Question:

    i think the problem lies with bad leader material.  leaders "age", and become absurdly brittle and weak, even in packaging.  the damn stuff has probably been on the shelf at wallyworld for five or six years.  go to a decent specialty shop and get new leader material.     otherwise, i think it’s your knots.  i have desperately tried to snap flies off on the back cast, and i just can’t do it.  hell, maybe you just have a special talent…

Excuse me, may I help you?  Oh, I see.  Well, you turned left into "Leader Minutia" by mistake.  Go back down the hallway you came up, make a left by the drinking fountain, head for the sign that says "Actually Fishing Outdoors", and then past the restrooms, and right into "Turning A Nice Phrase".  Don’t mention it, have a nice day.

Response:

 Check your leader often, especially if you see a messy cast.

hmmm….this will be bad news for anyone fishing with me… you boys’ll be doin a whole lot of leader checks… jeff (purely messy)

Response:

…from my experience, cloning ain’t required…damned things are everywhere already…and around water? well, you probably haven’t seen the movie and don’t know the reproductive methods of gremlins, but…let’s just say it doesn’t look good for fisherpeople… jeff (creator of "the gremlin defense" – royalties required, unauthorized use or duplication will be punishable by law, bycracky) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … gremlins…….caught a glimpse of one once…looked sorta like a tiny waldo-wolfgang thing….. Nasty little buggers from all I’ve heard. Wolfgang and the BAD news is we got the technology to clone!      

Response:

It might be that the back cast is low enough to actually hit the water or the ground, then there’s no need for special talents to break off the fly. Most of the guys that I’ve helped with their casting technique had one common problem, their back cast was way too low. But for this problem to appear again and again, I would also guess that the leader is the problem. /Roger

I agree with both points. I have occasionally broken the hook off the fly by letting it hit the rocks behind me. What really makes that a great trick is to continue fishing with the hookless fly. Makes it a bit more of a sporting challenge! Bob — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

By the way, I live in McKinney about 30 miles or so north of Dallas. Thanks again, Nick Wright

Dale gave you an excellent tip re: the FWFF event in September, and what sounded suspiciously like an invite to Backwoods for the Roadkill Roundup.  You could gain quite a bit by attending either, and moreso by attending both.  If you’d like, drop me an email, and I’ll try to provide as much "local" info as I can. TC, R

Response:

Check your leader often, especially if you see a messy cast. Remove the overhand knots before they tighten.  Don’t delay cutting knots out of the leader and rebuilding it.

Great advice! I saved a lot of time and frustration once I started noticing my messy casts right away and dealing with it before it became an unmanageable mess.  You can untangle things (usually) fairly easily if you stop casting right away. A guide told me the minute rule (ok, maybe 30 seconds)…if you can’t fix it in under (a minute), then cut and redo… you’ll save time, be happier and get your fly on the water… which is the only way you can catch fish. — Rob (of course, fixing messy casting is another problem alltogether…)

Response:

Nick,     Ssounds to me like the whole outfit has been sitting around for a long time…I don’t know why floating line would sink rapidly unless it was old…..Also, there are several sites you can visit to learn to tie different types of knots, buy books, post messages, buy equipment, etc. http://www.flyanglersonline.com/   they have a beginners’ section http://www.thejump.net/fishing/fishing.html  fishin’ knots & other things And here are some links that may be helpful: http://flyfishing.miningco.com/ http://www.njflyfishing.com/ http://www.roundrocks.com/rocks/html/misc.html I’m sure all the others here can also help you a lot…keep at it, ask a lot of questions & PRACTICE!!! Graden

Response:

… gremlins…….caught a glimpse of one once…looked sorta like a tiny waldo-wolfgang thing…..

Nasty little buggers from all I’ve heard. Wolfgang and the BAD news is we got the technology to clone!      

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could it be that you’re snapping the fly off on the backcast? If you put too much energy into it you can crack the line like a whip, and the fly goes hell knows where. Bob Just what I was thinking.  Put a little mark with a marker on the knot and tippet just above the fly to determine if this is happening if you can’t easily tell.  Does it appear, by looking at the tippet end, if the knot is untying, or is the end, once the fly is gone, a "clean" end? Where in N. Texas are you located?  If you’re near the DFW area, there are a number of instructors (Main Street Outfitters, in FW, for one), and a couple of FFing clubs that might provide some help.  IMO, instruction, particularly professional instruction, will provide dividends beyond the cost incurred (see a recent related thread on this very topic).  If you are comfortable with doing so, reply with a general location – there are several regulars in the general Fort Worth-Dallas <G area. TC, R

Thanks for all the advice. Thinking back on it, this may very well be what I was doing. I had not thought about it before. But that would explain why the leader looked as though it had been cut rather than the knot simply coming undone. I’m going to get all new line for my rod. The "floating fly line" that came with it sinks very rapidly, and it did not come with backing. So I’ll buy some new lines and leaders (hopefully this will help a little) and I’ll continue practicing my casting. Another question semi-related. I’m going to buy the leaders that come tapered instead of tying my own, in this case how necessary is it to have a tippet? By the way, I live in McKinney about 30 miles or so north of Dallas. Thanks again, Nick Wright

Response:

Another question semi-related. I’m going to buy the leaders that come tapered instead of tying my own, in this case how necessary is it to have a tippet?

Knotless tapered leaders are good, but you will definitely need to get some tippet.  Every time you tie on a fly you’re going to lose some material and by tying on some tippet you can delay replacing the leader.  I remember when I was starting out – I ended up changing leaders quite often until I solved my tailing loops (if you see lots of overhand knots all through your leader you are throwing a tailing loop) in which case adding tippet is not as big an issue<g.  Check your leader often, especially if you see a messy cast. Remove the overhand knots before they tighten.  Don’t delay cutting knots out of the leader and rebuilding it. What length and weight leader/tippet to use is an important question.  For most of the fishing I do (panfish, small bass, small trout) I get by with a 7 foot 4x tapered leader with 4x and/or 5x tippet added on.  I carry spools or 4x through 7x tippet for modifying the end of the leader as needed. –Stan

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As a newbie of one year My most difficult time learning  was trying to forget I didn’t have a spinning rod with weights Easy does it grasshopper. Let the rod and line do the work — Fly Fisherman With a Furless Naked Cat named Dub.

Response:

that come tapered instead of tying my own, in this case how necessary is it to have a tippet? By the way, I live in McKinney about 30 miles or so north of Dallas.

I live in Plano. You need to buy a spool of tippet material. When fishing for bluegill around here I simply buy a 7.5 foot tapered 3x leader and immediately tie on a couple of feet of 4x tippet material. The waters we fish have so much stuff growing in the water that you gather a bowl of salad on each knott on a regular basis. By the time you leave a couple of flies in trees and snap a couple of flies off on the casts and change flies a couple of times you will need to replace the tippet with another couple of feet of tippet. It is no problem as a roll of tippet material lasts for a couple of years anyway and it is a good idea to replace it every couple of years anyway. BTW the Roadkill Roundtable meets each Saturday morning to tie flies and tell lies at Backwoods in the southeast corner of Campbell and Coit in Richardson. Come join us for a bs session anytime you want.We are a kind of a splinter group of The Dallas Flyfisher Club and the guys that work at the shop are always available to answer any questions. Ron manages the shop and Marshal works there and they are very knowledgable. Big Dale

Response:

nick – you’ve gotten plenty of good opinions, but you’ll soon discover the truth… gremlins.  damn things been plaguing all aspects of my flyfishing.  caught a glimpse of one once…looked sorta like a tiny waldo-wolfgang thing. they can tie knots in the tippet, snag flies in trees, pull rod tips into closing doors or ceiling fans, push you down into the water in front of your fishing companions just as you’re stepping into a stream…oh the horrors you’re in for now!!  you’ll love every moment – well, most of em. (my opinion… big fly, light or bad tippet, too powerful snapping and too soon on the forward casting stroke.) jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart since I’ve been wanting to try flyfishing. I’ve just about got the knack of fly casting (at least short distances), by practicing in my yard with a small piece of cloth tied on. My question is this, I took it out to the water tonight to give it a "real world" go and I ran into a problem. The flies would not stay tied to the leader. I tried the improved clinch and also the double clinch and without fail after about 5-6 casts the fly would be gone. I know that I’m tying these knots correctly. So I’m wondering where the problem can be? The little piece of cloth I’ve used for practice never once came off. Is it possible that the leader that came with the kit is either just really bad or possibly really old? Will getting a new leader solve my problem? Or are clinch knots not the proper way to tie on? Thanks for any advice. Nick Wright

Response:

Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart since I’ve been wanting to try flyfishing. I’ve just about got the knack of fly casting (at least short distances), by practicing in my yard with a small piece of cloth tied on. My question is this, I took it out to the water tonight to give it a "real world" go and I ran into a problem. The flies would not stay tied to the leader. I tried the improved clinch and also the double clinch and without fail after about 5-6 casts the fly would be gone. I know that I’m tying these knots correctly. So I’m wondering where the problem can be? The little piece of cloth I’ve used for practice never once came off. Is it possible that the leader that came with the kit is either just really bad or possibly really old? Will getting a new leader solve my problem? Or are clinch knots not the proper way to tie on? Thanks for any advice. Nick Wright

Response:

Could it be that you’re snapping the fly off on the backcast? If you put too much energy into it you can crack the line like a whip, and the fly goes hell knows where. Bob — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart since I’ve been wanting to try flyfishing. I’ve just about got the knack of fly casting (at least short distances), by practicing in my yard with a small piece of cloth tied on. My question is this, I took it out to the water tonight to give it a "real world" go and I ran into a problem. The flies would not stay tied to the leader. I tried the improved clinch and also the double clinch and without fail after about 5-6 casts the fly would be gone. I know that I’m tying these knots correctly. So I’m wondering where the problem can be? The little piece of cloth I’ve used for practice never once came off. Is it possible that the leader that came with the kit is either just really bad or possibly really old? Will getting a new leader solve my problem? Or are clinch knots not the proper way to tie on? Thanks for any advice. Nick Wright

Response:

Could it be that you’re snapping the fly off on the backcast? If you put too much energy into it you can crack the line like a whip, and the fly goes hell knows where. Bob

Just what I was thinking.  Put a little mark with a marker on the knot and tippet just above the fly to determine if this is happening if you can’t easily tell.  Does it appear, by looking at the tippet end, if the knot is untying, or is the end, once the fly is gone, a "clean" end? Where in N. Texas are you located?  If you’re near the DFW area, there are a number of instructors (Main Street Outfitters, in FW, for one), and a couple of FFing clubs that might provide some help.  IMO, instruction, particularly professional instruction, will provide dividends beyond the cost incurred (see a recent related thread on this very topic).  If you are comfortable with doing so, reply with a general location – there are several regulars in the general Fort Worth-Dallas <G area. TC, R

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart since I’ve been wanting to try flyfishing. I’ve just about got the knack of fly casting (at least short distances), by practicing in my yard with a small piece of cloth tied on. My question is this, I took it out to the water tonight to give it a "real world" go and I ran into a problem. The flies would not stay tied to the leader. I tried the improved clinch and also the double clinch and without fail after about 5-6 casts the fly would be gone. I know that I’m tying these knots correctly. So I’m wondering where the problem can be? The little piece of cloth I’ve used for practice never once came off. Is it possible that the leader that came with the kit is either just really bad or possibly really old? Will getting a new leader solve my problem? Or are clinch knots not the proper way to tie on? Thanks for any advice. Nick Wright

Most likely you are snapping them off.  Untutored beginners frequently show a natural tendency to crack a fly line like a whip.  The correction is a matter of timing.  You are probably starting the forward cast too early and overpowering it, causing the fly to accelerate to supersonic speed in a small fraction of a second….more stress than the tippet can handle.  It didn’t happen with the piece of cloth because it’s greater air resistance simply wouldn’t allow that kind of acceleration.  Watch you back cast.  Don’t start the forward motion until the line extends completely to the rear. If possible, get an experienced caster to coach you.  If not, take lessons or rent videos and practice, practice, practice. Wolfgang

Response:

"Wolfgang Siebeneich" Most likely you are snapping them off.  Untutored beginners frequently show a natural tendency to crack a fly line like a whip.  The correction is a matter of timing.  You are probably starting the forward cast too early and overpowering it, causing the fly to accelerate to supersonic speed in a small fraction of a second….more stress than the tippet can handle.  It didn’t happen with the piece of cloth because it’s greater air resistance simply wouldn’t allow that kind of acceleration.  Watch you back cast.  Don’t start the forward motion until the line extends completely to the rear. If possible, get an experienced caster to coach you.  If not, take lessons or rent videos and practice, practice, practice.

I had virtually the same thing written out to send and then thought I’d check and see if it was already in the thread. What he said! Clark

Response:

Could it be that you’re snapping the fly off on the backcast? If you put too much energy into it you can crack the line like a whip, and the fly goes hell knows where. Bob

Good advice. Is it possible that the leader that came with the kit is either just really bad or possibly really old? Will getting a new leader solve my problem? Or are clinch knots not the proper way to tie on? Thanks for any advice.

The leader could weak. If in doubt, you don’t have to buy a new leader. Buy a spool of 5x tippet and learn to tie about a 18" to 24" piece onto the leader with a double surgeon’s knot. You should be doing that anyway. Cut the leader back to a thicker diameter first. It wouldn’t hurt to replace the whole leader, though. Did you say you paid $20 for this outfit? A decent store-bought leader will cost a quarter of that, but you can tie up your own, after spending more than $20 on materials. Then you can look into buying fly-tying materials, and then you can build your own rods. Eventually, you might build a drift boat and even knit your own waders. The possibilities are endless.

Response:

Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart

    i think the problem lies with bad leader material.  leaders "age", and become absurdly brittle and weak, even in packaging.  the damn stuff has probably been on the shelf at wallyworld for five or six years.  go to a decent specialty shop and get new leader material.     otherwise, i think it’s your knots.  i have desperately tried to snap flies off on the back cast, and i just can’t do it.  hell, maybe you just have a special talent… wayno

Response:

I’ve seen a lot of people do it Wayne. But I agree, the leader is probably shot which exasperates the problem. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart     i think the problem lies with bad leader material.  leaders "age", and become absurdly brittle and weak, even in packaging.  the damn stuff has probably been on the shelf at wallyworld for five or six years.  go to a decent specialty shop and get new leader material.     otherwise, i think it’s your knots.  i have desperately tried to snap flies off on the back cast, and i just can’t do it.  hell, maybe you just have a special talent… wayno

Response:

It might be that the back cast is low enough to actually hit the water or the ground, then there’s no need for special talents to break off the fly. Most of the guys that I’ve helped with their casting technique had one common problem, their back cast was way too low. But for this problem to appear again and again, I would also guess that the leader is the problem. /Roger

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart     i think the problem lies with bad leader material.  leaders "age", and become absurdly brittle and weak, even in packaging.  the damn stuff has probably been on the shelf at wallyworld for five or six years.  go to a decent specialty shop and get new leader material.     otherwise, i think it’s your knots.  i have desperately tried to snap flies off on the back cast, and i just can’t do it.  hell, maybe you just have a special talent… wayno

Response:

I don’t know where you live in North Texas, but you might want to check out an event that the Fort Worth FlyFishers Club is involved with that will happen on Sept 21. It is called the Trinity FlyFest and it will include casting lessons. For more information go to WWW. FortWorth FlyFishers.com. The Dallas club does not have an event scheuled in the near future which includes fly casting lessons because our next event is our annual club auction on Sept.21. You might just t ask at the Dallas Orvis Store. There is usualy someone there that will give any customer some casting tips and demonstration  in their parking lot. It is a lot easier to work these kind of problems in person rather than on the net. Contact me if I can be any help. Big Dale  

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Question:

Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info. Ryan

Response:

Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down.

DAMN!  That’s some fine fishin’ – catchin’ without even casting….<G They were using worms and chopped perch meat.

And if you wanted perch, may I ask why you didn’t do what they were doing? My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend?

Ones that look and smell like worms and chopped perch meat.   Seriously (and yes, I do mean this seriously), why bother, if the goal is catching those perch?  If the goal is simply experimenting to see if it can be done, then, yes, it can, but don’t confuse it with FF’ing (in the "traditional" sense).  It seems if you’re interested in catching perch, you’ve seen what works (and works remarkably well) for catching them.  I guess I don’t understand the desire to catch anything and everything on a fly rod.  Some things just don’t really lend themselves to "flyfishing" (as one normally thinks of FF’ing, and yes, I realize one can rig up something), and IMO, fishing that deep is one of them.  By the time you get rigged, you’re going to essentially combining bait-casting with a fly rod.   I suppose there’s nothing "wrong" with that, but why not just bait-cast with bait-casting gear, or if one is some kind of FF’ing-gear-only snot, just don’t fish for those things and live with the fact that if you’re gonna be a snot, you lose out. To me, it’s sorta like asking, "I saw a Porsche 996 racing on TV.  I have a Suburban/Camry/Ford sedan/Volvo station wagon/(some other unsuited vehicle).  Could I race like that?   Can I do something to my vehicle to make it work?"   Yeah, probably.  But again, why? (assuming the goal is racing, and not converting vehicles)  You can take out a screw with a butter knife and butter toast with a screwdriver, too, but why not just use the most appropriate and best-suited tool(s) for the task at hand? Thanks for the info.

Pretty sure it’s not the info you wanted, but you’re welcome. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ryan

Response:

Well, if my geometry is right your going to have to cast out 53 feet of line to be at a 35 foot depth 35 feet from where you’re standing. Full sinking line? I’d try a clouser or better yet, a pearl chenille bead/cone head wooly buger. john

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Use the 5 wt rod and fish with little streamers. For example in summer at dog days a freind of mine uses a fly called Jule Trae and a sink tip. He always catches some perch. Good luck and tight lines Wim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info. Ryan

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R- Points well taken. Thanks, Ryan -Snip-

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You can take out a screw with a butter knife and butter toast with a screwdriver, too, but why not just use the most appropriate and best-suited tool(s) for

Splendid. And thank you. You’ve covered more than fishing here. Sometimes it’s easy to forget the focus of the job at hand. Drew (with a callused spot on my forehead)

Response:

I don’t know rdean may have somethin’ here.  I have several heavy weight flyrods, but perching on them just doesn’t sound like a good idea. Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can take out a screw with a butter knife and butter toast with a screwdriver, too, but why not just use the most appropriate and best-suited tool(s) for Splendid. And thank you. You’ve covered more than fishing here. Sometimes it’s easy to forget the focus of the job at hand. Drew (with a callused spot on my forehead)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info. Ryan

In that location, worm dunking seems to be your only choice.  However, I’ve caught plenty of perch in the shallows using a two weight and beadhead nymphs.  They take very gently so sight fishing to them in clear water is best.  Small streamers should work too. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical. I don’t guess whether you mean using fly rods on the B.A.S.S. pro tour?

Me feeling is that the fly rod might be the very best tool for the job under most conditions when bass are shallow. When bass are deep, we especially should not fish C&R for them, so this isn’t much of a quandary…. TBone

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I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical. We should not close our eyes to all other kinds of fishing, IMO. The perch are biting here, at Waneka, and I have been out with nightcrawlers and my dachsund Spork for three weekends in a row and we’ve been having a ball.

Um, are you sure Spork likes going out and having a ball with you and nightcrawlers?  If PETA (or, possibly, the Colorado State Police) finds out, you’re in BIG trouble…are you sure it isn’t illegal in Colorado, as it is in a number of the other several States… Oh, wait…did you mean you were FISHING with Spork?  Well, he must be about gone by now, and frankly, that’s pretty mean just for a few perch.  Whoda thunk dachshund were below perch on the food chain….

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<lake washington experiment snipped Drive over to Green Lake and fish dry flies off the pier for landlocked salmon instead. Bring a radio and listen to Niehaus do the Mariners playoff games. Ogle the joggers. Bring a bag of Tim’s Cajun chips. Have an Oberto Cocktail Pep. Bring a buncha BWOs. Watch out for the goose poop. – sid sometimes missing seattle

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…….Bring a bag of Tim’s Cajun chips…….

I knew it.  I just KNEW it!  First it’s fish, then it’s Dachshunds, and now Cajuns.  That’s just wrong!    :( Wolfgang

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…….Bring a bag of Tim’s Cajun chips……. I knew it.  I just KNEW it!  First it’s fish, then it’s Dachshunds, and now Cajuns.  That’s just wrong!    :( Wolfgang

It’s even worse. It is unethical. Herman

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I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical. We should not close our eyes to all other kinds of fishing, IMO. The perch are biting here, at Waneka, and I have been out with nightcrawlers and my dachsund Spork for three weekends in a row and we’ve been having a ball. Your pal, — TBone

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info. Ryan

Response:

I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical. We should not close our eyes to all other kinds of fishing, IMO.

Can’t argue that, but then there’s always the challenge of doing something the hard way The perch are biting here, at Waneka, and I have been out with nightcrawlers and my dachsund Spork for three weekends in a row and we’ve been having a ball.

"Spork", eh? Perfect. /daytripper (I shoulda known

Response:

I knew it.  I just KNEW it!  First it’s fish, then it’s Dachshunds, and now Cajuns.  That’s just wrong!    :(

Dang, I missed it again!  What’s wrong with Dachshunds?

Response:

I knew it.  I just KNEW it!  First it’s fish, then it’s Dachshunds, and now Cajuns.  That’s just wrong!    :( Dang, I missed it again!  What’s wrong with Dachshunds?

Well, aside from a reputed susceptibility to back problems and the usual unsavory canine hygiene practices, not a thing that I can think of.  It’s the Cajuns that stick in my craw. Wolfgang

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  It’s the Cajuns that stick in my craw.

Try cutting them up into smaller pieces, and chewing them a little longer. hth, Kevin, hoping you didn’t misspell "cojones"

Response:

[snip] Well, aside from a reputed susceptibility to back problems and the usual unsavory canine hygiene practices, not a thing that I can think of.  It’s the Cajuns that stick in my craw. Wolfgang

1. Let me report that you may remove the word "reputed" from the above.  I have 2 Dachshunds, 1 with a "slipped disc" that has caused her to lose partial movement in her rear legs. 2. What kind of ‘unsavory canine hygience practices’ could you be referring to?  You mean when they drag all sorts of dead (either that they’ve killed, or just found) rodents to my door?  You mean when they kill a rat and decide to *eat* half of it, and bring me the legs (you know those little bones just irritate their gums)?  You mean smelling around for dog crap and then eating it (no, it never happens, really) if it really smells ‘good’? You mean…well, I think I get the picture… Rob p.s. got a craw stuck in my teeth at the last Cajun festival..:)

Response:

…..got a craw stuck in my teeth at the last Cajun festival..:)

Hm….this could lead to all sorts of recursive ruminations. Wolfgang where’s max smart when you really need him?

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical.

I don’t guess whether you mean using fly rods on the B.A.S.S. pro tour? – — "Armchair warriors often fail, and we’ve been  poisoned by these fairy tales" -Don Henley —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7zSGtrpli/675/DERAlGdAKCDXQHl4/+d80An8f3CJfvXyzMdmACeNJy3 7Gq+de7flkgrCo01m39YZXA= =Ropa —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

The perch are biting here, at Waneka, and I have been out with nightcrawlers and my dachsund Spork for three weekends in a row and we’ve been having a ball.

Sure you can eat perch with a dachshund Spork, but why not use the right tool for the job?

Response:

I don’t know rdean may have somethin’ here.  I have several heavy weight flyrods, but perching on them just doesn’t sound like a good idea. Op

Not in ten feet of water.. but they are a lot of fun to fish for in the shallows! Herman

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info.

well, as others have said, it might be tough reaching where the conventional anglers were fishing with light tackle… but in lake washington there are places to catch them in shallower water. when i was a kid, i was a perch killing maniac at lake washington.  i fished the wooden bridges at the walking trails near the arboreum (you can see them driving the 520 bridge).  i fished small jigs tipped with a chunk of worm, but i don’t doubt that a small white wooley bugger with a conehead, beadhead, or weighted eyes would work.  i did best around some of the sunken timber near the edges…. but it has been awhile.  and i also did best in july and august. give it a shot, and there’s nothing like fishing next to a bridge jammed with rush hour traffic (which now is almost all day). chris

Response:

I wouldn’t fish for them with a fly rod in that situation.  5 weight with a sink tip probably wouldn’t reach them.  Maybe with a Clouser Minnow. In shallow water I’ve caught lots of perch that size with nymphs and small streamers (Clousers, marabou Thundercreeks).  And perch more than twice that size on the streamers.  Fun with a 3 weight. Glenn << My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? << Ryan GKT

Response:

Question:

8< Just wondering what other people do to search out fish. Peter

petah, i like swingin wets myself….. jeff miller uses cherry bombs. <g –walt

Response:

Just wondering what other people do to search out fish.

Soft hackles, upstream quartering at varying depths, works for me in late spring and summer.  In Winter, weighted woolly buggers dragged along the bottom usually produce. In late Summer and Autumn, a large bushy dry fly occasionally skittered over the surface is often very productive. TL MC

Response:

<< the penny dropped that swinging a caddis emerger may be a good searching method when everything else is coming up snake eyes.   << Just wondering what other people do to search out fish. Peter Soft hackles, in a size to match what ought to be hatching, or most common in the stream, if I have a clue what that might be.  Ants in Summer.  Grasshoppers in Summer near meadows.  Murray’s Helgrammite below riffles, just  because it produces a big strike once in a long while.  Ditto a crayfish imitation rolled through rocky areas. The best technique I know is to stay out of the water and watch very carefully.  If fish are feeding, eventually you’ll see some clues.  A brown flash of a side as a fish tears up the bottom; a bulge rise to something drowned near the surface; a white mouth flash in mid-water.   Good luck.  The search is the best part. Glenn GKT

Response:

Soft hackles, in a size to match what ought to be hatching, or most common in the stream, if I have a clue what that might be.  Ants in Summer.  Grasshoppers in Summer near meadows.  Murray’s Helgrammite below riffles, just  because it produces a big strike once in a long while.  Ditto a crayfish imitation rolled through rocky areas.

It’s interesting that I started with soft hackles and they always worked well but the last few years, they’ve produced less for me. Back then, I didn’t have a clue what I was doing and I caught fish on them. Now I know what I am supposed to do and I don’t get much.  There’s a lesson in there somewhere. The best technique I know is to stay out of the water and watch very carefully. If fish are feeding, eventually you’ll see some clues.  A brown flash of a side as a fish tears up the bottom; a bulge rise to something drowned near the surface; a white mouth flash in mid-water.  

About the brown flash – on the Grand, I was doing exactly what you suggest, surveying for any sign of feeding fish.  I saw a flash – then some more.  I nymphed the buggers for close to an hour before hooking an landing one – a sucker!! Good luck.  The search is the best part. Glenn GKT

Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

8< Just wondering what other people do to search out fish. Peter petah, i like swingin wets myself….. jeff miller uses cherry bombs. <g –walt

wally, though it often sounds and looks like a cherry bomb exploding, it’s actually just my "delicate" presentation of a stimulator with a nymph dropper. best searching pattern i know for nc mountain streams… as you know peter, we rarely see the fish we stalk in the streams down here (except on certain delayed harvest waters maybe), and we just toss the fly into the most likely holding areas with eternal optimism and steely anticipation. the range of flies that will entice a fish is also probably smaller down here as well.. jeff

Response:

"So anti-pragmatic is he who searches for his own soul in the shadow of the far bank, where success is not in the creatures he predates upon but in the interludes with fellow stream dwellers, for an exalting dance upon the line and rod, or with reserve upon the palate." — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

"The ancients wrote of the three ages of man; I propose to write of the three ages of the fisherman.  When he wants to catch all the fish he can.  When strives to catch the largest fish.  When he studies to catch the most difficult fish he can find, requiring the greatest skill and most refined tackle, caring more for the sport than the fish." Edward R. Hewitt A Trout and Salmon Fisherman for Seventy-Five Years (1948) — Warren Findley Shut up and fish! For Yellowstone Clave info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/YNP.html

Response:

"The ancients wrote of the three ages of man; I propose to write of the three ages of the fisherman.  When he wants to catch all the fish he can.  When strives to catch the largest fish.  When he studies to catch the most difficult fish he can find, requiring the greatest skill and most refined tackle, caring more for the sport than the fish." Edward R. Hewitt A Trout and Salmon Fisherman for Seventy-Five Years (1948)

Fly-fishing is the most fun you can have standing up.    - Arnold Gingrich, 1969 — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Fly-fishing is the most fun you can have standing up.    - Arnold Gingrich, 1969

"….knowing a river intimately is a very large part of the joy of fly fishing." Roderick L. Haig-Brown A River Never Sleeps (1946)

Response:

"….knowing a river intimately is a very large part of the joy of fly fishing."

Deep down I’ve always known, fly fishing is to the rest of fishing what high seduction is to rape.    - Robert Traver – Trout Magic, 1974 — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

rw quoted: Deep down I’ve always known, fly fishing is to the rest of fishing what high seduction is to rape.    - Robert Traver – Trout Magic, 1974

What a bunch of snobbish hooey. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

What a bunch of snobbish hooey.

It’s just a quote. Take it up with Robert Traver. (Warning: He’s dead.) — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

 (Warning: He’s dead.)

hell, that ain’t never stopped forty in the past….. voelkerdammerung <g –waldo

Response:

Deep down I’ve always known, fly fishing is to the rest of fishing what high seduction is to rape.

"You’re being a psuedointellectual horse’s ass again. This shit is supposed to be FUN." -Heard at a party, 1998. Spoken by a drunk, probably me. "Why can’t everybody else leave everybody else alone?"                               -Hank Junior

Response:

 (Warning: He’s dead.) hell, that ain’t never stopped forty in the past….. voelkerdammerung <g –waldo

"To me heaven would be a big bull ring with me holding two barrera seats and a trout stream outside that no one else was allowed to fish in and two lovely houses in the town; one where I would have my wife and children and be monogamous and love them truly and well and the other where I would have my nine beautiful mistresses on nine different floors.    - Ernest Hemingway (1899-1961) (Note that he’s dead, too) — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Deep down I’ve always known, fly fishing is to the rest of fishing what high seduction is to rape.    - Robert Traver – Trout Magic, 1974

"There is no substitute for fishing sense, and if a man doesn’t have it, verily, he may cast like and angel and still use his creel largely to transport sandwiches and beer." Robert Traver Trout Madness, 1960 — Warren Findley Shut up and fish! For Yellowstone Clave info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/YNP.html

Response:

"You’re being a psuedointellectual horse’s ass again. This shit is supposed to be FUN." -Heard at a party, 1998. Spoken by a drunk, probably me.

"I waded to shore where I sat and considered the inconsistency of anglers in general and the dumbness of one in particular." Ray Bergman Trout, 1949 I think this one would have worked better Mike <g — Warren Findley Shut up and fish! For Yellowstone Clave info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/YNP.html

Response:

"There is no substitute for fishing sense, and if a man doesn’t have it, verily, he may cast like and angel and still use his creel largely to transport sandwiches and beer."

which is a damn good reason to own a creel! –walt….. have creel, will travel.

Response:

After coming back from the Porkies and the AuSable, I spent Friday morning on the Grand.  Conditions were low, cold water, gin clear, high sun and no hatches.  I’ve always found that streamers were not productive in these conditions. Nymphing isn’t the best as high sticking puts you too close to the fish, long line nymphing is lousy for strike detection and then there’s the problem of picking the right run.   On the AuSable, the fish were rising but fussy.  I resorted to swinging a caddis emerger to the risers and ended up doing quite well. I’m sitting here doing not much of anything and the penny dropped that swinging a caddis emerger may be a good searching method when everything else is coming up snake eyes. (On the AuSable, I was swinging to rising fish and not using it as a searching method.) Just wondering what other people do to search out fish. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Question:

Well, Willi…..

This ROFF rant was well worth the price of admission if only to hear T-Bones lounge lizard act. — Ken Fortenberry- kicks shit out of little old lady litterers Illini 1 – Tar Heels 0

Response:

Nope… didn’t rant or rave or attack anyone personally, just attacked the bunch of "cyberbullies" that think everyone else wants to listen to their shit! Besides, I gave everyone a technique as to how they can avoid it…so, no harm- no foul- case in point….I deleted Fornicationberry’s response unread =) Larry #:)#

Response:

I’m sure he’s distressed.<

Actually, I bet he’s pleased that someone actually relates the concept of fornication with his name.  <g

Response:

It is true that I have never seen him engaged in sexual congress, but

he always seemed less obsessed with the concept than some of the others around at the time<g.< Still water runs deep.  <g

Response:

Geeeeze.   I go fishing for a few days, come home and Fortenberry has his own thread and there is a thread about "off topic posts". Didn’t we go down these roads before?  And before that too? What’s left — another C&R/C&K thread, or maybe one about the effin’ Indians stealing from us white folk!  I betcha some dumb sumbitch is gonna ask what the best floatant is! Darwinnian my ass!  Dalwhinnie, maybe.  <g Louie (who is packin’ goin’ fishin’) Dave LaCourse

Response:

Larry,    The filter is a great tool.  There is only one person on this group who I have filtered out all of his posts, but there are many threads where people start in saying things that should be taken to e-mail.  When I see there will be nothing more of value on a thread I filter it.. Ernie Harrison See Ernie’s Fly-Fishing Stuff:   http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 Well, Willi….. <snip Personally, I think anytime someone wants to rant-n-rave, it should be taken to private quarters and left out of the public arena, but the vast majority of these chest thumping testosterone laden hairy palmed individuals think that it’s quite important to make a public display of their idiocy and then look for others to come to their aid, grunting "UnNNNHHH- Me TOO….

<snip Larry #:)# – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Larry While not agreeing completely with your characterization, I will at least own a part of it and back off on some of these threads which frankly get my dander up. Of late there have been too many in that set. To the extent that Ive not seen the humor in a selective charactiture of the US, and my reaction is seen as hatred, I apologize to Christian, Mike and Herman. I will note that the spirit of the Revolutionary Army singing Yankee Doodle Dandy at Yorktown was reportedly very high and even our Polish, German, Irish and French officers joined in. Humor gentleman, humor. As to the Native American thread, which relates directly to the laws and history of the US, I am honestly appalled at the degree of ignorance expressed on ROFF for which I find no excuse in a group of my countryman with such nominally high educational levels. Racial considerations have been an element in our history from the start. Im no saint in this regard. What I find particularly chilling is the "reasonableness" of expression of this ignorance by nominally good men. I also note that the Southerners among us and some of those from the older parts of the US seem in general a bit more perceptive of where such ignorance leads. So maybe the lessons of our history are not lost. In any case Im taking a time out from the more controversial threads, and going to stick to FFing for a bit. Hope that helps. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nope… didn’t rant or rave or attack anyone personally, just attacked the bunch of "cyberbullies" that think everyone else wants to listen to their shit! Besides, I gave everyone a technique as to how they can avoid it…so, no harm- no foul- case in point….I deleted Fornicationberry’s response unread =) Larry #:)#

Response:

Nope… didn’t rant or rave or attack anyone personally, … ….I deleted Fornicationberry’s response unread =)

Well, I’ll take at face value your assertion that you didn’t attack anyone personally and conclude from your last line that you were just flexing your intellectual muscle. That’s so cute, and such a BIG word too, I sure am proud of you sweetheart. You keep working real hard and one of these days you’ll get out of fifth grade and be able to play with the big boys too. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 2 – Tar Heels 0

Response:

As to the Native American thread, which relates directly to the laws and history of the US, I am honestly appalled at the degree of ignorance expressed on ROFF for which I find no excuse in a group of my countryman with such nominally high educational levels. Racial considerations have been an element in our history from the start. Im no saint in this regard. What I find particularly chilling is the "reasonableness" of expression of this ignorance by nominally good men.

Well said. I too grow weary. I said in another thread that there were two almost equally distasteful options, ignore racist posts or set to with the racists. As it turns out most of the racists are good guys that just don’t know any better. I’ve drawn my line in the sand. Everyone here should know by now where I stand. This brouhaha has tipped the scale of "almost equally distasteful" back to where I think it better to ignore racist posts. I don’t know what posessed me to think it better to tilt at the other side of the scale other than frustration and an inflated sense of my own poor powers of persuasion. I do appreciate all the supportive email and the kind words from "lurkers" and Europeans alike. And a quick note to Harry Mason, we are in 100% agreement. Throwing out the race card IS an attempt to end the discussion. Sure as hell don’t work around here though. Native Americans are NOT the problem, but they sure make convenient scapegoats. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 2 – Tar Heels 0

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As to the Native American thread, which relates directly to the laws and history of the US, I am honestly appalled at the degree of ignorance expressed on ROFF for which I find no excuse in a group of my countryman with such nominally high educational levels. Racial considerations have been an element in our history from the start. Im no saint in this regard. What I find particularly chilling is the "reasonableness" of expression of this ignorance by nominally good men. Well said. I too grow weary. I said in another thread that there were two almost equally distasteful options, ignore racist posts or set to with the racists. As it turns out most of the racists are good guys that just don’t know any better. I’ve drawn my line in the sand. Everyone here should know by now where I stand. This brouhaha has tipped the scale of "almost equally distasteful" back to where I think it better to ignore racist posts. I don’t know what posessed me to think it better to tilt at the other side of the scale other than frustration and an inflated sense of my own poor powers of persuasion. I do appreciate all the supportive email and the kind words from "lurkers" and Europeans alike. And a quick note to Harry Mason, we are in 100% agreement. Throwing out the race card IS an attempt to end the discussion. Sure as hell don’t work around here though. Native Americans are NOT the problem, but they sure make convenient scapegoats. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 2 – Tar Heels 0

Americans ARE the problem and killers of the extraordinary amount of America’s Wildlife they are plundering. What part of this is racist and what part of this problem don’t you understand Ken? This IS A REALITY CHECK. You understand – Check this line. You Don’t Understand – Check this line. — Mr. G.   http://www.gink.com/html  Fly Fisherman’s Chat Site   "Flyfisherman’s Camp Fires Burning" http://www.gink.com http://www.rodbuilding.com http://www.xink.com

Question:

Hi I am going to the flyfishing retailer show in Salt Lake City in mid September and want to go fishing for a couple of days. Can anyone recommend a good spot, and also a decent place to stay, not too expensive ($30 or so) Tight lines!

Response:

The Provo River can fish well at times!!  The Green, but it is a bit of a drive. Good Luck, Forrest Forrest FlyFishingREVIEW.com Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Try the Provo river supposed to be second only to the Green in Utah

Response:

Two weeks ago the Provo was running to high to fish very well.  I think the Green would be best.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try the Provo river supposed to be second only to the Green in Utah

Response:

Get out a map. When I went to school in Provo an elephants age ago, we filled our freezer with Browns from the Spanish Fork, at the south end of Utah Valley, and in the creek off the highway that runs down into Helper and the Utah coal country. There is an "American Fork" toward the north end of the Valley, that used to be pretty good too. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Two weeks ago the Provo was running to high to fish very well.  I think the Green would be best. Try the Provo river supposed to be second only to the Green in Utah

Response:

I’ve fished the Provo River twice, in the lower tailwater section. Lots of fish, mostly nymph fishing.  Good size fish. Beautiful scenery.   The Sept. 99 issue of Fly Fisherman has a comprehensive article on the Provo.   Steve Kling

Response:

I live in Salt Lake City, Utah and have flyfished for years if you want info email me directly Mike Holtum

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve fished the Provo River twice, in the lower tailwater section. Lots of fish, mostly nymph fishing.  Good size fish. Beautiful scenery. The Sept. 99 issue of Fly Fisherman has a comprehensive article on the Provo. Steve Kling

Response:

Question:

Check out Orvis’ Henry’s Fork.  I wouldn’t usually rec. Orvis gear because it’s so overpriced, but you can get a package, including reel and line, for $150 bucks.  I’ve had mine about a year and a half, use it all the time, it’s great.  Nice for small streams here in the East. Steve

Response:

I would check some shops for a demo/used Sage DS 8′-6" 5 wt.  That was my first rod and has been great.  I saw one in a shop in Denver for $70 ($140 including reel, line, and case) the other day.  That is a steal for a $200 rod and will last forever.  You may eventually get new and fancier rods, but you probably will keep this one as well.  Good luck.  Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was guessing that maybe I could start out with a 8′ to 8′5"  5 weight rod… What would be a decent/good rod make for under $150.00.  I’m just looking for something that will catch fish w/o falling apart….. for at least a few seasons!! Thanks, Todd

Response:

Still prefer the feel of cane and glass though!

That’s what I want…an old Berkley Parametric Glass…if you see one…. — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

Response:

Still prefer the feel of cane and glass though! That’s what I want…an old Berkley Parametric Glass…if you see one…. — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

Heh, Tim We sold them back in the ’60s and they competed with the Fenwick glass rods. I had an 8′ #5, an 8′6"#6 and a 9′3"#9. They were great casting rods. My brother inherited mine and still fishes with them. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

[deleted] We sold them back in the ’60s and they competed with the Fenwick glass rods. I had an 8′ #5, an 8′6"#6 and a 9′3"#9. They were great casting rods. My brother inherited mine and still fishes with them.

I am serious as death….if you see one…at a garage sale or whatever…please pick it up for me. — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

Response:

THe St. Croix Pro Graphite line, priced at about $70-80 each are an excellent choice for starter rods……even for long-term use rods. Check the grip carefully, the first one I got had a lot of "fill" in the cork, and over a period of a week’s use, the fill came out of the grip. Local dealer was happy to exchange it, and the replacement rod has made it through 3 well enough to get a 7-1/2 4/5 wt also. I’ve been fly fishing for over 30 yrs, SWORE I’d never go graphite…mainly because of the difference in the feel of the rod, also because of the ludicrous prices, but I’m glad I got these. Still prefer the feel of cane and glass though! Larry #:)#

Response:

The St Croix Imperial is a moderate-fast action rod that casts great for the price.  You can get the two piece version from Cabela’s for about $110 and the four piece version from stores for about $150. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello,   I’m just starting to ponder into Fly Fishing and was wondering if anyone could/would suggest a rod to start out with.  My primary fishing will be for small trout, Crappie, Perch and the occasional small "largemouth" Bass on small lakes.  I’ll be fishing from docks, shorelines with not much room for backcasts and from a canoe.  Much of the shoreline terrain has overgrowth, deadwood, stumps etc. Lots of places to get your line hung up….  I was guessing that maybe I could start out with a 8′ to 8′5"  5 weight rod… What would be a decent/good rod make for under $150.00.  I’m just looking for something that will catch fish w/o falling apart….. for at least a few seasons!! Thanks, Todd

Response:

Hello,    I’m just starting to ponder into Fly Fishing and was wondering if anyone could/would suggest a rod to start out with.  My primary fishing will be for small trout, Crappie, Perch and the occasional small "largemouth" Bass on small lakes.  I’ll be fishing from docks, shorelines with not much room for backcasts and from a canoe.  Much of the shoreline terrain has overgrowth, deadwood, stumps etc. Lots of places to get your line hung up….  I was guessing that maybe I could start out with a 8′ to 8′5"  5 weight rod… What would be a decent/good rod make for under $150.00.  I’m just looking for something that will catch fish w/o falling apart….. for at least a few seasons!! Thanks, Todd

Response:

Cortland, Reddington, Scientific Anglers, and Cabela’s all have very good starter rods.  I’m sure others will have suggestions, too.  I have cast all of the above and find all up to the task for which you would like to use them.  From what you say you would like to catch, maybe the 8 ft. 5 or 6 wgt. outfit would suffice.   Good Luck! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello,    I’m just starting to ponder into Fly Fishing and was wondering if anyone could/would suggest a rod to start out with.  My primary fishing will be for small trout, Crappie, Perch and the occasional small "largemouth" Bass on small lakes.  I’ll be fishing from docks, shorelines with not much room for backcasts and from a canoe.  Much of the shoreline terrain has overgrowth, deadwood, stumps etc. Lots of places to get your line hung up….  I was guessing that maybe I could start out with a 8′ to 8′5"  5 weight rod… What would be a decent/good rod make for under $150.00.  I’m just looking for something that will catch fish w/o falling apart….. for at least a few seasons!! Thanks, Todd

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello,    I’m just starting to ponder into Fly Fishing and was wondering if anyone could/would suggest a rod to start out with.  My primary fishing will be for small trout, Crappie, Perch and the occasional small "largemouth" Bass on small lakes.  I’ll be fishing from docks, shorelines with not much room for backcasts and from a canoe.  Much of the shoreline terrain has overgrowth, deadwood, stumps etc. Lots of places to get your line hung up….  I was guessing that maybe I could start out with a 8′ to 8′5"  5 weight rod… What would be a decent/good rod make for under $150.00.  I’m just looking for something that will catch fish w/o falling apart….. for at least a few seasons!! Thanks, Todd

     My favorite fly rod/set up for overhanging tree/brushy banks is a 6 1/2′ Shakespear 4/5wt mod.number FY1310A fitted with an Orvis clearwater 5/6 reel and wf5f line. With this setup I’ve caught 4lb and up rainbows in N.C. small Brookies in VT. and panfish and bass in Fl. Reel, line and backing installed was about $85.00, the rod I bought at sears on sale for less than $30.00. By the way the rod had no reel seat nut. I called service and they shipped ups a new butt section. I told them I had been useing the rod over 2 yrs with a hose clamp. It worked fine that way but I need to break it down and remove/install the reel easily during my next trip as I am taking a small car rather than the van or motor home.                                                            John Popp                                                        in Sanford fl.

Response:

Question:

I need help on how to catch a bullfrog…any suggestions? I mean serious suggestions.

Get a fishing fly.  One with a hook in it.  Tie it to a piece of monofiliment.  Tie the other end to a long pole.  Twitch it in front of him.  When he grabs it, jerk the pole to set the hook.  Then unhook him and let him go.         Bill

Response:

I need help on how to catch a bullfrog…any suggestions? I mean serious suggestions. We bought this thing as a tadpole when he was all cute and cuddly(and quiet). Seeing as how we have poststamp size lots where I live, this frog is becoming hated by the neighborhood(along with me). I don’t want to here how nice they sound and I won’t kill him. He will go to a wetland where he belongs. Thanks Faith H.

 The flashlight should work. It does blind them and if your quiet, you should be able to catch him. Steve Johnson http://lornet.com/~alside

Response:

I need help on how to catch a bullfrog…any suggestions? I mean serious suggestions. We bought this thing as a tadpole when he was all cute and cuddly(and quiet). Seeing as how we have poststamp size lots where I live, this frog is becoming hated by the neighborhood(along with me). I don’t want to here how nice they sound and I won’t kill him. He will go to a wetland where he belongs. Thanks

Don’t worry!  I doubt if you’ll get flamed for wanting to relocate a recalcitrant bullfrog.  Although this technique is usually used by people who intend to eat the bullfrog, therefore gentleness is not an issue, the method I’ve heard is to "blind" them with a flash light.   Then you could slap a net over it.  I’m not saying this will be easy!! — Signed- Kellie  USDA zone 7/8, Sunset Zone 33 My Karma Ran Over My Dogma.  It was a Catastrophe. Now my Dogma’s Dead and my Karma’s out of alignment. Get in KNEE DEEP!  <http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/newsletter.html

Response:

I need help on how to catch a bullfrog…any suggestions? I mean serious suggestions. We bought this thing as a tadpole when he was all cute and cuddly(and quiet). Seeing as how we have poststamp size lots where I live, this frog is becoming hated by the neighborhood(along with me). I don’t want to here how nice they sound and I won’t kill him. He will go to a wetland where he belongs. Thanks Faith H.

Response:

I need help on how to catch a bullfrog…any suggestions? I mean serious suggestions.

Get a fishing fly.  One with a hook in it.  Tie it to a piece of monofiliment.  Tie the other end to a long pole.  Twitch it in front of him.  When he grabs it, jerk the pole to set the hook.  Then unhook him and let him go.         Bill

Response:

I need help on how to catch a bullfrog…any suggestions? I mean serious suggestions. We bought this thing as a tadpole when he was all cute and cuddly(and quiet). Seeing as how we have poststamp size lots where I live, this frog is becoming hated by the neighborhood(along with me). I don’t want to here how nice they sound and I won’t kill him. He will go to a wetland where he belongs. Thanks Faith H.

 The flashlight should work. It does blind them and if your quiet, you should be able to catch him. Steve Johnson http://lornet.com/~alside

Response:

I need help on how to catch a bullfrog…any suggestions? I mean serious suggestions. We bought this thing as a tadpole when he was all cute and cuddly(and quiet). Seeing as how we have poststamp size lots where I live, this frog is becoming hated by the neighborhood(along with me). I don’t want to here how nice they sound and I won’t kill him. He will go to a wetland where he belongs. Thanks

Don’t worry!  I doubt if you’ll get flamed for wanting to relocate a recalcitrant bullfrog.  Although this technique is usually used by people who intend to eat the bullfrog, therefore gentleness is not an issue, the method I’ve heard is to "blind" them with a flash light.   Then you could slap a net over it.  I’m not saying this will be easy!! — Signed- Kellie  USDA zone 7/8, Sunset Zone 33 My Karma Ran Over My Dogma.  It was a Catastrophe. Now my Dogma’s Dead and my Karma’s out of alignment. Get in KNEE DEEP!  <http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/newsletter.html

Response:

I need help on how to catch a bullfrog…any suggestions? I mean serious suggestions. We bought this thing as a tadpole when he was all cute and cuddly(and quiet). Seeing as how we have poststamp size lots where I live, this frog is becoming hated by the neighborhood(along with me). I don’t want to here how nice they sound and I won’t kill him. He will go to a wetland where he belongs. Thanks Faith H.

Response:

Question:

An all too typical novice question: Present tackle is mainly spinning gear. light rod/reel, 6lb line, used for panfish, trout in samll lakes, bass, etc. Would like to add fly tackle to fish for the same species. Will use the fly tackle here in midwest (SW Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana- lake & small streams) and in Montana, as my son will be in school there(Missoula)and I expect to get there a few times annually. Any recommendations for type, make, budget? What are the better beginner setups? Have looked at Orvis, L.L. Bean catalogs, etc. What do I really need to get started?

Response:

Any recommendations for type, make, budget? What are the better beginner setups? Have looked at Orvis, L.L. Bean catalogs, etc. What do I really need to get started?

Hi Barry I recommend you contact your local fly shop and work with them. Cortland has some nice starter fly rods or you might consider a St.Croix or Reddington. Also ask your local fly shop if they rent rods. Most fly shops do rent equipment and also sell that equipment at the end of the season for a reasonable price. Also if you’ve never fly fished before do yourself a big favor and invest in a casting lesson or two. One hour spent with a casting instructor will save you years of trying to learn by yourself. If your local shop does not have an instructor (not very likely) you can contact the Federation of Fly Fishers and get the name of a Certified instructor near you or the name of the affiliate club near you. If you join the club you can learn from a friend. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products On line catalog – tips & tricks at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -An all too typical novice question: Present tackle is mainly spinning gear. light rod/reel, 6lb line, used for panfish, trout in samll lakes, bass, etc. Would like to add fly tackle to fish for the same species. Will use the fly tackle here in midwest (SW Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana- lake & small streams) and in Montana, as my son will be in school there(Missoula)and I expect to get there a few times annually. Any recommendations for type, make, budget? What are the better beginner setups? Have looked at Orvis, L.L. Bean catalogs, etc. What do I really need to get started?

I’m sure there are some who will disagree, but check the beginner packages in Cabela’s catalog. They also have higher end stuff. When I started 3 years ago, I purchased a 9′ – 6wt. Pfleuger rod and reel combo for about $120.00. It’s a low-budget set-up but quality enough to let you learn to cast and make a halfway smooth transition to a better rod when your ready. If you go buy a $50.00 rod, it will be harder. I’d recommend spending no more than $200.00 for rod, reel, backing, and line if you’re a beginner. A 30 year flyfisher gave me that advice. I still use that rod, it’s great. Have fun. For what it’s worth, TC

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Question:

______DEAR MARTIN:  Someone else is going to have to verify this, but I think I remember hearing someone mention that the U-Tube has an unseen dangerous aspect to it . . . but I don’t remember what it was. Possibly, someone else knows what that dangerous design feature is or if it groundless. George — MZ

Hi George As I recall there was a magazine article in Fly Fisherman in the late 1980’s in which tests were done in a swimming pool with various float tubes. The U Tube seems to be easier to tip over as I remember what I read. Those of you on this group with a better memory than me may know exactly which magazine and when. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At one time, I did some product testing for the Creek Company before they moved to their present location.  I’ve used their tubes and others….and am currently using one that was designed by the Wood River Company in Chico, CA.  I would recommend the Wood River products highly. Barry Brown Hello out there! Is there anyone in this newsgroup, who has experience, or know anything, about a belly boat from Creek Company. The type is an U-form (U-shape, I’m not quite sure about the right word). If you have any information on this boat, I would be happy to hear your opinion. — Martin B. Hedegaard V

Question:

Going Boning June 25 in Mexico….anyone been who’s got a good story or advice? Flies, clothing, fish etc? Looks to be a great trip. Agator

Response:

Was there in March and had a great trip. Flies for bonefish- The Gotcha or Crazy Charlie in light tan with no flash. Permit- the raghead crab in light tan or an epoxi crab in light tan, almost white. Clothing light cotton long sleeve shirts. I used a pair of hospital scrub pants for leg protection with Simms gravel guards and flats wading shoes. Your in for a treat. Good luck. Jack

Response:

Going Boning June 25 in Mexico….anyone been who’s got a good story or advice? Flies, clothing, fish etc? Looks to be a great trip. Agator

Casa Blanca is one of the best flats destinations I have been to.  The lodge, food, service, boats, guides and location are all first class.  You will catch many bones, some tarpon, possibly snook, barracuda and permit. You can use a 7 to 8 weight outfit for bones.  I would use a 9 to 10 weight for tarpon, barracudas and permit.  We like Mastery Bonesfish/Tarpon floating lines for fishing out of a boat in warm climates. We used #6 tan to brown Charlies and Snapping Shrimp for bones.  #2/4 Tan crabs for permit ( Rag Head, Turneffe and McCrab ).  Needle fish flies with wire for barracudas. Tarpon liked 2/0 Seahabits, red/white  and red/yellow Seaducers and  Stu Apte style tarpon flies in orange/grizzly, orange/yellow or Cockroach.  Snook seem to like red/yellow or cockroach colors. I would recommend doing some casting in the wind before you go to get in shape. If you are well equipped with tackle and clothing the guides will really take care of the rest. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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