Question:

This year we’re going to France to do some Fly-fishing. Does anybody has some experience in Bourgondie, Avergne, Midi-Pyrenes (or other places) thanks, martin

Response:

Hey Martin, have a look at the following WebPages. The first two are for fishing only, Union Nationale pour la P

Question:

I am looking into getting a rainproof wading jacket. What is everyone using and how do you like it? — // Dan in Old Town, Maine \

I purchased an L. L. Bean gortex wading jacket with the neoprene cuffs, handwarmer pockets, etc.  several years ago for a trip to Ireland.  I recommend it highly!  The price was not bad and the features are great. Tight Lines, Mike.

Response:

I am looking into getting a rainproof wading jacket. What is everyone using and how do you like it? I want to have several options: leak proof sleeve cuffs (neoprene or something) adjustable waist, several pockets on outside and inside, adjustable hood, ability to get into vest inside without opening jacket, hand warming pockets. Does one exist ?? I have seen Cabela’s, LL Bean’s and Streamline’s. What else is out there ? I like Cabela’s price but Bean’s features. What do you say ??

I have a Cabella’s Gore-Tex and it works fine.  I fished for 6 hours in a cold rain in mid may and it kept me completly dry. MikeH

Response:

I am looking into getting a rainproof wading jacket. What is everyone using and how do you like it?

Hi Dan, I’ve got the Orvis No-Sweat Wading jacket and I like it!  It’s made out of the same stuff the Orvis No-Sweat waders are.  The outer fabric is brushed microfiber, the inside is mesh.  Comes in a sage green color.   The hood is adjustable for length, allows peripheral vision, has a good bill, allows you to tighten it up close or loosen it and the hood turns when you turn.  No more looking into the side of the hood when you turn your head. It has adjustable wrist seals and a drawstring waist that you can tighten from inside the hand-warmer pockets which are located behind the two large outer pockets.  D-ring on back for your net.  The whole jacket will stuff into the front right pocket.  Hang it up, or put it right on, and the wrinkles fall right out of it in a few minutes. I used it in the salt for the first time about two weeks ago and it worked great. Hiked around a bunch in it and stayed comfy.   I did get wet inside the jacket once because I didn’t seal the waist with the drawstring and a wave hit me and scooted up the inside (brrrrr).  Only did that once, learned my leasson real quick.   Real happy with it so far.  Price is $195, though the Orvis company stores have it on sale right now for ~ $156.  Don’t know how long that lower price will be good – real unusual to have Orvis fishing equipment on sale this time of year.                                     Hope this helps,                                           Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

I am looking into getting a rainproof wading jacket. What is everyone using and how do you like it? I want to have several options: leak proof sleeve cuffs (neoprene or something) adjustable waist, several pockets on outside and inside, adjustable hood, ability to get into vest inside without opening jacket, hand warming pockets. Does one exist ?? I have seen Cabela’s, LL Bean’s and Streamline’s. What else is out there ? I like Cabela’s price but Bean’s features. What do you say ?? — // Dan in Old Town, Maine \

Response:

I am looking into getting a rainproof wading jacket. What is everyone using and how do you like it? I want to have several options: leak proof sleeve cuffs (neoprene or something) adjustable waist, several pockets on outside and inside, adjustable hood, ability to get into vest inside without opening jacket, hand warming pockets. Does one exist ?? I have seen Cabela’s, LL Bean’s and Streamline’s. What else is out there ? I like Cabela’s price but Bean’s features. What do you say ?? — // Dan in Old Town, Maine \

I’ve been wearing the Streamline and I’m relatively pleased with it. The fit is good, front pockets could be a little higher, hood is good, and is cut large enough for casting, stretching, etc. — Best regards, Dave Visit Dave Teffeteller’s Fly Fishing Guides Home Page http://www.olfart.com

Response:

I love Filson stuff It will last you a life time of that I’m sure. yes it would be some what heavy, I would like to have a Filson if I was fishing in alot of brush you would be hard pressed to tear it. I wouldn’t think a lite weight jacket would live up to much over time. Now I do know a guy that has both one a Filson and a Simms gortex, The lite weight one will pack up in to a smaller size. As for the one that will work for you I’m sure that will depend on how and where you fish. For me it would be the Filson If I’m going to spend that much for a jacket I want it to last. Eric

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in the process of choosing between the wilson creek or filson wading jacket, has anyone used either. If so could you let me know what you think of them. — Tim Apple

Response:

I’m in the process of choosing between the wilson creek or filson wading jacket, has anyone used either. If so could you let me know what you think of them. — Tim Apple

Response:

I don’t have either of the wading jackets that you mentioned, but I can attest to the quality of the Filson product line. I have a couple of their luggage bags and I extensively use their rod and reel travel bag. I carry three reels, two fly boxes and two rod tubes in the travel bag all of the time. I have never had a problem with the Filson products in the years that I’ve used them. Now that you’ve remined me that they have a wading jacket, I have something to put on my wish list from Santa. Ryan -who lives a few miles from their factory in Seattle.

Response:

I’m in the process of choosing between the wilson creek or filson wading jacket, has anyone used either. If so could you let me know what you think of them.

I’ve got the Filson jacket and it’s as Ryan says below — their stuff is pretty much bulletproof. However, you should also keep in mind that their gear kicks it old-school (as flyfishing rappers like to say). Which is to say that even though their wading jacket is very tough and pretty much impregnable to rain, it breathes about as well as Darth Vader. You’ll end up sweating a lot and then getting chilled because of it since the sweat has nowhere to go. That’s my experience anyway. Keeping it real, – Sid

Response:

I like filson stuff, but it tends to be heavy…I’ve abandoned my Filson vest for a Simms vest I’m much happier with…for camping though, I use their tin pants and an oil cloth jacket as well and I love them.  If I were buying a wading jacket today, I would go light-weight. Eugene Knapik Toronto

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in the process of choosing between the wilson creek or filson wading jacket, has anyone used either. If so could you let me know what you think of them. I’ve got the Filson jacket and it’s as Ryan says below — their stuff is pretty much bulletproof. However, you should also keep in mind that their gear kicks it old-school (as flyfishing rappers like to say). Which is to say that even though their wading jacket is very tough and pretty much impregnable to rain, it breathes about as well as Darth Vader. You’ll end up sweating a lot and then getting chilled because of it since the sweat has nowhere to go. That’s my experience anyway. Keeping it real, – Sid

Response:

Hi, I have a Filson Cruiser which I have bought sometime in the late 1960’s. Based on my experience with the wool jacket, a great product, I later bought a Filson fishing hat.  The hat however was totally unacceptable and I threw it out.  It was made of oiled canvas and I found it to be much too heavy and much too hot.  I am not familiar with the wading jacket but if it is made of the same material, I would think twice about buying it. Best regards, Yuji Sakuma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in the process of choosing between the wilson creek or filson wading jacket, has anyone used either. If so could you let me know what you think of them. — Tim Apple

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well that’s the case for me Terry. It takes around 3 days for a dose change of only 2 units to be "noticed" and another 3 days for things to settle again. It took me close on two weeks to change successfully from 28 units per day to 24 units and back up slightly to 26 units, when I was finding my best basal dose. As you probably know, I use beef Lente, but when I was using Novo’s Ultratard, the same thing applied. I had to accept that any changes needed a week to be fully "absorbed" Beav Thanks. So what I’ve been doing is eating like crazy. The last last weekend away I had to eat so much my gut was full and could hardly process all the food.

Can’t you reduce the Humalog during a strenuous weekend and eat "slightly" more than usual? That’s what I have to do VERY regularly as no two weeks are alike with me. It was a real problem. So I’ve been thinking of 2 other approaches. I could drink a sugar filled soft drink like Coke as needed -easier to digest.OR go on the pump.

Pumping isn’t high on the list of "wantables" for me, but the odd Coke does the trick if I’ve cut back on my Humalog. If all you use in a pump is say Humalog, you could adjust very easily.

I would imagine so. Of course starting on the pump is a big undertaking and I would need to consider other factors. But I need to know my options because I need to keep up my habit of Salt Water Fly Fishing!

Sorry Terry, I have no experience of either. I don’t even know what a salt water fly LOOKS like Thoughts?

Only the "less Humalog" and a good supply of instant sugar. I prefer Mars Bars myself for those heavy days coz they give a pretty quick lift and I don’t "crash and burn" too soon after. Beav

Response:

Well that’s the case for me Terry. It takes around 3 days for a dose change of only 2 units to be "noticed" and another 3 days for things to settle again. It took me close on two weeks to change successfully from 28 units per day to 24 units and back up slightly to 26 units, when I was finding my best basal dose. As you probably know, I use beef Lente, but when I was using Novo’s Ultratard, the same thing applied. I had to accept that any changes needed a week to be fully "absorbed" Beav

Thanks. So what I’ve been doing is eating like crazy. The last last weekend away I had to eat so much my gut was full and could hardly process all the food. It was a real problem. So I’ve been thinking of 2 other approaches. I could drink a sugar filled soft drink like Coke as needed -easier to digest.OR go on the pump. If all you use in a pump is say Humalog, you could adjust very easily. Of course starting on the pump is a big undertaking and I would need to consider other factors. But I need to know my options because I need to keep up my habit of Salt Water Fly Fishing! Thoughts?

Response:

I am a type 1 and take Humalog and Ultralente 3 years. As I look back on this summer I see I made some good improvements on dealing with camping trips, fishing trips, hiking and other strenuous activity. I’m really trying to get a better hold on how to deal with strenuous weekends as it relates to my long acting Ultalente.  Currently what happens is I will go away for a weekend that involves lots of excercise and fresh air in the outdoors. I tend to go in the low BG direction the 1st day and start eating like crazy. Yes I cut back on my Humalog for sure as I do when ever I excercise. But it’s not enough. I think the long acting insulins start to dominate. I tried once this last fall on a weekend sporting trip to cut back my U but was not sure. Isn’t it true that the long acting insulins develop some sort of momentum in your system? And if so,  just reducing your U  level 10-20 hours before hand will NOT have an effect? — Terence Weir

Response:

writes – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am a type 1 and take Humalog and Ultralente 3 years. As I look back on this summer I see I made some good improvements on dealing with camping trips, fishing trips, hiking and other strenuous activity. I’m really trying to get a better hold on how to deal with strenuous weekends as it relates to my long acting Ultalente.  Currently what happens is I will go away for a weekend that involves lots of excercise and fresh air in the outdoors. I tend to go in the low BG direction the 1st day and start eating like crazy. Yes I cut back on my Humalog for sure as I do when ever I excercise. But it’s not enough. I think the long acting insulins start to dominate. I tried once this last fall on a weekend sporting trip to cut back my U but was not sure. Isn’t it true that the long acting insulins develop some sort of momentum in your system? And if so,  just reducing your U  level 10-20 hours before hand will NOT have an effect?

Well that’s the case for me Terry. It takes around 3 days for a dose change of only 2 units to be "noticed" and another 3 days for things to settle again. It took me close on two weeks to change successfully from 28 units per day to 24 units and back up slightly to 26 units, when I was finding my best basal dose. As you probably know, I use beef Lente, but when I was using Novo’s Ultratard, the same thing applied. I had to accept that any changes needed a week to be fully "absorbed" Beav

Response:

Question:

I have heard that the fishing for stripers can be good right through November. Can anyone point me to a source of information about this.  It would be helpful to know: How late the fish are generally around. Where you can launch a boat from and safely leave your truck and trailer. What tides and locations are best. Thanks for info. JK

Response:

Http://www.reel-time.com  Check the FishWire Reports.  Weekly NY saltwater fly fishing reports. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have heard that the fishing for stripers can be good right through November. Can anyone point me to a source of information about this.  It would be helpful to know: How late the fish are generally around. Where you can launch a boat from and safely leave your truck and trailer. What tides and locations are best. Thanks for info. JK

Response:

Question:

I am thinking of a weeks fishing in the Fernie area some time between July 15 and August 15.  In terms of dry fly fishing, what is the best time to go? What bugs?  Will snow pack be an issue in terms of timing? JK

Response:

From my limited experience (one trip), the  later in your time period, the better for dry fly fishing. Plat

Response:

your timing looks good for a steady diet of dryfly action. patterns to bring:

gr drakes #12,14. stimulators orange, yellow large. rubber leg stones. hoppers later in Aug. if you require guide service click to www.bcangling.com best rates garaunteed. if you come in July, there are some trophy Rainbow lakes not too far away and the sedge hatch may still be happening. tls, pk.

Response:

Question:

What is up with all this talk about being nice as you kill a trout and the hate wars between the Catch and Release and Catch and Kill camp?  For God sake go fly fishing, have a hell of a good time and quit thinking so damn much!! <grin  If you want to let the fish go, then do so.  If you are hungry, have it for dinner.  Crap, The FFF is on its way to becoming its own political part at this rate.  Some of you can phillibuster with the best of them.   Wake me when the topic entails the joy of fly fishing. Flamefully yours. Mike

Response:

Wake me when the topic entails the joy of fly fishing.

Here Here ! I’ve got $250 bucks to blow on a new fly rod. Should I get a Sage or a Loomis ? Thanks in advance ! Release a Brookie for Bob ! (J.R. "Bob" Dobbs)

Response:

Wake me when the topic entails the joy of fly fishing. Here Here ! I’ve got $250 bucks to blow on a new fly rod. Should I get a Sage or a Loomis ? Thanks in advance !

I’ve always pictured you with an Orvis, pink neoprenes and mirrored sun glasses. Ralph H Electro-Pal(TM) Electro-Pal is the Property of Cook-Walker Robotics which takes full legal responsibility for any slanderous or libelous writing the system may generate. To have your lawyer contact their lawyer email:

Response:

[deleted] I’ve always pictured you with an Orvis, pink neoprenes and mirrored sun glasses.

oooooh…..you thavage you !!!. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

Wake me when the topic entails the joy of fly fishing. Here Here !

Whatdahell?!?! No "fuck off, Mike" this time? What’s next?!? World peace? I want the real Moe Skeeter back, damnit!!  ;/ — Christian Figenschou – http://home.sol.no/figen/

Response:

yep!

Response:

Charlie Choc: <<I think they wear GoreTex Spandex waders and felt soled ballet shoes up there Aspen way. Yes.  And when they drive their Orvis Jeeps, they have Orvis driving gloves, and Orvis driving shoes, and Orvis driving hats.  And they smoke  Orvis cigars. Dave L.

____ David!  Be nice.  On second thought, do you suppose someone will come out with a Presidential Cigar? How about a Presidential Harmonica? I imagine sales would depend upon if a fly fisherman would rather suck or blow? Out of my league.  We don’t sell cigars. We rather prefer customers that like to squeeze things. ))) A little levity here fellahs.   )))))))))))) oh my god. Mr. G. Side note to Monica.  Honey, I hope they impeach the immoral, aldulterous, unethicial, dishonorable, quibbling, lying, dope smoking, fornicating, wife cheating, bastard.  Makes everyone wonder what really goes on in that family, doesn’t it?  I should include the many unsaid things about a President that is married to an unfaithful wife also.  Dragging Hillary out of the Whitehouse will include repairing the prying finger mark impressions she will leave on the granite pillars. Trust me.  These are not nice people. None of them are. If Ross Perot was a fly fisherman, I’d probably vote for him. Sorry gang.  This nonsense doesn’t belong here. Back to Ironhead fishing for me. Sorry.  I just dislike Bill Clinton, a great deal.

Response:

Wake me when the topic entails the joy of fly fishing. Here Here ! I’ve got $250 bucks to blow on a new fly rod. Should I get a Sage or a Loomis ? Thanks in advance ! I’ve always pictured you with an Orvis, pink neoprenes and mirrored sun glasses.

I think they wear GoreTex Spandex waders and felt soled ballet shoes up there Aspen way. — Charlie…

Response:

Charlie Choc: <<I think they wear GoreTex Spandex waders and felt soled ballet shoes up there Aspen way. Yes.  And when they drive their Orvis Jeeps, they have Orvis driving gloves, and Orvis driving shoes, and Orvis driving hats.  And they smoke  Orvis cigars. Dave L.

Response:

And they smoke  Orvis cigars. Dave L.

Good to see that there are still Americans who know that cigars are for smoking! By the way: do you guys know if "THE CIGAR" was an Orvis one????? Hans van der Stroom

Response:

Well, if you are talking about perch, white bass, walleye and other well populated fish I agree.  But, . . . if you are talking bass or trout I can not agree with killing them.  The pressure is too great.. john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is up with all this talk about being nice as you kill a trout and the hate wars between the Catch and Release and Catch and Kill camp?  For God sake go fly fishing, have a hell of a good time and quit thinking so damn much!! <grin If you want to let the fish go, then do so.  If you are hungry, have it for dinner.  Crap, The FFF is on its way to becoming its own political part at this rate.  Some of you can phillibuster with the best of them. Wake me when the topic entails the joy of fly fishing. Flamefully yours. Mike

Response:

And they smoke  Orvis cigars. Dave L. Good to see that there are still Americans who know that cigars are for smoking! By the way: do you guys know if "THE CIGAR" was an Orvis one????? Hans van der Stroom

… it was a Cuban cigar – I gave it to him (with a wink) when he was here in BC last year. Ralph H

Response:

Question:

Thanks Dan and all who responded to my inquiry.  I have an email in (which preceded my opening of this thread by 10 days, and remains unanswered) to ODFW, and we willsee what they say.  If I do not hear from them shortly, I will revert to primitive technology and use the telephone, if I can find it amongst all these damn feathers…:)   Thanks Ken, too.. If you hear from the Oregon agency folks via email, hope you will let us know here. Tks! Bob

Response:

get the lead out! Safe with bismuth and other such as copper, (for now) Schuhfly

Response:

Last September, when we honeymooned around Bend, we were fishing the Fall and the Metolius and were told by other anglers (well, one in each place, actually..) that no lead (ie:split shot, putty, etc.) was permitted in either river.  Nor were lead-weighted flies.  So, we did not use them. However, I scoured the Oregon regs booklet and could find no such regs specific to either river. We plan to return next month for a week and want to abide by the law, however, we’d also like to be able to fish nymphs in the conventional manner we do here in the east, with lead on the leader, etc.  Can anyone clarify this for me? Is it really the law?  Additionally, if it is so, does the prohibition extend to the non toxic shots and putties?  Any help appreciated.. In return, we promise not to move to Oregon, but reserve the right to visit occasionally…:)  Thanks!

I don’t know for sure, but I’ve never heard of it, and I couldn’t find it in the regs either.  It might be encouraged, but I don’t think it’s a reg…yet. You still have to not move here though.  :-) Later,      - Ken — Not speaking for anyone but myself

Response:

I know lead is not permitted either (because I’ve been told too!) but if I nymph I use beadheads – pheasant tails,etc. Bill

Response:

Last September, when we honeymooned around Bend, we were fishing the Fall and the Metolius and were told by other anglers (well, one in each place, actually..) that no lead (ie:split shot, putty, etc.) was permitted in either river.  Nor were lead-weighted flies.  So, we did not use them. However, I scoured the Oregon regs booklet and could find no such regs specific to either river. We plan to return next month for a week and want to abide by the law, however, we’d also like to be able to fish nymphs in the conventional manner we do here in the east, with lead on the leader, etc.  Can anyone clarify this for me? Is it really the law?  Additionally, if it is so, does the prohibition extend to the non toxic shots and putties?  Any help appreciated.. In return, we promise not to move to Oregon, but reserve the right to visit occasionally…:)  Thanks!  

Response:

Looking at the 1998 regs: P7: Artificial fly: a hook (weighted or nonweighted) dressed with conventional fly materials only; a fly is not a hook to which sinkers, molded weights or plastic bodies, spinners, spoons, or similar attractors are attached I read this to say that, for example, lead wire wrapped on the hook is OK, but split shot on the line is not. P51: Fall River: Restricted to fly angling only with barbless hooks P52: Metolius River: Restricted to artificial flies and lures downstream from bridge 99. Restricted to artificial flies only upstream from bridge 99. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know lead is not permitted either (because I’ve been told too!) but if I nymph I use beadheads – pheasant tails,etc. Bill

Response:

Hmmm, I know that a lot of fly-fishing people use split-shot around here, I wonder if it’s only an issue in fly-fishing only waters.  I’m gonna email somebody at ODFW and ask. If waters are open to artificial flies and lures (Metolius) then I would read that to mean that split-shot is okay.  I’ll post whatever response I get.      - Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking at the 1998 regs: P7: Artificial fly: a hook (weighted or nonweighted) dressed with conventional fly materials only; a fly is not a hook to which sinkers, molded weights or plastic bodies, spinners, spoons, or similar attractors are attached I read this to say that, for example, lead wire wrapped on the hook is OK, but split shot on the line is not. P51: Fall River: Restricted to fly angling only with barbless hooks P52: Metolius River: Restricted to artificial flies and lures downstream from bridge 99. Restricted to artificial flies only upstream from bridge 99. I know lead is not permitted either (because I’ve been told too!) but if I nymph I use beadheads – pheasant tails,etc. Bill

— Not speaking for anyone but myself

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(RLPPT) writes: Last September, when we honeymooned around Bend, we were fishing the Fall and the Metolius and were told by other anglers (well, one in each place, actually..) that no lead (ie:split shot, putty, etc.) was permitted in either river.  Nor were lead-weighted flies.  So, we did not use them. However, I scoured the Oregon regs booklet and could find no such regs specific to either river. We plan to return next month for a week and want to abide by the law, however, we’d also like to be able to fish nymphs in the conventional manner we do here in the east, with lead on the leader, etc.  Can anyone clarify this for me? Is it really the law?  Additionally, if it is so, does the prohibition extend to the non toxic shots and putties?  Any help appreciated.. In return, we promise not to move to Oregon, but reserve the right to visit occasionally…:)  Thanks!  

Hi RLPPT, When I lived in Oregon (76 – 87), lead on the leader was not allowed in any "fly fishing  only" waters such as the upper part of the North Umpqua River (don’t know if it’s still designated so).  So, you need to check the general regs on "fly fishing only" waters or what defines fly fishing as far as Oregon is concerned.   There was no prohibition against lead in the fly, just not allowed on the leader.  Story goes this came about because some folks were snagging steelhead and salmon by using huge flies with double hooks and huge chunks of lead on the leader to get around the ff only regs.   Part of the Metolius at the time was also designated ff only then, and again you couldn’t use lead on the leader.  Fish in this spring creek part of the river (changes as you move downstream) were partial to small flies which were really hard to get down to them without weight.  Folks would tie up some larger weighted nymphs (even stoneflies) and run a small PT on a dropper.  Fish always took the PT.  The Tungsten Beads (much heavier than the normal beads) used as a thorax on a PT make it possible to get down a small fly without the second heavily weighted one. This one is probably worth a call to the Oregon DFW.                                      Good Fishing                                         Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Larry-  Most knot strength tests are done with dry monofilament that is tied and tested while dry. This results in a meaningless number for anglers. As an example: The highly touted Orvis and monofilament loop knots are very strong when dry but fall far short of the uni-knot (Duncan knot) after the monofilament becomes wet.    Our strain gauge device (calibrated to .001 lbs) has no opinions and gives us the following results on knots tied with dry monofilament that are then soaked in distilled water for 45 minutes at room temp. The following percentages are the average of 20 knots tied from three different spools of factory fresh 3x Dai Rikki Velvet. Velvet was used because it has the most consistant breaking factor of any tippet material we have tested.    Loop Knots:    Bimini-100 percent, Uni knot- 96 percent, Monofilament loop- 87 percent, Perfection- 85 percent, 2X surgeons- 68 percent, 4X surgeons- 68 percent, 6X surgeons-81 percent, 7X surgeons-73 percent.    FYI: the best tippet to fly loop is the Uni knot at 96 percent.         the best tippet to fly non-loop is the Trilene knot at 100 percent.         the best mono to mono connection is the 6x blood knot at 68 percent.         the despised wind knot tests at a relatively strong 87 percent.   -Ralph

DEAR RALPH:  I disagree with the majority of your tests.  Are you just using a regular pull scales or what?  And the Dai Rikki comment I also don’t agree solidly with, but I don’t want to argue this with you because I don’t know what your controls are and the fact the IGFA specifies along with a breaking +/- % centage that there are more than one mono product(s) that breaks EXACTLY where they should and at EXACTLY the same breaking points in percentages in order to set "World Recognized IGFA Records".  MAXIMA is one such product along with Andre, Trileen, etc.  This is what makes your "most consistant comment" void (or dubious)and really, frankly biased in the face of real (already established) scientific facts compared to our and other scientific laboratory tests which have been conducted by major monofiliment companies.  Yet, I am pleased you are getting into this field and that your interests are so strong.  I hope you continue it, but I think you should ‘rethink’ your approach and possibly revisit your testing equipment and/or procedures.  Test should be run both dry and wet and off the same spool stock or batch.  Etc, etc.  But I find serious disagreement with your percentages.  Our recent tests with Knot-Perfect Knot Lube certainly changes the entire realm of how knots should behave and function.  For true uniformity, this product will definately change test results . . . and all "CONSISTANTLY for the Better".  I will send you some for your testing as a sponsor and supporter in your work, if you like.  Just need a mailing address Ralph.   Mr. G.

Response:

Hi George-  Your letter is responding to Ralph H, not me, Ralph Cutter. Non-the-less I found your post amusing, and left me with a few questions: This is why I always fish with Maxima because I have a lifetime of fishing experience with this ONE BRAND.  Every knot I tie in it is known. . . Now, this statement is about as bold as you can do, but lets face it.  I know what the hell I’m doing. . .  It means consistant breaking

or parting percentages every time.    I’m curious as to why you chose Maxima. Of ALL the lines we have tested it is the most inconsistent. The diameter, color and strength vary greatly from spool to spool and we’ve noted up to .02 differences in the same spool. This is an observation made by several different line testers.   Maxima is an old product. Over the past decade Polymer technologies have advanced almost as fast as computers. My old Kaypro was fine in its time, but in the case of plastics and computers newer is better. A breaking scale does not a scientist make.  

   That is why we employed a polymer chemist to help us with our testing parameters. Much of the actual testing was done by an engineer with thirty years of stress analysis at Lockheed and Kaiser. I also know that there are much more consistant breaking and more reliable tippet materials than those bragged about.

Please share these with us. I was also amused by your previous post stating saying your knot glue was a new and revoltionary concept that could change the face of flyfishing. Forty years ago Herter’s sold a glue that was guaranteed to make monolfilament knots 100 percent. When nylon was introduced, many knot glue products were sold to help people with this new slippery material. A good product probably; revolutionary, hardly. I agree fully with the concept of your glue. ZAP A GAP and PVC cement do the same. Ralph and Lisa Cutter. California School of Flyfishing http:www/flyline.com  /v/                             /v/

Response:

If Tony and Spinolio got married they’d have offspring named Toniolio.

Easy for you, Tim to ponder Tony’s mating habits when your mouth has obviously been surgically attached to his fat ass <G. For the record, I have a tube of George’s knot-goop *and* I agree with Tony…noone I know would fool with it astream…a little spit-tle do ya…it snot that big of thing…

For the record I *don’t* have a tube and would never buy one (come fishing with me, Tim, and you’ll see how I tie knots). My post was in response to Gades telling George to stop posting, as if this were something Gades has the power to do. (Note to Gades: I got your big, bad hate mail, just as other people warned me I would. Apparently you’re becoming famous for this sort of thing. Very scary, but don’t flatter yourself…I would never actually email you).   No good will become the fellow that needs lubricant to tie a knot.

Don’t look at me, you’re the one who bought it. Spinolio

Response:

Hi Rick-   The Orvis Knot and the Mono loop knot tested virtually the same. E mail me your postal address and I’ll send you more data.   -Ralph

Ralph, I notice you have a web site. Maybe you could put your results up there (so you don’t have dozens of us requesting copies in the mail). Thanks for the informative posts. Jim Ralph and Lisa Cutter. California School of Flyfishing http:www/flyline.com /v/                            /v/

– Opinions expressed are my own, and not those of my employer.

Response:

  If they’re knot tests, then what are they ? Must be naught tests. Anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me.

Great .sig file Anglerboy !.  You gotta love it… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

It is extremely easy to see why you, based on your cumulative "contibutions" to date, would be intimidated by posts that demonstrate an active thought process.

Let me know when you come up with one. As for the streamside choice, I applaud your choosing knot-goop.

I would only choose a tube of knot-goop over your company… better conversation. It is consistent with the fact that you don’t actually fish.

Yeesh… ya really got me with that one, Tony. Same to you, only double! Ha! I’ve been to your masturbatory web site… are you the fat, ugly cosksucker holding the dead fish or is that your Orvis-endorsed guide. Spinolio

Response:

If they’re knot tests, then what are they ? TimW Halfordian Golfer

As you can tell from the way these threads are unspooling, the answer to that question is still tied up in debate.  If I understand these tests correctly, we should all start using distilled water and George’s goop — they’ll make our knots so strong we’ll be uprooting trees every time we try to yank a fly free from a limb. John

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   (much blather snipped)   Please don’t waste our time by quoting the results of some knot test   that used your knot-liquid.  It is of no use since nobody I know would   bother with such a product streamside.   Considering the pompous and snotty nature of your posts, Tony, I can’t   imagine anyone I know bothering with such a product as *you*, streamside   or otherwise. Faced with a choice, George’s knot-goop wins hands down.   Spinolio It is extremely easy to see why you, based on your cumulative "contibutions" to date, would be intimidated by posts that demonstrate an active thought process.

.. hmmm sounds interesting Mr Gades. Based on your CV (checked out that web site you advertise) this is something you know a thing or two about. Sometime maybe you’ll take a break from being crabby and give us a demo! 8^) Ralph H (just a simple dip shit) " … the sabbath rang slowly in the pebbles of the holy streams!" Dylan Thomas, "Fern Hill" " One man free to love his minute   in the realms of flesh and sun   breaks down more pain than ages   of humane law or lawyers can." Leonard Cohen, " Crying, Come Back, Hero"

Response:

Hi Jon-   We found that as monofilament soaks up water it becomes increasingly vulnerable to cutting itself with tight radius knots (mono loop and wind knots). Clinching type knots (Uni-knot) actually often became a bit stronger, possibly because the swelling of the monofilament created a tighter grip.    When developing testing parameters we put knotted lines in water and tested knots at 5 minute intervals. After about 30 minutes the changes were no longer noticable. For the hell of it we let the lines soak for an additional 15 minutes simply to be sure they were soaked to capacity.    The IGFA also soaks lines before subjecting them to class rating tests.    -Ralph Ralph, I am curious why you use 45 min. soaking. I can see wetting having one or more of several effects. 1) just surface coating which may affect surface tension or lubricity of the knots in some way and possibly affecting cinching or stress production in the knot and 2) interaction with the plastic polymer which would imply some sort of penetration into the plastic and a change of its physical characteristics. #1 would happen immediately upon wetting and #2 may be time-dependent based on the permeability of the plastic. A grey-zone might occur if #1 was the main effect but the water required time to penetrate the knot. It would be easy to test by looking at change in breaking strength over time of a wet strand in the absence of a knot. Any comments? Just curious. Jon

Ralph and Lisa Cutter. California School of Flyfishing http:www/flyline.com  /v/                             /v/

Response:

  If they’re knot tests, then what are they ? Must be naught tests. Anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (much blather snipped) Please don’t waste our time by quoting the results of some knot test that used your knot-liquid.  It is of no use since nobody I know would bother with such a product streamside. Considering the pompous and snotty nature of your posts, Tony, I can’t imagine anyone I know bothering with such a product as *you*, streamside or otherwise. Faced with a choice, George’s knot-goop wins hands down. Spinolio Right on! It’s about time somebody called-out this Gades character. I’ve yet to read a post where he didn’t come off as being pompous and rude.

If Tony and Spinolio got married they’d have offspring named Toniolio. Whydoncha relax a notch swatson ? For the record, I have a tube of George’s knot-goop *and* I agree with Tony…noone I know would fool with it astream…a little spit-tle do ya…it snot that big of thing… No good will become the fellow that needs lubricant to tie a knot. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

(much blather snipped) Please don’t waste our time by quoting the results of some knot test that used your knot-liquid.  It is of no use since nobody I know would bother with such a product streamside. Considering the pompous and snotty nature of your posts, Tony, I can’t imagine anyone I know bothering with such a product as *you*, streamside or otherwise. Faced with a choice, George’s knot-goop wins hands down. Spinolio

Right on! It’s about time somebody called-out this Gades character. I’ve yet to read a post where he didn’t come off as being pompous and rude.

Response:

Hi Rick-    The Orvis Knot and the Mono loop knot tested virtually the same. E mail me your postal address and I’ll send you more data.    -Ralph – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great post!!   I was wondering, you mention that the Orvis knot was "far short of the Uni-knot" but you didn’t give a percentage.  I tend to like the Orvis knot because of it’s ease in tying and the thought that it was so strong. Also, I think a comparision of Wet to Dry Knot strenths would be very interesting.  Do you have that kind of data?   I have never considered the Duncan Loop to be a very strong knot but your data does not support this idea. Once agin, thanks for the information and keep up the good work. Rick Richard Padgett

Ralph and Lisa Cutter. California School of Flyfishing http:www/flyline.com  /v/                             /v/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   Organization: Gehrke’s Gink/Xink Fly Fishing Products Company   DEAR RALPH:  I disagree with the majority of your tests.   Mr. G. Mr. Cutter clearly laid out the results of clearly explained experiments. There is nothing to "disagree" with unless you are claiming that he lied. , While I found the info interesting it has to be noted that no experiment is valid beyond the parameters of it’s design. For example who fishes in distilled water? Who soaks their leader in water for 45 minutes and why was that time period chosen (was it chosen arbitrarily?) Leaders are in the water usually for no more than a few minutes and then dried – at least partially – by casting. Do we know the extent of saturation of a typical leader on an average day? What was the precise breaking strain of the mono before the knot was tied? What was the breaking strain of the knot? what was the degree of confidence in the test? None the less the relative breaking strains of the knots are informative. AND! George seems to have thrown down a gauntlet regarding the effectiveness of his knot goop. I for one would be fascinated by an independent before and after sort of comparison. Ralph H (just a simple dipshit 8^) ) "…      the sabbath rang slowly      in the pebbles of the holy streams!" Dylan Thomas, "Fern Hill"

RALPH, you are not a dipshit.  Christ.  Loosen up.  What you should do is reread every sentence in my answer carefully without putting words in my mouth.  Re-review the part about the IGFA and think a bit.  What I say is based on sound facts.  If you want to call someone a liar, than you should but don’t count me in on your train-of-logic because it is also incorrect.  As far as challenges are concerned regarding KNOT-PERFECT, I will say this Ralph.  I will challenge anyone in the world not to agree that Knot-Perfect, (WATCH MY WORDS!) will make any brand of tippet/leader material (KNOT FOR KNOT) a more consistant breaking knot for THAT MATERIAL.  Understand? For instance, a batch or spool of 2# test may break variously with ONE KNOT but once you use KNOT-PERFECT on that same knot each time its tied, that knot will break more consistantly AT THE SAME POUNDAGE than with any other product in the world. What this means Ralph is this.  You can train yourself with two pound test and with the same brand of mono used every time to sense or KNOW how hard to fight and pull on a fish before that brand and knot will break.  This comes with experience.  It is not learned over-night. This is why I always fish with Maxima because I have a lifetime of fishing experience with this ONE BRAND.  Every knot I tie in it is known.  A blood knot will break at a different percentage than another. Etc.  However, my friend; there are things that KNOT-PERFECT does inside a knot and too the monofiliment that no other product in the world can do.  Now, this statement is about as bold as you can do, but lets face it.  I know what the hell I’m doing.  I haven’t spend years in my chemistry lab just swatting flies on the walls.  The point is, KNOT-PERFECT takes fishermen in all catagories that are knot-perfect and makes them (you guessed it) PERFECT!  The knots aren’t burnt.  The knots are no longer chaffed or cracked under pressure, and every knot squeezes down (for THAT PARTICULAR KNOT) around where the main tippet stem enters the knot EXACTLY THE SAME AND UNDER THE SAME PRESSURE TIME AND TIME AGAIN.  This means what?  It means consistant breaking or parting percentages every time. So, if you are tying a blood-knot all the time, for each poundage at its weakest point . . . you have dialed in a confidence level never before dreamed or possible before.  A 2.1 # test tippet in a blood-knot will break (for example) at exactly 1.9 LBS. time and time again, without exception.  This has never been possible before in the entire history of fishing.  Any kind of fishing, Ralph. A breaking scale does not a scientist make.  I still do not know what kind of scales are used or the testing parimeters.  In fact, none of us do.  The variables are massive from what we read compared to our lab tests.  I still will not compound an arguement or difference of opinion but what I am saying is that the test results posted are ‘very general.’ They are general because you do not know the material diameters, the length of the male verses the female side or; the cope vs the drag side or put another way, the length of the bottom tippet verses the top? Were identical diameters used or was a two pound test tippet attached to a four pound test piece?  I also know that there are much more consistant breaking and more reliable tippet materials than those bragged about.  And I mean, by a long shot, Ralph. And no.  I don’t know everything.  I’m no smart-ass, but I’m not stupid either.  I’ve done a lot of research work in this industry Ralph and I’m not here belittle anyone.  But I am here to freely disagree when I know I’m right. I’ll leave it at that and you all can have this thread.  I’m sorry I butted in where I wasn’t wanted. Have a nice season. Mr. G. POST SCRIPT:  I was just asked what I use all the time and of course it is Maxima.  I cannot stand tippet material that snake and curl up like D.Reek/etc. does once you catch a fish and stretch it.  No Sir.  Maxima doesn’t do this and I do not like hard, slick surfaced tippet material for much the same reasons.  When I die and they bury me, they can put a spool of Maxima in my shirt pocket so I won’t run out of it in heaven. Everyone.

Response:

If they’re knot tests, then what are they ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   Organization: Gehrke’s Gink/Xink Fly Fishing Products Company   DEAR RALPH:  I disagree with the majority of your tests.   Mr. G. Mr. Cutter clearly laid out the results of clearly explained experiments. There is nothing to "disagree" with unless you are claiming that he lied. ,

While I found the info interesting it has to be noted that no experiment is valid beyond the parameters of it’s design. For example who fishes in distilled water? Who soaks their leader in water for 45 minutes and why was that time period chosen (was it chosen arbitrarily?) Leaders are in the water usually for no more than a few minutes and then dried – at least partially – by casting. Do we know the extent of saturation of a typical leader on an average day? What was the precise breaking strain of the mono before the knot was tied? What was the breaking strain of the knot? what was the degree of confidence in the test? None the less the relative breaking strains of the knots are informative. AND! George seems to have thrown down a gauntlet regarding the effectiveness of his knot goop. I for one would be fascinated by an independent before and after sort of comparison. Ralph H (just a simple dipshit 8^) ) "…      the sabbath rang slowly      in the pebbles of the holy streams!" Dylan Thomas, "Fern Hill"

Response:

   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    (much blather snipped)     Please don’t waste our time by quoting the results of some knot test     that used your knot-liquid.  It is of no use since nobody I know would     bother with such a product streamside.    Considering the pompous and snotty nature of your posts, Tony, I can’t    imagine anyone I know bothering with such a product as *you*, streamside    or otherwise. Faced with a choice, George’s knot-goop wins hands down.    Spinolio It is extremely easy to see why you, based on your cumulative "contibutions" to date, would be intimidated by posts that demonstrate an active thought process. As for the streamside choice, I applaud your choosing knot-goop.  It is consistent with the fact that you don’t actually fish. _pompously_ yours,         -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

Response:

example: The highly touted Orvis and monofilament loop knots are very strong when dry but fall far short of the uni-knot (Duncan knot) after the monofilament becomes wet.

Great post!!   I was wondering, you mention that the Orvis knot was "far short of the Uni-knot" but you didn’t give a percentage.  I tend to like the Orvis knot because of it’s ease in tying and the thought that it was so strong. Also, I think a comparision of Wet to Dry Knot strenths would be very interesting.  Do you have that kind of data?   I have never considered the Duncan Loop to be a very strong knot but your data does not support this idea. Once agin, thanks for the information and keep up the good work. Rick Richard Padgett

Response:

(much blather snipped) Please don’t waste our time by quoting the results of some knot test that used your knot-liquid.  It is of no use since nobody I know would bother with such a product streamside.

Considering the pompous and snotty nature of your posts, Tony, I can’t imagine anyone I know bothering with such a product as *you*, streamside or otherwise. Faced with a choice, George’s knot-goop wins hands down. Spinolio

Response:

..snip…. Our strain gauge device (calibrated to .001 lbs) has no opinions and gives us the following results on knots tied with dry monofilament that are then soaked in distilled water for 45 minutes at room temp.

…snip… Ralph, I am curious why you use 45 min. soaking. I can see wetting having one or more of several effects. 1) just surface coating which may affect surface tension or lubricity of the knots in some way and possibly affecting cinching or stress production in the knot and 2) interaction with the plastic polymer which would imply some sort of penetration into the plastic and a change of its physical characteristics. #1 would happen immediately upon wetting and #2 may be time-dependent based on the permeability of the plastic. A grey-zone might occur if #1 was the main effect but the water required time to penetrate the knot. It would be easy to test by looking at change in breaking strength over time of a wet strand in the absence of a knot. Any comments? Just curious. Jon

Response:

  Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   Organization: Gehrke’s Gink/Xink Fly Fishing Products Company   DEAR RALPH:  I disagree with the majority of your tests.   Mr. G.

Mr. Cutter clearly laid out the results of clearly explained experiments. There is nothing to "disagree" with unless you are claiming that he lied. Quote another test, its methods and results, and to make it useful to us, skip using that knot-goop because nobody is going to bother using such a product in the real world. A trilene knot (which I primarily use) has been shown repeatedly to have a breaking strength of 100%.  The 6x blood knot ranks in around 70%.  The perfection loop ranks in around 90-100%.  These results I’ve seen repeatedly.  These are the same results found by Mr. Cutter. I see no reason to disagree. Please don’t waste our time by quoting the results of some knot test that used your knot-liquid.  It is of no use since nobody I know would bother with such a product streamside. cheers,         -tony — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Larry-    Most knot strength tests are done with dry monofilament that is tied and tested while dry. This results in a meaningless number for anglers. As an example: The highly touted Orvis and monofilament loop knots are very strong when dry but fall far short of the uni-knot (Duncan knot) after the monofilament becomes wet.    Our strain gauge device (calibrated to .001 lbs) has no opinions and gives us the following results on knots tied with dry monofilament that are then soaked in distilled water for 45 minutes at room temp. The following percentages are the average of 20 knots tied from three different spools of factory fresh 3x Dai Rikki Velvet. Velvet was used because it has the most consistant breaking factor of any tippet material we have tested.    Loop Knots:    Bimini-100 percent, Uni knot- 96 percent, Monofilament loop- 87 percent, Perfection- 85 percent, 2X surgeons- 68 percent, 4X surgeons- 68 percent, 6X surgeons-81 percent, 7X surgeons-73 percent.    FYI: the best tippet to fly loop is the Uni knot at 96 percent.         the best tippet to fly non-loop is the Trilene knot at 100 percent.         the best mono to mono connection is the 6x blood knot at 68 percent.         the despised wind knot tests at a relatively strong 87 percent.

But of course.  This is the one I tie best.  Hey, if you have good eyes, they also make a half-way decent strike indicator!  :-)   -Ralph

Cheers, and tight lines. -Mark PS:  ’Love your book, Ralph.  It should be required reading for Sierra trout anglers.  Keep up the good work.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mr. Cutter clearly laid out the results of clearly explained experiments. There is nothing to "disagree" with unless you are claiming that he While I found the info interesting it has to be noted that no experiment is valid beyond the parameters of it’s design. For example who fishes in distilled water? Who soaks their leader in water for 45 minutes and why was that time period chosen (was it chosen arbitrarily?) Leaders are in the water usually for no more than a few minutes and then dried,at least partially by casting. Do we know the extent of saturation of a typical leader on an average day? What was the precise breaking strain of the mono before the knot was tied? What was the breaking strain of the knot? what was the degree of confidence in the test?

Hey dip…., You bring up some very valid points.  I don’t think the soaking time is important as long as the interval is consistant – the main thing is the line was wet (something I didn’t do when I performed a series of breaking tests). None the less the relative breaking strains of the knots are informative.

Yep, on a relative basis it is good information to know.  Regardless of what knot you use, I find one of the most important things is to make sure the knot is snugged up tight to prevent it from cutting into its’ self and breaking. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley         2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

Response:

Hi Larry-    Most knot strength tests are done with dry monofilament that is tied and tested while dry. This results in a meaningless number for anglers. As an example: The highly touted Orvis and monofilament loop knots are very strong when dry but fall far short of the uni-knot (Duncan knot) after the monofilament becomes wet.    Our strain gauge device (calibrated to .001 lbs) has no opinions and gives us the following results on knots tied with dry monofilament that are then soaked in distilled water for 45 minutes at room temp. The following percentages are the average of 20 knots tied from three different spools of factory fresh 3x Dai Rikki Velvet. Velvet was used because it has the most consistant breaking factor of any tippet material we have tested.    Loop Knots:    Bimini-100 percent, Uni knot- 96 percent, Monofilament loop- 87 percent, Perfection- 85 percent, 2X surgeons- 68 percent, 4X surgeons- 68 percent, 6X surgeons-81 percent, 7X surgeons-73 percent.    FYI: the best tippet to fly loop is the Uni knot at 96 percent.         the best tippet to fly non-loop is the Trilene knot at 100 percent.         the best mono to mono connection is the 6x blood knot at 68 percent.         the despised wind knot tests at a relatively strong 87 percent.   -Ralph

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Question:

Check out the area around Tofino – most especially Meares Island – you can catch a ride out to Meares’ Island for not much money and there is a *fabulous* rain forest with almost no people out there. — gene levine http://world.std.com/~elevine/

Response:

: If you have been to Vancouver and Victoria, British Columbia and have : any specific information about hikes in the area I would like to hear : from you.  I am thinking of visiting in the fall or late summer and : am interested in doind some solo hiking. Thanks. Patrick. Patrick – I live in Victoria, and while not a hicker per se (more a fish in remote lakes/rivers chap) I might be able to help. What specific types of hiking were you thinking about, in terms of length of trip, terrain, and so on? I presume you’ve already perused the material available on the West Coast Trail…

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        World Wide Books and Maps         736A Granville Steet         Vancouver, B.C. V6Z 1G3         (604) 687-3320 published by Outdoor recreation Council Also ask about 3 books: 104 Walks, 105 Hikes, and Hiking Guide to the Big Trees

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you have been to Vancouver and Victoria, British Columbia and have any specific information about hikes in the area I would like to hear from you.  I am thinking of visiting in the fall or late summer and am interested in doind some solo hiking. Thanks. Patrick.           We were there last sept and decided next time out we would attempt the west coast trail. it starts in Port Renfrew (take 14 out of victoria as far as you can go) on the S. side and is about a weeks hike w/ bridges, ladders etc. only a certain amt. of people allowed on               N. Vancouver, B.C. V7G 1L3     hope you have fun Charlie and Jen

The West Coast trail is one of BC’s best known and busiest hiking routes.  I highly recommend it.   Around Victoria for a good day Hike, try the East Sook Trail, its along the west coast just north of Victoria and you’l see scenery much like the trail furhter north.  If you cant get on the west coast traIL, they have opened a new trail along the coast that is south of the west coast trail.  Its a nice area, but wont be as remote as the west coast trail as there is access off of the highway.   Around Vancouver, I would recomend Garibaldi park, the trials around Black tusk, Golden Ears Park or the Howe Sound Crest trail.  Any of these can be done in part as a day hike or you could make a weekend of it.  Garibaldi is probably the nicest of them.  These hikes all go into the alpine region, so they wont really be free of snow until May/June.  I remember going to garibaldi years ago in May thinking it would be a good time for alpine flowers.  Found about 16 feet of smow in the apline medows instead. All this trips are discussed in various hiking trails  and day hikes books.   I’m sure Tourism BC can help you with that & they have a 800 number you can get from directory service (800 555 1212) If you want something a little more rugged, I recomend the Mackenzie trial or Carrier trail or Grease route.  All different names for the overland route from the Fraser river near Quesnel to Bella Coola on the coast.  its about 300 to 350 kilometers, depending where you start from.  My wife & I did bout 300 kilometers of it last summer in 15 days.  You have to get a couple of food drops flown in in advance.  There is a few fly in fishing camps along the first half of the trail.  The last half is truly remote.  We went for 8 days without seeing another person.  Only about 10 – 20 hikers do it a year. I’d be happy to supply more details if anyone is intersted.

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If you have been to Vancouver and Victoria, British Columbia and have any specific information about hikes in the area I would like to hear from you.  I am thinking of visiting in the fall or late summer and am interested in doind some solo hiking. Thanks. Patrick.

           We were there last sept and decided next time out we would attempt the west coast trail. it starts in Port Renfrew (take 14 out of victoria as far as you can go) on the S. side and is about a weeks hike w/ bridges, ladders etc. only a certain amt. of people allowed on                N. Vancouver, B.C. V7G 1L3      hope you have fun Charlie and Jen

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Question:

What to charge for private tying lessons? I have two questions for any fly tying instructors who care to reply. I have been teaching fly tying at a local shop for the past 3 years and I recently was asked to do some private one-on-one lessons. question #1: My friends tell me I do not charge enough for my instruction. What do you charge a beginner for 1.5 hours of instruction. question #2: what would you charge if your student was selling flies to a mail-order company. If you prefer not to reply to the newsgroup, thanks todd seigfried

Response:

What to charge for private tying lessons?

[snip] If you prefer not to reply to the newsgroup,

I would appreciate it if any responders would post the answer here!   Would like to know the answer also.

Response:

question #1: My friends tell me I do not charge enough for my instruction. What do you charge a beginner for 1.5 hours of instruction.

I’m an instructor here in the Chicago area, and the students pay 75.00 for a two-day (total of six hours) seminar.  That’s 12.50 per hour (payed to the fly-shop) but it’s in groups of from four to seven people.  For private lessons I would charge 25.00 per hour. Jack

Response:

Hi Todd, My wife and I make our living as commercial fly tiers in the winter and guides in the summer.  Our price for teaching fly tying PERIOD… is $25.00 per hour, no matter the size of the class or the number of students.  It could be one person or twelve (our maximum). If I had a student who was selling flies to some one else, you ask, "What would I do?" I would try to hire him! Take care!  Good Tying & Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT I have two questions for any fly tying instructors who care to reply. I have been teaching fly tying at a local shop for the past 3 years and I recently was asked to do some private one-on-one lessons.

Please check the message above!  Take Care! Al Beatty

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I think that if you were on a limited budget, like you were in graduate school, you could have everyone chip in a dime per fly to cover the cost of the materials.          Jeff Schaeffer

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