The village idiot has shown uncharacteristic wisdom and good sense in avoiding me, as evidenced by actually being in Ennis during the first Western ‘Clave and not daring to show his face. Outrageous fantasies like you describe above, should he decide to believe them, would not work out well in reality. Hey Tough Guy, you’re sure a BAD ass! You want to take on a guy with what, twenty years on you? I’m sure that you strutted around with this macho, hard guy attitude at the local bars in Gardiner.
My experience has always been that those who go around bragging about how tough they are, aren’t. - Ken
… I honestly believe it would be water under the bridge if you’d just act like a regular person, show up, meet some people and hang out. OK, maybe a couple that you have really pissed will need some sort of apology first, … The village idiot has shown uncharacteristic wisdom and good sense in avoiding me, as evidenced by actually being in Ennis during the first Western ‘Clave and not daring to show his face. Outrageous fantasies like you describe above, should he decide to believe them, would not work out well in reality.
You are such a sssstud. I wanna be just like you when I’m an old geezer with a chip on my shoulder. - Ken
I would not hesitate to call this to the attention of the appropriate authorities.
Your finest hour, I’d imagine. — Charlie…
Really Ken? I would say that most anyone of good character and wisdom would avoid *you* too, but there are some folk here that seem to like or at least tolerate you, and I believe they are of decent character and wise beyond belief–so go figure this one. I will be at the Penn’s ‘Clave, and will at least attempt to fish with George/you, should y’all show. Is this an unwise move on my part? The occasion will certainly give you an opportunity to give George and me the verbal thrashing that we so richly deserve, as I know, "in reality", you are not suggesting that you might become physical with another ROFFian.
Hi Op, You appear to have a great mellon on your shoulders. If you ever show up in Montana, drop me an email and I would be happy to show you some of my *new* home waters. Thanks for trying to keep Ken honest. Paul — remove all x’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.
… I honestly believe it would be water under the bridge if you’d just act like a regular person, show up, meet some people and hang out. OK, maybe a couple that you have really pissed will need some sort of apology first, …
The village idiot has shown uncharacteristic wisdom and good sense in avoiding me, as evidenced by actually being in Ennis during the first Western ‘Clave and not daring to show his face. Outrageous fantasies like you describe above, should he decide to believe them, would not work out well in reality. — Ken Fortenberry
okay
–waldo, ticket concessionaire….. have coat rack, will travel.
okay –waldo, ticket concessionaire….. have coat rack, will travel.
I predict bad weather. — Charlie…
okay –waldo, ticket concessionaire….. have coat rack, will travel. I predict bad weather.
Exactly.
The village idiot has shown uncharacteristic wisdom and good sense in avoiding me, as evidenced by actually being in Ennis during the first Western ‘Clave and not daring to show his face. Outrageous fantasies like you describe above, should he decide to believe them, would not work out well in reality. — Ken Fortenberry
Really Ken? I would say that most anyone of good character and wisdom would avoid *you* too, but there are some folk here that seem to like or at least tolerate you, and I believe they are of decent character and wise beyond belief–so go figure this one. I will be at the Penn’s ‘Clave, and will at least attempt to fish with George/you, should y’all show. Is this an unwise move on my part? The occasion will certainly give you an opportunity to give George and me the verbal thrashing that we so richly deserve, as I know, "in reality", you are not suggesting that you might become physical with another ROFFian. Op –reluctant pacifist–
Op writes: I will be at the Penn’s ‘Clave, and will at least attempt to fish with George/you, should y’all show.
Uh, Op, George won’t be at the Penns Clave. Three things will keep him from showing up: 1. A yellow stripe down his back. 2. He doesn’t have a pilot’s license. 3. A yellow stripe down his back. But, I hope to fish with ya. <g Dave
… I will be at the Penn’s ‘Clave, and will at least attempt to fish with George/you, should y’all show. Is this an unwise move on my part? …
George won’t show and I’m pretty picky about who I fish with. I would decline to fish with any "sportsman" who’s nigh on a poacher and who boasts of destructive and illegal joy rides in our National Forests. An unwise move would be carrying an illegal concealed weapon. I would not hesitate to call this to the attention of the appropriate authorities. — Ken Fortenberry
HI op, send me an e-mail. I need your return e-mail address. Tried to send you something, but it just bounces. TL MC
The village idiot has shown uncharacteristic wisdom and good sense in avoiding me, as evidenced by actually being in Ennis during the first Western ‘Clave and not daring to show his face. Outrageous fantasies like you describe above, should he decide to believe them, would not work out well in reality.
Hey Tough Guy, you’re sure a BAD ass! You want to take on a guy with what, twenty years on you? I’m sure that you strutted around with this macho, hard guy attitude at the local bars in Gardiner. Willi
What a nice thing to say Willi. Enjoying your posts. George
yes, george, most of us share that feeling. and do you know why absolutely no one will respond to your posts in a similar fashion? because when you had the opportunity to describe your experience with the same sort of improving fisherman, you used it as the means to drop names, describe your own excellence, and falsely attribute an hyperegotistical statement to your adoring sheep: "…even an icon like you, george (or words to that effect)…" until you accept the fact that the difference between you and folks like willi is not measured by absolute talent or experience, but how you relate to your fellow man, you will never be accepted among gentlemen in the fashion you so deeply desire. awh
Got back from a great trip to The Juan, again admirably hosted by Bruce. Some good fishing, decent weather and great companionship.
[ Nice compliments from a true fisher-gentlemen snipped...] I also had a great time at the Juan. It’s one thing to read books and watch videos. As a novice, you can learn a great deal by experimenting on your own. It’s the *real* thing to watch guys like Willi, Charlie, Bruce, Warren, et al, work a piece of water. If your within eyesight or earshot of them, you can’t help but improve, fishing and otherwise. It has been often said that "Those that can, do. Those that can’t, teach." These fellows prove that, for the friends of the gifted, doing and teaching are the same thing. Danl
yes, george, most of us share that feeling. and do you know why absolutely no one will respond to your posts in a similar fashion? because when you had the opportunity to describe your experience with the same sort of improving fisherman, you used it as the means to drop names, describe your own excellence, and falsely attribute an hyperegotistical statement to your adoring sheep: "…even an icon like you, george (or words to that effect)…" until you accept the fact that the difference between you and folks like willi is not measured by absolute talent or experience, but how you relate to your fellow man, you will never be accepted among gentlemen in the fashion you so deeply desire. awh
I’m sure that is the way it seems to you Wayne, but rest assured you should not take me as seriously as you do. I’m just the guy across the river that keeps stumbling on his untied tennis shoes. Nothing more, nothing less. geg
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yes, george, most of us share that feeling. and do you know why absolutely no one will respond to your posts in a similar fashion? because when you had the opportunity to describe your experience with the same sort of improving fisherman, you used it as the means to drop names, describe your own excellence, and falsely attribute an hyperegotistical statement to your adoring sheep: "…even an icon like you, george (or words to that effect)…" until you accept the fact that the difference between you and folks like willi is not measured by absolute talent or experience, but how you relate to your fellow man, you will never be accepted among gentlemen in the fashion you so deeply desire. awh I’m sure that is the way it seems to you Wayne, but rest assured you should not take me as seriously as you do. I’m just the guy across the river that keeps stumbling on his untied tennis shoes. Nothing more, nothing less. geg
…well, why doesn’t that "guy" post here more often. sounds like someone i could appreciate and identify with… why don’t you come to penns in may and stumble about with the rest of us? jeff
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yes, george, most of us share that feeling. and do you know why absolutely no one will respond to your posts in a similar fashion? because when you had the opportunity to describe your experience with the same sort of improving fisherman, you used it as the means to drop names, describe your own excellence, and falsely attribute an hyperegotistical statement to your adoring sheep: "…even an icon like you, george (or words to that effect)…" until you accept the fact that the difference between you and folks like willi is not measured by absolute talent or experience, but how you relate to your fellow man, you will never be accepted among gentlemen in the fashion you so deeply desire. awh I’m sure that is the way it seems to you Wayne, but rest assured you should not take me as seriously as you do. I’m just the guy across the river that keeps stumbling on his untied tennis shoes. Nothing more, nothing less. geg …well, why doesn’t that "guy" post here more often. sounds like someone i could appreciate and identify with… why don’t you come to penns in may and stumble about with the rest of us? jeff
okay
…..I’m just the guy across the river that keeps stumbling on his untied
tennis shoes….. Yes, well, that’s because you always have at least one foot in your mouth. The mouth is, of course, firmly attached to your head, and we all know where that lives. No one could possibly walk thus contorted, even with velcro closures. Then again, you’re an idiot. Wolfgang
… why don’t you come to penns in may … okay
Yeah, that would be … interesting. — Ken Fortenberry
I’m just the guy across the river that keeps stumbling on his untied tennis shoes. Nothing more, nothing less. geg
You misspelled "gag" BTW. –Steve
I’m sure that is the way it seems to you Wayne, but rest assured you should not take me as seriously as you do. I’m just the guy across the river that keeps stumbling on his untied tennis shoes. Nothing more, nothing less. …well, why doesn’t that "guy" post here more often. sounds like someone i could appreciate and identify with… why don’t you come to penns in may and stumble about with the rest of us? okay
You know what the funny thing is George? As much as you appear to be a buffoon, as much as you irritate people, as much as you are downright despised by a few, I honestly believe it would be water under the bridge if you’d just act like a regular person, show up, meet some people and hang out. OK, maybe a couple that you have really pissed will need some sort of apology first, but on the whole this is an incredible group of gentlemen that will accept people for what they are and be genuinely nice to anyone that is at least sincere, and approachable, and who possesses an ego no larger than, say, the state in which they are fishing. Considering how much people seem to dislike you, don’t you find it remarkable how many invitations you get to claves? People here are interested in camaraderie and sharing, not self-aggrandizement. I think you’d be surprised what could change. I do not hate you. You’ve insulted me personally, in counterattack to be fair, but nothing that I ever took seriously. The times you have really offended me were times when you were not speaking directly to me, when you tried to make yourself more important than the things we hold dear, such as a clave, or a friendship, or the memory of a person.
It has been often said that "Those that can, do. Those that can’t, teach." These fellows prove that, for the friends of the gifted, doing and teaching are the same thing.
Yeah man.
Got back from a great trip to The Juan, again admirably hosted by Bruce. Some good fishing, decent weather and great companionship. However, the thing that gave me the most pleasure was to see the growth in fly fishing skills of a couple of the participants. I’ve been fishing with most of these guys for about a year and a half. I was very impressed by the progress made by a couple of the guys. They started with little idea where to cast the fly, an inability to put the fly where they wanted, no clue as to what fly to choose and forget about presentation. (No offense meant by this) They have progressed to the point that they were able to catch fussy fish on a large river in difficult, murky water conditions. They were able to choose appropriate flies (one of them even gave me a couple flies that were effective for me the next day on several very tough fish), find appropriate spots and use appropriate techniques that resulted in some nice fish. Great to see! Willi
What a nice thing to say Willi. Enjoying your posts. George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Got back from a great trip to The Juan, again admirably hosted by Bruce. Some good fishing, decent weather and great companionship. However, the thing that gave me the most pleasure was to see the growth in fly fishing skills of a couple of the participants. I’ve been fishing with most of these guys for about a year and a half. I was very impressed by the progress made by a couple of the guys. They started with little idea where to cast the fly, an inability to put the fly where they wanted, no clue as to what fly to choose and forget about presentation. (No offense meant by this) They have progressed to the point that they were able to catch fussy fish on a large river in difficult, murky water conditions. They were able to choose appropriate flies (one of them even gave me a couple flies that were effective for me the next day on several very tough fish), find appropriate spots and use appropriate techniques that resulted in some nice fish. Great to see! Willi
Jim Benenson wrote How about the worst fly fishing abuse in this forum?
Back in ‘78 I visited Wisconsin and a guy there introduced me to using a 9ft. flyrod to worm fish for brookies. Ironically, when you’re fishing in streams with lots of canopy and brush, the long flexible rod is the ideal weapon for gently dropping the worm right in the little eddy or undercut. If you were flyfishing one of these streams, you’d probably be using no more than a 7ft or less. — -dnc-
I was part of a discussion on a coffee newsgroup about the worst coffee ever made. How about the worst fly fishing abuse in this forum? I once trolled for pickerel in Connecticut with a Daredevil spoon and my Orvis 8 wt. bamboo rod. Caught some too! How about you?
I was fishing the Gunpowder River north of Baltimore last July, right below Prettyboy Dam. The state was in the middle of the worst drought and heat spell in years, but the water authorities were dumping water from the Prettyboy Reservoir at maximum rate, presumably to water the partched lawns in Baltimore. Anyway, I wasn’t doing much good with my Woolly Buggers, and no one was around (on this artificial-only water), so I turned over some boards and logs, found some nice, juicy worms, and just cleaned up on the brown trout. One cast, one trout. Repeat. I justified it to myself by rationalizing that I was trying to get the monster carp I saw hanging below the dropoff. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)
A ten foot six four weight with a nice small free running centrepin takes an awful lot of beating. Upstream worming is rapidly becoming a lost art. lthough a not inconsiderable measure of excitement is also possible with a number six hook, a can of sweetcorn, and a nice clear, peaceful still-water, where carp of ten pounds and upwards are known to abound. Even more satisfying, when one of the club members reports you to the comittee for "fly-fishing" on the lake reserved for coarse anglers. ( Or was that coarse fish ? ). Whatever, excellent sport, and not a whit less exciting than any other method. Oh how hard it must be to forego the pleasures of diversity. Oh and I object to the word "abuse" in this context. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim Benenson wrote How about the worst fly fishing abuse in this forum?
Honesty is good for the soul, confession even more so, but I defy even the most honorable angler to remain so in the face of nonchalant five pound browns ignoring every fly in the box. And the moral is, where there
Yes and no. 
) Frank (it ain’t me in Elkhart) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The good Senator and I were not related and didn’t share the same politics either. Of course that’s JUST what we could expect you to say under the circumstances! Got any ID bub? Would you agree to a DNA analysis?
This post was posted to a UK fishing group. I thought it might interest some of you. I am sure the original posters will not mind me copying it, as I have corresponded with them both in the past. TL MC I realize this is a bit off-topic, but my daughter saw this and asked me to ask ‘the nice British fisherman’ about it. The Canadian News has picked up a story about a journalist who was literally branded by the "ALF" (Animal Liberation Front?) . Is this true? Are these the same nutters who attack fisherman and throw bricks at their floats, smash their rods, etc? If they are, it’s very chilling. It’s one thing to disagree. Another to actually take hot iron to a man’s back for disagreeing.
Peter, Sadly it’s true 
The journalist in question had written, exposing some of the more extremist members of the ALF. He was kidnapped and held in fear of his life. Hooded with a hesian sack, he expected execution. When he felt the pain, and smelled the burning flesh, he realised he had been branded. A.L.-F across his back in very large letters. I guess that the perpetuators felt that this was only a small payback for the pain and suffering caused daily to animals in laboratories etc. Sick, sick, sick and twisted people The extremists in the Animals Rights and Anti-angling circles tend to be the same small group of people, surrounded both by harmless nutters and well-meaning (we would think misguided) people.
Anbody wishing to see the original article: Click on the following link and then ‘Britain’: http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/pages/Times/frontpage.html?999 The article is about a quarter of the way down the page. TL MC
This post was posted to a UK fishing group. I thought it might interest some of you. I am sure the original posters will not mind me copying it, as I have corresponded with them both in the past. TL MC
ALF is a terrorist group, no debate about it. I find if utterly shocking that these people seem to think that animals are equal or more important than humans. I can’t imagine where these people get their convictions, but they can’t possibly be healthy, IMO. — Levi Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. –Ernest Hemingway
ALF is a terrorist group, no debate about it. I find if utterly shocking that these people seem to think that animals are equal or more important than humans. I can’t imagine where these people get their convictions, but they can’t possibly be healthy, IMO.
You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other? You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc." That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days. Frank (stirring the pot in Elkhart) Church
You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other? You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc." That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days. Frank (stirring the pot in Elkhart) Church
Your ommission of Louie LaPlac’s goat, affectionately known as Mildred, will be noted as the insult it is. Mark Faulkner
Louie, please relay my apologies to Mildred as I would never intentionally insult someone who is obviously adored by you. Sorry. (think that’ll do it Mark?) Frank (goatbreath) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other? You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc." That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days. Frank (stirring the pot in Elkhart) Church Your ommission of Louie LaPlac’s goat, affectionately known as Mildred, will be noted as the insult it is. Mark Faulkner
Don’t some animals eat their young? I am also waiting for some Animal Rights Activist to show me a hospital built by animals. Weren’t you a Senator from Idaho before you died? DP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ALF is a terrorist group, no debate about it. I find if utterly shocking that these people seem to think that animals are equal or more important than humans. I can’t imagine where these people get their convictions, but they can’t possibly be healthy, IMO. You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other? You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc." That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days. Frank (stirring the pot in Elkhart) Church
You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other? You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc. That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days.
I guess the fact that many animals routinely kill and eat other animals for sustenance, (sometimes including the young of their own species), doesn’t enter into the equation. George "turning up the fire a notch" Adams
Don’t some animals eat their young?
Yes, some animals do eat their young, sows can lay on their piglets and suffocate most or all of them, a tomcat will kill every kitten in the litter if he can whup mama cat first, and on and on, but that’s nature’s way, in no way can it be equated with with mans actions. Screw PETA, ALF and all the rest of these wackos. Weren’t you a Senator from Idaho before you died?
I see you remember Senator Frank Church of Idaho. Evidently he wasn’t too popular in some quarters in Idaho. One time I stopped for gas in a small town there, gave the guy my credit card, whereupon after seeing the name on the card, gave me a squinty-eyed look and asked, "are you related to Senator Frank Church?" I’m not, and said so, but might have denied it in any case as he looked ready to dump sugar in my gas tank or some other dastardly deed. The good Senator and I were not related and didn’t share the same politics either.
Absolutely not George, as I stated in an earlier post, equating the animal kingdom which operates on inborn instinct to do what is necessary to survive, to "man" is bogus. Ascribing human traits to animals is a mistake. So if a tomcat kills the litter of kittens he finds, we are horrified. But he does that for a reason…..he is "offing" future competition for breeding the available female cats. But if humans do that, it is mass murder. The two don’t equate at any level. My favorite pussy cat, who purrs on my lap and nuzzles me, and makes me feel all warm and fuzzy, will sneak out in the yard and try to kill a bird….she is living in two worlds, ours and hers. If I catch her eating a bird do I beat the shit out of her…no way. I recognize she still has that hunter instinct of her breed. We, on the other hand, are supposed to be "civilized," whatever the hell that means in this day and age. Frank (trying to piss on George’s fire) Church
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other? You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc. That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days. I guess the fact that many animals routinely kill and eat other animals for sustenance, (sometimes including the young of their own species), doesn’t enter into the equation. George "turning up the fire a notch" Adams
Ascribing human traits to animals is a mistake.
Frank, I guess I misunderstood your your post, because I thought that was exactly what you were doing. (i.e. "good" animals vs. "bad" humans) Animals are niether good nor bad…..they are just animals. A rattlesnake can kill you, and a dog can be your faithful companion for many years, but is the dog "better" than the rattlesnake? I don’t think so….they are what they are. Humans are subject to many failings, and because we have free will we can be held accountable for our actions, and judged by our peers to be good or bad. As more people populate the earth, we will see more of the bad, especially since the media will show it to us at every opportunity. On the whole, are animals "better" than humans? I say no. George Adams
I see you remember Senator Frank Church of Idaho. Evidently he wasn’t too popular in some quarters in Idaho. One time I stopped for gas in a small town there, gave the guy my credit card, whereupon after seeing the name on the card, gave me a squinty-eyed look and asked, "are you related to Senator Frank Church?" I’m not, and said so, but might have denied it in any case as he looked ready to dump sugar in my gas tank or some other dastardly deed. The good Senator and I were not related and didn’t share the same politics either.
Sen. Frank Church was one of the all-time great national figures. He did more for conservation anyone else in politics I can think of, with the possible exception of Teddy Rooseveldt. The Frank Church Wilderness in Idaho is named after him. It’s spectacular, enclosing the finest wilderness river in the lower 48 — the Middle Fork of the Salmon. I’m just sickened by the cast of disreputable characters that have taken over Idaho politics at the national level. I miss you, Frank, and I miss Sen.Chafee of Rhode Island, a Republican who wasn’t afraid to stand up for the public interest. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)
You’re right of course, and Sen. Church should have been recognized with having a wilderness area named in his honor, at the least. I didn’t mean to denigrate him, and hope you didn’t take it that way.
Of course I didn’t, Frank. I’m sorry to have implied that. The FCWA is some spectacular country that I’d love to see up close and personal, like say, astride a horse on a pack-in flyfishing trip.
What you have to do is to take a week-long raft trip down the Middle Fork. There are other ways to see this country, but a raft (or drift boat) trip is the best. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I see you remember Senator Frank Church of Idaho. Evidently he wasn’t too popular in some quarters in Idaho. One time I stopped for gas in a small town there, gave the guy my credit card, whereupon after seeing the name on the card, gave me a squinty-eyed look and asked, "are you related to Senator Frank Church?" I’m not, and said so, but might have denied it in any case as he looked ready to dump sugar in my gas tank or some other dastardly deed. The good Senator and I were not related and didn’t share the same politics either. Sen. Frank Church was one of the all-time great national figures. He did more for conservation anyone else in politics I can think of, with the possible exception of Teddy Rooseveldt. The Frank Church Wilderness in Idaho is named after him. It’s spectacular, enclosing the finest wilderness river in the lower 48 — the Middle Fork of the Salmon. I’m just sickened by the cast of disreputable characters that have taken over Idaho politics at the national level. I miss you, Frank, and I miss Sen.Chafee of Rhode Island, a Republican who wasn’t afraid to stand up for the public interest. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)
They named the north loop in Dallas the LBJ Freeway in honor of LBJ because they stole all of the land.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sen. Frank Church was one of the all-time great national figures. He did more for conservation anyone else in politics I can think of, with the possible exception of Teddy Rooseveldt. The Frank Church Wilderness in Idaho is named after him. It’s spectacular, enclosing the finest wilderness river in the lower 48 — the Middle Fork of the Salmon. I’m just sickened by the cast of disreputable characters that have taken over Idaho politics at the national level. I miss you, Frank, and I miss Sen.Chafee of Rhode Island, a Republican who wasn’t afraid to stand up for the public interest.
You’re right of course, and Sen. Church should have been recognized with having a wilderness area named in his honor, at the least. I didn’t mean to denigrate him, and hope you didn’t take it that way. The FCWA is some spectacular country that I’d love to see up close and personal, like say, astride a horse on a pack-in flyfishing trip. That will probably never happen but at least it’s nice to know it’s there, and waiting. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)
They named the north loop in Dallas the LBJ Freeway in honor of LBJ because they stole all of the land.
in view of the fact that "land stealing" is a well known core component of successful capitalism, i should think that lbj would occupy a prime space in your pantheon of heroes, david. not that i, too, am *not* a capitalist; it just seems that if one is labeled a "democrat" (whatever that is), you refuse to believe that he can also be a capitalist. i think you will have to admit that materialism is no respecter of political labels. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
in view of the fact that "land stealing" is a well known core component of successful capitalism, i should think that lbj would occupy a prime space in your pantheon of heroes, david.
Not to mention the fact that LBJ was a *serious* poon hound<g. — Charlie…
LBJ because they stole all of the land. My parents house was just a couple of miles north of where they built the LBJ Freeway and in our house it was always refered to as the SOB Freeway. Big Dale
But there was no one better at getting out the cementary vote than LBJ. Whether you were a republican or democrat…if you were dead…you always casted your vote for Lyndon. obroff (this one should be fun): How many believe that LBJ had a hand in the Dallas assassination of JFK? Waldo — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112 Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001
LBJ because they stole all of the land.
My parents house was just a couple of miles north of where they built the LBJ Freeway and in our house it was always refered to as the SOB Freeway. Big Dale
obroff (this one should be fun): How many believe that LBJ had a hand in the Dallas assassination of JFK? Waldo
Just a note Waldo, the MOSAD ran a full scale scenario of the Dallas shooting with their best marksmen and could not duplicate the event. Their official report said that Oswald didn’t do it. The KGB didn’t do it and the Kremlin believed Kennedy to be the one man in Washington they could trust to some degree. I wonder if they have the same faith in Clinton? Remember the quote from the Navigator in Dune? "…plots within plots, within plots…" — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.
Remember the quote from the Navigator in Dune? "…plots within plots, within plots…"
Wayne, for an old feller you sure seem rather adept with pop culture references. Mu
In article <Pine.SOL.4.10.9911101035150.17986- Wayne, for an old feller you sure seem rather adept with pop culture references. Mu
Mu, I’ve never been too bashful to steal the good stuff from anybody’s culture!! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.
The good Senator and I were not related and didn’t share the same politics either.
Of course that’s JUST what we could expect you to say under the circumstances! Got any ID bub? Would you agree to a DNA analysis?
How many believe that LBJ had a hand in the Dallas assassination of JFK?
Dallas assassinated an airport? Huh? Where was I in ‘63?
Much better! We’ve engaged! I have no idea what most of that meant, but at least it was an attempt! I noticed, too, that you switched your point of attack from "don’t read the posts you don’t like" to "geez, the threads sometimes do get tangled; deal with it." Hmmm? What might that suggest? See how I changed the subject header, before responding? See how you knew exactly what post I was replying to, and yet everybody knows this won’t be a post about fly fishing! It’s easy and fun, and you can do it, too! Come on, silly Mikey.
i’ve never been so pissed, nor have i been this dissed, to see such a complete off-topic, by this jeff hull myopic, he just doesn’t get the gist…. –wataugan "here’s lookin at ya" walt :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Much better! We’ve engaged! I have no idea what most of that meant, but at least it was an attempt! I noticed, too, that you switched your point of attack from "don’t read the posts you don’t like" to "geez, the threads sometimes do get tangled; deal with it." Hmmm? What might that suggest? See how I changed the subject header, before responding? See how you knew exactly what post I was replying to, and yet everybody knows this won’t be a post about fly fishing! It’s easy and fun, and you can do it, too! Come on, silly Mikey.
I think now George needs to have a poetry section on his web page, I had no idea you guys had such a gift of prose. A how-how- how-how…….ZZ TOP cira1973 TWL….Big Al i’ve never been so pissed, nor have i been this dissed, to see such a complete off-topic, by this jeff hull myopic, he just doesn’t get the gist…. –wataugan "here’s lookin at ya" walt :) Much better! We’ve engaged! I have no idea what most of that meant, but at least it was an attempt! I noticed, too, that you switched your point of attack from "don’t read the posts you don’t like" to "geez, the threads sometimes do get tangled; deal with it." Hmmm? What might that suggest? See how I changed the subject header, before responding? See how you knew exactly what post I was replying to, and yet everybody knows this won’t be a post about fly fishing! It’s easy and fun, and you can do it, too! Come on, silly Mikey.
i’ve never been so pissed, nor have i been this dissed, to see such a complete off-topic, by this jeff hull myopic, he just doesn’t get the gist…. –wataugan "here’s lookin at ya" walt :) An excellent color to go with the verse, If it had been typed in brown it would have been worse. When playing with words, ROFF will always have turds, Whose critique they continue to nurse. Anthony Ritter
Tony Ritter schrieb in Nachricht t… An excellent color to go with the verse, If it had been typed in brown it would have been worse. When playing with words, ROFF will always have turds, Whose critique they continue to nurse. Hey Tony ! Way to go ! This colour thing opens up completely new dimensions ! Tight lines ! and scintillating colours ! Mike Connor
quelle sont les grandes marques de canne a mouche au canada merci d avance
quelle sont les grandes marques de canne a mouche au canada merci d avance
The question asks what great Canadian brands of fly rod there might be. The short answer is none: 1. No one makes their own blanks (plastic or cane) (so far as I know.) 2. There are few rod making factories (as distinct from individual craftsmen), none reputed for high-quality rods. — | Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs, | | Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734 |
quelle sont les grandes marques de canne a mouche au canada merci d avance
Premi
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there, I’ve tried my hand at catching Sockeye but have not had much luck. I’m not even sure what the best technique is to catch them. Could someone give some tips as to how best to fish for these elusive creatures? What patterns work best? Floating line/Dry line? Down stream drift or greased line technique? Thanks, Dave.
Hi all, A good friend that guides in Alaska says that they really don’t take flies. They can be caught on a fly when they are real concentrated. The fly and leader swing across their open mouth and when it come up tight they are hooked on the opposite side on the outside of the mouth. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY
A good friend that guides in Alaska says that they really don’t take flies. They can be caught on a fly when they are real concentrated. The fly and leader swing across their open mouth and when it come up tight they are hooked on the opposite side on the outside of the mouth. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY
Here on the Fraser near Vancouver BC this is called the ‘flossing theory" The leader may get caught in the fishes mouth and or teeth and then the current draws the fly into the mouth. Like flossing the fishes teeth. It may happen but a couple of facts argue against it: – if the fish are not mouthing the bait hook-ups in pods of salmon are usually foul hooking ; the body of the fish is a larger ‘target’. I fished in this situation a lot and can’t remember a single snag hook yp near the mouth but pleanty elsewhere. It’s a bad sign as taking fish this way isn’t sport: it’s a form of poaching or harassment. – the Fraser runs are made up of a variety of runs to many different tributaries: the Stuart (upper and lower) the Quesnel and Horsefly, the Chilcotin, the Adams, Birkenhead, Weaver Creek and many others. Some of these runs have reputations as "Biters" (ie the Horsefly) others are not known as biters (the Adams) the Stuart fish ‘bite’ but not to the extent of the Horsefly fish. if the "flossing theory" holds this shouldn’t be the case. Sockeye are also taken in saltwater. Some anglers using light tackle have fished visible surface schools and actually seen the sockeye chasing lures. On the other hand some anglers have - to prove a point – fished with bare hooks and taken their share of sockeye fairly hooked, from the murky Fraser. What fish bites a bare hook? Ralph H
Hi there, I’ve tried my hand at catching Sockeye but have not had much luck. I’m not even sure what the best technique is to catch them. Could someone give some tips as to how best to fish for these elusive creatures? What patterns work best? Floating line/Dry line? Down stream drift or greased line technique? Thanks, Dave.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there, I’ve tried my hand at catching Sockeye but have not had much luck. I’m not even sure what the best technique is to catch them. Could someone give some tips as to how best to fish for these elusive creatures? What patterns work best? Floating line/Dry line? Down stream drift or greased line technique? Thanks, Dave.
I’m scoring 0 for 3. Nobody along my bar even got a hit yesterday. That like 20+ fishermen. I’ve heard that the fish are holding in the current and bar fishermen just aren’t getting any. — The views expressed are my own and does not represent those of my employer.
Next time I’m taking a shooting head and a spool of mono. – either that or I’m buying a drift rod! Ralph H
Hi Ralph: Next you’ll be fishing with wigglers? —
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there, I’ve tried my hand at catching Sockeye but have not had much luck. I’m not even sure what the best technique is to catch them. Could someone give some tips as to how best to fish for these elusive creatures? What patterns work best? Floating line/Dry line? Down stream drift or greased line technique? Thanks, Dave. I’m scoring 0 for 3. Nobody along my bar even got a hit yesterday. That like 20+ fishermen. I’ve heard that the fish are holding in the current and bar fishermen just aren’t getting any.
Huge numbers of fish were caught on the bar I was on yesterday. Trouble was the fish were 100 feet out or better and were all but impossible to reach will standard fly tackle. I was the only fly chucker of about 6 who touched a fish. However the drift boys were using standayd pencil lead and reaching the outer current break with 150 foot casts; flourescent chartreuse and emerald wool was the usual lure often boyed with a corky or spin ‘n glo. The fish I hooked was on a marabou pattern size 1 emerald wound over chartreuse. I used half a deep water express 550 looped to a floating line and a 6 foot leader. (all the drift guys used a long leader) I am having sockeye for dinner tonight – one of the drift fishers took pity on me and gave me a fish. He said he had no luck morning and some other fellow offered him a pair – so he took them. Then about one o’clock he started hooking fish – he landed 4 and then went home. Everyone I met on the trail in had fish – some to 12 lbs. The drift fisherman were all very free with advice and help and let us few fly boys right in to the line. Another guy even gave me lots of advice and a free corky. don’t stay on one bar if the fishing is slow – move on. Sockeye are school fish and move in huge groups of hundreds or even thousands. Some bars may be hot when others are slow. Ask the drift guys how far out the fish are. Next time I’m taking a shooting head and a spool of mono. – either that or I’m buying a drift rod! Ralph H
Any input? I’m looking to make a decision between a Redington 9′ 8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build. So far Redington is in the lead because of the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty.
The st. Croix Legend is a great deal. BTW it also has a lifetime unconditional warrenty.
Any input? I’m looking to make a decision between a Redington 9′ 8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build. So far Redington is in the lead because of the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty. — _ Dan Siderius | / _` / _` | “ | Check out My Homepage at: | __,___,_|_,,_| http://wybbs.wynalda.com/~dans |
8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build.
Dear Dan; The St. Croix may be a slightly faster action rod. My experience ends with the 6/7 wts., but the principle may carry over to the higher weights. They are both the same modulous graphite, but the cost of the St. Croix includes a pretty decent rod tube. Flip a coin. Better yet, cast ‘em both. Even better yet, buy a Versitex! Sincerely; Jason Beary
I’ve got a St Croix Legend (5wt, 9ft) All I can say is that it gets the job done. It’s fine, I works, I’ve got no complaints, but I know, in my heart of hearts, that I ain’t driving a Caddy. True, the warrenty is good and the fly tube is great and gbest of all, the price is excellent. I will be upgrading tho, when my big ship comes in Damn, faint praise! S. "The World is full of shipping clerks who read the Harvard Classics." –Bukowski, American writer, poet S. Duda Seattle, WA
Dan, I used to fish with a St. Croix and now I fish with a Redington. I own a Redington 9 ft., 5wt. My St. Croix is a 8.5 ft., 5/6 wt. I like my Redington a lot better. It is a little faster, and the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty has come in handy. I work at Jacklin’s Fly Shop in West Yellowstone and My Redington worked fine out there last summer. Jamie. Any input? I’m looking to make a decision between a Redington 9′ 8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build. So far Redington is in the lead because of the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty. — _ Dan Siderius | / _` / _` | “ | Check out My Homepage at: | __,___,_|_,,_| http://wybbs.wynalda.com/~dans |
– Jamie Farrell Interests: -fly fishing -fly tying -camping -hiking
I NEED INDIVID’S WILLING TO USE THEIR TALENTS TO REFURBISH THE THE LATE 1) THE POOL IS COLLAPSED ON ONE SIDE—–NEED AN ENGIE TYPE WILLING TO SWAP FISHING FOR HIS OPINION. 2) THE CESTE FOR FRESH WATER IS IN NEED OF MAJOR REPAIR. JOIN MAJOR SALTWATER FLYFISHING LEGENDS FOR A WEEKEND OF YOUR CHOICE AND HELP US RE-ESTABLISH THE BANG-BANG CLUB AS THE BEST BONEFISHING DESTINATION IN THE PEACE, CAPT. RAHE 305-293-8088
I NEED INDIVID’S WILLING TO USE THEIR TALENTS TO REFURBISH THE THE LATE 1) THE POOL IS COLLAPSED ON ONE SIDE—–NEED AN ENGIE TYPE WILLING TO SWAP FISHING FOR HIS OPINION. 2) THE CESTE FOR FRESH WATER IS IN NEED OF MAJOR REPAIR. JOIN MAJOR SALTWATER FLYFISHING LEGENDS FOR A WEEKEND OF YOUR CHOICE AND HELP US RE-ESTABLISH THE BANG-BANG CLUB AS THE BEST BONEFISHING DESTINATION IN THE
Hey, "Capt." Rahe, Your previous two posts show you to be an a–hole (not surprising considering the aol address) and furthermore, see that little key labeled "caps lock" over to the left on your keyboard? TURN IT OFF!!! David B.
<snip : I’d like to toss another wrinkle into your condsideration. I use a small : kayak called an Aquatera Caspia. It cost $440, weighs 30lbs, is 10 ft long : and will hold an adult with waders on comfortably. The seat folds and will : also hold a cooler and tackle bags. It floats in 6 " of water and is it : extremly stable. The downside is storing and hauling. This boat is not a <snip They are also on the web at http://www.kayaker.com/ complete with dealer search ability. I’ve never tried a Caspia, but we have fished from our Keowee II at times. P.S. I’m not an employee of Aquaterra, however, i do own 2 of thier boats. (and am very happy with them. — Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page: http://www.ripco.com/~jwn/
What is the best pontoon boat out there? What are some nice features. I’m thinking about buying and would appreciate some input. If you thanx!
I would look at the 75 Hobie Float Cat. Pricey but a fine piece of equipment. Regards. Jack
What is the best pontoon boat out there? What are some nice features. I’m thinking about buying and would appreciate some input. If you
Hi Jason According to the shop owners I talk with the Buck Bronco is the best buy for the money. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)
What is the best pontoon boat out there? What are some nice features. I’m thinking about buying and would appreciate some input. If you thanx!
I’d like to toss another wrinkle into your condsideration. I use a small kayak called an Aquatera Caspia. It cost $440, weighs 30lbs, is 10 ft long and will hold an adult with waders on comfortably. The seat folds and will also hold a cooler and tackle bags. It floats in 6 " of water and is it extremly stable. The downside is storing and hauling. This boat is not a good white water craft as it is too wide. In class 2 plus water it would be a bitch. Best of all its a real boat and is darn near impossible to sink. You can use it on rivers, streams, ponds, lakes and creeks. I love this boat and it is about half the price of a pontoon boat. With the money you save in buying the boat you can buy a very nice Yakima car rack for $125. There is also a two person Kiwi model. It has a 5 year warranty and is made of recycled poly material. Fantastic fishin’ boat! If you like a can get the snail mail address fro you and maybe they have a dealer in your area. Company’s HQ is in North Carolina. A good paddling and Canoe store stocks these and will let you try it out. A guide from Arkansas clued me in on this. Bags sink, get holes in them and imagine shooting a low-head dam with a rowing frame…No thanks, I’d like to see 80 some day.Mike
Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?
For one, the no-see-um netting doesn’t! * Todd Merriman – Software Toolz, Inc. +1 706 889 8264 * Maintainer of the * * 8030 Pooles Mill Dr., Ball Ground, GA 30107-9610 * Software * * UUCP: …!emory!slammer!toolz!todd * Entrepreneur’s * Never knock on Death’s door. Ring the bell and run away. Death really hates that.
Serious question; what’s the difference besides price? I’ve never done
One weekend in Colorado we were sleeping in a NF tent went the wind must have started blowing 80 mph. It felt like it was going to lift us up in the tent. The ends of the poles flared where a plug is inserted that fits into a grommet. The tent was 5 years old. I sent the poles back and got new ones FREE. A K-Mart tent would have been shredded. I’ve also broken a zipper on an OLD NF daypack. They fixed the zipper and fixed up some fraying edges for FREE. We stuck a new NF sleeping bag in the dryer when the heat switch didn’t work on the "NO HEAT" position. It melted a 4"x6" hole in the bag. NF repaired it and added down for $20. And like other people said they don’t leak. I use gear hard and will only buy from NF and similar companies. Mort
I am testing my posting capabilities.
Serious question; what’s the difference besides price? I’ve never done One weekend in Colorado we were sleeping in a NF tent went the wind must have started blowing 80 mph. It felt like it was going to lift us up in the tent. The ends of the poles flared where a plug is inserted that fits into a grommet.
I spent a week on the outer banks ( North Carolina ) with a ‘kmart’ type dome tent. One night a storm hit with winds in the 40-60 mph range. All night long I heard car doors slamming and vehicles leaving, the tent flexed and got a little water in it but withstood the storm. In the morning there were 3 other campers left in the campground ( about 30 people left during the night ). However years later while airing the tent in my backyard one corner of the fly came loose ( the elastic cord was shot by then ) and my dog ( a puppy then ) proceded to destroy the tent. bob
One night a storm hit with winds in the 40-60 mph range. All night long I heard car doors slamming and vehicles leaving, the tent flexed and got a little water in it but withstood the storm. In the morning there were 3 other campers left in the campground ( about 30 people left during the night ).
It was probably the people, not their tents, that broke down. — -Wayne Trzyna
Serious question; what’s the difference besides price? I’ve never done serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly cold places. On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. lesson one: You get what you pay for. The main reason a NF tent cost more is the quality of the materials used. The poles are 7075 aircraft alluminium not cheap fiberglass that will snap on you. The biggest part of the cost is the poles. Survival factor: If my life is on the line in a blizzard at 12,000 feet for four days I dont think I want to trust a $40.00 tent, if it fails you die. If you don’t venture into these parts then a K-Mart tent is fine. One other reason is that The North Face will stand by it’s products for life. Even if you muck it up yourself they will fix it for a small charge. One tent failure in dangerous weather will teach you this lesson, trust me, I’ve been there…. Certified Gearhead: Tim
Serious question; what’s the difference besides price? I’ve never done serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly cold places. On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on the rainfly. — -ed falk, sun microsystems "Towards the end, the smell of their air began to change"
Serious question; what’s the difference besides price? Well, I owned a $40 tent from a large department store not unlike K-mart, and now own a $150 tent from a chain not unlike North Face. The big differents is rain. The 40 buck tent leaked even with the rainfly. So far not one drop has ever gotten into the $150 tent.
I have a dome tent that I bought on sale from JC Penny for $35. It’s rain fly does cover the whole tent. I’ve seam-sealed it and it is reasonably water proof from above. The floor isn’t — I learned the hard way about that. I put a tarp down under the tent that was bigger than the tent and it channeled water under the tent that saoked through and into my sleeping bag. But I’ve been in nasty storms and it’s held out well. My wife has made a winter-season fly with a vestibule for the tent, altho’ it wouldn’t hold up with a lot of snow on it. Is it as good as a North Face? Of course not. But it works for me, holds my wife, myself, our dog and our boots and not much else. And it fit our budget. — Are you thinking of telephones and managers and where you got to be at noon?
Here is the history of a K-mart tent, to illustrate its strengths and weaknesses: It was made in Tiawan. $50 in the early 70’s. Made of a single layer of coated nylon (no rain fly). A "wall tent" design; think of an old-fashioned pup tent with vertical sides underneath. A big tent, comfortable for three. Advantages: I could afford it. Lots of room. Only four pounds! Disadvantages: it took fourteen stakes and eight guy lines to set the damn thing up. A pain at best, and sometimes it was impossible to find a large and soft enough site for it. Surprisingly, neither leakage nor condensation were a problem. I used this thing on many hard-core wilderness trips over many years. Was never so foolish as to use it above timberline or in winter, of course. Finally – -One year, way back in the Wind Rivers, a heavy windstorm came up and tore out the grommet supporting one pole. Spent a wild couple of hours outside holding the thing up while a companion sewed it back together with fishing leader. -Next year, camped in the Snake River Plain on the way to the Cariboos. A _really_ _heavy_ rain came up, and the tent leaked and finally collapsed in the middle of the night. Spent the night in the truck, and the next day in Idaho Falls drying our gear and shopping for a big tarp to use as a rain fly; the Cariboos are rain forest! A big tarp rigged over the tent worked great on what became the rainiest trip I’ve ever taken, but made pitching camp a big job. And wouldn’t have worked in a heavy wind. – Two years after that, camped in a heavy rain near Stowe, Vermont. Packed the tent wet and didn’t get around to drying it for a week. It turned out that the zippers, stake loops, etc. were cotton, and they all fell apart. I sadly trashed it and sewed up a Frostline Kodiak. _That_ is the difference between North Face and K-Mart. (BTW I now use a North Face Westwind. Damn good tent.) Chuck Smythe
| Serious question; what’s the difference besides price? I’ve never done | serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly | cold places. On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning | when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my | $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. | | Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on | the rainfly. | | — | -ed falk, sun microsystems | "Towards the end, the smell of their air began to change" (1) Weight, (2) Durability, (3) Service. The $40 K-Mart tent is going to be heavier, and the seams may not be sewn as solidly. There may be more seams than optimal (i.e. the tent may be optimized for ease of production, which may not necessarily be optimal for rough conditions). Finally, if something ever goes wrong with a North Face, Sierra Designs, Walrus, (or whatever) tent, you just bring it back to the store. They’ll send it back to the manufacturer to fix it. Doesn’t matter how old the tent is (as long as it doesn’t look like a bear chewed it). (Actually, this last is from hearsay. I’ve only experienced their customer service in regards to a backpack; I’ve heard about their customer service with respect to sleeping bags, and I’m extrapolating to tents). As for the sleeping bag: Frankly, you must be a warm sleeper. My $30 Coleman rectangular bag is *barely* adequate as a comforter. It has at most 1.5" of loft; it’s heavy; it won’t squoosh down into a small package; it’s not particularly windproof or water resistant (though the fill fiber is synthetic). (Its weight is maybe 7 or 8 lbs, though that’s a guess. My mummy bag weighs under 3 lbs, has 6" of loft, and is *highly* wind and water resistant. Of course, I do feel like a sardine when I sleep in my mummy bag). — Hy
lesson one: You get what you pay for. The main reason a NF tent cost more is the quality of the materials used. The poles are 7075 aircraft alluminium not cheap fiberglass that will snap on you. The biggest part of the cost is the poles. Survival factor: If my life is on the line in a blizzard at 12,000 feet for four days I dont think I want to trust a $40.00 tent, if it fails you die. If you don’t venture into these parts then a K-Mart tent is fine. One tent failure in dangerous weather will teach you this lesson, trust me, I’ve been there….
I agree completely. The main difference between NF (or any other quality manufacturer) is the quality of the materials and the quality of the work. Good gear lasts forever (practically) if you take care of it. Cheap gear always breaks when you least want it to. Cheap tents leak more, poles break easier, grommets pull out, seam stitching tears out, etc… When I used to be a full-time guide, I saw more trips ruined by clients bringing cheap gear and having it break down. I understand that $$$ is always a consideration but I believe that you should always buy the best gear you can afford. Even a cheap tent by a good brand is better than going to Kmart, or whereever. I’d recommend renting good gear instead of buying the cheap stuff. Even if your’re not at 12,000 ft in a blizzard, the goal is to have FUN, which is impossible if you gear fails. RIPS (Raster Image Processing Systems) uunet!solbourne.com!rips!rob 4665 Nautilus Court South << KERNAL: Panic, core dumped Boulder, CO 80301 Darkstar crashes, pouring its light (303) 530-2910 into ashes, reason tatters, …
Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?
The other suggestions and answers cover the subject pretty well, so I will only add this: The cheap tent can be upgraded, providing it handles the basics as it is. Work it over with the best seam sealer you can get. Replace those funky heavy fiberglass poles with aluminum poles cut to the proper size. I would only use it for summer camping and weekend fair-weather backpacking. I did the above upgrading to an old $50 two man dome tent, and it works fine. The poles I got at REI in a bin used for tent returns. The tent is much liter now, and easy to backpack on those overnighters. For longer trips I use my North Face Tadpole NHP, which I am very pleased with. One reason to add to the other reasons to go with a more expensive (= durable) tent, is the weight. The Tadpole is 4 pounds, and packs down to a very small size, not to mention a breeze to put up, something to be thankful in a sudden rain shower or snow shower, I know. Between the 2 to 3 pounds the down bag saves me, and the three pounds the tent saves me, I have 5 pounds less to carry: pick up a 5 pound weight, and you will see it is nothing to sneeze at. Add that to the other areas you can trim weight, and it begins to add up. Unfortunately, there is a correlation between quality durable lightweight equipment and its cost… | "Bully! Bully!" – T. Roosevelt with John Muir at Glacier Point | | "The mountains are calling me, and I must go." John Muir | |"Man has got astray out of his orbit, or away from the ends for which | | he was created." John Muir. |
"What’s the difference between a North Face tent and a K-Mart ten..besides price?"
Well, I’ve got a Eureka Timberline (4-person), a $15 K-Mart 2 man and a Sierra Designs Flash Cliplight. I can’t talk about North Face per se, but I can give some general comparisons. The real cheap tents have a single non-breathing roof. Unless you have very dry weather, you get condensation, even with the "window" open. There is no covered overhang, so when it rains, you have to "close it up" and you get more condensation. The fabric is lightweight and not "ripstop". That means if a tear starts it is more likely to continue than in a better made tent. Also, the seems are not done as well and are not as strong. For a single overnight in a reasonable situation, its probably okay. But I wouldn’t want to have to depend on it for my life in a week long trip. OTOH, the cheap tents are often lightweight. That’s nice for carrying. And you don’t have a big investment so you don’t have to worry about protecting it (I ususally save more weight by not using a ground cloth, which I do use with my better tents.) IMO, the cheap tents are not too bad for simple trips in mild conditions. But I wouldn’t depend on one for a week long trip. Ken
Serious question; what’s the difference besides price? I’ve never done serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly cold places. On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on the rainfly.
Well, I owned a $40 tent from a large department store not unlike K-mart, and now own a $150 tent from a chain not unlike North Face. The big differents is rain. The 40 buck tent leaked even with the rainfly. So far not one drop has ever gotten into the $150 tent. But, the experience with the $40 really helped me in figuring out what makes a good rain proof tent. And I really learn the value of seam sealers. My $40 tent I didn’t use any seam sealer. The $150 tent I used 2 bottles. Would the $40 tent have leaked as much if I’d sealed it? Probably. The rain fly on the $40 didn’t cover the tent completely. So, as seen from above, parts of the tent were exposed. I made sure the rain fly on the $150 tent completely covered the tent (actual a few places stick out). Also, the seams that joined the floor and walls at ground level on the $40 tent. On the $150 tent, the floor sort of extents up and becomes the wall for 6 inches, so the wall/floor seam is 6 inches high and under the rain fly. HOMEBREW NAKED! UUCP: …!ames!watson