Question:

The last time I fished, I noticed an slight abrasive-type sound as I let line through the guides during a cast. What’s the best treatment for fly line? How often do you clean and treat the line?

What Willi said. Works for me. George Adams "All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of youth that doth not grow stale with age."                                                           —- J.W Muller

Response:

Chances are your guides are worn out.  You probably have "flats" worn on the inside diameter of your snake guides.  Use a magnifying glass to see if you have worn out the inside of the guides as when you have flats you end up with very SHARP edges, which shave your fly line when you shoot the line. This shaves your fly line and in effect, destroys it.  Look also at the Tip-Top guide as this is the one which your fly line creases over 90* and does a lot of damage.  I suspect your fly rod needs reguiding. A quality line dressing will help and if you wish, you can visit the blue thingie enclosed in the sign off. Good Luck Tim, but I bet you’re going to need a new fly line also.  Hope not, but what you describe doesn’t sound very cool. Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/GG-Products-StreamSide-PZ-LineCleaner.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The last time I fished, I noticed an slight abrasive-type sound as I let line through the guides during a cast. What’s the best treatment for fly line? How often do you clean and treat the line? — TL, Tim

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162575.news.dfncis.de: The last time I fished, I noticed an slight abrasive-type sound as I let line through the guides during a cast. What’s the best treatment for fly line? How often do you clean and treat the line? and add to that, does anyone ever treat the <guides? riverman

If I’ve had a good day, I’ll buy em a beer — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

       The last time I fished, I noticed an slight abrasive-type sound as I let    line through the guides during a cast. What’s the best treatment for fly    line? How often do you clean and treat the line?             and add to that, does anyone ever treat the <guides?         riverman         How often you clean a fly line has alot to do with where you fish. Some waters, although they might look crystalline, tend to get a line dirty in short order. The composition of the banks also plays a part. If my line starts sinking when fishing, I generally just pull it through a piece of chammy. For a good cleaning, I first wash the line in warm water then use a line cleaner. I’ve used a number of different brands and have no preference. I occasionally give my rods a coat of car wax and in the process, the guides do get a coat of wax. It does seem to help shooting line but only for a very short time. It does help protect the rod and helps shed water. Willi

Response:

The last time I fished, I noticed an slight abrasive-type sound as I let line through the guides during a cast. What’s the best treatment for fly line? How often do you clean and treat the line? and add to that, does anyone ever treat the <guides? riverman

I generally clean and condition my line after ~20 hours of use.  I use mild soap for the cleaning, and a conditioner produced by Scientific Angler.  As for the guides, I coat them with a thin film (just enought to leave a fingerprint when touched) of Super Lube (a silicon based gel lubricant with teflon) once a month.  AFter applying the Super Lube I wipe any excess off the exterior of the guide loop (since this is only needed on the inside of the guide) in order to keep the inside of my rod tube clean. Using the above methods, I’ve noticed increased shooting distances, improved line floatation, and greatly extended line life.

Response:

The last time I fished, I noticed an slight abrasive-type sound as I let line through the guides during a cast. What’s the best treatment for fly line? How often do you clean and treat the line? — TL, Tim

Response:

The last time I fished, I noticed an slight abrasive-type sound as I let line through the guides during a cast. What’s the best treatment for fly line? How often do you clean and treat the line?

and add to that, does anyone ever treat the <guides? riverman

Response:

Question:

Depends on where you live … I suggest Hebeisen in Downtown Switzerland – i. e. Zurich – or Bernhard in Wichtrach. Toni Linder

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, As a beginner, I’d like to join a fly fishing class this spring in Switzerland. Does anybody know where to go best? Thanks Roger

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Hi, As a beginner, I’d like to join a fly fishing class this spring in Switzerland. Does anybody know where to go best? Thanks Roger

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http://fff-e.tripod.com/addresses.htm This will give you all the FFF instructors in Switzerland. TL MC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, As a beginner, I’d like to join a fly fishing class this spring in Switzerland. Does anybody know where to go best? Thanks Roger

Response:

Thanks Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://fff-e.tripod.com/addresses.htm This will give you all the FFF instructors in Switzerland. TL MC Hi, As a beginner, I’d like to join a fly fishing class this spring in Switzerland. Does anybody know where to go best? Thanks Roger

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Question:

The reason people fish varies from person to person and also seems to change over time. I know it has for me. When I was younger, I used to fish with an intensity that shut out everything around me in my quest to get just one more fish. Very goal oriented. Over time, I’ve become much more relaxed, especially on my home waters. I spend much of my time walking and observing, seeking a small piece of harmony with the nature world to replace the separation that is forced upon us by our overly busy modern lives. The splash of a trout chasing a caddis. The rich aroma of pine. The warmth of the sun on cool morning. The greenness of a forest in early Spring. The pungent taste of a wild raspberry.   Simple pleasures for a simple man. Willi "the crybaby" Loehman

Response:

You get no points for catching me in a spelling error ( as noted here somewhere english is a third language for engineers ).   It’s getting bad so I may have to use Word for email.  I don’t understand the Tiger reference. I was in North Carolina once driving from Ft Rucker to DC in 1967.  Nothing wrong with it but time and fate have conspired to keep from ever going back. Still time and who knows. BJC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – people ( if you want to include polititions as people ).    hope i don’t appear to be a spelling cop, but shouldn’t that be "politishuns"?    incidentally, bjc, was that you in the tiger mascot suit at this year’s unc-clemson game?    wayno

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people ( if you want to include polititions as people ).

    hope i don’t appear to be a spelling cop, but shouldn’t that be "politishuns"?     incidentally, bjc, was that you in the tiger mascot suit at this year’s unc-clemson game?     wayno

Response:

just love a guy who fishes.  My extensive fan club and appearances in leading fashion magazines is testament to that.\ Seriously. The bitches dig it.

Where the F*** is Forty when you need him? Put down the chainsaw and listen to me. It’s time for us to join in the fight.

Response:

Good post,  Good to see roff getting back to ideas and less about events and people ( if you want to include polititions as people ). The older I get the more I remember the line " God does not subtract from your alotted time on earth those hours spent fishing"  ( Idon’t know the source).  Any way I am trying to make up for lost time now.  I cant on one hand the sermons I have heard that did me more good than a Sunday morning on a good stream. BJC

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi "the crybaby" Loehman

Response:

Thanks for the post Willi. I think that the fact FF provides me with so many alternative ways to spend time while still FFing is part of the draw. Sometimes I have to remember to continue fishing before my time in the woods is gone for the day. Danl

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The reason people fish varies from person to person and also seems to change over time. I know it has for me. When I was younger, I used to fish with an intensity that shut out everything around me in my quest to get just one more fish. Very goal oriented. Over time, I’ve become much more relaxed, especially on my home waters. I spend much of my time walking and observing, seeking a small piece of harmony with the nature world to replace the separation that is forced upon us by our overly busy modern lives. The splash of a trout chasing a caddis. The rich aroma of pine. The warmth of the sun on cool morning. The greenness of a forest in early Spring. The pungent taste of a wild raspberry. Simple pleasures for a simple man. Willi "the crybaby" Loehman

Response:

Seriously. The bitches dig it. -Muskie Sick’em #2. I expect he means actual female dogs. What’s the PC thing to call them these days? Neuticle challenged canines?

Charlie, I’m surprised at you. The phrase "neuticle challenged" is a typical oppressive male patriarchical concept, implying that the absence of testicles (or Neuticles, as the case may be) presents a "challenge." All members of ROFF who don’t possess either testicles or neuticles demand an apology. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Charlie, I’m surprised at you. The phrase "neuticle challenged" is a typical oppressive male patriarchical concept, implying that the absence of testicles (or Neuticles, as the case may be) presents a "challenge."

Crap, now I’m going to have to get that taken off all the street and place names around here. — Charlie…

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Seriously. The bitches dig it. Sick’em #2.

What do you want me to do, cough on him ? — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Seriously. The bitches dig it. -Muskie Sick’em #2.

I expect he means actual female dogs. What’s the PC thing to call them these days? Neuticle challenged canines? — Charlie…

Response:

it’s called growing old.  :) Simple pleasures for a simple man. Willi "the crybaby" Loehman I knew I had arrived at that age, one day when fishing the Boyne.

        lovely, ol man; you write even better than you tie streamers and nits.         thanks wayno

Response:

There are lots of good things about *growing* old, but only a few about *being* old (and I can’t remember what any of those are<g).

Well, just consider the alternative. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

There are lots of good things about *growing* old, but only a few about *being* old (and I can’t remember what any of those are<g). Well, just consider the alternative.

*That’s* the one! — Charlie…

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\ Willi, well, I agree with your general ideas here.  Good post. However, doesnt anyone fish anymore for the groupies?  I know that is my main drive.  Chicks just love a guy who fishes.  My extensive fan club and appearances in leading fashion magazines is testament to that.\

Seriously. The bitches dig it. -Muskie

Response:

Seriously. The bitches dig it. -Muskie

Sick’em #2.      - Ken — "The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness.  You have to catch it yourself."      -Ben Franklin

Response:

Nice story Peter,    The Sierra’s are prone to sudden storms like the one you described, that’s why I carry a light weight poncho in my vest.  Sometime the fishing gets better during the storm, but I quit if the lightening starts. ROFF’s Old Fart "Peter Charles" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I knew I had arrived at that age, one day when fishing the Boyne. Overhead the scudding clouds and patchwork sun were telling me that rain and thunder were on the way, but I kept working upstream along the forest floor, seeking little brookies to fall prey to my caddis. The sun was still dappling the streambanks when the first drops began to fall. In less than a minute, a downpour splattered throught the sodden branches and thunder reverberated throughout the forest.  The softened light turned the forest into hues of green beyond count.  The mist that arose from the warm forest floor evoked an older time of spirits and magic.  I stood under some bushes, letting the water cascade off my head and shoulders, gazing out at a  little rainbow arcing over the stream, that the peeking sun had painted on the misty rainfall.  When the thunder shower cleared, I longed for another one. In a little while, Nature obliged me once more. Peter

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it’s called growing old.  :)

There are a FEW good things about it. Willi

Response:

it’s called growing old.  :) There are a FEW good things about it.

There are lots of good things about *growing* old, but only a few about *being* old (and I can’t remember what any of those are<g). — Charlie…

Response:

Are you saying we old farts no longer have sense enough to come in out of the rain? JR

That sorta sums it up – either that, or we’ve learned to take our pleasures where we find them. Peter

Response:

it’s called growing old.  :) Simple pleasures for a simple man. Willi "the crybaby" Loehman

I knew I had arrived at that age, one day when fishing the Boyne. Overhead the scudding clouds and patchwork sun were telling me that rain and thunder were on the way, but I kept working upstream along the forest floor, seeking little brookies to fall prey to my caddis. The sun was still dappling the streambanks when the first drops began to fall. In less than a minute, a downpour splattered throught the sodden branches and thunder reverberated throughout the forest.  The softened light turned the forest into hues of green beyond count.  The mist that arose from the warm forest floor evoked an older time of spirits and magic.  I stood under some bushes, letting the water cascade off my head and shoulders, gazing out at a  little rainbow arcing over the stream, that the peeking sun had painted on the misty rainfall.  When the thunder shower cleared, I longed for another one. In a little while, Nature obliged me once more. Peter

Response:

Are you saying we old farts no longer have sense enough to come in out of the rain? JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it’s called growing old.  :) I knew I had arrived at that age, one day when fishing the Boyne. ..very nice vignette clipped…. When the thunder shower cleared, I longed for another one. In a little while, Nature obliged me once more. Peter

Response:

The reason people fish varies from person to person and also seems to change over time.

[snip] Well said, Willi; but go easy on those wild berries or you might end up with ‘internal rhythms’<g. — Charlie…

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(me, too) However, sometimes (every day i fish) when i’ve promised to be home at a certain time and i’m pushing it, i say to myself "just one more fish and i’ll go." Then, if i catch that fish right away, i KEEP FISHING.  

<some stuff snipped <gYeah, me too. It amazing the deals I make with myself to keep from having to stop fishing.   "OK 5 more casts, and if there are no strikes, then I’m out of here.  What, that was a lousy cast! Tnat doesn’t count….I’m sure I would have had a strike if there was no drag on that drift….Shee-it! I didn’t see that neat little run on the far side of the stream…It’s just this side of that big rock where I absolutely, positively said I’d quit…but there’s a deep pool just on the other side of that rock…and there’s always fish there… And on and on… Thanks for the impressions Willi. Quick trip report: Went wild mushroom hunting yesterday. Got some chanterelles, matsutakes, boletes, lobster mushrooms, corals. Ate some. Survived.

Response:

(me, too) However, sometimes (every day i fish) when i’ve promised to be home at a certain time and i’m pushing it, i say to myself "just one more fish and i’ll go." Then, if i catch that fish right away, i KEEP FISHING.  Invevitably that’s the last fish anyway.  My favorite days are when i catch that last fish, release it, and then put my fly on the keeper and hike back to my truck without another cast.  Better to keep the promises, including the ones you make to yourself. And now back to presidential politics.  Yahoo. bruce h Before you buy.

Response:

Willi, well, I agree with your general ideas here.  Good post. However, doesnt anyone fish anymore for the groupies?  I know that is my main drive.  Chicks just love a guy who fishes.  My extensive fan club and appearances in leading fashion magazines is testament to that. Now then, where is my medication…. ewdin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The reason people fish varies from person to person and also seems to change over time. I know it has for me. When I was younger, I used to fish with an intensity that shut out everything around me in my quest to get just one more fish. Very goal oriented. Over time, I’ve become much more relaxed, especially on my home waters. I spend much of my time walking and observing, seeking a small piece of harmony with the nature world to replace the separation that is forced upon us by our overly busy modern lives. The splash of a trout chasing a caddis. The rich aroma of pine. The warmth of the sun on cool morning. The greenness of a forest in early Spring. The pungent taste of a wild raspberry. Simple pleasures for a simple man. Willi "the crybaby" Loehman

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Question:

Do you know good river like Big Horn? I came from Italy to USA in August for flyfishing holiday. My trip start in Oregon for Wyoming and go-back. I know only the Umpqua and the Deschutes, the Big  Horn and Shoshone Ok for C&R. Thank you for informations Giovanni Bartolozzi  Il Martin Pescatore Mosca Club

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I live in Bend, Oregon.  I can help you with lots of questions on fly fishing in Central Oregon.  I mostly do stillwater fishing. But can get answers to any questions you might have.  chow  gjbend

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Will be in bend 1st week of April. Do you think davis Lake will be accessable and is a float tube adequate?

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I think thats what the rumor is that Davis wood be accessable April 1.  I have my doubts tho.  I fished Fall River Tues. and the parking lot still has 2 feet of snow and had to park on the hwy.  Fall River and Crooked might be an option.  Actually, Chickahomany(sp) should be thawed and  ready too.  Good luck.

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Geeez….would   not wood.  Saw that as I sent.  :(

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How was fall river, BWO’s?

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If the weathers keeps warm you might try BWO.  I used a #20 black midge with cdc wing that worked great. The fish were lightly nibbleing at the surface so just drifted fly about 2 inches below the surface.  If you have ever fished there you know what its like to watch the fish suck up your fly.

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Question:

: : I believe that I’m going to write the bastard single-handedly…with *MY* : slant and post the damned thing twice a week. Yo Tim, maybe my mail bounced when I sent you a reply saying "I’m in". Anyways, the FAQ site still exists at http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~jcook/ROFF The files are now in HTML format, and there is rough content on many topics. RalphH contributed a few early on, I wrote a couple, and I occassionally save someone’s post when it seems useful. IOW, it’s not dead, yet. : THINK MAN !  We could write a really good FAQ…"The Internet Flyfishing : FAQ"… That *should* be our goal, I agree. I encourage all to browse on over and check it out. *And* contribute. JonCook.

Response:

Fly fishing  books are great to read and I do.  However, you cannot learn to fish or fly fish  on the internet.  Get a teacher, go to a Lefty Kreh school, whatever.  You need hands-on experience.  IMHO Lefty Kreh’s method of teaching fly casting is superior.  Not required, just better.

Response:

Anyways, the FAQ site still exists at http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~jcook/ROFF

Jon, I just took a tour of what was there and I must commend you most sincerely on your section on insects.  Extremely well done.  If NOTHING else were added, this would be extremely worthwhile.   And while this has been on a bit of a summer sabatical, I think our fall completion goal is in tact.  YOU da man ! The way you have organized the FAQ is magnificent, I can’t wait to see it more complete.  We (you in particular) can be proud of this effort. Well done. Favor: Would you please post (again) instructions on submitting entries/correction/additions for integration again please. Also…if the FAQ is to be in HTML, can (should) we include images.  I have some original photos of some insects that could possibly augment your text. Also, is the FAQ in ‘one-piece’ ? Can you post it now, in response to A.M. Montano III’s request ? Danged it looks good my friend.  Best FAQ on the net…. Besides, ANYTHING that pisses Powlesland off has merit in its own right ! TimW

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However, you cannot learn to fish or fly fish  on the internet.  Get a teacher, go to a Lefty Kreh school, whatever

no – don’t do that – Lefty holds his hand down on the reel acording to Wayne, and we don’t want to start THAT again.

Response:

: : Favor: : : Would you please post (again) instructions on submitting : entries/correction/additions for integration again please. Ok, now that it is in HTML, I’d say that the best ways are to: 1. select the page you want to change, and save it at your site, as    HTML. 2. Edit it, then email it back to me, indicating which page it is.    Try to keep the format the same — nice and simple. If people want to work on images, or pages with images, that would be cool too. You have to send all the files to me. I guess I have the utils here to handle unzip, gzip, tar, uuencode/decode etc. : Also, is the FAQ in ‘one-piece’ ? Can you post it now, in response to A.M. : Montano III’s request ? It is in multiple HTML files. I think it’ll be too big for one, though I will probably merge some later (I’m not a fan of many small pages). I do have the ability to generate a single text version, and I’ll post it now under a different subject heading. : Best FAQ on the net…. Well, it *will* be! JonCook.

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<snip : THINK MAN !  We could write a really good FAQ…"The Internet Flyfishing : FAQ"… That *should* be our goal, I agree. I encourage all to browse on over and check it out. *And* contribute. JonCook.

OK, Jon, So how does one go about contributing?  It looks as though you’re off to a great start and there are a few of us who feel we can help make this thing really fly. Care to post a set of step by steps? Dennis Haftel

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip : THINK MAN !  We could write a really good FAQ…"The Internet Flyfishing : FAQ"… That *should* be our goal, I agree. I encourage all to browse on over and check it out. *And* contribute. JonCook. OK, Jon, So how does one go about contributing?  It looks as though you’re off to a great start and there are a few of us who feel we can help make this thing really fly. Care to post a set of step by steps? Dennis Haftel

OK, so the face isn’t too red!  I just saw your post with the instructions.  I’ll go crawl back to my tying bench now… Slither….sniff….snerch… Dennis Haftel

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Jonathan Cook wrote Anyways, the FAQ site still exists at http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~jcook/ROFF

I have to admit.  When the idea for the FAQ was first tendered I was pretty skeptical and probably made some disparaging comments for which I now humbly apologize.  Now that you’ve done the work, Jon, the value is obvious. I have some suggestions. 1) if you don’t mind leaving the FAQ in your private website, then it seems there’s no need to publish the FAQ in its entirety to the newsgroup.  I would think a very short "FAQ link message", with a link to your website files, and published often enough as a newsgroup message would be all that is needed to make it obvious to anyone how and where to access the full FAQ. 2) one possible way for people to contribute would be to put HTML articles in their own web pages and then simply publish the link thereto in the appropriate spot in your FAQ.  Of course, many people do not have personal websites, but for those who do, this could save you the work (and website space) you’d incur if you try to incorporate all contributions directly. These links could easily appear as index elements in the index you’ve already established. —                                                       -dnc-

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: Best FAQ on the net…. Well, it *will* be! JonCook.

Sadly, I haven’t got the expierience and the knowledge to contribute, but GO FOR IT. If I could be of any help to you instead, please involve me!!! I think THIS should be supported anyhow !!!! Screaming reels

Response:

The reason I made this suggestion was to lighten the load to be born by the keeper of the website.  You presumably.  I don’t give a whit about proprietary rights.  But if you want to have to touch everything that goes in, fine with me. You might want to consider an interim position where you link to an article so that it becomes immediately available, then import it later when you have time so that it becomes part of the community domain.  Again.  My idea was just to try to save you some time. There’s another idea you might consider also.  Recently I found out that Outdoors Online (www.ool.com) was providing some website hosting for local chapters of the FFF.  I’m not suggesting the FAQ should be allied with FFF, but if you inquire, maybe OO would be willing to host the FAQ website. You’d still be it’s administrator of course, but if you ever wanted to relinquish the responsibility for any reason, the site would be in an established, public location where someone else could easily take over. Again.  Just a suggestion. —                                                       -dnc- : 2) one possible way for people to contribute would be to put HTML articles : in their own web pages and then simply publish the link thereto in the : appropriate spot in your FAQ.

[snipped argument about need for community domain]

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 Of course, you can go down to the flyshop…(hell..what good is the internet  with that thinking ?) and donate proceeds to the owners new drift boat.  The   choice is yours…the information is ours.   —   TimW – Halfordian Golfer

Yeah, terrible idea.  Far better to get anonymous information here from a zillion folks who have never fished a day in their lives. For entertainment value, this group is OK.  For solid information, this forum pretty much fails. If you want good information and active participants, join a listserv. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

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Is there a Flyfishing FAQ?  If so, where can I get a copy? There is no FF FAQ for the same reason there is no baseball FAQ:  there are already 2,000 books on each topic, which means 20 to 200 in your local library.

There is no FAQ, which would singularly and dramatically increase the usability of this group, because we can’t get our collective shit together to write one.   I have lobbied long and hard for it. Jon Cook volunteered an FTP site and organized it as a *group* project.  But, because of incessant whining and negative vibrations, it never happened. I believe that I’m going to write the bastard single-handedly…with *MY* slant and post the damned thing twice a week. (Yes, that is a threat.    8{) ) THINK MAN !  We could write a really good FAQ…"The Internet Flyfishing FAQ"…Publish it….and donate proceeeds to inner city kids fishing programs (or ?). Of course, you can go down to the flyshop…(hell..what good is the internet with that thinking ?) and donate proceeds to the owners new drift boat.  The choice is yours…the information is ours. — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

Response:

Is there a Flyfishing FAQ?  If so, where can I get a copy? Tony Montano

Response:

Is there a Flyfishing FAQ?  If so, where can I get a copy?

There is no FF FAQ for the same reason there is no baseball FAQ:  there are already 2,000 books on each topic, which means 20 to 200 in your local library. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Question:

I am looking at the possibility of starting a fly tying group/club in my area.  Has anyone had any experience with this that could give me some pointers so that I don’t have to reinvent the wheel??  Thanks! Dan

Response:

I am looking at the possibility of starting a fly tying group/club in my area.  Has anyone had any experience with this that could give me some pointers so that I don’t have to reinvent the wheel??  Thanks!

Hi Dan, The Federation of Fly Fishers has a package for starting clubs.  It includes everything from sample by-laws to applying for 501C3 status.   Contact them at 406-585-7592 and ask for their affiliate club package. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

I will be in Vail, CO. 8/3 thru 8/7.  Anyone know of any good FF area’s near Vail.  I will have a rental, so getting around won’t be a problem.  Any pattern’s, techniques, or good guides in the area would be appreciated. Thanks, Vince

I know of two excellent spots. I was there last fall hunting. One is the Blue River from Silverthorne to Green Mountain Res. The level is controlled, and there is a fair amount of access along the stream. The other spot is the Colorado River around the Troublesome Creek area east of Kremmling. I think that would be maybe an hour or so drive (north) from Vail. If you get a chance to fish either place, let me know how you made out. I would appreciate it. I’m going back out next fall for a couple weeks to bowhunt and fly fish. I plan to fish both these areas.   Good Luck !  :-) Jack III ******I feel more like I do now than I did a little while ago******

Response:

I will be in Vail, CO. 8/3 thru 8/7.  Anyone know of any good FF area’s near Vail.  I will have a rental, so getting around won’t be a problem.  Any pattern’s, techniques, or good guides in the area would be appreciated. Thanks, Vince

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Question:

One method that works fairly well is to tie the end of the leader (not tippet) to the center of the piece of yarn using an improved cinch knot.  Then tie the tippet to the leader just above the yarn also using an improved cinch knot.  The  obvious disadvantage to this method is that it’s not very easy to change depths. John Johnson Atlanta, GA

A second disadvantage is that it requires two knots instead of one. Next time I think that I’ll try the simple overhand knot that others have suggested. John Johnson Atlanta, GA

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I am trying to use yarn instead of foam, BioStrike, etc. What is the best knot and method to use to attach the yarn to the leader?

Hi Jay, The question is, do you want effectiveness and are you willing to work for it, or do you want convenience and are willing to settle for not as effective? If you want the most sensitive and best casting system, use a fairly stout leader 2X or 3X  (~6 to 7 1/2 ft. in length) and tie your yarn on to the end with an *improved* clinch knot (the regular clinch knot will slip). Then attach your tippet (depth of the water or slightly longer) to the leader with an improved clinch knot behind the indicator and slide it up against the indicator.  Test the connection (don’t bounce your knots!).   Attach split shot ~6" away from your fly (no closer than 4" and no farther away than 8")   If you keep at least 2 "X" numbers difference between the leader and the tippet size, the break will be at the fly and not at the yarn.  You have to keep adjusting the  length of the tippet as the water depth changes, and that’s a pain.  But, it is deadly.  The stout leader makes casting the indicator much easier and the 90 degree tippet gives you great control over placement.  This is often called "the hinged nymphing system" and was developed by the gentleman I teach fishing schools with, Dean Schubert, and his ex-roomate Dave Hickson.   If you don’t want to go through all these machinations you can tie your yarn on with a clove hitch which will allow you to loosen up the knot and slide the yarn up  or down, and it won’t score the line or weaken it.  It also won’t cast as well and you won’t get the 90 degree hinge that you get with the other system so it won’t be as sensitive and your fly may actually be quite a ways from your indicator (instead of within a 2 ft. circle), but it is more convenient and in fast water it works OK.                                        Good Fishing!                                                Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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I am trying to use yarn instead of foam, BioStrike, etc. What is the best knot and method to use to attach the yarn to the leader? — Jay Thomas

I don’t know what type of water you are fishing but in New Zealand’s North Island, on the larger rivers eg. the Tongariro or Rangitikei, I use a 1" piece of Glo-bug yarn. Soak the yarn in a dry fly floatant and allow to dry. My leader is joined to the fly line by a pair of interlocking loops and the Glo-bug yarn indicator is placed in between the loops before they are pulled up tight. Lime green is easy to see at the change of light and hot pink when the sun is on the water. This indicator does not affect casting but there is some distance between it and the fly. For these waters this distance is not a problem. Jim Learmonth

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While yarn works great for indicating strikes, I find it interferes tremendously with casting. — -Wayne Trzyna

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While yarn works great for indicating strikes, I find it interferes tremendously with casting.

Hi Wayne, Your right if your talking about those golf ball and larger sized sized chunks of yarn that people toss around.  However, if you get the right yarn, you don’t need huge pieces of it and I find it easier to cast than any other indicator I’ve found (so far).  The yarn you want to find comes in your choice of colors and can often be found at macrame shops.  It is a braided polypropylene yarn.  One of the brand names out there is Bonnie Braid, I’m sure there are plenty more. However, all polypropylene yarns are not created equal and different skeins of the same brand and the same color can perform differently.  The type that works best is coarse and shiny.  Not shiny and soft, not coarse and dull, but coarse and shiny.  Get it in a color you like as waterproof markers won’t penetrate the fibers and will wash off quickly.  It usually comes in 50 or 100 yard skeins depending on the thickness of the braid.  I prefer the 100 yard skeins because the braid is smaller and easier to seperate.  Use about 4 strands of the braid, tie it on and comb out the fibers.  Cut to the desired size (dime to quarter size depending on amount of weight used), and treat with paste floatant.   I use the Orvis Hy-flote paste floatant because it liquifies when I rub it between my fingers. Don’t use too thick a paste or it won’t work well.  I’ll then stroke it on the fibers and comb it out again.  If you did it right this should look like a very small open flower floating on the water.  If the flower is tipping forward – your fly is dragging behind it, if it is tilting backwards – it is in front of the indicator.  If it floats straight up, you are getting a very good drift.  If you did it wrong it will look like a dense golf ball or bigger.  Dense doesn’t cast or float as well as the "open flower".  Goldilocks strikes again, not to thick, not too thin, just right!                             Good Fishing,                                   Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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dont

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dont

nonsense. make a standard overhand loop with the yarn inside, breaking strength is 100% of the tippet. The advantage of yarn (you can also use small pieces of etafoam, a few CDC feathers etc.) is that you can adjust the size of the strike indicator and the depth of fishing (in shallower water just move the indicator closer to the fly). An easier strike indicator is Orvis Strike Putty, a resin you can mold to any shape and you can us as much as you really need (from very small for midge fishing in shallow water to really big to fish a deep run with a stonefly, highly visible colors and even night glowing!).       If this was your question…                                       Thomas

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I am trying to use yarn instead of foam, BioStrike, etc. What is the best knot and method to use to attach the yarn to the leader? — Jay Thomas

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Tie a slip-knot in the leader. Insert yarn and pull tight. Trim yarn to size and apply a small amount of floatant. This has worked for me for years. It is also easy to adjust the fly depth and has minimal effect on the leader stregth. Good luck. Jack

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Path: news.itd.umich.edu!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!realti me.net !news.mindspring.com!jpthomas.mindspring.com!user Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 6 NNTP-Posting-Host: jpthomas.mindspring.com X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.1.8 I am trying to use yarn instead of foam, BioStrike, etc. What is the best knot and method to use to attach the yarn to the leader? — Jay Thomas

Try a knittingneedle knot.

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I am trying to use yarn instead of foam, BioStrike, etc. What is the best knot and method to use to attach the yarn to the leader? — Jay Thomas

Jay, Around here we tie an overhand knot at the area where you want the indicator to be, but leave it loose. Then put the yarn in the knot an tighten it. This way it is easy to backl the knot off and roll it to a different spot depending on how deep the water is. It won’t be a weak link since it is way up the leader where it is thick anyway. Martin Allen

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Tie a slip-knot in the leader. Insert yarn and pull tight. Trim yarn to size and apply a small amount of floatant. This has worked for me for years. It is also easy to adjust the fly depth and has minimal effect on the leader stregth. Good luck. Jack

   Our knot testing machine (which, as Lefty says, "has no bias") shows that yarn slip knotted to leader will reduce the leader strength by up to 50%. A much better way is to tie a simple overhand knot in the leader and put in a piece of yarn before cinching up.    Without the yarn this would result in a "wind knot" which is not very strong (reduces leader strength by about 15% . . . it’s not nearly as bad as many have been led to believe).     Our strain gauge device measures accurately down to 1/100 of a pound and it shows zero reduction of strength in an overhand knot cinched around a piece of yarn. Your leader will always break at the yarn because it creates a focus of energy; however, there is no reduction in the strength of the leader.    -Ralph —

Response:

I am trying to use yarn instead of foam, BioStrike, etc. What is the best knot and method to use to attach the yarn to the leader?

One method that works fairly well is to tie the end of the leader (not tippet) to the center of the piece of yarn using an improved cinch knot.  Then tie the tippet to the leader just above the yarn also using an improved cinch knot.  The  obvious disadvantage to this method is that it’s not very easy to change depths. John Johnson Atlanta, GA

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I am trying to use yarn instead of foam, BioStrike, etc. What is the best knot and method to use to attach the yarn to the leader?

I learned a nice method from a guide on the San Juan River in New Mexico. You form a loop up in the fat part of the leader, then reach through the loop and pull another loop of the same leader through it. You put the yarn halfway through this second loop and pull on the leader to tighten it up. If you need to change depths, you just push the leader to open the loop, get your yarn out and do it again somewhere else. I hope I have explained this so you can understand it. It’s a pretty simple method, though it will leave a bend in the leader if you leave the yarn in too long. Doesn’t seem to affect the strength of the leader though. — | Michael P. Thompson – Liberty Communications | |           * Spreading the Word *             |

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[snip] Your leader will always break at the yarn because it creates a focus of energy; however, there is no reduction in the strength of the leader.   -Ralph

I didn’t realize from your previous posts that you were a "New Age" kind of guy Ralph.  That focus of energy must be some variation of the pyramid effect.  :-) BTW, I love to read your magazine articles! See ya, John Johnson Atlanta, GA

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Question:

All the comments so far are quite interesting to me because I have yet to own a rod over 8′ in length. I built a 8′   6 wt.  st croix and a 7′2" 3 wt. st croix for myself two years ago and have only used the 8′ a dozen times.  The short light rod is just a ball to use and I have caught some good fish on it!  1 to 4 lb largemouth, tuns o sunfish, 61/2 lb. brown, 9 lb carp,  4 1/2 lb smallmouth buffalo.There aren’t many things I would trade my small short rod for. The superiority of one man’s opinion over another’s is never so great as when the opinion is about fishing. Tim ILBTim

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I find a 9ft quality 5 wt. idealfdor all fresh water fishing. Unless you are fishing very small streams stick wit what you have unless money is no object.

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Short rods definitely are useful and fun, especially on small brushy streams.  Lamiglass makes some short rods, with the smallest around 51/2 ft.  St. Croix used to make some nice ones back in the days of glass, but I have no idea what their line is now.

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Short rods are advantageous in tight conditions with canopy type overgrowth.  A long rod in this situation would always be stuck in the canopy.  In areas where most of the cover is on the banks and not overhanging the river, a longer rod will allow you to  backcast over the obstructions more easily, is more accurate (like having a longer finger to point with) and definitely gives you better line handling and mending.  So as many answers to  fly fishing questions goes,  "It all depends".  Make your choice depending on the conditions or personal preferance. Lee Wulff once said that he didn’t fish short rods because they were better, but because they were more challenging and he enjoyed fishing them more than long rods.  Check out Joan Wulff’s book for some specialty casts to use with short rods.                                                               Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Short rods are advantageous in tight conditions with canopy type overgrowth.  A long rod in this situation would always be stuck in the canopy.  In areas where most of the cover is on the banks and not overhanging the river, a longer rod will allow you to  backcast over the obstructions more easily, is more accurate (like having a longer finger to point with) and definitely gives you better line handling and mending.  So as many answers to  fly fishing questions goes,  "It all depends".   Make your choice depending on the conditions or personal preferance. Lee Wulff once said that he didn’t fish short rods because they were better, but because they were more challenging and he enjoyed fishing them more than long rods.  Check out Joan Wulff’s book for some specialty casts to use with short rods.                                                              Dan Dan Gracia                                                             Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Re: Short fly rods Don’t forget that long rods can really come in handy if you fish stillwater from a belly boat. I fish an out of production (I think) Orvis 10 1/2′ in my tube. The minor inconviences are easily outweighed by the advantages of the extra length. Like you said, "It all depends…" Good luck, Nash

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IMHO, I have a Sage 7.5′ 4wt and I love it! The majority of fishing I do is on small spring streams and it is perfect.  I have other rods, longer and heavier, but this one is definitely my favorite. D.P.

The best rod I own is an Orvis "Tippet" 7.5′ 3wt 1.5 oz.. I use it for trout and panfish. It’s the first rod that I grab and the one I use when I dream about fishing.

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I’ve used my Orvis Flea, 6 1/2′ 4 weight almost exclusively for the last two years. Originally bought it for small s.w. Michigan streams with low canopies but have had success on local northern Indiana ponds and even the Yellow Breeches in PA. You need a very smooth knot between leader and fly line because you’ll probably reel in that much to reach fish or to use net. On the plus side, almost any size fish gives your outfit a battle and the shorter rod makes you work on better casting mechanics for longer casts.

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IMO, the biggest disadvantage to short rods is their limited ability to mend line, especially on big rivers.   I use a 9 foot rod for 95% of the fishing I do.  On smaller rivers, like the local Cache la Poudre, I prefer an 8 foot; shorter rods seem to work better for shorter casts. When I get rich some day, working for the government (right) I’d like to get a 9.5 foot six or seven weight for nymphinig big rivers. Generally speaking, the bigger the water, the bigger the rod. — -Wayne Trzyna

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Doug, The Mighty Mite is a 5wt!  You may just be able to get a nice Salmon or Steelhead if you are careful.  Most likely, you could not get a Steelie or Salmon on a 6′ 1wt.  The MM is and was not a gimmic when sold.  It was offered as a short all around rod.  They are rare and collectable, dont break it! Sean

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IMHO, it depends on where you plan on fishing.  If you’re on the big rivers, I’d go with a longer rod.  Physically, they are capable of putting out more line (higher rod tip speed, etc.).  If, however, you’re like me and are ducking overhanging branches and the like, I would STRONGLY recommend a short rod.  I have a 7′2" 4wt that I absoulutely LOVE!  My first rod was a 9′6" 5wt that was nice, just had to be so careful about tree fishing.  Also, I really don’t think the added length makes too much of a difference in relation to distance unless you start talking about throwing flies way out there, because I’ve never been let down by the short rod in trying to hit a spot.  My suggestion, go with the short! Terry

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Also, who do you think won the war between the rods?  Lefty Kreh and the long rods? or Ed Shenk et al and the short ones?

Jim, I think a random sampling of rod vendors’ offerings is more than sufficient to answer this question. Rods 8ft or longer in length are the rule, with rods under 8ft being the overwhelming minority. (In fact, this is probably also true if the criterion were 9ft or longer for a "long" rod.) This is not to criticize short rod proponents; only to point out that there is very little question on this subject if you look to the marketplace as your measurement of "who won the war". Regards, Fred

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I am interested in knowledge about short fly rods, particulary fiberglass but also graphite.  Line weights 3 – 5.  Also, rods that are for sale.   There have been waves of interest in these small rods in the past, probably started by Lee Wulff and Arnold Gingrich, but also Ed Shenk.  I am interested in your experience with the short ones, different manufacturers, lengths, shortcomings, etc., not commercialized opinion driven by marketing usually published in the fly fishing journals.  Also, who do you think won the war between the rods?  Lefty Kreh and the long rods? or Ed Shenk et al and the short ones? Thanks. J. H.

Jim: Just my own experience, but I have a 6′6" Loomis GL3 (graphite) 3-weight that I really like to use on small streams.  I have caught trout, largemouth and smallmouth bass, and lots of panfish on it and really love to use it. It does, however, leave a lot to be desired if you are fishing in a wind.  I think that part has as much to do with the line weight as the length, but the two are probably related. Finally, if your small stream fishing includes dropping nymphs along cutbanks without actual casting, a 9′ rod works a lot better for that. Still, there is something that is just FUN about throwing a light line and a tiny fly on a short rod.  I think it makes me a better fisherman with my other rods. Thanks, Bob

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IMHO, I have a Sage 7.5′ 4wt and I love it! The majority of fishing I do is on small spring streams and it is perfect.  I have other rods, longer and heavier, but this one is definitely my favorite. D.P.

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    IMHO, short rods (beginning with the bamboo type) have always been of interest to some fishermen because there have been promoters of fishing with them, especially the late Lee Wulff.  He could cast very long distances with a short rod, as well as land very large fish.  In the world of bamboo, a very heavy material, a short rod was a light rod.       The advent of graphite has eliminated weight as a consideration in rod length.  So now we can return to consideration of basic principles like the length of the rod as a lever for casting or its applicability for handling or manipulating line on the water.  And in this regard, a longer rod is preferable, all other things being equal.  Many of the light weight rods (by line size) are now relatively lengthy – few under 8′ and many at 9′ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The short rod interest has really confused me as of late also.  I have always favored a shortish rod for the fishing I do in the Sierra and High  Sierra.  There really is no scientific fact for this, they are simply easier to carry and cast in tight conditions with light line. The trout are seldom over 12", so the short, light rod makes fair game of them.   The 1oz, 1 and 2wt. rods are gimmics in my opinion.  I have used one particular model and felt I did the fish I caught some real harm, by not bringing them in quick enough. The rod simply wouldnt allow it. I was using the rod to get a feel for the action and casting abilities and comparing it to light cane rods.  While I know of no 1 or 2wt. cane rods, there was a significant difference between this rod and 3 and 4wt. cane.  The cane has the same sweet action and feel (heavier yes) but brought fish to the hand much faster. I believe this is another fad the industry is going through.  Much has been written over th past two years about short, light rods.  So much so, that the once common and inexpensive short cane rods have become the rage across the country.  This is both good and bad.  Bad, because I really cant afford to buy the SB 290’s and HI Tonka Princes any longer, at the rate I break them. . But good because, these really are decent rods and deserve some respect.  As with anything "collectable" the prices will certinly rise to unaffordability soon enough. Thoughts out there? Regards, Sean

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The short rod interest has really confused me as of late also.  I have always favored a shortish rod for the fishing I do in the Sierra and High Sierra.  There really is no scientific fact for this, they are simply easier to carry and cast in tight conditions with light line. The trout are seldom over 12", so the short, light rod makes fair game of them.   The 1oz, 1 and 2wt. rods are gimmics in my opinion.  I have used one particular model and felt I did the fish I caught some real harm, by not bringing them in quick enough. The rod simply wouldnt allow it. I was using the rod to get a feel for the action and casting abilities and comparing it to light cane rods.  While I know of no 1 or 2wt. cane rods, there was a significant difference between this rod and 3 and 4wt. cane.  The cane has the same sweet action and feel (heavier yes) but brought fish to the hand much faster. I believe this is another fad the industry is going through.  Much has been written over th past two years about short, light rods.  So much so, that the once common and inexpensive short cane rods have become the rage across the country.  This is both good and bad.  Bad, because I really cant afford to buy the SB 290’s and HI Tonka Princes any longer, at the rate I break them. . But good because, these really are decent rods and deserve some respect.  As with anything "collectable" the prices will certinly rise to unaffordability soon enough. Thoughts out there? Regards, Sean

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Question:

Anybody out in cyberspace have any info on Steelheading in S. Alaska, specifically Prince of Wales Island in the spring? I would like to do a budget, do it yourself type trip in May. If you have any info please Ken L.

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I have fished Prince of Wales Island several times in september for Silvers,           Chum,Pinks and Sockeyes. Thats the right time of the year for a trip, fly to Ketchican, rent a car from Alaska car rental at the airport and take the Aroura State Ferry to Hollis on Prince Wales Island, drive to the town of Craig and stay at Ruth Anns Hotel for $65 a night. The ferry price is $125 with car. The car rental is $40 a day, 14 day fishing licence is $30, buy it in Ketchican. There is 1200 miles of logging roads on the Island and a lot of rivers along the roads. Excellent Steel Head fishing. You can write to Tongrass National Forest for maps of roads and rivers and also info on where the steel head are in May. There are grocery stores and restaurants available. There are very few people fishing so you will not have to fight crowds. There are no Grizzly Bears but you will see a lot of Black Bears, they are safe. The trip can be done for a $1000 or less for 8-10 days, depending on air fare. Have a good trip!

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