Question:

No barbecue but we did end up with hamburgers at the beach grill.  I met up with Jon Cook on Monday to fish some of the surf near Los Angeles International Airport.  We jawed about some of our Great Lakes fishing memories and about life in academia.  When we got to the beach we saw a couple of corbina in skinny water.  It was low tide and the water was coming in.  We spotted some nice looking depressions in the sand.  If there were fish in this area they would soon be occupying those holes once the water filled in.  Jon got a look at some corbina and asked about them. I said I’d consider it a lucky day if we hooked into one.  Well, the fish were not there.  As the tide came in the corbina became more scarce.  My friend Jimmy tagged along with us and he did manage to catch a corbina. So maybe it was a lucky day after all.  All of us had a couple of strikes but failed to capitalize on the few opportunities.  Did end up with three perch landed between the three of us though.  The sea is a harsh mistress as they say.  Glad I did meet Jon though.  He says he will definitely go to the, as yet unplanned, next San Juan Clave.  Meet a ROFFian, meet a friend. Mu

Response:

Mu, you may have missed it on ROFF, but we noted your appearance in the SW Flyfishing article.  A very good article, btw. Glad I did meet Jon though.  He says he will definitely go to the, as yet unplanned, next San Juan Clave.  Meet a ROFFian, meet a friend.

Jon’s pretty slick at the San Juan.  We’ll have to do it again and get Jon to pick the days (early 2003 please).  We’ll hope for more willing next year although it’s always fun. bruce h

Response:

Glad I did meet Jon though.  He says he will definitely go to the, as yet unplanned, next San Juan Clave.  Meet a ROFFian, meet a friend.

I missed Jon at the Juan last year. Willi

Response:

Glad I did meet Jon though.  He says he will definitely go to the, as yet unplanned, next San Juan Clave.  Meet a ROFFian, meet a friend. I missed Jon at the Juan last year.

Awww, comon mon! It was a no-John Juan? rivermon

Response:

Awww, comon mon! It was a no-John Juan? rivermon

So… it was a sans Juan? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

Mu, you may have missed it on ROFF, but we noted your appearance in the SW Flyfishing article.  A very good article, btw.

Just re-read that article.  Bill wrote it about a year ago.  Reminded me of a whole bunch of little tactics that I have forgotten about.  Back when I was catching fewer fish I figured there were just very few fish around and that’s why I wasn’t catching them.  So I spent more time concentrating on casting technique and doing little things to maximize my success rate on the water.  Since then I’ve gotten a little lazy (mentally) and figure if I keep casting and covering lots of territory I will eventually hook up. Mu

Response:

  Since then I’ve gotten a little lazy (mentally) and figure if I keep casting and covering lots of territory I will eventually hook up.

My guess is that you now catch many more fish. That technique works. Willi

Response:

Question:

We would like to go back to Cozumel for scuba next summer but this time go in our own plane.  With all the red tape that is expected, I guess I should start now.  I understand that an experimental has to get Mexican gov’t approval, but am not sure how to go about that. Also, to go from north Alabama to Cozumel, as much as I dislike overwater flying, is it more risky to take the long way around, via the entire country of Mexico’s land mass?  What do you guys recommend? Thanks, AI Nut

Response:

I have flown down to Honduras twice from Texas.  Flying down the gulf coast of Mexico is easy with excellent airports and very pleasant airport personnel.  Enter at Brownsville and land as needed at Tampico, Veracruz, Villahermosa, Carmen. Cross the base of the Isthmus from Carmen to Chetumal and fly north to Cozumel.  Get the latest info packet from AOPA. The reason to cross the isthmus from Carmen to Chetumal is to follow the road rather than cross uninhabited, trackless jungle. — Richard TEXAS is not just a place, TEXAS  is a state of mind.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We would like to go back to Cozumel for scuba next summer but this time go in our own plane.  With all the red tape that is expected, I guess I should start now.  I understand that an experimental has to get Mexican gov’t approval, but am not sure how to go about that. Also, to go from north Alabama to Cozumel, as much as I dislike overwater flying, is it more risky to take the long way around, via the entire country of Mexico’s land mass?  What do you guys recommend? Thanks, AI Nut

Response:

Take a look at bajabushpilots.com  Geared more to California pilots flying down to Baja, but the answer re experimentals will be known. Re crossing over the Gulf from Alabama, you can manage the risk by having a raft and a 406 epirb and a person back home who will report you missing if you do not call them a certain time after departure.  Do you fly at night, over mountains, or in low IFR in a single?  These are similar, maybe even greater, risks.  Your chances are really bad in these situations if the engine quits.  At least with a ditching you are OK if someone will come get you and you can stay alive until then.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We would like to go back to Cozumel for scuba next summer but this time go in our own plane.  With all the red tape that is expected, I guess I should start now.  I understand that an experimental has to get Mexican gov’t approval, but am not sure how to go about that. Also, to go from north Alabama to Cozumel, as much as I dislike overwater flying, is it more risky to take the long way around, via the entire country of Mexico’s land mass?  What do you guys recommend? Thanks, AI Nut

Response:

Cash only, preferrably Mexican Pesos.  Strainer cloth and a Mexican mecahnic is required for any repairs.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We would like to go back to Cozumel for scuba next summer but this time go in our own plane.  With all the red tape that is expected, I guess I should start now.  I understand that an experimental has to get Mexican gov’t approval, but am not sure how to go about that. Also, to go from north Alabama to Cozumel, as much as I dislike overwater flying, is it more risky to take the long way around, via the entire country of Mexico’s land mass?  What do you guys recommend? Thanks, AI Nut

Response:

You can’t do repairs on your own aircraft????  Thats scary!  Might want to take some vasoline too!  Whats a strainer cloth? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cash only, preferrably Mexican Pesos.  Strainer cloth and a Mexican mecahnic is required for any repairs. We would like to go back to Cozumel for scuba next summer but this time go in our own plane.  With all the red tape that is expected, I guess I should start now.  I understand that an experimental has to get Mexican gov’t approval, but am not sure how to go about that. Also, to go from north Alabama to Cozumel, as much as I dislike overwater flying, is it more risky to take the long way around, via the entire country of Mexico’s land mass?  What do you guys recommend? Thanks, AI Nut

Response:

You can do the repairs, but a mexican mechanic has to supervise the repair. Some people use a chamios to strain the fuel.  Probably not necessary at major airports, but if you are burning car gas or at a remote airport it is a cheap precaution.

You can’t do repairs on your own aircraft????  Thats scary!  Might want to take some vasoline too!  Whats a strainer cloth?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cash only, preferrably Mexican Pesos.  Strainer cloth and a Mexican mecahnic is required for any repairs. We would like to go back to Cozumel for scuba next summer but this time go in our own plane.  With all the red tape that is expected, I guess I should start now.  I understand that an experimental has to get Mexican gov’t approval, but am not sure how to go about that. Also, to go from north Alabama to Cozumel, as much as I dislike overwater flying, is it more risky to take the long way around, via the entire country of Mexico’s land mass?  What do you guys recommend? Thanks, AI Nut

Response:

Take a look at bajabushpilots.com  Geared more to California pilots flying down to Baja, but the answer re experimentals will be known. Re crossing over the Gulf from Alabama, you can manage the risk by having a raft and a 406 epirb and a person back home who will report you missing if you do not call them a certain time after departure.  Do you fly at night, over mountains, or in low IFR in a single?  These are similar, maybe even greater, risks.  Your chances are really bad in these situations if the engine quits.  At least with a ditching you are OK if someone will come get you and you can stay alive until then.

Yeah, and not usually much problem with hypothermia in the Gulf Cheers, John PPASEL Temple, Texas

Response:

Before I started flying 10 years ago (and have made two trips through Mexico by plane) I lived aboard yachts for 23 years.  This included a great many crossings of the Gulf of Mexico in sail yachts, power yachts and commercial fishing vessels and oilfield service vessels..  Having been over 100,000 miles on the ocean in boats, I personally think that long passages over water in single engine planes are totally nuts.  It is often very rough down there and in those conditions, a ditching would not likely go very well.  It is also fairly unlikely that you will be found before it is too late.  What looks like calm water and short distances from a plane looks very very different from the surface.  I personally think that the risk is totally unacceptable in a single and would not do it in a twin, if the plane could not complete the trip from the 1/2 way point on one engine. On the other hand the trip around the edge with stops in nice Mexican cities and airports is a lot of fun.  The fuel is very very clean and the service is polite and excellent. No sweat. — Richard TEXAS is not just a place, TEXAS  is a state of mind.

Take a look at bajabushpilots.com  Geared more to

California pilots flying down to Baja, but the answer re experimentals will be known. Re crossing over the Gulf from Alabama, you can manage the risk by having a raft and a 406 epirb and a person back home who will

report you missing if – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you do not call them a certain time after departure.  Do you fly at night, over mountains, or in low IFR in a single?  These are similar, maybe even greater, risks.  Your chances are really bad in these situations if the engine quits.  At least with a ditching you are OK if someone will come get you and you can stay alive until then. Yeah, and not usually much problem with hypothermia in the Gulf Cheers, John PPASEL Temple, Texas

Response:

100,000 miles on the ocean in boats, I personally think that long passages over water in single engine planes are totally nuts.  It is often very rough down there and in those conditions, a ditching would not likely go very well.  It is also fairly unlikely that you will be found before it is too late

You may know sailing, but you don’t know ditching. Ditching is not risk-free but can be accomplished without harm more often than not. Down home, many of us have ditched. Only one lost his life. He was drowned by a panicked passenger. D.

Response:

How high were the seas when you ditched.  How far from shore?  How long till rescue.  From Alabama to Yucatan is 600 or 700 NM. I have a friend who has ditched twice, right next to shore. The middle of the Gulf is a whole nother animal.  Of course, If you trust your machine that much, have at it. I have noticed something interesting.  I know quite a few instructors and pilots who love night flying and some who do some pretty serious IFR in singles.  Funny, that all of the mechanics that I know well who are also very experienced pilots, avoid night flight and heavy IFR in singles.  I am a pretty competent mechanic, but not an A&P and there is no way that I am flying under those conditions.  Of course two partial power losses in 1200 hours might have something to do with that. The sea is big and your life raft is ridiculously small.  If you ditch successfully, and if you get out and get in the raft, and if you still have the epirb (406 or not) and if you are detected, you might be found and they might even be able to rescue you.  That is a hell of a lot of ifs, for an unnecessary risk. — Richard TEXAS is not just a place, TEXAS  is a state of mind. message .net… 100,000 miles on the ocean in boats, I personally think that long passages over water in single engine planes are totally nuts.  It is often very rough down there and in those conditions, a ditching would not likely go very well. It is also fairly unlikely that you will be found before it is too late You may know sailing, but you don’t know ditching.

Ditching is not risk-free – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – but can be accomplished without harm more often than not. Down home, many of us have ditched. Only one lost his life. He was drowned by a panicked passenger. D.

Response:

Question:

I’m not always sour. Just spewing up some vomit. It will pass.

I know you are not souring, and it is good to spew.  I can’t believe what you have been through. (((((Hugs)))))) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Just a big ol’ kidney stone, yeah, you’ll be rid of it. OK. I had a big dry. Geez! Thought I was done with that stuff. I spent a lot of energy being *close* to my kids – moved right within short mortar range of where their mom is living. With all that, I can not even be sure I am doing the right thing – the "confict is bad" crowd would say that since the kids’ mom and I hate each other, I should pack up my troubles, move a thousand miles away and just send a check every week. Maybe they are right, but it is not the path I have chosen, and the path I have chosen is hard, sucks and is exhausting. And I am not even sure if it is the right thing. I understand. At the time of the moving decision, I thought that the only way she could come down from her insanity was to distance myself. I under-estimated insanity. You make your choices, live with them, and live with yourself. What else are you going to do? Just know what your choices are. Make those choices informed, and get on with your life. Else you’ll end up a tired old, shrivelled up cynical fart like me. pffffoooooot!!!! Thoughts with you Roy. Give your better half a big hug, and fall asleep in each others’ arms tonight. Have you ever noticed that two people in bed only need 3 arms? Indeed, one arm is always in the way.

Here are two more arms to crowd the situation. There is only so much you can do, and the kids’ mom is the kids’ mom. She is their problem, unfortunately. They’ll survive. I can’t protect them from the world. Much as I want to. The younger one will be taught to hate me. See responses eslewhere in this thread as to why. Peace, brother. Best – Fido (Soy un perro, pero ella es una hembra!) Did you ever try "tacos de macho"?

I

Response:

 The younger one will, as usual, not want to talk to me. Been there, done that. I just kept calling at the right time, and they will talk if they want to. Later my oldest daughter would surprise me by calling on her own. You are there with them, Roy, believe it.

Yep. As far as Doc’s statements, not all are bitches, The sterile ones can be trusted, if they have a note from their doc. Otherwise, trust your own doc to take care of you. Very cynical. Ouchies. But realistic, I suppose.

Getting such things in writing strikes me as properly responsible. I am sad that you have one in your life. Actually, I have another in my life who is quite wonderful.  Whatcha kevtchin’ about, then?  Hey, a lot of folks don’t even have *that*.

Yeah, but it don’t fix the hole in the heart, does it ? Don’t go sour, have faith. I’m not always sour. Just spewing up some vomit. It will pass. Just a big ol’ kidney stone, yeah, you’ll be rid of it.

Indeed. I spent a lot of energy being *close* to my kids – moved right within short mortar range of where their mom is living. With all that, I can not even be sure I am doing the right thing – the "confict is bad" crowd would say that since the kids’ mom and I hate each other, I should pack up my troubles, move a thousand miles away and just send a check every week. Maybe they are right, but it is not the path I have chosen, and the path I have chosen is hard, sucks and is exhausting. And I am not even sure if it is the right thing.

Well, I am. It is. You are the *father* of the kids. That is important, no matter what the granola crowd bleats. It’s tough. But, you are there for your kids, and they do see that. They will understand what that means. You make your choices, live with them, and live with yourself. What else are you going to do? Just know what your choices are. Make those choices informed, and get on with your life. Else you’ll end up a tired old, shrivelled up cynical fart like me.

<g Thoughts with you Roy. Give your better half a big hug, and fall asleep in each others’ arms tonight. There is only so much you can do, and the kids’ mom is the kids’ mom. She is their problem, unfortunately.

Truth. Peace, brother. Best – Fido (Soy un perro, pero ella es una hembra!) Roy

Andre — " The noblest achievement of the imagination is to make time run some other way, and terminate in beauty and forgivness "                                          David Gelernter, " 1939 "

Response:

Let’s see. I’m sure I left something out. …. Starting Spring Break, the ex starting coaching the girl to say that I am poking her ass while wiping her bottom. I pointed out that I do not handle potty. So, by summer she wants to know why my gf is poking the daughter’s ass. Except that the girl wipes herself.

Response:

so, yeah, Dr Web can rant and rave all he friggin wants. I, for one, will not criticize him. Sometimes there is just more than a grain of truth in the rantings of the mad.

Response:

Hi Roy, so, when some woman posts and say she want ex s2bx to move. Or she plans to leave and take the kids, or, when the guy posts and says he has been asked to leave, I know exactly what is going on. Child abuse, kidnapping, extortion. "I am responsible for my own happiness." – sheesh! new age pop crap!

Not all is fair, and even in general when one speaks of being responsible for your own happiness etc. , I don’t believe they don’t mean that there aren’t very negative forces that are in play. As far as a kind word….my heart is with you and hope that you can be comfortable and proud about yourself and your attempts to be a part of your childrens life. As far as Doc’s statements, not all are bitches, I am sad that you have one in your life.  Don’t go sour, have faith. Glos

Response:

As far as a kind word….my heart is with you and hope that you can be comfortable and proud about yourself and your attempts to be a part of your childrens life.

I appreciate the kind words. Guess it’s time to make my weekly call to the kids. The younger one will, as usual, not wantto talk to me. As far as Doc’s statements, not all are bitches,

The sterile ones can be trusted, if they have a note from their doc. Otherwise, trust your own doc to take care of you. I am sad that you have one in your life.

Actually, I have another in my life who is quite wonderful. Don’t go sour, have faith.

I’m not always sour. Just spewing up some vomit. It will pass. Glos

Roy

Response:

Anytime Roy, you know that!!  ((Hugs)) Daisy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – for me to ask for a kind word. Roy

Response:

for me to ask for a kind word.

You and your kids don’t deserve what she’s doing to you, and if you’d just open up and tell us the details, like her name, city, and address, we’d send out a posse to kick her witchy little ass. —– Kathryn Litherland                 | People make their own history               Latin American Studies Program     | but they do not make it under       University of Illinois, Chicago    | circumstances of their own choosing                                    |      –Karl Marx, _The 18th Brumaire_

Response:

for me to ask for a kind word. Roy

XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO I am sorry she is being a bitch about you seeing the kids.  I could make a voodoo doll with her name on it? Loev, Poopie Pants PS I hope there is a Karma Fairy and your ex gets her just reward

Response:

 The younger one will, as usual, not want to talk to me.

Been there, done that. I just kept calling at the right time, and they will talk if they want to. Later my oldest daughter would surprise me by calling on her own. You are there with them, Roy, believe it. As far as Doc’s statements, not all are bitches, The sterile ones can be trusted, if they have a note from their doc. Otherwise, trust your own doc to take care of you.

Very cynical. Ouchies. But realistic, I suppose. I am sad that you have one in your life. Actually, I have another in my life who is quite wonderful.

 Whatcha kevtchin’ about, then?  Hey, a lot of folks don’t even have *that*. Don’t go sour, have faith. I’m not always sour. Just spewing up some vomit. It will pass.

Just a big ol’ kidney stone, yeah, you’ll be rid of it. I spent a lot of energy being *close* to my kids – moved right within short mortar range of where their mom is living. With all that, I can not even be sure I am doing the right thing – the "confict is bad" crowd would say that since the kids’ mom and I hate each other, I should pack up my troubles, move a thousand miles away and just send a check every week. Maybe they are right, but it is not the path I have chosen, and the path I have chosen is hard, sucks and is exhausting. And I am not even sure if it is the right thing. You make your choices, live with them, and live with yourself. What else are you going to do? Just know what your choices are. Make those choices informed, and get on with your life. Else you’ll end up a tired old, shrivelled up cynical fart like me. Thoughts with you Roy. Give your better half a big hug, and fall asleep in each others’ arms tonight. There is only so much you can do, and the kids’ mom is the kids’ mom. She is their problem, unfortunately. Peace, brother. Best – Fido (Soy un perro, pero ella es una hembra!) Roy

Before you buy.

Response:

"may 99 – now-ex threatens to kill kids." ummm… Roy…does the court know about this??? Donna Before you buy.

Response:

I could make a voodoo doll with her name on it?

No need, Poopster. http://www.virtual-design.com/cgi-bin/Voodoo.pl Have fun! Belle

Response:

"may 99 – now-ex threatens to kill kids." ummm… Roy…does the court know about this???

Fucking court. Someone ought to mail a copy of Roy’s post to the Supreme Court Justice in Georgia or where ever that case was heard. Like they’ll do anything about it, anyway, Scumbags. What outrage I feel. Send a copy to the nitwits at the National Conference of Family Court Justices, too, those morons. No effing recourse when your family is torn apart by these weenies. They could fix it if they wanted to, *but they don’t*. Fuck ‘em. I’m going to bed. Roy, lighten up. I’ll be mad for both of us.   Donna Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

"may 99 – now-ex threatens to kill kids." ummm… Roy…does the court know about this??? Donna

Yes. Didn’t matter. I moved out – four blocks away. I smoked pot. I went and got a girlfriend. The court did not give me time to say "I was in the home all day, every day. I handled 1st grade home school." Your call. What would judge Judy do?

Response:

I’m not always sour. Just spewing up some vomit. It will pass. Just a big ol’ kidney stone, yeah, you’ll be rid of it.

OK. I had a big dry. Geez! Thought I was done with that stuff. I spent a lot of energy being *close* to my kids – moved right within short mortar range of where their mom is living. With all that, I can not even be sure I am doing the right thing – the "confict is bad" crowd would say that since the kids’ mom and I hate each other, I should pack up my troubles, move a thousand miles away and just send a check every week. Maybe they are right, but it is not the path I have chosen, and the path I have chosen is hard, sucks and is exhausting. And I am not even sure if it is the right thing.

I understand. At the time of the moving decision, I thought that the only way she could come down from her insanity was to distance myself. I under-estimated insanity. You make your choices, live with them, and live with yourself. What else are you going to do? Just know what your choices are. Make those choices informed, and get on with your life. Else you’ll end up a tired old, shrivelled up cynical fart like me.

pffffoooooot!!!! Thoughts with you Roy. Give your better half a big hug, and fall asleep in each others’ arms tonight.

Have you ever noticed that two people in bed only need 3 arms? Indeed, one arm is always in the way. There is only so much you can do, and the kids’ mom is the kids’ mom. She is their problem, unfortunately.

They’ll survive. I can’t protect them from the world. Much as I want to. The younger one will be taught to hate me. See responses eslewhere in this thread as to why. Peace, brother. Best – Fido (Soy un perro, pero ella es una hembra!)

Did you ever try "tacos de macho"?

Response:

Roy, you’re a helluva guy. And I like you, too.

Yeah. I know. My step-dad even told me so just before he died. My gf from 27 years ago remembered me and gave up one hell of a lot because she also remembered that I am a nice guy. I keep forgetting.

Response:

for me to ask for a kind word. You and your kids don’t deserve what she’s doing to you, and if you’d just open up and tell us the details, like her name, city, and address, we’d send out a posse to kick her witchy little ass.

Tempting. I do believe that abusive people need to have their behavior "outed". Just can’t bring myself to send her a letter outlining her behavior in this matter – with cc to every family member.

Response:

XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO I am sorry she is being a bitch about you seeing the kids.  I could make a voodoo doll with her name on it?

The current fashion is "cultural competence". So, I was thinking about something from the dungeons of Spain, circa 1520. PS I hope there is a Karma Fairy and your ex gets her just reward

Nope. No magical retribution. Well, maybe … I do know that she is angry because she lost a truly marvelous f**k and she burns every nite for that. I can see how she looks me over in our brief child-exchange encounters.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – for me to ask for a kind word. What’s troubling you ? Maybe we can help. Everyone can use a kind word. So, talk, and we’ll listen. Is that a start ? Roy Andre 2 kids now ages 4 and 11 may 98 – moved to apt 4 blocks away. may-dec – almost no contact with kids – a couple of movies with the older kid, some one-on-one soccer at the high school dec 98 – signed visitation agreement, property partition, and all other terms with now-ex xmas holidays 98 – now-ex wants to take the kids to see her parents. I say OK. She doesn’t go, but wipes out my visit time. Xmas eve 98 – now-ex tells kids I am coming over. Does not tell me. jan 99 – now-ex tears up all agreements. gets lawyer. jan-may 99 – regular visits established – ex comes up with something to interfere, so that there is no continuous 24 hour visit spring break 99 – now-ex pull same stunt as xmas holidays 98 may 99 – now-ex threatens to kill kids. memorial weekend 99 – The kid and I "break the rules" and go for a weekend of fishing at the coast. I inform the now-ex by phone. I hang up as she screams and cries. june 99 – court date. "At last .. some legal protection." Wrong! My first testimony was to ask for verification of 4 week summer visit. Judge reduces to 2 weeks. I say "but your honor …" Judge reduces to 5 days and only with older kid. End of hearing. july 99 – I move 3 states away. Take the older kid for 5 days. fly back for 3-day visits in sept and oct 99 Tgiving 99 – kids visit for 1 week. My best friend (illegal from Mexico) give me overnite place to stay and helps with pick-up and airport delivery. Later that day his wife is repeatedly called by now-ex and threatened with legal action. Xmas 99 – one week with kids. Xmas 99 – I begin asking for copies of immunization info. Mar 99 – administrative hearing to file final papers. My lawyer says my presence not needed. Now-ex appears – All rights to participate in decisions on education, medical, etc are cross out in the decree – probably because I smoked pot. Also, she can give me 30 days notice before visit and I have to be tested. Spring break 00 – one week with kids Summer 00 – after several requests to ex and school, still no immunization info. Ex demands to come here and keep kids 3 days/wk during summer visit. 8/1/00 Letter to ex. I will be in town sometime next month on business, but don’t know exact days. Can I visit for weekend without meeting 30 day notice requirements. Also, school does not get out until tues before Xmas. This reduces xmas visit to 6 days. Can they stay for entire holidays? 9/1/00 After no response, I call. She says not to tell kids that I asked to visit in the fall. Says they can stay longer at xmas but she keeps them 3-4 days/wk 9/5/00 f**k her. I make the airline reservations – no she does not come. So, andre, I’m tired. The woman needs one good royal f**king. Any guy here want to help me out?

Well, not in *that* way. I had quite enough of that with my ex, and I am aware that I got off ( relatively ) lightly, as we didn’t make any kids. I shudder when I think of having to be tied to that *itch for the next eighteen years plus, especially in the way that the courts screw fathers. Unfortunately, I have no good ideas as to what you can do. Aside from what I occasionally hear here about finding a father’s rights friendly lawyer, and doing all that one can with the help of such a lawyer to get back was was stolen. At what ages can they state that they might want to be more with you ? I do know that one is likely a decade from this. But, the other may be within a year to three. Does it help in any way that I state that her behavior is pure EVIL, both to you and to the kids ? Someone posted a good article about modern fatherhood here, in the last day or two. It was written by Cathy Young, whose book I own. God, this is surely a time when I wish that I had some power, some ability to affect matters in such a way that you and your kids could have the relationship that you are working so hard to make. No matter what, do take good and proper care of yourself, and do what you can do, in order to relieve some of the fatigue. Folks, try to tell me that a court would do that to a mom. It’s not equal out there, and some of you ladies might find that this is a good reason why some of your men won’t commit to a new relationship. What can you ladies do about that ? Organise, and lend the fathers the support that you got from all the men who marched to get women their rights. You owe them, and you owe the kids. Do it. Now. Andre — " The noblest achievement of the imagination is to make time run some other way, and terminate in beauty and forgivness "                                          David Gelernter, " 1939 "

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for me to ask for a kind word.

Roy, you’re a helluva guy. And I like you, too. Best – Fido Roy

Before you buy.

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so, when some woman posts and say she want ex s2bx to move. Or she plans to leave and take the kids, or, when the guy posts and says he has been asked to leave, I know exactly what is going on. Child abuse, kidnapping, extortion. "I am responsible for my own happiness." – sheesh! new age pop crap!

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for me to ask for a kind word. Roy

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for me to ask for a kind word. Roy

Brenda Before you buy.

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for me to ask for a kind word.

What’s troubling you ? Maybe we can help. Everyone can use a kind word. So, talk, and we’ll listen. Is that a start ? Roy

Andre — " The noblest achievement of the imagination is to make time run some other way, and terminate in beauty and forgivness "                                          David Gelernter, " 1939 "

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for me to ask for a kind word. What’s troubling you ? Maybe we can help. Everyone can use a kind word. So, talk, and we’ll listen. Is that a start ? Roy Andre

2 kids now ages 4 and 11 may 98 – moved to apt 4 blocks away. may-dec – almost no contact with kids – a couple of movies with the older kid, some one-on-one soccer at the high school dec 98 – signed visitation agreement, property partition, and all other terms with now-ex xmas holidays 98 – now-ex wants to take the kids to see her parents. I say OK. She doesn’t go, but wipes out my visit time. Xmas eve 98 – now-ex tells kids I am coming over. Does not tell me. jan 99 – now-ex tears up all agreements. gets lawyer. jan-may 99 – regular visits established – ex comes up with something to interfere, so that there is no continuous 24 hour visit spring break 99 – now-ex pull same stunt as xmas holidays 98 may 99 – now-ex threatens to kill kids. memorial weekend 99 – The kid and I "break the rules" and go for a weekend of fishing at the coast. I inform the now-ex by phone. I hang up as she screams and cries. june 99 – court date. "At last .. some legal protection." Wrong! My first testimony was to ask for verification of 4 week summer visit. Judge reduces to 2 weeks. I say "but your honor …" Judge reduces to 5 days and only with older kid. End of hearing. july 99 – I move 3 states away. Take the older kid for 5 days. fly back for 3-day visits in sept and oct 99 Tgiving 99 – kids visit for 1 week. My best friend (illegal from Mexico) give me overnite place to stay and helps with pick-up and airport delivery. Later that day his wife is repeatedly called by now-ex and threatened with legal action. Xmas 99 – one week with kids. Xmas 99 – I begin asking for copies of immunization info. Mar 99 – administrative hearing to file final papers. My lawyer says my presence not needed. Now-ex appears – All rights to participate in decisions on education, medical, etc are cross out in the decree – probably because I smoked pot. Also, she can give me 30 days notice before visit and I have to be tested. Spring break 00 – one week with kids Summer 00 – after several requests to ex and school, still no immunization info. Ex demands to come here and keep kids 3 days/wk during summer visit. 8/1/00 Letter to ex. I will be in town sometime next month on business, but don’t know exact days. Can I visit for weekend without meeting 30 day notice requirements. Also, school does not get out until tues before Xmas. This reduces xmas visit to 6 days. Can they stay for entire holidays? 9/1/00 After no response, I call. She says not to tell kids that I asked to visit in the fall. Says they can stay longer at xmas but she keeps them 3-4 days/wk 9/5/00 f**k her. I make the airline reservations – no she does not come. So, andre, I’m tired. The woman needs one good royal f**king. Any guy here want to help me out?

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Question:

Cheers G. (as I tip my ale). Natty

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It was a long trip home but the beautiful Piper Comanche put her nose into the wind and plowed ahead hour after hour, riding like a wild bronc over Butte Pass just west of Livingston Montana known for its rip-tide winds and rollers.  She bore down and crossed the main fury at 10,500 going west bound, settled down and then headed for the Anaconda-Pintler Wilderness mountains, along the central edge for refuge which was not to be.  I stretch out my left leg for relief and the new scars stretched in refrain.  My right leg was stretched all the way into the co-pilot side and the hours passed by, one by one. During those hours, high above my beautiful ragged Rockies I thought of the well wishers in Roff and the prayers that went with me and I can say to all, they were well answered.  I was coming home. The fuel and strong head winds were not going to allow Miss Blue to make it across the mighty Selway Wilderness, and so like a leaf from an oak the throttle was brought back, flaps lowered full bore and she came down like a rocket.  Naturally, the wind was out of the west and the Hamilton Airport runs north south for perfect cross-wind landing conditions. Lined up on a three mile final to runway 160 so as to get a feel for how much crab she was going to take and how much rudder, it was evident the right wing would be very low.  I kissed her down on the right gear which rode out the vicious cross-wind for over a thousand feet before Miss Blu found her footing and two wheels.  To get the weight on both gear a.s.a.p. I lifted the flaps and that planted her onto the runway with confidence.  So far, so good. Once again in the air and flying for over 10 hours, the remote callings of the Selway slid under my wings.  Gladys was snoozing to the drone of an engine that always sounded happy.  I began to think back about our operations and of the stress and concern I had for hers. I do know that under the anesthesia I slipped into the world of dreams and the fond wishes of many excepting one.  I have met some very unusual people in my lifetime, but this character is best described in the dream I had.  The good is I survived some very serious procedures.  The bad is the ill wishes extended that carried over into a chocolate/vanilla swirl of haziness. I slowly awoke from the Land of Oz.  The ugly part of not having control of one’s life, was over.  The Selway high meadows remained lush and green and an Elk lifted her head as her yearling trotted about confused.  The Comanche crossed the continental divide as I dialed in a little down trim for the long decent home. I cannot drive a vehicle for four weeks but I can tell everyone the operations were an amazing success.  I am very strong and fit and all my fly fishing doctors are very pleased with the results and with their patient.  There is a bonding that takes place between those that fly fish and who are doctors that fly fish also. I wish to thank each and every one of them and I wish to thank all of you who were at my bed side in thought and deeds.  It meant a lot. Believe me. Again, thank you all.   Mr.Gink "the saga continues"   http://www.gink.com/

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Question:

I have a Penn 4-ARG and St croix 12 wt rod to sell. Where can I post it?

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I have a Penn 4-ARG and St croix 12 wt rod to sell. Where can I post it?

    on ebay.  or, if you are lucky, on a fly fishing newsgroup, if you can find one. wayno

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You can post short private ads for personal gear on here, and on other groups. You can also post on e-bay to auction the stuff. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a Penn 4-ARG and St croix 12 wt rod to sell. Where can I post it?

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    on ebay.  or, if you are lucky, on a fly fishing newsgroup, if you can find one.

Or as Forty might say, "ebay ukyoufay." –Steve

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I think you just did. Regards from Montreal John Brkich

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Question:

I have a Leki "Wanderfraund" (my German spelling is bad) which I saw in a shop window in Germany and bought from Leki in the US.  It telescopes.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (apologies if this shows up twice) … I use Folstaff wading staffs for flyfishing in streams, they are collapsible and very sturdy, yet lightweight.  Folstaffs fit into a holster you slip onto pack belts. I could use a good folding staff for hiking on established trails (and some bushwhacking).   And could certainly go with the Folstaff, but I’m wondering however if there are other makes/models of collapsible models to research first ? thanks in advance, Sue Colorado Before you buy.

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(apologies if this shows up twice) … I use Folstaff wading staffs for flyfishing in streams, they are collapsible and very sturdy, yet lightweight.  Folstaffs fit into a holster you slip onto pack belts. I could use a good folding staff for hiking on established trails (and some bushwhacking).   And could certainly go with the Folstaff, but I’m wondering however if there are other makes/models of collapsible models to research first ? thanks in advance, Sue Colorado Before you buy.

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Question:

As a beginner with the fly, and a resident of Scotland, I get confused about the different styles between USA and UK fly fishing. It seems that USA rods are much shorter (8 to 10 feet?) than UK rods (10 to 14 feet?) Is this just a matter of fashion or is there a good reason for it? Plus, I need to know what weight of line / rod to go for- I will be fishing for brown trout of around 0.75 to 1 pound, plus sea trout of up to around 3 pounds, the odd Arctic Charr of up to 2 pounds, plus the (rarer) chance of a salmon- I guess I’m talking about two rods, aren’t I? The fishing will be on small rivers (say 10m wide), streams (3m-5m wide) and hill lochs, big and small, shore and boat. What weight should I go for? * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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As a beginner with the fly, and a resident of Scotland, I get confused about the different styles between USA and UK fly fishing. It seems that USA rods are much shorter (8 to 10 feet?) than UK rods (10 to 14 feet?) Is this just a matter of fashion or is there a good reason for it? Plus, I need to know what weight of line / rod to go for- I will be fishing for brown trout of around 0.75 to 1 pound, plus sea trout of up to around 3 pounds, the odd Arctic Charr of up to 2 pounds, plus the (rarer) chance of a salmon- I guess I’m talking about two rods, aren’t I? The fishing will be on small rivers (say 10m wide), streams (3m-5m wide) and hill lochs, big and small, shore and boat. What weight should I go for?

Hi Paul,  in the USA much shorter rods are used for nearly all fishing. For general fly-fishing in Scotland I would go for an 8 foot 6inch 5 weight, or a nine foot five weight if you fish lochs regularly.  This will handle all the fish you mention, cover nearly all situations adequately, allow reasonable boat fishing, and is not too heavy for delicate fishing.  Very short rods are only advantageous on small over grown streams. If you hook a salmon on this rod you may still be able to land it, but it would be folly to use such a rod deliberately for salmon. For the Salmon you really need another rod. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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As a beginner with the fly, and a resident of Scotland, I get confused about the different styles between USA and UK fly fishing. It seems that USA rods are much shorter (8 to 10 feet?) than UK rods (10 to 14 feet?)

Hi Paul, If you’re fly fishing in Scotland, mostly for trout. I would start with a 9 to 9.5 foot rod, rated for a 6 or 7 weight line. Even if your tastes develop such that you eventually want other rods (believe me, you probably will!), you will always find plenty of uses for such a rod in your armoury. Daiwa makes decent rods to this spec; so does Reddington if you want to spend a bit more and get a worthwhile guarantee. A nine foot 6/7 weight is light enough for river dry fly and wet fly fishing, yet has enough steam to throw a team of flies on a windy loch, or a longshank sea trout lure (streamer). Nine foot gives enough length to control the line and flies properly in a number of techniques, while not being so long that it will tire you. Above ten feet and the leverage starts to be noticeable. Traditionally, Americans have tended to use shorter rods than we do in the British Isles. With modern carbon fibre, there is not much case for rods of under eight feet, unless for fishing under overhanging trees (even then, the case is often overstated or spurious). The advantages of carbon fly rods in the nine to ten foot range are manifest and worthwhile. Americans have retained a sentimental affection for split cane (bamboo) fly rods. Cane rods are more labour intensive to make than modern carbon rods and are generally considerably more expensive. The material is heavier and ’slower’ than modern carbon fibre. A cane rod gets pretty ponderous if it is much OVER eight feet long. Forget cane as a first fly rod. Fly rods of over 12 feet are almost always double handed salmon rods, used for the various Spey casts, etc. They are not suitable for general trout fly fishing. You might be interested to look at the NG: uk.rec.fishing.game Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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Question:

[...] BTW, my fly vest contains about a half-bottle each of "Gink" and "Xink". They’ll be the last I’ll buy. Anyone else want to join this boycott?

Yes, I’d be MORE than happy to. Besides, I picked up a huge container of Albolene during my stay in the US anyway… — | Environmental Toxicology Section | phone: +31 30 535338              | | Utrecht University               | fax:   +31 30 535077              | | the Netherlands                  |                                   |

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[...] I thought it was pretty damn entertaining. I mean, here are all these flyfishers wandering into this newsgroup looking for tips on tying humpies, or instructions on how to fix the zippers on their gravel guards and what do they find: George Gehrke, beloved creator of Gehrke’s Gink, going completely freakin’ batshit in a tirade that would have made Adolph Coors blush. It was great! Bring him back here! He’s got balls the size of church bells, and this newsgroup (indeed, perhaps even the world of angling as we know it) needs more like him!

I don’t think this is entertaining at all. Out of curiosity I sometimes wander into rec.outdoors.fishing.fly (which I abandoned way before there even was a rec.outdoors.fishing.fly, just rec.outdoors.fishing), and time and again fall right into a similar raving, name-calling, rabid flamefest. Enough to make me realize why I switched r.o.f.f. for the And George Gehrke might have balls the size of church bells, but he certainly has a brain the size of the brain of our beloved quarry — or as we more commonly say: the size of a pea. And I will buy no more of his products and will actively pursue that more Europeans act likewise… — | Environmental Toxicology Section | phone: +31 30 535338              | | Utrecht University               | fax:   +31 30 535077              | | the Netherlands                  |                                   |

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The..(lot’s of shortwave radioesque editorial snipped)..Arrrrgh!!! A.J.Thramer

Y’know A.J., it’s not so much your opinion that bugs me, it’s your absolute view that only you, and those who share your views, are right and good.  Also, your narrow minded definition of those who DO something for a living is a load of crap (IMHO, of course). Ross

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [massive snip] I really think I’m wasting my time here. Color me gone. [snip again] I’ve about had enough of this net business anyhow.  My time is better used elsewhere. Color me gone. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink Yikes! I think we’ve just witnessed a self proclaimed "Professional Sportsman" go completely postal on the internet… That was the all time worst display of "professionalism" I’ve read in a long while, completely devoid of "sportsmanship". It was, in fact, simply a rant. Confronted with simple truth, he blew his brains out into the ether (not a pretty sight at all)…

I thought it was pretty damn entertaining. I mean, here are all these flyfishers wandering into this newsgroup looking for tips on tying humpies, or instructions on how to fix the zippers on their gravel guards and what do they find: George Gehrke, beloved creator of Gehrke’s Gink, going completely freakin’ batshit in a tirade that would have made Adolph Coors blush. It was great! Bring him back here! He’s got balls the size of church bells, and this newsgroup (indeed, perhaps even the world of angling as we know it) needs more like him!   George, if you’re still out there, switch to decaf, stop sniffing the Gink, turn off the Rush Limbo show, and get a grip…There’s room for you here…

Right on, but skip the "grip" part. And the decaf. Spinolio

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I’d support a tax hike if Billy would use it to get the end of his nose fixed so that it did not look so much like a penis. TimW

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Norm…those six occasions you mention wouldn’t have had any "pork" attached for the democrats agenda by any chance would they ? I believe there may have been a little more to those "occasions" than a vote on the environment. If not I would really like to know, pure speculation on my part but any details would be nice.

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I wouldn’t support anything Clinton proposes but I do agree his nose looks like a penis. I can’t imagine what his penis looks like!

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I wouldn’t support anything Clinton proposes but I do agree his nose looks like a penis. I can’t imagine what his penis looks like!

So this explains why you support Dole: you want a President who lacks any sign of a working penis. Steve

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The second ammendment has absolutelyNOTHING to do with hunting and/or sporting arms. It has everything to do with the right of the people to self protection, whether from the local burgler or the an overactive government that has lost its contact with the people. A flock of killer ducks was not what the framers had in mind.   Does anyone really think that the excise money is 100% apropriated back to sporting causes? If there is even ONE person who believes that I can get you a hot deal on a bridge…..  As an example look up the figures on aircraft use taxes, gasoline road taxes and I am quite sure a list of examples ad nauseum.   Mr Gherke was perhaps a bit vehement in his rhetoric but his facts have been well documented and I for one agree with his message if not exactly his tone. This is turning into a society of citizens who want to ‘feel’ good. Damn the facts and full speed ahead on the good ship lollipop. Sometimes the facts are unpleasant or painful. Bubbas reputation is one of a terrible joke among the international community. Hi duck hunting episode last year made me gag.   IMHO Gherkes right, an opinion shared by most people who make,repair,sell,build or in short DO something to earn a living. Go ahead FEEL good and send the country down a payh that will lead to a place where everyone is a victim and no one can afford to make a living.   I use his products because they are the best available and will happily continue to purchase same!    Election by sound bite!!! Arrrrgh!!! A.J.Thramer

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : ——DEFEAT THE DOPE SMOKING, DRAFT DODGING, GUN HATING, COCAIN : SNIFFING, MENA VISITOR (Fly In Site for his Coke Habit In Oklahoma) TWO Well, I’m not certain how this fits into the discussion on the taxation of outdoor equipment Those with short memories and/or brain damage (Mr. Gehrke, perhaps?) sould be reminded that all hunting and fishing gear sold in the US has, for years, been subject to special excise taxes (generally referred to as "Pitman-Robertson" and "Dingell-Johnson", after the legislative sponsors). These taxes have been a notable success, mainly because they are "earmarked" for specific purposes, and don’t go into general revenue. Thus, a proposal for extending the base for these taxes *should* be discussed rationally, not by referring to ‘two-faced lying whore hoppers’. As for "draft dodging", Mr. Gehrke is just out of touch. The Vietnam era was indeed controversial. Those of draft age at that time could fall into four basic categories: 1. agreed with the war, and went – gotta respect these guys 2. harboured major doubts that the war was right, but went anyway – can appreciate the dilemma that these guys faced, gotta respect them too 3. believed the war was wrong, and didn’t go – obviously a group Mr. Gehrke despises, but making a decision of that nature involved significant personal sacrifice for many (living just 6 miles north of the US border, I know how many of my neighbours are US expats) 4. believed that the war was a great thing, provided someone else went; "preserve my ass, but ship out the farm boys and ghetto rats" ; these pond scum include Dan Quayle (whose daddy bought him a postion in the Guard) and Rush Limbaugh (whose family hired a specialist to come up with a medical problem that the army doc couldn’t find); no way anyone should respect these turds I’d respect Mr. Gehrke’s disgust with the folks in group 3 if I didn’t suspect he was kissing the asses of the sleazeballs in group 4. : VOTE DOLE IF YOU WANT TO SAVE YOUR GUNS AND YOUR HERITAGE. Of course, in the event that the Republicans are too successful (i.e. Dole in the White House, with the Newtzies still running the House), the question becomes academic – yes, you’ll be able to own as many guns as you want, but there will be nothing to hunt (and nowhere to go to hunt). And, if the water’s unsafe to drink, there ain’t gonna be a lot of fishing around either. This isn’t a Democrat/ Republican issue (respect a lot of folks on both sides) or a liberal/conservative issue (as above), but a *sane/insane* issue. Now, I guess the next major question is : I’ve read more posts from Mr. Gehrke than I really want to, given that his style (rabid) and his orientation (screw the environment, I wanna go fishing) are so extreme. Why does Mr. Gehrke, who owes his livelihood to the existence of a healthy environment, take such anti-environmental stands? BTW, my fly vest contains about a half-bottle each of "Gink" and "Xink". They’ll be the last I’ll buy. Anyone else want to join this boycott? 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341   My, My, How mean-spirted we are today, hows the clear cutting going in B.C. ? Did the republicans get into Canada also ?   Just asking..   Harry

I think the original post by Mr. Gehrke was much more "mean spirited" than Tom’s, and at least Tom took some time to flesh out his thoughts instead of posting the all-caps, right-wing bumper sticker that George threw out. Just because you disagree with Tom’s reply, Harry, doesn’t make his message "mean spirited". Still, I’m very glad that Mr. Gehrke came out and stated his political beliefs so bluntly so that those like myself who flatly disagree can now avoid his products. Spinolio

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Henk Verhaar writes:

I don’t think this is entertaining at all. Out of curiosity I sometimes wander into rec.outdoors.fishing.fly (which I abandoned way before there even was a rec.outdoors.fishing.fly, just rec.outdoors.fishing), and time and again fall right into a similar raving, name-calling, rabid flamefest. Enough to make me realize why I switched r.o.f.f. for the And George Gehrke might have balls the size of church bells, but he certainly has a brain the size of the brain of our beloved quarry — or as we more commonly say: the size of a pea. And I will buy no more of his products and will actively pursue that more Europeans act likewise… the size of a pea…don’t really correspond to flaming anyone you……really we don’t

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I wouldn’t support anything Clinton proposes but I do agree his nose looks like a penis. I can’t imagine what his penis looks like! So this explains why you support Dole: you want a President who lacks any sign of a working penis. Steve

   Or law suits associated with the unbridled use of said unit. Where is  L  Bobbit  when you need her !   Harry  " If this is the Bridge to the 21st Century, I hope to God  Kennedy is not driving "

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I wouldn’t support anything Clinton proposes but I do agree his nose looks like a penis. I can’t imagine what his penis looks like! So this explains why you support Dole: you want a President who lacks any sign of a working penis.

they’re both lying. TimW

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Actually the final Senate count was all 50 Republican senators, because after the Ted Williams’ "Dirty Dozen"  article in Fly Rod and Reel went to press, the one Democrat, Sen. Shelby,  showed his true unenvironmental colors and switched to the Republican party. Should we read anything into this? Should this voting record be a factor in how we vote on election day? For me, it will be a major factor.

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[massive snip] I really think I’m wasting my time here. Color me gone.

[snip again] I’ve about had enough of this net business anyhow.  My time is better used elsewhere. Color me gone. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink

Yikes! I think we’ve just witnessed a self proclaimed "Professional Sportsman" go completely postal on the internet… That was the all time worst display of "professionalism" I’ve read in a long while, completely devoid of "sportsmanship". It was, in fact, simply a rant. Confronted with simple truth, he blew his brains out into the ether (not a pretty sight at all)… George, if you’re still out there, switch to decaf, stop sniffing the Gink, turn off the Rush Limbo show, and get a grip…There’s room for you here… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.     Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus            Maynard, Massachusetts < <      Charter Member of "Curmudgeons Unlimited"       < <<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinions expressed herein may not be shared by             my employer, etc…

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I wasn’t aware that the rabid and absurd Mr. Gherke in this group was the same who makes fly floatant.  If this is true (and I’d like confirmation of same), then I second the boycott motion.  This guy is hell-bent on destroying our resources for his own gain; something I don’t want to support.  Instead, I’ll use the environmentally friendly products made by Loon.

Response:

: ——DEFEAT THE DOPE SMOKING, DRAFT DODGING, GUN HATING, COCAIN : SNIFFING, MENA VISITOR (Fly In Site for his Coke Habit In Oklahoma) TWO Mr. Gherke: I read with dismay your response to our neighbor from the North.  My disappointment is not with your political views; you are entitled to express those as you wish.  Rather, I take issue with the discourteous and disrespectful way in which you have attacked the President of the United States in this international forum.  You behavior undermines the integrity and honor of our nation.  I shudder to think that the international community regards behavior such as yours as the norm for all Americans. Recently in the fly tying newgroup, you wrote about loyalty to U.S. manufacturers and their products.  You stated, "If Americans will not support Americans, then who will?"  Your conduct in this forum reveals your hypocricy.  No matter what you think of his policies or performance in office, you owe it to your nation and your fellow citizens to accord President Clinton the respect he and his office deserve.  If you dislike his policies or personal conduct, I urge you to exercise your right to vote against him and campaign for his political opponent in a constructive way. But personal attacks that disparage not just the man but the office have no place in civilized political discourse. I do not mean to imply that those who hold views similar to yours have a monopoly on discourtesy.  The legions who attacked President Nixon during his tenure were guilty of the same lack of honor.  More recently, arch-conservatives such as Rush Limbaugh and Bob Grant have helped institutionalize disrespect.  It is not an issue of politics, it is a matter of manners, pure and simple.  Hysterical and personal invective, whether liberal or conservative, sways no one’s opinion.  It simply tells others that Americans are a bunch of boors.  To say nothing of what we are teaching our children! Indeed, I believe that Americans have become fed up with negativism and discourtesy in the political process.  IMO, the best messages to come from the presidential debate held last night in Hartford were the expressions of professional respect and personal amity that each candidate holds for the other.  If you respect Mr. Dole, your chosen candidate, at all, then I suggest you follow his example of courteous and honorable conduct. I also urge you to retract your statements and apologize for the poor behavior you have exhibited in front of thousands of people.  While you are entitled to your policitcal views, you are not entitled to disparage America at the same time that you ask for the loyalty of Americans.  It is for this reason that I intend to join the boycott of your products. Respectfully, Michael Zuch

Response:

Tom, Good post! I won’t buy any Gink or Xink either. An interesting article appeared in the April 1996 issue of Fly Rod & Reel entitled "Out of Touch" by Ted Williams. Information in the article was collated by the National Wildlife Foundation. The article makes for interesting reading, but a portion lists the "dirty dozens" …."those listed are the dirtiest of the dirty; to make this compliation, they had to enter an anti-enviornmental vote on at least five of six occasions."(page 40) The Senate list had 49 Republicans and 1 Democrat. The House had 176 republicans and 13 Democrats. Mr.Dole made the list with five out of a possible of six anti-enviornmental votes. Norm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tom, Good post! I won’t buy any Gink or Xink either. An interesting article appeared in the April 1996 issue of Fly Rod & Reel entitled "Out of Touch" by Ted Williams. Information in the article was collated by the National Wildlife Foundation. The article makes for interesting reading, but a portion lists the "dirty dozens" …."those listed are the dirtiest of the dirty; to make this compliation, they had to enter an anti-enviornmental vote on at least five of six occasions."(page 40) The Senate list had 49 Republicans and 1 Democrat. The House had 176 republicans and 13 Democrats. Mr.Dole made the list with five out of a possible of six anti-enviornmental votes. Norm

  As Spinolio has rightly pointed out, the tone of George’s post was none too sweet. I am not condoning how he stated his feelings.  I also think he passed the point of "good taste".   What I do find amusing is the flight by some, on angelic wings, too some self-ordanined "higher ground". It is patently bullfeathers. Your above quoted article was printed on paper from trees, yes folks, trees that most likely where the result of clear cutting, are we all going to cancel our subscription ??  .  Mr Williams myopic views are well known and his cutting down of trees to get them printed is no less " anti-enviromental" than the people he  harpoons editorially.  How much tool oil went down some river to get your reels made?  Did your return the reel ?  How many Dams provide power so you can run your computer ? Do you shut your power off in protest?  The hypocrisy is knee deep here     The very idea that this "Holy" sport is a "non-impact", environmentally PC way of entertainment, is absolute crap on the face of it, and if you think that by partaking in this "hobby" you are somehow an environmentalist, you had better look again.  It is a blood sport that requires one to use, yes use , natural resources to partake. This is a contact sport folks, we impact the river, lake, creek environs  hard and to think we do not is teaching what to our children ?.    I don’t mean to point toward you per say Norm , it is just that there is an aroma about this that makes me gag. George is not the only one who may want to apologize "internationally", what ever that means.   It’s Monday…   Harry

Response:

Fact is Mr. Clinton has been in office for 4 years and some very tough gun regulating laws have been passed…as far as I know no sportsman has had his or her hunting rifle confiscated….second fact…there is no question which Presidential candidate will better protect our natural resources…third fact, the Vietnam war was nothing like WW1 or WW2…to use that war as a litimus test of ones patriotism is absurd…55,000 American men and women died to satisfy the hard ons of politicians and big business…fourth fact..Mr Gehreke is intitled to think what he wants of Bill Clinton, but he should check into the reality a bit more before openning his mouth.  Thanks for your time and bandwidth.

Response:

Snip, snip, snip, snip, snip… I gotta say that I find this ad-hominem, mouth-foaming, pissing-contest sort of post really nauseating on this newsgroup, which I thought was for people who enjoy the __peace and quiet__ that goes along with fly-fishing. Sure, let’s fight for what we hold dear; but calling people filthy names just because they wrote out a carefully considered opinion that doesn’t agree with you, is offputting and embarrassing to see in a newsgroup like this. Just my $.02 CDN. — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank, ichthyophile. Toronto, Ontario, Canada. see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html

Response:

: ——DEFEAT THE DOPE SMOKING, DRAFT DODGING, GUN HATING, COCAIN : SNIFFING, MENA VISITOR (Fly In Site for his Coke Habit In Oklahoma) TWO Well, I’m not certain how this fits into the discussion on the taxation of outdoor equipment Those with short memories and/or brain damage (Mr. Gehrke, perhaps?) sould be reminded that all hunting and fishing gear sold in the US has, for years, been subject to special excise taxes (generally referred to as "Pitman-Robertson" and "Dingell-Johnson", after the legislative sponsors). These taxes have been a notable success, mainly because they are "earmarked" for specific purposes, and don’t go into general revenue. Thus, a proposal for extending the base for these taxes *should* be discussed rationally, not by referring to ‘two-faced lying whore hoppers’. As for "draft dodging", Mr. Gehrke is just out of touch. The Vietnam era was indeed controversial. Those of draft age at that time could fall into four basic categories: 1. agreed with the war, and went – gotta respect these guys 2. harboured major doubts that the war was right, but went anyway – can appreciate the dilemma that these guys faced, gotta respect them too 3. believed the war was wrong, and didn’t go – obviously a group Mr. Gehrke despises, but making a decision of that nature involved significant personal sacrifice for many (living just 6 miles north of the US border, I know how many of my neighbours are US expats) 4. believed that the war was a great thing, provided someone else went; "preserve my ass, but ship out the farm boys and ghetto rats" ; these pond scum include Dan Quayle (whose daddy bought him a postion in the Guard) and Rush Limbaugh (whose family hired a specialist to come up with a medical problem that the army doc couldn’t find); no way anyone should respect these turds I’d respect Mr. Gehrke’s disgust with the folks in group 3 if I didn’t suspect he was kissing the asses of the sleazeballs in group 4. : VOTE DOLE IF YOU WANT TO SAVE YOUR GUNS AND YOUR HERITAGE. Of course, in the event that the Republicans are too successful (i.e. Dole in the White House, with the Newtzies still running the House), the question becomes academic – yes, you’ll be able to own as many guns as you want, but there will be nothing to hunt (and nowhere to go to hunt). And, if the water’s unsafe to drink, there ain’t gonna be a lot of fishing around either. This isn’t a Democrat/ Republican issue (respect a lot of folks on both sides) or a liberal/conservative issue (as above), but a *sane/insane* issue. Now, I guess the next major question is : I’ve read more posts from Mr. Gehrke than I really want to, given that his style (rabid) and his orientation (screw the environment, I wanna go fishing) are so extreme. Why does Mr. Gehrke, who owes his livelihood to the existence of a healthy environment, take such anti-environmental stands? BTW, my fly vest contains about a half-bottle each of "Gink" and "Xink". They’ll be the last I’ll buy. Anyone else want to join this boycott? 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : ——DEFEAT THE DOPE SMOKING, DRAFT DODGING, GUN HATING, COCAIN : SNIFFING, MENA VISITOR (Fly In Site for his Coke Habit In Oklahoma) TWO Well, I’m not certain how this fits into the discussion on the taxation of outdoor equipment Those with short memories and/or brain damage (Mr. Gehrke, perhaps?) sould be reminded that all hunting and fishing gear sold in the US has, for years, been subject to special excise taxes (generally referred to as "Pitman-Robertson" and "Dingell-Johnson", after the legislative sponsors). These taxes have been a notable success, mainly because they are "earmarked" for specific purposes, and don’t go into general revenue. Thus, a proposal for extending the base for these taxes *should* be discussed rationally, not by referring to ‘two-faced lying whore hoppers’. As for "draft dodging", Mr. Gehrke is just out of touch. The Vietnam era was indeed controversial. Those of draft age at that time could fall into four basic categories: 1. agreed with the war, and went – gotta respect these guys 2. harboured major doubts that the war was right, but went anyway – can appreciate the dilemma that these guys faced, gotta respect them too 3. believed the war was wrong, and didn’t go – obviously a group Mr. Gehrke despises, but making a decision of that nature involved significant personal sacrifice for many (living just 6 miles north of the US border, I know how many of my neighbours are US expats) 4. believed that the war was a great thing, provided someone else went; "preserve my ass, but ship out the farm boys and ghetto rats" ; these pond scum include Dan Quayle (whose daddy bought him a postion in the Guard) and Rush Limbaugh (whose family hired a specialist to come up with a medical problem that the army doc couldn’t find); no way anyone should respect these turds I’d respect Mr. Gehrke’s disgust with the folks in group 3 if I didn’t suspect he was kissing the asses of the sleazeballs in group 4. : VOTE DOLE IF YOU WANT TO SAVE YOUR GUNS AND YOUR HERITAGE. Of course, in the event that the Republicans are too successful (i.e. Dole in the White House, with the Newtzies still running the House), the question becomes academic – yes, you’ll be able to own as many guns as you want, but there will be nothing to hunt (and nowhere to go to hunt). And, if the water’s unsafe to drink, there ain’t gonna be a lot of fishing around either. This isn’t a Democrat/ Republican issue (respect a lot of folks on both sides) or a liberal/conservative issue (as above), but a *sane/insane* issue. Now, I guess the next major question is : I’ve read more posts from Mr. Gehrke than I really want to, given that his style (rabid) and his orientation (screw the environment, I wanna go fishing) are so extreme. Why does Mr. Gehrke, who owes his livelihood to the existence of a healthy environment, take such anti-environmental stands? BTW, my fly vest contains about a half-bottle each of "Gink" and "Xink". They’ll be the last I’ll buy. Anyone else want to join this boycott? 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

  My, My, How mean-spirted we are today, hows the clear cutting going in B.C. ? Did the republicans get into Canada also ?   Just asking..   Harry

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : ——DEFEAT THE DOPE SMOKING, DRAFT DODGING, GUN HATING, COCAIN : SNIFFING, MENA VISITOR (Fly In Site for his Coke Habit In Oklahoma) TWO Well, I’m not certain how this fits into the discussion on the taxation of outdoor equipment Those with short memories and/or brain damage (Mr. Gehrke, perhaps?) sould be reminded that all hunting and fishing gear sold in the US has, for years, been subject to special excise taxes (generally referred to as "Pitman-Robertson" and "Dingell-Johnson", after the legislative sponsors). These taxes have been a notable success, mainly because they are "earmarked" for specific purposes, and don’t go into general revenue. Thus, a proposal for extending the base for these taxes *should* be discussed rationally, not by referring to ‘two-faced lying whore hoppers’. As for "draft dodging", Mr. Gehrke is just out of touch. The Vietnam era was indeed controversial. Those of draft age at that time could fall into four basic categories: 1. agreed with the war, and went – gotta respect these guys 2. harboured major doubts that the war was right, but went anyway – can appreciate the dilemma that these guys faced, gotta respect them too 3. believed the war was wrong, and didn’t go – obviously a group Mr. Gehrke despises, but making a decision of that nature involved significant personal sacrifice for many (living just 6 miles north of the US border, I know how many of my neighbours are US expats) 4. believed that the war was a great thing, provided someone else went; "preserve my ass, but ship out the farm boys and ghetto rats" ; these pond scum include Dan Quayle (whose daddy bought him a postion in the Guard) and Rush Limbaugh (whose family hired a specialist to come up with a medical problem that the army doc couldn’t find); no way anyone should respect these turds I’d respect Mr. Gehrke’s disgust with the folks in group 3 if I didn’t suspect he was kissing the asses of the sleazeballs in group 4. : VOTE DOLE IF YOU WANT TO SAVE YOUR GUNS AND YOUR HERITAGE. Of course, in the event that the Republicans are too successful (i.e. Dole in the White House, with the Newtzies still running the House), the question becomes academic – yes, you’ll be able to own as many guns as you want, but there will be nothing to hunt (and nowhere to go to hunt). And, if the water’s unsafe to drink, there ain’t gonna be a lot of fishing around either. This isn’t a Democrat/ Republican issue (respect a lot of folks on both sides) or a liberal/conservative issue (as above), but a *sane/insane* issue. Now, I guess the next major question is : I’ve read more posts from Mr. Gehrke than I really want to, given that his style (rabid) and his orientation (screw the environment, I wanna go fishing) are so extreme. Why does Mr. Gehrke, who owes his livelihood to the existence of a healthy environment, take such anti-environmental stands? BTW, my fly vest contains about a half-bottle each of "Gink" and "Xink". They’ll be the last I’ll buy. Anyone else want to join this boycott? 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

It is evident that a Canadian, who may have harbored the idea of draft dodgers isn’t anyone I care to do business with anyways. That a Canadian has the reasons to justify why Americans should be draft dodgers, such as Slick Willie Clinton as opposed to the WWII Combat Soldier that is now running against  him, Bob Dole, I regard as a vacilating mind that is concerned about his own best interests and not that of his neighbors who were willing to die for his views, as wrong as they are. So, if you want to start a boycott, be my guest.  But don’t go around saying that I’m against good environmental stands and taxing, taxing, taxing is NOT the solution.  Not being responsible in defending the general public AGAINST POLITICAL TAXING IDEAS SUCH AS YOURS, would be criminal.  Not fighting the U.S. Forest Service with their sick plans to destroy our last remaining National Virgin Forests, is pure laziness and apathy.  My passion is against people who hold opposite points of view to these premises.  My record regarding my life long fight to uphold and prevent the special interests from destroying what remains for our childrens tomorrows is well documented.  I take special offense to your stupid, shallow, and outright filthy lies and acquisations to the contrary.  It is my company and my dollars and my staff and our persistant efforts over decades of work that have fought the good fight. Where the hell do you get off telling everybody that I have anti-environmental stands?  I spend thousands of dollars of Gink money every years supporting Trout Clubs, Many Chapers of T.U. the Federation of Fly Fishermen, Political candiates who care about your outdoor inventories . . . and because I don’t want the slick politicians taxing bikers, camping gear . . . you assume the worse?  You’re a very ill-informed, close-minded, selfish sonofabitch! In a lifetime of blood, sweat and tears, of writing letters, of digging in and putting my money where my mouth is, where were you in America? I’ll tell you where.  No where!  Never, in tens of thousands of dollars of donations to preserving, protecting and defending the enviornment has anyone . . . ANYONE . . . ever even said, "thank you". Well, I don’t want anyone’s thanks.  I haven’t given my entire life to the great American Outdoors to solicite anyones ‘thanks’.  I don’t need it.  Don’t want it. But you sir.  Are a pompous, ignorant person who knows NOTHING of what he is talking about. So, had you not snipped or had the full benefit of the entire thread of where our original distain for Slick Willie Clinton had started, you would have realized the justification for calling this liar of a President down for what he is.  Dishonest, unhonorable, and a yuppie who has not served this country, who is now a President that has not stopped the clear cutting timber barons, nor the dam builders, nor any of the rape that continues in outdoor America by special interests, even as I speak and you listen. I really think I’m wasting my time here. Color me gone. Do with my products what you want.  They still are the world’s best that you can buy.  If you want to go second class, that is your choice.  We have always appreciated our supporters business.  But if you think you can black-mail me . . . think again. At least you didn’t do business with a compromiser.  They will say anything to fall in line with such as yourself. I won’t. Tight lines always in the fond memories my products have given you. That, to me is the main satisfaction I’ve had on your life.  I’ve given you the best that is in me.  You can never that away.  Its too late. You want to take prisoners.  I don’t want any. I’ve about had enough of this net business anyhow.  My time is better used elsewhere. Color me gone. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink

Response:

Question:

My girlfriend has asked me to teach her how to flyfish.  I’ve been an avid flyfisherman for three years now.  I feel I’m good enough to tie knots in the air with the best of them . A few questions: 1. I don’t want to spend a lot of money for a rod/reel that she may lose interest in so I’m going to get something that I can use in the future (if necessary).  Any opinions on the prepackaged everything-you-need-to-start-NOW rod/reel/line combos?  I’ve seen some ranging from $30 to $200. Quality is an issue. 2. She asked if being left-handed would make a difference.  It had never occurred to me that I routinely cast with either hand, depending on the situation (ie, how many flies I’ve lost in the tree to my right-rear).  Retrieving is always done with rod in right/reeling with left.  Just curious if any left-handers have had any problems learning or buying equipment. 3. Women’s waders: I haven’t been able to find any in stores around here (Grand Rapids, MI).  Any experiences with mail ordering women’s waders (good or bad) would be helpful.  She will use the waders irregardless of fishing since she’s into fisheries biology.  Looking for good 4mm or 5mm neoprene. I read the thread from a few months ago about teaching the Significant Other how to flyfish. Interesting advice that will be taken to heart. Thanks in advance. Tight lines, Brian Austin

Response:

My girlfriend has asked me to teach her how to flyfish.  I’ve been an avid flyfisherman for three years now.  I feel I’m good enough to tie knots in the air with the best of them . (snip) 2. She asked if being left-handed would make a difference.  It had never occurred to me that I routinely cast with either hand, depending on the situation (ie, how many flies I’ve lost in the tree to my right-rear).  Retrieving is always done with rod in right/reeling with left.  Just curious if any left-handers have had any problems learning or buying equipment. Tight lines, Brian Austin

In terms of _learning_ to cast, my advice would be to stand in front of your girlfriend and have her "mirror" what you’re doing to get the timing, or stand to her left so she can see what you’re doing.  Or, get a copy of Ed Jaworowski’s book on casting (the best ever, IMHO). Enjoy! Doug Stewart

Response:

Brain. I suggest you bring her to my small ranch in Montana. Hawley Mountain Ranch max guests 24 is in the Absaroka Wilderness 25 miles north of Yellowstone Park. You can fish the Boulder River, horse back ride, hike or just read a book. This summer I caught so many fish that—ok I also hurt my right arm moving rocks–my right arm hurt so I had to learn to teach fly fishing with my left. So now when I go to the stream either arm works.  As far as teaching your girlfriend to fish , I taught my first wife to drive. Will enought said on that point. I did teach Ellen new wife of 10yr. how to fish when she was a girlfriend. First time on the stream she caught and released 6 before I got a fly on— so be careful!!!  Enjoy her and the outdoors thats what life is about.                       Your Montana Friend!!!                          Bryant Blewett BBlewett

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Question:

Every lake and water system down there has fish in it.  It dont take a genius to catch them.  Catch a grasshopper in the grass and throw it out into the water and watch the fish take it under.  If nothing hits it, move on.

Response:

I am going to be in Lafayette, LA  april 13-16 and would like to try flyfishing for bluegil (brim).  I am a rank amateur. Anybody have any suggestions on where I should try? thanks Mike in MI

Response: