Question:

I like Outbacks, but at 6′3" (not overly tall) I found they have a serious lack of legroom.  I don’t see how you can say they have way more interior space than an average SUV, as my smallish 2-door Explorer is roomier.

If the Outback is too small for you, look at the Forester.  It has more room in all ways, but still isn’t a gas hog or road-warrier. — David L. Johnson    __o   | I don’t believe you, you’ve got the whole damn thing all wrong.  _`(,_  | He’s not the kind you have to wind-up on Sundays.  –Ian (_)/ (_) | Anderson   — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability? Check out the Subaru Outback.   Way more interior space than many averaged sized SUV’s.  It’s also much easier to get bikes up on the roof.

Outback simply SUCK for beach riding. I almost lost mine in Kauai. Yes, I took the air down to 20psi and all that funky stuff. It doesn’t have a real 4×4 and only the wheel with least resistance spins. I know, I have a lot of scars to prove it – trying to get it out. A 4 runner towed me out – for a case of beer. — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

Outback simply SUCK for beach riding. I almost lost mine in Kauai. Yes, I took the air down to 20psi and all that funky stuff. It doesn’t have a real 4×4 and only the wheel with least resistance spins. I know, I have a lot of scars to prove it – trying to get it out. A 4 runner towed me out – for a case of beer.

20 PSI is generally too high. Try 15 or even 10 PSI next time and you can probably go anywhere. — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

in rec.autos.4×4, Outback simply SUCK for beach riding. I almost lost mine in Kauai. Yes, I took the air down to 20psi and all that funky stuff. It doesn’t have a real 4×4 and only the wheel with least resistance spins. I know, I have a lot of scars to prove it – trying to get it out.

Down to 20psi? For sand try more like 5-8 psi…. I run 2-3 psi in the snow/sand. ~Brian — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

Outback simply SUCK for beach riding. I almost lost mine in Kauai. Yes, I took the air down to 20psi and all that funky stuff. It doesn’t have a real 4×4 and only the wheel with least resistance spins. I know, I have a lot

I thought those fancy modern "All Wheel Drive" systems are supposed to power the wheels that DO get traction. I guess I’ll stick with my old assumption, that AWD is good for cars on less-than-perfect roads / weather, and not much else. Maybe different AWD systems from different manufacturers are better or worse. — Rick Onanian — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

Outback simply SUCK for beach riding. I almost lost mine in Kauai. Yes, I took the air down to 20psi and all that funky stuff. It doesn’t have a real 4×4 and only the wheel with least resistance spins. I know, I have a lot I thought those fancy modern "All Wheel Drive" systems are supposed to power the wheels that DO get traction. I guess I’ll stick with my old assumption, that AWD is good for cars on less-than-perfect roads / weather, and not much else. Maybe different AWD systems from different manufacturers are better or worse.

  There is a small difference between the AWD system on   cars like the Porsche Turbo, Audi S6, Lamborghini,   Porsche Cayenne, and the considerably less expensive   ones found on lesser vehicles.

Response:

I’ve driven my Jeep Wrangler on the NC outer banks beaches.  It’s actually pretty tough conditions getting over the dune trails.  I saw a Subaru getting pulled out of the deep sand – he was buried up to his frame, and two really big 4wd trucks were having trouble getting him out.  Depending on recent weather, you might have to drive quite a distance through the softest, driest sand you can imagine, with really deep tracks that require good clearance.  On the beach I see mostly 4WD trucks and "normal/large" size SUVs, not the small ones.  You need to lower your tire pressure to 15-10 psi.  Once you clear the really soft sand you can drive easily.  There’s nothing like the outer banks beaches – sometimes you can drive till you can barley see another vehicle, and have a mile of beach all to yourself.  Other times it’s like a parking lot of 4×4s.  Not sure why.  You can also ride a mountain bike along the hard sand at the water’s edge, but the sand and salt are really bad for the bike… Brad — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

This past April I had my GMC Sarfari AWD van on the beaches in Hatteras… deflate the air pressure in your tires to 20psi and off you go!!! Everything fits in, or, or behind the van. — Marty S. Baltimore, MD  USA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability? we also need the car to be decent or good on the road, for normal use. we have a new baby… also, my s.o. is only 5′1" tall, while i’m 6′ so i don’t want her to feel the truck is too high (getting in) or too big (reaching the trunk, etc). we’re looking at the MAZDA TRIBUTE. We know it drives well on the road… is the 4 wheel drive V6 reasonable for the beach?? Enough power? Won’t get stuck? I’ve heard compact suv’s like the CRV are not good that way.. any real differences on the FORD ESCAPE? how is the Jeep liberty? Toyota 4runner tops the charts but $$… would have to get a *more* used one. What do you all drive on the beach for fishing/camping/biking? i guess ideally you want a truck truck for the beach, which probably doesn’t ride that well on the road, and a car car for everyday…. but what’s the best of both worlds, or the best compromise?… we have a budget too to consider and we’d like to stay in the 15-22K range for a new, or 1-2 year old, <20-30K miles type of bracket. also, anyone know if a slim thule or other cargo box plus a couple mountain bike trays would fit on top of the Mazda tribute? can you email replies to me, if you also post? thx in advance james — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

– rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

James, If I had the money to blow on a new car, I’d probably buy a Honda Element. This seems to meet all of your criteria, and is available in four wheel drive. We (wife and I) have considered buying one but have decided to wait a couple of years for a Hybrid gasoline/ electric vehicle. (Toyota Highlander, Ford Escape, and Saturn VUE hybrids will all available within the next couple of years, as will a Toyota Sienna Hybrid AWD (a real wallet-buster, no doubt.) Until then, we’re still cramming all of our stuff into our Saturn Wagon! The bikes go on a receiver hitch rack in the back. Dave Wissenbach – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability? we also need the car to be decent or good on the road, for normal use. we have a new baby… also, my s.o. is only 5′1" tall, while i’m 6′ so i don’t want her to feel the truck is too high (getting in) or too big (reaching the trunk, etc). we’re looking at the MAZDA TRIBUTE. We know it drives well on the road… is the 4 wheel drive V6 reasonable for the beach?? Enough power? Won’t get stuck? I’ve heard compact suv’s like the CRV are not good that way.. any real differences on the FORD ESCAPE? how is the Jeep liberty? Toyota 4runner tops the charts but $$… would have to get a *more* used one. What do you all drive on the beach for fishing/camping/biking? i guess ideally you want a truck truck for the beach, which probably doesn’t ride that well on the road, and a car car for everyday…. but what’s the best of both worlds, or the best compromise?… we have a budget too to consider and we’d like to stay in the 15-22K range for a new, or 1-2 year old, <20-30K miles type of bracket. also, anyone know if a slim thule or other cargo box plus a couple mountain bike trays would fit on top of the Mazda tribute? can you email replies to me, if you also post? thx in advance james — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

– rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

I guess for the beach you need wide tires and 4 wheel drive? I am sure that down around Corpus Christi they have some favorite vehicles? I think I have seen Chevy Suburbans in some articles? — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA www.kiene.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability? we also need the car to be decent or good on the road, for normal use. we have a new baby… also, my s.o. is only 5′1" tall, while i’m 6′ so i don’t want her to feel the truck is too high (getting in) or too big (reaching the trunk, etc). we’re looking at the MAZDA TRIBUTE. We know it drives well on the road… is the 4 wheel drive V6 reasonable for the beach?? Enough power? Won’t get stuck? I’ve heard compact suv’s like the CRV are not good that way.. any real differences on the FORD ESCAPE? how is the Jeep liberty? Toyota 4runner tops the charts but $$… would have to get a *more* used one. What do you all drive on the beach for fishing/camping/biking? i guess ideally you want a truck truck for the beach, which probably doesn’t ride that well on the road, and a car car for everyday…. but what’s the best of both worlds, or the best compromise?… we have a budget too to consider and we’d like to stay in the 15-22K range for a new, or 1-2 year old, <20-30K miles type of bracket. also, anyone know if a slim thule or other cargo box plus a couple mountain bike trays would fit on top of the Mazda tribute? can you email replies to me, if you also post? thx in advance james — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

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Response:

Check out the Subaru Outback.   Way more interior space than many averaged sized SUV’s.  It’s also much easier to get bikes up on the roof.

I like Outbacks, but at 6′3" (not overly tall) I found they have a serious lack of legroom.  I don’t see how you can say they have way more interior space than an average SUV, as my smallish 2-door Explorer is roomier.  Maybe more cargo space than a CRV or RAV 4, but those are quite a bit smaller than average size and still have more legroom. Nice vehicles though if you can fit in them. — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability?

Be wary of the Mazda Tribute/Ford Escape twins (they are mechanically identical, built by Ford).  They are good vehicles on paper, but have fairly poor reliability and resale value. The Jeep Liberty also has shown poor reliability and resale.  It is more capable off road than the Tribute/Escape but rides rougher, doesn’t drive as nice, is less roomy and gets poorer fuel economy. A well used Toyota 4-runner would be a better vehicle than either the Escape/Tribute or the Liberty are new.  But it is probably more than what you need. Take a long look at a Subaru Outback or Forester.  Also a Honda CRV and Toyota RAV4 would probably meet your needs.  The CRV is especially nice for kids as it has a minivan-like passthough to the back seats. The Hyundai Santa Fe is also a nice vehicle and comes with a great warranty. Do your research and be sure to look at total cost of ownership, including resale value and maintenence costs.  You will find Ford, GM, and Chrysler products really struggle there, while Honda is typically the best. Check out this article: http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-08-15-carcosts_x.htm The "cute-utes" are not real off road vehicles only if you plan to rock hop with the Jeeps. They should do fine for what you described. If you had any heavy towing to do I would say differently.  It would be silly to get a more capable 4×4 you would rarely if ever need, and you may get annoyed with the "truckyness" that comes with the bigger 4×4s.  I sure do.  Then again, I really don’t know how serious your off-road plans are.  But I’m guessing not as serious as you think. When I was in high school, my dad had a 2-wheel drive 4-cylinder Ranger.  You may be surprised where I took that thing.  It made a fine hunting vehicle. I can tell you with absolute certainty to stay away from Ford Explorers.  I have one and it is the biggest piece of junk I have ever owned.  And it doesn’t even have 60,000 miles on it yet.  The initial price made it seem like a good value.  But it’s been anything but. — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability?

Check out the Subaru Outback.   Way more interior space than many averaged sized SUV’s.  It’s also much easier to get bikes up on the roof. Barry — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

Is it necessary to post again? Well, I’ll reply to a couple other points… we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are

Only if you want one. good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability?

I’ve never seen a campground or park that requires a real 4×4 to get to the site. The worst I’ve seen is the Winterhawk bluegrass festival, which requires you to get up a big, steep hill; if it’s muddy, 2-wheel drive vehicles have a tough time. Some campgrounds do have rather rough paths, but all that’s required is a little extra ground clearance. we also need the car to be decent or good on the road, for normal use.

This is when you’ll use it most, on the road. You should probably make that a priority. road… is the 4 wheel drive V6 reasonable for the beach?? Enough power? Won’t get stuck? I’ve heard compact suv’s like the CRV are not good that way..

Compact SUVs, as well as larger ones built on a car platform, are not off-road vehicles, no matter what the manufacturer claims. They can handle grass, the path to the campground, etc; but tough stuff like deep in the woods or in deep sand, you need quite the ballsy off-road pickup (or SUV built on a pickup truck platform). Do you expect to drive on the beach? I’ve only ever seen vehicles allowed on the beach on TV shows like Baywatch; nowhere I’ve been, have I seen vehicles permitted to drive onto the sand, or anywhere out of the parking lot. any real differences on the FORD ESCAPE?

The Ford Escape is a car-based SUV. It will do anything spectacular. It probably gives a pretty good ride on the road. how is the Jeep liberty?

Reportedly, the Liberty is okay. Never driven one. What do you all drive on the beach for fishing/camping/biking? i guess

I don’t drive anything on the beach. For fishing/camping/biking, I drove a 1997 Pontiac Grand Am for 5 years; a 1987 Cadillac Sedan Deville for a couple years before that; and now I drive a full size pickup, specifically, a 2002 GMC Sierra 4×4, extended cab, etc. The Caddy and the Pontiac did fine for all sorts of off-road situations, although I did bend a wheel by going too fast in the Caddy on a very rough trail. People who think a low-slung, 2wd car can’t go off road, either have never done it, or are unskilled off-road drivers. They can’t do really gnarly off road stuff; but car-based SUVs can’t either, except that they can deal with a little bit slipperier conditions and a little bit higher clearance issues. ideally you want a truck truck for the beach, which probably doesn’t ride that well on the road, and a car car for everyday…. but what’s the best of both worlds, or the best compromise?… we have a budget

My GMC Sierra, which does NOT have any sort of off-road package, and has lame-looking road tires, is the most comfortable vehicle I’ve ever driven. The tires, which look lame, provide ample grip in all sorts of snow, mud, etc. also, anyone know if a slim thule or other cargo box plus a couple mountain bike trays would fit on top of the Mazda tribute?

I can’t imagine why not. can you email replies to me, if you also post? thx in advance james

– Rick Onanian — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability? we also need the car to be decent or good on the road, for normal use. we have a new baby… also, my s.o. is only 5′1" tall, while i’m 6′ so i don’t want her to feel the truck is too high (getting in) or too big (reaching the trunk, etc). we’re looking at the MAZDA TRIBUTE. We know it drives well on the road… is the 4 wheel drive V6 reasonable for the beach?? Enough power? Won’t get stuck? I’ve heard compact suv’s like the CRV are not good that way.. any real differences on the FORD ESCAPE? how is the Jeep liberty? Toyota 4runner tops the charts but $$… would have to get a *more* used one. What do you all drive on the beach for fishing/camping/biking? i guess ideally you want a truck truck for the beach, which probably doesn’t ride that well on the road, and a car car for everyday…. but what’s the best of both worlds, or the best compromise?… we have a budget too to consider and we’d like to stay in the 15-22K range for a new, or 1-2 year old, <20-30K miles type of bracket. also, anyone know if a slim thule or other cargo box plus a couple mountain bike trays would fit on top of the Mazda tribute? can you email replies to me, if you also post? thx in advance james — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

You might want to look at the Suzuki XL-7 (4 wheel drive version).  You could get the third row seat version and still stay close to the upper limit of your price range.  Even an ‘02 model would be good, and most (those sold after August last year) have a transferable 7 year 100,000 mile powertrain warranty.  It might be worth looking at. — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability? we also need the car to be decent or good on the road, for normal use. we have a new baby… also, my s.o. is only 5′1" tall, while i’m 6′ so i don’t want her to feel the truck is too high (getting in) or too big (reaching the trunk, etc). we’re looking at the MAZDA TRIBUTE. We know it drives well on the road… is the 4 wheel drive V6 reasonable for the beach?? Enough power? Won’t get stuck? I’ve heard compact suv’s like the CRV are not good that way.. any real differences on the FORD ESCAPE? how is the Jeep liberty? Toyota 4runner tops the charts but $$… would have to get a *more* used one. What do you all drive on the beach for fishing/camping/biking? i guess ideally you want a truck truck for the beach, which probably doesn’t ride that well on the road, and a car car for everyday…. but what’s the best of both worlds, or the best compromise?… we have a budget too to consider and we’d like to stay in the 15-22K range for a new, or 1-2 year old, <20-30K miles type of bracket. also, anyone know if a slim thule or other cargo box plus a couple mountain bike trays would fit on top of the Mazda tribute? can you email replies to me, if you also post? thx in advance james — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

Question:

minutes explaining my business in Canada (work trip to my company’s YWG facility; the word "work" must have triggered the big red alarm).

Yep. That is a big no-no, especially when a canadian self employed goes to the USA. "Going to a meeting" is a much more acceptable reason for travel.

Response:

Canada) through Chicago.  Air Canada services us from all other major cities in Canada, Except the second largest one… but that’s AC’s fault, not yours. Air Canada does link Winterpeg with Vancouver with at least one non-stop per day.

But to come back to the question, AC lists two connections/day SFO-YWG. Morning one thru YVR indeed, and afternoon one thru YYC.  Thru YYC is shorter; and there are four nonstop flights to YWG.

Response:

fishing, one of the greatest areas in the world for lake fishing is about a two hour drive east of Winnipeg, just over the border into Ontario. No ! Don’t risk your life on highway 17. Stay in Manitoba. just before the ontario border where the trans canada highway narrows into a country road, there is a nice park to the right. I think it it is on the shores of lake of the woods.

I don’t think they will be riding bicycles.   Besides, 30 miles on a two lane highway is no impediment to people who really like fishing.

Response:

Yes, its bloody cold outside. You get used to it.  It’s nice in the summer though, for those 4 months. 4 months ?  I guess if you define winter as temperatures below -20, spring and automn as temperatures below 0, then summer could be 4 months long …. In Montreal, true summer is about 4 weeks (when you can go outside in short sleeves and not have to worry about being cold during the day).

Yes, I remember my one and only (so far) trip to Canada which was spent entirely in Qu

Question:

Are there such things as clear polarised glasses. All the ones I’ve seen are tinted which defeats the purpose on a darkish day. Or can you get you existing perscription glasses coated with a polarizing layer?

I asked my optomitrist (sp?) exactly that and he said, "No." — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Are there such things as clear polarised glasses. All the ones I’ve seen are tinted which defeats the purpose on a darkish day. Or can you get you existing perscription glasses coated with a polarizing layer? Ari Ari Bert 083 232 9903 Gaelle Bert 083 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner www.troutfishing.co.za +27 11 447 7230 Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt Street, Rosebank (Behind Std Bank)

Response:

Are there such things as clear polarised glasses. All the ones I’ve seen are tinted which defeats the purpose on a darkish day. Or can you get you existing perscription glasses coated with a polarizing layer? Ari

if not you might want to try a pair w/ photochromatic lenses (they lighten and darken depending on the conditions).  i have a pair and they work great in the northwest, and we have our share of dark and gloomy days where the only reason for wearing glasses is because of that large fly tearing past our head <G. chris

Response:

From my experience in photography and applying some intuitive reasoning, a polarizing lens with no additional shading will be at a minimum around 50% gray.  This is so because the lens filters out light significantly outside the polarizing plane of the lens. I believe you can order prescription polarized lenses with no additional tint.  At least you used to be able to because I have a pair (with glass lenses) that I bought 20 years ago. Ken (to reply via email remove "zz" from address)

Response:

Are there such things as clear polarised glasses. All the ones I’ve seen are tinted which defeats the purpose on a darkish day. Or can you get you existing perscription glasses coated with a polarizing layer?

I use amber colored lenses.  Don’t know how much light they actually block but it must be considerably less than the other colors as they give the illusion of brightening while cutting down on glare….at least in strong light.  At dusk the true darkening effect is more noticeable, but still less than darker colors.

Response:

Quite by chance I discovered a very interesting little trick.  I use the clip-on/flip-up type of polarised lenses, and these are often only available in either amber or green, and are quite heavily tinted.  I use the amber ones usually, as the contrast is better. I have several pairs, as I like them for driving etc as well as fishing.  I left a pair of these lying on the dashboard of my car for several weeks, with the back of the lenses uppermost, and when I came to use them again, I discovered that the dark tint had more or less disappeared, but the polarising effect had not. Apparently the strong sunlight had bleached the colour out, without damaging the polarising properties.  I have now done this purposely with several sets, and one can reduce the tint quite considerably, in fact a couple of sets are almost clear, but still polarise. This is very useful indeed, especially in dark weather, or in the evening, when the normal lenses block too much light. Might be worth a try for anyone wishing to reduce the tint in such lenses. The lenses are plastic by the way. TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are there such things as clear polarised glasses. All the ones I’ve seen are tinted which defeats the purpose on a darkish day. Or can you get you existing perscription glasses coated with a polarizing layer? I use amber colored lenses.  Don’t know how much light they actually block but it must be considerably less than the other colors as they give the illusion of brightening while cutting down on glare….at least in strong light.  At dusk the true darkening effect is more noticeable, but still less than darker colors.

Response:

Are there such things as clear polarised glasses. All the ones I’ve seen are tinted which defeats the purpose on a darkish day. Or can you get you existing perscription glasses coated with a polarizing layer?

I don’t know if you’ll find this helpful or not, but I personally can’t stomach sunglasses over $100.  I bought a pair from Stren (www.basspro.com maybe?) that cost around $35 and come with 2 interchangeable polarized lenses.  The tan/amber color are much better in lower light conditions than the gray color. Regards, Jeff

Response:

I’m not sure i understand very well what you say Ken, (I’m french and sometime i misinterpret some things) so if i say the same thing as you in different words please pardon me. But my background is also in photography. Polarizing glass can be completely clear with no tint at all! But nonetheless there will be an impression of shading because of the re-orientation of the light rays, but the effect won’t be exactly like shading, it’s more like more intense color. Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Are there such things as clear polarised glasses. All the ones I’ve seen are tinted which defeats the purpose on a darkish day. Or can you get you existing perscription glasses coated with a polarizing layer?

As others have point out, the maximu theoretical transmission of a polarizing film for unpolarized light is 50%. That is because the component of the wrong polarization, approximately 50% of the light present has to be absorbe. Polaroid Corporation, and presumably other film suppliers make several different kinds of polarizers for different puposes. The maximum real transmission possible is about 35%. Sunglass manufacturers use what they think will sell. Several years ago, I was able to find some clipons that were about 35% transmissive at the local 99

Question:

Agnes, The Sabana Resort (near Desaru) is easily reached by ferry from both Changi Point and Tanah Merah Jetty. I have friends residing in Spore coming over to visit me on Labour days. So, I have make some plans visiting Kota Tinggi area. Here are some of the suggestions: Mutiara Motor Resort in Sedili Kecil, very layback without tourist!! for kampung life. you can cycle, jungle trek, play pools or karaoke…. . A slow walk about in Kg. Sedili Besar, a sleepy fishing village opposite Kuala Sedili. Interesting sights will be ensured. http://www.mutiaramotors.com/html/resort/index_resort.html Also, Pulau Sibu/Tinggi is just a 2-3 hour trip from Kuala Sedili by boat. Check out this site for info : http://www.myoutdoor.com/ about Johor’s Islands nearby Mersing is quiet and beautiful too. I have been to most of the islands and so far has not disappointed me just yet. If you ever go , remember to bring lots of film. You will never regrets. It maybe a bit limited in choices of getting there though. Except Tioman Island. You may take the ferry from Tanah Merah Jetty, Spore and cruise to Berjaya Tioman for diving and romantic holiday. (4hrs) Fly/Drive to Kuala Trengganu, transfer to Merang pier and off to Redang for wonderful days in paradise. You can stay in Berjaya Redang, or the other hotel opposite Redang, Lang Tengah, Crystal clear water, white powdery sandy beaches and colourful fishes swing among the beauitful corals. Do a search in Yahoo, and you will find more than the above choices. If you need further info, do contact me. Good luck Provis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey guess what, that’s my BF’s hometown!! ))) hmmmm thought tinggi is famous only for its waterfall?? why don’t you try Sebana Resort in Kota Tinggi, Johor, Malaysia heard they have good marina (calm water), 18 hole golf course, apartments, hotel rooms, facilities, etc…

Response:

I was on koh Phi Phi in ‘94, and it was way overtouristed then.  It’s only going to be 6 years worse now. In ‘89 a friend and I needed to find an island fairly close to Bangkok (limited travel time) and went to Koh Si Chang, which was great in the sense that we saw no other white people while there–it seems to be a cross between people who live there and Thais who go for vacation.  If you want something a little less over-westernized, you might try that one. Then agian, that was 10 years ago…. -Doug Magnoli – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It sure is tourisy, and the food isn’t very fantastic. I won’t say its over-built … but it’s definitely on the way to being commercialised. The westerners there look like they’ve been there for so long they have already assimilated the laid-back kampong culture of the island. Anyway, if you really insist on going to Koh Samui, u shd at least go there with a touch of class. The Chaweng Regent is quite good. My stay there was pretty enjoyable. Nice pools, nice beaches and the gym was pretty well equipped. The rooms are pretty well equipped too. However, after watching The Beach, my next pit-stop will be Phi Phi Island. I will plonk myself in the lagoon and yell: I WILL NOT DIE TODAY!!!! GODDAMMIT!!!! at a baby shark. — Cheesy Poofs "Who has a habit now of saying GODDAMMIT!!!!" we had orginally targeted the southern islands like krabi and koh phi phi, but it seems that the monsoon season hits that area from May to October…..whereas for the islands in the gulf, the monsoon is from october to december…not that this really matters, coz there’s been thunderstorms almost daily in koh samui…. phi phi island sounds wonderful, though it’s on its way to another phuket…..if you read the latest news, everyone who has watched the beach, and fallen in love with the place have zoomed in there….last heard that it has become a tourist zoo ) looks like you’d have to find your own little cliff somewhere else ))

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karl, you gotta know.. to some people, having a low paid but honest job is a disgrace… they’d rather be involved in some kinda corrupt bullshit and be a parasitic leech on the people… Excuse me, what kind of professions can you recomend to that people ? Bankrobber, drugdealer, killer…. ? Karl Ah   sorry you must be a gas-fitter! No, but what would be wrong if so ? Karl

delete SPAMMERSDIE for correspondence ICQ:42366740

Response:

Has anyone stayed at Tradewinds on Chaweng Beach, Koh Samui?  Is it a recommended place? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 2 years ago I stayed at the Coral Bay Resort with my family. It is a very nice resort. The food is superb and so is the service. The beach is however too shallow. But if you are satisfied with a swim in the pool the place is a very good choice. We are returning in June-July and will then stay at the High Coral Cove (900 bht/night). Their bungalows are not as fancy as the Coral Bay Resort but they have a fantastic little beach with corals. And the view from the restaurant over the Chaweng beach is stunning. Have a nice trip!! Agnes skrev: hiya, i’m planning a trip to koh samui with my BF from 5-10 May.  I’ve been scouting around for some good resorts that don’t cost too much, and yet have nice facilities…we’re basically looking forward to a peaceful vacation of bumming around the beach and the pool, with lots of sun and sea.  we’re cut down the choices to six, but can’t exactly decide which to go for….has anyone stayed at these hotels, and which of them would be the best choice? any tips on other resorts would be greatly appreciated too.  Thanks!! Chaweng Beach: Chaweng Villa Beach Resort 1,900 Baht/nite The Victorial Resort and Hotel 2,000 Baht/nite Coral Bay Resort 2,000 Baht/nite Lamai Beach: Aloha Resort 1,672 baht/nite Royal Blue Lagoon 1,940 baht/nite Jungle Park Resort 2,050 baht/nite

Response:

I’ve stayed at Chaweng Beach Resort (not sure if it’s the same as Chawend Beach Villa Resort). Paid additional for a room with sea-view – truth is, the block is facing the sea, but not my unit! Later, I found out only 1 unit faces the sea. Felt a little cheated. But Koh Samui is a nice, charming little island, with lots of very friendly people. You’ll enjoy it. Have fun!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hiya, i’m planning a trip to koh samui with my BF from 5-10 May.  I’ve been scouting around for some good resorts that don’t cost too much, and yet have nice facilities…we’re basically looking forward to a peaceful vacation of bumming around the beach and the pool, with lots of sun and sea.  we’re cut down the choices to six, but can’t exactly decide which to go for….has anyone stayed at these hotels, and which of them would be the best choice? any tips on other resorts would be greatly appreciated too.  Thanks!! Chaweng Beach: Chaweng Villa Beach Resort 1,900 Baht/nite The Victorial Resort and Hotel 2,000 Baht/nite Coral Bay Resort 2,000 Baht/nite Lamai Beach: Aloha Resort 1,672 baht/nite Royal Blue Lagoon 1,940 baht/nite Jungle Park Resort 2,050 baht/nite

Response:

Excuse me, what kind of professions can you recomend to that people ? Bankrobber, drugdealer, killer…. ? Karl Ah   sorry you must be a gas-fitter!

No, but what would be wrong if so ? Karl

Response:

much better than phuket… at least you do not get accosted by the people trying to get you into their bars… nice beaches…. laidback as all heck… kinda nice place to go do nothing… yup, i’ve heard that samui is on its way to being a little too commercialised, but i didnt realise it was that bad….from what i read and heard, it seems that samui is much better when compared to phuket and pattaya….i guess that’s the prob with tourism, when some place becomes popular with good reason, it soon loses its charm……

delete SPAMMERSDIE for correspondence ICQ:42366740

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Excuse me, what kind of professions can you recomend to that people ? Bankrobber, drugdealer, killer…. ? Karl

Ah   sorry you must be a gas-fitter!

Response:

  I spent two nights at High Coral Cove in March and then moved out.  The bathroom flooded while showering as the floor was sloped away from the drain, two of the lamps in the room didn’t work, lots of mosquitoes in the evening when sitting on the balcony, and the path lighting wasn’t very good at night. But as you said, good view and good snorkeling.   Not on my recommmended list.        Brewster – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We are returning in June-July and will then stay at the High Coral Cove (900 bht/night). Their bungalows are not as fancy as the Coral Bay Resort but they have a fantastic little beach with corals. And the view from the restaurant over the Chaweng beach is stunning.

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hey guess what, that’s my BF’s hometown!! ))) hmmmm thought tinggi is famous only for its waterfall?? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – why don’t you try Sebana Resort in Kota Tinggi, Johor, Malaysia heard they have good marina (calm water), 18 hole golf course, apartments, hotel rooms, facilities, etc…

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I read somewhere on the koh samet net (i think) that the prob with malaria has been cleared up, though the other "harmless" mosquitoes are still in full abundance – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – take care, Ko Samet is beautiful and has easy connection with BKK, but when I was there back in 93 I did resist just one night due to the incredible number of mosquitos ( which are of the malaria type…). It’s a pity because the place is fantastic. I dunno if the situation has changed and they solved the mosquito problem, try to get updated info through the Thorn Tree on lonelyplanet.com. joaquim

Response:

2 years ago I stayed at the Coral Bay Resort with my family. It is a very nice resort. The food is superb and so is the service. The beach is however too shallow. But if you are satisfied with a swim in the pool the place is a very good choice. We are returning in June-July and will then stay at the High Coral Cove (900 bht/night). Their bungalows are not as fancy as the Coral Bay Resort but they have a fantastic little beach with corals. And the view from the restaurant over the Chaweng beach is stunning. Have a nice trip!! Agnes skrev: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hiya, i’m planning a trip to koh samui with my BF from 5-10 May.  I’ve been scouting around for some good resorts that don’t cost too much, and yet have nice facilities…we’re basically looking forward to a peaceful vacation of bumming around the beach and the pool, with lots of sun and sea.  we’re cut down the choices to six, but can’t exactly decide which to go for….has anyone stayed at these hotels, and which of them would be the best choice? any tips on other resorts would be greatly appreciated too.  Thanks!! Chaweng Beach: Chaweng Villa Beach Resort 1,900 Baht/nite The Victorial Resort and Hotel 2,000 Baht/nite Coral Bay Resort 2,000 Baht/nite Lamai Beach: Aloha Resort 1,672 baht/nite Royal Blue Lagoon 1,940 baht/nite Jungle Park Resort 2,050 baht/nite

Response:

I was at Koh Samet at Vong Duen Beach on 9 & 10 March 2000. I was there before in october 1999. Then I had a beuatifull time. Now, there are a lot of new restaurants. But don’t go to the hotel-resort Sea Horse Bungelow. It was very, very bad now. A very poor maintenance and expensive for what you get. John joaquim schreef: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  koh samet and koh chang….we finally decided on koh samet, which few tourists venture out to to, and it’s really really great for hanging out and bumming around….. take care, Ko Samet is beautiful and has easy connection with BKK, but when I was there back in 93 I did resist just one night due to the incredible number of mosquitos ( which are of the malaria type…). It’s a pity because the place is fantastic. I dunno if the situation has changed and they solved the mosquito problem, try to get updated info through the Thorn Tree on lonelyplanet.com. joaquim

Response:

take care, Ko Samet is beautiful and has easy connection with BKK, but when I was there back in 93 I did resist just one night due to the incredible number of mosquitos ( which are of the malaria type…). It’s a pity because the place is fantastic. I dunno if the situation has changed and they solved the mosquito problem, try to get updated info through the Thorn Tree on lonelyplanet.com. joaquim

I was there in August 1999 and there were not more mosquitos than in other places. Probably the situation has improved since 1993. — Alfred Molon To reply replace NOSPAM with csi

Response:

I realise that the trip has been put on hold. I would like to say though that Koh Samui is an idyllic islands, and I do not see how any one can be disappointed with it. It has everything restaurants, top hotels, bungalows, amazing beaches, great night life etc. etc. http://www.asiatraveltips.com this will give you a wonderful idea of what it is like. I personally went to Samui January for three weeks and will return whenever I can it is a beautiful place. Please do reconsider Samui as an option. Kindest regards Steven * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

phi phi island sounds wonderful, though it’s on its way to another phuket…..if you read the latest news, everyone who has watched the beach, and fallen in love with the place have zoomed in there….last heard that it has become a tourist zoo ) looks like you’d have to find your own little cliff somewhere else ))

I was in Ko Phi Phi in 1992, and it was already overcrowded…figure out now, after The Beach!!! The problem with Phi Phi is that is really tiny and you can tour it walking in one hour so it gets a tourist zoo very easily. There are some beatiful and unspoilt islands near Phuket,  in the Phang-nga bay: their names are Ko Yao Yai and Ko Yao Noi, southernmost Ko Lanta is a good place. joaquim

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ko Samui is most disappointing. Over-built,  touristy,  Thai food no good,  too many unwashed Western hippies who are normally clerks and gas-fitters when they go back home. Crawling with hookers. There are much better parts of thailand such as Hua Hin, Trang,  even phuket if you choose the correct place yup, i’ve heard that samui is on its way to being a little too commercialised, but i didnt realise it was that bad….from what i read and heard, it seems that samui is much better when compared to phuket and pattaya….i guess that’s the prob with tourism, when some place becomes popular with good reason, it soon loses its charm…… hua hin and trang sounded pretty good, but we’re more interested in isolated beaches cut off from the mainland, more in the likes of koh samet or koh chang….

why don’t you try Sebana Resort in Kota Tinggi, Johor, Malaysia heard they have good marina (calm water), 18 hole golf course, apartments, hotel rooms, facilities, etc…

Response:

THE BOMOH wrote : Ko Samui is most disappointing. Over-built,  touristy,  Thai food no good,  too many unwashed Western hippies who are normally clerks and gas-fitters when they go back home.

Excuse me, what kind of professions can you recomend to that people ? Bankrobber, drugdealer, killer…. ? Karl

Response:

 koh samet and koh chang….we finally decided on koh samet, which few tourists venture out to to, and it’s really really great for hanging out and bumming around…..

take care, Ko Samet is beautiful and has easy connection with BKK, but when I was there back in 93 I did resist just one night due to the incredible number of mosquitos ( which are of the malaria type…). It’s a pity because the place is fantastic. I dunno if the situation has changed and they solved the mosquito problem, try to get updated info through the Thorn Tree on lonelyplanet.com. joaquim

Response:

hiya, i’d like to thank everyone who has posted or emailed their suggestions and comments to me…all your advice was of great help after hearing some negative reviews, we sort of re-considered whether to go to samui….we’re looking for a great place to hang out, with not too many tourists, and it’s disappointing to find out that samui is almost similar to phuket and pattaya…furthermore, samui is really accessible with a direct flight from singapore….. we then considered other islands like koh tao and koh phang-nan (too inaccesible), koh phi phi and koh lanta (bad weather then), koh samet and koh chang….we finally decided on koh samet, which few tourists venture out to, and it’s really really great for hanging out and bumming around….. but then we checked the dates, and darn!!! our plans were messed up again….seems that 5 may is a public holiday, and it falls nicely on fri….that means that it’s gonna be a zoo everywhere during that weekend!!! it was with great sadness that we concluded we won’t be going to thailand this may sorry all!! but all the info is still useful, coz some of our other friends might be going, so we’d forward them all the info….thank you one and all!!! btw, the story has not been concluded yet ) we’d be checking out the malaysian islands instead ) no public holidays during that time, and it’s not yet full-blown tourist season yet, so should be great….we’d be posting another request for help should it be needed )) cheers, and have a great holiday !!!!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -It sure is tourisy, and the food isn’t very fantastic. I won’t say its over-built … but it’s definitely on the way to being commercialised. The westerners there look like they’ve been there for so long they have already assimilated the laid-back kampong culture of the island. Anyway, if you really insist on going to Koh Samui, u shd at least go there with a touch of class. The Chaweng Regent is quite good. My stay there was pretty enjoyable. Nice pools, nice beaches and the gym was pretty well equipped. The rooms are pretty well equipped too. However, after watching The Beach, my next pit-stop will be Phi Phi Island. I will plonk myself in the lagoon and yell: I WILL NOT DIE TODAY!!!! GODDAMMIT!!!! at a baby shark. — Cheesy Poofs "Who has a habit now of saying GODDAMMIT!!!!"

we had orginally targeted the southern islands like krabi and koh phi phi, but it seems that the monsoon season hits that area from May to October…..whereas for the islands in the gulf, the monsoon is from october to december…not that this really matters, coz there’s been thunderstorms almost daily in koh samui…. phi phi island sounds wonderful, though it’s on its way to another phuket…..if you read the latest news, everyone who has watched the beach, and fallen in love with the place have zoomed in there….last heard that it has become a tourist zoo ) looks like you’d have to find your own little cliff somewhere else ))

Response:

Ko Samui is most disappointing. Over-built,  touristy,  Thai food no good,  too many unwashed Western hippies who are normally clerks and gas-fitters when they go back home. Crawling with hookers. There are much better parts of thailand such as Hua Hin, Trang,  even phuket if you choose the correct place

yup, i’ve heard that samui is on its way to being a little too commercialised, but i didnt realise it was that bad….from what i read and heard, it seems that samui is much better when compared to phuket and pattaya….i guess that’s the prob with tourism, when some place becomes popular with good reason, it soon loses its charm…… hua hin and trang sounded pretty good, but we’re more interested in isolated beaches cut off from the mainland, more in the likes of koh samet or koh chang….

Response:

hiya, i’m planning a trip to koh samui with my BF from 5-10 May.  I’ve been scouting around for some good resorts that don’t cost too much, and yet have nice facilities…we’re basically looking forward to a peaceful vacation of bumming around the beach and the pool, with lots of sun and sea.  we’re cut down the choices to six, but can’t exactly decide which to go for….has anyone stayed at these hotels, and which of them would be the best choice?

Ko Samui is most disappointing. Over-built,  touristy,  Thai food no good,  too many unwashed Western hippies who are normally clerks and gas-fitters when they go back home. Crawling with hookers. There are much better parts of thailand such as Hua Hin, Trang,  even phuket if you choose the correct place.

Response:

Ko Samui is most disappointing. Over-built,  touristy,  Thai food no good,  too many unwashed Western hippies who are normally clerks and gas-fitters when they go back home. Crawling with hookers. There are much better parts of thailand such as Hua Hin, Trang,  even phuket if you choose the correct place.

It sure is tourisy, and the food isn’t very fantastic. I won’t say its over-built … but it’s definitely on the way to being commercialised. The westerners there look like they’ve been there for so long they have already assimilated the laid-back kampong culture of the island. Anyway, if you really insist on going to Koh Samui, u shd at least go there with a touch of class. The Chaweng Regent is quite good. My stay there was pretty enjoyable. Nice pools, nice beaches and the gym was pretty well equipped. The rooms are pretty well equipped too. However, after watching The Beach, my next pit-stop will be Phi Phi Island. I will plonk myself in the lagoon and yell: I WILL NOT DIE TODAY!!!! GODDAMMIT!!!! at a baby shark. — Cheesy Poofs "Who has a habit now of saying GODDAMMIT!!!!"

Response:

hiya, i’m planning a trip to koh samui with my BF from 5-10 May.  I’ve been scouting around for some good resorts that don’t cost too much, and yet have nice facilities…we’re basically looking forward to a peaceful vacation of bumming around the beach and the pool, with lots of sun and sea.  we’re cut down the choices to six, but can’t exactly decide which to go for….has anyone stayed at these hotels, and which of them would be the best choice? any tips on other resorts would be greatly appreciated too.  Thanks!! Chaweng Beach: Chaweng Villa Beach Resort 1,900 Baht/nite The Victorial Resort and Hotel 2,000 Baht/nite Coral Bay Resort 2,000 Baht/nite Lamai Beach: Aloha Resort 1,672 baht/nite Royal Blue Lagoon 1,940 baht/nite Jungle Park Resort 2,050 baht/nite

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Question:

I don’t think I would have known or appreciated the difference between the $30.00 rod and my Sage. The next year I bought the Sage having the knowledge to appreciate the difference.

Me too- only the other way around. After having fished with the high-falootin LLs and RPls for a couple of years, a buddy of mine who mfgs IM6 kits gave me two of his 99 dollar wonder rods. Now I wonder why the hell I spent all that loot for the Sage sticks.   Just shows to go ya.

Response:

If you can still find one, a Fenwick Eagle or one of Cabela’s lessor priced rods might be a good by to start with.  Or be a MAN and get an Eagle Claw 4 piece fiberglass Spin/Fly rod for 7 wt. line.  This thing weighs in the pounds, not ounces, and if you use one all day your arm will simply fall off!  This rod will make you appreciate any dedicated graphite fly rod.  I have found that as I acquired better technique, I could truly tell the difference in rods.  As in all hobbies, you will find among fly fishers a certain group of "reverse" snobs who seem to feel that the only way to be a true disciple is to disdain anything top quality as being "too expensive" and "not worth it" and "a Dildofly Deluxe form K-Marts is just as good as a Thomas & Thomas" or "Orvis makes junk". etc.  They use crap and then belittle everything else in order to justify their choice.  I have all kinds of rods and the best feeling and casting rods are also the most expensive, a Sage SP 9′ 6 wt and a R.L. Winston LT 9′ 5 wt.  My other stuff is good but these are the cream of the crop.  Save your money and buy what you want. Don’t let some yo-yo tell you what a dumbass you are for buying quality.  I’m sure this will infuriate some folks but as my ol’ daddy once said, "Po’ folks have Po’ ways." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So did anyone have any suggestions for good rods in this price range. I recently saw an article in a magazine calling a pflueger rod a best buy but I can’t remember the model name of the rod. Jason, I would suggest that you try a Cortland setup, or one of the starter kits from Cabela’s. I’ve seen both for less than $100.00 and I’ve used them – they work fine. I’ve been flamed regularly for suggesting inexpensive (as opposed to cheap) flyfishing gear, but I really believe it’ll work well for you. Get an inexpensve setup and practice, practice, practice. Frank Longtine                           The Second Amendment protects your liberties, 1984 Ford                                 not your hunting rights. 1997 Rokon Trail Breaker 1993 Specialized Stumjumper Two Good Feet

Response:

try HI_TECh tackle at 414/268-9665, very favorably review in FR&R, March 1996, for (can you guess?) 40.00 to 54.99, I have 3 from 4 to 6 wt.  great back up or beginners rods.  Made in Korea

Response:

So did anyone have any suggestions for good rods in this price range. I recently saw an article in a magazine calling a pflueger rod a best buy but I can’t remember the model name of the rod. Thanks in advance, Jason Schwartz

Response:

So did anyone have any suggestions for good rods in this price range. I recently saw an article in a magazine calling a pflueger rod a best buy but I can’t remember the model name of the rod.

Jason, I would suggest that you try a Cortland setup, or one of the starter kits from Cabela’s. I’ve seen both for less than $100.00 and I’ve used them – they work fine. I’ve been flamed regularly for suggesting inexpensive (as opposed to cheap) flyfishing gear, but I really believe it’ll work well for you. Get an inexpensve setup and practice, practice, practice. Frank Longtine                           The Second Amendment protects your liberties,   1984 Ford                                 not your hunting rights.       1997 Rokon Trail Breaker                       1993 Specialized Stumjumper Two Good Feet

Response:

I’ll second that. I started out with a $30.00 rod. It worked just fine for my first year of fly fishing. When I first started out, I don’t think I would have known or appreciated the difference between the $30.00 rod and my Sage. The next year I bought the Sage having the knowledge to appreciate the difference.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -So did anyone have any suggestions for good rods in this price range. I recently saw an article in a magazine calling a pflueger rod a best buy but I can’t remember the model name of the rod. Jason, I would suggest that you try a Cortland setup, or one of the starter kits from Cabela’s. I’ve seen both for less than $100.00 and I’ve used them – they work fine. I’ve been flamed regularly for suggesting inexpensive (as opposed to cheap) flyfishing gear, but I really believe it’ll work well for you. Get an inexpensve setup and practice, practice, practice. Frank Longtine

Response:

Question:

I think it’s about time that somewhere some fisheries managers bite the big one and introduce regulations that restrict all anglers in trout fisheries (or bass etc) to a minimum number of fish killed per year ( as Jon suggests) and a minimum number of fish landed per day.

I’m all for this.  I was on a streak last spring– caught one fish on every outing for three weeks.  But, usually I don’t catch anything. It’d be great to have a regulation that guarantees me a minimum number of fish landed per day! — Tight Threads,         Charley Renn         Corvallis, OR

Response:

Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing. I eat reds and specks that I catch on an Abu Garcia 6500 as much as I do a 16 inch trout caught on a 18 Adams. It is a simple thing and would be common if it wern’t for the Bunny Huggers. Am I the only one that eats fish here? If you get a fish that is as good as a trout as table fair, you should make it table fair. i know I’ll get hell from everyone about this but I accept that. BryceC

– Brice, Wake up! Where is the next fish you cook comming from? This is not a bunny hug, a tree hug, a rock hug or any other "Environmental issue." Say you own a pond with 100 fish in it, if you want to fish the pond every day, you will soon realize that catch and release is the only way you can sustain your sport. Or, of course, you could open a hatchery . . . . / o          /                                    |   __ /        /         Douglas Easton             |                                /                                      |                                                     *

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Well I will not judge you for your way of life, but don’t come up to Montana and try to catch and cook in any of the prime trout areas, because you will be arrested if I see it…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing. I eat reds and specks that I catch on an Abu Garcia 6500 as much as I do a 16 inch trout caught on a 18 Adams. It is a simple thing and would be common if it wern’t for the Bunny Huggers. Am I the only one that eats fish here? If you get a fish that is as good as a trout as table fair, you should make it table fair. i know I’ll get hell from everyone about this but I accept that. BryceC Ain’t nothing wrong with keeping.  Depends on why you fish.  Frankly, I like the total experience and an satisfied with the challenge, the "art" of flyfishing, the environment, etc.  I don’t need to harvest the fish to be satisfied and therefore I fish entirely catch and release. however, I certainly do not blame anyone for harvesting what can be used appropriately.

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fish, then it is theoretically possible for a larger % of the population to be decimated by C&R methods than by C&K

It’s a nice theory but empirical evidence just doesn’t bear it out. In fact empirical evidence disproves it.  Go fish both the C&R and C&K section of the San Juan River for instance.  The two areas are adjacent. In a day of fishing the former you’ll typically catch about 30 fat healthy fish running 12-24 inches; in the latter you’ll catch a handful of scrawny 10-inch stockers.  Which is decimated? Even what I’ve said above is overly simplistic.

No actually, it’s too complicated.  The facts are clear, simple, and undeniable.   — -Wayne Trzyna

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: Hopefully, we’re not : carrying fin tags or punch cards anytime soon. Why? Just curious… JonCook.

Since what was proposed was essentially an honor system, what’s the point of punch cards? I either follow the rules or I don’t. The paperwork is a potential bureaucratic nightmare. It just makes fishing more expensive for everyone. For the record, I have killed one fish on the Platte in 16 years of fishing it. The fin tags would be of no use to me unless someone could convince me that killing fish there improved the fishery. (Colorado has a great bag limit foroverpopulated pond brookies under 8" that more than satisfies my appetite for fresh trout and HELPS the population.) However the 40 caught per season is interesting. As tough as the Platte can be some days, therehave been numerous days where the seasonal limit would have been filled. I only get to fish there 1 to 10 or 12 days a year while I’m visiting family in the Springs. What about the guys who fish there much more than that? How would they feel? Or is the real issue here limiting the number of fishing days to improve the fisherman’s aesthetic experience as opposed to protecting a fishery? Could it be this is just a stalking horse for another round of yuppie bashing?  Not saying I know the answer, but it’s an interesting question. I fish the Platte during the week at off times of the year, often with snow on the ground, because I want to see fewer people. I guess with punch cards and fin tags I could go whenever I wanted and see fewer people, but I’ve come to love the Canyon more the times that I go than any other. Probably wouldn’t change a thing. BP

Response:

wayne trzyna  wrote in article I think it’s about time that somewhere some fisheries managers bite the big one and introduce regulations that restrict all anglers in trout fisheries (or bass etc) to a minimum number of fish killed per year ( as Jon suggests) and a minimum number of fish landed per day. Ideally it would require a punch card or tag system and the max catch per day (regardless if they are all released) would have to operate fairly much on an honour system – but I think most fishers would do so. This is unnecessary.  If a person is catching dozens of fish that fact implies there are plenty of fish to catch.  It seems silly to regulate "number of fish landed" in this scenario.

This may be a naive assumption.  (Before you react.  Note that I said ‘may’.)  I have no facts on this issue (and certainly would appreciate it if anyone could contribute some), but it stands to reason that C&R could have it’s own pitfalls.  If it is true that a certain percentage of returned fish die as a result of having been caught and handled, and it is true that there are many fishermen who are successful at catching many fish, then it is theoretically possible for a larger % of the population to be decimated by C&R methods than by C&K (where fishers keep all they catch, must stop fishing when the limit is reached,  and compliance to these regs is high….i.e. an ‘ideal’ C&K fishery). Even what I’ve said above is overly simplistic.  We all know that there are a variety of factors that uniquely effect each fishery, and to some degree, I think the jury is still out as to what works best where.  There is no magic bullet that is going to cure the underlying problem…overpopulation of fishers.  (I sure aint gonna stop fishing, are you?).  Unfortunately, we have found all too often that well meant resource management techniques, even though they look good on paper, fail to measure up to our expectations.  I suspect that this may be true of C&R, at least on some fisheries, but again I have no specific facts. Does anyone know of any scholarly investigations of the long term impacts of C&R fishing?

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A friend of mine (bait fisher) had an excellent idea.  On the South Platte around Deckers there is a 2 fish over 16" slot limit.   as a result you won’t find a lot of fish over 16".  This is a wrong approach. switch to 2, or4 fish under 12", and let the big ones go. How’s that? </c

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Sounds nice but what happens when all the bigs ones die of old age and here ain’t any little ones around to grow big because they’ve all been C & C’s (or whatever the latest inane acroynm or synthetic politically correct terminology is) Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A friend of mine (bait fisher) had an excellent idea.  On the South Platte around Deckers there is a 2 fish over 16" slot limit.   as a result you won’t find a lot of fish over 16".  This is a wrong approach. switch to 2, or4 fish under 12", and let the big ones go. How’s that? </c

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Chaz, given the pressure on the SP, Ralph’s probably right. So, how about: Define some section of the SP, say Cheesman to Oxyoke (that right?), then, each angler can keep 4 fish per year, any size, and (this is the key) can only catch a total of 40 fish per year. With that, the SP would be a truely great fishery, and those 2-10 days you fished it per year would be much more memorable than the 50 you do now (you being anyone who fishes it that much now, not neccessarily Chaz). JonCook.

: : Sounds nice but what happens when all the bigs ones die of : old age and here ain’t any little ones around to grow big : because they’ve all been C & C’s (or whatever the latest inane : acroynm or synthetic politically correct terminology is) : Ralph H : A friend of mine (bait fisher) had an excellent idea.  On the South : Platte around Deckers there is a 2 fish over 16" slot limit.   as a : result you won’t find a lot of fish over 16".  This is a wrong approach. : switch to 2, or4 fish under 12", and let the big ones go. : : How’s that? : : </c

Response:

Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing. I eat reds and specks that I catch on an Abu Garcia 6500 as much as I do a 16 inch trout caught on a 18 Adams. It is a simple thing and would be common if it wern’t for the Bunny Huggers. Am I the only one that eats fish here? If you get a fish that is as good as a trout as table fair, you should make it table fair. i know I’ll get hell from everyone about this but I accept that. BryceC

Ain’t nothing wrong with keeping.  Depends on why you fish.  Frankly, I like the total experience and an satisfied with the challenge, the "art" of flyfishing, the environment, etc.  I don’t need to harvest the fish to be satisfied and therefore I fish entirely catch and release. however, I certainly do not blame anyone for harvesting what can be used appropriately.

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Sounds nice but what happens when all the bigs ones die of old age and here ain’t any little ones around to grow big because they’ve all been C & C’s (or whatever the latest inane acroynm or synthetic politically correct terminology is)

Yes, that is the fly in the ointment.  You could expect more stocks because larger fish produce more eggs, etc. – but remember only a few small ones would be kept. But you’re right.  The number of small fish would decline, especially on the SP – I doubt there is a great deal of natural reproduction and they won’t stock it, so……. </c – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ralph H

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Chaz, given the pressure on the SP, Ralph’s probably right. So, how about: Define some section of the SP, say Cheesman to Oxyoke (that right?), then, each angler can keep 4 fish per year, any size, and (this is the key) can only catch a total of 40 fish per year.

For anglers who keep some/most/all of thier legal catch, a 40 fish/year limit would be totally unenforceable.  Unless, of course, you gave them "tear-away tags"  as part of their liscense and made them tag the fins of thier fish.   Hey, what a great way to limit exclusive Catch and Kill fishing.  Make killing a bunch of fish more trouble than it’s worth! Jason B

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Chaz, given the pressure on the SP, Ralph’s probably right. So, how about: Define some section of the SP, say Cheesman to Oxyoke (that right?), then, each angler can keep 4 fish per year, any size, and (this is the key) can only catch a total of 40 fish per year. With that, the SP would be a truely great fishery, and those 2-10 days you fished it per year would be much more memorable than the 50 you do now (you being anyone who fishes it that much now, not neccessarily Chaz). JonCook.

I think it’s about time that somewhere some fisheries managers bite the big one and introduce regulations that restrict all anglers in trout fisheries (or bass etc) to a minimum number of fish killed per year ( as Jon suggests) and a minimum number of fish landed per day. Ideally it would require a punch card or tag system and the max catch per day (regardless if they are all released) would have to operate fairly much on an honour system – but I think most fishers would do so. I don’t know much about the South Platte other than I recognize the name but it seems to me if you have a reg that allows killing only fish of 16" or over and fish that size are rare then something isn’t working (providing the river is able to grow good numbers of fish to that size). you’ve got to wonder if a limit of 4 smaller fish will help either if the kill so seriously affects the larger fish. I think that most of us want our waters managed so there is a more or less normal distribution of all age classes. Wiping out one class to protect the other doesn’t make sense and will likely lead to an imbalance in the long run! Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : Sounds nice but what happens when all the bigs ones die of : old age and here ain’t any little ones around to grow big : A friend of mine (bait fisher) had an excellent idea.  On the South : Platte around Deckers there is a 2 fish over 16" slot limit.   as a : result you won’t find a lot of fish over 16".  This is a wrong approach. : switch to 2, or4 fish under 12", and let the big ones go. : : How’s that? : : </c

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Sounds nice but what happens when all the bigs ones die of old age and here ain’t any little ones around to grow big because they’ve all been C & C’s (or whatever the latest inane acroynm or synthetic politically correct terminology is) Ralph H

I let the hatcheries replenish the stock. I also don’t get very many chances to trout fish so I make the best of the ones that I catch. BryceC

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        <<Killing a fish and eating it is not a dishonorable thing to do. The angler should use a little discretion, though. Where they are scarce, it’s foolish to kill them. On the other hand, if the trout are plentiful I may keep one or two per trip.         You are right, Bryce, when you admit that you are likely to catch some flak over this issue. But, where legal, it is your RIGHT to do that if you wish. People can holler all they want, but it’s their problem not yours. Just use good judgment, and don’t overcook those beauties. Enjoy! (Try poaching them in wine and garlic.) I fish the Tellico so there are plenty of fish around there. The Tellico Hatchery Stocks weekly. I also fish the West Prong Pigeon, the Little and the Elk. All have lots of fish. If I were fishing Abrahms creek or Rabbit Creek that would be a different story. I’m glad someone agrees with me. BryceC

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Jason, the reason game laws work is because most people observe them voluntarily. There is simply not enough DFG (or DNR, depending on where you’re from) money to enforce these laws.   Laws that are "more trouble than they are worth"  are the ones least likely to be honored by the requisite number of fishermen.                                                            -dnc- Jason Beary wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip]  Unless, of course, you gave them "tear-away tags"  as part of their liscense and made them tag the fins of thier fish.   Hey, what a great way to limit exclusive Catch and Kill fishing.  Make killing a bunch of fish more trouble than it’s worth! Jason B

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So if I get skunked, your going to fine me?  (No need to reply.  I know what you meant.  Just couldn’t resist) —                                                            -dnc- I think it’s about time that somewhere some fisheries managers bite the big one and introduce regulations that restrict all anglers in trout fisheries (or bass etc) to a …[snip]…. a minimum number of fish

landed per day.

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I think it’s about time that somewhere some fisheries managers bite the big one and introduce regulations that restrict all anglers in trout fisheries (or bass etc) to a minimum number of fish killed per year ( as Jon suggests) and a minimum number of fish landed per day. Ideally it would require a punch card or tag system and the max catch per day (regardless if they are all released) would have to operate fairly much on an honour system – but I think most fishers would do so.

This is unnecessary.  If a person is catching dozens of fish that fact implies there are plenty of fish to catch.  It seems silly to regulate "number of fish landed" in this scenario. I don’t know much about the South Platte other than I recognize the name but it seems to me if you have a reg that allows killing only fish of 16" or over and fish that size are rare then something isn’t working (providing the river is able to grow good numbers of fish to that size).

There are a bunch of dubious assumptions underlying this thread.  The fact that one is not catching bigger fish does not mean that there are no big fish to be caught.  We all understand this more than we’d care to admit. But I agree that slot limits that allow killing only big fish are counterproductive. — -Wayne Trzyna

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-Wayne Trzyna

<snip I don’t know much about the South Platte other than I recognize the name but it seems to me if you have a reg that allows killing only fish of 16" or over and fish that size are rare then something isn’t working (providing the river is able to grow good numbers of fish to that size). There are a bunch of dubious assumptions underlying this thread.  The fact that one is not catching bigger fish does not mean that there are no big fish to be caught.  We all understand this more than we’d care to admit.

If the 16" fish is rare then you will fish somewhere else right? If the 16" fish is rare, you will change the regs to protect them right? Seems there are an awful lot of people on this group going out of their way to poor mouth the Platte. I suspect Wayne knows that Cheeseman Canyon(Pure C&R) has plenty of 16"+ fish and has for years. Maybe its not like the eighties when there were many days when almost all the fish I caught were above 16", but… I must admit however that I have never caught as many larger fish below the canyon (kill one over 16" stretch), even in the better days. Numbers of total fish caught were somewhat similar though. Only 3 real differences between the areas: Better Habitat (Canyon), C&R vs. C&R&K(1 over 16"), Much easier access (below the canyon). Differences are probably attributable to a complex blend of  all three. The solution for the whole fishery should be derived deliberately. Hopefully, we’re not carrying fin tags or punch cards anytime soon. BP

Response:

Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing. I eat reds and specks that I catch on an Abu Garcia 6500 as much as I do a 16 inch trout caught on a 18 Adams. It is a simple thing and would be common if it wern’t for the Bunny Huggers. Am I the only one that eats fish here? If you get a fish that is as good as a trout as table fair, you should make it table fair. i know I’ll get hell from everyone about this but I accept that. BryceC

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Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing.

While that’s nice (and perhaps you’d like to trade some recipes): Somewhere some nincompoop(s) cooked this whole issue into a one or the other kind of argument. What was supposed to an idea of applying common sense for the good of fishing for the future has been perverted into a sort of quasi religion and had a concommittent religious backlash. That there are those who say you should never kill a fish and to kill a fish bespeakes a blatant disregard for the sport and the environment versus those who say there should always be a kill and a meal regardless or close a fishery down ( like you having to justify the cost of your sport with a meal on the table as if being on the water and hooking a fish or two can’t be enough) just proves to me there are people who don’t really want to think about an issue and then ironically decide they have all the answers. One eminent poster here once eluded to Ecclesiates and said there is a time to kill (as in your fishery has an undeniable surplus available) and a time to release (such as is the case for virtually all wild steelhead) where you can’t really be certain of a sufficient number of fish being available for the future of the stocks to be assured. It may be a matter of convention (like on the Dean) where the body of anglers fishing there agree releasing is the best thing to do or boil down to personal preference. But why not accept it as a fact sometimes it is best to let it live. For those that don’t like those sorts of fisheries they can go someplace else. It’s a big free wide world. Ralph H replace "spamsucks" with direct for email reply.

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Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing.  Am I the only one that eats fish here? BryceC

Bryce; The point is that many (most) FFermen prefer the opportunity to catch lots of quality fish all year.  If I and all other FFermen kept a good % of the trout we caught, there would really be very little reason to continue the sport.  Here in PA, wild trout would not exist in the numbers that they do were it not for voluntary C&R.  We have way more fishermen than fish to support the sport.  If people keep the fish they catch, it will not ever be able to be caught by other fishermen or yourself, guaranteed.  Here in the East, we would very quickly run out of the good populations of wild fish that already struggle to survive in the shadow of Man.  All Catch and Cook would do is deplete the resource to the point of destruction.  (But, then again, that IS the american way, isn’t it? Fuck it all to hell and let someone else pay for the baby.) Jason Beary

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        Killing a fish and eating it is not a dishonorable thing to do. The angler should use a little discretion, though. Where they are scarce, it’s foolish to kill them. On the other hand, if the trout are plentiful I may keep one or two per trip.         You are right, Bryce, when you admit that you are likely to catch some flak over this issue. But, where legal, it is your RIGHT to do that if you wish. People can holler all they want, but it’s their problem not yours. Just use good judgment, and don’t overcook those beauties. Enjoy! (Try poaching them in wine and garlic.)

Response:

Jason makes a good point, but it is true that there is nothing wrong with keeping fish where it is legal to do so.  If you care about the resource (which you should if you want to continue to C&C) then I strongly recommend supporting a mixed management program in your area that protects some waters with C&R, some with limited C&K.  If eating trout is your real pleasure, try searching out the put-n-take waters in your area (if they exist).  Living in San Diego, as I do, means travelling long distances for abundant trout streams, but the winter fishing in local lakes for put-n-take trout is pretty good.  And believe it or not, the private hatchery that provides the fish feeds them on something that makes ‘em taste really good.  Maybe you can find something like this in your area.   —                                                            -dnc- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing.  Am I the only one that eats fish here? BryceC Bryce; The point is that many (most) FFermen prefer the opportunity to catch lots of quality fish all year.  If I and all other FFermen kept a good % of the trout we caught, there would really be very little reason to continue the sport.  

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Question:

fish?  What dry fly catches the most? In an attempt to settle that debate and raise money for Trout Unlimited conservation efforts in Vermont, the first-ever Green Mountain Dual Fly Duel will be held June 28,1997 on the Winooski River in Bolton, Vermont. The Duel is open to all fly anglers.<< While I salute and support the cause for which this is being staged, I must ask why it’s being limited to only fly anglers? TU is NOT a group for fly flingers only, as evidenced by the most recent issue of TROUT magazine. Don’t outings like this falsely indicate to the public that TU is an elitist group of snobbish fly anglers, when in truth it’s a cold water conservation group open to all (even worm dunkers and non-anglers)? I’m constantly battling the image that we are a fly fishing only group within my own TU chapter, and wish others wouldn’t work so hard to undo the efforts some of us have performed. Fair winds and following seas, Pat in Pawtucket  RI Board member, Narragansett Chapter TU

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  What wet fly catches the most fish?  What dry fly catches the most? In an attempt to settle that debate and raise money for Trout Unlimited conservation efforts in Vermont, the first-ever Green Mountain Dual Fly Duel will be held June 28,1997 on the Winooski River in Bolton, Vermont.     The Duel is open to all fly anglers.  A morning of fishing will be followed with an awards ceremony and a catered barbecue at Bolton Valley Resort where a bevy of door prizes – rods, tackle and guided trips – will be given away.    The premise behind the Duel is simple.  Anglers – two to a boat – float the Winooski from sunrise to noon.  Each flyfisher chooses their favorite two flies and only that pair of flies (one wet, one dry) may be used during the Duel.  Break off your dry on a 22-inch brown trout? Then you’ve still got the wet fly to use.  Snap off the wet on a submerged log? Well then your Dueling Days are done.  You will, however, be able to fish the rest of the morning for pleasure.      In addition to the door prizes, merchandise awards will be given away for the angler or team of anglers catching the most trout and the largest trout.  Money raised from the Duel’s entry fee of $150 per angler (there are corporate team spots available) will benefit Trout Unlimited’s conversation and restoration efforts on Vermont rivers.  A portion of the entry fee is tax deductible.    John Merwin, the well-known fly fishing author, will be one of the Duel’s guests of honor.      There is a limited number of entry slots available. For more     Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service – 800 805 6495     Vermont Outdoor Guide Association 800 425 TRIP     Fly Tiers’ Heaven 802 879 7304. Bring the family for a weekend of fun on the river and in the mountains and feel good contributing to this noteworthy conservation fundraiser.

GO WITH THE GOLD-RIBBED HARE’S EAR AND A BORCHER’S SPECIAL DRY FLY. You’ll win. Mr. G.

Response:

 What wet fly catches the most fish?  What dry fly catches the most? In an attempt to settle that debate and raise money for Trout Unlimited conservation efforts in Vermont, the first-ever Green Mountain Dual Fly Duel will be held June 28,1997 on the Winooski River in Bolton, Vermont.     The Duel is open to all fly anglers.  A morning of fishing will be followed with an awards ceremony and a catered barbecue at Bolton Valley Resort where a bevy of door prizes – rods, tackle and guided trips – will be given away.    The premise behind the Duel is simple.  Anglers – two to a boat – float the Winooski from sunrise to noon.  Each flyfisher chooses their favorite two flies and only that pair of flies (one wet, one dry) may be used during the Duel.  Break off your dry on a 22-inch brown trout? Then you’ve still got the wet fly to use.  Snap off the wet on a submerged log? Well then your Dueling Days are done.  You will, however, be able to fish the rest of the morning for pleasure.      In addition to the door prizes, merchandise awards will be given away for the angler or team of anglers catching the most trout and the largest trout.  Money raised from the Duel’s entry fee of $150 per angler (there are corporate team spots available) will benefit Trout Unlimited’s conversation and restoration efforts on Vermont rivers.  A portion of the entry fee is tax deductible.    John Merwin, the well-known fly fishing author, will be one of the Duel’s guests of honor.      There is a limited number of entry slots available. For more     Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service – 800 805 6495     Vermont Outdoor Guide Association 800 425 TRIP     Fly Tiers’ Heaven 802 879 7304. Bring the family for a weekend of fun on the river and in the mountains and feel good contributing to this noteworthy conservation fundraiser.

Response:

While I salute and support the cause for which this is being staged, I must ask why it’s being limited to only fly anglers?

‘Cuz it’s a bitch to cast a dry fly with a level-wind?

Response:

Just a quick fact: In Colorado, this competition would be illegal… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Just a quick fact: In Colorado, this competition would be illegal… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Can you check the regulations there closely for me Tim, and apply your best legal and ethical judgement as to whether it might also be illegal for a fisher to count his fish and tell me his fish count?  I believe the de facto intention for counting fish is for competition purposes. Also check as to how many points one might be dinged against their license for each infraction. Mark Vinsel — http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just a quick fact: In Colorado, this competition would be illegal… — TimW Halfordian Golfer Can you check the regulations there closely for me Tim, and apply your best legal and ethical judgement as to whether it might also be illegal for a fisher to count his fish and tell me his fish count?  I believe the de facto intention for counting fish is for competition purposes. Also check as to how many points one might be dinged against their license for each infraction.

I just reread the entire Colorado State pamphlet…probably the first time in 10 years.  Organized competition for any reason is expressly prohibited in all *rivers*.  You can hold one on a lake, but not a river.   Damned good thing too.  It’s hard enough to simply get a decent beat anymore, much less with some frikken one-fly- superman-contest going on… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Question:

Heading to B.C. but I don’t know where to go.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  I’m a stream fisherman so point me in the right direction.

BC is mostly lake fishing, esp Kamloops area.  However, there is excellent stream fishing at Skagit River (C&R only) near Hope also steelhead/salmon at Chilliwack River. — The views expressed are my own and does not represent those of my employer.

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Heading to B.C. but I don’t know where to go.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  I’m a stream fisherman so point me in the right direction.

From you monniker you might like to try and get hold of Kelly Davison 11891 Charrington Maple Ridge BC 604 467 6406 He guided me a couple of years back in September/October and I lost count of the bright sea run cuts we landed – mostly 2lb or so – but up to about 4lb. All taken on an olive marabou/mylar minnow pattern on a l/s size 8. My first experience with cuts – and one of the best days fishing ever! I also heard that you can beach cast for them with a fly rod from below College Park – but didn’t have the time to get down there. Tight lines — Martin Kurrein 199 Strand London WC2R 1DR http://www.mkurrein.co.uk/

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Heading to B.C. but I don’t know where to go.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  I’m a stream fisherman so point me in the right direction.

Try the Web page for Hansen’s in Vancouver (I could find the address somewhere if you can’t).  They gave me a greta trip for early July – lake fishing with damsel flies.  But they could give you a completely different suggestion for the time you are going.

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Heading to B.C. but I don’t know where to go.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  I’m a stream fisherman so point me in the right direction.

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Keywords: Chile or Peru Hot Spots Re:Fly Fisihing in Peru or Chile. I am going to these countries next week and would like to do some fly fishing.  Anyone know of som hot spots?

I have a good friend in Santiago, Chile who owns a store called Fly Shop Ltda. He has many contacts with different fishing camps and lodges throughout Chile.  The best thing is to send him a fax with any questions or request and he will respond promptly.   Gonzalo Cortes de la Cerda Av. Manquehue Norte 1260 Santiago Chile Phone Fax  011-56-2-2018571   Good Luck!! Chile is a Great Place!!                       Marcos Vergara                       Fly & Field, Inc.                       1-800-328-9753

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Re:Fly Fisihing in Peru or Chile. I am going to these countries next week and would like to do some fly fishing.  Anyone know of som hot spots?

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Anybody know some goods spot in and around Ottawa Canada for some trout fly fishing. Luc Nocente — Luc Nocente

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Ottawa is more a bass/pike hotspot than trout, but I’ve heard that there are now Brown trout in the Ottawa River (Quebec has been stocking them). The flyfishing for bass in the Ottawa is good, and for that alone is worth bringing your rod alone. Try the rapids from Britannia Filtration plant downstream. The Ottawa is a big river and can be fearsome in high water.

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Ottawa is more a bass/pike hotspot than trout, but I’ve heard that there are now Brown trout in the Ottawa River (Quebec has been stocking them).

Confirmed:  a 3 or 4 lb. brown was reported taken at Britannia 13 months ago, and I got a 10-inch brown during the summer.  Local folklore has it that, because the Ottawa River is the frontier between Ontario and Quebec provinces, fisheries managers are not supposed to stock it:  but one or more managers dumped surplus trout there just to see if they could survive and reproduce — which my 10-inch fish suggests is possible. The flyfishing for bass in the Ottawa is good, and for that alone is worth bringing your rod alone. Try the rapids from Britannia Filtration plant downstream. The Ottawa is a big river and can be fearsome in high water.

This is why early fly fishing has been poor this year.  When the water warmed up enough, hydro dams upstream were opened to run off extra snow melt or rain, and the good spots are now too deep and the current too strong.  Fly fishing for bass is best done wading (and from July one can wade wet i.e. in shorts and sneakers).  Anywhere with exposed rocks and mixed current and quiet water can be good.  There are reliable hatches at sundown half the time in July-August, when besides bass other species can be taken e.g. mooneye and walleye. —  |          Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Rd., Carlsbad         |  |        Springs, Ont., Canada K0A 1K0; tel: (613) 822-0734       |  |  "What I’ve always liked about science is its independence from |  |  authority"–Ontario Science Centre (name on file) 10 July 1981 |

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Hello Donald Please reply here and in e-mail,I’m curious if this get’s out…sorry folks just a test for the moment Tight Lines Dale Kent … I cna ytpe 300 wrods pre mniuet! |Fidonet:  Dale Kent 1:351/400

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Rather than the Ottawa River, I’d suggest the Mississippi (the *other* one, in the Ottawa suburbs). Nice smallmouth, pleasant surroundings. — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

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: Rather than the Ottawa River, I’d suggest the Mississippi (the *other* : one, in the Ottawa suburbs). Nice smallmouth, pleasant surroundings. : — Speaking of which, I was FFishing the Mississippi just below a set of rapids/waterfalls and could *see* some really nice smallmouth, but dammit all I could catch were lots of rockbass. I mean, the rockbass were *fun* but I was getting really frustrated with the smallies. Now, I was using a wooly bugger for a while, brown and black, and then changed to smaller nymphs, and kept catching the panfish, but no bass. Sigh. Still, the spin casters were catching *nothing* so I was happy. — Chris Pawlowicz, Research Engineer Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada

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Hi My name is Matt I am an acomplished fisherman (meaning im not some young dork who doesn’t know a thing about fishing but brags cause he spent a lot on his gear) any way I am doing a project for school on fishing around the world if you could get any info to my address at home by tonight I would greatly appreciate it……and if anyone needs help or advice on fishing in nothern and central New Jersey or eastern Penn I would be happy to give it out…. Thanks in advance, Matt, age 16

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any way I am doing a project for school on fishing around the world if you could get any info to my address at home by tonight I would greatly appreciate it……

In my day, Matt, we would wait unitl the morning the project was due before starting research. . . . –sean williams

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any way I am doing a project for school on fishing around the world if you could get any info to my address at home by tonight I would greatly appreciate it…… In my day, Matt, we would wait unitl the morning the project was due before starting research. . . . –sean williams

Given the delays inherent in posting to newgroups, he waited until the day after it was due 8^( Hope graduation isn’t in jeapardy! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <           "Read this and nobody gets hurt"           < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

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