Question:

As an "old school" fly fisher and UseNet user ( since 1995 ) I try to follow one simple rule. Leave any environment I use, as good, preferably, better than I found it. Thus I pick up litter, maybe help TU install a stream structure. I doubt that I’d find many here that would admit to doing otherwise onstream, i.e. intentionally degrading the fishing landscape. But, I’d like to suggest that THIS news group is part of your intellectual environment, and indeed, a part of your fishing one. Possibly, before pushing "send," a look around to see if your visit is improving the landscape, or intentionally degrading it, would make sense? —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

<snip Possibly, before pushing "send," a look around to see if your visit is improving the landscape, or intentionally degrading it, would make sense?

I don’t see how this post improves my landscape. Quit shitting on my lawn. — HTH, Tim

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As an "old school" fly fisher and UseNet user ( since 1995 ) I try to follow one simple rule. Leave any environment I use, as good, preferably, better than I found it. Thus I pick up litter, maybe help TU install a stream structure. I doubt that I’d find many here that would admit to doing otherwise onstream, i.e. intentionally degrading the fishing landscape. But, I’d like to suggest that THIS news group is part of your intellectual environment, and indeed, a part of your fishing one. Possibly, before pushing "send," a look around to see if your visit is improving the landscape, or intentionally degrading it, would make sense?

As one of the worst OT offenders I suppose I’m honour bound to disagree.  Somebody used the pub analogy to describe ROFF, much better than your streamside one.  We are brought here by a love of fly fishing but once here, we are not bound by it. As far as the cross-posting trolls are concerned, that’s why the Lord made kill filters. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

no problem, I’m gone  …. enjoy whatever satisfaction you get from behaving so childishly there are lots of things I don’t understand, cyber-hate and bad manners is one of them,  but I can live without the understanding tight lines —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

<snip Possibly, before pushing "send," a look around to see if your visit is improving the landscape, or intentionally degrading it, would make sense? I don’t see how this post improves my landscape. Quit shitting on my lawn.

Uh, oh. I forgot the smiley. :-X Honestly, Larry, this group has been pretty much the same for the past year or so I’ve been watching and posting. All of the regular posters give valuable input – to someone. Also, this group is entertainment for many *because* of its anarchy. I have enjoyed the past few days of discussion between Peter and Richard regarding economics, but I’m sure some others may have been put off by the same. "One man’s poison. . . " — TL, Tim

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Looks like the environment just got MUCH better! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – no problem, I’m gone

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I just love advice from an anonymous poster.  The "old school" that I belong to use their names. Dave

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I just love advice from an anonymous poster.  The "old school" that I belong to use their names.

which he doesn’t subscribe. I do feel badly that I forgot the smiley, though. Before I started posting anything here, I lurked for several months and decided I had thick enough skin to dive in. If one assholish post from me was enough to drive him off, he’d better just be glad he didn’t get Wolfgang or Ken.  :)) — TL, Tim

Response:

As one of the worst OT offenders I suppose I’m honour bound to disagree.  Somebody used the pub analogy to describe ROFF, much better than your streamside one.  We are brought here by a love of fly fishing but once here, we are not bound by it.

Although Larry’s sentiment is noble, I gotta go with Peter on this.   Not only is the pub analogy apropos, but it also extends to ffing itself, at least the way I do it.   When I hit the rivers, I’m not there just to fish; but also to smoke some fine cigars, drink some good whisky, take a few pictures, watch the birds, shoot the shit with my fishing buddy, and maybe learn a thing or two.   Fly fishing is only the baseline. The only other fault I’d find with the suggestion is that those who are inclined to behave civilly already do so, and chronic sociopaths will not likely be swayed by another chorous of Cumbayah. Joe F.

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[snip] As far as the cross-posting trolls are concerned, that’s why the Lord made kill filters.

You must be using IE

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As one of the worst OT offenders I suppose I’m honour bound to disagree.  Somebody used the pub analogy to describe ROFF, much better than your streamside one.  We are brought here by a love of fly fishing but once here, we are not bound by it. Although Larry’s sentiment is noble, I gotta go with Peter on this.

<snip IMO, I have the feeling the sentiment was not noble, but an effort to stir the pot. When tracing the IP address from Larry’s posts, the trace goes through the normal hops and then bounces back and forth between two servers indefinitely. Maybe this is normal in some circumstances, but I’ve not seen it before. Can anyone from geekdom shed some light? — TL, Tim

Response:

IMO, I have the feeling the sentiment was not noble, but an effort to stir the pot.

Could be, I suppose.   I initially assumed that "Larry" was Dub’s owner, but that doesn’t appear to be the case. Joe (geekly deficient) F.

Response:

….those who are inclined to behave civilly already do so, and chronic sociopaths will not likely be swayed by another chorous of Cumbayah. Joe F.

Oh, I don’t know about that…..sing it for me one more time.     Wolfgang c’mon….let’s all hold hands this time!

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[snip] As far as the cross-posting trolls are concerned, that’s why the Lord made kill filters. You must be using IE

Hmm….You probably meant OE… And Peter’s using Agent. /daytripper (An old version at that. Time to update, Peter, we’re up to 1.92!)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] As far as the cross-posting trolls are concerned, that’s why the Lord made kill filters. You must be using IE Hmm….You probably meant OE… And Peter’s using Agent. /daytripper (An old version at that. Time to update, Peter, we’re up to 1.92!)

(nasal whine mode on) But I like my Agent the way it is. Do I have to huh, huh? (nasal whine mode off) (bad things always happen when I get updated) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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And all sing along Wolfie you start i follow.                    Handyman Mike           Standing in a river waving a stick

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] As far as the cross-posting trolls are concerned, that’s why the Lord made kill filters. You must be using IE Hmm….You probably meant OE… And Peter’s using Agent. /daytripper (An old version at that. Time to update, Peter, we’re up to 1.92!) (nasal whine mode on) But I like my Agent the way it is. Do I have to huh, huh? (nasal whine mode off) (bad things always happen when I get updated)

Going from 1.8-something to the current version was painless, Peter. No worries… /daytripper (Two words to the paranoid: "Drive Image".

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Question:

As much as I would like to say we are not so individual as we would like to think.. in this case, we really are. Yes, we’re all individuals! ~raises hand~ i’m not…. *grin* (not really.  just couldn’t let the MP reference go by uncommented.)

Thank you. I’m glad someone got it. R.

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I worship the moon Goddess Diana/Artimis

It is a popular misconception that Diana is the Goddess of the Moon.  In fact, she was the Goddess of the Sun.  The name Diana means "light".   – Chive "There be some whose lives are as if they perpetually played a part upon a stage, disguised to all others, open only to themselves."

Question:

<cruel gastronomic description filleted Hell of a thing to do to a guy at three in the afternoon with nothing edible is sight! But this is the kind of story we like to read.  While mostly a C&R fisherman (Egad, here it comes again!!) I do nevertheless keep enough to treat myself once in a while.  Your description of smoked ducks brings to mind my favorite preparation for trout.  We set them on the Weber, as far from a small pile of glowing coals as possible and leave them for about an hour and a half, all the while adding small amounts of soaked hickory chips to the fire; just enough to keep the smoke going strong.  Sinfully good!  But to top it off (and healthy be damned!) I like to slather on a bit of brie. As for the elk, or any of it’s relatives for that matter, my favorite is still soaking in olive oil for a few hours, wrapping in bacon and grilling over a hot bed of coals until medium rare, at most.  Personally I prefer rare, but most of the people with whom I enjoy this treat like it cooked a bit more.  For those who like to live close to the edge in these diet conscious days, the aforementioned soft cheese can also be applied to red meat. Also……but no, it’ll have to wait for another time….I gotta go get something to eat!

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Actually, last April we dined on a brace of Elk Steaks marinated for

(delicious feast snipped) Omigosh, Larry! If you can’t figure out anything worthwhile to do with your elk, let me know what Wolfgang can’t use and I’ll send you my UPS address! Hate to see it go to waist (sp intentional!). Drooling out loud, Rick

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As for the elk, or any of it’s relatives for that matter, my favorite is still soaking in olive oil for a few hours, wrapping in bacon and grilling over a hot bed of coals until medium rare, at most.  Personally I prefer rare, but most of the people with whom I enjoy this treat like it cooked a bit more.  For those who like to live close to the edge in these diet conscious days, the aforementioned soft cheese can also be applied to red meat.

While simultaneously drooling on my keyboard, I gotta ask: Not that it’s stopped me from slurping down raw oysters or eating my steaks rare, but we’ve all seen the "news magazine" horror stories about contamination of domestic meats; and we’ve all been cautioned about the wisdom of thoroughly cooking our food.   So this "wild meat" thread has me wondering.   Nutritional values aside, is there a similar risk of e-coli or parasitic infection from eating game cooked rare?   Just wondering. Joe F.

Response:

Joe- I’m sure the same concerns exist, especially because this meat isn’t irradiated to kill any potential diseases and like most hunters, the animals are field dressed, packaged well enough to pack out against the heat of one’s body on a frame and kept from thorough refrigeration for a day or more……then brought home in the bed of a truck or some such device. Same’s true for ducks, geese, pheasant, quail, etc….most hunters will bring em home and hang em for a couple of days prior to guttin’ and pluckin’ em…. helps to age the meat some and also makes em easier to dress out…. But with that said, I gotta ALSO say this….I’ve eaten wild game for some 35 years now, on at least 6 occassions a year (not counting the jerky and salame!!) and have NEVER gotten a case of gastrointestinal distention, much less any more disastrous effect from it, aside from gettin’ stuffed like a pig and not knowing when to say ENOUGH!!!  (BTW, Wild Pig is great too!!!) Now to the rest of you…sorry to set y’all to droolin’ in the middle of the day…..just wasn’t a prudent thing to do, I mean someday I KNOW all a y’all will return the favor =)   Especially those of you who have access to CRAWFISH!!!!   Oh yeah….neighbor has a pair of bucks down at the butcher shop as we speak……hee hee hee…. Larry #:)#

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[pared] Now to the rest of you…sorry to set y’all to droolin’ in the middle of the day…..just wasn’t a prudent thing to do, I mean someday I KNOW all a y’all will return the favor =)   Especially those of you who have access to CRAWFISH!!!!   Oh yeah….neighbor has a pair of bucks down at the butcher shop as we speak……hee hee hee….

Geezus Christmas! Between you and Wolfie (and even "Oyster Joe" ;^) I’m dying here! Show some mercy for someone who had to deal with airline food today! /daytripper (rummaging through the ‘fridge…)

Response:

rare, but we’ve all seen the "news magazine" horror stories about

(contamination, etc) wondering.   Nutritional values aside, is there a similar risk of e-coli or parasitic infection from eating game cooked rare?   Just wondering.

Joe, Don’t know how accurate this info is (wouldn’t want anyone getting sick) but during one of the recent e. coli outbreaks, I was reading some "warning" info in the paper. Author seemed to think the problem with rare meat (red meat, not poultry, which has its own caveats) occurs primarily with ground meat as opposed to "cut" meat like steaks, roasts, etc. The advice was based on the idea that bacteria grow on the surface of the meat and are killed by heat, so the "cut" meat can be cooked rare as long as the outside was cooked well. Ground meat becomes a problem as you shape it into patties or whatever because what was once on the surface could be mixed into the interior and therefore you should cook to much greater degree of "doneness" to ensure you got the bugs. Your local ag extension office probably has a nutritionist that can put this to rest. If not, let me know and I’ll check–my brother-in-law is an extension agent and I’m sure has some info available. Anyway, the newspaper article makes sense on the surface, but I’d like to hear other opinions… Cheers, Rick

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If it makes you all feel better, I caught a 12 inch smallmouth bass today. First cast too! Man are they tasty! ……Well, time for supper!

: [pared] : : Now to the rest of you…sorry to set y’all to droolin’ in the middle of : the day…..just wasn’t a prudent thing to do, I mean someday I KNOW all : a y’all will return the favor =)   Especially those of you who have : access to CRAWFISH!!!!   Oh yeah….neighbor has a pair of bucks down at : the butcher shop as we speak……hee hee hee…. : Geezus Christmas! Between you and Wolfie (and even "Oyster Joe" ;^) : I’m dying here! : Show some mercy for someone who had to deal with airline food today! : /daytripper (rummaging through the ‘fridge…) — I’m a Canadian eh!                                              Steve. The FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking is at: http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal The metalworking drop box  is at           http://www.metalworking.com                                     or     http://208.213.200.132 Visit my website at: http://www.victoria.tc.ca/~ud233/homepage.htm

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From a river or lake……? do you think it was big enough to have spawned it’s first time….?john

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<good analysis snipped I have thought about this issue long and hard for a long time.  Like Larry, I’ve eaten a lot of game over the years and have never suffered any ill effects from lightly cooked meat.  In fact, I eat venison or some sort of game bird about once a week. Ground meat is obviously more dangerous for the reasons mentioned, i.e. any surface contamination is thoroughly mixed into the center of the mass where the bacteria cannot be killed except by thorough cooking.  But I believe that the problem is exacerbated by the way commercially packaged meat is handled.  The game I eat is processed at home in very small masses.  A couple of birds at a time or a single deer.  Compare this with the beef you just bought at the grocery store.  This package of meat just went down the same line as some hundreds or thousands of pounds of meat processed in the same day.  Any bacterial contamination has all day to grow and multiply.  Add to this the fact that sanitation between days may be less than perfect and you have a situation in which the proliferation of E. choli, Salmonella or other bacteria is virtually assured.  Obviously, contamination can be minimized by scrupulously cleaning all work surfaces but we all know how easy it is for someone to get a little bit careless, especially some underpaid meat cutter bored to distraction by a mindless routine job. In short, it seems to me that, counterintuitively, game processed and packaged at home is likely to be safer than commercially packed meat because it isn’t dragged through the same slime as tons of other meat. Bon Apetit!

Response:

From a lake. There are no smallmouth bass in rivers around here. At 12 inches they have spawned many times!

: From a river or lake……? : do you think it was big enough to have spawned it’s first time….?john — I’m a Canadian eh!                                              Steve. The FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking is at: http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal The metalworking drop box  is at           http://www.metalworking.com                                     or     http://208.213.200.132 Visit my website at: http://www.victoria.tc.ca/~ud233/homepage.htm

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snip< Bon Apetit!

Thanks Rick, Larry, Dave, & Wolfgang.   My curiosity, if not my appetite, is satisfied. I think I’ll have some sushi tonight. Joe F. "I always eat my oysters fried. That way I know my oyster’s died."     ….Roy Blount, Jr.

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Hello: My second posting ever…but I could use some suggestions. Am trying to tie the Henry’s Fork hopper……bundled elk or deer hair, extended body, etc. I have a little tourble with purportions but that’ll take time I guess.  But most especially, when reversing the elk hair for the body it seems to break and make a rough tail on the body…which is not what I bought…and don’t want to, anymore! I’ve got the books but need some experience…..’hints & kinks’, etc. Thanks for everything you folks post….I appreciate you! Buff

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I would give it up.  The best hopper imitation I have used, is the old trusty Letort Hopper.  I’ve caught lots of big, streamwise brown trout on that fly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: My second posting ever…but I could use some suggestions. Am trying to tie the Henry’s Fork hopper……bundled elk or deer hair, extended body, etc. I have a little tourble with purportions but that’ll take time I guess. But most especially, when reversing the elk hair for the body it seems to break and make a rough tail on the body…which is not what I bought…and don’t want to, anymore! I’ve got the books but need some experience…..’hints & kinks’, etc. Thanks for everything you folks post….I appreciate you! Buff

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My first two guesses are: 1) You’re using TOO MUCH hair     try using less first 2) You’re using the wrong hair or old hair     if it’s from the wrong part of the elk or it’s old, it’ll break when you bend/fold it Larry #:)#

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My first two guesses are: 1) You’re using TOO MUCH hair    try using less first 2) You’re using the wrong hair or old hair    if it’s from the wrong part of the elk or it’s old, it’ll break when you bend/fold it Larry #:)#

I agree with Larry on #2.  Also might be the wrong thread.  If the thread is too small it will cut through the hair as well. Warren

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My first two guesses are: 1) You’re using TOO MUCH hair    try using less first 2) You’re using the wrong hair or old hair    if it’s from the wrong part of the elk or it’s old, it’ll break when you bend/fold it Larry #:)# I agree with Larry on #2.  Also might be the wrong thread.  If the thread is too small it will cut through the hair as well. Warren

_______  Warren?  Good point.  Larry Madina also has the perfect suggestion but he didn’t say what area on an Elk is best.  Let’s look at the Wapiti or deer family of different animals. 1) There are many different ways to tie Deer Hair style Caddis patterns.  Many. 2) The hair on herbivores (from the ground, up) on the legs or shins, it is thinnest and smallest in diameter.  Also around the face and/or mask area. 3) The largest diameter hair is around the belly.  The belly is the boiler room and contains a lot of blood and needs to be kept warm because it also is the area that has the largest surface area on herbivores that must survive in freezing outdoor temperatures.  This hair is also the thickest and has large, hollow hairs.  Air inside these belly hairs is a dramatic insulator against cold.  The hair also contains a lot of underdubbing/fur/matting/etc. that is a ‘blanket’ against wind.  It is what keeps wind from getting THRU the hair and against the skin/hide.  It is an interesting study in nature’s engineering. The hollowness of Elk hair, when you spin certain patterns such as muddler heads, when you bear down with the tying thread is what makes it explode or open up.  This ‘kinking’ is nothing more then a way to make the hair do what you want it to do.  Shin hairs do not flair out like the hollower hairs around the belly of elk and/or deer. The hair on the back of herbivores is also thin in diameter and not as thick.  Why?  I cannot but venture a guess.  Its not necessary because the body heat inside happens to keep the roof dry, sort of speaking. This is also a good area or source for selecting Elk hair. 4)  When one is in a fly shop, you have to know what you’re looking at with each package which has but a small piece of and entire Elk inside it.  You need to know what is leg hair, what is belly hair, what is neck hair, what is facial hair, what is back hair, what is flank hair, etc. And so it goes. Elk Hair patterns seldom use large diameter Elk Hair.  I usually use the back and most often leg hair.  The Caddis wing only needs to flair just a little.  It is not necessary to fold it back after tying it in at the head/forward.  These are not hollow hairs and when Ginked, its enough to float a caddis that has no hollow Elk or Deer Hair.  I tie a great many of my Caddis Patterns with Mule Deer because I happen to like the black and coloration of Mule Deer above all things regarding ‘Caddis’. However; Elk Hair comes in colors and shadings other then blonde.   So when fly tiers are talking HOW TO tie any pattern, the industry at large should start stating WHAT part of an Elk/Deer they are using. This is vital information but somehow, everyone seems to not think its important.  I, on the other hand think it is vital, if anyone is to tie a fly that has ‘the proper signature’ of that offered by its author. To Larry Madina, who I think is an above average fly tier, I hope you can agree that this information is proper regarding flies tied with the hairs from herbivores.  That being more specific is indeed, rather important. Hope this helps Warren the cause of tying really great Caddis Patterns. Lets face it. Throughout most trout rivers and streams, its really "The Caddis" that is king. We can discuss it more over at the camp site some evening.  Hours between 1700 PDT and 2000 EST.   Gink Keeps It Up — Mr. G.   http://www.gink.com/chat   "Flyfisherman’s Camp Fires Burning" Fly Fishing’s Talking Camp Site  

Question:

I may not speak for the majority, but I know I speak for many of my long-time flyfishing friends… A River Runs Thru It is not and never will be our favorite flyfishing movie!  My respects of course to Mr. Maclean and his talents.  Had he known what the effects of the film would be on many of our previously uncrowded and pristine streams and rivers, he may have had second thoughts on the film rights.

Response:

Good book though… What is your favorite flyfishing movie?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I may not speak for the majority, but I know I speak for many of my long-time flyfishing friends… A River Runs Thru It is not and never will be our favorite flyfishing movie!  My respects of course to Mr. Maclean and his talents.  Had he known what the effects of the film would be on many of our previously uncrowded and pristine streams and rivers, he may have had second thoughts on the film rights.

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Good book though… What is your favorite flyfishing movie?

The River Wild . . . wait they used guns, not fly rods.

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My respects of course to Mr. Maclean and his talents.  Had he known what the effects of the film would be on many of our previously uncrowded and pristine streams and rivers, he may have had second thoughts on the film rights.

What?!? You don’t like it when you go fishing and somebody comes up to you and asks "I heard they filmed ‘A River Runs Through It’ around here.  Was it here?" Seriously have had people ask me that before. Too bad they didn’t set it in CA and then they could have just toured their own state.

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Hi I’m one of the owners of Reel Deals Movie Posters. We carry hundreds of movie posters and sell them all over the world. I’m certain we have movie posters for your favorite movies. Check out our web site. The prices are reasonable. Web address: http://www.reeldeals.com

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Question:

The fishing inside the park was great when was there.  I saw two others fishing in a week. Lots of little Brookies. Crystal clear feeder brooks. Didn’t crawl way up into the high country so can’t say about that, and the only water of any size is paralleled by the main park road. Lots of easy access but you are kind of in a fish bowl as half of New Jersey drives by. But again the fishing was great.  Seem to remember some interesting water back in off the Cade’s Cove area. Don’t know why you would need a guide, just decent maps. The town itself and "Dollywood" could use a good cleaning out with a flame thrower. A real indictment of private sector greed and Babbitry. Or on the positive thinking side, it "offers many entertaining and shopping adventures" for the non-fishers in your party.  The park itself is magnificent. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone help me in finding out how the fly fishings is in the Gatlinburg / Jackson Mnt. area is and the names of the streams and possibly good references on some guides !!!         there are plenty places in gatlinburg to provide you with the style of fishing you deserve.  and if you don’t find the answer there, drive east to cherokee, n.c., and they will fix you right up. Try old smoky outfitters in Gatlinburg, The creel in Knoxville and The Little river outfitters in Townsend. I know the old smoky outfitters are online at http://thesmokies.com/oldsmoky_outfitters/

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Can anyone help me in finding out how the fly fishings is in the Gatlinburg / Jackson Mnt. area is and the names of the streams and possibly good references on some guides !!!

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Can anyone help me in finding out how the fly fishings is in the Gatlinburg / Jackson Mnt. area is and the names of the streams and possibly good references on some guides !!!

        there are plenty places in gatlinburg to provide you with the style of fishing you deserve.  and if you don’t find the answer there, drive east to cherokee, n.c., and they will fix you right up.

Response:

Can anyone help me in finding out how the fly fishings is in the Gatlinburg / Jackson Mnt. area is and the names of the streams and possibly good references on some guides !!!         there are plenty places in gatlinburg to provide you with the style of fishing you deserve.  and if you don’t find the answer there, drive east to cherokee, n.c., and they will fix you right up.

Try old smoky outfitters in Gatlinburg, The creel in Knoxville and The Little river outfitters in Townsend. I know the old smoky outfitters are online at http://thesmokies.com/oldsmoky_outfitters/

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Question:

I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water.  My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

      My favorite fishen hole is in a little canal off the St.John’s river. right under the I-4 bridge as it rises to cross the river and people are always pulling off 17/92 where it goes along side Lake Monrow. They get used to it. If you got room to cast, the water looks right go fishen.                                                          John Popp                                                      in Sanford Fl.

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That’s the key… it’s right on the way home from work!    I used to have that situation with a beautiful little mountain lake.  It was a mile down a dirt road, right on the way home from work.  I brought my float tube to work every day.  If the weather got shitty and I didn’t get to fish for a day or two on the way home, I started getting very irritable — withdrawl symptoms! You’re lucky to have a place like that, I think.

Yea, it is nice this time of the year, it’s the other six months I get tired of. I commute over a 7800′ mountain in some of the most incredible snow storms you can imagine! I guess the hard Winters are what makes this time of year especially enjoyable.  I can’t believe I have waited so long  (14 years) to take up fly fishing, late bloomer I suppose!  So much time to make up for, but I am up to the job!!! Rich

Response:

Rich, The water in the Carson is too rough for a little vibration from a truck or car to bother the trout.  Both forks of the Carson are good fly fishing streams. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO http://users.ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water.  My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

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Set up hard on a 3 inch brook trout sending it into the windshield of a passing car…. "Jeeeeeezus Martha….Didja see THAT bug…criminy  !" — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Set up hard on a 3 inch brook trout sending it into the windshield of a passing car…. "Jeeeeeezus Martha….Didja see THAT bug…criminy  !"

    For a moment I thought this was a response to the "Frying Pan, Roaring Fork" thread. Reminds me of some of the lower water on the Pan. Tom Christian External Technology Program Hewlett-Packard Laboratories 3404 East Harmony Road Fort Collins, CO 80528-9599 Phone: (970) 898-3531 FAX: (970) 898-6198

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My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks.

I don’t think fish can hear the noises that we on the bank can hear but they can feel vibrations and river bed disturbance. Some of my best fish have been caught immediately under a UK motorway bridge (a very busy dual carriage way road).  The noise drives me up the wall but the fish don’t seem to notice it – at least, they favour the deep pool below / under / above the bridge.  But they know all about it if I stumble through the pool in the dark in my studded waders… Street lights are also a problem for those of us who fish for sea trout by night. I’ve heard that migratory fish are intimidated by bridges and other over-water structures.  Anyone have any knowledge / theories on this? — Phil Jones

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The water in the Carson is too rough for a little vibration from a truck or car to bother the trout.  Both forks of the Carson are good fly fishing streams.

Almost too rough for a newbie! Tried it with a weighted wooly bugger and single split shot. Never even felt the bottom!

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Last August I was on highway 50 heading back to SF from Tahoe.  This road runs along the (North Branch?) American River which looked fishable along certain spots.  It’s a two lane highway with loads of traffic and about 40′ above water level.  Parked alongside the road I could spot several trout beside a large boulder less than 5 feet from shore.  Traffic didn’t seem to be bothering them.  Mu Young Lee         Ann Arbor, MI  o             oooo                          o   o   o o   o o o  o – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water.  My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

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This is a tough time of year to fly fish any of the Sierra streams.  It will get better around the end of June.   — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO http://users.ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The water in the Carson is too rough for a little vibration from a truck or car to bother the trout.  Both forks of the Carson are good fly fishing streams. Almost too rough for a newbie! Tried it with a weighted wooly bugger and single split shot. Never even felt the bottom!

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I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water.  My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

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I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water.  My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

What’s the water like?  Whitewater drowns out other noise VERY well.  I’ve fished on the Wilson in Oregon, highway 6 runs right along the river.  Standing near the whitewater with a tree or two to hide the cars and you’d think you were in the middle of nowhere.  On the other hand, the sound of the water can get "deafening" after a while.  I’m used to it, but my brother was visiting and had to leave for a bit to let his ears stop ringing. Why don’t you go try it and see?  If you like it, stay, if not try to find somewhere else. Later,      - Ken

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What’s the water like?

Right now it’s it’s fairly fast due to snow melt off, in fact I think it’s too deep for good fishing although I have tried it up river a bit.  I will definately try it as a bit at a time.  I figure it will be  great way to unwind on the way home from work this summer!  

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What’s the water like? Right now it’s it’s fairly fast due to snow melt off, in fact I think it’s too deep for good fishing although I have tried it up river a bit.  I will definately try it as a bit at a time.  I figure it will be  great way to unwind on the way home from work this summer!

That’s the key… it’s right on the way home from work!    I used to have that situation with a beautiful little mountain lake.  It was a mile down a dirt road, right on the way home from work.  I brought my float tube to work every day.  If the weather got shitty and I didn’t get to fish for a day or two on the way home, I started getting very irritable — withdrawl symptoms! You’re lucky to have a place like that, I think. Bob Scott

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Rich,     The fish are probably acclimated to the road noise and not bothered by it at all. I’ve fished spots much closer to the road and I’m sure I’m not the only one in the group to get spooled on the back cast (a Ford in my case).             Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water. My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

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Question:

In my minds eye, I saw incredible stress occuring on the primary thong knot, upper rear, but was relieved to see a perfectly executed bimini twist by a man who knows his knots. There is a God.

Some glorious power must deliver us from this place.

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In my minds eye, I saw incredible stress occuring on the primary thong knot, upper rear, but was relieved to see a perfectly executed bimini twist by a man who knows his knots. There is a God. Some glorious power must deliver us from this place.

Why? Mike

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I currently subscribe to a couple of different fishing mag’s but would like to know what some of the newsgroup members subscribe to and which ones are the best.

I wish I could afford Gray’s.  Seems like s gud’n…. TimW

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I currently subscribe to a couple of different fishing mag’s but would like to know what some of the newsgroup members subscribe to and which ones are the best.

I used to subscribe to a few different ones as a kid, but the only one that remains is Fly Rod & Reel. My brother very thoughtfully renews my subscription each year as a gift, kind of a tradition. If he didn’t I would have dropped FR&R by now as well. All fly fishing rags are geared to the same purpose: presenting readers with a glossy, unattainable image of the "Modern Angler" and delivering their gullible brains to advertisers who hawk mass-produced, plastic flyrods at $600 a pop. Have a nice day Spinolio

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Craig I like Grays and Fly Fishing In Saltwater Jay

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My favourite fishing mag is "Fish & Game New Zealand" P.O.Box 1746 Auckland New Zealand ph.  64-9-579-3000 fax. 64-9-579-3993 ISSN 1172-434X It costs $6.95 NZD = about $4.20 USD.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I would agree with some of what Jason says, though not all of it. A couple of the titles, Fly Rod & Reel and Fly Fisherman, do seem to me too much taken up in destination-type articles (FR&R more so). I still subscribe to Fly Fisherman though…guess I’m a magazine junkie (I work in publishing). However, I find American Angler in general to have less of the destination stuff and more of the fishing stuff. Most recent issue arrived yesterday, featuring articles on midge fishing (complete with patterns and recipes), damsel flies, nymphing techniques, buying bamboo rods, and small stream fishing. Plus, I love C. Boyd Pfeiffers tips column. I’ve now built my own bobbin rest/cradle, and am planning a rod wrapping stand and gallows-type tool based on some of his suggestions. The entymology column is also interesting. I look forward to my American Angler every month (although they spend too much time on eastern fisheries–I’m in California. I also subscribe to Western Fly Fishing and Western Fly Tying (as some one in publishing, let me take a minute to say hey Amato! get an art director with a sense of design and restraint), and Fly Tyer. In particular, I find the fly tying publications, as Jason said, full of useful info. And like I said, I’m a magazine junkie. All that having been said, much of this info is also available to you on the internet now…but you can’t take it in the john with you. Roger

Personally, I dropped American Angler, as they have become another Trout mag. There Saltwater flyfishing seems pretty good. Don’t bother with Fly Fishing In Saltwater, unless you have lots of bucks to travel. Charlie

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I currently subscribe to a couple of different fishing mag’s but would like to know what some of the newsgroup members subscribe to and which ones are the best.

   I subscribe to all the fishing mags (including foreign ones). It’s my job to be up on what’s new and even the ads get my attention. One tidbit pays for the issue (and quite frankly I do get something of value out almost all the magazines).    If I were allowed only one rag it would be IN-FISHERMAN (gasp!). It is the only magazine that consistantly has in-depth articles about fish and fisheries rather than peripheral stuff like thermometer reviews or streamside fashions.     After the fifteenth incarnation of "All you ever wanted to know about strike indicators", you really have to wonder how long the average reader has been subscribing to ANY of the flyishing magazines.    -Ralph

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With all of this magazine talk, I’ve got to wonder when a FF mag will finally come out with a February Swimsuit issue. Who would grace the cover – Lefty Kreh in thog briefs casting to bonefish??

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Lefty Kreh in thog briefs casting to bonefish??

Thank you, Sean, for putting that wonderous image into our heads. Steve

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[snip] :     After the fifteenth incarnation of "All you ever wanted to know about : strike indicators", you really have to wonder how long the average reader : has been subscribing to ANY of the flyishing magazines. Or how much there really is to know about our beloved hobby! — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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: Lefty Kreh in thog briefs casting to bonefish?? : Thank you, Sean, for putting that wonderous image into our heads. No good becomes the man who uses the words thong and Lefty in the same sentence.   (Unless it is done in a anatomical context, as in "Men wearing thongs are predisposed to hang lefty.") — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/

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I currently subscribe to a couple of different fishing mag’s but would like to know what some of the newsgroup members subscribe to and which ones are the best. Craig,    After subscribing to countless magazines ( Flyfishing, fishing, hunting, etc.) over many years I have come to the conclusion that the money is better spent on new  equipment, better tying vice, gas, or other…. Most magazines recycle , perhaps modify somewhat … but still generally write about the same stuff…  It becomes quite boring and a waste of money IMHO… Some are better than others.

Magazines in any area, be it fishing or fly tying or computers or baby rearing or what-have-you, recycle material because over time their readership changes and they have proportionally more readers who are new to the field than they do "old timers".  This can be an annoyance to the old hands who find themselves reading the same type of material over and over again, but it’s great for authors who can make a fine living recycling old material.  Hmmm…maybe it’s time to consider a career change?  :-) — Bob Jarvis Mail addresses hacked to foil automailers!

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: Lefty Kreh in thog briefs casting to bonefish?? : Thank you, Sean, for putting that wonderous image into our heads. No good becomes the man who uses the words thong and Lefty in the same sentence. (Unless it is done in a anatomical context, as in "Men wearing thongs are predisposed to hang lefty.")

Great. Just great. Now, not only do we have Lefty in a thong but we know which way he’s hanging! Bring me a bucket… I’m gonna ROFF! Spinolio

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Lefty Kreh in thog briefs casting to bonefish?? : Thank you, Sean, for putting that wonderous image into our heads. No good becomes the man who uses the words thong and Lefty in the same sentence. (Unless it is done in a anatomical context, as in "Men wearing thongs are predisposed to hang lefty.") Great. Just great. Now, not only do we have Lefty in a thong but we know which way he’s hanging! Bring me a bucket… I’m gonna ROFF!

In my minds eye, I saw incredible stress occuring on the primary thong knot, upper rear, but was relieved to see a perfectly executed bimini twist by a man who knows his knots. There is a God. TimW

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I currently subscribe to a couple of different fishing mag’s but would like to know what some of the newsgroup members subscribe to and which ones are the best. Craig T

Dear Craig; I have found most flyfishing mags. superfluous.  They are O.K. for getting vacationing FFermen to know about destinations (and, in the local’s point of view, ruining them, with some legitimacy), and some techniques, (usually casting), but that is about it. I am not independently wealthy, so I don’t go jetting around the continent to fantastic, exotic waters.  So I find it of little utility for me.   After I learned enough about locations, hatches, tying, casting and the fish in general and had knowlegeable people to talk to, the magazines were, as I said, became superfluous. The applicability was really nil. Now, fly tying mags, like "Fly Tyer" are much different. I can apply techniques seen there to flies I use right here.  Of most utility are the local sporting publications.  I fish in Pennsylvania, so knowing what’s going on here is important to me.  Also, these publications keep track of local and state legislation, special regs. areas, local pollution, stream recover and projects, recent reports on new waters for me to fish, etc.  I don’t give a flyin’ fig about that damnable DePuy’s spring creek.  So what.  It is not a critical national or for me, local issue.  There is time and effort better spent elsewhere. JB

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: for me to fish, etc.  I don’t give a flyin’ fig about that damnable : DePuy’s spring creek.  So what.  It is not a critical national or for : me, local issue.  There is time and effort better spent elsewhere. Jason, I’d like you to reconsider.  There are good trout streams and there are trout streams without trout.  Consider all these resources, resources of our natural world.  We need to work together to protect the remaining good resources and work together to reclaim the wasted resources.  If we don’t work together, they will all be gone.  It might take years and years, but they will all go away.  The first step (IMO) in working together is education and awareness.  It’s good to know what makes a resource good, and how it stacks up with local conditions with which we might be more familiar.  It’s important to know what is excellent, what is good and what is weak, because it helps us draw distinctions and priorities.  I argue it’s improtant to know other countries, because it helps imagine what it was like here 100 years ago (of course, Idaho is still like it was 100 years ago), and what it can be again. I encourage you and others to try to maintain at least a minimal interest in the rest of the world.  We are all local fisherfolk. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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I would agree with some of what Jason says, though not all of it. A couple of the titles, Fly Rod & Reel and Fly Fisherman, do seem to me too much taken up in destination-type articles (FR&R more so). I still subscribe to Fly Fisherman though…guess I’m a magazine junkie (I work in publishing). However, I find American Angler in general to have less of the destination stuff and more of the fishing stuff. Most recent issue arrived yesterday, featuring articles on midge fishing (complete with patterns and recipes), damsel flies, nymphing techniques, buying bamboo rods, and small stream fishing. Plus, I love C. Boyd Pfeiffers tips column. I’ve now built my own bobbin rest/cradle, and am planning a rod wrapping stand and gallows-type tool based on some of his suggestions. The entymology column is also interesting. I look forward to my American Angler every month (although they spend too much time on eastern fisheries–I’m in California. I also subscribe to Western Fly Fishing and Western Fly Tying (as some one in publishing, let me take a minute to say hey Amato! get an art director with a sense of design and restraint), and Fly Tyer. In particular, I find the fly tying publications, as Jason said, full of useful info. And like I said, I’m a magazine junkie. All that having been said, much of this info is also available to you on the internet now…but you can’t take it in the john with you. Roger

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Amen to all that before. Much superflous caca in these magazines. Of them, American Angler is by far the best. Fly Rod & Reel isn’t very well written but the fiction issue is well worth buying. They also ran an interesting piece an issue or two ago about how bamboo rods are built. Of course, American Angler did that too…

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Wonderful advise, Rick.  Concern for local issues is only an important starting point.

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I currently subscribe to a couple of different fishing mag’s but would like to know what some of the newsgroup members subscribe to and which ones are the best. Craig T

Craig,    After subscribing to countless magazines ( Flyfishing, fishing, hunting, etc.) over many years I have come to the conclusion that the money is better spent on new  equipment, better tying vice, gas, or other…. Most magazines recycle , perhaps modify somewhat … but still generally write about the same stuff…  It becomes quite boring and a waste of money IMHO… Some are better than others. Just some thoughts !                                                                                              Jody

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I currently subscribe to a couple of different fishing mag’s but would like to know what some of the newsgroup members subscribe to and which ones are the best. Craig T

A couple of my favs are Fly Fisherman and Flyfishing.  I also like Salmon, Trout, Steelheader. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley 2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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I currently subscribe to a couple of different fishing mag’s but would like to know what some of the newsgroup members subscribe to and which ones are the best. Craig T

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I don’t subscribe to it, but I just found a magazine called "Wild Steelhead & Salmon" that looks pretty good if you’re into those fish.   I can’t say how consistent it is because I’ve only seen this one issue, and it is a little expensive, but it’s out there if you’re curious.

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I currently subscribe to a couple of different fishing mag’s but would like to know what some of the newsgroup members subscribe to and which ones are the best. Craig THi Craig,

I subscribe to American Angler, Fly Rod & Reel, Fly Tying, Fly Tyers, Fly Fish America (the national version of the regional free magazine), and Fly Fisherman. I think American Angler is real good. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Question:

I’m planning a steelhead trip on the Eel last week in January.  Would appreciate any advice, including flies to use, etc. Thanks, David

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I’m planning a steelhead trip on the Eel last week in January.  Would appreciate any advice, including flies to use, etc. Thanks, David

Call the Eureka Fly Shop in Eureka. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Correction, give the wrong site, try the following for northern california coast rivers. http://www.northcoastweb.com/fishing/ Mike

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I’m planning a steelhead trip on the Eel last week in January.  Would appreciate any advice, including flies to use, etc. Thanks, David

Cast on over to Northern California Fly Fishing for some good info.  http://www2.ecst.csuchico.edu:80/~jschlich/Flyfish/flyfish.html Mike

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Question:

I am planning a short trip to the Bay Area in mid-march. Can anyone suggest good trout waters within a couple hours of San Francisco?

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Because the general trout season doesn’t open until May 1st, trout waters are hard to come by near San Francisco in mid-March.  However, there is one trout stream that remains open, about a one and a half hour drive. It’s called Putah Creek.  It’s a tailwater, flowing out of a man-made reservoir, called Lake Berryessa.  It’s a bit north of a town called Vacaville, east of San Francisco off Highway 80, on the way to Sacramento.  Easy to find on a map.  Make local inquiries as to how to get to the section below the dam. If you want to get into some big trout, (and I’m talking 6-8 lbs.) drive north on Highway 5 for about 3 1/2 hours.  Between the towns of Anderson and Red Bluff, on the Sacramento River, a guide can be had to float you through that water.  This is a blue ribbon fishery, and open at this time of year.  Make inquiries for guides, etc.  through the "Redding Fly Shop."  Their phone number is (916) 222-3555. Those guys really know the water in that area, and can put you into good fishing, and will arrange good guides for you. Tight Lines! Old Deep

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: I am planning a short trip to the Bay Area in mid-march. Can anyone : suggest good trout waters within a couple hours of San Francisco? Here are the Lakes that are now open: From nearest to the farthest: Lake Merced: Right in the Heart of San Francisco San Pablo Dam Reservoir: Take San Pablo Dam Road in Richmond Lake Del Valle: This is south of Livermore Parkway Lake: Private lake, open to anyone even without a license for a fee Lake Chabot Lake Berryessa: Napa County Lake Pardee Lake Camanche Lake Amador

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writes: If you want to get into some big trout, (and I’m talking 6-8 lbs.) drive north on Highway 5 for about 3 1/2 hours.  Between the towns of Anderson and Red Bluff, on the Sacramento River, a guide can be had to float you through that water.  This is a blue ribbon fishery, and open at this time of year.  Make inquiries for guides, etc.  through the "Redding Fly Shop." Their phone number is (916) 222-3555. Those guys really know the water in that area, and can put you into good fishing, and will arrange good guides for you.

Be sure to call ahead to check on flows.  You can wade the Lower Sac in the town of Redding and down to Anerson when the flows are 4000cfs or lower.  5000cfs gets a little tough to wade and above 8000cfs you can use a boat, but probably won’t find many fish.  Currently the Lower Sac flows are 35,000 cfs.  We had some warm weather which filled Shasta lake up too much from run-off so they are dumping it like crazy now. If the flows are good in March, there are usually great caddis hatches and both good nymphing and dry fly fishing.   About 2 hrs out of SF you can fish the Mokulemne River below Comanche Dam or the lower part of the Stanislaus River.  Both can be good in March. Also may be decent Striper fishing in the Delta then.                                             Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Question:

| | Has anyone fly-fished for walleyes? If so what kind of flies did you use? Yeah, and how do you get all that color-distance-coded lead core wire line *AND* all the backing into a 3 1/2 oz. English-made palm-drag reel? And when will Orvis finally put their much-rumoured Lake Erie model bamboo rod into production??? Are there any parts of Lake Huron or Saginaw Bay that can be waded safely??? The Ultimate in Fishing Sport – casting to a rising walleye. Of course, a Real FlyFisherperson would be using a DRY FLY……         Michael J. Oatley                       205/730-8738                    

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Has anyone fly-fished for walleyes? If so what kind of flies did you use? -Joon

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Has anyone fly-fished for walleyes? If so what kind of flies did you

use? Not intentionally, but I caught five last year in the space of about ten minutes, at the tail end of a pool where I was fishing for bass (with a fly!!  Gasp!).  Caught all five on a black wooly bugger, just after dark.  All five were in the 2-1/2 to 3 pound range.  Good Time! Tim

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