Question:

"Peter Duniho"  wrote Look at the crew count.  Even with a small passenger list, a 737 is probably not going to take off with just one flight attendant.  Every flight I’ve been on, on a plane that size, they’ve had at least two flight attendants, just because the first class passengers want one all to themselves.

The number of seats (not passengers) determines the minimium required Flight Attendants.  One FA for each 50 seats or portion thereof. Bob

Response:

The number of seats (not passengers) determines the minimium required Flight Attendants.  One FA for each 50 seats or portion thereof.

The smallest (least number of seats) airplane the mainline United flies is the a 737 with a configuration of 104 passegner seats.   Three flight attendents are therefore assigned. The Dornier 328 is the smallest jet used by the United Express carriers (at about 32 seats, quite an intersting plane by the way).  The propstreams are the smallest at about 29 seats (perhaps one of my least favorite airlinesr).

Response:

The number of seats (not passengers) determines the minimium required Flight Attendants.  One FA for each 50 seats or portion thereof.

Thank you.  My point exactly.

Response:

Several years back, we and another pilot couple were camped on the beach next to a runway on a tiny little island in the Bahamas.  No services, small fishing village, a couple of "yacht club" places which served food to boaters passing through. What island was this?

Farmer’s Cay. Very nice but haven’t been back since a hurricane went through. Sydney

Response:

Definitely doesn’t sound like a 737/DC-9 or larger. Mighta been a bad day.   Been on one international flight (Finnair) where coincidentally there were more cabin staff than pax.  It was great! That accounts for the 19 passengers, but United doesn’t fly anything that only has 3 crewmembers (remember to count the flight attendents).

Quite right – I missed that Even a 737 gets two pilots and (I’m pretty sure) three flight attendents.

Yeah – as someone pointed out, the ratio is one per 50 seats – in the US and most other places, I gather.   Here in Oz it’s presently 1 per 35, but the airlines are starting to agitate to get it increased to 1 to 50 while the FAs are resisting (naturally), pointing out that elderly and kids require considerably more attention than healthy adults, etc, etc.. IMO in an accident the more trained FAs available the better!

Response:

The first FA is required at 20 seats, that’s why all those Metroliners have 19 seats. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The number of seats (not passengers) determines the minimium required Flight Attendants.  One FA for each 50 seats or portion thereof. Thank you.  My point exactly.

Response:

the better!

It certainly increases the odds of not getting slam-clickers on a RON. However, in a serious situation, some well-trained F/As freak out in a panic and are useless. Until they experience a real emergency, they are untested and an unknown quantity. D.

Response:

the better! It certainly increases the odds of not getting slam-clickers on a RON.

However, in a serious situation, some well-trained F/As freak out in a panic and are useless. Until they experience a real emergency, they are untested and an unknown quantity.

True – but at least they have had the training.

Response:

the better! It certainly increases the odds of not getting slam-clickers on a RON. However, in a serious situation, some well-trained F/As freak out in a panic and are useless. Until they experience a real emergency, they are untested and an unknown quantity.

The same can be said about some pilots.

Response:

the better! It certainly increases the odds of not getting slam-clickers on a RON. However, in a serious situation, some well-trained F/As freak out in a panic and are useless. Until they experience a real emergency, they are untested and an unknown quantity. D.

Same with captains, Captain!

Response:

It certainly increases the odds of not getting slam-clickers on a RON. However, in a serious situation, some well-trained F/As freak out in a  panic and are useless. Until they experience a real emergency, they are untested and an unknown quantity. Same with captains, Captain!

Same with any other member of the flight crew (Cap’t FO FE). Until the chips are down and the fit hits the shan we’re all untested unknown quantities. Cheers, Sydney

Response:

Definitely doesn’t sound like a 737/DC-9 or larger. Mighta been a bad day.   Been on one international flight (Finnair) where coincidentally there were more cabin staff than pax.  It was great!

That accounts for the 19 passengers, but United doesn’t fly anything that only has 3 crewmembers (remember to count the flight attendents). Even a 737 gets two pilots and (I’m pretty sure) three flight attendents.

Response:

Several years back, we and another pilot couple were camped on the beach next to a runway on a tiny little island in the Bahamas.  No services, small fishing village, a couple of "yacht club" places which served food to boaters passing through.

What island was this?

Response:

Mighta been a bad day.   Been on one international flight (Finnair) where coincidentally there were more cabin staff than pax.

Look at the crew count.  Even with a small passenger list, a 737 is probably not going to take off with just one flight attendant.  Every flight I’ve been on, on a plane that size, they’ve had at least two flight attendants, just because the first class passengers want one all to themselves. Pete

Response:

To my knowledge, only mainline United uses the United callsign. Commuter turboprops use the callsigns assigned to their company’s certificate. You are, of course, correct (AFAIK) about the callsign.  I think though, that the main point was identifying the type of plane as the kind typically used for commuter flights.  Three crew and 19 passengers does seem to indicate some sort of smaller aircraft, whether it’s a turboprop, Jetstream, or what have you. Definitely doesn’t sound like a 737/DC-9 or larger.

Mighta been a bad day.   Been on one international flight (Finnair) where coincidentally there were more cabin staff than pax.  It was great!

Response:

I’d imagine that for the typical airline customer, having to make an early landing due to an engine failure would be a pretty traumatic event.  Not the sort of thing that would go unremarked.

I don’t know. Several years back, we and another pilot couple were camped on the beach next to a runway on a tiny little island in the Bahamas.  No services, small fishing village, a couple of "yacht club" places which served food to boaters passing through. The next morning, several trucks pulled up and a bunch of typical middle-aged well-to-do people with lots o’ luggage got out.  We started chatting.  Seems they were there buying property with the notion of developing a resort, and were awaiting a charter flight out.  They seemed like typical, risk-averse, average airline customers. Their mount arrived, and I do mean "arrived".  A C310.  Got blown off the rwy centerline into the shrubby trees on short final, landed with vegetation dangling from the landing gear and the L main fuel tank (tip tank) trailing fuel through a gap around the smashed nav lights. The captain, a distinguished-looking silver haired gentleman, got out and surveyed the shrubbery.  Next thing I knew, the pax were cheerfully loading up their luggage and climbing aboard.  The fact that their pilot had just hit a tree, that the plane was streaming fuel from one of its main tanks, that the undercarriage may have been damaged, might not retract, and once retracted might not extend, meant nothing to them. Pilot was willing to fly, must be safe, they were rarin’ to go. And go they did, using every inch of runway (it was pretty short for a C310).  Between the luggage and the 6 of ‘em I doubt they were under gross.  Maybe over.  Godspeed! I think most people’s risk assessment is so skewed that they’re very fearful if the plane is delayed while a gauge or a light is repaired, but loss or damage to big important parts like engines and main fuel tanks might not bother them much more. Cheers, Sydney

Response:

In article 1:25 PM PDT, as I was over Malibu monitoring SoCal frequency heard United fight ask to return to LAX. I suspect this was a computer plane, probably turbo prop, To my knowledge, only mainline United uses the United callsign. Commuter turboprops use the callsigns assigned to their company’s certificate.

Yep.  I hadn’t thought of that before.  I was too busy thinking about shoes…or fish. In LA, had it been a United code share commuter, the callsign would more likely have been SkyWest, unless Mesa is still in the area, in which case it would have been Air Shuttle.  If the callsign was United, then it really was United.

Response:

To my knowledge, only mainline United uses the United callsign. Commuter turboprops use the callsigns assigned to their company’s certificate.

You are, of course, correct (AFAIK) about the callsign.  I think though, that the main point was identifying the type of plane as the kind typically used for commuter flights.  Three crew and 19 passengers does seem to indicate some sort of smaller aircraft, whether it’s a turboprop, Jetstream, or what have you. Definitely doesn’t sound like a 737/DC-9 or larger. Pete

Response:

I was on a United 737 that had an engine quit.  Total non-event.  Returned to O’Hare and got on another flight.  Guess that’s why they have two engines.  Media doesn’t care unless there is blood and guts.

Many years ago I was on a TWA 747 that lost an engine on climb-out from Logan, with a loud bang. We turned back and landed with the trucks chasing us, but we made a normal egress. Nothing in the press. It seemed to me at the time that they idled the other three engines for a while (so we were, basically, gliding over Boston Harbor). I may have been mistaken, being busy comforting the children. Is that part of the attempted restart procedure? (aftermath: TWA found another 747 at JFK and flew it up to BOS, opened a door to let the meals in, and the escape chute fell out. Oh, damn, now we can’t use that door, where are we going to find a 747 door this time of night? Oh look, there’s another one over there with a bad engine but a perfectly good door… eventually the 6pm flight left at 2am but kudos to TWA; they put a lot of effort into not canceling the flight).

Response:

1:25 PM PDT, as I was over Malibu monitoring SoCal frequency heard United fight ask to return to LAX. I suspect this was a computer plane, probably turbo prop,

To my knowledge, only mainline United uses the United callsign. Commuter turboprops use the callsigns assigned to their company’s certificate. D.

Response:

While en route Fullerton to Oxnard today about 1:25 PM PDT, as I was over Malibu monitoring SoCal frequency heard United fight ask to return to LAX. Controller asked if they were declaring an emergency and reply was "yes, lost an engine."  Controller then asked how many soles on board, reply "19 with three crew." I suspect this was a computer plane, probably turbo prop, and LAX was probably 95-100 degrees at the time.  I had to change frequencies so never heard end result.  Nothing on news or on Internet that I can find.  Anyone know anything about it?  Perhaps this happens more often then we ever hear about… Scott

I was on a United 737 that had an engine quit.  Total non-event.  Returned to O’Hare and got on another flight.  Guess that’s why they have two engines.  Media doesn’t care unless there is blood and guts.

Response:

[...] Controller then asked how many soles on board, reply "19 with three crew." Well, the one-armed man may still be missing, but at least we’ve found the one-legged man.

Hah! Thanks for that. Now I can sleep! — Jeff Cook http://www.cookstudios.com Video Editing, Avid Training & Web Design Based in Washington DC

Response:

Sorry for not actually knowing anything pertinent to your comments.  :)  I doubt that an engine failure on a commercial flight happens a lot more than we hear about, since even if the news doesn’t pick up on it right away, almost always one of the passengers would eventually get around to saying something. I’d imagine that for the typical airline customer, having to make an early landing due to an engine failure would be a pretty traumatic event.  Not the sort of thing that would go unremarked.

Incidents might happen more than we think, although I also think that engine failures are rather rare. I know of one occasion where a colleague of mine was on board, the way he described the flight was a bird-strike in one of the engines, followed by a shutdown of that engine and a return to the airport. This never made it into the news. A friend of mine once, as a co-pilot, aborted a takeoff due to an engine problem, I did not read anything in the news about it either. And why would we, in these cases the crew apparently handled the situation properly, and actually nothing important happened. At the following link you can find incident descriptions involving Dutch aircraft, engine failures seem to be quite rare, but a return to the airport from where they came seems to happen every now and then: http://www.minvenw.nl/ivw/divisieluchtvaart/nla/veilig_mil/htm/incide… (Although the page is in Dutch, most of the actual incident descriptions are in English) Best regards, Peter

Response:

[...] Controller then asked how many soles on board, reply "19 with three crew."

Well, the one-armed man may still be missing, but at least we’ve found the one-legged man. I suspect this was a computer plane, probably turbo prop, and LAX was probably 95-100 degrees at the time.

As far as I know, all of United’s airplanes are real.  Not a single computer plane among the bunch. Sorry for not actually knowing anything pertinent to your comments.  :)  I doubt that an engine failure on a commercial flight happens a lot more than we hear about, since even if the news doesn’t pick up on it right away, almost always one of the passengers would eventually get around to saying something. I’d imagine that for the typical airline customer, having to make an early landing due to an engine failure would be a pretty traumatic event.  Not the sort of thing that would go unremarked. Pete

Response:

While en route Fullerton to Oxnard today about 1:25 PM PDT, as I was over Malibu monitoring SoCal frequency heard United fight ask to return to LAX. Controller asked if they were declaring an emergency and reply was "yes, lost an engine."  Controller then asked how many soles on board, reply "19 with three crew." I suspect this was a computer plane, probably turbo prop, and LAX was probably 95-100 degrees at the time.  I had to change frequencies so never heard end result.  Nothing on news or on Internet that I can find.  Anyone know anything about it?  Perhaps this happens more often then we ever hear about… Scott

Response:

Question:

… I dislike intensely the the get-rich-quick spams, the porno spams, and the like, but this one was pretty innocuous. Lighten up, Ken. Lifting email addresses from a Usenet newsgroup to use in mass mailings is not innocuous. If that’s what flyfishamerica is doing, and it appears that they are, it’s shameless at best and at worst unethical.

They are definitely getting it from ROFF.  I use this account only for usenet and sure enough I had one here.  Fastest way to make sure they never get any of my business.  Send complaints to Later,      - Ken

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … I dislike intensely the the get-rich-quick spams, the porno spams, and the like, but this one was pretty innocuous. Lighten up, Ken. Lifting email addresses from a Usenet newsgroup to use in mass mailings is not innocuous. If that’s what flyfishamerica is doing, and it appears that they are, it’s shameless at best and at worst unethical. They are definitely getting it from ROFF.  I use this account only for usenet and sure enough I had one here.  Fastest way to make sure they never get any of my business.  Send complaints to

With all due respect, I think you guys are going overboard here. Just send a POLITE email to flyfishamerica explaining the error of their ways. If they don’t stop then you can go thermonuclear. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … I dislike intensely the the get-rich-quick spams, the porno spams, and the like, but this one was pretty innocuous. Lighten up, Ken. Lifting email addresses from a Usenet newsgroup to use in mass mailings is not innocuous. If that’s what flyfishamerica is doing, and it appears that they are, it’s shameless at best and at worst unethical. They are definitely getting it from ROFF.  I use this account only for usenet and sure enough I had one here.  Fastest way to make sure they never get any of my business.  Send complaints to With all due respect, I think you guys are going overboard here. Just send a POLITE email to flyfishamerica explaining the error of their ways. If they don’t stop then you can go thermonuclear.

With all due respect, nobody’s going thermonuclear.  They are being handled the same way every other spammer gets handled.  I get unsolicited email, they and their administrator gets an email complaint.  I am forced to maintain separate accounts because pieces of @#%^ spammers pull things like this.  If they can send me crap, I can certainly send them an email back.  I do not send spammers email directly as this usually just confirms to them that they have a valid address and gets you more email.  The same does for those BS, reply to be unsubscribed messages.  They are usually just trolling to get responses so that they can send you more spam. For anyone who is interested, there is a free service that does email forwarding for you so that you can complain without your address being collected.  Go to www.abuse.net and read the FAQ for details. They even have some scripts to automate the process of finding the real address and composing the complaint.  I’ve been using them for over a year now and am up to 750 complaints.  There’s no reason to put up with spam and quite frankly opt-out is BS (somebody has a sig with that in it). And that concludes the monday morning rant session.  :-)      - Ken

Response:

Anybody else get SPAM from flyfishamerica.com ? — Ken Fortenberry

yeah, i got one. i also got one about 2 months ago. it’s too bad they are resorting to that, they don’t need to. where do you think they got their mailing list? walt — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com http://auctions.yahoo.com/booth/ezflyfish_com Used, Rare, & Out-of-Print Books: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

Response:

I posted to ROFF in an attempt to ascertain if they obtained my email address from ROFF. I still don’t know how I "landed on" their list but I’d be curious to know. — Ken Fortenberry

I’ve been getting spam from some flyfishing place lately, but I just deleted it.  Don’t know if it’s from flyfish america or not.  I wouldn’t be suprised if ROFF gets scanned once  in a while. — Levi Life is anything that dies when you stomp on it.                                                         — Dave Barry

Response:

Maybe it was only for "bud" drinkers.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody else get SPAM from flyfishamerica.com ? — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Just checked my trash can…fly fish america it is. — Levi Life is anything that dies when you stomp on it.                                                         — Dave Barry

Response:

THAT’S the $64,000 question. I hope it’s not ROFF but what does a Unix weenie from Illinois, a cop from Colorado and a super model from North Carolina, (nice shot of you on pg 104 of Orvis, Walt) have in common besides ROFF ?

We all drink beer? That’s the ticket. Maybe our brains were scanned by ECHELON at the check-out counter at the Cork and Barrel? Or what do you get when you cross a sysadmin from Illinois, a cop formerly from Illinois, and a supermodel from North Carolina? (Next Clave, I’ll buy a six pack for whoever comes up with the best punchline to that one. It has to be available in Denver, though.) Opt out == cop-out. What’s so hard to understand?

Response:

THAT’S the $64,000 question. I hope it’s not ROFF but what does a Unix weenie from Illinois, a cop from Colorado and a super model from North Carolina, (nice shot of you on pg 104 of Orvis, Walt) have in common besides ROFF ?

it’s pretty obvious where they got the list. i canned mine when it arrived, like i do with the other 30 or so spams i get every day. i initially thought it was b/c of my com address, but now i’m certain that they have scanned roff for addresses. shame really, they have a good and informative free magazine that they make available to ff’ers. walt — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com http://auctions.yahoo.com/booth/ezflyfish_com Used, Rare, & Out-of-Print Books: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

Response:

Well, this infrequent poster didn’t get that message.  So, either the spamblocker in my reply-to address works, or my ISP is doing a good job of blocking spam.  I suspect maybe a little of both.  They must be using good address cleaning to remove the blocker in Mr. Erana’s address…  Or maybe they’re getting their list  from somewhere else? –Stan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody else get SPAM from flyfishamerica.com ? Yup. — Michael Era

Question:

I am a flyfishing newbie.  Can someone recommend a good video which teaches the basics of flycasting?  I’m mostly going to be fishing saltwater using 9 weight and heavier rods, casting streamers.  I would especially like to learn to "double haul" and "spey cast".  Thank you for your replies.                                                           Spy in Hawaii

Response:

You might try http://www.troutangler.com and ask Zane or Tom about a video. I’m think they could recommend one to you. — happy trails, Mike & Vivian Foate Rocking Horse Ranch Arvada, Wyoming be sure mosey through our online/ranch bookstore and our music CDs and movies shop! http://www.rockinghorseranch.com

Response:

Question:

I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water.  My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

      My favorite fishen hole is in a little canal off the St.John’s river. right under the I-4 bridge as it rises to cross the river and people are always pulling off 17/92 where it goes along side Lake Monrow. They get used to it. If you got room to cast, the water looks right go fishen.                                                          John Popp                                                      in Sanford Fl.

Response:

That’s the key… it’s right on the way home from work!    I used to have that situation with a beautiful little mountain lake.  It was a mile down a dirt road, right on the way home from work.  I brought my float tube to work every day.  If the weather got shitty and I didn’t get to fish for a day or two on the way home, I started getting very irritable — withdrawl symptoms! You’re lucky to have a place like that, I think.

Yea, it is nice this time of the year, it’s the other six months I get tired of. I commute over a 7800′ mountain in some of the most incredible snow storms you can imagine! I guess the hard Winters are what makes this time of year especially enjoyable.  I can’t believe I have waited so long  (14 years) to take up fly fishing, late bloomer I suppose!  So much time to make up for, but I am up to the job!!! Rich

Response:

Rich, The water in the Carson is too rough for a little vibration from a truck or car to bother the trout.  Both forks of the Carson are good fly fishing streams. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO http://users.ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water.  My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

Response:

Set up hard on a 3 inch brook trout sending it into the windshield of a passing car…. "Jeeeeeezus Martha….Didja see THAT bug…criminy  !" — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Set up hard on a 3 inch brook trout sending it into the windshield of a passing car…. "Jeeeeeezus Martha….Didja see THAT bug…criminy  !"

    For a moment I thought this was a response to the "Frying Pan, Roaring Fork" thread. Reminds me of some of the lower water on the Pan. Tom Christian External Technology Program Hewlett-Packard Laboratories 3404 East Harmony Road Fort Collins, CO 80528-9599 Phone: (970) 898-3531 FAX: (970) 898-6198

Response:

My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks.

I don’t think fish can hear the noises that we on the bank can hear but they can feel vibrations and river bed disturbance. Some of my best fish have been caught immediately under a UK motorway bridge (a very busy dual carriage way road).  The noise drives me up the wall but the fish don’t seem to notice it – at least, they favour the deep pool below / under / above the bridge.  But they know all about it if I stumble through the pool in the dark in my studded waders… Street lights are also a problem for those of us who fish for sea trout by night. I’ve heard that migratory fish are intimidated by bridges and other over-water structures.  Anyone have any knowledge / theories on this? — Phil Jones

Response:

The water in the Carson is too rough for a little vibration from a truck or car to bother the trout.  Both forks of the Carson are good fly fishing streams.

Almost too rough for a newbie! Tried it with a weighted wooly bugger and single split shot. Never even felt the bottom!

Response:

Last August I was on highway 50 heading back to SF from Tahoe.  This road runs along the (North Branch?) American River which looked fishable along certain spots.  It’s a two lane highway with loads of traffic and about 40′ above water level.  Parked alongside the road I could spot several trout beside a large boulder less than 5 feet from shore.  Traffic didn’t seem to be bothering them.  Mu Young Lee         Ann Arbor, MI  o             oooo                          o   o   o o   o o o  o – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water.  My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

Response:

This is a tough time of year to fly fish any of the Sierra streams.  It will get better around the end of June.   — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO http://users.ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The water in the Carson is too rough for a little vibration from a truck or car to bother the trout.  Both forks of the Carson are good fly fishing streams. Almost too rough for a newbie! Tried it with a weighted wooly bugger and single split shot. Never even felt the bottom!

Response:

I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water.  My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

Response:

I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water.  My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

What’s the water like?  Whitewater drowns out other noise VERY well.  I’ve fished on the Wilson in Oregon, highway 6 runs right along the river.  Standing near the whitewater with a tree or two to hide the cars and you’d think you were in the middle of nowhere.  On the other hand, the sound of the water can get "deafening" after a while.  I’m used to it, but my brother was visiting and had to leave for a bit to let his ears stop ringing. Why don’t you go try it and see?  If you like it, stay, if not try to find somewhere else. Later,      - Ken

Response:

What’s the water like?

Right now it’s it’s fairly fast due to snow melt off, in fact I think it’s too deep for good fishing although I have tried it up river a bit.  I will definately try it as a bit at a time.  I figure it will be  great way to unwind on the way home from work this summer!  

Response:

What’s the water like? Right now it’s it’s fairly fast due to snow melt off, in fact I think it’s too deep for good fishing although I have tried it up river a bit.  I will definately try it as a bit at a time.  I figure it will be  great way to unwind on the way home from work this summer!

That’s the key… it’s right on the way home from work!    I used to have that situation with a beautiful little mountain lake.  It was a mile down a dirt road, right on the way home from work.  I brought my float tube to work every day.  If the weather got shitty and I didn’t get to fish for a day or two on the way home, I started getting very irritable — withdrawl symptoms! You’re lucky to have a place like that, I think. Bob Scott

Response:

Rich,     The fish are probably acclimated to the road noise and not bothered by it at all. I’ve fished spots much closer to the road and I’m sure I’m not the only one in the group to get spooled on the back cast (a Ford in my case).             Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water. My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

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Question:

My dad is coming from Europe in August and he is very interested in fishing ONE salmon, something that he has never done before.  I was wondering if someone knows a good place to go in Maine and stay there for 2-3 days.  I have been looking through the internet but everything seems so "organized" that it is pathetic.  They give you a "cabin" (a mini hotel), make your beds, cook your food, show you around, etc…..and I am looking (if I can find it of course) for something more simple and uncivilized. I just want a cabin right next to a river where nobody bothers us, no maids, no lodge meals…etc.  if anyone knows of such a place I would like to know about it.  If this place doesn’t exist, suggestions for more "civilized" places will be also appreciated.  Thank you very much for your help! -Emilio …Y entre los muertos habra siempre una lengua viva para decir que Zaragoza no se rinde……

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My dad is coming from Europe in August and he is very interested in fishing ONE salmon, something that he has never done before.  I was wondering if someone knows a good place to go in Maine and stay there for 2-3 days.  I have been looking through the internet but everything

There are two kinds of Maine salmon fishing, for Atlantic (sea-run) salmon and for resident (landlocked) salmon.  Chances of an Atlantic salmon are very small: they run mostly in June-July.  August is the relatively poorest month for landlocks, but a reasonable prospect, best in the most distant and lightly-fished streams e.g. headwaters of the Penobscot R.  Your problem then may be travel time. Another special problem is Maine’s "trophy" regulations which (I interpreted when last there, 1994) mean that on most famous rivers you are supposed to stop fishing after landing one landlocked salmon.   A special and different place is Grand Lake Stream in SE Maine (Washington County?), a short river between two big lakes, with a couple of hotels, campsites etc.  I have not been there for 15 years, but there used to be very good fly fishing in that river all summer long, for landlocks and trout as well as bass, besides canoe-borne lake fishing too.  This might be the best place to take a visitor from overseas — if the quality of the sport is anything like it used to be…. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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If you are ready to consider the province of Quebec (just north of the Maine border), I think you could easily find what you are looking for… As a starting point, I suggest you the pages "Hunting and Fishing in the province of Quebec (Canada)" http://www.ojori.com/outdoor/ehunt.htm Look particularly to the region of Gaspesia which is the closest "salmon fishing region" to Maine. Jo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My dad is coming from Europe in August and he is very interested in fishing ONE salmon, something that he has never done before.  I was wondering if someone knows a good place to go in Maine and stay there for 2-3 days.  I have been looking through the internet but everything seems so "organized" that it is pathetic.  They give you a "cabin" (a mini hotel), make your beds, cook your food, show you around, etc…..and I am looking (if I can find it of course) for something more simple and uncivilized. I just want a cabin right next to a river where nobody bothers us, no maids, no lodge meals…etc.  if anyone knows of such a place I would like to know about it.  If this place doesn’t exist, suggestions for more "civilized" places will be also appreciated.  Thank you very much for your help! -Emilio …Y entre los muertos habra siempre una lengua viva para decir que Zaragoza no se rinde……

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Emilico writes:

<<My dad is coming from Europe in August and he is very interested in fishing ONE salmon, something that he has never done before. Consider Lakewood Camps on the Rapid River.  Yes, they feed you (damn well too), and the cabins are primitive (rustic?).  The fishing for landlocks is good, although August would not be my choice.  This is fly fishing only, catch and release. Phone Sue and Stan Milton at 207-243-5959.  It is about a 3 hour drive from Boston. Dave LaCourse

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I second the recomendation of Lakewood Lodge on the Rapid River. You may find it to be a bit crowded though. The Rapid has been discovered.

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<<The Rapid has been discovered. Oh, it has been discovered a long, long time ago, but *conquered* by  only a few.   The importance of Lakewood Camps is that without them, most of us could not fish the Rapid.  If Lakewood survives, my favorite spot in the whole world survives.  Without Lakewood, I couldn’t fish the river Long live the Rapid River and its Lakewood Camps.  BTW, I have never been at Lakewood when it was truly crowded.  I have been on the river when it was crowded, but curiously, only Lakewood folks, or others who have been on the river for years, were catching fish.  And I have caught fish next to guides and their clients who were catching zilch!  And continued to catch ZILCH for three days.  Wonderful river, the Rapid!  :0) Dave LaCourse

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<<The Rapid has been discovered. Oh, it has been discovered a long, long time ago, but *conquered* by  only a few.

Ain’t that the truth! ;^) The importance of Lakewood Camps is that without them, most of us could not fish the Rapid.  If Lakewood survives, my favorite spot in the whole world survives.  Without Lakewood, I couldn’t fish the river

I second the motion. Stan and Sue run a wonderful camp in a gorgeous location. The only down-side is the cooking is just too good (no matter how hard I wade, or how far down the Carry Road I roam, I still manage to gain more than 5 pounds in a long weekend!) Long live the Rapid River and its Lakewood Camps.  BTW, I have never been at Lakewood when it was truly crowded.  I have been on the river when it was crowded, but curiously, only Lakewood folks, or others who have been on the river for years, were catching fish.  And I have caught fish next to guides and their clients who were catching zilch!  And continued to catch ZILCH for three days.  Wonderful river, the Rapid!  :0)

Wonderful indeed. But everyone reading this is hereby sworn to secrecy! Tell no others about this river and it may have a prayer of remaining a lovely river to visit… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.               Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus                      Maynard, Massachusetts < < !!NOTE: Remove the "BB" from my address to respond by email!!  < <<<<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely to be                     shared by my employer, etc…

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Question:

I want to take just a moment to thank the people who tried to connect for the Wednesday evening chat session.  Unfortunately, FlyFishAmerica’s Web Page Chat option just didn’t work quite the way we wanted it to.   I hurriedly configured an alternate means but unfortunately not everyone had Java enabled browsers.  So in the interim until the folks at FlyFishAmerica can come up with an alternate means of chatting we will connect via IRC Client Software.  In other words you will need mIRC, WsIRC for IBM Clones, or Homer and IRcle for Mac’s. In configuring set your irc server to: 206.230.8.18, on port 6667. We will chat Wednesday Feb 5, at 18:00 MST or 20:00 Eastern Joe

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to take just a moment to thank the people who tried to connect for the Wednesday evening chat session.  Unfortunately, FlyFishAmerica’s Web Page Chat option just didn’t work quite the way we wanted it to. I hurriedly configured an alternate means but unfortunately not everyone had Java enabled browsers.  So in the interim until the folks at FlyFishAmerica can come up with an alternate means of chatting we will connect via IRC Client Software.  In other words you will need mIRC, WsIRC for IBM Clones, or Homer and IRcle for Mac’s. In configuring set your irc server to: 206.230.8.18, on port 6667. We will chat Wednesday Feb 5, at 18:00 MST or 20:00 Eastern JoeForgive me for being computer illiterate, but, what is and irc server?  

Where do you get it?  Is it software?  More info. please. John

Response:

connect via IRC Client Software.  In other words you will need mIRC, WsIRC for IBM Clones, or Homer and IRcle for Mac’s. In configuring set your irc server to: 206.230.8.18, on port 6667. We will chat Wednesday Feb 5, at 18:00 MST or 20:00 Eastern JoeForgive me for being computer illiterate, but, what is and irc server?   Where do you get it?  Is it software?  More info. please. John

John if you are using an IBM Clone then go to http://www.tucows.com and in the area for text chat download a program called mIRC.  It is pretty easy to set up.  mIRC will allow you to connect to IRC (Internet Relay Chat)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to take just a moment to thank the people who tried to connect for the Wednesday evening chat session.  Unfortunately, FlyFishAmerica’s Web Page Chat option just didn’t work quite the way we wanted it to. connect via IRC Client Software.   In other words you will need mIRC,WsIRC for IBM Clones, or Homer and IRcle for Mac’s. In configuring set your irc server to: 206.230.8.18, on port 6667. We will chat Wednesday Feb 5, at 18:00 MST or 20:00 Eastern JoeForgive me for being computer illiterate, but, what is and ircserver? Where do you get it?  Is it software?  More info. please. John if you are using an IBM Clone then go to http://www.tucows.com and in the area for text chat download a program called mIRC.  It is pretty easy to set up.  mIRC will allow you to connect to IRC (Internet Relay Chat)

Hello all… Sorry for the troubles we had before but they are now behind us. I re-wrote the FlyFishAmerica.com chat area, it has been fixed, it supports a lot more users and is wicked fast. It does not require any downloading or special software and is based on SERVERside Java which does not even require a Java enabled browser. Bob Stewart http://www.flyfishamerica.com/chat/chat.html

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I guess this question is for Al Beatty as much as everyone else.   Are we gonna try to chat Wed. evening again?

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I guess this question is for Al Beatty as much as everyone else. Are we gonna try to chat Wed. evening again?

Hi Joe Why don’t you start the chat and I’ll join in if I can. I have a fly tying class to teach and I’m not sure how long it will take. By the way I sure like your IRC server you showed me yesterday, it was great. Thanks much for sending me the soft ware. Good Tying &…. (the bobbin is on the way). — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Where is the chat session going to be held from now on? John

Response:

John: It is up in the air right now…..FFAmerica is in the process of working on their chat section ontheir page.  Til then try in your irc client to connect to: Server: 206.230.8.18 Port: 6667 Channel #FlyTyer Wednesday’s at 8:00pm EST – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where is the chat session going to be held from now on? John

Response:

Question:

I am new to FF and live in the Lynchburg area. I am looking for those who would like to swap stories, go cast flys, or trade favorite spots. Ralph Browning

Ralph, How long have you been flyfishing? My wife bought me my rod about 2-3 years ago, and I’ve been hooked ever since. I live a short distance from the Shenandoah, and the Potomac rivers in Loudoun County; the smallmouth fishing is superb. What kind of fishing do you like to do? You’ve got plenty of it right near where you live also. I’ve ventured off into the Blue Ridges several times chasing small mountain brookies, and loved it. VA is a state where you can find fish about anyplace you think you might. This year was tough with all the rain we had and the flooding. Life preservers were the local fly patterns. Seriously, I’m hoping the weather is more "normal" in 1997. We saw the local rivers rise to alarming heights. I went out on some of the local creeks and small streams and hardly recognized them afterward. Some of my favorite deep pools were now sand bars, and visa-versa. There were just incredible log jams and flood damage. Funny thing though…the fish were all there pretty much where they were before. How do they do that? Keith in Waterford, VA (near Leesburg)

Response:

I am new to FF and live in the Lynchburg area. I am looking for those who would like to swap stories, go cast flys, or trade favorite spots. Ralph Browning

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Question:

Every time I drive from TN to NC, I look down at the Piegon River near the border by the Waterville exit.  I remember hearing that most the fish left the river due to the discharges of the Canton paper mill in Canton, NC.  Now that the mill has cleaned up it’s discharge, does anyone know if the river supports any fish? If so, do you know what patters work in this area? Thanks in advance. Steve

The Pigeon River is still on Tennessee’s (ever-growing) list of places you shouldn’t eat fish from.  I’m not sure if fishing is allowed, or if you have to catch and release, or if it’s one of Tennessee’s areas that you’d just be better off not eating fish from (kind of like the Clinch River from Oak Ridge down to five miles below where it enters the Tennessee…)   The problem is that the dioxin discharged from Canton accumulated in the sediments that the insects live in and eat.  So the trout there very efficiently concentrate this dioxin by eating lots of insects. I understand Tennessee is trying to get the river dredged out and cleaned up, but naturally the North Carolina government doesn’t care to hurt its people’s jobs for a fishing stream 45 miles away.  Looks like another drawn-out Superfund kind of battle, with not much chance of a clean-up in sight. I think I remember the warning/prohibition lasts all the way downstream to Douglas Lake. Hope this helps.         Pat

Response:

Every time I drive from TN to NC, I look down at the Piegon River near the border by the Waterville exit.  I remember hearing that most the fish left the river due to the discharges of the Canton paper mill in Canton, NC.  Now that the mill has cleaned up it’s discharge, does anyone know if the river supports any fish? If so, do you know what patters work in this area? Thanks in advance. Steve

Response:

The Dioxin Dry fly pattern works best.  It’s a three headed fly best fished with care  not to touch the fly, line, rod or water.  I agree the river is beautiful, but 30-40 years of uncontrolled pollution does not clean up in one year. The only people Champion Paper company is fooling are fools who are suckered into their commercials on TV.  If your truly interested in fishing the area for trout write me at:  Phil –    

Response:

The Dioxin Dry fly pattern works best.  It’s a three headed fly best fished with care  not to touch the fly, line, rod or water.  I agree the river is beautiful, but 30-40 years of uncontrolled pollution does not clean up in one year. The only people Champion Paper company is fooling are fools who are suckered into their commercials on TV.  If your truly interested in fishing the area for trout write me at:  Phil –    

 I thought it was more than 30-40…didn’t they open the mill in 1908?   Just curious. *                                                                       * *                                                                       * *  ENTOMOLOGIST          ANTIQUE TACKLE COLLECTOR        ALL-AROUND NUT * *                  _____/  O                                           * *                                  |                    |               * *                                  |                    |               * *                                  |                 _/ _/            * *                               _/ _/                                 *

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Question:

 I may be relocating to the Richmond, Virginia area soon and would appreciate any information ya’ll may have regarding FF Clubs / Organizations there.    This is an exciting possibility for me as I’ve never been east of my Texas Gulf coastline. I trust and hope the ethics & traditions of brother anglers are alive and well in the fine Eastern areas of the United States! Once again, any information is highly appreciated. Thanks Ya’ll. TEM

Response:

The Virginia Capital Chapter of Trout Unlimited meets on the 4th tuesday of the month at 7:30 pm at the Central Fidelity Bank north of McRea Rd in Bon Air, VA.  It’s just off Huguenot Rd across from Stony Pt. Plaza.

Response:

TEM If you like smallmouth fishing the James River is one of the best in the South and I’m sure you will find the ladies and gentlemen the same as where you came from. Welcome to the Southeast. Richard Warren Raleigh, NC

Response:

Welcome to Virginia.  We are a Flyfishing Guide and Instruction Service company named….. Flyfishing Virginia, L.L.C.  We post a weekly (well almost) column entitled, "This Week Flyfishing Virginia" where we post the results of all of our guides for the past week.  What’s hot and what’s not.  Stay tuned.  Again, Welcome to a state where you can flyfish 12 months of the years.  Bob Crawshaw and Ron Bennett,  Flyfishing Virginia L.L.C.  804-467-6668

Response:

Question:

I’d like to hear if others have received replacements from Cortland (or your local fly shops).  Has the problem been fixed? (I just bought a Lazer 4wt.) Your thoughts will be appreciated. TK

My Lazerline began cracking after about 3 or 4 uses. Cortland  will replace cracked lines (through the shop from which it was purchased, if you prefer, and if they have them in stock, this way is quickest).  However, although Cortland has claimed to have fixed the problem, the manager of the local fly shop from which my line was purchased claims that 1 in 3 replacement lines still come back prematurely cracked.  I will continue to have mine replaced as long as I can get an immediate replacement at Cortland’s expense, but I’ll never purchase another Lazerline. GPS

Response:

I also have difficulty with laserline cracking.  I had a 4 wt., 7 wt., 9wt. all crack after very little fishing time.  I thought it was my fault for storage.  I asked at the fly shop where I bought them and he said there had been only one other complaint.  All in all I would say the line cracked in about 1/2 the time I usually get out of a fly line. FlyphishR

Response:

Had my laserline crack within the first year, also (they used to call it Lasterline, but had to change the name). My vote’s for SA SUPREME, if you can trust a line that doesn’t cost you $50! Have a Triangle taper on a reel I don’t use much…it did not revolutionize the way I fish, and am not sure that I can roll cast any better on it than any other line, although maybe it shines on LONG roll casts, something I am not prone to attempt… Lon C. Diehl

Response:

My 8wt Laserline fractured at the point where the line came off the reel after my average cast. The break in the coating was clean and the core remained intact.  After a call to Courtland a replacement quickly arrived. The new line (2nd season now) seems better. HH — Harrison Hubard,Jr. 202 Berkshire Rd Richmond,Va 23221

Response:

I was recently informed by a fellow fly fisherman that lazerline in his experience began to crack quite prematurely. As i am considering updating my lines this year I would appreciate any info. Also what about  Lee Wulfs triangle taper?comments? cheers — gp

Your fellow fly fisherman put you on the right track!  The Cortland444-lazerline does not hold up.  Right away you can tell something is wrong with line- it feels rough through the rod guides- and decreases over all casting accuracy at distances over twenty-five feet of so.  Cracking makes itself present after just a few months of normal use.                      *  As You Marinate your Sean R Borgerson   *  Melon With My Words…        Vancouver, WA.    *  …I’ll Be Matching the                    *  Hatch On The River Of                    *  Choice        

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yes I have had that problem too.  I’m just going to wait and go back to a SA mastery 3.  Which I feel casts much better anyway.  

Response:

I was recently informed by a fellow fly fisherman that lazerline in his experience began to crack quite prematurely. As i am considering updating my lines this year I would appreciate any info. Also what about  Lee Wulfs triangle taper?comments? cheers — gp

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I have had extreme cracking problems with my 3 wt lazerline.  They have been nice enough to replace it THREE times, but it is a real pain waiting.

Response:

Mt dad sent his Laser lines back to Cortland and they replaced them for free.  Said that early models had plastic compound problems.  Send ‘em back, bet yu get afree one (oh yeah, you’ll owe me a beer for the advice!)

Response:

I was recently informed by a fellow fly fisherman that lazerline in his experience began to crack quite prematurely. As i am considering updating my lines this year I would appreciate any info. Also what about  Lee Wulfs triangle taper?comments?

I had a 6wt. lazer that I REALLY liked…after about 8 months it began cracking and was soon un-fishable.  I didn’t think too much of it and replaced it with another brand (simply because I was on a trip at the time and that’s all I could get…I would have prefered another Lazer).  I had no idea others were experiencing the same problem and never thought of sending it back to be replaced   I’d like to hear if others have received replacements from Cortland (or your local fly shops).  Has the problem been fixed? (I just bought a Lazer 4wt.) Your thoughts will be appreciated. TK

Response:

writes: I have had extreme cracking problems with my 3 wt lazerline.  They have been nice enough to replace it THREE times, but it is a real pain waiting.

Is anyone having this problem with Cortland’s other lines?  Incidently, I have heard about this problem from guides I fish with.

Response:

I just purchased a Lazer Line from my local shop. The owner convinced me that it was his favorite line because it was supple. He said the Courtland people said they had some trouble with their early lines but had fixed the problem. He said if the line wore out too soon he would replace the line. Richard Warren Raleigh, NC

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