First of all, my apologies to those who did not get in this year, I wish we could sign up everybody that wants to swap. Now, I tried sending out this list via private email but 2 keep bouncing back, John Russell, I need your correct email address, and an unnamed from aol keeps bouncing. Aol, in their own inimitable stye won’t say who it is. (!) Anyway, here it is for better or worse. COPY BEGINS HERE…… Well folks, this will be the final tally on tyers unless someone else decides to drop out. Because of a screw-up on my part, we have wound up with 41 instead of "just" 40. I trust this will not cause a problem for anyone. PLEASE, when you communicate with me, do it in private e-mail and just use FLY SWAP in the subject line. Depending on roff/rofft for communication has caused some problems for me in getting the info in a timely manner. OK, I’m hitting the road in a few minutes and won’t be available to return messages until sometime this coming Saturday. Have fun tying and for those who have yet to name your fly, no big deal, but it would be nice if you could remember to send me the name of your pattern when you decide what to tie. 2. Randy Kane…….TBA 3. Hans van der Stroom…….TBA 4. Walter Huff……Deer Hair Bug 5. Dave Martel…..(LaFontaine Emergent Sparkle Caddis) 7. John Russell…….(Gold Butt Bear) 9. Peter Collin……Mark’s Carpet Fly 10. Lou Teletski…..Epoxyhead Baitfish 11. Tim Lysyk……. Olive Mountain Midge 14. Brian Nelson…….TBA 15. Paul Goodwin……TBA 16. Sam Stump…….Zug Bug 18. John Whitely…….TBD 19. John Brandt…..Royal Coachman Marabou Streamer 20. Ronald Ausman……TBD 24. Jamie Heim…….Canadian Killer 28. Eugene Knapik…… Usual 29. Jeff Gooldy….Altmar Sunrise 30. Bob Beardall……TBD 31. Chris Fanning…….Clouser Tube Fly 34. Bob Weinberger…….Olive and Starling soft hackle 35. Michael Hewitt…….Matuka type fly 36. Charlie Wilson……TBD 38. Wayne Hart…..TBD 39. Willi Loehmann….TBD 40. Warren Findley…..TBD 41. Herman Nijland….TBD Your Benevolent Old Gray Swapmeister Frank Church in Elkhart, IN bassbugr AT yahoo dot com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -}<((((o ~~~ }<((((o ~~~ }<((((o ~~~ }<(((o
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First of all, my apologies to those who did not get in this year, I wish we could sign up everybody that wants to swap. Now, I tried sending out this list via private email but 2 keep bouncing back, John Russell, I need your correct email address, and an unnamed from aol keeps bouncing. Aol, in their own inimitable stye won’t say who it is. (!) Anyway, here it is for better or worse. COPY BEGINS HERE…… Well folks, this will be the final tally on tyers unless someone else decides to drop out. Because of a screw-up on my part, we have wound up with 41 instead of "just" 40. I trust this will not cause a problem for anyone. PLEASE, when you communicate with me, do it in private e-mail and just use FLY SWAP in the subject line. Depending on roff/rofft for communication has caused some problems for me in getting the info in a timely manner. OK, I’m hitting the road in a few minutes and won’t be available to return messages until sometime this coming Saturday. Have fun tying and for those who have yet to name your fly, no big deal, but it would be nice if you could remember to send me the name of your pattern when you decide what to tie. 2. Randy Kane…….TBA 3. Hans van der Stroom…….TBA 4. Walter Huff……Deer Hair Bug 5. Dave Martel…..(LaFontaine Emergent Sparkle Caddis) 7. John Russell…….(Gold Butt Bear) 9. Peter Collin……Mark’s Carpet Fly 10. Lou Teletski…..Epoxyhead Baitfish 11. Tim Lysyk……. Olive Mountain Midge 14. Brian Nelson…….TBA 15. Paul Goodwin……TBA 16. Sam Stump…….Zug Bug 18. John Whitely…….TBD 19. John Brandt…..Royal Coachman Marabou Streamer 20. Ronald Ausman……TBD 24. Jamie Heim…….Canadian Killer 28. Eugene Knapik…… Usual 29. Jeff Gooldy….Altmar Sunrise 30. Bob Beardall……TBD 31. Chris Fanning…….Clouser Tube Fly 34. Bob Weinberger…….Olive and Starling soft hackle 35. Michael Hewitt…….Matuka type fly 36. Charlie Wilson……TBD 38. Wayne Hart…..TBD 39. Willi Loehmann….TBD 40. Warren Findley…..TBD 41. Herman Nijland….TBD 42. George Gehrke ….The Bigot Special Your Benevolent Old Gray Swapmeister Frank Church in Elkhart, IN bassbugr AT yahoo dot com }<((((o ~~~ }<((((o ~~~ }<((((o ~~~ }<(((o
42. George Gehrke ….The Bigot Special
george, you can’t help spewing yer vitriolic shit everywhere, can ya? you are one sad example of a homo sapien….. oneday soon, i’m convinced you will be received warmly in hell. –waldo
Walt? Not true. I don’t see how an old fart like you can continue with such nonsense? Thing is Walt, it doesn’t take much to piss you off about ANYTHING! If you want The Bigot Special, just ask, I’ve always been tolerant of you Walt. christ. Lighten up man. George Gehrke To hell and back 42. George Gehrke ….The Bigot Special george, you can’t help spewing yer vitriolic shit everywhere, can ya?
f*^# you Walt. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – –waldo
one of these day’s i’ll learn not to respond to the friggin’ village idiot. –waldo
<snip f*^# you Walt.
Exactly what I was talking about last week George. Same old cycle. Show up, post a few relatively informative messages, try to act friendly, then resort to the same old insults and bombast. Start a flame war, leave in a huff, promise to stay away for a while, then come back a day later for more. The cycle repeats as it has since 1995. Somebody on the commercial side of flyfishing should think a bit more before making public postings in a flyfishing newsgroup, George. Thousands of people read these messages. You lose more potential customers every time you repeat this cycle. You provide entertainment for your detractors, and hurt your business. What’s the sense of that? –Stan – post followups to misc.business.marketing.clueless (gonna buy a Bud Lite for Waldo and let it sit on my car until May – freeze, thaw, heat up, repeat)
(gonna buy a Bud Lite for Waldo and let it sit on my car until May – freeze, thaw, heat up, repeat)
jeez stan, what the hell did i ever do to you to deseve *that*? –waldo, screw-it, ya’ll can find me at the wiekert sportsmans club come may….. yuengling on draft
jeez stan, what the hell did i ever do to you to deseve *that*? –waldo, screw-it, ya’ll can find me at the wiekert sportsmans club come may….. yuengling on draft
Winters, you are nothing more than a quibbler. All of you carolina people are quibblers. Quibblers, quibblers, quibbler. So, their! G. Gehrke American Jet Warrior
Your vocabulary speaks for itself on the higher plains of roff. Did you take college courses in swearing or did you just attend North Carolina University for a week? George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – one of these day’s i’ll learn not to respond to the friggin’ village idiot. –waldo
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Wolfgang writes: Looking for a "kit" for harvesting and preserving nymphs, flies etc. Saw one advertised a few years back but cant find the ad. Suggestions? Science supply stores and school supply stores are probably a good bet for kits. You will probably get by a lot cheaper by using a simple kitchen sieve for collecting and any small bottles for preserving specimens. Traditionally, formaldehyde was the favored medium but it is very much out of favor these days due to its high toxicity. Methanol is another commonly used preservative, and it is relatively safe. In any case, preserved specimens rarely hold their natural colors well. If you’re thinking of using them as patterns for tying artificials they should work well enough for shape and size, but color photos of the live specimens will be better. Bear in mind that in some places it is not legal to collect aquatic insects for any purpose other than to use them immediately as bait. Presumably there are also places where it is not legal for any purpose.
Cigar containers, the glass ones with screw tops, are good for holding the samples. I would suggest you fill the container with some foul smelling/tasting crap — aha! Voila! Lagavulen! That shit kills *and* preserves!
Looking for a "kit" for harvesting and preserving nymphs, flies etc. Saw one advertised a few years back but cant find the ad. Suggestions? Phil Boinske
In _An Angler’s Guide to Aquatic Insects and Their Imitations_, Rick Hafele lists several sources for sampling and collecting equipment including: BioQuip Products PO Box 61 Santa Monica, CA 90406 213.322.6636 Another info source is _Hatches II_ which has a chapter called "Stream Research" listing some fairly common (screen colendar) tools to use on the stream. Bob McAnulty
Yes, Hughes and Hafele (sp?) are flyfishing entomologists (who taught/teach? at U of Oregon if I’m not mistaken??) that wrote a practical guidebook to the 4 major insect groups and how to use them in flyfishing. Good stuff for learning the basics. They do get into acquiring and labeling/preserving insect specimens. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking for a "kit" for harvesting and preserving nymphs, flies etc. Saw one advertised a few years back but cant find the ad. Suggestions? Phil Boinske In _An Angler’s Guide to Aquatic Insects and Their Imitations_, Rick Hafele lists several sources for sampling and collecting equipment including: BioQuip Products PO Box 61 Santa Monica, CA 90406 213.322.6636 Another info source is _Hatches II_ which has a chapter called "Stream Research" listing some fairly common (screen colendar) tools to use on the stream. Bob McAnulty
In any case, preserved specimens rarely hold their natural colors well. If you’re thinking of using them as patterns for tying artificials they should work well enough for shape and size, but color photos of the live specimens will be better.
I’ve got something from Wind River called Bug Balmer – Insect Preservative with Color fixing agent. I haven’t gotten around to trying it yet. It has isopropyl alchohol, water, and acetic acid listed as the ingredients. It mentions that "The natural color and size of the insects start changing after removal from the water so place them into Bug Balmer immediately." and "Scuds, freshwater shrimp and green Caddis larvae will change colors due to unavoidable body processes." Regards, Jeff
Looking for a "kit" for harvesting and preserving nymphs, flies etc. Saw one advertised a few years back but cant find the ad. Suggestions? Phil Boinske
Looking for a "kit" for harvesting and preserving nymphs, flies etc. Saw one advertised a few years back but cant find the ad. Suggestions?
Science supply stores and school supply stores are probably a good bet for kits. You will probably get by a lot cheaper by using a simple kitchen sieve for collecting and any small bottles for preserving specimens. Traditionally, formaldehyde was the favored medium but it is very much out of favor these days due to its high toxicity. Methanol is another commonly used preservative, and it is relatively safe. In any case, preserved specimens rarely hold their natural colors well. If you’re thinking of using them as patterns for tying artificials they should work well enough for shape and size, but color photos of the live specimens will be better. Bear in mind that in some places it is not legal to collect aquatic insects for any purpose other than to use them immediately as bait. Presumably there are also places where it is not legal for any purpose.
Are there such things as clear polarised glasses. All the ones I’ve seen are tinted which defeats the purpose on a darkish day. Or can you get you existing perscription glasses coated with a polarizing layer?
I asked my optomitrist (sp?) exactly that and he said, "No." — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)
Are there such things as clear polarised glasses. All the ones I’ve seen are tinted which defeats the purpose on a darkish day. Or can you get you existing perscription glasses coated with a polarizing layer? Ari Ari Bert 083 232 9903 Gaelle Bert 083 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner www.troutfishing.co.za +27 11 447 7230 Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt Street, Rosebank (Behind Std Bank)
Are there such things as clear polarised glasses. All the ones I’ve seen are tinted which defeats the purpose on a darkish day. Or can you get you existing perscription glasses coated with a polarizing layer? Ari
if not you might want to try a pair w/ photochromatic lenses (they lighten and darken depending on the conditions). i have a pair and they work great in the northwest, and we have our share of dark and gloomy days where the only reason for wearing glasses is because of that large fly tearing past our head <G. chris
From my experience in photography and applying some intuitive reasoning, a polarizing lens with no additional shading will be at a minimum around 50% gray. This is so because the lens filters out light significantly outside the polarizing plane of the lens. I believe you can order prescription polarized lenses with no additional tint. At least you used to be able to because I have a pair (with glass lenses) that I bought 20 years ago. Ken (to reply via email remove "zz" from address)
Are there such things as clear polarised glasses. All the ones I’ve seen are tinted which defeats the purpose on a darkish day. Or can you get you existing perscription glasses coated with a polarizing layer?
I use amber colored lenses. Don’t know how much light they actually block but it must be considerably less than the other colors as they give the illusion of brightening while cutting down on glare….at least in strong light. At dusk the true darkening effect is more noticeable, but still less than darker colors.
Quite by chance I discovered a very interesting little trick. I use the clip-on/flip-up type of polarised lenses, and these are often only available in either amber or green, and are quite heavily tinted. I use the amber ones usually, as the contrast is better. I have several pairs, as I like them for driving etc as well as fishing. I left a pair of these lying on the dashboard of my car for several weeks, with the back of the lenses uppermost, and when I came to use them again, I discovered that the dark tint had more or less disappeared, but the polarising effect had not. Apparently the strong sunlight had bleached the colour out, without damaging the polarising properties. I have now done this purposely with several sets, and one can reduce the tint quite considerably, in fact a couple of sets are almost clear, but still polarise. This is very useful indeed, especially in dark weather, or in the evening, when the normal lenses block too much light. Might be worth a try for anyone wishing to reduce the tint in such lenses. The lenses are plastic by the way. TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are there such things as clear polarised glasses. All the ones I’ve seen are tinted which defeats the purpose on a darkish day. Or can you get you existing perscription glasses coated with a polarizing layer? I use amber colored lenses. Don’t know how much light they actually block but it must be considerably less than the other colors as they give the illusion of brightening while cutting down on glare….at least in strong light. At dusk the true darkening effect is more noticeable, but still less than darker colors.
Are there such things as clear polarised glasses. All the ones I’ve seen are tinted which defeats the purpose on a darkish day. Or can you get you existing perscription glasses coated with a polarizing layer?
I don’t know if you’ll find this helpful or not, but I personally can’t stomach sunglasses over $100. I bought a pair from Stren (www.basspro.com maybe?) that cost around $35 and come with 2 interchangeable polarized lenses. The tan/amber color are much better in lower light conditions than the gray color. Regards, Jeff
I’m not sure i understand very well what you say Ken, (I’m french and sometime i misinterpret some things) so if i say the same thing as you in different words please pardon me. But my background is also in photography. Polarizing glass can be completely clear with no tint at all! But nonetheless there will be an impression of shading because of the re-orientation of the light rays, but the effect won’t be exactly like shading, it’s more like more intense color. Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com
Are there such things as clear polarised glasses. All the ones I’ve seen are tinted which defeats the purpose on a darkish day. Or can you get you existing perscription glasses coated with a polarizing layer?
As others have point out, the maximu theoretical transmission of a polarizing film for unpolarized light is 50%. That is because the component of the wrong polarization, approximately 50% of the light present has to be absorbe. Polaroid Corporation, and presumably other film suppliers make several different kinds of polarizers for different puposes. The maximum real transmission possible is about 35%. Sunglass manufacturers use what they think will sell. Several years ago, I was able to find some clipons that were about 35% transmissive at the local 99
Vern, You may want to check out a Loomis GL4. I am told that it is has a very similar action to the top of the line GLX (my rod), but at half the price ($250?). I just somehow broke the tip on mine (a 5wt), and after inspection Loomis supplied a new tip section absolutely free. I love this rod–very light, fast, with plenty of backbone. Good shopping (Christmas is fast approaching), Pat K
Surely driving over it the same side a few more times would have allowed him to shoot round corners?!! David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My cousin an I were jump shooting ducks in some ponds down by the ocean. After we left I noticed my cousin’s old single shot 12 gauge wasn’t in the jeep. We went back and it lay in the sand with tire tracks over the barrel. The barrel had a slight bend in it so I told my cousin to drive the jeep over it again while held it with the bent side up. It worked and he hunted with that old gun for several years after that. Ernie Harrison Want to make tapered leaders? http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 I did something similar when I was a kid, but Dad’s casting rod was made of steel and was bent something awful.I still remember the look in some of my friends faces when I told them that all Dad said was "Well did you learn anything?"
If it were me, I would contact the manufacturer. I have found most rod companies to be very sympathetic to accidents, especially if you tell them the truth about how it was broken. Usually not on a fish. Good luck.
buddies. I did something similar when I was a kid, but Dad’s casting rod was made of steel and was bent something awful.I still remember the look in some of my friends faces when I told them that all Dad said was "Well did you learn anything?" Big Dale
<snipped Ugh, I remember doing that… Waaaaaay back when I got my first fly rod I tried to learn it all by my self and I had a Diawa Cherrywood Series rod. It was fairly light (About a 4-5 if I had to guess now) and I sure did not know how to use the thing. I ended up shutting the door on the tip and snapping it off. That was the end of that rod for me. Now I think I probably would try to re-tip it. That story also sends shudders through me as I am taking my five year old daughter out fishing once in a while and I will certainly keep that story in mind to make me more cautious! Hope it works out! Michael Era
Hi I am going to the flyfishing retailer show in Salt Lake City in mid September and want to go fishing for a couple of days. Can anyone recommend a good spot, and also a decent place to stay, not too expensive ($30 or so) Tight lines!
The Provo River can fish well at times!! The Green, but it is a bit of a drive. Good Luck, Forrest Forrest FlyFishingREVIEW.com Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Try the Provo river supposed to be second only to the Green in Utah
Two weeks ago the Provo was running to high to fish very well. I think the Green would be best.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try the Provo river supposed to be second only to the Green in Utah
Get out a map. When I went to school in Provo an elephants age ago, we filled our freezer with Browns from the Spanish Fork, at the south end of Utah Valley, and in the creek off the highway that runs down into Helper and the Utah coal country. There is an "American Fork" toward the north end of the Valley, that used to be pretty good too. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Two weeks ago the Provo was running to high to fish very well. I think the Green would be best. Try the Provo river supposed to be second only to the Green in Utah
I’ve fished the Provo River twice, in the lower tailwater section. Lots of fish, mostly nymph fishing. Good size fish. Beautiful scenery. The Sept. 99 issue of Fly Fisherman has a comprehensive article on the Provo. Steve Kling
I live in Salt Lake City, Utah and have flyfished for years if you want info email me directly Mike Holtum
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve fished the Provo River twice, in the lower tailwater section. Lots of fish, mostly nymph fishing. Good size fish. Beautiful scenery. The Sept. 99 issue of Fly Fisherman has a comprehensive article on the Provo. Steve Kling
I think the St. Croix recommendation is a good too. I also like the Sage DS II series which will come in about $250. The reel isn’t as good as the ones mentioned but for a price of about $250 its a great way to start. My favorite lines are the Wulff Diamond Taper and the Cortland Lazer 444 for dry lines. For sinking lines, I really like the Scientific Angler Uniform Sink lines. All are about $45 to $50.
If it were me I’d look at the cabela’s, orvis, ll bean catalogs (they’ll send them free) for a 7wt. beginners outfit. They come complete and balanced. Orvis will set you up AND install the line & backing. The others will send you the components. A 7wt may give you an edge just in case a large mouth comes along. John Popp in Sanford Fl.
Follow the above advice, forget spending $400 on a setup when your only learning. (I assume your just starting because of the question about line size.)Why would you shell out $400 dollars for the possibility that you might hate the rod once you find out what your doing. Maybe you’ll like a slow action rod or a fast taper stick for distance fishing. Right now your not sure what you need or want. best thing is to throw a $100 bucks on a setup as mentioned above, and once you get used to the rod and can appreciate different types of actions, you can make an informed decision. Then you can spend the rest of the money on a better rod/reel setup. you may also find that you may want a different line weight etc, after you get some experience under your belt. you may also find that you may not even want a better rod, and that the cheapo does everything you want. Then you can blow the money on something more useful. Hell, you may even hate flyfishing once you start doing it.
I’m looking for the best combination of rod, reel, and line for fishing panfish, trout, and smallmouth in a lake setting. What brands would you recommend? I’m looking to spend around $400. Should I be looking at a 5 or 6 line(or other)? Friends have recommended the St. Croix Legend Ultra series of rods, and reel recommendation have gone from Scientific Anglers to Lamson to Orvis. I need the complete setup-rod, reel, line-Any help appreciated.
Hi Jeff, I’d suggest you take a look at the Orvis Silver Label TL 906 outfit for $360. However, I’d recommend upgrading the Battenkill reel to the disc version (adds $10 to the outfit price). IMO the Battenkill 5/6 Disc is a much better reel for only a few bucks more. The TL 906 is a 9ft. 6wt. rod made on a compound taper out of the highest modulus graphite Orvis uses. It is a light, fast action rod (9.5 on the Orvis flex index). It works best with a 6wt. line which is great for trout, smallbouth, and panfish in lakes,but if you want to put a 7wt. line on it and go fish for largemouth bass with deer hair poppers, it’ll do that fine too. One respondent suggested you don’t spend the $ for an outfit if your starting out for fear you may not like the rod once you gain some skill. The best choice if you don’t already fly fish, is to get a casting lesson and then try some of the various recommended rods out to see which one suits you best. With just one casting lesson you should be able to cast well enough to feel the difference between rods. Your tastes may change over the years, but you won’t get stuck with a stinker. If the TL 906 is too stiff for your tastes try out the Silver Label 906 which is a mid flex rod (Orvis index 6.0). Good Luck, Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish
I’m looking for the best combination of rod, reel, and line for fishing panfish, trout, and smallmouth in a lake setting. What brands would you recommend? I’m looking to spend around $400. Should I be looking at a 5 or 6 line(or other)? Friends have recommended the St. Croix Legend Ultra series of rods, and reel recommendation have gone from Scientific Anglers to Lamson to Orvis. I need the complete setup-rod, reel, line-Any help appreciated.
I got the St. Croix Legend Ultra #4 travel rod, and I absolutely love it! It’s a pretty fast rod, so if you’re brand new to flyfishing, you want to consider slower action rod for easier casting.. But don’t take my word for it. Go to a decent shop and cast different rods yourself. It’s the only way to go! As for the reel, it’s basically just a place to store your line. Get a cheap one!
I’m looking for the best combination of rod, reel, and line for fishing panfish, trout, and smallmouth in a lake setting. What brands would you recommend? I’m looking to spend around $400. Should I be looking at a 5 or 6 line(or other)? Friends have recommended the St. Croix Legend Ultra series of rods, and reel recommendation have gone from Scientific Anglers to Lamson to Orvis. I need the complete setup-rod, reel, line-Any help appreciated.
Jeff, Don’t think of costs just for the rod, reel, line combo. Reddington has some really nice selections for a lot less than $400. In fact for under $200 you can get a complete set up, and then spend the other 200 on getting the flies, waders and such 
In fact I purchased a Reddington Red Start last year for around $110 and a Cortland reel for $30, Scientific angler line for $45. The rod has an unconditional lifetime guarantee, which I had to use already once. If nothing else the Reddington’s should not be overlooked. –Randy
Hi, I agree with the St. Croix reccommendation- I’d go for the Ultra Legend, and then buy a good SA – a system 2 if you can afford it, or an sa1 if you have to scrimp. I don’t agree about a Lamson, etc. reel on an Imperial – you’ll enjoy the rod more than the better reel (althought the St. Croix travel rods ARE nice). I just can’t see the big deal in some of these so – called big name reels. The SA system2 I’ve got has lasted years and is used almost daily in season and in the salt in the off-season in Florida. Just MHO. Bill — Bill Curry Tight Lines Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada Phone or Fax : 902-656-3329 http://www.tightlines.ns.ca
I’m looking for the best combination of rod, reel, and line for fishing panfish, trout, and smallmouth in a lake setting. What brands would you recommend? I’m looking to spend around $400. Should I be looking at a 5 or 6 line(or other)? Friends have recommended the St. Croix Legend Ultra series of rods, and reel recommendation have gone from Scientific Anglers to Lamson to Orvis. I need the complete setup-rod, reel, line-Any help appreciated. Thanks Jeff
Friends have recommended the St. Croix Legend Ultra series of rods, and reel recommendation have gone from Scientific Anglers to Lamson to Orvis. I need the complete setup-rod, reel, line-Any help appreciated.
I threw the Legend Ultra last week for the first time. I was very surprised by its beefy feel, fast action and light weight. I’m probably going to buy one (or two) for house rods here….. For price and performance,I gave it an A+. I have a Lamson2….. straightforward, reliable, light and effective. The only negative thing I’d have to say about the reel is the expense of extra/replacement spools <steep. And for line, I’ve fallen in love with the Cortland 444 RLX. I does have memory, so cold stream fishing might give you some twists and turns… but if you keep it wet, it seldom (if ever) snarls/knots too badly. Oh… take these recommendations from a saltwater FFisher who recently tried fresh water for the first time. Cheers. -thor-
I’m looking for the best combination of rod, reel, and line for fishing panfish, trout, and smallmouth in a lake setting. What brands would you recommend? I’m looking to spend around $400. Should I be looking at a 5 or 6 line(or other)? Friends have recommended the St. Croix Legend Ultra series of rods, and reel recommendation have gone from Scientific Anglers to Lamson to Orvis. I need the complete setup-rod, reel, line-Any help appreciated. Thanks Jeff
Jeff, if you get the SC Legend Ultra and put an Orvis Battenkill Disc reel on it, you’ll have $350 invested in a fine outfit. Now add another $40-50 for a good line you are at your target price. On the other hand, you could get the St Croix Imperial 5/6 for $135 (I own the 4 piece travel model) and go up to the Lamson LP-2 reel. Add in the cost of the line and you’re still close to your target price. BTW, this is a *great* rod for the money. Now, my advice is to get the Legend Ultra and the Orvis Battenkill Disc Drag reel. You should have a really good rod, the reel is not quite so important so long as you stay away from the K-Mart specials. More important than the reel is get a *good* quality line. I have used Scientific Anglers for years and have no complaints. There are those who will disagree with my opinions, but advice is free, and you get what you pay for. ) Frank Church Elkhart, IN
taxes, sex & flyfishing As is usual this time of year, today I had sex with Uncle Sam….he screwed me good this time. At least it will be another year before I get reamed again. I didn’t even enjoy the post-coitus cigarette. What I did enjoy was going to a neat little back country stone-creek that is chock full of wild fish and I won’t divulge the name of it. Let’s just say it’s nowhere near North Carolina nor Key West. I’ve been meaning to fish this stretch for years and finally made it today. I parked at an easy access point and started working upstream about 4 pm and picked up a couple of small wild browns and rainbows on a size 16 ehc and than landed a nice ‘bow who ripped the elk hair off the fly. In a lackadaisical mood, I left the wingless "caddis" tied on and fished it just as a full-shanked hackled fly. I couldn’t believe it as I continued to catch fish on this half-dressed fly. So far, I had been working upstream through a series of riffles and pockets and an occasional small pool. As I came around a bend, a big beautiful pool greeted me with a nice waterfall at the head. Ahhhh, the promised land. I finally changed flies to another full-bodied ehc. I surveyed my surroundings and determined that if I was going to get my fly to where that big moving shadow was, it was going to take one hell of a soft roll cast. Unbelievably, I succeeded with my effort and was rewarded with a solid 14 inch wild rainbow that ripped back and forth through the pool. Usually, when that happens all the other fish inhabiting a pool go a hiding. Not this pool. I actually took three more smaller fish before they wised up to my presence. I shortly debated with myself to call it a day versus climbing up and around the falls. I climbed. A little while later with no broken bones, I stepped back into the creek. A hatch of Hendricksons (kinda early in the season I thought, but it has been warm as of late) greeted me and I switched flies quickly to match them. I was continually rewarded with fish as I moved through a gorge section of the creek. Up ahead, I heard what sounded like thunder and as a I came out of the gorge I was taken aback in complete awe. A vertical waterfall at least 100 feet high emptied into this big deep pool. Spray from the fall was reaching me at least a 100 feet away. Pretty damn awesome. I changed flies to a size 12 march brown and approached the pool slowly and began casting the fly into the exits with no luck. I picked up a rainbow from the center and as I was bringing him in something big attacked him. Time to change flies I say…. I put on a big screaming yellow/black wooly-bugger and double-hauled it across the pool and started stripping it back in like there was no tomorrow. Cast and retrieve. I casted and retrieved countless times with no luck. I changed flies to a wally-melon (an aborted wooly-bugger to the inanely curious) and had a resounding strike on the first cast. Big fish, a real big fish. About five minutes later as I released the two-foot or so brownie, I lit another cigarette that was far more satisfying. –walt 4-14-98
— LET YOUR HOOK BE ALWAYS CAST; IN THE POOL WHERE YOU LEAST EXPECT IT, THERE WILL BE A FISH. -OVID- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – taxes, sex & flyfishing As is usual this time of year, today I had sex with Uncle Sam….he screwed me good this time. At least it will be another year before I get reamed again. I didn’t even enjoy the post-coitus cigarette. What I did enjoy was going to a neat little back country stone-creek that is chock full of wild fish and I won’t divulge the name of it. Let’s just say it’s nowhere near North Carolina nor Key West. I’ve been meaning to fish this stretch for years and finally made it today. I parked at an easy access point and started working upstream about 4 pm and picked up a couple of small wild browns and rainbows on a size 16 ehc and than landed a nice ‘bow who ripped the elk hair off the fly. In a lackadaisical mood, I left the wingless "caddis" tied on and fished it just as a full-shanked hackled fly. I couldn’t believe it as I continued to catch fish on this half-dressed fly. So far, I had been working upstream through a series of riffles and pockets and an occasional small pool. As I came around a bend, a big beautiful pool greeted me with a nice waterfall at the head. Ahhhh, the promised land. I finally changed flies to another full-bodied ehc. I surveyed my surroundings and determined that if I was going to get my fly to where that big moving shadow was, it was going to take one hell of a soft roll cast. Unbelievably, I succeeded with my effort and was rewarded with a solid 14 inch wild rainbow that ripped back and forth through the pool. Usually, when that happens all the other fish inhabiting a pool go a hiding. Not this pool. I actually took three more smaller fish before they wised up to my presence. I shortly debated with myself to call it a day versus climbing up and around the falls. I climbed. A little while later with no broken bones, I stepped back into the creek. A hatch of Hendricksons (kinda early in the season I thought, but it has been warm as of late) greeted me and I switched flies quickly to match them. I was continually rewarded with fish as I moved through a gorge section of the creek. Up ahead, I heard what sounded like thunder and as a I came out of the gorge I was taken aback in complete awe. A vertical waterfall at least 100 feet high emptied into this big deep pool. Spray from the fall was reaching me at least a 100 feet away. Pretty damn awesome. I changed flies to a size 12 march brown and approached the pool slowly and began casting the fly into the exits with no luck. I picked up a rainbow from the center and as I was bringing him in something big attacked him. Time to change flies I say…. I put on a big screaming yellow/black wooly-bugger and double-hauled it across the pool and started stripping it back in like there was no tomorrow. Cast and retrieve. I casted and retrieved countless times with no luck. I changed flies to a wally-melon (an aborted wooly-bugger to the inanely curious) and had a resounding strike on the first cast. Big fish, a real big fish. About five minutes later as I released the two-foot or so brownie, I lit another cigarette that was far more satisfying. –walt 4-14-98
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -taxes, sex & flyfishing As is usual this time of year, today I had sex with Uncle Sam….he screwed me good this time. At least it will be another year before I get reamed again. I didn’t even enjoy the post-coitus cigarette. What I did enjoy was going to a neat little back country stone-creek that is chock full of wild fish and I won’t divulge the name of it. Let’s just say it’s nowhere near North Carolina nor Key West. I’ve been meaning to fish this stretch for years and finally made it today. I parked at an easy access point and started working upstream about 4 pm and picked up a couple of small wild browns and rainbows on a size 16 ehc and than landed a nice ‘bow who ripped the elk hair off the fly. In a lackadaisical mood, I left the wingless "caddis" tied on and fished it just as a full-shanked hackled fly. I couldn’t believe it as I continued to catch fish on this half-dressed fly. So far, I had been working upstream through a series of riffles and pockets and an occasional small pool. As I came around a bend, a big beautiful pool greeted me with a nice waterfall at the head. Ahhhh, the promised land. I finally changed flies to another full-bodied ehc. I surveyed my surroundings and determined that if I was going to get my fly to where that big moving shadow was, it was going to take one hell of a soft roll cast. Unbelievably, I succeeded with my effort and was rewarded with a solid 14 inch wild rainbow that ripped back and forth through the pool. Usually, when that happens all the other fish inhabiting a pool go a hiding. Not this pool. I actually took three more smaller fish before they wised up to my presence. I shortly debated with myself to call it a day versus climbing up and around the falls. I climbed. A little while later with no broken bones, I stepped back into the creek. A hatch of Hendricksons (kinda early in the season I thought, but it has been warm as of late) greeted me and I switched flies quickly to match them. I was continually rewarded with fish as I moved through a gorge section of the creek. Up ahead, I heard what sounded like thunder and as a I came out of the gorge I was taken aback in complete awe. A vertical waterfall at least 100 feet high emptied into this big deep pool. Spray from the fall was reaching me at least a 100 feet away. Pretty damn awesome. I changed flies to a size 12 march brown and approached the pool slowly and began casting the fly into the exits with no luck. I picked up a rainbow from the center and as I was bringing him in something big attacked him. Time to change flies I say…. I put on a big screaming yellow/black wooly-bugger and double-hauled it across the pool and started stripping it back in like there was no tomorrow. Cast and retrieve. I casted and retrieved countless times with no luck. I changed flies to a wally-melon (an aborted wooly-bugger to the inanely curious) and had a resounding strike on the first cast. Big fish, a real big fish. About five minutes later as I released the two-foot or so brownie, I lit another cigarette that was far more satisfying. –walt 4-14-98
walt, wake up…… WAKE UP WALT!!
I very much doubt you could break an 8lb tippet with a 5wt rod without either seriously damaging the rod or pointing the rod straight at the fish. The secret of all fishing is to use balanced tackle, that way you can use your tackle to it’s maximum without running the risk of damaging it. — Regards Peter Kay (Remove "nospam" to email) :The guy is full of unmitigated bull hooie. The tippet is the defining :element. If you can break the tippet with the rod, and the tippet is
How tightly do you set your drag? If you point your rod tip towards the fish and set the drag higher than when fishing with a 4 lb tippet then sure you will definitely apply more pressure. Your drag setting and how you hold the rod while fighting fish will determine the answer to your question. My guess is that you’ve got the drag setting at less than 4 lbs (would you dare jiggle a 1/2 gallon carton of milk from the end of your 6 wt rod?). So the guy at the shop is probably right.
Sorry Mu, You’re wrong, and so is the guy in the shop. Drag has nothing to do with it, the breaking strength of the tippet and how much pressure you can put to the fish as a result of that breaking strength is the question here The size of the rod only matters in regards to the weight of the line when casting and in your desire to keep that rod intact when playing a fish. If you are using 4 lb. tippet on an 8 wt. rod there is no way you can apply as much pressure on the fish than you can with an equivalent length rod in 6 wt. and 8 lb. tippet. The only reason that it would be better for the fish to use a 4 lb. tippet is that the fish will probably break off sooner and recover faster. Any steelhead worth half his salt would destroy a 4 lb. tippet in seconds. If the angler was very skilled he would be able to baby that fish in eventually, but at what price? The fish will be mortally exhausted from a half hour struggle to the beach. Chances of recovery of this fish is poor. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
I thought a conundrum was what you wore for safe sex!!
<< I thought a conundrum was what you wore for safe sex!! Nope, that’s a carborundrum. A conundrum is is a kind of Arabian boss.
You are thinking of a condominium. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO http://users.ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought a conundrum was what you wore for safe sex!!
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The rod wt does make a difference. If you are fighting a 2lb trout with say 6x tippet you are more likely to land the fish with a 4wt rod then a 6wt rod. The 4wt is more giving at any given drag setting and will absorb the shock of the fishes fight. The more severe the struggle the more a lighter rod helps. I’ve seen newby fishermen (or bass fishermen new to flyfishing) loose lots of fish with a 6wt rod. I give them my 4 wt and they land the fish. So the shock absorption is for both ends of the rod (fish and fisherman’s action.) So you have to set the drag down for a stiffer rod given the same fish and tippet. Few fish are lost just due to a slow steady pull of a fish where the drag setting only is the consideration, but rather to a fish jerking the line and adding to the pull. I guess said in another way a 2 lb weight is less likely to break a tippet then a 2 lb fish since one is a dynamic force that exceeds a 2lb pull. Sorry Mu, You’re wrong, and so is the guy in the shop. Drag has nothing to do with it, the breaking strength of the tippet and how much pressure you can put to the fish as a result of that breaking strength is the question here The size of the rod only matters in regards to the weight of the line when casting and in your desire to keep that rod intact when playing a fish. If you are using 4 lb. tippet on an 8 wt. rod there is no way you can apply as much pressure on the fish than you can with an equivalent length rod in 6 wt. and 8 lb. tippet. The only reason that it would be better for the fish to use a 4 lb. tippet is that the fish will probably break off sooner and recover faster. Any steelhead worth half his salt would destroy a 4 lb. tippet in seconds. If the angler was very skilled he would be able to baby that fish in eventually, but at what price? The fish will be mortally exhausted from a half hour struggle to the beach. Chances of recovery of this fish is poor.
I think anyone who actually believes that an 8-weight rod can’t put more pressure on a fish than a 6-weight rod has never caught fish big enough to show them the difference. Take the two rods out striper fishing this spring with a ten-pound tippet on each and you’ll be immediately enlightened. I can’t believe this thread has gone on so long. Bob Scott
To some extent it doesn’t matter, although it depends how good a fisherman you are. The best way to put max pressure on a fish is to point the rod directly at the fish; but then it doesn’t matter what the rod weight is! To put the least pressure on a fish, you hold the rod vertical, at which angle a 15 foot 10 weight only puts about two pound pull on a fish. You can demonstrate this with a spring balance, although this will give a higher reading than expected – remember that the fish can’t exactly dig its heels in. Any angle below 45 degrees begins to put a fish under pressure, and the stiffness of the rod and the efficiency of the reel drag will begin to count. However, if the fish is a long way out, and a deal of line is drowned, then other factors are in play which alter your ability to exert pressure. I have seen a guide stop a bonefish in its tracks using an eight pound tippet simply by pointing the rod directly at the fish. I have seen the same done with a chinook. Mind, it is dull compared to playing them… Andrew Andrew N. Herd Associate Editor, Waterlog Magazine http://www.demon.co.uk/medlarpress/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastized for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told thet I shold be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, becauseI have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutly no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statment on his part true? Andrew
pressure on a fish than a 6-weight rod has never caught fish big enough to show them the difference.
is a 20 pound sleelhead big enough? or how about a thirty pound plus chinook? Take the two rods out striper fishing this spring with a ten-pound tippet on each and you’ll be immediately enlightened.
Ten pound tippet is ten pounds breaking strength, with a 6 or an 8 it is still ten pounds. If I put enough pressure on a tippet to break the tippet that is ten pounds, be it with a six or eight that is irrelevant. The big difference is that it is easier to cast the big flies a longer distance. I can’t believe this thread has gone on so long.
That’s an invitation to a flame war Bob Scott
Andrew McFarland
The way that I look at this is that, like Andrew said, ten puonds is ten pounds. One could land a 1500 pound marlin on a 4 wt (heavy leader, naturally) if he had around 2000 yards of backing. Any fish can be landed on any wieght. Just with one rod, the fish might be exhausted and another rod would make the fight last 15 seconds. A six weight is fine. Bryce
I think anyone who actually believes that an 8-weight rod can’t put more pressure on a fish than a 6-weight rod has never caught fish big enough to show them the difference. <SNIP Bob Scott
YES! And why the hell one would confuse the issue by forcing the stronger rod to have lighter tippet is beyond me. Apples to apples. 8wt is stiffer than 6wt. 8wt allows the possibility of putting more pressure on a fish than 6wt. It is that simple. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA. USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"
Ten pound tippet is ten pounds breaking strength, with a 6 or an 8 it is still ten pounds. If I put enough pressure on a tippet to break the tippet that is ten pounds, be it with a six or eight that is irrelevant. I can’t believe this thread has gone on so long. That’s an invitation to a flame war Andrew McFarland
Not an invitation to a flame war at all. Here’s the deal: naturally, the tippet strength is the limiting factor of the TOTAL AMOUNT of pressure you can put on the fish, regardless of rod weight rating. But it’s not that simple. The rod is applying pressure to the fish anytime it is flexed against him, whether the fish is moving away or not. The pressure varies with the amount of flex put in the rod, angle the rod is held, etc. This pressure comes from the rod’s desire to maintain its original, straight shape. Since it takes more pressure to bend a similar-length 8-weight rod than a 6-weight rod, to the same arc, the heavier rod exerts more pressure on the fish as it tries to straighten… even when the fish isn’t moving, and regardless of the tippet strength or drag setting. Follow me? You’ve got to try it for yourself. Like I said, take the two sized rods, set the drags the same with a scale, and fight a few big fish. The heavier rod will whip them quicker. The relentless pull of a flexed rod really tires the fish. When the fish runs, the drag pressure dogs him. But when he’s not running away, the pressure of the rod trying to straighten is what is pulling on him. A heavier rod pulls harder. Bob Scott
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think anyone who actually believes that an 8-weight rod can’t put more pressure on a fish than a 6-weight rod has never caught fish big enough to show them the difference. Take the two rods out striper fishing this spring with a ten-pound tippet on each and you’ll be immediately enlightened. I can’t believe this thread has gone on so long. Bob Scott This is sooo true. The fish has to work much harder against an 8 wt rod. –tony
You all want to pass some of that stuff yer smokin’? I’ve caught plenty of fish in the size range to be able to tell the difference – Silvers, steelhead, chums. My six weight Sage can break a fish off on undamaged climax 2x tippet (about 10lb test), if held right on a strong enough fish. My 8 wgt can break heavier tippet, so what. With 2x tippet, it simply cannot pull harder than the six weight, since both are capable of breaking the line. This is explained by an obscure branch of science known as physics. What you all are saying is the equivalent of saying that a pickup can tow more than a bicycle, even though they are both connected to the trailer by 8 lb test. Replace the connection with a log chain, and you’re correct. However, log chain is fairly poor in it’s energy transference to the fly. Tough to tie a clinch knot, as well. In the range of tippets that the fellow is talking about, with the rods he is talking about, the six weight is fine for steelhead. I had ample opportunity to experiment in this area two years ago when I broke my 8 weight on a salmon, and had to finish the trip catching salmon with the six weight. After the trip, came back and was fishing sea run cutts. Hooked a big one, and still had the Alaska strike instinct (rear back hard, pull hard with the line hand). Popped the fly in one of the biggest cutthroats I’ve ever seen, who entertained me and my buddy with three jumps down stream, fly still in his jaw. 3x tippet, good knots, 6 wgt. I know whereof I speak… — Andrew Brunette
The 6wt rod I am referring to is a Sage 690 sp+ that is a stiff rod, I can put LOTS of pressure on a fish. I have yet to meet a steelie that the rod couldn’t handle, I keep a short line and fight the fish using angles. In other words, I keep the rod in opposite to the direction of movement of the fish, to the side. I find that after watching the other guys up here use their 8wts for steelies they don’t put anywhere near the amount of pressure that I do. they mostly use 6lb tippet, some times going down to 4lb, I never use anything less than 8lb. If that prevents me from catching fish so be it, but if it makes the difference between me catching fish and then over playing them then I will not do that. I have out fished guys using 8wts with 4 lb and even float fishermen. I feel that I can put the coals on just as much with those guys. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
My six weight Sage can break a fish off on undamaged climax 2x tippet (about 10lb test), if held right on a strong enough fish. My 8 wgt can break heavier tippet, so what. With 2x tippet, it simply cannot pull harder than the six weight, since both are capable of breaking the line. This is explained by an obscure branch of science known as physics.
…that you obviously have no grasp of. You didn’t read or comprehend my post. And, by the way, my two-weight can break an undamaged 10lb. tippet, too, if "held right." You are not breaking that tippet with rod pressure. If your six weight can lift ten pounds, I’ll eat my eight and nine weight rods. Like the other guy said, go ahead and put a ten-pound weight on the floor, put some heavy tippet on your miracle six-weight, get out your warranty card, and try to lift it up. I know you won’t try it. An eight-weight will lift more weight (still not ten pounds!) — apply more pressure — than a six-weight. Period. Why do you think people use 12-weights to fight big tarpon? Because they need a 12-weight to cast a lightly-dressed 3/0 fly? Not. Dan Gracia, why don’t you jump in on this one? You have a great way of explaining things. Bob Scott
If your six weight can lift ten pounds, I’ll eat my eight and nine weight rods. Like the other guy said, go ahead and put a ten-pound weight on the floor, put some heavy tippet on your miracle six-weight, get out your warranty card, and try to lift it up. I know you won’t try it. An eight-weight will lift more weight (still not ten pounds!) — apply more pressure — than a six-weight. Period. Why do you think people use 12-weights to fight big tarpon? Because they need a 12-weight to cast a lightly-dressed 3/0 fly? Not.
I think you have all forgotten the original "conondrum" , whether a 6 wt with 8 lb test can apply an equal amt of pressure as 8wt with 4lb tippet. to compare these two factors we apply logic and search for least common denominator between the two. For our purposes we will settle on the 4lb tippet. While on an equal basis, an 8wt rod will be able to apply more pressure than a 6wt, in this situation, the most amt of pressure the 8wt rod will be able to apply is 4lbs before the leader breaks. Likewise, the 6wt rod with 4lb leader will max out at 4lbs of pressure before the leader breaks.( hopefully we can all agree that a 6wt is capable of breaking 4lb tippet even though it may not be capable of breaking anything higher.) Since the 8wt is limited to 4 lb test, the real question becomes whether or not a 6 wt can apply more than 4lbs of pressure given the chance by using a stronger tippet, say 8lbs. whether it can or not doesn’t matter. the "conondrum" has been answered. Both rods will be able to apply at least 4 lbs of pressure, so in this exact situation, it doesn’t make a difference which setup you use, as both will be able to apply at least the same amt of pressure, so using a 6wt doesn’t put you at any diadvantage compared to the 8wt. Unaccounted factors: 1)No one ever uses their full tippet breaking strength. Applying 4 lbs of pressure to a 4 lb tippet is inviting disaster. 2lbs would be more like it, but we won’t take this into consideration as it will bring up more "conundrums". 2) Whether you can lift a weight with your rod is not a realistic comparison of breaking strength.it doesn’t take into account the speed of the pressure application and water tension which equally apply in real situations.
I was in the local flyshop and was chastized for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told thet I shold be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure?
The 6wt with 8lb tippet can put on more pressure. Ligther, more flexable rods protect tippets better. A lighter rod will flex more in the butt but you can still put pressure on the fish. The only reason people say you can’t put pressure on is fear of breaking the rod so size of fish is the question. How big are the steelhead you’re after? If they’re in the 4-10lb range then use the 6wt. If they are in the 15-20lb range, use an 8-9wt. The person using a stiffer, heavier rod with light tippet is putting more risk on the fish. Cheers, Jack
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastised for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told that I should be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, because have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutely no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statement on his part true?
Andrew, Another point is this discussion is that anyone who would chastise another as to one’s method of fishing, bothers me. Fred Halford and others includes…. As long as it is legal, reasonably sporting, and respects property rights and the rights of others near you, you ought to be able to fish with what works for you…… With a steady pull, one cannot exert 8 pounds of pressure on a tippet with a 9 foot rod…. So I think the way you apply pressure and way you avoid letting the fish rest between runs and pulls has a lot to do with how quickly one can land a fish… For example a fish hooked in the upper lip can be made to raise its head while fighting a very quickly tired…. as compared to one hooked in the rear lower edge of the mandible. If you have ever accidently hooked a fish in tail, you will know the outter limit of this difference… Keeping the fish upstream of you will also result in a quicker finish….. And in very clear water, that is not too fast, and not too deep, and 8 pound tippet may provide many fewer hook-ups… Lots of side to this issue…. but for someone to say….. only fish the way I advocate…. well, I would chalk that up and move on.. Alan E. Hoover to quote one of my favorite authors: "Fly fishing is such great fun, it really ought to be done in bed" John Voelker, aka Robert Traver
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastized for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told thet I shold be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, becauseI have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutly no sense to me.
The guy is full of unmitigated bull hooie. The tippet is the defining element. If you can break the tippet with the rod, and the tippet is strong enough to be appropriate for the fish, the rod is fine. And 3x tippet, from a reputable manufacturer, is strong enough for the average steelhead. If you were expecting to catch 20 lb fish all day, I might sing a different story, but the 8 to 12 lb fish I run into can be brought to the beach in 5 minutes with 8lb test leader, and that seems to let them swim away safely. I have caught 15 lb steelhead with my six weight, using 3x (=8lb) tippet, and been able to whip the steelhead quickly. I use 8lb leader for gear fishing with a meat stick, with the same, sporting, results. I think the average fisherman does not realize how much pressure can be put on a fish with today’s tippet material. — Andrew Brunette
How tightly do you set your drag? If you point your rod tip towards the fish and set the drag higher than when fishing with a 4 lb tippet then sure you will definitely apply more pressure. Your drag setting and how you hold the rod while fighting fish will determine the answer to your question. My guess is that you’ve got the drag setting at less than 4 lbs (would you dare jiggle a 1/2 gallon carton of milk from the end of your 6 wt rod?). So the guy at the shop is probably right. Mu Young Lee Ann Arbor, MI o oooo o o o o o o o o – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastized for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told thet I shold be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, becauseI have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutly no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statment on his part true? Andrew
Hi All, I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastised for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told that I should be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, because have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutely no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statement on his part true? Andrew
Hi All, I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastized for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told thet I shold be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, becauseI have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutly no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statment on his part true? Andrew
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastised for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told that I should be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, because have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutely no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statement on his part true?
Hi Andrew, Like many answers, this one is "it all depends". Obvoiusly 4 pound test line (presuming it is rated accurately) will break before 8 lb test. But the question is, "how much of that 8lb. test capacity are you really using?" The answer is "not nearly as much as you think your are." If you hook up your 6 wt. to a Chatillon scale and start bending the heck out of it, you will find it very hard to exert more than 5 lbs. of steady pressure (don’t break your rod trying to get that little bit more!). Quick jerks will exceed it but not steady pressure which is what you’re using when you’re fighting fish. An 8 wt. rod is much more capable of exerting that amount of steady pressure, though 8lbs of steady pressure will bend most 8 wt rods well into the butt. If you both used 8 lb. tippet then I’d say the 8wt. would be able to apply more of the tippet’s capacity more consistently than the 6wt. So, depending on how you fight the fish, the 8wt. would certainly be more capable of applying constant pressure at 4 lbs. than the 6 wt. An 8wt will however break 4lb. test pretty consistently so it requires a very good touch. If the comparison had been a 6wt. with 8lb. test vs an 8wt. with 6 lb. test, then I’d say the 8 wt would do the better job because it would be able to constantly use more of the tippets capacity than the 6wt. By changing the rod angle, you can change the amount of pressure on the fish. if you keep your rod tip up and the butt of the rod between 45 and 60 degrees, you get a maximum amount of shock absorption and comparatively little pressure on the fish. However, if you wind or strip in line until your rod angle is more like 30 degrees, anchor the line against the handle or reel, and then pull up and off to the side, you exert easily two to three times as much pressure. You are takin the tip of the rod out of the fight by doing this and using the butt of the rod to supply the lifting power. This is a good technique to use once you’ve got a fish beaten. It can break you off quickly if the fish is too fresh. Try this with a friend sometime. One hold the rod and the other hold the end of the line. Pull with both methods. The one bending the rod will think he is exerting huge amounts of pressure when he is not. As soon as the rod tip drops and then pulls, the difference is obvious. Hope this helps, Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish
You might want to contact the real experts at a place called G. Loomis. They have the tech. knowledge to give you the facts. try http://www.gloomis.com Regards, Capt. Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastized for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told thet I shold be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, becauseI have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutly no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statment on his part true? Andrew
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I have a question for all of you. I was in the local flyshop and was chastised for using a six weight for steelhed. I was told that I should be using at least an 8 wt, the reason being that you can put more pressure on the fish. My question is this, if I use a 6wt with 8lb tippet and this other guy uses an 8wt with 4 lb tippet, who puts on more pressure? I said me, because have a stronger tippet that I can really put the coals on with. He said no, he could apply more pressure because of the heavier rod. This make absolutely no sense to me. Casting, flies, wind considerations aside, is the above statement on his part true? Andrew
I agree with you with your specific example, I think you can put more pressure on a fish with a 6 wgt using an 8 lb tippet than you could with an 8 wgt using a 4 lb tippet. However, with a 6 or 8 weight rod both using for example an eight pound tippet, you could put more pressure on a fish with an 8 weight as a rule. Rod lengthn also figures in on this. You can put more pressure on a fish with a longer rod in the same line class. Action also plays into this. A fast rod can provide more pressure, but a softer rod is more forgiving and break offs are less likely. Obviously an angler’s skill is another factor. I think you use what works well for you just as long as the fish you catch (assuming you are releasing them) are landed in a short enough time that the fish will survive releasing. If you follow the reasoning of the guy in the shop, a 10 weight would be better, a 12 better still. Bet he doesn’t fish a 12. Willi
I can’t imagine fly fishing with a buzz in my head. -AR christ almighty beer is not heroin, man… Beer is no heroin. But fly fishing is no hardware fishing either.
true…flyfishing is much easier…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t imagine fly fishing with a buzz in my head. -AR christ almighty beer is not heroin, man… Beer is no heroin. But fly fishing is no hardware fishing either. I hesitate to take aspirin before ff. Want all my senses at 100%. That’s how you catch big fish. Cheers, -Ande Rychter
I wish I would have known that fishing without a buzz would improved my fishing back in the sixties. I might have caught some real big ones. Don Kelly
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t imagine fly fishing with a buzz in my head. -AR christ almighty beer is not heroin, man… Beer is no heroin. But fly fishing is no hardware fishing either. I hesitate to take aspirin before ff. Want all my senses at 100%. That’s how you catch big fish. Cheers, -Ande Rychter I wish I would have known that fishing without a buzz would improved my fishing back in the sixties. I might have caught some real big ones.
Buzzes or Fish ? TimW
Yes, the good old sixties. T Wigs.
Why brake? Cheap tying materials.
T Wigs
: Beer is no heroin. But fly fishing is no hardware fishing either. : I hesitate to take aspirin before ff. Want all my senses at 100%. : That’s how you catch big fish. No wonder I’m stuck in the 12 inch trout range. I’ve been taking aspirin all these years! Thanks for the tip Ande. Coming back this way again this year? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher – http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry | That’s Idaho, not Iowa. | ad hominem University of Idaho | Upper Left Hand Corner. | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343 | No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem
I can’t imagine fly fishing with a buzz in my head. -AR christ almighty beer is not heroin, man…
If a couple of pulls on the bottle leave you too buzzed to fish then I wouldn’t touch the stuff at all ! "I brake for animals and speed up for PETA" Brian Di Carlo
I can’t imagine fly fishing with a buzz in my head. -AR christ almighty beer is not heroin, man…
Beer is no heroin. But fly fishing is no hardware fishing either. I hesitate to take aspirin before ff. Want all my senses at 100%. That’s how you catch big fish. Cheers, -Ande Rychter
I can’t imagine fly fishing with a buzz in my head. -AR
I can’t imagine fly fishing with a buzz in my head. -AR
christ almighty beer is not heroin, man…
Simple question– is there any way to overcome the problem of wanting to cast a small, light floating lure out onto a lake–when the durn thing is too light to cast farther than the closest tule? I’ve used split shot and put the lure on a real long leader, but that only works to a certain depth. Any thoughts or tips appreciated! Randy
I came by this by accident, when my nephew shut the car door on the tip of a flyrod of mine. It lopped off about 8 inches and made it tough to use as a flyrod again. During the big snow storms we had tthis winter I was messing around in the basement and found two old spinning reels Wasn’t using anymore and cleaned them up. Looking around, I spotted the old flyrod and decided what the hell and taped one on. I took it out two days ago and it acts like a 7 1/2 foot long ultralight. It’ll sling the smallest rebel minow a pretty far distance . Haven’t caught anything on it yet but I think it will do great for crappie and other small fish, and a small mouth will probably be something else. The rod seems to load itself, so the weight of the lure doesn’t matter as much. Bill C.
: to cast a small, light floating lure out onto a lake–when the durn : thing is too light to cast farther than the closest tule? : I’ve used split shot and put the lure on a real long leader, but : that only works to a certain depth. Any thoughts or tips appreciated! : A very light, longish rod can help (spinning, of course…). Or a flyrod… More practically, use a small bobber for weight. … greg pavlov
And I have heard of this baitfisherman’s trick: use an ice cube or a sugar cube as a "sinker". You wrap the line around your ice cube in a double hitch and pull for a moment – the line is supposed to cut in a bit. Then you cast and the extra weight melts/dissolves. It sounds like it might work for baits that sit there for a while. I haven’t tried it myself…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Simple question– is there any way to overcome the problem of wanting to cast a small, light floating lure out onto a lake–when the durn thing is too light to cast farther than the closest tule? I’ve used split shot and put the lure on a real long leader, but that only works to a certain depth. Any thoughts or tips appreciated! Randy — Randy: The simplest solution is to attach a bobber about 36" above the lure. The bobber provides plenty of wieght for casting, but won’t sink your floating lure. If you’re concerned about the bobber spooking the fish, use one of the small clear plastic jobs. Good fishing…. Robert Maxwell
There are bobbers made specifically for this purpose, like the clear plastic ones Robert mentions. They hamper your ability to control the lure, like for small poppers. But, they do allow you to cast a very light lure without learning to use a fly rod. Of course, the other option is to buy a fly rod/reel and start practicing. That’s something I can do when I retire. 8-] Richard
Simple question– is there any way to overcome the problem of wanting to cast a small, light floating lure out onto a lake–when the durn thing is too light to cast farther than the closest tule? I’ve used split shot and put the lure on a real long leader, but that only works to a certain depth. Any thoughts or tips appreciated!
I’d try the same technique for casting a fly (with a spinning rod) long distance. Try a clear plastic bubble. You can control the depth by changing the amount of water you put in it. Fill it about halfway and it won’t sink. Using an ultralight rod and reel with 2# test line (max) will make it much easier as well. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY
: Simple question– is there any way to overcome the problem of wanting : to cast a small, light floating lure out onto a lake–when the durn : thing is too light to cast farther than the closest tule? : I’ve used split shot and put the lure on a real long leader, but : that only works to a certain depth. Any thoughts or tips appreciated! : Randy : — : Randy: : The simplest solution is to attach a bobber about 36" above the lure. You can also use a lighter test line. Next, start fooling around with rod/reel combos, but that’s more expensive. — Jeff Smith Graduate student http://www.msc.cornell.edu/~jeffs Cornell University, Ithaca, NY
Simple question– is there any way to overcome the problem of wanting to cast a small, light floating lure out onto a lake–when the durn thing is too light to cast farther than the closest tule? I’ve used split shot and put the lure on a real long leader, but that only works to a certain depth. Any thoughts or tips appreciated! Randy —
Randy: The simplest solution is to attach a bobber about 36" above the lure. The bobber provides plenty of wieght for casting, but won’t sink your floating lure. If you’re concerned about the bobber spooking the fish, use one of the small clear plastic jobs. Good fishing…. Robert Maxwell
Simple question– is there any way to overcome the problem of wanting to cast a small, light floating lure out onto a lake–when the durn thing is too light to cast farther than the closest tule? I’ve used split shot and put the lure on a real long leader, but that only works to a certain depth. Any thoughts or tips appreciated! Randy —