Question:

Yo. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

But why not deal with personal conflicts by e-mail so that Roffians who hate this stuff are not forced to read (and tempted to join in).

I’ve dipped in & out of this group a few times over the past 3 years or so, and have made and heard made the same comments as yours several times. Each time (as it will likely do now) the response will confirm that the majority of the people who actually POST in this group ENJOY it being a place where playground games are played. I think it’s just a combination of the topic not having as much objective discussion potential (there’s an argument right there), and that the outspoken people are, uh, outspoken. There’s another group called alt.flyfishing that I think was started to get away from this, but it is pretty pathetic when you have to giev up an entire newsgroup because the majority of posters (remember they do post!) want to talk about something else. And there’s me pontificating off-topic too. — Jeff Cook http://www.cookstudios.com Video, Audio, Print & the Web Washington DC & London

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Being one of those who read a number of discussions on ROFF in the past few months – without participating myself – I have a few remarks that might shine some light on this issue. The majority of ROFF post is limited to relatively few people, let’s say some fifty "regulats". Plus an additional number of posters who take part only occasionally. Most Roffians are American, some are Canadian or British, only quite a few are European or from other parts of the world. To Europeans like myself  - who master the English language well enough to comprehend the interesting discussions on FF – the discussions on other subjects than FF are irrelevant, often annoying and sometimes impossible to understand because they require a thorough and detailed insight in the American way of life, which most of us have not.Though there are contributors who have interesting and valuable information both for newbies and skilled fly fishermen it’s too bad that ROFF is so often abused with crap.(I must admit, however, that it can be amazing to observe how easily Americans cross swords and how they fight their verbal wars!) But why not deal with personal conflicts by e-mail so that Roffians who hate this stuff are not forced to read (and tempted to join in). Well, my overall impression of ROFF is definitively a positive one – though I am well aware of the fact that many fly fishermen prefer to keep out of the heat, pick up the information they can use and leave it to that. If certain sunscribers would participate in a more diciplined manner and focus on what should bring us together – FF being our core business for that matter – ROFF may offer an even more suitable forum in the exchange of FF know how, discussion on FF issues and establishing contacts between individual Roffians. I’m stepping in – still eager to learn – addicted to FF (among other things) as long as I’m going strong!

Thank you Henk.  It’s always good to read a well reasoned message in this asylum.  I cannot speak for the group (well, o.k., I often DO, but they don’t like it), but I really do appreciate your insights……despite disagreeing with some of the particulars.      :) It is an accident of history that the majority of participants here are American and that the common language used is English.  There isn’t much that anyone can do about this.  However, as the vast majority of Americans are monolingual, it seems to me that you have us at something of a disadvantage in that you can harangue us, without comprehension on our part (let alone fear of retribution), in whatever your native language may be.  Not only will this allow you to have your say, and without contributing to what many see as unproductive flame wars but, if experience is any teacher, many of us will be stunned into a bemused silence. I grew up in a European household, albeit a transplanted one.  I have also studied a bit of history.  It is thus with complete confidence that I say I don’t believe contentiousness to be a peculiarly American trait.  If I read the books aright, various European, Africans, South Americans, Asians, and our friends in the antipodes have all crossed swords from time to time, both intramurally and internationally.  As appealing as the metaphor is though, it should be noted that what goes on here is, in fact, a bit less dramatic, not to mention downright traumatic, than outright warfare.  In truth, it is no different than what can be observed to this day in the marketplaces and other public fora of Istanbul, Seattle, Paris, Sao Paolo, Canberra, Beijing, and a thousand other places.  Moreover, as divisive as it all must seem, it is VERY important to remember that what has gone on here for years, and what continues to go on now, has had quite the opposite effect of what one might imagine. Even as I write these words plans are underway for several gatherings to take place in the near future.  These events will be attended by dozen of people who have already met and enjoyed one another’s company as a direct result of participation in this forum, and dozens more who have not yet had the pleasure but will undoubtedly, if the past is any guide, come away with pleasant memories and a strong desire to do it again.  To be sure, most of these claves have occurred on American soil and been attended mostly be Americans.  But this is to be expected given the demographics.  On the other hand, the first "official" European ROFFian clave is shortly to take place.  I’m sure we ALL hope that this sets a precedent which will bear fruit in the years to come.  Even more, I am also sure that virtually all of the regular participants here harbor some hope of attending such an event and meeting their European and other international friends; for, make no mistake about it, true friendships have been built here and continue to be, whatever the dots on the screen may suggest to the contrary. It is my sincere hope that I will be among the lucky ones to greet guests from another country at one of our gatherings here some day, AND be greeted in turn at one of theirs. Wolfgang

Response:

…….And there’s me pontificating off-topic too.

Well, if ya GOTTA be ironic, ya might as well do it self-consciously!   Wolfgang thanks for stopping in!

Response:

Being one of those who read a number of discussions on ROFF in the past few months – without participating myself – I have a few remarks that might shine some light on this issue. ROFF post is limited to a small number of people, let’s say some fifty "regulars". Plus an additional number of posters who take part only occasionally. Most of them are American, some are British, only quite a few are European or from other parts of the world. To Europeans like myself – who master the English language well enough to comprehend the interesting discussions on fly-fishing topics – the discussions on other subjects than FFare not only very irrelevant and annoying but more often than not impossible to understand because they require a thorough and detailed insight in the American way of life, which we have not. Though there are a number of contributors who have interesting and valuable information both for newbies and skilled fly-fishermen it’s a pity that this forum is so often abused. (I must admit, however, that, from a more or less scientific point of view, it is interesting to observe how easily Americans cross swords and how they fight their verbal wars!) But why not deal with personal conflicts by e-mail so that Roffians who are not interested are not forced to read (and tempted to join in)! Well, my overall impression is definitely a positive one. If certain subscribers would participate in a more disciplined manner and focus on what should bring us together – flyfishing being our core business for that matter – ROFF may offer an even more suitable forum in the exchange of FFknow-how, the discussion on FF issues and the establishing of contacts between individual Roffians. I’m stepping in – still eager to learn – addicted to flyfishing (among other things) as long as I’m going strong! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any estimates. I personally know of only 3 South Africans. Just wondering’s’all. More or less impossible to tell.  The numbers also fluctuate considerably. I once heard an estimate that for every poster there may be up to ten lurkers. I have no idea if this is true. On some bulletin boards they have software to check how many people have visited etc, and on at least two I visit, the above estimate proved to be too low. Sometimes five or six people had posted, and over a hundred had read the messages without responding. It would probably be extremely difficult to do anything like this on ROFF, as newsgroups are propagated by various servers all over the globe. Finding out how many people visit the group on these servers, and collating such information, would be more or less impossible I fear. And it would subject to at least some inaccurate reporting, as well. I don’t know how many folks have multiple server access, but at least some do (I have several), and so, although I only use the one, my client checks them all and therefore, it would "ring up" several "lurkers" as having checked ROFF when, in fact, it was a regular poster’s client simply doing its job. TC, R TL MC

Response:

Any estimates. I personally know of only 3 South Africans. Just wondering’s’all. Ari Ari & Gaelle Bert                                   +27 (0) 83 232 9903 & +27 (0) 83 236 5308 +27 (0) 11 443 9984 / +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                 www.troutfishing.co.za www.africanfishing.com Physical Address: 72 Swemmer Rd, Sunningdale, 2192 Postal Address: P.O.Box 79067, Senderwood, 2145, South Africa

Response:

Any estimates. I personally know of only 3 South Africans. Just wondering’s’all.

There are 5.  Most of us are really Wolfgang’s sock puppets.

Response:

There are 5.  Most of us are really Wolfgang’s sock puppets.

And its damned uncomfortable, too. Kevin Or am I?

Response:

Any estimates. I personally know of only 3 South Africans. Just wondering’s’all. There are 5.  Most of us are really Wolfgang’s sock puppets.

Now it’s all clear! How can he keep all those balls in the air? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Any estimates. I personally know of only 3 South Africans. Just wondering’s’all.

More or less impossible to tell.  The numbers also fluctuate considerably. I once heard an estimate that for every poster there may be up to ten lurkers. I have no idea if this is true. On some bulletin boards they have software to check how many people have visited etc, and on at least two I visit, the above estimate proved to be too low. Sometimes five or six people had posted, and over a hundred had read the messages without responding. It would probably be extremely difficult to do anything like this on ROFF, as newsgroups are propagated by various servers all over the globe. Finding out how many people visit the group on these servers, and collating such information, would be more or less impossible I fear. There are obviously a large number of lurkers and visitors though. I have received large amounts of e-mail from people who never post here, asking for advice etc, and mentioning something they saw on ROFF. Many do not want to post to a newsgroup, for whatever reason, but they seem happy enough to read them. TL MC

Response:

There are 5.  Most of us are really Wolfgang’s sock puppets.

And its damned uncomfortable, too.<   Not to mention the smell.   Harry he only uses "dirty sock" puppets.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any estimates. I personally know of only 3 South Africans. Just wondering’s’all. More or less impossible to tell.  The numbers also fluctuate considerably. I once heard an estimate that for every poster there may be up to ten lurkers. I have no idea if this is true. On some bulletin boards they have software to check how many people have visited etc, and on at least two I visit, the above estimate proved to be too low. Sometimes five or six people had posted, and over a hundred had read the messages without responding. It would probably be extremely difficult to do anything like this on ROFF, as newsgroups are propagated by various servers all over the globe. Finding out how many people visit the group on these servers, and collating such information, would be more or less impossible I fear.

And it would subject to at least some inaccurate reporting, as well. I don’t know how many folks have multiple server access, but at least some do (I have several), and so, although I only use the one, my client checks them all and therefore, it would "ring up" several "lurkers" as having checked ROFF when, in fact, it was a regular poster’s client simply doing its job. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -TL MC

Response:

Being one of those who read a number of discussions on ROFF in the past few months – without participating myself – I have a few remarks that might shine some light on this issue. The majority of ROFF post is limited to relatively few people, let’s say some fifty "regulats". Plus an additional number of posters who take part only occasionally. Most Roffians are American, some are Canadian or British, only quite a few are European or from other parts of the world. To Europeans like myself  - who master the English language well enough to comprehend the interesting discussions on FF – the discussions on other subjects than FF are irrelevant, often annoying and sometimes impossible to understand because they require a thorough and detailed insight in the American way of life, which most of us have not.Though there are contributors who have interesting and valuable information both for newbies and skilled fly fishermen it’s too bad that ROFF is so often abused with crap.(I must admit, however, that it can be amazing to observe how easily Americans cross swords and how they fight their verbal wars!) But why not deal with personal conflicts by e-mail so that Roffians who hate this stuff are not forced to read (and tempted to join in). Well, my overall impression of ROFF is definitively a positive one – though I am well aware of the fact that many fly fishermen prefer to keep out of the heat, pick up the information they can use and leave it to that. If certain sunscribers would participate in a more diciplined manner and focus on what should bring us together – FF being our core business for that matter – ROFF may offer an even more suitable forum in the exchange of FF know how, discussion on FF issues and establishing contacts between individual Roffians. I’m stepping in – still eager to learn – addicted to FF (among other things) as long as I’m going strong!

Response:

Question:

The previous posts on the RRR provided a great description of the weather, the river and the activity.  This was my first smallmouth fishing opportunity as well as my first clave. Until the clave, most of my fly fishing experience was limited to largemouth and bluegills in ponds, lakes, and slow moving rivers. The clave was an outstanding introduction to fishing for smallmouths.  It was also the first time I fished a river like the Rapp – and really learned to appreciate a wading staff. It was hot and there were a number of challenges, but it was also a great learning experience.  With some coaching from Wayne and Frank Reid, I caught my first smallies, had the opportunity to try out a float tube and a kayak, and to learn a lot about heat stress.  Special thanks to Allan Epps for his help with the kayak. Bottom line – I really enjoyed the chance to meet and fish with the other clave attendees, a great group.  Looking forward to the next time – maybe trout? Thanks Al Poklemba

Response:

Al,    Glad you have you along.  That was the "newbie initiation" clave.  Hot weather, humidity, low water, high water, tough fishing, all designed to weed out the chaff.  Depending on your point of view, it will only get better.       Frank Reid

Response:

(nice TR snipped) Thanks Al Poklemba

Al, it was our pleasure to fish with such a gentleman.  I have some great small stream jaunts for Brookies in the SNP  or Mossy Creek for a spring creek experience, and the Jackson River for a big trout water experience.  Just let me know and we’ll hit the creeks! Wayne to fish is human…to release Divine!

Response:

Al,   Glad you have you along.  That was the "newbie initiation" clave.  Hot weather, humidity, low water, high water, tough fishing, all designed to weed out the chaff.  Depending on your point of view, it will only get better.      Frank Reid

smallie or two, what with the tough fishing and all.  Looking forward to seeing you next year on the Rapp. Frank (chaff) Church in Elkhart, IN bassbugr AT yahoo dot com "jes’ blowin’ in the wind"

Response:

Hey Frank baby, what’s up with the Mr. G. intro? Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Al,   Glad you have you along.  That was the "newbie initiation" clave.  Hot weather, humidity, low water, high water, tough fishing, all designed to weed out the chaff.  Depending on your point of view, it will only get better.      Frank Reid smallie or two, what with the tough fishing and all.  Looking forward to seeing you next year on the Rapp. Frank (chaff) Church in Elkhart, IN bassbugr AT yahoo dot com "jes’ blowin’ in the wind"

Response:

Question:

The Post of the Year John…whatever you’re smokin’,  PLEASE send me some. — Levi Life is anything that dies when you stomp on it.                                                         — Dave Barry

Response:

SNIPPED… <G TC R, who enjoys discussing FLY FISHING

As I reread this, I realized what happens a lot here on ROFF.  New(er) ROFFians who have been around USENET awhile have habits/quirks from other groups, some moderated, some not.  Take my addition above.  To some, it might seem to be a slam on "john" for an off-topic post, but what I mean (and some others may be familiar with this) is I am merrily going along with the off-topic discussion, but to satisfy what used to be automated "cancelbot" monitors, I mention "FLY FISHING" to be technically "on topic" and stay within the Charter.   For example, " RFI: Opinions on Bratwurst?" and the response, " I personally like X Brand, especially while FLY FISHING." Other differences are not signing posts and what appear to be short, curt answers.  ROFF is the only basically serious group I’ve ever seen that is enjoyably "all over the map" with almost no "off-topic/charter violation" wars.  What appears to be improper is simply the etiquette of many other groups.   I am not suggesting anything change in that regard, i.e., that ROFF needs to "conform" to something, nor trying to tell my "elders" how to post.  What I am doing is offering the above to perhaps suggest that otherwise decent newbies/occasional posters be cut some degree of slack until their intentions are clear – sometimes a simple "Are you serious?" can avoid a lot of bad feelings and wasted space.   I realize many consider many consider ROFF to have Darwinian rules, but it is pretty hard to play if you don’t know the rules.  I know I’ve had and caused my share of confusion, and even seen others get into it and polarize a thread over what seems like a misunderstanding. JMHO, R, who doesn’t usually eat Bratwurst while FLY FISHING

Response:

"x" to reply) says… <Snipped R, who doesn’t usually eat Bratwurst while FLY FISHING

So do you use floatant or sinker stuff to season that with… WHILE FLYFISHING! — Michael Era

Question:

Anyone got a recommendation for a nice pourvoire no more than 6 hours from Montreal? I’d like to flyfish for trout in May. Some place nice…the wife is coming too. Thanks!

Response:

<<Anyone got a recommendation for a nice pourvoire no more than 6 hours from Montreal? Pourvoire?  Housekeeping cabins?   Dave LaCourse

Response:

Howdy from Quebec: I can recommend "Pourvoirie Real Masse" in St-Zenon. It is located 2 hours from Montreal. It is a great place for easy fishing an a happy wife. All the lakes are stocked. The food is fantastic. If you are interested I can give you more information. Could be a little late for reservation for may 1999… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anyone got a recommendation for a nice pourvoire no more than 6 hours from Montreal? I’d like to flyfish for trout in May. Some place nice…the wife is coming too. Thanks!

Response:

dave –  i think "pourvoire" is one of them fancy words frequently used by Jim Roberts (a/k/a pamlico jim)  after an evening at the Villa Roma Bar, (jim begins talkin some kind of foreign language after a couple hours), ‘cept he pronounces it "pervoir"…as in…"damn, ya’ll, i think that there fella’s a pervoir"…you don’t want to put jim in any pervoir cabin, i assure you…  (seems there ought to be a pourvoire closer than 6 hours from montreal though) …course, it might be that the word really means "i see you pour forth" or "i watch you urinate", in which case the guy using it is a "pervoir"…but it might be that somebody simply misspelled the thing and meant "Pourboire", which is a tip for a good drink, which is just fine with me, and jim i suppose. (sorry to intrude, but the whiskey got me goin and i just couldn’t help myself…) jeff

Response:

Howdy from Quebec: I can recommend "Pourvoirie Real Masse" in St-Zenon. It is located 2 hours from Montreal. It is a great place for easy fishing an a happy wife. All the lakes are stocked. The food is fantastic. If you are interested I can give you more information. Could be a little late for reservation for may 1999… Anyone got a recommendation for a nice pourvoire no more than 6 hours from Montreal? I’d like to flyfish for trout in May. Some place nice…the wife is coming too. Thanks!

For those who dont know what "pourvoirie" means… "Outfitter"  Michel

Response:

well hell…if he’d said "pourvoirie", we’d all have understood…but he said "pourvoire"…aarrgg…don’t you just hate it when that happens… jeff

Response:

Got a web site I could look at? Also, I don’t like boats much. Can I use my waders here? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Howdy from Quebec: I can recommend "Pourvoirie Real Masse" in St-Zenon. It is located 2 hours from Montreal. It is a great place for easy fishing an a happy wife. All the lakes are stocked. The food is fantastic. If you are interested I can give you more information. Could be a little late for reservation for may 1999… Anyone got a recommendation for a nice pourvoire no more than 6 hours from Montreal? I’d like to flyfish for trout in May. Some place nice…the wife is coming too. Thanks!

Response:

With Real Masse you will be fishing in lakes. Fishing is from 8 am to 5 pm.  Traveling from lodge to lake is by golf cart…. they clean and pack  your fish… followed by a "gastronomic meal"…. This is the place where fishermen take there non fishing wife… not the wild canadian outback. If this is not what you are looking I can give you the phone number of "Sentier Chasse et Peche" (Or I could mail you a copy). "Sentier chasse et peche" is a hunting and fishing magazine here in Quebec. Finally I can also suggest to contact Orvis fly fishing shop in Montreal. They can provide information. They also organize fishing trips.   Boutique Salmo Nature (Orvis) 110 McGill Montreal 514-871-8447 Regards – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Got a web site I could look at? Also, I don’t like boats much. Can I use my waders here? Howdy from Quebec: I can recommend "Pourvoirie Real Masse" in St-Zenon. It is located 2 hours from Montreal. It is a great place for easy fishing an a happy wife. All the lakes are stocked. The food is fantastic. If you are interested I can give you more information. Could be a little late for reservation for may 1999… Anyone got a recommendation for a nice pourvoire no more than 6 hours from Montreal? I’d like to flyfish for trout in May. Some place nice…the wife is coming too. Thanks!

Response:

Question:

Hi Folks, after all the e-mails enquiring as to my reasons for ceasing to subscribe

Gentlemen and Ladies, I am moved by the loss of the best among us. I have filed Mike’s post in a place where I’ll be able to find it next time I feel like launching a salvo. Hope we can all do the same. sniff…..

Response:

I have simply made a personal decision not to subscribe.

Good to see your byline again, Mike, even if for the last time.  best wishes….. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Mike Connor wrote [final farewell snipped] Huge loss for ROFF.  I’ll miss your wit Mike.

Response:

Mike Connor Honi soit qui mal y pense.

George Visit: http://www.gink.com

Response:

Hi Folks, after all the e-mails enquiring as to my reasons for ceasing to subscribe to the news groups generally and ROFF specifically, and although I was of the opinion that I had made my reasons quite clear, here they are once again. The subject is now closed for me. I will not answer any further e-mails on this subject, it would serve no useful purpose. E-mails to the various websites or bulletin boards to which I contribute are also a waste of time, as I will not discuss the matter further. I would be most obliged if you would consider this, especially in the chat rooms where I am on line, nobody is interested in the matter, and it just wastes time and annoys people. I will also not join in discussions denigrating ROFF, or any of its contributors under any circumstances whatsoever. If you have a problem with somebody on ROFF then talk to them or take it to e-mail with the people concerned, I have no interest in the matter. I have no personal axe to grind as far as ROFF is concerned, I still think ROFF is basically  great actually, I have simply made a personal decision not to subscribe. The reasons are listed in order of importance, just in case anybody wants to know exactly, as it appears quite a few do. 1.  I cannot afford to pay for the downloading of large amounts of spam. This is purely  a financial criteria, and is by far the most important one. Without attempting to define spam, I mean anything which may generally be described as crap, be it multiple senseless posts, or direct commercial misuse of usenet. This simply costs me a lot of money which I do not have in amounts sufficient to waste on this nonsense. Before anybody else sends me tips for saving money on usenet, do me and yourself a favour, forget it. Most of the ideas are not practicable, and as I pay metered rates for on line time, sometimes not even possible. 2. I see no point in allowing myself to be insulted or provoked by people whose main interest in life seems to be annoying or upsetting  as many people as they can in the shortest possible time. Especially when it is just nasty and not even remotely amusing. This runs contrary to the spirit of the newsgroup, and continuing to pay out good money for this sort of thing would mean I would have to have a screw loose, this is fortunately not the case. 3. I am my own man, I do what I do, say what I say, and think what I think, I do not like it much when people attribute my words or actions to reasons they have dreamed up themselves, and attempt to prove their invariably faulty conclusions in print on a public forum. I am nobodies sycophant. I also resent it deeply when people make stupid or annoying or simply false statements based on posts I or others have made, where it is perfectly obvious that they have either not read the posts properly or are lacking the wherewithal to understand them. 4.  The informational and amusement content of the newsgroups seems to be deteriorating in direct proportion to the amount of ill mannered and ignorant persons subscribing to them. I would tend to avoid such people in private life, ( the "bar" analogy ), and see no reason why I should not follow this eminently sensible policy elsewhere also. 5.  There are too many people who want to control all sorts of things, up to and including what other people may or may not post. Usenet is in my opinion one of the last bastions of true free speech, to those who can not accept this, or attempt continually to misuse it, I can only say you are not ready for freedom of speech.  Freedom of speech allows you to say what you like when you like to whoever you like, like many great things it should be exercised with manners and self-control if it is not to degenerate into a senseless insulting free for all, even more so on a relatively  anoymous medium like usenet.  If some of the things said on here in the past were indeed said in a bar, then the people responsible would certainly be looking for a new set of teeth at the very least, and a good thing too. Unfortunately as I am unable to come into even remote striking distance of the aforementioned dental accoutrements, I find it better to remove myself from the sphere of influence, whether a bar or usenet is immaterial. 6.  I was indeed extremely angry at the amount of direct e-mail spam I received as a result of the ill considered efforts of one ROFF contributor in distributing my e-mail address to commercial spammers. I am prepared to accept that this was a mistake, the person concerned apologised profusely and sincerely,and I am no longer angry at him.  This was not my main reason for leaving the group, just an extra annoyance. 7. I was ever more dismayed at the number of trolls obviously designed to get a rise out of somebody or provoke a useless argument, which turned nasty fairly quickly, I see no point in this, and I imagine it is just some perverse form of entertainment, in which only perverts would indulge, especially in view of the anonymous nature of the whole thing. Purposely pissing off someone you dont even know for enjoyment strikes me as being perverse in the  extreme, and I prefer to keep my distance in such cases. 8. The comment from many  posters that anybody who posts in public forums should expect to be insulted and must develop a thick skin is in my opinion a symptom of their own perversity and lack of manners. I expect to be treated at least with good manners. When this is not the case I have several options usually. In this particular case, retiring from the field is probably the most sensible. 9.  I was of the opinion that groups such as ROFF provided a service and source of information on the subject at hand, and everything even remotely related to it. I attempted to subcribe in this spirit, as I assume most others also do.  This attempt met  with far more negative criticism and insulting responses than I would have hoped it might, and this was extremely disappointing. This also contributed to my decision to leave. I hope this clears up any wierd ideas, misconceptions, or even downright lies as to why I no longer subscribe, and that the subject is now definitely closed. I welcome personal and private e-mail on any and every subject under the sun, and I am happy to help anybody at all if it lies within my power, however as I already said on at least one other occasion, enquiries which start with the words "How do I start fly-fishing" or similar all embracing questions are beyond my power to answer in a couple of e-mails, and anybody who thinks he can become a good flyfisherman by studying a potted set of answers from one person, or even a group of people, or watching videos etc, ought to take up tennis, or bowling or something similar. The only way to become a good flyfisherman is to go and do it, read as much as you can, talk to as many flyfishers as you can, and try out what they say, advice on specific problems will always be available. One of the greatest attractions of flyfishing is the fact that however much you learn, and however good you become, there is always something new to learn, the possibilities and facets are infinite.  Flyfishing is not just a hobby like embroidering cushion covers, or weaving carpets, as a way of killing time, it is a philosophy, a religion, a way of life. It is hard work all the way, but absolutely fascinating, entrancing and enslaving. Thanks again for all your e-mails, I am surprised ( and of course pleased ! ) that my leaving a forum like this could generate such a furore which lasts such a long time. I obviously made a positive and pleasant impact on at least some of you, as indeed many of you did on myself. It is very pleasant to get such support and encouragement mostly from people I have never met , and probably never will, I met some lovely people on the groups, I enjoyed myself, and I learned an awful lot, but I will not return to any of the newsgroups, if only to prove some of the ignorant and insulting people  wrong who e-mailed me telling me what a pompous over educated ( If only they knew !!! )ass I am, and that I would doubtless return at some point. I would not like to give such people the satisfaction of being right, even if I got usenet access for free ! Tight lines ! Mike Connor Honi soit qui mal y pense.

Response:

Question:

I surf a lot of newsgroups because of varied interests: computers, boats, backpacking, motorcycles, science, and fishing. By far this NG has been the most enjoyable and informative. Flyfishers are definitely a unique group. Good fishing to all of you.

Response:

I surf a lot of newsgroups because of varied interests: computers, boats, backpacking, motorcycles, science, and fishing. By far this NG has been the most enjoyable and informative. Flyfishers are definitely a unique group. Good fishing to all of you.

I guess that just shows that it isn’t necessarily the topic that determines the quality of a newsgroup (though there are obvious exceptions) but the people that contribute to it.  This group has more then it’s share of quality contributors. John Fereira Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email – Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.

Response:

I surf a lot of newsgroups because of varied interests: computers, boats, backpacking, motorcycles, science, and fishing. By far this NG has been the most enjoyable and informative. Flyfishers are definitely a unique group. Good fishing to all of you. Stick around – You might even learn to like fly fishing! Jon Porter

  Jim Shearer writes: I am new to your news group and am enjoying a great deal. A lsot of info. so I will continue to be present. A little about myself: I have been tying flies for 46 years and have gone semi-commercial,planning on going commercial 100 % sometime in after I retire in July of 98. I losve going and tying for new flyfishers a conclaves and am always interested in new flies and materials. If you think you can learn all of this sport in 46 years FORGET IT. I hope to have a long and enjoyful career of fly fishing and tying for many years to come. Thanks for the group. Jim Shearer The Goofus Bug 6302 W 11 th Ct. kennewick,WA 99338 If no one has tried it and has time to read 100 plus messages a day try : We enjoy fly swaps and a lot of info.. So much info. per day I have to shut down the list from time to time to get time to tie flies. Enjoy.

Response:

Question:

THIS IS MARK GIBSON FROM COQUITLAM. I HAVE LIVED IN THE LOWER MAINLAND OF B.C. FOR 20 YEARS AND FISHED LOTS OF PLACES. THE END OF JULY IS THE BEST TIME TO FISH IN THE LOWER MAINLAND. I READ THE MESSAGE THAT THE OTHER GUY SENT (DIDN’T GET THE NAME) BUT HE DID NOT TELL YOU THE HOT SPOTS. THE FRASER RIVER IS TEEMING WITH SALMON. THERE ARE 50 POUND CHINOOK AND 20 POUND COHO BUT THE BIG ATTRACTION IS THE HUGE RUN OF SOCKEY. THESE FISH CAN GET TO BE 10 POUNDS AND PUT UP A GREAT SCRAP. THE RUN THIS YEAR WILL BE BIGGER THAN EVER. 20 MILLION ARE EXPECTED. LAST YEAR WE HAD 4 MILLION AND I CAUGHT FISH EVERY OUTTING. USE A PEACE OF LIGHT GREEN WOOL IN THE LOOP OF A BAIT KNOT, 3 FOOT LEADER, SWIVEL, AND SOME PENCIL LEAD. AN 8 FOOT ROD AND A LEVEL WIND REAL, (I USE A DIAWA MILLIONAIRE) IS THE BEST EQUIPMENT TO USE. THIS YEAR I AM GOING TO USE A WET LINE, FEW SPLITSHOTS AND A GREEN FLY. A SOCKEY ON A FLY ROD WILL BE WICKED. OH, AND WHAT THE OTHER GUY SAID IS TRUE BUT THE BEST FISHING IS NOT IN THE CAPILANO; THE VEDDER (CHILLIWACK), CHEHALIS, AND BEST OF ALL THE FRASER. IF YOU COULD, WRITE BACK AND TELL ME ABOUT THE FISHING WHERE YOU ARE. PS      CHECK THE REGS BEFORE YOU GO OUT AND USE A BARBLESS HOOK; CATCH AND RELEASE IS THE BEST WAY TO FISH. TIGHT LINES MARK GIBSON

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – THIS IS MARK GIBSON FROM COQUITLAM. I HAVE LIVED IN THE LOWER MAINLAND OF B.C. FOR 20 YEARS AND FISHED LOTS OF PLACES. THE END OF JULY IS THE BEST TIME TO FISH IN THE LOWER MAINLAND. I READ THE MESSAGE THAT THE OTHER GUY SENT (DIDN’T GET THE NAME) BUT HE DID NOT TELL YOU THE HOT SPOTS. THE FRASER RIVER IS TEEMING WITH SALMON. THERE ARE 50 POUND CHINOOK AND 20 POUND COHO BUT THE BIG ATTRACTION IS THE HUGE RUN OF SOCKEY. THESE FISH CAN GET TO BE 10 POUNDS AND PUT UP A GREAT SCRAP. THE RUN THIS YEAR WILL BE BIGGER THAN EVER. 20 MILLION ARE EXPECTED. LAST YEAR WE HAD 4 MILLION AND I CAUGHT FISH EVERY OUTTING. USE A PEACE OF LIGHT GREEN WOOL IN THE LOOP OF A BAIT KNOT, 3 FOOT LEADER, SWIVEL, AND SOME PENCIL LEAD. AN 8 FOOT ROD AND A LEVEL WIND REAL, (I USE A DIAWA MILLIONAIRE) IS THE BEST EQUIPMENT TO USE. THIS YEAR I AM GOING TO USE A WET LINE, FEW SPLITSHOTS AND A GREEN FLY. A SOCKEY ON A FLY ROD WILL BE WICKED. OH, AND WHAT THE OTHER GUY SAID IS TRUE BUT THE BEST FISHING IS NOT IN THE CAPILANO; THE VEDDER (CHILLIWACK), CHEHALIS, AND BEST OF ALL THE FRASER. IF YOU COULD, WRITE BACK AND TELL ME ABOUT THE FISHING WHERE YOU ARE. PS      CHECK THE REGS BEFORE YOU GO OUT AND USE A BARBLESS HOOK; CATCH AND RELEASE IS THE BEST WAY TO FISH. TIGHT LINES MARK GIBSON

I think Ralph’s answer was based on the the original post requesting for fishing spots within mountain biking distance from Vancouver.  I agree Chehalis and Vedder are hot spots but they are a little far for biking.  Good post though. — The views expressed are my own and does not represent those of my employer.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – THIS IS MARK GIBSON FROM COQUITLAM. I HAVE LIVED IN THE LOWER MAINLAND OF B.C. FOR 20 YEARS AND FISHED LOTS OF PLACES. THE END OF JULY IS THE BEST TIME TO FISH IN THE LOWER MAINLAND. I READ THE MESSAGE THAT THE OTHER GUY SENT (DIDN’T GET THE NAME) BUT HE DID NOT TELL YOU THE HOT SPOTS. THE FRASER RIVER IS TEEMING WITH SALMON. THERE ARE 50 POUND CHINOOK AND 20 POUND COHO BUT THE BIG ATTRACTION IS THE HUGE RUN OF SOCKEY. THESE FISH CAN GET TO BE 10 POUNDS AND PUT UP A GREAT SCRAP. THE RUN THIS YEAR WILL BE BIGGER THAN EVER. 20 MILLION ARE EXPECTED. LAST YEAR WE HAD 4 MILLION AND I CAUGHT FISH EVERY OUTTING. USE A PEACE OF LIGHT GREEN WOOL IN THE LOOP OF A BAIT KNOT, 3 FOOT LEADER, SWIVEL, AND SOME PENCIL LEAD. AN 8 FOOT ROD AND A LEVEL WIND REAL, (I USE A DIAWA MILLIONAIRE) IS THE BEST EQUIPMENT TO USE. THIS YEAR I AM GOING TO USE A WET LINE, FEW SPLITSHOTS AND A GREEN FLY. A SOCKEY ON A FLY ROD WILL BE WICKED. OH, AND WHAT THE OTHER GUY SAID IS TRUE BUT THE BEST FISHING IS NOT IN THE CAPILANO; THE VEDDER (CHILLIWACK), CHEHALIS, AND BEST OF ALL THE FRASER. IF YOU COULD, WRITE BACK AND TELL ME ABOUT THE FISHING WHERE YOU ARE. PS      CHECK THE REGS BEFORE YOU GO OUT AND USE A BARBLESS HOOK; CATCH AND RELEASE IS THE BEST WAY TO FISH. TIGHT LINES MARK GIBSON I think Ralph’s answer was based on the the original post requesting for fishing spots within mountain biking distance from Vancouver.  I agree Chehalis and Vedder are hot spots but they are a little far for biking.  Good post though. — The views expressed are my own and does not represent those of my employer.

I believe I’ve blabbed excessively about the "50 million" salmon returning to the Fraser previously. This years sockeye run is hoped to be 500% bigger than last year. Unfortunately if it proves true it virtually guarentees 10 times the number of anglers will go after them. While large numbers of salmon return to the Chehalis and Vedder rivers each summer and fall so do equally large numbers of fishermen (and women). Anyone who is travelling to this area and hopes to sample those fisheries while here, I strongly urge that you arrange your fishing time to fall during the week days to avoid the worst of the crowds Ralph H replace "spamsucks" with direct for email reply.

Response:

Question:

Any experiences with Gore-Tex waders in saltwater? I want to replace a hot sweaty and heavy pair of Gralites.

Response:

I have several friends who used Simms/Gore-Tex waders this past summer while fishing stripers in Maine–  no problems.

Response:

I have several friends who used Simms/Gore-Tex waders this past summer while fishing stripers in Maine–  no problems.

Hi I’ve guided using Simms GorTex wader the past couple of year.  They are the best thing I’ve done for myself in the interest of comfort in year.   They are definitely worth the price when you compare to your personal comfort. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog)

Response:

Question:

If you fish, boat, camp, hunt or anything to do with the great

outdoors and have friends that do the same, why not start your  OWN business with little or know cost to you? < The IRS does make a distinction between a hobby business and a real business. You may be asked to demonstrate that it is a real business and not just supporting your hobby. Just because you have the legal paperwork that shows it to be a "business" doesn’t mean that the IRS has to accept it. The small tax savings will be more than offset by the cost of an audit. You are just making yourself a target.

Response:

My name in Norm Larsen and I’d like to tell you a fishing story!! A couple of week ago a friend of mine came to me and asked me if I fished, I said sure I fish, why? Well he said: " if I could show you how you can deduct your fishing, camping, boating and hunting expenses from your income tax AND earn an income would you like to here about it? That was a no-brainer  for me, so I asked him to show it to me. He proceeded to show me of the most  interesting companies I had ever seen, The companies called Champion Fishing    Co.  based out of  Texas. They have a 197 page catalog that is full of outdoor  equipment. All name brand gear like Mitchell, Fenwick, Remmington etc. By October of this year they’ll have golfing, mountain bike and organized sporting equipment too!! I thought it made since to buy my gear from myself than from someone else! They have the simplest compensation plans I have ever seen too! There’s no start-up fees, no inventory, no quota’s , no organizational  tracking and no weekend deliveries!! Everything is shipped direct to the buyer. The recreational fishing industry is a $69.4 BILLION dollar a year business with 60 million people. That doesn’t include the Pro- Fishing industry, boating, camping or hunting!! Champion Fishing Co. has been growing at a fantastic rate. The number of reps has tripled since last October. Some states only have a few reps so were talking ground floor, "once in a life time opportunity"! If you fish, boat, camp, hunt or anything to do with the great outdoors and have friends that do the same, why not start your  OWN business with little or know cost to you? If would like more info on this program, please contact me by return email with your address and I’ll send you some info. If you give me your phone number I’ll call you a week or so after I send to answer any questions you may have. Sincerely, Norm Larsen

Response:

Question:

Fabulous blue, striper and false albacore fly rod fishing at the point. Huge schools of blues hitting all day long (4-10 lbs.), bass averaging about 10-15 lbs with some as large as 35 lbs,  Albacore in and out of the blue schools hitting like  subway trains.  Incredible fly rod fishing both off the surf, jetties and especialy from small boats just outside the surf line.  Should get even better in the next few weeks.

Response:

10/10 I was at Montauk Point yesterday and it was incredibly crowded. For safety sake, I kept my 9wt  out of the action. Stripers and blues were around all day, largely within reach of only the longest surfcasters. When they came in close, it was a free for all. I watched one guy hook a 30 inch striper and then get hooked himself by an errant surfcaster as he fought the fish. It was wild as usual!  Flyfishers in boats were getting their gas money’s worth of action Nothing much was doing at Gin Beach, Ditch Plains or Fort Pond Bay during daylight hours. Where have you had your luck? David

Response: