Question:
NRA FILES CIVIL RIGHTS SUIT On Tuesday, the National Rifle Association filed a civil rights lawsuit on behalf of 12-year-old Virginia NRA member Alan Newsom. The lawsuit charges the principal and vice-principal of the Jack Jouett Middle School and the Albemarle County (Va.) School Board Superintendent and Board members with violating Newsom’s First Amendment rights when they banned him from wearing an NRA Youth Sports Shooting Camp shirt, bearing NRA’s logo, to school last year. Newsom was forced to remove his T-shirt by the vice-principal and told to turn it inside out. She considered the shirt’s illustrations of individuals involved in shooting sports to violate school policy, even though at the time there was no rule that prohibited such clothing. When NRA notified school authorities that their action violated the student’ s civil rights, the school subsequently added a provision for the 2002-2003 school year barring any clothing associated with "weapons" and "violence." "The facts are clear. Alan Newsom was singled-out by the vice-principal because he was wearing an NRA T-shirt," said NRA’s Executive Vice-President Wayne LaPierre. "The T-shirt clearly depicts individuals involved in shooting sports. The images are in no way inappropriate or violent. This is a blatant infringement of young Alan’s constitutional rights. I was dumbfounded when I learned of the facts of this case after Alan’s parents contacted us, and didn’t hesitate to take up this challenge. I am proud to say that NRA stands proudly with this brave young man," LaPierre said. The lawsuit, which seeks $100,000 in damages and $50,000 in punitive damages plus legal costs, was filed in the U.S. Federal District Court for Western District of Virginia, Charlottesville Division. Among the 12 counts included in the federal suit are free speech and due process violations under federal and state constitutions. "NRA wholeheartedly supports the reasonable prohibition of images on clothing depicting violence in a school setting. However, to preclude a student from wearing an article of clothing because it may run counter to the viewpoints or political beliefs of some school officials is deplorable," LaPierre added. In Tinker v. Des Moines School District, the U.S. Supreme Court held "[i]n order for the State in the person of the school officials to justify prohibition of a particular expressed opinion, it must be able to show that its actions were caused by something more than a mere desire to avoid the discomfort and unpleasantness that always accompany an unpopular viewpoint." NRA’s lawsuit also challenges the ambiguity of the new school rule which will not only affect all NRA logos, but also the Great Seal of the United States, the United States Army logo, and the seal of the Commonwealth of Virginia-all with images of "weapons" that would fall within the prohibitions of the school’s new policy. "This is clearly a case of political-correctness running unchecked," LaPierre added. "Alan is a good student who has no disciplinary problems in school. He developed an affinity for shooting sports and his father enrolled him in a NRA Youth Safety Camp to learn basic firearm safety. Alan aspires to represent his country in the Olympics someday. The school authorities harassed and breached Alan’s First Amendment rights merely for his interest in the NRA and shooting sports." The lawsuit noted that, ironically, Jack Jouett Middle School is named for an American Revolutionary War hero who is known for his famous ride on June 3, 1781, in which despite the potential for personal peril, he rode through the night to warn Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, and others that British troops were on their way to arrest patriots for signing the Declaration of Independence. In appreciation for this act of bravery, the Virginia Legislature awarded Captain Jack Jouett a sword and a pair of pistols. For more information on this case, and other cases that NRA-ILA is pursuing, please call (800) 392-8683.
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where’s the fly fishing in this story? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NRA FILES CIVIL RIGHTS SUIT On Tuesday, the National Rifle Association filed a civil rights lawsuit on behalf of 12-year-old Virginia NRA member Alan Newsom. The lawsuit charges the principal and vice-principal of the Jack Jouett Middle School and the Albemarle County (Va.) School Board Superintendent and Board members with violating Newsom’s First Amendment rights when they banned him from wearing an NRA Youth Sports Shooting Camp shirt, bearing NRA’s logo, to school last year. Newsom was forced to remove his T-shirt by the vice-principal and told to turn it inside out. She considered the shirt’s illustrations of individuals involved in shooting sports to violate school policy, even though at the time there was no rule that prohibited such clothing. When NRA notified school authorities that their action violated the student’ s civil rights, the school subsequently added a provision for the 2002-2003 school year barring any clothing associated with "weapons" and "violence." "The facts are clear. Alan Newsom was singled-out by the vice-principal because he was wearing an NRA T-shirt," said NRA’s Executive Vice-President Wayne LaPierre. "The T-shirt clearly depicts individuals involved in shooting sports. The images are in no way inappropriate or violent. This is a blatant infringement of young Alan’s constitutional rights. I was dumbfounded when I learned of the facts of this case after Alan’s parents contacted us, and didn’t hesitate to take up this challenge. I am proud to say that NRA stands proudly with this brave young man," LaPierre said. The lawsuit, which seeks $100,000 in damages and $50,000 in punitive damages plus legal costs, was filed in the U.S. Federal District Court for Western District of Virginia, Charlottesville Division. Among the 12 counts included in the federal suit are free speech and due process violations under federal and state constitutions. "NRA wholeheartedly supports the reasonable prohibition of images on clothing depicting violence in a school setting. However, to preclude a student from wearing an article of clothing because it may run counter to the viewpoints or political beliefs of some school officials is deplorable," LaPierre added. In Tinker v. Des Moines School District, the U.S. Supreme Court held "[i]n order for the State in the person of the school officials to justify prohibition of a particular expressed opinion, it must be able to show that its actions were caused by something more than a mere desire to avoid the discomfort and unpleasantness that always accompany an unpopular viewpoint." NRA’s lawsuit also challenges the ambiguity of the new school rule which will not only affect all NRA logos, but also the Great Seal of the United States, the United States Army logo, and the seal of the Commonwealth of Virginia-all with images of "weapons" that would fall within the prohibitions of the school’s new policy. "This is clearly a case of political-correctness running unchecked," LaPierre added. "Alan is a good student who has no disciplinary problems in school. He developed an affinity for shooting sports and his father enrolled him in a NRA Youth Safety Camp to learn basic firearm safety. Alan aspires to represent his country in the Olympics someday. The school authorities harassed and breached Alan’s First Amendment rights merely for his interest in the NRA and shooting sports." The lawsuit noted that, ironically, Jack Jouett Middle School is named for an American Revolutionary War hero who is known for his famous ride on June 3, 1781, in which despite the potential for personal peril, he rode through the night to warn Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, and others that British troops were on their way to arrest patriots for signing the Declaration of Independence. In appreciation for this act of bravery, the Virginia Legislature awarded Captain Jack Jouett a sword and a pair of pistols. For more information on this case, and other cases that NRA-ILA is pursuing, please call (800) 392-8683.
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Question:
Guiding is a very tough business and dealing with cranks who won’t do as they’re told to catch fish has to be frustrating. I mean, one of the ways that a guide evaluates his own job performance is to tally up the fish count and I don’t have a problem with that per se. But it will be a cold day in hell before Ken Fortenberry is caught using a gawdamn bobber on a fly line. Nothing against those who do, strictly a personal foible, but catching a fish just ain’t all THAT friggin’ important. — Ken Fortenberry- tired of arguing politics, but not tired of arguing 
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Guiding is a very tough business and dealing with cranks who won’t do as they’re told to catch fish has to be frustrating. I mean, one of the ways that a guide evaluates his own job performance is to tally up the fish count and I don’t have a problem with that per se. But it will be a cold day in hell before Ken Fortenberry is caught using a gawdamn bobber on a fly line. Nothing against those who do, strictly a personal foible, but catching a fish just ain’t all THAT friggin’ important. — Ken Fortenberry- tired of arguing politics, but not tired of arguing
I’ve never been on a guided fishing (or hunting, or anything) trip, but if the client won’t listen, well, what can you do… I have worked as a deckhand on Halibut charters in Alaska, and the first instruction to the clients (known affectionately as ‘pukers’) is to hold the weight when the hook is being baited. It’s often a 2 lb. lead, and holding the hook doesn’t stop it from swinging. Getting beaned by a 2 lb. lead can leave one hell of a goose egg on the ol’ noggin. Still, there’s always a couple of pukers every year that don’t listen–and guess who pays the price… I’ve never used a strike indicator, as such. This past summer, I had the privilege of fishing with Mark Faulkner on Spring Creek near Bellefonte, PA. He introduced me to the ‘dry as an indicator’ method, which seems like a good idea and could catch fish now and then, too. I’ve got a friend who ties his own leaders and uses Stren HiVis Gold for some of the thicker sections of his leaders as a sort of ‘in-line indicator’. In general, though, I’ll have to agree. Bobbers (by any other name, still a bobber) and fly fishing don’t mix. Tom G how about them Nittany Lions, eh? Before you buy.
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But it will be a cold day in hell before Ken Fortenberry is caught using a gawdamn bobber on a fly line.
Why would you use a bobber with a dry? You don’t mean you are nymphing, do you? Why, that’s just like using freeze dried bait<g. — Charlie…
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But it will be a cold day in hell before Ken Fortenberry is caught using a gawdamn bobber on a fly line. Nothing against those who do, strictly a personal foible, but catching a fish just ain’t all THAT friggin’ important.
Yeah but what about those bloody mud sucking fish who don’t show a trace of having taken the fly – or are you only talking about bobbers and not yarn strike indicators. — Ken Fortenberry- tired of arguing politics, but not tired of arguing
Ari Bert Gaelle Bert +27 (0) 83 232 9903 +27 (0) 83 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner +27 (0) 11 447 7230 Shop 94, Admirals Court +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax) Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt www.troutfishing.co.za Street, Rosebank P.O.Box 79067 Senderwood 2145 South Africa
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I use a bivisible about 18" to 2′ up from a dry. These old eyes just can’t see a #22 or #24 midge dry 30" away. Bob in El Paso – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But it will be a cold day in hell before Ken Fortenberry is caught using a gawdamn bobber on a fly line. Why would you use a bobber with a dry? You don’t mean you are nymphing, do you? Why, that’s just like using freeze dried bait<g. — Charlie…
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My, perhaps odd, definitions: strike indicator – anything that indicates a fish has taken a fly – leader, knots, line, floaties – and the fly! especially ones with wings to see for miles. Bobber – a device that suspends a fly at a fixed depth- leader, line, knots, floaties and a fly itself could be in that class (eg: parachute tied apart from body so it suspends body well below film) IMO, leaving floaties out of these groups still leaves a whole lot of strike indicators and bobbers that you are using. If you ever de/grease a leader … Steve (As ever – just tired – apologies if this shows up twice 
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There’s a whole range of "indicators" ranging from a "bobber" to a colored a colored leader link, that I seem to remember you use. The question is how far are you willing to go? A colored leader butt, a smear of flor. putty on the leader knots, a dry fly as an indicator, yarn, cork, foam, etc. etc. etc. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Guiding is a very tough business and dealing with cranks who won’t do as they’re told to catch fish has to be frustrating. I mean, one of the ways that a guide evaluates his own job performance is to tally up the fish count and I don’t have a problem with that per se. But it will be a cold day in hell before Ken Fortenberry is caught using a gawdamn bobber on a fly line. Nothing against those who do, strictly a personal foible, but catching a fish just ain’t all THAT friggin’ important. — Ken Fortenberry- tired of arguing politics, but not tired of arguing
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Ken Fortenberry writes: But it will be a cold day in hell before Ken Fortenberry is caught using a gawdamn bobber on a fly line. Nothing against those who do, strictly a personal foible, but catching a fish just ain’t all THAT friggin’ important.
Man, you’ll say just about *anything* to get in an argument. <g So, tell me, old wise one, how are you going to detect strikes? You *could* watch the end of your floating line, that’ll work. But then you are using *it* as a strike indicator. So, to be a purist, you can not watch your line — it’s a strike indicator. Aha, you will go by feel, right? Well, for every fish you feel take the nymph, 99 have preceeded him. And if you *feel* it, the fish has caught itself; you had nothing to do with it. That ain’t fishing. That’s hookin’! <g Best to stay home and fish parachute Adams. But I am looking forward to seeing you on the SJ. Should be a great time. Dave L.
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Best to stay home and fish parachute Adams. But I am looking forward to seeing you on the SJ. Should be a great time.
We should be able to find some fish midging on the surface or feeding on midge clusters. Willi
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Bob Instead of the #22-24 midges . . . why not go to a Griffets Knat in a 16 or 18. The rationale is that the midges are hatching from egg clusters just under the surface. The GK mimics the dimple of the egg cluster in the meniscus, the fish are usually slurping the egg clusters anyway (not the midges) and ITS BIG EFUFF to SEE. There is no way that #24 is going to look like anything real with the tippit and knot, with any daylight at all. Dave
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Bob Instead of the #22-24 midges . . . why not go to a Griffets Knat in a 16 or 18. The rationale is that the midges are hatching from egg clusters just under the surface. The GK mimics the dimple of the egg cluster in the meniscus, the fish are usually slurping the egg clusters anyway (not the midges) and ITS BIG EFUFF to SEE.
My understanding of midge clusters is that they hatch as individuals and then the clusters are formed when the adults gather in groups in the slow water near the banks. These masses of midges can be VERY large in fertile waters. Current wind etc. will break off parts of these masses and the fish will take these clusters. Sometimes there aren’t enough clusters around for the fish to key into them. Often the fish will key into feeding on individual pupas either in or just under the film. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is no way that #24 is going to look like anything real with the tippit and knot, with any daylight at all. Dave
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But it will be a cold day in hell before Ken Fortenberry is caught using a gawdamn bobber on a fly line. Nothing against those who do, strictly a personal foible, but catching a fish just ain’t all THAT friggin’ important.
I’m on the fence on this one. I far prefer to fish without an indicator, but I will use when I feel it’s warranted. My home water contains a large number of fish that feed on midge larvae. Their take is extremely subtle, and I do often fish for them with an indicator. On the other hand, I fished in Northern New Hampshire for a week, using mainly nymphs, and was quite successful without once using an indicator. Faster water, larger flies, more aggressive fish, all make a difference. I definitely agree that guides rely far to much on using indicators, especially when teaching beginners. Many newbies I’ve observed the past few years never remove the indicator, even when attempting to fish dry. One afternoon in New Hampshire, I was fishing across the stream from a couple who had hired a guide as an instructor. He was spending most of his time with the wife, (big surprise), and had her casting reasonably well with a huge indicator about 3′ above some sort of nymph. After about a half hour, fish began to rise, I tied on a #14 Usual, and caught three or four fish in short order. The guide asked me what I was using, but never once suggested that either one of his sports switch over to a dry. Too bad, because the woman was in a perfect position for a long drift over several good fish. Would have been an ideal opportunity to introduce her to the joys of catching fish on a dry. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"
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But it will be a cold day in hell before Ken Fortenberry is caught using a gawdamn bobber on a fly line. Nothing against those who do, strictly a personal foible, but catching a fish just ain’t all THAT friggin’ important.
I’ve always liked the fact that you and I have similar fishing tastes and likes. However on your upcoming trip to the Juan, and IF the fish are not keying on the emergers in the surface film, you will more than likely be fishing midges in the 22-26 range, a bobber is almost a requirement, along with ability to mend, mend, mend, and then mend again. I spent an entire morning ignoring my guide and a more experienced Juan fisherman, only when I acquiensed and used the indicator could I detect the strikes. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.
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Willi writes: We should be able to find some fish midging on the surface or feeding on midge clusters.
I’m planning on it, Willi. But, after tying some of these iddybiddythingies, I doubt I’ll be able to see ‘em on the water! <g Now, a big old yarn indicator — easy to see!!!!! d;0) Dave
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Willi, Some of my recent tying attempts are #18 Griffith’s Gnats. Are these small enough for the San Juan? I’ve got some #20 and #22 hooks on order just in case. Danl (home today with back spasms. its hell gettin old) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We should be able to find some fish midging on the surface or feeding on midge clusters. Willi
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Guiding is a very tough business and dealing with cranks who won’t do as they’re told to catch fish has to be frustrating. I mean, one of the ways that a guide evaluates his own job performance is to tally up the fish count and I don’t have a problem with that per se. But it will be a cold day in hell before Ken Fortenberry is caught using a gawdamn bobber on a fly line. Nothing against those who do, strictly a personal foible, but catching a fish just ain’t all THAT friggin’ important. — Ken Fortenberry- tired of arguing politics, but not tired of arguing
I’m going to be indelicate again (but not irrelevant) – weren’t you using one of the Muskegon. <g But we drew the line at egg flies, eh? BTW – the P. Charles distinction between bobbers and strike indicators. === A bobber will float your rig, a strike indicator won’t. Peter – the honest broker who admits to using a bobber ’cause he can’t nymph fish worth a shit, especially without one.
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We should be able to find some fish midging on the surface or feeding on midge clusters.
That’s my understanding as well, and one of the reasons I decided to make the trip. Somewhere between France and Urbana is a silk flyline with my name on it. It will be here in time to be spooled up on a Hardy Princess for use on an old Granger Aristocrat. Can’t think of a better place to wet a new flyline for the first time than with a bunch of ROFFians on a world famous trout stream. — Ken Fortenberry
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But it will be a cold day in hell before Ken Fortenberry is caught using a gawdamn bobber on a fly line. Nothing against those who do, strictly a personal foible, but catching a fish just ain’t all THAT friggin’ important.
Ken, please ask Mr. Fortenberry to define "strike indicator" for us if he wouldn’t mind. –Steve
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: So, tell me, old wise one, how are you going to detect strikes? [...] : feel take the nymph, 99 have preceeded him. And if you *feel* it, Ya know, the best of ‘em simply *know* when a fish has taken… JonCook. — Not that I’m one of them, but I bet Willi is
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1. all the pins are down 2. you cross a picket line 3. your nose is bleeding 4. there are lines through all of your letters 5. the player is walking back to the dugout —
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I’m going to be indelicate again (but not irrelevant) – weren’t you using one of the Muskegon. <g
Yes, that was a gift from Herman Nijland, an ingenious piece of work involving a very small metal ring and a piece of yarn, a "hinged leader system" I believe he called it. I still have it somewhere, but it’s not really my cup of tea and I didn’t use it for the steelhead, those I dredged up with a small black stonefly nymph and no indicator. But we drew the line at egg flies, eh?
And the poor guide looked to be close to tears when we told him so. BTW – the P. Charles distinction between bobbers and strike indicators. === A bobber will float your rig, a strike indicator won’t.
As good a distinction as any. If I’m gettin’ skunked and the guide is taking it personally, I could probably be convinced to catch a fish using whatever flyfishing method is legal in that locale. I’m not impervious to a guide’s discomfort, but someone coined a phrase one time about the customer always being right. — Ken Fortenberry
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Regarding the SJ: You’ve got to be pretty damn slick up there to NEVER use an indicator because 1. sometimes the fish are deep and/or the water’s not clear enough to see them 2. their take is notoriously subtle. I use everything from a big yarn ball 11 ft from my flies to a small foam one to a dry fly to nothing, watching for my leader/tippet to straighten. And yes i fish plenty of dries. Hopefully Channer will be there to provide tips to those who don’t want any lead or yarn on their leader. Less discriminating flyfishers can cut a "lifetime supply" of yarn from my spool and follow me. I fish nymphs, dries, and emergers there and with nymphs and emergers and even sometimes dries i’ll have an indicator of some type. Dave, a size 22 with a knot and everything still looks like a midge, and on some days on that river you’ll catch twice as many fish with a 24 and even more on a 26, no kidding. bruce h Before you buy.
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That’s my understanding as well, and one of the reasons I decided to make the trip. Somewhere between France and Urbana is a silk flyline with my name on it. It will be here in time to be spooled up on a Hardy Princess for use on an old Granger Aristocrat. Can’t think of a better place to wet a new flyline for the first time than with a bunch of ROFFians on a world famous trout stream.
Ah, the irony! Striking a blow for Piscatorial Purity — the silk line, the venerable rod and reel, the death-before-strike-indicators stance — on the banks of the San Juan river, a place where flyfishing for trout wouldn’t even exist were it not for that big ole dam and its tailwaterrific releases! Course, I usually wear plus-fours to the mini-golf course , – sid
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Ah, the irony! …
How true. Must be something in the air this fall. Ds arguing for states rights, R’s looking to the federal courts for injunctive relief and yours truly fishin’ a tailwater. Can the apocalypse be far behind ? — Ken Fortenberry
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Willi writes: We should be able to find some fish midging on the surface or feeding on midge clusters. I’m planning on it, Willi. But, after tying some of these iddybiddythingies, I doubt I’ll be able to see ‘em on the water! <g Now, a big old yarn indicator — easy to see!!!!! d;0)
Any surface fishing will probably be to individual fish in slow water areas. It’s best to fish these from upstream letting the fly drift down before the tippet. Even if you can’t see the fly, you have a pretty good idea where it is and you can strike on the take. I’ve only fished the Juan a couple of times but when I did, I found that you could drag your fly directly into the correct feeding lane several feet above the rising fish without disturbing it. The rest is timing the drift, getting a drag free one and having an acceptable fly. The fish don’t get put down easilly and they will give you many chances (which you’ll probably need.) Willi
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Question:
B) It’s been said that large native Battenkill trout are non-existent. HOG-WASH! I submit evidence to the contrary, The photo at…
Actually, what I have heard, is that the ‘average’ size fish, (9"-11" Brookies, and 10"-14" Browns), were in short supply and the bulk of the population were large and small fish. I have never seen many kids fishing the river, and I seriously doubt that a 2 fish limit for them will have a serious impact. The problem will come with enforcement, and the fact that bait fishing is allowed. I think ‘artificials only’ should be the rule wherever fish must be released. Actually, my preference would have been to close the entire stream to *all* usage for one year, assess the results next fall, and formulate new regulations at that time. George Adams
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George’s thought of closing the river for a year is not a bad one but just look at how difficult it has been to get even this modest change enacted. I say modest change because I firmly believe that with the allowance of an 18 inch trout per day a lot of 15+ inch fish will grow rather quickly in the eyes of the angler. We have a modest landlock salmon run out of a resivoir in cenrtal Mass where 2 fish per day over 18 inches are allowed and every year I see numerous sub 18 inch fish being taken out. The problem – no enforecement. Won’t be any different on the B’kill. Lets hope that the high waters this fall result in a good spawn. We’ll have to wait two yrs to find out though and see if we’re catching those 7 to 9 inch browns; which I used to be a master of but have not seen in recent years. Regarding hatch decline I’m not 100% convinced yet that that does not have something to do with the flood / drought cycle of recent yrs. For what it is worth the trico’s were awesome this year and while I was not on hte river I heard that the Hendricksons were quite heavy.
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I would agree with this assessment, in principle. A moratorium may be what is needed. This, ultimately, is what helped the striper fishery recover. Then again, we don’t have a consensus on what is killing the Kill… ACP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – B) It’s been said that large native Battenkill trout are non-existent. HOG-WASH! I submit evidence to the contrary, The photo at… Actually, what I have heard, is that the ‘average’ size fish, (9"-11" Brookies, and 10"-14" Browns), were in short supply and the bulk of the population were large and small fish. I have never seen many kids fishing the river, and I seriously doubt that a 2 fish limit for them will have a serious impact. The problem will come with enforcement, and the fact that bait fishing is allowed. I think ‘artificials only’ should be the rule wherever fish must be released. Actually, my preference would have been to close the entire stream to *all* usage for one year, assess the results next fall, and formulate new regulations at that time. George Adams
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I can attest to great Trico hatches on rivers near the BKill…scores of those little buggers. Personally, I can’t stand fishing those things, but the blue wing olive hatches made up for it! ACP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George’s thought of closing the river for a year is not a bad one but just look at how difficult it has been to get even this modest change enacted. I say modest change because I firmly believe that with the allowance of an 18 inch trout per day a lot of 15+ inch fish will grow rather quickly in the eyes of the angler. We have a modest landlock salmon run out of a resivoir in cenrtal Mass where 2 fish per day over 18 inches are allowed and every year I see numerous sub 18 inch fish being taken out. The problem – no enforecement. Won’t be any different on the B’kill. Lets hope that the high waters this fall result in a good spawn. We’ll have to wait two yrs to find out though and see if we’re catching those 7 to 9 inch browns; which I used to be a master of but have not seen in recent years. Regarding hatch decline I’m not 100% convinced yet that that does not have something to do with the flood / drought cycle of recent yrs. For what it is worth the trico’s were awesome this year and while I was not on hte river I heard that the Hendricksons were quite heavy.
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Hi folks. I am writing with regards to special regulations that have been proposed for the Battenkill in Vermont. As many are aware the fishery has been suffering for the past several years and unfortunately despite efforts by Vermont Fish and Wildlife there has been no definitive causes identified for the decline that has been seen. In order to reduce the decline in the population of the brown trout in the river the state has proposed a 6 yr. no kill regulation that will eliminate or at least minimize the one identifiable factor in the rivers decline; angler harvest. At the same time the state plans to do an extensive study on the river to identify causes for the decline. (This work has already begun with some habitat improvement completed this fall and an evaluation of spawning areas planned for later in the month). A public meeting was held in August and the proposal was by and large favorably received by the public. Yesterday the Fish and Wildlife Board voted on this proposal. It was accepted with two very important amendments that may corrupt the purpose of the no kill proposal. The first is to allow children under the age of 15 to keep two trout of any size per day. The second is to allow any angler to keep one trout per day of 18 inches or larger. An additional vote will be taken (probably in December) to determine the final regulations that will be placed on the river. There are no public hearings scheduled to discuss these two amendments but from what I understand this can be ?forced? upon the board through petition. I will be investigating how to achieve this. In the meantime I would ask that any anglers that are interested in seeing the Battenkill fishery turned around please write a POLITE letter to the following individuals that are members of the F&W Board. David Mallory RD # 1, Box 103 Jericho, VT 05465 John Stannard PO Box 73 Rte 30 Dorset VT 05251 For what it is worth I am not a C&R zealot but I do value the opportunity of catching wild trout and the Battenkill can be turned around. Folks that fish the area around Manchester and Arlington have numerous options when it comes to fishing and there is no shortage of streams and ponds that offer anglers the chance to take home a few fish for dinner. The real question is whether we as sportsman are willing to sacrifice a little bit now to pass along a better resource for the next generations of anglers. We owe it to ourselves and our children to work towards making the river a better stream than it is at the moment. Catch and release is a small price to pay. I hope you’ll support the river by writing to these gentlemen in order to persuade them to reconsider the amendments that have been put forward. For what it is worth regarding kids on the river and the 18 inch fish regulation problem becomes one of enforcement. Dad’s fishin with the kids, they go off to collect rocks and a fish takes. Dad lands the fish and keeps it. Is that legit? Regarding 18 inch fish. I don’t know about you but I can see a lot of guys using their eyes as rulers and then fish from 14 inches on go into the creel. I’ve seen it down here in Mass where we have a salmon run in the fall. A lot of "18 salmon" are taken home that are clearly shy of that. Thanks very much. Doug Lyons
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Some obeservations: 1. The only 1 fish over 18 inches rule is interesting in light of evidence that such fish are basically nonexistent in the B-Kill…indeed, trout over TEN inches are apparently down by 89% in many stretched (Source: Fly Fishing in Northern New England). Thus, my own take is that this will do little to HARM the fishing. 2. I wonder if these, and more restrictions may increase crowds at other nearby rivers, thus creating same problems as those affecting the B-Kill. Perhaps such rules need to to be enforced at all nearby rivers as a preventative? ACP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi folks. I am writing with regards to special regulations that have been proposed for the Battenkill in Vermont. As many are aware the fishery has been suffering for the past several years and unfortunately despite efforts by Vermont Fish and Wildlife there has been no definitive causes identified for the decline that has been seen. In order to reduce the decline in the population of the brown trout in the river the state has proposed a 6 yr. no kill regulation that will eliminate or at least minimize the one identifiable factor in the rivers decline; angler harvest. At the same time the state plans to do an extensive study on the river to identify causes for the decline. (This work has already begun with some habitat improvement completed this fall and an evaluation of spawning areas planned for later in the month). A public meeting was held in August and the proposal was by and large favorably received by the public. Yesterday the Fish and Wildlife Board voted on this proposal. It was accepted with two very important amendments that may corrupt the purpose of the no kill proposal. The first is to allow children under the age of 15 to keep two trout of any size per day. The second is to allow any angler to keep one trout per day of 18 inches or larger. An additional vote will be taken (probably in December) to determine the final regulations that will be placed on the river. There are no public hearings scheduled to discuss these two amendments but from what I understand this can be ?forced? upon the board through petition. I will be investigating how to achieve this. In the meantime I would ask that any anglers that are interested in seeing the Battenkill fishery turned around please write a POLITE letter to the following individuals that are members of the F&W Board. David Mallory RD # 1, Box 103 Jericho, VT 05465 John Stannard PO Box 73 Rte 30 Dorset VT 05251 For what it is worth I am not a C&R zealot but I do value the opportunity of catching wild trout and the Battenkill can be turned around. Folks that fish the area around Manchester and Arlington have numerous options when it comes to fishing and there is no shortage of streams and ponds that offer anglers the chance to take home a few fish for dinner. The real question is whether we as sportsman are willing to sacrifice a little bit now to pass along a better resource for the next generations of anglers. We owe it to ourselves and our children to work towards making the river a better stream than it is at the moment. Catch and release is a small price to pay. I hope you’ll support the river by writing to these gentlemen in order to persuade them to reconsider the amendments that have been put forward. For what it is worth regarding kids on the river and the 18 inch fish regulation problem becomes one of enforcement. Dad’s fishin with the kids, they go off to collect rocks and a fish takes. Dad lands the fish and keeps it. Is that legit? Regarding 18 inch fish. I don’t know about you but I can see a lot of guys using their eyes as rulers and then fish from 14 inches on go into the creel. I’ve seen it down here in Mass where we have a salmon run in the fall. A lot of "18 salmon" are taken home that are clearly shy of that. Thanks very much. Doug Lyons
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Intersesting thoughts. There are still a few good ones swimming the river – a friend took 14 and 15 1/2 brown this past season. A big concern I have is that a lot of eyeball measuring will be going on and the 15 inch trout will be stretched out by overly zealous anglers. Regarding fishing pressure on other streams one has to remember that many such rivers (the Wallumsac comes to mind) are generously supported by stocking.
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Intersesting thoughts. There are still a few good ones swimming the river – a friend took 14 and 15 1/2 brown this past season. A big concern I have is that a lot of eyeball measuring will be going on and the 15 inch trout will be stretched out by overly zealous anglers. Regarding fishing pressure on other streams one has to remember that many such rivers (the Wallumsac comes to mind) are generously supported by stocking.
My take on this whole topic… A) The recently passed regulation is in my opinion a giant step. While probably not the ultimate solution, it certainly is a beginning. Total C&R would be better…FF only would be better…river usage changes pertaining to canoes and tubes would be better…but it’s a good start! I certainly predict the sighting of more youths astream…still that’s ok…a two fish limit between dad and youngster is fine by me. Plus it propogates a continuence of the sport amongst the next generation. B) It’s been said that large native Battenkill trout are non-existent. HOG-WASH! I submit evidence to the contrary, The photo at… <http://www.virtualflybox.com/photos/bkill_brn.shtml …refutes this opinion. I took this photo late last summer and in addition to this fish I have first hand accountings of trout of these proportions having been caught on these fabled waters. C) As to increased fishing pressure on local waters…that will only be caused by the locals…who are, I’m sure already there, due to the recent decline of the fishery on the Battenkill. D) Future regulatory thoughts have to consider things like the impact caused by non-fishing river usage, changes in the chemical runoffs, landowner riverside impacts, etc. I personally can attest to a huge change in the insect activity on this river. The Caddis hatches used to be legendary…now they are quite rare. The Battenkill has not seen a stockery of fish in over thirty years and has until recently been a prime fishery. Only in the last ten years has there been a major decline…so the reason for that must be determined and solved. But quickly! keep tyin’…byard * * * * * * * * * V I R T U A L F L Y B O X * * * * * * * * * Fly Tyers Worldwide * Hundreds of Patterns * Tying Instructions http://www.VirtualFlybox.com * * * * F E A T U R I N G * 9 8 0 * P A T T E R N S * * * *
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Happy New Year to all my fellow Fisher-people. This light spinning tackle inshore salt water fisherman is ready to learn how to fish with a fly rod. I am looking for a 9ft 8wt fly rod that will be my learning rod. My question then is… How good are Cabela’s saltwater Fly rod blanks? How Bout the SL or FT blanks? How would these compare to the GLoomis GL3 blanks? Or is there a better route to take, maybe a fly rod combo set-up for saltwater. What do I need to look for when picking out a fly reel? Is there one type/model/construction/drag that would be advantageous over another? Thanks, Jay
Jay I can’t talk about Cabela’s, I don’t use their stuff, but I have used a Loomis GL3 8/9 weight 9 foot megataper saltwater rod for the past two years. Unlike other salties, it has a soft tip that makes it useful for salmon, steelhead, bass, pike etc. (my type of fishing.) The usual salty is a broomstick, designed to put a lot of leverage on a fish. Generally, they are brute force canons capable of great distances but pathetic to cast with any finesse. They don’t really begin to load until you’ve got 30-40 foot of line beyond the tiptop. The GL3 8/9 is an exception, capable of delicate short casts, yet can match distance with any of them. Good diameter butt section for strength. Very light, which is very important at the end of a long day. At 3.85 ounces, there are 6 and 7 weights that weigh more. I was recently fishing for steelhead with another fishermen who was using an Orvis Trident salty. He fishes salt frequently, and he made the same comments to me, as we compared rods. I found his rod difficult to cast well, probably would be very difficult for a beginner. On the other hand, my GL3 8/9 feels like a nice trout 6 weight, very easy to cast. A good reel match for the GL3 8/9 is the Lamson 3.5. Tough reel, good drag, balances out the GL3 8/9 beautifully, tons of room for backing. Peter
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Happy New Year to all my fellow Fisher-people. This light spinning tackle inshore salt water fisherman is ready to learn how to fish with a fly rod. I am looking for a 9ft 8wt fly rod that will be my learning rod. My question then is… How good are Cabela’s saltwater Fly rod blanks? How Bout the SL or FT blanks? How would these compare to the GLoomis GL3 blanks? Or is there a better route to take, maybe a fly rod combo set-up for saltwater. What do I need to look for when picking out a fly reel? Is there one type/model/construction/drag that would be advantageous over another? Thanks, Jay
I know I’ll eat some flames for this but I would recommend getting one of the Orvis Clearwater combos. I think the 8wt goes for about $180.00 and it is ready to fish. I own one and it casts nice, and can double as a steelhead/salmon rod when you are in the mood. -John — My Policy is to ALWAYS Blame the Computer
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Anything Cabela’s sells is usually very good and they give you a 100% satisfaction guaranty. Joel Axelrad
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Happy New Year to all my fellow Fisher-people. This light spinning tackle inshore salt water fisherman is ready to learn how to fish with a fly rod. I am looking for a 9ft 8wt fly rod that will be my learning rod. My question then is… How good are Cabela’s saltwater Fly rod blanks? How Bout the SL or FT blanks? How would these compare to the GLoomis GL3 blanks? Or is there a better route to take, maybe a fly rod combo set-up for saltwater. What do I need to look for when picking out a fly reel? Is there one type/model/construction/drag that would be advantageous over another? Thanks, Jay
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