Question:

Build your first one starting with a blank.  You might look at and research http://www.gink.com/shopcart/products/gehrke_rods_2.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have made a decision. I will attempt to build my own bamboo rod! There I said it, it’s official. Now where do I start? I found one site by Bruce Conner. Very informative and inspiring. Some of the other sites seemed to lean toward substantial investments of tools. Bruce briefly describes home made and common tools that will do the job. For those of you that make your own rods, think back. What do you wish you had known then, what you know now? Where can I be pointed. Realize I have absolutely nothing, no knowledge or tools. Green as they come. Thanks boys, Jamie Here is Bruce’s site. http://kalypso.cybercom.net/~bconner/index.html?57,11

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I have made a decision. I will attempt to build my own bamboo rod! There I said it, it’s official. Now where do I start? I found one site by Bruce Conner. Very informative and inspiring. Some of the other sites seemed to lean toward substantial investments of tools. Bruce briefly describes home made and common tools that will do the job. For those of you that make your own rods, think back. What do you wish you had known then, what you know now? Where can I be pointed. Realize I have absolutely nothing, no knowledge or tools. Green as they come. Thanks boys, Jamie Here is Bruce’s site. http://kalypso.cybercom.net/~bconner/index.html?57,11

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Jamie, Welcome to the addiction that is bamboo.  Like all other things fly fishing, once you’ve got the bug, it’s hard to shake.  I myself have been into this thing for about nine months now and, although I haven’t built a rod yet, have found it to be a rewarding and challenging pastime.  One thing that helps is to have a lot of patience and, at times, persistence. I feel that, like fly fishing or tying, you certainly can make some considerable monetary investments when getting into this hobby.  And there is nothing wrong with those purchases if your budget allows.  But that certainly doesn’t need to be the case if you are working with a limited budget.  There is a wealth of information on the internet and in books on building your own tools and equipment, as well as info about building the rods themselves.  Certainly Bruce’s site is a _great_ starting point.  I think that it was one of the first sites I came across, if not the first. Another site that I have found very helpful is the Rodmakers’ listserve site: http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/ .  It’s packed with helpful information.  Especially the listserve archives.  If you have any questions on a bamboo rodbuilding topic, check the archive first, it’s probably in there.  You will probably want to join the mailing list as well.  There is a link on the site. I would also recommend checking out some of the many helpful books that are out there.  You don’t even have to buy them, if you can find them in your local library.  A library near me has a copy of Everett Garrison’s book, although I’m starting to realize that this it a stroke of luck.  But you will probably end up buying one anyway: it’s a good thing to have on hand. I have read the Garrison book (_very_ detailed, but tends to be a bit anal), and I own the George Maurer book, which is excellent.  Another very good book that I have read is the one by Wayne Cattanach.  He also has videos to accompany the book, which are fun to watch. You also might want to check around and see if there are any builders near you.  You might be surprised. I think the most helpful advice I can give you as far as equipment goes is this:  if you can afford a set of planing forms, BUY THEM!  Don’t get me wrong, it is possible to build your own.  There is an excellent site by a Thomas Penrose that gives detailed instructions on doing so: http://www.geocities.com/penr0295/forms.htm .  I am building my own forms based on these plans.  But be warned, this is the part that requires a lot of patience and persistence.  Plus it’s not a whole lot of fun.  On the plus side, I have learned some things about metalworking.  But if you can afford it, buy a set.  There are people out there offering them for around $350, which isn’t too bad at all considering the amount of work it takes to build them. Anyway, good luck!  If you have any questions (and I’m sure you will) post them to the Rodmakers’ listserve.  Or drop me an email.  I’d be glad to offer what limited knowledge I can. HTH. Keith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have made a decision. I will attempt to build my own bamboo rod!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Another site that I have found very helpful is the Rodmakers’ listserve site: http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/ .  It’s packed with helpful information.  Especially the listserve archives.  If you have any questions on a bamboo rodbuilding topic, check the archive first, it’s probably in there.  You will probably want to join the mailing list as well.  There is a link on the site. I think the most helpful advice I can give you as far as equipment goes is this:  if you can afford a set of planing forms, BUY THEM!  Don’t get me wrong, it is possible to build your own.  There is an excellent site by a Thomas Penrose that gives detailed instructions on doing so: http://www.geocities.com/penr0295/forms.htm .  I am building my own forms based on these plans.  But be warned, this is the part that requires a lot of patience and persistence.  Plus it’s not a whole lot of fun.  On the plus side, I have learned some things about metalworking.  But if you can afford it, buy a set.  There are people out there offering them for around $350, which isn’t too bad at all considering the amount of work it takes to build them.

Jamie, Keith gives you some good tips here. These are two excellent resources. The Penrose page is really good on certain aspects of the process.  I think the best thing to get up to speed is to read the ENTIRE archives on the rodmakers site. It took me about a month of going at it off and on but it will give you the history of a lot that is going on with the listserve now and will answer a lot of questions better than in the books (but will not answer all- so get the books). You will be way more knowledgeable at the end of that and will be able to make a lot of informed decisions about how you want to approach it, what to buy and what to make, etc. etc. Also, be sure to print out any part of the archives that strikes you as useful as you go through it and start a notebook. This will help when you remember a great tip but can’t find it with the archives search engine (Frank Stetzer’s page). Good luck. Jon

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have made a decision. I will attempt to build my own bamboo rod! There I said it, it’s official. Now where do I start? I found one site by Bruce Conner. Very informative and inspiring. Some of the other sites seemed to lean toward substantial investments of tools. Bruce briefly describes home made and common tools that will do the job. For those of you that make your own rods, think back. What do you wish you had known then, what you know now? Where can I be pointed. Realize I have absolutely nothing, no knowledge or tools. Green as they come. Thanks boys, Jamie Here is Bruce’s site. http://kalypso.cybercom.net/~bconner/index.html?57,11

Jamie, http://www.teleport.com/~gord/canelink.shtml This will get you started. Kiyu

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Question:

This has been a very different Spring, pre-runoff season here in Colorado. My local river is fishing more like it normally does in late Summer than during a typical Spring. They are beginning to draw water for the farmers and runoff hasn’t started. Weather has been warm and the river is VERY low and warm for this time of year. Hatches have started but are limited in variety. BWO’s, heavy on cloudy days and sporadic on sunny ones. Midges pretty consistent. No caddis or stoneflies. Just like late summer. I really enjoy this type of fishing. All day on cloudy days and in the morning and late in the day on sunny ones, the fish move into the heads of the pools and feed. They are surface feeding as well as chasing nymphs, often leaving wakes while feeding in water less than a foot in depth. This is slow, meticulous fishing that suits my unasked for "maturity."  Stalking, crawling, and creeping into casting position without spooking the fish is the first requirement for success. This can frequently take up to ten minutes, resting the fish after each short crawl. Long tapered leaders that can turn over a long light tippet are a help as is a slow rod that will cast a long leader with little or no line beyond the tip. Slow careful approaches that get you close enough for a short cast with very little line on the water are much more effective than longer casts that can line cruising fish. In situations that require longer casts, I really like the new, for me, Cortland Clear Creek line with its long front taper.     Many of these fish are cruising the slack shallow water picking off whatever they find instead of setting up feeding stations like the fish feeding in areas with current. These are the toughest ones. It’s hard to predict where they will feed next and the lack of current give them a long look at your fly. Any line slap near them, sends them scurrying off leaving a wake, often putting the other fish down. The fish feeding in the tongues of current are much easier. The current helps hide imperfect presentations and the fish don’t have the time to scrutinize your fly. The rule of fishing the fish closest to you really applies in this situation. Spooking a fish near you will often results in a ruckus that will put down the other fish or even send them all off to deeper water. Playing a hooked fish without spooking the rest takes some luck and some strategy. I find that steady sideways pressure leading the fish away from the others and toward deeper water immediately after the strike SOMETIMES works. If it doesn’t, you generally have two choices, rest the fish and hope they’ll return to feeding or look for a new pod of fish. I’ve caught some surprisingly large fish during these shallow water feeding sprees. Catching a 20+ inch fish in water this shallow is a kick! Willi

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Couple that with the fact that even the cheap graphite rods are dream tackle compared with what I used to use when I started, and there is no more argument for an expensive rod.

I’ve noticed that about many sports.  The people who’ve done it the longest don’t feel they need the fancy gear. At the rate of technological advance experienced in recent years a "great"(expensive) rod (or anything else for that matter) of 10 years ago is probably comparable to a decent model today. With some notable exceptions.   55 T-bird 58-61 Vette 67 – 69 Camaero 69-71 Chevelle 71 455 Vette 455 Olds Oh, but those are all pre oil crisis cars. Never mind…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Couple that with the fact that even the cheap graphite rods are dream tackle compared with what I used to use when I started, and there is no more argument for an expensive rod. I’ve noticed that about many sports.  The people who’ve done it the longest don’t feel they need the fancy gear. At the rate of technological advance experienced in recent years a "great"(expensive) rod (or anything else for that matter) of 10 years ago is probably comparable to a decent model today. With some notable exceptions. 55 T-bird 58-61 Vette 67 – 69 Camaero 69-71 Chevelle 71 455 Vette 455 Olds

Don’t forget the 401c" Jeep Wagoneer-quadratrack, all wheel lock in the glove box, a few twiddles and tweeks and you have an over 500hp leviathon. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, but those are all pre oil crisis cars. Never mind…

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Hello all from a longtime lurker. I agree with the cheapest rod to get the job done.  Here is my wonderful challenge: My wife has really taken to flyfishing and wants a rod and reel of her own instead of borrowing from others.  I completely understand.  We want to spend time hiking and fishing, so I am looking for a 8-9′ 4-6wt. 4 pc. rod for western ID and WA fishing.  I am currently using the Cabela’s willow creek combo.  I really like it and it is still available for $90.  Should I get this, or is there another cheaper rod I can get for us? Thanks and considering myself blessed! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     It’s like my 3wt if you remember ,the pretty little one with the wood insert except it is a graphite reel seat. It’s a Cabela’s special from flyer code #85-1001 stock#85-31-3111 it’s the rod from the youth combo-try it with that 3wt reel and line you use and see if it won’t do a passable job. If not, extra spool and line for 5wt for those big brookies you keep penned in back of your store. In JUNE !                                                          John Popp

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all from a longtime lurker. I agree with the cheapest rod to get the job done.  Here is my wonderful challenge: My wife has really taken to flyfishing and wants a rod and reel of her own instead of borrowing from others.  I completely understand.  We want to spend time hiking and fishing, so I am looking for a 8-9′ 4-6wt. 4 pc. rod for western ID and WA fishing.  I am currently using the Cabela’s willow creek combo.  I really like it and it is still available for $90.  Should I get this, or is there another cheaper rod I can get for us? Thanks and considering myself blessed!     It’s like my 3wt if you remember ,the pretty little one with the wood insert except it is a graphite reel seat. It’s a Cabela’s special from flyer code #85-1001 stock#85-31-3111 it’s the rod from the youth combo-try it with that 3wt reel and line you use and see if it won’t do a passable job. If not, extra spool and line for 5wt for those big brookies you keep penned in back of your store. In JUNE !                                                          John Popp

    My recommendation is the youth(see above) matched with the winchester reel(now on sale at $35.00) or one of the combos in the Cabela’s fly fishing catalog. I’m not in any way connected with them but I find the best deals there for the beginner. By the way mine arrived in a plastic rod case with sock. The case sells for 9.95 so the rod (priced at 29.95) actually cost $20 bucks. The case is big enough that I have the 5wt youth, 3wt three forks, and 7wt 11′ 3 piece Abu Garcia with sox all stored in it. The case fits nicely in the truck even with tool box.                                                           John Popp                                                         in Sanford Fl.

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One great choice is the Cortland Fairplay, available at WalMart for $39.95.    I bought one for my girlfriends boys, and it is great!  It is a bit soft, but practically casts itself.   I taught a buddy to cast with it, and he would rather use it than one of my better (faster) rods. Bob Scott

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Walt, that has been my opinion for some time.  When I go down I want a rod and reel I can toss to one side and worry about what happens to me, not some expensive equipment. — Ernie Harrison

It may sell for $300 or Less and this BastardBamboo may be cheap to buy, but it will stand up to anything ever made in America.  Sorry Ernie.  You’re going to have t drown and for cheap stuff at that. George

Question:

Are there any likely hatches in south and central Vt on the last weekend in April?

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With this being a mild year w/ relatively low water look for olives (#18-20), Paraleps, aka Blue Quills (#16-18), or Hendricksons and Red Quills (#12-14). Southern streams will see the hatches first. Good Luck

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Are there any likely hatches in south and central Vt on the last weekend in April?

Joe, A reader provided you with some good info in the previous message.  To add to that, the Quill Gordon hatch can be very prolific and is one those of us up here in the north will tend to get excited about as there is not much of Quill Gordon hatch up north.  Quill Gordons will follow the little black caddis, early stones, then bwo’s and blue quills and then Quills!  You will generally need water around 52 to see Quill Gordons.  Hendrickson (female) and the Red Quill(male) usually are not seen until May when water temps are reaching 55-58.  However as the previous reader mentioned water is low up here and the run-off is over.  Mild sunny days are lifting the water temps everyday.   The bwo’s and blue quills will come off in the high 40’s.   If I have not confused you come up with some parachute adams sizes 12-18 to cover the quills, bwo’s and blue quills and a Hendrickson pattern ( we almost always use a parachute and trailing shuck except during a spinner fall.  Beadheaded nymphs are the call. Email me if you have any questions. James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service 1997 Guide of the Year Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

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Question:

Rhythm of the Rise thought I  would pass on a tip that I picked up from one of Doug Swisher

Question:

Can you buy fising liscense in the Park of do you have to get them outside the Park. Also what do they cost?   Thanks for the info.  Good Fising  Rick

Hi Rick Yes you can buy fishing licenses in the Park and also outside the park like at the River’s Edge in Bozeman.  Many other fly shops also sell them.  I’m not sure what a day license costs but my season license was $20.00 Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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License in Yellowstone is $10 for the week and can be purchased at ranger stations or hamilton stores in the park David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can you buy fising liscense in the Park of do you have to get them outside the Park. Also what do they cost?   Thanks for the info.  Good Fising  Rick

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License in Yellowstone is $10 for the week and can be purchased at ranger stations or hamilton stores in the park David Can you buy fising liscense in the Park of do you have to get them outside the Park. Also what do they cost?   Thanks for the info.  Good Fising  Rick

Its $10 for 10 days.  

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Can you buy fising liscense in the Park of do you have to get them outside the Park. Also what do they cost?   Thanks for the info.  Good Fising  Rick

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Question:

I fished the St. Joe river in early July and caught many good-sized cutthroat. The St. Joe is about 1.5 hrs SW of C d’A. Would be interested to find out how the other locations turned out.

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Looking for fly fishing information in the Coeur D’ Alene, Idaho area. Lakes, streams, etc. Will be in the area in mid August. Thanks, in advance.

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Looking for fly fishing information in the Coeur D’ Alene, Idaho area. Lakes, streams, etc. Will be in the area in mid August. Thanks, in advance.

I would head for the San Poil river over south of Republic Wa. It is about an hour from there.

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The North Fork Coeur d’Alene River is reportedly yielding more cutthroat this season, and a little more variety in sizes.   For the past few years there would be about two fish per mile, both 18".   Now there are some other year classes starting to show some recovery.

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: Looking for fly fishing information in the Coeur D’ Alene, Idaho : area. Lakes, streams, etc. Will be in the area in mid August. The Idaho state record for pike has been broken once or twice a year for the last decade. All of the fish have come from Lake Coeur d’Alene, mostly on bait in the spring and from the "chain of lakes" on the east side. If you can locate them in August, should be fun. Most of the boat activity on the lake itself will be trollers looking for chinook salmon. Try some alternative waters: 1. the Spokane River, between C d’A and Spokane (check with Fins and Feathers in C d’A for specifics) 2. the Kootenai (great tailwater fishery between Libby MT and Bonners Ferry ID) – one of the shop/ guide operations is on-line; try 3. The Pend Oreille system (check with Panhandle Cast n Blast – real name – in Hayden Lake); this watershed includes Priest Lake and River — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m goin to Watertown NY over labor day. If anybody could put me on to a Musky guide in the area I’d be thrilled. I’m an old Atlantic salmon/trout flyfishing guide myself and certainly would be willing to share my expertise (?? ) with anyone out there in exchange for a trip. Also, my brother has a boat in S. Florida and would be willing to reciprocate in a similar manner. Cal "dreamin of skee" Harris

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I’m goin to Watertown NY over labor day. If anybody could put me on to a Musky guide in the area I’d be thrilled. I’m an old Atlantic salmon/trout flyfishing guide myself and certainly would be willing to share my expertise (?? ) with anyone out there in exchange for a trip. Also, my brother has a boat in S. Florida and would be willing to reciprocate in a similar manner. Cal "dreamin of skee" Harris

Call Bill & Jack’s Marina in Fishers Landing at 315-686-3592. Bill has been there for many many years and knows the river and guides. He isn’t a guide himself but I’m sure he could recommend a good one. Jack Paul Hereford, Pa 18056

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Hey, how ’bout some content in this post? You sparked my interest!

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Hey, how ’bout some content in this post? You sparked my interest!

This item sparked my interest too, so I’ll start.   I recently tried a new product for saltwater tying.  It’s colored hot glue (pink, orange, amber, green and many others available) for tying Mother of Epoxy (Glue) type bonefish and permit flies.  It is really easy to use this stuff.  Just add bead chain eyes to a saltwater hook.  Drop on a wad of hot glue, dip in water for 3-5 seconds, and it’s cool enough to mold with your hands.  If you don’t like the way the head turned out, you can dip it in very hot water and remold.   This colored hot glue is available at the craft store for aboout a tenth of the price of the fly shop (as are doll eyes and lots of other good stuff for saltwater flies). I recently went to Belize and a hot glue fly (regular tan glue) with a tuft of tan bucktail was red hot for bonefish. John Woodling Sacramento, CA

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Hey John , great post last month’s saltwater fly mag had a guy making these molds and cranking out some gorgeous deceivers…. 1. did you use a mold yourself? 2. Can you share the Namebrand and bottle size of the    stuff you are using? 3. what size hooks are you using 1/0-3/0?? 4. what do you use for Sacramento stripers? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -thanks?

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last month’s saltwater fly mag had a guy making these molds and cranking out some gorgeous deceivers…. 1. did you use a mold yourself?

That’s the beauty of hot glue, you don’t need a mold, you just mold it with your fingers.   For deceiver heads, I use epoxy.  It dries a lot clearer and harder.  You don’t need a mold, but you do need a slow rpm motor to turn these after you apply the epoxy (5 minutes) until it hardens. 2. Can you share the Namebrand and bottle size of the

   stuff you are using? I don’t recall the brand name, but they are standard size glue sticks. The fly shop also has a glue gun, and like everything else in a fly shop, it costs twice what the same thing costs in the hardware store. 3. what size hooks are you using 1/0-3/0??

For mother of glue flies for bonefish I use 4’s and 6’s 4. what do you use for Sacramento stripers?

I haven’t fished for them, but a lot of the Dan Blanton patterns are probably good. <<   John K. Woodling   < Sacramento, CA

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writes: 4. what do you use for Sacramento stripers? I haven’t fished for them, but a lot of the Dan Blanton patterns are probably good. <<   John K. Woodling   <

I’v had good luck with chartreuse patterns for clear water (like surf or fast moving tidal rivers) and yellow patterns for muddy water (like back bays). I noticed that blue and white also works in either environment, but I was using clousers, not deceivers. HighHooks-n-TightLines,       Jose

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Quoting jwoodling1 from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly     2. Can you share the Namebrand and bottle size of the     stuff you are using?     I don’t recall the brand name, but they are standard size glue sticks.     The fly shop also has a glue gun, and like everything else in a fly    shop, it costs twice what the same thing costs in the hardware store. This sounded like a great idea so I stopped by the arts & crafts store on the way home.  I picked up a low temp glue gun for $3.29 and a pack of 49 glue sticks in a variety of colors for $4.49.  Will give it a try this weekend. Jim in Southern California

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This sounded like a great idea so I stopped by the arts & crafts store on the way home.  I picked up a low temp glue gun for $3.29 and a pack of 49 glue sticks in a variety of colors for $4.49.  Will give it a try this weekend. Jim in Southern California

I wrote a short piece for American Angler back in 1986 or so, about using hot glue guns for fly tying. I still use them occasionally, for big flies (like some salt water flies). But there are drawbacks. The faster the hot glue hardens (higher melting temps) the stronger the glue is, and the harder it is to use, becuase the stuff sets up so fast. Low temperature glues are easier to work with, but the damn flies melt right in you fly box on a hot day. The only practicle solution is to use high temp glues, and learn how to work very fast.   Good hardware stores (the ones that cater to tradesmen) carry a variety of hot glue sticks, with faster and slower, hotter and cooler melting temperatures. Steer clear of "clear-colored" sticks. Clear hot glue sticks were developed for florists, for obvious reasons, but clear hot glue sticks have the lowest bonding strength. —

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: Quoting jwoodling1 from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly :     2. Can you share the Namebrand and bottle size of the :     stuff you are using? :     I don’t recall the brand name, but they are standard size glue sticks. :     The fly shop also has a glue gun, and like everything else in a fly :    shop, it costs twice what the same thing costs in the hardware store. : This sounded like a great idea so I stopped by the arts & crafts store on the : way home.  I picked up a low temp glue gun for $3.29 and a pack of 49 glue : sticks in a variety of colors for $4.49.  Will give it a try this weekend. So did I.   Bryan : Jim in Southern California

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Question:

Quoting ab258 from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly     I recently posted an inquiry about blanks to which the overwhelming     response was that for quality and price I couldn’t beat St. Croix.    now the only problem is finding a good source of them. Any suppliers    out there who would like to either E-mail a price list or send a    catalogue please do so.

  Why don’t you buy them directly from the factory.  That’s what I do.   St. Croix publishes two catalogs, one devoted to finished rods and another   comprised of blanks and components.  They are located in Park Falls, WI   and I understand are the largest American producers of private label rods.

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Phone number for St. Croix = 715-762-3225, FAX 715-762-3293

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Barlow’s Tackle Shop Phone: 214-231-5982 fax: 214-690-4044 Box 830369 Richardson, TX 75083 They do have St Croix blank in their catalog. I have the catalog here, email me if you want to know the blank prices. Good luck, Thi Nguyen

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Mike, I’m sure you’ll get a response from someone regarding the St. Croix rods, but if not, let me know, I have one of their catalogs at home and can send you their address……sorry  I don’t have it handy now.  Helen

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Quoting ab258 from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly     I recently posted an inquiry about blanks to which the overwhelming     response was that for quality and price I couldn’t beat St. Croix.    now the only problem is finding a good source of them. Any suppliers    out there who would like to either E-mail a price list or send a    catalogue please do so. Try the Angler’s Workshop.  THey carry a full line of St. Croix blanks as well as Sage, Orvis, Powell, Talon, Laminglas…  Contact them for a catalog:         Anglers Workshop         P.O. Box 1010         1350 Atlantic Ave.         Woodland, Wa. 98674         206-225-9445 Jim in Southern California

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I recently posted an inquiry about blanks to which the overwhelming response was that for quality and price I couldn’t beat St. Croix. now the only problem is finding a good source of them. Any suppliers out there who would like to either E-mail a price list or send a catalogue please do so. Mike Zelman RR #1 Head of Jeddore Nova Scotia CANADA B0J 1P0 —

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I recently posted an inquiry about blanks to which the overwhelming response was that for quality and price I couldn’t beat St. Croix. now the only problem is finding a good source of them. Any suppliers out there who would like to either E-mail a price list or send a catalogue please do so. Mike Zelman RR #1 Head of Jeddore Nova Scotia CANADA B0J 1P0

Northeast Anglers and Outdoor Shops Inc. 21 Main Street East, Grimsby, Ontario, Canada. L3M 1M7 1-800-563-FISH They carry St,. Croix rods so they may also carry blanks. Keep your stick on the ice. Thos.

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