Question:

Back legs extended, front claws out – Back Scratcher. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply. Another cat person – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On its back legs up … magazine rack that doesn’t scuff the covers. Steve (Actually a cat person … especially Abyssinians)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, evidently Mr. Reid did, though it bears mentioning that Mr. Reid implies (at least) that he has no memory or knowledge of having said anything that would indicate that he did.  On the other hand, Mr. Reid would, we hope, certainly deny that he made any such denial, especially in light of the documentary record plainly demonstrating the utter absence of any such denial.  Meanwhile, Mr. Reid, having recently returned to the fold, is up to his old tricks vis a vis objectors objecting to objections, while simultaneously and vehemently objecting to the notion that he ever left in the first place.  The careful reader will, of course, not be fooled by any of the foregoing as it clear, plain, and uncategorically inarguable that that couldn’t possibly have happened given the time constraints and the relative implausibility of Mr. Reid’s simultaneous cohabitation in more than roughly three planes at any given moment.  Hope this clears things up. Hum? Wolfgang

Cool, I know drugs kicked in ’cause I totally grokked that.  BTW, am I in New Zealand or Maryland today? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

[gross humour snipped] Which begs the question, was it a case of mistaken identity or … Steve

Response:

[gross humour snipped] Which begs the question, was it a case of mistaken identity or … Steve

Being too drunk, high, stoned etc. to know what you were doing . . . Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Well, evidently Mr. Reid did, though it bears mentioning that Mr. Reid implies (at least) that he has no memory or knowledge of having said anything that would indicate that he did.  On the other hand, Mr. Reid would, we hope, certainly deny that he made any such denial, especially in light of the documentary record plainly demonstrating the utter absence of any such denial.  Meanwhile, Mr. Reid, having recently returned to the fold, is up to his old tricks vis a vis objectors objecting to objections, while simultaneously and vehemently objecting to the notion that he ever left in the first place.  The careful reader will, of course, not be fooled by any of the foregoing as it clear, plain, and uncategorically inarguable that that couldn’t possibly have happened given the time constraints and the relative implausibility of Mr. Reid’s simultaneous cohabitation in more than roughly three planes at any given moment.  Hope this clears things up.  Hum? Wolfgang who, becoming hopelessly confused anent who is likely to do how much damage to whom under which circumstances and when, is giving serious consideration to kicking his own ass this weekend and being done with it!    :(

You planning on any ice skating judging in the next little while? Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Hey Op, I’m in for c-note.  Does this mean YOU are coming to the Penn’s clave? Gonna make it to the presentation? john

Whether I make it to the Penn’s ‘Clave is a matter to be determined.  Still waitin’ to hear from Mr. Fortenberry.  ’Course he may never have seen my post on the subject, as he has me blocked and all, and in that case if I don’t hear back from him within two weeks of the ‘clave I will attend, come hell of high water. I will attend the presentation, as long as it doesn’t involve you and an out door shower! Op

Response:

A LIAR AND THOSE WHO MAKE THREATS CANNOT BE TRUSTED: You are known for your lies and that you cannot be trusted.  Even this message of yours must be reported to the authorities Mike Connor and all of this is of your doing. It is time Klaus does something positive about you because his trust in you has been violated as you have indeed violated Roff and many of its’ members. You must be stopped before you do something very, very stupid. It is time to post every negative thought, every negative deed, every name calling post you send to Roff.  Until you stop your insane conduct, every abuse you bestow upon the American Fly Fishing Scene will be reported until you stop. Do you understand this Mike Connor? George Gehrke "it’s time to police your pathetic conduct Connor"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I pledge $100.00 to Mike’s trip across the water, but only if he will spend his time at a ‘clave over here.  Any ‘clave will do, but wouldn’t it be nice if he made an appearance at the Penn’s ‘Clave! Mike, please don’t waste your time and energy on confronting an obviously deranged individual.  I honestly don’t think George can help himself.  I have no doubt that the rest of the folks pledging funds would rather see you in the flesh fishin’, than see you on the back pages of some local paper’s arrest report.  Do you realize how much satisfaction George would get from you being hauled off to an *American* jail, before you ever got to lay a finger on him? Anyway, hope to meet ya some day, at a ‘clave! Op  –eternal optimist– Well Op, that is very kind of you, and I appreciate the sentiment, but I don

Question:

I have been reading many of the long threads on this newgroup and I have just one question: How do so many of you know each other so well?? Just curious. Dustin

Response:

Hang around for a while. Participate, argue, share ideas, get out on a limb, be an asshole, get huffy, find out you don’t know it all, etc.. The fairly normal way people get to know something of one another outside of family. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been reading many of the long threads on this newgroup and I have just one question: How do so many of you know each other so well?? Just curious. Dustin

Response:

I have been reading many of the long threads on this newgroup and I have just one question: How do so many of you know each other so well?? Just curious. Dustin

        because roff is darwinian. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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I have been reading many of the long threads on this newgroup and I have just one question: How do so many of you know each other so well?? Just curious. Dustin         because roff is darwinian. wayno

______  Roffians are all psychologists who have wives that can’t keep secrets?

Response:

        because roff is darwinian. wayno

actually wayno… it’s dahlwhinnian –waldo — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

I have been reading many of the long threads on this newgroup and I have just one question: How do so many of you know each other so well?? Just curious.

It’s just a matter of time.   There are quite a few "regulars" who post here frequently.   After reading a few thousand posts, you get a pretty good feel for who is intelligent, cultured, experienced, helpful or otherwise.   In reading the discussions, you’ll see who puts forth substantial, well-reasoned arguments and who is just a rectum.   Throughout the course of these exchanges over a wide variety of topics, you also pick up some personal information such as where we live, who is married, what we like to eat (and drink, especially drink), and what we drive.   A while back, there was even a "Who Am I" thread where many ng members abandoned their cyber anonymity and offered a short bio. The friendships (and disagreements) which have grown here at our individual keyboards also led to a ROFF conclave in May of this year where many heretofore unaquainted ROFFians actually met on the streams of North Carolina for a week of fishing, drinking, male bonding, and a few other things I’m not sure about.   Those fortunate few who attended now have faces to match the screen names and forged new friendships and respect.   (I regret I was not among them.) There’s a fine bunch of fellows here; and even if I don’t know what they look like, I’d be pleased to wet a line or quench my thirst with any of ‘em. Joe Fleischman Bel Air, MD (See, you learned something about me.)

Response:

I have been reading many of the long threads on this newgroup and I have just one question: How do so many of you know each other so well?? Just curious. It’s just a matter of time.   There are quite a few "regulars" who post here frequently.   After reading a few thousand posts, you get a pretty good

feel     (meaningful response snipped) Joe Fleischman Bel Air, MD (See, you learned something about me.)

    i didn’t know you were a doctor from los angeles! wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

   i didn’t know you were a doctor from los angeles!

LOL.   For a while, I was often mistaken for a TV doctor in Alaska. Joe

Response:

Or you could go to the clave and meet face to face. Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hang around for a while. Participate, argue, share ideas, get out on a limb, be an asshole, get huffy, find out you don’t know it all, etc.. The fairly normal way people get to know something of one another outside of family. Dave I have been reading many of the long threads on this newgroup and I have just one question: How do so many of you know each other so well?? Just curious. Dustin

Response:

We have the same interest. Fly Fishing and Fly Tying. Thus , we know each other. Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been reading many of the long threads on this newgroup and I have just one question: How do so many of you know each other so well?? Just curious. Dustin

Response:

yea, Big Dale, but what about the parties you get to and the controlled substances that keep coming your way.  There is an upside, you know.  Except, of course, at the Almond Boat Dock, where it’s your soul they want to save. Mark Faulkner

Mark, We all missed you at the wed, thur, and fri eve prayer meetins’. Heard tell you were at that house of sin, that den of depravity, that fuliginous pavillion on the isthmus of time, little waynos   waldo It could be worse Joe…I am still mistaken for Jerry Garcia, which realy bothers me because I thought he was STILL DEAD!!!!! Big Dale

– Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

Big Dale stroked. "It could be worse Joe…I am still mistaken for Jerry Garcia" Long silence. Fire on the mountain. I’ll keep that in my head today as the Western Slope is ablaze and the USFS helicopters fill the air. No doubt of some powerful orange sunsets this evening. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

substances that keep coming your way.  

Sorry to disappoint you Mark,but I gave up the controlled substances over 25 years ago. I was always more into the wacky weed way back in my hippie days. I still enjoy the parties, but depend mostly on import beers, single malts, and sucking on a big bottle of gin.  On another subject it seems to me that the guy that got out of rehab and took up flyfishing and fly tying and reported that it was only slightly more expensive than drugs was still extremely naive. Big Dale

Response:

We have the same interest. Fly Fishing and Fly Tying. Thus , we know each other. Paul

        ok, asadi, that "paul" disguise don’t fool ol’ wayno… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

yea, Big Dale, but what about the parties you get to and the controlled substances that keep coming your way.  There is an upside, you know.  Except, of course, at the Almond Boat Dock, where it’s your soul they want to save. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It could be worse Joe…I am still mistaken for Jerry Garcia, which realy bothers me because I thought he was STILL DEAD!!!!! Big Dale

Response:

It could be worse Joe…I am still mistaken for Jerry Garcia, which realy bothers me because I thought he was STILL DEAD!!!!! Big Dale

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Question:

  text_html_part

4K Download

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Doesn’t work for me. — <*))))< Paul Phillips Director of Operations Fintastic Fish Mounts http://www.fintastic.com/

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Is there any chance you could post your web page on the actual web? This is the Usenet. Sheesh! : <HTML : <head : <titleConsumer Outdoors</title : <meta name=3D"author" content=3D"Garrie McDonald" <snipped a bunch of html crap —                        http://members.tripod.com/~trunculo/index

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Question:

Hi: hope to be in Key West 8/16 and 17.  I’m looking for a guide to take me inshore flyfishing.  I’ve been to Belize many times, but never to KW. would appreciate any suggestions and would also like to know if it is worth it in the summer heat.  I don’t mind the heat, but are the fish there? Adam

Hi Adam, I would call Nat Ragland as he will give you the straight scoop. 305/743-5806 Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

Try Florida Keys On-Line Guide. They have information about everything you could imagine in the keys.  I found it using Yahoo but you might be able to get the URL from any Chamber of Commerce in the Keys (I think there are 3 or 4) – all of them have 800 numbers as well.

: Hi: : hope to be in Key West 8/16 and 17.  I’m looking for a guide to take me : inshore flyfishing.  I’ve been to Belize many times, but never to KW. : would appreciate any suggestions and would also like to know if it is : worth it in the summer heat.  I don’t mind the heat, but are the fish : there? : Adam : : Hi Adam, : I would call Nat Ragland as he will give you the straight scoop. 305/743-5806 : Bill Kiene : Kiene’s Fly Shop : Sacramento,CA,USA : 800/4000FLY — Lori Dubay

Response:

Hi: hope to be in Key West 8/16 and 17.  I’m looking for a guide to take me inshore flyfishing.  I’ve been to Belize many times, but never to KW. would appreciate any suggestions and would also like to know if it is worth it in the summer heat.  I don’t mind the heat, but are the fish there? Adam

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Question:

[rip...] Boulder: A prime reason to resume above-ground nuclear weapons testing.

What do you think Rocky Flats is there for ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

I have a good friend who is going to the Boulder, CO, area around Labor Day and would like to know what’s available for fly fishing.  Do you have any information on rivers/streams and guide services?  Any information would be appreciated.  Thanks.

Response:

I have a good friend who is going to the Boulder, CO, area around Labor Day and would like to know what’s available for fly fishing.  Do you have any information on rivers/streams and guide services?  Any information would be appreciated.  Thanks.

if you read john gierach, you would get a pretty good idea of what the area is like…it is his haunt and he does talk about it a lot… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

I have a good friend who is going to the Boulder, CO, area around Labor Day and would like to know what’s available for fly fishing.  Do you have any information on rivers/streams and guide services?  Any information would be appreciated.  Thanks. Saw Hill Ponds, off 75th st. in Boulder.  Big bluegill and lots of bass, some very large.  I know it ain’t trout, but the panfish action will be great this time of year.  Tell him to walk to the back ponds. JE

Response:

: I have a good friend who is going to the Boulder, CO, area around Labor : Day and would like to know what’s available for fly fishing.  Do you have : any information on rivers/streams and guide services?  Any information : would be appreciated.  Thanks. Right under the library downtown.  I believe I’ve seen that big fish from Vail there… I guess it makes road trips.  (Will I ever stop flogging this horse?) — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

: I have a good friend who is going to the Boulder, CO, area around Labor : Day and would like to know what’s available for fly fishing.  Do you have : any information on rivers/streams and guide services?  Any information : would be appreciated.  Thanks. Right under the library downtown.  I believe I’ve seen that big fish from Vail there… I guess it makes road trips.  (Will I ever stop flogging this horse?)

If you go under the library, or downstream at the observatory, make sure it is well after midnight…those literary types get all bent out of shape when you creel a couple for dinner in front of them… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

: I have a good friend who is going to the Boulder, CO, area around Labor : Day and would like to know what’s available for fly fishing.  Do you have : any information on rivers/streams and guide services?  Any information : would be appreciated.  Thanks. Right under the library downtown.  I believe I’ve seen that big fish from Vail there… I guess it makes road trips.  (Will I ever stop flogging this horse?) If you go under the library, or downstream at the observatory, make sure it is well after midnight…those literary types get all bent out of shape when you creel a couple for dinner in front of them…

I would not try to smoke any tobacco products either.  They get pretty testy about that shit.  Noone will bug you if you decide to spark up a Fat One:-) though, in fact they may want to join you. I would also avoid taking dumpsters, lighting them on fire, and then rolling them down The Hill at policemen. You can, however, get away with murder in that town.  If you do kill someone, the police will posture for months and then bust some poor homeless guy on drugs instead. Boulder: A prime reason to resume above-ground nuclear weapons testing. </chaz

Response:

Question:

Who knows the secret formula for homemade floatant.  There was this guide in Montana who had some incredible stuff, but he wouldn’t tell me what the contents were.

Response:

Who knows the secret formula for homemade floatant.  There was this guide in Montana who had some incredible stuff, but he wouldn’t tell me what the contents were.

I’ve found that disolving some bees wax in alcohol or naptha and then soaking your fly in it after you tie it will give it some excellent floating characteristics.  Don’t know about re-constituting the fly on the stream with the same stuff.  You can get bees wax by buying some ‘Sno Seal’, a product for waterproofing shoes.

Response:

Who knows the secret formula for homemade floatant.  There was this guide in Montana who had some incredible stuff, but he wouldn’t tell me what the contents were.

Hi Ron For years I used unscented Albolene liquifying cleanser available in the beauty aids section of most drug stores.  A 6oz tub cost about $4.00.   The ingredients are listed as follows: Mineral oil, petrolatum, paraffin, ceresin, carotene Instead of buying all that stuff to make your own, why not just buy a many years supply alread mixed? Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

How about some Montana freemen, Tim? They’re coming to take you away, they’re coming to take you away, oh boy. Don B. FREEMEN? Aren’t those the guys that just got put in jail? Bronco

Jail? We don’t have jails anymore. They’re going to urban recreation centers. <g Don B.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How about some Montana freemen, Tim? They’re coming to take you away, they’re coming to take you away, oh boy. Don B. FREEMEN? Aren’t those the guys that just got put in jail? Bronco Jail? We don’t have jails anymore. They’re going to urban recreation centers. <g

That’s true and just think of how many Adams you could tie doing 5-10. TimW

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How about some Montana freemen, Tim? They’re coming to take you away, they’re coming to take you away, oh boy. Don B. FREEMEN? Aren’t those the guys that just got put in jail? Bronco Jail? We don’t have jails anymore. They’re going to urban recreation centers. <g That’s true and just think of how many Adams you could tie doing 5-10. TimW

The problem is making good hooks from spoons! Musconet

Response:

Just received Orvis’s gift and clothing catalog. There is an African American model on just about every other page. It may not be their fishing catalog, but it goes to show that they are not racist. Lets hope that this dispenses with this valuable but(now)tiresome thread that has occupied so much of the bandwidth on ROFF over the last few weeks.

Yeah…but I saw NO asians pal !  Damned if there wasn’t a SINGLE Aleut ! Can you beleive that ?!?!?  And Mongols…? Ha ! nowhere in sight… you know what, I saw no dwarves or midgets eithers… Orvis, those Eskimidgetmongolphobic bastards… TimW

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Seriously…no midgets!!! God that makes me angry. I’m going to write Perk Perkins and give that bastard hell.

Response:

Just received Orvis’s gift and clothing catalog. There is an African American model on just about every other page. It may not be their fishing catalog, but it goes to show that they are not racist. Lets hope that this dispenses with this valuable but(now)tiresome thread that has occupied so much of the bandwidth on ROFF over the last few weeks.

Response:

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Oh Well….. Just received Orvis’s gift and clothing catalog. There is an African American model on just about every other page. It may not be their fishing catalog, but it goes to show that they are not racist. Lets hope that this dispenses with this valuable but(now)tiresome thread that has occupied so much of the bandwidth on ROFF over the last few weeks. Yeah…but I saw NO asians pal !  Damned if there wasn’t a SINGLE Aleut ! Can you beleive that ?!?!?  And Mongols…? Ha ! nowhere in sight… you know what, I saw no dwarves or midgets eithers… Orvis, those Eskimidgetmongolphobic bastards… TimW

Response:

Just received Orvis’s gift and clothing catalog. There is an African American model on just about every other page. It may not be their fishing catalog, but it goes to show that they are not racist. Lets hope that this dispenses with this valuable but(now)tiresome thread that has occupied so much of the bandwidth on ROFF over the last few weeks.

I totally agree!  I used to live near Manchester, VT and got to know many of the Orvis people (I also did some of the catalog photography). They’re nice people and _not_ racist, like most people aren’t. Jim Benenson Los Alamos, NM "To save your rivers, save your mountains" Emperor Yu of China, circa 1600 BC

Response:

Just received Orvis’s gift and clothing catalog. There is an African American model on just about every other page. It may not be their fishing catalog, but it goes to show that they are not racist. Lets hope that this dispenses with this valuable but(now)tiresome thread that has occupied so much of the bandwidth on ROFF over the last few weeks.

Maybe it also shows that they read r.o.f.f…. — Richard W. (Dick) Lander; sportsman, Macintosh devotee, proponent of personal liberty. *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *

Response:

Just received Orvis’s gift and clothing catalog. There is an African American model on just about every other page. It may not be their fishing catalog, but it goes to show that they are not racist. Lets hope that this dispenses with this valuable but(now)tiresome thread that has occupied so much of the bandwidth on ROFF over the last few weeks.

AMEN!!!       Gene

Response:

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just received Orvis’s gift and clothing catalog. There is an African American model on just about every other page. It may not be their fishing catalog, but it goes to show that they are not racist. Lets hope that this dispenses with this valuable but(now)tiresome thread that has occupied so much of the bandwidth on ROFF over the last few weeks. Yeah…but I saw NO asians pal !  Damned if there wasn’t a SINGLE Aleut ! Can you beleive that ?!?!?  And Mongols…? Ha ! nowhere in sight… you know what, I saw no dwarves or midgets eithers… Orvis, those Eskimidgetmongolphobic bastards… TimW

How about some Montana freemen, Tim? They’re coming to take you away, they’re coming to take you away, oh boy. Don B.

Response:

This is my first post to a newsgroup, so bear with me if I blunder. I attempted, with little success, to tie a Dark Hendrickson Nymph this evening.  All aspects of tying the fly are understandable, and I am able to accomplish them except dubbing.  Is this a concept with which most beginners (like myself) have trouble? Specifically, I cannot get the Muskrat fur to "adhere" to the thread.  I use dubbing wax and dab the fur onto it, but it never gets thick enough to tighten into something that will form the body/thorax. Can someone provide some much-needed advice/hints on how I can make this happen? Thanks in advance…

Response:

. . . Specifically, I cannot get the Muskrat fur to "adhere" to the thread.  I use dubbing wax and dab the fur onto it, but it never gets thick enough to tighten into something that will form the body/thorax.

There are several different methods, described in books by Eric Leiser, Poul Jorgensen, Peter Gathercole etc. e.g. single thread or double loop (chenille) depending on factors like your thread (silk or nylon or polyester) and aims:  so feel free to experiment, if you cannot get to the library.   E.g. you can sprinkle cut fur on a clean cloth on your knee, take a separate piece of waxed thread, and roll it on the fur until it picks up a smooth "sausage" of dubbing.  If your dubbing goes onto the nymph but fails to stay on, counter-winding with self-coloured ribbing may be all you need. Some people tie successfully without ever using wax, especially wets because they should sink, not float.  Saliva holds many furs well enough to many threads. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This is my first post to a newsgroup, so bear with me if I blunder. I attempted, with little success, to tie a Dark Hendrickson Nymph this evening.  All aspects of tying the fly are understandable, and I am able to accomplish them except dubbing.  Is this a concept with which most beginners (like myself) have trouble? Specifically, I cannot get the Muskrat fur to "adhere" to the thread. I use dubbing wax and dab the fur onto it, but it never gets thick enough to tighten into something that will form the body/thorax. Can someone provide some much-needed advice/hints on how I can make this happen? Thanks in advance…

  Try spinning the dubbing onto the thread.  Dabbing creates a spikey dubbed body.  Try this – dab the fur onto the waxed thread, and pinch the dubbing between your forefinger and thumb and spin the fur onto the line.  Be careful to spin in one direction only.  this should create a nicely formed "noodle" which you then wind on. You can also form the "noodle" loosely, before dabbing.  lay out the fur (or better a mixture of several colors layered, then pinch it onto the thread, and wind on. This gives you a nicely mottled thorax. good luck,

Response:

Specifically, I cannot get the Muskrat fur to "adhere" to the thread.  I use dubbing wax and dab the fur onto it, but it never gets thick enough to tighten into something that will form the body/thorax.

Gary, In addition to the suggestions made by J. J. Gordon, you might want to try using a dubbing loop:  Form a loop of thread that is several inches long at the rear of the fly.  Wind the bobbin to the front of the fly where the dubbing will end.  Hang a dubbing twister on the end of the loop.  I made a simple dubbling twister using a couple of paper clips and a bell sinker–it’s essentially a hook of wire with a weight.  Wax the loop and place the dubbing in the loop.  Spin the twister until the dubbing has formed a chenille-like strand of the desired tightness.  If you "twang" the thread as you are twisting it, hair-type dubbing will tend to stand out more, making a more "spiky" body.  Then just wind the loop onto the hook like chenille and tie it off. I’ve found loops to be easier to handle than the single thread methods. Good luck! –Stephen Wong P.S. You might want to check out the flytying newsgroup: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying.

Response:

How about some Montana freemen, Tim? They’re coming to take you away, they’re coming to take you away, oh boy. Don B. FREEMEN? Aren’t those the guys that just got put in jail? Bronco

Response:

Geecee, Dubbing’s a bitch for beginners. Just keep at it, soon you will be able to do it without wax. Suggestion: after dubbing onto a single thread, loop back to the body of the hook. Then twist the bottom of the newly formed loop. That tends to hold the dubbing on the thread snugly. Bronco

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. . . Specifically, I cannot get the Muskrat fur to "adhere" to the thread.  I use dubbing wax and dab the fur onto it, but it never gets thick enough to tighten into something that will form the body/thorax.

I have never used wax… well, except to experiment. I just pull off the bits of muskrat and make certain I didn’t also pull off some hide . Then, while holding it between my index finger and thumb, I roll it around the thread. You can add as much or as little as you want and there is no waste. If you roll it loosely, it sticks out and is nice and buggy looking. If you roll it tightly, it looks more like a dry fly dubbing job. Maybe I am being too vague about my technique… I pull the hairs off with the standard thumb and forefinger method any child would employ. Grab some and pull. Then I kind of slide the tying thread into the hairs (parallel to the hairs) and start to roll my fingers as though I was trying to twist the thread one way, then the other. I work my fingers up and down the thread to evenly distribute the hair quantity and this also allows me to taper the body quite well. I can adjust the weight of the bug by changing how much hair I put on at a time. Less hair means more thread and more wraps, more weight and more strength to the finished fly but the body is also harder when the fish bites. Opinions may fly rampant here but the fish never seem to comment on it one way or the other. Hope this helps, David Buschhorn Known on IRC as "Dubbing"

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writes: Can someone provide some much-needed advice/hints on how I can make this happen?

    Everybody’s right and nobody’s wrong on this.  I don’t think any two tyers do this exactly the same way.  I prefer the single thread to the loop for most patterns, but that’s me.  I’m also not as good or consistent as I may sound in postings.  My hint: put a big hook in the vise and work on dubbing for an hour without trying to tie a fly.  Try different threads, waxes, furs, and methods.  Your way will come to you.  In the long run it will save you time and frustration.  Also, join us on ROFFT — good stuff every day, all are welcome.   –Roger

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In addition to the other methods you may want to look at the thread you are using and the way you apply the wax. If you are using a pre-waxed thread there is no need to add wax to the thread. Instead put the wax on your fingers. Most of the times that I have seen people having problems with dubbing it has been fixed by keeping the fingers dry a bit of low tack wax works well.

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Question:

FFers, Anyone know if it is possible to catch charr on fly gear? Here in Scotland we have large populations of char in many of the large, nutrient poor, highland lochs. Charr are the major food of the large piscivorous Ferox trout. Of course the Loch Ness Monster eats charr too Pete Marrow work: http://ui.nmh.ac.uk/gsrg.html play: http://www.gorp.com/gorp/activity/scottish_ff_faq.htm

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Anyone know if it is possible to catch charr on fly gear? Here in Scotland we have large populations of char in many of the large, nutrient poor, highland lochs. Charr are the major food of the large piscivorous Ferox trout.

In 1910, P.D. Malloch wrote about fly fishing for charr in Scotland.  The largest he saw was a 2-1/2 pound fish from Loch Ericht.  "At one time Loch Leven contained char of a large size, many of them weighing 2 to 3 lbs., but they are no longer found there… Altogether it is a very beautiful fish…The best time to fish for char is on quiet evenings, when they can sometimes be seen rising to small flies.  The angler’s flies should be allowed to sink and then drawn quietly along." – P.D. Malloch, _Life History and Habits of the Salmon, Sea-trout and Other Freshwater Fish_, A.&C. Black, London, 1910 and 1912 editions. I have fished for landlocked Arctic charr in similar, nutrient-poor lakes in northern Alaska.  The biggest one I caught, a male, measured 19 inches. Fish of ten to twelve inches in length were more typical.  They could be caught on dry flies, particularly during a caddis hatch, but soft-hackled wet flies, nymphs and very small streamers or bucktails often worked better. Woods Hole, MA   USA

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Pete, In Alaska we routinely catch Char on flies in the Northern part of the state.  I have taken them on streamers and nymphs with good success.  Since they are like a large Dolly Varden, I fish them in the same fashion. — Gene Dobrzynski, Eagle River, Alaska

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – FFers, Anyone know if it is possible to catch charr on fly gear? Here in Scotland we have large populations of char in many of the large, nutrient poor, highland lochs. Charr are the major food of the large piscivorous Ferox trout. Of course the Loch Ness Monster eats charr too Pete Marrow work: http://ui.nmh.ac.uk/gsrg.html play: http://www.gorp.com/gorp/activity/scottish_ff_faq.htm

In "Fly Rod and Reel" april 1994, there is a fantastic article on Char and Flies.  If you can’t find it, I have a copy, and could pr= obably send you a copt in exchange for a fly.

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Artic Char in rivers are exceedingly easy to catch on a fly rod..  Use small #6 to #8 streamers with a silver body and blue and white top dressing and the Char usually go nuts..I have done this in Alaska, Tree River NWT, and an unnamed river flowing into Hudson Bay.   Are You sure your Char are not land locked Dollie Vqarden Trout….?    It takes a

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Question:

Several of us are trying to get a Chat Room set up on Prodigy and a conference room on AOL so that we can talk with each other, tell or stories about the one that gotr away or what ever. To do this we need to show interest. If your into this and subscribe to Prodigy or AOL let me know and I’ll pass the info on Thanks Fishing the Green in Utah

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Several of us are trying to get a Chat Room set up on Prodigy and a conference room on AOL so that we can talk with each other, tell or stories about the one that gotr away or what ever. To do this we need to show interest. If your into this and subscribe to Prodigy or AOL let me know and I’ll pass the info on.

You might consider getting in contact with Alan Dechovitz on AOL, his handle is Caribe Duo. He already runs two nets a month. Currently they are held on the first tuesday and third sunday on each month. He is expanding the net to include guest speakers for Febuary and March. See ya, Bob

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INTERESTED

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I am on AOL. My screen name is Fishingfly. From S.E. Idaho. I am very interested in a chat. Also holding Eastern Idaho fly tying expo in Pocatello on April 8 at the Quality Inn. 70 top tyers from the west  

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interested in this

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I am AOL my screen name is Fishingfly. My name is Chuck Collins. I am from Pocatello, Idaho. Would be interested in Chat.

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Hi E.- I’m currently on Compuserve and AOL in a comparison mode.  My current thinking is AOl between the two but I am seriously condidering Internet instead of either of them.  Cheaper for me thru the U of Minn connection. However, I am always interested in talking flyfishing and I may stay with AOL.  CIS is just too damned expensive  -  almost twice the hourly cost for chat lines or BBS’s. I’ll be watching to see if you get something going. John Bjostad in Mpls

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Prefer CompuServe.

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Im interested my screen name is VinceT1027 contact me on AOL!!!

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sounds like a good idea let me know if it gets going

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im interested. im a ff. i sub to aol.

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i work for mk.  i am in seattle. im a ff. i would very much like a chat line in aol.  i am learning ff.

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An AOL chat line sounds good to me. You can get a rise out of me at tight lines! the bobinator   The Bobinator

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Yes This would be great so that we could pass informatiom around on where it is hot and where it is not.

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I’m interested, MG caddis

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I’m definitely interested. On AOL.  From MA.  Both fresh and salywater flyfishing.  Let me Know how it works out.                                                              Feltsole

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Ready any evening.

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Several of us are trying to get a Chat Room set up on Prodigy and a conference room on AOL so that we can talk with each other, tell or stories about the one that gotr away or what ever. To do this we need to show interest. If your into this and subscribe to Prodigy or AOL let me know and I’ll pass the info on.

As a subscriber of prodigy, please enter my interest in a bb or chat – great idea!

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I would really enjoy a conference room on AOL. Contact me when something develops. Thanks, PresG

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My screen name is DON1RENO I am interested in a room and maybe holding some seminars or workshops online for those hideous nights after work

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For all who wanted a Chat Room. AOL Keyword GS OTHER, Enter "Other Sports", highlight Chat Rooms, Choose Sports Rooms and then enter "Sideline" I’m not real sure what goes on in sidelines, but lets meet there Sat. evening at around 9:00PM EST. If need be, maybe we’ll just have to take it over for awhile. I want to thank all of you for your help and support in this, I’ve had about 40 replys. Thjanks

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Tight Lines and Screaming Reels Southern Style! Let me know Phil B.

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MartinR100 at AOL, would be interested.

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you got a rise out of me. i would like to be able to have real-time conversations on aol with persons who are hooked on flyfishing like me. stan in ca stan in ca

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Question:

I just wanted to know what the law says about me giving way a few bottles of homebrew to my friends. Thanks, Steve — //         Stephen W. Berrick               Voice: (301) 982-3700            // // Research and Data Systems Corporation           (301) 982-3748            // //     7855 Walker Drive, Suite 460           Fax: (301) 982-3749            //

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: I just wanted to know what the law says about me giving way a few : bottles of homebrew to my friends. Each state is a bit different, but most places, as long as you don’t sell it in any way, giving a few out to friends is perfectly OK.  And going to competitions with your wonderful concotions doesn’t need any license either (as far as I know, anyway). — Bloomington, IN  47406            (812) 855-1415 —- All opinions are my own — you know the drill. —– "I could get much more work done if I had a bigger wastebasket." "Deja brew — we have all been beer before." "Use the Brew, Luke."

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The law says relax…well you know the rest. Please keep in mind that this post is from an outlaw. Matt

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: I just wanted to know what the law says about me giving way a few : bottles of homebrew to my friends. Each state is a bit different, but most places, as long as you don’t sell it in any way, giving a few out to friends is perfectly OK.  And going to competitions with your wonderful concotions doesn’t need any license either (as far as I know, anyway).

Careful here. Steve, you should only trust legal advice from an attorney which you hires, but… I don’t have it in front of me, but my memory of the FEDERAL regulation that permits homebrewing is that the brew may [legally] be consumed in the household in which it is produced. In addition, the brew may be taken to clubs and competitions for sampling. Further, my interpretation is that giving beer to your friends is a "gray area." In other words, the regulation is not expicit and can be interpreted either way. I would like to point out that I believe in some states (notably Alabama) homebrewing is not legal at all. Does that mean if you give your friends some brews that the ATF or the state police will be breaking down your door. I doubt it. I give away brews or take them to party’s all the time. But if you give it away for some service that you would normally pay money for , or are intending to run for political office, or be a presidential appointee, then I would recommend caution. The bottom line is the only way to find out the answer to Steve’s question for sure is to hire an attorney to find out. –Russ

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ltpsun2.gsfc.nasa.gov): Each state is a bit different, but most places, as long as you don’t sell it in any way, giving a few out to friends is perfectly OK.  And going to competitions with your wonderful concotions doesn’t need any license either (as far as I know, anyway).

Here’s another for all the jailhouse lawyers out there: Can I *donate* homebrew to my favorite non-profit groups?  I’m a member of a group that seems to do much of its fundraising at the chapter level through raffles and auctions of donated merchandise (hint: when I’m done here, I’m headed over to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly).  In other chapters, members have donated homebrew, cleverly named, which the chapter then auctions or raffles off and keeps the proceedes.  I see at least three knotty issues:    o   Can I donate my beer?    o   Can my chapter make money by raffling or auctioning it?    o   Can I (and this is r-e-a-l-l-y a stretch) take any tax deduction,        even if just for the raw materials? Has anyone looked into this, or are you willing to take a wild guess and get me into real trouble with the IRS, BATF, and other assorted authority figures?

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OK, how about this one then: Is it legal to serve homebrew to someone in your home if they are under 21 but over legal drinking age for the country they are visiting from… Yep, this came up as a real issue. –arne

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AT ATOK, how about this one then: AT ATIs it legal to serve homebrew to someone in your home if they are under AT21 but over legal drinking age for the country they are visiting from… AT ATYep, this came up as a real issue. AT AT–arne Easy Arne, The issue here is not homebrew but rather serving alcohol to an underaged person.  Each state is going to be different, but the home country of the underaged person will (without exception I’d be willing to bet) be irrelevant.  A person "lives and dies" according to the local law. Here in Ohio, the only circumstances under which an underaged person may drink alcoholic beverages is when he/she is "accompanied by a parent, spouse who is not an underaged person, or legal guardian, or [when] the beer or intoxicating liquor is given by a physician in the regular line of his practice or given for established religious purposes." Ohio Rev. Code Sec. 4301.69(E). I hope this clears it up for you. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: : Jeff Pyatt                     Cincinnati, OH   : :                                                 : :   "Times like this make me wish I could fly!"   : ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: … Reality is an illusion caused by lack of alcohol. — . TLX v3.30 . — . SLMR 2.1 .

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The bottom line is the only way to find out the answer to Steve’s question for sure is to hire an attorney to find out.

And then only trust his/her advice as far as you can throw him/her! Matt

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Here’s another for all the jailhouse lawyers out there: Can I *donate* homebrew to my favorite non-profit groups?  I’m a member of a group that seems to do much of its fundraising at the chapter level through raffles and auctions of donated merchandise (hint: when I’m done here, I’m headed over to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly).  In other chapters, members have donated homebrew, cleverly named, which the chapter then auctions or raffles off and keeps the proceedes.  I see at least three knotty issues:    o   Can I donate my beer?    o   Can my chapter make money by raffling or auctioning it?    o   Can I (and this is r-e-a-l-l-y a stretch) take any tax deduction,        even if just for the raw materials? Has anyone looked into this, or are you willing to take a wild guess and get me into real trouble with the IRS, BATF, and other assorted authority figures?

I imagine that this would vary by state.  In MA, as of 1992, I found mention of donating wine to auctions, yet not beer (homebrewed or otherwise). This may not sound like the best idea, but I would feign ignorance and raffle/auction the beer as a vitamin supplement. .marc — Human temporal perceptions are completely inadequate, all the really cool beings hang out in fast forward.

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OK, how about this one then: Is it legal to serve homebrew to someone in your home if they are under 21 but over legal drinking age for the country they are visiting from…

I think this depends on the locality and the fact that the alcoholic beverage is homebrew, and the underage person foreign are irrelevent. While most Europenas consider this American law to be utterly ridiculous, it is worth remembering that the USA also had prohibition, and possession of small amount of certain chemicals is a more serious crime in many states that assault and rape and stuff.  I think it may stem from too much democracy, with democracy meaning the right of people who are intereseted and give a shit to run for government office, and in general these hitlerwannabees get their rocks off by restricting freedom.  A friend who lives in Palatine, IL informed me that the city of Arlington Heights recently passed a law making it illegal to give any alcoholic beverages to anybody under 21. I guess they’ll back this up with East German type quizzing of kids in school. Don’t wrroy about legality.  Worry about what you think is right and wrong and if these don’t quite gel, worry about whether you can get caught.  My impression here is that Americans seem to be way too concerned about legalily rather than morality.  How often do you hear a politician defending his corrupt behaviour by saying he did nothing illegal?   ‘There was a  master come unto the earth, | Ulick Stafford,                    born in the holy land of Indiana,      | Dept of Chemical Engineering,   in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne’.| Notre Dame, IN 46556          

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: OK, how about this one then: : Is it legal to serve homebrew to someone in your home if they are under : 21 but over legal drinking age for the country they are visiting from… Would it be legal for you to supply him with drugs if he was Dutch?    N’Yawk, N’Yawk                                           =o&o

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OK, how about this one then: Is it legal to serve homebrew to someone in your home if they are under 21 but over legal drinking age for the country they are visiting from…

Probably not, but then how would anyone know? In general everyone must obey the laws of the country they are in. If I go to Sinapore and vandlize some cars, can I avoid caning if I’m from the US? –Russ

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OK, how about this one then: Is it legal to serve homebrew to someone in your home if they are under 21 but over legal drinking age for the country they are visiting from… Yep, this came up as a real issue.

only if you are in the country they are visiting from… —       WA9BVE            | No free man shall ever be de-barred the use of arms.  The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government.                                         – Thomas Jefferson

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OK, how about this one then: Is it legal to serve homebrew to someone in your home if they are under 21 but over legal drinking age for the country they are visiting from… Yep, this came up as a real issue. –arne

In Australia it is legal to serve alcohol to anyone in your own home as long as you have the permision of whoever is responsible for them.  Although I am sure there are limits to this …I really don’t know….

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Don’t wrroy about legality.  Worry about what you think is right and wrong and if these don’t quite gel, worry about whether you can get caught.  My impression here is that Americans seem to be way too concerned about legalily rather than morality.  How often do you hear a politician defending his corrupt behaviour by saying he did nothing illegal?

Sorry to waste bandwidth on a not strictly related to brewing thread, but I must say a hearty "Well said" to Ulick.  I am not sure I’ve ever heard my own feelings put so succinctly (certainly, I have never done so well). Of course, one must always keep in mind what to do if one does get caught doing what the law considers inappopriate . . . (no officer, those are shitake mushrooms – oh, yes, they are quite a gourmet delicacy – here, have a few – don’t worry about that strange dizzy sensation . . . Seriously, a person is not likely to get hassled for giving alcohol to children or under-aged guests in the privacy of their own home, unless they are actually throwing an underage drinking party.  My parents always permitted me to drink wine with them since I was 9 or so (probably would have let me try it earlier if I had asked) and I expect to do the same with my kids, whenever I have them. Space Processor Software Engineering  |   Loral Federal Systems, Manassas, VA   |  (703) 367-6171

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I am not a tax lawyer, so can only offer my own opinion. I work for a well known agency of the Treasury, and my interpretation is that any acceptance of remuneration in exchange for untaxed alcoholic beverage is illegal. No matter how you disguise the transfer, even involving a third party who may be tax exempt, you have exchanged homebrew for economic gain. That is a NO NO! For a legal opinion that might count, consult a tax attorney or contact the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms through the Treasury Dept. Your own state’s Alcoholic Beverage Control Board (or whatever they call themselves) will also give you an opinion. Remember, opinions, no matter how impressive the credentials of the giver, are only opinions. The real test comes when you actually go to court.

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Here’s another for all the jailhouse lawyers out there: Can I *donate* homebrew to my favorite non-profit groups?  I’m a member of a group that seems to do much of its fundraising at the chapter level through raffles and auctions of donated merchandise (hint: when I’m done here, I’m headed over to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly).  In other chapters, members have donated homebrew, cleverly named, which the chapter then auctions or raffles off and keeps the proceedes.  I see at least three knotty issues:

If anyone is familiar with the Society for Creative Anacronism at an event in the Boston Area we had an auction a while ago to raise money for our group. The action was conducted by two master brewers. And the "Box" that the brewers donated went for quite a bit. Zach (for more info on the SCA e-mail me)

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