- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Okay, I realize this may be a tall order, but I’m looking for any helpful info on fishing (mostly stream) the upper peninsula of Michigan. Will be staying just outside Kenton the first week of September, and I’m thinking my already sub-par knowledge of Arkansas tailwater ff will only carry me so far in this strange new land. Since the UP seems to be teeming with fishable water, I was mostly hoping someone could help me narrow things down a bit. A Google search of the group revealed multiple references to the area, but little in the way of straightforward advice. If it helps, I’ll be limited to wading with a 5wt. outfit, and probably won’t get much further than 1-1.5 hours from Kenton during the trip. I will have access by boat to one particular small lake. Other than that, I’m pretty much at a loss for where to go/what to use. (I don’t even know the name of the lake.) Heaps o’ thanks in advance. As you can probably guess, I’m excited as all get out. JD
Kenton sits right on the east branch of the Ontonagon river. Lots of good trout water. Sparrow rapids, about two miles downstream from town is a popular spot to put in and fish. There’s also a campground there. Get a good map (the DeLorme atlases are about as good as you can get and are available in most sporting goods stores and bookstores) and explore. The Paint, the Net, Cook’s Run, Trout Creek, the Jumbo, the Sturgeon, and the other branches of the Ontonagon are all within an easy drive, as are many other small streams. Wolfgang
Justin, I am sure your "sub-par" knowledge of AR tailwaters is considerably more than my "extremely limited" knowledge of that area. I plan to visit the North Fork in a month or so and then again in the fall or winter. Any info you can share would be greatly appreciated. I too am limited to wading and light to medium weight flyfishing equipment. Thanks in advance, guy
already sub-par knowledge of Arkansas tailwater ff will only carry me so
far
Kenton sits right on the east branch of the Ontonagon river. Lots of good trout water. Sparrow rapids, about two miles downstream from town is a popular spot to put in and fish. There’s also a campground there. Get a good map (the DeLorme atlases are about as good as you can get and are available in most sporting goods stores and bookstores) and explore. The Paint, the Net, Cook’s Run, Trout Creek, the Jumbo, the Sturgeon, and the other branches of the Ontonagon are all within an easy drive, as are many other small streams. Wolfgang
I fwd’d your reply to my trip buddy this morning and received a 4-word response: "Wolfgang is our friend." Thanks so much for the help. Along with the DeLorme and a copy of Michigan Trout Streams, a printout of your advice should provide ample direction throughout the week. Thanks again… JD officially foaming at the mouth
Justin, I am sure your "sub-par" knowledge of AR tailwaters is considerably more than my "extremely limited" knowledge of that area. I plan to visit the North Fork in a month or so and then again in the fall or winter. Any info you can share would be greatly appreciated. I too am limited to wading and light to medium weight flyfishing equipment. Thanks in advance, guy
Dang. I knew I shoulda left that part out. Aside from an ample supply of light tippet, woolly buggers and sow bugs, the best piece of equipment you can take is a cell phone with the Bull Shoals/Norfork powerhouse number, 870.431.5311. The North Fork is right under Norfork Dam, so any amount of generation means you’re outta luck. I spent four days there this spring. Reading. If you’re that close, you should consider the short trip (4 miles and onward) to the White as well (under Bull Shoals dam). Much better help than mine, along with decent maps, access points and reports can be found here: http://www.ozarkangler.com/river/ There are numerous other places on the web to find info. Just stay attuned to water levels at all times. When it starts to rise, get out. Immediately. On the upside, North Fork goes down quickly when generation stops, and is a only few miles long, so you can hear the powerhouse siren nearly all the way down to the White. Oh, and the fishing rocks. You can also track generation (it can give you some idea about current schedules, but don’t set your watch by it) here: http://www.swpa.gov/generation.htm Finally, talk to the locals. They’re good people. They’re usually taking up all the really good spots, but they’re good people… JD
Thanks Justin! Greatly appereciate the information. I will follow up on your sources as well as keep an eye on the generation schedules. I was there this spring and did a fair share of reading myself. I asked one of the locals "how high was the water compared to a regular fishable flow?" He said "The dam would have to break for the water to go any higher". I smiled and kept on reading. guy
My pleasure, man. Best of luck. JD
…Thanks…
You’re welcome. Wolfgang
Thanks Justin! Greatly appereciate the information. I will follow up on your sources as well as keep an eye on the generation schedules. I was there this spring and did a fair share of reading myself. I asked one of the locals "how high was the water compared to a regular fishable flow?" He said "The dam would have to break for the water to go any higher". I smiled and kept on reading. guy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Justin, I am sure your "sub-par" knowledge of AR tailwaters is considerably more than my "extremely limited" knowledge of that area. I plan to visit the North Fork in a month or so and then again in the fall or winter. Any info you can share would be greatly appreciated. I too am limited to wading and light to medium weight flyfishing equipment. Thanks in advance, guy Dang. I knew I shoulda left that part out. Aside from an ample supply of light tippet, woolly buggers and sow bugs, the best piece of equipment you can take is a cell phone with the Bull Shoals/Norfork powerhouse number, 870.431.5311. The North Fork is right under Norfork Dam, so any amount of generation means you’re outta luck. I spent four days there this spring. Reading. If you’re that close, you should consider the short trip (4 miles and onward) to the White as well (under Bull Shoals dam). Much better help than mine, along with decent maps, access points and reports can be found here: http://www.ozarkangler.com/river/ There are numerous other places on the web to find info. Just stay attuned to water levels at all times. When it starts to rise, get out. Immediately. On the upside, North Fork goes down quickly when generation stops, and is a only few miles long, so you can hear the powerhouse siren nearly all the way down to the White. Oh, and the fishing rocks. You can also track generation (it can give you some idea about current schedules, but don’t set your watch by it) here: http://www.swpa.gov/generation.htm Finally, talk to the locals. They’re good people. They’re usually taking up all the really good spots, but they’re good people… JD
Okay, I realize this may be a tall order, but I’m looking for any helpful info on fishing (mostly stream) the upper peninsula of Michigan. Will be staying just outside Kenton the first week of September, and I’m thinking my already sub-par knowledge of Arkansas tailwater ff will only carry me so far in this strange new land. Since the UP seems to be teeming with fishable water, I was mostly hoping someone could help me narrow things down a bit. A Google search of the group revealed multiple references to the area, but little in the way of straightforward advice. If it helps, I’ll be limited to wading with a 5wt. outfit, and probably won’t get much further than 1-1.5 hours from Kenton during the trip. I will have access by boat to one particular small lake. Other than that, I’m pretty much at a loss for where to go/what to use. (I don’t even know the name of the lake.) Heaps o’ thanks in advance. As you can probably guess, I’m excited as all get out. JD
Any ideas???? Terry
gherke invented it of course, just ask him <G cb
Amazing what one may learn on here, I never realised that the expression "dickhead" had such historical connotations ! 
TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de <SNIP LLBeanian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the shockingly crude preserved penile adornment which was, one can only surmise, worn as a headdress by the leaders. The hypothesis that <SNIP –waldo submitted with all due respect, literary license of published article (http://www.med.abaco-mac.it/issue001/articles/doc/006.htm) used.
LaPlacian industry is a myth. There is no supporting archaeological evidence whatsoever that the pugilistic LaPlac sloth were ever industrious during the upper paleolithic period of Orvian neandertal times. Even the more conservative estimate carries the significant implication that many opportunities for acculturation must have occurred through contact between groups living on each side of the frontier. [snipped, regrettably]
Enjoying another cold beverage tonight, eh my friend? –Steve (looks like next Thursday’s the day. Really… No, I mean it
There have been tantalizing recent finds at the Orvis site in Portugal. Dated reliably at 33,000 years old, this is among the most recent Homo neandertal sites in the world. Extremely small hooks made of tempered bone have been found. These finds are associated with fossilized mites, specific to certain avian and mammal hosts, and with fossilized pollen specific to fibrous plant material of the type used for making thread. Archeologists have discovered elaborate burial sites, in which the body (presumably of the chief or head man) was decorated with literally hundreds of these hooks (ranging from about #18 to #10.). Also associated with the burial sites are the fossilized bones of remarkably large pisciverous specimens…..
It should come as no surprise to anyone here that there ARE different interpretations of these findings. The plenitude of so-called "venus" figurines at paleolithic sites throughout Europe has been taken to suggest that the patriarchal religious cults so prevalent today were once the exception rather than the rule. Many archeologists and paleontologists today believe that goddess worship was the norm for the time; a theory bolstered by the large role played by goddesses in many "primitive" societies throughout recorded history. The currently popular "sleeps with the fishes" school holds that the hooks found on the Orvis remains suggest a rather more sinister scenario than that posited by adherents to the "sport" theory. The presumed perforation of the deceased by hundreds of sharp implements, so the theory goes, may be seen as a metaphor, and retribution, for the collective domination and penetration, not only of the women of the tribe, but also of the mother goddess Earth herself. Needless to say, much work remains to be done at this and other similar sites. Wolfgang Chairman, Revision Committee
My theory is they starved to death after embracing C+R. JonCook.
That is a reasonable hypothesis, Jonathan, but it doesn’t explain the sudden ascendance of Homo sapiens. Another peculiar fact about these Orvis people that I didn’t mention, however, but that supports your hypothesis, is that despite the compelling fossil evidence for elaborate fishing rituals, there is no evidence whatsoever that they actually consumed fish. Indeed, all the evidence points to a "totem fish culture," which elevated fish to god-like status. Perhaps the leading hypothesis about the dimise of the Orvis neandertals is that they increasingly diverted their resources to opulent displays of wealth, symbolized by the fish hooks in their elaborate burial ceremonies, rather like the ancient Egyptians and Aztecs of historical times. The "conspicuous consumption" of wasting the hooks [*], so this theory goes, established a corrupt, aristocratic class structure that was ripe for the picking by Homo sapiens, which had recently migrated from northern Africa (where there is no fishing to speak of, and never has been). Quite by coincidence, supporting evidence for this hypothesis comes from the recently re-opened, contemporaneous LaPlac site in the Loire Valley of France. It seems that thse LaPlac neandertals copied the Orvis fishing toolkit literally, even slavishly. There is some evidence that Orvis technology was even exported to the LaPlac site. [*] Reconstructions of the manufacture of these hooks, some of which are elaborately carved despite their small size, yields an estimate of 40 man hours required to make each hook, which is in stark contrast to the approximately 4 man hours required to produce a functionally equivalent, and even superior hook without useless ornamentation. [**] As I mentioned previously, the proponents of the "hybridization" hypothesis point to the modern flyfishing compulsion of Homo sapiens, with its elaborate, conspicuous display of wealth and "insider knowledge", to support their theory. The opposing "takeover and eat" school replies that this is merely a case of convergent evolution. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
SPLOOORRRKK!!!!! Danl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any ideas???? Terry gherke invented it of course, just ask him <G cb
Was this prehistoric Gink? JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yep, the first flies were pieces of intestine and feces smeared on a hook… they hadn’t become no-scent purists yet.
Any ideas???? Terry
Any ideas???? Terry
The Brits tied bits of fur to hooks and flung them about underwater. The Germans were hijacked as mercenaries and brought their floating feather bugs with them to the States. Both used long, stiff sticks to wildly flail the water. The Americans, watching from the bushes, thought there was a buck to be made. They immediately incorporated both methods into an intricate pattern of air-born manipulations using a limber bamboo pole. Some bamboo pole users used worms and became known as bait slingers. Some bamboo pole users continued with the bits of fur and feather and became known as fly fishermen. This all occurred in Virginia, just outside the Hessian POW camp at Charlottsville. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.
This history begins with the first recorded description of fishing with a fly (in Macedonia), written by Aelian around 200 AD. It’s likely that someone may have attached fur or feather to a hook well before that, but I don’t know of the existence of any convincing archeological evidence. There have been tantalizing recent finds at the Orvis site in Portugal. Dated reliably at 33,000 years old…
Wow, Orvis has been around longer than I had realized. :-) - Ken — "A wedding is just like a funeral except that you get to smell your own flowers." – Grace Hansen
lol steve…. i’d say yer ’bout primed for the juan. happy hunti…uhmm, fishin’… –walt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This history begins with the first recorded description of fishing with a fly (in Macedonia), written by Aelian around 200 AD. It’s likely that someone may have attached fur or feather to a hook well before that, but I don’t know of the existence of any convincing archeological evidence. There have been tantalizing recent finds at the Orvis site in Portugal. Dated reliably at 33,000 years old, this is among the most recent Homo neandertal sites in the world. Extremely small hooks made of tempered bone have been found. These finds are associated with fossilized mites, specific to certain avian and mammal hosts, and with fossilized pollen specific to fibrous plant material of the type used for making thread. Archeologists have discovered elaborate burial sites, in which the body (presumably of the chief or head man) was decorated with literally hundreds of these hooks (ranging from about #18 to #10.). Also associated with the burial sites are the fossilized bones of remarkably large pisciverous specimens. As a side note, it is especially curious that these hooks lack barbs, Alas, after 33,000 BP (before present), all traces of Homo neandertalis disappear from the Orvis site, aside from a thin layer of charred bones. They are replaced in the higher, more recent stata by Homo sapiens. A scientific controversy rages over whether the invaders exterminated (and apparently ate) neandertalis, or whether they interbred and hybridized with them. Supporters of the hybridization hypothesis point to the obseesion with flyfishing in modern Homo sapiens as evidence that we have, indeed, inherited neandertalis genes. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
– Ezflyfish.com: http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This history begins with the first recorded description of fishing with a fly (in Macedonia), written by Aelian around 200 AD. It’s likely that someone may have attached fur or feather to a hook well before that, but I don’t know of the existence of any convincing archeological evidence. There have been tantalizing recent finds at the Orvis site in Portugal. Dated reliably at 33,000 years old, this is among the most recent Homo neandertal sites in the world. Extremely small hooks made of tempered bone have been found. These finds are associated with fossilized mites, specific to certain avian and mammal hosts, and with fossilized pollen specific to fibrous plant material of the type used for making thread. Archeologists have discovered elaborate burial sites, in which the body (presumably of the chief or head man) was decorated with literally hundreds of these hooks (ranging from about #18 to #10.). Also associated with the burial sites are the fossilized bones of remarkably large pisciverous specimens. As a side note, it is especially curious that these hooks lack barbs, Alas, after 33,000 BP (before present), all traces of Homo neandertalis disappear from the Orvis site, aside from a thin layer of charred bones. They are replaced in the higher, more recent stata by Homo sapiens. A scientific controversy rages over whether the invaders exterminated (and apparently ate) neandertalis, or whether they interbred and hybridized with them. Supporters of the hybridization hypothesis point to the obseesion with flyfishing in modern Homo sapiens as evidence that we have, indeed, inherited neandertalis genes.
Actually RW, I saw a TV program about the transition between Neanthertal and sapiens; there was a distinct argument that they hybridised. Mmm, could it be, that we here fly anglers are descended from union between sapiens and neandertal. Mmm, that 4 foot haul…..
Seems Orvis has been at it for longer than I thought ! Did they find any fossilised dog baskets ? TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de
: large pisciverous specimens. As a side note, it is especially curious : that these hooks lack barbs, : Alas, after 33,000 BP (before present), all traces of Homo neandertalis : disappear from the Orvis site, aside from a thin layer of charred bones. My theory is they starved to death after embracing C+R. JonCook. — Are you a r.o.f.f. newbie? Then see http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~jcook/ROFF/
Seems Orvis has been at it for longer than I thought ! Did they find any fossilised dog baskets ?
No but I heard that they did find some fossilized Orvis firewood in the communal fire pit. Jon
My theory is they starved to death after embracing C+R.
Or inadvertently following Timbo’s trail.
My theory is they starved to death after embracing C+R. JonCook. That is a reasonable hypothesis, Jonathan, but it doesn’t explain the sudden ascendance of Homo sapiens. Another peculiar fact about these Orvis people that I didn’t mention, however, but that supports your hypothesis, is that despite the compelling fossil evidence for elaborate fishing rituals, there is no evidence whatsoever that they actually consumed fish. Indeed, all the evidence points to a "totem fish culture," which elevated fish to god-like status.
possible support of what you say rw is at this link: http://www.trollart.com/FSHWRSHP.html 8< Quite by coincidence, supporting evidence for this hypothesis comes fromthe recently re-opened, contemporaneous LaPlac site in the Loire Valleyof France. It seems that thse LaPlac neandertals copied the Orvisfishing toolkit literally, even slavishly. There is some evidence that Orvis technology was even exported to the LaPlac site.
LaPlacian industry is a myth. There is no supporting archaeological evidence whatsoever that the pugilistic LaPlac sloth were ever industrious during the upper paleolithic period of Orvian neandertal times. Even the more conservative estimate carries the significant implication that many opportunities for acculturation must have occurred through contact between groups living on each side of the frontier. In spite of this, LaPlacian Neandertals south of the mountains never became Upper Paleolithic and retained traditional Middle Paleolithic technologies and primitive LLBeanian tool-kits until the end: blade debitage is unknown in the late Orvian of the area, as are bone tools and personal adornments, with exception of course, the shockingly crude preserved penile adornment which was, one can only surmise, worn as a headdress by the leaders. The hypothesis that acculturation of LaPlacian neandertals would inevitably follow from contact with moderns and is the only possible explanation for the Fortenberrian and similar cultural phenomena must be, therefore, the object of serious inquiry. –waldo submitted with all due respect, literary license of published article (http://www.med.abaco-mac.it/issue001/articles/doc/006.htm) used.
Terry, I have read that fishing with a feathered lure was done in Egypt long before it was done in England.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any ideas???? Terry
Terry, I have read that fishing with a feathered lure was done in Egypt long before it was done in England.
Fish hooks go back to prehistory. It’s hard to believe that someone, somewhere in the stone age didn’t try an artificial lure made of fur or feathers. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
Fish hooks go back to prehistory. It’s hard to believe that someone, somewhere in the stone age didn’t try an artificial lure made of fur
or feathers. Stone "toggle hooks" are common finds in pre-histoic Native American sites along Virginia’s estuaries. Seems like I recall early explorer accounts of the natives using feathers as part of "fish lures". Fishing line was deer sinew. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.
Terry, You can find a short on-line history of fly-fishing at: http://www.flyfishinghistory.com/contents.htm This history begins with the first recorded description of fishing with a fly (in Macedonia), written by Aelian around 200 AD. It’s likely that someone may have attached fur or feather to a hook well before that, but I don’t know of the existence of any convincing archeological evidence. JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any ideas????
Fish hooks go back to prehistory. It’s hard to believe that someone, somewhere in the stone age didn’t try an artificial lure made of fur or feathers. Stone "toggle hooks" are common finds in pre-histoic Native American sites along Virginia’s estuaries. Seems like I recall early explorer accounts of the natives using feathers as part of "fish lures". Fishing line was deer sinew. —
I forget what the bone was called, but deer also provided a "hook" from each hoove. –walt
This history begins with the first recorded description of fishing with a fly (in Macedonia), written by Aelian around 200 AD. It’s likely that someone may have attached fur or feather to a hook well before that, but I don’t know of the existence of any convincing archeological evidence.
There have been tantalizing recent finds at the Orvis site in Portugal. Dated reliably at 33,000 years old, this is among the most recent Homo neandertal sites in the world. Extremely small hooks made of tempered bone have been found. These finds are associated with fossilized mites, specific to certain avian and mammal hosts, and with fossilized pollen specific to fibrous plant material of the type used for making thread. Archeologists have discovered elaborate burial sites, in which the body (presumably of the chief or head man) was decorated with literally hundreds of these hooks (ranging from about #18 to #10.). Also associated with the burial sites are the fossilized bones of remarkably large pisciverous specimens. As a side note, it is especially curious that these hooks lack barbs, Alas, after 33,000 BP (before present), all traces of Homo neandertalis disappear from the Orvis site, aside from a thin layer of charred bones. They are replaced in the higher, more recent stata by Homo sapiens. A scientific controversy rages over whether the invaders exterminated (and apparently ate) neandertalis, or whether they interbred and hybridized with them. Supporters of the hybridization hypothesis point to the obseesion with flyfishing in modern Homo sapiens as evidence that we have, indeed, inherited neandertalis genes. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
Tempered bones. LOL. JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There have been tantalizing recent finds at the Orvis site in Portugal. ……etc.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This history begins with the first recorded description of fishing with a fly (in Macedonia), written by Aelian around 200 AD. It’s likely that someone may have attached fur or feather to a hook well before that, but I don’t know of the existence of any convincing archeological evidence. There have been tantalizing recent finds at the Orvis site in Portugal. Dated reliably at 33,000 years old, this is among the most recent Homo neandertal sites in the world. Extremely small hooks made of tempered bone have been found. These finds are associated with fossilized mites, specific to certain avian and mammal hosts, and with fossilized pollen specific to fibrous plant material of the type used for making thread. Archeologists have discovered elaborate burial sites, in which the body (presumably of the chief or head man) was decorated with literally hundreds of these hooks (ranging from about #18 to #10.). Also associated with the burial sites are the fossilized bones of remarkably large pisciverous specimens. As a side note, it is especially curious that these hooks lack barbs,
Mmm, catch and release too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Alas, after 33,000 BP (before present), all traces of Homo neandertalis disappear from the Orvis site, aside from a thin layer of charred bones. They are replaced in the higher, more recent stata by Homo sapiens. A scientific controversy rages over whether the invaders exterminated (and apparently ate) neandertalis, or whether they interbred and hybridized with them. Supporters of the hybridization hypothesis point to the obseesion with flyfishing in modern Homo sapiens as evidence that we have, indeed, inherited neandertalis genes. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
My friends, lend me your eyes. But it WILL require EVERYONE to cooperate, or the effort is doomed to fail.
Definitely worth a try. George and Co. have never got under my skin (mind you I do see how they can), but I suspect a little tolerance and a big dose of common sense could see us get through. Like the trout we talk often about, we need to be more selective in the lures or baits that we take – and ignore the baits some Cheers JK
(snipped)
Dave, Add a clause that I am to have all of my deposit retuned in FULL! If you would please. I would like this corrected before moving on. HT
______ Not fair Mark. Very undeserving, especially from someone that should be a fair minded attorney? sigh* MR. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat
We’ll simply leave the past in the past – where it belongs – while implicitly forgiving the transgressions that may have taken place in that time. No apologies required by anyone; everyone saves face by default.
This would work if folks had learned anything from what happened in the past, but I don’t think that’s true in all cases. Forgetting the past is a dangerous thing, especially in this case which is in its’ umpteenth cycle in the little passion play called roff. My advice is to ignore the trolls but continue to be wary of the troller (the poetry could start again, you know<g). — Charlie…
What I’m proposing is the group allows George a fresh start – and that in turn, George not abuse that act of faith and trust.
Sounds good to me. Will it work? Unlikely, but let’s give it a shot. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)
Well said, Peter. This is not a matter of anti-George or pro-George. The guy has a screw loose, and as much as I enjoy picking on him occasionally it is not good for either of us. Time to treat him like the meower. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [genuine, noble effort snipped] Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper) Trip, I’ve met a few men like George in my life and in all the time I knew them, they never changed for the better. After all, why change when you’re perfect. :) Anyway, for any peace to accrue in these parts, we simply have to give George’s spamming and trolling the same consideration as we’ve given the meower. The most important thing in George’s life is to be the constant centre of everyone’s attention. Forty and fifty post threads with the subject "Mr. G." are his lifeblood. George cannot post without taunting and boasting about his stuff anymore than I’d qualify for the clergy. Given that, it’s up to the rest of us to take the pledge: I do solemnly swear to not respond to any of George’s spamming, trolling, baiting and taunting, no matter how serious the provocation, so help me ROFF. No doubt that as is the pledge becomes effective, the George spam-o-meter will go off the dial as he responds in the attempt to reassert himself as the centre of the universe, but within a reasonably short space of time if we stick to the pledge, peace will reign supreme on the G front. Peter
Dave, As one who just watched the thread, I hereby make a pledge and vow not to fall for his trolls in the future, no matter how strongly provoked. Gandhi once said, The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.
Happy New Year David. I forgive you. ; ) Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat
<good suggestions snipped Dave, As one who just watched the thread, I hereby make a pledge and vow not to fall for his trolls in the future, no matter how strongly provoked. Gandhi once said, The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. Best Regards, Dave Blackett aka bc. — Angling may be said to be so like the mathematics that it can never be fully learnt — Izaak Walton
Wayne, Of course you are correct about this. He changed his sign from Mr. G to Mr Gink just for this purpose. He seems to be a firm believer in "there is no such thing as bad publicity". I for one do not welcome George back to ROFF because I am a believer in the saying "a leopard can’t change it’s spots". It won’t be long until he reverts back to the old George that he wants everyone to forget. I am placing him back on my filter and I hope the members of ROFF don’t repeat too many of his posts in their posts. Happy New Year Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dave, in watching the current Nymphing ROFF thread a couple of things come to mind regarding your suggestions. The very people attacking George most adamantly are performing for him a great service. A primary tenent of marketing strategy is repeating your product name before the public. Even though some people try to make it a negative conotation their comments still serve the strategy. On the other hand, some of George’s posts seem to suggest he intentionally invites controversy (ie. twitch, twitch). Given the possibility of an element of intentional provocation and the natural tendency in ROFF for detailed personal defense, I have doubts even the best devised guidelines will serve your intended purpose. In any case, I’m afraid the horse has bolted the gate and is already on the course. Wayne
[genuine, noble effort snipped] Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper)
Trip, I’ve met a few men like George in my life and in all the time I knew them, they never changed for the better. After all, why change when you’re perfect. :) Anyway, for any peace to accrue in these parts, we simply have to give George’s spamming and trolling the same consideration as we’ve given the meower. The most important thing in George’s life is to be the constant centre of everyone’s attention. Forty and fifty post threads with the subject "Mr. G." are his lifeblood. George cannot post without taunting and boasting about his stuff anymore than I’d qualify for the clergy. Given that, it’s up to the rest of us to take the pledge: I do solemnly swear to not respond to any of George’s spamming, trolling, baiting and taunting, no matter how serious the provocation, so help me ROFF. No doubt that as is the pledge becomes effective, the George spam-o-meter will go off the dial as he responds in the attempt to reassert himself as the centre of the universe, but within a reasonably short space of time if we stick to the pledge, peace will reign supreme on the G front. Peter
holy shit tripper…whatever it is that induced this, can ya send me a shipment? i’ve a bunch of clients that need a dose (toke?) immediately! seriously though – nice thought and hope it works. jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My friends, lend me your eyes. This constant warring between the pro- and anti- George factions is taking a toll on my karma. And I don’t like it. And I don’t see a need for it to continue. There CAN be peace on roff in my time, if everyone could simply make an investment in faith and trust. But it WILL require EVERYONE to cooperate, or the effort is doomed to fail. As one participant in this group who was the target of a series of slanderous attacks last fall from the same person that I had previously defended in this place, I think I have the right to make the following proposal. I’m willing to forgive and forget, without anyone having to apologize to me, and move on with life. I’d appreciate it if you all would read this, and consider it. At this point you should all know that I certainly don’t have any stake in this, outside of the desire to establish the peace and maintain some sense of decorum. I am hereby proposing that a deal be struck between George and those who so far just can’t seem to forgive mistakes made in the past. If faithfully followed, the group will regain a gregarious fellow with a long and interesting flyfishing background and experience. In return the group won’t be forced to endure further onslaughts of unsolicited advertisements and suspect product endorsements. Here’s the deal. It’s damned simple: Part 1. The parties of the first part – George Gehrke, his employees, his partners, resellers, and anyone else with a financial interest in George’s business interests – will refrain from unsolicited merchandizing of his various products in this forum, just like the conduct expected of any other commercial interest. Part 2. All other parties will refrain from continuing their relentless attacks on George for any perceived transgression(s) presumed to have been perpetrated by George in the past. Further, if said parties have nothing meaningful to contribute to any ongoing topic or thread in this conference where George is a contributor, they should post nothing at all. What I’m proposing is the group allows George a fresh start – and that in turn, George not abuse that act of faith and trust. Reasonable people may disagree with what constitutes "suitable context" – but if someone comes looking for stuff that makes things sink or float – or are shopping for cane rods or blanks – I would consider those instances to be proper context where George could suggest that he has a solution worth considering. This doesn’t give George a green light to insult the intelligence or sensibilities of the group with over-the-top advertisements. Nor should a follow-up post by George suggesting that he has a product that will solve a problem constitute a red flag waving at those who currently have a penchant to attack each and every post that George makes. I believe that this would be a worthwhile project for this group – and George – to take on, with the advent of the new year. I offer it as a way for everyone to make a peace – and hopefully a long lasting one – without anyone having to apologize, confess, or otherwise atone for past mistakes of judgement or passion. We’ll simply leave the past in the past – where it belongs – while implicitly forgiving the transgressions that may have taken place in that time. No apologies required by anyone; everyone saves face by default. Could this work? Yes, if the group is committed to peace. Please consider it. Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper)
(Well thought and balanced guidelines snipped) Dave, in watching the current Nymphing ROFF thread a couple of things come to mind regarding your suggestions. The very people attacking George most adamantly are performing for him a great service. A primary tenent of marketing strategy is repeating your product name before the public. Even though some people try to make it a negative conotation their comments still serve the strategy. On the other hand, some of George’s posts seem to suggest he intentionally invites controversy (ie. twitch, twitch). Given the possibility of an element of intentional provocation and the natural tendency in ROFF for detailed personal defense, I have doubts even the best devised guidelines will serve your intended purpose. In any case, I’m afraid the horse has bolted the gate and is already on the course. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.
Amen and amen. However, I think it should only pertain to posts from George and his employees. George might have influence but not control over others that have a financial interest in his products. It is true that George could influenced other people that have a "financial interest" in his products to make an advertizing post. However, it is also possible that the other person is acting independently. If we then baroque Mr. G, we are in the wrong. Maybe my suggestion is more long-suffering than yours, but I think it’s truly the most fair one. Let’s give Mr. G. the benefit of the doubt when we can. Mr. G. will either hang or prove himself. We just need to give him enough rope to tie a noose or pull himself ashore. Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Part 1. The parties of the first part – George Gehrke, his employees, his partners, resellers, and anyone else with a financial interest in George’s business interests – will refrain from unsolicited merchandizing of his various products in this forum, just like the conduct expected of any other commercial interest. Part 2. All other parties will refrain from continuing their relentless attacks on George for any perceived transgression(s) presumed to have been perpetrated by George in the past. Further, if said parties have nothing meaningful to contribute to any ongoing topic or thread in this conference where George is a contributor, they should post nothing at all.
daytripper, thanks for expressing my feelings 
. BUT: Imho it’s a bit short-sighted to build a wall solely against George and partners/customers. What would be more appropriate is a guideline for spam and misconduct in general. We’ve all been assoles here, and most have been forgiven, others left. I don’t believe George is the personalized evil. No one is. If someone is out of line, he or she can be addressed to that. Plain and simple. Herman
In the Big Picture(tm) you’re correct, Herman. But there are already Usenet guidelines that address the broader constructs for discussion groups under the Big 8 hierarchy. Clearly these guidelines have been ignored for some time in this case… This is not legislation that I’ve proposed, it’s a "serving suggestion" that addresses a specific concern in as gentle a fashion as possible while still providing some substance to chew on. Take it or leave it on its own merits. And thanks for your support. /daytripper
Why not. It cant do any harm to try. While admitting to some reservations about the wisdom of "forgiving and forgetting" in some circumstances, and also about the necessity for having separate regulatory agreements, which are basically unenforceable in any case, apart from the intrinsic regulatory factors which govern the groups individual behaviour in any case, such as the good sense, good manners, good taste, and propriety of the individuals concerned, if peace is the only objective, then perhaps the end justifies the means in this case. I will refrain from any posts at all concerning the material mentioned, until such time as the tacit agreement you suggest, ( or actual, should it be agreed to by all parties , which I doubt ), is broken, or flagrantly misused.
LOL! Ok, Mike, I appreciate your cooperation, if not enthusiastic support. "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible"
That’s ^^^^ profoundly appropriate. /daytripper (saving my dogma from being run over by my karma)
daytripper, thanks for expressing my feelings . BUT: Imho it’s a bit short-sighted to build a wall solely against George and partners/customers. What would be more appropriate is a guideline for spam and misconduct in general. We’ve all been assoles here, and most have been forgiven, others left. I don’t believe George is the personalized evil. No one is. If someone is out of line, he or she can be addressed to that. Plain and simple. Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My friends, lend me your eyes. This constant warring between the pro- and anti- George factions is taking a toll on my karma. And I don’t like it. And I don’t see a need for it to continue. There CAN be peace on roff in my time, if everyone could simply make an investment in faith and trust. But it WILL require EVERYONE to cooperate, or the effort is doomed to fail. As one participant in this group who was the target of a series of slanderous attacks last fall from the same person that I had previously defended in this place, I think I have the right to make the following proposal. I’m willing to forgive and forget, without anyone having to apologize to me, and move on with life. I’d appreciate it if you all would read this, and consider it. At this point you should all know that I certainly don’t have any stake in this, outside of the desire to establish the peace and maintain some sense of decorum. I am hereby proposing that a deal be struck between George and those who so far just can’t seem to forgive mistakes made in the past. If faithfully followed, the group will regain a gregarious fellow with a long and interesting flyfishing background and experience. In return the group won’t be forced to endure further onslaughts of unsolicited advertisements and suspect product endorsements. Here’s the deal. It’s damned simple: Part 1. The parties of the first part – George Gehrke, his employees, his partners, resellers, and anyone else with a financial interest in George’s business interests – will refrain from unsolicited merchandizing of his various products in this forum, just like the conduct expected of any other commercial interest. Part 2. All other parties will refrain from continuing their relentless attacks on George for any perceived transgression(s) presumed to have been perpetrated by George in the past. Further, if said parties have nothing meaningful to contribute to any ongoing topic or thread in this conference where George is a contributor, they should post nothing at all. What I’m proposing is the group allows George a fresh start – and that in turn, George not abuse that act of faith and trust. Reasonable people may disagree with what constitutes "suitable context" – but if someone comes looking for stuff that makes things sink or float – or are shopping for cane rods or blanks – I would consider those instances to be proper context where George could suggest that he has a solution worth considering. This doesn’t give George a green light to insult the intelligence or sensibilities of the group with over-the-top advertisements. Nor should a follow-up post by George suggesting that he has a product that will solve a problem constitute a red flag waving at those who currently have a penchant to attack each and every post that George makes. I believe that this would be a worthwhile project for this group – and George – to take on, with the advent of the new year. I offer it as a way for everyone to make a peace – and hopefully a long lasting one – without anyone having to apologize, confess, or otherwise atone for past mistakes of judgement or passion. We’ll simply leave the past in the past – where it belongs – while implicitly forgiving the transgressions that may have taken place in that time. No apologies required by anyone; everyone saves face by default. Could this work? Yes, if the group is committed to peace. Please consider it. Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper)
– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher
Why not. It cant do any harm to try. While admitting to some reservations about the wisdom of "forgiving and forgetting" in some circumstances, and also about the necessity for having separate regulatory agreements, which are basically unenforceable in any case, apart from the intrinsic regulatory factors which govern the groups individual behaviour in any case, such as the good sense, good manners, good taste, and propriety of the individuals concerned, if peace is the only objective, then perhaps the end justifies the means in this case. I will refrain from any posts at all concerning the material mentioned, until such time as the tacit agreement you suggest, ( or actual, should it be agreed to by all parties , which I doubt ), is broken, or flagrantly misused. TL MC "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de
My friends, lend me your eyes.
<SNIP
My friends, lend me your eyes. This constant warring between the pro- and anti- George factions is taking a toll on my karma. And I don’t like it. And I don’t see a need for it to continue. There CAN be peace on roff in my time, if everyone could simply make an investment in faith and trust. But it WILL require EVERYONE to cooperate, or the effort is doomed to fail. As one participant in this group who was the target of a series of slanderous attacks last fall from the same person that I had previously defended in this place, I think I have the right to make the following proposal. I’m willing to forgive and forget, without anyone having to apologize to me, and move on with life. I’d appreciate it if you all would read this, and consider it. At this point you should all know that I certainly don’t have any stake in this, outside of the desire to establish the peace and maintain some sense of decorum. I am hereby proposing that a deal be struck between George and those who so far just can’t seem to forgive mistakes made in the past. If faithfully followed, the group will regain a gregarious fellow with a long and interesting flyfishing background and experience. In return the group won’t be forced to endure further onslaughts of unsolicited advertisements and suspect product endorsements. Here’s the deal. It’s damned simple: Part 1. The parties of the first part – George Gehrke, his employees, his partners, resellers, and anyone else with a financial interest in George’s business interests – will refrain from unsolicited merchandizing of his various products in this forum, just like the conduct expected of any other commercial interest. Part 2. All other parties will refrain from continuing their relentless attacks on George for any perceived transgression(s) presumed to have been perpetrated by George in the past. Further, if said parties have nothing meaningful to contribute to any ongoing topic or thread in this conference where George is a contributor, they should post nothing at all. What I’m proposing is the group allows George a fresh start – and that in turn, George not abuse that act of faith and trust. Reasonable people may disagree with what constitutes "suitable context" – but if someone comes looking for stuff that makes things sink or float – or are shopping for cane rods or blanks – I would consider those instances to be proper context where George could suggest that he has a solution worth considering. This doesn’t give George a green light to insult the intelligence or sensibilities of the group with over-the-top advertisements. Nor should a follow-up post by George suggesting that he has a product that will solve a problem constitute a red flag waving at those who currently have a penchant to attack each and every post that George makes. I believe that this would be a worthwhile project for this group – and George – to take on, with the advent of the new year. I offer it as a way for everyone to make a peace – and hopefully a long lasting one – without anyone having to apologize, confess, or otherwise atone for past mistakes of judgement or passion. We’ll simply leave the past in the past – where it belongs – while implicitly forgiving the transgressions that may have taken place in that time. No apologies required by anyone; everyone saves face by default. Could this work? Yes, if the group is committed to peace. Please consider it. Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper)
Any suggestions for places to combine backpacking and fishing in Texas, Okla. or Arkansas? I never learned to fly-fish, but I’ll fish rivers, streams, lakes or ponds.
Backpacking and fishing rarely really go together in Texas. On the other hand though, canoe/kayaking and fishing are a pretty decent fit in Texas. If you are dedicated to backpack fishing, Arkansas is probably a better experience. The Texas coastline could be largely backpacked, but I doubt its the type of experience you want. You could backpack in Big Bend and fish the Rio Grande, but the Rio Grande is not exactly the most pristine river in the world…. But grab a canoe or kayak and the possibilities for fishing and camping become nearly limitless. .
I recently read your request on where to hike fish camp in ok,ar,tx you might try Beavers bend state park in the S.E. coner of OK it has trails that take up to several days to complete the country is very beautiful this time of year it is in the ouichata national forest and is a favorite af my wife and mine the hiking trail goes all the way around the lake and it is a very large lake lots af trees and mountains – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any suggestions for places to combine backpacking and fishing in Texas, Okla. or Arkansas? I never learned to fly-fish, but I’ll fish rivers, streams, lakes or ponds. Before you buy.
Any suggestions for places to combine backpacking and fishing in Texas, Okla. or Arkansas? I never learned to fly-fish, but I’ll fish rivers, streams, lakes or ponds. Before you buy.
I am going to Key West in a couple of weeks and was hoping to slip away for a half day and do a little fly fishing on the keys. I will have a car. Is there anywhere that I might go unguided within driving distance of KW where I might have a chance to stumble on fish?
Try "Saddle Bunch", I know of people who have stepped off of US1 right into the foot deep water and have landed Bonefish there. Its not far from KW if you’re driving you’ll pass right by it. Mark Ballard http://members.aol.com/veromark/fish.html
Harrison, You may be right. I believe I observed Jim and Kelly Watt on the tele one Sat. morning years ago. For the life of me I can’t remember what ol’ Jimbo looks like BUT I have a vivid picture of Kelly, lips and all. "Epoxylips", I need to remember that one. Thank you for correcting me. Stephen Hiner
Stephen: Just to set you straight, Jimbo is the one who laughs all the time – every nightclub comedians dream. His vocabulary also seems to consist of a single phrase, "oooooooh, NICE FISH". The other member of the dynamic duo squeals a lot and also has a limited vocabulary, i.e., "ooooooooh, THANK YOU FISH". Sometimes they get confused and say things like "THANK YOU, oooooooooh, NICE FISH", or even "NICE, ooooooh, YOU FISH THANK which isn’t in the script. Then they are difficult to tell apart. I think the double XX member of duo wears pink neoprenes, but I haven’t watched the show in years, so maybe I am mistaken. Harrison
A sure sign – the apocalypse is near!!!! Stephen Hiner
I’m not sure you meant "apocalypse". Didn’t you mean "epoxylips?" HRS
Harrison, You may be right. I believe I observed Jim and Kelly Watt on the tele one Sat. morning years ago. For the life of me I can’t remember what ol’ Jimbo looks like BUT I have a vivid picture of Kelly, lips and all. "Epoxylips", I need to remember that one. Thank you for correcting me. Stephen Hiner
Folks, most of you are probably aware of the Forum over at the Virtual Flyshop, (chat room, message boards, etc), but our ‘Experts’ board has been down for some time. We’re pleased to announce tha it is back up again, and we have some excellent fly fishermen willing to field your questions, including Gary LaFontaine, Jim Teeny, Jim & Kelly Watt, Dan Wright, Ian Martin and others. Please feel free to make use of this service! The URL for the VFS Forum is http://www.flyshop.com/Forum Thanks, — Mike Tucker- The Virtual Flyshop Web: http://www.flyshop.com Phone: 970/225-6445
A sure sign – the apocalypse is near!!!! Stephen Hiner
I’m thinking about trying to make solid bodied baits, like crankbaits, poppers, etc or maybe a rod or two for something to do during the winter. Can anyone recommend a book on the subjects? I’ve looked around the bookstores and library, but haven’t found anything. If anybody has any exprerience in it, I’d like to know how big of a project it is. Any leads to sources of materials would also be appreciated. Maybe I could wire a dremmel tool to my extra serial port and do CAD/CAM <g (Yea, right) Anyway, any ideas are appreciated. catch u later, John
Cant help you there!
Boyd Pfeiffer has a nice book TACKLE CRAFTS. We’ve a good fly tie book in our magazine, and should have articles on rod rolling and lure making. If we don’t now, and I’ll look, I’ll make sure we get them soon. — ** Louis Bignami, Publisher http://www.finefishing.com Fine Fishing Internet Magazine "largest fishing mag on the Net" **
You might want to give Jann’s a yell, they will send you a catalog full of items like you are after, (No, no M-Baits 
, but most Good luck, — **** Mike Muncy’s **** "M-Baits" "Handcrafted Cedar Crankbaits" **** M-Baits Web Page **** http://www.fishingworld.com/M-Baits/
As an alternative winter activity to tying flies, I occasionally whittle on cork to fashion largish poppers for bass. I use wine corks that I’ve pulled with a special opener (it has metal or bamboo slats that slide between the cork and bottle neck) so they lack a hole down the middle. After fashioning a body, be it slider or noise maker, I epoxy in an appropriate sized hook rigged normal or keel style. Paint the body something outlandish and tie in a few feathers and it’s ready to go. Make sure you use a hefty rod with these babies since they have *a lot* of air resistance. Haven’t caught an ear yet, though 8). Ron
: On this, I’ve a buddy with a vest that’s got more pockets than : a billard hall and he can’t ever, not once, find anything. Louis, Don’t ‘dis’ my hobby. Some folks fish, some tie flies. I spend hours filling and emptying the pockets of my vest. Sometimes, I find things in there that I didn’t even remember I owned! It is a truely fascination hobby! :^) Charley : — : ** : Louis Bignami, Publisher http://www.finefishing.com : Fine Fishing Internet Magazine : "largest fishing mag on the Net" : **
: On this, I’ve a buddy with a vest that’s got more pockets than : a billard hall and he can’t ever, not once, find anything. Louis, Don’t ‘dis’ my hobby. Some folks fish, some tie flies. I spend hours filling and emptying the pockets of my vest. Sometimes, I find things in there that I didn’t even remember I owned! It is a truely fascination hobby! :^) Charley
I can relate to that. I got a fly vest (Colombia I think) with so many pockets that I tend to stuff in so many things and the darn thing weigh so heavy that after 3 hours of fishing my back just could not handle the vest any more. So I did what all married would do, I let my wife wear it. ;-)) Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : — : ** : Louis Bignami, Publisher http://www.finefishing.com : Fine Fishing Internet Magazine : "largest fishing mag on the Net" : **
In the spirit of fly tying and rod building, I would like to sew my own fisng vest (shortie). Does anyone have experience with this? How about a source for patterns? Thanks, Steve
I did this when I was a student trying to save money on my new hobby of FFing. I ripped the sleaves off an old shirt and sewed pockets made from pieces of old trousers onto it. I still use it, and it works fine. Buy some of that sew on velcro for pocket closures. Get some large (saltwater size) snap swivels and sew them on for clips for stuff (remember to re-inforce the point where you sew them on if you don’t want them to pull through). Good luck. . Lenny Bloksberg . .
In the spirit of fly tying and rod building, I would like to sew my own fisng vest (shortie). Does anyone have experience with this? How about a source for patterns? Thanks, Steve
Last time I wrote an article on kit garments, Frostline had a vest kit. Since I don’t think adults should stash fish in their clothing, and I’m too stupid to remember what’s in what pocket, I’ve switched to cloth tackle creels and tote a mesh bag to stash the odd fish when I luck into one. If you insist on sewing your own you might take apart old vests. I’m big on Velcro fasteners and a smaller number of pockets than usual. I also fall down or in a lot, so favor a simple Stearns soft foam life vest. On this, I’ve a buddy with a vest that’s got more pockets than a billard hall and he can’t ever, not once, find anything. — ** Louis Bignami, Publisher http://www.finefishing.com Fine Fishing Internet Magazine "largest fishing mag on the Net" **
I am planning a trip to Padre Island sometime in Sept. I want to wade and fish for RED (big red) fish and speckle trout around this area. Any recommendation on where to fish and what kind of fly to use ? I have a canoe. Should I take it with me ? Is the water in the Laguna Madre too rough for canoeing ? Thank in advance for your input, Mr T.
Uh…return mail bounced so… The Original Message follows: Received: by universe.digex.net id AA26238 Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing In rec.outdoors.fishing you write: I am planning a trip to Padre Island sometime in Sept. I want to wade and fish for RED (big red) fish and speckle trout around this area. Any recommendation on where to fish and what kind of fly to use ? I have a canoe. Should I take it with me ? Is the water in the Laguna Madre too rough for canoeing ?
You don’t say which part of PI you’re heading to and, from your question on canoeing, I assume that you’ve never seen the bays. So, let me give you a few (hopefully) helpful hints. First, typically the LM is not too rough to canoe in—it’s just too darn big! The fish have a whole bunch of area to potentially be in at any given time, so your job will be to cover some water and look for favorable conditions. The three most important things defining “favorable” are: (1) Bait, (2) Bait, and (3) Bait. You *must* find where the bait are: it’s no guarantee that fish are there, but if there’s no bait there will almost certainly be no fish. Secondly, I have been in situations where a flyrod would’ve been the best choice, but I feel that those situations are extremely rare and specific. If you are wading deeper water with no algae growth and if you are searching for fish, use some other tackle choice. OTOH, if you are in a situation where you are surrounded by feeding reds that are tailing and are in shallow flats, say up against a grass line, or are laying under some sort of algae growth (I was in such a situation 2 weeks ago in the Port O’Connor area) then by God a fly rod can be darn handy! OK, enough of that. Back to the canoe. If you’re not sure of the area, and I suspect that you are not, I would suggest something that will get you around better than a canoe—maybe a Jetski, or some such thing. If you’re heading to Port Isabel, well I can offer a couple of suggestions that you can drive to (i.e. they are accessible by land) and that you can wade directly. cheers, (and good luck) john P.S. Remember: The fishing is *always* good, sometimes the *catching* is not.
There are two things I’ve heard wrt keeping bugs at bay: 1) Vitamin B6 when consumed gives one an odor distasteful to bugs 2) Bugs prefer dark colours especially blue Has anyone out there heard concrete evidence to support or refute these statements? Should I ditch my navy blue shirt and buy a white one? Should I start popping B6 supplements?
Scottish midges come out when the light intensity drops below a certain value. Thus dark clothes will attract them more quickly than light clothes. Exact value of this intensity, and many other interesting facts are given in ‘The Highland Midge’ a little booklet, which is, I believe, a shortened version of the author’s dissertation. It is available in touristy shops. (I have no financial or other interests in this book.) There are a lot of different types of midges, with wildly varying lifestyles and habitats. Kees PS For those in Edinburgh: there is a midge genus/type/model called midge duddingstonii, or something to that effect, called after Duddingston Loch. A lot of repellent tests were done around Achnashellach, prime midge country. DEET still seems to be recognised to be the most effective. — Kees Goossens Keep in Touch with the Dutch: University of Edinburgh, Scotland UUCP: ..!mcsun!uknet!dcs!kgg Wiskunde is bouwen in de geest. — Luitzen Egbertus Jan Brouwer.
I have heard that if you eat garlic, it will help keep bugs away, A few years ago, some friends and I decided to test the garlic theory. There were 4 of us, and each evening I would grind up a dozen or so cloves for the soup.
WHAT! NO CONTROL GROUP? ——- Ed.
|If I remember correctly, "The Complete Wilderness Paddler" cites |actual scientific research on the clothing color question. |According to this book (an excellent book by the way), dark |colors attract mosquitoes more than light/bright colors. Orange is |the best color to wear, followed by colors like yellow, green, white. Unfortunately orange is not the best color to wear when trying to catch that spooky german brown during the evening hatch. Also, unfortunately when a #14 mosquito might be the best pattern, orange clothing might be the only thing you could where that would allow tolarable fishing conditions. There is this place in the southern part of Sequoia National forest where the mosquitos aren’t as bad as these little biting flies that come out around dusk. If tying on a fly during failing light isn’t hard enough having a fly intrigued by the batting of your eyelashes makes it almost impossible. I’ve resigned to wearing a head net on such occasions. That last time I was there we had just hiked out after a few days and were talking with a couple of guys that were waiting for it to cool off a little more before hiking in. After one of them slapped his arm about the third or fourth time and said, "son of a bitch!", I said, "you`ll be calling them worse than that before the trips over." — | John Fereira "Is that all you ever think about?" |
According to this book (an excellent book by the way), dark colors attract mosquitoes more than light/bright colors. Orange is the best color to wear, followed by colors like yellow, green, white.
So that explains why all those hikers dressed like a flower are grinning so much. And I thought it was ignorance. (I guess it was ignorance – mine). Still, I’m too macho to look like a spring garden. I’ll just wear my long-sleeved, dark-colored clothing, light up a stinking stogy (works on hikers too!) and head off into the forest. Woody
Wasn’t there an article in one of the mags recently about backcountry etiquette with regards to bright clothing and equipment? I guess I’m not suprised that bugs have better taste than some people. Scott Herod
I have heard that if you eat garlic, it will help keep bugs away, but I eat a fair amount of garlic and it doesn’t seem to help.
A few years ago, some friends and I decided to test the garlic theory. There were 4 of us, and each evening I would grind up a dozen or so cloves for the soup. In addition, I ate it raw with lunch (I like garlic). Since our canoe trip lasted 14 days, we each consumed a good deal of the stuff. It’s a good thing we never met anybody on the way. Well, the bugs paid no attention at all; they were as vicious as ever. By 9 pm, the only thing to do was retreat to the tent and listen to the monsters buzz around. Maybe you’re supposed to rub it on the skin … — Computing and Communications Services Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada K1S 5B6
I have heard that if you eat garlic, it will help keep bugs away, but I eat a fair amount of garlic and it doesn’t seem to help. Well, the bugs paid no attention at all; they were as vicious as ever. By 9 pm, the only thing to do was retreat to the tent and listen to the monsters buzz around. Maybe you’re supposed to rub it on the skin …
This is the conclusion you were supposed to draw. The rumor was started by a gourmet bug club. — The fickleness of the women I love is only equalled by the infernal constancy of the women who love me.–George Bernard Shaw
There are two things I’ve heard wrt keeping bugs at bay: 1) Vitamin B6 when consumed gives one an odor distasteful to bugs 2) Bugs prefer dark colours especially blue Has anyone out there heard concrete evidence to support or refute these statements? Should I ditch my navy blue shirt and buy a white one? Should I start popping B6 supplements?
If I remember correctly, "The Complete Wilderness Paddler" cites actual scientific research on the clothing color question. According to this book (an excellent book by the way), dark colors attract mosquitoes more than light/bright colors. Orange is the best color to wear, followed by colors like yellow, green, white. Ed
There are two things I’ve heard wrt keeping bugs at bay: 1) Vitamin B6 when consumed gives one an odor distasteful to bugs 2) Bugs prefer dark colours especially blue Has anyone out there heard concrete evidence to support or refute these statements? Should I ditch my navy blue shirt and buy a white one? Should I start popping B6 supplements?
There are two things I’ve heard wrt keeping bugs at bay: 1) Vitamin B6 when consumed gives one an odor distasteful to bugs 2) Bugs prefer dark colours especially blue
My experience growing up in a rice-growing region indicates that mosquitoes definitely prefer dark colors. I don’t know if blue is particularly more attractive to them than other colors. Loose fitting light outer garments seem best. Wear a light-colored hat. I have heard that if you eat garlic, it will help keep bugs away, but I eat a fair amount of garlic and it doesn’t seem to help. — * Jean Ezell * University of Illinois * * * Coordinated Science Lab * * (217) 244-5536 * Urbana, IL 61801 *