Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So far I’ve got a couple dozen elk hair caddis in various colors, sizes 18-14; a couple dozen pt nymphs in 18-14; another dozen pt with bead chain eyes in 14, a dozen grhe in in 16-18 and another dozen bead heads in 14; a dozen brassies in 16-18; a dozen various colored soft hackle grouse in 16; a dozen pickett pins in 8; half a dozen each of mickey finns, little rainbow trout, black nosed dace, and another nameless concoction of my own, all in bucktail size 8, a half dozen little rainbow trout in size 8 thunder creek style; and the first of what will eventually be three dozen pass lakes (a dozen of which was promised long ago to a tarheel barrister).  I also have a thousand or so miscellaneous leftovers from nearly twenty years of tying.  I’m happy to say that I threw out about two hundred of the latter in the last few days and am making significant progress toward jettisoning the rest. I have yet to tie up a supply of woolly buggers, woolly worms, scuds, all the mayflies (which I detest), especially including a bunch of sulfurs (o.k., I DID pay a little bit of attention), and a whole bunch of other stuff I can’t remember at the moment. I’m willing…nay, eager, to listen to any recommendations.  How will you be armed? Wolfgang

Not that I’m an expert on Penns Creek, but I recommend checking out Tom L’s fly list if you haven’t already.  Your nymph list sounds right on, and I bet your streamers will work too if you find the fish and get deep.  I got skunked nymphing the first few days because I didn’t understand limestone creeks (way different that what I’m used to).  I have been assured by the dedicated bottom scrapers that nymphing does work and this year I expect to try it at least once… For dries, make sure you have an assortment of march brown, gray fox and sulphurs.  I did OK with showshoe hare wings and comparadums last year.  The sulphurs on Penns come in at least three colors, about size 16, from pale yellow (almost cream) to bright orange.  The fish weren’t too picky about exact color.  I’ll also have a bunch of sulphur, tan and rusty spinners. The march browns are big – size 12.  I lost the link to Tom’s page, but I copied his fly pictures at: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~sgula/penns/index.html Hope that helps. –Stan

Response:

Still trying to get my schedule changed so I can work Friday night and have Saturday off. If nothing else maybe I could get up there and fish for a few hour’s late Saturday. Anybody fishing on Sunday?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taking inventory after our early March adventure, Joel and I have both discovered that we have some toes left which weren’t frozen off up on the Prairie, so we plan to go up again and finish the job on the weekend of April 6-7.  A couple of other people have already expressed interest.  The plan is simply to meet at Champs in Merrill for breakfast on Saturday morning and then head out to the stream.  Unless we hear otherwise, let’s plan to meet at 7:30 or so and take it from there.  Information about accommodations, directions, etc. is available by looking through the archives for threads about the "Prairie" about a month ago, or I can email particulars for anyone who needs the information. Come one, come all. Wolfgang

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not that I’m an expert on Penns Creek, but I recommend checking out Tom L’s fly list if you haven’t already.  Your nymph list sounds right on, and I bet your streamers will work too if you find the fish and get deep.  I got skunked nymphing the first few days because I didn’t understand limestone creeks (way different that what I’m used to).  I have been assured by the dedicated bottom scrapers that nymphing does work and this year I expect to try it at least once… For dries, make sure you have an assortment of march brown, gray fox and sulphurs.  I did OK with showshoe hare wings and comparadums last year. The sulphurs on Penns come in at least three colors, about size 16, from pale yellow (almost cream) to bright orange.  The fish weren’t too picky about exact color.  I’ll also have a bunch of sulphur, tan and rusty spinners. The march browns are big – size 12.  I lost the link to Tom’s page, but I copied his fly pictures at: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~sgula/penns/index.html Hope that helps.

Thanks, Stan.  With about 45 days to go I do believe I’ll be able to tie up everything I’ll need.   Um…….in case I don’t though, just how many is in a "bunch" of sulphur, tan and rusty spinners?       Wolfgang willing to trade

Response:

re: Penns flies Thanks, Stan.  With about 45 days to go I do believe I’ll be able to tie up everything I’ll need.   Um…….in case I don’t though, just how many is in a "bunch" of sulphur, tan and rusty spinners?       Wolfgang willing to trade

I only tie 6 of anything.  And then I bring enough material to make more as needed.  My traveling buddy Jim has maybe the best stocked flyboxes in the universe (‘infinitely’ more flies than anybody needs – and I’m sure Frank and Scooter will back me up on that) and I’m adept at borrowing<g. I’m a real minimalist – I use PT nymphs (unbeaded), variations on soft hackles, EHC, Usuals and comparaduns in a variety of colors, and polypro spinners.  Plus several hundred hooks, too many spools of thread, and feathers and furs from a multitude of creatures.  Viiox for my knees, tequila for what’s left of my brain cells, and I’m all set. FWIW – I never saw a spinner fall last year and didn’t use a single spinner, but Tom and Mike Makela insisted there would be a march brown spinner fall…  We saw them hovering, but they never fell. –Stan

Response:

Still trying to get my schedule changed so I can work Friday night and have Saturday off. If nothing else maybe I could get up there and fish for a few hour’s late Saturday. Anybody fishing on Sunday?

Joel informs me that he is, and I plan to as well. Wolfgang

Response:

re: Penns flies I only tie 6 of anything.  And then I bring enough material to make more as needed.  My traveling buddy Jim has maybe the best stocked flyboxes in the universe (‘infinitely’ more flies than anybody needs – and I’m sure Frank and Scooter will back me up on that) and I’m adept at borrowing<g.

Well, I’m not opposes to proxy borrowing, if it comes to that. I’m a real minimalist – I use PT nymphs (unbeaded), variations on soft hackles, EHC, Usuals and comparaduns in a variety of colors, and polypro spinners.  Plus several hundred hooks, too many spools of thread, and feathers and furs from a multitude of creatures.  Viiox for my knees, tequila for what’s left of my brain cells, and I’m all set.

One of the most interesting things about fly fishing, to my mind, is the fact that those of us who tie generally spend untold hours and dollars to tie ever more patterns and then go out and fish with the same half dozen or so as always.  I will almost certainly use ehc, pt and grhe nymphs, and pass FWIW – I never saw a spinner fall last year and didn’t use a single spinner, but Tom and Mike Makela insisted there would be a march brown spinner fall…  We saw them hovering, but they never fell.

Need to bring a shotgun…..with VERY small shot!        :) Wolfgang

Response:

 I will almost certainly use ehc, pt and grhe nymphs, and pass

and those’ll do just fine…of course, til they don’t, because that waldo-like bastard next to you is catching them on a red squirrel’s butt with a chenile wipe, and you’ve tried every motherfukkin fly in your box, but that waldocackle won’t quit and even carp are eatin what he’s got, and… and…well, tie em all… everything you know…tie it… and bring some extra for your friends…with some spare boots…studded only… jeff

Response:

 I will almost certainly use ehc, pt and grhe nymphs, and pass and those’ll do just fine…of course, til they don’t, because that waldo-like bastard next to you is catching them on a red squirrel’s butt with a chenile wipe, and you’ve tried every motherfukkin fly in your box, but that waldocackle won’t quit and even carp are eatin what he’s got, and… and…well, tie em all… everything you know…tie it… and bring some extra for your friends…with some spare boots…studded only…

Yes, we are familiar with the evilwaldobastard and are taking measures to deal with it.  We intend to get it very drunk on cheap cheesehead beer and steal all of it’s things. Sorry, but the stud will be wearing the boots, not vice versa. Wolfgang

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I will almost certainly use ehc, pt and grhe nymphs, and pass and those’ll do just fine…of course, til they don’t, because that waldo-like bastard next to you is catching them on a red squirrel’s butt with a chenile wipe, and you’ve tried every motherfukkin fly in your box, but that waldocackle won’t quit and even carp are eatin what he’s got, and… and…well, tie em all… everything you know…tie it… and bring some extra for your friends…with some spare boots…studded only… Yes, we are familiar with the evilwaldobastard and are taking measures to deal with it.  We intend to get it very drunk on cheap cheesehead beer and steal all of it’s things. Sorry, but the stud will be wearing the boots, not vice versa. Wolfgang

so what footwear you gonna wear? evilwaldobastard…. catchy <g

Response:

Whoever tied the flies on the blue thingie site below is an excellent fly tier.   Well done! George Gehrke "who will kill for some snowshoe hare) just a little piece? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For dries, make sure you have an assortment of march brown, gray fox and sulphurs.  I did OK with showshoe hare wings and comparadums last year. The sulphurs on Penns come in at least three colors, about size 16, from pale yellow (almost cream) to bright orange.  The fish weren’t too picky about exact color.  I’ll also have a bunch of sulphur, tan and rusty spinners. The march browns are big – size 12.  I lost the link to Tom’s page, but I copied his fly pictures at: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~sgula/penns/index.html Hope that helps. –Stan

Response:

Whoever tied the flies on the blue thingie site below is an excellent fly tier.   Well done! George Gehrke The march browns are big – size 12.  I lost the link to Tom’s page, but I copied his fly pictures at: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~sgula/penns/index.html

For the record, these are all by Tom Littleton.

Response:

Whoever tied the flies on the blue thingie site below is an excellent fly tier.   Well done! George Gehrke The march browns are big – size 12.  I lost the link to Tom’s page, but I copied his fly pictures at: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~sgula/penns/index.html For the record, these are all by Tom Littleton.

Thanks, Stan.  I am especially appreciative of the fact his fly tying signature is to not over dress.  It’s hard to hold back when dubbing.  I also am keen on the hackle job Tom does.  Not many know how to do it as well.  Well done Tom and Again, thanks, Stan – George

Response:

Taking inventory after our early March adventure, Joel and I have both discovered that we have some toes left which weren’t frozen off up on the Prairie, so we plan to go up again and finish the job on the weekend of April 6-7.  A couple of other people have already expressed interest.  The plan is simply to meet at Champs in Merrill for breakfast on Saturday morning and then head out to the stream.  Unless we hear otherwise, let’s plan to meet at 7:30 or so and take it from there.  Information about accommodations, directions, etc. is available by looking through the archives for threads about the "Prairie" about a month ago, or I can email particulars for anyone who needs the information. Come one, come all. Wolfgang

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Taking inventory after our early March adventure, Joel and I have both discovered that we have some toes left which weren’t frozen off up on the Prairie, so we plan to go up again and finish the job on the weekend of April 6-7.  A couple of other people have already expressed interest.  The plan is simply to meet at Champs in Merrill for breakfast on Saturday morning and then head out to the stream.  Unless we hear otherwise, let’s plan to meet at 7:30 or so and take it from there.  Information about accommodations, directions, etc. is available by looking through the archives for threads about the "Prairie" about a month ago, or I can email particulars for anyone who needs the information. Come one, come all. Wolfgang

The pack ice is out and all the polar bears have wandered north following the caribou. They should be crossing the U.P. border by the 6th, so there should be no concern about large predators. Stoneflies (the little ones) will probably be on the trouts menu. Just a note: tthe Prairie is only open for the early season from Hwy J downstream. Still about 10 miles of good trout water. G.Cleveland

Response:

The pack ice is out and all the polar bears have wandered north following the caribou. They should be crossing the U.P. border by the 6th, so there should be no concern about large predators. Stoneflies (the little ones) will probably be on the trouts menu. Just a note: tthe Prairie is only open for the early season from Hwy J downstream. Still about 10 miles of good trout water.

You got any favorite patterns for the little stones? Wolfgang who has got a great start on penn’s flies and can now spare a bit of time for other matters.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The pack ice is out and all the polar bears have wandered north following the caribou. They should be crossing the U.P. border by the 6th, so there should be no concern about large predators. Stoneflies (the little ones) will probably be on the trouts menu. Just a note: tthe Prairie is only open for the early season from Hwy J downstream. Still about 10 miles of good trout water. You got any favorite patterns for the little stones? Wolfgang who has got a great start on penn’s flies and can now spare a bit of time for other matters.

Nothing special. I’m a generic fly kind of guy. A Dark Hares Ear Nymph in  a size 16 hook works for me. Muskrat nymphs also are good, as are Zug Bugs. If the air temps get up in the 50s having a few #22 BWOs would probably be a good idea. See y’all at Champs. G.Cleveland

Response:

Wolfgang who has got a great start on penn’s flies and can now spare a bit of time for other matters.

What are you tying? Willi

Response:

You got any favorite patterns for the little stones? Wolfgang who has got a great start on penn’s flies and can now spare a bit of time for other matters. Nothing special. I’m a generic fly kind of guy. A Dark Hares Ear Nymph in  a size 16 hook works for me. Muskrat nymphs also are good, as are Zug Bugs. If the air temps get up in the 50s having a few #22 BWOs would probably be a good idea. See y’all at Champs.

Excellent.  Thanks George.  Breakfast is on me. Wolfgang

Response:

Wolfgang who has got a great start on penn’s flies and can now spare a bit of time for other matters. What are you tying?

Well, I’ll begin by confessing that I haven’t paid a whole lot of attention to what others have been saying I SHOULD be tying…more adventurous that way, don’tcha know.   So far I’ve got a couple dozen elk hair caddis in various colors, sizes 18-14; a couple dozen pt nymphs in 18-14; another dozen pt with bead chain eyes in 14, a dozen grhe in in 16-18 and another dozen bead heads in 14; a dozen brassies in 16-18; a dozen various colored soft hackle grouse in 16; a dozen pickett pins in 8; half a dozen each of mickey finns, little rainbow trout, black nosed dace, and another nameless concoction of my own, all in bucktail size 8, a half dozen little rainbow trout in size 8 thunder creek style; and the first of what will eventually be three dozen pass lakes (a dozen of which was promised long ago to a tarheel barrister).  I also have a thousand or so miscellaneous leftovers from nearly twenty years of tying.  I’m happy to say that I threw out about two hundred of the latter in the last few days and am making significant progress toward jettisoning the rest. I have yet to tie up a supply of woolly buggers, woolly worms, scuds, all the mayflies (which I detest), especially including a bunch of sulfurs (o.k., I DID pay a little bit of attention), and a whole bunch of other stuff I can’t remember at the moment. I’m willing…nay, eager, to listen to any recommendations.  How will you be armed? Wolfgang

Response:

Question:

Hi. Just wondering if anyone out there has fished the tailwaters of the Smith Lake Dam in Cullman, Alabama in the last few days. I’m new to flyfishing and was wondering what the trout are feeding on these hot days of summer. If anyone has fished this water lately, please email me and give me an idea of what and how to fish there. I’ve asked the locals, but they are very closed mouth about it. If anyone has any suggestions on what to try, I’d appreciate that also. Thanks, Richard Hollingsworth

Response:

… If anyone has any suggestions on what to try, I’d appreciate that also.

Have never fished below Smith Lake Dam but every tailwater fishery I’ve ever heard of has a population of sow bugs. You might want to try sculpins too. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Question:

Hi Pierre: The pattern I like to use is one of my own. It is called a Mountain Midge, and the recipe is found at http://www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html/fom11.htm It really is an excellent fly. Vic Bergman has demonstrated it at a few tying demonstrations, and it works very well when fished subsurface about 18 or 24" below a yarn indicator or dry fly indicator. Other midge pattens I use are the Griffith’s Gnat for dries.  I also use a pupal emerger pattern that sits in the water film (but I forget its name) and I also like the Palomino Midge. We recently posted another midge pattern called the Johnson Midge that I have had tremndouse success with. It can be seen at http://www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html/fom44.htm I used to have a really hard time fishing with tiny midges. I learned how to tie on a very light yarn indicator to the tippet using a couple of loops in the tippet, and this has helped a lot. The yarn, and it doesn’t take a lot, really helps detect strikes, and it lands and sits on the water without disturbing the fish. By the way, the URLs I am posting are from our web site on fly fishing southwestern Alberta. We have a number of fly patterns posted for our area. Also, feel free to drop me an email next time you come to the Crow. I live in Lethbridge, and could meet you out there. I prefer to fish during the middle of the week this time of year, as there are generally fewer people. There isn’t a lot of open water in the area, and it can get crowded on weekends. Tim Lysyk

Hi Tim.     I dont know if I am broaching etiquette here..but as a newbie flytyer and ff’er could you pass on the type of midge that you tied?? I have seen some on the Bow here in Calgary but for the life of me only the Griffiths Gnat

comes

Response:

Sorry Pierre, a few days after that post, I did some major rework of our page. Try going to http://www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html/flyfile.htm The Mountain Midge is listed in the link for September 1996-August 1997. The Johnson Midge is listed in the link for September 1999-August 2000.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the info Tim will do that however my server cannot access what you sent me. I have heard of the Palomino midge and have had some success with it. I will try again. Thanks and will let ya know if I am ever in the neighborhood Pierre Hi Pierre: The pattern I like to use is one of my own. It is called a Mountain Midge, and the recipe is found at http://www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html/fom11.htm It really is an excellent fly. Vic Bergman has demonstrated it at a few tying demonstrations, and it works very well when fished subsurface about 18 or 24" below a yarn indicator or dry fly indicator. Other midge pattens I use are the Griffith’s Gnat for dries.  I also use a pupal emerger pattern that sits in the water film (but I forget its name) and I also like the Palomino Midge. We recently posted another midge pattern called the Johnson Midge that I have had tremndouse success with. It can be seen at http://www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html/fom44.htm I used to have a really hard time fishing with tiny midges. I learned how to tie on a very light yarn indicator to the tippet using a couple of loops in the tippet, and this has helped a lot. The yarn, and it doesn’t take a lot, really helps detect strikes, and it lands and sits on the water without disturbing the fish. By the way, the URLs I am posting are from our web site on fly fishing southwestern Alberta. We have a number of fly patterns posted for our area. Also, feel free to drop me an email next time you come to the Crow. I live in Lethbridge, and could meet you out there. I prefer to fish during the middle of the week this time of year, as there are generally fewer people. There isn’t a lot of open water in the area, and it can get crowded on weekends. Tim Lysyk Hi Tim.     I dont know if I am broaching etiquette here..but as a newbie flytyer and ff’er could you pass on the type of midge that you tied?? I have seen some on the Bow here in Calgary but for the life of me only the Griffiths Gnat comes

Response:

Thanks for the info Tim will do that however my server cannot access what you sent me. I have heard of the Palomino midge and have had some success with it. I will try again. Thanks and will let ya know if I am ever in the neighborhood Pierre – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Pierre: The pattern I like to use is one of my own. It is called a Mountain Midge, and the recipe is found at http://www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html/fom11.htm It really is an excellent fly. Vic Bergman has demonstrated it at a few tying demonstrations, and it works very well when fished subsurface about 18 or 24" below a yarn indicator or dry fly indicator. Other midge pattens I use are the Griffith’s Gnat for dries.  I also use a pupal emerger pattern that sits in the water film (but I forget its name) and I also like the Palomino Midge. We recently posted another midge pattern called the Johnson Midge that I have had tremndouse success with. It can be seen at http://www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html/fom44.htm I used to have a really hard time fishing with tiny midges. I learned how to tie on a very light yarn indicator to the tippet using a couple of loops in the tippet, and this has helped a lot. The yarn, and it doesn’t take a lot, really helps detect strikes, and it lands and sits on the water without disturbing the fish. By the way, the URLs I am posting are from our web site on fly fishing southwestern Alberta. We have a number of fly patterns posted for our area. Also, feel free to drop me an email next time you come to the Crow. I live in Lethbridge, and could meet you out there. I prefer to fish during the middle of the week this time of year, as there are generally fewer people. There isn’t a lot of open water in the area, and it can get crowded on weekends. Tim Lysyk Hi Tim.     I dont know if I am broaching etiquette here..but as a newbie flytyer and ff’er could you pass on the type of midge that you tied?? I have seen some on the Bow here in Calgary but for the life of me only the Griffiths Gnat comes

Response:

I’ve hard a hard time getting out lately. I’ve either been too busy at work, or the weather has been crappy. Also, I teach a University course on Tuesdays and Thursdays, so I can’t go either of those days. This past week the weather had been pretty good, so I was planning to go Wednesday, but snow came. So we changed the trip to Friday. Snow came Thursday night. We had pretty much had it by then, and said the hell with it, let’s go anyway. Friday turned out to be a pretty nice after all. We made the drive out out early. The Crowsnest is the one of two rivers opent this time of the year in my area. It is one of my favorite streams, so that is where we went. Stopped in at the local fly shop for coffee, some BS, and, oh yeah…had to buy new licences. We finally made it out to the water, and it seemed to be getting a little busy. One guy as upstream ahead of us. We start to fish at a pool to let him move upstream. Upstream guy’s buddy comes out of the woods behind us, and crashes through the bush ahead of us to join his pal. A little later, two other guys and theri dogs show up right behind us. Upstream guy and his buddy keep coming back downstream, then upstream.  This is getting on my nerves, and no one is catching anything, so we move farther upstream to some secluded pools I know. On the way there, we pass another couple of guys working their way downstream. They haven’t caught anything, so we keep going upstream to the pools I like. We fish there for a few minutes, when the the guys who were moving downstream come moving back upstream again. Fortunately, they keep going right past us, and they are the last people we see for the rest of the day. I fish a few pools and move upstream, and start to notice some midges in the air, so I move back downstream to where my fishing buddy is. He has seen some trout rises. I see a few too…but they are the ‘tail fin in the air" rises. You know these rises, they are the fish equivalent of giving you the finger because the fish are really hard to catch when they are doing this. However, I know the secret. It is called a Mountain Midge (my own pattern) tied about 18 – 24 below a yarn indicator. I let one drift downstream into the pool, and bingo…rainbow on. Nice fish. About 16", olive, with nice red sides. I catch a couple more, then I decide to get out of my friend’s way. I move upstream to a riffle and hook and land fish regularly. We take turns fishing the main pool and the riffle, and do pretty well. My friend hasn’t been fishing a lot the past number of years, and he keeps hooking fish, but can’t seem to land them. Fortunately, he doesn’t seem to really care. The weather actually had turned out pretty good, high of about 15 C, but quite windy. I have sunburned my lower arms, from below my elbow down. The sunburn stops where my sleeve was rolled up. I kind of look like a Canadian flag,  two red borders with a white middle. Anyway, we fish until about 4:30 then decide to call it a day. Most of the downstream traffic is long gone. Howver, the guys with dogs are there, and the dogs run up to greet us on the road. Friendly animals, but one of them was the ugliest thing I ever saw. We go back to the shop so my friend can pick up some materials to tie the midge patterns. The drive home was uneventful, but pleasant. All in all, a nice day. I may have to go again in the middle of next week. My classes are over this Tuesday, so this frees up my schedule somewhat. Tim Lysyk

Response:

Hi Tim.     I dont know if I am broaching etiquette here..but as a newbie flytyer and ff’er could you pass on the type of midge that you tied?? I have seen some on the Bow here in Calgary but for the life of me only the Griffiths Gnat comes close and I am afraid that I dont have the technique yet. I would appreciate any help you can give me. By the way I caught a nice 16 inch on a little brown last weekend on the Crow as well.. you are so right when you say it is nice there.. I want to try and explore the river near kanaskis as well this summer Pierre – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve hard a hard time getting out lately. I’ve either been too busy at work, or the weather has been crappy. Also, I teach a University course on Tuesdays and Thursdays, so I can’t go either of those days. This past week the weather had been pretty good, so I was planning to go Wednesday, but snow came. So we changed the trip to Friday. Snow came Thursday night. We had pretty much had it by then, and said the hell with it, let’s go anyway. Friday turned out to be a pretty nice after all. We made the drive out out early. The Crowsnest is the one of two rivers opent this time of the year in my area. It is one of my favorite streams, so that is where we went. Stopped in at the local fly shop for coffee, some BS, and, oh yeah…had to buy new licences. We finally made it out to the water, and it seemed to be getting a little busy. One guy as upstream ahead of us. We start to fish at a pool to let him move upstream. Upstream guy’s buddy comes out of the woods behind us, and crashes through the bush ahead of us to join his pal. A little later, two other guys and theri dogs show up right behind us. Upstream guy and his buddy keep coming back downstream, then upstream.  This is getting on my nerves, and no one is catching anything, so we move farther upstream to some secluded pools I know. On the way there, we pass another couple of guys working their way downstream. They haven’t caught anything, so we keep going upstream to the pools I like. We fish there for a few minutes, when the the guys who were moving downstream come moving back upstream again. Fortunately, they keep going right past us, and they are the last people we see for the rest of the day. I fish a few pools and move upstream, and start to notice some midges in the air, so I move back downstream to where my fishing buddy is. He has seen some trout rises. I see a few too…but they are the ‘tail fin in the air" rises. You know these rises, they are the fish equivalent of giving you the finger because the fish are really hard to catch when they are doing this. However, I know the secret. It is called a Mountain Midge (my own pattern) tied about 18 – 24 below a yarn indicator. I let one drift downstream into the pool, and bingo…rainbow on. Nice fish. About 16", olive, with nice red sides. I catch a couple more, then I decide to get out of my friend’s way. I move upstream to a riffle and hook and land fish regularly. We take turns fishing the main pool and the riffle, and do pretty well. My friend hasn’t been fishing a lot the past number of years, and he keeps hooking fish, but can’t seem to land them. Fortunately, he doesn’t seem to really care. The weather actually had turned out pretty good, high of about 15 C, but quite windy. I have sunburned my lower arms, from below my elbow down. The sunburn stops where my sleeve was rolled up. I kind of look like a Canadian flag,  two red borders with a white middle. Anyway, we fish until about 4:30 then decide to call it a day. Most of the downstream traffic is long gone. Howver, the guys with dogs are there, and the dogs run up to greet us on the road. Friendly animals, but one of them was the ugliest thing I ever saw. We go back to the shop so my friend can pick up some materials to tie the midge patterns. The drive home was uneventful, but pleasant. All in all, a nice day. I may have to go again in the middle of next week. My classes are over this Tuesday, so this frees up my schedule somewhat. Tim Lysyk

Response:

Question:

I have recently started fly fishing for striped bass and would like to pick up a floating line to match my 9 wt diamondback rod. I lready own an intermediate sinking line.  My question is wether to get a 9 wt or 10 wt. and also any recomendations on different lines would be great.  I have been looking at Cortland 444 big game; I have been told it is good for turning over "big flies". Any suggestions. Also I have a pair of orvis clearwater breathable waders.  And special cleaning considerations after using in salt water? Thanks, –Gerard Department of Mathematics and Statistics 16 Colchester Avenue                     phone:  (802) 656 – 3372 University of Vermont                            (802) 656 – 2940 Burlington, VT 05405-1455                  FAX:  (802) 656 – 2552

Response:

I have recently started fly fishing for striped bass and would like to pick up a floating line to match my 9 wt diamondback rod. I lready own an intermediate sinking line.  My question is wether to get a 9 wt or 10 wt. and also any recomendations on different lines would be great.  I have been looking at Cortland 444 big game; I have been told it is good for turning over "big flies". Any suggestions.

#10 shooting head.  The rod is a little much for bass, I think.  You should get a BASTARD BAMBOO for a 7 Wt which you can load with a #8 shooting head. Just kidding about the rod having to be a GG BASTARD BAMBOO.  Any old brand will do but do consider a step down in casting power for bass.  You don’t need a light Tarpon Rod to catch bass with. George Gehrke All Writings

Question:

Well, you don’t really seem to get my point, Shawnie. THIS IS ALT.SUPPORT.DEPRESSION.MANIC!!! Your war against darkman, who I see as a very compassionate, caring, knowledgeable individual DOES NOT FIT IN HERE! (and yes, I know it is rude to shout. But so are you bringing this here.)

| | |Another thing: have you considered that this is not appropriate for this |group? Instead of posting repeatedly here, why don’t you create a different |feedbackpage where the posts are read before put on the board? | |You don’t know how my cgi guestbook works. I don’t really care how your CGI guestbook works. I suggested you got a different kind of guestbook. | | Not much of a |change…and if you use email to get the mail, it is also easier to track |a..holes such as this through their NNTP-posting host/IP number. | | |not when they use an anonymizer service. No matter. You can still moderate your guestbook and remove obscene messages. I am sure you don’t have such a traffic-volume that this would be a problem. Obscene, anonymized mails could be dealth with – they are always marked with the anon-service abuse-address. I hope you take this fight to another place. It is common netiquette to post ontopic. Haakon

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know what darkman has done and does do for me and you will NEVER convince me that he is the sicko doing this to you. So just deal with it privately and leave the rest of us the HELL alone. I am sick of your posts! — Kimber "Recognize your emotional style and make it work for you."

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darkman frm hell – @38.30.246 / http:// Kill all the runts! let them all die!  Shawnie is a whore and a slut! She fucked her  counsellour then tried to kill him. Signed on: Thu Nov 19 20:59:37 EST 1998 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you considered that this might _not_ be Darkman? He must be a total idiot to leave his nick at a page like this, where you can write anything you wish. And Darkman has come across as many things to me – but not an idiot. Another thing: have you considered that this is not appropriate for this group? Instead of posting repeatedly here, why don’t you create a different feedbackpage where the posts are read before put on the board? Not much of a change…and if you use email to get the mail, it is also easier to track a..holes such as this through their NNTP-posting host/IP number. Namaste, Haakon | | | Click here to see what the loser is up to now |http://adventureangling.com/guestdir/chdguest.htm | | | | | | |Take Care |congenital heart defects webring: | http://adventureangling.com/chd/webring.htm |Adventure Angling |http://adventureangling.com |y2k,chd,BP,MD and fishing book stores: |http://adventureangling.com/books/index.htm

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Have you considered that this might _not_ be Darkman? He must be a total idiot to leave his nick at a page like this, where you can write anything you wish. And Darkman has come across as many things to me – but not an idiot. Another thing: have you considered that this is not appropriate for this group? Instead of posting repeatedly here, why don’t you create a different feedbackpage where the posts are read before put on the board? Not much of a change…and if you use email to get the mail, it is also easier to track a..holes such as this through their NNTP-posting host/IP number. Namaste, Haakon

| | | Click here to see what the loser is up to now |http://adventureangling.com/guestdir/chdguest.htm | | | | | | |Take Care |congenital heart defects webring: | http://adventureangling.com/chd/webring.htm |Adventure Angling |http://adventureangling.com |y2k,chd,BP,MD and fishing book stores: |http://adventureangling.com/books/index.htm

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What is your problem with darkman? Why do you think everyone who calls themselves Darkman are the same person? I am having SERIOUS problems right now and darkman is helping me more than anyone else around. He is hunting up info for me, he is encouraging me (not that a lot of you aren’t helping also). But make sure of your facts before attacking someone who is doing so much good. — Kimber "Recognize your emotional style and make it work for you."

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It is against the law to publicly post private e-mail and it certainly does not belong in this forum.  You are doing the same type of thing that darkman is doing to me. He is taking posts of mine on this NG that I Posted just days after getting out of the hospital and posting them to my guestbooks.  He also e-mails them to me as a form of harassment.  Yes I know it is him his e-mail program used the same reply to e-mail address that he uses here in the NG’s.  Take another look at the obscene messages he posted in my guest book that imply my daughter should be killed http://adventureangling.com/guestdir/chdguest.htm and try to have some compassion. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –             Re: Dark man is at it again         To:  References:             1 , 2 , 3 I don’t care what the hell you think The above email was received by me from editor and is in its unedited version. Catherine I agree with Tunesmith.  Darkman seems not the type to post such trash on editor’s page.  I also think ASDM is NOT the appropriate place to post such accusations about someone. Editor, take the time to track down this person through their IP number and learn who the real poster is to your page. Peace, Catherine Have you considered that this might _not_ be Darkman? He must be a total idiot to leave his nick at a page like this, where you can write anything you wish. And Darkman has come across as many things to me – but not an idiot. Another thing: have you considered that this is not appropriate for this group? Instead of posting repeatedly here, why don’t you create a different feedbackpage where the posts are read before put on the board? Not much of a change…and if you use email to get the mail, it is also easier to track a..holes such as this through their NNTP-posting host/IP number. Namaste, Haakon | | | Click here to see what the loser is up to now |http://adventureangling.com/guestdir/chdguest.htm | | | | | | |Take Care |congenital heart defects webring: | http://adventureangling.com/chd/webring.htm |Adventure Angling |http://adventureangling.com |y2k,chd,BP,MD and fishing book stores: |http://adventureangling.com/books/index.htm Paint the sky with stars So our spirits have to fly. Paint the sky with stars So our spirits have to fly.

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Question:

Last night I caught a catfish on a plastic crawdad!  It was one of those Berkeley micros and the catfish was about a foot long.  It sure caught me by surprise when I saw what I had caught.  This isn’t the first time I caught a catfish on artificial baits, either.  Has anyone else had this happen very often? Eric Johnson

Caught a catfish on a deep diving plug while trolling.

Response:

Last night I caught a catfish on a plastic crawdad!  It was one of those Berkeley micros and the catfish was about a foot long.  It sure caught me by surprise when I saw what I had caught.  This isn’t the first time I caught a catfish on artificial baits, either.  Has anyone else had this happen very often? Eric Johnson Caught a catfish on a deep diving plug while trolling.

 I’ve had a number of customers write me about catching catfish on my M-Baits, seems they aren’t as ‘finicky’ as their feline counterparts!!        **** Mike Muncy’s ****                     "M-Baits" Handcrafted Cedar Crankbaits        http://www.fishingworld.com/M-Baits/    http://www.open.org/gary/fishinhole.htm

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Once anglers understand the concept that catfish are opportunistic predators, they will begin to understand better how to fish for them and the underestimated sport they represent.

Response:

Last night I caught a catfish on a plastic crawdad!  It was one of those Berkeley micros and the catfish was about a foot long.  It sure caught me by surprise when I saw what I had caught.  This isn’t the first time I caught a catfish on artificial baits, either.  Has anyone else had this happen very often? Eric Johnson Caught a catfish on a deep diving plug while trolling.

Eric…         I have caught a catfish on a rubber worm(14-15" in length),  and have seen them caught on a jig and pig (7lb channel cat) and a tail spinner (12-13" in length) — http://www.iquest.net/~kidd "Trust men, and they will be true to you; treat them greatly, and they will show themselves great."   Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-82)

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Eric Johnson) writes: This isn’t the first time I caught a catfish on artificial baits, either.  Has anyone else had this happen very often?

I fish a tailwater on the Ohio River for sauger, smallmouth, etc. using 1/4-1/2 ounce ball head jigs and curly-tail plastic jigs in the 2-3" size. Several times a year I’ll catch catfish on the jigs in this very swift water. The cats are almost always flatheads, which  seem to prefer live bait (or an imitation, like my jigs). I also catch lots of carp, and they are caught in the mouth, not snagged or foul hooked. Years ago, I remember fishing for bluegill with flyrods and poppers when my fishing buddy caught a small channel cat on his popper. Not all that uncommon.

Response:

Last night I caught a catfish on a plastic crawdad!  It was one of those Berkeley micros and the catfish was about a foot long.  It sure caught me by surprise when I saw what I had caught.  This isn’t the first time I caught a catfish on artificial baits, either.  Has anyone else had this happen very often?

Eric, Last year I caught two catfish in the 3 to 4 lb. range on Kastmasters while fishing for bass.  As you said it sure is a suprise, but a pleasant one, because, they were alfully good eating. Sue

Response:

Last night I caught a catfish on a plastic crawdad!  It was one of those Berkeley micros and the catfish was about a foot long.  It sure caught me by surprise when I saw what I had caught.  This isn’t the first time I caught a catfish on artificial baits, either.  Has anyone else had this happen very often?

While trolling sparkletails in the Wolf River at Winneconne we often catch catfish (flatheads) from 5 to 18 lbs.  Occasionally, huge fish broke our lines. We assumed these, too, must be catfish. — Bob Mittelstadt Fox Lake, Wisconsin

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A couple of close friends and myself are planning a trip to the area near (50 miles or so) Lake Temagami this fall for some camping and Walleye/pike fishing. I am interested in any information on camping recommendations and locations in the Temagami area.  We are, as always, rather strapped for cash and looking for some fairly remote place where we can drive to and set up our tent for a week of fishing.  We are quiet, conscientious, and pack out everything we brought in.   I would also be interested in a reasonably priced cabin that would hold up to possibly six fishermen and is close to good fishing… Emile "Give a man a fish, and he’ll feed his family for a day. Teach him to fish, and he’s gone the whole damn weekend!"                                 — My Wife!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A couple of close friends and myself are planning a trip to the area near (50 miles or so) Lake Temagami this fall for some camping and Walleye/pike fishing. I am interested in any information on camping recommendations and locations in the Temagami area.  We are, as always, rather strapped for cash and looking for some fairly remote place where we can drive to and set up our tent for a week of fishing.  We are quiet, conscientious, and pack out everything we brought in.   I would also be interested in a reasonably priced cabin that would hold up to possibly six fishermen and is close to good fishing… Emile "Give a man a fish, and he’ll feed his family for a day. Teach him to fish, and he’s gone the whole damn weekend!"                                — My Wife!

Try the Montreal River.. anywhere; but why not go a few miles further and fish the Shining Tree Area which is not hit so hard in the summer. Or try Longpoint Lodge on Longoint Lk just outside Elk Lake(reasonable rates and good fishing), Or Bullocks Camp at Gowganda. ( Great Walleye and NP Lk). Any of those is better than anything around Temagami IMHO. Temagami area lakes just get pounded heavier each year.

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 Last night I caught a catfish on a plastic crawdad!  It was  one of those Berkeley micros and the catfish was about a foot  long.  It sure caught me by surprise when I saw what I had  caught.  This isn’t the first time I caught a catfish on  artificial baits, either.  Has anyone else had this happen  very often? If I remember correctly, the Illinois state record channel cat was caught by a bass angler using a plastic worm. I myself have caught a channel cat on a fly rod while using a popper for small bass/bluegill. Jay —      Many men go fishing all their lives without knowing that      it is not fish they are after.                                           Henry David Thoreau

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: Last night I caught a catfish on a plastic crawdad!  It was : one of those Berkeley micros and the catfish was about a foot : long.  It sure caught me by surprise when I saw what I had : caught.  This isn’t the first time I caught a catfish on : artificial baits, either.  Has anyone else had this happen : very often? : Eric Johnson A guy I knew once caught a big catfish at night on a Hula Popper.

My boy caught two channel cats from a lake and a flathead from a river using a spinnerbait.  He was fishing for Bass.

Response:

: Last night I caught a catfish on a plastic crawdad!  It was : one of those Berkeley micros and the catfish was about a foot : long.  It sure caught me by surprise when I saw what I had : caught.  This isn’t the first time I caught a catfish on : artificial baits, either.  Has anyone else had this happen : very often? : Eric Johnson

A guy I knew once caught a big catfish at night on a Hula Popper.

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essex.heartland.net writes Last night I caught a catfish on a plastic crawdad!  It was one of those Berkeley micros and the catfish was about a foot long.  It sure caught me by surprise when I saw what I had caught.  This isn’t the first time I caught a catfish on artificial baits, either.  Has anyone else had this happen very often? Eric Johnson

Having fished for MANY years, I thought I has seen everything… Pike on a crappie jig, Musky on a doughball (see the Md. State record!) and a huge channel cat on bass popper. Until the day my brother took me out to his favorite spot on Lake Arthur in Pa.  "The bass are tearing up Jitter-Bugs on the surface in the evening", He promised. He demonstrated by flipping out a huge jointed ‘Bug and promptly hooking a huge fish that took us 20 minutes to get to the boat!  Suspecting one of the huge Tiger Muskies that Arthur is famous for, I grabbed the net and braced myself.  Well, it wasn’t a Bass after all… It was a 31" CARP!!!   Emile Boulanger Hook, Line, & Sinker! inc.

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Last night I caught a catfish on a plastic crawdad!  It was one of those Berkeley micros and the catfish was about a foot long.  It sure caught me by surprise when I saw what I had caught.  This isn’t the first time I caught a catfish on artificial baits, either.  Has anyone else had this happen very often? Eric Johnson

Response:

: Last night I caught a catfish on a plastic crawdad!  It was : one of those Berkeley micros and the catfish was about a foot : long.  It sure caught me by surprise when I saw what I had : caught.  This isn’t the first time I caught a catfish on : artificial baits, either.  Has anyone else had this happen : very often? : Eric Johnson

Response:

Last night I caught a catfish on a plastic crawdad!  It was one of those Berkeley micros and the catfish was about a foot long.  It sure caught me by surprise when I saw what I had caught.  This isn’t the first time I caught a catfish on artificial baits, either.  Has anyone else had this happen very often? Eric Johnson

Eric,         Would you believe, just last weekend I caught a 14# channel cat on a spinner bait while fishing for bass in a small county park here in SW Iowa. You talk abbout a surprise when you set the hook thinking  a 2 or 3 lb. bass and all of a sudden you’re being towed all over the lake for 15 mins.         BTW that was the only fish boated all afternoon.                         GITABIGUN, E. Bruce Hullman IRC: BassBug   "There’s only two things that excite a man, expensive toys and real expensive toys."                         Red Green

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Question:

:      Now, in the same manner, I’d like to try fly fishing. :      Unfortunately, it doesn’s seme possible to fly fish "casually". :      Is there a "hacker" version of fly fishing? IMHO, No, there really isn’t a ‘casual’ level of flyfishing FOR THE BEGINNER.  Now, I don’t want this to come off as ‘elitist’.  That’s not the point.  What I’m getting at is the cost of entry.

I would dissagree. When I started flyfishing, my equiptment consisted of a Diawa "econo" flyrod ($20), an $18 flyreel, a level nordmark floating flyline (daddy’s old line), and a film canister of Tom Thumbs and Spratleys (made by my music teacher). It is only as expensive as you want it to be, getting Orvis beginners kits and other "matched systems". I gave my old rod, reel and line to another child, and he has learned well enough to outfish many of the tourists with their snazzy & expensive gear! If you just want to drag a spratley behind your kayak, this is all you really need. I think the amount of information required to reach a level of personal mastery leading to optimum enjoyment of the sport is, in itself, a barrier to ‘casual’ involvement.

The key word here is "optimum".  If you are just gonna putter, don’t buy the best first off! So, back to my opinion, it’s like getting shot with .44.  It may miss you, but if it touches you, even your little finger, it will take a large bite of your being.

Too True! If the bug hits you, be prepared to spend a lifetime aquiring the toys that one collecte in persuit of this hobby. . . I now have no less than 7 flyrods! Kryten// — @         0r

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: IMHO, No, there really isn’t a : ‘casual’ level of flyfishing FOR THE BEGINNER.  Now, I don’t want this : to come off as ‘elitist’.  That’s not the point.  What I’m getting at : is the cost of entry.  I think the amount of information required to           ^^^^ Oops!  Poor choice of word.  What I was trying to emphasize here is the ‘knowledge’ component of the sport.  Granted, I’m slow.  So, it took me longer than two hours on my front lawn to learn to cast a fly rod.  Then I had to learn leader selection, fly selection, knots, presentation techniques, etc.  It wasn’t the kind of time and effort investment I would call ‘casual’. : reach a level of personal mastery leading to optimum enjoyment of the : sport is, in itself, a barrier to ‘casual’ involvement.  Folks pursue : the sport because of the personal challenge involved.  There are lots : of easier ways to catch fish–even with a fly.     : I disagree with no possible ‘casual’ flyfishing for the beginner.  I : own a custom rod that I bought thru the bargain ads for $100 : (including tackle) that turned out to be worth $300+.  Lucky move.     Lucky, indeed.  I’ve been in the sport for 25 years and own one custom-built 5 wt. that I spent $80 on components for and one $20 5 wt. that I picked up for my son to learn on.  I seem to spend all my money on raising three kids! :^) : That’s the rod I used to learn to cast on my front lawn.  Took about 2 : hours to get the casting down right (using a $10 book).  Then I took         You quick learners make me feel so stupid.  How do you do it? : my old canoe, went to a local lake and flyfished for bass and ‘gills. : CASUALLY! : I recently purchased a new fly rod (4/5# w/reel, line, backing, etc) : for a whopping $30!  It was a cheap package deal at the local sporting : goods store.  Is it a top of the line, high quality rod?  No, : obviously.  But it won’t bother me if it breaks in the back of my : truck and I can keep it ready for a few casts at lunch time!  Again, : casually. : I am no pro but I know what I like and enjoy it.  Yes, you can be a : ‘casual’ flyfisherman (or woman for that matter) without dumping a lot : of money.  Start out at your own pace and have fun!         Who’s talking about money?  We’re talkin investment here, and I consider my time and effort part of the investment–a pleasant part that I chose to invest.  This lad is asking about getting into the sport without investing himself.  My answer stands. : BA : P.S: Charley, you do sound like an elitist…         Well, it is the only thing in my life that I do well.  So, I like to crow about it once in awhile.  Don’t confuse trolling a fly on the end of a flyrod from a kayak with FLYFISHING.  That’s baitfishing with the wrong equipment! Charley

Response:

Don’t confuse trolling a fly on the end of a flyrod from a kayak with FLYFISHING.  That’s baitfishing with the wrong equipment!

Ah, the subtlety of distinctions.  Trolling, er, I mean "drifting" a bobber, er, I mean "strike indicator" from a dory, er, I mean drift boat, now that’s fly fishing.  Don’t confuse this with trolling a fly on the end of a flyrod from a kayak. Got it straight? — -Wayne Trzyna

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: Don’t confuse trolling a fly : on the end of a flyrod from a kayak with FLYFISHING.  That’s baitfishing : with the wrong equipment! : Ah, the subtlety of distinctions.  Trolling, er, I mean "drifting" a : bobber, er, I mean "strike indicator" from a dory, er, I mean drift boat, : now that’s fly fishing.  Don’t confuse this with trolling a fly on the : end of a flyrod from a kayak. : Got it straight? OUCH!  Got me!  I knew as I typed that I was setting myself up.  But, I just couldn’t see the bullet. Thanks, Wayne, I needed that. : -Wayne Trzyna Charley

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I sincerely hope flyfishing is casual; if it is not casual then it must be called a job. Haven’t I seen a bumber sticker reading something like ‘Work is for people who don’t know how to fish?’ Ditto on Curtis Creek Manifesto, absolutely the best brief beginners survey of the sport. And still in print. — Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

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 (trimmed) Being as I catch and release this will help me to have more fun with the time I have. How can you go wrong with that?

Bob: Obviously you haven’t been reading Tim Walker’s latest ravings. A cheap rod and a plan to practice C&R? If Tim doesn’t pounce on you here, he’ll undoubtedly strike when you least expect it; probably when you are going into a fish and chip place to turn in a coupon for a free reel. I’m afraid by Tim’s standards (whatever they are) you’ve already gone wrong. Terribly wrong. John

Response:

: IMHO, No, there really isn’t a : ‘casual’ level of flyfishing FOR THE BEGINNER.  Now, I don’t want this : to come off as ‘elitist’.  That’s not the point.  What I’m getting at : is the cost of entry.  I think the amount of information required to : reach a level of personal mastery leading to optimum enjoyment of the : sport is, in itself, a barrier to ‘casual’ involvement.  Folks pursue : the sport because of the personal challenge involved.  There are lots : of easier ways to catch fish–even with a fly.     : I disagree with no possible ‘casual’ flyfishing for the beginner.  I : own a custom rod that I bought thru the bargain ads for $100 : (including tackle) that turned out to be worth $300+.  Lucky move. : That’s the rod I used to learn to cast on my front lawn.  Took about 2 : hours to get the casting down right (using a $10 book).  Then I took : my old canoe, went to a local lake and flyfished for bass and ‘gills. : CASUALLY! : I recently purchased a new fly rod (4/5# w/reel, line, backing, etc) : for a whopping $30!  It was a cheap package deal at the local sporting : goods store.  Is it a top of the line, high quality rod?  No, : obviously.  But it won’t bother me if it breaks in the back of my : truck and I can keep it ready for a few casts at lunch time!  Again, : casually. : I am no pro but I know what I like and enjoy it.  Yes, you can be a : ‘casual’ flyfisherman (or woman for that matter) without dumping a lot : of money.  Start out at your own pace and have fun! : BA : P.S: Charley, you do sound like an elitist… Well without getting into name calling I think I can see both points here. It seems flyfishing is not for everyone because of the work it takes to be *serious* about it. On the other hand I see myself as the "casual" fisherman that wants to try something new so I also went out and got one of them $30.00 setups and my fiance went out and got me a set of 6 flies and a case for them for the hell of it. I guess if you have the time and money anything can become expensive but for a lot of us it may be a few hours to ourselves doing what we like to do. I for one look foward to learning something new when the other line is just sitting there waiting. I know I’ll lose a few nice fish this way but in the long run I should catch more. Being as I catch and release this will help me to have more fun with the time I have. How can you go wrong with that?

Response:

: IMHO, No, there really isn’t a : ‘casual’ level of flyfishing FOR THE BEGINNER.  Now, I don’t want this : to come off as ‘elitist’.  That’s not the point.  What I’m getting at : is the cost of entry.  I think the amount of information required to

Geeze, Bob.  You must have gone back months to get this.  It’s been dead and gone for awhile.  FYI, I did follow this up with a disclaimer that it was unfortunate that I used the term ‘cost of entry’.  I was referring to the learning curve, not the monetary hurdles.  Nonetheless, I was sort of glad to see this particular piece age off the net! :^( Well without getting into name calling I think I can see both points here.

Me, too! Charley

Response:

IMHO, No, there really isn’t a ‘casual’ level of flyfishing FOR THE BEGINNER.  Now, I don’t want this    [...] I disagree with no possible ‘casual’ flyfishing for the beginner.  I    [...] I am no pro but I know what I like and enjoy it.  Yes, you can be a ‘casual’ flyfisherman (or woman for that matter) without dumping a lot of money.  Start out at your own pace and have fun! BA

  Thanks for the encouragement! As I said in another post, I’ve spent $100 so far, including the rod I also use for casting and trolling. Since I ride a motorbike to most of my fishing spots, I need one rod that does it all, and I found the fly-rod (a "Mitchell" I bought at Canadian Tire for $30) is quite nice for casting (it’s a little thin for trolling, but I caught a few trout trolling with it anyway!).    Anyway, I’m off to see if any fish like my new flies! —    "I’m doing everything I can, and stop calling me Shirley!"  

Response:

    (I’ve looked at various books on the subject, but they all seem far

too advanced for me.) Get a copy of Curtis Creek Manifesto.  It’s a classic, done in a sort of a cartoon style, and teahces you what you need to know to fish at the level you describe.  It’s only 48 pages.  Costs 5.95 and I’m pretty sure it’s still in print.

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    (I’ve looked at various books on the subject, but they all seem far too advanced for me.) Get a copy of Curtis Creek Manifesto.  It’s a classic, done in a sort of a cartoon style, and teahces you what you need to know to fish at the level you describe.  It’s only 48 pages.  Costs 5.95 and I’m pretty sure it’s still in print.

I couldn’t agree more.  I saw this book in the store and thought it had some very good beginner information presented in an extremely easy to understand manner. I bought a copy of it just so I have some easy to understand literature to give to prospective "recruits" when they ask me about fly-fishing. —     \      \   \    \  \   ^  Timothy D. Bouvia             ^    \      \    \   \\\    ^  HRB Systems, Inc., Dept. 112  ^     \      \    \   \   \    ^  State College, Pa. 16804-0060 ^

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Fly fishing for Dummies? Hmm…I wouldn’t even know what fly to use

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:      I’ve been "casually" fishing just about all my life ( eg. I drag a line : behind my kayak so that I don’t look like I’m just goofing off…). I’ve : caught a few fish, but I’m certainly not fanatic about it. I don’t even know : what weight the line is on my reel ( I think it’s 6 lb for trout, 25 lb for : salmon.) :      Now, in the same manner, I’d like to try fly fishing. :      Unfortunately, it doesn’s seme possible to fly fish "casually". :      Is there a "hacker" version of fly fishing? IMHO, No, there really isn’t a ‘casual’ level of flyfishing FOR THE BEGINNER.  Now, I don’t want this to come off as ‘elitist’.  That’s not the point.  What I’m getting at is the cost of entry.  I think the amount of information required to reach a level of personal mastery leading to optimum enjoyment of the sport is, in itself, a barrier to ‘casual’ involvement.  Folks pursue the sport because of the personal challenge involved.  There are lots of easier ways to catch fish–even with a fly.     So, back to my opinion, it’s like getting shot with .44.  It may miss you, but if it touches you, even your little finger, it will take a large bite of your being. Charley

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IMHO, No, there really isn’t a ‘casual’ level of flyfishing FOR THE BEGINNER.  Now, I don’t want this to come off as ‘elitist’.  That’s not the point.  What I’m getting at is the cost of entry.  I think the amount of information required to reach a level of personal mastery leading to optimum enjoyment of the sport is, in itself, a barrier to ‘casual’ involvement.  Folks pursue the sport because of the personal challenge involved.  There are lots of easier ways to catch fish–even with a fly.    

I disagree with no possible ‘casual’ flyfishing for the beginner.  I own a custom rod that I bought thru the bargain ads for $100 (including tackle) that turned out to be worth $300+.  Lucky move. That’s the rod I used to learn to cast on my front lawn.  Took about 2 hours to get the casting down right (using a $10 book).  Then I took my old canoe, went to a local lake and flyfished for bass and ‘gills. CASUALLY! I recently purchased a new fly rod (4/5# w/reel, line, backing, etc) for a whopping $30!  It was a cheap package deal at the local sporting goods store.  Is it a top of the line, high quality rod?  No, obviously.  But it won’t bother me if it breaks in the back of my truck and I can keep it ready for a few casts at lunch time!  Again, casually. I am no pro but I know what I like and enjoy it.  Yes, you can be a ‘casual’ flyfisherman (or woman for that matter) without dumping a lot of money.  Start out at your own pace and have fun! BA P.S: Charley, you do sound like an elitist…

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Question:

If anyone cares (please!), the editor/publisher of California Fly Fisher has finally figured out how to get his modem working without sending the rest of his hardware into a nervous breakdown. Current email addresses are And hey, fans of Seth Norman’s writing (as seen in such august pubs as Fly Rod & Reel, Gray’s Sporting Journal, Fied & Stream and – yow! – Cal FF) might like to know that, as of Jan 21, he’s the proud papa of baby Sofia. Ta ta for now, Richard Anderson

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If anyone cares (please!), the editor/publisher of California Fly Fisher has finally figured out how to get his modem working without sending the rest of his hardware into a nervous breakdown. Current email addresses are

Cool.  California Fly Fisher gets on to the Internet.  I’ll have you know that I have been promoting your magazine in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly since it’s debut issue and have posted the subscrition address a number of times.  Keep up the good work. — John Fereira "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA "Ask me about my vow of silence."

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Richard, great to have you online.  I never get to bed early the day your magazine arrives, because I’ll read it way into the night.  Please publish your e-mail addresses in your magazine also, I’m sure it will increase the letters to the editor. Keep up the great work!  We should have plenty of water next season!  Bill

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Question:

I’ve been looking at the drift boats kits online from Greg Boats and Ray’s Dories. Has anybody built one of these boats for fly fishing? How did the building go, any tips? Also, who did you buy the kit from? Any info would be appreciated.

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Check out Greg Tatman’s kits.  I built the 12′ river pram.  After all said and done it cost a little over a grand to build and fully outfit. While a 2 person boat, it fishes best as one person rig.  Stable as well as maneuverable.  It fishes the steelhead rivers here on the Olympic Peninsula and Snake River drainages just fine. I would select it again in a heartbeat.  It came with a good set of instructions and when I got stumped, Greg was glad to answer questions.  It took about 4 months of week ends, maybe 80 hours. I do not have the number at hand, but call information and ask for Tatman Boats in Springfield Oregon. Bart Phillips

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve been looking at the drift boats kits online from Greg Boats and Ray’s Dories. Has anybody built one of these boats for fly fishing? How did the building go, any tips? Also, who did you buy the kit from? Any info would be appreciated.

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I built a Don Hill Drift Boat a 16 ft. Guide Boat, it is a great kit comes complete with video and instructions. The boat took about 120 hrs to build and Don has a 1- 800 Number if you have any questions. He and his staff aim to please the customer and if I was going to build another boat it would be his. Also Greg Tatman used to work for Don before going into business. Call Don Hill @ 1- 800878 – 5488 and tell him you heard about him from Kent Anderson in Nashville Tn. fly fishing

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I built a Don Hill Drift Boat a 16 ft. Guide Boat, it is a great kit comes complete with video and instructions.

Whadja pay ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Thanks for the info. I’ll give him a call. Where do you use your boat in Nashville. I’m in KY.

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I am interested in building a drift boat.  If anybody has any information or experiences with drift boat kits I would appreciate any input.

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be careful. i had a drift boat, and i sold it.  it was very hard to do.  i actually cried as it left the driveway and turned the corner into someone else’s flyfishing reality. the problem was..the driftboat haunted me.  i would be leaving for work and it would be in the driveway saying "tim..how can you go off to work and leave me all alone in the driveway…". or, i’d be heading off on a wading adventure or with the belly boat and it would cry…"tim…how could you ?". and then, of course i’d feel guilty and this in turn would lead to a fishless day (happened a lot, actually). approach this driftboat thing with care my friend… Tim Walker

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Strongly suggest that anyone thinking about building a drift boat contact the Wooden Boat Shop in Seattle, and purchase a set of Tracy O’brien’s plans.  This plan set tells how to build a stitch and glue hull, which has no frames to trip over or take up space, is far stronger, and has fiberglass/epoxy chines, which is where the damage gets done.  I have built both a Don Hill (which is a lovely boat, BTW) and an O’Brien, and the O’brien is much sweeter.   Stitch and glue is a technique where you sew the plywood panels together with iron wire, brace the panels into shape, and then treat the seams with first a fillet of epoxy soaked sawdust and then epoxy soaked fiberglass tape.  This creates an extremely strong hull, and uses no ribs.  This gives you an open floor, which means nothing to trip over, and no floorboards to catch your fly line.  BIG advantage. You can buy a finished boat of this style by contacting Creekside Outfitters in Issaquah, WA.  They have somebody selling the hulls for about $1700.  Better to build yourself and have the pleasure.  Also, much as in rod building, by doing it yourself, you can use neat woods and get the extra cosmetic pleasure for minimal costs. Take care with the woods that you use.  Suggest that you get Hoadley’s book on hardwoods and use that to drive your materials selection

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: be careful. : the problem was..the driftboat haunted me.  i would be leaving for : work and it would be in the driveway saying "tim..how can you go : off to work and leave me all alone in the driveway…". I guess Tim hears a lot of voices.  I think we are the ones who should be careful. Ignore the voices, Tim.  They are only in your head.  Really. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.

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: Strongly suggest that anyone thinking about building a drift boat contact : the Wooden Boat Shop in Seattle, and purchase a set of Tracy O’brien’s : plans.  This plan set tells how to build a stitch and glue hull, which : has no frames to trip over or take up space, is far stronger, and has : fiberglass/epoxy chines, which is where the damage gets done.  I have : built both a Don Hill (which is a lovely boat, BTW) and an O’Brien, and : the O’brien is much sweeter.   Andrew, just how difficult are the techniques and effort required to do a good job?  Special tools, techniques, etc…? Thanks. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.

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My fly fishing buddy just bought a new drift boat for fishing the Green River. Unfortunately we have not been able to find any information on how to navigate the river well.  We don’t have much trouble when rowing backwards but when the boat is turned around to go through the rapids it is difficult to steer. We haven’t been able to find books, instruction, or anything else to make this any easier.  Has anyone had experience doing this?  Can you suggest any publications to assist us. Thanks! Jeff Dinsdale

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Call 1-800-541-9498 (Frank Amato Publications) Ask for "Floating Whitewater Rivers". This book should get you on the right track.

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I have a rule which has served me well. Never go down a river unless:     a) you have gone down it with someone who knows the river         and     b) you specifically intended to learn the river from that person. Rule number 2:  Always put the plug in before launching. Have fun!

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Question:

        Why don’t we start another subnet for flyfishing, and then break down each major cat. so that we can become organized in our net. Something to think about, it’s helped other news groups out alot! GN

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   Why don’t we start another subnet for flyfishing, and then break down each major cat. so that we can become organized in our net. Something to think about, it’s helped other news groups out alot!

The traffic level isn’t high enough to justify creating subgroups.  The flyfishing discussions seem to be coexisting quite well with all the other discussions.   — John Fereira

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