Question:

A friend is leaving our fishing committee after a number of years. We would like to mark the occasion with a gift. In some ways it is easy you can always find use for a cape, a reel, a fly box, a line, the list is endless… Perhaps a good strong fly box that could take a small inscription would be a permanent reminder, does anyone have any suggestions? — Ellis Morgan

Response:

A friend is leaving our fishing committee after a number of years. We would like to mark the occasion with a gift. In some ways it is easy you can always find use for a cape, a reel, a fly box, a line, the list is endless… Perhaps a good strong fly box that could take a small inscription would be a permanent reminder, does anyone have any suggestions? — Ellis Morgan

I’ve seen Wheatly fly boxes that people have engraved. Paul

Response:

I’ve used a UK company which specialises in fishing gifts: http://www.justfish.co.uk I’ve had resin fish for the wall, cards and fishing related ornaments etc.  The catalogue is pretty good, in fact I think they sent out a Xmas one recently – might be worth requesting one ?

Response:

In reference to my previous post for justfish.co.uk, the resin fish sculptures are quite nice – they are not very big mind.  I ordered one last year for the wall – only 12 x 8 inches – under

Question:

What is a clave?

Response:

What is a clave?

It is where a bunch of people get together and discuss/practice a common interest, in the case of ROFFians, fly fishing. Supposedly. Havening never been to a ROFF clave I cannot attest to what goes on there, but there are rumors . . . Clave is short for conclave. HTH, Russell

Response:

Ahhh, grasshopper (size 10 Dave’s hopper to be specific) you have much to learn before you ask such fishasophical questions. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

A clave, by any other name . . . john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ahhh, grasshopper (size 10 Dave’s hopper to be specific) you have much to learn before you ask such fishasophical questions.

Response:

What is a clave?

You will need to buy the September issue of American Angler to find out.

Response:

Question:

Took the 15′6" 11 wt. Daiwa to the park at lunch for the first trials with the Airflo shooting head system.  I had on it a 45′ 12 wt. Airflo Type 7 shooting head with a 5′ leader – all attached to 100′ of Airflo running line and practiced my overhead casting with the big stick.  On the fourth cast, I pulled out the backing knot between the stripper and the reel.   That’s 150 freaking feet!! Now if I can only get over my Whirlpool paranoia (losing flies on the rocks on the backcast.) The Airflo shooting head system is super slick, never noticed the loops going through the guides.  I’m in love . . . Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

[shoot].   That’s 150 freaking feet!!

Man that’s gonna take awhile to get back on the spool Now if I can only get over my Whirlpool paranoia (losing flies on the rocks on the backcast.)

You have rocks in a laundry that is big enough for a 150ft cast? Everything *is* bigger up there The Airflo shooting head system is super slick, never noticed the loops going through the guides.  I’m in love . . .

Noted. (The airflo bit At least when you lose the whole fly you usually realise pretty quick,   losing the damn point is a much more subtle affair in the implementation and detection … Steve

Response:

[shoot].   That’s 150 freaking feet!! Man that’s gonna take awhile to get back on the spool

Marquis Salmon No.3 – not long Now if I can only get over my Whirlpool paranoia (losing flies on the rocks on the backcast.) You have rocks in a laundry that is big enough for a 150ft cast? Everything *is* bigger up there

Here’s a view of my washing machine. http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/whirlpool/spey_casting_the_line_layou… The Airflo shooting head system is super slick, never noticed the loops going through the guides.  I’m in love . . . Noted. (The airflo bit At least when you lose the whole fly you usually realise pretty quick,   losing the damn point is a much more subtle affair in the implementation and detection … Steve

Not with the big heads – there’s so much momentum it’s easy to snap it off and fish sans fly without noticing. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Here’s a view of my washing machine.

That the cable car line overhead? Joe F.

Response:

Here’s a view of my washing machine. That the cable car line overhead? Joe F.

And how long will it take him to tangle his line in that ?  That’ll piss em off Scott

Response:

Here’s a view of my washing machine. That the cable car line overhead? Joe F.

Yup, it used_to_be out of reach. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Took the 15′6" 11 wt. Daiwa to the park at lunch for the first trials with the Airflo shooting head system.  I had on it a 45′ 12 wt. Airflo Type 7 shooting head with a 5′ leader – all attached to 100′ of Airflo running line and practiced my overhead casting with the big stick.  On the fourth cast, I pulled out the backing knot between the stripper and the reel. That’s 150 freaking feet!!

In the U.S that’s only 100′

Response:

Here’s a view of my washing machine. http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/whirlpool/spey_casting_the_line_layou…

S’a beautiful looking spot. Not with the big heads – there’s so much momentum it’s easy to snap it off and fish sans fly without noticing.

Yeah, thinking about it that sounds reasonable.  My only experience has been with lightweight (for heads) #8 #9 and the whole thing can "get out of shape" a lot easier than the conventional #4, & 6 WF setups I use.   I wonder how many Whirlpools there are world wide … I can think of 2 here in Aus. that I’ve fished … one in the salt and one in fresh.  I have pics of both somewhere, but your washing machine winds hands down for scenerics. Steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Took the 15′6" 11 wt. Daiwa to the park at lunch for the first trials with the Airflo shooting head system.  I had on it a 45′ 12 wt. Airflo Type 7 shooting head with a 5′ leader – all attached to 100′ of Airflo running line and practiced my overhead casting with the big stick.  On the fourth cast, I pulled out the backing knot between the stripper and the reel. That’s 150 freaking feet!! In the U.S that’s only 100′

My turn – BITE ME! Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Took the 15′6" 11 wt. Daiwa to the park at lunch for the first trials with the Airflo shooting head system.  I had on it a 45′ 12 wt. Airflo Type 7 shooting head with a 5′ leader – all attached to 100′ of Airflo running line and practiced my overhead casting with the big stick.  On the fourth cast, I pulled out the backing knot between the stripper and the reel. That’s 150 freaking feet!!

So how do you hook up with 150 freaking feet of line out? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

… That’s 150 freaking feet!! So how do you hook up with 150 freaking feet of line out?

Accidentally. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Now if I can only get over my Whirlpool paranoia (losing flies on the rocks on the backcast.)

Have you considered trying a cut 850 grain Scientific Anglers Deepwater Express shooting head? I use a soft 8 wt rod in the surf and my preferred setup is about 18 feet of LC-13 connected to a running line.  I like having a short shooting head because sometimes the fish are in really close or they follow the fly all the way close to shore.  Whether I land the fish or not, I have a minimal amount of work to do in order to get the head out past the guides again in preparation for another cast since the head is so short.  Also, there are always dogs, kids, frisbees and who knows what else sneaking up behind me so the short head reduces the chances of incidental non-piscine hookups. A short head is also easier to lift back up to the surface when getting ready for the next cast.  You lose some distance and the transition from back cast to forward cast feels more abrupt (the latter can be minimized by altering your casting motion) but I really like it for the kind of fishing I do especially given that my St. Croix is a slow action rod. You could chop that SA DWE 850 grain head down to 15 feet and still have a 425 grain head. But Airflo has the fastest sinking heads.  That DWE 850 is rated at 9-10 IPS.  A 300 grain Airflo will (purportedly) sink just as fast. Mu

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Have you considered trying a cut 850 grain Scientific Anglers Deepwater Express shooting head? I use a soft 8 wt rod in the surf and my preferred setup is about 18 feet of LC-13 connected to a running line.  I like having a short shooting head because sometimes the fish are in really close or they follow the fly all the way close to shore.  Whether I land the fish or not, I have a minimal amount of work to do in order to get the head out past the guides again in preparation for another cast since the head is so short.  Also, there are always dogs, kids, frisbees and who knows what else sneaking up behind me so the short head reduces the chances of incidental non-piscine hookups. A short head is also easier to lift back up to the surface when getting ready for the next cast.  You lose some distance and the transition from back cast to forward cast feels more abrupt (the latter can be minimized by altering your casting motion) but I really like it for the kind of fishing I do especially given that my St. Croix is a slow action rod. You could chop that SA DWE 850 grain head down to 15 feet and still have a 425 grain head. But Airflo has the fastest sinking heads.  That DWE 850 is rated at 9-10 IPS.  A 300 grain Airflo will (purportedly) sink just as fast. Mu

I’ve done that before with a DWE 850 but I *really* didn’t like how they casted.  The Airflo Type 7 on a 15′6" rod isn’t a handful at all and can be brought in quite close.  The rod action allows some loading in tight in the event you just want to fish in front of you and the loops are so smooth, they’ll run through the guides with no problem. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Took the 15′6" 11 wt. Daiwa to the park at lunch for the first trials with the Airflo shooting head system.  I had on it a 45′ 12 wt. Airflo Type 7 shooting head with a 5′ leader – all attached to 100′ of Airflo running line and practiced my overhead casting with the big stick.  On the fourth cast, I pulled out the backing knot between the stripper and the reel. That’s 150 freaking feet!! So how do you hook up with 150 freaking feet of line out?

Ken’s right – 15 lbs. of steelie  or 30 lbs. of chinook doesn’t require any finesse – the fish hook themselves and with 15′ 6" of rod in the air, I can move a lot of line.  The furthest out I’ve hooked a fish so far has been about 80′-85′ on a streamer (below Lower Dam on the Rapid – about a 2 1/2 lb. salmon.).  There’s so much current pressure on the line that soon as you feel weight and tighten up, the pressure on the line sets the hook. Avoiding breaking off the fish, is the second biggest challenge.  It is real easy to overpower your tippet with that rod in those conditions.  Hooking up isn’t a big deal, getting ‘em to strike when things are slow – that’s the real challenge. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/whirlpool/spey_casting_the_line_layou… S’a beautiful looking spot.

Here is Mapquest’s rendition of the Whirlpool http://makeashorterlink.com/?U2DA6278 Looks like it’s about 900 across.  And that ain’t slack water in there. Look at the direction of the river (flows northwards).  I slams into the whirlpool in a northwesterly direction and then pours out northeasterly. Or maybe this is just the "shadow" Whirlpool Mu

Response:

loops are so smooth, they’ll run through the guides with no problem.

Are those the seamless polymer loops?  My Rio intermediate shooting head has a loop with some sort of sleeve on it and it does not traverse the guides very well. Mu

Response:

loops are so smooth, they’ll run through the guides with no problem. Are those the seamless polymer loops?  My Rio intermediate shooting head has a loop with some sort of sleeve on it and it does not traverse the guides very well. Mu

Yup, the Head loop is conventional looking but small.  The running line loop is the fused polymer type, very large so it can be slipped over a spool – very well thought out. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Mr Charles,   We are sorry to inform you sir that we will have to cry FOUL on the posting of that picture. To think that someone would have the cajones to post something like that only in the interest of teasing others. A pox upon you sir. Is there room in that whirlpool for 2? –SteveC– I’ll show if there are no A-6 drivers around.

Response:

–SteveC– I’ll show if there are no A-6 drivers around.

Then keep Epps out of the stew. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

Mr Charles,  We are sorry to inform you sir that we will have to cry FOUL on the posting of that picture. To think that someone would have the cajones to post something like that only in the interest of teasing others. A pox upon you sir.

nah, nah – I got my pox shots already – a pox back at ya Is there room in that whirlpool for 2?

Well sure, we can always fit in one more.  Just leave the pox at home. –SteveC– I’ll show if there are no A-6 drivers around.

Ah, I see you’ve met one or two already.  <g Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Peter Charles: –SteveC– I’ll show if there are no A-6 drivers around. Ah, I see you’ve met one or two already.  <g Peter

Dave, 4.2L A6

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter Charles: –SteveC– I’ll show if there are no A-6 drivers around. Ah, I see you’ve met one or two already.  <g Peter Dave, 4.2L A6

Perish the thought! This only applies to those guys that drive (and there’s only a few left) those gray Grumman A-6’s. I’ve noticed they aren’t real good around gondola wires. –SteveC– Who lives far too close to 2 naval air stations

Response:

Dave, 4.2L A6 Perish the thought! This only applies to those guys that drive (and there’s only a few left) those gray Grumman A-6’s. I’ve noticed they aren’t real good around gondola wires. –SteveC– Who lives far too close to 2 naval air stations

Ahh, that was a just little too obscure for us.  We’re slipping obviously. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mr Charles,  We are sorry to inform you sir that we will have to cry FOUL on the posting of that picture. To think that someone would have the cajones to post something like that only in the interest of teasing others. A pox upon you sir. nah, nah – I got my pox shots already – a pox back at ya Is there room in that whirlpool for 2? Well sure, we can always fit in one more.  Just leave the pox at home. –SteveC– I’ll show if there are no A-6 drivers around. Ah, I see you’ve met one or two already.  <g Peter

Unfortunately yes, I have. You can always spot ‘em from a mile off too, they love those big watches! –SteveC– I thought the Avenger was a comic book hero? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

–SteveC– I’ll show if there are no A-6 drivers around. Then keep Epps out of the stew.

Frank got it though – who ever said military intelligence is an oxymoron. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Question:

Eastern Canada’s fly/spin casting championships, $$$$ in prizes. Limited entry. 3rd. Annual Fly Tying  ’MAIL-IN’  Competition, great prizes. NO ENTRY FEE Atlantic Outdoor Sports and RV Show http://www.flyschool.net/rv.htm

Response:

Oh well, if it

Question:

Hi All, I compiled the following URL’s over the last week or so since I have seen so many requests for locations on the web.  I just posted it on rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying and thought you guys would enjoy them also. Pete Tampone Fresno, CA Fly Fishing URL’s http://flyfishing.about.com/sports/fishhunt/flyfishing/ http://www.fishhoo.com/ http://www.anglersworkshop.com/ http://www.bobmarriotts.com/ http://www.btsflyfishing.com/ http://www.buckeyeflyfishers.com/education_frame.htm http://www.cabelas.com/ http://www.masterfx.com/Flysnest/Generalfly.htm http://listings.ebay.com/aw/glistings/list/category1492/index.html http://www.fishticker.com/ http://www.flyanglersonline.com/ http://www.davisbrown.com/alpha.htm http://www.yong-special.com/ http://www.kman.com/ http://www.flyshop.com/bench/index-flies.cfm?ID=1727&flyname=McVay%27s%2 http://www.flyfish.com/cgibin/bin/ldisplay.cgi?forsale http://members.aol.com/azflytyer/ http://globalflyfisher.com/ http://www.agt.net/public/flytying/index.html http://www.mailordercentral.com/hookhack/departments.asp http://www.killroys.com/ http://www.motherlodefly.com/index.html http://www.angelfire.com/wa/salmonid/ http://www.flyshop.com/centers/midwest/09-99carp/ http://www.mwflytyer.com/ http://www.flyshop.com/index.cfm http://members.mint.net/raske/swaps/bucktail/lil_bucktails.html http://www.flyshop.com/Marketplace/index.cfm?content=auction&page=ind… 6854&action=details&fullblown=true http://www.virtualflybox.com/

Response:

Hi Pete, thanks for the URL

Question:

Someone wrote, about Slough Creek: The fish’s condition, IMO, left much to be desired. They appeared healthy but their fights were normally poor considering their size. The fish were long, large headed and skinny. I was surprised to see large headed fish over 20". The only times I’ve seen large headed fish were in populations of fish that were stunted due to over population or lack of food. Every large headed fish I had seen in the past was small. Interesting.

Some Slough cutts will fight hard, others won’t. There’s been 3 consecutive years of dought, which might have something to do with their late season lethargy. Once, when still guiding, I took an old guy out–on the Yellowstone. He was in his mid-80’s and could hardly stand up. He was cheerful about it. He was some kind of an environmental big shot. He had known Starker and Aldo Leopold. Late in the evening, when we should have already taken out, I stood downstream of the old guy and propped him up while he tossed a large hopper into a riffle near Carbella bridge. He hooked a fish that made my jaw drop. I saw the dorsal fin break the water and thought it had to be at least ten pounds. When we finally got the fish to the net, it turned out to be a 22" cutthroat. It was the first time I had ever been dissapointed to see a fish that long. Judging from the dorsal fin and the tail, which we had seen several times before we got him in, I thought he must surely be 6" longer than that. This cutthroat looked like an expanded version of a Beartooth Plateau brook trout: fully 1/2 of it’s 22" length was head! That’s trout’s head almost a foot long! I could have put a clinched fist into his mouth. I don’t know how old he was, but he seemed to survive us. I got 2-3 quick pictures (with the customer’s daughter’s camera) and let him go. How old does a trout get? That one had to be somewhere near the upper limit. ….got a $200 tip for that fish, which was a record of sorts in itself, at least for me.

Response:

He hooked a fish that made my jaw drop. I saw the dorsal fin break the water and thought it had to be at least ten pounds. When we finally got the fish to the net, it turned out to be a 22" cutthroat. It was the first time I had ever been dissapointed to see a fish that long. Judging from the dorsal fin and the tail, which we had seen several times before we got him in, I thought he must surely be 6" longer than that. This cutthroat looked like an expanded version of a Beartooth Plateau brook trout: fully 1/2 of it’s 22" length was head! That’s trout’s head almost a foot long!

The Cutts we caught in the Yellowstone were typical small headed fish and fat. The smaller Cutts we caught in other places were also typically proportioned. The Slough Creek fish were the only ones I remember with big heads. Willi

Response:

The Slough Creek fish were the only ones I remember with big heads. Willi

I’ve been fishing Slough Creek for over 15 years and have never caught a cut that was abnormally proportioned.   I’m sorry to hear of your experience Willi. Must be bad luck Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

The Slough Creek fish were the only ones I remember with big heads. Willi I’ve been fishing Slough Creek for over 15 years and have never caught a cut that was abnormally proportioned. I’m sorry to hear of your experience Willi. Must be bad luck Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Maybe it was my perception, but I felt that the majority of the fish we caught were large headed. Willi

Response:

Maybe it was my perception, but I felt that the majority of the fish we caught were large headed.

I am still wondering if the low water levels and above normal water temps haven’t done something to the food supply.  The fish in the 1st and 3rd meadows seemed normal to me. — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

Response:

Maybe it was my perception, but I felt that the majority of the fish we caught were large headed. I am still wondering if the low water levels and above normal water temps haven’t done something to the food supply.  The fish in the 1st and 3rd meadows seemed normal to me.

I thought the fish is the second meadow were very sluggish fighters. They looked like normal cutthroat to me, but they came to hand with a deplorable lack of vigor. I don’t know whether this was due to the warm water, or the food supply, or the fact that this is one of the most heavily fished areas in the Park. Maybe it was a combination of all three factors, and maybe more. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

They looked like normal cutthroat to me, but they came to hand with a deplorable lack of vigor. I don’t know whether this was due to the warm water, or the food supply, or the fact that this is one of the most

Been out of state for a while and haven’t been able to post. My experience is that this type of sluggishness is due to the water temp. When it gets like that, I usually quite fishing. — Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

They looked like normal cutthroat to me, but they came to hand with a deplorable lack of vigor. I don’t know whether this was due to the warm water, or the food supply, or the fact that this is one of the most Been out of state for a while and haven’t been able to post. My experience is that this type of sluggishness is due to the water temp. When it gets like that, I usually quite fishing.

I’ve only ever run into large headed fish on Spring Creek, PA – something I attribute to over stocking.  What’s the story here? Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They looked like normal cutthroat to me, but they came to hand with a deplorable lack of vigor. I don’t know whether this was due to the warm water, or the food supply, or the fact that this is one of the most Been out of state for a while and haven’t been able to post. My experience is that this type of sluggishness is due to the water temp. When it gets like that, I usually quite fishing. I’ve only ever run into large headed fish on Spring Creek, PA – something I attribute to over stocking.  What’s the story here?

I’m the one that commented on the large headed fish. Steve didn’t see them that way. (Maybe he has some pix?) I can see a skinny fish in my mind of about 20" that was almost one third head. I remember thinking that the only fish I’ve seen proportioned in this way were stunted fish. But since the picture is Willi

Response:

I can see a skinny fish in my mind of about 20" that was almost one third head. I remember thinking that the only fish I’ve seen proportioned in this way were stunted fish. But since the picture is Willi

Here’s one from PA. http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/images/brown.jpg I’m judging by the size of the mouth.  This 11" brown would’ve been 16" to 18" on the Grand, given the same sized mouth. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Slough Creek big fish always were very sluggish to me.  I’ve caught them from mid July to end of August and the BIG ones always acted slow.  Another strange thing was that they would play dead after being released.  The fish would swim off and go to the bottom belly up.  When you went over to get it to help revive it, it would quickly swim away. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They looked like normal cutthroat to me, but they came to hand with a deplorable lack of vigor. I don’t know whether this was due to the warm water, or the food supply, or the fact that this is one of the most Been out of state for a while and haven’t been able to post. My experience is that this type of sluggishness is due to the water temp. When it gets like that, I usually quite fishing. — Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

Excellent reports Willi, and I like the format of dividing them up for each place you  fished.  I never knew that cutts were so different in their approach to the dry – very cool. bruce h

Response:

The fish’s condition, IMO, left much to be desired. They appeared healthy but their fights were normally poor considering their size. The fish were long, large headed and skinny. I was surprised to see large headed fish over 20". The only times I’ve seen large headed fish were in populations of fish that were stunted due to over population or lack of food. Every large headed fish I had seen in the past was small. Interesting.

That is interesting.  It makes you wonder how that even came to be.  It takes quite a bit of food to grow a fish over 20".  Yet, they looked malnourished.  So they must have been very old fish, another thing that doesn’t usually happen without good conditions.

Response:

We left too late for the walk into Slough Creek. Although the hike wasn’t steep, it was a pretty good hump into the second meadow where we fished and it was already hot when we started. Lots of sweat, the river was a welcome sight. The walk would have been much more pleasant in the cool of the morning. Slough Creek seems to me to be the most publicized water in Yellowstone and I was pleasantly surprised by the uncrowded conditions there.  We did run into a few people, but we pretty much had the river to ourselves. There were low, late summer water conditions. Being a meadow river, it was very placid with large oxbow pools punctuated by shallow runs with moderate current. The water was clear and sight fishing was possible for cruising or feeding fish, but the fish were also willing to rise a long distance from the bottom of the deep stretches to take a dry. The fishing was good, somewhat challenging and with lots of fish. The Cutts feeding behavior was very frustrating at first especially in the slow sections of deeper water. The fish would materialize out of the depth and slowly lift up below and behind the fly. Most would casually drift back with the current, hovering below the surface scrutinizing the fly. Some fish would then slowly sink back into the depth and others would SLOWLY inch toward the fly. Of the fish that moved to the fly, some would drift down at the last moment, some would nudge the fly, some would swat at the fly and others would take it with confidence in an agonizingly slow, deliberate manner. Many fish were sizable and their appearance out of the depths made them appear more so. The result was missed fish from false takes and from pulling the fly away before the fish took. The fish forced you to adopt their unhurried, deliberate approach. Their approach gave you a clear idea of what they though of your fly. For some flies they would just move a bit and retreat back, others they would scrutinize and reject, others they would slash at, bump, mouth or hit, and if you found the right one they would take it with slow assurance. A size 12 black deer hair beetle worked very well for me. We had a very good day of fishing with lots of fish even under the hot, bright sun. The fish’s condition, IMO, left much to be desired. They appeared healthy but their fights were normally poor considering their size. The fish were long, large headed and skinny. I was surprised to see large headed fish over 20". The only times I’ve seen large headed fish were in populations of fish that were stunted due to over population or lack of food. Every large headed fish I had seen in the past was small. Interesting.  We saw one truly large fish cruising in a backwater area. It was probably close to the length of Steve’s big fish from "Rattlesnake" but it would have weighed about a third as much. The area was very "western" to me with a nice mixture of bluffs, trees, meadow and huge skies. I enjoyed the day and plans had been made to go to the third meadow, but time seemed to while away and we didn’t make it back. Willi

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……. The Cutts feeding behavior was very frustrating at first especially in the slow sections of deeper water. The fish would materialize out of the depth and slowly lift up below and behind the fly. Most would casually drift back with the current, hovering below the surface scrutinizing the fly. Some fish would then slowly sink back into the depth and others would SLOWLY inch toward the fly…….

Very nice report, Willi.  Over the years, I’ve gone from a confirmed dry fly fisher to a confirmed nympher.  When I do use dries or emergers, splashy rises don’t excite me much anymore.  The slow, painfully deliberate, all-too-visible rise of a big fish from the deep that you describe, however, remains one of the greatest, and trickiest, thrills in fishing.  Amazing how much tension can mount in the space of just a few seconds.  I think the best is when it happens in close, with the fish facing directly toward you, and you can see straight down its gullet as it opens up to take the fly. JR

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When talking about Slough Creek, one thinks of meadows (lower meadow, first meadow, second meadow and, if you have horses, third meadow).

You don’t need horses to get to third meadow. It’s only eight miles from the parking lot to the confluence of Slough & Elk Tongue Creeks. It’s an easy hike over a well maintained trail of less than 2.5 hours. What is the terrain like upstreams, between meadows ? Can one access the river ? is it worth fishing ?

I’ve only fished between second and third. It’s steep, the scree can be very dangerous but if you’re careful and choose your entry & exit points with prudence it’s quite fishable. Expect cutts to average 17" with the occasional 22" or better. — Ken Fortenberry

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As a matter of fact I just got off the phone with a friend who was up there last weekend and did really well between the first and second meadows. He said he was fishing in the tree line and caught one 18" cutt after another. He talked to a Ranger who said not many people fish between the meadows. Neither knew why, certainly not from a lack of fish. The best they could speculate was bears. Make sure you remember bear spray.  Might never need it, certainly won’t if you are dead. Warren PS-He was knocking them dead on parachute Adams.

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Interesting, it took me about 45 minutes to get to the 1st meadow, I thought it took 2 1/2 hrs to get to the 2nd meadow. Thanks, -Vittorio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When talking about Slough Creek, one thinks of meadows (lower meadow, first meadow, second meadow and, if you have horses, third meadow). You don’t need horses to get to third meadow. It’s only eight miles from the parking lot to the confluence of Slough & Elk Tongue Creeks. It’s an easy hike over a well maintained trail of less than 2.5 hours. What is the terrain like upstreams, between meadows ? Can one access the river ? is it worth fishing ? I’ve only fished between second and third. It’s steep, the scree can be very dangerous but if you’re careful and choose your entry & exit points with prudence it’s quite fishable. Expect cutts to average 17" with the occasional 22" or better. — Ken Fortenberry

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Hmm, how often do serious bear accidents occur in Yellowstone ? You do not really hear about that many people eaten or even mangled, inspite of the fact that tourists can be real idiots (last year, every time a wild animal was spotted, a horde of turists would swarm from the cars towards the animal. I thought I would see someone gutted to death by an elk, a moose or  a bison by the end of my visit, however, this did not happen). I agree, though, bears can be frightful sight when fishing ….. -Vittorio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a matter of fact I just got off the phone with a friend who was up there last weekend and did really well between the first and second meadows. He said he was fishing in the tree line and caught one 18" cutt after another. He talked to a Ranger who said not many people fish between the meadows. Neither knew why, certainly not from a lack of fish. The best they could speculate was bears. Make sure you remember bear spray.  Might never need it, certainly won’t if you are dead. Warren PS-He was knocking them dead on parachute Adams.

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Get a copy of Mark of the Grizzly.  Excellent book about bear attacks.  Quite a few stories about Yellowstone tourists being eaten, people being attacked in Gardiner, ect ect.  If I remember correctly there was even one about an attack in Slough. Obviously not something Yellowstone would like to publicize.  You would probably be suprised at the number of non fatal bear "incidents".  For $40 it isn’t too bad of an investment.  Think of it as living insurance.  Probably won’t ever need it, but better to be safe than sorry.  I am going to buy some soon.  Especially after getting a little close for comfort a few weeks ago on Mill Creek in the Paradise Valley. Warren

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There’s a pretty bearanoia story (involving Sough Creek) at http://www.montana-riverboats.com/flies/     …under the Roadkill link…. — /* Sandy Pittendrigh                  –oO0  * http://www.nervana.montana.edu/~sandy  */

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Hi folks, I have a question regarding Slough Creek in Yellowstone. When talking about Slough Creek, one thinks of meadows (lower meadow, first meadow, second meadow and, if you have horses, third meadow). How about between meadows ? Below the lower meadow, the river gets into a steep canyon which is somewhat unaccessible, and can be dangerous (or so books say, I have never tried it). What is the terrain like upstreams, between meadows ? Can one access the river ? is it worth fishing ? Thanks, -Vittorio

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Question:

(snipped Wolfgang’s set-up ;^) LOL.   I think you’ve filled in the blanks nicely, but I have to make at least one post with the word "meniscus" in it.   There.

Heck – ya beat me to it, Joe! /daytripper

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You forgot Fuhrer baiting Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip Why, in addition to your hiking, hunting, and shooting, we have experts here on canoeing, politics, environment, beer, single-malt Scotch, kayaking, cooking, poetry, rod building, goats…..<snip …..scientific terminology, anti-retro-post-deconstuctionist theory (as applied to all of the above, and below), the true path to enlightenment, hydrophobia, hydrology, hydrangeas, metallurgy, dramaturgy, ballistics, statistics, logistics, political economy, autonomy, Deuteronomy, Exodus, calculus, elastic modulus, pathos, bathos, Athos, Porthos, ethics, literary criticism, philology, philosophy, phylogeny, philandering, filigree, fillets, philodendrons, fillips, Philippinos, fistulas, fissures, fishers, martens, minks, Gink, Xink, (and the kitchen sink!) and a few other things that I can’t even spell!

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And I thought I was one of the few to graduate at 32!

32?  I didn’t think it was possible to get out that young!  I was 38 myself, and I only got out that soon by rummaging through the catalogue long enough to find a major to which I could apply some of the hundreds of eclectic credits I accumulated over a checkered 13 year college career!

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LOL.   I think you’ve filled in the blanks nicely, but I have to make at least one post with the word "meniscus" in it.   There.

I would have bet a thousand dollars that we could not get through this thread without THAT word showing up, but I don’t suppose I’d have gotten anyone to take the bet.  Thanks for the salt Joe, I am rubbing it in to the wound even as I type!

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And I thought I was one of the few to graduate at 32! 32?  I didn’t think it was possible to get out that young!  I was 38 myself, and I only got out that soon by rummaging through the catalogue long enough to find a major to which I could apply some of the hundreds of eclectic credits I accumulated over a checkered 13 year college career!

Alright, we’re not competitive on ROFF at all, are we?  Let’s see who can top first undergrad degree at 47. Peter

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Alright, we’re not competitive on ROFF at all, are we?  Let’s see who can top first undergrad degree at 47. Athletic scholarship? — Charlie…

 Combined engineering and kinesiology degree – thesis "Stress analysis of lightweight aluminium alloy struts for supporting over-developed, middle aged, male beer bellies."  Study group was required to consume a case of lager a day for two months while wearing the struts. Naturally, as part of any good participant-observer methodology, I included myself in the study. Peter

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Waldo: <<don’t forget us "rhododendron" experts in the blue ridge…. mountain laurel hell! AKA Fortenberry’s Flowers!  d;0) Where da hell is my rod/reel case?  Must I employ Wayno to get it?  <G Dave LaCourse

    can’t get blood out of a turnip, david! wayno

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Combined engineering and kinesiology degree – thesis "Stress analysis of lightweight aluminium alloy struts for supporting over-developed, middle aged, male beer bellies."  Study group was required to consume a case of lager a day for two months while wearing the struts. Naturally, as part of any good participant-observer methodology, I included myself in the study.

No doubt this also spawned a paper on the corrosive effects of urine on structural aluminum alloys. Joe F. BS at 33 (a mere babe) MBA at 45 (getting there)

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Study group was required to consume a case of lager a day for two months while wearing the struts. Naturally, as part of any good participant-observer methodology, I included myself in the study.

Hm….well, there’s lager and then there’s lager.  The major American, Canadian, Australian, and Japanese brewers put out products modeled (very loosely) on the classic Pilsner style which is a lager.  On the other end of the spectrum you have the equally classic, though much more robust, doppelbocks.  While I’m sure that some valuable preliminary data could be obtained from the study of the effects of any of these, or many others, I suspect that a great deal more work needs to be done.  Let me be the first to volunteer my services for follow-up studies assuming, of course, that I will not be subjected to the aforementioned toxic swill produced by the majors; put it back in the horse!

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that I will not be subjected to the aforementioned toxic swill produced by the majors; put it back in the horse!

Actually….[from Robertson's] Budweiser rates a 63 for the style, Coors 65, Michelob 74.  Pilsner Urquell a 79 (they must have slacked off, this should be at 100 since it is the original heretic Pilsner Lager that should be the standard for this style).  The US lagers are actually excellent *for the style*, which is exceedingly difficult to duplicate by the home brewer.  Are these numbers accurate ? Well…they show Zima at 13.  That’s a pretty good control. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Actually….[from Robertson's] Budweiser rates a 63 for the style, … The US lagers are actually excellent *for the style*, which is exceedingly difficult to duplicate by the home brewer. …

Damn right. Whenever one of the beer snobs around here starts in with the gagging and pinching the nose routine at the the mention of Budweiser, which has a taste, a smoothness and a drinkability you will find in no other beer at any price, I challenge ‘em to brew up a lager that’s better. No takers to date. — Ken Fortenberry

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Waldo: <<don’t forget us "rhododendron" experts in the blue ridge…. mountain laurel hell! AKA Fortenberry’s Flowers!  d;0)

Yeah, what’s the deal with the rhodedendrons in the Nantahala ? I had to go to Beckley, West Virginia under very sad circumstances and to kill time before the funeral I drove around the surrounding countryside. The rhodedendrons were in bloom and it was a spectacular sight. And too, I’ve read reports of hikes along the Appalachian Trail where the rhodedendrons in bloom are described in reverential tones. When I was in North Carolina with the two reprobates referenced above there were plenty of rhodedendrons, we thrashed through them, cursed them, removed our flies from them and used them as trail markers, but there were no blooms. Not a single blooming flower (pun intended):-). Any horticulturists in our midst care to take a stab at an explanation ? (And I’m not talking to those of you that buy caviar for prostitutes.) — Ken Fortenberry You can lead a whore to culture, but you can’t make her think.                                                         -Dorothy Parker-

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Mike: <<Did i mention almost a college grad too, been studying molecular biology.. and have a AS with alot of forestry and wildlife bio built in.  so i can understand at least 10 out of that top list hehe. mike Oh, great.  Exactly what we need — another pedant!!!! Oh, hell…….  Welcome aboard, Mike.  <g Dave LaCourse

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I was almost a college grad for more than ten years.  :-)<

Me too.  Best 10 years of my life.

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Waldo: <<don’t forget us "rhododendron" experts in the blue ridge…. mountain laurel hell! AKA Fortenberry’s Flowers!  d;0) Where da hell is my rod/reel case?  Must I employ Wayno to get it?  <G Dave LaCourse

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And I thought I was one of the few to graduate at 32! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was almost a college grad for more than ten years.  :-)< Me too.  Best 10 years of my life.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip Why, in addition to your hiking, hunting, and shooting, we have experts here on canoeing, politics, environment, beer, single-malt Scotch, kayaking, cooking, poetry, rod building, goats…..<snip …..scientific terminology, anti-retro-post-deconstuctionist theory (as applied to all of the above, and below), the true path to enlightenment, hydrophobia, hydrology, hydrangeas, metallurgy, dramaturgy, ballistics, statistics, logistics, political economy, autonomy, Deuteronomy, Exodus, calculus, elastic modulus, pathos, bathos, Athos, Porthos, ethics, literary criticism, philology, philosophy, phylogeny, philandering, filigree, fillets, philodendrons, fillips, Philippinos, fistulas, fissures, fishers, martens, minks, Gink, Xink, (and the kitchen sink!) and a few other things that I can’t even spell!

Don’t forget robot fish! — Levi I have been through some terrible things in my life – some of which actually happened.  –Mark Twain

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Hi I’m mike, I am 25 and live in Westchester county, in the state of

Welcome to the group Mike. TL MC

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip Why, in addition to your hiking, hunting, and shooting, we have experts here on canoeing, politics, environment, beer, single-malt Scotch, kayaking, cooking, poetry, rod building, goats…..<snip …..scientific terminology, anti-retro-post-deconstuctionist theory (as applied to all of the above, and below), the true path to enlightenment, hydrophobia, hydrology, hydrangeas, metallurgy, dramaturgy, ballistics, statistics, logistics, political economy, autonomy, Deuteronomy, Exodus, calculus, elastic modulus, pathos, bathos, Athos, Porthos, ethics, literary criticism, philology, philosophy, phylogeny, philandering, filigree, fillets, philodendrons, fillips, Philippinos, fistulas, fissures, fishers, martens, minks, Gink, Xink, (and the kitchen sink!) and a few other things that I can’t even spell!

Did i mention almost a college grad too, been studying molecular biology.. and have a AS with alot of forestry and wildlife bio built in.  so i can understand at least 10 out of that top list hehe. mike

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip Why, in addition to your hiking, hunting, and shooting, we have experts here on canoeing, politics, environment, beer, single-malt Scotch, kayaking, cooking, poetry, rod building, goats…..<snip …..scientific terminology, anti-retro-post-deconstuctionist theory (as applied to all of the above, and below), the true path to enlightenment, hydrophobia, hydrology, hydrangeas, metallurgy, dramaturgy, ballistics, statistics, logistics, political economy, autonomy, Deuteronomy, Exodus, calculus, elastic modulus, pathos, bathos, Athos, Porthos, ethics, literary criticism, philology, philosophy, phylogeny, philandering, filigree, fillets, philodendrons, fillips, Philippinos, fistulas, fissures, fishers, martens, minks, Gink, Xink, (and the kitchen sink!) and a few other things that I can’t even spell!

LOL.   I think you’ve filled in the blanks nicely, but I have to make at least one post with the word "meniscus" in it.   There. Joe F.

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Did i mention almost a college grad too

Big deal.   I was almost a college grad for more than ten years.  :-) Joe F.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip Why, in addition to your hiking, hunting, and shooting, we have experts here on canoeing, politics, environment, beer, single-malt Scotch, kayaking, cooking, poetry, rod building, goats…..<snip …..scientific terminology, anti-retro-post-deconstuctionist theory (as applied to all of the above, and below), the true path to enlightenment, hydrophobia, hydrology, hydrangeas, metallurgy, dramaturgy, ballistics, statistics, logistics, political economy, autonomy, Deuteronomy, Exodus, calculus, elastic modulus, pathos, bathos, Athos, Porthos, ethics, literary criticism, philology, philosophy, phylogeny, philandering, filigree, fillets, philodendrons, fillips, Philippinos, fistulas, fissures, fishers, martens, minks, Gink, Xink, (and the kitchen sink!) and a few other things that I can’t even spell!

don’t forget us "rhododendron" experts in the blue ridge…. mountain laurel hell! walt — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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Before flyfishing I have been a avid Hiker, small/big game hunter, and dedicated gun collector and shooter.

Hi Mike, Welcome to ROFF.   This is a one-stop shop for a guy like you.  We’ve got all those bases covered and more!   Why, in addition to your hiking, hunting, and shooting, we have experts here on canoeing, politics, environment, beer, single-malt Scotch, kayaking, cooking, poetry, rod building, goats and damn near anything else.   We even talk about fishing once in a while. Nice to meet all of you.

You might want to hold back on that; you haven’t met all of us yet.  <g Joe F.

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<snip Why, in addition to your hiking, hunting, and shooting, we have experts here on canoeing, politics, environment, beer, single-malt Scotch, kayaking, cooking, poetry, rod building, goats…..<snip

…..scientific terminology, anti-retro-post-deconstuctionist theory (as applied to all of the above, and below), the true path to enlightenment, hydrophobia, hydrology, hydrangeas, metallurgy, dramaturgy, ballistics, statistics, logistics, political economy, autonomy, Deuteronomy, Exodus, calculus, elastic modulus, pathos, bathos, Athos, Porthos, ethics, literary criticism, philology, philosophy, phylogeny, philandering, filigree, fillets, philodendrons, fillips, Philippinos, fistulas, fissures, fishers, martens, minks, Gink, Xink, (and the kitchen sink!) and a few other things that I can’t even spell!

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Hi I’m mike, I am 25 and live in Westchester county, in the state of NY..right next to the metro area.  I mainly fish in the croton system, and I have actually finally gotten the hang of fishing in a river less than 10 ft wide!  I am also thinking of joining my local chapter of Trout Unlimited to meet some fellow sportsman. Before flyfishing I have been a avid Hiker, small/big game hunter, and dedicated gun collector and shooter.  Nice to meet all of you. PS i’ll have alot of questions for you all when i come into a snag or two. mike

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Question:

Check this cool site out guys!!!! http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Academy/2187 regards….

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Check this cool site out guys!!!! http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Academy/2187 regards….

Come on we love fishing , we doesn’t are on alt.sex or rec.sex or any crab like that This newsgroup is for people who enjoy the outdoors, and of course we love to do fly fishing, we don’t want people like you arround. — Simon Zlachevsky http://www.scc.puc.cl/~szlachev/ Trata a los demas como te gustaria que te trataran a ti!                 /)                       O      /(                       |     /                       |   /                      /                 /             **                         ‘ () ‘                    ” /”                               UuUuUuUuUuU  Fly fishing, enjoy the outdoors, release the fish

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Question:

My wife picked up a bamboo rod as a gift for me from an antique store in Asheville last weekend.  The rod is a 7 foot split bamboo.  The label inside the wooden box says Grampus and identifies the name of the maker as Kiraku Co. of Japan.  It appears to be in unused condition and the guy who sold it said that the woman he bought it from said it had been used exactly once.  One of the male ferrules on one of the tips is loose.  Should this be glued on with epoxy?  Is there some other way this should be secured?  Also, I’m thinking the rod would probably look nice with a Pfleuger Medalist reel.  Any tips on determining line weight?

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My wife picked up a bamboo rod as a gift for me from an antique store in Asheville last weekend.  The rod is a 7 foot split bamboo.  The label inside the wooden box says Grampus and identifies the name of the maker as Kiraku Co. of Japan.  It appears to be in unused condition and the guy who sold it said that the woman he bought it from said it had been used exactly once.  One of the male ferrules on one of the tips is loose.  Should this be glued on with epoxy?  Is there some other way this should be secured?  Also, I’m thinking the rod would probably look nice with a Pfleuger Medalist reel.  Any tips on determining line weight?

I’d try casting the rod a few times before buying a reel for it. Those Japanese rods aren’t the best old rods around. It might "look nice with a Pfleuger Medalist reel" over the mantle. Dave — Visit Dave Teffeteller’s Fly Fishing Guides Home Page http://www.olfart.com

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DT My wife picked up a bamboo rod as a gift for me from an antique store DT in Asheville last weekend.  The rod is a 7 foot split bamboo.  The DT label inside the wooden box says Grampus and identifies the name of DT the maker as Kiraku Co. of Japan.  It appears to be in unused condition DT and the guy who sold it said that the woman he bought it from said it DT had been used exactly once.  One of the male ferrules on one of the tips DT is loose.  Should this be glued on with epoxy?  Is there some other way DT this should be secured?  Also, I’m thinking the rod would probably look DT nice with a Pfleuger Medalist reel.  Any tips on determining line DT weight? This happens on alot of old cane rods. First, you need to see if there is a pin that disects the ferrule and the cane. If there is you might see if you can remove it first. If not, try gently heating the ferrule over a flame while attempting to gently (or not so gently) pull it off. The heat both expands the metal and helps melt any heat senistive glue underneath. Heat only the tip area of the metal ferrule and back off the heat if you see the cane smoking. Be careful how you grasp the ferrule with pliers or vise so as not to distort or scratch the ferrule. Use soft cloth or whatever but don’t set yourself on fire. Once off, you can determine the extent of the underlying problem. Cracked, broken, just worn, or whatever, you will have to find a way to perfectly fit the ferrule on again. It will need to be very tight in the cool mode to withstand the pressures exerted during casting. If necessary, you may have to very carefully move the ferrule to a slightly different location by carefully carving around the rod with a very sharp knife, then carefully scraping the cane down to inside ferrule shape and length. This takes time but it best done by holding the knife 90 degrees to the rod and "shaving" very gradually. Remember you will be heating and expanding the ferrule to put it back on, just like you did when it came off. Don’t even think about epoxy… Ferrule cement is what you want. Most good fly shops will have it, but if you can’t find it there go to an archery shop as it is also used in arrow making. It looks like a stick of hot glue. It is used by heating and melting small amounts into the ferrule, quickly heatng the ferrule, and quickly shoving your ferrule onto your perfectly fit rod carving. If the taper of the rod, and the amount of cane removed causes an unsightly connection, you must fill and sometimes scrape cane until you acheive the desired result. Re-wrapping above the ferrule can cover some(but not many) mistakes in your fitting. Alternative methods: Buy an older reel and line at a garage sale and make a great wall hanger. If its really bad, use the bottom half of the rod and reel, and an old wicker creel on a wood lamp base and backboard to make a great flyfishing lamp. Line weight with cane rods is hard to determine except by casting. I’ll take a wild guess that your cane rod will probably take a heavier line to load up as they are a little on the stiff side. Guides may also be on the small side as the older fly lines were significantly smaller in diameter. You might start with a 6 and try a few from there. Fish with the 6 for a few hours and you’ll probably be worn out enough for one of the alternate methods mentioned above. Good luck. … nfx v2.6 [C0000]                                                        

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Question:

To all interested;      I posted about a new web page that I had created, on flyfishing, but forgot to give the address.  No one said you had to be bright to work with a computer but it sometimes help.  So here is the address "http://infoave.net/~bptrav1" it might be a liitle easier to find this way.  The page is new so any suggestions will be appreciated.  In the near future I am going to make this sight into an online flyfishing magezine with help,how to and advice for the flyfishing advocates out there.  So please take a look and E-mail me any suggestions or something you would like to post on the page.                               Thanks                               Ben Powell

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