Question:

The way a fish takes a nymph has to do with a number of different things including what nymphs the fish are feeding on, the depth they’re feeding

Here’s an example from about two weeks ago.  I was fishing an unweighted wooly bugger.  Bass would not hit a swimming bugger.  All our hits came as we were distracted and had let our flies sink to the bottom.  Then as we lifted our rods to begin the backcast, that’s when the largemouth bass would strike.  I had noticed plenty of drake shucks floating around and when I got home read in Dick Pobst’s Trout Stream Insects (Orvis Streamside Guide form Lyons Press) to imitate the green drake nymph by lifting it from the bottom of slackwater.   Mu

Response:

Mu Young Lee wrote… Here’s an example from about two weeks ago.  I was fishing an unweighted wooly bugger.  Bass would not hit a swimming bugger.  All our hits came as we were distracted and had let our flies sink to the bottom.

Hey, that’s great news because I get easily distracted. Or at least that’s what my wife tells me. She was telling me that just last week while we were outside in the yard… Wait, what was I talking about? –Steve

Response:

One technique I can suggest to you that is just a small variation on the tight line system you’re trying out. No bobber required!! It is an up, down and across presentation. The same or similar terminal rig as you’re using with your tight line system. The difference is that you need to keep an almost tight line, instead of a tight one. It does require quite a bit of mending, line retrieval etc. to keep the flies along the bottom and still have some contact with them.  The takes are usually pretty apparent either visually or by feel. You do need to vary the amount of weight with each new area you fish. I like this technique for big heavy water, especially in water with good stonefly populations.

Sounds similar to what I intend to do on the weekend.  We’ll see what happens. I do too, but over a season, don’t you take more fish on a dry fished drag free? I think the same holds true for nymphs.

Yes, I just like to try different methods. Since you’re a good streamer fisherman and know that technique well, I’m sure you’ll get some fish on nymphs fished in the same manner. Personally, I’d like to watch you fish streamers. I’ve never had the chance to fish with someone or watch someone effectively fish streamers to stream trout. Don’t see many people flinging streamers in the Rockies. Willi

My wife and I are hoping to get to the Grand Canyon in 2 or 3 years, so unless in the meantime the Avs meet the Leafs in the playoffs, we may get our chance then. Peter

Response:

Despite the lack of hookups, one of the outcomes of the test, was the proof that we miss many strikes in typical bobber nymphing.  No way would I have detected some 20+ strikes in that water with a bobber. All true, however my tests are an attempt to challenge the conventional wisdom of nymphing, mainly ’cause it bores me to tears and I’m not very good at it (not necessarily in that order.)

Dead drifting nymphs in all its many variations, is the most effective and consistent way to catch trout in moving water, but it is not much fun if you’re doing it right unless you’re a madly possessed trout hunter. That’s why I do less and less of it, my mad possession is a thing of the distant past. Dead drifting nymphs requires alot of physical work, terminal tackle changing, concentration, etc. etc. etc. and because I do less and less of it, I’m not as good at it as I used to be. One technique I can suggest to you that is just a small variation on the tight line system you’re trying out. No bobber required!! It is an up, down and across presentation. The same or similar terminal rig as you’re using with your tight line system. The difference is that you need to keep an almost tight line, instead of a tight one. It does require quite a bit of mending, line retrieval etc. to keep the flies along the bottom and still have some contact with them.  The takes are usually pretty apparent either visually or by feel. You do need to vary the amount of weight with each new area you fish. I like this technique for big heavy water, especially in water with good stonefly populations. My test of swimming Hendricksons in slow water proved to me that fish also react quickly and aggressively to moving food even under conditions that enable them to get a good look at the imitation.  The taut line was no problem due to the aggressive take.  BTW, I frequently drag or skitter dries and pick up the odd fish, especially when it’s windy.

I do too, but over a season, don’t you take more fish on a dry fished drag free? I think the same holds true for nymphs. My test was conducted in some fairly heavy current and stained water so by rights, the fish should have been taking aggressively but I think the combo of a broadside presentation of a scud hook and taut line screwed me.  (The Hendricksons were mostly taken from behind.) Anyway, I still consider the test partially successful as it taught me a few things. Hoepfully on the weekend I’ll get a chance to try out the wobble nymphs on a typical streamer swing through the same water.  We’ll see what happens.

Since you’re a good streamer fisherman and know that technique well, I’m sure you’ll get some fish on nymphs fished in the same manner. Personally, I’d like to watch you fish streamers. I’ve never had the chance to fish with someone or watch someone effectively fish streamers to stream trout. Don’t see many people flinging streamers in the Rockies. Willi

Response:

As the nymph enters  she clamps down for probably two reasons, one she must be sure it’s  a nymph not debris, plus she has to kill it.  Nymphs can have  pretty good jaws, especially the big ones, and they can give a good nip.

Interesting, never occurred to me…. it does make you wonder what they think of the hook though, when they mouth it… So if I purposely design a mayfly nymph with the same characteristics of weight and eye placement, I should get the same wobble giving a reasonable facsimile of a swimming nymph.

I’ve seen video footage of nymphs tied in this manner moving in the water, and the wobbling action does look impressive.  Another thing you can do is check into the nymph hooks that have split wire near the eye that create a wide flat body.  Example: www.flytying.com/FlyTying/hookbook/xPARTRIDGE_MASTER/partridgeH3S T.html I haven’t tried this yet, but you got me interested again! * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

good post deleted. My experience is that with any tight line technique ( I assume you are talking about tight line technique and not a true dead drift one ), lots of fish are missed. Most of the fish you do hook, generally hook themselves. I also don’t find scud hooks as having the best hooking characteristics. That would explain quite a few misses but not 0 for 20 or 30. I think the main reason for the missed strikes is the presence of the tight line itself. Nymphs do not pull back and if they do, they are rejected quickly. This is ONE of the advantages to fishing a true dead drifted nymph.   The way a fish takes a nymph has to do with a number of different things including what nymphs the fish are feeding on, the depth they’re feeding at etc., but I believe the biggest factor is the speed and type of water. In pockets water and the heavy flows at the heads of pools, the strikes are quick and sharp.  This makes it much easier to fool and hook the fish. Fly selection is usually not very important. These are the same waters that work well with attractor dries. In areas of more sedate current, the nymphs are usually taken in a patient, manner allowing the fish to scrutinize the fly. This can result in more bumps, refusals, rejections, etc. and more missed strikes, very similar to "fussy" fish on a dry. I think the comparison to fishing dries holds true in other ways. Usually dead drifted dries are more effective than flies with drag or motion. The same applies to nymphs. Most nymphs are taken when they are drifting with the current, not when they are swimming. Caddis and stoneflies are the most frequent exceptions because the nymphs can be active swimmers and the adults active on the surface. Although a dead drifted nymph or dry may lack the movement trigger to elicit a strike, it will never be seen as unnatural. Drag or motion on a dry or a nymph will often be seen by the trout as unnatural. Willi

Response:

Although a dead drifted nymph or dry may lack the movement trigger to elicit a strike, it will never be seen as unnatural. Drag or motion on a dry or a nymph will often be seen by the trout as unnatural.

Willi, I agree drag is unnatural, but I don’t think Peter’s example of "wobbling" is unnatural, do you?  He was talking about "swimming" nymphs, but when you think about a flat bodied nymph, I think these do it too.  Is something like a Hare’s Ear really the best imitation?  It’s basically tied "round" – i.e. no matter which angle the trout sees it from, it appears broad, as if it were always seeing the broad, flat side of a natural.  That might be why it works.  But tying it to be shaped like a natural might give it a little wobbling motion.  Seems good to me. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – good post deleted. My experience is that with any tight line technique ( I assume you are talking about tight line technique and not a true dead drift one ), lots of fish are missed. Most of the fish you do hook, generally hook themselves. I also don’t find scud hooks as having the best hooking characteristics. That would explain quite a few misses but not 0 for 20 or 30. I think the main reason for the missed strikes is the presence of the tight line itself. Nymphs do not pull back and if they do, they are rejected quickly. This is ONE of the advantages to fishing a true dead drifted nymph.  

My original post was supposed to have a few sentences that explained that I had built the leader, added weight and the bead head precisely to get as taut a line as possible.  I knew that the taut line contributed to the problem.  I wrote this Friday night at my bro-in-law’s after numerous beers so I plead guilty to TWI.   Despite the lack of hookups, one of the outcomes of the test, was the proof that we miss many strikes in typical bobber nymphing.  No way would I have detected some 20+ strikes in that water with a bobber. The way a fish takes a nymph has to do with a number of different things including what nymphs the fish are feeding on, the depth they’re feeding at etc., but I believe the biggest factor is the speed and type of water. In pockets water and the heavy flows at the heads of pools, the strikes are quick and sharp.  This makes it much easier to fool and hook the fish. Fly selection is usually not very important. These are the same waters that work well with attractor dries. In areas of more sedate current, the nymphs are usually taken in a patient, manner allowing the fish to scrutinize the fly. This can result in more bumps, refusals, rejections, etc. and more missed strikes, very similar to "fussy" fish on a dry.

All true, however my tests are an attempt to challenge the conventional wisdom of nymphing, mainly ’cause it bores me to tears and I’m not very good at it (not necessarily in that order.)  My test of swimming Hendricksons in slow water proved to me that fish also react quickly and aggressively to moving food even under conditions that enable them to get a good look at the imitation.  The taut line was no problem due to the aggressive take.  BTW, I frequently drag or skitter dries and pick up the odd fish, especially when it’s windy. My test was conducted in some fairly heavy current and stained water so by rights, the fish should have been taking aggressively but I think the combo of a broadside presentation of a scud hook and taut line screwed me.  (The Hendricksons were mostly taken from behind.) Anyway, I still consider the test partially successful as it taught me a few things. I think the comparison to fishing dries holds true in other ways. Usually dead drifted dries are more effective than flies with drag or motion. The same applies to nymphs. Most nymphs are taken when they are drifting with the current, not when they are swimming. Caddis and stoneflies are the most frequent exceptions because the nymphs can be active swimmers and the adults active on the surface. Although a dead drifted nymph or dry may lack the movement trigger to elicit a strike, it will never be seen as unnatural. Drag or motion on a dry or a nymph will often be seen by the trout as unnatural. Willi

Hoepfully on the weekend I’ll get a chance to try out the wobble nymphs on a typical streamer swing through the same water.  We’ll see what happens. Peter

Response:

Some time back I wrote a piece about straight-line nymphing and about how I had a phenomenal hit rate and an abysmal hookup rate.  I swear that in one run I must have had something like 20 for 0 or 30 for 0 strikes to hookups.  I had a method that would enable me to detect strikes but I couldn’t hookup worth a damn.  Talk about frustration so I’ve put the method aside.  Two things have occurred since that have set me to thinking about straight-line nymphing again; I read that post Sandy put out about soft-bodied nymphs and my failure with a crayfish design that wobbled like a Red Devil on the retrieve.  These two events have given me a clue into a new type of fishing that could prove very successful. (I hope.)  I’m in the middle of my northern NT trip and with nothing to do on the long trip to Timmins, so I’m doing my best to use the time productively <g to try and figure out why my straight-line nymphing was a failure.  I’m not a biologist and I’ve never talked to one about this so read the following with that proviso.  I’ve been trying to visualize how a trout takes a nymph. A trout resting in her lie doesn’t really have to work hard for dinner.  The whole process must be a relaxed affair compared to a bass chasing and inhaling a minnow.  As a nymph drifts toward the lie, she slides out and slightly opens her mouth.  As the nymph enters she clamps down for probably two reasons, one she must be sure it’s a nymph not debris, plus she has to kill it.  Nymphs can have pretty good jaws, especially the big ones, and they can give a good nip.  So she slides back into her lie with the nymph, chomps it once or twice more, runs it over her tongue as a final check, and only then swallows it.  This is the key to Sandy’s foam nymphs, as a hard nymph will be rejected as phony after a couple of chomps.  It also explains why I couldn’t get hookups.  I was fishing with a tungsten bead head caddis tied on a scud hook.  This hook has a thick wire, large gape and short shank plus the bead and the firmly wound body were rock hard. Straight-line nymphing will present the fly broadside to the trout. So when a trout took it, the hook point probably hit its lower jaw and the fly canted sideways, so when the trout clamped down, the hook point was outside of its mouth.  I’ve seen smallmouth take a slow moving woolly bugger the same way.  Plus, if I delayed the hookset, the trout would reject the hard nymph.  So if I’m to get a nymph to work on a straight-line swing, the point has to get inside the trout’s mouth.  That means a small gape, long shank, thin wire hook.  It would also help if the trout would take it like a streamer – with gusto. Mayfly nymphs come in three varieties, burrowing, clinging, and swimming.  Burrowing nymphs, like Hexes, favour soft, silty, slow moving sections of rivers and only become active in low light, dusk, or at night, consequently they don’t give us much opportunity to exploit except during emergence.  Clinging mayfly nymphs and most stoneflies crawl about rocks and only infrequently move in open water except when migrating to emerge.  When a clinging nymph wants to move and find a new feeding spot, they release their hold on a rock and allow themselves to be swept along in the current, swimming only a little.  These are the most common nymphs that we imitate when we dead drift.  Some species time their moves so that an entire section of a river has all of one species of nymph drifting at about the same time. An effective strategy for reducing casualties to marauding trout. These trout have very flat bodies and strong, thick legs suitable clinging to rocks.  The third type of nymphs however, are excellent swimmers with elegant, long, thin bodies and thin swimming legs. These mayflies swim with an arched back and an undulating side-to-side motion that wriggle nymphs unsuccessfully try to imitate.  Unlike clingers, these nymphs should be moved to be lifelike.  A down-and-across streamer swing with a few small strips should do the job. Recently, I tried swimming Hendrickson nymphs and I was pleasantly surprised with the aggression that trout displayed when taking them. No subtle takes this time and the hookup rate was very high.  So if I combine a good swimming nymph pattern with a swinging presentation, the results should be good.  Back to the crayfish pattern.  I had used a jig hook and had weighted the shank near the gape.  On the retrieve, the combination of the upraised eye and low set weight resulted in the fly flipping over and wobbling like an old Red Devil.  So if I purposely design a mayfly nymph with the same characteristics of weight and eye placement, I should get the same wobble giving a reasonable facsimile of a swimming nymph.  Well, wish me luck with it, as once I’ve got over the worst of the NT install, I’m going to tie up some and swing them through some Grand River runs.

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Question:

Oh man.  Bears and goats and underwear and snakes and trees and…and….and…jeez!  What kind of people are you??!

Ya ain’t seen nothin’ ’till you’ve seen an ol’ rattler tryin’ to get his fangs loose from LaPlac’s shorts<g. — Charlie…

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ROFFLOL

Rolling Outdoors Fly Fishing Laughing Out Loud??? Regards, Jeff

Response:

(Hilarious stuff snipped) Steve, I sure hope you keep this up, ’cause I find myself wading through all the other stuff just to find your review (I also make certain that I have no comestibles in my mouth that might otherwise coat my monitor). Thanks for the levity. Bob

Response:

we need a new acronym because ROTFLMBO is and understatement after reading this weeks report.

How about  LSHIPM  (Laughing So Hard I Pissed Myself) Though this appropriate thanks to the go potty post. Peter

Response:

ROFFLOL

Monday April 24th Discussion of a cleaner, gentler version of ROFF continues this week

<and cetera

Response:

much good snippeded.. Walt, far beit for me to call into question your sage advise, but on Upper Creek the odds of seeing is pretty fair; however, the odds of being bitten is anyone’s guess!  Caution is emphasized!  In addition to everything else I own, I ,always, carry a snake bite kit. Which leads me to another thought: Are there any good sherpas coming to the Clave! Opie and so are the snakes. i’d like to emphasize that the odds of seeing,

snippage… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – a serpent is extremely remote, the situation does exist so take a little bit more care than usual moving up a stream, especially where you put your hands when climbing. waldo

Response:

C… leaves are coming out… and so are the snakes….

Oh man.  Bears and goats and underwear and snakes and trees and…and….and…jeez!  What kind of people are you??!

Response:

By midweek they’re drinking Metamucil instead of scotch and crashing at 9 o’clock.

But up plenty early to see PJ drag *your* ass out of bed<g. — Charlie…

Response:

By midweek they’re drinking Metamucil instead of scotch and crashing at 9 o’clock. But up plenty early to see PJ drag *your* ass out of bed<g. — Charlie…

which is well worth the price of admission also…. although jeff, mark, and i got some serious fishing done this past week, there’s still plenty left to do. the best moment i had was on a little feeder stream in the wilson watershed… jeff, after much ado, standing in a small waterfall, bow & arrowed a stimulator through a tight gauntlet of rhodo into a small stone faced pool …. he was rewarded with a truly beautiful wild brown of about 10-12 inches and i was rewarded with the satisfaction of  viewing a well done presentation in a damn near impossible scenario. way to go jeffie, you’ve earned your small stream badge one other note of import…. spring is here… leaves are coming out… and so are the snakes. i’d like to emphasize that the odds of seeing, much less being bitten by a serpent is extremely remote, the situation does exist so take a little bit more care than usual moving up a stream, especially where you put your hands when climbing. waldo

Response:

< great stuff snipped With blatant disregard for the feelings of those who won’t be arriving at the clave until later in the week, Tom Brown posts the Clave Kickoff menu, generating a collective outporing of drool not experienced since Greg Pavlov’s last post. …

For future reference, it’s been my observation that it’s best to arrive at a ‘Clave as early as possible. Tom’s Opening Ceremonies feast is one good reason, another is that the geezers are still able to party and socialize a bit early in the week. By midweek they’re drinking Metamucil instead of scotch and crashing at 9 o’clock. — Ken Fortenberry

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Definitely first class synopsis and commentary Steve.  Hope you will continue the weekly satire.

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Monday April 24th [snip] Meanwhile the Dueling Daves (Tripper and LaCourse) get in an argument about who could wade the best back when they were both healthy enough to actually fish standing up. [snip] And that’s the week that was. Until next time, –Steve

we need a new acronym because ROTFLMBO is and understatement after reading this weeks report.

Response:

Monday April 24th Discussion of a cleaner, gentler version of ROFF continues this week

        oh, hell, man, this was terrific.  but not accurate.  i am the guy in charge of getting the *t-shirt* put together.  my little boy is the designer.  and louie laplac is the hat guy. wayno, always a stickler for the truth.

Response:

oh, hell, man, this was terrific.  but not accurate.  i am the guy in charge of getting the *t-shirt* put together.  my little boy is the designer.  and louie laplac is the hat guy.

Aw, crap. I knew that. My bad. Sorry LaCourse. –Steve

Response:

Aw, crap. I knew that. My bad. Sorry LaCourse.

Here’s a way to help you remember: when you think hat, think head. That leads to head up the ass, which leads to Forty. Since nobody would ever wear a hat designed by Forty, it has to be LaPlac! <g — Charlie…

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Totally freaking hilarious, Steve. You’ve founf your calling. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Totally freaking hilarious, Steve. You’ve founf your calling.

I agree.  I love reading Steve’s new week review.  :-) — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

Monday April 24th Discussion of a cleaner, gentler version of ROFF continues this week with topics falling into the following general categories: (1) Newbies are idiots; (2) People who call newbies idiots are idiots (3) People who whine about calling newbies idiots are idiots (4) People who get upset at those who whine about newbies being called idiots are idiots. Meanwhile the Dueling Daves (Tripper and LaCourse) get in an argument about who could wade the best back when they were both healthy enough to actually fish standing up. Vern suggests a new idea for a "telecopying" wading staff that will apparently allow you to send and receive lewd FAXes while fishing instead of having to sit on the cold copy machine at the office. Tuesday April 25th BillyFish exposes fly fishing’s dirty little secret (literally) when he poses the question "how do you go potty when you’re on a float tube in the middle of a lake?" Noted suggestions include: (1) soil yourself and change clothes when you get back to the car–Ken Fortenberry; (2) Wade wet and no one will know–Charlie Choc; (3) use the "Stadium Pal", which consists of three parts: an external catheter worn like a condom, a flexible hose, and a collection bag worn on the inner calf–Frank Reid. Incidentally, the Stadium Pal Web site provides a helpful sizing template you can use to determine what size catheter is the best fit–see http://www.stadiumpal.com/sizer.htm for details. NOTE to Muskie: don’t worry about printing out the template–the 23mm size should give you plenty of room to grow. Wednesday April 26th Political debate of the relative advantages of stiff versus limp resurfaces, with Democrats advocating a stiff leader and Republicans calling for a limp leader, for obvious reasons. The Roadless Initiative issue (aka the Ted Turner plan) is discussed, with several interesting facts being brought to the attention of the group: (1) 98 percent of the earth’s surface is covered in asphalt; (2) animals that have been seen by man are not wild–by definition–so therefore there is no proof that wild animals have ever existed; (3) The West is full of fat people passing themselves off as outdoorsmen. Thursday April 27th Planning for the upcoming Carolina Clave reaches a fever pitch. The Dueling Daves finally call a truce to their wader argument and begin fighting over how long it will take them to get to the Clave. Fortunately for everyone else, the thread quickly morphs into a YAWTDIYSABT (Yet Another What To Do If You See A Bear Thread). With blatant disregard for the feelings of those who won’t be arriving at the clave until later in the week, Tom Brown posts the Clave Kickoff menu, generating a collective outporing of drool not experienced since Greg Pavlov’s last post. With Wayne Harrison–this year’s Carolina Clave Hat Designer–not around for much of the week, speculation abounds that the Clave hat will be adorned with the familiar Born-Again-ROFFian acronym "WWJD", which of course stands for "What Would Jehrke Do?". We’ll have to await his response to see if these rumors are accurate. Friday April 28th Indian Joe has graciously offered to provide the meat for the Clave Chili (aka Chili con Carnage). Apparently he’ll also be providing the chopped tomatoes, left over from the Clave meal he prepared in October. A discussion of Claves for the Next Millenium (aka 2001) begins, with suggestions for California (are there fish left in California?) and Florida (are you allowed to fish at Disney World?) being offered as suggestions. Unfortunately, yours truly cannot in good faith accept the nomination as Florida Clavemeister because, well, I get *really* seasick standing in a boat and I think Steve Spurrier is Satan. Saturday April 29th Someone asks a question about strike indicators and receives plenty of advice, not the least on-topic of which is that you just gotta see the movie "U-571." By now it has become obvious from the repeated trip reports presented by Waldo and Jeffy that they are trying to fish their brains out this week and next, knowing full well that all fish within 150 miles of Boone will be permanently spooked during the week of May 7th due to increase alcohol and urine content in the water during that time. They also must have seen the weather reports for that week which report scattered Fortenberries. And finally, Dave LaCourse shares with ROFF the fact that "you do not need a prostate to pee straight or have sex." Which begs the question: why even bother to get your prostate checked if you can still do those two things? But seriously everyone, if you’re over 40 don’t forget to Turn-and-Cough and Jiffy-Lube once a year. And that’s the week that was. Until next time, –Steve

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Question:

i like fester’s sense of humor and great bulkwark against the adam and steve crowd

I saw the Titrantic movie but thought it was too long.

what about tantric religion? oh and here are some websites on sex and religion:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?o=1&p=sex+and+religion&d=y&za=and&h=c&… 0 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter Zimmerman The "Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance"  provide accurate information on various religions,  and expose groundless religious hatred.  Web site http://www.religioustolerance.org

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and the former baptist looking into episcopal church says, "gentleman PLEASE! more decorum!" on sodomy: yes quigle, you can "be episcopal and be gay" guess what? over 30 christian denominations have active gay movements in them..even the muslim religion now has one. Peter Zimmerman

Fester thinks you should go back to the bath house and quit trying to pollute religion with your gross sexual perversions. If you want to be religious fine, if you want to be a pervert fine. But don’t try to pervert religion with your gross sexual perversion.

Response:

I saw the Titrantic movie but thought it was too long.

what about tantric religion? oh and here are some websites on sex and religion:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?o=1&p=sex+and+religion&d=y&za=and&h=c&… 0 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter Zimmerman The "Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance"  provide accurate information on various religions,  and expose groundless religious hatred.  Web site http://www.religioustolerance.org

Response:

what about tantric religion? oh and here are some websites on sex and religion: http://search.yahoo.com/search?o=1&p=sex+and+religion&d=y&za=and&h=c&… Peter Zimmerman The "Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance"  provide accurate information on various religions,  and expose groundless religious hatred.  Web site http://www.religioustolerance.org

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Will The Real Episcopalian please stand up?   I have been lurking here for a short time and this is my first posting. Nearly all the threads I have followed here sound far from episcopalian. eg. jehovah witness prosoletyzing spam eg. creation vs. evolution, this is not a problem for anglicans. eg.  "religious"  right wing rantings about PRESIDENT Clinton, and "sodomites" eg.  discussions about the writings of Tim LaHaye,  not exactly Richard Hooker.

My thoughts exactly.  The Episcopal Church I know is one where God is worshipped, and love of God and neighbor are, again and again, brought to our attention as the two great commandments.   And it’s a place where people of widely diverse understandings get together and are willing to discuss the hard questions in an atmosphere of mutual respect and the love of Christ.  It is a place where there is an almost quixotic insistence that ALL Christians share a common faith.  And a place where, once the discussion ends, we all wish each other peace, and kneel (or stand) at a common table and partake of Christ. This place seems to be endless sniping and name-calling.  Absolutely the opposite of what this church is. No wonder we confess our sins three times a day.

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Please, spammers go elsewhere and allow REAL Episcopalians discuss their church and faith and practice in peace. thank you,  A Real Episcopalian

Nope, I heard it here, we can be totally depraved sodomites, and as long as we "pray the same" we’re all Episcopalians!!!! Fester, A Real Episcopalian

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Fester Quigle, says… Please, spammers go elsewhere and allow REAL Episcopalians discuss their church and faith and practice in peace. thank you,  A Real Episcopalian Nope, I heard it here, we can be totally depraved sodomites, and as long as we "pray the same" we’re all Episcopalians!!!! Fester, A Real Episcopalian

Go to Dallas!

Response:

Will The Real Episcopalian please stand up? I have been lurking here for a short time and this is my first posting. Nearly all the threads I have followed here sound far from episcopalian. eg. jehovah witness prosoletyzing spam eg. creation vs. evolution, this is not a problem for anglicans. eg.  "religious"  right wing rantings about PRESIDENT Clinton, and "sodomites" eg.  discussions about the writings of Tim LaHaye,  not exactly Richard Hooker. Please, spammers go elsewhere and allow REAL Episcopalians discuss their church and faith and practice in peace. thank you,  A Real Episcopalian

Having contributed to at least one of the threads that you find offensive, I would like to say that other Episcopalians, whether they are Evangelicals (which I am NOT) or conservative traditionalists (which I AM) have as much right to discuss topics of interest to them within this newsgroup as you do to make the outlandish assertion that only you and people who think as you do should set the agenda in each and every thread.  What an ego!!!  I’ll keep you in mind at evening prayer services today. Regards

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Will The Real Episcopalian please stand up? I have been lurking here for a short time and this is my first posting. Nearly all the threads I have followed here sound far from episcopalian. eg. jehovah witness prosoletyzing spam eg. creation vs. evolution, this is not a problem for anglicans. eg.  "religious"  right wing rantings about PRESIDENT Clinton, and "sodomites" eg.  discussions about the writings of Tim LaHaye,  not exactly Richard Hooker. Please, spammers go elsewhere and allow REAL Episcopalians discuss their church and faith and practice in peace. thank you,  A Real Episcopalian Having contributed to at least one of the threads that you find offensive, I would like to say that other Episcopalians, whether they are Evangelicals (which I am NOT) or conservative traditionalists (which I AM) have as much right to discuss topics of interest to them within this newsgroup as you do to make the outlandish assertion that only you and people who think as you do should set the agenda in each and every thread.  What an ego!!!  I’ll keep you in mind at evening prayer services today. Regards

Bruce, dahling, will you be passing this poisonous prayer at the Church of the Heavenlty Taste, where there is wine list at communion? Be sure to try the traditional St. James Stanton Port with the Stilton flavored hosts. You’ll want to go back for seconds! See you there, SON O GOD

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Will The Real Episcopalian please stand up? I have been lurking here for a short time and this is my first posting. Nearly all the threads I have followed here sound far from episcopalian. eg. jehovah witness prosoletyzing spam eg. creation vs. evolution, this is not a problem for anglicans. eg.  "religious"  right wing rantings about PRESIDENT Clinton, and "sodomites" eg.  discussions about the writings of Tim LaHaye,  not exactly Richard Hooker. Please, spammers go elsewhere and allow REAL Episcopalians discuss their church and faith and practice in peace. thank you,  A Real Episcopalian Having contributed to at least one of the threads that you find offensive, I would like to say that other Episcopalians, whether they are Evangelicals (which I am NOT) or conservative traditionalists (which I AM) have as much right to discuss topics of interest to them within this newsgroup as you do to make the outlandish assertion that only you and people who think as you do should set the agenda in each and every thread.  What an ego!!!  I’ll keep you in mind at evening prayer services today. Regards Bruce, dahling, will you be passing this poisonous prayer at the Church of the Heavenlty Taste, where there is wine list at communion? Be sure to try the traditional St. James Stanton Port with the Stilton flavored hosts. You’ll want to go back for seconds! See you there, SON O GOD

Little Willy Wantland sez….  "Be sure to ask for the genuine Eau Claire, Wisconsin Stilton   flavored hosts. Do not accept any substitutes!"

Response:

Bruce, dahling, will you be passing this poisonous prayer at the Church of the Heavenlty Taste, where there is wine list at communion? Be sure to try the traditional St. James Stanton Port with the Stilton flavored hosts. You’ll want to go back for seconds!

Tsk, tsk, tsk.  How little  Son O God understands of us Episcopalians!  We hold services only at the most upscale of churches – mine is the Church of the 18th Hole – and of course we would not deign to use anything other than the finest Bordeau vintages and biscotti at communion. bokononist — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

Tsk, tsk, tsk.  How little  Son O God understands of us Episcopalians! We hold services only at the most upscale of churches – mine is the Church of the 18th Hole – and of course we would not deign to use anything other than the finest Bordeau vintages and biscotti at communion.

bokononist – old pal!  It’s been a long time!!  How’s about another round of golf next time you’re in town? See you at the Church of the Hole-in-One! By the way, you still haven’t paid up your debt from our last game. Regards

Response:

What a cheap use of sarcasm…you two enjoy youselves on the links!!!  I’ll fly fish and thank God I’m there!  Peace to you all!!

We’re related. Regards

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tsk, tsk, tsk.  How little  Son O God understands of us Episcopalians! We hold services only at the most upscale of churches – mine is the Church of the 18th Hole – and of course we would not deign to use anything other than the finest Bordeau vintages and biscotti at communion. bokononist – old pal!  It’s been a long time!!  How’s about another round of golf next time you’re in town? See you at the Church of the Hole-in-One! By the way, you still haven’t paid up your debt from our last game.

What a cheap use of sarcasm…you two enjoy youselves on the links!!!  I’ll fly fish and thank God I’m there!  Peace to you all!!

Response:

Little Willy Wantland sez….  "Be sure to ask for the genuine Eau Claire, Wisconsin Stilton   flavored hosts. Do not accept any substitutes!"

You CAN do better than that, I hope?  At this rate – you would not qualify for admission to a Mississippi Baptist high school (shudderat the thought).  You are welcome to try again, however. bokononist — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

and the former baptist looking into episcopal church says, "gentleman PLEASE! more decorum!" on sodomy: yes quigle, you can "be episcopal and be gay" guess what? over 30 christian denominations have active gay movements in them..even the muslim religion now has one. Peter Zimmerman The "Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance"  provide accurate information on various religions,  and expose groundless religious hatred.  Web site http://www.religioustolerance.org

Response:

Will The Real Episcopalian please stand up?    I have been lurking here for a short time and this is my first posting. Nearly all the threads I have followed here sound far from episcopalian. eg. jehovah witness prosoletyzing spam eg. creation vs. evolution, this is not a problem for anglicans. eg.  "religious"  right wing rantings about PRESIDENT Clinton, and "sodomites" eg.  discussions about the writings of Tim LaHaye,  not exactly Richard Hooker. Please, spammers go elsewhere and allow REAL Episcopalians discuss their church and faith and practice in peace. thank you,  A Real Episcopalian

Response:

Question:

I’ve driven all over the country and seen some mighty fine independent outdoor shops. Long-time owner-operated, hardwood floors, hand-picked stock, great stuff, great stories, multi-generation shops. Let’s wake up folks. These shops are going the way of the dodo. The chains and BAD shops are taking over. Maybe one way we can STOP this sad trend is to make a list of our favorite shops nationwide. Then stop by when we’re in the area. Maybe go on drives to see these treasures! One selfish reason of mine to do this is that I haven’t taken a big road trip lately and I’d like to go revisit some of those great ole shops. OK, I forgot where some of them were. Of course, you know that outdoor sport shops aren’t the only disappearing dodos in civilized retail. Quality independent restaurants, hardware stores and bookshops are in the same boat. Maybe there’s a way we can rescue them all at once? Putting the word out about where there are can’t be a bad way to start. — Jeff Potter   !.com   delete ‘DELETETHIS!’ to reply ***"Out Your Backdoor": Friendly Magazine of DIY Adventure and Culture        http://www.glpbooks.com/oyb … with a full line of books, bookstore & forum

Response:

The chains and BAD shops are taking over. Maybe one way we can STOP this sad trend is to make a list of our favorite shops nationwide. Then stop by when we’re in the area.

My experience so far is that the typical chain store doesn’t carry the best outdoor gear… i.e. they will have Timberland boots but not Vasque or Asolo… But in Birmingham Alabama I would recommend Alabama Outdoor and Roger’s Trading Co.  I have to say, though, that one of my favorite things to do in Atlanta is visit REI, and I think they are a great place to get gear. cordwood

Response:

In the Dallas Texas Area, look to: Backwoods  (corner of Coit and Campbell roads, Richardson) <–also carry flyfishing gear, woohoo! Mountain Hideout Lover’s Lane, just a block West of the Dallas North tollway We have an REI in town, but I like these stores better, they go out of their way for you, whether you are asking for an expensive tent, a pair of $18 socks, or even $2 zipper pulls. In Dayton, Ohio, go to General Surplus, don’t have the address. — Matt Blickensderfer * A Grouchy German is a Sour Kraut! *

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve driven all over the country and seen some mighty fine independent outdoor shops. Long-time owner-operated, hardwood floors, hand-picked stock, great stuff, great stories, multi-generation shops. Let’s wake up folks. These shops are going the way of the dodo. The chains and BAD shops are taking over. Maybe one way we can STOP this sad trend is to make a list of our favorite shops nationwide. Then stop by when we’re in the area. Maybe go on drives to see these treasures! One selfish reason of mine to do this is that I haven’t taken a big road trip lately and I’d like to go revisit some of those great ole shops. OK, I forgot where some of them were. Of course, you know that outdoor sport shops aren’t the only disappearing dodos in civilized retail. Quality independent restaurants, hardware stores and bookshops are in the same boat. Maybe there’s a way we can rescue them all at once? Putting the word out about where there are can’t be a bad way to start. — Jeff Potter   !.com   delete ‘DELETETHIS!’ to reply ***"Out Your Backdoor": Friendly Magazine of DIY Adventure and Culture       http://www.glpbooks.com/oyb … with a full line of books, bookstore

& forum

Response:

Question:

More importantly, where does she fish, where are her favorite pools, and does she prefer wine or Scotch?  Godiva chocolates are always appropriate. Wayne to fish is human…to release divine. This is becoming another Urban Legend. Just who exactly is this phantom drop dead gorgeous fly fishing model? Names please! And just where is this cabin so when I’m in the neighborhood I can drop by and say "howdy, Ma’am". -John

Response:

Whoa, Charlie….let’s think this through a little bit.  Sure, I wouldn’t mind an afternoon on-stream with Lefty, but you distinctly said spending an *evening* with the model.  Want to reconsider?

Nope. You can spend an evening listening to someone talk about their makeup if you like, though. The next morning I’ll know a lot more about fishing and you’ll be convinced that if she hadn’t had to go home early to wash her hair, you could have scored<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Hi all, I’ll go home and get the magazine from my wife this weekend and post whatever information it contains next Monday…  I’m only telling y’all what my wife told me!  If it’s not too long, maybe I’ll post excerpts from the article. Other than that, given a choice between spending the weekend with a model or Lefty Kreh, I’d definitely say I’d have to take Lefty.  That way I’d still be alive when I got home as it might be difficult to flyfish while my wife is shooting at me. Happy New Year! Tom This is becoming another Urban Legend. Just who exactly is this phantom drop dead gorgeous fly fishing model? Names please! And just where is this cabin so when I’m in the neighborhood I can drop by and say "howdy, Ma’am". -John

– Thomas Chou International Sensor Technology 3 Whatney Irvine, CA 92618 Ph: 949.452.9316 Fx: 949.452.9009 www.gotgas.com

Response:

but if she is half the person Left is that would make a wonderful evening discussing fishign and tying! Thought I was gonna be rude there didn’t you <g Pierre – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, I’d rather spend an evening with Lefty than with a fashion model. Not sure about Lefty in drag, though<g. — Charlie… Oh come now man, get your priorities straight.  I’d rather spend an "evening" with the model, I’d rather spend the weekend with Lefty. Oh am I in trouble when I get home tonight.  :-) Later,      - Ken

Response:

EWWWWWWWWWWWWWW Charlie ol boy you just made a terrible mistake!!!! Sexist comments like that are really gonna bring the house down..Besides who says that natural beauty needs help?? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Whoa, Charlie….let’s think this through a little bit.  Sure, I wouldn’t mind an afternoon on-stream with Lefty, but you distinctly said spending an *evening* with the model.  Want to reconsider? Nope. You can spend an evening listening to someone talk about their makeup if you like, though. The next morning I’ll know a lot more about fishing and you’ll be convinced that if she hadn’t had to go home early to wash her hair, you could have scored<g. — Charlie…

Response:

but if she is half the person Left is that would make a wonderful evening discussing fishign and tying! Thought I was gonna be rude there didn’t you <g Pierre

Actually, the comparison I was making was an evening with Lefty vs an evening with a ‘regular’ model, not the ‘mythical’ fishing lady in the ad. The supposition was made in an earlier post that the ad was a fake (since I haven’t seen it I have no opinion on that). Given the choice between the ‘fishing lady model’ and Lefty, I’d probably still go with Lefty though, but the choice would be more difficult<g. — Charlie…

Response:

More importantly, where does she fish, where are her favorite pools, and does she prefer wine or Scotch?  Godiva chocolates are always appropriate.

OK, but what size hook should you tie the chocolates onto?  Standard nymph, wide-gape bassin’ hook, ram it onto the post on that funny Partridge parachute hook, or what?  Maybe a dry fly hook, and drown the whole concoction (confection? in Gink?  Inquiring minds…  :-) — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

Response:

EWWWWWWWWWWWWWW Charlie ol boy you just made a terrible mistake!!!! Sexist comments like that are really gonna bring the house down..Besides who says that natural beauty needs help??

Have you ever talked to a model, of either sex? The ones I have are mostly interested in their looks and the makeup that helps them ‘enhance’ their looks. My comment wasn’t intended to be sexist, just anti-model<g. Maybe I just ran into a few bad apples. — Charlie…

Response:

This is becoming another Urban Legend. Just who exactly is this phantom drop dead gorgeous fly fishing model? Names please! And just where is this cabin so when I’m in the neighborhood I can drop by and say "howdy, Ma’am".

Not to worry, we’re trying to line her up as a "greeter" at our new flyfishing theme cafe next spring.  Dates and locations to be announced… Cheers, Tony Ritter

Response:

But Tom….what a way to go!!! Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’ll go home and get the magazine from my wife this weekend and post whatever information it contains next Monday…  I’m only telling y’all what my wife told me!  If it’s not too long, maybe I’ll post excerpts from the article. Other than that, given a choice between spending the weekend with a model or Lefty Kreh, I’d definitely say I’d have to take Lefty.  That way I’d still be alive when I got home as it might be difficult to flyfish while my wife is shooting at me. Happy New Year! Tom This is becoming another Urban Legend. Just who exactly is this phantom drop dead gorgeous fly fishing model? Names please! And just where is this cabin so when I’m in the neighborhood I can drop by and say "howdy, Ma’am". -John — Thomas Chou International Sensor Technology 3 Whatney Irvine, CA 92618 Ph: 949.452.9316 Fx: 949.452.9009 www.gotgas.com

Response:

Bob,     Its somethig akin to grappling catfish on the Mississippi.  Not a matter of a hook, although a good line doesn’t hurt.  Sometimes its more the line you cast than the bait you use. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -OK, but what size hook should you tie the chocolates onto?  Standard nymph, wide-gape bassin’ hook, ram it onto the post on that funny Partridge parachute hook, or what?  Maybe a dry fly hook, and drown the whole concoction (confection? in Gink?  Inquiring minds…  :-) — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

Response:

Ladies! Feel free to wade in and help us out here! Wayne To fish is human…to release divine.

Response:

Ladies! Feel free to wade in and help us out here!

Oh, I think you’re doing a splendid job! Okay, here’s a new topic. Hasanyone read that David Leitz murder mystery novel about the model photo shoot at a fly fishing lodge… here it is: _Dying to Fly Fish_? — Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Disclaimer: Pushing 40 and born in Fredericton, NB

Response:

George G: like you – and me? George, dogs chase cars, but they don’t know how to drive. d;0) Dave L.

Response:

JR, The main model for the Estee Lauder commercial *can* cast.  She has in fact devoted a great portion of her life to flyfishing.  The story goes like this (abbreviated, of course.  This is the story my wife told me she read in a recent mag article about this)…  She made some money modeling when she was younger, invested it well, and took up flyfishing with some other members of her family.  She is the only one who pursued it with a passion, which she still does, while the others gave it up.  She ties her own flies, owns a cabin by a river, she’s rich, and beautiful… and like I’ve said before, I’ve got dibs.  She is currently around 56 years old.  Now that’s a great looking 56 year old lady, don’t you think?! Hope this clears things up. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Saw the commercial while watching NYPD Blue.  Sorry guys, but anyone who says his streams in Alberta, N.C., wherever, are crawling with women who look like the model in this commercial, well, no offense, but he lies like a dog.  And her clothes (this all started about her clothes, no?)–well, I’m can’t remember what sort of clothes she had.  Pretty sure, though, that she was wearing clothes. The question is, is this babe a for real fly fisher or not?  The last, long, overhead shot shows a pretty good casting stroke, but this could have been a stand-in.  The stroke in the close-up shots is less convincing.  As for the other obvious questions, I leave those up to the congregation….. JR

Response:

The main model for the Estee Lauder commercial *can* cast.  She has in fact devoted a great portion of her life to flyfishing.

David Hinner’s post of 12/30/98 credits Pixar Studios with the creative morphing of Lefty Kreh into the "Beaverkill Bombshell". Tom – he *does* have a wonderful sense of humor – but are you *sure* you still want that date? Cheers, Tony Ritter

Response:

The main model for the Estee Lauder commercial *can* cast.  She has in fact devoted a great portion of her life to flyfishing. David Hinner’s post of 12/30/98 credits Pixar Studios with the creative morphing of Lefty Kreh into the "Beaverkill Bombshell". Tom – he *does* have a wonderful sense of humor – but are you *sure* you still want that date?

Actually, I’d rather spend an evening with Lefty than with a fashion model. Not sure about Lefty in drag, though<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Actually, I’d rather spend an evening with Lefty than with a fashion model. Not sure about Lefty in drag, though<g. — Charlie…

Oh come now man, get your priorities straight.  I’d rather spend an "evening" with the model, I’d rather spend the weekend with Lefty. Oh am I in trouble when I get home tonight.  :-) Later,      - Ken

Response:

The main model for the Estee Lauder commercial *can* cast.  She has in fact devoted a great portion of her life to flyfishing.  The story goes like this (abbreviated, of course.  This is the story my wife told me she read in a recent mag article about this)…

At the risk of spreading disappointment and gloom, I must point out that not everything you read in a magazine, newspaper or book is Gospel Truth– especially stuff about movie stars, models, athletes, business firms, products, politicians….. Agents and PR firms earn their money by cranking out stuff to create interest in their clients and make them look good. vince norris  She made some money modeling when she was – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -younger, invested it well, and took up flyfishing with some other members of her family.  She is the only one who pursued it with a passion, which she still does, while the others gave it up.  She ties her own flies, owns a cabin by a river, she’s rich, and beautiful… and like I’ve said before, I’ve got dibs.  She is currently around 56 years old.  Now that’s a great looking 56 year old lady, don’t you think?! Hope this clears things up. Tom Saw the commercial while watching NYPD Blue.  Sorry guys, but anyone who says his streams in Alberta, N.C., wherever, are crawling with women who look like the model in this commercial, well, no offense, but he lies like a dog.  And her clothes (this all started about her clothes, no?)–well, I’m can’t remember what sort of clothes she had.  Pretty sure, though, that she was wearing clothes. The question is, is this babe a for real fly fisher or not?  The last, long, overhead shot shows a pretty good casting stroke, but this could have been a stand-in.  The stroke in the close-up shots is less convincing.  As for the other obvious questions, I leave those up to the congregation….. JR

Response:

Whoa, Charlie….let’s think this through a little bit.  Sure, I wouldn’t mind an afternoon on-stream with Lefty, but you distinctly said spending an *evening* with the model.  Want to reconsider? Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The main model for the Estee Lauder commercial *can* cast.  She has in fact devoted a great portion of her life to flyfishing. David Hinner’s post of 12/30/98 credits Pixar Studios with the creative morphing of Lefty Kreh into the "Beaverkill Bombshell". Tom – he *does* have a wonderful sense of humor – but are you *sure* you still want that date? Actually, I’d rather spend an evening with Lefty than with a fashion model. Not sure about Lefty in drag, though<g. — Charlie…

Response:

JR, The main model for the Estee Lauder commercial *can* cast.  She has in fact devoted a great portion of her life to flyfishing.  The story goes like this (abbreviated, of course.  This is the story my wife told me she read in a recent mag article about this)…  She made some money modeling when she was younger, invested it well, and took up flyfishing with some other members of her family.  She is the only one who pursued it with a passion, which she still does, while the others gave it up.  She ties her own flies, owns a cabin by a river, she’s rich, and beautiful… and like I’ve said before, I’ve got dibs.  She is currently around 56 years old.  Now that’s a great looking 56 year old lady, don’t you think?! Hope this clears things up. Tom snip

This is becoming another Urban Legend. Just who exactly is this phantom drop dead gorgeous fly fishing model? Names please! And just where is this cabin so when I’m in the neighborhood I can drop by and say "howdy, Ma’am". -John

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bait for what, George?  They want us to buy Estee Lauder products?  OK, I’m going to find some, some…(some what?), I don’t know, some face cream or something, and see if it floats a fly better than Gink. Then I make a fortune, the model falls for me (and all my money), and we live and fish happily ever after.  Drinking Famous Grouse. …Fade out…. The End. (The crowd goes wild.) JR

"They," are the gutem & eatum boys.  THEY, want you to use garden hackle and sinful things like ‘indicators!’ (Perish the Thought!)  Then they want to catch you making out with that doll that’s been all Ginked up like a sweaty latin lover and print those pictures here on ROFF, heaven forbid!  Well, fear not J.R. because here comes Wayno, the barrister of all time to defend you. Naturally, his fee is going to be a case of Famous Grouse and as you sit there in handcuffs at the ROFF Conclave, we are all going to drink every bit of it while you watch.  But, again, fear not!  This Buds’ for you. (This group isn’t THAT cold hearted pal.) ; )  Don’t you just love it here J.R.? We sure enough love you. Happy New Year.  Remember always –  After midnight when you’ve got her all sauced up – ‘gink keeps it up’ oh my gosh, did I say that? whew!  Doesn’t get any better then this. HAPPPPPPPPPPYYYYYYYYYYY New Year J.R.! fade out because I just passed out. — George Gehrke All Writings

Question:

Your cleaning method appears sound, but I would definitely do it by hand and stay away from any washing machine, no matter how "gentle" the cycle may be. Regards from Montreal John Brkich

Response:

I would second this recommendation….after trying some others.  The only thing that I would add is that you can purchase a product specifically designed to clean neoprene waders (I forget which company makes it…Simms, I believe)…but I’ve just used liquid soap.  I have a den with a bathroom/shower that is just off of the garage.  When I come back from fishing, if I notice that my waders are getting a bit "foul", I put them in the shower for cleaning.  By putting them on inside out, it’s easy to wash them and ensure that you’ve not skipped anything.  In fact, when I do such a washing, I usually do both the inside and outside…then hang them in the den and over a large plastic bucket to catch water.  It works well. Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Put them on inside out, and wash them in the shower. Neoprene is a closed cell foam, so the odor should just be on the surface. My neoprene waders are getting so funky even I don’t want to put them on anymore.  Is there a way to wash them -the insides especially- and if so, what works the best? I was thinking of using Woolite and putting them on gentle cycle, but…..I’lll ask the experts first. pete

Response:

On the way home from a trip, I stop by a neighborhood do-it-yourself car wash. For $2 and 10 minutes I get clean waders (inside and out), clean felt on my wading boots, and no sand residue on the inside of the boots (which can wear the neoprene bootie). It’s also a good time to clean up the beer cooler! Jerry Donovan, Littleton, Colo. My neoprene waders are getting so funky even I don’t want to put them on anymore.  Is there a way to wash them -the insides especially- and if so, what works the best? I was thinking of using Woolite and putting them on gentle cycle, but…..I’lll ask the experts first. pete

(just kiddin) but its the way I fly fish. — George Gehrke All Writings

Question:

I may be relocating to Baltimore sometime this summer. Are there any good fly-fishing clubs there that I could hook up with? — Stefan M.   Arlington, Texas Web Page: http://rampages.onramp.net/~smarc

Hi Stefan Call the Federation of Fly Fishers at 800-618-0808 or visit their web sight at http://www.wsa.com/ool/fff.html. They can provide information about the affiliate club closest to you. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

I may be relocating to Baltimore sometime this summer. Are there any good fly-fishing clubs there that I could hook up with? — Stefan M.   Arlington, Texas Web Page: http://rampages.onramp.net/~smarc

Response:

Question:

Hope some people can help me out with some feedback. I have heard some good, some bad news about St.Croix rods. I personally own a 13′ float rod from St.Croix and enjoy using it quite alot. However, I am interested in purchasing 1 or 2 flyrods, (one for steelhead, and another for some 4/5 weight summer dry flyfishing). Before I plunk my cash down for a St.Croix, are they any users out there that would recommend (or not) purchasing a St.Croix? Thanks in advance for your feedback. colin

Colin, I recently purchased a St. Croix Imperial 8 wt. travel rod.  I used it in Grand Cayman to bonefish.  I love it.  My guide did some casting with it and is going to buy one himself. Tom Conner

Response:

Hope some people can help me out with some feedback. I have heard some good, some bad news about St.Croix rods. I personally own a 13′ float rod from St.Croix and enjoy using it quite alot. However, I am interested in purchasing 1 or 2 flyrods, (one for steelhead, and another for some 4/5 weight summer dry flyfishing). Before I plunk my cash down for a St.Croix, are they any users out there that would recommend (or not) purchasing a St.Croix? Thanks in advance for your feedback. colin

Response:

Hi Colin:         Like you I have a 13 foot float rod . I built it last November and I like it fine. I extended the butt section to make it 13′ 8" when I fitted the handle. From the articles posted on other fishing newsgroups in the past, the comments re St. Croix  seem quite positive.  St. Croix may not be as expensive as many but they seem to be good quality blanks and from what I hear they honour their warrantee. Grant

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I also own two St. Croix rods, one a 10′ 9/10 wt and the other a 15′ Spey rod. Both are giving me excellent service in both fresh and salt water. Neither is quite as good as the really top end rods, but I suspect I’m not a good enough caster to have it make any difference. ( BTW, the inevitable gear dunking that occurs while surf fishing in salt doesn’t concern me as much with a more reasonably priced rod.)

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: Hope some people can help me out with some feedback. I have heard some : good, some bad news about St.Croix rods. I personally own a 13′ float : rod from St.Croix and enjoy using it quite alot. : However, I am interested in purchasing 1 or 2 flyrods, (one for : steelhead, and another for some 4/5 weight summer dry flyfishing). : Before I plunk my cash down for a St.Croix, are they any users out there : that would recommend (or not) purchasing a St.Croix? You won’t go wrong with a St. Croix rod. We have sold a lot of them at the shop, and the customers are alwats satisfied with them. Some like them better than the high end rods out there. We have had St. Croix rods come in to sent back for repair. Usually, it was the customers falt for the problem. There have been many times that the work was done for free – especially if the rod was new. They may not do this for you, but lets hope you never need it!

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Question:

Planning trip to Clark’s Fork of the Yellowstone this summer and would like to read some about the area before the trip.  Could anyone suggest some good reading material on the subject?  I’ve heard of a book called "The Most Complete Guide to Wyoming Fisheries"  has anyone read this book?  Is it good?  Where can I get a copy?

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Planning trip to Clark’s Fork of the Yellowstone this summer and would like to read some about the area before the trip.  

I’ve seen quite a flurry of posts regarding the Clark’s Fork of the Yellowstone recently. I’m surprised. The Clark’s Fork is an incredibly beautifull valley, and the elk hunting there is as good as it gets. The fishing is good too, for large numbers of small trout. The growing season is too short, the water too fast and too cold to support any big ones.    The lower end of the river runs thru is an impenetrable canyon, with 1000′ verticle rock walls, accessible only to the most lunatic kayakers who literally use petons and caribeeners to portage several impossible falls. There are some good Rainbows in several canyon pools. The problem is getting there. Higher up, from Crandal creek upstream to Cooke City, there are few fish over 12" long…although lots of them that small and smaller. —

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Question:

Kirby, Grab your 4-5wt rod and head an hour south of SLC to Provo. Go up Provo Canyon and Fish anywhere between the city and Deer Creek Reservoir. You won’t be alone as this river is fished pretty heavily. But, "Love em and Leave em" is as highly regarded as the dominant religion is in Utah. The last two trips up the canyon have paid off for me. I have been using simple wooly boogers and other balack or brown nymph patterns. Pheasant tails have been particularly good to me. Use very light leaders as these fish all have PHD’s in entemology. You have to be stealthier than normal on this river but the fishing is great. 3-4 pound brown’s are not uncommon on this river. Good fishing, if you have any more questions drop me a line. RL

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My wife is working in Salt Lake City Utah for the next month.  I plan to visit her on the weekends and being from Austin Texas we see an opportunity to get in some fall fly fishing.  I would like tips on streams, access points, and fly patterns to generate a memorable fall fishing adventure near the great salt lakes.  

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