Question:

<SNIP Errr . . .  this is why I posed it as a question, not a statement. Someone once said, I believe on this newsgroup, that punctuation was something to which particular attention should be paid. Therefore, by using a question mark, I was not giving a glimpse into the future, but was asking for one. Tim It’s STILL just a NG – sheeeesh PS: You can call me Tim.

Yes, well Tim, an excellent point, in retrospect. Although you intimated that you detected something. I do wish you would make up your mind, are you a detective? A detector? a fortune teller? or maybe even a cape seller?   I would like "Horn", if its still available, although perhaps "of Good Hope" might be more appropriate. If I could give glimpses into the future, I would know the names of the horses already, and this whole conversation would be as superfluous as a cape. The importance or otherwise of any particular thing, is in the eye of the beholder.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <SNIP Errr . . .  this is why I posed it as a question, not a statement. Someone once said, I believe on this newsgroup, that punctuation was something to which particular attention should be paid. Therefore, by using a question mark, I was not giving a glimpse into the future, but was asking for one. Tim It’s STILL just a NG – sheeeesh PS: You can call me Tim. Yes, well Tim, an excellent point, in retrospect. Although you intimated that you detected something.

I also remember someone, I believe on this NG, saying that people shouldn’t infer intent. I do wish you would make up your mind, are you a detective? A detector? a fortune teller? or maybe even a cape seller? I would like "Horn", if its still available, although perhaps "of Good Hope" might be more appropriate.

Since this is a fishing NG, "Cod" is the going commodity. C’mon, MC, stay on topic.  ;-) Tim

Response:

<SNIP Since this is a fishing NG, "Cod" is the going commodity. C’mon, MC, stay on topic.  ;-) Tim

Just be grateful I don

Question:

Yeah, count me in you shadster! Opie needs all the hats he can get, Chris, because he doesn’t have any hair. Sign him up for a half dozen. If you’re doing t-shirts sign him up for another half dozen XXL to cover his gut.

Damn, that hurt to the scalp.  Can’t get to the bone through all these layers o’ fat! Opie  –Planning for the Past–

Response:

Hi All, Maybe some would want a hat even if they can’t make it? — Bill Kiene

Ain’t that what this is all about?  I hope I’m not expected to show-up to receive my hat.  Hat just don’t seem worth the price of air-fare. Opie  –Planning for the Past–

Response:

I am doing some preliminary investigation into embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.  So far it looks like we have about 10 – 12? Roffians signed up, but I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so).

PC, I’ll need three. Danl Still can’t believe I’m contemplating flying somewhere for the express purpose of shadding!!!! AAAAArrrrrrrggghhhh…..

Response:

Still can’t believe I’m contemplating flying somewhere for the express purpose of shadding!!!! AAAAArrrrrrrggghhhh…..

So you’re actually contemplating coming to the shad fishout, Dan’l? Cool! BTW, these are American Shad, not the puny, slimey Hickory Shad you remember from your misspent youth. There are also striped bass in the American River. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Yeah, count me in you shadster!

Opie needs all the hats he can get, Chris, because he doesn’t have any hair. Sign him up for a half dozen. If you’re doing t-shirts sign him up for another half dozen XXL to cover his gut. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I am doing some preliminary investigation into embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.  So far it looks like we have about 10 – 12? Roffians signed up, but I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so).

Yo! Sign me up for a hat, please. /daytripper

Response:

embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.

Count me in for one of the caps. Big Dale

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am doing some preliminary investigation into embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.  So far it looks like we have about 10 – 12? Roffians signed up, but I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so). The more I get done, the cheaper each one becomes.  Let me know if you will want one and I will run a total here at my homestead.  Legal Disclaimer — remember this is for an estimate you will not be contractually held to receiving an Official Clave Fishing Hat if you ask for one at this point.  I just need rough numbers. —- Padishar Creel "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft…and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." –  Wernher von Braun

As requested earlier, I’d like one! –Walt

Response:

I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so).

Yeah, I need another fishing hat like Custer needed another Indian (oops, Native American).   But sure, put me down for one. Joe F.

Response:

As requested earlier, I’d like one!

Me too. — Charlie…

Response:

Hi All, Maybe some would want a hat even if they can’t make it? — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am doing some preliminary investigation into embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.  So far it looks like we have about 10 – 12? Roffians signed up, but I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so). The more I get done, the cheaper each one becomes.  Let me know if you will want one and I will run a total here at my homestead.  Legal Disclaimer — remember this is for an estimate you will not be contractually held to receiving an Official Clave Fishing Hat if you ask for one at this point. I just need rough numbers. —- Padishar Creel "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft…and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." –  Wernher von Braun

Response:

As requested earlier, I’d like one! Me too.

Ditto. Wolfgang

Response:

Me too… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Maybe some would want a hat even if they can’t make it? — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com I am doing some preliminary investigation into embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.  So far it looks like we have about 10 – 12? Roffians signed up, but I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so). The more I get done, the cheaper each one becomes.  Let me know if you will want one and I will run a total here at my homestead.  Legal Disclaimer — remember this is for an estimate you will not be contractually held to receiving an Official Clave Fishing Hat if you ask for one at this point. I just need rough numbers. —- Padishar Creel "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft…and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." –  Wernher von Braun

Response:

I am doing some preliminary investigation into embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.  So far it looks like we have about 10 – 12? Roffians signed up, but I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so). The more I get done, the cheaper each one becomes.  Let me know if you will want one and I will run a total here at my homestead.  Legal Disclaimer — remember this is for an estimate you will not be contractually held to receiving an Official Clave Fishing Hat if you ask for one at this point.  I just need rough numbers. —- Padishar Creel "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft…and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." –  Wernher von Braun

Response:

Yeah, count me in you shadster! Opie  –Planning for the Past–

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am doing some preliminary investigation into embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.  So far it looks like we have about 10 – 12? Roffians signed up, but I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so). The more I get done, the cheaper each one becomes.  Let me know if you will want one and I will run a total here at my homestead.  Legal Disclaimer — remember this is for an estimate you will not be contractually held to receiving an Official Clave Fishing Hat if you ask for one at this point. I just need rough numbers. —- Padishar Creel "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft…and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." –  Wernher von Braun

Response:

Question:

Freezing cold and heavy snowfall. My feet were slowly going numb, and my fingers had long since turned blue with the cold. The old trick of plunging them into the freezing water to increase the circulation, and thus warm them up, had worked as usual, but the effects had long since worn off and I was really cold now. Neoprene gloves with fold back finger and thumb were little use, and so I removed them.Visibility was low because of the fairly dense snowfall, and the footing was treacherous over the rocks. Memories of my last fall in this spot on a day trip the previous  year, when I crashed heavily onto a rock with my right knee, and had to more or less crawl to the car being unable to walk, came to mind, and made me even more careful than usual.  Without the cushioning of the 5mm neoprene my kneecap would surely have been badly damaged, as it was it brought tears to my eyes, and my knee was swollen and all the colours of the rainbow for weeks. Digging my ski pole in carefully at every step I kept moving, staying at the waters edge, and only wading when absolutely necessary, to negotiate large boulders and the like. falling into this water would likely prove fatal very quickly, should I be stupid or careless enough to do so. The wind had dropped somewhat, to about a howling gale, and the rapidly swirling snow flakes stuck to my clothing and covered my head and shoulders, freezing to my spectacles and forcing me to shake my head occasionally to stop too large a build-up. Clammy cold damp reached through my neoprenes and made me shiver occasionally.  Very heavy overcast coupled with the snowstorm had turned the day very dark. I had started to fish just before  dawn, and had made my way slowly along three miles or so of the rocky coastline stopping to cast every ten feet or so, using main force to try and reach out as far as possible into the murk, lingering a little longer at some places which had proved successful in the past. Result ? nothing. Checking the watch on the lanyard in my top pocket, told me it was eleven thirty, and I had told my wife I would probably be back to the chalet for lunch, she had declined to accompany me, and decided to stay in the chalet with a good book instead.  Sensible person my wife. Just another hundred meters or so I thought, and then I will turn for home,  the group of large rocks at the headland is usually the best place anyway, as the sea-bed dips away into a deep channel quite close to shore. Takes come as the fly comes up over the lip of the channel where a large band of weed lines the shore, mostly cod, but occasionally a good seatrout, the lip of the channel is only about sixty feet from shore, and a good flat powerful cast should reach it, even in this wind.  Overwintering seatrout are often large, in excellent condition, and sometimes fight like fury, many maintain they taste better than any other fish bar none. Largish cod are not to be sniffed at either though, they fight much more doggedly than a seatrout, but are still exciting, and a five or even ten pounder on light gear is an experience not soon forgotten. Several such fish had fallen to my rod at this spot the previous year under similar conditions. Conventional gear was useless, and I had long since taken the fly reel and line off the rod, in fact within the first twenty minutes, and was using a casting float and fixed spool reel. Even with this rig it was hardly possible to cast more than fifty feet or so into the teeth of the wind. A slow sinking sliding float of thirty grams, a nine foot leader, and a shrimp fly had brought nothing as yet, not as much as a nibble.  I decided to change flies, and put on a much darker version of the shrimp fly, with a touch of red in the tail. The normally peaceful Baltic was crashing into the shore with unusual force, white horses whirling and dancing on the wave tops as far as it was possible to see, and although the water cleared quickly after every breaker, allowing one to see the bottom fairly well close in, I fancied something with a darker silhouette might do the trick, although my hopes of catching anything at all had diminished considerably. As usual I dangled the fly in the water in front of me, waiting for a break in the surf, allowing the float to settle slowly and then moving it to check the action of the fly more or less at my feet.  A small crab appeared as if from nowhere on the blank patch of sand,and seemed to want to grab the fly, scuttling after it and attempting to settle on it, and fascinated by this, I pulled the fly along slowly, just to see if the crab would be able to grab it.  Intent on this, I failed to notice the next breaker coming in and temporarily lost sight of the crab and fly, as the breaker stirred up sand colouring the water. A sudden jerk and my float shooting away along the shore at a rate of knots very nearly frightened me to death, the rod was almost jerked from my hand, and the drag on my reel started to whine unpleasantly, and I was absolutely flabbergasted. I did not strike or anything at all, in fact for quite a while I just stood there with the rod pointing straight along the shore, while the line cut into my index finger almost to the bone and the drag continued to whine. After what seemed like an age I finally had enough presence of mind to take my finger away from the line, and hit the fighting drag lever on the reel, the drag which was giving off what I hoped was just steam, slowed to a rather more leisurely rate, and eventually stopped. Everything went slack, and rather annoyed with myself. but still more surprised than anything else, I started to reel in.  Must have been one hell of a fish that, I thought, reeling in at moderate speed, you bloody idiot, fancy losing a fish like that, I cursed myself, and then everything went tight again ! Bloody hell, hung up as well !   Then the "snag" started moving again. After about ten minutes of pumping, a few peculiarly powerful long, and some short dogged runs, which were most unlike any fight I had experienced before, and during which all sorts of ideas of monster seatrout and salmon went through my mind, and more pumping, I finally saw the fish, a large cod foul hooked in the dorsal fin !  Too large to risk beaching it, I unslung my net and landed it knee deep in the surf, in considerable danger of being swept off my feet by the breakers. I despatched the fish, which coughed up a fair number of small crabs, and after weighing it laid it on a large rock behind me. Just over eleven pounds showed on my scale which is fairly accurate.  Oh well, I thought, not exactly the fine English art of fly angling, but a nice fish anyway, and inspected my leader and fly for signs of chafing or other damage.  Getting ready for another Herculean cast into the teeth of the wind, I suddenly thought better of it, and just swung the float and fly about ten feet from shore, letting the fly be pulled along by the float and tumbling in the surf.  Bang !  it had not gone three yards when the float shot away again, and after a much shorter battle a nice plump six pound cod  joined its mate on the rock behind me.  Six casts and six fish followed in fairly quick succession. Sweating now, all thoughts of cold forgotten, I decided on "just one more cast" before packing up.  I had over forty pounds of fish to clean and pack back to the chalet, and that was more than enough for our freezer requirements for this year. The sky had lightened up somewhat, and the snow had stopped falling, visibility was steadily increasing, and although the wind had dropped somewhat the spray was still lashing in with force, occasionally giving me a good soaking, my face was numb, and all attempts to dry my hands on the towel from my bag failed miserably as it was already soaking wet.  Plunging my hands into the icy water one more time, and hoping for the best, I changed my chafed leader with no little difficulty, tied on a new fly of the same type and size, a rather brown "Baltic woolly", with a touch of red in the tail, a type of woolly bugger which is a very good shrimp imitation, and might just conceivably be mistaken for a crab, and decided to try reaching the lip of the channel. A forceful whirling side cast using all the power of the thirteen foot one and a half pound test carp rod, keeping the trajectory as flat as possible, ended abruptly, as the float struck the water about thirty feet out, my numb fingers had caused me to mistimed the release.  Relatively slight tangles formed as the wind caught the line and blew it off the reel spool.  This was soon sorted and I took up tension on the line prior to retrieving fairly fast for another try.  Wham !  an almighty jerk on the end of the line bent the rod well over, and the drag started whining immediately as the fish headed straight for the deep water channel.  Just as well, if it dived for the weeds  it would be gone.  This was no foul hooked cod, but obviously a decent seatrout, and as if to confirm my observations it leapt from the water about a hundred  feet away, coming down with a large splash which could be heard even over the sound of wind and waves.  A very nice fish indeed, which must be kept out of the weeds at all costs. I loosened the drag lever somewhat, seatrout often come off if forced too hard, and  settled down to the fight. Several long screaming runs followed by spectacular leaps followed, with the fish coming ever closer to the weed bank lining the shore. The trick at this location is to tire the fish out as much as possible in the clear water beyond the weed banks, before bringing it in. This is however often much easier said than done. This was a very powerful fish, and was still showing little sign of tiring, I loosened the drag a little more, hoping that the hookhold would not fail due to the prolonged fight, and awaited developments. Several more runs and leaps followed.and then head shaking and short deep bursts of speed toward the bottom … read more »

Response:

Mike, you are clearly an ignoramus when it comes to cod. Cod fillet (those gorgeous, toothsome white flakes) battered and deep fried in beef dripping, with chips, is one of the great Epicurean experiences of the world. It is a meal redolent of the the cool open air after the cinema or pub. It evokes memories of young love; of soft-sweatered pulchritude and youthful vigour. Ah, the smell of it; the tang of malt vinegar and coarse salt…

Stop it, you’re making me hungry! I knew that cod tasted good. I knew that the flesh was white and flaky. I just thought that they were a little ugly and lived in deep and really cold water. (I mean, you have to admit that they don’t have the sleek predatory good looks of a spotted bass, or the colors of a spawning rainbow, and I didn’t think fish were supposed to have beards…) Besides, the inland US doesn’t have much cod, but have you ever hooked into a bigmouth bass? That’s a ride you won’t soon forget. "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

Response:

Stop it Tony, you unleash guttural powers you don’t want to know about. Is it hereby concluded that you’ll take care of lunch at the Flyfair? Drooling on my keyboard, Herman Mike, you are clearly an ignoramus when it comes to cod. Cod fillet (those gorgeous, toothsome white flakes) battered and deep fried in beef dripping, with chips, is one of the great Epicurean experiences of the world. It is a meal redolent of the the cool open air after the cinema or pub. It evokes memories of young love; of soft-sweatered pulchritude and youthful vigour. Ah, the smell of it; the tang of malt vinegar and coarse salt… Suggest you read: ‘Cod – The Biography of the Fish that Changed the World’, by Mark Kurlansky and published (1997) in the US by Walker Publishing Co. Inc. ISBN 0-224-05104-0. It’s a very interesting book, though perhaps a rather surprising ‘best seller’. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Stop it Tony, you unleash guttural powers you don’t want to know about. Is it hereby concluded that you’ll take care of lunch at the Flyfair? Drooling on my keyboard, Herman

I’ll stand you and Mike Connor a lunch Herman, but sadly I don’t think it will be cod. My car is only a little one and I fear my other passengers might object if I came over loaded up with cod, potatoes and deep fryer, etc.! By a strange coincidence, they were talking about cod on BBC Radio 4 today. The price has rocketed as stocks have declined. There was even an interview with Mark Kurlansky (who wrote the book) over in New York. We are very lucky as we have an excellent fish n’ chip shop in Tunbridge Wells, our nearest big town. It regularly wins the prize for the best in the south east of England. My wife just e-mailed to ask: ‘What’s for dinner tonight?’ Problem solved! I’m looking forward to Fly Fair. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Herman’s post on Cod is a new one for me. How about in the US, on the Pacific Coast, are folks fishing the shallows at nite for young Cod? Id like to try that. Anyone know more per the PNW coast? Dave

There’s a fish they catch here in Northern California (not on the fly) called a "ling cod". It’s about the scariest looking thing I’ve ever seen. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

There’s a fish they catch here in Northern California (not on the fly) called a "ling cod". It’s about the scariest looking thing I’ve ever seen.

It’s related to the scorpionfishes and rock cod.  Like the rock cod, the ling is not a cod. If I remember correctly it doesn’t suffer from decompression as you haul it up from the depths of the ocean.  It fights you all the way.  Cab grow to 5 feet. http://www.psmfc.org/habitat/edu_lingcod_fact.html Mu

Response:

By "Cod," do you mean _Gadus morhua_? Big ugly thing with pasty white flesh and three dorsal fins? I always thought that they were a fish for deep and frigid water, but it wouldn’t be the first time today that I was wrong about something.

Mike, you are clearly an ignoramus when it comes to cod. Cod fillet (those gorgeous, toothsome white flakes) battered and deep fried in beef dripping, with chips, is one of the great Epicurean experiences of the world. It is a meal redolent of the the cool open air after the cinema or pub. It evokes memories of young love; of soft-sweatered pulchritude and youthful vigour. Ah, the smell of it; the tang of malt vinegar and coarse salt… Suggest you read: ‘Cod – The Biography of the Fish that Changed the World’, by Mark Kurlansky and published (1997) in the US by Walker Publishing Co. Inc. ISBN 0-224-05104-0. It’s a very interesting book, though perhaps a rather surprising ‘best seller’. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

[snipped excellent report] … Brrrr … Thanks, Steve — "Experience must be the teacher in this game – not only your own  but the other man’s" – Dick Wigram http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/SIEACCIDENTALLYSPLATTEREDBACKONEDAY

Response:

Mike, I’ll call/mail you as soon as I can arrange some days off! And, judging from your post, I’ll pack my old carp rod as well.. Cheers, Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I go fairly regularly Herman, any time you fancy a trip ( couple of days if you like ), just drop me a mail and we can arrange it.  I can be at a number of good places on the Danish coast within three hours from where I live, so can also do day-trips etc without any problem.  At this time of year, and earlier, a good seatrout is not a common occurrence, but it does happen. Cod are mostly caught, depending on weather etc, some big ones.  The herring will be in soon, and both cod and seatrout hunt these shoals, and you can have excellent sport then. You can catch plenty of herring on the fly as well if you are so inclined.  The trip report is perfectly true by the way, but I must admit that it was my best trip this year. I caught quite a lot less on other trips, in fact actually blanking once, and though this is rare, it does happen.  I know a few people who have fished for two years or more without catching one single seatrout. I must be lucky, I have caught quite a few, some large ones as well. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de An even bigger wonder is that one doesn’t even care any more. True or

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Cod are mostly caught, depending on weather etc, some big ones.

By "Cod," do you mean _Gadus morhua_? Big ugly thing with pasty white flesh and three dorsal fins? I always thought that they were a fish for deep and frigid water, but it wouldn’t be the first time today that I was wrong about something. "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

Response:

Not sure about the latin, but big, ugly and, don’t forget, _tasty_ sort of describes it. The big boys and girls are normally caught in deep water, but the kids play and hunt in the shallows, especially at night. Feeding on shrimps, crabs and other edible critters, they can turn an otherwise fishless seatrout fishing night into a ball. Those kids are already big strong fish, by the way.. and did I mention _very_ good to eat yet? <g Herman By "Cod," do you mean _Gadus morhua_? Big ugly thing with pasty white flesh and three dorsal fins? I always thought that they were a fish for deep and frigid water, but it wouldn’t be the first time today that I was wrong about something. "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Herman’s post on Cod is a new one for me. How about in the US, on the Pacific Coast, are folks fishing the shallows at nite for young Cod? Id like to try that. Anyone know more per the PNW coast? Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not sure about the latin, but big, ugly and, don’t forget, _tasty_ sort of describes it. The big boys and girls are normally caught in deep water, but the kids play and hunt in the shallows, especially at night. Feeding on shrimps, crabs and other edible critters, they can turn an otherwise fishless seatrout fishing night into a ball. Those kids are already big strong fish, by the way.. and did I mention _very_ good to eat yet? <g Herman By "Cod," do you mean _Gadus morhua_? Big ugly thing with pasty white flesh and three dorsal fins? I always thought that they were a fish for deep and frigid water, but it wouldn’t be the first time today that I was wrong about something. "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos — Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Correct.  In the Baltic and some other places ( English North sea and similar), these fish come in close to forage, especially on crustaceans and herring. Fairly large fish may be caught in relatively shallow water. They will even "rise" to flies fished on the surface,especially at twilight, at night , or on heavily overcast days.  My best fish to date from the shore was thirty one pounds, but I got that one on a pirk, not on a fly. My best fly caught fish was about twenty pounds, but I don’t know exactly as it was not weighed.  These fish are game fighters, excellent to eat, (especially smoked with my secret recipe ! ), and although completely unlike trout can be very attractive indeed. Their markings and behaviour depend to a considerable extent on the areas they frequent. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Looking forward to hearing from you Herman. You can stay at my place no problem.  Definitely bring the carp rod. I have enough other gear for you to use if you need anything else. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Not sure about the latin, but big, ugly and, don’t forget, _tasty_ sort of describes it.

Flaky white flesh, pretty durned good smoked? That’s the very one. Cod are definitely yummy. If only there were enough that they weren’t a special order here. The closest that we have in the inland US are Burbot, and they’re just not the same. Of course, we do have the various black basses, so we’re all happy "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

Response:

Freezing cold and heavy snowfall. My feet were slowly going numb, and my fingers had long since turned blue with the cold. The old trick of plunging them into the freezing water to increase the circulation, and thus warm them up, had worked as usual, but the effects had long since worn off and I was really cold now. Neoprene gloves with fold back finger and thumb were little use, and so I removed them.Visibility was low because of the fairly dense snowfall, and the footing was treacherous over the rocks.

(great report snipped)         the wonder of very well written prose is that one has substantial difficulty in separating truth from fiction.  well done, pommy. wayno

Response:

An even bigger wonder is that one doesn’t even care any more. True or not (possibly true, the weather description was familiar!), thanks Mike! I’m quite sure the temperature dropped five degress while I was reading this report. Next time when you go, could you make some room for a Dutchman? I can take my own rum.. Cheers, Herman (great report snipped, indeed!)         the wonder of very well written prose is that one has substantial difficulty in separating truth from fiction.  well done, pommy. wayno

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

I go fairly regularly Herman, any time you fancy a trip ( couple of days if you like ), just drop me a mail and we can arrange it.  I can be at a number of good places on the Danish coast within three hours from where I live, so can also do day-trips etc without any problem.  At this time of year, and earlier, a good seatrout is not a common occurrence, but it does happen. Cod are mostly caught, depending on weather etc, some big ones.  The herring will be in soon, and both cod and seatrout hunt these shoals, and you can have excellent sport then. You can catch plenty of herring on the fly as well if you are so inclined.  The trip report is perfectly true by the way, but I must admit that it was my best trip this year. I caught quite a lot less on other trips, in fact actually blanking once, and though this is rare, it does happen.  I know a few people who have fished for two years or more without catching one single seatrout. I must be lucky, I have caught quite a few, some large ones as well. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An even bigger wonder is that one doesn’t even care any more. True or

Response:

Question:

Float tube – suggestions?? Vest – days are usually very warm so I don’t really want to add another layer. Are there any mesh knit vests? thanks, Don

Don, there are mesh vests, and I wouldn’t be without one. Almost any FF’ing dealer will have them, and, of course, most all the large mail order catalogs, take your pick. They can run from 30 bucks on up to near a C note. If you’re approaching oldfartism, like me, then you might want to consider a V tube or U tube for ease of getting in and out of. Doughnuts are fine, but can be a hassle getting into them. There are plenty to pick from, again, check out the mail order catalogs. Frank Church Elkhart, IN

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(snip) then you might want to consider a V tube or U tube for ease of getting in and out of. Doughnuts are fine, but can be a hassle getting into them. There are plenty to pick from, again, check out the mail order catalogs. Frank Church Elkhart, IN

True, there are many tubes to choose from…but, 90% of them, in my opinion, don’t cut the mustard….built cheap, sewn cheap, cheap material, and cheap bladders.  Now if your serious about tubing, check out the V-tube ‘Whisper’ from Leigh Outdoors in Utah.  Modified 10×22" truck tube (not a bladder), comfortable adjustable hard seat…about $200.00  Mike’s got them at Mikes Fly Desk in Bountiful, Utah.  And no, I’m not a relative or employee of Mike’s….I just know a damn good tube when I see one.  Call him at 801/292-4736 or FAX 801/298-9442 for his catalog…you won’t be sorry. Greg Hardig

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If you’re going to carry the float tube any distance, get the lightest that will uspport you.  This generally means a donut with a bladder.  Only question is what diameter you need for yor weight.  I carry a Caddis 20" that only wieghs 3 lbs.  Uboats run 7 to 12 pounds.  Inner tubes are very heavy compared to bladders.  Breaathables are light but very cold for float tubing in high mountain lakes.  Often the weight you save is used up in carrying long underwear. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to fly fishing and just getting my gear.  One of my favorite hiking areas is the east side of the Sierra and I’ve got a few gear questions for use in this environment – spring – fall. Waders – something light for packing, comfortable to use all day (breathable?), also use in float tube. Float tube – suggestions?? Vest – days are usually very warm so I don’t really want to add another layer. Are there any mesh knit vests? thanks, Don

Response:

I’m new to fly fishing and just getting my gear.  One of my favorite hiking areas is the east side of the Sierra and I’ve got a few gear questions for use in this environment – spring – fall. Waders – something light for packing, comfortable to use all day (breathable?), also use in float tube.   Float tube – suggestions?? Vest – days are usually very warm so I don’t really want to add another layer. Are there any mesh knit vests? thanks, Don

Response:

Question:

Here in Colorado, the fish are skitish enough, without a 110 pound dog swimming overhead.  Over the past weekend, I brought him fishing again.  However, this time I fastened his leash to my waders.  This wasn’t a problem because the water is very low.   This method seemed to work really well.  Any training insight, comments, or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

I would think catching him on a bad backcast would be risky.   As to suggestions, my own german shepherd has gotten a bit old.  I find that  after a good hour or so of splashing and playing she settles down and prefers  to watch me from the bank.  So I spend an hour playing with the dog and hiking  upstream before I start fishing.

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I have two dogs who love to swim after me on a quiet lake if I let them.   When the fishing is bad and can’t get any worse, sometimes I call them out and let them troll beside my canoe.  However, I don’t encourage this if there are other fisherman in the lake.  When I fish on a river, I just leave them in my van.  They are quite happy hanging out for a couple of hours at a time.  Less stress worring about pissing off other guys.   Besides nothing spooks fish more than a couple of splashing muts swiming around, or having them get caught in the current. C. Carefoot – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to start bringing my black labrador fly fishing.  I was curious if anyone has any training suggestions, which may help.  Over the summer, I attempted to bring him fishing.  Being a water dog, I couldn’t keep him out of the deepest holes.  Here in Colorado, the fish are skitish enough, without a 110 pound dog swimming overhead.  Over the past weekend,I brought him fishing again.  However, this time I fastened his leash to my waders.  This wasn’t a problem because the water is very low.   This method seemed to work really well.  Any training insight, comments, or suggestions are greatly appreciated. -Josh josh ( a t ) bankersfyi ( d o t ) com

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Me thinks too many folks are buying into this dog/flyfishing c**p you see on the cover of catalogs, books, calendars, etc..  I like the one photo on my TU calendar where this gorgeous lady flyfisher, all decked in Orvis gear, in her twenties, shows a 26" trout to her black lab.  It’s titled "introducing one love to another". Now here’s reality: if there is a woman, she looks like a Jenny-Craig dropout.  The trout she holds is a SNIT (stocked nine-inch trout).  She wears an "Uncle Buck’s Salmon Eggs" t-shirt covered with fish slime, probably from the stringer of fish wrapped around her neck.  The dog is drowning because he can’t swim, and drooling more water than there is in the stream.  The title would be "Rover finally discovers what fresh fish smells like". Voice of experience – tried training Boomer my black lab to go flyfishing. He ran everybody off the stream.  I had to leave before the sheriff arrived. Fishing is for my enjoyment, not Boomer’s.  Let him get his own rod & Jeep.

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This is gonna be another Swayback Story. One of the members of that fine club has a Newfoundland Duck Tolling Retriever bitch.  Nice dog.  Takes her fishing with him often.   Well, one Saturday evening this guy is fishing the water by my house with the Noof.  He get’s into a fish – maybe 17-18".  He gets the fish into netting range, and damned if the dog doesn’t pounce on the poor thing, grab it in it’s mouth, and take it to shore.  Then the noof sets the fish on the gravel and sits there proud as punch.  Believe it or not, the fish was released, relatively unharmed. As I understand these dogs they’re used as duck dogs in Canada.  They have very strong retrieval instincts it would appear.  But I never thought they were that strong. Personally, I find fishing with a dog, especially a water dog to be very annoying. They can go all over the place, and mess up everything.  Maybe Josh’s dog is a better dog than that – I sure hope so anyway. I would like to start bringing my black labrador fly fishing.  I was curious if anyone has any training suggestions, which may help.  Over the summer, I attempted to bring him fishing.  Being a water dog, I couldn’t keep him out of the deepest holes.  Here in Colorado, the fish are skitish enough, without a 110 pound dog swimming overhead.  Over the past weekend, I brought him fishing again.  However, this time I fastened his leash to my waders.  This wasn’t a problem because the water is very low.   This method seemed to work really well.  Any training insight, comments, or suggestions are greatly appreciated. -Josh josh ( a t ) bankersfyi ( d o t ) com

– </chaz Chaz Clover The Paved Earth Society http://www.rmi.net/~clover/pave_the_earth   "Why Not Just Get On With It?"

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Fishing is for my enjoyment, not Boomer’s.  Let him get his own rod & Jeep.

Sorry, but an enjoyable day on the river *always* includes the dog ! My mutt patiently sits on the bank until a trout is hooked, and then dives in to attempt a retrieve. Lots of excitement – and all he asks for is one quick lick of the fish. So what if he ruins that pool, there’s plenty more within a short walk, and more trout than I could catch in a lifetime. It’s seldom I see another fisherman on my stretch of river, and my buddies get a bigger kick out of watching the dog than playing the numbers game in fish caught in a day. Hunting season’s too short, and time too precious to spend outdoors without my pooch! Andrew Banff Alberta

Response:

I would like to start bringing my black labrador fly fishing.  I was curious if anyone has any training suggestions, which may help.  Over the summer, I attempted to bring him fishing.  Being a water dog, I couldn’t keep him out of the deepest holes.  Here in Colorado, the fish are skitish enough, without a 110 pound dog swimming overhead.  Over the past weekend, I brought him fishing again.  However, this time I fastened his leash to my waders.  This wasn’t a problem because the water is very low.   This method seemed to work really well.  Any training insight, comments, or suggestions are greatly appreciated. -Josh josh ( a t ) bankersfyi ( d o t ) com

Response:

I would like to start bringing my black labrador fly fishing.  I was curious if anyone has any training suggestions, which may help.  Over the summer, I attempted to bring him fishing.  Being a water dog, I couldn’t keep him out of the deepest holes.  Here in Colorado, the fish are skitish enough, without a 110 pound dog swimming overhead.  Over the past weekend, I brought him fishing again.  However, this time I fastened his leash to my waders.  This wasn’t a problem because the water is very low.   This method seemed to work really well.  Any training insight, comments, or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

My yellow lab started obedience training at 16 weeks and was fish_able when she turned 5. She knew all the commands and would obey 99% of the time, but you know labs & water :- At 5 I began taking her to the beach fishing on off tides so she wouldn’t bother anyone (she’s very friendly), or when I’d fish more isolated spots in the marshes and rocks. She did fine, I let her roam within reason, she seems to know her limits and is pretty unobtrusive. At 6 I began taking her to a local river that ran behind a barrier beach. I met a friend there and we decided to wade out to a nice looking flat. Gave Cass the ‘Stay’ command and she sat in a spot in the marsh for the next hour, watching us, not moving until I released her, then she went and chased seagulls for a while, but never came near the water we were fishing. My friend, who used to have a yellow lab too, was amazed. I can let her roam like this because she’s very good with hand signals. After I finish fishing I always do the tennis ball thing with her, so she knows that her patience will be rewarded, that seems to help a lot. So now I have a great fishing buddy, but it did take a lot of time and training to get her there. The point where she really started obeying was when I released a striper into a very strong rip and she dove in to retrieve it, she got one hell of a ride out to sea until she got loose. She never did that again, though I don’t necessarily recommend doing this on purpose :-

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to start bringing my black labrador fly fishing.  I was curious if anyone has any training suggestions, which may help.  Over the summer, I attempted to bring him fishing.  Being a water dog, I couldn’t keep him out of the deepest holes.  Here in Colorado, the fish are skitish enough, without a 110 pound dog swimming overhead.  Over the past weekend, I brought him fishing again.  However, this time I fastened his leash to my waders.  This wasn’t a problem because the water is very low.   This method seemed to work really well.  Any training insight, comments, or suggestions are greatly appreciated. -Josh josh ( a t ) bankersfyi ( d o t ) com

my dog is a horrible fishing dog, so she spends my fishing time drooling on my couch.  if you really want to fish with your pooch, i would recommend just spending lots of time with it on and near rivers.  go to areas where the fishing is marginal, so you don’t piss other anglers off while training your dog.  practice your casting while working (it might be tough to concentrate on the fish and your dog) on keeping your dog out of the water (if you own a breed that loves the water, it might be tough to keep it out of the water). remember that non-dog owners can be wary of large breed dogs and that a dog along the river isn’t always welcome by other anglers especially if dog owners don’t pick up after their animals.   good luck and good training, chris

Response:

I would like to start bringing my black labrador fly fishing.  I was curious if anyone has any training suggestions, which may help.  Over the summer, I attempted to bring him fishing.  Being a water dog, I couldn’t keep him out of the deepest holes.  Here in Colorado, the fish are skitish enough, without a 110 pound dog swimming overhead.  Over the past weekend, I brought him fishing again.  However, this time I fastened his leash to my waders.  This wasn’t a problem because the water is very low.   This method seemed to work really well.  Any training insight, comments, or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

I don’t have any insight other than once you find out, I’d like to know. I took my lab fishing this past summer and of course every time I casted, he’d jump in after the fly. I tried tying his leash to a willow bush – he bent the willow over so far that he made it into the water again. When I finally got him tied up good, he’d bark every time I casted – not a good thing when you start fishing 5am and there are other people around trying to sleep. Rich

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I’m a dog trainer by profession & there is no easy, magic way to make a "fishing" dog.  An unruly dog has no place on the stream. The first place to start is with basic obedience so the dog learns the commands of heel, sit, down, stay & come as true commands not just requests that the dog follows when it wants to.  This means alot of work at home before ever taking the dog to a stream with you. However, much of it has to do with basic temperament & personality.  I’ve bred, trained, and owned alot of dogs over the years & I’ve only had two that were what I would call true "fishing" dogs.  One was a Golden & the other a Irish Setter.  They would wadeswim at my side while I was fishing or I could put them in a stay on the bank where they would remain no matter what else was going on. The unique characteristic these two had was that they were into fishing. They could stay with me all day without getting distracted the other exciting things that happen such as rabbits, birds, other anglers etc.  They would intensely watch & get very excited when I hooked a fish.  I would land it, show it to them & let them see it swim away. Great companions.  The Irish, though, would get impatient & would bark at me if I hadn’t caught a fish soon enough for her! I don’t take untrained dogs with me fishing. Training has to be done at stream side.  fishing.  This takes time, patience & discipline. It means working with your dog without fishing. Dogs not under strict control should not be off leash and have no business stream side. I don’t have a "fishing" dog, but I do have a young one that shows some real promise. Willi

Response:

Question:

I had my old medalist stolen out of my car after .  Is there anywhere in CT (or in NYC) that sells fly-fishing gear of that sort? thanks, Ben

Response:

I had my old medalist stolen out of my car after .  Is there anywhere in CT (or in NYC) that sells fly-fishing gear of that sort? thanks, Ben

Hi Ben I suggest you contact Hook and Hackle at 800-552-8342. On page 5 of their catalog they list the standard Pflueger and also two rim control models. They are in Plattsburg, NY. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products http://www.btsflyfishing.com Tiemco quality hooks, under $6.00 pkg/50

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Question:

I would like some information on how is the Chum salmon fishing in Hoodsport Washington. Do you have any tips. Is there any worth wile fishing nearby? I will be flyfishing on Oct. 28 & 29 . We may use our float tubes.

Response:

Yes they are running now.  If you do any good please tell.  Friends say green corkies + yarn work on them, and you can use your tube near the hatchery.  Cheers Paul.

Response:

I would like some information on how is the Chum salmon fishing in Hoodsport Washington. Do you have any tips. Is there any worth wile fishing nearby? I will be flyfishing on Oct. 28 & 29 . We may use our float tubes.

 Yes, chartreuse is the way to go.  I usually don’t fish Hoodsport, but I fish the rivers out that way <Satsop, Chehalis, Wynochee, Humptulips, etc. And I’ve been fishing them for last 15 years, and Green has always been the way to go.  Since you’ll be flyfishing, the green corky and chartreuse yarn is outta the question, just use about a long fly hook around size 2 to 4 that is tied with green, with usually a black tail and most use heavier silver bead eyes for attraction and weight.  I tie up some like that, and use the corky/yarn when I’m using my casting rods.  GOOD LUCK and I know the chum are running!

Response:

Question:

This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW

Response:

Quoting "WildernessWerkes!"<wwerkes from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.f    <This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard    <you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for    <a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building    <components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except    <fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional    <casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW I order quite a bit os stuff from Angler’s Workshop.  They have always provided excellant service.           Angler’s Workshop           1350 Atlantic           Woodland, WA. 98674           360-225-9445 Jim Carlisle

Response:

This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW

Just starting to make rods myself. I recently purchased "Crafting a Graphite Fly Rod" by Al Garcia of Frank Amato publications. Al has a section on sources for equipment and materials. B.

Response:

I can reccommend Custom Tackle in Shelbyville, Tenn. Bob McKamey is the owner. Telephone 615-684-6164. I have dealt with this Co. for years. Good luck. Jack

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW Just starting to make rods myself. I recently purchased "Crafting a Graphite Fly Rod" by Al Garcia of Frank Amato publications. Al has a section on sources for equipment and materials. B.

I don’t think he’d buy a book on fly fishing gear when he said he wasn’t interested. Angler’s Workshop and Dale Clemems are two great rod building supply companies. Angler’s – (360) 225-9445 Clemens – (610) 395-5119 Don B.

Response:

This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW

Call these: Dale Clemmens Custom Tackle (615)395-5119 Custom Tackle Supply (615)684-6164 Anglers Workshop (360)225-9445

Response:

This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW Just starting to make rods myself. I recently purchased "Crafting a Graphite Fly Rod" by Al Garcia of Frank Amato publications. Al has a section on sources for equipment and materials. B.

There are tons of suppliers, Cabella’s has a good catalogue for tackle craft. Thomas

Response:

One of the most complete mail order rod component catologs that I have seen is put out by Cabela’s.  They put out a series of specialty catalogs.  The one that you need is called "Tackle Craft".  It has a complete spectrum of rod building supplies.  Call 800-237-4444. Mark

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Question:

Hi Dan – Glad to se you are on-line again. Missed you while you were out – but I went to ASU ! bob

Hey Bob, Sorry, didn’t mean it as a slam against ASU.  I was making fun of his "gotta get some weapons" post to the fly fishing newsgroup.  I just happened to know that Arizona State is in that area because my daughter lived in Mesa for a while.  I figured this guy was a student there and wondered if his parents knew what he was doing – possibly with the school money.  Didn’t mean anything by it  8^                                                Oops!                                                   Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

Hi Dan – Glad to se you are on-line again. Missed you while you were out – but I went to ASU ! bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Allan Gay) writes:     I live in Arizona and I am looking into purchasing a crossbow just to shoot for fun and possibly at pigs during the handgun season.  If you have a used crossbow that you want to sell respond to me personally with a description of what crossbow you have and how much you are willing to sell it for.  I live in mesa, I am ready to buy right now, don’t waste time e-mailing me, I want to start shooting as soon as possible,  I pay in cash. with a description and whatever price you want for it.   I will get back to all of you.  I am serious, I am ready to pay cash right now for a recurve or crossbow or if you have both.  E-mail me right now for jims, any other cool toys you might have.  I do not personally want the slim jim but i have a friend who will pay for one and any books on how to use them.  e-mail me with any info on anything you want to sell, you might be surprised at what i will buy!!!!! You betcha!! we got ‘em.  Use ‘em mostly over here to shoot carp and squawfish.  Have a special today on the whitefish model though only for resident Montanans and Oregonians. YOu must be going to Arizona State right?  Does your mother know you are doing these things?????                                       8^                                            Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

– Dr. Robert K. Sato Catalytica Inc. 430 Ferguson Drive Mountain View, CA  94043   USA Voice:  (415)940-6375 Fax:    (415)960-0127

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(Allan Gay) writes:     I live in Arizona and I am looking into purchasing a crossbow just to shoot for fun and possibly at pigs during the handgun season.  If you have a used crossbow that you want to sell respond to me personally with a description of what crossbow you have and how much you are willing to sell it for.  I live in mesa, I am ready to buy right now, don’t waste time e-mailing me, I want to start shooting as soon as possible,  I pay in cash. with a description and whatever price you want for it.   I will get back to all of you.  I am serious, I am ready to pay cash right now for a recurve or crossbow or if you have both.  E-mail me right now for jims, any other cool toys you might have.  I do not personally want the slim jim but i have a friend who will pay for one and any books on how to use them.  e-mail me with any info on anything you want to sell, you might be surprised at what i will buy!!!!!

You betcha!! we got ‘em.  Use ‘em mostly over here to shoot carp and squawfish.  Have a special today on the whitefish model though only for resident Montanans and Oregonians. YOu must be going to Arizona State right?  Does your mother know you are doing these things?????                                       8^                                            Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

     I live in Arizona and I am looking into purchasing a crossbow just to shoot for fun and possibly at pigs during the handgun season.  If you have a used crossbow that you want to sell respond to me personally with a description of what crossbow you have and how much you are willing to sell it for.  I live in mesa, I am ready to buy right now, don’t waste time e-mailing me, I want to start shooting as soon as possible,  I pay in cash. with a description and whatever price you want for it.   I will get back to all of you.  I am serious, I am ready to pay cash right now for a recurve or crossbow or if you have both.  E-mail me right now for  any other cool toys you might have.  I do not personally want the slim jim but i have a friend who will pay for one and any books on how to use them.  e-mail me with any info on anything you want to sell, you might be surprised at what i will buy!!!!!

Response:

Question:

I just wanted to know what the law says about me giving way a few bottles of homebrew to my friends. Thanks, Steve — //         Stephen W. Berrick               Voice: (301) 982-3700            // // Research and Data Systems Corporation           (301) 982-3748            // //     7855 Walker Drive, Suite 460           Fax: (301) 982-3749            //

Response:

: I just wanted to know what the law says about me giving way a few : bottles of homebrew to my friends. Each state is a bit different, but most places, as long as you don’t sell it in any way, giving a few out to friends is perfectly OK.  And going to competitions with your wonderful concotions doesn’t need any license either (as far as I know, anyway). — Bloomington, IN  47406            (812) 855-1415 —- All opinions are my own — you know the drill. —– "I could get much more work done if I had a bigger wastebasket." "Deja brew — we have all been beer before." "Use the Brew, Luke."

Response:

The law says relax…well you know the rest. Please keep in mind that this post is from an outlaw. Matt

Response:

: I just wanted to know what the law says about me giving way a few : bottles of homebrew to my friends. Each state is a bit different, but most places, as long as you don’t sell it in any way, giving a few out to friends is perfectly OK.  And going to competitions with your wonderful concotions doesn’t need any license either (as far as I know, anyway).

Careful here. Steve, you should only trust legal advice from an attorney which you hires, but… I don’t have it in front of me, but my memory of the FEDERAL regulation that permits homebrewing is that the brew may [legally] be consumed in the household in which it is produced. In addition, the brew may be taken to clubs and competitions for sampling. Further, my interpretation is that giving beer to your friends is a "gray area." In other words, the regulation is not expicit and can be interpreted either way. I would like to point out that I believe in some states (notably Alabama) homebrewing is not legal at all. Does that mean if you give your friends some brews that the ATF or the state police will be breaking down your door. I doubt it. I give away brews or take them to party’s all the time. But if you give it away for some service that you would normally pay money for , or are intending to run for political office, or be a presidential appointee, then I would recommend caution. The bottom line is the only way to find out the answer to Steve’s question for sure is to hire an attorney to find out. –Russ

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ltpsun2.gsfc.nasa.gov): Each state is a bit different, but most places, as long as you don’t sell it in any way, giving a few out to friends is perfectly OK.  And going to competitions with your wonderful concotions doesn’t need any license either (as far as I know, anyway).

Here’s another for all the jailhouse lawyers out there: Can I *donate* homebrew to my favorite non-profit groups?  I’m a member of a group that seems to do much of its fundraising at the chapter level through raffles and auctions of donated merchandise (hint: when I’m done here, I’m headed over to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly).  In other chapters, members have donated homebrew, cleverly named, which the chapter then auctions or raffles off and keeps the proceedes.  I see at least three knotty issues:    o   Can I donate my beer?    o   Can my chapter make money by raffling or auctioning it?    o   Can I (and this is r-e-a-l-l-y a stretch) take any tax deduction,        even if just for the raw materials? Has anyone looked into this, or are you willing to take a wild guess and get me into real trouble with the IRS, BATF, and other assorted authority figures?

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OK, how about this one then: Is it legal to serve homebrew to someone in your home if they are under 21 but over legal drinking age for the country they are visiting from… Yep, this came up as a real issue. –arne

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AT ATOK, how about this one then: AT ATIs it legal to serve homebrew to someone in your home if they are under AT21 but over legal drinking age for the country they are visiting from… AT ATYep, this came up as a real issue. AT AT–arne Easy Arne, The issue here is not homebrew but rather serving alcohol to an underaged person.  Each state is going to be different, but the home country of the underaged person will (without exception I’d be willing to bet) be irrelevant.  A person "lives and dies" according to the local law. Here in Ohio, the only circumstances under which an underaged person may drink alcoholic beverages is when he/she is "accompanied by a parent, spouse who is not an underaged person, or legal guardian, or [when] the beer or intoxicating liquor is given by a physician in the regular line of his practice or given for established religious purposes." Ohio Rev. Code Sec. 4301.69(E). I hope this clears it up for you. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: : Jeff Pyatt                     Cincinnati, OH   : :                                                 : :   "Times like this make me wish I could fly!"   : ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: … Reality is an illusion caused by lack of alcohol. — . TLX v3.30 . — . SLMR 2.1 .

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The bottom line is the only way to find out the answer to Steve’s question for sure is to hire an attorney to find out.

And then only trust his/her advice as far as you can throw him/her! Matt

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Here’s another for all the jailhouse lawyers out there: Can I *donate* homebrew to my favorite non-profit groups?  I’m a member of a group that seems to do much of its fundraising at the chapter level through raffles and auctions of donated merchandise (hint: when I’m done here, I’m headed over to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly).  In other chapters, members have donated homebrew, cleverly named, which the chapter then auctions or raffles off and keeps the proceedes.  I see at least three knotty issues:    o   Can I donate my beer?    o   Can my chapter make money by raffling or auctioning it?    o   Can I (and this is r-e-a-l-l-y a stretch) take any tax deduction,        even if just for the raw materials? Has anyone looked into this, or are you willing to take a wild guess and get me into real trouble with the IRS, BATF, and other assorted authority figures?

I imagine that this would vary by state.  In MA, as of 1992, I found mention of donating wine to auctions, yet not beer (homebrewed or otherwise). This may not sound like the best idea, but I would feign ignorance and raffle/auction the beer as a vitamin supplement. .marc — Human temporal perceptions are completely inadequate, all the really cool beings hang out in fast forward.

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OK, how about this one then: Is it legal to serve homebrew to someone in your home if they are under 21 but over legal drinking age for the country they are visiting from…

I think this depends on the locality and the fact that the alcoholic beverage is homebrew, and the underage person foreign are irrelevent. While most Europenas consider this American law to be utterly ridiculous, it is worth remembering that the USA also had prohibition, and possession of small amount of certain chemicals is a more serious crime in many states that assault and rape and stuff.  I think it may stem from too much democracy, with democracy meaning the right of people who are intereseted and give a shit to run for government office, and in general these hitlerwannabees get their rocks off by restricting freedom.  A friend who lives in Palatine, IL informed me that the city of Arlington Heights recently passed a law making it illegal to give any alcoholic beverages to anybody under 21. I guess they’ll back this up with East German type quizzing of kids in school. Don’t wrroy about legality.  Worry about what you think is right and wrong and if these don’t quite gel, worry about whether you can get caught.  My impression here is that Americans seem to be way too concerned about legalily rather than morality.  How often do you hear a politician defending his corrupt behaviour by saying he did nothing illegal?   ‘There was a  master come unto the earth, | Ulick Stafford,                    born in the holy land of Indiana,      | Dept of Chemical Engineering,   in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne’.| Notre Dame, IN 46556          

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: OK, how about this one then: : Is it legal to serve homebrew to someone in your home if they are under : 21 but over legal drinking age for the country they are visiting from… Would it be legal for you to supply him with drugs if he was Dutch?    N’Yawk, N’Yawk                                           =o&o

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OK, how about this one then: Is it legal to serve homebrew to someone in your home if they are under 21 but over legal drinking age for the country they are visiting from…

Probably not, but then how would anyone know? In general everyone must obey the laws of the country they are in. If I go to Sinapore and vandlize some cars, can I avoid caning if I’m from the US? –Russ

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OK, how about this one then: Is it legal to serve homebrew to someone in your home if they are under 21 but over legal drinking age for the country they are visiting from… Yep, this came up as a real issue.

only if you are in the country they are visiting from… —       WA9BVE            | No free man shall ever be de-barred the use of arms.  The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government.                                         – Thomas Jefferson

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OK, how about this one then: Is it legal to serve homebrew to someone in your home if they are under 21 but over legal drinking age for the country they are visiting from… Yep, this came up as a real issue. –arne

In Australia it is legal to serve alcohol to anyone in your own home as long as you have the permision of whoever is responsible for them.  Although I am sure there are limits to this …I really don’t know….

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Don’t wrroy about legality.  Worry about what you think is right and wrong and if these don’t quite gel, worry about whether you can get caught.  My impression here is that Americans seem to be way too concerned about legalily rather than morality.  How often do you hear a politician defending his corrupt behaviour by saying he did nothing illegal?

Sorry to waste bandwidth on a not strictly related to brewing thread, but I must say a hearty "Well said" to Ulick.  I am not sure I’ve ever heard my own feelings put so succinctly (certainly, I have never done so well). Of course, one must always keep in mind what to do if one does get caught doing what the law considers inappopriate . . . (no officer, those are shitake mushrooms – oh, yes, they are quite a gourmet delicacy – here, have a few – don’t worry about that strange dizzy sensation . . . Seriously, a person is not likely to get hassled for giving alcohol to children or under-aged guests in the privacy of their own home, unless they are actually throwing an underage drinking party.  My parents always permitted me to drink wine with them since I was 9 or so (probably would have let me try it earlier if I had asked) and I expect to do the same with my kids, whenever I have them. Space Processor Software Engineering  |   Loral Federal Systems, Manassas, VA   |  (703) 367-6171

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I am not a tax lawyer, so can only offer my own opinion. I work for a well known agency of the Treasury, and my interpretation is that any acceptance of remuneration in exchange for untaxed alcoholic beverage is illegal. No matter how you disguise the transfer, even involving a third party who may be tax exempt, you have exchanged homebrew for economic gain. That is a NO NO! For a legal opinion that might count, consult a tax attorney or contact the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms through the Treasury Dept. Your own state’s Alcoholic Beverage Control Board (or whatever they call themselves) will also give you an opinion. Remember, opinions, no matter how impressive the credentials of the giver, are only opinions. The real test comes when you actually go to court.

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Here’s another for all the jailhouse lawyers out there: Can I *donate* homebrew to my favorite non-profit groups?  I’m a member of a group that seems to do much of its fundraising at the chapter level through raffles and auctions of donated merchandise (hint: when I’m done here, I’m headed over to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly).  In other chapters, members have donated homebrew, cleverly named, which the chapter then auctions or raffles off and keeps the proceedes.  I see at least three knotty issues:

If anyone is familiar with the Society for Creative Anacronism at an event in the Boston Area we had an auction a while ago to raise money for our group. The action was conducted by two master brewers. And the "Box" that the brewers donated went for quite a bit. Zach (for more info on the SCA e-mail me)

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