Question:

Sounds damn good to me Joe! Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On Sat Feb  16  Joe Humphreys  will will demonstrate his casting  for catching fish then he and around 30 other -tiers will show you beginners how to tie something the fish might like. I plann to attend and spend saturday nigtht in Morganton and fish somewhere Sunday if temp is 42 or above. Walt, Opie any of you locals  interested. Jeff I will share a motel with you if you can stay  in bed till at least 5 in morning. But I will not get up and start driving at 2:30 AM to beat the traffic!       Joe-/*

Response:

joe – i wouldn’t travel to charlotte even if nicole kidman offered to suck my wanker there…so, i trust you’ll understand if i decline your generous offer.  now, if you can get joe or nicole to demonstrate their ability in hyde county, i’d happily reconsider… jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On Sat Feb  16  Joe Humphreys  will will demonstrate his casting  for catching fish then he and around 30 other -tiers will show you beginners how to tie something the fish might like. I plann to attend and spend saturday nigtht in Morganton and fish somewhere Sunday if temp is 42 or above. Walt, Opie any of you locals  interested. Jeff I will share a motel with you if you can stay  in bed till at least 5 in morning. But I will not get up and start driving at 2:30 AM to beat the traffic!       Joe-/*

Response:

On Sat Feb  16  Joe Humphreys  will will demonstrate his casting  for catching fish then he and around 30 other -tiers will show you beginners how to tie something the fish might like. I plann to attend and spend saturday nigtht in Morganton and fish somewhere Sunday if temp is 42 or above. Walt, Opie any of you locals  interested. Jeff I will share a motel with you if you can stay  in bed till at least 5 in morning. But I will not get up and start driving at 2:30 AM to beat the traffic!       Joe-/*

Joe, no can do….. I have show/shop duties…. walt

Response:

On Sat Feb  16  Joe Humphreys  will will demonstrate his casting  for catching fish then he and around 30 other -tiers will show you beginners how to tie something the fish might like. I plann to attend and spend saturday nigtht in Morganton and fish somewhere Sunday if temp is 42 or above. Walt, Opie any of you locals  interested. Jeff I will share a motel with you if you can stay  in bed till at least 5 in morning. But I will not get up and start driving at 2:30 AM to beat the traffic!       Joe-/*

Response:

Question:

yes, there is a "magic fly". from ronco (makers of the banjo minnow) comes the ultimate in flies for the flyfisherman.  no longer will one have to sein insects or actually check to see what’s hatching.  not only will this fly imitate any insect in all it’s stages of life… it also morphs into streamer patterns to imitate all known forms of baitfish in fresh and saltwater. developed from space age polymers discovered on a covert survailance mission over cuba in 1964 while i was flying a stealth fighter this is the answer to all your needs. not only will the fly mimic anything, but the hooked is forged from double secret alloys discovered when the aliens landed in roswell.  the hook is guaranteed to never break, bend, or rust… and the alien technology allows the hook to change sizes and shape to match the necessary bug or baitfish. our goal is to provide you one fly, and 10% of all proceeds will go towards supporting all the third world tyers who will be forced out of business for wasting your time and money over the past many years. this fly has been extensively tested by the very best fishermen (who of course worship me and my products).  for just 3 payments of $49.99 this fly can be yours. these will not be stocked in your local flyshops, so act now because quantities are limited.  the first 500 customers will receive a free booklet on my experiences fishing and flying stealth fighters for the us government during the cold war. orders can be placed via the web at : www.isuckerborneveryminute.ca chris

Response:

yes, there is a "magic fly". orders can be placed via the web at :

Excellent!  I lose a lot of flies in the bushes, so do you accept bulk orders?  I might need a gross every month. Kevin, the soon-to-be impoverished

Response:

The most important thing is presentation, and after that, size and color (which proves, size does matter). I have been successful using limited flies, and presenting them in different ways….and am currently trying to pare my large collection down…. The problem I always run into, is visiting local flyshops, and hearing what the hot/magic Nymph, Streamer and Dryfly are for certain rivers, and not being able to resist (no matter how close they look to what I already have)…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Several books I’ve read have mentioned that some people maintain that you can fill your fly box with one single fly (various sizes and colors) and always do just fine. Other resources mention that anyone who maintains this is an idiot. Strangely enough, one of my resources that says this is nonsense ("A Fish Bums Guide to Catching Larger Trout" by Mike Croft) later shows a drawing of his fly box, and you guessed it; its all chironomids. Go figure… So anyway, whats the truth: is there a ‘magic fly’? (and if so, what is it?) riverman

Response:

Several books I’ve read have mentioned that some people maintain that you can fill your fly box with one single fly (various sizes and colors) and always do just fine. Other resources mention that anyone who maintains this is an idiot.

They’re both right  :-).   I’m convinced that having the "wrong fly" is rarely the reason when I don’t catch fish; and that even the wrong fly well presented will catch more fish that the right one presented poorly.   So yeah, a single fly in various sizes and variations will do just fine.   All other things being equal, however, it probably would be more productive to have exactly the right imitation in the right size and color, hence the existance of the fly tying industry. Joe F.

Response:

yes, there is a "magic fly". from ronco (makers of the banjo minnow)

There’s more to this sad saga than you realize: I know the ‘inventor’ of the ‘Banjo Minnow’ personally. He’s an outfitter from central Maine, and a bigger asshole never walked this earth, GG and CF included. riverman

Response:

What he said….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Several books I’ve read have mentioned that some people maintain that you can fill your fly box with one single fly (various sizes and colors) and always do just fine. Other resources mention that anyone who maintains this is an idiot. They’re both right  :-).   I’m convinced that having the "wrong fly" is rarely the reason when I don’t catch fish; and that even the wrong fly well presented will catch more fish that the right one presented poorly.   So yeah, a single fly in various sizes and variations will do just fine. All other things being equal, however, it probably would be more productive to have exactly the right imitation in the right size and color, hence the existance of the fly tying industry. Joe F.

Response:

I’d say ‘no’, but thats because an Adams is a pretty well-defined fly, isn’t it?

Yeah, and we all tie it wrong.  The Adams was originally a down-wing caddis type fly. Kevin, who ties them just like all the rest of you.

Response:

On a fertile, heavily fished river, especially in the midst of a hatch, you need to have a decent imitation if you want consistent results. Some places (like some spring creeks) there might be several different hatches going on, and you’d better pick the right pattern, because the fish are keyed to that one thing.

I’d like to be able to find more opportunties to fish a single strong hatch, much less a multiple fly one. Willi

Response:

I’m much more interested in and generally concentrate on presentation over fly selection. However, the importance of a "good" pattern depends on what type of water you’re fishing. On lightly fished infertile waters, like Walt described in NC, pattern is usually not very important. On a fertile, heavily fished river, especially in the midst of a hatch, you need to have a decent imitation if you want consistent results.

Some places (like some spring creeks) there might be several different hatches going on, and you’d better pick the right pattern, because the fish are keyed to that one thing.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – wayno  (frightening, when you think that "citizen fisherman" makes george look like willi loehman…) Don’t know how to take this, being mentioned in the same sentence with two such illustrious fellows. Well, it SOUNDED like a compliment (as to you, anyway)…

Well, it did SOUND that way to me too, but you can never be sure around here. Willi

Response:

wayno  (frightening, when you think that "citizen fisherman" makes george look like willi loehman…) Don’t know how to take this, being mentioned in the same sentence with two such illustrious fellows.

Well, it SOUNDED like a compliment (as to you, anyway)… …well, unless you and Ginkles got into a "Here’s my picture so you can see how to be a better cross-dresser" exchange and yours won…and if you did, might I suggest that some mysteries are best left as such…<G TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Willi

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wayno  (frightening, when you think that "citizen fisherman" makes george look like willi loehman…) Don’t know how to take this, being mentioned in the same sentence with two such illustrious fellows.

Yeah, I’m still trying to figger that one out

Response:

<<  later shows a drawing of his fly box, and you guessed it; its all chironomids. Go figure… That isn’t his fly box. That is his chironomid box. He may also have an Adams box and a grasshopper box and a mayfly box, etc.

And he can still float in his float tube?? riverman

Response:

There’s more to this sad saga than you realize: I know the ‘inventor’ of the ‘Banjo Minnow’ personally. He’s an outfitter from central Maine, and a bigger asshole never walked this earth, GG and CF included. riverman

        good god.  surely a battalion of navy seals has been dispatched to eliminate the cretin. wayno  (frightening, when you think that "citizen fisherman" makes george look like willi loehman…) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

They’re both right  :-).   I’m convinced that having the "wrong fly" is rarely the reason when I don’t catch fish; and that even the wrong fly well presented will catch more fish that the right one presented poorly.   So yeah, a single fly in various sizes and variations will do just fine.   All other things being equal, however, it probably would be more productive to have exactly the right imitation in the right size and color, hence the existance of the fly tying industry.

I’m much more interested in and generally concentrate on presentation over fly selection. However, the importance of a "good" pattern depends on what type of water you’re fishing. On lightly fished infertile waters, like Walt described in NC, pattern is usually not very important. On a fertile, heavily fished river, especially in the midst of a hatch, you need to have a decent imitation if you want consistent results. Willi

Response:

wayno  (frightening, when you think that "citizen fisherman" makes george look like willi loehman…)

Don’t know how to take this, being mentioned in the same sentence with two such illustrious fellows. Willi

Response:

<<  later shows a drawing of his fly box, and you guessed it; its all chironomids. Go figure… That isn’t his fly box. That is his chironomid box. He may also have an Adams box and a grasshopper box and a mayfly box, etc.

Response:

Several books I’ve read have mentioned that some people maintain that you can fill your fly box with one single fly (various sizes and colors) and always do just fine. Other resources mention that anyone who maintains this is an idiot. Strangely enough, one of my resources that says this is nonsense ("A Fish Bums Guide to Catching Larger Trout" by Mike Croft) later shows a drawing of his fly box, and you guessed it; its all chironomids. Go figure… So anyway, whats the truth: is there a ‘magic fly’? (and if so, what is it?) riverman

Response:

So anyway, whats the truth: is there a ‘magic fly’? (and if so, what is it?)

You have a pretty broad interpretation of "one single fly" when you qualify it with "various sizes and colors". I mean, is an Adams with an olive thorax still an Adams ? Still, the answer to your query is no, of course not. Do you really think we’d spend enormous amounts of mental and physical energy in the pursuit of trout with a fly if it were as simple as tying on the "magic fly" ? — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

In my experience the truth lies somewhere in between, and again, I preface this that this applies to fishing here in NZ and I do appreciate there will be differences with circumstances elsewhere in world. I have found that presentation exceeds the choice of fly significantly. the best tied fly will not fool any fish if it is not behaving as the natural might. Trout also, during the course of their day, will eat small stones, sticks, leaves and all manner of things, as Ed Zern once said who is to say the trout doesn’t think our fly is a bit of steel with feathers attached and wants to see what it tastes like?.. they eat everything else???? In all seriousness, If my flybox only contained halfbacks, pheasant tails, hare’s ears, Adams, Stimulators, Humpies I think I would fish pretty happily forever. but what fun would that be….. I’ve never believed in the magic fly, but some styles certainly have a magic about them. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Several books I’ve read have mentioned that some people maintain that you can fill your fly box with one single fly (various sizes and colors) and always do just fine. Other resources mention that anyone who maintains this is an idiot. Strangely enough, one of my resources that says this is nonsense ("A Fish Bums Guide to Catching Larger Trout" by Mike Croft) later shows a drawing of his fly box, and you guessed it; its all chironomids. Go figure… So anyway, whats the truth: is there a ‘magic fly’? (and if so, what is it?) riverman

Response:

So anyway, whats the truth: is there a ‘magic fly’? (and if so, what is it?) riverman

        it’s all a matter of location and temerature.  i have never seen a stream in the appalachians from april through november that i couldn’t catch fish with any size 14 dry fly or nymph in the popular pantheon.  *if i presented it properly*, of course.         it ain’t exactly the toughest thing in the world to do. your friend in the old north state wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

So anyway, whats the truth: is there a ‘magic fly’? (and if so, what is it?) You have a pretty broad interpretation of "one single fly" when you qualify it with "various sizes and colors". I mean, is an Adams with an olive thorax still an Adams ?

I’d say ‘no’, but thats because an Adams is a pretty well-defined fly, isn’t it? And then again, saying ‘a generic upwing dry’ is a bit too general. For an example of what I mean, go to http://www.flyanglersonline.com/ and follow the links on the left to ‘Fly Tying’, then scroll down and select ‘#9: SHWAPF’. I’ve heard the same claim about chironomids, and also about some other wet fly (which I’ve forgotten). Still, the answer to your query is no, of course not. Do you really think we’d spend enormous amounts of mental and physical energy in the pursuit of trout with a fly if it were as simple as tying on the "magic fly" ?

Hmm, I’m not convinced that we fly fish because its the <easiest way to catch fish. I figured we deliberately make it harder by trying to design flies for specific events at specific times, mostly for the fun of demonstrably ‘figuring it out’. riverman

Response:

hmmm…in the past couple seasons I have taken a fancy to using #16 parachute ant patterns in all sorts of different conditions and have been consistantly surprised at what a productive fly it is…add to that a mitt-full of various Usuals, some Adams in small sizes, a couple Ausable Wulffs and a few bead-head caddis larvae and I’m a happy camper (except on those days when I need 150 other patterns or life just won’t be worth living…heehee) Eugene Knapik Toronto

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hmmm, even if one fly did it all, I really enjoy tying and presenting different flies as a major part of this hobby.  I am always interested in new patterns, new technology, and new research.  It is what makes it so fun for me and, of course, talking with and experiencing fly fishing with my buddies who have lots of opinions about patterns is pretty cool too. Padishar Creel — If I only could take one fly to my home waters it be the bead head pheasant tail…but it would be so lonely

Response:

Hmmm, even if one fly did it all, I really enjoy tying and presenting different flies as a major part of this hobby.  I am always interested in new patterns, new technology, and new research.  It is what makes it so fun for me and, of course, talking with and experiencing fly fishing with my buddies who have lots of opinions about patterns is pretty cool too. Padishar Creel — If I only could take one fly to my home waters it be the bead head pheasant tail…but it would be so lonely

Response:

So anyway, whats the truth: is there a ‘magic fly’?

You can’t ever go wrong with a #6 Sofa Pillow.

Response:

Question:

I’m starting to think that the Black Ant is a very underappreciated fly. I’ve been catching fish right and left with them lately — cutthroat, brookies, and rainbows — in both streams and lakes. I get the feeling that trout must really like the taste of ants. It’s become my "go to" fly when there’s no obvious hatch. Another thing is that the Black Ant ridiculously easy to tie, even for an all-thumbs tier like me. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I’m starting to think that the Black Ant is a very underappreciated fly. I’ve been catching fish right and left with them lately — cutthroat, brookies, and rainbows — in both streams and lakes. I get the feeling that trout must really like the taste of ants. It’s become my "go to" fly when there’s no obvious hatch. Another thing is that the Black Ant ridiculously easy to tie, even for an all-thumbs tier like me. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

I’ve heard a story once about a trouts love of ants. I think it happened in Texas. A whole mess of ants were blown onto a lake and the trout gorged themselves on them. The toxins in the ants then killed a lot of the fish. They love em to death.

Response:

The black Ant is my numero uno summer fly, especially when nothing is hatching. I’m starting to think that the Black Ant is a very underappreciated fly. I’ve been catching fish right and left with them lately — cutthroat, brookies, and rainbows — in both streams and lakes. I get the feeling that trout must really like the taste of ants. It’s become my "go to" fly when there’s no obvious hatch. Another thing is that the Black Ant ridiculously easy to tie, even for an all-thumbs tier like me. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

A few years back, I heard that 10% of the earth’s animal biomass is ANTS! Charlie Quinton Laramie, Wyo. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m starting to think that the Black Ant is a very underappreciated fly. I’ve been catching fish right and left with them lately — cutthroat, brookies, and rainbows — in both streams and lakes. I get the feeling that trout must really like the taste of ants. It’s become my "go to" fly when there’s no obvious hatch. Another thing is that the Black Ant ridiculously easy to tie, even for an all-thumbs tier like me.

Response:

A few years back, I heard that 10% of the earth’s animal biomass is ANTS! Charlie Quinton Laramie, Wyo. On Tue, 24

and the other 90% is timbo! ba-ba-ba-bing…. waldo Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A few years back, I heard that 10% of the earth’s animal biomass is ANTS! Charlie Quinton Laramie, Wyo. On Tue, 24 and the other 90% is timbo! ba-ba-ba-bing….

I guess that leaves the rest of us in the roundoff error. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I guess that leaves the rest of us in the roundoff error.

…or somewhere beneath the meniscus.

Response:

I guess that leaves the rest of us in the roundoff error. …or somewhere beneath the meniscus.

I experienced a double-take last night. Espn sportscenter….one of the announcers mentions: "somethin or other ‘meniscus’ ". I dropped the book I was reading and stared at the screen in disbelief…. no more mention…mebbe I’m suffering from audio-hallucinations. btw wolfie…you gonna make it to fall ball? waldo — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

I agree.. last weekend, when nothing else was working, I caught goldens on an 18… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The black Ant is my numero uno summer fly, especially when nothing is hatching. I’m starting to think that the Black Ant is a very underappreciated fly. I’ve been catching fish right and left with them lately — cutthroat, brookies, and rainbows — in both streams and lakes. I get the feeling that trout must really like the taste of ants. It’s become my "go to" fly when there’s no obvious hatch. Another thing is that the Black Ant ridiculously easy to tie, even for an all-thumbs tier like me. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam) — Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

– Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad mp3 songs: http://www.mp3.com/particlesalad

Response:

…btw wolfie…you gonna make it to fall ball?

Nothing would give me greater pleasure Walt, and I am honored that this august company considers me worthy of invitation.  Unfortunately, my work schedule will probably not permit it.  I was a bit profligate with my vacation time earlier in the year and am now paying the price.

Response:

0] psalad wrote : I agree.. last weekend, when nothing else was working, I caught goldens on an : 18… Gotcha some goldens–congrats. A couple of rainbows that I killed last year on Fish Creek south of Devils Postpile had their crops chock full of those big Sierra black ants.

Many years ago I fished Beck’s Lakes up that way and killed ‘em with Blank Ants. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

0] psalad wrote : I agree.. last weekend, when nothing else was working, I caught goldens on an : 18… Gotcha some goldens–congrats. A couple of rainbows that I killed last year on Fish Creek south of Devils Postpile had their crops chock full of those big Sierra black ants. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

Response:

Many years ago I fished Beck’s Lakes up that way and killed ‘em with Blank Ants.

I’m certain that there’s an easy joke in there ;^) /daytripper

Response:

Seems I recall something about "furic acid (?)" in ants that trout love like we love salt. Dave

Response:

Seems I recall something about "furic acid (?)" in ants that trout love like we love salt. Dave

Many ants use Formic acid to paralyse their prey. Any quantity of this is extremely poisonous, and will even kill small mammals and fish. Incidents of fish kills due to eating large quantities of ants have been documented. TL MC

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seems I recall something about "furic acid (?)" in ants that trout love like we love salt. Dave Many ants use Formic acid to paralyse their prey. Any quantity of this is extremely poisonous, and will even kill small mammals and fish. Incidents of fish kills due to eating large quantities of ants have been documented.

Are you sure those incidents weren’t really due to Timbo using a black ant pattern? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Many ants use Formic acid to paralyse their prey. Any quantity of this is extremely poisonous, and will even kill small mammals and fish. Incidents of fish kills due to eating large quantities of ants have been documented. TL MC

This opens an interesting side question.  Awhile back Mr. G brought up the scent question associated with flys.  I have watched big Browns on a small spring creek here swim up to ant patterns and bump them without taking.  Would crushed, dried ants used as a scent mask assist with the use of an ant fly.  This, of course, opens many more questions of ethics, etc.  If we douse our flys with chemicals to help them float, could, should we use scent masks and are they effective? — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Seems I recall something about "furic acid (?)" in ants that trout love like we love salt. Dave

Formic acid.  Same root as the Latin generic ‘Formica’.  Also, incidentally, the same name as the hard plastic countertop material which is presumably made from some mix including formic acid. I read somewhere that fish love ants because of the formic acid which provides a good dose of some nutrient which they otherwise find difficult to acquire.

Response:

This opens an interesting side question.  Awhile back Mr. G brought up the scent question associated with flys.  I have watched big Browns on a small spring creek here swim up to ant patterns and bump them without taking.  Would crushed, dried ants used as a scent mask assist with the use of an ant fly.  This, of course, opens many more questions of ethics, etc.  If we douse our flys with chemicals to help them float, could, should we use scent masks and are they effective?

This prompts me to bring up another quetion. I always tie on my first fly before I use any bug repellant, and after I use bug repellant I try to get it off my fingers before I retie. Does anyone else think that the scent of bug repellant might put a fish off taking a fly? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

… Does anyone else think that the scent of bug repellant might put a fish off taking a fly?

No doubt about it in my experience. I use Cutters which has a fairly high concentration of Deet. No experience with other repellants but the fish are definitely put off by Cutters. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I always tie on my first fly before I use any bug repellant, and after I use bug repellant I try to get it off my fingers before I retie. Does anyone else think that the scent of bug repellant might put a fish off taking a fly?

My concern with bug repellant other than the taste (if you’ve ever gotten 95% DEET in your mouth you know what I mean) would be the effect on any part of your line/leader/tippet that you might get some on.  The stuff is murder on lines. Dave If we didn’t have some bad days, they would call it ‘catching’, not ‘fishing’.

Response:

could, should we use scent masks and are they effective?

I have quit using any cement on the flies i tie, do not use chemicals to make them float and rub them in mud before i use them. I think that flies that have caught a fish are more effective than new ones…Is this using a scent?   I would say yes, but it works for me. I know people who will not fish for catfish or carp without putting mayfly scent on their flies and claim that they are much more effective when fished that way. They could be right. Big Dale

Response:

I am certain it does Royal Wulff.  I always wash my hands before touching the fly because I have noticed an improvement in the number of strikes I get.  Trout have a remarkable sense of smell. Ernie Harrison Like to make fly-fishing stuff?  See: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always tie on my first fly before I use any bug repellant, and after I use bug repellant I try to get it off my fingers before I retie. Does anyone else think that the scent of bug repellant might put a fish off taking a fly?

Response:

Pheasant tail nymphs may have the scent of crushed pheasant, but I’ve never seen a fish rise to a pheasant. CDC flies are a different chapter altogether.. Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many ants use Formic acid to paralyse their prey. Any quantity of this is extremely poisonous, and will even kill small mammals and fish. Incidents of fish kills due to eating large quantities of ants have been documented. TL MC This opens an interesting side question.  Awhile back Mr. G brought up the scent question associated with flys.  I have watched big Browns on a small spring creek here swim up to ant patterns and bump them without taking.  Would crushed, dried ants used as a scent mask assist with the use of an ant fly.  This, of course, opens many more questions of ethics, etc.  If we douse our flys with chemicals to help them float, could, should we use scent masks and are they effective? — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I always tie on my first fly before I use any bug repellant, and after I use bug repellant I try to get it off my fingers before I retie. Does anyone else think that the scent of bug repellant might put a fish off taking a fly?

Bug repellent and several other things as well, will effectively prevent you from catching a lot of fish. I no longer use anything at all after reading about a  lot of instances where this was so, and also experiencing it myself. This is most apparent when bait fishing, but night fishing for seatrout with flies is also more or less a waste of time if you get repellent or similar substances like reel oil etc on your line or flies. Even small amounts will suffice to prevent the fish from taking. Hugh Falkus and several other authors also wrote about this. One reason for the use of "smelly" baits etc is the fact that these baits "mask" any other smells, like human sweat etc, thus making the fish less wary. Some extremely sensitive fish, like carp, catfish, and eels, will not go near a bait or anything else which has certain smells on it. By the same token, some smells seem attractive to fish, so it would be reasonable to assume that a fly treated with such a substance might result in better takes. This would then be close to bait fishing though. Many Scandinavian anglers in the Baltic sea, soak their flies in herring oil or similar before use, and swear that they are much more effective because of this. I have tried this, and it works quite well, especially on Cod and Herring. As it is not usual to catch "large numbers" of seatrout in the baltic ( two or three per trip is in fact well above average usually ! ), it is difficult to say just how effective these oils are on these fish, but that they make a difference I have no doubt. One of the best ways to "clean" your hands etc, before fishing is to "wash" them in bankside mud, and then in the stream. This will often increase your catch rate if the fish are being difficult, especially last minute refusals, or nosing the fly and not taking.  It may also be that some floatants cause refusals.  On difficult waters and difficult fish I try to avoid using any floatants at all. Do not lick your fingers or put your hands in your mouth at all ,after doing the above. There are quite a few nasty diseases floating around, which may be transferred in this way. Ranging from Weil

Question:

A lawn is a good place to learn, just cast the line without a leader or hook..

Hi Ernie, I agree about the lawn(or a decent sized patch of grass) being a good place to learn, but I believe a leader of about 8-9 ft in length with a tiny bit of cotton wool instead of a fly, balances up the line nicely. — Bill

Response:

I’ve been reading a lot about fly fishing; so I’m ready to hit the water. But what I’m still not sure of is how do I get the line out before the cast,especially when I’m fishing stillwaters, or want to fish cross current on a river. Thanks Randy Kadish Go to the Sports section of the following site. Several good videos

on fly fishing. Good Luck http://www.totalmarketing.com

Response:

go back to the library and check out some instructional videos on flyfishing….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been reading a lot about fly fishing; so I’m ready to hit the water. But what I’m still not sure of is how do I get the line out before the cast,especially when I’m fishing stillwaters, or want to fish cross current on a river. Thanks Randy Kadish

Response:

tie on some kind of leader…that gets down in diameter once or twice…will give you the light end section that’ll help more than the dead pull of the line ..(too heavy). steve d.

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A lawn is a good place to learn, just cast the line without a leader or hook.. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NB beginners usually find it much easier to learn on running rather than still water, because you need the line straight(ish) for the pickup for the next cast, and the current straightens it for you. I disagree. With the current going, it was hellish for me trying to keep the line worked, the cast out of the trees, the fly on the leader, the line that had been stripped our of the current, and staying upright all at the same time, and I was on a slow, large creek. So, I’d say that you should try to find a farm pond before you venture to the river. Bryce Carron Rockford, Tn

Response:

I’ve been reading a lot about fly fishing; so I’m ready to hit the water. But what I’m still not sure of is how do I get the line out before the cast,especially when I’m fishing stillwaters, or want to fish cross current on a river. Thanks Randy Kadish

Response:

I’ve been reading a lot about fly fishing; so I’m ready to hit the water. But what I’m still not sure of is how do I get the line out before the cast,especially when I’m fishing stillwaters, or want to fish cross current on a river.

Start with 10-12 ft. of line beyond the tip-top.  You can roll-cast that to aerialize it, then add about 5 ft. per false cast, stripping more off the reel with your line hand on each back cast. NB beginners usually find it much easier to learn on running rather than still water, because you need the line straight(ish) for the pickup for the next cast, and the current straightens it for you. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

NB beginners usually find it much easier to learn on running rather than still water, because you need the line straight(ish) for the pickup for the next cast, and the current straightens it for you.

I disagree. With the current going, it was hellish for me trying to keep the line worked, the cast out of the trees, the fly on the leader, the line that had been stripped our of the current, and staying upright all at the same time, and I was on a slow, large creek. So, I’d say that you should try to find a farm pond before you venture to the river. Bryce Carron Rockford, Tn

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Question:

Hello all- I would appreciate any and all information on fly fishing in Cherokee, North Carolina. Especially interested in effective patterns for late May / early June. Locations and / or contacts would be helpful. Thank You — Joe

Response:

Hello all- I would appreciate any and all information on fly fishing in Cherokee, North Carolina. Especially interested in effective patterns for late May / early June. Locations and / or contacts would be helpful. Thank You

I’m in the piedmont area of NC but If you’re from out of state you might want to get the fishing regulations from the NC Wildlife Resources Commission at 512 N. Salisbury St. Raliegh, NC 27604-1188 Call info office (919) 662-4381.  It lists locations to fish by county.  Marry that to some maps and it’ll be a good start.  Since many of the streams are trophy streams and have various limitations the locations are important.  The book also has pages of advertisements for shops.  There are probably some in the Cherokee/Murphy area that you can phone directly.

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone recommend sources of "formulas" for tying leaders. I purchase a Maxima "kit" from Cabela’s which was advertised to contain "instructions" but was told by their Customer sevice rep that the mfg. does not supply such instructions. I have an old Orvis formula chart an article from Fly Fisherman which covers a few George Harvey formulas but would like to find something more extensive. Ideas? Tight Lines Ted Miller Can anyone recommend sources of "formulas" for tying leaders. I purchase a Maxima "kit" from Cabela’s which was advertised to contain "instructions" but was told by their Customer sevice rep that the mfg. does not supply such instructions. I have an old Orvis formula chart an article from Fly Fisherman which covers a few George Harvey formulas but would like to find something more extensive. Ideas? Tight Lines Ted Miller

Ted: For what it’s worth, I’ve been using George Harvey formula leaders for many years, mostly in the east but on many western rivers as well, and have found these leaders to be entirely satisfactory.  Of course, on stream I end up making all sorts of adjustments, depending on what I’m fishing and what the water is like, so I’m not sure what "formula" I would have at any given time.  The Harvey formulas are good starting points, however. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Hi, One of my favorites, especially for Atlantic Salmon. 55 % Butt (heavy section)(mostly of 1 peice, can be 2) 25% Tapered Sections ( 4 short decending weights) 20% tippet (1 section) This is an easy formula to remember – 100" leader, and easy to work up or down in proportion For example 55" – 30 lb,   25" ( approx – 6" each) – 25lb, 20lb,15lb, 12lb,   20" – 8 lb. Works for me. Dennis Grant Atlantic FLy Fishing School Brookfield, NS

Response:

Might also look at http://www.flyshop.com/Tactics/01-97Leaders/index.html for more information.

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Can anyone recommend sources of "formulas" for tying leaders. I purchase a Maxima "kit" from Cabela’s which was advertised to contain "instructions" but was told by their Customer sevice rep that the mfg. does not supply such instructions. I have an old Orvis formula chart an article from Fly Fisherman which covers a few George Harvey formulas but would like to find something more extensive. Ideas? Tight Lines Ted Miller

I noticed that some of those pocket version books such us "Guide of knots for leaders" have a lot of info that can be useful.   They are laminated so you could have them with you when you are fishing.  I am pretty sure you could get them in your local fishing store.   Arek.

Response:

Ted; I bought the Maxima Kit from Cabela’s three years ago and it did come with a table of tapers. Can’t imagine why they arn’t putting it in the package now. I am providing several typical taper formulas in this posting and if you want others I will follow up based on any description of use that you provide. Enjoy! Regards, Ken Table ! Maxima Chameleon Leader size to Hook Size Size    Test    Dia     Hook 6x      2lb.    .oo5    18-24 5x      3lb.    .006    14-20 4x      4lb.    .007    10-16 3x      5lb.    .008    6-12 2x      6lb.    .009    2-10 1x      8lb.    .010    2/0-6 01x     10lb.   .012    4/0-4 02x     12lb.   .013    6/0-2 Join sections with blood knot Table 2 Maxima 60/20/20 Tapered Leader Formulas 5-7 Weight Lines 10′ Leader Test            Dia             Length 25              .020                    40" 20              .017                    27" 15              .015    (4")       (5")       6" 12 (02x)                .013    (4")       (5")       6" 10 (01x)                .012    (4")       (5")       6" 8 (1x)          .010    (4")       (5")       6" 6 (2x)          .009    (4")       (5")       24" 4 (4x)          .007    (4")       (24")       3 (5x)          .006    (24") 5-7 Weight Lines 12′ Leader Test            Dia             Length 25              .020                    52" 20              .017                    35" 15              .015            (5")       6" 12 (02x)                .013            (5")       6" 10 (01x)                .012            (5")       6" 8 (1x)          .010            (5")       6" 6 (2x)          .009            (5")       6" 4 (4x)          .007            (5")       (28") 3 (5x)          .006            (28") 8-9 Weight Lines 10′ Leader Test            Dia             Length 30              .022                    44" 25              .020                    27" 20              .017    (5")       (6")       8"" 15              .015    (5")       (6")       8" 12 (02x)                .013    (5")       (6")       8" 10 (01x)                .012    (5")       (6")       24" 8 (1x)          .010    (5")       (24") 6 (2x)          .009    (24") 8-9 Weight Lines 12′ Leader Test            Dia             Length 30              .022                    52" 25              .020                    35" 20              .017            (6")       7"" 15              .015            (6")       7" 12 (02x)                .013            (6")       7" 10 (01x)                .012            (6")       7" 8 (1x)          .010            (6")       28" 6 (2x)          .009            (28") – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone recommend sources of "formulas" for tying leaders. I purchase a Maxima "kit" from Cabela’s which was advertised to contain "instructions" but was told by their Customer sevice rep that the mfg. does not supply such instructions. I have an old Orvis formula chart an article from Fly Fisherman which covers a few George Harvey formulas but would like to find something more extensive. Ideas? Tight Lines Ted Miller

Response:

Question:

It’s pretty sad when the first post to a new group, fly tying, is SPAM. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The FISHING LOG is a Powerful Software Program for Windows  It tracks every aspect of your fishing trips/sessions in great detail. It is colorful, extremely powerful and very user friendly. Keeps track of just about anything you can think of in Fresh Water or Salt. It is a large program of research quality but you can just keep up the sections YOU wish. Export data to other programs for analysis, printing  and charting. The best part is that if you download it yourself it is FREE. Mind that the last characters in the WWW address are all UPPERCASE!                 Bob Sheedy                Master Angler http://www.mbnet.mb.ca/~sheedyr/FISHING.HTM

Response:

The FISHING LOG is a Powerful Software Program for Windows  It tracks every aspect of your fishing trips/sessions in great detail. It is colorful, extremely powerful and very user friendly. Keeps track of just about anything you can think of in Fresh Water or Salt. It is a large program of research quality but you can just keep up the sections YOU wish. Export data to other programs for analysis, printing  and charting. The best part is that if you download it yourself it is FREE. Mind that the last characters in the WWW address are all UPPERCASE!                  Bob Sheedy                 Master Angler http://www.mbnet.mb.ca/~sheedyr/FISHING.HTM

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Question:

[snip snip] in the other direction. The Blue is good as is the Frying pan but the smaller and less fished rivers and creeks of N. Co. are a true joy. The fish may not be as big but the crowds are not there and the experience is

[snip snip] they won’t be for long if this keeps up… Tim Walker

Response:

I am going to Colorado next summer to fly fish.  Since I will be driving from West Virginia, I would prefer not to go more than 2 hours from Denver. I need advice as to the best streams to fish and possibly places to stay. I would prefer a cabin or cottage.  What about the South Platte, Fryingpan, Colorado, and Blue River? Which would be the best choice? Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks for you time. Scott

Response:

There are many good places within 2 hrs of Denver. The S.Platte is over fished and crowed with very inconsiderate fishermen. I would suggest going in the other direction. The Blue is good as is the Frying pan but the smaller and less fished rivers and creeks of N. Co. are a true joy. The fish may not be as big but the crowds are not there and the experience is much better. Pristene settings, little or no trash. Check out the high mountain lakes and streams of the RMNP. Estes Park Anglers can help with guides and places to stay in the area.

Response:

I try and visit my some of my kids in Colo every summer.  But as you know even in late August the So Platte at Deckers was unfishable and the Arkansas as well.  But maybe this summer will be normal…. South Platte River in Deckers.  Take Rt 285 west out of Denver.  Turn Left at Pine Junction.  Follow to the bottom the the canyon.  Use 2 flies, RS-2 and Buckskin (both nymphs) size 18 or 20.  No larger than a 6X leader is mandatory.  Use a small floating strike indicator and place a very small shot about 6 to 8 inches from the fly.  The idea is to keep the nymph just off the bottom so adjusting the indicator for water depth is essential.  Fish places where slow water meets fast water like behind larger rocks.  The fish are there so make sure you work the section very well adjusting the indicator for depth.  Looking for flashing fish near the bottom that are feeding.  Flip the rig up stream and let the indicator float as naturally as possible.  Keep repeating until the indicator hesitates the slightest in the float.  Just raise up you rod tip and bingo! there’s a fish on.   If you use this method correctly you will get hook ups (gauranteed!!) the trick is to bring them to net on a 6X leader in fast water.  The regulations are flies and lures only, 2 fish per day over 16 inches.  Try just down stream from the trestle bridge at Deckers.  The technique is effective on all Colo streams.  The "Flies and Lies" fly shop in Deckers can also help in supplying you with flies. On a Saturday, you will not be alone.  But there are so many fish and so few fisherman that know the method and use it effectively , it has never gotten in my way.  I’d recommend getting there at 1st light (Say 5:30) fish unitl 1000 AM and then leave.  Return at say 6 Pm and fish until dark (9 PM).  I’ve found you can avoid a crowd this way.                                                indicator                                                                                                                                  micro shot                        (e.g. lil corkie) In the current, looks like this flow is right to left                                                                                !                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 !                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 ! I’d also suggest Tarryall Resevoir, over Kenosha Pass (RT 285 west and turn left at Jefferson) in south park.  Wade fish from shore with damsel fly/dragon fly/sonefly nymphs twitched just below the surface (long leader, 10′).  You can cast to feeding fish.  Fish the side that has the paved road frontage toward the dam (in between the stone jettys).  There is very good dry fly activity there after the sun goes down (say 7pm) and dark. (Native browns, stocked rainbows (12-14") and even some cutthroat and kokanee).  Tarryall creek (not subject to runoff) downstream from the resevoir is also pretty good (this section is now part of a private club). We have had great success on the Arkansas River down stream from Salida.  Good success fishing for Browns on brown stone fly nymphs fished close shore.  Best technique is walk down the middle and fish both shore lines.  The other 2 flies that have been good to us are the muddler minnow and the Renegade.  This stretch has the same regulations as the Deckers section of the So. Platte.  The signs this summer indicated it is now Public Lands all the way down to the bridge in Wellsville. Keep in touch, maybe we can "hook up" when I am out there this summer (I hope). Good fishin!!! Bill Althoff

Response:

Question:

Wouldn’t you know it, OJ’s a fly fisherman too… but I don’t think he’s been fishing for over a year now. My wife’s cousin (I’m not making this up) runs the stables in Yosemite Valley, and has guided OJ and cohorts, on horseback, to The Secret Spots. Unfortunately, I’ve only met the guy once (wife’s cousin, not OJ), and I’ve yet to extract the pertinent info from him (and I don’t mean what kind of knife OJ used to gut his fish). Anyway, I don’t know of what value this info is… It’s just one of those things a guy has to share when given the right opportunity. Perhaps this thread would be more appropriate rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tabloid newsgroup… -chuck oey — Professional Publications, Inc.                       profpubl.crl.com

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Let’s just hope he doesn’t release cutthroats.

Response:

If Judge Ito reads this I hope he accepts my invitation to snook fish in the 10000 islands.  Anyone with the patience he has must be a good person to fish with…

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Wouldn’t you know it, OJ’s a fly fisherman too… but I don’t think he’s been fishing for over a year now. My wife’s cousin (I’m not making this up) runs the stables in Yosemite Valley, and has guided OJ and cohorts, on horseback, to The Secret Spots.

That’s a good one!  Ha!  "Secret Spots" in the Yosemite Valley.  That place is Disneyworld. If only we the people who own that park could break the stranglehold that the "vendors" have on the valley, it could be returned to the majestic place it ought to be.   Yosemite Valley, where you can rent a VCR and a movie about the park and order a pizza to go with it, (in the park) so you don’t even have to look out the window of the RV! Gotta love America.  We do it like no one else! Phil Calvin                                       ‘91 Hawkgt, DoD#242

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That’s a good one!  Ha!  "Secret Spots" in the Yosemite Valley.  That place is Disneyworld. If only we the people who own that park could break the stranglehold that the "vendors" have on the valley, it could be returned to the majestic place it ought to be.  

Dream on.  The trend is toward turning all the parks over to private vendors.  "If it don’t turn a profit, it ain’t got no value." — -Wayne Trzyna

Response:

Question:

Have only fished state parks one of which is Montauk which is the beginning of the current river, also have fished outside the park in the current without much success for the limited time involved.  Look into Crane Creek.

Response:

Where is the 160 acre lake near Montauk Park?

Response:

There are a couple of great spots along the Meremac River.  The first one is just down river from the Meremac Springs State Park to the Dry Fork. The water is clear and cold as a result to the spring.  I caught the nicest brown trout last fall (18").  Caught it on a 4 weight rod with 6x tippet.  The next section is a little further down river at an access point called Cardiac Hill.  You will understand why it is named that when you spend a day on the river and try and make your way back up to the car.  You need to get a map from the conservation department.  It is very difficult to find but well worth it.  Another good spot south of St. James from I-44 is a place called "Windrush".  Privately owned and stocked.  You can pay a flat rate and release or pay by the pound.  The owners limit the stream to 15 or so a day. You need to make a reservation before you show up.  Enjoy fishing and let me know other spots you come across.

Response:

 Any Missouri flyrod fishermen here?  I would like to talk with fly fishers who frequent the Meramec,Current,or any other small Missouri streams in search of trout, smallmouth, or largemouth.                                          Thank you

Response:

Path:

monsanto.com!newspump.wustl.edu!news.starnet.net!wupost!travel!don.wortmann Distribution: world Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: TRAVEL ONLINE / ST. LOUIS ONLINE – (314) 561-4956 Lines: 4  Any Missouri flyrod fishermen here?  I would like to talk with fly fishers who frequent the Meramec,Current,or any other small Missouri streams in search of trout, smallmouth, or largemouth.                                          Thank you

One of the things I like about Missouri is the quality hunting AND fishing.  I like to go to the trophy area downstream of Montauk State Park as well as the pay-as-you-go fly only areas within the park.  Drifting jigs & wooly worms seems to one of the tickets to success.  Still kinda new at fly fishing but I should get more practice at the 160 ac. lake nearby!  Where do you go in MO? Denis Boyle

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