Question:

What an excellent book. The most common advice from the guides in the book it to slow down, look around, and try to figure out what’s going on before you tie on a fly or wade in and start fishing. It’s also amazing how many of them fish dries with 14 ft+ leaders.  Pile cast for sure. Most of them seem to prefer Double Taper lines, which made me feel good. bruce h

Response:

What an excellent book.

I checked that book out from the library about a year and a half ago. Interviewing a variety of guides from many different areas is a great idea. It was interesting reading a book with lots of different viewpoints. Lots of information to pick up. Although I enjoyed the book, I thought that the author could have asked more and better questions. Willi

Response:

Question:

….Describe how to get non-blocking routing through a toriodal interconnect fabric of any dimension.

Phhht!  Too easy.  Get a bigger hammer.      :) Wolfgang no charge for this one

Response:

*snip patent info*    Is the toxicity something we should be concerned with?

Response:

*snip patent info*    Is the toxicity something we should be concerned with?

Anything with mineral oil in it is toxic.  If you drink mineral oil for instance, you will die, probably quite horribly.  Chucking even small amounts of mineral oil into the environment is a very bad thing to do. You may remember fairly recent scandals, especially in Italy, where Olive oil was "stretched" with mineral oil. Many people died horribly, others lost their sight, and had various other nasty things happen to them. Mineral oil is also a contact poison, and may cause dermatitis and other allergic reactions. Some products produced by the ethoxylation of Nonyl Phenol, Glycerine, and various other substances are used among other things as very high grade surgical soap. Eating this will cause severe and uncontrollable vomiting, will damage the stomach, throat, etc, and depending on the other ingredients may also be toxic. Chemical analyses are available for all the substances listed in the patent. Some are toxic, some are not. Quite a few are environmental pollutants ( Long chain, non bio-degradable molecules). Ethoxylated substances change their characteristics and properties quite radically as a result of polymerisation.  Phenol for instance is an extremely dangerous and potent poison in its raw state.  It would be necessary to read all the chemical  and property analyses of the substances concerned in order to determine the toxicity of any mixture based on them. If silica is added to the stuff, this implies that it is finely ground. When dry, ground silica dust is extremely dangerous, and is number one on the list of carcinogens.  In a wet mixture it is probably relatively harmless. Not to put to fine a point on it, I would not use the stuff. TL MC

Response:

This is Ethene ( Common name Ethylene)  C2H4 The symbol above is the most common way of writing an ethylene molecule, known as a "monomer".  When polymerised this gives Polythene ( Poly Etyhlene)  which is a common thermoplastic. When combined with oxygen, it gives EO2  which is Ethylene Oxide, a highly reactive substance, which is a primary ingredient in the processes used to produce the ingredients of the stuff you sell, Gink and Xink.

On a lighter note, one of my favorite "vanity plates" to date was a simple sedan with the license plate C2H5OH (or something close to that, I can’t remember now).   It took me a while, but I eventually surmised the owner’s name was Ethel. Joe F.

Response:

On a lighter note, one of my favorite "vanity plates" to date was a simple sedan with the license plate C2H5OH (or something close to that, I can’t remember now).   It took me a while, but I eventually surmised the owner’s name was Ethel.

That would be just C2H5. — Charlie…

Response:

I would ask you all to refrain from answering this until Mr Gehrke does so. I have my reasons.

Might be too late now though.

Response:

—- It’s quite interesting how G alludes that Mike C’s posts are derogatory

towards US citizens.  I assume that this is supposed to drum up support for his "case". —- our envy of Mike Connor’s reputation and his considerable contribution to the world of flyfishing is obvious. —- Padishar Creel — George, do some actual research before you post so-called facts…it will save you some embarrassment later.

Response:

 George, do some actual research before you post so-called facts…it will save you some embarrassment later.

Diagnosis, Doctor?

Response:

 George, do some actual research before you post so-called facts…it will save you some embarrassment later. Diagnosis, Doctor?

—– Hmmm, as I stroke my Jungian beard, I would say the diagnosis would include a complex combination of personality and co-morbid Axis I disorders and for you laymen, please forgive the highly technical jargon, but the correct taxonomical nomenclature would be "Shit For Brains" <G. Padishar Creel — Mental health Expert of the Major Roffian Character Disorders

Response:

Hmmm, as I stroke my Jungian beard, I would say the diagnosis would include a complex combination of personality and co-morbid Axis I disorders and for you laymen, please forgive the highly technical jargon, but the correct taxonomical nomenclature would be "Shit For Brains" <G.

—— As to an interesting link that may be of some relevance! http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe07.html —— Padishar Creel "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft…and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." –  Wernher von Braun

Response:

assume we are talking about fly fishermen.  Think we have two major groups. very rich with their float boat guides and trips to Chili  and the rural low income folks  who just have always fished because it is a way of life. The folks who amaze me are the governmental workers and the educators who seem to spend half their time fishing, and half their time posting on the internet.    Relative to income –some of us thought we were in the higher bracket, but due to recent stock market now find ourselves   trying to catch and eat. Indian Joe

Response:

OK. Since you decline to answer.  For a number of years I worked for ICI ( Imperial Chemical Industries ) in England. I possess a City and Guilds of London Certificate in chemical plant operation, ( With distinction ). and I was, among other things,  chief operator of the ethoxylation facility. I am not a chemist as such, but have a good basic knowledge of chemistry.( OK perhaps a little more than just "basic"), it was essential for my job at the time. I manufactured thousands of tons of the stuff which you are mixing and selling as your own invention.    H    H     I      I    C=C     I     I    H   H Usually written    H    H     I      I    C=C    —–    Addition polymerisation.     I     I    H   H This is Ethene ( Common name Ethylene)  C2H4 The symbol above is the most common way of writing an ethylene molecule, known as a "monomer".  When polymerised this gives Polythene ( Poly Etyhlene)  which is a common thermoplastic. When combined with oxygen, it gives EO2  which is Ethylene Oxide, a highly reactive substance, which is a primary ingredient in the processes used to produce the ingredients of the stuff you sell, Gink and Xink. Any chemist, or anybody with even a faint knowledge of chemistry would recognise it immediately. How remarkably strange that the "inventor" of a substance has no idea what is in it. Just to be absolutely certain I researched the US patent office.  Here is the extract. —- United States Patent  4,184,889 Gehrke  January 22, 1980 —- Fly, line and leader sinker composition Abstract A composition for application to fishing flies, lines and leaders to cause them to sink when placed in water. —- Inventors:  Gehrke; George E. (Drawer 1204, Salida, CO 81201) Appl. No.:  909667 Filed:  May 25, 1978 Current U.S. Class: 106/267; 43/4; 516/204; 516/DIG1 Intern’l Class:  C08L 091/00 Field of Search:  106/266,267,243 —- References Cited [Referenced By] —- U.S. Patent Documents 3526596 Sep., 1970 Kress et al. 252/52. 3872048 Mar., 1975 Brown 252/52. Foreign Patent Documents 995085 Jun., 1965 GB. Primary Examiner: Morris; Theodore Attorney, Agent or Firm: Wymore; Max L. —- Claims —- What is claimed is: 1. A composition of the matter to be applied to a fly, line or leader to cause same to sink below the surface of the water when cast by a fisherman which comprises about four parts by volume of a surface active agent consisting of the non-ionic reaction products of ethylene oxide with nonyl phenol, about one part by volume of sorbitan monolaurate and about ten parts by weight of a medium grade mineral oil blended together. 2. The composition of matter of claim 1 wherein the non-ionic reaction products of ethylene oxide with nonyl phenyl has a molar ratio of ethylene oxide in the adduct, of four. 3. The composition of matter of claim 1 including a small amount of cod liver oil and a silica thickener. 4. A method of treating a line or fly to promote sinking when cast in water which comprises applying a composition thereto of about four parts by volume of a surface active agent consisting of the non-ionic reaction products of ethylene oxide with nonyl phenol and mixing about one part therewith of sorbitan monolaurate to prevent the formation of an immersible gell between the reaction products and the water. —- Description —- One of the problems confronting the avid fly fisherman is the ability of having a fly sink fast after it is cast into the water. One solution has been to use split shot on the leader or by the use of weighted flies; however, the weighted flies do not move in a natural manner and the use of split shot on the leader makes for difficult, inaccurate and sometimes, unsafe casting. While some fly fishermen have used a sinking liquid applied to the leader, this liquid will not stay on the leader and needs to be reapplied practically for each and every cast. The benefits and advantages of the present invention are achieved by the use of a composition of matter formulated to provide ease of application and a composition that will stay on a fly and cause it to sink rapidly for many, many successive casts and wherein the fly sinks down low to where the fish are. The sinker compound works so well and lasts such a very long time that in most instances, there is no need to use split shot or weighted flies. The composition is also an excellent leader sink and makes sinking lines sink even faster. It is a primary object of this invention to provide a fly, line and leader sinker composition that is easy to use, wipes off fingers easily, provides rapid sinking to lines, leaders and flies and is retained thereon for a multitude of successive casts. Another object of the invention is to provide a sinking composition that does not interfere with the natural movement of flies and will permit safe and accurate casting. A still further object of the present invention is to provide a sinking composition many times better than previously available compositions and avoids the use of a streamer or nymph to achieve sink characteristics. Additional benefits and advantages of the present invention become apparent upon the reading of the description of the preferred embodiment. The fly, line and leader sinker composition according to this invention consists of about four parts by volume of Surfonic N-40 surface active agent, about one part by volume of Span 20 and about ten parts by weight of a mineral oil. The composition may also contain a small amount of cod liver oil for scent purposes, a small amount of mineral oil and a small amount of Aerosil 200 as a thickening agent. These ingredients are mixed together to form a highly viscous liquid product. The Surfonic N-40 is manufactured by Jefferson Chemical Company, Inc. and is available from VanWaters & Rogers, division of Univar, 4300 Holly St., Denver, Col. 80216. Surfonic N-40 surface active agent is a non-ionic reaction product of ethylene oxide with nonyl phenol. The products are designated by a number following the letter "N". The number is a ten-fold multiple of the molar ratio of ethylene oxide in the adduct. The surface active properties result from the combination of the hydrophilic polyoxyethylene chain and the hydrophobic nonyl phenol. These groups combine to form a molecule which "crosses" the oil-water interface and breaks down the surface tension so as to promote a dispersion. Surfonic N-40 is water-insoluble, oil-soluble. When the Surfonic N-40 alone contacts water, the water acts with the Surfonic N-40 to produce an immiscible gel. A surfactant Span 20 is added to the Surfonic N-40 and when mixed therewith, prevents hydration of the Surfonic N-40 from producing an immiscible gel. Span 20 is a trademark of ICI Americas, Inc., Specialty Chemicals Division, Wilmington, Del. 19897 and is used to identify a non-ionic surfactant of sorbitan monolaurate. The composition may also include about ten parts by weight of a medium grade mineral oil and a small amount of a thickness such as silica known by the trade name Aerosil 200 a product of Degussa Corp., Route 46 at Hollister Rd., P.O. Box 2004, Teterboro, N.J. 07608. The resulting composition is a thick amber liquid that can be placed on the figures and rubbed into a fly, line or leader. When a fly, line or leader treated with the composition of this invention is cast into water, the fly, line and/or leader will sink immediately and will avoid any tendency of floating on top of the water. The line, fly and/or leader so treated can be cast and re-cast numerous times without the necessity of renewing the sinker composition. The present invention may be embodied in other specific forms without departing from the spirit or essential characteristics thereof. The presently disclosed embodiment is, therefore, to be considered in all respects as illustrative and not restrictive, the scope of the invention being indicated by the appended claims rather than by the foregoing description, and all changes which come within the meaning and range of equivalency of the claims are, therefore, intended to be embraced therein. * * * * * —- END OF COPY. What this basically means is, you managed to "bamboo"zle and bullshit the US Patent Office into granting you a patent on a soap mixture.  With Silica, mineral oil, etc ( see above) added.  You have been filling this mixture into little bottles, and selling it to the unsuspecting angling public for years. Do you actually add "scent" ?  Most unsporting. Whatever, a drop of any reasonable detergent works better, and has no mineral oil or other crap in it. Any chemist would be laughing himself sick at all this. If you are a chemist, then I am the Archangel Michael. Would you like an independent analysis of Gink as well?  No trouble I assure you. MC

Response:

Germany used 88mm main guns on its tank Georgie.No reference to an 80mm gun. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where do you get all this crap from ? Snipped a ton of ignorant guessing about many things you know NOTHING of. .  Americans were the boys in W.W.II that would take abandoned German Tanks, and get them running with a pair of pliers and bailing wire.  Then they would turn that 80 MM cannon around and pepper those Nazi’s asses.

Response:

H    H I      I C=C       What is it?  What can you make of it, and how? I     I H   H MC

Response:

Germany used 88mm main guns on its tank Georgie.No reference to an 80mm gun.

It’s quite interesting how G alludes that Mike C’s posts are derogatory towards US citizens.  I assume that this is supposed to drum up support for his "case".

Response:

You have the manners of a pig, the social skills of an alley cat, the general knowledge of a house brick, literally stink of ignorance So don’t tell us we don’t know anything about engines, wrist pin.

ROFF Backyard Wrestling !  It’s a hoot ! I’m waiting for Chyna to come out and beat both of you over the head with a folding metal chair ! Your pal, — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Don Thompson writes: Germany used 88mm main guns on its tank Georgie.No reference to an 80mm gun.

Uh, Don, uh, you will confuse him with facts.  This is the guy that flew F-100s in Korea and shot down MiG-19s a year before they came out, and a year after the war ended.  Besides, by his own words, he tells us he has been tying flies for "four score years".  The sucker is over 100 years old, apparently. BTW, I have seen and fished with Mike Connor tied flies.  They are superb examples of the art, and he gave them freely without me asking, without me supporting him, without me endorsing anything.  Of course he hasn’t been tying for 80 something years like George……. I’ve also cast a rod designed and built by Mike.  I own (moment of insanity, I know) a rod built by Gehrke.  There is no comparison to the way Mike’s rod casts to the tomato stake that George made.  If only I had pulled a Vern at the The Pirate and Bottom Dweller

Response:

I think it’s nothing This is something     H   H      l     l H-C=C-H      l     l     H   H This is something else which is supposed to destroy cells in some part of your body.  I forget which part. This is something better.     H   H      l     l H-C=C-OH      l     l     H   H The chemistry may explain why english beer is bad. %^) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – H    H I      I C=C       What is it?  What can you make of it, and how? I     I H   H MC

Response:

I would ask you all to refrain from answering this until Mr Gehrke does so. I have my reasons. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think it’s nothing This is something

Response:

That ain’t shit, look at this:                 S                     S                         S                             S                                 S                                 S                             S                         S                     S                 S

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think it’s nothing This is something     H   H      l     l H-C=C-H      l     l     H   H This is something else which is supposed to destroy cells in some part of your body.  I forget which part. This is something better.     H   H      l     l H-C=C-OH      l     l     H   H The chemistry may explain why english beer is bad. %^) H    H I      I C=C       What is it?  What can you make of it, and how? I     I H   H MC

Response:

Now that’s a post for the ages, if I ever saw one.  Thanks for warmin’ my heart this morn Mike.  I am headed out to Wilson Creek in an hour to fish with another fine ROFFian, Wally Boy.  Mike you deserve a beer basket for this one.  If only I were so damned articulate! Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where do you get all this crap from ?   Do you hear voices or something? Did some nutcase of your acquaintance and similar persuasion, mistake you for a tree, and hammer a nail in your head?   Just what the hell is the matter with you? To date we have been treated to various spectacle as a direct result of your general ignorance and incompetence. You are a chemist who does not know the first thing about even elementary chemistry, you are a pilot who has flown non-existent planes, you are an engineer who knows nothing of the by-products of internal combustion engines, an environmentalist who uses the most wasteful possible modes of transport,  you are an expert at fly-tying, although apparently unaware of how, or even if, many materials may be obtained and used, playwriting, poetry, hunting, casting and rod-building, we wont go into that, etc etc etc . And of course you are a genius ! Even the thought of somebody like you flying around in something as complex as an aeroplane gives me the shudders, even if you were only a passenger. You have the manners of a pig, the social skills of an alley cat, the general knowledge of a house brick, literally stink of ignorance and prejudice in a host of forms, and for some weird and probably completely unknowable reason, you think you are a gentleman as well. Your only apparent genius is for making nonsensical, grammatically and otherwise, barely intelligible statements,  which invariably turn out to have virtually no foundation whatsoever. Absolutely amazing. Is there not at least some faint feeble aspect of your character which is not mean, ignorant, and nasty? Your proclamations, as far as they are decipherable, invariably bear incontrovertible witness to your ignorance. Just for your information, my phone bill is in excess of 250$ per month. Even though I have reduced my internet activities considerably. I only have a small business which I now operate completely single-handed.  It is successful, as my products and work are beyond reproach, I have not had a single customer return in all the years I have been self-employed. Not even the stuff I send  per UPS is faulted. A fact that I am extremely proud of. Doubtless UPS as well.  I work long hours at difficult and physically and mentally demanding work, and then I come on here for a bit of enjoyment and have to listen to loonies like you, who have probably never done a decent days work in their entire lives, have no discernible morals, and earn their money selling a load of awful shit, most of which they do not even understand, making various statements as if they had been handed down on tablets of stone. Perhaps I should start building rods or manufacturing floatant?   If some of the competition is indeed as lousy as its reputation suggests, then I ought to make a mint. Before you start spouting bullshit, at least make an attempt, no matter how feeble, to get some information on the subject first. What I earn is none of your business. But rest assured, I earn it. MC "The gaga continues".

Response:

… You have the manners of a pig, the social skills of an alley cat, the general knowledge of a house brick, literally stink of ignorance and prejudice in a host of forms, and for some weird and probably completely unknowable reason, you think you are a gentleman as well. Your only apparent genius is for making nonsensical, grammatically and otherwise, barely intelligible statements,  which invariably turn out to have virtually no foundation whatsoever. …

Priceless. A tad harsh on pigs and alley cats not to mention downright insulting to bricks but a ROFF Hall of Fame post nonetheless. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Where do you get all this crap from ?  

Snipped a ton of ignorant guessing about many things you know NOTHING of. Look Connor, you old, wrong opinionated fool.  My rates for my Internet Service is $199.00 for a full year.  The DEDICATED phone line is $25.95 a month.  This is only $322.40 for a full year.  Amount of hours I use each month regarding Internet business exceeds 80 hours a month, which equates to about .32 Cents AN HOUR!  So what is your problem, moron? Don’t you believe these rates, you bullshit artist? Next, do you want me to send you a video tape of me flying my airplane? How about a grand tour of my chemistry lab?  Who gives a shit what YOU think?  Incidentally, there is nothing I don’t know about an internal combustion engine.  American kids, cut their teeth on them since puberty.  Americans were the boys in W.W.II that would take abandoned German Tanks, and get them running with a pair of pliers and bailing wire.  Then they would turn that 80 MM cannon around and pepper those Nazi’s asses. So don’t tell us we don’t know anything about engines, wrist pin. I bet if I said belly button, you would write a poem or essay on it for Roff? Okay, "Billy Button!" Connor, I know more about fly tying in my little finger then what you will know in the next fifty years.  I will say (for the record) you have a NICE signature as a fly tier, but what does the rest of your concerns amount too?  A waste of our valuable time because it proves nothing regarding what you know about us in America. I never, in all my life, saw anyone like you.  You jump on every subject,  you offer up endless amounts of crap we all already know about and you always seem to be looking for a pat on the head. Okay.  I can do that.   Nice Connor.  Nice Connor.  Good boy, Connor. Look?  Let me put it this way.  Pick one subject you don’t know anything about or ask me one question you don’t know the answer too, and I’ll teach you, okay? Or don’t you get the point?

Response:

Look?  Let me put it this way.  Pick one subject you don’t know anything about or ask me one question you don’t know the answer too, and I’ll teach you, okay? Or don’t you get the point?

Here’s a topic for you George. It should be easy for you since you seem to know so much about the internet. Describe how to get non-blocking routing through a toriodal interconnect fabric of any dimension. Paul

Response:

Exceeds $50,000 a year.  So what is the problem with paying $300 a year or

less for all the Internet Phone Time one would care to use, again, FOR A FULL YEAR without limits on amount of time. How cheap can you get? — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com "the saga continues"

Where do you get all this crap from ?   Do you hear voices or something? Did some nutcase of your acquaintance and similar persuasion, mistake you for a tree, and hammer a nail in your head?   Just what the hell is the matter with you? To date we have been treated to various spectacle as a direct result of your general ignorance and incompetence. You are a chemist who does not know the first thing about even elementary chemistry, you are a pilot who has flown non-existent planes, you are an engineer who knows nothing of the by-products of internal combustion engines, an environmentalist who uses the most wasteful possible modes of transport,  you are an expert at fly-tying, although apparently unaware of how, or even if, many materials may be obtained and used, playwriting, poetry, hunting, casting and rod-building, we wont go into that, etc etc etc . And of course you are a genius ! Even the thought of somebody like you flying around in something as complex as an aeroplane gives me the shudders, even if you were only a passenger. You have the manners of a pig, the social skills of an alley cat, the general knowledge of a house brick, literally stink of ignorance and prejudice in a host of forms, and for some weird and probably completely unknowable reason, you think you are a gentleman as well. Your only apparent genius is for making nonsensical, grammatically and otherwise, barely intelligible statements,  which invariably turn out to have virtually no foundation whatsoever. Absolutely amazing. Is there not at least some faint feeble aspect of your character which is not mean, ignorant, and nasty? Your proclamations, as far as they are decipherable, invariably bear incontrovertible witness to your ignorance. Just for your information, my phone bill is in excess of 250$ per month. Even though I have reduced my internet activities considerably. I only have a small business which I now operate completely single-handed.  It is successful, as my products and work are beyond reproach, I have not had a single customer return in all the years I have been self-employed. Not even the stuff I send  per UPS is faulted. A fact that I am extremely proud of. Doubtless UPS as well.  I work long hours at difficult and physically and mentally demanding work, and then I come on here for a bit of enjoyment and have to listen to loonies like you, who have probably never done a decent days work in their entire lives, have no discernible morals, and earn their money selling a load of awful shit, most of which they do not even understand, making various statements as if they had been handed down on tablets of stone. Perhaps I should start building rods or manufacturing floatant?   If some of the competition is indeed as lousy as its reputation suggests, then I ought to make a mint. Before you start spouting bullshit, at least make an attempt, no matter how feeble, to get some information on the subject first. What I earn is none of your business. But rest assured, I earn it. MC "The gaga continues".

Response:

Question:

Dear All, Here I am working at the tool corral cash register at Home Depot a few months ago, getting minimum wage filling in for a person on lunch. I normally work in the paint department, paint is what I know about. There is this guy rushing around like a bull in a china shop with his arms overloaded with breakable objects, he comes up to the counter to ask a question about something on the floor. I suggest he unload his goods for everyone’s convenience. I told him would try to help him, but that this wasn’t my department and I was just filling in for someone on lunch. He was looking at some table thingie with what looked like a motor mounted underneath of it. He asked if we had any more, I checked the computer, it said we didn’t, but the computer isn’t always correct, so I checked the shelf as well. He seemed annoyed that this was the only one we had. I suggested he could buy the floor model, he pointed out that this unit had actual dust on it and it might have to be cleaned and wanted a discount. It didn’t have manuals either, but I told him we would take his name and make sure he was sent some, he didn’t want to hear that, he was just looking to chisel the price down. I called a manager and asked what the policy was on floor models, I was told we take a standard 10% off, which is basically selling the tool at cost. This guy was a little steamy already, but when I told him the discount would be 10%, he lost it, I truly thought he was about to go postal on me. With arms flailing, he knocks stuff off the counter and is muttering something about how he is single handily responsible for the success of Home Depot with the millions in business he has brought to the chain and goes on and on about how he will never be shopping here again. I am trying not to shake my head while this display is going on, and I carelessly utter under my breath, "what an asshole". Little did I know, this guy has his Whisper 2000 cranked to maximum amplification. Big mistake. Now I am almost 6 foot, but my build is what I politely call slight, I am only 150 pounds soaking wet. This ape is 6′5"+ and twice my weight, he leans over the counter right in my face and spraying as he yells, he dares me to repeat what I just said. I am pushing the emergency security button as hard and as fast I can thinking I have about 3 seconds to live before this guy squishes me like a bug. I of course don’t repeat what I said, I cannot believe he even heard it in the first place. Before Dino and Rocko get to the Coral, this guy has stormed out and I am about to quit my job and go live in Alaska. I think this is what they mean by roid rage. A few weeks later, I am called into the carpet on this matter. Apparently this guy has been emailing everyone about this incident and is even trying to rally Ralph Nader to his aid. Ralph said he hates Home Depot, but this guy was to radical for even him. I explain the incident, including the ‘asshole’ remark. I could see the store manager was not to upset with me and he said he might have said worse to the guy, PR be dammed, some people we just don’t need in the store. The store manager also said that the head office has his letters framed and get a chuckle out of them every time they read them. Nothing bad came of it, except that I hear he is still writing congress trying to get a bill passed that when things don’t go your way, you get 10% back on all previous purchases. Don’t worry, I don’t get it either. Oh well, back to the paint department… Thanks, David. May you live in Interesting Times – Ancient Chinese Curse. Newbies, please read this newsgroups FAQ. rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/ Archives http://x29.deja.com/home_ps.shtml crowbar FAQ http://www.concentric.net/~Odeen/oldtools/crowbar.shtml

Response:

BWAH HAH HAH!!! Oh man, I gotta go, I think just wet myself!!! BWAHHHHH HAH HAHHH!!!! Oh Man, Oh GOD, here comes the floor!!!!! Rob — visit our web siite: http://www.randc.bizhosting.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear All, Here I am working at the tool corral cash register at Home Depot a few months ago, getting minimum wage filling in for a person on lunch. I normally work in the paint department, paint is what I know about. There is this guy rushing around like a bull in a china shop with his arms overloaded with breakable objects, he comes up to the counter to ask a question about something on the floor. I suggest he unload his goods for everyone’s convenience. I told him would try to help him, but that this wasn’t my department and I was just filling in for someone on lunch. He was looking at some table thingie with what looked like a motor mounted underneath of it. He asked if we had any more, I checked the computer, it said we didn’t, but the computer isn’t always correct, so I checked the shelf as well. He seemed annoyed that this was the only one we had. I suggested he could buy the floor model, he pointed out that this unit had actual dust on it and it might have to be cleaned and wanted a discount. It didn’t have manuals either, but I told him we would take his name and make sure he was sent some, he didn’t want to hear that, he was just looking to chisel the price down. I called a manager and asked what the policy was on floor models, I was told we take a standard 10% off, which is basically selling the tool at cost. This guy was a little steamy already, but when I told him the discount would be 10%, he lost it, I truly thought he was about to go postal on me. With arms flailing, he knocks stuff off the counter and is muttering something about how he is single handily responsible for the success of Home Depot with the millions in business he has brought to the chain and goes on and on about how he will never be shopping here again. I am trying not to shake my head while this display is going on, and I carelessly utter under my breath, "what an asshole". Little did I know, this guy has his Whisper 2000 cranked to maximum amplification. Big mistake. Now I am almost 6 foot, but my build is what I politely call slight, I am only 150 pounds soaking wet. This ape is 6′5"+ and twice my weight, he leans over the counter right in my face and spraying as he yells, he dares me to repeat what I just said. I am pushing the emergency security button as hard and as fast I can thinking I have about 3 seconds to live before this guy squishes me like a bug. I of course don’t repeat what I said, I cannot believe he even heard it in the first place. Before Dino and Rocko get to the Coral, this guy has stormed out and I am about to quit my job and go live in Alaska. I think this is what they mean by roid rage. A few weeks later, I am called into the carpet on this matter. Apparently this guy has been emailing everyone about this incident and is even trying to rally Ralph Nader to his aid. Ralph said he hates Home Depot, but this guy was to radical for even him. I explain the incident, including the ‘asshole’ remark. I could see the store manager was not to upset with me and he said he might have said worse to the guy, PR be dammed, some people we just don’t need in the store. The store manager also said that the head office has his letters framed and get a chuckle out of them every time they read them. Nothing bad came of it, except that I hear he is still writing congress trying to get a bill passed that when things don’t go your way, you get 10% back on all previous purchases. Don’t worry, I don’t get it either. Oh well, back to the paint department… Thanks, David. May you live in Interesting Times – Ancient Chinese Curse. Newbies, please read this newsgroups FAQ. rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/ Archives http://x29.deja.com/home_ps.shtml crowbar FAQ http://www.concentric.net/~Odeen/oldtools/crowbar.shtml

Response:

He is what he is! I will discuss a problem that anyone has with me but I will not put up with screaming idiots! — Jim Ferrill The Ellaville Bed Co. http://www.sowega.net/~jimkim/ rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/ Archives http://x29.deja.com/home_ps.shtml – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear All, Here I am working at the tool corral cash register at Home Depot a few months ago, getting minimum wage filling in for a person on lunch. I normally work in the paint department, paint is what I know about. There is this guy rushing around like a bull in a china shop with his arms overloaded with breakable objects, he comes up to the counter to ask a question about something on the floor. I suggest he unload his goods for everyone’s convenience. I told him would try to help him, but that this wasn’t my department and I was just filling in for someone on lunch. He was looking at some table thingie with what looked like a motor mounted underneath of it. He asked if we had any more, I checked the computer, it said we didn’t, but the computer isn’t always correct, so I checked the shelf as well. He seemed annoyed that this was the only one we had. I suggested he could buy the floor model, he pointed out that this unit had actual dust on it and it might have to be cleaned and wanted a discount. It didn’t have manuals either, but I told him we would take his name and make sure he was sent some, he didn’t want to hear that, he was just looking to chisel the price down. I called a manager and asked what the policy was on floor models, I was told we take a standard 10% off, which is basically selling the tool at cost. This guy was a little steamy already, but when I told him the discount would be 10%, he lost it, I truly thought he was about to go postal on me. With arms flailing, he knocks stuff off the counter and is muttering something about how he is single handily responsible for the success of Home Depot with the millions in business he has brought to the chain and goes on and on about how he will never be shopping here again. I am trying not to shake my head while this display is going on, and I carelessly utter under my breath, "what an asshole". Little did I know, this guy has his Whisper 2000 cranked to maximum amplification. Big mistake. Now I am almost 6 foot, but my build is what I politely call slight, I am only 150 pounds soaking wet. This ape is 6′5"+ and twice my weight, he leans over the counter right in my face and spraying as he yells, he dares me to repeat what I just said. I am pushing the emergency security button as hard and as fast I can thinking I have about 3 seconds to live before this guy squishes me like a bug. I of course don’t repeat what I said, I cannot believe he even heard it in the first place. Before Dino and Rocko get to the Coral, this guy has stormed out and I am about to quit my job and go live in Alaska. I think this is what they mean by roid rage. A few weeks later, I am called into the carpet on this matter. Apparently this guy has been emailing everyone about this incident and is even trying to rally Ralph Nader to his aid. Ralph said he hates Home Depot, but this guy was to radical for even him. I explain the incident, including the ‘asshole’ remark. I could see the store manager was not to upset with me and he said he might have said worse to the guy, PR be dammed, some people we just don’t need in the store. The store manager also said that the head office has his letters framed and get a chuckle out of them every time they read them. Nothing bad came of it, except that I hear he is still writing congress trying to get a bill passed that when things don’t go your way, you get 10% back on all previous purchases. Don’t worry, I don’t get it either. Oh well, back to the paint department… Thanks, David. May you live in Interesting Times – Ancient Chinese Curse. Newbies, please read this newsgroups FAQ. rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/ Archives http://x29.deja.com/home_ps.shtml crowbar FAQ http://www.concentric.net/~Odeen/oldtools/crowbar.shtml

Response:

Wow!  Everyone once in a while these HD/Lowes posts get pretty darn entertaining!  LOL Mike

Response:

David, May I introduce Matthew J. Prusik Jr.    He is whining on the post HD HORROR STORIES!!! about you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear All, Here I am working at the tool corral cash register at Home Depot a few months ago, getting minimum wage filling in for a person on lunch. I normally work in the paint department, paint is what I know about. There is this guy rushing around like a bull in a china shop with his arms overloaded with breakable objects, he comes up to the counter to ask a question about something on the floor. I suggest he unload his goods for everyone’s convenience. I told him would try to help him, but that this wasn’t my department and I was just filling in for someone on lunch. He was looking at some table thingie with what looked like a motor mounted underneath of it. He asked if we had any more, I checked the computer, it said we didn’t, but the computer isn’t always correct, so I checked the shelf as well. He seemed annoyed that this was the only one we had. I suggested he could buy the floor model, he pointed out that this unit had actual dust on it and it might have to be cleaned and wanted a discount. It didn’t have manuals either, but I told him we would take his name and make sure he was sent some, he didn’t want to hear that, he was just looking to chisel the price down. I called a manager and asked what the policy was on floor models, I was told we take a standard 10% off, which is basically selling the tool at cost. This guy was a little steamy already, but when I told him the discount would be 10%, he lost it, I truly thought he was about to go postal on me. With arms flailing, he knocks stuff off the counter and is muttering something about how he is single handily responsible for the success of Home Depot with the millions in business he has brought to the chain and goes on and on about how he will never be shopping here again. I am trying not to shake my head while this display is going on, and I carelessly utter under my breath, "what an asshole". Little did I know, this guy has his Whisper 2000 cranked to maximum amplification. Big mistake. Now I am almost 6 foot, but my build is what I politely call slight, I am only 150 pounds soaking wet. This ape is 6′5"+ and twice my weight, he leans over the counter right in my face and spraying as he yells, he dares me to repeat what I just said. I am pushing the emergency security button as hard and as fast I can thinking I have about 3 seconds to live before this guy squishes me like a bug. I of course don’t repeat what I said, I cannot believe he even heard it in the first place. Before Dino and Rocko get to the Coral, this guy has stormed out and I am about to quit my job and go live in Alaska. I think this is what they mean by roid rage. A few weeks later, I am called into the carpet on this matter. Apparently this guy has been emailing everyone about this incident and is even trying to rally Ralph Nader to his aid. Ralph said he hates Home Depot, but this guy was to radical for even him. I explain the incident, including the ‘asshole’ remark. I could see the store manager was not to upset with me and he said he might have said worse to the guy, PR be dammed, some people we just don’t need in the store. The store manager also said that the head office has his letters framed and get a chuckle out of them every time they read them. Nothing bad came of it, except that I hear he is still writing congress trying to get a bill passed that when things don’t go your way, you get 10% back on all previous purchases. Don’t worry, I don’t get it either. Oh well, back to the paint department… Thanks, David. May you live in Interesting Times – Ancient Chinese Curse. Newbies, please read this newsgroups FAQ. rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/ Archives http://x29.deja.com/home_ps.shtml crowbar FAQ http://www.concentric.net/~Odeen/oldtools/crowbar.shtml

Response:

Well, the very least you could have done was to offer the guy 50 bucks to get the eyesore out of the store for you. Then you could pushed bamboo wedges up under your finger nails by way of atonement. Then to show that you were really sincere, maybe have yourself drawn and quarter….. of course you might have found something painful to do to yourself in between. I think it’s shameful, the way you skinny little guys gotta keep on picking Enjoyed it immensely, David 8^). — Jim Warman http://www.telusplanet.net/public/mechanic – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear All, Here I am working at the tool corral cash register at Home Depot a few months ago, getting minimum wage filling in for a person on lunch. I normally work in the paint department, paint is what I know about.

Response:

Now that you and the human-hemroid have each others names…  maybe you can get together and have tea or something. Nex time you stuck in tools and a freaker goes nuts on you…  defend yourseldf with a plunge-router…  will make for a better story…

Response:

Dear All, Here I am working at the tool corral cash register at Home Depot a few months ago, getting minimum wage filling in for a person on lunch. I normally work in the paint department, paint is what I know about. There is this guy rushing around like a bull in a china shop with his arms overloaded with breakable objects, he comes up to the counter to ask a question about something on the floor.  <snip snip

Better you than me, David.  I would have grabbed the closest tool and told him those were his nuts on the floor!  Oh well, glad you liked your visit from Sigh!  <g — Jim Mc Namara Future Collectibles www.futurecollectibles.com

Response:

Bet you like the paint department better now……got any deals???? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear All, Here I am working at the tool corral cash register at Home Depot a few months ago, getting minimum wage filling in for a person on lunch. I normally work in the paint department, paint is what I know about. There is this guy rushing around like a bull in a china shop with his arms overloaded with breakable objects, he comes up to the counter to ask a question about something on the floor. I suggest he unload his goods for everyone’s convenience. I told him would try to help him, but that this wasn’t my department and I was just filling in for someone on lunch. He was looking at some table thingie with what looked like a motor mounted underneath of it. He asked if we had any more, I checked the computer, it said we didn’t, but the computer isn’t always correct, so I checked the shelf as well. He seemed annoyed that this was the only one we had. I suggested he could buy the floor model, he pointed out that this unit had actual dust on it and it might have to be cleaned and wanted a discount. It didn’t have manuals either, but I told him we would take his name and make sure he was sent some, he didn’t want to hear that, he was just looking to chisel the price down. I called a manager and asked what the policy was on floor models, I was told we take a standard 10% off, which is basically selling the tool at cost. This guy was a little steamy already, but when I told him the discount would be 10%, he lost it, I truly thought he was about to go postal on me. With arms flailing, he knocks stuff off the counter and is muttering something about how he is single handily responsible for the success of Home Depot with the millions in business he has brought to the chain and goes on and on about how he will never be shopping here again. I am trying not to shake my head while this display is going on, and I carelessly utter under my breath, "what an asshole". Little did I know, this guy has his Whisper 2000 cranked to maximum amplification. Big mistake. Now I am almost 6 foot, but my build is what I politely call slight, I am only 150 pounds soaking wet. This ape is 6′5"+ and twice my weight, he leans over the counter right in my face and spraying as he yells, he dares me to repeat what I just said. I am pushing the emergency security button as hard and as fast I can thinking I have about 3 seconds to live before this guy squishes me like a bug. I of course don’t repeat what I said, I cannot believe he even heard it in the first place. Before Dino and Rocko get to the Coral, this guy has stormed out and I am about to quit my job and go live in Alaska. I think this is what they mean by roid rage. A few weeks later, I am called into the carpet on this matter. Apparently this guy has been emailing everyone about this incident and is even trying to rally Ralph Nader to his aid. Ralph said he hates Home Depot, but this guy was to radical for even him. I explain the incident, including the ‘asshole’ remark. I could see the store manager was not to upset with me and he said he might have said worse to the guy, PR be dammed, some people we just don’t need in the store. The store manager also said that the head office has his letters framed and get a chuckle out of them every time they read them. Nothing bad came of it, except that I hear he is still writing congress trying to get a bill passed that when things don’t go your way, you get 10% back on all previous purchases. Don’t worry, I don’t get it either. Oh well, back to the paint department… Thanks, David. May you live in Interesting Times – Ancient Chinese Curse. Newbies, please read this newsgroups FAQ. rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/ Archives http://x29.deja.com/home_ps.shtml crowbar FAQ http://www.concentric.net/~Odeen/oldtools/crowbar.shtml

Response:

Nov. 5, 2000 The Home Depot 100 Borg Lane Anyplace, USA  12345 Dear Sirs: I would like to complain about the service I got while trying to purchase some paint at one of your stores today. I was patiently waiting in line to buy some paint.  Finally it was my turn, but just as I was ready to tell the gentleman what I needed, he was called away to work in the tool department.  A gentleman from the electrical department came to assist me.  He explained that when somebody goes to lunch, everybody just rotates into the next department to the left.  I didn’t think this made much sense but Home Depot seems to be a large company so they must know what they’re doing. At any rate, I asked him for 2 gallons of a pale pink for my daughters room. He then explained that he is from the electrical department and only deals in white, black and green.  I told him that I really wasn’t interested in any of those colors but wanted chip number 115 off of card P-2430.  He once again told me he would really like to help but as he was bound by law to only deal in white, black and green.  He excused himself to help a nice young lady who wanted some sky blue paint.  He explained that while he couldn’t sell her the blue, she had her choice of green,  which he said was very "earthy"; black, which he was neutral about; or white, which is the hot color this season. I grew disgusted with the whole situation when suddenly a huge ruckus erupted in the tool department.  I decided that enough was enough and started to leave the store.  I kept hearing a store employee tell some guy what an a-hole he was.  I looked at the two of them.  The employee was a slim guy with glasses in his mid thirties.  He had that swarthy look about him like he was from the Middle-East or Canada or one of those exotic locales you only read about.  The other guy was about 6′ 4 and the same slim build but he had a gut on him that would put any dedicated beer drinker to shame.  With the gut, he must have gone 300 lbs or better. Suddenly Mr. Gut turns around and storms out of the building.  I guess he didn’t see me because as he turned around to shout something back to the clerk, his gut hit me and knocked me into a display of Black and Decker power screwdrivers.  I hit the ground and all the screwdrivers fell on me. By the time I looked up, he was gone.  Just as I was getting to my feet, two of your other employees named Dino and Rocko knocked me back to the floor while giving chase to Mr. Gut.  Once again I was getting to my feet when Dino and Rocko came back in.  They were muttering about not catching the guy because he jumped into a stretch limo Ford F-350 (short bed).  They were impressed that the guy has so much money as to be able to afford one of those. I got out to my car, realized I left my keys and the paint counter and then had to go back in to get them.  The slim guy was back at the paint counter muttering something about the mean winter temperature in Alaska and generally shooting daggers at anybody who looked at him. Just then a voice came over the loud speaker that it was time for another lunch switch.  As I left, I heard the guy from Plumbing go to the Millwork department and try to explain to some poor guy that he didn’t know what a scarf joint was but if he wanted to join two pieces of baseboard, all he had to do was put male and female threads on the two ends and everything would be right as rain. In the future, I will be shopping at Builders Square or HomeQuarters.  There always seems to be a parking spot available… — Dolmen Productions http://members.home.net/dolmen.prod – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear All, Here I am working at the tool corral cash register at Home Depot a few months ago, getting minimum wage filling in for a person on lunch. I normally work in the paint department, paint is what I know about. There is this guy rushing around like a bull in a china shop with his arms overloaded with breakable objects, he comes up to the counter to ask a question about something on the floor. I suggest he unload his goods for everyone’s convenience. I told him would try to help him, but that this wasn’t my department and I was just filling in for someone on lunch. He was looking at some table thingie with what looked like a motor mounted underneath of it. He asked if we had any more, I checked the computer, it said we didn’t, but the computer isn’t always correct, so I checked the shelf as well. He seemed annoyed that this was the only one we had. I suggested he could buy the floor model, he pointed out that this unit had actual dust on it and it might have to be cleaned and wanted a discount. It didn’t have manuals either, but I told him we would take his name and make sure he was sent some, he didn’t want to hear that, he was just looking to chisel the price down. I called a manager and asked what the policy was on floor models, I was told we take a standard 10% off, which is basically selling the tool at cost. This guy was a little steamy already, but when I told him the discount would be 10%, he lost it, I truly thought he was about to go postal on me. With arms flailing, he knocks stuff off the counter and is muttering something about how he is single handily responsible for the success of Home Depot with the millions in business he has brought to the chain and goes on and on about how he will never be shopping here again. I am trying not to shake my head while this display is going on, and I carelessly utter under my breath, "what an asshole". Little did I know, this guy has his Whisper 2000 cranked to maximum amplification. Big mistake. Now I am almost 6 foot, but my build is what I politely call slight, I am only 150 pounds soaking wet. This ape is 6′5"+ and twice my weight, he leans over the counter right in my face and spraying as he yells, he dares me to repeat what I just said. I am pushing the emergency security button as hard and as fast I can thinking I have about 3 seconds to live before this guy squishes me like a bug. I of course don’t repeat what I said, I cannot believe he even heard it in the first place. Before Dino and Rocko get to the Coral, this guy has stormed out and I am about to quit my job and go live in Alaska. I think this is what they mean by roid rage. A few weeks later, I am called into the carpet on this matter. Apparently this guy has been emailing everyone about this incident and is even trying to rally Ralph Nader to his aid. Ralph said he hates Home Depot, but this guy was to radical for even him. I explain the incident, including the ‘asshole’ remark. I could see the store manager was not to upset with me and he said he might have said worse to the guy, PR be dammed, some people we just don’t need in the store. The store manager also said that the head office has his letters framed and get a chuckle out of them every time they read them. Nothing bad came of it, except that I hear he is still writing congress trying to get a bill passed that when things don’t go your way, you get 10% back on all previous purchases. Don’t worry, I don’t get it either. Oh well, back to the paint department… Thanks, David. May you live in Interesting Times – Ancient Chinese Curse. Newbies, please read this newsgroups FAQ. rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/ Archives http://x29.deja.com/home_ps.shtml crowbar FAQ http://www.concentric.net/~Odeen/oldtools/crowbar.shtml

Response:

LOL, Darn it you made me loose my soda all over my keyboard.  I guess you owe me a rebate on something or other Dear All,

Humor snipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A few weeks later, I am called into the carpet on this matter. Apparently this guy has been emailing everyone about this incident and

Response:

Great Add-on. — Sincerely, Sy Kaplan Black Sheep Woodworks North Chittenden, Vermont http://www.blacksheepwoodworks.com

Response:

David, Do you have good health insurance up there in Canada?  :-)  Thanks for the belly laughs. — Sincerely, Sy Kaplan Black Sheep Woodworks North Chittenden, Vermont http://www.blacksheepwoodworks.com

Response:

Dear Steve, I was going to ask if that was you that Mr. Gut knocked down, I thought for sure I recognised the scarred hand from ABPF, but it was time to move to the left again, so I didn’t get a chance to chat. Mr. Gut is lucky this took place in New Jersey and not Texas. The HD employees down there are all issued Glock 9mm’s and part of the in-house training program involves close range marksmanship. Next time you are in a Texas HD, look for a bulge in the front of those fashionable back supports we are all issued. From re-reading the employee manuals addendum for Texican employees on rules of engagement and reasonable use of force, I would have been justified in winging him in the kneecap. Might have got me employee of the Month… Thanks, David. May you live in Interesting Times – Ancient Chinese Curse. Newbies, please read this newsgroups FAQ. rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/ Archives http://x29.deja.com/home_ps.shtml crowbar FAQ http://www.concentric.net/~Odeen/oldtools/crowbar.shtml

Response:

Hahahahhhahahahhh ROTFLMAO!!

Response:

you guys are killin me  lol

Response:

David,   Thanks for this.  I am LMAO at 7:30 am on a Monday morning, in an otherwise quiet office.  I know people think I’m strange now.  I read, and posted to the other thread/rant.  I’m glad I took the time to read this one too. P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear All, Here I am working at the tool corral cash register at Home Depot a few months ago, getting minimum wage filling in for a person on lunch. I normally work in the paint department, paint is what I know about. There is this guy rushing around like a bull in a china shop with his arms overloaded with breakable objects, he comes up to the counter to ask a question about something on the floor. I suggest he unload his goods for everyone’s convenience. I told him would try to help him, but that this wasn’t my department and I was just filling in for someone on lunch. He was looking at some table thingie with what looked like a motor mounted underneath of it. He asked if we had any more, I checked the computer, it said we didn’t, but the computer isn’t always correct, so I checked the shelf as well. He seemed annoyed that this was the only one we had. I suggested he could buy the floor model, he pointed out that this unit had actual dust on it and it might have to be cleaned and wanted a discount. It didn’t have manuals either, but I told him we would take his name and make sure he was sent some, he didn’t want to hear that, he was just looking to chisel the price down. I called a manager and asked what the policy was on floor models, I was told we take a standard 10% off, which is basically selling the tool at cost. This guy was a little steamy already, but when I told him the discount would be 10%, he lost it, I truly thought he was about to go postal on me. With arms flailing, he knocks stuff off the counter and is muttering something about how he is single handily responsible for the success of Home Depot with the millions in business he has brought to the chain and goes on and on about how he will never be shopping here again. I am trying not to shake my head while this display is going on, and I carelessly utter under my breath, "what an asshole". Little did I know, this guy has his Whisper 2000 cranked to maximum amplification. Big mistake. Now I am almost 6 foot, but my build is what I politely call slight, I am only 150 pounds soaking wet. This ape is 6′5"+ and twice my weight, he leans over the counter right in my face and spraying as he yells, he dares me to repeat what I just said. I am pushing the emergency security button as hard and as fast I can thinking I have about 3 seconds to live before this guy squishes me like a bug. I of course don’t repeat what I said, I cannot believe he even heard it in the first place. Before Dino and Rocko get to the Coral, this guy has stormed out and I am about to quit my job and go live in Alaska. I think this is what they mean by roid rage. A few weeks later, I am called into the carpet on this matter. Apparently this guy has been emailing everyone about this incident and is even trying to rally Ralph Nader to his aid. Ralph said he hates Home Depot, but this guy was to radical for even him. I explain the incident, including the ‘asshole’ remark. I could see the store manager was not to upset with me and he said he might have said worse to the guy, PR be dammed, some people we just don’t need in the store. The store manager also said that the head office has his letters framed and get a chuckle out of them every time they read them. Nothing bad came of it, except that I hear he is still writing congress trying to get a bill passed that when things don’t go your way, you get 10% back on all previous purchases. Don’t worry, I don’t get it either. Oh well, back to the paint department… Thanks, David. May you live in Interesting Times – Ancient Chinese Curse. Newbies, please read this newsgroups FAQ. rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/ Archives http://x29.deja.com/home_ps.shtml crowbar FAQ http://www.concentric.net/~Odeen/oldtools/crowbar.shtml

–         PHoeve …Those that can, do. …The rest just talk about it. Before you buy.

Response:

David, David, David,  those "bulges in the front sides of the men’s back notice a lot of out of stater’s looking at the men’s back supports.  What’s up with that ?  LOL – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Steve, I was going to ask if that was you that Mr. Gut knocked down, I thought for sure I recognised the scarred hand from ABPF, but it was time to move to the left again, so I didn’t get a chance to chat. Mr. Gut is lucky this took place in New Jersey and not Texas. The HD employees down there are all issued Glock 9mm’s and part of the in-house training program involves close range marksmanship. Next time you are in a Texas HD, look for a bulge in the front of those fashionable back supports we are all issued. From re-reading the employee manuals addendum for Texican employees on rules of engagement and reasonable use of force, I would have been justified in winging him in the kneecap. Might have got me employee of the Month… Thanks, David. May you live in Interesting Times – Ancient Chinese Curse. Newbies, please read this newsgroups FAQ. rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/ Archives http://x29.deja.com/home_ps.shtml crowbar FAQ http://www.concentric.net/~Odeen/oldtools/crowbar.shtml

Response:

This is the most fun to hit this group in a long time. Now the kicker will be it was all a troll and he will have a big Gotcha! Well I’m hoping…… John

Response:

Ahhh, you don’t understand at all the new world of political correctness… -Doug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have always maintained that you should never get in trouble for speaking the truth.  Just my opinion!

Response:

I have always maintained that you should never get in trouble for speaking the truth.  Just my opinion!

Response:

Dear Home Depot Customers:   I would like to take this opportunity to tell you what happens to those employees who are flushed out of the HD system.   We become deckhands in Alaska.  Some of us are more fortunate than others, in that we get jobs on commercials boats and therefore are not compelled to deal with clients.   Myself?  None such luck.  I ended up working as a deckhand on a 34′ charter boat called the ‘Irish Mist.’  I was called the "master baiter."  I had to bait their hooks and gaff their fish.  Also, I had to take care of them when they were sick…"Sir…lean over the boat…yes, that’s it…ALL THE WAY over the boat, sir…."   I had to scrub herring scales off the boat daily…and damn, they’d make a good wood glue if someone could come up with a formula…. One day, we had a rather large fellow, probably six-four and about 300 pounds plus.  He was drunk and belligerent when he arrived, and this was at 7am. Well, I knew my work was cut out for me.   He got in my face and demanded to know what time the "all ya can eat for 10% off barbeque starts." I tried to explain to him that we had no such offer.  I tried and tried.  He complained that the boat was dusty and missing parts.  I muttered, "what an asshole," as I climbed up to the flybridge.   Well, luckily for me we’d just taken off from port.  So at the time he was attempting to clamber up the fly ladder after me, he was a victim of too much booze and five foot waves.  I happily sat out the rest of my voyage to see with my walkman and the Eurythmics.   Now, at the time, Alaska fishing laws limited charter boats to two fish per person. The big guy (he kept bragging about some sort of Ford truck limo thing he owned–said he’s bought a wax replica of John Rocker to put on permanent display in it), drank all day and basically threw up the entire time.  He didn’t fish.  Or cut bait. Basically, he slept.  I cut bait.   We’d had a bad day on the water, and were heading back into port in Homer, AK. Mr. Big Guy gets up and suddenly wants to fish.  I, being 19 at the time, was in no position to stop him.  I wasn’t yet ornery enough to challenge men much larger and meaner than me to physical fights.  So, I baited up his hook for him and he took to fishing.   It’s really amazing how quickly one can be lost to the wonders of the sea, especially what with those big boat propellers whirring and spinning about.  Me being a simple girl, how would I know?   I just thought we’d gotten caught up in a nest of sea otters.  I don’t care how cute they look clapping their little hands, they’re pesky creatures to be sure…  It was a tragic accident, to be sure.  However, the rest of our passengers were very pleasantly surprised when they discovered all those "fancy filets" waiting for them at the fishing dock.   So, I hope this will encourage all HD customers to treat your future charter boat deckhands with some respect, as we are quite good with the gaff hook and the filet knife, and are willing to accommodate you in any way we see fit. We look forward to your next visit to Alaska!   Sincerely, Meredith PS:  Of course this is a satire, but I really was a deck hand in Alaska.  Talk about a cool place… "Suppose you were an idiot.  Suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself."  Mark Twain

Response:

Don’t think of working EMS.  First they cuss you for arriving late, then they puke on you before they pass out and force you to dead lift their 300-lb carcasses out of the vehicle or up/down the narrow stairs.  That’s where the EMS corollary to Murphy’s come into play – "the bigger the patient the smaller your partner." Do I have to tell you how big my partner was they day I responded to a 460lb man ejected through (how, I’ll never know) the windscreen of a Toyota mini-pickup?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Myself?  None such luck.  I ended up working as a deckhand on a 34′ charter boat called the ‘Irish Mist.’  I was called the "master baiter."  I had to bait their hooks and gaff their fish.  Also, I had to take care of them when they were sick…"Sir…lean over the boat…yes, that’s it…ALL THE WAY over the boat, sir…."   I had to scrub herring scales off the boat daily…and damn, they’d make a good wood glue if someone could come up with a formula…. One day, we had a rather large fellow, probably six-four and about 300 pounds plus.  He was drunk and belligerent when he arrived, and this was at 7am. Well, I knew my work was cut out for me.   He got in my face and demanded to know what time the "all ya can eat for 10% off barbeque starts." I tried to explain to him that we had no such offer.  I tried and tried.  He complained that the boat was dusty and missing parts.  I muttered, "what an asshole," as I climbed up to the flybridge.

Response:

That’s nothing. I got a paper cut on my finger at work one day last year. Null.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t think of working EMS.  First they cuss you for arriving late, then they puke on you before they pass out and force you to dead lift their 300-lb carcasses out of the vehicle or up/down the narrow stairs.  That’s where the EMS corollary to Murphy’s come into play – "the bigger the patient the smaller your partner." Do I have to tell you how big my partner was they day I responded to a 460lb man ejected through (how, I’ll never know) the windscreen of a Toyota mini-pickup? Myself?  None such luck.  I ended up working as a deckhand on a 34′ charter boat called the ‘Irish Mist.’  I was called the "master baiter."  I had to bait their hooks and gaff their fish.  Also, I had to take care of them when they were sick…"Sir…lean over the boat…yes, that’s it…ALL THE WAY over the boat, sir…."   I had to scrub herring scales off the boat daily…and damn, they’d make a good wood glue if someone could come up with a formula…. One day, we had a rather large fellow, probably six-four and about 300 pounds plus.  He was drunk and belligerent when he arrived, and this was at 7am. Well, I knew my work was cut out for me.   He got in my face and demanded to know what time the "all ya can eat for 10% off barbeque starts." I tried to explain to him that we had no such offer.  I tried and tried.  He complained that the boat was dusty and missing parts.  I muttered, "what an asshole," as I climbed up to the flybridge.

Response:

That’s nothing. I got a paper cut on my finger at work one day last year. Null.

ROTFLMAO!

Response:

Question:

 The Department eventually adopted 33 of these "suggestions" …..

To clarify – the ODFW angling regulation task force, upon which the Oregon Council FFF has a seat, reviewed 900+ proposals and ultimately forwarded 33 (?) for further consideration by the ODFW and the Fish and Wildlife Commission (the final decision rests with the Commission). AS OF NOW, the Department is recommending *against* catch and release for Davis Lake, and their last minute reasons have come as a complete surprise to the Oregon Council FFF and other clubs.  The Commission will decide the fate of Davis during their September 22 hearing. I’m trying to get my comments in, and need to get my butt in gear and share them with all of you so you can make comments. For those that do not know, this is the first time a task force of angling and other representatives has been put together to pre-filter what has historically been a mass of regulation change proposals (some individuals would submit dozens of changes without demonstrating any broad support).  An early point of contention on the new process is whether the proposals being forwarded by the task force to the commission were being recommended for approval by the commission, or whether the tasks forces only job was to look for proposals that had broad support of any kind, or some reason to be debated further in front of the commission. Evidently some of the angling representatives on the task force felt the former (forwarding meant recommending for approval), and felt caught off guard when the ODFW made contrary recommendations *after* all the public meetings and after the task force had concluded its business. Thomas Gilg

Response:

This will be a news item that would interest those who fish in Oregon (and those of you who visit).  The Federation of Fly Fishers, Oregon Council was able to present 160 rule changes to the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife.  The Department eventually adopted 33 of these "suggestions" and the principle gain for the fly fishing community was the removal of the harvest on Davis Lake (catch and release only).  In addition to this major proposal, the Department agreed to close the Odell Creek channel form the buoy upstream to the Forest Service road between the east and west campgrounds to protect spawning beds. My thanks to the volunteers at our local chapter, who worked so hard, so we all could benefit from their splendid efforts. Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot

Response:

 The Department eventually adopted 33 of these "suggestions" ….. To clarify – the ODFW angling regulation task force, upon which the Oregon Council FFF has a seat, reviewed 900+ proposals and ultimately forwarded 33 (?) for further consideration by the ODFW and the Fish and Wildlife Commission (the final decision rests with the Commission). AS OF NOW, the Department is recommending *against* catch and release for Davis Lake, and their last minute reasons have come as a complete surprise to the Oregon Council FFF and other clubs <snipped

Thomas, thanks for bringing this news up-to-date and correcting the lastest statements from FFF. (I was quoting the __Oregon Fly Fisher Newsletter I rec’d in the mail today).  I am sorry to hear about their recommendation against the Davis Lake proposal, in fact I am stunned.  I am in SW Washington and I would be happy to show up at any meetings you think would assist in getting the Oregon Council proposals adopted.  I purchase an out-of-state fishing license every year, so I believe I have a say here even though I am not a resident of the great State of Oregon. — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot

Response:

Question:

I also catch butterfly peacocks in South Florida. The ultimate bait is, of course, small shiners. The best artificial I’ve used for them is a #5 Rapala floating fire tiger.  The colors seem to really get their attention.  It also works well for largemouth bass! Brady – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – we have peacock bass in south fla. i use a number 13 rapala black or silver back, or a 1/8 oz stanly tadum willow leaf glod and silver spinnerbait with a zoom split tail trailer slow rolled. i found any good topwater bait , pop-r or zarra puppy gets them to. Cajunbass8 "THE TRUTH HURTS"

Response:

If you would like to know what works in S. Florida, you might want to order a copy of Carlos Hidalgo’s "South Florida’s Peacock Bass ". He has suggestions for everything from live bait to flyfishing. It is locally available here in Ft. Lauderdale, but you might want to try my Freshwater Fishing Books page for a link to Amazon.com at http://inshore.com/bk-fresh.html . Jim Sawyer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a resident here in hawaii and I would like info on the best methods or lures to catch peacock bass. I haven’t been too successful in catching them and could use any suggestions on catching the butterfly strain of the peacock bass that are stocked here in hawaii. mahalo Lono

Response:

(1)  Do any of you guys/gals who fish for Peacock Bass have pictures of them you could post? (2)  Has anyone ever ascertained if Peacock Bass could cross-breed with LMB bass or spots?  Or smallmouth? Warren Funk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you would like to know what works in S. Florida, you might want to order a copy of Carlos Hidalgo’s "South Florida’s Peacock Bass ". He has suggestions for everything from live bait to flyfishing. It is locally available here in Ft. Lauderdale, but you might want to try my Freshwater Fishing Books page for a link to Amazon.com at http://inshore.com/bk-fresh.html . Jim Sawyer I am a resident here in hawaii and I would like info on the best methods or lures to catch peacock bass. I haven’t been too successful in catching them and could use any suggestions on catching the butterfly strain of the peacock bass that are stocked here in hawaii. mahalo Lono

Response:

Hey Warren — I just checked out page 742 of McClane’s Standard Fishing Encyclopedia (includes a nice picture).  According to McClane, the Peacock is a member of the cichlid family. Our favorite black beauties are members of the sunfish family.  I dont’ think we have to worry about hybridization because the only situation where members of two completely different families can mate and reproduce is in a cheap Sci-Fi movie. Gotta tell you a quick story about hybridization and cichlids.  Years ago I was strolling the shoreline of Town Lake which winds through downtown Austin, Texas.  When I see a group of anglers on the bank, it’s pretty hard for me to pass by without stopping to see what they’re catching, — especially, as in this case, when they’re acting excited.  So I trotted over and asked what was happening.  One of the older guys said, "My wife just caught the damndest thing you ever saw — it’s a cross between a Bluegill and a Piranha!"  His wife chimed in, "It ain’t safe to swim here anymore — these things could bite your leg off." I have to admit I was pretty curious because it is not unknown for tropical fish hobbyists to turn unwanted pets loose, and Town Lake has produced some interesting catches, so I’ve heard.   So I asked to see the fish.   She proudly held up an 8-inch male Rio Grande Perch, which with its hump, does look a little like a Piranha.   I said, "Yes ma’am, that’s pretty interesting," and continued my walk. The Rio Grande Perch is, I think, the only member of the cichlid family native to North America.  Austin is about as far north as you’re likely to see one. Tight Lines, Bent Rods, Storm

Response:

Warren, I have a picture of about a 3# peacock I caught last year.  Unfortunately, I’m holding it so you have to see me as well! I don’t know if it’s proper to post it here – I can scan it and post it, or e-mail it to you directly. Please let me know. Brady – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (1)  Do any of you guys/gals who fish for Peacock Bass have pictures of them you could post? (2)  Has anyone ever ascertained if Peacock Bass could cross-breed with LMB bass or spots?  Or smallmouth? Warren Funk If you would like to know what works in S. Florida, you might want to order a copy of Carlos Hidalgo’s "South Florida’s Peacock Bass ". He has suggestions for everything from live bait to flyfishing. It is locally available here in Ft. Lauderdale, but you might want to try my Freshwater Fishing Books page for a link to Amazon.com at http://inshore.com/bk-fresh.html . Jim Sawyer I am a resident here in hawaii and I would like info on the best methods or lures to catch peacock bass. I haven’t been too successful in catching them and could use any suggestions on catching the butterfly strain of the peacock bass that are stocked here in hawaii. mahalo Lono

Response:

I am a resident here in hawaii and I would like info on the best methods or lures to catch peacock bass. I haven’t been too successful in catching them and could use any suggestions on catching the butterfly strain of the peacock bass that are stocked here in hawaii. mahalo Lono

Response:

we have peacock bass in south fla. i use a number 13 rapala black or silver back, or a 1/8 oz stanly tadum willow leaf glod and silver spinnerbait with a zoom split tail trailer slow rolled. i found any good topwater bait , pop-r or zarra puppy gets them to. Cajunbass8 "THE TRUTH HURTS"

Response:

Question:

shouldn’t rely on high sounding principles of international/maritime law.

Rely instead on the law of gross tonnage… Andy La Varre **** Join the fight against spam!             details at http://www.cauce.org

Response:

but they never requested permission to board…

In this case they just wanted to see the boat It was a very pretty little boat, at 31 feet in St. Katherine’s Yacht Haven a very long way from home, so they were curious… Andy La Varre **** Join the fight against spam!             details at http://www.cauce.org

Response:

Snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In reality, the combination of the fact that you are in their country and they are (heavily) armed usually infers automatic permission. Officials, by marine law, have the right to board a vessel "for just cause" -they usually decide what that means. A "warship" just has an advantage over pleasure boats in that it is heavily armed and carries its own "army" with it to enforce their rights. The bottom line is that, as others have stated, when in someone else’s country we should all behave as good guests, not as obnoxious tourists. Mel Haylock         Mel is correct. Any flagged(documented) pleasure vessel has territoral status. However, there are so many loopholes in Martime Law as to almost render that status moot when in foreign territoral waters. Add to that treaties with other countries that transfer authority to the foreign power for ships in the others waters. You best just be cool and not try to invoke Miranda, ie. be a hard ass.         If you are on the high seas, that is another story. Flagged vessels have the obligatory protection of all US armed forces. Or if they under protective escort by a warship in foreign territoral waters. Like Mel say, a warship has the where-with-all to make a hard ass point that skews the rules a bit. — Mark Fay Home OS/2 Merlin User ISDN & BitSurfer Pro S/V Enough Morgan 44 CC No. 1051223 If you’re right, Mark, how comes customs in any country will come on board a merchant ship or pleasure yacht, search the boat for contraband, seal the "spirits locker", etc. John

  Read the above John in particular the phrase ‘Just Cause’ which is open to the host nations interpritation. Peter

Response:

Well, yes and no. First of all I assume, that you are an US citizen and you are sailing under the US flag (not the other way round, i.e. visiting the US). Actual procedures will vary from state to state. But as a general rule you can import whatever is allowed by the law of your home state. Once you are checking in at the imigration harbor local authorities will seal any equipment or supply, that does not comply with local laws. You are not allowed to break the seal until you are checking out again. Doing so will get you into serious trouble! So, sorry, no alcohol in moslem states. Also note, that most states have a very particular view about weapons. The most friendly custom or imigration officer may become all business and decide to search you boat for hours. And hiding a gun is a save way to inspect local prisons. Even for a flare gun you will need an allowance in e.g. Germany. How sovereign? You are under full jurisdiction of local authorities once you crossed the border between the open sea and coastal waters. jue — J

Question:

Ok, this is really *our* impression of Cancun.  I am not trying to provoke any major responses to this, as it is just an opinion from our recent trip there. First of all I did actually like the beaches on/near the Omni Cancun hotel. The beaches were very nice, sand very white and soft and not hot. The water is absolutely beautiful with vivid colors of light-dark blue. Beautiful! If you are a serious beach bum you will love this aspect of Cancun.  I hear that you really need to check out the property you are interested in because some of the beaches have been washed out from past storms and the brochures do not mention that tiny fact.  Most are ok though. The second nice thing is that the bus system is GREAT.  Only 3 pesos (about 20 cents).  The buses run 24 hours a day and every 4-5 minutes.  Easy to use, and much cheaper than cabs which run a minimum of 30 pesos (3$). Now the things I didn’t like: The shop keepers at the various flea markets have very very few bargain items.  Most of the items we were interested in were expensive and the shop keepers really really tried to make you feel bad for being a "wealthy" American who "gets vacations". All in all I can get REAL bargains in Nuevo Larado (Texas/Mexico border city).  If you have LOTS of money and don’t mind turning loose of it then you might feel differently than I/we did. In general the city and resort area had a bad "smell" most places we went. There was an occasional stench that smelled like sewar water or something to that effect. This was noticed most everywhere and we weren’t really sure where it was coming from.  On those lines, when you’re traveling down a street, if you look closely you’ll notice off to the side of the roads there appears to be garbage, rubbish and various other "trash" items that are usually behind shrubs, etc… It’s as if they decided to build a road and "scraped" all the surrounding rubbish off to the side of the road and tried to hide it with shrubs. Expensive, expensive, expensive.  There are no places you can go to have fun or eat or drink without paying a premium price.  And if your hotel or club offers "happy hours" it is for them not for you.  Happy hours at our hotel and some bars are no value.  Our drinks had very little liquor in them and the prices were still high even for watered down drinks.  The only exception is beer, they haven’t found a way to water that down (I think). We also paid $10. (USD) to get into a popular disco/dance club called Christine’s.  It was nice but the drinks were expensive and small and the bar was nice but not as nice as many of our US bars.  Personally I wouldn’t recommend it for the cover alone. Last but not least is all the begging that goes on there.  The vendors are so aggressive that you can’t do or go anywhere without feeling like you’re being accosted.  Small children are just as bad as the grown up folks except a lot (not all) of the vendors will try to intimidate you into buying and if you offer them a price they act insulted and when you leave their shop they start insulting you (Coral Negro flea market). This goes on pretty much everywhere and after the first day it’s all one can do just to go somewhere without being accosted over and over. PS: We are from Texas (good mexican food) and in our opinion we did not like any of the "mexican" food there.  We ate at Senor Frogs as well and the meal was just "so-so".  All of the restaurants did not have spicy mexican food and it was pretty much bland.  I cannot recommend any place except Pat O’ Brians (Great nachos and bbq sandwich). If anyone wants further info please feel free to email me directly at:

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok, this is really *our* impression of Cancun.  I am not trying to provoke any major responses to this, as it is just an opinion from our recent trip there. First of all I did actually like the beaches on/near the Omni Cancun hotel. The beaches were very nice, sand very white and soft and not hot. The water is absolutely beautiful with vivid colors of light-dark blue. Beautiful! If you are a serious beach bum you will love this aspect of Cancun.  I hear that you really need to check out the property you are interested in because some of the beaches have been washed out from past storms and the brochures do not mention that tiny fact.  Most are ok though. The second nice thing is that the bus system is GREAT.  Only 3 pesos (about 20 cents).  The buses run 24 hours a day and every 4-5 minutes.  Easy to use, and much cheaper than cabs which run a minimum of 30 pesos (3$). Now the things I didn’t like: The shop keepers at the various flea markets have very very few bargain items.  Most of the items we were interested in were expensive and the shop keepers really really tried to make you feel bad for being a "wealthy" American who "gets vacations". All in all I can get REAL bargains in Nuevo Larado (Texas/Mexico border city).  If you have LOTS of money and don’t mind turning loose of it then you might feel differently than I/we did. In general the city and resort area had a bad "smell" most places we went. There was an occasional stench that smelled like sewar water or something to that effect. This was noticed most everywhere and we weren’t really sure where it was coming from.  On those lines, when you’re traveling down a street, if you look closely you’ll notice off to the side of the roads there appears to be garbage, rubbish and various other "trash" items that are usually behind shrubs, etc… It’s as if they decided to build a road and "scraped" all the surrounding rubbish off to the side of the road and tried to hide it with shrubs. Expensive, expensive, expensive.  There are no places you can go to have fun or eat or drink without paying a premium price.  And if your hotel or club offers "happy hours" it is for them not for you.  Happy hours at our hotel and some bars are no value.  Our drinks had very little liquor in them and the prices were still high even for watered down drinks.  The only exception is beer, they haven’t found a way to water that down (I think). We also paid $10. (USD) to get into a popular disco/dance club called Christine’s.  It was nice but the drinks were expensive and small and the bar was nice but not as nice as many of our US bars.  Personally I wouldn’t recommend it for the cover alone. Last but not least is all the begging that goes on there.  The vendors are so aggressive that you can’t do or go anywhere without feeling like you’re being accosted.  Small children are just as bad as the grown up folks except a lot (not all) of the vendors will try to intimidate you into buying and if you offer them a price they act insulted and when you leave their shop they start insulting you (Coral Negro flea market). This goes on pretty much everywhere and after the first day it’s all one can do just to go somewhere without being accosted over and over. PS: We are from Texas (good mexican food) and in our opinion we did not like any of the "mexican" food there.  We ate at Senor Frogs as well and the meal was just "so-so".  All of the restaurants did not have spicy mexican food and it was pretty much bland.  I cannot recommend any place except Pat O’ Brians (Great nachos and bbq sandwich). If anyone wants further info please feel free to email me directly at:

I got the same impression last time we were there in ‘92.  The only thing I would have to add was the time share terrorists.  We would be walking along enjoying the warm breeze when out of nowhere some guy would come flying out of a moving vehicle and they wouldn’t leave you alone.  Finally we said we were leaving that afternoon and they would give up.  We were there in 1983 and loved it, so we were extremely disappointed when we went back and that will be our last trip to Cancun.  We ventured a little further south to Playa del Carmen and loved it there.  My fear now to go back is that the same thing is happening there as happened in Cancun. Just my 2 cents. Diane

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– thanks to spam bots, my address is despammed, if you are a real person, you should be able to figure it out. This part of the post I can’t let go.  I am also from Texas originally and what you are used to is NOT mexican food.  It is Tex-Mex.  You can not compare mexican food to what you are used to. Mexican food is not spicy. Mexican food rarely contains beef, the land doesn’t support beef well. Chicken, fish, and goats are the mainstay and it varys by the region.  By the way, I like both Tex-mex and mexican food.  I can’t say anything about the food in cancun as I have not been there, but don’t base your comparisons to your local cuisine, its comparing apples and oranges.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – PS: We are from Texas (good mexican food) and in our opinion we did not like any of the "mexican" food there.  We ate at Senor Frogs as well and the meal was just "so-so".  All of the restaurants did not have spicy mexican food and it was pretty much bland.  I cannot recommend any place except Pat O’ Brians (Great nachos and bbq sandwich). If anyone wants further info please feel free to email me directly at:

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Don, Being a native Texan I also know the difference between Mexican food and Tex-Mex food.  I never meant to imply they were one in the same HOWEVER there is a difference in what I expected.  I expected Mexican food (I was in Mexico) with a Yucatan flair… things wrapped/cooked in banana leaves, pescado (fish) dishes, etc…  The food we ate down in Cancun were typically recommended highly by the various hotels and some guidebooks but they always turned out to be bad Mexican food without any particular nuance of the region they were supposed to represent (Yucatan).  My comments about spicy wasn’t meaning HOT, I just meant that I preferred my food with some form of taste to it.  The food from Cancun (for the mostpart) was tasteless and appeared to be a poor copy of Tex-Mex (or that’s the way it looked to us). PS: I’ve already received several direct emails agreeing with me so I know that I’m not crazy M. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — thanks to spam bots, my address is despammed, if you are a real person, you should be able to figure it out. This part of the post I can’t let go.  I am also from Texas originally and what you are used to is NOT mexican food.  It is Tex-Mex.  You can not compare mexican food to what you are used to. Mexican food is not spicy. Mexican food rarely contains beef, the land doesn’t support beef well. Chicken, fish, and goats are the mainstay and it varys by the region.  By the way, I like both Tex-mex and mexican food.  I can’t say anything about the food in cancun as I have not been there, but don’t base your comparisons to your local cuisine, its comparing apples and oranges. PS: We are from Texas (good mexican food) and in our opinion we did not like any of the "mexican" food there.  We ate at Senor Frogs as well and the meal was just "so-so".  All of the restaurants did not have spicy mexican food and it was pretty much bland.  I cannot recommend any place except Pat O’ Brians (Great nachos and bbq sandwich). If anyone wants further info please feel free to email me directly at:

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sorry you feel that way. i’m heading back for my 8th trip end of Jan. i go mostly for the first part of your trip. and because i Love the hotel i stay at (Fiesta American Coral Beach) since it is a mega resort you have to do some searching to find good value. and yes there are some Yucatan restaurants, but mostly it is tex-mex. tim

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I’ve been to Cancun twice. I enjoyed both of my visits. I stayed at the Blue Bay Club and Marina, which is an all-inclusive hotel. Personally, I prefer all-inclusive hotels because you don’t have to carry cash when you’re at the hotel and you can eat and drink as much as you want without worrying about the bill! Also, the food at the hotel was great. They had Mexican options at every meal! The different salsas were fabulous! The hotel staff was friendly and always entertaining. The hotel also had a bus that would take us into town at night to the discos. The discos were pricey but not over the top. I agree that the flea markets were outrageous! I couldn’t take more that 5 minutes they were so rude! I don’t mind bargaining but when they start yelling at you or chasing you, that’s when I draw the line. Luckily, the hotel had theme night and one of which was Mexican. Kiosks were set up and local wares were sold in the main lobby at very reasonable prices. I really had a great time in Cancun and would probably go back. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – sorry you feel that way. i’m heading back for my 8th trip end of Jan. i go mostly for the first part of your trip. and because i Love the hotel i stay at (Fiesta American Coral Beach) since it is a mega resort you have to do some searching to find good value. and yes there are some Yucatan restaurants, but mostly it is tex-mex. tim

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don, Being a native Texan I also know the difference between Mexican food and Tex-Mex food.  I never meant to imply they were one in the same HOWEVER there is a difference in what I expected.  I expected Mexican food (I was in Mexico) with a Yucatan flair… things wrapped/cooked in banana leaves, pescado (fish) dishes, etc…  <snip I am also from Texas originally and what you are used to is NOT mexican food.  It is Tex-Mex.   PS: We are from Texas (good mexican food) and in our opinion we did not like any of the "mexican" food there.  We ate at Senor Frogs as well and the meal was just "so-so".  All of the restaurants did not have spicy mexican food and it was pretty much bland.  I cannot recommend any place except Pat O’ Brians (Great nachos and bbq sandwich).

I think you’re both missing an important point: Cancun may be in Mexico, but there is no Mexico in Cancun.  It is a Disneyfied version of what the Mexican tourist board thinks tourists want; obviously, they thought correctly.  If Cancun is the only place you’ve ever visited, you have not seen Mexico.  I’ve had to fly to/from there to get to other destinations, and had never had the "opportunity" to spend the night until this past summer (because of an early a.m. flight); I was with a teenaged cousin who had been a good sport about eating real Mexican–after years of Taco Bell–at our other destinations, so let him choose where he wanted to eat dinner in Cancun.  Yeesh, Planet Hollywood…I was truly appalled, during the cab ride, at how built up the island was. Another post-er mentioned nearby Playa del Carmen as a less-touristy destination, but unfortunately, it’s not the sleepy fishing village it was on my first visit, not so long ago.  Still, better than Cancun

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Question:

I’m looking for a quiet weekend spot to camp that preferably isn’t in a campground, is relatively easily accessible by novice hikers and within a few hours drive from Boston or Providence (anywhere in RI, CT, western MA, southern NH, VT, or ME).  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Please mail

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I’m looking for a quiet weekend spot to camp that preferably isn’t in a campground, is relatively easily accessible by novice hikers and within a few hours drive from Boston or Providence

Jay, On my homepage click on "resources" and you will find a link to all of Vermont’s state parks. Good luck. James Ehlers Underhill, Vermont Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

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Question:

Joel, you are a man after my own heart.  About the only difference is I fish dry flies and I do have a #1 Hoffman grizzly saddle which ties magnificent dry flies, and each hackle will tie 4 to 7 flies.   Ernie Harrison I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real

difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns,

sparkle duns, LaFontaine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. jka

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 Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make.

Where do you buy your hooks? I pay over 10 cents each buying them in 100 packs? Willi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. <Snip If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka  Have you tried the Tom Thumb? It is THE dry fly in British Columbia. Can be fished as a caddis or mayfly imitation and uses three materials: hook, working thread, and deer hair. It is described in The Gilly. — Vic Brockett Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com/~vic I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. <Snip If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka

 Have you tried the Tom Thumb? It is THE dry fly in British Columbia. Can be fished as a caddis or mayfly imitation and uses three materials: hook, working thread, and deer hair. It is described in The Gilly. — Vic Brockett Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com/~vic

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<Bulk of excellent reply snipped  Then there are the "secret" patterns, a few of which are not available anywhere but on my vice and that of a couple close friends. Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make. The time is no big deal, I usually tie on those slow Sundays when I’m actively not watching some sports megaevent on TV, or during the long cold winters here in Maine. tight lines!

Dave I think you hit it right on the head. Tying gives you the ability to produce exactly what you need to catch fish on a consistant basis on your local streams/rivers.  Plus it’s fun, plus, what do you do in Wisconsin when it’s -30 with wind chill in Wisconsin in February???? Tight lines, Steve Hering

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I notice that the responses to this original post are now starting to take on the notion of defending fly tying for its own sake.  A cause which I believe I showed support for in the original post.  Please understand that I love tying flies and that I think it worth every penny I’ve ever spent (and will continue to spend) in the future.  Also, I’m not surprised that some of you out there who fish more often actually do manage to get a ‘volume discount’ on your flies by tying them yourselves. My original intent was meant to coax a wry smile from fellow tiers who are still ‘over capitalized’ with regard to their supply of fly tying materials….and probably will remain so for some time.  My hats off to all of you who have managed to tie economically.  (Actually, I don’t envy you so much for your money saving acumen as I do for the fact that you are probably saving because you go fishing a lot more than I do!)–                                                            -dnc- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong.  I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled.  But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                                                -dnc-

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D., You obviously haven’t bought your first #1 neck yet.  It’ll more than double your initial $60 outlay.  (And getting that vise for free is cheating!).  If you really get into tying, and you are interested in tying many different patterns, let me know how it all works out, a couple years from now (after your s.o. has left you for a more frugal s.o.).  The $10000 may be an exaggeration (or maybe not, maybe the guy bought some Dodo feathers???), but I have spent at least $500 so far, and I’m not nearly as well set up as some of the really good tyers I know. If you are economically able to tie a variety of flies, and you aren’t lucky enough to have your buddies give you all the necessary materials, I’d be more than happy to suffer the slings and arrows of a ‘told-you-so’ from you (just as long as it’s accompanied by some useful hints on how I might likewise economize)–                                                            -dnc- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – < 10k in equipment?  Not saving money tying flies?  Where you guys shopping?   Just started tying.  ….  [snip] have a total investment of 60 bucks.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                  -dnc- I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials.   Paul < 10k in equipment?  Not saving money tying flies?  Where you guys shopping? Just started tying.  Vise was free, used, but holds a hook no problems. Bobbin, couple types of scissors, thread, tinsel, wire, dubbing, herl, shaved a few bunnies at a friends ranch, mask, pheasant tail, etc….  I have a total investment of 60 bucks.  I have tied about 40 flies so far. Where I live  40 flies = 40 bucks, at least.  How could you not save money, even eventually as Paul (10k ??? are you serious?  Nah, can’t be.) pointed out.  I spend about 15 bucks avg on flies each trip, at least. Figure30-40 trips a year of varying degrees and I save lots of money every year. Ok, I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o. D. Howell

Denial!!! Plus, "I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o."… That’s a sure sign that there’s another one hooked pretty good…. You should save your note and review it and your inventory of tying stuff in five years…. Greg

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– dave’s homepage madness http://www.ime.net/~dbottom  Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make. Where do you buy your hooks? I pay over 10 cents each buying them in 100 packs? Willi

I got hooks coming out my ears for most styles…but the last box of hooks I bought, 94840’s were about $5.50 so maybe the estimate was slightly low..given that those hooks cost 5.5 cents each, 10 cents is still pretty close on the cost dave — dave’s homepage madness http://www.ime.net/~dbottom

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. <Snip If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka

 Have you tried the Tom Thumb? It is THE dry fly in British Columbia. Can be fished as a caddis or mayfly imitation and uses three materials: hook, working thread, and deer hair. It is described in The Gilly. — Vic Brockett Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com/~vic

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How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?

Initially, I thought that I would save some money.  And in fact, I do (or I will after I tie many more flies).  My problem is that I enjoy tying new and different flies, therefore, I am always adding new materials that keeps the cost per fly high.           I have found that tying my own flies adds a dimension to my fishing.  Every time I tie one, I end up imagining where and what I will catch with it.  Most of all, I enjoy the satisfaction of tying a good fly.  The response from others to what I do has been phenomenal. I love to see the look on people’s faces when I show them a good fly and tell them that I have tied it.  It makes for some great conversation.   All in all it is unbeatable M. Richardson

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Good point.  Actually, given a moderate inflation rate, you may actually break even a few years earlier.  Me too.  Gosh.  I guess I don’t feel so bad now! —                                                            -dnc- Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?

Paul Wilson responded – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials. What the heck, after the age of 150, I’ll be saving money buddy!

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Its not about saving money!!  If that were the case we wouldn’t be in this sport.  It’s about fooling the bass (trout) into believing that what you tied is for real.  It’s about relaxing and expounding you horizons – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong.  I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled.  But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                                                -dnc-

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I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. Actually, I fish nymphs about 70% or better of the time. You can tie a lot of Pheasant Tails and Hare’s Ears for next to nothing. I figure each fly probably cost me 10-20 cents. The main kicker is that once you a become proficient tyer, you can tye a heck of a lot better fly than you buy I also refuse to spend the extra money for Tiemco hooks. Mustad’s quality and the styles offered have improved over recent years and they’re a heck of a lot more reasonably priced. If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka

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Sandman, When I got into fly fishing it wasn’t expensive.  My entire outfit cost less than $100, and that included fly tying equipment.  I still have much of it today and still use it.  Of course the addiction today is the same as it was then. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its not about saving money!!  If that were the case we wouldn’t be in this sport.  It’s about fooling the bass (trout) into believing that what you tied is for real.  It’s about relaxing and expounding you horizons

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How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                  -dnc-

Well I did. over the past 15 years I’ve paid out probably between $600-800 for tools and materials, and at an average cost of $1.50 a fly I’ve probably saved alot. I now have most materials in abundance, perhaps more than I’ll use for the rest of my life. About all I purchase now are hooks, head cement, and occasional spool of thread and hackle every few years, though I do lust after a really good rotating vice, maybe this year…. I go through 50-100 flies a year, and usually give a bunch away to some budding angler, which makes their day. I Also feel that the quality of my flies is much higher than commercial flies, even those bought at premium shops like LL Beans. I have also modified many patterns to fit the local hatches better, and as a result I believe that I catch more and bigger fish. Tying gives you the option to experiment with materials like white skunk, which is very straight and translucent when wet, or to tie up maribou versions of popular streamers like a grey ghost that work much better in moving waters. Then there are the "secret" patterns, a few of which are not available anywhere but on my vice and that of a couple close friends. Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make. The time is no big deal, I usually tie on those slow Sundays when I’m actively not watching some sports megaevent on TV, or during the long cold winters here in Maine. tight lines!

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In tying, unlike fishing, if you do everything just right, you will definitely be rewarded – with a nice fly! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? D. Howell

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                  -dnc- I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials.   Paul < 10k in equipment?  Not saving money tying flies?  Where you guys shopping?   Just started tying.  Vise was free, used, but holds a hook no problems. Bobbin, couple types of scissors, thread, tinsel, wire, dubbing, herl, shaved a few bunnies at a friends ranch, mask, pheasant tail, etc….  I have a total investment of 60 bucks.  I have tied about 40 flies so far. Where I live  40 flies = 40 bucks, at least.  How could you not save money, even eventually as Paul (10k ??? are you serious?  Nah, can’t be.) pointed out.  I spend about 15 bucks avg on flies each trip, at least. Figure30-40 trips a year of varying degrees and I save lots of money every year. Ok, I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o. D. Howell

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Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?

I did save a lot of money.  The first year I lost so many flies in the trees and bushes that I found they had started their own hatch when I went back the next year.

You are the man, Ernie!  Do you give classes?

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How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                  -dnc- I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials.   Paul

< 10k in equipment?  Not saving money tying flies?  Where you guys shopping?   Just started tying.  Vise was free, used, but holds a hook no problems. Bobbin, couple types of scissors, thread, tinsel, wire, dubbing, herl, shaved a few bunnies at a friends ranch, mask, pheasant tail, etc….  I have a total investment of 60 bucks.  I have tied about 40 flies so far. Where I live  40 flies = 40 bucks, at least.  How could you not save money, even eventually as Paul (10k ??? are you serious?  Nah, can’t be.) pointed out.  I spend about 15 bucks avg on flies each trip, at least. Figure30-40 trips a year of varying degrees and I save lots of money every year. Ok, I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o. D. Howell

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Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?

I did save a lot of money.  The first year I lost so many flies in the trees and bushes that I found they had started their own hatch when I went back the next year. Ernie Harrison

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Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong.  I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled.  But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                                                -dnc-

I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials. What the heck, after the age of 150, I’ll be saving money buddy! Paul

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Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong.  I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled.  But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                                                -dnc-

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Question:

I spoke to a guy in a Kalispell flyshop and he told me all the streams were blown out with melt. I will be traveling MT between Kalispell and Helena next week on business but should be able to fish 1-2 days. Where should I go? The flyshop guy said they were doing great at the pothole lakes near Browning. That’s way to far out of my route for me. Thanks. I hope this spring brings many scrappy fish to your lines.

Hi David, Yes most streams here in Montana are high and dirty with spring run off. One area you might check is Libby, Montana. The first 4 miles of the Kootenai River below the dam remains fairly clean during runoff and may very well be your only shot. 4 miles down stream from the dam the Fisher River will probably be pouring a lot of dirty water into the system. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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The problem you have is that you talked to the fellow at Kalispell last week, and you’re coming next week.  At this time of year, that is an eternity!  In the spring, conditions are volatile.  After 10 days of cold weather, most everything is down again.  If it warms up, it will come back up. If it stays cool, the rivers stay down. You have a couple of options on how you go to Kalispell from Helena.  If you go north from Helena, the Missouri below Holter Dam has come down and is offering some good midge dry fly fishing(if the wind isn’t blowing).  You can wade that stretch of the river, and there are several fly shops in Wolf Creek and Craig, Montana.  If you go west to Missoula and then up to Kalispell you could fish Rock Creek or maybe the Bitteroot south of Missoula.  I’d recommend you talk to the fellows at Grizzly Hackle in Missoula about that fishing.   Dave Kumlien, Montana Troutfitters,Bozeman html

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I spoke to a guy in a Kalispell flyshop and he told me all the streams were blown out with melt. I will be traveling MT between Kalispell and Helena next week on business but should be able to fish 1-2 days. Where should I go? The flyshop guy said they were doing great at the pothole lakes near Browning. That’s way to far out of my route for me. Thanks. I hope this spring brings many scrappy fish to your lines.

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I spoke to a guy in a Kalispell flyshop and he told me all the streams were blown out with melt. I will be traveling MT between Kalispell and Helena next week on business but should be able to fish 1-2 days. Where should I go? The flyshop guy said they were doing great at the pothole lakes near Browning. That’s way to far out of my route for me. Thanks. I hope this spring brings many scrappy fish to your lines.

Rock Creek is fishing pretty good…has is the Bitterroot..but it is pretty high.

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