Hi folks, Just wondered if someone can comment on the choice of an outboard engine vs. an I/O on a 23-25′ boat, to be used in the coastal waters of west central Florida. Combination of use will be both bay & off-shore fishing, off-shore diving, and short-medium range cruising with at least two couples. I’m a long-time fan of Mercruiser I/Os, having owned several and had very little trouble with them. A few questions about outboards: 1) I’ve heard that outboard technology has come a long way, and the newer engines are quieter and more fuel effecient, correct? 2) Are the outboards more expensive to maintain? 3) Is the net-net performance about the same given the same hosepower on an outboard and I/O? 4 Is there a clear advantage with any particular brand of outboard nowadays? 5) Should we look for any specific year models, i.e. 1997 or newer for example? All thoughts appreciated. Thanks. Patrick
Just wondered if someone can comment on the choice of an outboard engine vs. an I/O on a 23-25′ boat, to be used in the coastal waters of west central Florida. A few questions about outboards: 1) I’ve heard that outboard technology has come a long way, and the newer engines are quieter and more fuel effecient, correct?
That is correct, especially with the 4 stroke motors. 2) Are the outboards more expensive to maintain?
Probably even or cheaper. 3) Is the net-net performance about the same given the same hosepower on an outboard and I/O?
Net is higher since you have a higher power to weight ratio. 4 Is there a clear advantage with any particular brand of outboard nowadays?
I don’t see any clear advantages, all the manufacturers have their thing that only they do. Personnally my best experiences for reliability have been with Yamaha and performance wih Mercury, thou Honda has some interesting cam technology and Suzuki has the best Warrantee. Never been an OMC fan myself but that doesn’t really mean much. 5) Should we look for any specific year models, i.e. 1997 or newer for example?
Can’t help you there, but I’m sure there will be someone to tell you what not to buy. http://hometown.aol.com/hlaviation/
Hi Patrick, With a boat that size I guess that the outboard choices would be the new Yamaha and Honda 200-225hp 4 strokes? In a Mercruiser they use mostly GM V8s now for 200hp+? I know that fisherman like the outboards because there is more room in the rear of the boat for fishing? The ultimate power is a diesel in a boat that size, but it is $$$$. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi folks, Just wondered if someone can comment on the choice of an outboard engine vs. an I/O on a 23-25′ boat, to be used in the coastal waters of west central Florida. Combination of use will be both bay & off-shore fishing, off-shore diving, and short-medium range cruising with at least two couples. I’m a long-time fan of Mercruiser I/Os, having owned several and had very little trouble with them. A few questions about outboards: 1) I’ve heard that outboard technology has come a long way, and the newer engines are quieter and more fuel effecient, correct? 2) Are the outboards more expensive to maintain? 3) Is the net-net performance about the same given the same hosepower on an outboard and I/O? 4 Is there a clear advantage with any particular brand of outboard nowadays? 5) Should we look for any specific year models, i.e. 1997 or newer for example? All thoughts appreciated. Thanks. Patrick
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Those that wanted to should have. You all missed a great one. Suckers! I’ll let Kevin give the details. I had to get my digs in after driving more than 3,000 miles in the last two weeks just for a little fly fishing. Joel Axelrad **DFD** I wanted to, but wound up at my boss’s lake home. Dang. Hot water, flush toilets, sandy beach, pontoon boat. Now if only I could have done both…
Did you catch any fish? Wolfgang
rbc: vixen wrote… I wanted to, but wound up at my boss’s lake home. Dang. Hot water, flush toilets, sandy beach, pontoon boat. Now if only I could have done both…
We missed you cyli. 6, 7, 8, lb. pike on the fly and plenty of them. We missed you all. Make this clave the next time it comes up! Joel Axelrad **DFD**
Reports?
I’ll post one later or more likely tomorrow. Pictures?
My slides and CD come back on Thursday, I’ll post to ABPF then. Willi
Fix underscore in address to reply
Did you catch any fish? No, but I saw a nice imported striped bass. It’s been so cold that I think they’re just getting ready to spawn up there in NW Wisconsin. There were no fish in evidence on Saturday, Sunday there were some rises out in the center of the lake and Monday we suddenly saw the same amount of fish I’d seen there on my trip last summer. All the rivers were running high and lovely. Each time I took a bridge over the Namekagon I was wishing for a raft and a bunch of time to go down it again.
had a clavemistress. I did do some casting practice from the dock, but only with a spinning rod, as the kids were in the water and up on the dock and on the beach (only two of them, but two kids and water makes a herd) and I was darned if I’d do anything with a back cast involved.
Get a bunch of ROFFians up there for a long weekend and you will get enough free casting instruction to have you threading a weighted woolly bugger effortlessly and successfully through an entire tribe of high speed young’ns…..well, MOSTLY successfully. 
Wolfgang who ain’t never fished that neighborhood.
rbc: vixen wrote… I wanted to, but wound up at my boss’s lake home. Dang. Hot water, flush toilets, sandy beach, pontoon boat. Now if only I could have done both… We missed you cyli. 6, 7, 8, lb. pike on the fly and plenty of them. We missed you all. Make this clave the next time it comes up!
Reports? Pictures? Willi
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Those that wanted to should have. You all missed a great one. Suckers! I’ll let Kevin give the details. I had to get my digs in after driving more than 3,000 miles in the last two weeks just for a little fly fishing. Joel Axelrad **DFD** I wanted to, but wound up at my boss’s lake home. Dang. Hot water, flush toilets, sandy beach, pontoon boat. Now if only I could have done both… Did you catch any fish? Wolfgang
No, but I saw a nice imported striped bass. It’s been so cold that I think they’re just getting ready to spawn up there in NW Wisconsin. There were no fish in evidence on Saturday, Sunday there were some rises out in the center of the lake and Monday we suddenly saw the same amount of fish I’d seen there on my trip last summer. All the rivers were running high and lovely. Each time I took a bridge over the Namekagon I was wishing for a raft and a bunch of time to go down it again. I did do some casting practice from the dock, but only with a spinning rod, as the kids were in the water and up on the dock and on the beach (only two of them, but two kids and water makes a herd) and I was darned if I’d do anything with a back cast involved. — rbc: vixen Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli
Those that wanted to should have. You all missed a great one. Suckers! I’ll let Kevin give the details. I had to get my digs in after driving more than 3,000 miles in the last two weeks just for a little fly fishing. Joel Axelrad **DFD**
Those that wanted to should have. You all missed a great one. Suckers! I’ll let Kevin give the details. I had to get my digs in after driving more than 3,000 miles in the last two weeks just for a little fly fishing. Joel Axelrad **DFD**
I wanted to, but wound up at my boss’s lake home. Dang. Hot water, flush toilets, sandy beach, pontoon boat. Now if only I could have done both… — rbc: vixen Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli
Mike The standard I use is how do my flies compare to commercially tired ones in trout getting . They do just as well . Lou – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve never seen any fly patterns that "cheat" like that but the trout, who are the ultimate judges of such things, don’t seen to mind my shortcuts and take my flies. Am I breaking some unwritten law? I’m not a tier, myself, but it seems to me that it doesn’t matter. You tie flies, and the trout eat them. If there’s a problem, I fail to see it. — "Armchair warriors often fail, and we’ve been poisoned by these fairy tales" -Don Henley
The standard I use is how do my flies compare to commercially tired ones in trout getting . They do just as well .
Lord have mercy, Lou! If that was my standard, I’d be too damn depressed to carry on. I compare to the bare hook. My flies almost always do better than a bare hook. JR
John LOL Lou
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The standard I use is how do my flies compare to commercially tired ones in trout getting . They do just as well . Lord have mercy, Lou! If that was my standard, I’d be too damn depressed to carry on. I compare to the bare hook. My flies almost always do better than a bare hook. JR
The standard I use is how do my flies compare to commercially tired ones in trout getting . They do just as well .
Commercial flies are as a general rule of poor quality, and inferior effectiveness. There are doubtless considerable numbers of positive examples to the contrary, but I have not seen many of them. If your flies work, which they obviously do, then they are excellent. You might well be able to improve on them if you give the matter some thought, but comparing them to commercial flies, or various "standards" is not likely to be of much help in this endeavour, apart from using them as negative examples, or for your general edification. TL MC
Mike Here to learn and maybe share. I’m new to fly tying and realize that I have allot to learn. For now I’m just finding my way… Lou
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The standard I use is how do my flies compare to commercially tired ones in trout getting . They do just as well . Commercial flies are as a general rule of poor quality, and inferior effectiveness. There are doubtless considerable numbers of positive examples to the contrary, but I have not seen many of them. If your flies work, which they obviously do, then they are excellent. You might well be able to improve on them if you give the matter some thought, but comparing them to commercial flies, or various "standards" is not likely to be of much help in this endeavour, apart from using them as negative examples, or for your general edification. TL MC
Mike Here to learn and maybe share. I’m new to fly tying and realize that I have allot to learn. For now I’m just finding my way… Lou
Exactly why we are all here, and of course to enjoy ourselves. If you have questions, ask away. Somebody on here will invariably know the answer, or even several. Just as long as you are not going to Antarctica fishing for killer whales, and need info on the best methods and flies! TL MC
Mike Hiya Most of my fishing is close to home. I’m up on the Keeweenaw Peninsula and mostly fly fish small rivers and for trout. Lou
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike Here to learn and maybe share. I’m new to fly tying and realize that I have allot to learn. For now I’m just finding my way… Lou Exactly why we are all here, and of course to enjoy ourselves. If you have questions, ask away. Somebody on here will invariably know the answer, or even several. Just as long as you are not going to Antarctica fishing for killer whales, and need info on the best methods and flies! TL MC
Mike Hiya Most of my fishing is close to home. I’m up on the Keeweenaw Peninsula and mostly fly fish small rivers and for trout. Lou
I know nothing at all about it, I have never heard the name, and I would not have known it even existed but for your post. Rest assured, somebody here will either know it, or know of it, and will be able and willing to assist if necessary. As a "newbie", you may, along with some others, be rather confused at the goings-on on here at present. Just ignore them, all things must pass. It will not affect your participation in th
my week-long sabbatical in the blue ridge ends today, but i leave with more experience in the streams i love and having developed a better friendship with Walt Winter of ezflyfish.com..
Appreciate the reports, Jeff. I think Tom Brown was up that way this weekend as well. Fond memories of the Great North State……. Mark Faulkner
Appreciate the reports, Jeff. I think Tom Brown was up that way this weekend as well. Fond memories of the Great North State……. Mark Faulkner
I wanted to go this weekend, but couldn’t get a dog sitter. Probably just as well, there would have been more witnesses. NEXT weekend – now that’s a different story. I’m heading over on Friday and, if I make it back home, I’ll post an unambiguous, unfettered, true report of the ensuing activities (depending on circumstances and to the extent that my attorney allows). Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC HEATHEN, n. A benighted creature who has the folly to worship something that he can see and feel. – Ambrose Bierce: The Devil’s Dictionary
my week-long sabbatical in the blue ridge ends today, but i leave with more experience in the streams i love and having developed a better friendship with Walt Winter of ezflyfish.com…walt martyred himself to fishing with me during these last 3 days, braving the wrath of his lovely spouse Marie and delaying the demands of his business until the late evening hours. The first 3 days, i fished my usual spots. one stream i consider "my" stream because of its closeness to my cabin, because i fish it every time i’m in the area hoping to get to know its entire length eventually, and because it always yields me a fish or two or several. it holds only wild browns and is overlooked by many of the fishing population (spinning and fly) because of its location and lower elevation (1400 feet). still, it has all of the characteristics of streams i love to hike and fish…wildlife (turkey, deer, grouse, snakes)can be seen on occasions, wildflowers blooming from spring through late fall, and a nice combination of deep pools, pocket water, and riffles with some small waterfalls and large boulders or rock formations. there is a small trail for about 4 miles running beside the stream, which allows access to various points and gives an ability to avoid other fishermen/women or to share a nice day with a group of friends by staggering entries. the browns in the stream are as beautiful, "spooky", and feisty as any i’ve caught in any of the wild trout waters of the state. On this trip, i deceived several nice brownies with a dave’s hopper, parachute adams, hare’s ear, and prince nymph. the largest was 10 1/2 inches…above average for me in this stream…with the others in the 6 – 9 inch range, which is the size of fish generally caught in non-hatchery waters. on one trip, i caught an 8 inch brown out of the tail of a deep pool, and a big brown of at least 15-18 inches chased after it as i was bringing it in, so there are larger fish waiting to be taken with skillful and patient persistence…that big brown provides an enduring optimism and goal for future pursuits on "my" stream… jeff
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I went on an offshore charter in Key West in September, I learned about "brutally hot." I thought it was bad in NC! You guys have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer. Uh, not to intrude, but I can speak with absolute authority that the great state of Florida does *not* have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer. I am happy to report that there is robust competition for miserable summer heat. Ours is just the dry variety. Not unlike the kind you would roast a turkey in. Russ Ha. It gets so hot in Florida that you just have to pop your fish in a bucket with potatoes and carrots and onions, along with some water, and in three hours…you have chowda! — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Do not judge a book by its movie! Three hours? You’re outa your league here, Harry. That same bucket sitting on my foredeck in July would give the microwave a run for it’s money. We’re talkin’ Solar Hell of the first order. Russ
Ahh. But the chowda bucket is sitting in the ice bucket… — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Do these white hairs mean I’m turning blond?!?
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I went on an offshore charter in Key West in September, I learned about "brutally hot." I thought it was bad in NC! You guys have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer. Uh, not to intrude, but I can speak with absolute authority that the great state of Florida does *not* have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer. I am happy to report that there is robust competition for miserable summer heat. Ours is just the dry variety. Not unlike the kind you would roast a turkey in. Russ Ha. It gets so hot in Florida that you just have to pop your fish in a bucket with potatoes and carrots and onions, along with some water, and in three hours…you have chowda! — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Do not judge a book by its movie! Three hours? You’re outa your league here, Harry. That same bucket sitting on my foredeck in July would give the microwave a run for it’s money. We’re talkin’ Solar Hell of the first order. Russ Ahh. But the chowda bucket is sitting in the ice bucket… —
Ice? You can keep ice in the summer? Ice in the summer doesn’t melt here. As it turns to liquid before your very eyes, what you are in fact witnessing are uncontrollable tears from the pain. Russ
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I went on an offshore charter in Key West in September, I learned about "brutally hot." I thought it was bad in NC! You guys have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer. Uh, not to intrude, but I can speak with absolute authority that the great state of Florida does *not* have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer. I am happy to report that there is robust competition for miserable summer heat. Ours is just the dry variety. Not unlike the kind you would roast a turkey in. Russ
You are in AZ, right? I guess I shouldn’t give FL the sole monopoly. I should say they have the monopoly east of the Miss. I’ve been to San Antonio and Austin in July and August, and that was quite miserable as well. I have also been to Sacremento and Sonoma in July. It wasn’t very comfortable there, either. Sorry to not give credit where it is due. I guess that’s why Death Valley is out there. Hot as Hades. Our summer weather is the sort that your glasses fog up as you step out of your air conditioned house or car. The humidity causes you to sweat profusely, yet you do not cool off. Your body’s cooling mechanism doesn’t work because you cannot evaporate any sweat. When I went to California, it was much hotter, and I no doubt sweated, but I didn’t notice it as much because the sweat would actually evaporate. I guess the moral is at the end of the day, it doesn’t much matter if you are in CA or NC, you had better drink lots of fluids in the hot months. Heatstroke doesn’t have a monopoly on geography. Jeff Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers. Please respond in Usenet.
Small word of warning. I got the bimini with mine and found that certain points were held with screws. They vibrated loose during the first trailer ride and I almost lost the bimini (which would really have sucked for the tailgater behind me <g).
<snip And then again, how ’bout a quick-release mechanism triggered from the driver’s seat for those moments when you just can’t take the idiot behind you any more?
Not the rails. It was the screws that hold the joints of the bimini frame together. These are the joints where the frame folds. I guess they thought it would be too difficult to get bolt tightness light enough to allow the joints to fold, while keeping the nut tight enough to not come off. Using a regular nut and lock washer, followed by the nylok, allows you to set the inner nut loose enough to allow folding, while tightening the nylok against the inner nut holds it exactly in place. – Bud — Bud Feuless & Miki Magara-Feuless
I was crossing the Galveston Causeway and coming onto I-45 with Ken and Barbie in a red Mustang tailgating me badly. I am still not sure if it was Divine or Satanic intervention that made a wooden paddle I had accidentally forgotten in the cockpit of my boat fly out and head right for his windshield. It just missed him, but scared the crap out of both of us. I’m very careful about no loose items when trailering now. Maybe he also tailgates a bit less… – Bud — Bud Feuless & Miki Magara-Feuless
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeff; Small word of warning. I got the bimini with mine and found that certain points were held with screws. They vibrated loose during the first trailer ride and I almost lost the bimini (which would really have sucked for the tailgater behind me <g). I replaced them with a bolt with a lock washer, bolt, and nylock cap nut and they’ve never come loose since (5 years). Regards, Bud — Bud Feuless & Miki Magara-Feuless
Thanks, Bud. My dealer is installing the bimini. I’ll be sure to check how they mount the rails. Jeff Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers. Please respond in Usenet.
Jeff; Small word of warning. I got the bimini with mine and found that certain points were held with screws. They vibrated loose during the first trailer ride and I almost lost the bimini (which would really have sucked for the tailgater behind me <g). I replaced them with a bolt with a lock washer, bolt, and nylock cap nut and they’ve never come loose since (5 years). Regards, Bud — Bud Feuless & Miki Magara-Feuless
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You are in AZ, right? I guess I shouldn’t give FL the sole monopoly. I should say they have the monopoly east of the Miss. I’ve been to San Antonio and Austin in July and August, and that was quite miserable as well. I have also been to Sacremento and Sonoma in July. It wasn’t very comfortable there, either. Sorry to not give credit where it is due. I guess that’s why Death Valley is out there. Hot as Hades. Our summer weather is the sort that your glasses fog up as you step out of your air conditioned house or car. The humidity causes you to sweat profusely, yet you do not cool off. Your body’s cooling mechanism doesn’t work because you cannot evaporate any sweat. When I went to California, it was much hotter, and I no doubt sweated, but I didn’t notice it as much because the sweat would actually evaporate. I guess the moral is at the end of the day, it doesn’t much matter if you are in CA or NC, you had better drink lots of fluids in the hot months. Heatstroke doesn’t have a monopoly on geography.
Yeah, AZ is correct. Been here most of my life. The Fall, Winter, and Spring are beautiful, but you pay for them with Summer. Summers never used to bother me when I was younger, but they get harder to deal with every year. I do think the dry heat is more tolerable than the wet stuff, but it’s still hot. Congratulations on your new boat. I bet you can’t wait to get it wet. Russ
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I went on an offshore charter in Key West in September, I learned about "brutally hot." I thought it was bad in NC! You guys have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer. Uh, not to intrude, but I can speak with absolute authority that the great state of Florida does *not* have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer. I am happy to report that there is robust competition for miserable summer heat. Ours is just the dry variety. Not unlike the kind you would roast a turkey in. Russ Ha. It gets so hot in Florida that you just have to pop your fish in a bucket with potatoes and carrots and onions, along with some water, and in three hours…you have chowda! — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Do not judge a book by its movie!
Three hours? You’re outa your league here, Harry. That same bucket sitting on my foredeck in July would give the microwave a run for it’s money. We’re talkin’ Solar Hell of the first order. Russ
When I went on an offshore charter in Key West in September, I learned about "brutally hot." I thought it was bad in NC! You guys have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer. Uh, not to intrude, but I can speak with absolute authority that the great state of Florida does *not* have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer. I am happy to report that there is robust competition for miserable summer heat. Ours is just the dry variety. Not unlike the kind you would roast a turkey in. Russ
Ha. It gets so hot in Florida that you just have to pop your fish in a bucket with potatoes and carrots and onions, along with some water, and in three hours…you have chowda! — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Do not judge a book by its movie!
When I went on an offshore charter in Key West in September, I learned about "brutally hot." I thought it was bad in NC! You guys have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer.
Uh, not to intrude, but I can speak with absolute authority that the great state of Florida does *not* have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer. I am happy to report that there is robust competition for miserable summer heat. Ours is just the dry variety. Not unlike the kind you would roast a turkey in. Russ
I saw your model Scout yesterday at a dealer’s I was visiting. It certainly fulfilled my expectation as a really good boat, sturdily built, with good finish work and lots of nice features. What kind of performance do you anticipate from the 150? Also, consider a stainless steel framed bimini rather than a tee-top. I’ll be glad to discuss this with you. — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Take a BIG bite out of crime….arrest the Republican Congress.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I did not get the t-top. It was expensive, and there may be areas that I will fish that I would not want a t-top. I went with the bimini, mounted on a track. At the boat shows here in Raleigh, there were about four different top manufacturer’s, so I can always add an aftermarket t-top if I find I use the boat mostly offshore. The top may also restrict access under some bridges. Casting with a couple guys in the boat may also get a little "hairy" (no pun intended) with the t-top. As always, Harry, I am interested in hearing your reasons for the boat sans t-top. An obvious drawback to the bimini vs. t-top is that 360 degree fishability becomes more difficult with the top up. I think it depends on where you fish and how. Florida gets brutally hot in the summer and, if you are fishing, ducking under a bimini provides great relief. The shaded area provided by a tee-top is much much smaller, so that only a couple of fishermen can find relief. If you trailer a lot, you’ll find that the tee-top creates a lot of drag at highway speeds. Tee-tops have a lot of advantages, too, of course. Up on the Chesapeake, most of the fishing seems to be trolling, chum and some bottom, all done from the back of the boat without interference from a bimini. If I want to fly fish and the bimini is down, I can cast in any direction without snagging the uprights of a tee-top. When I went on an offshore charter in Key West in September, I learned about "brutally hot." I thought it was bad in NC! You guys have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer. It would love to find some type of top that is a cross between a t-top and a bimini. A top that allows 360* fishability, yet is stowable when you need to take it out. I imagine some sort of t-top with bolted flange connections that you can unbolt when you don’t want the top on. Ever seen anything like that? Also curious, Harry. Are you looking at buying a Scout? Jeff Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers. Please respond in Usenet.
No. I’m mildly interested in another brand of boat, but the dealer that handles that one also handles Scout and Grady-White. If I were in the market for another center console, I’d give Scout real serious consideration. Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Budget: A method for going broke methodically.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I did not get the t-top. It was expensive, and there may be areas that I will fish that I would not want a t-top. I went with the bimini, mounted on a track. At the boat shows here in Raleigh, there were about four different top manufacturer’s, so I can always add an aftermarket t-top if I find I use the boat mostly offshore. The top may also restrict access under some bridges. Casting with a couple guys in the boat may also get a little "hairy" (no pun intended) with the t-top. As always, Harry, I am interested in hearing your reasons for the boat sans t-top. An obvious drawback to the bimini vs. t-top is that 360 degree fishability becomes more difficult with the top up. I think it depends on where you fish and how. Florida gets brutally hot in the summer and, if you are fishing, ducking under a bimini provides great relief. The shaded area provided by a tee-top is much much smaller, so that only a couple of fishermen can find relief. If you trailer a lot, you’ll find that the tee-top creates a lot of drag at highway speeds. Tee-tops have a lot of advantages, too, of course. Up on the Chesapeake, most of the fishing seems to be trolling, chum and some bottom, all done from the back of the boat without interference from a bimini. If I want to fly fish and the bimini is down, I can cast in any direction without snagging the uprights of a tee-top.
When I went on an offshore charter in Key West in September, I learned about "brutally hot." I thought it was bad in NC! You guys have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer. It would love to find some type of top that is a cross between a t-top and a bimini. A top that allows 360* fishability, yet is stowable when you need to take it out. I imagine some sort of t-top with bolted flange connections that you can unbolt when you don’t want the top on. Ever seen anything like that? Also curious, Harry. Are you looking at buying a Scout? Jeff Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers. Please respond in Usenet.
I did not get the t-top. It was expensive, and there may be areas that I will fish that I would not want a t-top. I went with the bimini, mounted on a track. At the boat shows here in Raleigh, there were about four different top manufacturer’s, so I can always add an aftermarket t-top if I find I use the boat mostly offshore. The top may also restrict access under some bridges. Casting with a couple guys in the boat may also get a little "hairy" (no pun intended) with the t-top. As always, Harry, I am interested in hearing your reasons for the boat sans t-top. An obvious drawback to the bimini vs. t-top is that 360 degree fishability becomes more difficult with the top up.
I think it depends on where you fish and how. Florida gets brutally hot in the summer and, if you are fishing, ducking under a bimini provides great relief. The shaded area provided by a tee-top is much much smaller, so that only a couple of fishermen can find relief. If you trailer a lot, you’ll find that the tee-top creates a lot of drag at highway speeds. Tee-tops have a lot of advantages, too, of course. Up on the Chesapeake, most of the fishing seems to be trolling, chum and some bottom, all done from the back of the boat without interference from a bimini. If I want to fly fish and the bimini is down, I can cast in any direction without snagging the uprights of a tee-top.
I saw your model Scout yesterday at a dealer’s I was visiting. It certainly fulfilled my expectation as a really good boat, sturdily built, with good finish work and lots of nice features.
Glad you liked it, Harry. I looked at boats for a year and stumbled upon Scout at a boat show. After seeing so many boats, and then getting disgusted with a designer (scratching my head saying, "why in the heck did they put that there?"), the Scout was the answer. Things are in the right places. Not only does it have jump seats in the back, it has grab rails for the people in the seat. That plastic cover for the electronics box? No need to just toss it in the console and get it all scratched up, Scout machined two pieces of plastic with slots that accept the cover. Bilge? You can actually open a small hatch and get your arms down in there to change seacocks, pumps, switches, etc. Oh, they also gel coat the interior of the bilge (AND the compartment below the console). Fuel? No problem. It holds 92 gallons, plenty for a 20′ CC. Electronics? Circuit breakers, not fuses. Switches? Mounted on the underside of the aft edge of the console, out of the weather as much as possible. I could go on. I was, and still am, impressed as hell with the thought and design put into this boat. What kind of performance do you anticipate from the 150?
I tested it with a 150. The boat, on a river, topped at 51 (boat speedo) with two men and 1/4 tank of fuel. Here is how Yamaha rates the boat (test performed and certified by Yamaha application engineers): Weight as tested: 3325 lbs (boat, motor, full fuel) Engine: Yammy, S150TXRW, 150 HP Prop: 13 3/4" X 17", part number 6G5-45978-02-98 Number of people: 2 Seconds to plane: 2.9 Test Conditions: Air temp: 80F Water temp: 74F Elevation: Sea level Wind velocity: 12 MPH Comments: test weight included 40 lb battery, fuel, and 50 lb misc. equipment Performance Data: RPM MPH GPH MPG 1000 7.3 1.1 6.6 2000 10.2 2.7 3.7 3000 24.0 7.5 3.2 4000 33.7 12.3 2.7 5000 41.0 13.4 3.0 5400 46.1 15.7 2.0 Speed data gathered with a Magellan GPS receiver. I am not sure if they tested with a t-top or not. I would guess not. How is that for a manufacturer giving out information? Another impressive aspect of Scout. They respond to emails, usually within two or three days. Not as fast as I would like, but at least they respond. Also, consider a stainless steel framed bimini rather than a tee-top. I’ll be glad to discuss this with you.
I did not get the t-top. It was expensive, and there may be areas that I will fish that I would not want a t-top. I went with the bimini, mounted on a track. At the boat shows here in Raleigh, there were about four different top manufacturer’s, so I can always add an aftermarket t-top if I find I use the boat mostly offshore. The top may also restrict access under some bridges. Casting with a couple guys in the boat may also get a little "hairy" (no pun intended) with the t-top. As always, Harry, I am interested in hearing your reasons for the boat sans t-top. An obvious drawback to the bimini vs. t-top is that 360 degree fishability becomes more difficult with the top up. My list of options include the swim platform, the bow cushion, and bimini top. I decided against the leaning post. After fishing for a season, that may change. The boat comes with a trailerable cover with a three year warranty at no additional charge. With the t-top, you don’t get a full cover, only a motor cover. I went to the dealer with a big box full of GPS, VHF, antenna, two antenna rail mounts (gps ant., and vhf ant.), fishfinder, and RAM mounts. I went with the ram mounts to give a horizontal swivel option in addition to the vertical swivel afforded by the factory mount. The also allows vertical adjustment within the electronics box. They are slick! I also thought that if I want to change from my Garmin 128 GPS to a Lowrance 1600 or equivalent in a few years, I won’t have to drill new holes for the electronics. I have an appointment for 10 am next Saturday to close the deal and hitch up to my new toy. Jeff Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers. Please respond in Usenet.
To me (Richard may/may not agree), it is not as low as you would think
True, I agree, the freeboard is not really that low that I would worry about it. There are boats with more (GradyWhite) but I prefer the lower sides. The boat does have toeboards
Yes, I forgot about those. These features a missing on a lot of boats this size and they are very helpful when things get a rock’n. Richard Daines Ledyard, CT http://www.ctol.net/~rdaines/
Lower freeboard in the aft of the boat has long been considered an important design feature in larger offshore boats, where a swamped cockpit might sink the boat, if the cockpit could hold enough water vs. the reserve flotation in the bow. I don’t think this is as much an issue with a boat like a Scout that has level flotation, but it is still helpful if you have to clear the cockpit of a greenie, to have the engine above the waterline. I take my 162 out regularly to 20-30 miles in 2-4′ seas and further when it is calm. I’ve never taken a drop of spray. I don’t, however, have kids, though, if I did, they would not come offshore with me without lifevests and swimming lessons anyhow. Good luck! – Bud — Bud Feuless & Miki Magara-Feuless
The only thing that bothers me about the looks of the Scout is the apparent low free-board. Does this bother anyone but me or is in my imagination. Is a boat with a low free board less safe in offshore conditions?
Absolutely nothing wrong with the Scout’s freeboard unless you are going to have small children in the boat. Lower sides aft will not be a problem and will certainly aid in boating large, heavy fish. The boat is self bailing so if, by chance, water does make it over the side, it will drain out quickly. I am glad to see this thread. I was considering the Scout along with the Aquasport, Pro-Line and Sport-Craft
These are all good boats, buy the one that best suits your needs. For me it was a Scout. Richard Daines Ledyard, CT http://www.ctol.net/~rdaines/
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The only thing that bothers me about the looks of the Scout is the apparent low free-board. Does this bother anyone but me or is in my imagination. Is a boat with a low free board less safe in offshore conditions? Absolutely nothing wrong with the Scout’s freeboard unless you are going to have small children in the boat. Lower sides aft will not be a problem and will certainly aid in boating large, heavy fish. The boat is self bailing so if, by chance, water does make it over the side, it will drain out quickly. I am glad to see this thread. I was considering the Scout along with the Aquasport, Pro-Line and Sport-Craft These are all good boats, buy the one that best suits your needs. For me it was a Scout. Richard Daines Ledyard, CT http://www.ctol.net/~rdaines/
In my opinion, the freeboard is somewhat decieving on the Scout. There is a downward curve on the top of the gunwale just aft of the seats. To me (Richard may/may not agree), it is not as low as you would think as you look at the boat on a trailer. I would guess the freeboard around the jumpseats is about 24". Take the boat out for a ride where you plan on using it and decide for yourself. It may bother you, and it may not. I would recommend making that decision on the water versus on the dealer’s lot. The boat does have toeboards at the bottom of the rod racks, and that is the area where you would lean over to gaff a big fish or release one. Locking your feet into the toeboards and leaning against the gunwale gives a secure platform for fighting big fish as well. I certainly agree with Richards last statement. For me, it was also the Scout. Jeff Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers. Please respond in Usenet.
Thank you for your time, James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist amateur is right. you’re an idiot plain and simple. you are misinformed on fishery issues. try doing some reading, and not just PETAphile propoganda. good day you twit, chris
Don’t hold back Chris, what do you really think? :-) It’s probably a troll, take it easy, laugh at all the ignorant statements, it’s Friday by joe, time to fish tomorrow. I think I’ll fish with some of them thar computer designed flies…so I too can catch fish like a pro, I’m still chuckling. :-) Later, - Ken — "Time is but the stream I go a-fishin in. I drink at it, but while I drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. It’s thin current slides away, but eternity remains." – H.D. Thoreau
(snipped) <<Maybe we should start thinking about limiting people’s rights to breed? What is this? A rehearsal for Loony Tunes. Dave LaCourse
I promise that, when I see a hungry child working a pool, I’ll move on…
…and by all means, help him with technique, if he is struggling. Shoot, I’ll give him a few flies, although I have no clue where to get those computer made ones. Probably have to check on Gerkhes website for those. Tom Littleton
You have many friends here. Ha, ha. LOL! OK, I can tell that T-Bone isn’t interested in my discussion. That’s fine, if I can change one mind, or even get someone to think about the problem, my post will not be in vain. James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist
by this post, you show yourself to be hopelessly dense. tim walker has honored your positions at the expense of his cyberpopularity for years, you pig headed twit. re-read his post, fool. wayno
I promise that, when I see a hungry child working a pool, I’ll move on to the next one. Unless, of course, it is catch and release in which case I’ll have to report him if he’s eating<g. You and timbo have a real nice day. — Charlie.
Where I fish, it is almost impossible to bring in and unhook a little native brook trout before some dirty-faced, rag-wearing, famine-stricken, third-world youngster sinks a fork into its side. It’s really starting to piss me off. First, I used pepper spray. Now, I’m carrying the Combat Commander. Bob Scott
(snip) I understand some people’s idea of nature is different than mine. I’ve stated mine (at least I hope I have), and am willing to listen to anyone who disputes the effects of flyfishing on the world’s fish population.
no, buster, what you really want is to be "liberal", "different", "confrontational"; and, more than anything else, possesed of a feeling of superiority over the unwashed masses of fishermen. James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist (and still an engineer!)
wayno
I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.
[snip] This post must be a troll. It’s hard to believe that anyone could be so wrong about so many things.
I think the operative word here is AMATEUR! I promise you I could write you a page of anti-fishing nonsense which would make you want to sell your house and send me all your money to save the planet. A single web site, a single appeal, a single slant on any environmental problem is sure to incite some individuals to post messages, send donations, and even in some cases take anti-social behavior (tree spiking, etc.) as a mission. Perhaps this discussion belongs better with Greenpeace, and PETA where a wider audience of people looking for a life will eagerly join in to support. If you’re looking to talk multi-use management, I am not an AMATEUR. Send me your donations today Jim, I will save your personal piece of this planet. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist
<<[snip timster type nanner] not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate?
I promise that, when I see a hungry child working a pool, I’ll move on to the next one. Unless, of course, it is catch and release in which case I’ll have to report him if he’s eating<g. You and timbo have a real nice day. Yeah, I too wondered about that. "Food off a hungry child’s plate?" Dave LaCourse
Jim Andrews writes <massively uniformed drivel snipped James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist
You got that part right, Jim. Amateur to the point of near ignorance, from your writing here. Do you have the slightest clue about fly fishing or conservations efforts of fishermen? I expect this reply to join a veritable flame barrage(especially at this, the cabin-fever time of year). Tom Littleton
I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures. All you have to do is check out websites like the one linked below and you can see the devastating effect flyfishing is having on overall fish population statistics. This is true for fish than aren’t even being caught for legitimate reasons (i.e., food), like the sharks! http://www.livingplanet.org/seachange/fisheries/ I realize that flyfishing is tremendously popular, and in fact its popularity is growing in leaps and bounds. The advent of new and exciting technologies, like computer-designed flies and hooks, have made it possible for the novice to catch fish like the pros of old. Why must this be the case? Why must we sacrifice the pleasant and entirely natural life-cycle of an innocent fish for our own pleasure, not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate? Please, think about what I am saying. This is a terribly important issue. I am happy to discuss this admittedly emotional topic with anyone here, either on these newsgroups or through email. Perhaps we can all learn something. Thank you for your time, James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist
I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures. All you have to do is check out websites like the one linked below and you can see the devastating effect flyfishing is having on overall fish population statistics. This is true for fish than aren’t even being caught for legitimate reasons (i.e., food), like the sharks!
Bingo. http://www.livingplanet.org/seachange/fisheries/ I realize that flyfishing is tremendously popular, and in fact its popularity is growing in leaps and bounds.
Well….once people realize that what you say is true then flyfishing shall return to the subsistence intentions of its roots and our heritage. This yuppie trend is just noise Jim. The advent of new and exciting technologies, like computer-designed flies and hooks, have made it possible for the novice to catch fish like the pros of old.
Yup. Why must this be the case? Why must we sacrifice the pleasant and entirely natural life-cycle of an innocent fish for our own pleasure, not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate?
Damned good questions. Please, think about what I am saying. This is a terribly important issue. I am happy to discuss this admittedly emotional topic with anyone here, either on these newsgroups or through email. Perhaps we can all learn something.
You have many friends here. Thank you for your time,
And for yours. James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist
– TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"
Please, think about what I am saying. This is a terribly important issue. I am happy to discuss this admittedly emotional topic with anyone here, either on these newsgroups or through email. Perhaps we can all learn something.
If you want to discuss this with an OPEN mind in a gentlemanly open and exchange of ideas then email me for this group thread will probably desintigrate into another C&R tirade real quick. If you’re trolling, I humbly interject that you are completely ignoring the relevant facts of evolution, the food chain, giving to much creedence to computer designs in fishing, and loosing sight of what some peoples idea of nature is all about. Wayne *biologist turned accountant but very concerned about nature, regardless* Wayne Knight Geneva IL
you know, just this am as i was reading gg’s post and enjoying my coffee, i thought what we need is a good ole c&k vs c&r debate to liven things up around here. looks like this just may fit the bill. ahhhh, the good ole days. have at it boys. –Wataugan "hopefully, my one and only reply to this thread" Walt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures. All you have to do is check out websites like the one linked below and you can see the devastating effect flyfishing is having on overall fish population statistics. This is true for fish than aren’t even being caught for legitimate reasons (i.e., food), like the sharks! http://www.livingplanet.org/seachange/fisheries/ I realize that flyfishing is tremendously popular, and in fact its popularity is growing in leaps and bounds. The advent of new and exciting technologies, like computer-designed flies and hooks, have made it possible for the novice to catch fish like the pros of old. Why must this be the case? Why must we sacrifice the pleasant and entirely natural life-cycle of an innocent fish for our own pleasure, not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate? Please, think about what I am saying. This is a terribly important issue. I am happy to discuss this admittedly emotional topic with anyone here, either on these newsgroups or through email. Perhaps we can all learn something. Thank you for your time, James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist
– The Blue Ridge Book Gallery P.O. Box 5112 Banner Elk, NC 28604 http://www.mercury.net/~wgwinter to view our ongoing auctions at Ebay, click below… http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=blue…
[snip timster type nanner] not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate?
I promise that, when I see a hungry child working a pool, I’ll move on to the next one. Unless, of course, it is catch and release in which case I’ll have to report him if he’s eating<g. You and timbo have a real nice day. — Charlie…
[deleted] desintigrate into another C&R tirade real quick.
[deleted] You mis-spelled elevate. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"
I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures. All you have to do is check out websites like the one linked below and you can see the devastating effect flyfishing is having on overall fish population statistics. http://www.livingplanet.org/seachange/fisheries/
Did you even read the webpage that you posted? or is this just a troll? The page rightfully places the blame of overfishing on the supertrawlers and sights trouble spots mostly out in the open ocean. The advent of new and exciting technologies, like computer-designed flies and hooks, have made it possible for the novice to catch fish like the pros of old.
# ## ### # # # ##### # # # ### # # ## Okay, that solves the mystery, you are trolling…… "…computer-designed flies…possible…to catch fish like the pros…" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Best laugh I’ve had all day, thanks, - Ken — "Time is but the stream I go a-fishin in. I drink at it, but while I drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. It’s thin current slides away, but eternity remains." – H.D. Thoreau
You have many friends here.
Ha, ha. LOL! OK, I can tell that T-Bone isn’t interested in my discussion. That’s fine, if I can change one mind, or even get someone to think about the problem, my post will not be in vain. James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist
Are you naked right now ? OBROFF: Nude flyfishing is extremely hazardous, please practice it with utmost caution. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"
I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures. All you have to do is check out websites like the one linked below and you can see the devastating effect flyfishing is having on overall fish population statistics. This is true for fish than aren’t even being caught for legitimate reasons (i.e., food), like the sharks! http://www.livingplanet.org/seachange/fisheries/
this website says nothing of flyfishing or even sportfishing for that matter. maybe you should read it. it’s about the worldwide fishing fleets (commercial you idiot) are devestating fish populations worldwide especially species such as tuna. i’d think if you were going to post URL’s they ought to support your wacko beliefs. please show where flyfishing has caused "the devestating effect… on overall fish population statistics." c’mon, i dare you, you PETA twit. you are a liar, plain and simple. I realize that flyfishing is tremendously popular, and in fact its popularity is growing in leaps and bounds. The advent of new and exciting technologies, like computer-designed flies and hooks, have made it possible for the novice to catch fish like the pros of old.
have you tried to flyfish? and how do computer generated hooks make newcomers fish as well as seasoned flyfishing veterans? you again don’t know what the hell you are talking about. Why must this be the case? Why must we sacrifice the pleasant and entirely natural life-cycle of an innocent fish for our own pleasure, not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate?
how does flyfishing take food off a hungry child’s plate? maybe somebodies casting flies in third world countries snagging food off poor childen’s plates. get over it. if we eat a fish we catch, we are in fact leaving more food for your poor starving children campaign. btw, you are probably against medical research using animals, so how dare you try to use children as a weapon against us. your policies result in many dead children dying because researchers cannot cure diseases. fuck you. Please, think about what I am saying. This is a terribly important issue. I am happy to discuss this admittedly emotional topic with anyone here, either on these newsgroups or through email. Perhaps we can all learn something.
maybe you can get a friggin’ brain, you twit. stop basing natural resource management on emotion, and use facts. sportfishermen and hunters provide much more money to save and restore animals, fish, and ecosystems than you or your animal rights wacko buddies. Thank you for your time, James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist
amateur is right. you’re an idiot plain and simple. you are misinformed on fishery issues. try doing some reading, and not just PETAphile propoganda. good day you twit, chris
I looked at your map on that site, and it would seem to me that the areas that are shaded look lie areas of commercial fishing? I understand your worries, for I have them too. Keep hope in that the yuppie fad with fly fishing will die down and the true naturalists will prevail. I have many generations in my family that were avid field sportsmen, including hunters, but while I don’t condone the killing of animals for sport you must realize that people must be fed, and systems such as aqua culture will not provide enough product to feed the masses, what we need is control of the population and not the animals. Maybe we should start thinking about limiting people’s rights to breed? Andrew
You have many friends here. Ha, ha. LOL! OK, I can tell that T-Bone isn’t interested in my discussion. That’s fine, if I can change one mind, or even get someone to think about the problem, my post will not be in vain. James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist
except timbo’s allready in your camp, until he realizes that you wackos actually want to ban all fishing, all hunting, and all use of animals in any regard… regardless of whether a fishing releases or keeps his catch or does a little bit of both (that selective harvest thing). james allen andrews (professional idiot, amateur naturalist) wants all fishing to be banned… to hell with all that sportfishermen and the groups they join (TU, FFF, WA Trout, CA Trout, etc.) do to protect and restore fish populations worldwide. he is an enemy to restoring fish populations in the united states and the rest of the world. he thinks that if we don’t kill a few fish everything will be allright. hey james, the real problems facing our fisheries are habitat destruction and commercial overharvest. switch to facing those issues and your professional idiot title may disappear, and you might just make some sense. so long wacko, go eat some tofu, chris
If you want to discuss this with an OPEN mind in a gentlemanly open and exchange of ideas then email me for this group thread will probably desintigrate into another C&R tirade real quick.
Well, OK, but it seems civil so far. Has this been a problem around here before? And if you don’t mind, what’s C&R? If you’re trolling,
An ironic use of terms in this newsgroup! No, I’m not trolling. I humbly interject that you are completely ignoring the relevant facts of evolution, the food chain, giving to much creedence to computer designs in fishing, and loosing sight of what some peoples idea of nature is all about.
I understand some people’s idea of nature is different than mine. I’ve stated mine (at least I hope I have), and am willing to listen to anyone who disputes the effects of flyfishing on the world’s fish population. Wayne *biologist turned accountant but very concerned about nature, regardless*
James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist (and still an engineer!)
Jim, I looked at the site you indicated. Where does it say anything about flyfishing? Not much thought in your weenieassed post. Just because you mean well doesn’t mean you know anything. Show me any study, published anywhere, in any language, by anyone, that says flyfishing is responsible for the imminent extinction of any fish species and I will read it and discuss it with you. Until you can come up with even one lameassed bit of evidence, you are masterbating in public. Im sorry but as you mature you will run into many mean people like me who have limited patience with fools. Unless you are willing to put some learning effort into your interests, you may want to look for a more suitable avocation than "naturtalist" as an outlet for your need to share your ideas with others. Perhaps some areas where opinions are perfered over facts. A few suggestions are religion, politics, corrections, educational policy, folk dancing, Now the other part. If you post more of this crap in a fishing site I care about I will kill every third fish I catch in your name. I catch many fish in a year. You personally will be responsible for their deaths because you pestered me. Get it? Dave Snedeker I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.
SNIPPED REST OF DRIVEL
I was recently introduced to fly fishing ( a long story of which I will spare you the details). I took a 1/2 day lesson with a very experienced instructor which I greatly enjoyed and considered very valuable. I know I still have a lot to learn and look forward to it, but I cannot afford more lessons. Would anybody out there be willing to take me under their wing? I promise not to take much of your time if you just let me observe; let me know how I am doing every now and then; tell me some fly fishing stories you hvae experienced over the years; etcetera. On our outtings, I could provide with excellent food, good beer, a good cigar, … I know that this is not much to offer in return, but that’s all I can offer … plus a good friendship. I live in Manchester, CT and be willing to drive anywhere to meet you. Let me know if you want to know more about myself or perhaps meet me. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you so much in advance. Rafael
<snip Would anybody out there be willing to take me under their wing? I promise not to take much of your time if you just let me observe;<snip On our outtings, I could provide with excellent food, good beer, a good cigar, <snip I live in Manchester, CT and be willing to drive anywhere to meet you.
Drive on out to Colorado and bring a box of Cohibas, and I will let you watch me fish. You can surprise me with the good food and beer. Charlie
Try finding a local flyfishing club. Dues are usually very nominal and such clubs often offer neophytes free instruction in various aspects of the sport. Also, you’ll meet people there who you can buddy up with. My club in San Diego organizes 3 or 4 long range trips per year, shorter range trips (within State) about once a month and weekly meets at the local lakes. I cannot thing of a better way to get into and enjoy the sport than through your flyfishing local. — -dnc- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I promise not to take much of your time if you just let me observe; let me know how I am doing every now and then; tell me some fly fishing stories you hvae experienced over the years; etcetera.
Try finding a local flyfishing club. Dues are usually very nominal and such clubs often offer neophytes free instruction in various aspects of the sport. Also, you’ll meet people there who you can buddy up with. My club in San Diego organizes 3 or 4 long range trips per year, shorter range trips (within State) about once a month and weekly meets at the local lakes. I cannot thing of a better way to get into and enjoy the sport than through your flyfishing local.
– Rafael, ol’ buddy. This could be your most important flyfishing lesson of all. Never trust any flyfisherman who turns down a good cigar, good food, and good beer. Club schmub. Gas up and head for Colorado. That was a much better deal:)) BP
Actually Meta might be right. Obviously clubs aren’t for him. That offer from Colorado does sound pretty good. If you want to drive all that way to become a cook and give up your best Cubans, please suit yourself. If that doesn’t work out, you can still use a local club as your back up, and you can always quit that, if it doesn’t suit your fancy. Actually, you could try a club first, if one exists locally, and find out if that suits you. Never trust a man who tries to convince you to limit your options.– -dnc- PS. By the way, I would gladly take you up on your offer for food and beer. But alas, I hate cigars. So I guess maybe you could trust me about two-thirds of the time. Or perhaps the cigar thing is the telling factor, we’ll have to wait for sage Meta to pass us the phacts on that one.
On our outtings, I could provide with excellent food, good beer, a good cigar, … I know that this is not much to offer in return, but that’s all I can offer …
Sounds like a HELL of an offer to me… — TimW Halfordian Golfer
<Actually Meta might be right. Obviously clubs aren’t for him. That offer <from Colorado does sound pretty good. If you want to drive all that way to <become a cook and give up your best Cubans, please suit yourself. If that <doesn’t work out, you can still use a local club as your back up, and you <can always quit that, if it doesn’t suit your fancy. Actually, you could t<ry a club first, if one exists locally, and find out if that suits you. <Never trust a man who tries to convince you to limit your options.– < < -dnc- (It’s gettin’ a little too southern California serious for me.I don’t know, maybe its cause they don’t have any spring creeks for 100s of miles. Please plant tongue firmly in cheek before reading.) Limit Options hell. Keep em wide open. How about Cheeseman, Frying Pan, Blue, and a hundred others that I’m sure shall remain nameless? Given the options to fish there, would one really want to spend the summer talking about ff in CT by comparison? Why drive? United, who does allow you to carry on flyrods, flies there cheap. As for cigars, I thought Rafael was gettin’ off easy only having to supply Cohibas instead of providing the proper cigar for each hatch. And he did say good food, so let’s at least call him a chef. But for clubs, to paraphrase Graucho Marx (famous cigar smoker), " I wouldn’t join any club that would have me as a member."
<Never trust a man who tries to convince you to limit your options.– < < -dnc- (It’s gettin’ a little too southern California serious for me.I don’t know, maybe its cause they don’t have any spring creeks for 100s of miles. Please plant tongue firmly in cheek before reading.) Limit Options hell. Keep em wide open. How about Cheeseman, Frying Pan, Blue, and a hundred others that I’m sure shall remain nameless?
Not too serious, I hope. But your rejoinder has given me a good laugh, so thank you…I think. Unfortunately, you are 100% correct about the spring creeks (not even sure if I could define the term, although smooth water and the need for delicate presentation comes to mind…certainly an experience to be sought, and probably worth a few cigars!). As far as clubs go, they can offer an awful lot of free information for the urbanite neophyte. So I say try it. It couldn’t hoit. Who knows, they might offer you a cigar.
(JRGonza) writes: SNIP<
I’d suggest tracking down a copy of the "Curtis Creek Manifesto," an excellent primer (humorous too). Then, while you’re browsing around the fly shops looking for it, ask about local flyfishing clubs. 99.99999% of flyfishing is going to be practice. Here’s a tip: to catch fish, you don’t have to be a great caster, just learn to be sneaky. Most of your casts will be thirty feet or less (10′ leader and 20′ of line out). Learning not to spook the fish is a good thing. I have caught some very nice Brown’s by hiding in the bushes and flipping a beetle over some grass into a lake with nothing but leader out. Oh yeah, buy a good pair of polarized glasses…makes a huge difference. Good luck! DP
The Curtis Creek Manifesto is hilarious and good. The author was a friend of my Dads and he lived near the Williamson River in Oregon. He’s dead now, the victim, I think, of hard and fast living. As for mentors, my Dad was the best for me. I am a fourth generation fly fisherman and that wisdom of the ages is good to have. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (JRGonza) writes: SNIP< I’d suggest tracking down a copy of the "Curtis Creek Manifesto," an excellent primer (humorous too). Then, while you’re browsing around the fly shops looking for it, ask about local flyfishing clubs. 99.99999% of flyfishing is going to be practice. Here’s a tip: to catch fish, you don’t have to be a great caster, just learn to be sneaky. Most of your casts will be thirty feet or less (10′ leader and 20′ of line out). Learning not to spook the fish is a good thing. I have caught some very nice Brown’s by hiding in the bushes and flipping a beetle over some grass into a lake with nothing but leader out. Oh yeah, buy a good pair of polarized glasses…makes a huge difference. Good luck! DP
Tom, I hate to drizzle on your parade, but I think a reasonable inference from the photos of the original 13 patterns in the Treatise (as interpreted by the famous angling historian Jack Heddon) is that at least 2 were caddis imitations, the Ruddy Fly and the Black Leaper. These are downwing flies whereas the "Dun" flies have upwings. If you agree, it means caddis imitations were among the earliest known patterns. Paul Marriner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Hi– I read Wright’s 1972 book, _Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect_, : with much interest. Certainly new to me! : But did Wright invent the caddis fly, as someone posted? : Weren’t some of the earliest known flies caddis imitations? A lot of the FF tradition was brought from England, and a lot of that was, to be polite, mayflycentric ;-^) Most of the early patterns were for mayflies; it was only later that folks began to seriously imitate caddises, stoneflies, terrestrials, etc. — 3798 Woodland Drive voice: (250) 368-9315 Trail, BC data: (250) 368-9341
: Hi– I read Wright’s 1972 book, _Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect_, : with much interest. Certainly new to me! : But did Wright invent the caddis fly, as someone posted? : Weren’t some of the earliest known flies caddis imitations? A lot of the FF tradition was brought from England, and a lot of that was, to be polite, mayflycentric ;-^) Most of the early patterns were for mayflies; it was only later that folks began to seriously imitate caddises, stoneflies, terrestrials, etc. — 3798 Woodland Drive voice: (250) 368-9315 Trail, BC data: (250) 368-9341
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While Leonard Wright did not "invent" the caddisfly, it’s said he was first the white man to meet one, long ago, in the days when even insects could speak. Mr. Wright was ever a man of edges, and curious, so he immediately proceeded to question the bug. "I watched a trout eat one of your brethren," said he. "And since it’s widely known by narrow minds that trout eat only mayflies, I must ask: Are you merely a mayfly, rather badly bent?" The mayfly, a lady, and an elegant princess of a family ignored by anglers, demurred. "Oh no," she whispered, and shyly lifted a folded wing, revealing herself from thorax to rounded abdomen. "So I see," said Mr. Wright, noting the absence of tails, "and you are certainly lovely." The poor caddis, overwhelmed with pleasure, oviposited right there and then, swooned, fell to the stream and twitched twice, which caused her to be eaten by a three-pound brook trout Wright had seen it all. He thrilled to the meeting, grasped its meaning, sat to his vise. The rest is history, of course. An evolution, in a way, for imbedded in those eggs that lady caddis lay, deep in their DNA, remained a memory of Wright’s attention, captured forever in a charming moment… And that is why, fellow anglers, that even today, a descendent of Lady Caddifly may see you on a stream, mistake you for another brave Maverick– And flutter. From a review of <Trout Maverick in <California Fly Fisher: ….History and instruction aside, there’s another reason to read Wright carefully, perhaps the most compelling: Wright is a <thinker. Occasionally philosophical, sentimental about split cane and gut leaders, he is most keen when he puzzles and prods, experiments, dismisses traditional assumptions when "a bleak, black day" demands something different and new. He’s not the kind of fisher who, facing failure, will do what’s prescribed until the sun goes down; Wright wonders, tinkers and tries. If his successes leave him with a dim view of purists, Wright certainly doesn’t blink an apology… …at the heart of Wright’s writing is appreciation for independent examination, for the willingness to study closely, trust what you see, and proceed from there. In the end <Trout Maverick is as heretical as this: "…when you start observing flies and fly behavior for yourself without relying on some other man’s word, you’ll find a whole new and productive world of fishing."
It can be discouraging wading through the newsgroups sometimes but I suspect that this is the sort of post that keeps many of us coming back. I read the post yesterday asking if Mr Wright had invented the caddisfly and simply moved on with a mental roll of my eyes. Mriffler was inspired to greatness and my evening is better for it. I will look to his posts in the future.
To whom it may concern, The other day I made a critical reference to the book "Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect", Leonard M. Wright. My remark was about what I saw as conceipt by the author. That, I got the feeling that he thought he discovered the caddisfly. That he stores silk lines in the freezer made him an elitist prick, that sort of thing… Well…it’s funny how humility looks you up and hunts you down. I have since learned that Leonard M. Wright is a very elderly gentleman now, nearly if not ecclipsing 80. I have learned that he is a great man and a dear, dear friend to many, many of us. I realize now that when he wrote the book initially, he really was breaking new ground. He had every right to be proud of his discoveries. I am ashamed of my careless and callous remarks and I apologize profusely. What is really disturbing and humbling is that, despite my feelings and despite the fact that it is hard to read the book for those reasons, I have found myself reading it at least twice every winter for better then 10 years. He really does have something important and useful for us to learn. Thank you, Leonard M. Wright. I owe you a great deal. A debt that I have no idea how to repay… — TimW Halfordian Golfer
To whom it may concern, The other day I made a critical reference to the book "Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect", Leonard M. Wright. My remark was about what I saw as conceipt by the author. <etc Well…it’s funny how humility looks you up and hunts you down. I have since learned that Leonard M. Wright is a very elderly gentleman now, nearly if not ecclipsing 80. I have learned that he is a great man and a dear, dear friend to many, many of us.
<etc Thank you, Leonard M. Wright. I owe you a great deal.
No sweat. A debt that I have no idea how to repay…
You could start by cutting out the ten to fifteen C&K-vs-C&R-everyone-else-stopped- listening-months-ago-never-ending-debate-from-Hell posts per day crap. Don’t you have a job or something? This goes for you too, Ralph. — Leonard M. Wright – Fly Fishing Legend, Inventor of the Caddis Fly
Excellent response Leo. I agree completely. Thanks, Rick
You could start by cutting out the ten to fifteen C&K-vs-C&R-everyone-else-stopped-listening-months-ago-never-ending- debate-from-Hell posts per day crap. Don’t you have a job or something? This goes for you too, Ralph. Leonard M. Wright – Fly Fishing Legend, Inventor of the Caddis Fly
Do you remember that scene where Woody Allen pulls Marshall McLuhan out of a corner to put a windy so-and-so in his place? From now on, whenever Moe starts to rant I will smile and think of Woody and Leonard. Keep your stick on the ice, Thos.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You could start by cutting out the ten to fifteen C&K-vs-C&R-everyone-else-stopped-listening-months-ago-never-ending- debate-from-Hell posts per day crap. Don’t you have a job or something? This goes for you too, Ralph. Leonard M. Wright – Fly Fishing Legend, Inventor of the Caddis Fly Do you remember that scene where Woody Allen pulls Marshall McLuhan out of a corner to put a windy so-and-so in his place? From now on, whenever Moe starts to rant I will smile and think of Woody and Leonard. Keep your stick on the ice, Thos.
The best part is where Thos. says to keep your stick ….. Everyone is wright. There is tooo much egotistical BS on Roff. But hey, that’s the way its been the two years I’ve been watching -Doug
Mr. Wright, Thank you, a million times, thank you. Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You could start by cutting out the ten to fifteen C&K-vs-C&R-everyone-else-stopped- listening-months-ago-never-ending-debate-from-Hell posts per day crap.
Hi– I read Wright’s 1972 book, _Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect_, with much interest. Certainly new to me! But did Wright invent the caddis fly, as someone posted? Weren’t some of the earliest known flies caddis imitations? vince norris
While Leonard Wright did not "invent" the caddisfly, it’s said he was first the white man to meet one, long ago, in the days when even insects could speak. Mr. Wright was ever a man of edges, and curious, so he immediately proceeded to question the bug. "I watched a trout eat one of your brethren," said he. "And since it’s widely known by narrow minds that trout eat only mayflies, I must ask: Are you merely a mayfly, rather badly bent?" The mayfly, a lady, and an elegant princess of a family ignored by anglers, demurred. "Oh no," she whispered, and shyly lifted a folded wing, revealing herself from thorax to rounded abdomen. "So I see," said Mr. Wright, noting the absence of tails, "and you are certainly lovely." The poor caddis, overwhelmed with pleasure, oviposited right there and then, swooned, fell to the stream and twitched twice, which caused her to be eaten by a three-pound brook trout Wright had seen it all. He thrilled to the meeting, grasped its meaning, sat to his vise. The rest is history, of course. An evolution, in a way, for imbedded in those eggs that lady caddis lay, deep in their DNA, remained a memory of Wright’s attention, captured forever in a charming moment… And that is why, fellow anglers, that even today, a descendent of Lady Caddifly may see you on a stream, mistake you for another brave Maverick– And flutter. From a review of <Trout Maverick in <California Fly Fisher: ….History and instruction aside, there’s another reason to read Wright carefully, perhaps the most compelling: Wright is a <thinker. Occasionally philosophical, sentimental about split cane and gut leaders, he is most keen when he puzzles and prods, experiments, dismisses traditional assumptions when "a bleak, black day" demands something different and new. He’s not the kind of fisher who, facing failure, will do what’s prescribed until the sun goes down; Wright wonders, tinkers and tries. If his successes leave him with a dim view of purists, Wright certainly doesn’t blink an apology… …at the heart of Wright’s writing is appreciation for independent examination, for the willingness to study closely, trust what you see, and proceed from there. In the end <Trout Maverick is as heretical as this: "…when you start observing flies and fly behavior for yourself without relying on some other man’s word, you’ll find a whole new and productive world of fishing."
Quoting lauraoli from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly If anyone has sources for materials at good prices I would be interested in that as well. Thank you in advance! Try Anglers Workshop P.O. Box 1044 1350 Atlantic Woodland, Wa. 1044 1-206-225-9445 1-206-225-6359 Jim in Southern California `[1;30;47mRainbow V 1.06 for Delphi – Registered
I have built two rods. I bought the cork handle, reel seat, and guides from Angler’s Workshop in Woodland, WA., for the last rod and beleive I got a very good deal from them. I bought my epoxy glue for the handle, thread and wrapping finish from them. They have been very helpful. For books, I have Skip Morris’s and L.A. Garcia’s. I like both, but if I only had one I would use Skip’s. They may be in your library. For tools, I bought a reamer for the cork handle. The wrapping finish kit had syringes for measuring and brushes for applying. I make my own rod support and used a book to develop the trhead tension like Morris explained in his book. I bought a pen tip and ink as he suggested for the inscription at a stationary store. Masking tape, tip top adhesive, and some fine sandpaper and that is about it. I would get Morris’s book and work with Angler’s Workshop. I do not think they will try to sell you what you do not need. Call them at 206-225-9445 and they will send you a catalog. Both rods have come out nice. One is a Sage 9′ 6 wt, and the other is a St. Croix 8′6" 5/6 wt pack rod.
Summary: Keywords: Hello, I am attemping to build my first rod. I have sent off for a book on building rods, but I am interested in information from some people that have actually tied your own rod. What materials and equipment will I just HAVE to have? I have my blank already. But I would like a few tips on things to watch for and supplies I need and those I might can do with out. Also, If anyone has sources for materials at good prices I would be interested in that as well. Thank you in advance! Fish whenever you can and dream about it when you can’t! Thanks again, Kelli B. c/o RLaura Oliveri
Hello, My family is heading up to the North Fork (Henry’s Fork) of the Snake River in about a week. Can anybody tell me how are the water conditions? How is the (non-fly) fishing, in general? Thanks The above opinions are unregistered, evaluation opinions. They are copyrighted solely by me. If you wish to purchase a license to use these opinions, please send me $15. Distribution without intent of permanent possesion is permitted and encouraged. "When one has lost one’s reason for living, one tends to be less motivated." – Utwig, StarControl II
(Brad Kirby) writes:
havent heard lately how henrys is running, the main stem is still pretty full, although it changes almost daily due to water releases. i’m going over that way on the 18th for a week or so. you missed the salmon fly hatch by now on the henrys fork, overall the fishing on the snake system is [generally] pretty good, i always have good luck on large black roostertails for cutthroat, any large type spinner for browns in that area and lately have been having success with bro or black or some combination of jig, let it tap the bottom and keep your line tight, cutts will grab it on the fall, good luck.