Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All that said they sure run well and only time will tell if all those moving parts really cause that much trouble. I suppose the timing belt is the big issue but I don’t see any dire warnings in my shop manual about crashed valves. From what I see the oil change is just the cost of the filter and a few bucks worth of oil (every 100 hours). Since I was burning over a pint of oil an hour that TCW3 adds up pretty fast. The reality is, if a fuel injected 2 stroke takes a crap offshore you probably ain’t fixin it either. I’ll take my chances. Being able to idle a mile up the canal and not stall in a cloud of smoke when I get close to the dock makes it all worthwhile. BTW Mercury 40-60 HPs are shipped "wet" and horizontal so leaking must not be a problem. Mine was ready to start when I opened the crate. What happens when you are 10 miles offshore and the timing belt breaks on one of these fancy new 4 strokes?  Do the valves get squashed? You may not have to mix oil with gas, but you have to change the oil and oil filter every so often.  How much will this cost?  Yamaha oil filters cost $25 to $35 a piece ! 4 strokes have more moving parts than 2 strokes – more parts to break and more expensive annual maintenance.  How much does a valve adjustment cost on one of these new 4 strokes? Many of the smaller (under 25 hp) 4 stroke outboards cannot be laid on their side because the oil sump is not sealed.  For someone like me who uses a portable 15 hp outboard on an inflatable which is deflated after every use, the 2 stroke is the only way to go.

I have a carbureted 2 stroke – no computer or electronics to crap out anytime.  7 years old and still going with only spark plug and lower gearcase lube changes.

Response:

Suzuki just came out with a 140 HP Four Stroke that weighs less than a 150 Two Stroke and has equal performance.  I think it was said earlier that you shouldn’t pull info out of your ass.  If you don’t know the facts, shut the F^ck up.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Even better,  a 2002  Yamaha 40 HP 2 stroke weights 194 lbs,  and a 2002 Yamaha 40 HP 4 stroke weights 181 lbs. In other words, the Yamaha 4 stroke weights 13 lbs. LESS than the Yamaha 2 stroke in the 40 HP motor. Try checking Yamaha’s web site and the specifications pages for their motors. Just bought one and I won’t be toting around that heavy 2 cycle oil anymore either. People need to check the web  sites of these manufacturers before they start throwing out fantasy figures about weight problems with 4 strokes.  (or of course just continue to  pull figures out of your ass)

Where do these weight figures come from – a brochure or website?  Ha !!  I trust those about as much as I trust Bill Clinton !!! I bet they weighed those 4 stroke motors dry. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s see, A Yamaha 50 2 stroke weighs 194 lbs. Mercury 50 2 stroke weighs 199 lbs. Mercury 50 4 stroke weighs 236 lbs. Honda 50 4stroke weighs 202 lbs. Not exactly 80 to 100 lbs.  In fact the Honda is a whopping 8 lbs heaver than the Yamaha and 3 lbs heaver than the Merc. Yes, it appears that 4 stroke engines are the future motor.  But keep in mind that 4 stroke are heavier than the old 2 stroke.  In the 40 to 50 hp they can range from 80 to over a 100 pounds more than the 2 stroke. Interesting fact that I did not know which I receive from an old boat and motor mechanic. If you have an older boat, let’s say in the era of 1985, the boat plate may say it will take up to a 45 hp engine.  These boats were rated for 2 stroke not 4 stoke as there were not many 4 strokes around then. Putting a 4 stroke on one of these older boats will take the rear weight up almost a 100 lbs.

Response:

Even better,  a 2002  Yamaha 40 HP 2 stroke weights 194 lbs,  and a 2002 Yamaha 40 HP 4 stroke weights 181 lbs. In other words, the Yamaha 4 stroke weights 13 lbs. LESS than the Yamaha 2 stroke in the 40 HP motor.

Interesting that on the same web page, the 4 stroke Yamaha 30 weighs 198 lb. My guess, the 4 stroke 40 is listed for 181 lb with short shaft, manual start, manual tilt. The 4 stroke 30 comes only with long shaft, electric start, power trim&tilt, same as the 2 stroke 40 hp. Mod.

Response:

I bet they weighed those 4 stroke motors dry.

Yup that 3 quarts of oil and 24 oz of 90w will really pack on the pounds. Me and the truck driver picked up my 60EFI Big Foot and it was still in the crate.

Response:

What happens when you are 10 miles offshore and the timing belt breaks on one of these fancy new 4 strokes?  Do the valves get squashed? You may not have to mix oil with gas, but you have to change the oil and oil filter every so often.  How much will this cost?  Yamaha oil filters cost $25 to $35 a piece ! 4 strokes have more moving parts than 2 strokes – more parts to break and more expensive annual maintenance.  How much does a valve adjustment cost on one of these new 4 strokes? Many of the smaller (under 25 hp) 4 stroke outboards cannot be laid on their side because the oil sump is not sealed.  For someone like me who uses a portable 15 hp outboard on an inflatable which is deflated after every use, the 2 stroke is the only way to go. For most weekend boaters, the 2 stroke outboard is the more long term economic choice even if gas costs $2.50 per gallon. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

All that said they sure run well and only time will tell if all those moving parts really cause that much trouble. I suppose the timing belt is the big issue but I don’t see any dire warnings in my shop manual about crashed valves. From what I see the oil change is just the cost of the filter and a few bucks worth of oil (every 100 hours). Since I was burning over a pint of oil an hour that TCW3 adds up pretty fast. The reality is, if a fuel injected 2 stroke takes a crap offshore you probably ain’t fixin it either. I’ll take my chances. Being able to idle a mile up the canal and not stall in a cloud of smoke when I get close to the dock makes it all worthwhile. BTW Mercury 40-60 HPs are shipped "wet" and horizontal so leaking must not be a problem. Mine was ready to start when I opened the crate. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What happens when you are 10 miles offshore and the timing belt breaks on one of these fancy new 4 strokes?  Do the valves get squashed? You may not have to mix oil with gas, but you have to change the oil and oil filter every so often.  How much will this cost?  Yamaha oil filters cost $25 to $35 a piece ! 4 strokes have more moving parts than 2 strokes – more parts to break and more expensive annual maintenance.  How much does a valve adjustment cost on one of these new 4 strokes? Many of the smaller (under 25 hp) 4 stroke outboards cannot be laid on their side because the oil sump is not sealed.  For someone like me who uses a portable 15 hp outboard on an inflatable which is deflated after every use, the 2 stroke is the only way to go.

Response:

One exception.  Why can’t I buy a pair of 4-stroke 150s or 175s  to replace my aging Yamahas??? pontificated: # Hello Enn, # # Thanks for the info.

My guess is this: the purveyors of such possibilities don’t yet see the market willing to pay the excessive premium they charge for their higher horsepower four stroke engines. Relative to what they’d like to charge for a four stroke 175, the two strokes of that power are inexpensive. The guys who are buying the 200-225 four strokers don’t seem to mind giving away the excessive bucks. — Harry Krause – - A red is any son-of-a-bitch who wants thirty cents when we’re paying twenty five. – John Steinbeck

Response:

Yes, it appears that 4 stroke engines are the future motor.  But keep in mind that 4 stroke are heavier than the old 2 stroke.  In the 40 to 50 hp they can range from 80 to over a 100 pounds more than the 2 stroke. Interesting fact that I did not know which I receive from an old boat and motor mechanic. If you have an older boat, let’s say in the era of 1985, the boat plate may say it will take up to a 45 hp engine.  These boats were rated for 2 stroke not 4 stoke as there were not many 4 strokes around then. Putting a 4 stroke on one of these older boats will take the rear weight up almost a 100 lbs.

Response:

Let’s see, A Yamaha 50 2 stroke weighs 194 lbs. Mercury 50 2 stroke weighs 199 lbs. Mercury 50 4 stroke weighs 236 lbs. Honda 50 4stroke weighs 202 lbs. Not exactly 80 to 100 lbs.  In fact the Honda is a whopping 8 lbs heaver than the Yamaha and 3 lbs heaver than the Merc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, it appears that 4 stroke engines are the future motor.  But keep in mind that 4 stroke are heavier than the old 2 stroke.  In the 40 to 50 hp they can range from 80 to over a 100 pounds more than the 2 stroke. Interesting fact that I did not know which I receive from an old boat and motor mechanic. If you have an older boat, let’s say in the era of 1985, the boat plate may say it will take up to a 45 hp engine.  These boats were rated for 2 stroke not 4 stoke as there were not many 4 strokes around then. Putting a 4 stroke on one of these older boats will take the rear weight up almost a 100 lbs.

Response:

A hundred pounds out there on the end of that 12 inch jackplate on that Gambler is a little different than a gas tank in the middle of the boat.  That 4 stroke won’t work very well if it is underwater.  

Del, on the other hand, the guy with that setup doesn’t think twice about putting 200 lbs. of batteries right up against the transom, nor does he hesitate to hit the fill switch on his livewell, adding another 200 lbs. of water to the rear third of the boat.  Moving one battery forward will largely offset the penalty of a heavier motor. — Rich Stern www.nitroowners.com – The Nitro and Tracker Owners Web Site www.mypontoon.com – The Pontoon Boat Web Site

Response:

Even better,  a 2002  Yamaha 40 HP 2 stroke weights 194 lbs,  and a 2002 Yamaha 40 HP 4 stroke weights 181 lbs. In other words, the Yamaha 4 stroke weights 13 lbs. LESS than the Yamaha 2 stroke in the 40 HP motor. Try checking Yamaha’s web site and the specifications pages for their motors. Just bought one and I won’t be toting around that heavy 2 cycle oil anymore either. People need to check the web  sites of these manufacturers before they start throwing out fantasy figures about weight problems with 4 strokes.  (or of course just continue to  pull figures out of your ass) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s see, A Yamaha 50 2 stroke weighs 194 lbs. Mercury 50 2 stroke weighs 199 lbs. Mercury 50 4 stroke weighs 236 lbs. Honda 50 4stroke weighs 202 lbs. Not exactly 80 to 100 lbs.  In fact the Honda is a whopping 8 lbs heaver than the Yamaha and 3 lbs heaver than the Merc. Yes, it appears that 4 stroke engines are the future motor.  But keep in mind that 4 stroke are heavier than the old 2 stroke.  In the 40 to 50 hp they can range from 80 to over a 100 pounds more than the 2 stroke. Interesting fact that I did not know which I receive from an old boat and motor mechanic. If you have an older boat, let’s say in the era of 1985, the boat plate may say it will take up to a 45 hp engine.  These boats were rated for 2 stroke not 4 stoke as there were not many 4 strokes around then. Putting a 4 stroke on one of these older boats will take the rear weight up almost a 100 lbs.

Response:

So, what is your explanation of why there are no 150-175 HP 4strokes? del cecchi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Even better,  a 2002  Yamaha 40 HP 2 stroke weights 194 lbs,  and a 2002 Yamaha 40 HP 4 stroke weights 181 lbs. In other words, the Yamaha 4 stroke weights 13 lbs. LESS than the Yamaha 2 stroke in the 40 HP motor. Try checking Yamaha’s web site and the specifications pages for their motors. Just bought one and I won’t be toting around that heavy 2 cycle oil anymore either. People need to check the web  sites of these manufacturers before they start throwing out fantasy figures about weight problems with 4 strokes.  (or of course just continue to  pull figures out of your ass) Let’s see, A Yamaha 50 2 stroke weighs 194 lbs. Mercury 50 2 stroke weighs 199 lbs. Mercury 50 4 stroke weighs 236 lbs. Honda 50 4stroke weighs 202 lbs. Not exactly 80 to 100 lbs.  In fact the Honda is a whopping 8 lbs heaver than the Yamaha and 3 lbs heaver than the Merc. Yes, it appears that 4 stroke engines are the future motor.  But keep in mind that 4 stroke are heavier than the old 2 stroke.  In the 40 to 50 hp they can range from 80 to over a 100 pounds more than the 2 stroke. Interesting fact that I did not know which I receive from an old boat and motor mechanic. If you have an older boat, let’s say in the era of 1985, the boat plate may say it will take up to a 45 hp engine.  These boats were rated for 2 stroke not 4 stoke as there were not many 4 strokes around then. Putting a 4 stroke on one of these older boats will take the rear weight up almost a 100 lbs.

Response:

I imagine bass boat guys will show up at the 4 stroke dealer when their bans 2 strokes on the lakes. I hope the manufacturers are ready for them.

Response:

| says… | | One exception.  Why can’t I buy a pair of 4-stroke 150s or 175s  to | replace my aging Yamahas??? | | pontificated: | | # Hello Enn, | # | # Thanks for the info. | | | | — | 23′ Grady White, out of Oak Island, NC. | To Mail – Remove the Bee Bees from my address. | | ______ | Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = | http://www.binaries.net | | Because the biggest market for 150 to 175 hp is Bass Boats and a 4 | stroke 150/175 would be too heavy? | | del cecchi | | | | I think this whole over blown ,over weight thing goes out the window as | soon as you load up your coolers full of beer and and extra friend nad | top off the gas tank!! | | I remember buying a 14speed bike (with a 3lb frame) and weighing | everythin in grams to be real light. As soon as I filled my water | bottles, that theory went out the window!! A hundred pounds out there on the end of that 12 inch jackplate on that Gambler is a little different than a gas tank in the middle of the boat.  That 4 stroke won’t work very well if it is underwater.   — Del Cecchi   Personal Opinions Only

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One exception.  Why can’t I buy a pair of 4-stroke 150s or 175s  to replace my aging Yamahas??? pontificated: # Hello Enn, # # Thanks for the info. — 23′ Grady White, out of Oak Island, NC. To Mail – Remove the Bee Bees from my address.

______ Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION =

http://www.binaries.net Because the biggest market for 150 to 175 hp is Bass Boats and a 4 stroke 150/175 would be too heavy? del cecchi

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One exception.  Why can’t I buy a pair of 4-stroke 150s or 175s  to replace my aging Yamahas??? pontificated: # Hello Enn, # # Thanks for the info. — 23′ Grady White, out of Oak Island, NC. To Mail – Remove the Bee Bees from my address. ______ Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = http://www.binaries.net Because the biggest market for 150 to 175 hp is Bass Boats and a 4 stroke 150/175 would be too heavy? del cecchi

I think this whole over blown ,over weight thing goes out the window as soon as you load up your coolers full of beer and and extra friend nad top off the gas tank!! I remember buying a 14speed bike (with a 3lb frame) and weighing everythin in grams to be real light. As soon as I filled my water bottles, that theory went out the window!!

Response:

Hello Enn, Thanks for the info. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Same in all European countries. Hi All, I just read a good article in the latest issue of "Saltwater Flyfishing" magazine by veteran outdoor writer Bob Stearns. He states that 2 stroke motors are on the way out and that 4 strokes are going to be taking over the US market. I know this will be the fact in the United States but I can’t say much about other countries. Keep this in mind when buying a used or new boat. — Bill Kiene

Response:

Same in all European countries. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I just read a good article in the latest issue of "Saltwater Flyfishing" magazine by veteran outdoor writer Bob Stearns. He states that 2 stroke motors are on the way out and that 4 strokes are going to be taking over the US market. I know this will be the fact in the United States but I can’t say much about other countries. Keep this in mind when buying a used or new boat. — Bill Kiene

Response:

Hi All, I just read a good article in the latest issue of "Saltwater Flyfishing" magazine by veteran outdoor writer Bob Stearns. He states that 2 stroke motors are on the way out and that 4 strokes are going to be taking over the US market. I know this will be the fact in the United States but I can’t say much about other countries. Keep this in mind when buying a used or new boat. — Bill Kiene

Response:

Question:

A big "thanks"to the guys who have so readily replied to my request for help with some very sound advice. I really appreciate your words of wisdom and will be endeavouring to put them into practice. I’m also impressed with this forum – so much response so quickly! Regards, Brian Meredith Nelson New Zealand — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Surf Usenet at home, on the road, and by email — always at Talkway.

Response:

Brian: Two other thoughts on the situation. 1.  Another common way to spook fish in NZ is with your line itself.  You need to make sure that your leader is long enough — generally we fished with 12-15 foot leaders.  They’re a bitch to cast, but necessary.  Ideally, you want to put the fly 6 feet in front of the fish (though depending on depth, you may need more), so you still have 6 or 8 feet of leader behind the fish before it attaches to your fly line. 2.  Generally NZ fish aren’t particularly "leader shy", but in slow moving, crystal clear water they may see your tippet.  Generally we would fish with 3x fluorocarbon tippet, but in the situation you describe, I might be tempted to put on a 4x or even 5x fluorocarbon.  That’s only a 4 lbs. breaking strength, but might be necessary. Keep in mind that the deeper the fish, in smooth water, the wider his angle of view.  This is counter intuitive:  the fish sees MORE from a deep lie than from a shallow lie.  So if you’d been approaching fish successfully in shallow water, and judged how close you could get from that, you may get too close.  I made that mistake myself stalking a 10 lbs.+ brown cruising a regular beat in a deep hole, to my everlasting regret.  I got where I thought it would be safe, but he had stopped cruising. Also, you’ve got to stay much further back from a fish in smooth water than in roily water.  A fish lying deep in smooth water may be literally impossible to catch.  E.g. if you have to cast well in front, in order to give time for the nymph to sink, any cast that would present the fly properly would "line" the fish.  Your only hope in that kind of situation would be to wait for the wind to riffle the surface of the water.  Then you might just get a cast in. Michael — www.geocities.com/yosemite/falls/3363

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some advice for a novice please? I am fortunate to live in New Zealand’s South Island where there are some of theworld’s most renowned trout waters. They are populated mostly by brown trout which are notoriously difficult to catch. This pat weekend I was fishing the source of the Gowan River as it emerges from lake Rotoiti in the Nelson lakes national Park. I spotted my fish, a beautiful looking brown sitting on station in crystal clear and slow moving water. I stalked him with great care and there followed an hour of some of my most careful casting, some of which (not all by any means!) placed my size 6 pheasant tail nymph gently upstream of his mouth before drifting majestically over him. And nothing. He did not move. He did not strike. He just stayed on station and ignored that nymph and the four other varieties I tried. So what was I doing wrong? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. BrianM — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Surf Usenet at home, on the road, and by email — always at Talkway.

Response:

<< stalked him with great care and there followed an hour of some of my most careful casting, some of which (not all by any means!) placed my size 6 pheasant tail nymph gently upstream Egads, Brian!  A size *6* pheasant tail

        i figured (fugured?) that size 6 was a typo. wayno

Response:

brianm wrote Some advice for a novice please?

[wily trout story snipped] Next time you see a big fish on station in ultra clear, smooth water, try observing him (without him observing you) for a while to see how he is feeding.  Is he on the bottom?  Just below the surface but never breaking it?  Occasionally sipping? Also, try taking a little mesh net with you to see what’s in the water. Those little nets they sell for tropical fish aquariums work pretty good, but for faster results, try 2-3 square feet of nylon mesh (you can get at any hardware store).  It’s a little cumbersome but at worst, you’ll get an interesting cross section of some of the insects in the water and at best, you just might have a pattern in your box. —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

<<even peter charles has failed to catch a fish; or, at least, legend would have it that way. It is true.  I have witnessed it.  Of course Peter had gotten into the Sleeman’s and had mistaken the broom in the cabin for his fly rod. Dave LaCourse

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This pat weekend I was fishing the source of the Gowan River as it emerges from lake Rotoiti in the Nelson lakes national Park. I spotted my fish, a beautiful looking brown sitting on station in crystal clear and slow moving water. I stalked him with great care and there followed an hour of some of my most careful casting, some of which (not all by any means!) placed my size 6 pheasant tail nymph gently upstream of his mouth before drifting majestically over him. And nothing. He did not move. He did not strike. He just stayed on station and ignored that nymph and the four other varieties I tried. So what was I doing wrong? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

I’ve had the good fortune to fish the South Island in two trips, and I envy your location. I agree with Dave that a size six may be too big.  However NZ nymphs do tend to the larger sizes — mostly 10-14 in my experience (rarely as small as 16, but 6 is HUGE).  You should check with local anglers/shops for advice. Several other points: Often, if the fish is in a comfortable, deep lie, it will not move even if spooked.  So you could easily have spooked it and not realized it.   Besides actually seeing you, if it was a bright sunny day, you could have spooked it with a reflection or a shadow.  Do you have a silver or gold reel?  Other silver metal that might flash?  Even black or dark colors, if glossy, can send a reflection on a bright sunny day that will put off a wary NZ trout. Shadows are especially treacherous if the sun is low and behind you.  Your body and  rod will then cast a shadow upstream. It’s actually very hard to cast lines near a wild NZ trout for an hour without spooking it.  So my guess would be the trout was spooked and was just holding its lie. Also, were there other fishermen around?  YOU might not have spooked it, but someone could have fished to it before you showed up.  This is particularly likely if the fish is in an obvious lie (as this one seems to be). Also, NZ fish will rarely go for a fly pattern once refused.  So, for example, if it saw the PT and decided not to take it (say because you dragged it) you MUST change patterns.  The fish may not have been spooked, simply keyed into some other fly. In general, if you’re pretty sure you covered a NZ fish with a fly once, and it doesn’t take, you should change flies immediately.  (The art is to be sure you’ve covered the fish — that comes with experience.  I had a day on a small stream in NZ where the fish would only take if the fly was DIRECTLY on their nose.  I mean six inches off, which normally is fine, would not induce a strike.  You had to keep casting until you got it right). But generally, there’s no point in chucking the same fly over and over again.  If you’re sure you’ve covered a fish, you should change flies. Again, check with your local shop.  But cased caddis, brassies, etc. might draw a strike that a PT wouldn’t.  It’s not unusual to try 4 or 5 different patterns, and occasionally you can draw a strike on the 5th pattern.  Keep in mind that every time you cast to a NZ fish, you risk spooking him.  So try to make very cast count.  If you think you’ve covered the fish, change flies.  Don’t screw around. If you’re working a fish without any luck, stop after a few casts and watch it.  If it hasn’t been spooked, you should be able to see it nymphing — occasional left or right swings to take a fly.  If it’s glued to a spot without moving, it’s likely spooked.  Waiting a few minutes may let the fish go back on the feed, assuming it wasn’t badly spooked. When all else fails, chuck a Wooly Bugger upstream and across, and strip it by his nose.  I’ve never actually had it work, but I have had totally unresponsive fish at least follow the fly before refusing it.  One of these days, I’m sure, it will work. Michael — www.geocities.com/yosemite/falls/3363 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

<< stalked him with great care and there followed an hour of some of my most careful casting, some of which (not all by any means!) placed my size 6 pheasant tail nymph gently upstream Egads, Brian!  A size *6* pheasant tail?  I should think the fish would be more comfortable ingesting a size 14 -18 ptail.  I may be missing something here, but I have never seen a ptail tied larger than a size 12.  What size tippet did you have? A #6 hook would equate to a 1X or 2X tippet. Big is not necessarily always "better", Brian. Try smaller nymphs, smaller tippet (maybe even fluorocarbon). Of course a size 2X tippet with a #6 pheasant tail would make a wonderful trolling machine.   d;0)  You ain’t trollin’, are you, Brian?     <G Dave LaCourse

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some advice for a novice please? I stalked him with great care and there followed an hour of some of my most careful casting, some of which (not all by any means!) placed my size 6 pheasant tail nymph gently upstream of his mouth before drifting majestically over him. And nothing. He did not move. He did not strike. He just stayed on station and ignored that nymph and the four other varieties I tried. So what was I doing wrong? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. BrianM

    *assuming you didn’t actually spook him*…let me repeat that: *assuming you didn’t actually spook him*, then you were doing *nothing* wrong.  you were offering fake food to an animal that didn’t want to eat. in short, you were "fishing".  while the same anomaly will continue to occur throughout your fishing career, take heart:  it is a noble endeavor, and your occassional failures make you part of an ever-growing club.     even peter charles has failed to catch a fish; or, at least, legend would have it that way. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Surf Usenet at home, on the road, and by email — always at Talkway.

Response:

Some advice for a novice please? I am fortunate to live in New Zealand’s South Island where there are some of theworld’s most renowned trout waters. They are populated mostly by brown trout which are notoriously difficult to catch. This pat weekend I was fishing the source of the Gowan River as it emerges from lake Rotoiti in the Nelson lakes national Park. I spotted my fish, a beautiful looking brown sitting on station in crystal clear and slow moving water. I stalked him with great care and there followed an hour of some of my most careful casting, some of which (not all by any means!) placed my size 6 pheasant tail nymph gently upstream of his mouth before drifting majestically over him. And nothing. He did not move. He did not strike. He just stayed on station and ignored that nymph and the four other varieties I tried. So what was I doing wrong? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. BrianM — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Surf Usenet at home, on the road, and by email — always at Talkway.

Response:

Question:

I remember–some years ago–someone announcing a nearly comprehensive database of articles published in Fly Fisherman magazine…..anybody know who that was, or where such a database exists?       Also, is there a homepage for Fly Rod and Reel? Silvio Calabi? Fly Tackle Dealer? — /*  */

Response:

I remember–some years ago–someone announcing a nearly comprehensive database of articles published in Fly Fisherman magazine…..anybody know who that was, or where such a database exists?      Also, is there a homepage for Fly Rod and Reel? Silvio Calabi? Fly Tackle Dealer?

Try the below address.  The data base was set up by Don Phillips. http://www.flyfishing.com/search/ Mike Santangelo http://www.nwlink.com/~fishnet/

Response:

Question:

Need advice on where to look for  an inexpensive (<$100) 4 peice pack rod (preferably 9′ 6 wt)–used or new.  If anyone knows of a good

Look for glass rods with the Abu or Fenwick name — probably no longer sold new, but the old ones must be somewhere…. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Need advice on where to look for  an inexpensive (<$100) 4 peice pack rod (preferably 9′ 6 wt)–used or new.  If anyone knows of a good starting point would appreciate a tip!

Response:

Need advice on where to look for  an inexpensive (<$100) 4 peice pack rod (preferably 9′ 6 wt)–used or new.  If anyone knows of a good starting point would appreciate a tip!

For the same money, you might be able to get a better quality rod by going to a two piece rod.  Put it in a schedule 40 PVC tube and use it for a walking stick.  It helps me a lot crossing streams and going up/ down steep inclines.  The thin wall PVC won’t hold up as well if you really put your weight on it (like when you need it most).   Rob

Response:

: For the same money, you might be able to get a better quality rod by : going to a two piece rod.  Put it in a schedule 40 PVC tube and use it : for a walking stick.  It helps me a lot crossing streams and going up/ : down steep inclines.  The thin wall PVC won’t hold up as well if you : really put your weight on it (like when you need it most).   Rob, I also use two-piece rods hiking and backpacking.  I carry them in a sturdy PVC tube and use the tube as a walking stick.  If I ever fell right on top of it. . . well I think I would rather have the rod break than me (but I am not too sure). Schedule 40 PVC?  Hmmm.  I guess I will know what to ask for next time I acquire a PVC rod tube.  Thanks for the terminology. Cheers, Burnaby, BC

Response:

Check and see if you can find a st. Croix dealer in canada. I bought two 4 pc.    pack

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Hi, If you are into building your own rod the River’s Edge in Bozeman, MT has Sage second blank (4 peice pack rods) for about $130.00.  If you think you might be interested you can call them at 406-586-5373. Good Luck Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (catalog avail)

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Al, Thanks for the post.  I saw your message of Jan 4 regarding the River’s Edge and the sage seconds.  We live in Chicago and have a tough time finding a source for seconds, especially travel rods at this price! Bryan and company at rivers edge were quite helpful.  I just purchased two of the blanks and there in the mail now.

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St. Croix is available in Canada at a decent price.  Diawa makes a 4 – 5 wt. that fishs very well.  Pack rods at low prices can be hard to find.  Good luck. Peter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Check and see if you can find a st. Croix dealer in canada. I bought two 4 pc.    pack

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Check the Cabela’s 1996 Spring catalog.  They’re listing a 4pc. pack rod blank (9′/6wt I think) for less than $50.  They list it as an import, but who knows.

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I looking for an moderately priced pack rod, and have found a Cabela’s Fish Eagle 8′ 4wt. for #116.  Anybody out there have any opinions about the rod?

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I really like the St. Croix Imperial, 8′ for 4/5 in a 4 piece … rod holder included for around $125. Also it has a lifetime guarantee … I like the intermediate action so much that I am fishing it almost as my #1 rod. bob vorel

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Question:

Looking for info on fishing Yosemite rivers. Planning a Spring ‘96 trip with the family.   Thanks, Russ.

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If you’re backpacking, try out the Tuolumne below Glen Aulin, anywhere along it down to Hetch Hetchy. It’s a serious hike, be prepared.  You can walk in to the falls at Glen Aulin, and fishing the pool at the bottom is fun. You can backpack into some great lakes, like Benson or Smedberg.  While fishing in the back country can be good, fishing off the trail (even a mile) can be terrific.  It’s the crowds, man, you got to get away from the hordes of people who descend upon Yosemite.

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Question:

Anyone have any tips on flyfishing for Mooneye in the Caledonia, Cayuga area of the Grand River. Many Thanks in Advance — gp

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Anyone have any tips on flyfishing for Mooneye in the Caledonia, Cayuga area of the Grand River.

My experience on the Ottawa R. has been: 1 — can be caught only when rising to some sort of a hatch (otherwise live deep, it seems.) 2 — need fine tippets and matching at least size of natural. 3 — feed in schools but are easily scared;  when you wade towards a school they sheer off;  you have to wait until they come within casting range. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

I most certainly a novice at Fly fishing, but I catch enough fish and have fun. The other day though I caught a fellow angler looking down his nose at me like I was some sort of kook. I had a fish on the line (a little one as is my usual luck) and was reeling it in.  I later saw this gentleman bringng hsi fish in by pulling the line with his free hand and letting it tangle around his legs. I was raised as a spin fisherman, so my instinct is to use the reel. I also know both sides of the argumant and have seen and heard many experts advocate fishing fighting both ways (reel or hand). So my question is, what really is the best way. I mostly fish for trout in the 8 to 18 inch range, though 12 to 14 is about average for around here. I also catch bass on the same rod. Pulling the line can be a pain, but so can trying to reel up the extra line  after setting the hook before the fish takes off.  – Thanks –Grant in PA

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I generally let the fish decide!  Seriously, I let the fish pull the line out until I’m on the reel, then play it from there.  If it’s a wee one, I generally pull it in by hand.  The important thing is to get the fish to hand, using whatever technique works best at the moment. — Jim Benenson                 Los Alamos, New Mexico, USA "To protect your rivers, protect your mountains"       Emperor Yu of China, circa 1600 B.C.

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writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I most certainly a novice at Fly fishing, but I catch enough fish and have fun. The other day though I caught a fellow angler looking down his nose at me like I was some sort of kook. I had a fish on the line (a little one as is my usual luck) and was reeling it in.  I later saw this gentleman bringng hsi fish in by pulling the line with his free hand and letting it tangle around his legs. I was raised as a spin fisherman, so my instinct is to use the reel. I also know both sides of the argumant and have seen and heard many experts advocate fishing fighting both ways (reel or hand). So my question is, what really is the best way. I mostly fish for trout in the 8 to 18 inch range, though 12 to 14 is about average for around here. I also catch bass on the same rod. Pulling the line can be a pain, but so can trying to reel up the extra line  after setting the hook before the fish takes off. — Thanks –Grant in PA

Grant, it is a good habit to get the fish on the reel as quickly as possible.  If the fish you have on is large, you will have more control, more mobility, reduce line ware and lessor chance of fly line wraping around any and all weeds, twigs, etc. Fight fish that are either large, on in heavy water require the fisher person to be opposit the fish or below the fish for control measures.   Try and do the above with line around your feet. Best of Luck Joe

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First rule of thumb, do what is easiest and most comfortable for YOU. don’t let anyone "look down his nose at you" because you are doing something the WRONG way. If you are used to playing a fish on the reel, do so, this will especially help when you catch a larger fish. The drag on your reel was designed to help you with this. Smaller fish can be played by just stipping line, but again there really is no right or wrong way. TieFlie

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Question:

If your going to fish Crowley in a tube, it would be criminal not to fish the Green Banks area.  Although at times it seems that you could walk bank to bank on the ‘tubers without getting you feet wet, this is a hot area of the lake.  Since the access roads are all unmaked dirt roads, you need to get directions from one of the local sproting goods stores.  I can get there but I can’t tell you how to get there. I have fished this area effectively using a sink tip line with an olive damsel fly nymph and olive woolybuggers in late June and July.  A word of warning, when the wind kicks up get off the lake.  It can be brutal. Good Luck, Dctr Trout

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Where is Crowley Lake?

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Where is Crowley Lake?

Crowley Lake is in Mono County, California. It is about a ten minute drive from the Mammoth Lakes Resort area. If you find Reno, Nevada on the map, follow Hwy 395 South-East approximately 180 miles.

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Have you tried Tim Alper’s lunker pond yet?  His designer Rainbow’s are big.

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I am looking for some advice on fishing Crowley Lake from a float tube.   I have fished the surrounding area (Hot Creek, Mammoth Lakes, Rush Creek, etc.), but I have always hesitated to fish Crowley because I hear you need a float tube to fish it right.  Well, now I have the tube and would love to get some tips on catching the Browns and Rainbows that everyone rants and raves about. I am planning trips in the Spring, Summer, and Fall.  I know the Olive Matuka is a famous Crowley fly, but maybe there are others???  Also, I will be looking the ‘tote the tube’ to any promising lakes within a day hike. Thanks in advance for any help, Matt Riley

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I am looking for some advice on fishing Crowley Lake from a float tube…

I have tried tubing Crowley near the marina and also off of Benton Crossing Road.  Haven’t hooked any of the big trout but was pretty amazed at the thick soup of hatching bugs – no wonder the trout grow. One trip we hit into a school of Sacramento Perch.  Locals said they were the best eating fish of all; we were camping so we kept quite a few (no limit) and filleted them and fried them up in a beer/bisquick batter and I wholeheartedly agree. Delicious! Before we cooked them a trout purist friend of a friend was pouting because we hadn’t caught trout, said he didn’t want any, then later, OK well lemme try a little bit, then another and he ended up eating about ten of them himself. There are lots of other lakes worth tubing, up any of the roads that go west from 395 in the Bishop area.  Last year a writer to this list caught 6 and 10 lb. brown trout on dry flies at North lake. I think especially with all the water, this year should be good for the east side sierra lakes. I like this area as much for the scenery, and when the mountains still have snow on the it is best. mark Vinsel Visit my gallery: http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.HTML

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Question:

Does anyone know if you can fly to Karluk and just camp on the beach there and fish?  There is a lodge there; I wonder if they have any monopoly on fishing in the Karluk river. This is on the southwest coast of Kodiak Island, in Alaska. Appreciate any feedback anyone can give.  

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I would always be careful about camping on the beach in any location where there are substantial numbers of brown bears.  You can fly into Brooks River, for example, and camp in a USFS camp site as well as stay at the lodge.  But in the camp site, just a little way off the beach, all the food has to be cached.  And all the fish have to be cleaned in a single building, far away from the camp site. I’d check with locals on the available faciltiies at Karluk river.

04:57:08 GMT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Does anyone know if you can fly to Karluk and just camp on the beach there and fish?  There is a lodge there; I wonder if they have any monopoly on fishing in the Karluk river.

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| | Does anyone know if you can fly to Karluk and just camp on the beach | there and fish?  There is a lodge there; I wonder if they have any | monopoly on fishing in the Karluk river. | Hello, I was on the Karluk for a week this fall. Drifted to the mouth and camped on the beach. There are bears (big bears !) and you do need to be careful. Limited cabins (primitive) are availble at Portage. The real monopoly if you want to call it that is access. Very interesting and productive river. Regards, Jeff

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Question:

I haven’t received any mail today. Is the listserver down or is it my local mail handler…

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(Richard Hall) writes: I haven’t received any mail today. Is the listserver down or is it my

local mail handler… I didn’t even know there was a fly fishing mailing list.  How do I subscribe?

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