterday.   The more I have it, the more I think about it, the more I want to tell Wayne’s son that he has captured *it* perfectly. I mean *perfectly* as in there is no room for improvement. For one, the huge R.O.F.F. on the front…it *should* say, be that man. When I walk down the street here in Glenwood a visiting ROFFian could see it and introduce himself in person.  I want that, I really want that to happen. That some made the Clave, some didn’t, some wouldn’t.  But would wear the shirt, or understand the culmination of and importance of this new technology as we shift milleniums.  Brought together on an electron plane we have become friends in a way new to mankind, new in all ways to our evolution.  "R.O.F.F." in huge letters.  We recognize this. We are proud. A very, very important moment that we’re all experiencing in *our* lives. Perfection. But even more…the phrase…"Fishing is Life, Don’t Waste it", *is* ‘perfect’. Coupled with the youthful idealism of a child drawn innocent rendition of a trout makes it (to the continued chagrin of Maclean’s Mentor) "even more perfect". I struggled with it at first, I admit. "Fishing is Life". At first I thought of obssessive, compulsive greed behavior transmitted in this message, as in "screw the kids, screw the checkbook, screw the environment, I’m going fishing every day of my compulsive screwed up life". But this is more like "Fishing is Too Important to me and I’m out of balance, Sick, about it in fact".  Not the elegent, simpler…."Fishing is Life". No… Fishing *is* life.  The act of fishing, a fisherman, alive in the world, fishing, it is life. It is life. It can be no other thing.  Regardless of any other connotation or metaphor for fishing, it most certainly *is* life. There can be no doubt. "Don’t waste it". Perfect. This is not a statement of "Catch and Release", "Catch and Kill" or "Catch and Count" it’s *whatever it is. *DON’T WASTE IT*.  Catch one, quit and eat it.  Catch several and release them carefully, but *savor* them, *savor* them.  Do NOT waste it.  What better possible statement of conservation, of "Wasting Life" can be said ? It implies more…but in less words…"Fishing is Life, and Life is Short, so Don’t Waste it !" "R.O.F.F. – Caroline Clave ‘99 – Fishing is Life (Youth) Don’t Waste It" I’d certainly like to meet the Harrison’s.  *THAT’S* for damned sure. Way to go Anthony. Way to go Wayno. Way to go ROFF. Your Pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

Mike Connor: <<Maybe one day I will actually get to meet some of you, and that would be very nice, but in the meantime I wear the shirt occasionally, and imagine fishing places like Hazel creek, or hiking up a mountain stream with a few good friends. Getting amiably inebriated on the porch of a log cabin somewhere and discussing C&R vs. C&K in the flesh, singing silly songs, eating weird food that no civilised person would entertain, (grits ???), regularly checking the meniscus on the communal whisky bottle with Wolfgang maybe, and arguing over how many drinks are left in it, and whose turn it is to open the next one,  fishing with miniscule flies for gigantic fish, gigantic flies for miniscule fish, and lots and lots of other things too. Well, my friend from across the pond, all you have to do is show up at Logan Airport, Boston, Ma., in September of 2000.  If you come early, you may spend some time at my home and together we will go to Maine and some wonderful fishing with some wonderful people.  No need to rent a car — just get here.   Perhaps you can drag with you some other Your-o-pean Roffians, like Bill, Hans, and Herman.  Maybe even Christian if he can get away from his studies.  The same offer applies to them — no need to rent a car.  I will provide your transportation.   More info to follow after I venture up north in September.  Sure would be nice to have a European Cabin –  nothing but good ol boys errrrrrr, make that blokes, from across the pond. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Gawd, I love it when you get on a roll. There just ain’t no disguisin’ the camaraderie of ROFF in the face of a post from the heart. Thanks, Timbo. — Ken Fortenberry

speakin’ of camaraderie…how come you ain’t on the road yet?. my kickin foot is gettin’ itchy. waldo — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

speakin’ of camaraderie…how come you ain’t on the road yet?. my kickin foot is gettin’ itchy.

I’ll hit the road at crack of dawn tomorrow, my friend. Hope to be at Jeff’s cabin around 7 Friday evening. FYI, my email has been down since 4 a.m. this morning. A construction crew cut a cable and my office has no electricity. Since I’ve eschewed the campus email system with its built in redundancy in favor of the SGI on my desk that I’ve customized in my own quirky fashion, I find myself hoist on my own petard and incommunicado for the time being. That’s what I get for being a smartass. I’ll try to answer emails before I leave in the morning. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I’ll have a JAX bud waitin fer ya! Waldo the thoughtful – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – speakin’ of camaraderie…how come you ain’t on the road yet?. my kickin foot is gettin’ itchy. I’ll hit the road at crack of dawn tomorrow, my friend. Hope to be at Jeff’s cabin around 7 Friday evening. FYI, my email has been down since 4 a.m. this morning. A construction crew cut a cable and my office has no electricity. Since I’ve eschewed the campus email system with its built in redundancy in favor of the SGI on my desk that I’ve customized in my own quirky fashion, I find myself hoist on my own petard and incommunicado for the time being. That’s what I get for being a smartass. I’ll try to answer emails before I leave in the morning. — Ken Fortenberry

– Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

… and maybe a different color tee as well.

No ! The natural cotton color is PERFECT. Cool, doesn’t draw bugs, blends in for stealth, what more could you ask for in a T-shirt color ? — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Truly an excellent post Tbone. Jeff Boks Fly  Fishing~~~~~Just Do It

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Ken, Don’t forget to make a point of fishing Elk River.  Walt will make up some wild story to keep you off it but don’t be dissuaded!  When you have brought a double digit number of 15 inch + Browns to hand, take some pictures and tales into Fay’s Hardware in Linville to tell Paul.  He keeps a special surprise for the fly fisherman who brings in the best story of fishing the Elk each week! Wayne To fish is human…to release divine.

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day tripper writes accurately and poetically: <<Tim, you’re freakin’ me out, man… Your internal struggles aside, I agree with the sentiment. Well said, and rightly spoken… Hear, hear.  Could not agree more, Dave.  In fact, I think the Eastern Clave next year will use the same "A. Harrison print", with a different location/date.  What say you all?

Excellent! I think making a series of shirts is a killer idea, Dave. Keep the R.O.F.F., keep the artwork, keep the slogan, just change the location and year, and maybe a different color tee as well. Good stuff! <<A damned good shirt it is. I have three – though one of those is for my neighbor Dave "Garden Hackler" LaCourse (you’ll get it when I see you again – probably on our river in September)… Well, not that I am an Indian giver (where did that saying come from?), but I gave you my *only* clave t-shirt.  I thought I had another one, but I must have left it in NC.  So, I will see you on the river with your generous offer, sir.  I would have gone to my grave keeping silent about my loss, but since you have *three*,

As I promised you before, it’s a done deal. I was hoping to present it to you on a striper foray, but while you and I were having a ball on The River, most of the stripers apparently swam on up to Maine. Seems like only the little dudes stuck around down here – the fishing has been very slow on the ‘Mack… /daytripper

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… and maybe a different color tee as well. No ! The natural cotton color is PERFECT. Cool, doesn’t draw bugs, blends in for stealth, what more could you ask for in a T-shirt color ?

Is *that* what this color is? (we don’t grow no cotton in New England). The color is fine, I was just thinking of how to provide some variety in a series of roffian ‘clave shirts. But "blends in for stealth"? Where do you fish where the background is "natural cotton"? Even in the toaster oven that has been New England this year, our backgrounds are greens and browns. Wear a Carolina ‘Clave shirt on the stream here and the fish would have to put on their shades ;^) /daytripper

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On certain occasions the statements from Glenwood echo and reverberate… On any occasion I’m proud to say Tim is my friend….this being one. way to go bud. –Walt (who will be wearing his tee proudly this weekend)

Couldn’t of said it better if Mike had said it for me. Cheers Peter

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Is there a reason for the trailing dot in "R.O.F.F."?

Yes.   Period. Your pal, — TimW

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A damned good shirt it is. I have three – though one of those is for my neighbor Dave "Garden Hackler" LaCourse (you’ll get it when I see you again – probably on our river in September)… Enjoy yours, Tim. And if by some stroke of fortune I see you on the street in Glenwood – RUN LIKE HELL!

God I love this place!  I can’t tell you how much enjoyment I get out of here every day!  It is truely one of the bright spots when I am too busy to be fishing. Warren

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you go, Timbo.  very well said. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … Brought together on an electron plane we have become friends in a way new to mankind, new in all ways to our evolution.  "R.O.F.F." in huge letters.  We recognize this. We are proud. … Gawd, I love it when you get on a roll. There just ain’t no disguisin’ the camaraderie of ROFF in the face of a post from the heart. Thanks, Timbo. — Ken Fortenberry

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I have worn my "Caroline Clave ‘99" shirt proudly now several times.  I wore it to work yesterday.   The more I have it, the more I think about it, the more I want to tell Wayne’s son that he has captured *it* perfectly.    thanks a lot for your comment.  it was very nice.  and 1 more thing.  

just to tell u what i think about my slogan, what i mean about ‘DON’T WASTE IT’ is that, as u said, life is short, but i think if no one has gone fishing at least 730 days in their whole life, their life is not complete.                               From the little man.         and from the big, old, man:  kinder words have never been spoken on behalf of me and mine.  it takes a long time to lose a friend from north carolina.  you never will. wayno

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evolution.  "R.O.F.F." in huge letters.  We recognize this. We are proud.

Is there a reason for the trailing dot in "R.O.F.F."? And, how about a non-clave generic ROFF T-shirt? I’ll have two of those, please. — Christian Figenschou – <URL: http://figen.com

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I have worn my "Caroline Clave ‘99" shirt proudly now several times.  I wore it to work yesterday.   The more I have it, the more I think about it, the more I want to tell Wayne’s son that he has captured *it* perfectly. I mean *perfectly* as in there is no room for improvement. For one, the huge R.O.F.F. on the front…it *should* say, be that man. When I walk down the street here in Glenwood a visiting ROFFian could see it and introduce himself in person.  I want that, I really want that to happen. That some made the Clave, some didn’t, some wouldn’t.  But would wear the shirt, or understand the culmination of and importance of this new technology as we shift milleniums.  Brought together on an electron plane we have become friends in a way new to mankind, new in all ways to our evolution.  "R.O.F.F." in huge letters.  We recognize this. We are proud. A very, very important moment that we’re all experiencing in *our* lives. Perfection. But even more…the phrase…"Fishing is Life, Don’t Waste it", *is* ‘perfect’. Coupled with the youthful idealism of a child drawn innocent rendition of a trout makes it (to the continued chagrin of Maclean’s Mentor) "even more perfect". I struggled with it at first, I admit. "Fishing is Life". At first I thought of obssessive, compulsive greed behavior transmitted in this message, as in "screw the kids, screw the checkbook, screw the environment, I’m going fishing every day of my compulsive screwed up life". But this is more like "Fishing is Too Important to me and I’m out of balance, Sick, about it in fact".  Not the elegent, simpler…."Fishing is Life". No… Fishing *is* life.  The act of fishing, a fisherman, alive in the world, fishing, it is life. It is life. It can be no other thing.  Regardless of any other connotation or metaphor for fishing, it most certainly *is* life. There can be no doubt. "Don’t waste it". Perfect. This is not a statement of "Catch and Release", "Catch and Kill" or "Catch and Count" it’s *whatever it is. *DON’T WASTE IT*.  Catch one, quit and eat it.  Catch several and release them carefully, but *savor* them, *savor* them.  Do NOT waste it.  What better possible statement of conservation, of "Wasting Life" can be said ? It implies more…but in less words…"Fishing is Life, and Life is Short, so Don’t Waste it !" "R.O.F.F. – Caroline Clave ‘99 – Fishing is Life (Youth) Don’t Waste It" I’d certainly like to meet the Harrison’s.  *THAT’S* for damned sure. Way to go Anthony. Way to go Wayno. Way to go ROFF. Your Pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Question:

I’m looking for a fresh water fly fishing buddy.  I live in Fairfax county.

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OK weevee66.  You wanna fish for trout and smallmouth or are shad, carp, largemouth, catfish and other trash fish your main quarry?  When were you born and what is your real name?  Many of us posted brief Bios awhile back. Care to do the same?  Send me a private e-mail with a detailed listing of all your best secret fishing holes and we will talk.  I’m just outside of Fredericksburg. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for a fresh water fly fishing buddy.  I live in Fairfax county.

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Question:

Ernie, I think you forgot the most important thing! The FLIES!! Or do you plan on catching your own while fishing? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Over the years I have learned there are several things in addition to flies I want in my vest .  If you are new to fly-fishing you can look them over for suggestions, or you may want to suggest things you don’t find on mine. 1.      Crusher type water resistant hat. 2.      Duct tape for patching waders 3.      Fly Floatant. 4.      Fly line cleaner 5.      Forceps. 6.      Hook sharpener. 7.      Knot tier (Blood Knot Machine). 8.      Leader straightener. 9.      Leaders. 10.     Mosquito repellant 11.     Polarized glasses 12.     Sinkers (wrap on) 13.     Small 110 camera. 14.     Small first aid kit. (with aspirin) 15.     Small flashlight. 16.     Spool of tippet material. 17.     Stream thermometer 18.     Strike indicators 19.     Swiss pocket knife with scissors. 20.     Tippet cutter with hook eye cleaner. 21.     Toilet paper. 22.     Waterproof pancho (lightweight).

– Doug Knight                                     metalfab<atpacbell.net Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

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Over the years I have learned there are several things in addition to flies I want in my vest .  If you are new to fly-fishing you can look them over for suggestions, or you may want to suggest things you don’t find on mine.

                        EDITED VEST ITEMS BY A PRO! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1.      Crusher type water resistant hat. (Wide Brimmed Western Hat) 3.      Fly Floatant.    Gehrke’s Gink 4.      Fly line cleaner    Gehrke’s PZ Fly Line Cleaner 5.      Forceps.    Not needed with Barbless Hooks 6.      Hook sharpener. 8.      Leader straightener.  (PULL HARD then relax slowly) 9.      Leaders.    Hand tied of course. 10.     Mosquito repellant  (Famous Grouse) 11.     Polarized glasses    (Blue and Yellow) 12.     Sinkers (wrap on)    Gehrke’s XINK Wet Fly Dressing 13.     Small 110 camera.    Water Proof 14.     Small first aid kit. (with aspirin)  and a flask of booze 15.     Small flashlight.    (Water Proof) 16.     Spool of tippet material.  (Make this plural) 17.     Stream thermometer    (Only if you have a diary) 18.     Strike indicators    argggggggggggggggggggggggggh! 19.     Swiss pocket knife with scissors. 20.     Tippet cutter with hook eye cleaner. 21.     Toilet paper.        (Inside a Zip Lock Bag) 22.     Waterproof pancho (lightweight).

    23  A Box of Dry Flies     24  A box of Wet Flies     25  A box of Nymphs     26  A box of Streamers     27  A bottle of KNOT-PERFECT — Doug Knight                                     metalfab<atpacbell.net Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

– George Gehrke All Writings

Question:

Does anyone have information about fishing in Huatulco/Puerto Escondido, Mexico area? I am planning a trip for mid august, but the only problem is, with less then a month left, I still have no idea what to expect. I will only be able to bring a 7/8 weight, and I will probably fish the bays in Huatulco and Puerto Angel….any other hot spots in the area???? I need to know what kind of fish are availible to me, and of course what flies (specific patterns?) or type of flies (shrimp? baitfish?) and what sizes i should tie them in….also handy would be possibly guide recommendations and leader strengths? Actually, any information at all would be great! I just need all the help I can get! Anyway, if you have any ideas, please either email me OR reply to this message!                                 Thanks in advance,                                 Scott

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have information about fishing in Huatulco/Puerto Escondido, Mexico area? I am planning a trip for mid august, but the only problem is, with less then a month left, I still have no idea what to expect. I will only be able to bring a 7/8 weight, and I will probably fish the bays in Huatulco and Puerto Angel….any other hot spots in the area???? I need to know what kind of fish are availible to me, and of course what flies (specific patterns?) or type of flies (shrimp? baitfish?) and what sizes i should tie them in….also handy would be possibly guide recommendations and leader strengths? Actually, any information at all would be great! I just need all the help I can get! Anyway, if you have any ideas, please either email me OR reply to this message!                                Thanks in advance,                                Scott

You can find some information about fishing in Huatulco and Puerto Angel on my web page.  You can start with http://www.eden.com/~tomzap/hfishing.html Tom Penick             Web page:             Austin, Texas            http://www.eden.com/~tomzap

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Question:

I am planning a trip to New England in April or May and would like to do some fly fishing. Can someone please answer the following: – how much does a non-resident license cost and can you get a short term one? – when does trout season open in Maine? – when does bass season open? – how about some good locations for bass and trout? I’ve never fished in New England before. I’d rather stay away from the famous rivers like the Battenkill, etc. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Sandy

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I am planning a trip to New England in April or May and would like to do some fly fishing. Can someone please answer the following: – how much does a non-resident license cost and can you get a short term one?

        This summer a 7-day out-of-state was $34+1 and could be picked up at many shops. – when does trout season open in Maine? – when does bass season open?

        Their regs are online.  Sorry I don’t have the URL handy.   _Rich_

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Question:

Can anyone recommend any particular guides in the Catskill areas who provide good value for money. I am interested in fishing the Delaware in September and have heard stories about avoiding guides that take their own rods etc. The price is not important as long as the guide knows his stuff.I have fished and hunted with Bill Frazier, Upper Delaware Outfitters,

Hankins, New York, for years.  I’ve found him to be capable, courteous, knowledgeable and incredibly fairly priced.  He will provide you with a float trip or guide you to fly-fishing wading spots on the Delaware River(including the East and West Branches)or pretty much any Catskill stream in which you may be interested.  He has never brought his own rod with him, although we have frequently invited him to fish along with us. A real gentleman!  His phone number is 914-887-4853.  You’d better call soon as he books up for the season real early.  Good luck and tell him I sent you (Stan Kid).

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Can anyone recommend any particular guides in the Catskill areas who provide good value for money. I am interested in fishing the Delaware in September and have heard stories about avoiding guides that take their own rods etc. The price is not important as long as the guide knows his stuff.

I highly recommend Jimmy, a guide who works out of Al Caucci’s Delaware River Club on the West Branch of the Delaware.  He brings his own rods, but only for you to use.  Knows the river quite well and put us onto fish we otherwise would have missed. I don’t recommend staying at DRC, however. It’s overpriced, undermaintained and they greatly exaggerate the amount of "private" access they have.

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Can anyone recommend any particular guides in the Catskill areas who provide good value for money. I am interested in fishing the Delaware in September and have heard stories about avoiding guides that take their own rods etc. The price is not important as long as the guide knows his stuff.

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Question:

Does anyone know of any fishing news groups?  I am especially interested in Flyfishing. Thanks. Randy

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Does anyone know of any fishing news groups?  I am especially interested in Flyfishing. Thanks. Randy

I don’t but email: for any fishing info you’d like. Leo UCD – Engineering                                   (303) 556-2356 "I’m only responsible for what’s not working right now." DoD# 0874

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Does anyone know of any fishing news groups?  I am especially interested in Flyfishing.

try rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Tim —

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Question:

I am going to Cozumel, Mexico at the end of January and would like to find a guide or advice on where to fish there. I do not scuba dive. I would like to wade fish for bonefish if there are fishable flats. Anyone know a relable guide? Do I need a license in advance? Any other advice would be great… Thanks, Bill Schrader Baylor College of Medicine, Houston TX

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| I am going to Cozumel, Mexico at the end of January and would like to find | a guide or advice on where to fish there. I do not scuba dive. | | I would like to wade fish for bonefish if there are fishable flats. | | Anyone know a relable guide? | | Do I need a license in advance? | | Any other advice would be great… | | Thanks, | Bill Schrader | Baylor College of Medicine, Houston TX |         Haven’t been to Cozumel in a few years, but here are a couple of insights. When I was there shore fishing was permitted on the north side of the island, but much of the south side was a marine sanctuary. Anyways, from shore I found the best fishing to happen at night from the ‘Cabanas del Caribe’ (which may or may not still exist) north.I was using a fly rod and a white 1/0 deceiver, and had a blast with baby tarpon and horse eyed jacks (they’ll pull your arm off!) I saw some snappers further north, but didn’t have my rod at the time. I saw one bonefish, which I spooked, at the northernmost point of the beach, where everything turns to jungle. There are supposedly flats on either end of the island. The book "Fishing Atlas of the World" a big coffee table type book has some details on finding these flats as I recall. You are supposed to have a fishing license, which I believe is free for shore fishing, but I never could find the oficina de pesca and nobody gave me any trouble about it. The boat fishing is supposed to be great, but I didn’t try it. Oh, I was there in mid march. Not sure what January will bring, but it will definitely be better than the -10F I got up to this morning :-                                         john cloyd

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