Question:

He just doesn’t like big trout when *I* catch them.

And don’t forget the pictures….  Those damn pictures!!!! — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

He just doesn’t like big trout when *I* catch them. And don’t forget the pictures….  Those damn pictures!!!!

Yeah, the poorly composed ones. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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And don’t forget the pictures….  Those damn pictures!!!!

Yeah, the poorly composed ones.<   And taken with an (ugh) digital camera.  <g   Harry  

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now I’m not so sure that we shouldn’t dam the fuck out of Colorado. It’s not anything like watersheds with anadromous species. Horseshit. Explain please. Simple. Free flowing rivers are beautiful, natural things that aren’t improved by a concrete dam.

While I was referring to blockage of migration of anadromous species as farily sound ecological detriment to damming watercourse, you went another way. You cited the beauty of the free flowing rivers, to which there can be absolutely no doubt. This remains an irony however, given your original thread’s posit, that the river levels are down, very warm and fish kill is imminent. By your own description the beauty of nature left untamed must, therefore, include fish kill, drought and fire as a part of the composition. So let’s stop bitching. Let all of the fucking californimported fish die and we’ll just call it "part of the beauty of nature"?. And that, Willi, is fine by me. Wanna know something else that is beautiful, though, Willi ? (of course these things are probably best left up to eye of the beholder) wooden sailboats luffing in the calm of a fire orange sunset on the image that is a Dillon Lake, Colorado postcard. Your pal, — TBone

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i am astonished that someone not directly involved in that conflict actually understands the enormous cost it has been to this country.

Not directly involved ? We are all directly involved, most people are just too stupid to recognize it. OBROFF: The helicopter made for some morose entertainment yesterday as it returned time and again for it’s bucket of water from Pinewood Reservoir. Spork, The Wonder Weiner Dog, and I went fishless. There are lakes in Colorado where the bag limits have been removed. They’re gonna dry up. Might as well harvest the meat that’s there. Your pal, — TBone

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And don’t forget the pictures….  Those damn pictures!!!! Yeah, the poorly composed ones.<   And taken with an (ugh) digital camera.  <g  

The shame of it all… — I fly fish so therefore I am.

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1. We get great tailwaters for fishing big trout.  It appears that Wolfgang liks BIG trout, so this would be a good benefit for travelling fly fisherman to Colorado.

He just doesn’t like big trout when *I* catch them. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Locally, the fishing is more like mid Summer than like runoff that would be typical for this time of year. My home river is warm enough to wade wet comfortably. During the heat of a warm day, the water is only cool. I’ve been fishing this stretch of river for fifteen years and conditions are the worst I’ve seen for this time of year. Although my home river is at low elevation, reports from across the State have echoed what I’m seeing here locally. I’m concerned about wide spread, heavy fish kills. Question for you guys in Montana. When you had your "drought" and fish kills were predicted, did they occur? If they did, what was the extent? Willi

Response:

I’m concerned about wide spread, heavy fish kills. Question for you guys in Montana. When you had your "drought" and fish kills were predicted, did they occur? If they did, what was the extent?

They predicted fish kills but were able to regulate the water well enough on most rivers that fish kills were minor from what I heard.  Thankfully I never saw any fish kills on any of the rivers I fish.  One of the biggest problems faced was enforcing the water rights because some people who were not entitled to any water were drawing water.  Some conservation groups were able to convince a few people with water rights not to take their full share of water in order to prevent major fish kills on the Gallatin and something similar was done on the Big Hole to avert disaster there.  Apparently it worked because they were especially proud of the job done on the Big Hole.  When Marshall Krasser came out and we fished the Big Hole, the river seemed to be in pretty good shape to me.  That was the first time I had fished that river, but there seemed to be plenty of fish in there.  I think the upper reaches of that river were the hardest hit though. Tailwaters were another story.  During the summer things were actually decent, but they dropped the flows way down in the winter and had winter fish kills on some rivers.  The second hand info I heard was that very young fish were the hardest hit when flows were dropped down to levels like 24 cfs (on the river where we resorted to streamers).  Haven’t fished that river lately and am curious to see how it faired. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Locally, the fishing is more like mid Summer than like runoff that would be typical for this time of year. My home river is warm enough to wade wet comfortably. During the heat of a warm day, the water is only cool. I’ve been fishing this stretch of river for fifteen years and conditions are the worst I’ve seen for this time of year. Although my home river is at low elevation, reports from across the State have echoed what I’m seeing here locally. I’m concerned about wide spread, heavy fish kills. Question for you guys in Montana. When you had your "drought" and fish kills were predicted, did they occur? If they did, what was the extent? Willi

Yes, there were a couple of years when we did have fish kill that I recall. I don’t know if they were "predicted" but during 1988 and again in 1994 as well as last year and the year before (2001 and 2000), drought warnings were out and it was "advised" that fishermen restrict their fishing to waters that  were not so hard hit with regard to flow and temperature. As far as last year goes, I don’t know yet if FWP really has a handle on whether or not we had any extensive fish kill. I’m certain there had to be some mortality but to what extent, I don’t think is known. I would venture to say that most fish that died, did so on account of the stress induced from fishing. It has been my policy to cancel trips when it gets so bad. I began this policy after my experiences in 1988. The last float I took fishermen on during that season, I distinctly remember a nice fish coming up to the fly, taking it, half-heartedly thrashing for a second or two, and then rolling over on its side and just skate across the surface as the guy reeled him in. As I recall, the water temp was between 72 and 75 degrees. It was that particular fish that made me realize that fishing when the conditions were such was just going to hurt the fishery. Of course, there were (and still are) plenty of guides and outfitters who still take their customers out, even at the expense of the resource. I can think of one who, when I cancelled a Smith river 5-day float (and many others were doing the same), due to extremely low water, he went ahead and took his people on the scheduled trip. The flow was below 100 cfs which, for the the Smith, is a trickle. I’m sure those people had just a lovely time on their 62-mile DRAG. Warren, got your email but haven’t had time to respond yet. I’m presently in Georgia visiting family and won’t be home till July 1. I’ll try to compose a response before then. Off to fish the Hiwassee in Tennessee next week. Any one got any advice for this river? Tight lines, Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

I’m concerned about wide spread, heavy fish kills.

Perhaps this periodic event explains the absence of indignious trout of any kind in the N. Platte drainage (prior to stocking activities) <?. TBone

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m concerned about wide spread, heavy fish kills. Question for you guys in Montana. When you had your "drought" and fish kills were predicted, did they occur? If they did, what was the extent? They predicted fish kills but were able to regulate the water well enough on most rivers that fish kills were minor from what I heard.  Thankfully I never saw any fish kills on any of the rivers I fish.  One of the biggest problems faced was enforcing the water rights because some people who were not entitled to any water were drawing water.  Some conservation groups were able to convince a few people with water rights not to take their full share of water in order to prevent major fish kills on the Gallatin and something similar was done on the Big Hole to avert disaster there.  Apparently it worked because they were especially proud of the job done on the Big Hole.

Unfortunately, that isn’t even an option in Colorado. We have very antiquated water laws that several groups are presently attempting to change.    If a rancher or farmer chooses not to use his allotment of water, in order to leave water in the river or for any other reason, he stands to lose the right to this water in future. The statute is counter conservation of water. The same thing could happen if farmer chose to use a more efficient irrigation system. As the law now stands, water rights must be used only for a "beneficial use." Leaving water in the stream or river for recreational purposes, for the benefit of the fishes, etc. is not considered to be a "beneficial use." This means that conservation groups or individuals can’t buy water rights or a farmer can’t denote or sell water in order to supplement stream flows. Neither of these things apply to Montana. Some groups in Montana have purchased water rights in some small streams in order to increase water levels in the streams so they can support the spawning runs that run up them from larger rivers and provide habitat for the fry. There has been several successful programs utilizing this approach. Willi

Response:

I’m concerned about wide spread, heavy fish kills. Perhaps this periodic event explains the absence of indignious trout of any kind in the N. Platte drainage (prior to stocking activities) <?.

That’s an interesting idea. A prolonged drought might have had that effect. The North Platte drainage is one of the few major drainages in the Rockies that didn’t support a population of indigenous trout that is now able to support a sustaining trout population. The present level of drought has the potential of being severely damaging to fish populations only because of irrigation usage. Willi

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Unfortunately, that isn’t even an option in Colorado.

<snipped Are there any organizations trying to fix Colorado’s stream access and water rights laws?  If so, I suggest you start helping them out in any way you possibly can and also encouraging people you know from out of state who fish Colorado to get involved as well.  Sportsmen and anglers are a large group that can be very "political" when united under a common cause. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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The present level of drought has the potential of being severely damaging to fish populations only because of irrigation usage.

True, but the overall steady state regarding available water is definately enhanced by the water storage and diversion projects. I used to have anti-Two Forks propoganda on my truck, now I’m not so sure that we shouldn’t dam the fuck out of Colorado. It’s not anything like watersheds with anadromous species. The other side of me cheers for the drought and the fires. Too many damned people, maybe they’ll leave. Colorado is a beautiful and fragile state that is already collapsing under this burden. The drought, the fires, should only serve to remind us clearly of this fact. Yet, one (of many things) that has me absolutely pissed off at our Federal/State Governments is the fact that, in this country, we have not properly addressed basic infrastructure regarding water. The money spent on the war on drugs could have funded a major public works effort in this regard. We should have a water pipeline grid and huge underground storage system. People with substance abuse problems can build it (and their lives and self-esteem) instead of languishing behind bars on our nickel while the farmer goes broke, the cost of food soars, my lawn dies, etc. This is just one aspect of the real cost of the war on drugs. There are many, many more. Including, entirely, September 11th, 2001. IMO. — TBone

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while the farmer goes broke, the cost of food

soars, my lawn dies, etc.<   Two outta three ain’t bad.   Harry TBone?  Meatloaf?  Hmmm!

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while the farmer goes broke, the cost of food soars, my lawn dies, etc.< Two outta three ain’t bad.

No sir. Two outta three am bad. — TBone

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http://wildlife.state.co.us/dowfish/index.asp  Prewitt Reservoir — Swimming, wading, boating, and fishing are banned at Prewitt State Wildlife Area until further notice due to a fish kill which is currently affecting the reservoir. This precautionary closure will stay in effect pending the diagnosis of the fish kill and recommendation by the Northeast Colorado Health Department. Fisheries experts believe the kill is being caused by a natural toxicity related to algae in the reservoir’s water. Closures do not apply to camping, wildlife watching, or hiking.

Response:

True, but the overall steady state regarding available water is definately enhanced by the water storage and diversion projects. I used to have anti-Two Forks propoganda on my truck,

I thought the fishermen fighting Two Forks was kind of weird. They wanted to protect their cherished Cheeseman Canyon from getting flooded although the reason why it is such a productive fishery is that it is a tailwater. now I’m not so sure that we shouldn’t dam the fuck out of Colorado. It’s not anything like watersheds with anadromous species.

Horseshit. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yet, one (of many things) that has me absolutely pissed off at our Federal/State Governments is the fact that, in this country, we have not properly addressed basic infrastructure regarding water. The money spent on the war on drugs could have funded a major public works effort in this regard. We should have a water pipeline grid and huge underground storage system. People with substance abuse problems can build it (and their lives and self-esteem) instead of languishing behind bars on our nickel while the farmer goes broke, the cost of food soars, my lawn dies, etc. This is just one aspect of the real cost of the war on drugs. There are many, many more. Including, entirely, September 11th, 2001. IMO. — TBone

Response:

This is just one aspect of the real cost of the war on drugs. There are many, many more. Including, entirely, September 11th, 2001. IMO.

        i am astonished that someone not directly involved in that conflict actually understands the enormous cost it has been to this country. your friend in the old north state wayno

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now I’m not so sure that we shouldn’t dam the fuck out of Colorado. It’s not anything like watersheds with anadromous species. Horseshit.

Explain please. TBone

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now I’m not so sure that we shouldn’t dam the fuck out of Colorado. It’s not anything like watersheds with anadromous species. Horseshit. Explain please.

Perhaps dams are a good thing for fishing. 1. We get great tailwaters for fishing big trout.  It appears that Wolfgang liks BIG trout, so this would be a good benefit for travelling fly fisherman to Colorado. 2.  To create dams, it requires quite a bit of mining of limestone or similar to create the cement necessary.  Not only is limestone mined, but aggregate is also mined to mix with the lime to create the cement.   The by product of all these mines are nice urban, or semi-urban bass ponds and other warm water ponds that can be used for the hook and cooler crowd. — Welcome to Montana, now go home! (Bumpersticker)

Response:

Perhaps this periodic event explains the absence of indignious trout of any kind in the N. Platte drainage (prior to stocking activities) <?.

Doubtful.  A drought event of sufficient severity to completely eliminate trout from the North Platte system most likely would have had the same effect on other systems near by, yet there are indigenous trout in the general area.   It is far more likely that trout (cutts) never made it in to the North Platte system.

Response:

…….Too many damned people, maybe they’ll leave. Colorado is a beautiful and fragile state that is already collapsing under this burden……

I sense an opportunity to be a trend setter….a real leader….someone to look up to….just what you’ve always wanted. Wolfgang guilt debased the meal.

Response:

now I’m not so sure that we shouldn’t dam the fuck out of Colorado. It’s not anything like watersheds with anadromous species. Horseshit. Explain please.

Simple. Free flowing rivers are beautiful, natural things that aren’t improved by a concrete dam. You’re a Colorado resident. Some things you might be interested in: Only 10% of agricultural land is irrigated Agriculture uses 94+% of the water used in Colorado This means that 94+% of the water used by the entire State for ALL uses for ALL people, is used on only 10% of the farm and ranch land. Agriculture and agricultural related businesses employ 2% of the people. Agricultural operations generate just over 1% of the States GAP (These statistics are from AG pages not anti AG propaganda) I’m not anti agricultural. Like you, I’m sure, I’d much rather have the farmers and ranches than the urban sprawl that’s taking over Colorado’s Front Range. However, I think there are alternatives to building more dams. Colorado water law is VERY complex and I don’t pretend to understand much of it. However, it is very antiquated and there are some changes, IMO, that need to be made. The "use it or loss it" law that forces farmers and ranchers to use "their quota" whether they need it that year or not, is one example. This gives the farmer/rancher NO incentive to conserve water. In fact, they are penalized if they do because they will lose the right to future use of the amount of water they conserved and lose its monetary value. When home developments or cities need more water rights for their residents, I’d like to see at least some of this water come from fees they would pay to farmers/ranchers to buy some of their water rights and to pay for more efficient irrigation and delivery systems for the farmer/ranchers. The majority of irrigation done in Colorado is flood irrigation which is VERY wasteful and most of the distribution is in open canals. The developers would get their water, the farmers/ranchers would still have the water they need because of improved irrigation/distribution techniques and the farmer/ranchers would get money by selling some of their water rights because they wouldn’t need as much. Willi

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Question:

Have you guys ever considered building a fire? Oh, right, that destroys the environment. Ever tried building a fire above tree line?  In a 60 knot gale?  In a rainstorm? Inside a tent?  In 4 ft. of snow?  Besides, having cooked over an open wood fire many times I know how difficult it is to keep the heat properly regulated.  No thank you.

Um, no, in such situations, I usually leave the cooking (well, it’s really just putting yak butter in the tea) to the Sherpas…..and yeah, the persnickedy heat regulation of my cooking appliance would be amongst my main concerns in such a circumstance, especially considering we started out fishing…. <G R

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Probably overkill if it’s going to be used exclusively as a streamside water boiler that lives in your fishing vest, but you won’t have to go through many MSR Whisperlites to make it economical in the long run if you use it for backpacking too. Can’t understand the aversion to the Whisperlite so evident in this group.  I’ve been using mine for two years without a hint of trouble. Great little stove in my opinion.

Five years on mine, great stove and a good price.      - Ken — ET1 – Evil Twin #1 "Guilt replaced the fun" – ROFF-Tim "Ethical conduct is purely a personal thing, and the only  arbiter of personal ethics is your own conscience."  - Mike Connor

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Can’t understand the aversion to the Whisperlite so evident in this group.  I’ve been using mine for two years without a hint of trouble. Great little stove in my opinion. Five years on mine, great stove and a good price.

I’ve got four gripes with the MSR Whisperlite. 1) Reliability. Even with the cone shaped fuel filters on the intake tube it clogs too easily and once clogged it’s a pain to unclog. I’ve also had a priming cup fall off. MSR was real good about sending a replacement but that’s hardly any consolation 20 miles into the backcountry and in the middle of a trip. 2) Simmer. We sometimes like to do something besides just boil water. The Whisperlite has two settings, off and blow torch. 3) White gas. If you want to save weight and pack the stove in one of your pots that pot will always have a taste of white gas. 4) Wind. That cheesy aluminum contraption is close to useless and in a wind you could use up two days of fuel boiling up 1 liter of water. I’ve had 3 in 15 years, at $60 a stove I’ve spent $180 on MSR Whisperlites. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I’ve got four gripes with the MSR Whisperlite. 1) Reliability. Even with the cone shaped fuel filters on the intake tube it clogs too easily and once clogged it’s a pain to unclog. I’ve also had a priming cup fall off. MSR was real good about sending a replacement but that’s hardly any consolation 20 miles into the backcountry and in the middle of a trip.

My shakerjet has performed flawlessly, never clogged. 2) Simmer. We sometimes like to do something besides just boil water. The Whisperlite has two settings, off and blow torch.

Gotta admit, it takes a lot of practice, but with the right amount of pressure and adjustments you can get it to simmer, but yeah it’s not easy. 3) White gas. If you want to save weight and pack the stove in one of your pots that pot will always have a taste of white gas.

Haven’t noticed. 4) Wind. That cheesy aluminum contraption is close to useless and in a wind you could use up two days of fuel boiling up 1 liter of water.

Agreed, the aluminum is worthless.  I usually build up a small stone or wood wall to block the wind when it’s a problem.  It’s usually not much of a problem since I spend much of my time down on the forest floor. YMMV,      - Ken — ET1 – Evil Twin #1 "Guilt replaced the fun" – ROFF-Tim "Ethical conduct is purely a personal thing, and the only  arbiter of personal ethics is your own conscience."  - Mike Connor

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Ever tried building a fire above tree line?  In a 60 knot gale?  In a rainstorm? Inside a tent?  In 4 ft. of snow?  Besides, having cooked over an open wood fire many times I know how difficult it is to keep the heat properly regulated.  No thank you. Um, no, in such situations, I usually leave the cooking (well, it’s really just putting yak butter in the tea) to the Sherpas…..and yeah, the persnickedy heat regulation of my cooking appliance would be amongst my main concerns in such a circumstance, especially considering we started out fishing….

LOL!

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I really like the ‘gaz’ stoves.  The cartridges are not compact, but they are inexpensive, very easy to light and use, and the fuel cannisters are cheap.

What he said.  Also, there is no fuel to spill and, in the 270/470 series, you can change canisters before they run empty.  Pizo ignition available. I gave up on the white gas/multi-fuel stoves a long time ago, even for extended backpacking trips.  I can’t imagine anything easier for a quick trailside or streamside lunch…   Cheers,  -Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – —  Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio  http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad  mp3 songs:  http://www.mp3.com/particlesalad

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Been fairly partial to my coleman peak stoves for a while now, not that small and light but they will boil a quart of water for that streamside irish coffee way fast. Flyfish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But now the best lightweight stove is available from Sierra Trading Post for $120. You’ve GOT to be kidding!  Propane burner?  Not in this lifetime Bubba!

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In 1969, I bought a terrific little stove from REI, the "Enders Baby." Far superior, IMHO, to any other backpacking stove. Now, after 30 years, it needs a new part, but it seems to be no longer available. Does anyone know anything about parts for this stove? vince norris

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I really like the ‘gaz’ stoves.  The cartridges are not compact, but they are inexpensive, very easy to light and use, and the fuel cannisters are cheap. What he said.  Also, there is no fuel to spill and, in the 270/470 series, you can change canisters before they run empty.  Pizo ignition available. I gave up on the white gas/multi-fuel stoves a long time ago, even for extended backpacking trips.  I can’t imagine anything easier for a quick trailside or streamside lunch…

Indeed, probably the only advantage to a white gas stove is its cold weather performance.  I use an MSR Rapidfire gas-cartidge stove most of the year, but it begins to flag when the temperature is below 40, and it’s not practical below freezing–just about like the kind of fishing I do. DS

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Been fairly partial to my coleman peak stoves for a while now, not that small and light but they will boil a quart of water for that streamside irish coffee way fast. Flyfish

Been using my coleman peak for over five years with no problems — can’t say the same for any of my previous stoves. On extended trips where weight and bulk are considerations, I use a Sierra stove. The thing works as advertised but really blackens the pots with soot. Yuck! It is a modern version of a hobo stove using a battery powered fan. No fuel to carry. If interested in a biased view go to http://yahi.csustan.edu/~gcrawfor/zip/zipstove.html (I agree with the site). The manufacturers site is http://www.gorp.com/zzstove/sierra.htm. Or you can get info on making  a very cheap alcohol stove that works at http://www.idi.ntnu.no/~ttr/stove.html.  

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In recent years, I have really enjoyed using the GAZ propane/butane stoves.  Mine has been extremely reliable, clean, simmers better than anything else, and couldn’t be simpler to use.  You do need to shelter the stove from the wind.  You can usually find the stove for about $20, cartridges are about $3. I started using this stove for bivies above timberline on climbs.  I wanted a stove I KNEW was going to light without all the attendant problems and mess of white gas. It has never let me down. Ted – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got four gripes with the MSR Whisperlite. 1) Reliability. Even with the cone shaped fuel filters on the intake tube it clogs too easily and once clogged it’s a pain to unclog. I’ve also had a priming cup fall off. MSR was real good about sending a replacement but that’s hardly any consolation 20 miles into the backcountry and in the middle of a trip. 2) Simmer. We sometimes like to do something besides just boil water. The Whisperlite has two settings, off and blow torch. 3) White gas. If you want to save weight and pack the stove in one of your pots that pot will always have a taste of white gas. 4) Wind. That cheesy aluminum contraption is close to useless and in a wind you could use up two days of fuel boiling up 1 liter of water. I’ve had 3 in 15 years, at $60 a stove I’ve spent $180 on MSR Whisperlites. — Ken Fortenberry

Before you buy.

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I’ve got four gripes with the MSR Whisperlite. 1) Reliability. Even with the cone shaped fuel filters on the intake tube it clogs too easily and once clogged it’s a pain to unclog. I’ve also had a priming cup fall off. MSR was real good about sending a replacement but that’s hardly any consolation 20 miles into the backcountry and in the middle of a trip. My shakerjet has performed flawlessly, never clogged.

Ditto. 2) Simmer. We sometimes like to do something besides just boil water. The Whisperlite has two settings, off and blow torch. Gotta admit, it takes a lot of practice, but with the right amount of pressure and adjustments you can get it to simmer, but yeah it’s not easy.

Definitely a pain in the ass.  My only real gripe with this stove. 3) White gas. If you want to save weight and pack the stove in one of your pots that pot will always have a taste of white gas. Haven’t noticed.

Ditto 4) Wind. That cheesy aluminum contraption is close to useless and in a wind you could use up two days of fuel boiling up 1 liter of water. Agreed, the aluminum is worthless.  I usually build up a small stone or wood wall to block the wind when it’s a problem.  It’s usually not much of a problem since I spend much of my time down on the forest floor.

My newest cook pot (MSR) matches the diameter of the aluminum wind screen pretty precisely.  Using this pot, I have no problems at all with the wind.

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I really like the ‘gaz’ stoves.  The cartridges are not compact, but they are inexpensive, very easy to light and use, and the fuel cannisters are cheap. —  Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio  http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad  mp3 songs:  http://www.mp3.com/particlesalad

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So is the Coleman Peak 1. Neither will fit in a vest, but will do just fine in a daypack. The peak 1 also has an integral fuel tank that will hold more than enough fuel for the day, or even an unplanned overnight, eliminating the need for a separate fuel bottle.

My best friend used to have a Peak 1 but eventually gave it up in favor of the smaller and lighter Whisperlite.  the Coleman stove DID have better control though.

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There was some discussion here lately about stoves that would fit in a vest and do a good job of boiling water for a streamside lunch. The best stove ever for this purpose is being discontinued and I don’t know why. I was reluctant to mention it before because frankly, it was quite pricey and Wayno would give me all sorts of shit for being a pretentious, yuppie spendthrift. But now the best lightweight stove is available from Sierra Trading Post for $120. Go to: http://www.sierratradingpost.com/ then do an Item Number Search on 64103. Highly recommended flyfishing or backpacking stove, IMHO. — Ken Fortenberry

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There was some discussion here lately about stoves that would fit in a vest and do a good job of boiling water for a streamside lunch. The best stove ever for this purpose is being discontinued and I don’t know why.

All the suckers already have one? I was reluctant to mention it before because frankly, it was quite pricey and Wayno would give me all sorts of shit for being a <CUT

Well, in case Wayno too busy to point out the painful truth… A TWO HUNDRED DOLLAR VALVE???  Well, OK, it is now only a HUNDRED AND TWENTY DOLLAR valve.  What are you, Cuz, a <PASTEpretentious, yuppie spendthrift? OPEC spends less on orbit valves….<G But now the best lightweight stove is available from Sierra Trading Post for $120. Go to: http://www.sierratradingpost.com/ then do an Item Number Search on 64103. Highly recommended flyfishing or backpacking stove, IMHO.

Well, at least it IS on sale, and it is a Primus, and it has a piezo igniter, (Sorry, I had some backed-up sarcasm from the buildup passing on the OED Gink definition earlier….) TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Ken Fortenberry

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Well, it takes a little bit longer to boil water, but the Trangia Westwind alcohol stove is less than $20, and is quite small enough to fit in a vest.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There was some discussion here lately about stoves that would fit in a vest and do a good job of boiling water for a streamside lunch. The best stove ever for this purpose is being discontinued and I don’t know why. All the suckers already have one? I was reluctant to mention it before because frankly, it was quite pricey and Wayno would give me all sorts of shit for being a <CUT Well, in case Wayno too busy to point out the painful truth… A TWO HUNDRED DOLLAR VALVE???  Well, OK, it is now only a HUNDRED AND TWENTY DOLLAR valve.  What are you, Cuz, a <PASTEpretentious, yuppie spendthrift? OPEC spends less on orbit valves….<G But now the best lightweight stove is available from Sierra Trading Post for $120. Go to: http://www.sierratradingpost.com/ then do an Item Number Search on 64103. Highly recommended flyfishing or backpacking stove, IMHO. Well, at least it IS on sale, and it is a Primus, and it has a piezo igniter, (Sorry, I had some backed-up sarcasm from the buildup passing on the OED Gink definition earlier….) TC, R — Ken Fortenberry

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Well, it takes a little bit longer to boil water, but the Trangia Westwind alcohol stove is less than $20, and is quite small enough to fit in a vest.

Have you guys ever considered building a fire? Oh, right, that destroys the environment. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Second that – The Trangia is awesome.  Highly recommended. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, it takes a little bit longer to boil water, but the Trangia Westwind alcohol stove is less than $20, and is quite small enough to fit in a vest.

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Can’t understand the aversion to the Whisperlite so evident in this group.  I’ve been using mine for two years without a hint of trouble. Great little stove in my opinion.

I’ve got it’s predecessor and it does the job for me too, FWIW. — Charlie…

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Can’t understand the aversion to the Whisperlite so evident in this group.  I’ve been using mine for two years without a hint of trouble. Great little stove in my opinion.

So is the Coleman Peak 1. Neither will fit in a vest, but will do just fine in a daypack. The peak 1 also has an integral fuel tank that will hold more than enough fuel for the day, or even an unplanned overnight, eliminating the need for a separate fuel bottle. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

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Have you guys ever considered building a fire? Oh, right, that destroys the environment.

Ever tried building a fire above tree line?  In a 60 knot gale?  In a rainstorm? Inside a tent?  In 4 ft. of snow?  Besides, having cooked over an open wood fire many times I know how difficult it is to keep the heat properly regulated.  No thank you.

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… A TWO HUNDRED DOLLAR VALVE???   …

A 4 ounce, titanium, $200 valve. Absolutely elegant in its simplicity and positively bomb proof for life. This stove has long been considered the creme de la creme of lightweight backpacking & mountaineering stoves. Probably overkill if it’s going to be used exclusively as a streamside water boiler that lives in your fishing vest, but you won’t have to go through many MSR Whisperlites to make it economical in the long run if you use it for backpacking too. — Ken Fortenberry

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But now the best lightweight stove is available from Sierra Trading Post for $120.

You’ve GOT to be kidding!  Propane burner?  Not in this lifetime Bubba!

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Probably overkill if it’s going to be used exclusively as a streamside water boiler that lives in your fishing vest, but you won’t have to go through many MSR Whisperlites to make it economical in the long run if you use it for backpacking too.

Can’t understand the aversion to the Whisperlite so evident in this group.  I’ve been using mine for two years without a hint of trouble. Great little stove in my opinion.

Response:

Hey Tony, I’ve heard of these but never understood how they worked – where could I get one? thanks babob Do any of you on the other side of the Atlantic use volcano kettles (Kelly and similar)?

Tony Deacon

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Hey Tony, I’ve heard of these but never understood how they worked – where could I get one?

Couldn’t find a URL, but: The Kelly Kettle Co Ltd Woolaway Chesterton Fields Farm Fosse Way Leamington Spa CV33 9JY England Tel/Fax  Int. +44 (0)1926 651460 (leave out 0 if dialling from overseas) Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Volcano kettles might be OK for Scottish Lochs, but open fires are generally prohibited by law on US western rivers during the dry season (fire hazards). I just bought a Primus PBS 2243  from a local REI-Coop sale. The whole stove stows away in a pouch about the size of my palm; Primus LP-gas canisters are available everywhere, including europe. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve read this thread with interest. I have one of the original MSR multi-fuel stoves that I bought 16 or 17 years ago. Great little stove, but damned expensive; the wind shield melted and I had some problems with blocked jets with some fuels. I think it now needs a pretty full service. Do any of you on the other side of the Atlantic use volcano kettles (Kelly and similar)? These are used by most of the gillies and anglers on the Irish lakes for the mandatory lunchtime brew. They consist of a simple aluminium water jacket. You stuff the chimney with twigs, bark; pine needles; twists of old newspaper, etc. and apply a match. It’s quite an efficient way to boil water, since much of the heat passes out through the water in the jacket, cf. up the flue. They are only for boiling water, but that seems to be all that most of you use a stove for. Cheap; simple; fuel efficient; last for years. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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What he said.  Also, there is no fuel to spill and, in the 270/470 series, you can change canisters before they run empty.  Pizo ignition available. I gave up on the white gas/multi-fuel stoves a long time ago, even for extended backpacking trips.  I can’t imagine anything easier for a quick trailside or streamside lunch…  Cheers, -Mark

I can’t argue with that Mark but after 20 yrs with the same pack stove, (the original design out over 100 yrs ago)  That would be the Optimus SVEA123R, might’ve been called something else way back then.  I finally had to order the first part for my stove last week, seems the airline baggage handlers were doing a test-to-destruction on the little plastic ice chest it was packed in.  The b*stards bent the windscreen so bad that it wouldn’t fit anymore.  One week and 20 bucks later it is good as new.  The folks who sent me the part also included a brochure for a Russian Army stove that is a perfect knockoff of the Optimus Hunter 8R, on sale in this country now for about 45 bucks.  My Optimus rides always in my pickup, and most mornings on my delivery trips it makes my coffee to my taste, not some swill you find in a truck stop.  Ok, call me picky…it’s never failed me and as a result ‘we’ have developed a burning relationship. ) Frank (fire in the hole) Church      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

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Hi again, Frank & Group! What he said.  Also, there is no fuel to spill and, in the 270/470 series, you can change canisters before they run empty.  Pizo ignition available. I gave up on the white gas/multi-fuel stoves a long time ago, even for extended backpacking trips.  I can’t imagine anything easier for a quick trailside or streamside lunch…  Cheers, -Mark I can’t argue with that Mark but after 20 yrs with the same pack stove, (the original design out over 100 yrs ago)  That would be the Optimus SVEA123R,

might’ve been called something else way back then.  I finally had to order

  As far as I know, its always been the Svea 123.  Did Optimus buy them out I wonder? the first part for my stove last week, seems the airline baggage handlers were doing a test-to-destruction on the little plastic ice chest it was packed in.  The b*stards bent the windscreen so bad that it wouldn’t fit anymore.  One week and 20 bucks later it is good as new.  The folks who sent me the part also included a brochure for a Russian Army stove that is a perfect knockoff of the Optimus Hunter 8R, on sale in this country now for

  You know, the Optimus 8R is the first backpacking stove I owned.  I put a lot ‘o miles on that little puppy.  In the end, I gave it to my Brother-in-law when I got my first GAZ stove.  As far as I know, he is still using it.  the fact that there are still Svea 123 stoves out there in use is excellent testament to their durability.   Yup, the reason I switched to GAZ stoves, (and lanterns), is ease of use and absence of white gas to spill.  One of the problems I experienced with white gas stoves had to do with gas being expanded out of the fuel tank and/or fuel bottle due to changes in altitude:  I would fill up stove and fuel bottles at my home, (sea level), and then drive up a trailhead at 7 or 8 thousand feet and _then_ start hiking up from there.  Often, fuel would be foreced out of the stove tank or fuel bottle, leaving me with much less fuel than I planned on _and_ getting white gas fumes and some liquid in my backpack….  I don’t do much backpacking in sub freezing temperatures any more, but the new butane/propane fuel mixture seems to work well in cool mornings at altitude.  (The old trick was to put the fuel canister in your sleeping bag to keep it warm.  I never did this.)   **Important recycling note**:  My local recycler accepts my used fuel canisters for recycling.  I’m not sure that all recycling centers will. If you plan on using GAZ products a lot, this recycling issue may be important to you.  If I couldn’t recycle GAZ fuel tanks, I probably wouldn’t use them myself….YMMV. about 45 bucks.  My Optimus rides always in my pickup, and most mornings on my delivery trips it makes my coffee to my taste, not some swill you find in a truck stop.  Ok, call me picky…it’s never failed me and as a result ‘we’ have developed a burning relationship. )

  Always nice to have something you can warm up to!  :-) Frank (fire in the hole) Church

  Cheers, happy trials, tight lines, and hot coffee!  -Mark

Response:

I’ve read this thread with interest. I have one of the original MSR multi-fuel stoves that I bought 16 or 17 years ago. Great little stove, but damned expensive; the wind shield melted and I had some problems with blocked jets with some fuels. I think it now needs a pretty full service. Do any of you on the other side of the Atlantic use volcano kettles (Kelly and similar)? These are used by most of the gillies and anglers on the Irish lakes for the mandatory lunchtime brew. They consist of a simple aluminium water jacket. You stuff the chimney with twigs, bark; pine needles; twists of old newspaper, etc. and apply a match. It’s quite an efficient way to boil water, since much of the heat passes out through the water in the jacket, cf. up the flue. They are only for boiling water, but that seems to be all that most of you use a stove for. Cheap; simple; fuel efficient; last for years. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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Question:

And of course Marinaro, Sawyer, Skues, Falkus, to name but a few.. Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HRBlaine: <<We determine greatness in a ball player by his stats.  How do you compile stats on a fly fisher?  What criteria could we use.< Simple enuf.  Is (s)he famous? Does (s)he fly fish? Mmmmmm, not good enough, really.  I’ve fished with a well known illustrator and he can’t fish worth a shit.  Eisenhower couldn’t catch fish in a freshly stocked stream in Maine.  Ted Williams was a great ball player who entertained himself in the off-season by fly fishing.  He also did fly fishing/sportsmen shows each spring when I was a kid.  He probably qualifies.  Names such as Wulff, Swisher, Kaufman, LaFontaine, Art Flick, Graham Marsh first come to mind.  And, of course, how can we forget the Halfordian himself, Halford. Dave L.

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

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come to mind.  And, of course, how can we forget the Halfordian himself, Halford. Dave L.

One of the greatest flyfishermen of all time was George Edward Mackenzie Skues. His analytical mind, the depth and thoroughness of his investigations and conclusions, and the wide front on which he applied them were breathtaking in their scope and ramifications. Compared to him Halford was a tyro and a bigot. TL MC

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Mike Connor: <<One of the greatest flyfishermen of all time was George Edward Mackenzie Skues. His analytical mind, the depth and thoroughness of his investigations and conclusions, and the wide front on which he applied them were breathtaking in their scope and ramifications. I had forgotten about him.  When reading about Halford a few years ago, someone told me about Skues, and you are correct in all aspects. Dave

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One of the greatest flyfishermen of all time was George Edward Mackenzie Skues. His analytical mind, the depth and thoroughness of his investigations and conclusions, and the wide front on which he applied them were breathtaking in their scope and ramifications. Compared to him Halford was a tyro and a bigot.

I’ve always been perplexed by attempts to identify the greatest "______" of the century, millennium, all time, etc.  In the first place, I don’t see the point. Secondly, how to choose from among all the obvious candidates given the arbitrary nature of the endeavor.  Third, and most important I believe, is the fact that we really don’t know who should even be considered as candidates.  For example, I suspect there is a very good chance that the greatest baseball player of the century is someone no one ever heard of who resided in The Dominican Republic or Cuba.  The greatest fly fisherman of the century might well be a Hungarian who never rose to public attention and who died in WWI.  The smartest person in the world is a Chinese peasant woman who never attended school; at least that is my bet for statistical reasons.  After all, I have NO other criteria by which to judge.  Even when we narrow the criteria by which we judge the "greatest whatever" to the point where the vast majority are automatically eliminated we virtually never get any great degree of consensus.  Even something as simple as "the greatest single season home run hitter in American professional baseball" is open to endless debate because the conditions under which the individual candidates played are so varied.

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After watching the Century’s Greatest Baseball Players, the thought occurred to me that it would be terrific to acknowledge the Century’s greatest flyfishers. Ted Williams would make both lists. Bob Elliott

Well, even though compiling a list of the Century’s greatest flyfishers strikes me as being almost as silly as a flyfishing tournament — turning something which is essentially non-competitive into some sort of game with winners and losers — I’d have to say that any such list would be incomplete without Bill Schaadt (sp?) and Roderick Haig-Brown (okay, he’s a gimme). So, I guess I just struck myself silly . – sid

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One of the greatest flyfishermen of all time was George Edward Mackenzie Skues. His analytical mind, the depth and thoroughness of his investigations and conclusions, and the wide front on which he applied them were breathtaking in their scope and ramifications. TL MC

Criterion is the key.  Arguements can, at least somewhat, be narrowed with their application.  Could we not say Lee Wulff for bringing fly fishing to the masses?  Like a fine steak or hardwood, it matters how you cut in relation to the grain. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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<SNIP Agreed.  But if we confine ourselves to known people then a relative judgement of their contributions is usually possible. As you say, no data is available on unknown people, and so including them in the deliberations really would be an exercise in futility. TL MC

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It occurred to me that all such deliberations are more or less arbitrary in any case. In the case of some sportsmen it is possible to base a decision on how many games they won, how many runs or hits ( or whatever ) they achieved. In many other cases this is not so. You are probably right that the whole thing is pointless, but then so is a great deal of human discussion and endeavour, so what the hell ! TL MC

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I think that we can rank the people that have contributed most to our sport, but not the "greatest" fly fishermen.  Most of a person’s ability to contribute to the sport depend on a number of factors other than skill in fly fishing.  Some of these are: the ability to write and get published, fame in areas other than fly fishing, an engaging personality, and of course money. Many of the most famous fly fishermen are not especially good anglers but are good at other things that make them famous. As Sid said, ours is not a competitive sport that is judged by results and statistics. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <SNIP Agreed.  But if we confine ourselves to known people then a relative judgement of their contributions is usually possible. As you say, no data is available on unknown people, and so including them in the deliberations really would be an exercise in futility. TL MC

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I nominate Don Bastian of Lycoming County, PA for his incredible tenacity on the water, his unparalled tying skills, his ability to take one look at a pool and to know it’s ways and feeding lanes intimately and for his legendary prowess as a nymph fisherman…  But mostly I nominate him because if he sees this, he will surely send me $20.00

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Mmmmmm, not good enough, really.<

Guess I forgot the <g.  I was inspired by Ted Williams. <g

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Wouldn’t that qualify George!  Or maybe George and TBone in a dead heat!

I think I would prefer the Estee Lauder model.< Me too. <g

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After watching the Century’s Greatest Baseball Players, the thought occurred to me that it would be terrific to acknowledge the Century’s greatest flyfishers. Ted Williams would make both lists. Bob Elliott

Response:

After watching the Century’s Greatest Baseball Players, the thought occurred to me that it would be terrific to acknowledge the Century’s greatest flyfishers. Ted Williams would make both lists. Bob Elliott

Bob, We determine greatness in a ball player by his stats.  How do you compile stats on a fly fisher?  What criteria could we use. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

After watching the Century’s Greatest Baseball Players, the thought occurred to me that it would be terrific to acknowledge the Century’s greatest flyfishers. Ted Williams would make both lists. Bob Elliott

Why ?

Response:

After watching the Century’s Greatest Baseball Players, the thought occurred to me that it would be terrific to acknowledge the Century’s greatest flyfishers. Ted Williams would make both lists. Bob Elliott

It was great to see Ted out there. It was equally great to see Pete Rose acknowledged for his lasting accomplishments. I was dismayed to see that jerk-off reporter "interview" Rose afterwords. What a moron that guy was. Pete, just having received the finest ovation and recognition from the Atlanta crowd is interviewed by a complete idiot. IMO, all athletes should band together and refuse to be interviewed by that jerk, effectively ending his "career". on-topic: I nominate Mark Cathey to the Century’s Greatest Flyfishers list. –Walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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It was equally great to see Pete Rose acknowledged for his lasting accomplishments.

I thought it was disgusting that they allowed that scumball into a major league ballpark. It was a mistake to allow him on the ballot in the first place but once the fans elected him they should have played a Rose video like they did for the dead guys. Under no circumstances should a low-life like Rose have been allowed to sully the national pastime in person. Pete, just having received the finest ovation and recognition from the Atlanta crowd is interviewed by a complete idiot.

IMO the Atlanta crowd has shit for brains and Jim Gray should be in the Hall of Fame. OBROFF: I nominate Watauga Walt, inventor of the foam humpy. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

We determine greatness in a ball player by his stats.  How do you

compile stats on a fly fisher?  What criteria could we use.< Simple enuf.  Is (s)he famous?   Does (s)he fly fish?

Response:

I thought it was disgusting that they allowed that scumball

into a major league ballpark. It was a mistake to allow him on the ballot in the first place but once the fans elected him they should have played a Rose video like they did for the dead guys. Under no circumstances should a low-life like Rose have been allowed to sully the national pastime in person.< Wake up alone with a hard-on this morning?

Response:

Simple enuf.  Is (s)he famous? Does (s)he fly fish?

Wouldn’t that qualify George!  Or maybe George and TBone in a dead heat! I think I would prefer the Estee Lauder model. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

HRBlaine: <<We determine greatness in a ball player by his stats.  How do you compile stats on a fly fisher?  What criteria could we use.< Simple enuf.  Is (s)he famous?   Does (s)he fly fish? Mmmmmm, not good enough, really.  I’ve fished with a well known illustrator and he can’t fish worth a shit.  Eisenhower couldn’t catch fish in a freshly stocked stream in Maine.  Ted Williams was a great ball player who entertained himself in the off-season by fly fishing.  He also did fly fishing/sportsmen shows each spring when I was a kid.  He probably qualifies.  Names such as Wulff, Swisher, Kaufman, LaFontaine, Art Flick, Graham Marsh first come to mind.  And, of course, how can we forget the Halfordian himself, Halford. Dave L.

Response:

IMO the Atlanta crowd has shit for brains and Jim Gray should be in the Hall of Fame.

Ken, I’m no fan of Rose. Afterall, he did "sully" the game (and worse yet, ended Fosse’s career in a home plate collision in a All Star game) as did Mays (who was on stage) and Steinbrenner (felony conviction) and countless others who have misstepped at times. However, Rose’s onfield accomplishments speak loudly for the man. How can you ignore the greatest hitter the game has ever seen? Jim Gray should be in the Hall of Shame. OBROFF: I nominate Watauga Walt, inventor of the foam humpy.

My greatness is not in tying the fly, my "greatness" is getting you to fish it without a hook to rising/striking fish on Wilson’s Creek, unquestionably a feat of excellence and a prank I wholeheartedly deny q;^) Waldo — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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We determine greatness in a ball player by his stats.  How do you compile stats on a fly fisher?  What criteria could we use.< Simple enuf.  Is (s)he famous? Does (s)he fly fish?

Hm…..Bill Clinton is famous….Herbert Hoover was famous….Dwight Eisenhower was famous….Jimmy Carter is famous…….

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… My greatness is not in tying the fly, my "greatness" is getting you to fish it without a hook to rising/striking fish on Wilson’s Creek, unquestionably a feat of excellence and a prank I wholeheartedly deny q;^)

I’m proud to have provided you good old boys with such mirth and merriment and I must admit, as fishing pranks go, that was without a doubt one of the finest. I should have known there’d be a price to pay for being a yankee in Avery county. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

It was great to see Ted out there. It was equally great to see Pete Rose acknowledged for his lasting accomplishments. I was dismayed to see that jerk-off reporter "interview" Rose afterwords. What a moron that guy was. Pete, just having received the finest ovation and recognition from the Atlanta crowd is interviewed by a complete idiot. IMO, all athletes should band together and refuse to be interviewed by that jerk, effectively ending his "career".

I never liked Pete Rose.   I don’t know exactly why, but he always just irritated me.   Fortunately for me, I was an American League fan, so I saw very little of him.   Screw that "Charlie Hustle" bs.   That glorified crap ended the career of another good ballplayer (Fosse) in a meaningless exhibition game. Having put those cards on the table, I agree with Walt.   That NBC reporter was a Grade-A jerk, and Rose handled the ambush as well as a man could. They may have been good questions, but it was the wrong place and the wrong time.   A complete lack of respect for the game. Joe F.

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Question:

Does anyone know if a larger reel foot is available for a Ross Gunnison G3 reel? The slip ring on my fly rod’s reel seat has streched enough that it slides all the way over my reel foot, and the nut on the reel seat cannot tighten the reel down.  The reel seat is a Struble U3 reel seat, with a removeable fighting butt attachment on it, so I don’t think I can take the reel seat apart and put a new ring on the reel seat.  If a larger foot can be put on the reel (there are four screws holding the current foot on) I think the slip ring should work ok.  I fixed the problem by putting three layers of duct tape on the reel seat, to minimize the spacing inside the ring with the reel foot in place.  This is not the solution I want to live with.  A new reel is not a solution I want to consider either, since I still have my old Pflueger Medalist that fits fine. Thanks, Mark Johnson A Sorry if this question has something to do with fly fishing.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know if a larger reel foot is available for a Ross Gunnison G3 reel? The slip ring on my fly rod’s reel seat has streched enough that it slides all the way over my reel foot, and the nut on the reel seat cannot tighten the reel down.  The reel seat is a Struble U3 reel seat, with a removeable fighting butt attachment on it, so I don’t think I can take the reel seat apart and put a new ring on the reel seat.  If a larger foot can be put on the reel (there are four screws holding the current foot on) I think the slip ring should work ok.  I fixed the problem by putting three layers of duct tape on the reel seat, to minimize the spacing inside the ring with the reel foot in place.  This is not the solution I want to live with.  A new reel is not a solution I want to consider either, since I still have my old Pflueger Medalist that fits fine. Thanks, Mark Johnson A Sorry if this question has something to do with fly fishing.

Apology accepted.  Just don’t do it again, OK? I used to have a Gunnison 3 with the same problem.  Apart from tape, the only thing I can suggest, is try to find a reel that has the same screw pattern and then order just the foot from that manufacturer.  If I remember correctly, the G3 has a screwed-on reel seat.  (If it’s riveted, you’re screwed.)   Most other reel manufacturers make thicker feet.  Don’t drop your G3 on anything hard either, the foot is awful thin.  I had to work on mine to remove a ding before it would fit on the rod again.  Also, don’t overheat the drag (i.e. no Chinook or salt fishing.)  You’ll wear (melt?) the point off the plastic pawl. Peter

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D433-Mark_E_Johnson(Mark)x3037 schrieb in Nachricht … Does anyone know if a larger reel foot is available for a Ross Gunnison G3 reel?

Hi Mark, I had this problem on a rod which I did not want to take apart either.  I built a new reel foot.  Any good fitter or mechanical workshop should be able to do this for you at minimal cost. It mainly depends on how the reel foot is attached to the reel. Mine was held by four small screws, so the modification was easy. I  got a secondary advantage out of the mod too, by making the reel foot come off at an angle from the reel, I moved the reel up the rod about one and a half centimeters effectively. This makes for better casting and holding, less fatigue, and my fingers or hand no longer touch the metal of the reel seat. This makes it much more comfortable. Hope this helps ! Tight lines  ( and reel seats ! ) Mike Connor

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Probably — I had the same problem with the G4 and a Scott rod.  I asked the dealer involved if he could help, and a week later, Ross sent a larger reel foot that works great.  I believe that Ross sent the dealer a kit with a bunch of feet for various reels in their line. Rob

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Question:

There are two schools of thought on this: !.  Too many guides restrict the rod’s action. 2. Too few guides allow the line to drag against the rod when it flexes. Take your pick. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO http://users.ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS Hi there! I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2 different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use? Jarkko —

—                                             |    Jarkko Karvinen                            |    Student of biochemistry                    |  E. coli happens  University of Turku, Finland               |    tel. +358 (0)2 3338059                        |

— – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2 different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use?<BR The general rule of thumb is one guide for every foot plus the stripper, so 8 is the general rule of thumb.  One thing you might try is to tape the guides on with both the spacing for the 9 guides and the 8 guides and them string a line trhough them and see how the rod flexes.  Basically, the more guides the more friction.  But fewer is not better either – find a hapy medium by flexing the rod with line through the guides and make sure there are no dead spotsor places where the line touches the rod. Or – you might try calling St Croix.  I bet they would give you the guide spacing they use on the factory rod. Al Manchester, NH

      I know you are not the original poster but he may read this. I have an 8′ 8wt, a 7′6" 3wt and a 6′6" 5wt. The question gave me food for thought so I counted the guides on each, they all have 8, stripper included. with the exception of stripper and tip-top are all snake guides, all are factory. I also looked up the guide kits all are 8 guide.                                                              John Popp                                                           in Sanford Fl.

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I know you are not the original poster but he may read this. Ihave an 8′

8wt, a 7′6" 3wt and a 6′6" 5wt. The question gave me food forthought so I counted the guides on each, they all have 8, stripperincluded. with the exception of stripper and tip-top are all snakeguides, all are factory. I also looked up the guide kits all are 8guide. I don’t doubt that all your rods in various lengths have the same amount of gudes.  This is a subjuect that is debated as much as anythng in fly fishing. As I said "the general rule of thumb" is one per foot plus a stripper guide. Many manufacturers leave a guide or two off to save money, some rods cast better with fewer or more guides. There are a couple of ways to determine guide spacing.  Clemens and Anglers Work Shop as well as some otheres I would guess sell a tool that will allow you to test the spacing of the guides with the rod under load.  There is a program that Cane rod builders use that was written by Wayne Catanach that calculates the spacing based on the number of guides you choose and the placement of the stripper guide.  Several books list guide placement charts as well, and Blue Ridge Rod Company includes a very good one in their catalog. I personally have always used the 1 guide per foot plus the stripper for my rods.   In Skip Morris’s book "The Custon Graphite Rod" and in Handcrafting Custom Graphite Fly Rods" by L.A. Garcia, this is the information that they provide, although the spacings are a bit different and Skip Morris provides some good insight as to the actuual placement of guides based on the rod and the fishermam it is intended for, as well as some general guide lines for placement of guides on soft and fast action rods.  It is interesting reading. The mark of a true custom rod may be going to the extra step of testing the guide placement with the rod under stress.  I have done this a few times but the standard guide placements on the graphite rods I have built have all been so close that I dont worry about it any more. It’s an interesting debate for rod builders.  Could you tell me where you looked up the guide kits for these rods?  Might just be a catalog I am missing:))))) Al Manchester, NH

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Hi there! I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2 different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use? Jarkko —                                             |    Jarkko Karvinen                            |    Student of biochemistry                    |  E. coli happens  University of Turku, Finland               |    tel. +358 (0)2 3338059                     |

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I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2

different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use?<BR The general rule of thumb is one guide for every foot plus the stripper, so 8 is the general rule of thumb.  One thing you might try is to tape the guides on with both the spacing for the 9 guides and the 8 guides and them string a line trhough them and see how the rod flexes.  Basically, the more guides the more friction.  But fewer is not better either – find a hapy medium by flexing the rod with line through the guides and make sure there are no dead spotsor places where the line touches the rod. Or – you might try calling St Croix.  I bet they would give you the guide spacing they use on the factory rod. Al Manchester, NH

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Hi there! I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2 different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use? Jarkko

I don’t know how prevelent St Croix rods are in Finland, but your best bet would probably be to find an assembled rod from the manufacturer and copy their guided size and placement. There are some rod shop owners on this group, maybe one of them can measure it for you if you can’t find the rod in your area. Good luck,      - Ken

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Hi there! I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2 different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use?

Jarkko, here’s the spacing (and 7 Fuji guides) that I use on a 7ft fly rod. Note that the last (8mm2) is a 2-footed guide, the rest are single foot guides, and the measurements are in inches starting from the tip. If I recall, I got these recommendations from L.G. Custom Tackle (G. Loomis dealer and custom rod builder) many years ago. IMHO I think 9 guides is way too many for anything under 8′. I prefer the single footed Hardloy or SIC Fuji’s to the traditional snake guides which allow the line to slap against the blank. 7′ – 4(6mm), 9(6mm), 15(6mm), 22(7mm), 30(7mm), 40(8mm), 52(8mm2) Now you have 3 choices David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

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Question:

Hi, I’m fairly new to the Charlotte, NC area and would like to hear from anyone who has fished any area streams/rivers. I have looked on several FF pages for locations, but I would like to hear from someone with first-hand experience. I won’t mind a bit of a drive(it looks like I have no choice anyway!). Thanks in advance.

Matt,    You can take US77 north to Elkin on the tale Hwy 21 to Stone Mountain State park "about 90 min.". There they have a delayed harvest stream that is well stocked. They also have a stream called Bullhead that you can pay $4 to fish a section. Only one person can fish a section. It is catch and release with barbless hooks only. The fish in Bullhead are hard to catch but the are rather large. Another 15 miles North is the New River. It has Musky, Smallmouth and Rock "Redeye" Bass. It offers several places where you can wade however you may want to wait until it get’s warmer unless you are going after Musky. The New River runs in both NC and VA but NC has an agreement with VA where NC license are valid in parts of VA.    I hope this helps. Good Fishing, Shawn

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Hi, I’m fairly new to the Charlotte, NC area and would like to hear from anyone who has fished any area streams/rivers. I have looked on several FF pages for locations, but I would like to hear from someone with first-hand experience. I won’t mind a bit of a drive(it looks like I have no choice anyway!). Thanks in advance.

This is a test, but i have to say that the best fishing is in the north of Sweden

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Hi, I’m fairly new to the Charlotte, NC area and would like to hear from anyone who has fished any area streams/rivers. I have looked on several FF pages for locations, but I would like to hear from someone with first-hand experience.   I won’t mind a bit of a drive(it looks like I have no choice anyway!). Thanks in advance.

Response:

Hi, I’m fairly new to the Charlotte, NC area and would like to hear from anyone who has fished any area streams/rivers. I have looked on several FF pages for locations, but I would like to hear from someone with first-hand experience.   I won’t mind a bit of a drive(it looks like I have no choice anyway!). Thanks in advance.

Matt:         Depending upon the type of fishing you want to do, you have a boatload of choices!  If you are into warm water fishing for largemouth bass and various panfish species, Lake Wylie south of Charlotte, and Lake Norman (600 miles of shoreline for the entire impoundment) north of town are excellent choices, within 30 minute drive.  For smallmouth, I am unaware of any rivers nearby; you may have to drive north, up here to Virginia.  Other rivers for warm water species include the Catawba (down towards Gastonia), and various tributaries.  The Blue Ridge Parkway/Appalachian mountains are only about a 90 minute drive from town, and offer a lot of small streams, many carrying stocked or native/gone wild trout.  One place I went while living in NC was Julian Price Park, right on the Parkway.  Boone Fork flows through, and has some good holes down the Boone Fork Trail, about 1 mile from the picnic area.  Further afield, the area around Asheville (2-3 hour drive) and Cullowhee/Cherokee reservation has a number of great trout waters.  Much more information is available in a small book called "Flyfishing in the Southern Appalachia", which is available at Barnes and Noble bookstore (at lwast I have seen it there).            Insofar as quality of fishing, I have heard great things about Lake Norman bass.  Since it is a relatively recently flooded impoundment, the cover is superb, and you can nose around for years and not fish it all. The trout in the mountains are also great, but if you expect monsters, do not be disappointed.  This is definitely small stream fishing.  Your roll cast will get quite a workout. Hope some of this is helpful. Dan Johnson

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Question:

Has any one had any experience with the RIO VersiTip?  Any info would be appreciated. Thanks – Chris Chris Thompson

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Has any one had any experience with the RIO VersiTip?  Any info would be appreciated. Thanks – Chris Chris Thompson

Not experienced with the RIO line but their leaders and leader material are great products. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: BT’s Fly Fishing Products Has any one had any experience with the RIO VersiTip?  Any info would be appreciated. Thanks – Chris Chris Thompson Not experienced with the RIO line but their leaders and leader material are great products. Al Beatty

Hello, I’ve only got a very limited bit of experience with the leaders and leader material, but I have used their level shooting heads, and I hope the sink tips they include with the line are better made than the shooting heads that they sell (although I know that they are the same).   I bought a RIO type 6, 9 wt level shooting head that I chopped in 1/2 and looped the end to use on my home-grown sink tip lines.  The coating of this 1/2 section of line is now almost gone after very little use and I’ve been forced to toss it and use the second 1/2 already!  My SA type 4, type 2 and DWE heads have lasted many years under far more and harder use.  In fairness, the SA heads do cost about 2x as much as the RIO heads.  Anyway, I’m a big advocate of doing it yourself when it comes to a sink tip system – but be advised that it certainly doesn’t save any money over this system you mention, you just get a rig suited to your particular needs.  For a home-grown, you are looking at a $50 steelhead taper WF line, and at least 2 shooting heads (each of which will make 2 sink tips though) at $25 each for a total of ~$100.  I think this is about the same price as the versa-tip system isn’t it? I should also mention that this cheapie RIO type 6 head doesn’t sink quite as fast as the type 4 SA head – which is backward.  I’ve heard this complaint from several fellow steelheaders.   No flames.  I’ve nothing against Jim Vincent, RIO, or anything, and I know that SA makes their lines. cheers,         -tgades — Tony Gades Seattle, WA USA   website:   http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades

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Question:

Hi ! my name is Frank , I’m working in a fishing store here in canada , I have 5 years of flyfishing experience in streams , pounds , and lakes. I’m offering you the oportunity to buy fishing equipements via E-Mail (flyfishing or else) Just E-Mail me what you need and I’ll do my best to send it to you. (Sorry our catalog is not ready yet )

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Hi ! my name is Frank , I’m working in a fishing store here in canada , I have 5 years of flyfishing experience in streams , pounds , and lakes. I’m offering you the oportunity to buy fishing equipements via E-Mail (flyfishing or else)

Just a suggestion Frank:  Advertising in a discussion group is generally discouraged.  While your message was not really intrusive and you’re certainly not the only one here that has equipment to sell participating in the discussions here is going to go a long way to attracting customers rather then just soliciting for our business.   Al Beaty is a perfect example of this.  He contributes more to this (and the flytying) group then just about anyone and his signature has just a brief notice that he also is in the business of selling flyfishing equipment.  I am more likely to do business with him then someone that only solicits.  Now, if he’d just carry some of the stuff I’m looking for I might actually buy something from him. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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Hi ! my name is Frank , I’m working in a fishing store here in canada , I have 5 years of flyfishing experience in streams , pounds , and lakes. I’m offering you the oportunity to buy fishing equipements via E-Mail (flyfishing or else)

5 years ? Shit Frank…i’ve stood at *one hole* for 5 years…waiting for a 10 year old fish ! Man…it took me 5 years just to tie one Tbone Streamer Special ! I use flylines that are twice that old…! TimW

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(Will) writes:

Yo, lighten up dude!! A guys got to start somewhere!!  Someone who’s been fishing for 1 week can still call himself a flyfisher! Darren.

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(Will) writes: Yo, lighten up dude!! A guys got to start somewhere!!  Someone who’s been fishing for 1 week can still call himself a flyfisher! Darren.

        yeah, and he can piss on my leg and tell me it’s rainin’, too.  but i’m not gonna let him get away with calling himself a thunderstorm.         a. wayne harrison

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Question:

<snip but it also has these heavy nylon cord loops on both sleaves and on the back.  What are these used for?  I think it’s some kind of fly-fishing kind of thing.<snip

The loops are for little cable retracter thingys to attach to, which in turn attach to yer fly floatant and nippers, etc…. (:-) Jim

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I just bought a really coool Columbia shirt with all kinds of niffty pockets with Velcro closures and stuff, but it also has these heavy nylon cord loops on both sleaves and on the back.  What are these used for?  I think it’s some kind of fly-fishing kind of thing. We don’t know much about fly-fishing down here in Texas.  In fact, our idea of fishing is to set a tub of clean water down by a muddy creek and wack the fish on the head with sticks as they wiggle up on the bank trying to get to the clean water. Thanks, Gary Joe

Gary,         Those are called ’stringers’, and are used to ’string up’ the guy wearing the shirt for being an elitist, yuppie flyfisherperson.  You’ll notice that the location of the loops prevents the wearer of the shirt from reaching the attaching harness to get loose.  Once the elitist, yuppie flyfisherperson (EYF) is strung up the rest is like shooting fish in a tub of clean water!  :^) Charley

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I just bought a really coool Columbia shirt with all kinds of niffty pockets with Velcro closures and stuff, but it also has these heavy nylon cord loops on both sleaves and on the back.  What are these used for?  I think it’s some kind of fly-fishing kind of thing. We don’t know much about fly-fishing down here in Texas.  In fact, our idea of fishing is to set a tub of clean water down by a muddy creek and wack the fish on the head with sticks as they wiggle up on the bank trying to get to the clean water. Thanks, Gary Joe      <Opinions expressed and/or implied are not necessarily those of UPR         "I don’t know why I do stuff…I just do it."  - Bart Simpson

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Question:

On short _backpacking_ trips, I often like to carry in a bunch of good food….I really out did myself by overstuffing an expedition backpack for a three day trip.  

Of course, the best gourmet food isn’t that which is packed in.  On a backpack last August in the Holy Cross Wilderness, our first-night’s meal was cutthroat trout panfried with "scaly urchin" mushrooms.  Too bad it wasn’t berry season, or we would have had a fitting dessert for our wilderness-gathered meal. — /    "How to Lose Weight, Increase Your Sex Appeal and Make a Fortune on the   _][  Information Superhighway" would outsell the Bible, at least briefly.

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        I like using a combination of Freeze Dried Food, MREs,         homemade trail mix and lots of beef jerky flavored with         cyan pepper.         I like adding kool aid, gatorade, instant coffee General         International Foods coffee, and Milk man packets.         A lot of the items are repackaged to save on weight and size.         -Dave         AT&T Denver

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I’m a simple eating soul as well.  Oatmeal in the morn,…

I think basically most people who travel are this way.  It can vary with the required travel distances.  Usually, I go for simplicity, but a couple weekends ago I poached salmon while others dug snow caves, but that was a short ski in (note in winter you can afford to take frozen foods on short trips, etc.).  A favorite climbing partner of old was a great cook, and he could carry the weight to help. However, on longer trips, you would do best to read some of the experiences of some major expeditions and the importance of food and morale.  Read Snyder’s Hall of the Mountain King and the defending White Winds (comments about chili), locate accounts of the 1971 International Everest Expedition (all menu planning done by a vegetarian who brought in half a ton of a type of pumpernickle bread which only he would eat, and that was merely one food). The occasional elaborate meal is fine, but that’s not quite the purpose for being there.  If you want fine dining, stay in the big city. Remember, rule number 1 on a big, long trip: NEVER offend the camp cook.

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well since u asked heres my $0.02 worth- i usally hike with a guy who is a weight freak the lighter the better, our trips vary in length 2-14 days and take place in all seasons and all over the place, our favorite so far is the wind river range.  anyway im more of lesiurely kinda guy and prefer to take a bit more weight to enhance the atmosphere food wise.  so i always get tea and something good to eat in the morning, but im not below a pop tart as long as it’s toasted and the frosted kind, but lunches are a big deal so into the pack goes smoked, vacumed sealed salmon, smoked goda(sp?) chese, red onions, and bagels. dinners are alos good i mean its fun to laze around camp cooking up a storm after a good day hiking with some killer fly fishing thrown in, so we bring along freeze dried tortellini, spices, small 6oz cans of tamoto paste,  lentils, rice some other groovy things, lots of chocolate, and of course to top it all of as much single malt scotches that we can carry. oh my goodness i think im ready to hit the trail.  but anyway u light weighters or no hassle cooking folks should try the other route sometime cooking forces u to slow down and drink it all in.  u don’t have to cook or eat at camp, maybe next to a nearby lake/stream, or out on a cliff with a view then u split up the chores from night to night and the drugery isn’t so bad.  sorry for being so long winded.                                                    later,                  relax, don’t worry have a home brew!

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ENMfoods on short trips, etc.).  A favorite climbing partner of old was a ENMgreat cook, and he could carry the weight to help. On short _backpacking_ trips, I often like to carry in a bunch of good food (as long as it it doesn’t take too long to prepare–don’t want to cut into day hiking and swimming opportunities) and more than the usual assortment of luxury items and gadgets.  On one trip, about fifteen years ago, I really out did myself by overstuffing an expedition backpack for a three day trip.  My partners dubbed me "Piano Man" (as in piano mover) for my ability to haul all that weight up a mountain, and the name stuck.  Now, whenever I don a pack in their presence (even a day pack), I am immediately transformed into Piano Man.  Kinda like Clark Kent and his sky blue tights, I suppose. <G ENMThe occasional elaborate meal is fine, but that’s not quite the purpose ENMfor being there.  If you want fine dining, stay in the big city. I am reminded of the camp I past on the fifth morning of a Sierra trip.  There was a sprawling camp by the side of the trail with a new three-man tent in its center.  The campers were apparently still asleep, but I felt as though I had gotten to know them just the same: the pair of crystal wine glasses and the empty bottle perched on the edge of a large fire ring seemed as easy to read as any face. Gotta admit: there ain’t any restaurants in the big city with that kinda atmosphere. . . . ENMRemember, rule number 1 on a big, long trip: NEVER offend the camp cook. Even if he serves moose turd pie, right? <G —  * SLMR 2.1a * Visualize whirled peas.

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I’m a simple eating soul as well.  Oatmeal in the morn, 10 oz. of trail mix for snacking all day, four sailor boy flat biscuits and either peanut butter or cheese for lunch, and rice, noodles or potato based dinner with dried lentil, split pea, or black bean soup from the organic grocery, all melded together with parmesian and different strong spices.  On longer hikes I carry about 3 lbs per day of food, and for anything less than two weeks around 2 lbs.  

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I enjoy getting fancy at camp for dinner after a long strenuous day in the wilderness.  Part of the pleasure is the illusion of "invulnerability" while in the woods.  I have even been known to drag along some home brewed beer. (See "Beer in the woods…"  elsewhere in this conference.) OTOH, I belive breakfast should consist of boiling water for coffee and oatmeal, rinse the dishes and hit that trail before 9:00 am.                 And There is the Problem My wife’s idea of a pleasant vacation requires a leasurly four course breakfast, complete with lots of dishes.  While I’m chomping at the bit to get up the mountain before the temperature hits 90, she is just getting her pancake flipping technique down. — David M. Weaver    San Francisco State University   School of Business

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I’m a little more extreme than you, in that I no longer see any point in cooking.  I’d rather save the weight and not have to wash dishes and pots.

Now I’m curious!  What do you take for calories that lets save wieght and carry NO pots and pans?  Must be short trips. Have you been in the high altitude (10-14k) without serious carbos, protein, etc.? I spend 7-10 days in a place like the Wind River Range and if I don’t carry serious food I’m too week to hump it.  My pack usually starts out about 75lbs. and drops to about 60.  I do wish I could figure out a way to eat enough calories without having food take up 20% of pack weight.

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I like it both ways.  I bring a lot of powerbars & ramen for the trail and some good dishes for camp.  I eat so much it might as well be good.   I like dishes that are simple to fix and taste good (and to heck with the weight) A few favorites: Pasta with cheese and sun-dried tomatoes,

Yup, sun dried tomatos are fantastic.  I add them to the water right away then add the pasta, reice, lentils or whatever.  Add some spices and freeze dried vegies and you an make just about anything.  I’m not vehetarian, but I find the taste and texture of FD Tomatoss to be a very good meat substitute. Very highly recommended! Tortellini with pesto (get the fresh pasta and pesto at the supermarket, it’s easy as a TV dinner)

If you pack the sause in a nalgene the morning of the trip, you can lug it in. makes for a great first night dinner.  Good sauses are really hard to make from dry ingredients.  I’m always looking for good sauce recepies for the trail. Fried Rice with fresh fish

When you can catch’em<g. Pancakes  - Nothing like flipping cakes on a mountaintop all morning.

Generally, too fuel consuming, time wasting, but pure heaven!  If you try bringing a few eggs along they will really spiff up the cakes.  I like to make them extra thick and put orange pieces in them.  Cook very slow with butter.  Make big pot of coffee ahead of time, to while away the time.  Sometimes we even pack up early and get going so we can stop for the ultimate pancake breakfast.  Can make an high point to any trip. Grilled cheese sandwiches – yum! Regards, Kelly

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| This is a subject that I have always wanted to bring up. For me eating is | just something I do to fuel my body on the trail. I don’t make a big deal | out of it, the simpler the better. For breakfest I eat outmeal, snack on | GORP or powerbars through out the day and then usually have some rice and | ramen soup for dinner or a dehydrated meal in a bag. All my cooking | consists of boil water, add, wait a little then eat. If I am just going | for a overnighter or 2 night trip I sometimes just buy a couple of pizzas | wrap them up and snack on cold pizza all weekend. | I’m a little more extreme than you, in that I no longer see any point in cooking.  I’d rather save the weight and not have to wash dishes and pots.

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This is a subject that I have always wanted to bring up. For me eating is just something I do to fuel my body on the trail. I don’t make a big deal out of it, the simpler the better. For breakfest I eat outmeal, snack on GORP or powerbars through out the day and then usually have some rice and ramen soup for dinner or a dehydrated meal in a bag. All my cooking consists of boil water, add, wait a little then eat. If I am just going for a overnighter or 2 night trip I sometimes just buy a couple of pizzas wrap them up and snack on cold pizza all weekend. Now I have packed with ppl who basically eat just as well in the backcountry then they do at home. Different dishs everyday, spices galore, etc…. It amazes me sometimes. I just like to keep it simple and light, no extras needed. This is me, what aabout you? I am just curious of all the different how, what, whys etc. of others in this group. Sean (who would never bake a cake then make a cup of capachino (sp?) in the backcountry)

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Well, I’m with you on this one.  For me, the simpler the better, but I can see the benefits of bringing a gourmet along.  Generally, when I camp, I’m concerned with the weight of my food, and that’s it.  It’s not because I wouldn’t want to eat well, it’s just that I’m lazy.  Also, I guess that eating poorly appeals to my romantic vision of hiking/camping.  You know, roughing it.  Burning a hot dog on a stick seems more appropriate than breaking out the fois gras.  Seems stupid, huh?

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: This is a subject that I have always wanted to bring up. For me eating is : just something I do to fuel my body on the trail. I don’t make a big deal I am exactly the opposite:  I enjoy preparing elaborate meals on the trail. In part, this is because I’m from New Orleans.  Food is more than just fuel here, it’s a way of life.   Partly, it’s just the challenge of figuring out how to accomplish the seemingly impossible:  baking biscuits on a backpacking stove or producing a cheesecake in the deep woods. Another reason:  I’m a Scoutmaster, and much of my camping is done with Boy Scouts.  An essential element of the Scouting program is that the *boys* plan the outings, including the menus.  Left to their own devices, they would have pop-tarts for breakfast, candy bars for lunch, and canned spaghetti for dinner.  Being a strong believer in letting them run their own program, I don’t interfere when they plan their menus.  I *do*, however, try to set an example.  When they are eating their canned spaghetti, they are watching me enjoy my fruit salad, jerky stew, and fresh-baked biscuits.  I make enough to let them all have a taste, but not enough to feed them a meal.  On the *next* trip, guess what they want to eat? Another factor:  The areas where we camp have a tremendous supply of firewood, and it’s a lot easier to prepare an elaborate meal with a campfire than with a single-burner stove. — "In the old days, being crazy meant something.                I don’t speak  Nowdays, EVERYBODY’S crazy."                                 for Tulane.                             — Charles Manson

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