Question:

snipped great stuff:  A wonderful fight on the 4 wt ‘boo, but I was wishing I had the 6 wt to give me a little bit of umpf to fight the fish (I don’t hold to the lighter rod, better fighting ability theory but the bigger rod manhandle the fish theory).  I eventually turned his head after making him fight his way upstream and landed him in the slack water.  After a couple of quick pictures in the net and the alongside the rod, I released him.  A splash from his tail was his final act of defiance before his departure.

You and Sacajaweah are in love, no?  You and "bird woman?"  ("Sacagawea") Sacajawea means "boat pusher or launcher" Sacajawea also in my mind’s eye (because I am an insatiable romantic) still means "Bird Woman" to me.  She, of all women in America, is to me the greatest of all in our history.  So . . . in a phrase, you went fishing with Bird Woman and she made you smile, a bit? Great post Warren.  I mean it. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com "the saga continues"

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 A wonderful fight on the 4 wt

Yes indeed.  My love of this rod is no secret and I have been eager for the changing of the seasons to get her back in the line up. — Warren Findley "The vice or virtue of any form of angling lies not in the method but in the man." Author Hugh Falkus

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:The fishing should be prime right now, just before Run Off, so you best get :those licks in ASAP.  Spring is here, big man.  I’ve been hitting the Snake almost :daily and it is stunning just how eager the fish are right now. Willi and I were talking about this earlier today.  Over the last couple of weeks I have noticed quite a change in the behavior of our resident piscatorial neighbors.  They are very eager to eat after a long, cold winter.  I was telling Willi, that fall and right after winter are just about the only times I can ever get fish on big flies consistently.  Every trip out merely confirms this belief until Spring is finally settled in and Summer approaches. :I know the Arkansas River in Salida, Colorad is prime now as run off starts in :April but I think it will be early all over the North West, don’t you? :Have to run.  Got cork handles to bore out and fit. :And a #32 fly to tie. : ; ) Yes, I think runoff will be a tad bit early.  The Yellowstone was already showing signs of early runoff.  If I hadn’t lived there and fished it regularly, I doubt I would have noticed the slight change. After experiencing it for a couple of years you start to know the water and know the stages of runoff just by the color and what to expect by the weather.  If this recent bit of cold lasts, it may just delay things a bit though.  I have almost quit watching the weather reports because they are wrong more often than not, but I think I am going to start keeping better track during this time of year and hope they are right. The good news is that I am not sure runoff will be all that long. With another bad year for snowpack, I doubt things will be as bad as a "normal" year.  The other bit of good news is that the weather has been operating in terms of "pockets".  It was windy, cold and sunny today in Bozeman, but cloudy, warmer and calm in Livingston.  Ennis has been getting some nice weather according to the news, but West Yellowstone has been repeatedly colder, cloudier, and has more snow. If everything works out like I hope it will, I will be able to fish through most of runoff season yet again due to this pocket effect. I’m hoping at least. Get to that #32.  You are supposed to send me one <g — Warren Findley "The vice or virtue of any form of angling lies not in the method but in the man." Author Hugh Falkus

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Went fishing today in a long side channel of the Yellowstone that is easily accessible and very wadable.  I couldn’t see any activity from the bank as I rigged up, but decided to use the bamboo in case I came across any rising fish.  The water was a touch off color, but not bad enough to really affect visibility.  I rigged up two nymphs and made my way to the river and to the spot I always start at. After my first couple of casts I began to notice a few fish feeding off the surface.  I couldn’t see what they were rising to, but started looking around and saw mostly midges with very few baetis mixed in.  I decided to clip off the nymphs and fish dries and was rewarded with a chubby little rainbow of about 10" right off the bat.  I caught a couple more and decided to work my way downstream a little further.  I didn’t see any more rising fish so I switched over to a nymph and a big rubber leg brownstone for the deep pools. I worked my way through the deep pools and picked up a couple of fish. The sun began to shine as a big empty patch in the clouds came into position.  I never did see any more rising fish as it stayed sunny for the remainder of my stay, but I had good luck with the olive CDC GRHE and brownstone.  The fish in the faster sections were just hammering the brownstone. There is a section that I really like to fish that has several ridges of rock in the channel.  I don’t know what kind of rock it is, but it looks like maybe some kind of shale.  It is really flaky and the layers stand up almost vertically.  I like to call them the "spines" for lack of a better term.  Anyway, I caught several of fish throughout this area as well as losing several flies to the rocks. My biggest fish of the day, an 18" rainbow that was FAT, took the brownstone.  I thought I was caught up along the bottom because I set the hook when the indicator paused and just felt solid weight like I was hung up on a rock.  After several jerks, all of the sudden it was zzzzzzzz as line starting peeling off.  A wonderful fight on the 4 wt ‘boo, but I was wishing I had the 6 wt to give me a little bit of umpf to fight the fish (I don’t hold to the lighter rod, better fighting ability theory but the bigger rod manhandle the fish theory).  I eventually turned his head after making him fight his way upstream and landed him in the slack water.  After a couple of quick pictures in the net and the alongside the rod, I released him.  A splash from his tail was his final act of defiance before his departure. I caught a few more fish and found a pod of whitefish that proved to be fun.  I also hooked a really nice brown deep in the "spines" that I got to the surface.  When he felt the cold air he violently thrashed on the surface and put on a nice acrobatic display before breaking me off.  I lost several more flies along the bottom and eventually called it quits after having had my fill of fish for the day.  All in all, it was another very pleasant day by myself on a fine river.   I can only hope that the wind in Bozeman dies down tonight so I can hit the Gallatin tomorrow. — Warren Findley "The vice or virtue of any form of angling lies not in the method but in the man." Author Hugh Falkus

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Question:

Yeah. The best thing to do is ignore ‘em. I sometimes rise to the bait, but I feel chagrined every time I do. Problem is, it stops being a sport when the participants become polarized over anything, whether it’s bamboo or race relations.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <<1. Is there anything we can do about the political/hate messages I see posted here other than ignoring them and hoping they’ll go away? 1. It’s a little like fishing. You don’t have to try to catch everyone you see. You don’t have to keep all you catch. You can just ignore the little guys. <<2. Gehrke has obviously changed his address since I last added him to my kill file. Would someone please send me an email with any aliases he may currently be using so I can prevent his correspondence from reaching me? 2. Now we also have Muskie to deal with.

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Lennie, if you’re at all related to the Richardson Fly Box, you might want to consider moving to another state. Let us know where you’re planning to fish and your general locale–there are for better or worse quite a few other ROFF regulars who live in NC.

I’m not familiar with the Richardson Fly Box, but we could be related. My father’s family is centered in Marion, SC and I’m told I have relatives near Charlotte. I’m a reasonably fair fly dresser, but I can scarcely meet my own demand let alone do it commercially. Besides, I tie flies to catch fish, not to look purty. –Steve (typing this from Cary, NC; headed to Watauga county tomorrow morning) P.S. and no I won’t be doing any fishing this time

Maybe if you don’t get to fish you can get in some skiing.

Response:

Hi All, It’s been a while since I hung out here, like since late June. I have a couple of questions: 1. Is there anything we can do about the political/hate messages I see posted here other than ignoring them and hoping they’ll go away?

Yeah, just post more trips reports like you did for your Montana trip. I enjoyed the pix. Willi

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Lennie, were you speaking of the Upper Creek off of Mt. Mitchell or the Upper Creek off 181 Hwy in Burke County?  I fish the Burke County Upper. Don’t recall the 10" ice.  This is a great stream. — Opie  –Psychotic Psychic to the recently deceased–

Response:

The one in Burke County. It was OK coming in from the Johns River side, but we went out the road that takes you to Wilson Creek and that’s the one that was iced over. It was slick. Drove out in 4 wheel low  the whole way. It was beautiful, but slicker than fresh snot on a doorknob.

Response:

I’m in Charlotte. I was thinking about heading over toward the delayed harvest area of the Tuckaseegee, but I love all the areas you’ve mentioned above. It’s starting to look like the weather could keep us home. I love to fish in the snow and I don’t mind driving in it if I’m the only car on I-40 between Statesville and the Tennessee line. I drove up to Upper Creek January of this year and it was 10" deep in hard ice, not snow. Looked like a mini-glacier. What part of Wilson Creek do you like to fish this time of year? LR

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where are you located Lennie?  I’m in Lenoir and plan to fish this weekend on Upper Creek, or Lost Cove, or Wilson Creek or somewhere. — Opie  –Planning for the Past– I live in North Carolina and am going to try to go fishing in the snow this weekend. I’ll post a report when I get back. Merry Christmas and a Happy Chanuka/Ramadan/Kwanzaa/New Year to all, Lennie Richardson (Not "Mr. R.", not ashamed of my name)

Response:

I live in North Carolina and am going to try to go fishing in the snow this weekend. I’ll post a report when I get back.

Lennie, if you’re at all related to the Richardson Fly Box, you might want to consider moving to another state. Let us know where you’re planning to fish and your general locale–there are for better or worse quite a few other ROFF regulars who live in NC. –Steve (typing this from Cary, NC; headed to Watauga county tomorrow morning) P.S. and no I won’t be doing any fishing this time

Response:

<<1. Is there anything we can do about the political/hate messages I see posted here other than ignoring them and hoping they’ll go away? 1. It’s a little like fishing. You don’t have to try to catch everyone you see. You don’t have to keep all you catch. You can just ignore the little guys. <<2. Gehrke has obviously changed his address since I last added him to my kill file. Would someone please send me an email with any aliases he may currently be using so I can prevent his correspondence from reaching me? 2. Now we also have Muskie to deal with.

Response:

Where are you located Lennie?  I’m in Lenoir and plan to fish this weekend on Upper Creek, or Lost Cove, or Wilson Creek or somewhere. — Opie  –Planning for the Past–

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I live in North Carolina and am going to try to go fishing in the snow this weekend. I’ll post a report when I get back. Merry Christmas and a Happy Chanuka/Ramadan/Kwanzaa/New Year to all, Lennie Richardson (Not "Mr. R.", not ashamed of my name)

Response:

Hi All, It’s been a while since I hung out here, like since late June. I have a couple of questions: 1. Is there anything we can do about the political/hate messages I see posted here other than ignoring them and hoping they’ll go away? 2. Gehrke has obviously changed his address since I last added him to my kill file. Would someone please send me an email with any aliases he may currently be using so I can prevent his correspondence from reaching me? I use his product and it works just fine for me. As a matter of fact, I’ve got a bottle I bought in 1990 which I’ve only half used up. It’s his biased blather that I don’t care for. I still find many stimulating and useful posts in this group, so I have no plans to give up on it just yet. Thanks to all of you (you know who you are) that make this a worthwhile NG. BTW, I’ve been to Montana since the last time I visited this group, so if anybody would like to see a few pretty fish pictures, please take a look at http://home.carolina.rr.com/ellarrandfamily/photo.htm. I had the good fortune to meet some super fishermen, guides, and flyshop folk while I was there, but I’m not going to turn my post into a commercial for them. I live in North Carolina and am going to try to go fishing in the snow this weekend. I’ll post a report when I get back. Merry Christmas and a Happy Chanuka/Ramadan/Kwanzaa/New Year to all, Lennie Richardson (Not "Mr. R.", not ashamed of my name)

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Question:

Well is there any here? All I seem to see is a bunch of intolerant wackos stating there political beliefs! "Why can’t we all just get along?" hehe I just subscribed to this group for fly fishing advice, but I think instead I will go talk to my dad and grandpa instead. Thanks for giving me the idea! Mike

Response:

Well is there any here? All I seem to see is a bunch of intolerant wackos stating there political beliefs! "Why can’t we all just get along?" hehe I just subscribed to this group for fly fishing advice, but I think instead I will go talk to my dad and grandpa instead. Thanks for giving me the idea!

Talking to one’s parents and grandparents is always a good idea, IMO. — Charlie…

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says… Well is there any here? All I seem to see is a bunch of intolerant wackos stating there political beliefs! "Why can’t we all just get along?" hehe I just subscribed to this group for fly fishing advice, but I think instead I will go talk to my dad and grandpa instead. Thanks for giving me the idea! Mike

You are most certainly welcome. –Walt

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Well is there any here? All I seem to see is a bunch of intolerant wackos stating there political beliefs! "Why can’t we all just get along?" hehe I just subscribed to this group for fly fishing advice, but I think instead I will go talk to my dad and grandpa instead. Thanks for giving me the idea! Mike

OK. Just remember….in this group, as with most others, you get out of it what you put into it. I could point out the obvious, but I refrain. If you have a ligit question, post it, and you may be suprised at the quality of the answer. There again, life is full of

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Question:

Stick with the hardwood patches for the planks.  Ignore the loose canvas unless it is peeling off.  (As long as it is well attached along the stems and gunwales.)  Sand lightly (wet or dry) being careful not to sand into the fabric.  Paint with marine grade paint: flat, semi, or gloss … your choice.  Classic Boatworks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howdy all!  I need some help here. I own a canvas-covered cedar ribbed canoe [Chestnut Prospector Fort Garry, circa 1970] in need of repairs and paint.  First, any books to recommend? I have borrowed Stelmok and Thurlow’s *The Wood & Canvas Canoe*.  Fine book and great for anybody wishing to restore a canvas canoe, but I would prefer not to "restore" the canoe.  Any other books? Specifically: Some of the planks are cracked.  My father in the past has placed small flat pieces of hard-wood over these cracks and held them in place with marine epoxy. Varnish then covers the works. It appears to have worked well over the years.  I might use small pieces of cedar instead.  I would prefer not to use sheet-metal and have to remove the ribs. The paint is cracked and peeled.  The canvas is a little loose in a couple of places.  Trail-Head in Ottawa painted the canoe for me in 1994 and frankly, I do not think they did a good job. I need to strip it all off and re-paint, I would assume.  How? Wet-and-dry sand paper?  Chemical?  If so, which chemical?  Should I remove the keel before removing the paint?  Use a semi-gloss finish as recommended by Stelmok and Thurlow? I do not believe that the canoe needs to re-canvased.  I use it presently to fly fish for kamloops trout in the Merritt/Kamloops area and it works fine. Cheers, Burnaby, BC

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Check out the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association site and you’ll find all the help you can handle. Rich Briere – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Howdy all!  I need some help here. I own a canvas-covered cedar ribbed canoe [Chestnut Prospector Fort Garry, circa 1970] in need of repairs and paint.  First, any books to recommend? I have borrowed Stelmok and Thurlow’s *The Wood & Canvas Canoe*.  Fine book and great for anybody wishing to restore a canvas canoe, but I would prefer not to "restore" the canoe.  Any other books? Specifically: Some of the planks are cracked.  My father in the past has placed small flat pieces of hard-wood over these cracks and held them in place with marine epoxy. Varnish then covers the works. It appears to have worked well over the years.  I might use small pieces of cedar instead.  I would prefer not to use sheet-metal and have to remove the ribs. The paint is cracked and peeled.  The canvas is a little loose in a couple of places.  Trail-Head in Ottawa painted the canoe for me in 1994 and frankly, I do not think they did a good job. I need to strip it all off and re-paint, I would assume.  How? Wet-and-dry sand paper?  Chemical?  If so, which chemical?  Should I remove the keel before removing the paint?  Use a semi-gloss finish as recommended by Stelmok and Thurlow? I do not believe that the canoe needs to re-canvased.  I use it presently to fly fish for kamloops trout in the Merritt/Kamloops area and it works fine. Cheers, Burnaby, BC

Response:

Howdy all!  I need some help here. I own a canvas-covered cedar ribbed canoe [Chestnut Prospector Fort Garry, circa 1970] in need of repairs and paint.  First, any books to recommend? I have borrowed Stelmok and Thurlow’s *The Wood & Canvas Canoe*.  Fine book and great for anybody wishing to restore a canvas canoe, but I would prefer not to "restore" the canoe.  Any other books?

This book is the "bible" of wood canvas canoe repair and restoration, so don’t be afraid of it. You don’t have to be doing a major restoration to appreciate the techniques and advice that the book has to offer. As for other books, there are books and articles available from and on the WCHA website that might be of some help to you. Specifically: Some of the planks are cracked.  My father in the past has placed small flat pieces of hard-wood over these cracks and held them in place with marine epoxy. Varnish then covers the works. It appears to have worked well over the years.  I might use small pieces of cedar instead.  I would prefer not to use sheet-metal and have to remove the ribs.

Don’t use metal. It’s ugly and not necessary. You can glue/screw on patches over cracked ribs as long as you don’t have too many in a row that are broken. Stain them the color of the wood and varnish over the whole area. It will work out fine.  If you decide to recanvas you may want to try a backside rib repair. This is detailed in a Wooden Canoe back issue available at the WCHA website. The paint is cracked and peeled.  The canvas is a little loose in a couple of places.  Trail-Head in Ottawa painted the canoe for me in 1994 and frankly, I do not think they did a good job.

If the canoe leaks, remember that painting will not help much. Leaks are caused by cracked filler, not cracked paint. The paint protects the filler and if this is cracked, your options are more limited. You can try to fill the cracks with bondo or something similar, but I generally take this as an indication that the canoe needs to be recanvassed. I need to strip it all off and re-paint, I would assume.  How? Wet-and-dry sand paper?  Chemical?  If so, which chemical?  Should I remove the keel before removing the paint?  Use a semi-gloss finish as recommended by Stelmok and Thurlow?

Chemical strippers may eat right through the filler, depending on the formula used. Sanding down to the filler is fine, but be sure not to sand too deeply and expose canvas weave or it’ll leak for sure.  Paint is your choice, but I use marine enamel. Semi-gloss tends to not show imperfections in the filler as gloss does, but many people use gloss paint to advantage. I do not believe that the canoe needs to re-canvased.  I use it presently to fly fish for kamloops trout in the Merritt/Kamloops area and it works fine.

Good, although canvassing is not all that tough. There are a couple of articles and back issues of Wooden Canoe that talk about it. Jerry and Rollin’s book also details it well. You can do it yourself for about $150 in materials and an afternoon’s worth of time. Enjoy your canoe. They make great friends. -Tim — Tim Hewitt – Webmaster Wooden Canoe Heritage Association, Ltd http://www.wcha.org

Response:

Howdy all!  I need some help here. I own a canvas-covered cedar ribbed canoe [Chestnut Prospector Fort Garry, circa 1970] in need of repairs and paint.  First, any books to recommend? I have borrowed Stelmok and Thurlow’s *The Wood & Canvas Canoe*.  Fine book and great for anybody wishing to restore a canvas canoe, but I would prefer not to "restore" the canoe.  Any other books? Specifically: Some of the planks are cracked.  My father in the past has placed small flat pieces of hard-wood over these cracks and held them in place with marine epoxy. Varnish then covers the works. It appears to have worked well over the years.  I might use small pieces of cedar instead.  I would prefer not to use sheet-metal and have to remove the ribs. The paint is cracked and peeled.  The canvas is a little loose in a couple of places.  Trail-Head in Ottawa painted the canoe for me in 1994 and frankly, I do not think they did a good job. I need to strip it all off and re-paint, I would assume.  How? Wet-and-dry sand paper?  Chemical?  If so, which chemical?  Should I remove the keel before removing the paint?  Use a semi-gloss finish as recommended by Stelmok and Thurlow? I do not believe that the canoe needs to re-canvased.  I use it presently to fly fish for kamloops trout in the Merritt/Kamloops area and it works fine. Cheers, Burnaby, BC

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone: I am going to revive the olde SFFC Short Fat Flyfishers Club that Dennis Bitten came up with but is now disbanded. The new name that 14 of us has chosen is "Short Fat Cigar Smokin Flyfishers Club." The rules are going to change a bit as I and others feel that a club of this type can make an impact on the market and we would truly like to make it a viable club. The market is for extended sized sport clothes, waders, gloves and various other equipment (Ever try to get a size 50" waist from Orvis in anything). Keep your Loops Tight, Flys Dry and for Pete’s sake keep your wader fly closed! Mike

Hi Mike, I’m glad to see you get this club going again. You wouldn’t consider a tall, skinny old duffers who falls in the water a lot as a candidate for membership? Just kidding, Good luck. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Do the adjectives "short" and "fat" modify "cigar," or "flyfishers"? vince norris

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Al, Until your post, I was wondering what was supposed to be "short and fat" — the cigar or the flyfisher. DaveB

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Missed the beginning of this thread. Where do I go to sign up? Bob

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Hi: Well it could be both or either I guess. The intent is for us anglers that are short and fat in stature to gain recognition in the fly fishing market. The Cigar Smoking is just an added pleasure for those of us who partake in it. MMT

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone: I am going to revive the olde SFFC Short Fat Flyfishers Club that Dennis Bitten came up with but is now disbanded. The new name that 14 of us has chosen is "Short Fat Cigar Smokin Flyfishers Club." The rules are going to change a bit as I and others feel that a club of this type can make an impact on the market and we would truly like to make it a viable club. The market is for extended sized sport clothes, waders, gloves and various other equipment (Ever try to get a size 50" waist from Orvis in anything). Keep your Loops Tight, Flys Dry and for Pete’s sake keep your wader fly closed! Mike Hi Mike, I’m glad to see you get this club going again. You wouldn’t consider a tall, skinny old duffers who falls in the water a lot as a candidate for membership? Just kidding, Good luck. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Your club is greta, though I’ll skip the cigars.  It is frustrating to try to find waders for someone 5′6" and 240 lbs.  However, you might considerthe fact that we are the final result of millions of years of evolution and that so-called "thin"people are merely, unlike us, "famine resistance challenged"!  Bill

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Not trying to be a smart a**, but try finding waders for 6′-6" 170# size 10 foot.  Most mfgs think that if you are 6-6, you should be 320 or so! One of these days I’ll find something in my size Steve Stillabower Indianapolis, IN

Response:

Hi Everyone: I am going to revive the olde SFFC Short Fat Flyfishers Club that Dennis Bitten came up with but is now disbanded. The new name that 14 of us has chosen is "Short Fat Cigar Smokin Flyfishers Club." The rules are going to change a bit as I and others feel that a club of this type can make an impact on the market and we would truly like to make it a viable club. The market is for extended sized sport clothes, waders, gloves and various other equipment (Ever try to get a size 50" waist from Orvis in anything). We have made contacts with various manufacturers that are willing to make extended sized clothing and equipment available to all us guys and GALS who have a short stature and look like a sparkplug. We even have a deal for preferred seating on two airlines so we and other passengers can feel more comfort on the flights. small, the advantages are great and heck lets get some recognition in this ever expanding market. Keep your Loops Tight, Flys Dry and for Pete’s sake keep your wader fly closed! Mike

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Question:

Of all the streams I fish in the great upper peninsula of michigan, the trout only seem to bite spinners and worms. I truly enjoy flyfishing rivers over spincasting, and was wondering if anyone fishes the u.p. with flyrods that can give me some tips. Thanks- Muskie

Response:

I haven’t fished the U.P. (I have a buddy from near Houghton who threatens to take me, but that is another story).  Anyway, I can sympathize.  I grew up fishing in N.E. Minnesota (on the other side of Lake Superior) and found the same problems.  Most of the streams were small and choked with cedars, spuce, or alders.  The only spots open enough to fly fish seemed devoid of cover, and of course were devoid of fish. But keep searching..you will soon find that spot with both cover (shade) and casting room.  Try larger streams and look for boulders and plunge pools below rapids and falls.  Searching is all the fun.  Who other that a trout fisherman would spend hours slugging through brush, mud, and mosquitoes for hours to catch a 7-inch trophy. Tight Lines – Zeke

Response:

Dear Muskie: When you refer to the U.P., you are talking about God’s country, which was also shared by the great Robert Traver.  I have spent a great deal of my youth and later years fishing the streams in the Central U.P..  The fly fishing is fine, and some of the best to be found anywhere. Streamers work especially well.  Try a Royal Coachmen, Muddler, or Black Ghost for good results.  The tried and true G.R. Hares Ear Nymph is a favorite, as well as a good selection of Bead Heads, and Zud Bugs.  No one should also venture out without a supply of Adams dry flies ranging in sizes from #12 to #20, also for a pattern to explore with, try a Betty (also called a Coachmen Trude).  The March Brown hatch can be spectacular, and takes place around the end of June through the first part of July, so carry some March Brown patterns. Just returned from two weeks in the U.P., and while the weather was not always spectacular, the fishing was good. Good Luck, Jim J.

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Question:

i am still always amazed when i see farm raised goldens for consumption at safeway… TimW

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(AdFirmOne) writes: As you probably know, Goldens live above the 10,500 foot range.  I’ve fished for them quite a bit in the eastern Sierra.

<SNIP Not necessarily so, last year caught a nice 14" golden at a lake whose elevation was at 8200 ft.  Tough to find goldens in the Sierra below 10,000 ft., but they are there.  Check out Ralph Cutter’s Sierra Trout Guide.  It has all the fishable waters in the Sierra listed by county and whether a lake or a stream.  The listing not only includes what type of trout are in evidence there, but also what elevation and which topographical map it it can be found on.                                  Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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I agree that altitude is not the govering factor.  I know a lake in the norther sierra’s with goldens.  The lake is at roughly 7000′. No I won’t tell where.  It gets too much fishing preasure as it is. | |…… Seek harmony and balance in the mountains, find harmony and balance within…..

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: I agree that altitude is not the govering factor.  I know a lake in : the norther sierra’s with goldens.  The lake is at roughly 7000′. I saw a mess of Goldens for sale in my local grocery store.  I couldn’t believe it!  I thought these fish were fairly rare? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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: I agree that altitude is not the govering factor.  I know a lake in : the norther sierra’s with goldens.  The lake is at roughly 7000′. I saw a mess of Goldens for sale in my local grocery store.  I couldn’t believe it!  I thought these fish were fairly rare?

Those aren’t the same "goldens" that are often sought after here.  They’re farm grown fish with almost a solid gold color the bares no resemblance to the Volcano Creek or Little Kern Golden trout.  I’ve seen some pictures of "golden" trout that have been introduced in some of the high country lakes in Wyoming and they also bare little resemblance to the High Sierra natives.  They’re complete devoid of par marks and don’t have the red fins of the V.C. or L.K. golden.   — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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I’ve seen some pictures of "golden" trout that have been introduced in some of the high country lakes in Wyoming and they also bare little resemblance to the High Sierra natives.  They’re complete devoid of par marks and don’t have the red fins of the V.C. or L.K. golden.  

That’s because they’ve grown to larger size.  I’ve caught small Goldens in Wyoming and Montana that fit your description.  The size of these smaller Wyoming trout matches the bigger California trout, and so does their coloration. Both rainbows and goldens loose their par marks as they get bigger. — -Wayne Trzyna

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Both rainbows and goldens loose their par marks as they get bigger.

Not so.  California (e.g. Kern) goldens keep the par marks through life. Matt Carey – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — -Wayne Trzyna

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(AdFirmOne) writes: As you probably know, Goldens live above the 10,500 foot range.  I’ve fished for them quite a bit in the eastern Sierra. All the trips required at least a 8 hour hike in to get beyond the rainbows and brookies.  A short trip like yours doesn’t promise much when searching out these beautiful fish. Good luck tho. As I said, I know of one lake that contains goldens that can be reach by vehicle with sufficient ground clearance.  I also know of several others that require no more then an hour hike.  None of these are going to be high producers.  I would guess that none of these lakes are higher then 10,500′ in elevation either.  I’m not so sure that 10.5K or even 10K is some sort of magic number for Sierra Goldens.

Hi    Golden Trout were rainbow trout less than 50,000 years ago.  They evolved into goldens in the Kern River system as low as 7,000 ft. They are considered a high elevation fish largely because that was where we planted them in the mid 1800s and early 1900’s.  They have the ability to live in most waters that can support bows.    There are about a dozen roadside golden trout waters and many less than an hour from the car (don’t ask). You’ll need to do some sleuthing, but that’s half the fun!    Tight lines, Ralph —

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Hello, I tried to post something like this already, but it doesn’t seem to have made it. My family is going on a weekend trip camping and fishing.  We are looking for possible sites to find some golden trout, but with the tight constraints–we are on a 2-day weekend trip.  This limits how far we can pack in and how far from LA (where the rest of my family lives) we can go. Any information would be helpful and appreciated. Thanks, Matt Carey

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Matt      It has been a few years but about 30-40  miles north of Bishop is a lake called convict lake. It’s fising used to be outstanding. Hike above this lake they say about 3 miles and you come to some very high mountain lakes that used to have golden trout. I tried this hike once with may not so good leg and never reached these lakes but am told they are there and seen them on the maps.      I think Convict lake’s resort used to have an internet site. Look for it at any web search engine (webcrawler, altavista, infoseek, etc.). This used to be one of my favorite fishing spots. Watch the weather reports for the storms come upon this area VERY quickly. HTH Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I tried to post something like this already, but it doesn’t seem to have made it. My family is going on a weekend trip camping and fishing.  We are looking for possible sites to find some golden trout, but with the tight constraints–we are on a 2-day weekend trip.  This limits how far we can pack in and how far from LA (where the rest of my family lives) we can go. Any information would be helpful and appreciated. Thanks, Matt Carey

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In ‘89 I did a trip up to Lake Mildred (or Martha, not sure of the name)…it’s the first lake in the chain above Convict. That lake produced many fish, but no goldens…Convict Lake was terribly crowded and I’m sure it hasn’t gotten any better…. I’ll be fishing in the Lone Pine/Whiteny area the 4th of July weekend…hoping to get up to some of the higher lakes in that area…I’ll let you all know what happens.

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As you probably know, Goldens live above the 10,500 foot range.  I’ve fished for them quite a bit in the eastern Sierra. All the trips required at least a 8 hour hike in to get beyond the rainbows and brookies.  A short trip like yours doesn’t promise much when searching out these beautiful fish. Good luck tho.

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There are a few places that do not require 8 hour hikes. More like 15 minutes or less. (These places should be held dear, but they do not hold large goldens-if there are such a thing). Some of these are roads approaching the Kern River drainage and some of the Sierra mountain pass roads. Mail me directly and I can give you a little more info. -Don M.

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Matt     It has been a few years but about 30-40  miles north of Bishop is a lake called convict lake. It’s fising used to be outstanding. Hike above this lake they say about 3 miles and you come to some very high mountain lakes that used to have golden trout. I tried this hike once with may not so good leg and never reached these lakes but am told they are there and seen them on the maps.

There are quite a few lakes in this area along the eastern slope of the Sierra that are about the same distance from a lake that you can drive to.  Go up over Piute pass (out of Rock Creek) and you’ll get into some good Golden Trout country as well.  In the June Lake area Gibbs and Kidney lake are about the same distance *up* as the lake above Convict lake.  There are some golden trout lakes in the Mammoth Lakes and 20 Lakes Basin (near Saddlebag Lake). I even know of a lake that you can drive to that is a bit further north that has Golden trout in it. I’m a bit reluctant to provide a lot of details about a lot of these places however.  I wouldn’t have hesitated about 3-4 years ago but with the commercialization of the net I’m afraid that I’d see a pay-per-view web site or a 1-900 number with all the Golden trout lakes for anyone (and everyone) to use to find these spots.   — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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As you probably know, Goldens live above the 10,500 foot range.  I’ve fished for them quite a bit in the eastern Sierra. All the trips required at least a 8 hour hike in to get beyond the rainbows and brookies.  A short trip like yours doesn’t promise much when searching out these beautiful fish. Good luck tho.

As I said, I know of one lake that contains goldens that can be reach by vehicle with sufficient ground clearance.  I also know of several others that require no more then an hour hike.  None of these are going to be high producers.  I would guess that none of these lakes are higher then 10,500′ in elevation either.  I’m not so sure that 10.5K or even 10K is some sort of magic number for Sierra Goldens. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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Stuff Deleted… As I said, I know of one lake that contains goldens that can be reach by vehicle with sufficient ground clearance.  I also know of several others that require no more then an hour hike.  None of these are going to be high producers.  I would guess that none of these lakes are higher then 10,500′ in elevation either.  I’m not so sure that 10.5K or even 10K is some sort of magic number for Sierra Goldens. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Elevation isn’t the determining factor, as you have said. It’s the temp. and cleanness of the water. It’s just that you tend to find both at higher elevations. It also seems that you are fishing the same places I am. Please don’t post the locations. It took me years of hiking and searching to find these places. I would hate to see them become the next hot spot to go fly fishing. Darryl Hayashida

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AdFirmOne sandbags: : As you probably know, Goldens live above the 10,500 foot range.  I’ve : fished for them quite a bit in the eastern Sierra. All the trips required : at least a 8 hour hike in to get beyond the rainbows and brookies.  A : short trip like yours doesn’t promise much when searching out these : beautiful fish. Good luck tho. Nice try- Do you think the Kern is at 10.5K?  More like 6,000.  Basically, Goldens live in clean, cold water and are very sensitive to environmental impact.  There really is no altitude limit, as evidenced by their presence in many lakes and streams throughout the easter sierras.  Sure, you can hike to lakes at 9,000-10,000 ft. and catch goldens.  In fact, the DFG uses some remote lakes around cottonwood pass for hatcheries (*DO NOT* fish at these lakes- it’s illegal).  However, this does not mean that goldens aren’t found at lower elevations.  Many streams are within a few hours hike, and some lakes have parking lots a few miles from the shore- both contain goldens. Get a topo, and call some fly shops in the bishop area. Best regards, Hans — "The worst monotonous drone coming from a lectern or the most eye-splitting textbook written in turgid English is nothing in comparison to the psychological Sahara that starts right in your bedroom and spurns the horizon."         -Joseph Brodsky, from "In praise of Boredom"          delivered as a commencement address at Dartmouth College. Hans T.H. Beernink, Department of Biochemistry, University of Vermont

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Question:

Does anyone know about beaver creek in CA this year or at all? I was there last year late in the summer and the water was realy low. The were a lot of feed bugs in the water, but the water was too low to produce any sizable trout. Any info on the creek would be great. TimFLYFISH Dream of flyfishing, but also let the fish dream. C & R

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Tim, where do you fish Beaver Ck.? in the park or up outa Sourgrass? I would expect the water to be high right now. The Stanislaus at Sourgrass was pretty high and fast a couple weeks ago. As I remember the fish aren’t really big there. This time of the year, due to high, fast water fish close to the river bank. There are some nice holes outa Sourgrass and up the creek where the road crosses Beaver Ck. wish you luck, Bob

: Does anyone know about beaver creek in CA this year or at all? I was there : last year late in the summer and the water was realy low. The were a lot : of feed bugs in the water, but the water was too low to produce any : sizable trout. Any info on the creek would be great. : TimFLYFISH : Dream of flyfishing, but also let the fish dream. C & R —  Remember amateur astronomers: "keep looking for the next Universe"

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Question:

I’m new.  I’ll get that out of the way now.  I’ve been working on my cast all winter and think it’s passable – we’ll see once I get on the water.   But, my biggest question is how to know what type of fly to use.  Dry or a nymph?  If a nymph, should it be floating or sinking?  Can anyone recommend a good book on the matter?  I’ve seen lots of books full of fly patterns but that’s about it.  I’d like any info you can give on matching the hatch and choosing the fly.                   Thanks,                 T O D D . . .

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: : I’m new.  I’ll get that out of the way now.  I’ve been working on my cast : : all winter and think it’s passable – we’ll see once I get on the water.   : : But, my biggest question is how to know what type of fly to use.  Dry or : : a nymph?  If a nymph, should it be floating or sinking?  Can anyone : : recommend a good book on the matter?  I’ve seen lots of books full of fly : : patterns but that’s about it.  I’d like any info you can give on matching : : the hatch and choosing the fly.   : Everyone has their own favorites, but you can really get by with a very : few different flies most of the time. Get a copy of Datus Propter’s : "What the Trout Said" for a nice, well thought out approach to : simplified fly selection. Or listen to me As for what to use, the beginning rule of thumb is (I think): if you see fish rising (especially if they rise and leave a bubble in the middle of the rise form) use a dry fly; if you don’t, use a nymph. Most of the feeding fish do is on the bottom on nymphs.  The exceptions are usually visible. One exception to this "rule": When it’s hot, and you’re fishing a stream with brush or grass overhanging it, use hoppers and ants.  These can be fished either wet OR dry, and work both ways! As for favorite flys, mine are:         pattern                                 sizes wooly worm (black with grizzly hackle)          4,6,8,10 soft hackle (I like green floss bodies)         10,12,14,16 elk hair caddis                                 6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22 adams                                           10,12,14,16,18,20 black ants                                      10,12,14,16,18,20 If I could only pick 4, I’d leave out the soft hackle.  I tie up these patterns in these sizes.  For the caddis pattern, I use different colored bodies and tie some palmered and some with just dry-fly style hackles.  I have never left the stream without catching fish (provided the water was over 50 degrees). This collection of flys is so versatile it’s amazing.  My single favorite is the caddis. Have fun! — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster

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: 3 Words: "Ask the locals" : Frankie Yeah, but they always lie.    :-) –jim

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Thanks to all for the great advice.  I’m looking forward to using some of the patterns when the time comes.                 T O D D . . .

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I have one other bit of advice to add to the guys who said "ask the locals", that is to use the KISS rule of thumb;  keep it simple stupid (no disrespect intended. As a guide in Montana ans Alaska for over 15 year now, the KISS rule usually works for me.  Everything else is either fun or a pain in the ass – depending on your personal tastes.  There are a few patterns that have worked for me from Argentina to AK though. Elk Hair Caddis, Wulff patterns, lightly dressed Blue Dun patterns, small, simple midge patterns like the Griffiths Gant or the Bi-Visible, Pheasant Tail Nymph, Wooley Bugger, Egg Sucking Leach (pretty huh?), Bitch Creek, and olive and brown Damsel and Dragon Fly nymph patterns. Top drys-Caddis and Gnats, sub surface-small Wooley Buggers and Bitch Creeks. I saw some mis-info in the other noter to you about such things as buble rises and – well- it would take too long, but there is a video by, I think 3M with a guy named Gary Borger that explains the methodology of what to trout fish and when better than any other.

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I would like to suggest reading the late Charles E. Brooks’ book THE TROUT AND THE STREAM as a good introduction to fly selection.  You might also Fly Fisherman magazine helpful.

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I posted my favorite three flies a few times (elk hair caddis, adams, wooly worm, black ant—I can’t count very well).  On thinking about it, I’ve decided that "what fly should I use?" is the wrong question.  "How should I fish my fly?" is the right one. I like the above flies because you can fish them many, many different ways.  On a dead drift, an elk-hair passes for a mayfly, with twitches it looks like an emerger, skittered it looks like a caddis, plopped down and retrieved in short jerks it looks like a hopper, wet it looks like a minnow, or a crawdad, or god only knows what.  Very versatile.  The same is true with the others (with the possible exception of the adams, which is why I would omit it if I could only have three patterns). The important things are: 1. action 2. size 3. color 4. pattern at least that’s true in my experience under most conditions.  Note that pattern is last. — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster

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I fished the West branch of the Penobscot in Maine, way up by the dam, and I drew blanks all week despite the huge stoneflies and loads of caddis. This was the last week of the season. On the final day, I slammed together a primitive version of the Madame X, drawing on my memories of fishing small ponds for big bluegills. I started catching fish. Maybe the landlocked salmon thought it was a drowning stonefly in the rapids. But whatever was in their pea-sized brains, it made a barren week worthwhile. LeDun

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It’s a great question—but not an easy answer. find out what the basic flys are in your area;adams, royal wulff, any dun (PMD,BWO etc) or in a nymph; hare’s ear, Pheasant tail, prince.  Then go down to your local fishing store and ask the guy (or gal) what else is working. Don’t forget to ask what size. He will Give you both Drys and nymphs and If he really wants to sell flys a emerger or two. Now head down to your fishing hole and instead of getting all worked up about catching big old fish sit down, and watch the water.  If you are lucky enough, you will see a rise. Try to figure out what the fish are eating.  Try and get as close as you can with what you have.  Just like life – think about your choices. If what the guy at the fishing store was wrong, try your basics. If that doesn’t work get a beer or spring for a guide. As for matching the hatch.  It use to be that the ORVIS CATALOG was great to learn the flys but now that they are selling cars Try Dan BAILEYS in LIVINGSTON MT. ORVIS does fhave a little book that might work for you- tight lines

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3 Words: "Ask the locals" Frankie

The Madame X is a productive fly on trout to sunfish across the country.   Wyatt

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Question:

: I’m thinking about a first trip to the San Juan this fall or next spring. : When’s the best dry fly fishing? Chris, Absolutely the best dry fly fishing I ever had on the San Juan was in mid-September a few years back over a Pale Morning Dun hatch.  I have been back a few years at the same time but have never caught it that way again. Baetis and midges hatch pretty much anytime conditions are right (overcast) regardless of time of year. Plan to fish some nymphs. Chuck

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I’m thinking about a first trip to the San Juan this fall or next spring. When’s the best dry fly fishing? Chris Long Long Island, New York

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