Question:

And then, if you’re up to it, note the material preceding the quote that begins "I think its extremely bad form…". That’s "it’s," not "its." "It’s" is a contraction of "it is." That’s what I meant and that’s what I wrote. I didn’t intend the possessive "its." Most well educated native speakers know the difference. If you’re going to quote me, please quote me correctly, including standard punctuation as it apppears in the original material. If I get it wrong then please feel free to correct me, with an appropriate "[sic]" notation.

Whatta pputz. Wolfgang

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That’s a great idea, George. This could be fun. I’m thinking of a series of stories describing in excruciating detail every cast, every stream pocket, and every one of the gourmet meals we enjoyed in four days.   :^) By the way, most of our fish were considerably larger than the fish I described out of that particular pool. If merely catching large fish was the objective we would have fished elsewhere. Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – God, people?!  How much milage can you milk out of a 3 inch fish conclave? One more post and you gents can apply to the Guiness clan. GG

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God, people?!  How much milage can you milk out of a 3 inch fish conclave? One more post and you gents can apply to the Guiness clan. GG George, if you have nothing nice to say about the Eastern ‘Claves, then BLOW ME!

Come now (heh heh!).  I’ve caught plenty of 3" fish out west too…..

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God, people?!  How much milage can you milk out of a 3 inch fish conclave? One more post and you gents can apply to the Guiness clan. GG George, if you have nothing nice to say about the Eastern ‘Claves, then BLOW ME!

I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa.

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rw writes: I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa.

Yep.  Mainly because you get your litotes in a bunch.

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rw writes: I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa. Yep.  Mainly because you get your litotes in a bunch.

ROFLMAO!!!! Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa.

I didn’t say anything about ‘claves.  I just told cranky old fart out West to …..you know. Op

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rw writes: I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa. Yep.  Mainly because you get your litotes in a bunch.

OK, Dave. You seem to think it’s just fine for an Easterner to bad-mouth Western Claves. Go at it.

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rw writes: rw writes: I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa. Yep.  Mainly because you get your litotes in a bunch. OK, Dave. You seem to think it’s just fine for an Easterner to bad-mouth Western Claves. Go at it.

Where did I say that, rw?  Never said it.  You continue to put words in my mouth.  Oh, I get it.  It’s a figure of speech and a form of rhetoric called "lies."  Look it up.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rw writes: rw writes: I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa. Yep.  Mainly because you get your litotes in a bunch. OK, Dave. You seem to think it’s just fine for an Easterner to bad-mouth Western Claves. Go at it. Where did I say that, rw?  Never said it.  You continue to put words in my mouth.  Oh, I get it.  It’s a figure of speech and a form of rhetoric called "lies."  Look it up.

Dave, you need to go back and reread what you wrote. Willi

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rw writes: OK, Dave. You seem to think it’s just fine for an Easterner to bad-mouth Western Claves. Go at it. Where did I say that, rw?  Never said it.  You continue to put words in my mouth.  Oh, I get it.  It’s a figure of speech and a form of rhetoric called "lies."  Look it up.

You were (Must I say it?) whining that the Western Claves are not up to the camadraderie standards of the Eastern Claves. That came at a considerable surprise to me, and I suspect also to the several close friends I’ve made at the Western Claves. Before you get all teary-eyed about not having been able to fish with Warren at HF, let me remind you, once again, that Warren piloted the Gink boat, in which you wouldn’t have been caught dead.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rw writes: rw writes: I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa. Yep.  Mainly because you get your litotes in a bunch. OK, Dave. You seem to think it’s just fine for an Easterner to bad-mouth Western Claves. Go at it. Where did I say that, rw?  Never said it.  You continue to put words in my mouth.  Oh, I get it.  It’s a figure of speech and a form of rhetoric called "lies."  Look it up. Dave, you need to go back and reread what you wrote. Willi

Read back up four posts before yours in the quoted material and see if you can figure out who decided the shit needed to be stirred one more time.  If you do it right, there will be no surprise.  And then, if you’re up to it, note the material preceding the quote that begins "I think its extremely bad form…". Well damn, it looks for all the world like a continuation of a long running tete a tete, don’t it?  But, if you take the time (and you can figure it out) you may also note that Stevie’s typical shithead comment did NOT come in response to anything Dave said (as he deliberately implied by his abuse of usenet convention), but instead followed a comment by Mark.  THEN, if you’re head hasn’t started throbbing too badly, you might want to follow what goes on here day in and day out, in which case you will possibly discover that there is a pattern here. Care to guess? Wolfgang

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  you might want to follow what goes on here day in and day out, in which case you will possibly discover that there is a pattern here. Care to guess?

That RW puts a bug up your butt and you jump on anything RW says? Willi

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 you might want to follow what goes on here day in and day out, in which case you will possibly discover that there is a pattern here. Care to guess? That RW puts a bug up your butt and you jump on anything RW says?

Bingo!

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And then, if you’re up to it, note the material preceding the quote that begins "I think its extremely bad form…".

That’s "it’s," not "its." "It’s" is a contraction of "it is." That’s what I meant and that’s what I wrote. I didn’t intend the possessive "its." Most well educated native speakers know the difference. If you’re going to quote me, please quote me correctly, including standard punctuation as it apppears in the original material. If I get it wrong then please feel free to correct me, with an appropriate "[sic]" notation.

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  You were (Must I say it?) whining that the Western Claves are not up to the camadraderie standards of the Eastern Claves. That came at a considerable surprise to me, and I suspect also to the several close friends I’ve made at the Western Claves. Before you get all teary-eyed about not having been able to fish with Warren at HF, let me remind you, once again, that Warren piloted the Gink boat, in which you wouldn’t have been caught dead.

I have to admit with pride R.W. that you certainly are a talented fly fisherman catching more fish than anyone.  Each day, you were "the man".  I had a lot of fun with you and wish to mention the Henry’s Fork Western Conclave was well worth the effort. It was a pleasure fishing with you r.w. Everyone should know Warren and you taught me how to fish a dropper with a bobber (WHOOPS! I mean) "indicator" which is something I’ve never done before.  However; now that we are home chasing Steelhead and other "critters of the deep" I’m back to the single nymphing with no indicators but the fly line.  Incidently, the steelhead fishing this year has been good.  Very good, in fact. Warren is an excellent guide.  He knows those rivers as well as me and probably better now.  Regardless, we have to do this again sometime r.w. Finally, Dave LaCourse?  You’re always welcome in the Gink Drift Boat, dead or alive.  There was a hatched buried at this Western Conclave and for that alone, I’m thankful.  There IS MORE to these get togethers than what meets the eye.  I had a great time. That’s for sure. GeorgeG.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You were (Must I say it?) whining that the Western Claves are not up to the camadraderie standards of the Eastern Claves. That came at a considerable surprise to me, and I suspect also to the several close friends I’ve made at the Western Claves. Before you get all teary-eyed about not having been able to fish with Warren at HF, let me remind you, once again, that Warren piloted the Gink boat, in which you wouldn’t have been caught dead. I have to admit with pride R.W. that you certainly are a talented fly fisherman catching more fish than anyone.  Each day, you were "the man". I had a lot of fun with you and wish to mention the Henry’s Fork Western Conclave was well worth the effort. It was a pleasure fishing with you r.w. Everyone should know Warren and you taught me how to fish a dropper with a bobber (WHOOPS! I mean) "indicator" which is something I’ve never done before.  However; now that we are home chasing Steelhead and other "critters of the deep" I’m back to the single nymphing with no indicators but the fly line.  Incidently, the steelhead fishing this year has been good.  Very good, in fact. Warren is an excellent guide.  He knows those rivers as well as me and probably better now.  Regardless, we have to do this again sometime r.w. Finally, Dave LaCourse?  You’re always welcome in the Gink Drift Boat, dead or alive.  There was a hatched (HATCHET! dang it.) buried at this Western

Conclave and for that – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – alone, I’m thankful.  There IS MORE to these get togethers than what meets the eye.  I had a great time. That’s for sure. GeorgeG.

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I have to admit with pride R.W. that you certainly are a talented fly fisherman catching more fish than anyone.  Each day, you were "the man".  

That’s total bullshit, but I will tell you one thing from my heart. You showed up at the HF Clave. I didn’t think you would, but you did. Another thing, George, is that you deserve a lot of credit for lending your drift boat to Warren. That was generous. It’s helped him a lot. Now please, George, don’t start acting like an asshole on ROFF. We don’t need it. We have plenty of that.

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  you might want to follow what goes on here day in and day out, in which case you will possibly discover that there is a pattern here. Care to guess? That RW puts a bug up your butt and you jump on anything RW says?  

Hm…..don’t understand?…..or just won’t deal with it?  Well, it hardly matters does it?   Ta ta. Wolfgang

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When last we met our fearsome threesome, they were standing on Owl Creek Bridge – oops, make that bridge no. 2 across Hazel Creek. Wolfie was doing his chimney routine and both Messrs. Miller and Siebeneich had discovered that the only person with drinking water was your obedient servant. I generously gave them a full Platypus bag and they drank copiously of its contents. Neither of them asked why I didn’t drink any of the same stuff and they didn’t say anything about its taste. Nevertheless, we continued the march up to the Sawdust Pile campground beyond the third bridge where we stopped again. I reconnoitered the stream for a few minutes and came back to see Jeffie and Wolfie talking to a girl. Aha! The pulchritudinous Lana, thought I, as I walked over to make her acquaintance. Of course, upon seeing me she quickly felt the need to retrace her steps back downstream. Obviously a girl of great self-discipline. We continued on to the Bone Valley campsite about 5.7 miles from the lake. There we established the Bone Valley Villa that we would use for the next two nights. We set up the camp. Miller had a one-man tent, and Wolfgang and I shared Wolfgang’s palatial abode. Then each of us went different directions – Jeffie making his way upstream on Hazel Creek, Wolfie headed downstream to work his way back up Hazel, while I began working my way up Bone Valley Creek. Caught a couple of small parr-marked rainbows out of one pool but nothing larger than about three inches. Wolfie met me a little ways up stream. He had a lot more success than I was having, and it was interesting just watching him cast. We fished a couple of hundred yards up Bone Valley before returning to the Villa in time for cocktails before dinner. More to come . . . — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

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God, people?!  How much milage can you milk out of a 3 inch fish conclave? One more post and you gents can apply to the Guiness clan. GG

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God, people?!  How much milage can you milk out of a 3 inch fish conclave? One more post and you gents can apply to the Guiness clan. GG

George, if you have nothing nice to say about the Eastern ‘Claves, then BLOW ME! Op

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When last we met our fearsome threesome, they were standing on Owl Creek Bridge – oops, make that bridge no. 2 across Hazel Creek. Wolfie was doing his chimney routine and both Messrs. Miller and Siebeneich had discovered that the only person with drinking water was your obedient servant. I generously gave them a full Platypus bag and they drank copiously of its contents. Neither of them asked why I didn’t drink any of the same stuff and they didn’t say anything about its taste. Nevertheless, we continued the march up to the Sawdust Pile campground beyond the third bridge where we stopped again. I reconnoitered the stream for a few minutes and came back to see Jeffie and Wolfie talking to a girl. Aha! The pulchritudinous Lana, thought I, as I walked over to make her acquaintance. Of course, upon seeing me she quickly felt the need to retrace her steps back downstream. Obviously a girl of great self-discipline. We continued on to the Bone Valley campsite about 5.7 miles from the lake. There we established the Bone Valley Villa that we would use for the next two nights. We set up the camp. Miller had a one-man tent, and Wolfgang and I shared Wolfgang’s palatial abode. Then each of us went different directions – Jeffie making his way upstream on Hazel Creek, Wolfie headed downstream to work his way back up Hazel, while I began working my way up Bone Valley Creek. Caught a couple of small parr-marked rainbows out of one pool but nothing larger than about three inches. Wolfie met me a little ways up stream. He had a lot more success than I was having, and it was interesting just watching him cast. We fished a couple of hundred yards up Bone Valley before returning to the Villa in time for cocktails before dinner. More to come . . .

Hm…….well Bob, I think I still like my version better for raw excitement and suspense…….but I’ll grant you’ve got the edge in the verifiable historical detail department.       Carry on. Wolfgang who reserves the right to add color commentary from time to time.

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"Wolfgang Siebeneich" wrote Hm…….well Bob, I think I still like my version better for raw excitement and suspense…….but I’ll grant you’ve got the edge in the verifiable historical detail department.       Carry on. Wolfgang who reserves the right to add color commentary from time to time.

Damn. If I’d known I was committing "verifiable historical detail" I’d have thought twice. After all, the real sense of the trip is not in the verifiable historical detail. It’s the wisps of vapor drifting herpetologically – yes, dammit, herpetologically – through the trees. Bob

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Wolfgang Siebeneich" wrote Hm…….well Bob, I think I still like my version better for raw excitement and suspense…….but I’ll grant you’ve got the edge in the verifiable historical detail department.       Carry on. Wolfgang who reserves the right to add color commentary from time to time. Damn. If I’d known I was committing "verifiable historical detail" I’d have thought twice. After all, the real sense of the trip is not in the verifiable historical detail. It’s the wisps of vapor drifting herpetologically – yes, dammit, herpetologically – through the trees. Bob

Yes……but…..still, tis the information age and historians as yet will merely be another turgid footnote. Wolfgang thus is it ever for those who serve the muse…….lana…….where art thou?      :(

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Question:

Any ideas???? Terry

gherke invented it of course, just ask him <G cb

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Amazing what one may learn on here, I never realised that the expression "dickhead" had such historical connotations ! TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de <SNIP LLBeanian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the shockingly crude preserved penile adornment which was, one can only surmise, worn as a headdress by the leaders. The hypothesis that <SNIP –waldo submitted with all due respect, literary license of published article (http://www.med.abaco-mac.it/issue001/articles/doc/006.htm) used.

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LaPlacian industry is a myth. There is no supporting archaeological evidence whatsoever that the pugilistic LaPlac sloth were ever industrious during the upper paleolithic period of Orvian neandertal times. Even the more conservative estimate carries the significant implication that many opportunities for acculturation must have occurred through contact between groups living on each side of the frontier. [snipped, regrettably]

Enjoying another cold beverage tonight, eh my friend? –Steve (looks like next Thursday’s the day. Really… No, I mean it

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There have been tantalizing recent finds at the Orvis site in Portugal. Dated reliably at 33,000 years old, this is among the most recent Homo neandertal sites in the world. Extremely small hooks made of tempered bone have been found. These finds are associated with fossilized mites, specific to certain avian and mammal hosts, and with fossilized pollen specific to fibrous plant material of the type used for making thread. Archeologists have discovered elaborate burial sites, in which the body (presumably of the chief or head man) was decorated with literally hundreds of these hooks (ranging from about #18 to #10.). Also associated with the burial sites are the fossilized bones of remarkably large pisciverous specimens…..

It should come as no surprise to anyone here that there ARE different interpretations of these findings.  The plenitude of so-called "venus" figurines at paleolithic sites throughout Europe has been taken to suggest that the patriarchal religious cults so prevalent today were once the exception rather than the rule.  Many archeologists and paleontologists today believe that goddess worship was the norm for the time; a theory bolstered by the large role played by goddesses in many "primitive" societies throughout recorded history.  The currently popular "sleeps with the fishes" school holds that the hooks found on the Orvis remains suggest a rather more sinister scenario than that posited by adherents to the "sport" theory.  The presumed perforation of the deceased by hundreds of sharp implements, so the theory goes, may be seen as a metaphor, and retribution, for the collective domination and penetration, not only of the women of the tribe, but also of the mother goddess Earth herself.  Needless to say, much work remains to be done at this and other similar sites. Wolfgang Chairman, Revision Committee

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My theory is they starved to death after embracing C+R. JonCook.

That is a reasonable hypothesis, Jonathan, but it doesn’t explain the sudden ascendance of Homo sapiens. Another peculiar fact about these Orvis people that I didn’t mention, however, but that supports your hypothesis, is that despite the compelling fossil evidence for elaborate fishing rituals, there is no evidence whatsoever that they actually consumed fish. Indeed, all the evidence points to a "totem fish culture," which elevated fish to god-like status. Perhaps the leading hypothesis about the dimise of the Orvis neandertals is that they increasingly diverted their resources to opulent displays of wealth, symbolized by the fish hooks in their elaborate burial ceremonies, rather like the ancient Egyptians and Aztecs of historical times. The "conspicuous consumption" of wasting the hooks [*], so this theory goes, established a corrupt, aristocratic class structure that was ripe for the picking by Homo sapiens, which had recently migrated from northern Africa (where there is no fishing to speak of, and never has been). Quite by coincidence, supporting evidence for this hypothesis comes from the recently re-opened, contemporaneous LaPlac site in the Loire Valley of France. It seems that thse LaPlac neandertals copied the Orvis fishing toolkit literally, even slavishly. There is some evidence that Orvis technology was even exported to the LaPlac site. [*] Reconstructions of the manufacture of these hooks, some of which are elaborately carved despite their small size, yields an estimate of 40 man hours required to make each hook, which is in stark contrast to the approximately 4 man hours required to produce a functionally equivalent, and even superior hook without useless ornamentation. [**] As I mentioned previously, the proponents of the "hybridization" hypothesis point to the modern flyfishing compulsion of Homo sapiens, with its elaborate, conspicuous display of wealth and "insider knowledge", to support their theory. The opposing "takeover and eat" school replies that this is merely a case of convergent evolution. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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SPLOOORRRKK!!!!! Danl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any ideas???? Terry gherke invented it of course, just ask him <G cb

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Was this prehistoric Gink? JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yep, the first flies were pieces of intestine and feces smeared on a hook… they hadn’t become no-scent purists yet.

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Any ideas???? Terry

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Any ideas???? Terry

The Brits tied bits of fur to hooks and flung them about underwater. The Germans were hijacked as mercenaries and brought their floating feather bugs with them to the States.  Both used long, stiff sticks to wildly flail the water.  The Americans, watching from the bushes, thought there was a buck to be made.  They immediately incorporated both methods into an intricate pattern of air-born manipulations using a limber bamboo pole.  Some bamboo pole users used worms and became known as bait slingers.  Some bamboo pole users continued with the bits of fur and feather and became known as fly fishermen.  This all occurred in Virginia, just outside the Hessian POW camp at Charlottsville. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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This history begins with the first recorded description of fishing with a fly (in Macedonia), written by Aelian around 200 AD.  It’s likely that someone may have attached fur or feather to a hook well before that, but I don’t know of the existence of any convincing archeological evidence. There have been tantalizing recent finds at the Orvis site in Portugal. Dated reliably at 33,000 years old…

Wow, Orvis has been around longer than I had realized.  :-)      - Ken — "A wedding is just like a funeral except that you get to smell  your own flowers." – Grace Hansen

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lol steve…. i’d say yer ’bout primed for the juan. happy hunti…uhmm, fishin’… –walt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This history begins with the first recorded description of fishing with a fly (in Macedonia), written by Aelian around 200 AD.  It’s likely that someone may have attached fur or feather to a hook well before that, but I don’t know of the existence of any convincing archeological evidence. There have been tantalizing recent finds at the Orvis site in Portugal. Dated reliably at 33,000 years old, this is among the most recent Homo neandertal sites in the world. Extremely small hooks made of tempered bone have been found. These finds are associated with fossilized mites, specific to certain avian and mammal hosts, and with fossilized pollen specific to fibrous plant material of the type used for making thread. Archeologists have discovered elaborate burial sites, in which the body (presumably of the chief or head man) was decorated with literally hundreds of these hooks (ranging from about #18 to #10.). Also associated with the burial sites are the fossilized bones of remarkably large pisciverous specimens. As a side note, it is especially curious that these hooks lack barbs, Alas, after 33,000 BP (before present), all traces of Homo neandertalis disappear from the Orvis site, aside from a thin layer of charred bones. They are replaced in the higher, more recent stata by Homo sapiens. A scientific controversy rages over whether the invaders exterminated (and apparently ate) neandertalis, or whether they interbred and hybridized with them. Supporters of the hybridization hypothesis point to the obseesion with flyfishing in modern Homo sapiens as evidence that we have, indeed, inherited neandertalis genes. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

– Ezflyfish.com: http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This history begins with the first recorded description of fishing with a fly (in Macedonia), written by Aelian around 200 AD.  It’s likely that someone may have attached fur or feather to a hook well before that, but I don’t know of the existence of any convincing archeological evidence. There have been tantalizing recent finds at the Orvis site in Portugal. Dated reliably at 33,000 years old, this is among the most recent Homo neandertal sites in the world. Extremely small hooks made of tempered bone have been found. These finds are associated with fossilized mites, specific to certain avian and mammal hosts, and with fossilized pollen specific to fibrous plant material of the type used for making thread. Archeologists have discovered elaborate burial sites, in which the body (presumably of the chief or head man) was decorated with literally hundreds of these hooks (ranging from about #18 to #10.). Also associated with the burial sites are the fossilized bones of remarkably large pisciverous specimens. As a side note, it is especially curious that these hooks lack barbs, Alas, after 33,000 BP (before present), all traces of Homo neandertalis disappear from the Orvis site, aside from a thin layer of charred bones. They are replaced in the higher, more recent stata by Homo sapiens. A scientific controversy rages over whether the invaders exterminated (and apparently ate) neandertalis, or whether they interbred and hybridized with them. Supporters of the hybridization hypothesis point to the obseesion with flyfishing in modern Homo sapiens as evidence that we have, indeed, inherited neandertalis genes.

Actually RW,  I saw a TV program about the transition between Neanthertal and sapiens; there was a distinct argument that they hybridised.  Mmm, could it be,  that we here fly anglers are descended from union between sapiens and neandertal.  Mmm,  that 4 foot haul…..

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Seems Orvis has been at it for longer than I thought !  Did they find any fossilised dog baskets ? TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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: large pisciverous specimens. As a side note, it is especially curious : that these hooks lack barbs, : Alas, after 33,000 BP (before present), all traces of Homo neandertalis : disappear from the Orvis site, aside from a thin layer of charred bones. My theory is they starved to death after embracing C+R. JonCook. — Are you a r.o.f.f. newbie? Then see http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~jcook/ROFF/

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Seems Orvis has been at it for longer than I thought !  Did they find any fossilised dog baskets ?

No but I heard that they did find some fossilized Orvis firewood in the communal fire pit. Jon

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My theory is they starved to death after embracing C+R.

Or inadvertently following Timbo’s trail.  

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My theory is they starved to death after embracing C+R. JonCook. That is a reasonable hypothesis, Jonathan, but it doesn’t explain the sudden ascendance of Homo sapiens. Another peculiar fact about these Orvis people that I didn’t mention, however, but that supports your hypothesis, is that despite the compelling fossil evidence for elaborate fishing rituals, there is no evidence whatsoever that they actually consumed fish. Indeed, all the evidence points to a "totem fish culture," which elevated fish to god-like status.

possible support of what you say rw is at this link: http://www.trollart.com/FSHWRSHP.html 8< Quite by coincidence, supporting evidence for this hypothesis comes fromthe recently re-opened, contemporaneous LaPlac site in the Loire Valleyof France. It seems that thse LaPlac neandertals copied the Orvisfishing toolkit literally, even slavishly. There is some evidence that Orvis technology was even exported to the LaPlac site.

LaPlacian industry is a myth. There is no supporting archaeological evidence whatsoever that the pugilistic LaPlac sloth were ever industrious during the upper paleolithic period of Orvian neandertal times. Even the more conservative estimate carries the significant implication that many opportunities for acculturation must have occurred through contact between groups living on each side of the frontier. In spite of this, LaPlacian Neandertals south of the mountains never became Upper Paleolithic and retained traditional Middle Paleolithic technologies and primitive LLBeanian tool-kits until the end: blade debitage is unknown in the late Orvian of the area, as are bone tools and personal adornments, with exception of course, the shockingly crude preserved penile adornment which was, one can only surmise, worn as a headdress by the leaders. The hypothesis that acculturation of LaPlacian neandertals would inevitably follow from contact with moderns and is the only possible explanation for the Fortenberrian and similar cultural phenomena must be, therefore, the object of serious inquiry. –waldo submitted with all due respect, literary license of published article (http://www.med.abaco-mac.it/issue001/articles/doc/006.htm) used.

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Terry,   I have read that fishing with a feathered lure was done in Egypt long before it was done in England.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any ideas???? Terry

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Terry,   I have read that fishing with a feathered lure was done in Egypt long before it was done in England.

Fish hooks go back to prehistory. It’s hard to believe that someone, somewhere in the stone age didn’t try an artificial lure made of fur or feathers. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Fish hooks go back to prehistory. It’s hard to believe that someone, somewhere in the stone age didn’t try an artificial lure made of fur

or feathers. Stone "toggle hooks" are common finds in pre-histoic Native American sites along Virginia’s estuaries.  Seems like I recall early explorer accounts of the natives using feathers as part of "fish lures". Fishing line was deer sinew. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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Terry, You can find a short on-line history of fly-fishing at: http://www.flyfishinghistory.com/contents.htm This history begins with the first recorded description of fishing with a fly (in Macedonia), written by Aelian around 200 AD.  It’s likely that someone may have attached fur or feather to a hook well before that, but I don’t know of the existence of any convincing archeological evidence. JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any ideas????

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Fish hooks go back to prehistory. It’s hard to believe that someone, somewhere in the stone age didn’t try an artificial lure made of fur or feathers. Stone "toggle hooks" are common finds in pre-histoic Native American sites along Virginia’s estuaries.  Seems like I recall early explorer accounts of the natives using feathers as part of "fish lures". Fishing line was deer sinew. —

I forget what the bone was called, but deer also provided a "hook" from each hoove. –walt

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This history begins with the first recorded description of fishing with a fly (in Macedonia), written by Aelian around 200 AD.  It’s likely that someone may have attached fur or feather to a hook well before that, but I don’t know of the existence of any convincing archeological evidence.

There have been tantalizing recent finds at the Orvis site in Portugal. Dated reliably at 33,000 years old, this is among the most recent Homo neandertal sites in the world. Extremely small hooks made of tempered bone have been found. These finds are associated with fossilized mites, specific to certain avian and mammal hosts, and with fossilized pollen specific to fibrous plant material of the type used for making thread. Archeologists have discovered elaborate burial sites, in which the body (presumably of the chief or head man) was decorated with literally hundreds of these hooks (ranging from about #18 to #10.). Also associated with the burial sites are the fossilized bones of remarkably large pisciverous specimens. As a side note, it is especially curious that these hooks lack barbs, Alas, after 33,000 BP (before present), all traces of Homo neandertalis disappear from the Orvis site, aside from a thin layer of charred bones. They are replaced in the higher, more recent stata by Homo sapiens. A scientific controversy rages over whether the invaders exterminated (and apparently ate) neandertalis, or whether they interbred and hybridized with them. Supporters of the hybridization hypothesis point to the obseesion with flyfishing in modern Homo sapiens as evidence that we have, indeed, inherited neandertalis genes. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Tempered bones.  LOL. JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There have been tantalizing recent finds at the Orvis site in Portugal. ……etc.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This history begins with the first recorded description of fishing with a fly (in Macedonia), written by Aelian around 200 AD.  It’s likely that someone may have attached fur or feather to a hook well before that, but I don’t know of the existence of any convincing archeological evidence. There have been tantalizing recent finds at the Orvis site in Portugal. Dated reliably at 33,000 years old, this is among the most recent Homo neandertal sites in the world. Extremely small hooks made of tempered bone have been found. These finds are associated with fossilized mites, specific to certain avian and mammal hosts, and with fossilized pollen specific to fibrous plant material of the type used for making thread. Archeologists have discovered elaborate burial sites, in which the body (presumably of the chief or head man) was decorated with literally hundreds of these hooks (ranging from about #18 to #10.). Also associated with the burial sites are the fossilized bones of remarkably large pisciverous specimens. As a side note, it is especially curious that these hooks lack barbs,

Mmm,  catch and release too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Alas, after 33,000 BP (before present), all traces of Homo neandertalis disappear from the Orvis site, aside from a thin layer of charred bones. They are replaced in the higher, more recent stata by Homo sapiens. A scientific controversy rages over whether the invaders exterminated (and apparently ate) neandertalis, or whether they interbred and hybridized with them. Supporters of the hybridization hypothesis point to the obseesion with flyfishing in modern Homo sapiens as evidence that we have, indeed, inherited neandertalis genes. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – very nice indeed. the conditions you describe are mirrored here in the NC mountains at this time. one question willi, what do you grease the tippet with? With the atmosphere around here lately, I’m pretty sure you don’t want to know. Willi

i guess i should have been clearer….. a floatant or sinkant? …could care less about the brand names… walt — Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.    (snip)    nice little vignette, troutmeister. wayno

It is a wonderful time of the year. Hopefully, Sir Louie and I will experience the same in a Grand River Autumn. Peter

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Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.

   Hungry and moody. I spent two hours yesterday afternoon on the river Willi and I call our home water. I was dazzled by the shimmering yellow aspen trees, and saddened by the feeling that another fine season of fishing is winding to a close. During my first hour on the water, I hooked 17 fine fish; every spot that looked like it may have EVER held a fish yielded one. About the time I started to feel like I was a pretty talented fisherman, the action ceased. I used every trick in the book to catch another five fish in two more hours. Sheesh.

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Petah Charles writes: It is a wonderful time of the year. Hopefully, Sir Louie and I will experience the same in a Grand River Autumn. Peter

What?  You aren’t guarantying fine weather?  Well, if we get rained out (muddy waters and all), Joanne, Joanne and I will sit around a bottle of single malt and shoot the breeze. (Looking forward to it) Dave

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i guess i should have been clearer….. a floatant or sinkant? …could care less about the brand names…

When fish have moved into shallow feeding areas and are feeding on small stuff ie midges, bwo’s etc. I use a floatant on the leader up until the last few inches. If there isn’t too much glare, you can follow the floating tippet and often see a flash from the fish taking the fly or see the tippet move with a take.  If there is too much glare, I’ll use a very small smear of florescent biostrike? (a putty like stuff)to give me something to follow. Takes are generally very subtle when fish are feeding on this small stuff. I use quill bodied flies quite a bit and if the quills are not coated with cement, they absorb water and sink well. Willi

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Autumn’s soft, midday light that has lost its summer intensity, allows good fish to move into very shallow pockets of water with just enough current to hide them [snip] . Fights seem a bit more determined and the colors a bit more intense.

I drove over to your fine state a week ago for the first time, while I only fished the South Platte near Deckers and the eleven mile canyon, I managed to find a little solitude and hook some of your fine colorado fish with 20 and 22 BWO’s. I can’t tell you how great it was to be fishing again and while I’m sure there are better streams in CO than the So. Platte but for two days it was heaven to me. Great post and you are a lucky man to live in such a beautiful place. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

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I like those warm days following a sub-freezing night when the fishing doesn’t start picking up until 11:00am, and then it’s over by 4:00pm. [good stuff snipped]

Great post, rw. Thanks for the imagery. You gotta love the crisp weather of the mountains in fall. –Steve

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When fish have moved into shallow feeding areas and are feeding on small stuff ie midges, bwo’s etc. I use a floatant on the leader up until the last few inches. If there isn’t too much glare, you can follow the floating tippet and often see a flash from the fish taking the fly or see the tippet move with a take.  If there is too much glare, I’ll use a very small smear of florescent biostrike? (a putty like stuff)to give me something to follow. Takes are generally very subtle when fish are feeding on this small stuff. I use quill bodied flies quite a bit and if the quills are not coated with cement, they absorb water and sink well. Willi

gotcha….. I’ve tried floatant on my leaders and tippet for small midge fishing. I’m not sure if it helps or not but I do know that when I "mud" the tippet for emergers, very small nymphs, or wets I seem to get more takes. I also like to keep a tight line fishing this style with a little twitch every few seconds. Takes are generally sound with that style and for c/r the hook is usually in the mouth versus deeper in the throat or gills. I usually have a long leader/tippet, 12′ +, when fishing this way. report: for all you roffians headed’ this way, the delayed harvest rivers have been stocked for the fall/winter fishing. The Watauga is running low, we can’t seem to shake this drought. –Walt — Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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The Watauga is running low, we can’t seem to shake this drought.

Supposed to rain this weekend up by Robbinsville (Forty effect I presume), maybe you’ll get some too. — Charlie…

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I drove over to your fine state a week ago for the first time, while I only fished the South Platte near Deckers and the eleven mile canyon, I managed to find a little solitude and hook some of your fine colorado fish with 20 and 22 BWO’s. I can’t tell you how great it was to be fishing again and while I’m sure there are better streams in CO than the So. Platte but for two days it was heaven to me.

The Platte is/was a fine river. It holds many good fish. However, with its proximity to Denver and Colorado Springs it is the heaviest fished river in the state. The section around Deckers has the reputation of being a very difficult river, especially for people fishing it the first time. Congrats on having success. Willi

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Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry. Autumn’s soft, midday light that has lost its summer intensity, allows good fish to move into very shallow pockets of water with just enough current to hide them.  Large fish wait in water barely deep enough to cover their backs to feed most efficiently on the small emerging bugs. A careless wade sends the fish shooting back into the pools leaving wakes of water in their path. A tiny fly on a long, light, greased leader is the key. A cast several feet above the lie lets the fly sink just enough to interest the fish. No weight, no indicator. Just a flash in the shallow water or the nudge of the floating tippet. Takes are hard and confident and the pressure from the strike sends the fish airborn. Fights seem a bit more determined and the colors a bit more intense. Willi

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Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.

    (snip)     nice little vignette, troutmeister. wayno

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Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.     (snip)     nice little vignette, troutmeister. wayno

very nice indeed. the conditions you describe are mirrored here in the NC mountains at this time. one question willi, what do you grease the tippet with? walt — Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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Willie wrote;Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.

This sounds like a fairy tale to me. I don’t think there will be an Autum in Texas this year…mabye in January. It is still in the mid 90’s and I have a hard time calling that Autumn. Big Dale

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very nice indeed. the conditions you describe are mirrored here in the NC mountains at this time. one question willi, what do you grease the tippet with?

With the atmosphere around here lately, I’m pretty sure you don’t want to know. Willi

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Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.

That sounds like the Stanley area, Willi, but our Autumn probably comes earlier than yours. The good Autumn fishing here is at about 7000 feet. I like those warm days following a sub-freezing night when the fishing doesn’t start picking up until 11:00am, and then it’s over by 4:00pm. There are just enough hoppers to keep fish looking at the surface, but the serious fish-catching is done with common nymphs — the perfect setup for a "hopper/dropper" rig. The water is skinny and the fish are concentrated in holes. This is easy fishing, once you get there. I can roll out of bed late, build a fire, make coffee and bacon and eggs, and take my time planning the trip. Then I can come home in daylight. Perfect. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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one question willi, what do you grease the tippet with? With the atmosphere around here lately, I’m pretty sure you don’t want to know.

Red Mucilin works a lot better than G*** for greasing tippets. — Ken Fortenberry

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Question:

Up to Pulaski, NY, I think the first weekend in October.  I’m the lone first timer of the bunch (they’ve been going for about 6 years now) so I’m not exactly sure where we’ll be.  I’ll get some more detailed info and let you know, maybe we can meet there.  Since I’ll be only one with a flyrod, in the bunch, it would be great to have someone to head to the fly only section with.

If you’re there the first weekend, I’ll miss meeting you.   (My photo on rw’s page is on the Salmon R.)  The run should be going strong that weekend though. Don’t put too much expectation into the FFO stretch.   Up there, they’ll crimp a couple ounces of huge split shot onto some 30# mono, put a piece of colored sponge on a #2 hook and lob the entire mess into the river with a fly rod. That unfortunately satisfies the FFO regulations. Catching those big guys on a fly rod is a blast, though, even if it’s sometimes a bit too easy (and sometimes not).   Dead drift a nymph (teeny nymphs and egg patterns are good) with one to three (at the most) BB sized split shot to just bounce on the bottom (depending on depth & flow).   Use a big strike indicator. It’s a simple enough rig to roll cast and has been fantastically effective for me.   The hard part is landing the fish in the midst of a crowd of spin fishermen.   They *will* take you into your backing.   And if you haven’t been there before, you’ll be amazed at the crowds.   Even if you don’t fish there (and I recommend you don’t), drive through downtown Pulaski and check out the insane mobs lining the banks there.   It’s a zoo.   Oh yeah – 8 wt. or 9 wt. E-mail me if you want more info. Joe F.

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Up to Pulaski, NY, I think the first weekend in October.  I’m the lone first timer of the bunch (they’ve been going for about 6 years now) so I’m not exactly sure where we’ll be.  I’ll get some more detailed info and let you know, maybe we can meet there.  Since I’ll be only one with a flyrod, in the bunch, it would be great to have someone to head to the fly only section with. Natty

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll be going on a trip to the Salmon River in October Yo Natty.   Me too.   But which Salmon R?   When In Oct? Joe F. (me: NY; 13, 14, 15)

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(1) Cabela has a 5-pc 8wt stowaway with 96% graphite for $80. (2) Natl Sports Supply has a "Gallatin" 5-pc 9wt (or 10wt) IM6 pack rod with removable fighting butt for $119.  I bought one of these and like it.  Medium action. http://877icefish.safeshopper.com/80/213.htm?672 The Gallatin is said to be corrosion resistant.  I found nothing on it that attracts a magnet. Ken (to reply via email remove "zz" from address)

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I’ll be going on a trip to the Salmon River in October

Yo Natty.   Me too.   But which Salmon R?   When In Oct? Joe F. (me: NY; 13, 14, 15)

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Thanks for the input Bob.  Funny, the Cabela’s rep told me they were moderate action rods (what I prefer) which makes your input even more valuable since I really don’t like stiff/very fast rods.  I would have been very disappointed had I purchased the Stowaway only to find it’s too fast for my taste. Thanks again. Natty

If you prefer a moderate action, take a look at the St. Croix Avid series. I have a 6wt. and really like the way it casts. They are also fairly inexpensive. A friend of mine has an 8wt Sage DS 2, which he loves. I’ve never thrown it though, so can’t comment. Scott

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I have an 8wt Stowaway that I bought primarily to use for Silvers on Kodiak. I have not taken it fishing yet, but am impressed with the overall fit, finish and quality, and the way it casts. It is however a very fast (stiff) action that may not be everyone’s cup of tea. Bob Weinberger

Thanks for the input Bob.  Funny, the Cabela’s rep told me they were moderate action rods (what I prefer) which makes your input even more valuable since I really don’t like stiff/very fast rods.  I would have been very disappointed had I purchased the Stowaway only to find it’s too fast for my taste. Thanks again. Natty

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The 8wt Stowaway I got has an attached fighting butt -= appr 1" long. I don’t know if the metal fittings are actually anodized, but those on the reel seat appear to have a corrosion resistant coating (birds-eye maple insert). I call the action fast, but its different than my fast IMX which has most of its flex near the tip.  Though the Stowaway does not flex as readily as my old IM6 rods, the flex comes much further down the blank.  Given Cabela’s liberal return policy, I suggest you order one & try it yourself. The only thing I don’t like about it is that it has a half wells handle that tapers down to a fairly slim diameter.  Since I have quite large hands, I prefer a full wells – especially on larger rods. Bob Weinberger BTW I first flyfished for trout (more years ago than I care to remember) in what I believe is your neck of the woods – the gorge section of the Raritan.

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I have an 8wt Stowaway that I bought primarily to use for Silvers on Kodiak. I have not taken it fishing yet, but am impressed with the overall fit, finish and quality, and the way it casts. It is however a very fast (stiff) action that may not be everyone’s cup of tea. Bob Weinberger

Bob I don’t see a picture of the 8 wt. on Cabelas site.  Does it have a fighting butt and anodized for the salt? Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I don’t see a picture of the 8 wt. on Cabelas site.  Does it have a fighting butt and anodized for the salt?

Peter,  it does have a fighting butt attached (not removeable, or at least not on mine 8 wt stowaway, anyway), and I don’t think it is anodized, either. — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot

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I have an 8wt Stowaway that I bought primarily to use for Silvers on Kodiak. I have not taken it fishing yet, but am impressed with the overall fit, finish and quality, and the way it casts. It is however a very fast (stiff) action that may not be everyone’s cup of tea. Bob Weinberger

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll be going on a trip to the Salmon River in October but don’t have any fly tackle heavier than a 6 wt.  I’ll need to pick something up in the 8-9 wt. range but since I’ll most likely only use the heavy setup a few times a year I don’t feel like dropping a ton of $$ on it.  Use would be Coho, Steelhead, very occasionally Stripers and maybe Weakfish. There have been numerous posts praising the Cabela’s Stowaway rods but I don’t recall if any were for the 8 wt. I’m not even sure if the Stowaway is practical for this application…don’t see why not though. Anyone out there who has used the Stowaway 8 wt I would appreciate your comments on the rod. If the Stowaway is deemed to not be a practical choice for this application the others I’m considering are the Sage DS2 890 (8wt, 9ft) and Orvis Clearwater 908(9ft, 8wt).  Opinions on these are welcome also. Thanks, Natty

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I’ll be going on a trip to the Salmon River in October but don’t have any fly tackle heavier than a 6 wt.  I’ll need to pick something up in the 8-9 wt. range but since I’ll most likely only use the heavy setup a few times a year I don’t feel like dropping a ton of $$ on it.  Use would be Coho, Steelhead, very occasionally Stripers and maybe Weakfish. There have been numerous posts praising the Cabela’s Stowaway rods but I don’t recall if any were for the 8 wt. I’m not even sure if the Stowaway is practical for this application…don’t see why not though. Anyone out there who has used the Stowaway 8 wt I would appreciate your comments on the rod. If the Stowaway is deemed to not be a practical choice for this application the others I’m considering are the Sage DS2 890 (8wt, 9ft) and Orvis Clearwater 908(9ft, 8wt).  Opinions on these are welcome also. Thanks, Natty

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Question:

OK, I found Molunkus.  It’s about 50 miles east of where we go, east of Millinocket.  I know there’s a lot of guides and at least one fly shop in Millinocket.  Try Toute’s Fly Shop in Millinocket (207-723-5442).  Or the Maine Guide Association listings at http://www.maineguides.org/company.html Good luck! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stan — Thanks for the report.  I am going to be in that area next week — in Molunkus, ME <whereever that is!).  I’m a beginning fly fisherman, but I’m making the trip with a bunch of spin fisherman.  Did you notice if there were any guide services in the area?  Did you flyfish for bass at all?? Thanks again, Craig

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I spent the last week in the beautiful country just outside Baxter State Park in north central Maine.  If you are not interested in details, here’s the summary:  weather was ideal, water temps in the rivers and ponds was between 60 and 64 degrees F, a 6 inch native landlocked salmon on a dry fly is much more fun than a 12" stocked rainbow, moose are really dumb looking. WEATHER The usual daily high was just over 70 F.  High puffy clouds in a perfect blue sky.  The wind would not pick up until 9AM and would stop by 8:30 PM. During the day the wind was pretty constant making canoeing very difficult on the bigger lakes – very big whitecaps were common.  We had one rainy day on Wednesday but the steady rain didn’t start until mid afternoon. HATCHES Spring was cold and rainy so the hatches are at least a week later than normal. Caddis, caddis, caddis.  There was virtually nothing going on top on the ponds or the South Branch Penobscot in the mornings.  A few Hendricksons and the occasional caddis.  Very few mayflies.  We saw lots of black caddis (body and wings) around the ponds but very few in the Penobscot.  Those were usually light tan wings with a brownish-gray body.  One night I pulled a small yellow stonefly out of the air but we didn’t see any on the water. We picked up salmon on almost every kind of caddis dry we had regardless of body color, although a light tan wing and light brown body seemed to work best.  My best fly was a tan foam bodied elk hair caddis with a bleached elk wing and a cdc underwing.  Size 12-14.  The nightly caddis hatch on the Penobscot was amazing – the adults were migrating up river in a continuous stream.  Looking up it looked like a snowstorm.  On the roads there were so many caddis bodies they were kicking up like dust.  Awesome.  And the salmon fishing was awesome because of that. We saw a few caddis on Nesowadnehunk Lake but also the beginning of the big yellow mayfly hatch (size 6, maybe a kind of hexagenia).  That hatch should peak next week.  The brookies were suckers for any big yellow fly. SCENERY World class beauty.  The mountains of Baxter are always in the background wherever you go.  We saw gorgeous sunsets lighting up Katahdin from Nesowadnehunk.  The Penobscot is probably the most scenic river I’ve ever fished. FISH The area is noted for landlocked salmon and brookies.  Not the giant brookies like in the Rapid River, but the pond brookies go up to 18 inches. We mostly saw brookies in the 6-10 inch range.  There are also togue in the bigger lakes (lake trout, we didn’t fish for them), and splake (a sterile brookie/togue hybrid) in the ponds.  My friends caught a couple of splake about 19 inches on trolled wooly buggers in the pond we camped on.  The big story is the landlocked salmon (people call them landlocks or just salmon). The Penobscot in that area is a tail water fishery below the Ripogenus Dam. The big salmon were hard to find last week – we saw a couple in the 16 inch range, one 18 and one 20.  Most were little guys in the 10-12 inch range and a lot in the 6-8 inch range.  They were loving elk hair caddis all week even in the morning when nothing was coming off.  We had a little action on caddis larva and emergers in the daytime.  In general the fishing was fair until about 10AM and then it pretty much shut off until the nightly hatch started at about 7PM.  The nightly caddis hatches were awesome.  There were salmon rising all over the river in every area we fished.  The area was pretty busy but we didn’t have trouble finding fishable stretches where there were no other people. WILDLIFE Moose everywhere and lots of snowshoe hares.  We had one big bull moose who refused to get off the road.  We had the Jeep within 10 feet of him and he just wouldn’t give us room.  After about 15 minutes he decided we were boring and loped off into the woods.  We saw a couple of eagles and an osprey, a black backed woodpecker, loons, mergansers, and one cormorant. I found fresh bear tracks along the river one morning but we didn’t spot any bears.  Found coyote tracks and scat at one lake. ON THE WATER I tried float tubing for the first time on this trip.  I will remember to check for wader leaks the next time.  I had a pinhole leak in the butt of my waders from resting on a rock earlier in the day and within an hour I was floating around with a gallon of water down each leg.  But it as fun, and it certainly is easier to stay put than in a canoe. I also tried fishing from a kayak on this trip.  My friend Steve had brought his Wilderness Systems Pungo and I really liked it.  It was plenty big enough for this big guy and it handled great.  I was able to cruise effortlessly on some big lakes in a  good wind.  Very comfortable, but I would want to insulate the floor the next time – the water was cold.  I am definitely shopping for a fishing kayak before I get a float tube. Three of us took one morning off from fishing to paddle the Lobster River into Lobster Lake, purportedly the ‘most beautiful lake in Maine’.  The ‘river’ is a deep wide flat water – it flows in and out of Lobster Lake depending on the level of the Penobscot.  The day we went it seemed not to be flowing at all.  Two of us were in my cruising canoe and Steve was in the Pungo.  He paddled probably 25% faster than us – I was very impressed. The river is gorgeous and has lots of waterfowl to watch.  Lots of moose, including a cow with twin calves that just watched us paddle through.  The moose calves were a lot lighter than the adults – a light tan, like a white tail deer. Lobster Lake has sandy beaches which is rare in Maine.  We paddled out to a long beach with a 90 foot long white pine we could use as a bench.  Even the driftwood in Maine is special!  Spent about an hour soaking in the sunshine just digging the view.  Mount Katahdin was lit up to the east and Mount Kisco was to the south.  You could walk out about 100 yards and only be hip deep – a great swimming beach for kids.  We were the only people on the lake.  Lots of animal signs on the beach including deer, moose, coyote and raccoon tracks. BUGS Like the hatches, the blackflies were delayed this year.  every time the wind stopped they were on us.  The parking lot at Kokadjo on the Roach River was the worst.  We didn’t get many bites though – they were a bit sluggish. The mosquitoes were out in force every morning and in the evenings. No-see-ums were out all the time.  We didn’t have much trouble out on the water, but we had to really hustle getting geared up. SUMMARY We already booked our cabin for next year. –Stan

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Craig: Well, I’ve never heard of that place, so I can’t help.  Do you know what waters you will be near?  If you’re planning on bass, maybe you are heading for the upper Kennebec or Grand Lake Stream?  We didn’t get near any smallmouth water at all, it’s all salmon and brookies where we were.  If you are going to be anywhere near Greenville I would recommend contacting the Maine Guide and Fly Shop at PO Box 1202, Greenville, Maine 04441 207 695-2266.  Nice people.  Nice shop. –Stan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stan — Thanks for the report.  I am going to be in that area next week — in Molunkus, ME <whereever that is!).  I’m a beginning fly fisherman, but I’m making the trip with a bunch of spin fisherman.  Did you notice if there were any guide services in the area?  Did you flyfish for bass at all?? Thanks again, Craig

Response:

Stan — Thanks for the report.  I am going to be in that area next week — in Molunkus, ME <whereever that is!).  I’m a beginning fly fisherman, but I’m making the trip with a bunch of spin fisherman.  Did you notice if there were any guide services in the area?  Did you flyfish for bass at all?? Thanks again, Craig – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I spent the last week in the beautiful country just outside Baxter State Park in north central Maine.  If you are not interested in details, here’s the summary:  weather was ideal, water temps in the rivers and ponds was between 60 and 64 degrees F, a 6 inch native landlocked salmon on a dry fly is much more fun than a 12" stocked rainbow, moose are really dumb looking. WEATHER The usual daily high was just over 70 F.  High puffy clouds in a perfect blue sky.  The wind would not pick up until 9AM and would stop by 8:30 PM. During the day the wind was pretty constant making canoeing very difficult on the bigger lakes – very big whitecaps were common.  We had one rainy day on Wednesday but the steady rain didn’t start until mid afternoon. HATCHES Spring was cold and rainy so the hatches are at least a week later than normal. Caddis, caddis, caddis.  There was virtually nothing going on top on the ponds or the South Branch Penobscot in the mornings.  A few Hendricksons and the occasional caddis.  Very few mayflies.  We saw lots of black caddis (body and wings) around the ponds but very few in the Penobscot.  Those were usually light tan wings with a brownish-gray body.  One night I pulled a small yellow stonefly out of the air but we didn’t see any on the water.  We picked up salmon on almost every kind of caddis dry we had regardless of body color, although a light tan wing and light brown body seemed to work best.  My best fly was a tan foam bodied elk hair caddis with a bleached elk wing and a cdc underwing.  Size 12-14.  The nightly caddis hatch on the Penobscot was amazing – the adults were migrating up river in a continuous stream.  Looking up it looked like a snowstorm.  On the roads there were so many caddis bodies they were kicking up like dust.  Awesome.  And the salmon fishing was awesome because of that. We saw a few caddis on Nesowadnehunk Lake but also the beginning of the big yellow mayfly hatch (size 6, maybe a kind of hexagenia).  That hatch should peak next week.  The brookies were suckers for any big yellow fly. SCENERY World class beauty.  The mountains of Baxter are always in the background wherever you go.  We saw gorgeous sunsets lighting up Katahdin from Nesowadnehunk.  The Penobscot is probably the most scenic river I’ve ever fished. FISH The area is noted for landlocked salmon and brookies.  Not the giant brookies like in the Rapid River, but the pond brookies go up to 18 inches. We mostly saw brookies in the 6-10 inch range.  There are also togue in the bigger lakes (lake trout, we didn’t fish for them), and splake (a sterile brookie/togue hybrid) in the ponds.  My friends caught a couple of splake about 19 inches on trolled wooly buggers in the pond we camped on.  The big story is the landlocked salmon (people call them landlocks or just salmon). The Penobscot in that area is a tail water fishery below the Ripogenus Dam. The big salmon were hard to find last week – we saw a couple in the 16 inch range, one 18 and one 20.  Most were little guys in the 10-12 inch range and a lot in the 6-8 inch range.  They were loving elk hair caddis all week even in the morning when nothing was coming off.  We had a little action on caddis larva and emergers in the daytime.  In general the fishing was fair until about 10AM and then it pretty much shut off until the nightly hatch started at about 7PM.  The nightly caddis hatches were awesome.  There were salmon rising all over the river in every area we fished.  The area was pretty busy but we didn’t have trouble finding fishable stretches where there were no other people. WILDLIFE Moose everywhere and lots of snowshoe hares.  We had one big bull moose who refused to get off the road.  We had the Jeep within 10 feet of him and he just wouldn’t give us room.  After about 15 minutes he decided we were boring and loped off into the woods.  We saw a couple of eagles and an osprey, a black backed woodpecker, loons, mergansers, and one cormorant.  I found fresh bear tracks along the river one morning but we didn’t spot any bears.  Found coyote tracks and scat at one lake. ON THE WATER I tried float tubing for the first time on this trip.  I will remember to check for wader leaks the next time.  I had a pinhole leak in the butt of my waders from resting on a rock earlier in the day and within an hour I was floating around with a gallon of water down each leg.  But it as fun, and it certainly is easier to stay put than in a canoe. I also tried fishing from a kayak on this trip.  My friend Steve had brought his Wilderness Systems Pungo and I really liked it.  It was plenty big enough for this big guy and it handled great.  I was able to cruise effortlessly on some big lakes in a  good wind.  Very comfortable, but I would want to insulate the floor the next time – the water was cold.  I am definitely shopping for a fishing kayak before I get a float tube. Three of us took one morning off from fishing to paddle the Lobster River into Lobster Lake, purportedly the ‘most beautiful lake in Maine’.  The ‘river’ is a deep wide flat water – it flows in and out of Lobster Lake depending on the level of the Penobscot.  The day we went it seemed not to be flowing at all.  Two of us were in my cruising canoe and Steve was in the Pungo.  He paddled probably 25% faster than us – I was very impressed.  The river is gorgeous and has lots of waterfowl to watch.  Lots of moose, including a cow with twin calves that just watched us paddle through.  The moose calves were a lot lighter than the adults – a light tan, like a white tail deer. Lobster Lake has sandy beaches which is rare in Maine.  We paddled out to a long beach with a 90 foot long white pine we could use as a bench.  Even the driftwood in Maine is special!  Spent about an hour soaking in the sunshine just digging the view.  Mount Katahdin was lit up to the east and Mount Kisco was to the south.  You could walk out about 100 yards and only be hip deep – a great swimming beach for kids.  We were the only people on the lake.  Lots of animal signs on the beach including deer, moose, coyote and raccoon tracks. BUGS Like the hatches, the blackflies were delayed this year.  every time the wind stopped they were on us.  The parking lot at Kokadjo on the Roach River was the worst.  We didn’t get many bites though – they were a bit sluggish. The mosquitoes were out in force every morning and in the evenings. No-see-ums were out all the time.  We didn’t have much trouble out on the water, but we had to really hustle getting geared up. SUMMARY We already booked our cabin for next year. –Stan

Response:

Well, they looked like a kind of hexagenia to me, and I know people call them that, but we found little info on the web about hexes really existing in Maine.  Maybe they are really an Eastern Green Drake, but they sure looked true yellow to me.  The Nesowadnehunk inlet is a muddy bottom so it makes sense.  We just call them ‘the big yellow mayfly’ so we all know it’s time to get out the size sixers.  And the hatch my friends saw there last June sounded incredible – so many fish rising it sounded like a steady

rain. Some folks here call them Green Drakes but it’s a misnomer, hexes it is. When they come off in good numbers the ponds look like it’s raining bowling balls. I had the good fortune to hit them two summers ago on thistle pond (just north of Nesowadnehunk a mile or so). I went up 8 nights in a row to fish the hatch, simply awesome fishing. I’m currently scheduled to go back up the 7th, they should be in full hatch then. Flyfish

Response:

Well, they looked like a kind of hexagenia to me, and I know people call them that, but we found little info on the web about hexes really existing in Maine.  Maybe they are really an Eastern Green Drake, but they sure looked true yellow to me.  The Nesowadnehunk inlet is a muddy bottom so it makes sense.  We just call them ‘the big yellow mayfly’ so we all know it’s time to get out the size sixers.  And the hatch my friends saw there last June sounded incredible – so many fish rising it sounded like a steady rain.

______  What a great descriptive Stan.  Good work! MrG/American Sportsman http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjun00.html  LATEST BAMBOO FACTS "the saga continues"

Response:

Well, they looked like a kind of hexagenia to me, and I know people call them that, but we found little info on the web about hexes really existing in Maine.  Maybe they are really an Eastern Green Drake, but they sure looked true yellow to me.  The Nesowadnehunk inlet is a muddy bottom so it makes sense.  We just call them ‘the big yellow mayfly’ so we all know it’s time to get out the size sixers.  And the hatch my friends saw there last June sounded incredible – so many fish rising it sounded like a steady rain.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry for the bogus reply…I hit the wrong damn button…my eyes must be going… Stan those big yellow mays, if turely size 6, are indeed the Hex hatch…pant pant… Thistle pond here I come…pant pant… beautiful area around Baxter, makes me wish I never quit up at Great Northern Paper (Millinocket) where I had two beautiful years of living on the edge of nowhere… Flyfish

Response:

Sorry for the bogus reply…I hit the wrong damn button…my eyes must be going… Stan those big yellow mays, if turely size 6, are indeed the Hex hatch…pant pant… Thistle pond here I come…pant pant… beautiful area around Baxter, makes me wish I never quit up at Great Northern Paper (Millinocket) where I had two beautiful years of living on the edge of nowhere… Flyfish

Response:

Thanks, Stan….  I believe we will be fishing on the Penobscot mostly.  The owner of the ‘camp’ where we are staying says that there is access to the landlocked salmon on parts of the river, but I got the impression that I’d mostly be fishing for smallmouths.  Thanks again, Craig – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, I found Molunkus.  It’s about 50 miles east of where we go, east of Millinocket.  I know there’s a lot of guides and at least one fly shop in Millinocket.  Try Toute’s Fly Shop in Millinocket (207-723-5442).  Or the Maine Guide Association listings at http://www.maineguides.org/company.html Good luck! Stan — Thanks for the report.  I am going to be in that area next week — in Molunkus, ME <whereever that is!).  I’m a beginning fly fisherman, but I’m making the trip with a bunch of spin fisherman.  Did you notice if there were any guide services in the area?  Did you flyfish for bass at all?? Thanks again, Craig

Response:

I spent the last week in the beautiful country just outside Baxter State Park in north central Maine.  If you are not interested in details, here’s the summary:  weather was ideal, water temps in the rivers and ponds was between 60 and 64 degrees F, a 6 inch native landlocked salmon on a dry fly is much more fun than a 12" stocked rainbow, moose are really dumb looking. WEATHER The usual daily high was just over 70 F.  High puffy clouds in a perfect blue sky.  The wind would not pick up until 9AM and would stop by 8:30 PM. During the day the wind was pretty constant making canoeing very difficult on the bigger lakes – very big whitecaps were common.  We had one rainy day on Wednesday but the steady rain didn’t start until mid afternoon. HATCHES Spring was cold and rainy so the hatches are at least a week later than normal. Caddis, caddis, caddis.  There was virtually nothing going on top on the ponds or the South Branch Penobscot in the mornings.  A few Hendricksons and the occasional caddis.  Very few mayflies.  We saw lots of black caddis (body and wings) around the ponds but very few in the Penobscot.  Those were usually light tan wings with a brownish-gray body.  One night I pulled a small yellow stonefly out of the air but we didn’t see any on the water.  We picked up salmon on almost every kind of caddis dry we had regardless of body color, although a light tan wing and light brown body seemed to work best.  My best fly was a tan foam bodied elk hair caddis with a bleached elk wing and a cdc underwing.  Size 12-14.  The nightly caddis hatch on the Penobscot was amazing – the adults were migrating up river in a continuous stream.  Looking up it looked like a snowstorm.  On the roads there were so many caddis bodies they were kicking up like dust.  Awesome.  And the salmon fishing was awesome because of that. We saw a few caddis on Nesowadnehunk Lake but also the beginning of the big yellow mayfly hatch (size 6, maybe a kind of hexagenia).  That hatch should peak next week.  The brookies were suckers for any big yellow fly. SCENERY World class beauty.  The mountains of Baxter are always in the background wherever you go.  We saw gorgeous sunsets lighting up Katahdin from Nesowadnehunk.  The Penobscot is probably the most scenic river I’ve ever fished. FISH The area is noted for landlocked salmon and brookies.  Not the giant brookies like in the Rapid River, but the pond brookies go up to 18 inches. We mostly saw brookies in the 6-10 inch range.  There are also togue in the bigger lakes (lake trout, we didn’t fish for them), and splake (a sterile brookie/togue hybrid) in the ponds.  My friends caught a couple of splake about 19 inches on trolled wooly buggers in the pond we camped on.  The big story is the landlocked salmon (people call them landlocks or just salmon). The Penobscot in that area is a tail water fishery below the Ripogenus Dam. The big salmon were hard to find last week – we saw a couple in the 16 inch range, one 18 and one 20.  Most were little guys in the 10-12 inch range and a lot in the 6-8 inch range.  They were loving elk hair caddis all week even in the morning when nothing was coming off.  We had a little action on caddis larva and emergers in the daytime.  In general the fishing was fair until about 10AM and then it pretty much shut off until the nightly hatch started at about 7PM.  The nightly caddis hatches were awesome.  There were salmon rising all over the river in every area we fished.  The area was pretty busy but we didn’t have trouble finding fishable stretches where there were no other people. WILDLIFE Moose everywhere and lots of snowshoe hares.  We had one big bull moose who refused to get off the road.  We had the Jeep within 10 feet of him and he just wouldn’t give us room.  After about 15 minutes he decided we were boring and loped off into the woods.  We saw a couple of eagles and an osprey, a black backed woodpecker, loons, mergansers, and one cormorant.  I found fresh bear tracks along the river one morning but we didn’t spot any bears.  Found coyote tracks and scat at one lake. ON THE WATER I tried float tubing for the first time on this trip.  I will remember to check for wader leaks the next time.  I had a pinhole leak in the butt of my waders from resting on a rock earlier in the day and within an hour I was floating around with a gallon of water down each leg.  But it as fun, and it certainly is easier to stay put than in a canoe. I also tried fishing from a kayak on this trip.  My friend Steve had brought his Wilderness Systems Pungo and I really liked it.  It was plenty big enough for this big guy and it handled great.  I was able to cruise effortlessly on some big lakes in a  good wind.  Very comfortable, but I would want to insulate the floor the next time – the water was cold.  I am definitely shopping for a fishing kayak before I get a float tube. Three of us took one morning off from fishing to paddle the Lobster River into Lobster Lake, purportedly the ‘most beautiful lake in Maine’.  The ‘river’ is a deep wide flat water – it flows in and out of Lobster Lake depending on the level of the Penobscot.  The day we went it seemed not to be flowing at all.  Two of us were in my cruising canoe and Steve was in the Pungo.  He paddled probably 25% faster than us – I was very impressed.  The river is gorgeous and has lots of waterfowl to watch.  Lots of moose, including a cow with twin calves that just watched us paddle through.  The moose calves were a lot lighter than the adults – a light tan, like a white tail deer. Lobster Lake has sandy beaches which is rare in Maine.  We paddled out to a long beach with a 90 foot long white pine we could use as a bench.  Even the driftwood in Maine is special!  Spent about an hour soaking in the sunshine just digging the view.  Mount Katahdin was lit up to the east and Mount Kisco was to the south.  You could walk out about 100 yards and only be hip deep – a great swimming beach for kids.  We were the only people on the lake.  Lots of animal signs on the beach including deer, moose, coyote and raccoon tracks. BUGS Like the hatches, the blackflies were delayed this year.  every time the wind stopped they were on us.  The parking lot at Kokadjo on the Roach River was the worst.  We didn’t get many bites though – they were a bit sluggish. The mosquitoes were out in force every morning and in the evenings. No-see-ums were out all the time.  We didn’t have much trouble out on the water, but we had to really hustle getting geared up. SUMMARY We already booked our cabin for next year. –Stan

Response:

Question:

Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Response:

Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Downstream, IMHO. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Bob, I don’t know that there’s a difinitive answer to your question, but I prefer to keep the staff on my upstream side. It simply feels more stable to me. George Adams

Response:

Well Bob Rose, you got two different answers/opinions: <<Downstream, IMHO. <<Bob, I don’t know that there’s a difinitive answer to your question, but I prefer to keep the staff on my upstream side. It simply feels more stable to me. I favor the downstream, because as George says, "it simply feels more stable".  I can lean into it if need be and if I slip, it is down- stream from me so that I can get a better purchase if I lose it.   Having said this, I *have* used it up-stream, but in "kinder, gentler" water.  <g Dave L.

Response:

Wading in difficult water takes planning. the important thing is to hold it in your right hand – if right handed, for the best grip – then keep the staff to the right side of your body. If the water flows from right to left and you are right handed . Putting the staff downstream will put it across your body – you can trip on it then. Wading very heavy water you’ll  want to lean into the wading staff for extra support as you move one foot – get a firm footing – move the other foot – get a firm footing and then move the staff. – you’ll be leaning into it downstream to minimize the force of the current. In such situations orient yourself downstream and crab walk side ways heading across and somehwat downstream.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Response:

Let’s make that three different answers/opinions Dave, I am right handed and prefer to keep the wading staff in my right hand at all times. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Well Bob Rose, you got two different answers/opinions: <<Downstream, IMHO. <<Bob, I don’t know that there’s a difinitive answer to your question, but I prefer to keep the staff on my upstream side. It simply feels more stable to me. I favor the downstream, because as George says, "it simply feels more stable".  I can lean into it if need be and if I slip, it is down- stream from me so that I can get a better purchase if I lose it. Having said this, I *have* used it up-stream, but in "kinder, gentler" water.  <g Dave L.

Response:

I favor the downstream, because as George says, "it simply feels more stable".  I can lean into it if need be and if I slip, it is down- stream from me so that I can get a better purchase if I lose it.   Having said this, I *have* used it up-stream, but in "kinder, gentler" water.  <g Dave L.

In heavy current, always downstream for balance no matter what the hand.  On rocky, uneven bottoms in slower water, the right hand for strength.  On sharply sloping bottoms (a.k.a. the wing dam,) down slope side.  I also use it to climb in and out of the water on steep banks (right hand.) Peter

Response:

Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Well, if you’re wading, the directions that mainly seem to matter are upstream and downstream. And, well, if through some herculean (‘fortenberrian?’) effort, you manage to fall upstream, you’re soon enough going to be headed downstream with that whole current thing going on. So, for me, it stands to reason, in lieu of exceptional circumstances, you’d pretty much want that baby sticking out on your downstream side. Can’t we all just get along? – sid

Response:

Peter Charlles: <<I also use it to climb in and out of the water on steep banks (right hand.) And a machete in your left hand to cut through the mountain laurel.  <g Dave L.

Response:

Hello Bob: Always put your staff up stream and be wary of wading down stream. Sometimes you can wade down current but find you cannot wade back up current. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Response:

My problem with a staff has always been what to do with the damn thing when I’m not using it — hang it over my back (it slips off), let it float (it bangs on rocks and tries to trip me). Always glad to have it when I need it though…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Bob: Always put your staff up stream and be wary of wading down stream. Sometimes you can wade down current but find you cannot wade back up current. Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Response:

_______  Wading Staff can be replaced with a Wading Cane.  These have a crook in the handle which can be draped over one arm, a shoulder or hooked into the top of a set of chest waders.   There is no such thing as the ‘carefree’ wading staff or cane.  But a wading cane does offer different ways to hang or carry them out of the way. Mr. G.

Response:

Palmer writes:

<<My problem with a staff has always been what to do with the damn thing when I’m not using it — hang it over my back (it slips off), let it float (it bangs on rocks and tries to trip me). Always glad to have it when I need it though… I know a ffer who has wrapped and taped foam over the handle, and the staff floats harmlessly out of his way.  The  collapsable type are easy to fold up when not in use, but a pain to take the time to do so.  It’s a big trade-off — if you need it, you will have to put up with a little inconvenience.  In the water I fish, I can’t live without it.  <g Dave L.

Response:

In heavy current, always downstream for balance no matter what the hand.

Crap! As soon as you lift the staff from the bottom, you’re toppled off balance by the current and away off downstream! Thrilling stuff, but not what you’re after. In really heavy current: lean INTO the stream; both hands on the pole if necessary. If you have to ’shoot the rapids’, best to do it feet forwards. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Tony,    That was  spoken like a man who has learned the art of wading fast water the hard way. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In heavy current, always downstream for balance no matter what the hand. Crap! As soon as you lift the staff from the bottom, you’re toppled off balance by the current and away off downstream! Thrilling stuff, but not what you’re after. In really heavy current: lean INTO the stream; both hands on the pole if necessary. If you have to ’shoot the rapids’, best to do it feet forwards. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

I usually keep mine high up in the air flailing as I’m falling – usually in 1 foot or less of water.  Funny, I bought the thing so I wouldn’t fall in, but I have only fallen in when I’m using a staff. Maybe I’m less careful when using a staff? When I’m not falling I like to use it on both sides – the side opposite the foot I’m moving- and I push on the staff to balance back to that foot. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Response:

Crap! As soon as you lift the staff from the bottom, you’re toppled off balance by the current and away off downstream! Thrilling stuff, but not what you’re after. In really heavy current: lean INTO the stream; both hands on the pole if necessary. If you have to ’shoot the rapids’, best to do it feet forwards. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Some of us make sure our feet are planted before we lift our staffs. Peter

Response:

Tony Deacon: Crap! As soon as you lift the staff from the bottom, you’re toppled off balance by the current and away off downstream! Thrilling stuff, but not what you’re after. In really heavy current: lean INTO the stream; both hands on the pole if necessary. If you have to ’shoot the rapids’, best to do it feet forwards. Tight Lines,

Crap back at ya, Tony.  <g  With it down stream you *are* leaning into the current, both hands on the pole if necessary.  You are pushing yourself into the current with it down-stream.  If the pole should slip up-stream, you’re gonna have a tuff time replanting it. Not so on a down stream plant.  Besides, as Peter has said, make sure you feet are planted before you lift the staff (regardless it is up or down-stream). Dave L.

Response:

Tony Deacon: Crap! As soon as you lift the staff from the bottom, you’re toppled off balance by the current and away off downstream! Thrilling stuff, but not what you’re after. In really heavy current: lean INTO the stream; both hands on the pole if necessary. If you have to ’shoot the rapids’, best to do it feet forwards. Tight Lines, Crap back at ya, Tony.  <g  With it down stream you *are* leaning into the current, both hands on the pole if necessary.  

I read something not long ago about wading staff use and it made what seemed at the time to be a pretty good argument for upstream use. I’ll try to remember where I read it. — Charlie…

Response:

Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording?

I can’t imagine it makes much difference so long as it keeps you right side up, but I use mine on the downstream side, usually. Joe F.

Response:

Tony,   That was  spoken like a man who has learned the art of wading fast water the hard way.

You bet Ernie! I have ‘dan grade’ in falling in, which I’ve practised since an early age. It doesn’t bother me much (I swim like a fish) and sometimes I quite like the adventure. But as I get older, priorities change and I’m not quite so keen on a ducking in Scotland in February. Besides, fishing time is precious (and expensive) and I’ve better things to be doing than admiring the view as I float off towards Aberdeen or the Moray Firth. Back to topic: I use lead shot loaded ski poles as wading staffs, with an over shoulder lanyard attached to the TOP of the pole handle (where the wrist strap of a ski pole normally attaches). This way, the staff can ‘trail’ unobtrusively out-of-the-way when not needed. Wading staffs usually have the lanyard attached below the handle, which creates an irritating angle between lanyard and handle that catches the fly line/fences/bushes/gate bars, etc. I can catch up my staff easily without looking because the lanyard is exactly the right length: I just hook my thumb under the lanyard; push out my arm to full stretch and close my hand. The grip of the pole is always right there. I’ll say this again: in REALLY strong current, you need the full advantage of the triangular base formed by your feet and the wading staff, with the staff and your centre of gravity UPSTREAM of your feet. You should be leaning on the pole and INTO the current. Every placement of foot or staff has to be careful, but you can’t afford to dither. Once you lose it, it’s very hard to recover … and then you’re off sightseeing. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Tony,    Sounds like an effective outfit, thanks for the tips.  I might add that I find Cross Country Ski Poles are better to use for wading staffs because they are longer. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2

<snip I use lead shot loaded ski poles as wading staffs, with an

over shoulder lanyard attached to the TOP of the pole handle (where the wrist strap of a ski pole normally attaches). This way, the staff can ‘trail’ unobtrusively out-of-the-way when not needed. Wading staffs usually have the lanyard attached below the handle, which creates an irritating angle between lanyard and handle that catches the fly line/fences/bushes/gate bars, etc. I can catch up my staff easily without looking because the lanyard is exactly the right length: I just hook my thumb under the lanyard; push out my arm to full stretch and close my hand. The grip of the pole is always right there. I’ll say this again: in REALLY strong current, you need the full advantage of the triangular base formed by your feet and the wading staff, with the staff and your centre of gravity UPSTREAM of your feet. You should be leaning on the pole and INTO the current. Every placement of foot or staff has to be careful, but you can’t afford to dither. Once you lose it, it’s very hard to recover … and then you’re off sightseeing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tony Deacon

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Tony,   Sounds like an effective outfit, thanks for the tips.  I might add that I find Cross Country Ski Poles are better to use for wading staffs because they are longer.

Yes, those are the ones I use too. TL, Tony Deacon

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Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Down stream side with a landyard long enought to just reach the handle of the staff.   I would buy old ski poles and pull the bottom gizmo off, then drill a hole in the handle for the landyard……it works great, and cheap. Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Before you buy.

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Question:

check out www.walleyecentral.com and use the message board and chat room……all kinds of help – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just started fishing from a boat and have a few questions. 1. How do you tell how deep your line is?  If the fish finder says that the fish are at 40 feet how do you know when your line is forty feet down? 2. What is a reasonable dept to fish without going to downriggers. 3. What are planner boards for?  How do you rig them? Thanks

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We can get lines down in excess of 60 feet without the use of down riggers. The advantage of down riggers is you will have a short lead and it will take less time to bring in the fish and reset. The disadvantage to down riggers is for fish like Lake erie walleye they tend to shy away unless they are down deep because the boat traffic spooks the fish. The other disadvantage is cost. Presently we are down around 50 feet using ripcord line and 0 dispel on planar boards and you can add weight if you would like to keep leads under 200 feet. You can also try 1 dipseys and they will go to 50 feet on mono and over 70 on rip cord or braided wire. The reason we use planar boards is so we can get lines away from the boat into water where the fish have not been spooked. The other advantage is you can run upto 12 poles off the planar boards without tangling. That is enough for upto 6 people. When the weather gets rough you have to run less but you can run regular dipseys . We typically run 8 planar boards an 6 dipseys when the fish are deep and when the fish are high we run 10 planar boards and 4 dipseys. Essentially planar boards are two boards connected together so when attached to a line at front of boat several feet above the water they will pull to side of boat. this allows you to let lines out back and then attach the lines to a planar clip which is typically an alligator clip with rubber pads or you can use a shower curtain and rubber bands and wrap the rubber band around the line. The secret is to get the proper rubber band. The first couple times by some from Patco but then you can go to office supply store and buy rubber bands much less expensive in bulk. When you attach the line to the clip and to the planar board line as you let additional line out it will slide down the board line when it is just above the water stop it and then set the next line leave a 20 -30 foot space in between and then when the fish hits it will swing to back of the boat. If you use a plug or diving device like a jet dive you have to release the lure by reeling don until the line is taught and slap the handle of the pole the shock will break the rubber band if you are using ripcord or wire line with mono it is more difficult because mono tends to stretch. Then let line swing to back of boat to avoid tangles and reel in. if you are running 0 dipseys off the planar boards you must release the line from the board the same way but then real the slack and release the dipsey with a firm tug and then real right away. there are different techniues for different things you use. I hope this helps. Captain Bryce Seymour Fishing has been good to very good. The fish are moving daily in past few weeks they have moved from 12 miles out into 6 miles out in one day after a storm but then as water settled down they started moving out again. Within a few days they were at 12 miles out. The main school is off of Geneva and slightly east about 20 miles out. The captains out of Fairport have another school out west of Fairport so you can see there is not just one place to fish but most people are going off shore. I main problem has been a lot of sheep head being caught with the walleye which lowers the catches. The Fairport captains are catching between 20-40 fish but would have more if they could not have to reset lines for sheep head so often. Similar numbers out of Geneva. Watermelon is a hot color and the Geneva captains tend to use more worm harnesses while the Fairport tends to use spoons as much as possible. I have also heard of a man who was taking a floating j plug putting it on his down rigger and sending it to the bottom and then release the j-plug and about half the time he would catch a nice walleye while the plug was rising to the surface. The most prominent methods have been using 0 dipseys off ripcord off the boards. Set one side at lets say 140 , 160, 180, 200 and the other at the same but put an ounce of weight in front if you see the weighted side working more than the non weighted side then look at adding an ounce or two of weight. The advantage of this technique over wire line is you can keep the leads under 200 feet so you can catch the fish and reset faster than if your setting a line back 320 feet on wire. Ripcord is a little more forgiving than wire when raping on planar boards but can still be a nuisance if you get a good tangle. Captain Bryce Seymour http://www.chartercaptain.com/hooker/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just started fishing from a boat and have a few questions. 1. How do you tell how deep your line is?  If the fish finder says that the fish are at 40 feet how do you know when your line is forty feet down? 2. What is a reasonable dept to fish without going to downriggers. 3. What are planner boards for?  How do you rig them? Thanks

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I have just started fishing from a boat and have a few questions. 1. How do you tell how deep your line is?  If the fish finder says that the fish are at 40 feet how do you know when your line is forty feet down? 2. What is a reasonable dept to fish without going to downriggers.   3. What are planner boards for?  How do you rig them? Thanks

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    Planner boards float on the surface of the water and pull your lure and line out to the side of the boat like a kite in the wind. Your lure then trails behind the planer board and swims at the depth that it was designed for and depending on it’s speed in the water, length of line out and size of the line. Instructions as how to rig them up are included with the boards.     There are devices that can be added directly to your line that will dive towards the bottom (pink lady is one). There depth depends on their size, weight, speed, type lure used, length of line used for trolling and size of the line.     If you want to troll deep without a downrigger, you can use lead core line. Use the 17 lb lead core line. The stronger lead core line has the same amount of lead in it but more nylon thread so though it is stronger (about 30 lbs) it will not sink as well. Or use steel line. I found that I could get down to about 70 feet deep with steel line without using heavy weights. Keep a record of all the setups you use when trolling and when you feel that you touch bottom, check the sonar for the depth, check your trolling speed and type of equipement used etc and mark it all down in a note book. The next time you want to fish at that particular depth with that particular lure setup you will know what to do. This is how old time experienced trollers knew where their lure was when fishing. Add the fact that they memorized the bottom structure, after a few years of snagging bottom, catching fish and watching the successful fishermen for tips, helped in their fishing success.     So if you want to fish at 40 feet, rig up a line, troll over a depth of 40 feet and see what you have to do to touch bottom. Note what you did and then use the same technique the next time you see fish suspended at 40 feet.     Becoming a good troller is more difficult and takes longer than becoming a good fly fisherman. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just started fishing from a boat and have a few questions. 1. How do you tell how deep your line is?  If the fish finder says that the fish are at 40 feet how do you know when your line is forty feet down? 2. What is a reasonable dept to fish without going to downriggers. 3. What are planner boards for?  How do you rig them? Thanks

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Question:

I’m looking to camp in RM. nat’l park this summer with the grandsons. Any recommendations for streams in or near the park? Thanks, Terry

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There are several fly shops in Estes Park check with one of those about current fishing conditions.  You can find good fishing on both sides of the continental divide.  The runoff is expected to be down a little bit from past years so the fishing should be pretty good starting the end of June in the streams and rivers.  Hope this information helps you, if you have further questions contact me at: Scot’s Sporting Goods in Estes Park. Suzanne

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Question:

Hi, My son is very keen to take up fly fishing but the problem is that I (his dad) knows nothing about the right equipment to buy. He intends to fish for trout and salmon on both lakes and rivers in Scotland. What should I be looking for? Any advice greatly appreciated. Thanks

Hi- You might want to take a look at the GORP article entitled Tackle Time for Kids (http://www.gorp.com/gorp/publishers/countryman/fis_kids.htm) which includes some tips on buying your child their first fly rod. Hope you find what you are looking for! Regards, Diane GORP – http://www.gorp.com GORP Fishing = http://www.gorp.com/gorp/activity/fishing.htm

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_____A simple cane pole and a can of worms, a pond full of gills and a couple of old fashioned boloney sandwiches topped off with a can of Coke.  You’ll make a fisherman of him, I promise. Mr. G.

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Hi, I think its great you’ve taken the time to research this a bit first ! For a good all round outfit, start with an 8′6" rod for a 7 wgt. line and a reel that is for the same. The rod and the reel and line should all be 7 or 8 weight – this combination is perfect for your situation as it will be just right for most trout in Scotland, but will handle salmon, too. Bill Curry Tight Lines Guide Service http://www.tightlines.ns.ca – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, My son is very keen to take up fly fishing but the problem is that I (his dad) knows nothing about the right equipment to buy. He intends to fish for trout and salmon on both lakes and rivers in Scotland. What should I be looking for? Any advice greatly appreciated. Thanks

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Hi, My son is very keen to take up fly fishing but the problem is that I (his dad) knows nothing about the right equipment to buy. He intends to fish for trout and salmon on both lakes and rivers in Scotland. What should I be looking for? Any advice greatly appreciated. Thanks

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I’d suggest trying to find a local trout unlimited or Salmon unlimited fishing group.  Your son will need a mentor to help him learn how to flyfish.  I bet the local fishing shop will know of some local clubs to help your son.  Maybe you’d like to join too and share a hobby with your son.  

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the problem is that I (his dad) knows nothing about the right equipment to buy.

First of all, dad, don’t go uot and buy top of the line stuff. You’re son won’t need it. Go down to your local FF shop and ask for a beginner kit that has everything- rod, reel, flyline, leader, tippet, etc. Cortland makes several sets that are real serviceable. Second, enroll him in a local FF club. He’ll learn the right way to use his equipment, and meet a lot of people who will be able to help him in his new found sport. And with luck, You will catch the bug, too. Feel free to e- mail me if you have further questions. Best regards, Frank. Frank Longtine 1984 Ford F-150 1973 Rokon Trail Breaker 1994 Specialized Stumpjumper Two good feet

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Question:

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Check this cool site out guys!!!! http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Academy/2187 regards….

Come on we love fishing , we doesn’t are on alt.sex or rec.sex or any crab like that This newsgroup is for people who enjoy the outdoors, and of course we love to do fly fishing, we don’t want people like you arround. — Simon Zlachevsky http://www.scc.puc.cl/~szlachev/ Trata a los demas como te gustaria que te trataran a ti!                 /)                       O      /(                       |     /                       |   /                      /                 /             **                         ‘ () ‘                    ” /”                               UuUuUuUuUuU  Fly fishing, enjoy the outdoors, release the fish

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