Question:

"Old friends can wade a trout stream together or walk a woodland cover and not encounter just the fish or game of that day, but also the memories of other days and other places. They’ve taken the bitter with the better and found it all rewarding."     -Lee Wulff, Outdoor Life I stumbled across this today and thought others might enjoy it. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

"Old friends can wade a trout stream together or walk a woodland cover and not encounter just the fish or game of that day, but also the memories of other days and other places. They’ve taken the bitter with the better and found it all rewarding."     -Lee Wulff, Outdoor Life I stumbled across this today and thought others might enjoy it.

Too nice to snip, thanks George. At the risk of sounding maudlin, this describes to a T recent forays into the Blue Ridge with the NC boyos met on ROFF. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

"Old friends can wade a trout stream together or walk a woodland cover and not encounter just the fish or game of that day, but also the memories of other days and other places. They’ve taken the bitter with the better and found it all rewarding."     -Lee Wulff, Outdoor Life I stumbled across this today and thought others might enjoy it.

It reminds me of an episode of Star Trek (TNG) where a race of beings that communicated only by referring to other events in the past tense. "How was your trip?" "Warren and Bruiser on the Beaverhead!" ("I fished with streamers hard all day, and as usual I got skunked.") "Miller and LaCourse on the Rapid River!" ("I ran into a friend of mine, but I didn’t recognize him at first because he wasn’t attached to a stimulator.  My girlfriend caught a bigger trout than me on her second ever fly fishing attempt.") "Zimbo and Waldo at Elk River!" ("I fished with a nice gentleman and caught some nice fish, but unfortunately my reel fell into the river.  Also, I left my waders wadded up in a ball in the trunk of my car, and they now smell like shit."  (respectively) )

Response:

….eight beats to the bar…… john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Old friends can wade a trout stream together or walk a woodland cover and not encounter just the fish or game of that day, but also the memories of other days and other places. They’ve taken the bitter with the better and found it all rewarding."     -Lee Wulff, Outdoor Life I stumbled across this today and thought others might enjoy it. It reminds me of an episode of Star Trek (TNG) where a race of beings that communicated only by referring to other events in the past tense. "How was your trip?" "Warren and Bruiser on the Beaverhead!" ("I fished with streamers hard all day, and as usual I got skunked.") "Miller and LaCourse on the Rapid River!" ("I ran into a friend of mine, but I didn’t recognize him at first because he wasn’t attached to a stimulator.  My girlfriend caught a bigger trout than me on her second ever fly fishing attempt.") "Zimbo and Waldo at Elk River!" ("I fished with a nice gentleman and caught some nice fish, but unfortunately my reel fell into the river.  Also, I left my waders wadded up in a ball in the trunk of my car, and they now smell like shit."  (respectively) )

Response:

Question:

After finally purchasing most of the needed equipment, I was hoping to get poll on  knot’s others would use/recommend. I use a clinch knot. I think that 60% breakage figure is low. Make sure you lubricate the knot with a little spit before tightening. Willi

Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggguuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!  You are kNot-Perfect!

Response:

I break off far more fish  (and bushes and trees) on my tippet to leader knot than I do at the hook eye knot (improved clinch for me). Of course, I am quite lazy and use a double surgeons knot instead of a blood knot for my tippet/leader connection, which probably explains that. Actually breaking off on anything is fairly rare with the stronger mono now in existence. The stuff I used  30 years ago was another matter. G.Cleveland – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After finally purchasing most of the needed equipment,  spending hours practice casting, and reading everything I can find about fly-fishing, I’m almost ready to go. Some articles state that the clinch knot (for tying fly to tippet) is only 60% as strong as the tippet it is tied to. There also seems to be debate over whether improved version is actually better. Even so, it seems to be at the top of the list when looking at knot tying articles. After losing practice flies using this knot, I started tying uni-knot, but it takes longer  to tie. My knot tying ability and casing smoothness have both improved somewhat, and I plan to start actually fishing with improved clinch version. Set-up will be 5x tapered (sci. anglers 7 1/2 ft) tip with12-16 size flies with 5 wt wt-forward line. I was hoping to get poll on  knot’s others would use/recommend.

Response:

"william hughes" wrote… Set-up will be 5x tapered (sci. anglers 7 1/2 ft) tip with12-16 size flies with 5 wt wt-forward line.

All the info that everyone has given you about knots will serve you well.. apply it. One other thing you should consider is a longer leader for dry fly fishing for trout.  7-1/2 feet is short.  9′ and up would be better.   Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

DON’T PULL ON THE TAG END!!! I think lubrication is overrated.

I believe these two lines are in the running for my favorite ROFF quotes of 2002. Of course the year is still young. : ) -eddie http://www.guidetracker.com Go Fish…

Response:

"william hughes" wrote… Set-up will be 5x tapered (sci. anglers 7 1/2 ft) tip with12-16 size flies with 5 wt wt-forward line. One other thing you should consider is a longer leader for dry fly fishing for trout.  7-1/2 feet is short.  9′ and up would be better.

Yep. What I do is buy 7.5′ 3X tapered leaders then use tippet material to build leaders anywhere from 8.5′ to 15′. Ernie Harrison’s little red thingy is good for this. What in the hell ever happened to Ernie ? Did he get his knickers in a twist over that "rod loading" bullshit ? — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I use the improved clinch on smaller flies, but I find that it tends to slip on larger hooks.   I like the Trilene knot for big stuff.  My rule of thumb is if the hook eye is big enough to get the line through it twice, I use the trilene knot, otherwise I use the improved clinch knot. Kevin

I use neither and I certainly stopped using the clinch knot many, many, many years ago.  I have never used a knot that has cost me more lost fish than the damned clinch knot.  It is a stupid knot, a lazy knot, and only uneducated knot makers use it. I suppose with fishing LINES your rule of thumb would surfice but when it comes to dry flies and the hooks used in fly fishing, the amount of steel and drag used has a better scientific result determined by fifty years of testing by this author and it is this.  When a TIPPET can be thraded through the eye of the hook THREE TIMES, you have established the proper tippet diameter for that hook.  It is not correct to use an example that states, if your tippet material is .010 diameter it should slip through the eye of a .030 diameter hook.  However; if your tippet will squeeze through three times it works just fine.  That is three strands in a triangle configuration. There are physics involved that determine why this works but I’m not up to explaining it right now.  It simply works Kevin and it works wonderfully. I use ONE KNOT on all my flies and that is the Duncan Loop or Uni-Knot. I use FIVE turns through the loop and I snug the knot up to the tippet line without drawing the knot TO THE EYE OF THE HOOK.  When I put the Uni-Knot up to the eye, I leave a sixteenth of an inch of slack because I don’t wish to bottom the knot against the eye.  This way, my flies have movement as does my nymphs but especially my nymphs.   I have never, never lost a fish due to the 100% Uni-knot.  It has never come undone, it has never fail me in any way, shape or form. This IS the one knot any fly fisherman can stake their faith in any place on this planet.  This and the blood knot. Once a fish is hooked, the strike and weight of the fish draws the Uni-knot down to the eye of the hook for battle.   George Gehrke

Response:

One other thing you should consider is a longer leader for dry fly fishing for trout.  7-1/2 feet is short.  9′ and up would be better.

Especially in deeper or bigger water, I usually use a long leader when nymphing. I especially like to use a very long tippet. The thin tippet sinks much more readilly than the heavier sections of the leader and allows for easier strike detection and better control. Willi

Response:

There are physics involved that determine why this works but I’m not up to explaining it right now.  

Well, color me surprised… Kevin — Check out the Pike Clave Website: <http://www.misu.nodak.edu/~vang/PikeClave/

Response:

most of the tests I’ve seen on the clinch report 85 to 90% usually towatrds the higher number. The improved gets the strength up to about 95%. A stronger knot is the trilene. With any knot make sure you use the correct number of turns for the strength of tippet material. I suggest you consult a book or article by Lefty Kreh as I’ve found what he writes about knots to be the most reliable. RalphH

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After finally purchasing most of the needed equipment,  spending hours practice casting, and reading everything I can find about fly-fishing, I’m almost ready to go. Some articles state that the clinch knot (for tying fly to tippet) is only 60% as strong as the tippet it is tied to. There also seems to be debate over whether improved version is actually better. Even so, it seems to be at the top of the list when looking at knot tying articles. After losing practice flies using this knot, I started tying uni-knot, but it takes longer  to tie. My knot tying ability and casing smoothness have both improved somewhat, and I plan to start actually fishing with improved clinch version. Set-up will be 5x tapered (sci. anglers 7 1/2 ft) tip with12-16 size flies with 5 wt wt-forward line. I was hoping to get poll on  knot’s others would use/recommend.

Response:

Make sure your tippet material is in good shape. It deteriorates with age, especially if it’s exposed to sunlight.

        now *that’s* the truth.  and probably the primary reason for the failure of *any* knot. your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

I use ONE KNOT on all my flies and that is the Duncan Loop or Uni-Knot.

        how neat.  i use only one knot, myself.  the improved clinch. well, just goes to show that two great fishermen can differ—right, george? I have never, never lost a fish due to the 100% Uni-knot.  It has never come undone, it has never fail me in any way, shape or form. This IS the one knot any fly fisherman can stake their faith in any place on this planet.  This and the blood knot.

        how telling.  you know what one half of a blood knot is, don’t you, george?  that’s right:  an improved clinch.         i just knew we’d find a common ground. wayno

Response:

I was hoping to get poll on  knot’s others would use/recommend.

Most of the guides I’ve hired (especially the ones who are aggressive about changing flies) use the regular clinch knot. Whether it’s as strong as the improved clinch knot I don’t know, but it’s sure easier for me to tie, especially with fine tippets. If I’m changing flies a lot I use it. DON’T PULL ON THE TAG END!!! I think lubrication is overrated. If you tighten the knot slowly and carefully lubrication is unnecessary, IMHO. Make sure your tippet material is in good shape. It deteriorates with age, especially if it’s exposed to sunlight. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I was hoping to get poll on  knot’s others would use/recommend.

I use the improved clinch on smaller flies, but I find that it tends to slip on larger hooks.   I like the Trilene knot for big stuff.  My rule of thumb is if the hook eye is big enough to get the line through it twice, I use the trilene knot, otherwise I use the improved clinch knot. Kevin — Check out the Pike Clave Website: <http://www.misu.nodak.edu/~vang/PikeClave/

Response:

After finally purchasing most of the needed equipment,  spending hours practice casting, and reading everything I can find about fly-fishing, I’m almost ready to go. Some articles state that the clinch knot (for tying fly to tippet) is only 60% as strong as the tippet it is tied to.

That is odd.  A few quick experiments should tell you if you’re tying them that weak. After losing practice flies using this knot, I started tying uni-knot, but it takes longer  to tie.

Hmm, I find it as easy, if not easier, to tie.

Response:

After finally purchasing most of the needed equipment,  spending hours practice casting, and reading everything I can find about fly-fishing, I’m almost ready to go. Some articles state that the clinch knot (for tying fly to tippet) is only 60% as strong as the tippet it is tied to. There also seems to be debate over whether improved version is actually better. Even so, it seems to be at the top of the list when looking at knot tying articles. After losing practice flies using this knot, I started tying uni-knot, but it takes longer  to tie. My knot tying ability and casing smoothness have both improved somewhat, and I plan to start actually fishing with improved clinch version. Set-up will be 5x tapered (sci. anglers 7 1/2 ft) tip with12-16 size flies with 5 wt wt-forward line. I was hoping to get poll on  knot’s others would use/recommend.

Response:

After finally purchasing most of the needed equipment,   I was hoping to get poll on  knot’s others would use/recommend.

I use a clinch knot. I think that 60% breakage figure is low. Make sure you lubricate the knot with a little spit before tightening. Willi

Response:

I use a clinch knot. I think that 60% breakage figure is low. Make sure you lubricate the knot with a little spit before tightening.

Same here…..five turns, well lubricated. Additional turns, or the "improvement" of pulling the tag end through the loop, seem to me to make the knot harder to tighten properly and more likely to unravel. The key is to make sure the knot is tight. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

William Hughes writes: After losing practice flies using this knot, I started tying uni-knot, but it takes longer  to tie. My knot tying ability and casing smoothness have both improved somewhat, and I plan to start actually fishing with improved After losing practice flies using this knot, I started tying uni-knot, but it takes longer  to tie. My knot tying ability and casing smoothness have both improved somewhat, and I plan to start actually fishing with improved

I have used the clinch knot for many years.  Never moved up to the improved clinch, and like you say, the uni-knot takes a little longer to tie (especially with arthritic hands).  If you tie the clinch correctly, lubricating the tippet before you pull the knot tight, it should not fail.  I have landed some very big fish with 5x tippet and the clinch knot.   Once you get the knot tightened and trimmed the tag end, pull on the fly to see if  the knot will hold.  Like tens of thousands of fly fishermen before you, the clinch knot should be all you will need. Dave

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After finally purchasing most of the needed equipment,  spending hours practice casting, and reading everything I can find about fly-fishing, I’m almost ready to go. Some articles state that the clinch knot (for tying fly to tippet) is only 60% as strong as the tippet it is tied to. There also seems to be debate over whether improved version is actually better. Even so, it seems to be at the top of the list when looking at knot tying articles. After losing practice flies using this knot, I started tying uni-knot, but it takes longer  to tie. My knot tying ability and casing smoothness have both improved somewhat, and I plan to start actually fishing with improved clinch version. Set-up will be 5x tapered (sci. anglers 7 1/2 ft) tip with12-16 size flies with 5 wt wt-forward line. I was hoping to get poll on  knot’s others would use/recommend.

The Uni is quick and easy to tie – it you add one step.  Assuming you’re right handed, normally one threads the tippet into the eye of the hook and leaves about 3" of a tag.  Hold the eye of the hook, the tippet and the tag with the left thumb and forefinger.  Now wrap the tippet around your left index finger a couple of times.  This keeps the short length of tippet above the eye nice and taut, making it easier to form and thread the loop to finish the knot. HTH Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I agree with Dave et al…lubricating the knot is the key issue.  I don’t lose many trout because of knot problems. Eugene

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – William Hughes writes: After losing practice flies using this knot, I started tying uni-knot, but it takes longer  to tie. My knot tying ability and casing smoothness have both improved somewhat, and I plan to start actually fishing with improved After losing practice flies using this knot, I started tying uni-knot, but it takes longer  to tie. My knot tying ability and casing smoothness have both improved somewhat, and I plan to start actually fishing with improved I have used the clinch knot for many years.  Never moved up to the improved clinch, and like you say, the uni-knot takes a little longer to tie (especially with arthritic hands).  If you tie the clinch correctly, lubricating the tippet before you pull the knot tight, it should not fail.  I have landed some very big fish with 5x tippet and the clinch knot. Once you get the knot tightened and trimmed the tag end, pull on the fly to see if  the knot will hold.  Like tens of thousands of fly fishermen before you, the clinch knot should be all you will need. Dave

Response:

There are two things to keep in mind when tying the clinch knot.  1) lubricate it. 2) tighten it slowly.  Thightening (a new word?) the knot quickly will cause heat to build up in the mono and weaken the tippet. Chris Richer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – William Hughes writes: After losing practice flies using this knot, I started tying uni-knot, but it takes longer  to tie. My knot tying ability and casing smoothness have both improved somewhat, and I plan to start actually fishing with improved After losing practice flies using this knot, I started tying uni-knot, but it takes longer  to tie. My knot tying ability and casing smoothness have both improved somewhat, and I plan to start actually fishing with improved I have used the clinch knot for many years.  Never moved up to the improved clinch, and like you say, the uni-knot takes a little longer to tie (especially with arthritic hands).  If you tie the clinch correctly, lubricating the tippet before you pull the knot tight, it should not fail.  I have landed some very big fish with 5x tippet and the clinch knot. Once you get the knot tightened and trimmed the tag end, pull on the fly to see if  the knot will hold.  Like tens of thousands of fly fishermen before you, the clinch knot should be all you will need. Dave

Response:

Set-up will be 5x tapered (sci. anglers 7 1/2 ft) tip with12-16 size flies with 5 wt wt-forward line. I was hoping to get poll on  knot’s others would use/recommend.

William, I count being knot-challenged amongst my various and sundry handicaps. Some days I just can’t seem to make a freaking clinch knot work, improved or otherwise. If the ratio of tippet diameter vs. hook-eye diameter allows, I always use a Palomar knot. This is a very simple knot to learn and is very strong. I don’t remember this knot ever failing me. For smaller flies, you (and I!) had better learn to tie the clinch. I have noticed a marked improvement in clinch knotting since I started using my forceps as a tying tool, I’m not sure why. Danl

Response:

After finally purchasing most of the needed equipment,  spending hours practice casting, and reading everything I can find about fly-fishing, I’m almost ready to go. Some articles state that the clinch knot (for tying fly to tippet) is only 60% as strong as the tippet it is tied to. There also seems to be debate over whether improved version is actually better. Even so, it seems to be at the top of the list when looking at knot tying articles.

William, For some time, I used the improved clinch knot. When I started getting into bigger fish, it seemed too many were breaking me off. I mentioned this to my local friendly flyshop owner one day and he told me he uses the regular clinch knot. He explained that the improved clinch is a stronger knot when tied properly, but many times during tying it can get twisted, and when it does, it becomes much weaker. So since that day, I’ve been happily using the standard clinch. The number of bigger fish breaking me off has been greatly reduced! As others have said, lubricate well and tighten slowly. After trimming the tag-end, always test the knot by gently pulling on the fly and tippet. Sometimes it looks like you’ve tied it correctly, but a pull will reveal a bad knot and the fly will come off the tippet. And it’s much better to find a bad knot by your pulling than by a trout’s! And yes, I’ve learned this tip the hard way! Fish on, my friend. Danny McMillin — Danny McMillin — Remove XX from email address to reduce spam.

Response:

There are two things to keep in mind when tying the clinch knot.  1) lubricate it. 2) tighten it slowly.  …

I would add a third, tighten by pulling the line end away from the eye and not by pulling on the tag end. I switched from an improved clinch to a clinch several years ago based on something I read here in ROFF. Works for me. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

All knot failures I’ve had with the improved Cinch have been do to my stupidity in tying the knot, not the design of the knot. Lou

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After finally purchasing most of the needed equipment,  spending hours practice casting, and reading everything I can find about fly-fishing, I’m almost ready to go. Some articles state that the clinch knot (for tying fly to tippet) is only 60% as strong as the tippet it is tied to. There also seems to be debate over whether improved version is actually better. Even so, it seems to be at the top of the list when looking at knot tying articles. After losing practice flies using this knot, I started tying uni-knot, but it takes longer  to tie. My knot tying ability and casing smoothness have both improved somewhat, and I plan to start actually fishing with improved clinch version. Set-up will be 5x tapered (sci. anglers 7 1/2 ft) tip with12-16 size flies with 5 wt wt-forward line. I was hoping to get poll on  knot’s others would use/recommend.

Response:

Question:

All, I found this experience to be fascinating. While fishing the Manistee river in western Michigan, Dad & I casually donned our gear and schlepped the few hundred feet from the car to a stairs leading down to the river. Upon landing we began sizing up the water and realized that we were probably in the wrong place, as the water was very featureless and deepened quickly from the banks that we found ourselves on.  Well, as we were feeling a bit lazy, we decided to give it a try anyway.  Walking upstream a few yards, I happened upon a little gravel bed that jutted into the river allowing me a few extra feet to wade so I walked out and started pondering what to fish.  Tried a few things, deep, shallow, etc with no luck.  Felt kinda like fishing a lake as there were no feature to speak of except (of course) the little gravel bed I was standing on (who was it that once said…"you can always tell the inexperienced fisherman because he is wading where he should be fishing and fishing where he should be wading?)  After about an hour of flailing about I happened to gaze down into the water and was shocked to see at least 5, yes five very large brown trout  feeding right next to my feet.  AHA! finally a challenge.  So I carefully proceded to fish every last fly in my box in every conceivable presentation style past these fish only to watch them move out of the way as my fly du seconde floated by.  After a while, I simply gave up and watched them feed, and began learning…. Russell

Response:

Russell,    You were probably dislodging insects with your feet and the fish were taking advantage of it.  This is not an uncommon occurrence in heavily fished waters where the fish get used to the fisherman. Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I found this experience to be fascinating. <snip I happened to gaze down into the water and was shocked to see at least 5, yes five very large brown trout  feeding right next to my feet <snip Russell

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Russell,    You were probably dislodging insects with your feet and the fish were taking advantage of it.  This is not an uncommon occurrence in heavily fished waters where the fish get used to the fisherman. Ernie I found this experience to be fascinating. <snip I happened to gaze down into the water and was shocked to see at least 5, yes five very large brown trout  feeding right next to my feet <snip Russell

Ernie, You are probably right, however they seemed to also be feeding in front of me in the typical dodge and slide pattern.  It was awesome to watch. Russell

Response:

Question:

Just flip them back out with your gig pole, or your push pole.  The biggest thing is to learn how to tell a water snake from a cotton mouth.  They will vary in color from a light tan through to a dark brown and all the way to black, so look for the thick body and big head.

A very good point Pat. I grew up around the swamps in southeast Texas and saw a wide range of colors. The thick body and wide heads are the correct clues. I once was working at a golf course where one clogged a 6" sprinkler intake pipe in one of the ponds. Imagine my coworker’s reaction when he waded out, feeling for what was there and found that cotton mouth. Jesus wasn’t the only one who walked (ran) on water. Tyler Hopper

Response:

I was told one way to tell if  a snake is of a dangerious kind is to watch how they swin in the water. If a snake swins with head parallel and very close to the surface of the water, then watch out! OTOH, if a snake swims with its head way out of the water, chances are it won’t be something nasty as cotton mouth and the likes. I never understood why, but it seemed to work for me. Joe

Response:

As a rule, most snakes are more afraid of you than you are of them, including rattlers.  The major exception to this rule is the cotton mouth, they will actively defend their territory if they are on land.  I grew up in southeast Alabama within walking distance of 3 good sized ponds, all of which were full of snakes and I can tell you from experience that a big cotton mouth will chase you away if you intrude on their "property". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  My experience with snakes in general is that they are more afraid of you than vice versa, and will try to get out of your way if possible. Warren Funk

Response:

Thanks to all who answered my question with advice and fascinating stories.  I appreciate all the answers.   Butch Formerly Corkbug, now DeepSnag! Thanks again guys!

Response:

I recently began fishing both fly and bait casting in the tidal waters of South Eastern Virginia.  I am a little concerned with the safety of wading in these waters with the prevalence of ‘Water Mocassins’.  Do other people wade regularly in these waters and are there any particular precautions one should take? Thanks for any input Butch

Response:

CorkBug – a sawed-off 12 gauge comes to mind first.  Overall, I think you’d be fairly safe, but snakes are snakes, and you can’t predict their behavior. I have seen one up close and personal (four feet long, size of your wrist, and extremely angry).  Of course, he had three treble hooks in his middle, so I suppose you could assume he had reason.  My experience with snakes in general is that they are more afraid of you than vice versa, and will try to get out of your way if possible.  I fished with a buddy who carried a .357 loaded with .38 bird shot–worked great. Warren Funk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently began fishing both fly and bait casting in the tidal waters of South Eastern Virginia.  I am a little concerned with the safety of wading in these waters with the prevalence of ‘Water Mocassins’.  Do other people wade regularly in these waters and are there any particular precautions one should take? Thanks for any input Butch

Response:

In water shallow enough to wade in, it’s not likely that a cotton mouth will be under water, you will see them coming, unless they are coming from behind.  They tend to be aggressive about defending their "territory" so keep an eye out for them.  If the water is fast moving I doubt that you will see many snakes in it anyway.  Another thing to keep in mind.  Where there are water moccasins, there will also be a lot of harmless water snakes that look just like their more dangerous cousins.  The cotton mouth tends to be thicker through the body than the average water snake, plus there is always the head that is wider than the body as a dead giveaway that you have a cotton mouth on your hands.  Another thing that cotton mouths like to do is get in the boat with you at night.  I’ve never understood why, but we frog gig quite a bit from a small jon boat with one guy in front with a headlight and a gig while another guy poles the boat from the back. It’s not unusual for a big ‘ole moccasin to crawl over the side and into the boat. Just flip them back out with your gig pole, or your push pole.  The biggest thing is to learn how to tell a water snake from a cotton mouth.  They will vary in color from a light tan through to a dark brown and all the way to black, so look for the thick body and big head. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently began fishing both fly and bait casting in the tidal waters of South Eastern Virginia.  I am a little concerned with the safety of wading in these waters with the prevalence of ‘Water Mocassins’.  Do other people wade regularly in these waters and are there any particular precautions one should take? Thanks for any input Butch

Response:

Question:

Well, well, well, So what do we flyfishers think of the new (and old) warranties? Orvis                25-years Loomis             Lifetime $45 exchange for new rod Scott                $20 Lifetime Winston           $25 Lifetime Sage               $20 Lifetime Etc. etc. etc. Just wondering, Paul

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Well, well, well, So what do we flyfishers think of the new (and old) warranties? Orvis                25-years Loomis             Lifetime $45 exchange for new rod Scott                $20 Lifetime Winston           $25 Lifetime Sage               $20 Lifetime Etc. etc. etc. Just wondering, Paul

Ha Paul, I want my money back. I bought a new outfit and went out and got skunked. I am going to take all these manufacturers to court. I think the government should step in and do something about this. You read the adds, buy a new fly fishing outfit, go done to the river and get skunked. Well, it’s not my fault, it’s my parents. They didn’t send me to an Orvis School when I was young. They made me fish with worms too. I think I will take them to court too. I think I will take the government to court too because they let me ’slip through the cracks’. I guess I am just a loser, but it’s not my fault. I think I will go have a tuna fish sand witch and watch David Letterman. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop www.kiene.com

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got skunked. I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -am going to take all these manufacturers to court. I think the government should step in and do something about this. You read the adds, buy a new fly fishing outfit, go done to the river and get skunked. Well, it’s not my fault, it’s my parents. They didn’t send me to an Orvis School when I was young. They made me fish with worms too. I think I will take them to court too. I think I will take the government to court too because they let me ’slip through the cracks’. I guess I am just a loser, but it’s not my fault. I think I will go have a tuna fish sand witch and watch David Letterman. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop www.kiene.com

Love you Bill!!!!! You probably have more experience with both guides and lawyers, but I find it easies to find a competeant guide than it is a competeant lawyer. Care to comment? Big Dale

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LL Bean still has their warranty policy in place… Lifetime satisfaction guarantee If you break the rod on a trip, they’ll overnight fedex a replacement anwhere in the country.  You return the broken rod at your convenience. All free. Michael – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, well, well, So what do we flyfishers think of the new (and old) warranties? Orvis                25-years Loomis             Lifetime $45 exchange for new rod Scott                $20 Lifetime Winston           $25 Lifetime Sage               $20 Lifetime Etc. etc. etc. Just wondering, Paul

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You know, I remember the old days when if I screwed up, it was my fault.  I remember that I took care of my rod, because if I broke it, I was  out X number of dollars.  I remember a time when you were responsible for your actions.  I remember when I didn’t do well in school, it was my fault, not society.  I remember breaking my arm in junior high school and not suing the school.  I remember a time when if you broke something, you stood up like a man and admitted it…. It’s amazing how rods are now "accidently" broken as opposed to how many were broken BEFORE the new warranties. Just my 2 cents. Flyguy Bill Kiene wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ha Paul, I want my money back. I bought a new outfit and went out and got skunked. I am going to take all these manufacturers to court. I think the government should step in and do something about this. You read the adds, buy a new fly fishing outfit, go done to the river and get skunked. Well, it’s not my fault, it’s my parents. They didn’t send me to an Orvis School when I was young. They made me fish with worms too. I think I will take them to court too. I think I will take the government to court too because they let me ’slip through the cracks’. I guess I am just a loser, but it’s not my fault. I think I will go have a tuna fish sand witch and watch David Letterman. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop www.kiene.com

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You know, I remember the old days when if I screwed up, it was my fault

Geez, let’s not have too much pity for the poor manufacturers… The fly rod that you and I pay $650 for in the store, probably costs the manufacturer $50 in direct materials and labor.  And it makes the vendor probably 3x to 4x the profit per rod as a $200 rod. Some people probably won’t buy a super-premium rod because they’re afraid they’ll break it.  So by offering a no-fault warranty, the manufacturers get more folks to buy the highly profitable rods.  Really, it makes a lot of sense given the disparity between direct and retail costs. Especially now that the rod vendors are charging for warranty repairs (and offsetting most of the cost anyway), they’re laughing all the way to the bank. Michael

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You know, I remember the old days when if I screwed up, it was my fault Geez, let’s not have too much pity for the poor manufacturers… The fly rod that you and I pay $650 for in the store, probably costs the manufacturer $50 in direct materials and labor.  And it makes the vendor probably 3x to 4x the profit per rod as a $200 rod.

that very possibly true – check out George Gherke’s costing for his Bastard Rod – the fitting alone exceed $50. but, don’t forget it the manufacturer has to pay for a lot of other things beside direct material and labour. Anyone whose worked in a manufacturing environment can tell you overheads are very often more than direct manufacturing costs. Don’t forget as well that everyone along the way – the manufacturer, the distributor and the retailer all have to make some sort of profit. For most products of this nature the mark up on the rod( the difference between the retail price and the wholessale price the retailer pays) is about 1/3 of the price you pay. So for a $650 rod the manufacturer may gets $425 in revenue. Ralph H

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but, don’t forget it the manufacturer has to pay for a lot of other things beside direct material and labour. Anyone whose worked in a manufacturing environment can tell you overheads are very often more than direct manufacturing costs. Don’t forget as well that everyone along the way – the manufacturer, the distributor and the retailer all have to make some sort of profit.

Absolutely true, but it’s also my point. You can make the argument that it’s reasonable for a fly mfg. to charge $650 for a rod.  (Hey, no one’s forcing me to buy the damn thing, and the market also supplies pretty good rods at every price point from $19 up).  Lord knows, a lot of vendors with fancy names and fancy rods are only marginally profitable.  But the time to make the profit is on the initial sale and, hopefully,  the next sale a few years later from a satisfied customer upgrading to the same vendor’s latest and greatest. Repairs are a time when the vendor can make or break customer loyalty.  It’s simply not worth getting into a debate with the customer about who’s fault it was.  <<Was the ferrule defective, or had it loosened up on me while fishing?  Is it the fault of the vendor’s poor tolerances that the rod loosened up and then broke at the ferrule, or my sloppy fishing habits, for not checking them every once in a while?  It just makes good sense for the manufacturer to fix a rod at it’s marginal cost, and not mark it up.  Even if it truly is the customer’s fault.  Hey, we all make mistakes. Then you can argue whether, if the marginal cost is so low (say $20 for a section of a $600 rod), does it make sense to bill for it, or do you get even more than $20 worth of loyalty and repeat business to do it for "free". I don’t see this as a biggee…it’s close enough to $0 that I wouldn’t care if I felt it were my fault.  Of course, if it were truly a mfg. flaw, I’d be pissed off about paying even $20, much less $50. Michael

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Question:

Ask Kiene about Shad. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d love some suggestions for locations to fly fish near Sacramento or Napa….. I’m forced to be in the area in the evenings and have all of my fishing gear, but just don’t have the time to make it to the redding area. Thanks for the help, tight lines. Marc! assistants at 800/4000 FLYor better visit the  Kiene’s Fly Shop, 2654 Marconi Avenue, Sacramento, and they will tell you all you need to know. They are great fellows, they know the area and it’s one of the nicest fly shops i have visited! //Thorsten

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I’d love some suggestions for locations to fly fish near Sacramento or Napa….. I’m forced to be in the area in the evenings and have all of my fishing gear, but just don’t have the time to make it to the redding area. Thanks for the help, tight lines.

Response:

I’d love some suggestions for locations to fly fish near Sacramento or Napa….. I’m forced to be in the area in the evenings and have all of my fishing gear, but just don’t have the time to make it to the redding area. Thanks for the help, tight lines.

Marc! assistants at 800/4000 FLYor better visit the  Kiene’s Fly Shop, 2654 Marconi Avenue, Sacramento, and they will tell you all you need to know. They are great fellows, they know the area and it’s one of the nicest fly shops i have visited! //Thorsten

Response:

I’d love some suggestions for locations to fly fish near Sacramento or Napa….. I’m forced to be in the area in the evenings and have all of my fishing gear, but just don’t have the time to make it to the redding area. Thanks for the help, tight lines.

Marc! Kiene’s Fly Shop, 2654 Marconi Avenue, Sacramento, or call him or his assistants at 800/4000 FLY and they will tell you all you need to know. //Thorsten

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Question:

I am just getting started in FF and I don’t know the best method for affixing my flyline to the reel.  Also, how do I attach the leader to the line?

Response:

Benjamin, You can tie the backing to the reel, the backing to the fly line than the flyline to the leader/tippet. Reel to backing: Two simple overhand knots. Tag end of backing around spool 2 times and tie an overhand knot in the end. Than a second overhand knot around the standing line. Snug up the second knot. Than pull the standing line tight. The knots should slip down to the spool hub. Fly line to backing and leader to fly line to leader/tippet can both be done with a nail knot. Most books on basic fishing will have a picture of this knot. If you purchased all your tackle from a fly shop, take it back to the shop and ask them to show you how to do it. Most will be happy to do it for you. If you got your tackle mail order, go to your local fly shop and purchase about $100  worth of additional tackle and than ask them to help you. There are are other knots you can use, but I find these knots east to tie. Good luck & Good fishing, — Dennis C. Aron Independent Representative #13921 Champion Fishing Co., Ltd – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am just getting started in FF and I don’t know the best method for affixing my flyline to the reel.  Also, how do I attach the leader to the line?

Response:

Benjamin,         Your local shop will do most of it for you and the other posts suggest the best knots for it but I just wanted to add that from your fly line, the first bit of mono is called the butt section and it’s the thickest diameter part of your leader.           It was suggested to me to have a short butt section from my line to my leader and have a loop at the end of it.  This way I can make the same loop on my leaders and change leaders forever without having to retie the nail knot at the end of the flyline.           Whoever at your local shop will probably be hip to the entire set up. Don’t ever be intimidated into NOT asking questions of these people, I’ve learned a lot from them. Good Luck, Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also, how do I attach the leader to the line?

Response:

I am just getting started in FF and I don’t know the best method for affixing my flyline to the reel.  Also, how do I attach the leader to the line?

Ben, Spend some money on a good beginner fly fishing book. Try to find a copy of Dave Hughes "Fly Fishing Basics" for $12.95 (US$) – I happen to think it’s quite good. ISBN 0-8117-2439-5. Also, you don’t attach your fly line to the reel, you attach it to backing line which is attached to the reel. Backing goes around the reel spindle twice and is tied with a simple overhand knot and a second overhand knot at the end of the tag end. Pull this tight and the tag end overhand knot will catch in the first overhand knot that is tied around the backing line. Hard to write – easy to tie. NOTE: make sure you wrap the line onto the reel in the correct direction too. Adjust the drag pawls too. Use a nail-knot at the backing line /fly line point. If you are using a wt. forward fly line – make sure the correct end is attached to the backing material.Should be okay if left on the original spool until attaching it to the backing. (A DT line is double-ended so no mistake possible) Use a braided loop on the end of your fly line and form a loop in the end of your leader(s). A loop-to-loop connection allows leader change out quickly. Add some extra tippet material to the "fly" end of your leader and save buying lot’s of expensive leaders. Tight Lines, Don Burns Wishful collector of Gillums and Dickersons – owner of Montague, H-I and Heddons

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Question:

     I’ll be in the Old Forge, NY area during the last week in July. Does anyone know if it’s worth bringing my flyrod?

Response:

Yes it is if you have an opportunity to fish Nicks Lake. You will need a canoe (which can be rented from Tickners in Old Forge), since motors are not allowed on Nicks. Heavily stocked with brown and brook trout. Throw on a size #18 adams and have fun.

Response:

Definately check out the West Canada Creek when you’re in Old Forge.  Late July, most of August you’ll likely find prolific hatches of what are locally called "whiteflies".  Size 12-14-16 light cahills work fine.  Good luck!

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Question:

: Actually it IS illegal for person under 21 years of age to wear any non-USCG approved PFD here in : California while boating or watersking, and is likely to be in other states.   I would have to disagree with you on this one, Pat.  If you could point me at some written source of this, I would greatly appreciate it, because it certainly is too bizarre to be true.   I could believe that it is illegal to water ski without an approved life jacket being worn.  But it CANT be illegal to simply wear a PDF that is not approved while boating.   First off, what is the definition of a PFD?  ( I know, it is a personal floatation device).  My bathing suit is not an approved PDF, does that make it illegal to wear?   OK, that was a smart ass answer.  How about a wet suit?  It floats, but is not approved.  Am I breaking your law by wearing my wetsuit while sitting in the ski boat?   How about my SOS suspenders?  Do I really break a law when I put these on?  Does your law really prefer me to wear nothing at all over a non approved floatation device?   I don’t think so.   There are situations that may require a life jacket to be worn. Water skiing may be one of them, but I am not sure.  But there is no requirement for an adult to wear a life jacket in a boat.  There has to be an approved life jacket for him, it doesn’t need to be worn. And putting on a wet suit, or an inflatable device, or even a ski belt shouldn’t be any legal problem.   You might be confusing a rule that was enacted rather recently.  I forget the actual wording, but I believe that it required *children* under a certain age (I think it was 12) to wear an approved life jacket whenever the boat was underway *unless* any of a whole bunch of exceptions.  The exceptions included being in an enclosed cabin or being tethered.   Rod McInnis

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i live on a lake and use skibelts for just swimming around.  i don’t, and don’t allow visitors to swim unless they wear some type of floatation.  since we don’t jump or play any water sports here, the skibelts are nice to just float in the water off of the dock.  i really dislike having vests riding up under my armpits. so i like to keep skibelts around.  but i’m having difficult times finding them too and i suspect soon i won’t be able to find any.  last i looked, E&B Marine still carried some inexpensive ones.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry, but there is a misperception here – a very common one, I’m afraid. Whether or not a device is "Coast Guard Approved" has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not you can us it as a *recreational* boater. However in order for a personal flotation device to "count" towards fullfilling the number of PFD’s which must be carried on any particular boat, that PFD must be Coast Guard Approved, in good condition, and of the proper size for its intended wearer. It is *not* illegal to carry non-approved pfd’s on your boat, nor is it illegal for you to *wear* them. Actually it IS illegal for person under 21 years of age to wear any

non-USCG approved PFD here in California while boating or watersking, and is likely to be in other

states.  You know, Rev. its not a good idea to split hairs on safety devices, particularily one as

dangerous as this one.  You see these belts hold a person face down it the water making them useless on

an unconsciencious or disoriented person.  I could not recommend to anyone where to buy one

nor allow anyone to wear one on my boat.  My comments to the original poster was about these ski

belts only, no other device was mentioned.

<snippers Pat Registered Nurse former Aviation Life Support Equipment maintainance supervisor U.S. Army Reserve — "Reality is meaningless, perception is everything"  PH

I’m afraid that I still have to stand by my original statement regarding the legality/illegality of wearing non-USCG approved PFD’s, including ski belts. There are two "sets" of law in California which deal with the wearing of life jackets: the first is the Charter Boat Safety Act, which empowers (and requires) the Captain of commercial vessels to order passengers into life jackets under particular conditions; the second, which is the one with which we are concerned at the moment, is the Harbours and Navigation Code, Section 658.3: "658.3.  (a) No person shall operate a motorboat, sailboat, or vessel that is 26 feet or less in length unless every person on board who is six years of age or less is wearing a type I, II, or III Coast Guard-approved personal flotation device while that motorboat, sailboat, or vessel is underway.    (b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to a person operating a sailboat on which a person who is six years of age or less is restrained by a harness tethered to the vessel, or to a person operating a vessel on which a person who is six years of age or less is in an enclosed cabin.    (c) Subdivision (a) does not apply to a person operating a motorboat, sailboat, or vessel if the operator is reacting to an emergency rescue situation.    (d) The following definitions govern the construction of this section:    (1) "Enclosed cabin" means a space on board a vessel that is surrounded by bulkheads and covered by a roof.    (2) "Operate a motorboat, sailboat, or vessel" means to be in control or in charge of a motorboat, sailboat, or vessel while it is underway.    (3) "Underway" means all times except when the motorboat, sailboat, or vessel is anchored, moored, or aground.    (e) A violation of this section is an infraction punishable as provided in subdivision (a) of Section 668." Nothing in this section can be construed as to forbid the wearing of non-approved floatation devices, as requiring a person to wear an approved device is not the same as forbidding the wearing of an unapproved one, nor is the wearing of PFD’s by anyone over the age of six addressed in any way. An exhaustive search of all current California State Law failed to turn up any other section which would forbid persons aged 21 or under from wearing  non-approved PFD’s. So while these ski belts may, indeed, be dangerous in some situations, it is not illegal for anyone to wear them. Rev. Karin Conover-Lewis

Response:

:Actually it IS illegal for person under 21 years of age to wear any non-USCG :approved PFD here in :California while boating or watersking Must be some interesting wording to that legislation. Lets see, my wetsuit offers a little boyancy, is it illegal to wear because its not an approved PFD? I guess its illegal to wear something which isn’t a PFD but *sombody* might think *is* a PFD? — george  

Response:

:To live is to risk harm – some people enjoy taking risks and derive a :great deal of pleasure from putting themselves into harms way. Whether or :not I agree with the wisdom of such risk-taking is irrelevant – to impose :society’s will upon them and declare that they have a duty to avoid all :risk is highly immoral and violates the right of self-determination to :which all people are entitled. you know I agree completely, and I’ve said as much on many ocasions. I dont know what came over me to propose such a thing.. — george  

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snippers : If one follows this argument to its logical conclusion, then PFD’s should : be required by law for *all* water activities, including surfing, : fly-fishing, hot-tubbing and even swimming.   I wouldn’t follow it to that conclusion.  George’s statement was in regards to water skiing, not boating.  I might extend the thinking to any boating type activity where the person can expect to get dumped violently into the water, such as skiing, wind surfing, riding a PWC, etc.     Rod McInnis

But my comment was not directed at the wisdom of wearing PFD’s during any particular activity, rather whether or not such wearing of PFD’s should be a matter of legislation. Is it smart to wear a PFD anytime you go into the water? Of course – you never knows when you might slip and fall, particularly when dealing with slippery wet rocks such as one finds in trout streams. Does this then mean that you should be *forced at gunpoint* (for such is the actual implication of such legisation) to wear a PFD during this activity? The risk of drowning is every bit as real as it is during boating, and possibly even greater than the risk of drowning while waterskiing, since while waterskiing rescue is readily available and one actually expects to fall down from time to time. To live is to risk harm – some people enjoy taking risks and derive a great deal of pleasure from putting themselves into harms way. Whether or not I agree with the wisdom of such risk-taking is irrelevant – to impose society’s will upon them and declare that they have a duty to avoid all risk is highly immoral and violates the right of self-determination to which all people are entitled. Rev. Karin Conover-Lewis

Response:

Sorry, but there is a misperception here – a very common one, I’m afraid. Whether or not a device is "Coast Guard Approved" has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not you can us it as a *recreational* boater. However in order for a personal flotation device to "count" towards fullfilling the number of PFD’s which must be carried on any particular boat, that PFD must be Coast Guard Approved, in good condition, and of the proper size for its intended wearer. It is *not* illegal to carry non-approved pfd’s on your boat, nor is it illegal for you to *wear* them.

Actually it IS illegal for person under 21 years of age to wear any non-USCG approved PFD here in California while boating or watersking, and is likely to be in other states.  You know, Rev. its not a good idea to split hairs on safety devices, particularily one as dangerous as this one.  You see these belts hold a person face down it the water making them useless on an unconsciencious or disoriented person.  I could not recommend to anyone where to buy one nor allow anyone to wear one on my boat.  My comments to the original poster was about these ski belts only, no other device was mentioned.      We know that USCG until recently had not approved the automatic inflatable type one life vest, but that was due to an argument over how to inspect them for functionality.  These vests are arguably the safest available because they are relatively comfortable and provide the most bouyancy of any vest sold in most stores. If I have two adults on my boat, I must carry two adult size Coast Guard Approved PFD’s (type I, II, or III), plus one type IV. Whatever *else* I carry, whether Coast Guard Approved or not, is entirely up to my discretion. My husband and I both have SOSpenders which are our primary personal flotation devices. While our SOSpenders are superiour to other PFD’s in every respect, they do not count toward fulfilling our requirement. Therefore we have two adult type I PFD’s to cover our personal requirement, four adult type III’s, two small type I’s, and several type IV’s, which brings us up to and beyond the requirements for our boat as we will not sail with an out-of-balance PFD-to-person ratio.

Pat Registered Nurse former Aviation Life Support Equipment maintainance supervisor U.S. Army Reserve — "Reality is meaningless, perception is everything"  PH

Response:

 I have been trying to find a source for these types of laws, because I have several questions regarding what is "legal" and what is just strongly recommended.  For example, does the law really say that a life jacket MUST he *worn* while skiing?  If so, I would sure like to see how that is worded.

As best as I can find it is legislated at the state level.  In NC you must wear a CG approved flotation device while skiing, etc only if there is not a designated spotter other than the boat driver.  If you’ve got a spotter then nothing or a belt is ok.  I have both and many of the adults prefer the belt but I tell the kids they have to wear the jacket. As to a source, the discount catalogs have them.  Around here Walmart has them and Boaters Discount World, a boat store chain also have them. They’re $7-$9. Lawrence…….

Response:

|   I wouldn’t follow it to that conclusion.  George’s statement was in | regards to water skiing, not boating.  I might extend the thinking to | any boating type activity where the person can expect to get dumped | violently into the water, such as skiing, wind surfing, riding a PWC, | etc.   … or riding in a boat.  You never know what you’ll run into, or what will run into you.  Many folks where seatbelts in their car, for the same reason. — Bob Wood                                                       ascom Nexion                                                        phone:  508-266-2350

Response:

: : :They are no longer US Coast Guard approved which makes them illegal in : :most states.  The reason is that they are exceptionally dangerous and : :should never be used on a human. : : we used one back in the 70’s. At that time they were not CG approved, : which meant they didn’t count in your PFD tally on the boat, : but there was no requirment that a skier wear an approved PFD. : I’ve never heard of a change in that situation, but I wouldn’t : be suprised if there now is a PFD requirement for skiers (possably : by the states) . Obviously there should be..I remember taking spills : and slipping right out of the belts. : : : — : george   : : : If one follows this argument to its logical conclusion, then PFD’s should : be required by law for *all* water activities, including surfing, : fly-fishing, hot-tubbing and even swimming.   I wouldn’t follow it to that conclusion.  George’s statement was in regards to water skiing, not boating.  I might extend the thinking to any boating type activity where the person can expect to get dumped violently into the water, such as skiing, wind surfing, riding a PWC, etc.     Rod McInnis

Response:

: Does anyone know of a source for used (or new) ski belt life : preservers?…I’ve heard that they are no longer "legal?" :   : Don Land   Why on Earth do you want one?   I always enjoyed giving the girls the ski belt because of the increased likelyhood that they would lose their bathing suit top.  :-)   But they are just not a good idea.  I doubt that they would be Coast Guard approved as a life jacket, since they have no tendency to right an unconccious wearer.  In fact, I remember taking a fall wearing one of those and having it slip down to my knees!  Definately not a perferred position!   Rod McInnis

Response:

They are no longer US Coast Guard approved which makes them illegal in most states.  The reason is that they are exceptionally dangerous and should never be used on a human. Pat — "Reality is meaningless, perception is everything"  PH

Sorry, but there is a misperception here – a very common one, I’m afraid. Whether or not a device is "Coast Guard Approved" has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not you can us it as a *recreational* boater. However in order for a personal flotation device to "count" towards fullfilling the number of PFD’s which must be carried on any particular boat, that PFD must be Coast Guard Approved, in good condition, and of the proper size for its intended wearer. It is *not* illegal to carry non-approved pfd’s on your boat, nor is it illegal for you to *wear* them. If I have two adults on my boat, I must carry two adult size Coast Guard Approved PFD’s (type I, II, or III), plus one type IV. Whatever *else* I carry, whether Coast Guard Approved or not, is entirely up to my discretion. My husband and I both have SOSpenders which are our primary personal flotation devices. While our SOSpenders are superiour to other PFD’s in every respect, they do not count toward fulfilling our requirement. Therefore we have two adult type I PFD’s to cover our personal requirement, four adult type III’s, two small type I’s, and several type IV’s, which brings us up to and beyond the requirements for our boat as we will not sail with an out-of-balance PFD-to-person ratio.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :They are no longer US Coast Guard approved which makes them illegal in :most states.  The reason is that they are exceptionally dangerous and :should never be used on a human. we used one back in the 70’s. At that time they were not CG approved, which meant they didn’t count in your PFD tally on the boat, but there was no requirment that a skier wear an approved PFD. I’ve never heard of a change in that situation, but I wouldn’t be suprised if there now is a PFD requirement for skiers (possably by the states) . Obviously there should be..I remember taking spills and slipping right out of the belts. — george    

If one follows this argument to its logical conclusion, then PFD’s should be required by law for *all* water activities, including surfing, fly-fishing, hot-tubbing and even swimming. Don’t get me wrong – I think that life vests are extremely useful items and I wouldn’t dream of going sailing without them. But this nanny-state attitude has *really* got to stop. I do not defer responsibility for my own life to the State, nor will I allow that responsibility to be taken from me by force by meddling do-gooders. Rev. Karin Conover-Lewis

Response:

:They are no longer US Coast Guard approved which makes them illegal in :most states.  The reason is that they are exceptionally dangerous and :should never be used on a human. we used one back in the 70’s. At that time they were not CG approved, which meant they didn’t count in your PFD tally on the boat, but there was no requirment that a skier wear an approved PFD. I’ve never heard of a change in that situation, but I wouldn’t be suprised if there now is a PFD requirement for skiers (possably by the states) . Obviously there should be..I remember taking spills and slipping right out of the belts. — george  

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: They are no longer US Coast Guard approved which makes them illegal in : most states.  The reason is that they are exceptionally dangerous and : should never be used on a human. : Pat   Are you sure that they are "illegal"?   I am pretty sure that they no longer qualify as a type three life saving device.  But that doesn’t make them illegal, they just don’t count.   I have been trying to find a source for these types of laws, because I have several questions regarding what is "legal" and what is just strongly recommended.   For example, does the law really say that a life jacket MUST he *worn* while skiing?   If so, I would sure like to see how that is worded.   Barefoot water skiiers tend to *not* wear the Coast Guard approved life jackets.  Instead, a wet suit is worn (even in warm water).   The reason is simple, taking a fall barefooting will rip most jackets right off your body.  And I can tell you that it doesn’t feel too good to have a life jacket ripped off.   If you wear a wet suit, and keep your body lines smooth, you will skim across the surface of the water.  The special "barefoot" suits have extra padding on the seat (what you try to fall on) and chest (which is what hits when you "trip").   They provide plenty of floatation, but are not an approved life jacket.   Another place where life jackets are rarely worn are trick skiers. The jacket impedes thier motion, and the competition seems to be as much on swim suit fashion as anything else.   Rod McInnis

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They are no longer US Coast Guard approved which makes them illegal in most states.  The reason is that they are exceptionally dangerous and should never be used on a human. Pat — "Reality is meaningless, perception is everything"  PH

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Does anyone know of a source for used (or new) ski belt life preservers?…I’ve heard that they are no longer "legal?" Don Land

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Question:

Greg, sounds like you got some good advice from Gene. Would also like to throw in the name of a good guide in Sterling. John Lesterson PO Box 865 Sterling, AK 99673 907-262-7319 Has a Halibut boat, Dory boat for Kenai salmon fishing and does trips in remote areas for trophy sized Rainbows. Have a blast, Steve

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I am looking for all the information I can find concerning the fishing & camping situation for the Anchorage(within 2- 3 hours) – Kenai area. I am looking for a day guide for three persons. Also I am looking for 2 – 3 different areas to camp with good fishing as well as good sightseeing there and on the trip to get there. Almost finally I am looking for specific information on what is working and where. Finally, I am looking for a book or guide covering any or all of the above info. P.S. I would also like crowd updates Our trip will cover AUG21 – AUG27 Thank you, Greg in GA

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Greg,  August is one of the best times to be on the Kenai.  Most of the toursist crowd is gone, hunting is starting so the locals are changing sports and the Silver and Rainbow fishing is great. Some tent camp areas are the Russian River camp area (near the town of Coopers Landing), the Quartz Creek campground (on Kenai lake at the headwaters of the river), plus a whole series of campgrounds along the river at Jims Landing, Upper Skilak Lake & Lower Skilak Lake (if you are going to fish the middle section of the river), Centenial Park (in Soldotna – for fishing the lower river).  Russian is the nicest in my opinion because you can walk the river to the falls and sight fish rainbows and Silvers, plus you generally can see a bear or two. Flies to use are generally Flash Flies and bright flies for Silvers, Flesh Flies and Egg patters for the Rainbows and Dollies Some good books are "Fishing the Kenai Peninsula" by Dan Sisson, "Flyfishing Alaska" by Tony Route and "Fly Patters of Alaska" by AK Flyfishers Federation (for pattens).  Don’t get that fishing the road system of Alaska by Pederton (guy was a tourist, spent probally two weeks here and wrote a book by reading others). Some good guide companies are Freebird (Mike out of Sterling – have his number in the office.  Will E-mail), and Troutfishers in Cooper Landing – will send also by E -mail.   — Gene Dobrzynski, Eagle River, Alaska

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