Thanks for the great post! -Muskie
Thanks Sid, I could use a little fishing too. This was almost as good. Herman
<great report snipped — Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher
Work sucks. I mean, let’s face it — unless you’re…. 8<
Thanks Sid for making my first cup of coffee this morning taste so damn good! Tight lines, Walt
Thanks Sid. I needed that. Big Dale
Good way to start my day Sid…are you by any chance a "published" writer? Frank (I wuz published once, on a wanted poster) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Work sucks. I mean, let’s face it — unless you’re…. 8< Thanks Sid for making my first cup of coffee this morning taste so damn good! Tight lines, Walt
I didn’t need that. I’ve got a pile of things to do today and I’m gonna be thinking about this trip all day and not get a damn thing done. Paul
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Sid. I needed that. Big Dale
Absolutely excellent. Hope it earns you more time on the river too ! 
TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Work sucks. I mean, let’s face it — unless you’re Tiger Woods or actively employed by Van Halen, work pretty much just sucks. Oh, sure, I suppose you could be one of those namby-pamby "fulfilled" people you read about sometimes — you know, the ones who read that "Do What You Love, The Money Will Follow" book and are now out there carving handsome duck decoys that cleverly double as toilet paper dispensers, selling them out of their RVs at craft festivals up and down the coast. Sadly, those people never saw the subtitle for that book: "Do What You Love, The Money Will Follow That Guy In The Suit On The Way To His Job At Salomon Brothers, Leaving You Penniless And Hungry And With No Toilet Paper To Put On Your Handsome Duck Decoys.. .Dumbass." Hmm. What, if any, was my point? Merely this, I suppose — today, I went fishing. Not just any fishing, either. This was the kind of fishing born of resolute necessity. The kind of fishing that nourishes the soul, makes full the heart, and kindles the spirit. The kind of fishing that sings John Denver songs with nary the faintest trace of irony. The kind of fishing you do when the only thing that’s gonna make things right is the sound of moving water, the crispness of a winter’s afternon, and the absolute certitude that your 4x leader spool is gonna be in your vest’s right front pocket ’cause that’s by god where you keep it. Do you ever set aside trips to the river for experiments? Say to yourself things like, "Today, I will only fish soft hackles downstream regardless of the outcome," or, "Today, I will restrict myself to dries larger than a #8," just to see what happens? I do half-assed versions of this all the time, usually caving in when I see that it would be only too easy to catch fish with techniques I’ve foresworn for the day. I usually rationalize the whole thing by saying things like, well, shit, you still haven’t read the complete novels of Tolstoy…how the hell are you supposed to stop using a strike indicator? This particular tactic works surprisingly well and will undoubtedly always be there as my go-to rationalization. Russians write some big-ass books. Still, my resolve seemed to be steady today. Halfway to the river, Townes Van Zandt on the stereo, and I’m still sticking to my original intention of fishing traditional steelhead tactics on the Yuba. Hmm. Maybe I should backtrack. See, I’m a transplanted Washingtonian, recently relocated to the foothills of the Sierra Nevada. Nevada City, to be exact. California. A place where traditional steelhead tactics are pretty much reserved to coastal streams (the Smith, the Klamath, the Mad, Mattole, Gualala, and so on). Here in the foothills, whatever steelhead are lucky enough to swim their way through San Francisco Bay, up the Sac, taking a left at the Feather, and then a right at the Yuba (with a fish ladder on the way), are usually treated to a barrage of trout tactics — smallish nymphs, floated drag-free under an indicator. I miss the traditional steelhead tactics of my native Northwest. I miss booming out big casts, quartered downstream with sink-tips or shooting heads, and swinging chunky marabou flies through holding water. I miss the ruminative reverie of cast, swing, step…cast, swing, step. I believe it was either Nigel Tufnel from Spinal Tap or Tom McGuane who said something along the lines of "All that is required of flyfishing for steelhead is a room temperature IQ and a capacity for repetition." This is missing the point — the beauty is in the repetition. It’s mantra, koan, and enigmas wrapped in riddles all in one…pure therapy. So, today’s escape from the workplace was to be performed as an experiment. I fish the Yuba fairly regularly — living in Nevada City, it’s my home waters — and have always marveled at some of the absolutely classic steelhead runs it features. You take away the mining tailings, and the runs are straight out of a Trey Combs book. So, today was to be the day I put aside the #18 flashback pheasant tail nymphs and picked up a #6 Skykomish Sunrise and put it on the business end of a 25 foot sinktip. At least that’s what it was supposed to be. When I finally arrived at the Yuba, blissfully free from work for a hard-earned two hours, there were only two cars parked at the usual pullout. Much to my chagrin, each of these fellows had decided to fish the very run I had my sights on — the most cherry run in the area for traditional steelhead tactics, and a run that is rarely fished at all on the Yuba. Quoting lines from "War and Peace" in my head, I decided to leave my floating line on and head up to the usual trout holes instead, nymph box in hand. A couple trout and a Dostoevsky later, the sun was nearly gone and I was ready to head home. Walking past the now-empty run I’d meant to fish earlier, I couldn’t help but think to myself things like, "Carver is way better than Chekhov, "Somebody oughta bitchslap that punk Raskolnikov," and, most importantly, "Well, shit, it ain’t that dark." Off with the small stuff and on with the large. Time was too short to switch spools, so I left my floating line on and just hitched on a fat Comet, instead. I’ve always liked Comets — they used to be very popular in the Northwest for steelhead flyfishing but have fallen out of favor. Too bad — they get down like Rick James on a two-day crack binge. The first two casts produced nothing but the sweet feeling of anachronism — reward enough in of itself — but the third produced a solid, undeniable take. Reverie over. Ten minutes of cathected concentration later, it was over — the steelhead back in the water, and me blissfully free of mind for a lovely moment, thoughtless, weightless, and just ever so slightly slipped of these earthly bonds. Steelhead will do that to you. more time on the river to all of you, – sid —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Thanks Sid, Especially in the Winter, a good report is a great release. Willi
<snip Awesome prose Sid! Wolfgang breathless
Work sucks. I mean, let’s face it — unless you’re Tiger Woods or actively employed by Van Halen, work pretty much just sucks.
Great story Sid; thanks. Joe F.
Work sucks. I mean, let’s face it — unless you’re Tiger Woods or actively employed by Van Halen, work pretty much just sucks. Oh, sure, I suppose you could be one of those namby-pamby "fulfilled" people you read about sometimes — you know, the ones who read that "Do What You Love, The Money Will Follow" book and are now out there carving handsome duck decoys that cleverly double as toilet paper dispensers, selling them out of their RVs at craft festivals up and down the coast. Sadly, those people never saw the subtitle for that book: "Do What You Love, The Money Will Follow That Guy In The Suit On The Way To His Job At Salomon Brothers, Leaving You Penniless And Hungry And With No Toilet Paper To Put On Your Handsome Duck Decoys.. .Dumbass." Hmm. What, if any, was my point? Merely this, I suppose — today, I went fishing. Not just any fishing, either. This was the kind of fishing born of resolute necessity. The kind of fishing that nourishes the soul, makes full the heart, and kindles the spirit. The kind of fishing that sings John Denver songs with nary the faintest trace of irony. The kind of fishing you do when the only thing that’s gonna make things right is the sound of moving water, the crispness of a winter’s afternon, and the absolute certitude that your 4x leader spool is gonna be in your vest’s right front pocket ’cause that’s by god where you keep it. Do you ever set aside trips to the river for experiments? Say to yourself things like, "Today, I will only fish soft hackles downstream regardless of the outcome," or, "Today, I will restrict myself to dries larger than a #8," just to see what happens? I do half-assed versions of this all the time, usually caving in when I see that it would be only too easy to catch fish with techniques I’ve foresworn for the day. I usually rationalize the whole thing by saying things like, well, shit, you still haven’t read the complete novels of Tolstoy…how the hell are you supposed to stop using a strike indicator? This particular tactic works surprisingly well and will undoubtedly always be there as my go-to rationalization. Russians write some big-ass books. Still, my resolve seemed to be steady today. Halfway to the river, Townes Van Zandt on the stereo, and I’m still sticking to my original intention of fishing traditional steelhead tactics on the Yuba. Hmm. Maybe I should backtrack. See, I’m a transplanted Washingtonian, recently relocated to the foothills of the Sierra Nevada. Nevada City, to be exact. California. A place where traditional steelhead tactics are pretty much reserved to coastal streams (the Smith, the Klamath, the Mad, Mattole, Gualala, and so on). Here in the foothills, whatever steelhead are lucky enough to swim their way through San Francisco Bay, up the Sac, taking a left at the Feather, and then a right at the Yuba (with a fish ladder on the way), are usually treated to a barrage of trout tactics — smallish nymphs, floated drag-free under an indicator. I miss the traditional steelhead tactics of my native Northwest. I miss booming out big casts, quartered downstream with sink-tips or shooting heads, and swinging chunky marabou flies through holding water. I miss the ruminative reverie of cast, swing, step…cast, swing, step. I believe it was either Nigel Tufnel from Spinal Tap or Tom McGuane who said something along the lines of "All that is required of flyfishing for steelhead is a room temperature IQ and a capacity for repetition." This is missing the point — the beauty is in the repetition. It’s mantra, koan, and enigmas wrapped in riddles all in one…pure therapy. So, today’s escape from the workplace was to be performed as an experiment. I fish the Yuba fairly regularly — living in Nevada City, it’s my home waters — and have always marveled at some of the absolutely classic steelhead runs it features. You take away the mining tailings, and the runs are straight out of a Trey Combs book. So, today was to be the day I put aside the #18 flashback pheasant tail nymphs and picked up a #6 Skykomish Sunrise and put it on the business end of a 25 foot sinktip. At least that’s what it was supposed to be. When I finally arrived at the Yuba, blissfully free from work for a hard-earned two hours, there were only two cars parked at the usual pullout. Much to my chagrin, each of these fellows had decided to fish the very run I had my sights on — the most cherry run in the area for traditional steelhead tactics, and a run that is rarely fished at all on the Yuba. Quoting lines from "War and Peace" in my head, I decided to leave my floating line on and head up to the usual trout holes instead, nymph box in hand. A couple trout and a Dostoevsky later, the sun was nearly gone and I was ready to head home. Walking past the now-empty run I’d meant to fish earlier, I couldn’t help but think to myself things like, "Carver is way better than Chekhov, "Somebody oughta bitchslap that punk Raskolnikov," and, most importantly, "Well, shit, it ain’t that dark." Off with the small stuff and on with the large. Time was too short to switch spools, so I left my floating line on and just hitched on a fat Comet, instead. I’ve always liked Comets — they used to be very popular in the Northwest for steelhead flyfishing but have fallen out of favor. Too bad — they get down like Rick James on a two-day crack binge. The first two casts produced nothing but the sweet feeling of anachronism — reward enough in of itself — but the third produced a solid, undeniable take. Reverie over. Ten minutes of cathected concentration later, it was over — the steelhead back in the water, and me blissfully free of mind for a lovely moment, thoughtless, weightless, and just ever so slightly slipped of these earthly bonds. Steelhead will do that to you. more time on the river to all of you, – sid —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Ernie has a major league hard-on for The Evil Ginkster… Well, thanks a freakin’ lot for putting that image in my head. Kevin
I don’t believe my dislike of George is any worse than others on ROFF. Since I put him in my kill file the only posts I see are the ones repeated in another person’s posts. I can live with that. Ernie
Tripper I ment Ernie Schwiebert, not Harrison. Did Schwiebert die or something? Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No no no! Nothing so trivial. Ernie has a major league hard-on for The Evil Ginkster…
Ernie has a major league hard-on for The Evil Ginkster…
Well, thanks a freakin’ lot for putting that image in my head. Kevin
Is that a pool that the looser comes back in 24 hours? I believe him! Yes I do, I really think he means it this time! I trust him to keep his word. However, I also believe in the tooth fairy, honest and truthful politicians, and the future of the Yugo automobile (I have one, in pristine condition, just waiting for the upsurge in the collectable market)…
Oh, he’s gone, but of course he’ll be back. New ISPs are probably getting harder to find, though.. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.
Why? is he dead? (Serious question) Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie is contributing anything. Dave Oops, typo! Of course this should read, I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie isn’t contributing anything. Dave Before you buy.
No no no! Nothing so trivial. Ernie has a major league hard-on for The Evil Ginkster… /daytripper (…and he’s packing a Louisville Slugger.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why? is he dead? (Serious question) Dave I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie is contributing anything. Dave Oops, typo! Of course this should read, I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie isn’t contributing anything. Dave Before you buy.
"Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you
I’d trade in anything those guys had to say for one good posting from Mike Connor. Tight Lines,Shawn
I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie is contributing anything. Dave
Oops, typo! Of course this should read, I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie isn’t contributing anything. Dave Before you buy.
Is that a pool that the looser comes back in 24 hours?
I believe him! Yes I do, I really think he means it this time! I trust him to keep his word. However, I also believe in the tooth fairy, honest and truthful politicians, and the future of the Yugo automobile (I have one, in pristine condition, just waiting for the upsurge in the collectable market)… — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other." – George Eliot
bullshit, i have a 100 bucks that sez you’ll post here again…. c’mon georgie, is it a bet? He did say he’d be back from time to time for the free advertising. — Charlie…
yeah, but he won’t remember saying it. ww
"Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you? They certainly must have good reasons for not doing so. Have you ever asked yourself the question, why?"
I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie is contributing anything. Dave Before you buy.
Is that a pool that the looser comes back in 24 hours? ND#1
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will cease to write for ROFF anymore, any free articles directly because it has been pointed out to me, "Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you? <snip Adios, Try to stay away a little longer this time Ginko! Ernie Forever wouldn’t be long enough. /daytripper (We ought to start a pool…)
What was I thinking. I forgot to add that he’ll have a new ISP when he is posting again.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If TSOTS can make it through the night without poosting he’ll be back on Tuesday the 14th. _____ Anyone who wishes to reply to me on this policy must E-mail their comments and opinions because I won’t be reading ROFF anymore and IF any, very little. Again, I will only be posting notices in the future in ROFF for those who want only the finest information possible regarding American Outdoors/Indoors and Fly Fishing. Secondly, anyone wishing to post articles to me for preservation on our Fly Fishing section may do so. This way they won’t be posted just once and then lost and out of mind in dejanews.com. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html bamboo flyrods & blanks More Bamboo For Less Money Than ANY OTHER FLY ROD IN THE WORLD
bullshit, i have a 100 bucks that sez you’ll post here again…. c’mon georgie, is it a bet?
He did say he’d be back from time to time for the free advertising. — Charlie…
I will cease to write for ROFF anymore, any free articles directly because it has been pointed out to me, "Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you? <snip Adios, Try to stay away a little longer this time Ginko! Ernie
Forever wouldn’t be long enough. /daytripper (We ought to start a pool…)
If TSOTS can make it through the night without poosting he’ll be back on Tuesday the 14th. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – _____ Anyone who wishes to reply to me on this policy must E-mail their comments and opinions because I won’t be reading ROFF anymore and IF any, very little. Again, I will only be posting notices in the future in ROFF for those who want only the finest information possible regarding American Outdoors/Indoors and Fly Fishing. Secondly, anyone wishing to post articles to me for preservation on our Fly Fishing section may do so. This way they won’t be posted just once and then lost and out of mind in dejanews.com. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html bamboo flyrods & blanks More Bamboo For Less Money Than ANY OTHER FLY ROD IN THE WORLD
Try to stay away a little longer this time Ginko! Ernie
I will cease to write for ROFF anymore, any free articles directly because it has been pointed out to me, "Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you? <snip Adios,
______ It seems I have, after reviewing the hundreds of fly fishing articles donated by yours truly over the years, is enough to nearly write a well defined book on the subject. I will cease to write for ROFF anymore, any free articles directly because it has been pointed out to me, "Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you? They certainly must have good reasons for not doing so. Have you ever asked yourself the question, why?" Well, I’ve thought about that and it makes sense to me. Why am I trying so hard to bring fly fishing to a darwinian gang of thugs who really have little interest in the group as a primary fly fishing discussion forum? Why indeed, am I here when all the others refuse to be involved with ROFF? It seems, ROFF does not sit well with these professionals. I will write my articles and I will probably make an effort to collect them all from dejanews from over the years, if possible. What I think I should do is start a pure fly fishing "Book of Gink On Fly Fishing" Web page and list all the articles there. When I write a piece, I will simply just come here and post where everyone interested can key on the ‘Blue Thingie’ that will take them to the World of Gink. I like this idea a lot better than having to listen to all the diatribes from the local drunk to the babbling yuppies in white shirts and ugly ties. Outside that, this new plan goes into motion immediately. The second nice thing we will be able to do again is renew my visits to http://www.gink.com/chat which IS MONITORED and where the smart asses aren’t tolerated when they demean others or swear or arrive just to troll and cause others to become nauseous of them. Frankly, like it or not, the Fly Fisherman’s Chat Site around the ole camp fire is much more fun and friendlier and MUCH MORE INTERESTING than anything happening in ROFF. Roff doesn’t even come close for user friendly compared to Gink’s Fire Side Chat Site. Pure truth. Those who wish to be civil and visit are welcome starting for me sometime between 6 to 8 PM but going on into the night, time permitting. Those of you who wish to have your own INSTANT ANSWERING Visiting Room can go there and be in total privacy. Don’t forget, this chat site http://www.gink.com/chat allows any number of individuals to talk privately and instantly to each other is "Whisper Mode". Anyhow, for sake of good order, the only time I care anymore to visit Roff in the future is to notify fly fishermen of new articles and updates. Incidentally Wayne Harrison, you will see that should you care to visit me/us and some of your old friends at http://www.gink.com/chat how much more caring and civil we are there compared to what you’ve been living with in ROFF. The good ole boys, if the truth be known, are not in ROFF anymore. After this post, I personally wish to invite all you new people a personal invitation to attend and join us at the Home Camp Fires Burning. http://www.gink.com/chat Just sign in and use your real name. Ask any question about fly fishing or fishing in general and there will be someone here to help you. Welcome, one an all to a really top drawer, well moderated free speech without cussing chat room you will ever hope to find. See you around 7 PM this evening everyone. Adios, : ) — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html bamboo flyrods & blanks More Bamboo For Less Money Than ANY OTHER FLY ROD IN THE WORLD
_____ Anyone who wishes to reply to me on this policy must E-mail their comments and opinions because I won’t be reading ROFF anymore and IF any, very little. Again, I will only be posting notices in the future in ROFF for those who want only the finest information possible regarding American Outdoors/Indoors and Fly Fishing. Secondly, anyone wishing to post articles to me for preservation on our Fly Fishing section may do so. This way they won’t be posted just once and then lost and out of mind in dejanews.com. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html bamboo flyrods & blanks More Bamboo For Less Money Than ANY OTHER FLY ROD IN THE WORLD
I will cease to write for ROFF anymore, any free articles directly because it has been pointed out to me, "Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you?
there’s just one flaw with that argument george…. those guys can write. but hell, don’t let me dissuade ya…. They certainly must have good reasons for not doing so. Have you ever asked yourself the question, why?"
no, don’t give a rats ass. Well, I’ve thought about that and it makes sense to me. Why am I trying so hard to bring fly fishing to a darwinian gang of thugs who really have little interest in the group as a primary fly fishing discussion forum?
yeah, why are you? Why indeed, am I here when all the others refuse to be involved with ROFF? It seems, ROFF does not sit well with these professionals.
bwahahahahahahahahahahaha I will write my articles and I will probably make an effort to collect them all from dejanews from over the years, if possible. What I think I should do is start a pure fly fishing "Book of Gink On Fly Fishing" Web page and list all the articles there. When I write a piece, I will simply just come here and post where everyone interested can key on the ‘Blue Thingie’ that will take them to the World of Gink.
make it a green thingy george…. green with envy. I like this idea a lot better than having to listen to all the diatribes from the local drunk to the babbling yuppies in white shirts and ugly ties.
we also like it better… see ya georgie-pooh… for the umpteenth time. Outside that, this new plan goes into motion immediately.
bullshit, i have a 100 bucks that sez you’ll post here again…. c’mon georgie, is it a bet? Adios,
see ya here soon…. your pal, waldo
Somehow I missed that. Had I seen it, I probably would have suggested castrating the bastard so as to prevent reproduction.
I saw it as a naive and bumbling attempt at a better ‘qualified’ voter – similar to the junk most people heard/said as college freshmen – not as a sinister plot. FWIW — Charlie…
Technically, I did say in a sense that
ignorant people should be denied a vote.< So, you want to disenfranchise yourself? You don’t need to disallow *all* ignorant people , just ’cause you don’t want to. Harry who likes ending sentences with prepositions, even if it *does* disenfranchise him.
I saw it as a naive and bumbling attempt at a better ‘qualified’ voter – similar to the junk most people heard/said as college freshmen – not as a sinister plot. FWIW
Thank you. If certain people had half the intelligence they flatter themselves with, they’d understand that too. Regards, Jeff
Virtually every English speaking person who knows what this word means associates it specifically with Hitler’s Weltenschauung,
I’m perfectly willing to believe that Wolfgang tried to tar you as Nazi, Jeff, but Weltanschauung is actually an innocuous German word that isn’t particularly associated with Hilter. I’d hate to see it become part of the eternally forbidden PC lexicon. Now get of Wolfgang’s back. He needs some Lebensraum. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
I saw it as a naive and bumbling attempt
at a better ‘qualified’ voter – similar to the junk most people
heard/said as college freshmen – not as a sinister plot. FWIW
Thank you. If certain people had half the intelligence they flatter themselves with, they’d understand that too. Not a "sinister plot" just extraordinarily stupid thinking. Well, OK, Jeff, apology accepted.
Technically, I did say in a sense that ignorant people should be denied a vote.< So, you want to disenfranchise yourself? You don’t need to disallow *all* ignorant people , just ’cause you don’t want to.
I realize this is just flamebait, but god help me I can’t help myself. It’s a bit presumptuous of you to assume that I don’t know who the candidates are, isn’t it? I personally don’t vote straight ticket, so I don’t for offices for which I don’t know the candidates. Having said that, I have voted for someone in the past without knowing who their opponent was, and I think it was wrong of me. So if you must know, I disenfranchise myself sometimes now if I’m ignorant, yes. Regards, Jeff
So Harry, you wanna suck my dick, eh?<
You should take your own advice. I wanna cut it off. Harry who thinks Forty’s problem is that he’s too polite
My recent imbroglio with Jeff Connelly should serve as an example of what I am getting at. Jeff’s suggestion that ignorant people by denied the right to vote (and that is EXACTLY what it was despite any later disclaimer) is as despicable as it is dangerous.
No freaking way. Don’t try to lead us to believe that the reason you responded to Jeff the way you did is somehow for the good of society or that you’re worried that he’s dangerous. While I don’t agree with Jeff’s brainstorming on the issue of voting requirements, we *already have* voting requirements (ie. you must register and you must be of a certain age) that serve as anti-ignorance measures. So you can’t possibly have gotten your panties in such a wad solely from what Jeff was postulating. If you want to flame the guy, harrass the guy, offend the guy, I say have at it. It’s your despicable right and if Jeff cannot ignore it then it becomes his problem as well. But if you continue to maintain that your reasons for flaming Jeff the way you did are purely in defense of ingorant voting then you’re being intellectually dishonest and you *know* it. Just admit that your motivation for responding to him is that his ROFF personality just plain bugs the crap out of you and leave it at that. Jeff’s ruminations on this forum might have been naive, but you are frankly ever more so naive if you think they were more than that. Finally, might I suggest that if you feel that another individual on this forum shows a suprising level of ignorance, the best response is to teach, counsel and advise NOT offend, cajole, or defame. Else you will not solve the problem. –Steve
I don’t think problem solving is any part of the strategy here.< Can’t speak for WS but it sure ain’t part of mine. More like insult and injury.
You don’t see any irony in that, Harry? –Steve
Finally, might I suggest that if you feel that another individual on this forum shows a suprising level of ignorance, the best response is to teach, counsel and advise NOT offend, cajole, or defame. Else you will not solve the problem. I don’t think problem solving is any part of the strategy here. — Charlie…
I believe you’re right again, Charlie. But if someone sees what he perceives to be racism or ignorance and he doesn’t try to solve the problem (and no offense KenF and Wolfgang but I submit that very few people around here think you’re part of the solution) then he is arguably part of the problem. IMO, FWIW, EOT. –Steve
I don’t think problem solving is any part of the strategy here.<
Can’t speak for WS but it sure ain’t part of mine. More like insult and injury.
Finally, might I suggest that if you feel that another individual on this forum shows a suprising level of ignorance, the best response is to teach, counsel and advise NOT offend, cajole, or defame. Else you will not solve the problem.
I don’t think problem solving is any part of the strategy here. — Charlie…
Most of the people in this group seemed
willing enough to simply ignore this proposition, presumably for a variety of reasons.< Somehow I missed that. Had I seen it, I probably would have suggested castrating the bastard so as to prevent reproduction. Harry who never liked fascists of any stripe
My recent imbroglio with Jeff Connelly should serve as an example of what I am getting at. Jeff’s suggestion that ignorant people by denied the right to vote (and that is EXACTLY what it was despite any later disclaimer) is as despicable as it is dangerous.
There was no disclaimer of *that*. If that is what you had said the very first time, everything would be fine. Technically, I did say in a sense that ignorant people should be denied a vote. Even so, that is clearly not in the spirit of what I said though. I said people should know who they’re voting for and should be aware of the options from which they’re choosing. It has nothing to do with ignorance in general, as you purposely try to make it sound. This is the gist of my idea, and any other minor comments (such as people need to know the issues) were said with little seriousness, such as when a number of people were making comments like "I wish stupid people wouldn’t vote!". You said I wanted to take away the right of people to vote for *who* they wanted. A lie. You said I wanted to take away the right of people to vote for whatever *reasons* they wanted. A lie. You said I was a Nazi. A lie. You used innuendo by using the word Weltanschauung. Virtually every English speaking person who knows what this word means associates it specifically with Hitler’s Weltenschauung, and that Hitler’s Weltanschauung includes anti-Semitism, facts that you are very well aware of. You used innuendo by using the term Zyklon B and said I wanted to use it "until it was all gone." Everyone knows that a reference to Zyklon B means killing Jews and others in Nazi death camps, and invokes the holocaust. Then you said "Innuendo? I was being blunt" (close if not exact quote), implying that you did indeed mean I was anti-Semitic and/or that I proposed the mass killing of groups of people. Then you said "Anti-Semitic? Why don’t you READ?" What you did is careless and irresponsible in the extreme (if not illegal), dishonest, and mean (not to mention insensitive and in extremely poor taste). If what I wrote is despicable, what you wrote is indescribable. Most of the people in this group seemed willing enough to simply ignore this proposition, presumably for a variety of reasons. Indifference is one thing which comes readily to mind. Some may agree with him. I suspect, though, that a lot of people, whatever their feelings on the matter he proposed, would simply rather avoid any further off topic unpleasantness on a news group they feel should be dedicated solely to fly fishing.
Actually the topic ended fine when I said it was an unpractical idea that wouldn’t work and wouldn’t be accepted anyway, and I was just dreaming. The final word on the subject was "Dream on", and the thread was over. Anyway, based on what you wrote here, now you should understand why a lot of people other than me put up with you being such an asshole. Regards, Jeff
It’s a bit presumptuous of you to assume
that I don’t know who the candidates are, isn’t it? I personally don’t vote straight ticket….< So it’s them ignorant straight ticket voters that you want to deny, eh? You should have quit while you were ahead, Jeffie. Every time you open your mouth, you stick your dick in it.
It’s a bit presumptuous of you to assume that I don’t know who the candidates are, isn’t it? I personally don’t vote straight ticket….< So it’s them ignorant straight ticket voters that you want to deny, eh? You should have quit while you were ahead, Jeffie. Every time you open your mouth, you stick your dick in it.
For Chrissakes Harry, if you’re not going to read what was written why are you continuing this nonsense? If you say in public I said something I didn’t, I’ll stay here and defend it. Either go back and read the entire thread on it or just stay out of it. Makes about as much sense as this: Every time you open your mouth, you stick your dick in it.
So Harry, you wanna suck my dick, eh? No I don’t want to deny straight ticket voters. Stop baiting me already and let it die, you came in the conversation too late. Regards, Jeff
I’m perfectly willing to believe that Wolfgang tried to tar you as Nazi….
Isn’t "fascist" a little more all inclusive? Nazi is a little too tied to a particular time and place. C’mon Wolfgang, get smart (!) or we’ll have to cancel your voting privileges. <g
This is honestly a sincere question to Ken F. and Wolfgang.
I see there are a few new posts on this thread since my first response last night. I have refrained from reading any of them until I finish answering your question Willi. The relative anonymity provided by usenet makes it possible for people to craft a persona which may or may not correspond closely with what they project in face to face encounters. As in any other endeavor competence in doing this deliberately varies considerably from one individual to another. Needless to say, many will try to make themselves into something that they cannot, for one reason or another, be in the real world. Presumably, some will enjoy great success at this while others, obviously, fail miserably. Nothing can be done about the former (assuming that one would wish to) and nothing need by done about the latter. Most fall somewhere between the two extremes. I maintain that in many cases there is ample reason to want to do something to expose such a facade for what it is, and to deal bluntly with the perpetrators just as one would (or at least SHOULD) with more blatant wholesalers of offense. My recent imbroglio with Jeff Connelly should serve as an example of what I am getting at. Jeff’s suggestion that ignorant people by denied the right to vote (and that is EXACTLY what it was despite any later disclaimer) is as despicable as it is dangerous. Most of the people in this group seemed willing enough to simply ignore this proposition, presumably for a variety of reasons. Indifference is one thing which comes readily to mind. Some may agree with him. I suspect, though, that a lot of people, whatever their feelings on the matter he proposed, would simply rather avoid any further off topic unpleasantness on a news group they feel should be dedicated solely to fly fishing. To me, this looks suspiciously like a willingness to allow people to do whatever they please out in the real world so long as they refrain from stirring things up in here; a very ass backward approach to life in my opinion. If it comes to choosing between maintaining tranquility in ROFF while allowing the larger world to go to hell, and raising hell here in the (perhaps vain) hope of making the real world a better place, I will go for the latter every time. In my estimation, and apparently quite a few agree, this sets me in direct opposition to a great many of the people who come here with another agenda, and as has been pointed out, this seems to make me something of an asshole by definition. So be it. Any time I expressly take on that title, it may be taken as an indication that I perceive a line drawn in the sand and am willing (at least) to cross it. I realize of course that any criticism of others, explicit or implicit, in any of the above can easily be turned back on me and welcome (gleefully) any effort to do so, for the obvious reason. Hope this answers your question Willi. If not, I’d be happy to continue either here or in private correspondence, as you choose. Wolfgang
I plead guilty to arrogance. Do you believe it’s a personality trait, or is it just laziness? I often think those who come off as arrogant do so because they’re too lazy to put in a real effort at being human.
So, does this make me something less than human or am I simply misreading a rather arrogant and insulting statement? Typically, I am nowhere near as ornery in face to face confrontations as I am here in cyberspace, ..and that’s the sad part, IMHO.. I try hard to never say something here that I wouldn’t say face to face.. I think it’s an admirable goal, even if we don’t succeed.
I believe the notion that the dynamics of face to face encounters could or should equal those of written text based exchanges is rather simplistic. If universally held, it would at the very least deprive us of much of the best work of Swift, Twain, Mencken, Parker, Voltaire, Bierce, Johnson, Paine, Shakespeare, and a host of others. I really don’t think it’s that hard to be civil here.
Agreed.
I plead guilty to arrogance.
Do you believe it’s a personality trait, or is it just laziness? I often think those who come off as arrogant do so because they’re too lazy to put in a real effort at being human. Typically, I am nowhere near as ornery in face to face confrontations as I am here in cyberspace,
..and that’s the sad part, IMHO.. I try hard to never say something here that I wouldn’t say face to face.. I think it’s an admirable goal, even if we don’t succeed. I really don’t think it’s that hard to be civil here.
There’s always the chance that some smartass amateur psychologist will insist on sticking his opinion in where it wasn’t asked for.
You just never know… — Charlie…
Everybody is an asshole sometimes. I know I am more often than I like. This is honestly a sincere question to Ken F. and Wolfgang. Both you guys frequently use the term "I am an asshole…" as, it seems to me, a reason/excuse for behavior. It seems to me that you both wave the label around with pride like it was the Congressional Medal of Honor or something. I’m unaware of anyone else in this group, or anyone else I know in "real" life, that uses this phrase the way you two do. Am I off base? What are you trying to convey when you do this?
Well, speaking only for myself, mind you, I am aware of the common (but evidently not universal) perception that I am an unpleasant person by nature. Quite a few people have pointed this out in this newsgroup using the term asshole or any of a number of close analogs. This causes me neither shame nor pride. It’s just another fact of life. In fact, I am quite capable of being abrasive and I plead guilty to arrogance. Typically, I am nowhere near as ornery in face to face confrontations as I am here in cyberspace, but that is largely due to the fact that I rarely find myself facing someone who feels comfortable saying the outrageous and often phenomenally stupid shit that so regularly shows up here. Contrary to what you have suggested, it is not because I am afraid of getting punched in the nose. You see Willi, that’s something of a double edged sword….cuts both ways, you know? Anyone who has been here for more than a couple of weeks knows that I can be civil, and I flatter myself that I can hold my own in a reasonable discussion on virtually any issue. We all have a certain threshold level of tolerance for inanity, bullshit, specious arguments, and other impedimenta. I’ve got a very low threshold. I am also prone to speaking my mind. Sometimes, I opt for subtlety, but more often than not I tend to go for the jugular. That’s the way it is in competitive events. And anyone who denies the competitive aspect of what goes on in here is either blind or lying. To be sure, it’s not all a competition, but there is enough of it to warrant mention. There’s more, but Becky just informed me that I MUST get showered up in preparation for a little wine tasting we’re hosting tonight. Evidently there are a few people willing to at least pretend to like me for a couple of hours. Rest assured that I’ll be back to complete this little dissertation some time before the end of the weekend. You see Willi, I wouldn’t dream of failing to answer YOUR questions. :) Wolfgang TTFN
Everybody is an asshole sometimes. I know I am more often than I like. This is honestly a sincere question to Ken F. and Wolfgang. Both you guys frequently use the term "I am an asshole…" as, it seems to me, a reason/excuse for behavior. It seems to me that you both wave the label around with pride like it was the Congressional Medal of Honor or something. I’m unaware of anyone else in this group, or anyone else I know in "real" life, that uses this phrase the way you two do. Am I off base? What are you trying to convey when you do this? Willi
What are you trying to convey when you do this?
Not sure if it applies in the current situation, but I have seen people in the past behave this way when they were feeling (as many of us do on occasion) irrelevant. FWIW — Charlie…
… This is honestly a sincere question to Ken F. …
Not a good idea to honestly pose a sincere question to a person on a Usenet newsgroup. There’s always the chance that some smartass amateur psychologist will insist on sticking his opinion in where it wasn’t asked for. The short answer has to do with picking your enemies and taking a sort of pride in being detestable to those whom you detest. The long answer is best delivered over beer after a day astream. — Ken Fortenberry
This summer I’m interested in fishing the flats in SW Florida (Ft Meyers area and south in to the Everglades). Does anyone have recommendations for good guides? Thanks
If they are booked up they will find you a guide in the area. — <*))))< Paul Phillips Director of Operations Fintastic Fish Mounts http://www.fintastic.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This summer I’m interested in fishing the flats in SW Florida (Ft Meyers area and south in to the Everglades). Does anyone have recommendations for good guides? Thanks
Check with Capt. Andrew Bostick 941-394-3010 Tell him Capt. Tommy Robinson sent you http://www.floridaredfish.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This summer I’m interested in fishing the flats in SW Florida (Ft Meyers area and south in to the Everglades). Does anyone have recommendations for good guides? Thanks
Try Capt. Chris Asaro. He has a site at <http://www.sightfish.net/ . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This summer I’m interested in fishing the flats in SW Florida (Ft Meyers area and south in to the Everglades). Does anyone have recommendations for good guides? Thanks
So, if I declare war on Mr. G before I were to shoot him, this would be justifiable homicide and not REDRUM! Opie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it becomes a murderer. Like it or not.
What does any of this have to do with fly fishing? Is there fly fishing to be done in the persian gulf? Should we hire a guide? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, if I declare war on Mr. G before I were to shoot him, this would be justifiable homicide and not REDRUM! Opie it becomes a murderer. Like it or not.
What does any of this have to do with fly fishing? Is there fly fishing to be done in the persian gulf? Should we hire a guide?
Aww, don’t be such a Jesuit. To paraphrase someone, an overly fanatic attention to neatness is a sign of an unhealthy mind. A little variation on a theme
I may be going to Las Vegas this summer, either June or July. I do not enjoy casinos, I’d rather be outdoors. Is there any good fly fishing in the area? I would appreciate any information.
I too *HATE* casinos and motel rooms are like coffins… …*BUT*, there is salvation in Vegas…the pools… the swimming pools…drinks brought poolside…it’s a hundred and twenty in the frikken shade and ahh…yes…the pools.. it’s like they say…when in Rome… The one thing that I have wanted to do is to try and find a sidewinder in the desert…I’ve never seen one. Of course then I’d be all tired and sweaty and thirsty and the pools would be crying out in their little pathetic voices…"Tim….Tim… come here Tim….I have that drink with the speared fruit and umbrella Tim…." But flyfishing…???? Maybe lead core at Mead…or possibly dry flies in the fountain at the Mirage casting at bikini latches or 100 dollar bills at the bar… — TimW Halfordian Golfer
I may be going to Las Vegas this summer, either June or July. I do not enjoy casinos, I’d rather be outdoors. Is there any good fly fishing in the area? I would appreciate any information. — Sincerely, Fred E. Nakaguma
I need advice. What is the best big streamer (3 in.) for fishing a Connecticut alewife lake for Browns?
I need advice. What is the best big streamer (3 in.) for fishing a Connecticut alewife lake for Browns?
Try a recipe for the Giant Bunker fly described in any saltwater fly patterns book. Alewifes look remarkably close to Menhaden (Bunker). Herring immitations should also be good. Hint: use Bozo hair from Elite. Jose
I need advice. What is the best big streamer (3 in.) for fishing a Connecticut alewife lake for Browns?
Well, having fished for Northern and Muskie this last summer up in Lake Of The Woods, I no longer thing of a 3" streamer as a ‘big’ fly. Kinda small, actually! <grin Anyway, go with "old reliable" – a Clouser Minnow, with a grey back and white belly. 3" is only about a #4-4XL hook. Use either bucktail or, if you want something REALLY flashy, silver and white Flashabou _dubbing_. They’ll do the job! — Joe Ellis o/~ The Synthetic Filker o/~ | TesserAct Studios ()X Darwin (; Now on the Web at | Fairfield, OH 45018 //~~~LL~~~~LL~ http://shell.idt.net/~ellis69 |New Dimensions In Filk! Unsolicited commercial E-mail will be proofread at US$25 hr/2 hr min.
Try a traditional little brown trout or something like a Silver Doctor. Okay, I’m out of date. — — Louis Bignami Visit http://www.finefishing.com Over 400 articles! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need advice. What is the best big streamer (3 in.) for fishing a Connecticut alewife lake for Browns?
Try a Gray Ghost. It’s deadly. MZ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need advice. What is the best big streamer (3 in.) for fishing a Connecticut alewife lake for Browns?
I don’t know about where you live but a big brown egg sucking leech (heavily weighted) with some yellow maribou mixed in with the brown/black maribou for the tail is my FAVORITE spring-time brown trout fly. I need advice. What is the best big streamer (3 in.) for fishing a Connecticut alewife lake for Browns
– Brian D. Nelson, Missoula, Montana Montana Flyfishing and Hunting Outfitter http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm http://www.montana.com/dno/hunt.htm
Agree about grey ghosts. Also, try a "beer-belly" zonker in white.
I am looking for a telephone number (or adress) of a company called Float Tube Unlimited. Thanks in advance Thomas — Sender: Thomas Urbig Harvard University Institute for Molecular and Cellular Biology 16 Divinity Ave. Cambridge, MA 02138 Tel: (USA) 617 495 3716; Fax: (USA) 617 496 8726
Quoting Thomas from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly <I am looking for a telephone number (or adress) of a company called <Float Tube Unlimited. Jim Carlisle
I tried to get a catalog off thier 1-800 #, 3 freak’n times. NO LUCK. Whats with that company??? I went with Cabela’s. John
It’s pretty sad when the first post to a new group, fly tying, is SPAM. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The FISHING LOG is a Powerful Software Program for Windows It tracks every aspect of your fishing trips/sessions in great detail. It is colorful, extremely powerful and very user friendly. Keeps track of just about anything you can think of in Fresh Water or Salt. It is a large program of research quality but you can just keep up the sections YOU wish. Export data to other programs for analysis, printing and charting. The best part is that if you download it yourself it is FREE. Mind that the last characters in the WWW address are all UPPERCASE! Bob Sheedy Master Angler http://www.mbnet.mb.ca/~sheedyr/FISHING.HTM
The FISHING LOG is a Powerful Software Program for Windows It tracks every aspect of your fishing trips/sessions in great detail. It is colorful, extremely powerful and very user friendly. Keeps track of just about anything you can think of in Fresh Water or Salt. It is a large program of research quality but you can just keep up the sections YOU wish. Export data to other programs for analysis, printing and charting. The best part is that if you download it yourself it is FREE. Mind that the last characters in the WWW address are all UPPERCASE! Bob Sheedy Master Angler http://www.mbnet.mb.ca/~sheedyr/FISHING.HTM
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -can anyone give me some suggestions? i’ve read quite a bit of e-mail posted here at this forum recommending how to do a lot of things. you can’t begin to believe how much this has helped! so, i am looking for additional help in storing a quantity of feathers, necks, backs (terminology?) of pheasant feathers. i received a LARGE quantitiy of these from a hunting friend who doesn’t fly fish. i would like to store these for use in tying flies at a later time. (in the process of gathering info on first books to buy for tying, first vises, etc.). SO, what would be a good way to store these? how long would these last if stored properly? in some cases, i have the complete (hide?)bird. how do i store these? any and all info or comments/replys would be greatly appreciated. i’m learning and want to continue to learn! happy thankgiving and tight lines! john
suggestion for feather/skin storage: most important with skins is to make sure they a very clean. scrape all fat, meat.etc.from skin side. apply corase salt to skin fror at least a week then clean thoroughly. using something like a tupperware or rubbermaid container put skins or feathers flat and put either moth crystals or balls in container and seal tightly. skins and feathers will remain pristine for years this way. I have bought old collections of skins (over 80 years old) that were packed in cedar chips from museums. they would pack a entire bird in a celophane bag with the chips and seal. feathers last for years this way…and smell good. secret to keeping feathers/skins in tying condition is to make sure they are clean when stored; laid as flat as possible; kept as cool (40-60 degrees) as possible. We have some feathers that are over 100 years old that look like they were plucked last week. Stuffed birds should be wrapped ,demothed and sealed in the proper sized baggie or similar bag. Best of luck, phil castleman Castle Arms/Fishermen’s Furs &Feathers
Put the feathers, furs, etc. in ziplok bags and store in the freezer. They will last indefinitely and will kill most pests if frozen for more than 30 days.
i received a LARGE quantitiy of these from a hunting friend who doesn’t fly fish. i would like to store these for use in tying flies at a later time…
Here’s my suggestion: Tell your friend thanks and suggest in some off-hand way, that if other game birds ever cross his sight plane that you’d be happy to take the feathers. Take what ever you think you might want and do the moth ball/ziplock bag/freezer trick. If you’re really determined to keep whole sets, Feathercraft use to sell some sort of powder to cure the skin. The product name and the company number escape me at the moment but it is a fairly easy project. Before you get carried away, remember that one pheasant goes a long, long way. They feathers are very pretty but there’s only so many pt nymphs, philoplume patterns and crawfish you can tie.
can anyone give me some suggestions? i’ve read quite a bit of e-mail posted here at this forum recommending how to do a lot of things. you can’t begin to believe how much this has helped! so, i am looking for additional help in storing a quantity of feathers, necks, backs (terminology?) of pheasant feathers. i received a LARGE quantitiy of these from a hunting friend who doesn’t fly fish. i would like to store these for use in tying flies at a later time. (in the process of gathering info on first books to buy for tying, first vises, etc.). SO, what would be a good way to store these? how long would these last if stored properly? in some cases, i have the complete (hide?)bird. how do i store these? any and all info or comments/replys would be greatly appreciated. i’m learning and want to continue to learn! happy thankgiving and tight lines! john