Question:

Maybe so, but the skill is in knowing *how* to ask. Or *who*, I suppose. <g — Charlie… and *WHEN*!

"Welcome to the Little Wayno School of Scoring (We Never Close)" /daytripper ("Lesson 1: Ask Early And Often"

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"The difference between a good nymph fisherman and a great nymph fisherman is often one split shot." Origin unknown

"There’s a fine line between flyfishing and standing in water looking stupid" The Same Guy

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe so, but the skill is in knowing *how* to ask. Or *who*, I suppose. <g — Charlie… and *WHEN*! "Welcome to the Little Wayno School of Scoring (We Never Close)" /daytripper ("Lesson 1: Ask Early And Often"

        and knowing how to play that martin d-28 while you lay out "hello cowgirl in the sand" don’t hurt all that bad, either…         yfitons         wayno

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Maybe so, but the skill is in knowing *how* to ask. Or *who*, I suppose. <g — Charlie…

and *WHEN*! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

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  I fine that flyfishermen are like golfers. Sooner or later, the guy next to   you will have a helpful suggestion. It may be about your cast, your flies,   your strategy…whatever. However, unlike golfers advice, this input is   usually welcomed and helpful. I’ve gotten alot of good advice over the years. Although this wouldn’t be the best advice I’ve gotten, it sticks in my head and serves as a reminder to be open minded and receptive to other peoples’ suggestions. I was fishing the stretch of my home river that I fish the most. I’ve been fishing it for over fifteen years and know it very well. I was fishing a riffle just upstream from a deep pool, when a young woman came up to me and informed me that there were some trout rising in the pool that she couldn’t reach because she only had on hipboots. It was the middle of a summer day and I was sure that the fish rising were the school of small Browns that are "always" rising in this pool. I thanked her and finished fishing the riffle I was working. I KNEW that they were just piddler fish rising and was going to continue working my way upstream but decided to give the rising fish a shot. To make a long story short, I ended up getting some very nice fish in the pool. Willi

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Though referring to a different venue – "It is always easier to beg forgiveness than get permission. "  - Adm. Grace Hopper Bob Weinberger

MUCH different venu.  Not only are there laws, try begging forgiveness from two 6′3" older brothers with attitudes and firearms! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

"Wayne" wrote… "if you don’t ask for it, you never will get it" Maybe so, but the skill is in knowing *how* to ask.

Practice, practice, practice. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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at the tender age of 16 from a young lady "if you don’t ask for it, you never will get it" — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Though referring to a different venue – "It is always easier to beg forgiveness than get permission. "  - Adm. Grace Hopper Bob Weinberger

Response:

"Wayne" wrote… "if you don’t ask for it, you never will get it" Maybe so, but the skill is in knowing *how* to ask.

Or *who*, I suppose. <g — Charlie…

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<SNIP . He suggested on my backcast to think "back and UP". <SNIP Actually, I said. "Think UP! -NOT- BACK!", ( That

Question:

<snip Nice read, Sam. — TL, Tim

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Howdy Sam     As a sometime resident of Pa. i have a camper in Coburn close to Penns Creek wife is from Scranton where would this lovely little stream be i would like to check it out. Email me if you want.                    Handyman Mike           Standing in a river waving a stick

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I finished up my summer vacation at my boyhood home in eastern Pennsylvania late in the evening of July 3. I planned to rise before dawn on Independence Day and fish my favorite little creek. [HISTORIC ASIDE] I fished this creek as a boy some twenty five years earlier. Then, it was at best, marginal water.  Smelly, appearing nearly devoid of anything alive, and in places, algae nearly choked the stream due to phosphate pollution from industry far upstream. But it had trout, and I could walk there. Twenty five years ago that’s all I needed. In the intervening years, I went off to college, moved several times, got married, and had several jobs. I visited the creek whenever I got back home. Never to fish, just to try to recapture some of those boyhood memories I guess.  Over the past 6 or 7 years, I noticed that the smell had gone and so did the algae. Not surprising, since the upstream industry, and all the related jobs, disappeared. That is why most of my contemporaries and I left the area in the first place. Over the past 3 years, I was able to follow stocking reports, Pennsylvania state water reports and even fishing reports via the internet.  The stream was definitely on the mend. In fact, recently it was supposed to be removed from the list stocked streams due to a "Class B or better designation, and sizable wild trout population" according to the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission (PAFBC). The decision to not stock was later reversed because of a public outcry. Knowing some of the history of this stream, and knowing some of the troubles of the PAFBC, I was skeptical to say the least. [END OF HISTORICAL ASIDE] Before dawn came and went (as it sometimes does) and I was still in bed. However, I was on the creek by 6:00am. It was already hot, opressively hot. I was to pay dearly for that extra hour of sleep. Should have gotten up at 4:30 like the alarm clock said. It was the tail end of week long 90+ degree streak. The water had a good flow but promised little relief from the heat. As I entered the water, I was pleasantly surprised by the cool press of my breathables against my bare legs.  Stream thermometer read 66 degrees, not too shabby! I waded upstream about 100 yards or so, and stood in an ankle deep riffle. I gazed upstream at a 50 yard stretch of knee deep flat water, with another riffle at the head. There were about a dozen fish rising in front of me.  I could not tell what they were feeding on, but I did notice that most of the bugs I saw were gray. So I tied on a #16 gray EHC. There were at least two fish between the biggest riseform and myself, and it was under a low hanging branch.  Not going to get that one. I decided to cast to the closest one, which I spooked after a few casts.  I crept forward to cast to the next one that was still feeding.  On the second cast, there was a kamakazee rise to my fly.  As I set the hook, I thought "little fish, big ones don’t crash that hard…probably not a trout anyway". I had it, or wait, did it have me? It was not quite the little fish I imagined. After a savage but brief fight, I brought a beautifully colored, fully finned, and yes, wild 15 inch brown trout to hand. After a quick and admiring look, I released it, and it darted upstream.  I was so happy I laughed out loud. I waited for about 15 minutes for the fish to start rising again, but they never did.  It was 7:45am, and the heat was intensifiying.  I briefly though of moving on upstream, but then thought I should just go home. Landing more fish on that day would make me no happier.

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Question:

I love fly fishing, Also love to fish for fluke i am wondering if anyone might have a few tips on fly patterns and the best way that has a chance in hooking up into a few fluke. I mostly fish from a boat of the Ct. shore. Thanks, Nat

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I read an article once about some guy in the northwest flyfishing for halibut.  He used a heavy rod and sinking line.  The fly was a streamer pattern.  For the life of me I can’t remember which mag but it was either Fly Rod and Reel, Flyfisherman, or American Angler. It might work for fluke.  Maybe with big sculpin that mimics a creek chub? My brother and I used to trap chubs off the dock at Giant’s Neck Beach and then drift them on fluke rigs off of Rocky Neck SP.  I haven’t done that in a long, long time….. Let me know how you do…..  And thanks for bringing back a few pleasant memories —

| I love fly fishing, Also love to fish for fluke i am wondering if anyone | might have a few tips on fly patterns and the best way that has a chance | in hooking up into a few fluke. | I mostly fish from a boat of the Ct. shore. | Thanks, Nat |

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Question:

Dave Whitlock offers some of his artwork free for use for non profit organisations.. have a look at www.davewhitlock.com.

Thanks, I inherited a bunch of those from the previous editor.  Now at least I know hwere they came from and can credit the source. Mu

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Dave Whitlock offers some of his artwork free for use for non profit organisations.. have a look at www.davewhitlock.com. Clark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve taken over newsletter duties for our local fishing club and I’m looking for photos or artwork of flies, fish, anglers, equipment, etc, that I can use as filler graphics when I have some empty space at then end of an article.  If you’ve got any then let me know.  I’ll send you a copy of the newsletter if I use your image. The kind of things that would be interesting are: sunset behind the silhouette of an angler, the head of a trout as it is being released, mayfly sitting on your rod, saltwater fly stuck into a piece of flotsam, you get the idea.  Something general enough that it can basically be placed anywhere without being related to a particular piece of text. Don’t worry, it won’t be for commercial use. Mu

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Mu,   I can send you a few trout and some green drake photos. How small a file size do you want them to be. Only have digitalized stuff around, however, no film.                          Tom L

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I’ve taken over newsletter duties for our local fishing club and I’m looking for photos or artwork of flies, fish, anglers, equipment, etc, that I can use as filler graphics when I have some empty space at then end of an article.  If you’ve got any then let me know.  I’ll send you a copy of the newsletter if I use your image. The kind of things that would be interesting are: sunset behind the silhouette of an angler, the head of a trout as it is being released, mayfly sitting on your rod, saltwater fly stuck into a piece of flotsam, you get the idea.  Something general enough that it can basically be placed anywhere without being related to a particular piece of text. Don’t worry, it won’t be for commercial use. Mu

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Question:

….Describe how to get non-blocking routing through a toriodal interconnect fabric of any dimension.

Phhht!  Too easy.  Get a bigger hammer.      :) Wolfgang no charge for this one

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*snip patent info*    Is the toxicity something we should be concerned with?

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*snip patent info*    Is the toxicity something we should be concerned with?

Anything with mineral oil in it is toxic.  If you drink mineral oil for instance, you will die, probably quite horribly.  Chucking even small amounts of mineral oil into the environment is a very bad thing to do. You may remember fairly recent scandals, especially in Italy, where Olive oil was "stretched" with mineral oil. Many people died horribly, others lost their sight, and had various other nasty things happen to them. Mineral oil is also a contact poison, and may cause dermatitis and other allergic reactions. Some products produced by the ethoxylation of Nonyl Phenol, Glycerine, and various other substances are used among other things as very high grade surgical soap. Eating this will cause severe and uncontrollable vomiting, will damage the stomach, throat, etc, and depending on the other ingredients may also be toxic. Chemical analyses are available for all the substances listed in the patent. Some are toxic, some are not. Quite a few are environmental pollutants ( Long chain, non bio-degradable molecules). Ethoxylated substances change their characteristics and properties quite radically as a result of polymerisation.  Phenol for instance is an extremely dangerous and potent poison in its raw state.  It would be necessary to read all the chemical  and property analyses of the substances concerned in order to determine the toxicity of any mixture based on them. If silica is added to the stuff, this implies that it is finely ground. When dry, ground silica dust is extremely dangerous, and is number one on the list of carcinogens.  In a wet mixture it is probably relatively harmless. Not to put to fine a point on it, I would not use the stuff. TL MC

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This is Ethene ( Common name Ethylene)  C2H4 The symbol above is the most common way of writing an ethylene molecule, known as a "monomer".  When polymerised this gives Polythene ( Poly Etyhlene)  which is a common thermoplastic. When combined with oxygen, it gives EO2  which is Ethylene Oxide, a highly reactive substance, which is a primary ingredient in the processes used to produce the ingredients of the stuff you sell, Gink and Xink.

On a lighter note, one of my favorite "vanity plates" to date was a simple sedan with the license plate C2H5OH (or something close to that, I can’t remember now).   It took me a while, but I eventually surmised the owner’s name was Ethel. Joe F.

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On a lighter note, one of my favorite "vanity plates" to date was a simple sedan with the license plate C2H5OH (or something close to that, I can’t remember now).   It took me a while, but I eventually surmised the owner’s name was Ethel.

That would be just C2H5. — Charlie…

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I would ask you all to refrain from answering this until Mr Gehrke does so. I have my reasons.

Might be too late now though.

Response:

—- It’s quite interesting how G alludes that Mike C’s posts are derogatory

towards US citizens.  I assume that this is supposed to drum up support for his "case". —- our envy of Mike Connor’s reputation and his considerable contribution to the world of flyfishing is obvious. —- Padishar Creel — George, do some actual research before you post so-called facts…it will save you some embarrassment later.

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 George, do some actual research before you post so-called facts…it will save you some embarrassment later.

Diagnosis, Doctor?

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 George, do some actual research before you post so-called facts…it will save you some embarrassment later. Diagnosis, Doctor?

—– Hmmm, as I stroke my Jungian beard, I would say the diagnosis would include a complex combination of personality and co-morbid Axis I disorders and for you laymen, please forgive the highly technical jargon, but the correct taxonomical nomenclature would be "Shit For Brains" <G. Padishar Creel — Mental health Expert of the Major Roffian Character Disorders

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Hmmm, as I stroke my Jungian beard, I would say the diagnosis would include a complex combination of personality and co-morbid Axis I disorders and for you laymen, please forgive the highly technical jargon, but the correct taxonomical nomenclature would be "Shit For Brains" <G.

—— As to an interesting link that may be of some relevance! http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe07.html —— Padishar Creel "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft…and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." –  Wernher von Braun

Response:

assume we are talking about fly fishermen.  Think we have two major groups. very rich with their float boat guides and trips to Chili  and the rural low income folks  who just have always fished because it is a way of life. The folks who amaze me are the governmental workers and the educators who seem to spend half their time fishing, and half their time posting on the internet.    Relative to income –some of us thought we were in the higher bracket, but due to recent stock market now find ourselves   trying to catch and eat. Indian Joe

Response:

OK. Since you decline to answer.  For a number of years I worked for ICI ( Imperial Chemical Industries ) in England. I possess a City and Guilds of London Certificate in chemical plant operation, ( With distinction ). and I was, among other things,  chief operator of the ethoxylation facility. I am not a chemist as such, but have a good basic knowledge of chemistry.( OK perhaps a little more than just "basic"), it was essential for my job at the time. I manufactured thousands of tons of the stuff which you are mixing and selling as your own invention.    H    H     I      I    C=C     I     I    H   H Usually written    H    H     I      I    C=C    —–    Addition polymerisation.     I     I    H   H This is Ethene ( Common name Ethylene)  C2H4 The symbol above is the most common way of writing an ethylene molecule, known as a "monomer".  When polymerised this gives Polythene ( Poly Etyhlene)  which is a common thermoplastic. When combined with oxygen, it gives EO2  which is Ethylene Oxide, a highly reactive substance, which is a primary ingredient in the processes used to produce the ingredients of the stuff you sell, Gink and Xink. Any chemist, or anybody with even a faint knowledge of chemistry would recognise it immediately. How remarkably strange that the "inventor" of a substance has no idea what is in it. Just to be absolutely certain I researched the US patent office.  Here is the extract. —- United States Patent  4,184,889 Gehrke  January 22, 1980 —- Fly, line and leader sinker composition Abstract A composition for application to fishing flies, lines and leaders to cause them to sink when placed in water. —- Inventors:  Gehrke; George E. (Drawer 1204, Salida, CO 81201) Appl. No.:  909667 Filed:  May 25, 1978 Current U.S. Class: 106/267; 43/4; 516/204; 516/DIG1 Intern’l Class:  C08L 091/00 Field of Search:  106/266,267,243 —- References Cited [Referenced By] —- U.S. Patent Documents 3526596 Sep., 1970 Kress et al. 252/52. 3872048 Mar., 1975 Brown 252/52. Foreign Patent Documents 995085 Jun., 1965 GB. Primary Examiner: Morris; Theodore Attorney, Agent or Firm: Wymore; Max L. —- Claims —- What is claimed is: 1. A composition of the matter to be applied to a fly, line or leader to cause same to sink below the surface of the water when cast by a fisherman which comprises about four parts by volume of a surface active agent consisting of the non-ionic reaction products of ethylene oxide with nonyl phenol, about one part by volume of sorbitan monolaurate and about ten parts by weight of a medium grade mineral oil blended together. 2. The composition of matter of claim 1 wherein the non-ionic reaction products of ethylene oxide with nonyl phenyl has a molar ratio of ethylene oxide in the adduct, of four. 3. The composition of matter of claim 1 including a small amount of cod liver oil and a silica thickener. 4. A method of treating a line or fly to promote sinking when cast in water which comprises applying a composition thereto of about four parts by volume of a surface active agent consisting of the non-ionic reaction products of ethylene oxide with nonyl phenol and mixing about one part therewith of sorbitan monolaurate to prevent the formation of an immersible gell between the reaction products and the water. —- Description —- One of the problems confronting the avid fly fisherman is the ability of having a fly sink fast after it is cast into the water. One solution has been to use split shot on the leader or by the use of weighted flies; however, the weighted flies do not move in a natural manner and the use of split shot on the leader makes for difficult, inaccurate and sometimes, unsafe casting. While some fly fishermen have used a sinking liquid applied to the leader, this liquid will not stay on the leader and needs to be reapplied practically for each and every cast. The benefits and advantages of the present invention are achieved by the use of a composition of matter formulated to provide ease of application and a composition that will stay on a fly and cause it to sink rapidly for many, many successive casts and wherein the fly sinks down low to where the fish are. The sinker compound works so well and lasts such a very long time that in most instances, there is no need to use split shot or weighted flies. The composition is also an excellent leader sink and makes sinking lines sink even faster. It is a primary object of this invention to provide a fly, line and leader sinker composition that is easy to use, wipes off fingers easily, provides rapid sinking to lines, leaders and flies and is retained thereon for a multitude of successive casts. Another object of the invention is to provide a sinking composition that does not interfere with the natural movement of flies and will permit safe and accurate casting. A still further object of the present invention is to provide a sinking composition many times better than previously available compositions and avoids the use of a streamer or nymph to achieve sink characteristics. Additional benefits and advantages of the present invention become apparent upon the reading of the description of the preferred embodiment. The fly, line and leader sinker composition according to this invention consists of about four parts by volume of Surfonic N-40 surface active agent, about one part by volume of Span 20 and about ten parts by weight of a mineral oil. The composition may also contain a small amount of cod liver oil for scent purposes, a small amount of mineral oil and a small amount of Aerosil 200 as a thickening agent. These ingredients are mixed together to form a highly viscous liquid product. The Surfonic N-40 is manufactured by Jefferson Chemical Company, Inc. and is available from VanWaters & Rogers, division of Univar, 4300 Holly St., Denver, Col. 80216. Surfonic N-40 surface active agent is a non-ionic reaction product of ethylene oxide with nonyl phenol. The products are designated by a number following the letter "N". The number is a ten-fold multiple of the molar ratio of ethylene oxide in the adduct. The surface active properties result from the combination of the hydrophilic polyoxyethylene chain and the hydrophobic nonyl phenol. These groups combine to form a molecule which "crosses" the oil-water interface and breaks down the surface tension so as to promote a dispersion. Surfonic N-40 is water-insoluble, oil-soluble. When the Surfonic N-40 alone contacts water, the water acts with the Surfonic N-40 to produce an immiscible gel. A surfactant Span 20 is added to the Surfonic N-40 and when mixed therewith, prevents hydration of the Surfonic N-40 from producing an immiscible gel. Span 20 is a trademark of ICI Americas, Inc., Specialty Chemicals Division, Wilmington, Del. 19897 and is used to identify a non-ionic surfactant of sorbitan monolaurate. The composition may also include about ten parts by weight of a medium grade mineral oil and a small amount of a thickness such as silica known by the trade name Aerosil 200 a product of Degussa Corp., Route 46 at Hollister Rd., P.O. Box 2004, Teterboro, N.J. 07608. The resulting composition is a thick amber liquid that can be placed on the figures and rubbed into a fly, line or leader. When a fly, line or leader treated with the composition of this invention is cast into water, the fly, line and/or leader will sink immediately and will avoid any tendency of floating on top of the water. The line, fly and/or leader so treated can be cast and re-cast numerous times without the necessity of renewing the sinker composition. The present invention may be embodied in other specific forms without departing from the spirit or essential characteristics thereof. The presently disclosed embodiment is, therefore, to be considered in all respects as illustrative and not restrictive, the scope of the invention being indicated by the appended claims rather than by the foregoing description, and all changes which come within the meaning and range of equivalency of the claims are, therefore, intended to be embraced therein. * * * * * —- END OF COPY. What this basically means is, you managed to "bamboo"zle and bullshit the US Patent Office into granting you a patent on a soap mixture.  With Silica, mineral oil, etc ( see above) added.  You have been filling this mixture into little bottles, and selling it to the unsuspecting angling public for years. Do you actually add "scent" ?  Most unsporting. Whatever, a drop of any reasonable detergent works better, and has no mineral oil or other crap in it. Any chemist would be laughing himself sick at all this. If you are a chemist, then I am the Archangel Michael. Would you like an independent analysis of Gink as well?  No trouble I assure you. MC

Response:

Germany used 88mm main guns on its tank Georgie.No reference to an 80mm gun. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where do you get all this crap from ? Snipped a ton of ignorant guessing about many things you know NOTHING of. .  Americans were the boys in W.W.II that would take abandoned German Tanks, and get them running with a pair of pliers and bailing wire.  Then they would turn that 80 MM cannon around and pepper those Nazi’s asses.

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H    H I      I C=C       What is it?  What can you make of it, and how? I     I H   H MC

Response:

Germany used 88mm main guns on its tank Georgie.No reference to an 80mm gun.

It’s quite interesting how G alludes that Mike C’s posts are derogatory towards US citizens.  I assume that this is supposed to drum up support for his "case".

Response:

You have the manners of a pig, the social skills of an alley cat, the general knowledge of a house brick, literally stink of ignorance So don’t tell us we don’t know anything about engines, wrist pin.

ROFF Backyard Wrestling !  It’s a hoot ! I’m waiting for Chyna to come out and beat both of you over the head with a folding metal chair ! Your pal, — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Don Thompson writes: Germany used 88mm main guns on its tank Georgie.No reference to an 80mm gun.

Uh, Don, uh, you will confuse him with facts.  This is the guy that flew F-100s in Korea and shot down MiG-19s a year before they came out, and a year after the war ended.  Besides, by his own words, he tells us he has been tying flies for "four score years".  The sucker is over 100 years old, apparently. BTW, I have seen and fished with Mike Connor tied flies.  They are superb examples of the art, and he gave them freely without me asking, without me supporting him, without me endorsing anything.  Of course he hasn’t been tying for 80 something years like George……. I’ve also cast a rod designed and built by Mike.  I own (moment of insanity, I know) a rod built by Gehrke.  There is no comparison to the way Mike’s rod casts to the tomato stake that George made.  If only I had pulled a Vern at the The Pirate and Bottom Dweller

Response:

I think it’s nothing This is something     H   H      l     l H-C=C-H      l     l     H   H This is something else which is supposed to destroy cells in some part of your body.  I forget which part. This is something better.     H   H      l     l H-C=C-OH      l     l     H   H The chemistry may explain why english beer is bad. %^) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – H    H I      I C=C       What is it?  What can you make of it, and how? I     I H   H MC

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I would ask you all to refrain from answering this until Mr Gehrke does so. I have my reasons. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think it’s nothing This is something

Response:

That ain’t shit, look at this:                 S                     S                         S                             S                                 S                                 S                             S                         S                     S                 S

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think it’s nothing This is something     H   H      l     l H-C=C-H      l     l     H   H This is something else which is supposed to destroy cells in some part of your body.  I forget which part. This is something better.     H   H      l     l H-C=C-OH      l     l     H   H The chemistry may explain why english beer is bad. %^) H    H I      I C=C       What is it?  What can you make of it, and how? I     I H   H MC

Response:

Now that’s a post for the ages, if I ever saw one.  Thanks for warmin’ my heart this morn Mike.  I am headed out to Wilson Creek in an hour to fish with another fine ROFFian, Wally Boy.  Mike you deserve a beer basket for this one.  If only I were so damned articulate! Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where do you get all this crap from ?   Do you hear voices or something? Did some nutcase of your acquaintance and similar persuasion, mistake you for a tree, and hammer a nail in your head?   Just what the hell is the matter with you? To date we have been treated to various spectacle as a direct result of your general ignorance and incompetence. You are a chemist who does not know the first thing about even elementary chemistry, you are a pilot who has flown non-existent planes, you are an engineer who knows nothing of the by-products of internal combustion engines, an environmentalist who uses the most wasteful possible modes of transport,  you are an expert at fly-tying, although apparently unaware of how, or even if, many materials may be obtained and used, playwriting, poetry, hunting, casting and rod-building, we wont go into that, etc etc etc . And of course you are a genius ! Even the thought of somebody like you flying around in something as complex as an aeroplane gives me the shudders, even if you were only a passenger. You have the manners of a pig, the social skills of an alley cat, the general knowledge of a house brick, literally stink of ignorance and prejudice in a host of forms, and for some weird and probably completely unknowable reason, you think you are a gentleman as well. Your only apparent genius is for making nonsensical, grammatically and otherwise, barely intelligible statements,  which invariably turn out to have virtually no foundation whatsoever. Absolutely amazing. Is there not at least some faint feeble aspect of your character which is not mean, ignorant, and nasty? Your proclamations, as far as they are decipherable, invariably bear incontrovertible witness to your ignorance. Just for your information, my phone bill is in excess of 250$ per month. Even though I have reduced my internet activities considerably. I only have a small business which I now operate completely single-handed.  It is successful, as my products and work are beyond reproach, I have not had a single customer return in all the years I have been self-employed. Not even the stuff I send  per UPS is faulted. A fact that I am extremely proud of. Doubtless UPS as well.  I work long hours at difficult and physically and mentally demanding work, and then I come on here for a bit of enjoyment and have to listen to loonies like you, who have probably never done a decent days work in their entire lives, have no discernible morals, and earn their money selling a load of awful shit, most of which they do not even understand, making various statements as if they had been handed down on tablets of stone. Perhaps I should start building rods or manufacturing floatant?   If some of the competition is indeed as lousy as its reputation suggests, then I ought to make a mint. Before you start spouting bullshit, at least make an attempt, no matter how feeble, to get some information on the subject first. What I earn is none of your business. But rest assured, I earn it. MC "The gaga continues".

Response:

… You have the manners of a pig, the social skills of an alley cat, the general knowledge of a house brick, literally stink of ignorance and prejudice in a host of forms, and for some weird and probably completely unknowable reason, you think you are a gentleman as well. Your only apparent genius is for making nonsensical, grammatically and otherwise, barely intelligible statements,  which invariably turn out to have virtually no foundation whatsoever. …

Priceless. A tad harsh on pigs and alley cats not to mention downright insulting to bricks but a ROFF Hall of Fame post nonetheless. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Where do you get all this crap from ?  

Snipped a ton of ignorant guessing about many things you know NOTHING of. Look Connor, you old, wrong opinionated fool.  My rates for my Internet Service is $199.00 for a full year.  The DEDICATED phone line is $25.95 a month.  This is only $322.40 for a full year.  Amount of hours I use each month regarding Internet business exceeds 80 hours a month, which equates to about .32 Cents AN HOUR!  So what is your problem, moron? Don’t you believe these rates, you bullshit artist? Next, do you want me to send you a video tape of me flying my airplane? How about a grand tour of my chemistry lab?  Who gives a shit what YOU think?  Incidentally, there is nothing I don’t know about an internal combustion engine.  American kids, cut their teeth on them since puberty.  Americans were the boys in W.W.II that would take abandoned German Tanks, and get them running with a pair of pliers and bailing wire.  Then they would turn that 80 MM cannon around and pepper those Nazi’s asses. So don’t tell us we don’t know anything about engines, wrist pin. I bet if I said belly button, you would write a poem or essay on it for Roff? Okay, "Billy Button!" Connor, I know more about fly tying in my little finger then what you will know in the next fifty years.  I will say (for the record) you have a NICE signature as a fly tier, but what does the rest of your concerns amount too?  A waste of our valuable time because it proves nothing regarding what you know about us in America. I never, in all my life, saw anyone like you.  You jump on every subject,  you offer up endless amounts of crap we all already know about and you always seem to be looking for a pat on the head. Okay.  I can do that.   Nice Connor.  Nice Connor.  Good boy, Connor. Look?  Let me put it this way.  Pick one subject you don’t know anything about or ask me one question you don’t know the answer too, and I’ll teach you, okay? Or don’t you get the point?

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Look?  Let me put it this way.  Pick one subject you don’t know anything about or ask me one question you don’t know the answer too, and I’ll teach you, okay? Or don’t you get the point?

Here’s a topic for you George. It should be easy for you since you seem to know so much about the internet. Describe how to get non-blocking routing through a toriodal interconnect fabric of any dimension. Paul

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Exceeds $50,000 a year.  So what is the problem with paying $300 a year or

less for all the Internet Phone Time one would care to use, again, FOR A FULL YEAR without limits on amount of time. How cheap can you get? — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com "the saga continues"

Where do you get all this crap from ?   Do you hear voices or something? Did some nutcase of your acquaintance and similar persuasion, mistake you for a tree, and hammer a nail in your head?   Just what the hell is the matter with you? To date we have been treated to various spectacle as a direct result of your general ignorance and incompetence. You are a chemist who does not know the first thing about even elementary chemistry, you are a pilot who has flown non-existent planes, you are an engineer who knows nothing of the by-products of internal combustion engines, an environmentalist who uses the most wasteful possible modes of transport,  you are an expert at fly-tying, although apparently unaware of how, or even if, many materials may be obtained and used, playwriting, poetry, hunting, casting and rod-building, we wont go into that, etc etc etc . And of course you are a genius ! Even the thought of somebody like you flying around in something as complex as an aeroplane gives me the shudders, even if you were only a passenger. You have the manners of a pig, the social skills of an alley cat, the general knowledge of a house brick, literally stink of ignorance and prejudice in a host of forms, and for some weird and probably completely unknowable reason, you think you are a gentleman as well. Your only apparent genius is for making nonsensical, grammatically and otherwise, barely intelligible statements,  which invariably turn out to have virtually no foundation whatsoever. Absolutely amazing. Is there not at least some faint feeble aspect of your character which is not mean, ignorant, and nasty? Your proclamations, as far as they are decipherable, invariably bear incontrovertible witness to your ignorance. Just for your information, my phone bill is in excess of 250$ per month. Even though I have reduced my internet activities considerably. I only have a small business which I now operate completely single-handed.  It is successful, as my products and work are beyond reproach, I have not had a single customer return in all the years I have been self-employed. Not even the stuff I send  per UPS is faulted. A fact that I am extremely proud of. Doubtless UPS as well.  I work long hours at difficult and physically and mentally demanding work, and then I come on here for a bit of enjoyment and have to listen to loonies like you, who have probably never done a decent days work in their entire lives, have no discernible morals, and earn their money selling a load of awful shit, most of which they do not even understand, making various statements as if they had been handed down on tablets of stone. Perhaps I should start building rods or manufacturing floatant?   If some of the competition is indeed as lousy as its reputation suggests, then I ought to make a mint. Before you start spouting bullshit, at least make an attempt, no matter how feeble, to get some information on the subject first. What I earn is none of your business. But rest assured, I earn it. MC "The gaga continues".

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Question:

South Africa is not all that bad I do admit to a lot of crime here though Aids is not much of a problem among the white communities they say something like 35% of all Africans are infected From Gavin

That’s what I was talking about.  It’s been in the news over here quite a bit lately.  Didn’t realize that it was localized to the black community. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

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if one was limited to 1 line for each line weight #2-#12 and could only spend about $50 on each line what kind,weight,taper,density(floating sinking etc.)price and color would it be is there a preference for certain line which lines are the most popular which line would you recommend for a beginner what do you think of multi tips etc. these answers will help in restocking a new fly shop in south africa we have got airflow flylines but want to now what the craze is now information will be greatly appreciated tight lines from Gavin

If I walked into a fly shop and they had only 1 type of line in each weight, I would immediately walk out. Peter G. Aitken

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If I walked into a fly shop and they had only 1 type of line in each weight, I would immediately walk out.

LOL.  I didn’t think about that but I agree.  Unless it is the only shop within a 100 miles and I need stuff now. I’ve been in a situation where I went fishing to a location that I was told had a local fly-shop.  Therefore, I chose to buy some of my stuff at their shop in hopes of getting some local information.  However, the shop turned out to be a small corner in a gas station.  The only other shop was 3 hours away. — Vern The new ROFF page: http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfishing4fun "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

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If I walked into a fly shop and they had only 1 type of line in each weight, I would immediately walk out.  If you were in a society where the average yearly  income is 1/100 of the US, you might view shopping  opportunities in a different light.  Greg.

I could be wrong, but I’m guessing that Gavin’s folks aren’t selling a lot of fly lines to the native South Africans. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

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 HMMMM  lessssseee. I net 85K so 1/100 would be $850. HOLY SMOKES Pancho I just spent more for 6 mo. professional hazard insurance than the average annual income of 4/5 of the world.Not to mention the annual dues I pay to the various professional societies.AH the wonders of tax loopholes.  By the way 3 out of 4 people make up 75 % of the worlds population.   OK OK OK  shut up and go fishing. —  Don Thompson  Zoomie(BushBug)  ACA#3460  TLCB#335  Any Time, Any Place  Pull the chocks, lets get this kite in the air.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I walked into a fly shop and they had only 1 type of line in each weight, I would immediately walk out.  If you were in a society where the average yearly  income is 1/100 of the US, you might view shopping  opportunities in a different light.  Greg.

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I second the trashing of the Airflow lines.  I’ve only been fly fishing for 12 years, but for the last 2 years I’ve been ff about 4-5 times a week. I’ve used the Airflo Delta and Bass lines:  they suck terribly.  Never ever lose their memory (when in Florida I stretched a line around my garage and left it in the 100 degree heat for 24 hours, and it still retained its memory coil) and they are sure to tangle on at least 25 to 50% of your casts.  Even the cheapest Cortlands (333) and SAs are far better. Adam

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But poke holes in them with a pin first and you might (with luck) have a few new customers in … maybe … 15-20 years!

My mother sells rubbers to sailors. My pop pokes  the holes with a pin. My sister performs the abortions. My God, how the money rolls in! (Just kidding…Mom’s a lawyer, Dad teaches, and the closest thing I have to a sister is their female Golden Retriever) Vegetables aren’t food. Vegetables are what the food eats.

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LOL…the minute I read your message and saw the word ‘airflow’ I thought, "*((&%)# line memory!"  Then I read the replies that are above mine and have little to add.   Absolute crap.   I’ve been fly fishing many years now and can think of few things I’ve purchased that have caused me more anger and headaches during the short time I used it. I now keep what’s left of it in my large fishing box to use for emergency shoe laces, tent rope, etc. Until recently I had a large enough house lot so that I could stretch my fly lines out in the sun full length under tension to get out any line memory, prior to most trips.  It worked great on everything but the Airflow, which still looked like a floating slinky on the surface when used the next day. I’m not as conversant as some on the new lines, so can’t recommend any particular brand, but just wanted to add my $.02 worth about ‘Airflow.’ Max Before you buy.

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Trash the AirFlo lines, stock a full line of AirFlo leaders, get SA and Cortland fly lines, give out free condoms with each purchase over $50 or you’ll have no customers in 5 years. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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Gavin, I thought you were the 16 year old kid.  Didn’t you say that you started fly-fishing 6 years ago when you were 10?  Now, you have your own fly-shop in South Africa? — Vern The new ROFF page: http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfishing4fun "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

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I second the trashing of the Airflow lines.  I’ve only been fly fishing for 12 years, but for the last 2 years I’ve been ff about 4-5 times a week. I’ve used the Delta and Bass lines:  they suck terribly.  Never ever lose their memory (when in Florida I stretched a line around my garage and left it in the 100 degree heat for 24 hours, and it still retained its memory coil) and they are sure to tangle on at least 25 to 50% of your casts.  Even the cheapest Cortlands (333) and SAs are far better. Adam

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if one was limited to 1 line for each line weight #2-#12 and could only spend about $50 on each line what kind,weight,taper,density(floating sinking etc.)price and color would it be is there a preference for certain line which lines are the most popular which line would you recommend for a beginner what do you think of multi tips etc. these answers will help in restocking a new fly shop in south africa we have got airflow flylines but want to now what the craze is now information will be greatly appreciated tight lines from Gavin

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if one was limited to 1 line for each line weight #2-#12 and could only spend about $50 on each line what kind,weight,taper,density(floating sinking etc.)price and color would it be is there a preference for certain line which lines are the most popular which line would you recommend for a beginner what do you think of multi tips etc. these answers will help in restocking a new fly shop in south africa we have got airflow flylines but want to now what the craze is now information will be greatly appreciated tight lines from Gavin

Again, trash the airflow lines.  I like the Rio lines.  However, Corland is a big company and might be easier to get in South Africa. Their lines are okay depending on which one you get. — Vern The new ROFF page: http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfishing4fun "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

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Trash the AirFlo lines, stock a full line of AirFlo leaders, get SA and Cortland fly lines, give out free condoms with each purchase over $50 or you’ll have no customers in 5 years. — Wayne

___  The voice of experience!  Good advice. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com "the sage continues"

  gink.vcf

< 1K Download

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… give out free condoms with each purchase over $50 or you’ll have no customers in 5 years.

But poke holes in them with a pin first and you might (with luck) have a few new customers in … maybe … 15-20 years! Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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That is "Airflo", not "airflow", which is immaterial in any case as it is only fit for the bin. If you do not already know the answers to these questions, quite apart from the prices involved, then you should not be opening a fly shop. The "craze" at the moment appears to be inline skates. TL MC "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Sent: Donnerstag, 13. Juli 2000 19:56 if one was limited to 1 line for each line weight #2-#12 and could only spend about $50 on each line what kind,weight,taper,density(floating sinking etc.)price and color would it be is there a preference for certain line which lines are the most popular which line would you recommend for a beginner what do you think of multi tips etc. these answers will help in restocking a new fly shop in south africa we have got airflow flylines but want to now what the craze is now information will be greatly appreciated tight lines from Gavin — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de if one was limited to 1 line for each line weight #2-#12 and could only spend about $50 on each line what kind,weight,taper,density(floating sinking etc.)price and color would it be is there a preference for certain line which lines are the most popular which line would you recommend for a beginner what do you think of multi tips etc. these answers will help in restocking a new fly shop in south africa we have got airflow flylines but want to now what the craze is now information will be greatly appreciated tight lines from Gavin

Response:

… give out free condoms with each purchase over $50 or you’ll have no customers in 5 years. But poke holes in them with a pin first and you might (with luck) have a few new customers in … maybe … 15-20 years! Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

If they live that long.  Odds aren’t as good as they used to be in SA. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … give out free condoms with each purchase over $50 or you’ll have no customers in 5 years. But poke holes in them with a pin first and you might (with luck) have a few new customers in … maybe … 15-20 years! Tight Lines, Tony Deacon If they live that long.  Odds aren’t as good as they used to be in SA. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

South Africa is not all that bad I do admit to a lot of crime here though Aids is not much of a problem among the white communities they say something like 35% of all Africans are infected From Gavin

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That is "Airflo", not "airflow", which is immaterial in any case as it is only fit for the bin. If you do not already know the answers to these questions, quite apart from the prices involved, then you should not be opening a fly shop. The "craze" at the moment appears to be inline skates. TL MC "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Im just wanted to know as we have sold most of AIRFLO stock and plan to get more I said if 1 was limited to $50 which is about R320 with our exchange rate at the moment Oh I dont own a shop I am helping my friend who does regards Gavin

Response:

if one was limited to 1 line for each line weight #2-#12 and could only spend about $50 on each line what kind,weight,taper,density(floating sinking etc.)price and color would it be is there a preference for certain line which lines are the most popular which line would you recommend for a beginner what do you think of multi tips etc. these answers will help in restocking a new fly shop in south africa we have got airflow flylines but want to now what the craze is now information will be greatly appreciated tight lines from Gavin

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Question:

 ______  snipped barbarian verbal pictographs –             only to the like-minded. Our private strictures            answer to a vision that encompasses a practical            conduct, an aesthetic, and an ethic which is to say,             I suppose, that it is a philosophy. The multiple            nymphs affixed to my leader are the kind of             barbarism another fisherman might handle only with            tongs. I string them up without a second thought." will  be a long process) to slowly emulsify your Plural mind into a grand instrument of olympic proportions and singular thinking. May you discover the Single Action Fly Fishing System that does not include indicators and gang banging. May your leaded nymphs always hang up and may you always not have enough flies.   Really enjoyed this post.  I am haunted by this singular life –   —   Mr. G.   http://www.gink.com/html  (Come, visit)   One log per person.

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[deleted] will  be a long process) to slowly emulsify your Plural mind into a grand instrument of olympic proportions and singular thinking.

[deleted] Ask not for whom the bug trolls George. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Question:

bellows writes: actually, the reverse of that is what we should be looking for.  we should work to stop the offshore-mixed stock fisheries and work to create selective harvest methods in terminal fisheries.  you are right though, we cannot have both offshore mix-stock and terminal fisheries at the same time.  the tribes didn’t destroy the resource, and they probably take less columbia river fish than alaska and canada (steelhead excepted).  the problem is the method, gill-nets are plain wrong when you have co-mingled fish stocks, which is basically all the time.

Modify or eliminate the dams, and there would be plenty of wild salmon for everyone. CQ

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I want to expand further on what I discussed in my first post.  I didn’t take  the time to go into detail so I came away sounding like a redneck who doesn’t  feel the tribes should have access to the fish.  They should.  Afterall, they  were fishing for salmon long before the first European stepped foot on the  land in North America.  However, I think there are better solutions out there  then running gill nets around the clock for several weeks at a time.

you are correct, there are options.  the state and feds should be trying to develop and encourage selective fisheries when it comes to commercial fisheries, whether they be treaty or non-treaty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Salmon/steelhead fishing has become a game of who has the most money in our  state.  I despise  politics because of special interest monies way of buying  influence vs. doing the right thing.  That is why I enjoy getting out on the  water.  It is one of the few acts that normally doesn’t involve much in the  way of politics.  Salmon/steelhead fishing is the exception to this.  If your  resources are endanger, common sense says you do the right thing and shut the  fishing down for a year or two to EVERYBODY.  That way, you get your fish  stocks back up  and the resource is boosted.  Cutting off sportsmen in the  least populated section of the state does nothing but tell us where we really  stand.

in most cases, i would agree with that statement regarding closures, but in the columbia river system will closures restore the stocks?  i believe that signifigant strides must be made towards increasing the survival of downstream and upstream migrants through the dams before real gains will be seen in the upper columbia basin.  it’s not just eastern washington getting the short end of the stick (resource).  where i live, along the strait of juan de fuca, communities are going belly up because salmon seasons have been cut dramatically, while commercial fishermen keep netting. One person mentioned that they didn’t think the tribal fishing accounted for  much of the catch.  If I am not mistaken, the tribes are entitled to 50% of  the commercial catch each year.  I may be mistaken on this but those are the  numbers I have heard.

i said that, and i stand behind it.  with regard to salmon the tribes take less fish than the offshore fisheries in alaska, canada and washington. with steelhead they are the only commercial fishers and catch too many wild fish in their nets (goes back to how much we need selective fisheries that allow the live release of wild fish).  the tribes are entitled to 50% of the fish, but they do not always catch the 50%. the problem with the tribal fisheries is that we can see what they are doing.  we don’t see the millions of fish that get caught off the coast, from alaska to the columbia, and the tribes get a larger share of the blame than they deserve (not that they are blameless). Irregardless of catch percentage, you can’t feel very good about seeing row  after row of nets all the way across the river during the main part of the  run.  You know that any type of fish that swims by is getting caught in the  net.   In closing, when you are dealing with a limited resource that is in much  demand, you can’t make everybody happy.  However, it just seems like the  sportsmen are the ones asked to give up their rights first.

the state had no other option but to close the upper columbia.  they have no control over the main problem, which are the dams, and very little control over tribal netting.  the date for listing was oct. 17th, so the state acted ahead of time.  next year will be the test year as to whether the tribal fishing will be restricted also.  another thing that made the closures automatic was the listing of the upper columbia hatchery fish (which heavily outnumber wild fish) as endangered.  this took away the option of fishing for hatchery fish and releasing wild fish, which has been the case for the seasons precluding this one.  I just bought a  new salmon fly rod blank a week before they closed down ALL of the steelhead  fisheries in my area.  I now have to drive 6 hours one way to use it. That  isn’t going to happen so I am building the rod for my sister in AK instead.  At least there she will get to use it.  At least in this round, I am the loser  while the folks who have the loudest voices still have all their fishing rights.

 it’s time to work for true restoration of wild, naturally spawning salmonids in the columbia system.  it’s time for BPA to put some money into wild, native fish management.  it’s time for other groups with loud voices such as the industries that use the columbia to the detriment of the fish to take some hits to restore the once large runs of salmon and steelhead to this river.  i’m willing to pay more money for electricity to help fund measures that help wild salmon.  i’m willing to accept closures to give the fish a break, but only if i see a real effort to restore the runs, not as an excuse to do nothing.  i would love to see the tribes sue the hell out of the government to make them take the steps to restore wild salmon.

Response:

actually, the reverse of that is what we should be looking for.  we should work to stop the offshore-mixed stock fisheries and work to create selective harvest methods in terminal fisheries.  you are right though, we cannot have both offshore mix-stock and terminal fisheries at the same time.  the tribes didn’t destroy the resource, and they probably take less columbia river fish than alaska and canada (steelhead excepted).  

I think it would be fair to say that Canada would support reduced interceptions of columbia River salmon to the extent you can persuade Alaska from intercepting fish bound for our rivers. I believe some action has been taken to protect Columbia River fish off the West Coast of Vancouver Island though I’m not sure of the numbers and it likely isn’t enough – however interceptions by Alaska are the major problem and have to be addressed. It’s an issue that have very broad implications far beyond the commercial fishery and the Pacific Salmon Treaty. Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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I had the good fortune of meeting the Director of Fish & Wildlife, Bern Shanks, last night while he spoke at the Renton Chapter of Puget Sound Anglers. His basic message was this: Unless we make some drastic changes in the way our state is managing our salmon and steelhead, we will no longer be charged with that management resposnibility, the Federal Government will. He said that it appears to those in Olympia that the only parties interested in the outcome of this struggle to save salmon are the commercial fishing interests and Washington tribes. Please read my article and contact a commissioner and your elected representatives in Olympia. There is a crucial vote pending before the F&W Commission that will decide on a Wild Salmonid Policy option that will have significant lasting impacts on our future abilities to fish for and catch salmon and steelhead in this state. My article can be found at http://www.nwfishing.com/dweitl/ww1.html Thanks. — David and B.J. Weitl Poulsbo, Washington Washington Statewide Fishing Reports http://www.nwfishing.com/dweitl/ww1.html

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David, Thanks for the update.  I know many anglers who are mad as hell at the way this  states salmon and steelhead are managed.  Skip Knowles, publisher of the  Washington Fishing and Hunting News, has been an ongoing advocate who has been  trying to raise everbodys awareness and has done a great job.  In my personal  opinion, the sportsman are just fed up with nobody listening to what we have  to say.  It seems that the commercial and tribal fisherman have all their  attention. A classic example of this is the recent listing of the upriver steelhead as  endangered species.  The tribal and commericial fisherman can net the hell out  of them in the lower Columbia, but once they pass a certain dam and are no  longer of interest to these two parties, they become "endangered."  The only  loser here is the sportsmen. Then, to top it off, some clown wants to open the Hanford reach to a commercial  fishing study two weeks later.  (The same fish that are now considered  endangered here would have been exposed to commercial nets!) Fortunately this  was nixed by Senator Murray. I personally don’t know what else to do.  It seems that special intersts have  outbid the sportsman to the the point that we don’t  have much of a voice  anymore. The solution here is simple:  GET THE TRIBAL NETS OUT OF THE WATER AND CREATE A  NON COMMERCIAL NO FISHING ZONE AROUND THE OUTLETS TO THESE RIVERS.

actually, the reverse of that is what we should be looking for.  we should work to stop the offshore-mixed stock fisheries and work to create selective harvest methods in terminal fisheries.  you are right though, we cannot have both offshore mix-stock and terminal fisheries at the same time.  the tribes didn’t destroy the resource, and they probably take less columbia river fish than alaska and canada (steelhead excepted).  the problem is the method, gill-nets are plain wrong when you have co-mingled fish stocks, which is basically all the time. bern shanks is on our side on this issue.  we must force the commision to follow his lead in protecting the resource, not special interests.

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Question:

Will be going to the Eugene area in mid-May to fish with my father-in-law.  Does anyone know of some convenient locations to trout fish?  I would really appreciate some help.  Both spin and fly.

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Will be going to the Eugene area in mid-May to fish with my father-in-law. Does anyone know of some convenient locations to trout fish?  I would really appreciate some help.  Both spin and fly.

I would call Bob Guard at the Caddis Fly Shop in Eugene for some good info. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Will also be in Eugene fishing May 17-25. My friend is acting as our guide. He says the McKenzie has awesome caddis hatches this time of year. Will also be going to the Motolius River. He also recommended the Caddis Fly Shop. Good Luck and tight lines

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Will be going to the Eugene area in mid-May to fish with my father-in-law.  Does anyone know of some convenient locations to trout fish?  I would really appreciate some help.  Both spin and fly.

Fall creek is a small creek just outside of Eugene that has trout. If you have access to a boat the lower part of the McKenzie is great, if not just drive up hwy 126 along the river. Above Leaburg dam the water is small enough to wade and fish and they have recently stocked it so there will definately be some dumb easy to catch fish along with the natives.   Basicly just about any stream you see will have trout in it. Get a synopsis from a fishing shop if you don’t have one because some of the water has special restrictions, like no bait, barbless, fly fishing only and release of non-hatchery fish (can you believe it T-Bone, its the law and there are some huge wild redsides in the lower McKenzie because of it) Have fun and let us know how it went. Martin Allen

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Question:

Hi Again Again, check out REI Elements.  After two years of research I went with their Elements shell because it’s 10% more water proof than Goretex, 10% less breathable, but well designed with zips under arms, etc. for about 1/2 the price of Goretex and generally less weight than all but the most expensive GT.  I got mine for $115, vs Marmot’s $260.  Hope to get the pants this year.  Great windbreaker as well.  No teflon!.

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: Frank- :     Tough it out.  Last year, I bought a Gore-Tex wannabe, pants and parka. :     I had no problems other than the fact that the coating on the jacket was :     teflon, and I couldn’t stop after falling while showboarding(!).   Actually I believe goretex is actually just specially treated teflon. I met some chemistry guys who showed me how it’s done. It’s just got really small specially punched holes in it. "When you play the synthesizer keyboard as though it were a piano or organ, funny things happen" – Dick Hyman in the liner notes of his 196? album "MOOG"

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 ("I’d rather be Flyfishing!") writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello everyone, Don’t know if I should talk about specific products in the forum. Oh well, here goes: just got an EMS Expedition Parka and I love it!  Wish I could afford the matching EMS Expedition Pants, but the funds ain’t there and winter’s a comin’. Having Gore Tex pants is important to me.  I can live with them being insulated or uninsulated, but I do want quality stuff. <<stuff gone My gut says, go with the L.L. Bean product. I think it will compliment my EMS Expedition Parka just fine. My other gut says, tough it out with a cheapo pants and save up for the EMS Expedition Pants for next year. Thanks in advance for any advise you can share. Frank: flyfisher, icefisher, skier, snowshoveler et al.

Frank-     Tough it out.  Last year, I bought a Gore-Tex wannabe, pants and parka.     I had no problems other than the fact that the coating on the jacket was     teflon, and I couldn’t stop after falling while showboarding(!).  I was     willing to cope with that, since Gore-Tex would have cost twice as much.     This summer, I went hiking on a 90 degree day, and when I pulled my jacket     out that night, It had partially melted and stuck to itself!:(     Fortunately, I was able to return it and get the real thing.  It was worth     the extra $200 for the top of the line stuff |      Box 631             (610) 758-0461                | |      Lehigh University                                 | |      29 Trembley Dr.                                   |

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Having Gore Tex pants is important to me.  I can live with them being insulated or uninsulated, but I do want quality stuff.

snip snip Thanks in advance for any advise you can share.

Well, since you asked for it, and bearing in mind that advice is worth what you pay for it, here’s some for free |:-) Both coated and Gore-Tex pants are going to block wind and water.  Both will get clammy on the inside when it’s humid.  Both will get torn up by the briars if you do much walking in the woods.  The main difference, in my personal experience (I’ve used both), is in the price. What I have settled on for now is a pair of urethane-coated nylon trousers, uninsulated, with drawstrings at waist and cuffs, calf zippers, and sealed seams.  I paid about $25 for them (LL Bean, I think).  I can use whatever insulation I want beneath them and won’t break down in despair when they are ruined in a laurel hell some day. Regards, Stephen Anderson

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Hello everyone, Don’t know if I should talk about specific products in the forum. Oh well, here goes: just got an EMS Expedition Parka and I love it!  Wish I could afford the matching EMS Expedition Pants, but the funds ain’t there and winter’s a comin’. Having Gore Tex pants is important to me.  I can live with them being insulated or uninsulated, but I do want quality stuff. EMS sells this Gore-Tex-like System 3 getup.  The pants seem pretty nice for being water-resistant and wind-resistant, full leg zips, seams are sealed, back pockets that zip and an elastic waistband that has side snaps. $85.00. L.L.Bean sells their Gore-Tex North Col Pants, either insulated or uninsulated, full leg zips (2 way), velcro closures at waist and cuffs, and a storm flap over the leg zips. $139 ($129 uninsulated) Columbia has several models of pants, all do not have Gore-Tex, most are uninsulated, most have only zips at the cuffs and elastic waist bands with snaps for adjustment. $29-$89 My gut says, go with the L.L. Bean product. I think it will compliment my EMS Expedition Parka just fine. My other gut says, tough it out with a cheapo pants and save up for the EMS Expedition Pants for next year. Thanks in advance for any advise you can share. Frank: flyfisher, icefisher, skier, snowshoveler et al.

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