Question:

Have planned a week here during  early July 2002 and would love to know if there are any opportunities to do any flyfishing. Your wisdom and experience would be appreciated !! Thanks,

Response:

Have planned a week here during  early July 2002 and would love to know if there are any opportunities to do any flyfishing. Your wisdom and experience would be appreciated !!

Thom, I visited St. Lucia in 1992. I had a great time, but never went flyfishing. If you are into scuba diving and/or snorkeling, you can’t beat the coral canyons  there! I wish I had more info for you. It’s a beautiful island nation. Be sure to take your camera and a polarizing filter. The waters off the island are truly tropical. Good luck! Danny McMillin — Danny McMillin — Remove XX from email address to reduce spam.

Response:

Question:

Anyone who has had experience with the Dagger Venture 17, Dagger Passage, or Grumman 17′ Falcon double ender canoes, I would be greatly interested in function, reliability, and overall strengths of each.

Response:

  I have owned a Venture 17 for about a year and a half and have been very satisfied with it.  We use it mainly for canoe camping, fishing and general relaxation rather than whitewater(we have other boats for that).   It paddles easily and can carries a large load.     I think I paddled a Passage while shopping for a canoe.  If it is the boat I am thinking of, (fairly long and made of some new light weight material) I didn’t like it.  The hull flexed enough that it seemed to absorb a lot of the power from each paddle stroke.  It also did not turn easily.  On the plus side it is light for its length, which makes getting it from the car to the water easier.         My first boat was a Grumman and I would not recommend an aluminum boat in this day and age with all of the other boats to choose from. I see that someone has posted a message about the drawbacks of aluminum.  You shoul look at it.    

Response:

Looking to buy a canoe. What do I need to keep in mind? Who are some manufacturers? How much? Thanks.

I’m shopping also. I think you will get better help if you say a bit more about who you are and how you expect you expect to use the canoe.  The people who post here seem to vary widely — there are lots of whitewater folks, but not all.  Just be yourself. Then go get a Bell.  The lighter the better.  

Response:

Although Marathon boats are indeed well made, reasonably priced and are durable, they are not well-suited for moving water with rocks; aluminum has a rather pronounced ‘rock grabbing’ property in that it does not glance off of obstructions, but instead tends to form around them and hold on. Hence, I figure Aluminum boats are ’specialty boats’, better suited for lake use. Grummans are not specialty canoes.  They are low cost, durable, general purpose canoes that used to be the workhorses of Canada’s north. They are noisy, always too cold or hot, ugly, tough, not affected by weather or UV, practical.

Well, in the sense that they are not highly-engineered, high tech material, computer designed to be the best at a narrow range of useages specialty boats, I agree. But they are definately not competitive as ‘all purpose’ boats for the reason you gave: they aren’t that good for running rivers. They were Canada’s workhorses because Aircraft aluminum was the first best option to wood strips or canvas: both of which were too fragile for the everyday user. When Grumman opened the door to general purpose canoeing, they offered durability, low maintenance and low cost. But now, all those things are in ABS boats, with less hull memory, less noise, and better hull shape. I would offer that ‘flatwater tripping canoes’ and your kevlar Clipper are specialty boats also; highly designed for a special purpose. I think an OT Kennebec or Discovery, MR Explorer (OK, its pricey), BH OCA or a host of other ABS boats are better suited for general purpose than a Grumman. Don’t get me wrong: if I had a camp in the boonies with a lake at the door, I’d probably want a Grumman with a motormount tied up at the dock, for the ambiance if nothing else. But to keep in my backyard, in town, to toss on the car for weekend river trips, to take on various lakes, for the occasional ocean paddle, to have as my all-purpose haul around boat…I don’t think its best suited for that. But YMMV, especially as I know your own tripping experience qualifies your opinions as being ‘well informed’. riverman

Response:

I’ve been to the Swift  factory store, and saw their full line of canoes, swift canoes are truly beautiful. Give them a first look. their great to deal with. Looking to buy a canoe. What do I need to keep in mind? Who are some manufacturers? How much? Thanks. — Val Girolamo Design Engineer ASMAT Precision Mold Builders A Foster Group Company P: (716) 247-3556 xt. 217 F: (716) 247-7892

– Perry Chamberlain Liv’n on de Edge n de Desert Everyone has someone in their family who is crazy, if you don’t know who it is, its you!

Response:

on the keyboard and ended up with: I think you will get better help if you say a bit more about who you are and how you expect you expect to use the canoe.  The people who post here seem to vary widely — there are lots of whitewater folks, but not all.  Just be yourself.

Well Harry, for the touring folks, there also is "Rec.Boats.Paddle.Touring", although a bunch of the touring people have hung around ever since the original RBP received its two subgroups (RBP.WhiteWater is the second one). Then go get a Bell.  The lighter the better.  

<puzzled look Wilko — Eindhoven            The Netherlands            Europe             "Look Mum: No Sense!"      

Question:

I have been reading many of the long threads on this newgroup and I have just one question: How do so many of you know each other so well?? Just curious. Dustin

Response:

Hang around for a while. Participate, argue, share ideas, get out on a limb, be an asshole, get huffy, find out you don’t know it all, etc.. The fairly normal way people get to know something of one another outside of family. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been reading many of the long threads on this newgroup and I have just one question: How do so many of you know each other so well?? Just curious. Dustin

Response:

I have been reading many of the long threads on this newgroup and I have just one question: How do so many of you know each other so well?? Just curious. Dustin

        because roff is darwinian. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I have been reading many of the long threads on this newgroup and I have just one question: How do so many of you know each other so well?? Just curious. Dustin         because roff is darwinian. wayno

______  Roffians are all psychologists who have wives that can’t keep secrets?

Response:

        because roff is darwinian. wayno

actually wayno… it’s dahlwhinnian –waldo — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

I have been reading many of the long threads on this newgroup and I have just one question: How do so many of you know each other so well?? Just curious.

It’s just a matter of time.   There are quite a few "regulars" who post here frequently.   After reading a few thousand posts, you get a pretty good feel for who is intelligent, cultured, experienced, helpful or otherwise.   In reading the discussions, you’ll see who puts forth substantial, well-reasoned arguments and who is just a rectum.   Throughout the course of these exchanges over a wide variety of topics, you also pick up some personal information such as where we live, who is married, what we like to eat (and drink, especially drink), and what we drive.   A while back, there was even a "Who Am I" thread where many ng members abandoned their cyber anonymity and offered a short bio. The friendships (and disagreements) which have grown here at our individual keyboards also led to a ROFF conclave in May of this year where many heretofore unaquainted ROFFians actually met on the streams of North Carolina for a week of fishing, drinking, male bonding, and a few other things I’m not sure about.   Those fortunate few who attended now have faces to match the screen names and forged new friendships and respect.   (I regret I was not among them.) There’s a fine bunch of fellows here; and even if I don’t know what they look like, I’d be pleased to wet a line or quench my thirst with any of ‘em. Joe Fleischman Bel Air, MD (See, you learned something about me.)

Response:

I have been reading many of the long threads on this newgroup and I have just one question: How do so many of you know each other so well?? Just curious. It’s just a matter of time.   There are quite a few "regulars" who post here frequently.   After reading a few thousand posts, you get a pretty good

feel     (meaningful response snipped) Joe Fleischman Bel Air, MD (See, you learned something about me.)

    i didn’t know you were a doctor from los angeles! wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

   i didn’t know you were a doctor from los angeles!

LOL.   For a while, I was often mistaken for a TV doctor in Alaska. Joe

Response:

Or you could go to the clave and meet face to face. Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hang around for a while. Participate, argue, share ideas, get out on a limb, be an asshole, get huffy, find out you don’t know it all, etc.. The fairly normal way people get to know something of one another outside of family. Dave I have been reading many of the long threads on this newgroup and I have just one question: How do so many of you know each other so well?? Just curious. Dustin

Response:

We have the same interest. Fly Fishing and Fly Tying. Thus , we know each other. Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been reading many of the long threads on this newgroup and I have just one question: How do so many of you know each other so well?? Just curious. Dustin

Response:

yea, Big Dale, but what about the parties you get to and the controlled substances that keep coming your way.  There is an upside, you know.  Except, of course, at the Almond Boat Dock, where it’s your soul they want to save. Mark Faulkner

Mark, We all missed you at the wed, thur, and fri eve prayer meetins’. Heard tell you were at that house of sin, that den of depravity, that fuliginous pavillion on the isthmus of time, little waynos   waldo It could be worse Joe…I am still mistaken for Jerry Garcia, which realy bothers me because I thought he was STILL DEAD!!!!! Big Dale

– Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

Big Dale stroked. "It could be worse Joe…I am still mistaken for Jerry Garcia" Long silence. Fire on the mountain. I’ll keep that in my head today as the Western Slope is ablaze and the USFS helicopters fill the air. No doubt of some powerful orange sunsets this evening. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

substances that keep coming your way.  

Sorry to disappoint you Mark,but I gave up the controlled substances over 25 years ago. I was always more into the wacky weed way back in my hippie days. I still enjoy the parties, but depend mostly on import beers, single malts, and sucking on a big bottle of gin.  On another subject it seems to me that the guy that got out of rehab and took up flyfishing and fly tying and reported that it was only slightly more expensive than drugs was still extremely naive. Big Dale

Response:

We have the same interest. Fly Fishing and Fly Tying. Thus , we know each other. Paul

        ok, asadi, that "paul" disguise don’t fool ol’ wayno… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

yea, Big Dale, but what about the parties you get to and the controlled substances that keep coming your way.  There is an upside, you know.  Except, of course, at the Almond Boat Dock, where it’s your soul they want to save. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It could be worse Joe…I am still mistaken for Jerry Garcia, which realy bothers me because I thought he was STILL DEAD!!!!! Big Dale

Response:

It could be worse Joe…I am still mistaken for Jerry Garcia, which realy bothers me because I thought he was STILL DEAD!!!!! Big Dale

Response:

Question:

 I’m curious about the Cabelas Dry Plus – the article implied that the neoprene feet are too thin and will invite leaks. Has anyone had a problem with this? Sam

I have used the Cabelas Dry Plus waders for a year now and I have not had any problems. I tend to do a lot of walking when out on the stream and they have held up great. They have neoprene knee pads which is nice.  They also come with a patch kit that includes the same material that the waders are made out of. If you get a leak you just iron this material into the waders – kind of melts together on the inside. Good luck, Greg

Response:

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I picked up the article on breathable waders in Fly Rod and Reel, and it was pretty informative. As always, there’s a tradeoff – between breathability, durability, and price. Find a match for any two of the variables and it might not match the third one. According to the article, Orvis Clearwaters sound the best for breathability/price but sacrifice puncture resistance. (But the warranty is nice.) The Hodgemans sounded like a good deal in that price range also. I’m curious about the Cabelas Dry Plus – the article implied that the neoprene feet are too thin and will invite leaks. Has anyone had a problem with this? Sam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There appears to be two typesof breathable waders; the gortex at $300 plus, and the Orvis type, now carried by many companies, at $129 to $160.  Orvis was first out with these they were mostly a dark green color.  I had a pair that worked fine until I lent them to my wife.  Then they developed  three holes in the seat.  Orvis replaced them free of charge.  LL Bean carries them and they guarantee there goods  beyond most companies. I liked them but they are too cold for float tubing, even with long underwear. JackKowalski e t… Here’s yet another equipment question: This topic has probably been covered here previously, but I’m looking for a breathable wader for hot spring/fall fishing in the Southwest. Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make a breathable wader in the $160 price range. Does anyone have any feedback they could give me about quality of these two, how well they’ve held up over time, etc? Thanks, Sam

Response:

There is an article on breathable waders in the current issue of "Fly Rod & Reel".  They seemed to be most impressed with the Hodgman’s of the Cabela’s, Hodgman’s and Orvis. JS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – test t… Here’s yet another equipment question: This topic has probably been covered here previously, but I’m looking for a breathable wader for hot spring/fall fishing in the Southwest. Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make a breathable wader in the $160 price range. Does anyone have any feedback they could give me about quality of these two, how well they’ve held up over time, etc? Thanks, Sam

Response:

very well made. writes: I’m wondering how well they’d hold up when float tubing. I won’t be doing a whole lot of float tubing, but I wonder whether I should get a cheap pair of neoprenes for the purpose. They hold up well. Wayne Knight Geneva IL

Response:

1) Where can I find Orvis Clearwaters for $129? I have only seen them at the listed $165.

There is an ad in this month’s Fly Fisherman.  It seems that Orvis has had an "official" price reduction on the Clearwater Breathable.  All Orvis dealers should now be honoring this price.

Response:

Anyone try the new Redington breatheable waders? I’ve seen them in a catalog only but they sound like a great deal. Four year unconditional warranty and $169. I’d like to see how they compare to the really expensive Simms. Thanks Michael L – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s yet another equipment question: This topic has probably been covered here previously, but I’m looking for a breathable wader for hot spring/fall fishing in the Southwest. Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make a breathable wader in the $160 price range. Does anyone have any feedback they could give me about quality of these two, how well they’ve held up over time, etc? Thanks, Sam

Response:

I’m wondering how well they’d hold up when float tubing. I won’t be doing a whole lot of float tubing, but I wonder whether I should get a cheap pair of neoprenes for the purpose.

They hold up well. Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

Response:

I, too, have been considering entry level breathable waders.  In addition to the Hodgeman, Cabela’s and Orvis Clearwater, I am considering the LL Bean Streamlight Breathable Stockingfoot waders. Several comments/questions I have to Bill Kiene and others: 1) Where can I find Orvis Clearwaters for $129? I have only seen them at the listed $165.

Unicoi Outfitters in Helen, GA  had them at $129 when I was up there yesterday. — Charlie…

Response:

There appears to be two typesof breathable waders; the gortex at $300 plus, and the Orvis type, now carried by many companies, at $129 to $160.  Orvis was first out with these they were mostly a dark green color.  I had a pair that worked fine until I lent them to my wife.  Then they developed  three holes in the seat.  Orvis replaced them free of charge.  LL Bean carries them and they guarantee there goods  beyond most companies. I liked them but they are too cold for float tubing, even with long underwear. JackKowalski

t… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Here’s yet another equipment question: This topic has probably been covered here previously, but I’m looking for a breathable wader for hot spring/fall fishing in the Southwest. Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make a breathable wader in the $160 price range. Does anyone have any feedback they could give me about quality of these two, how well they’ve held up over time, etc? Thanks, Sam

Response:

test t… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s yet another equipment question: This topic has probably been covered here previously, but I’m looking for a breathable wader for hot spring/fall fishing in the Southwest. Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make a breathable wader in the $160 price range. Does anyone have any feedback they could give me about quality of these two, how well they’ve held up over time, etc? Thanks, Sam

Response:

I am excited that breathables will be coming down in price, but our top selling

Jeez Bill, at $349.00 those Simms Guide Models had better guide me to some VERY nice holes! 8^} — To reply, please remove "hormel" from my address.  Diapers and politicians should be changed regularly,  often for the same reason.

Response:

I, too, have been considering entry level breathable waders.  In addition to the Hodgeman, Cabela’s and Orvis Clearwater, I am considering the LL Bean Streamlight Breathable Stockingfoot waders. Several comments/questions I have to Bill Kiene and others: 1) Where can I find Orvis Clearwaters for $129? I have only seen them at the listed $165. 2) I like the Orvis and LL Bean models because they come in both men’s and women’s cuts/sizes.  When I buy, I plan to get two pair; one for myself and one for my wife. 3) I am concerned about the lack of knee protection (for we clumsy) on the Clearwater and Hodgeman waders.  Orvis, of course, has the excellent warranty.  But both the Cabela’s and the Streamlight waders have reinforced knees and LL Bean’s warranty is even better. I am only trying to get more information to make a decision.  Any and all comments would be appreciated. Jonathan Williamson

Response:

I am excited that breathables will be coming down in price, but our top selling Jeez Bill, at $349.00 those Simms Guide Models had better guide me to some VERY nice holes! 8^}

I’m planning to buy a pair of Simms. (Fortunately, I can get them wholesale). I’m wondering how well they’d hold up when float tubing. I won’t be doing a whole lot of float tubing, but I wonder whether I should get a cheap pair of neoprenes for the purpose. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Here’s yet another equipment question: This topic has probably been covered here previously, but I’m looking for a breathable wader for hot spring/fall fishing in the Southwest. Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make a breathable wader in the $160 price range. Does anyone have any feedback they could give me about quality of these two, how well they’ve held up over time, etc? Thanks, Sam

Response:

Here’s yet another equipment question: This topic has probably been covered here previously, but I’m looking for a breathable wader for hot spring/fall fishing in the Southwest. Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make a breathable wader in the $160 price range. Does anyone have any feedback they could give me about quality of these two, how well they’ve held up over time, etc? Thanks, Sam

Hi Sam, I am sure that Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make good waders and stand behind them, but Orvis has the hottest deal on entry level breathables( anything under $200) Their Clearwater stocking foot breathable chest waders come with a neoprene foot and suspenders for $129. They also have a prorated 4 year warranty. I am excited that breathables will be coming down in price, but our top selling Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Question:

I want to get my wife a set of waders for fly fishing, but have been unable to find anything.  Does anyone know of a reputable mail order dealer and/or any suggestions on brands. Thanks for any suggestions. David

Response:

Sorry to be glib on what is supposed to be a serious request, BUT, I just realized that I must have been wearing womens waders all along.  Why else would the zipper be missing from where I need it the most? Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to get my wife a set of waders for fly fishing, but have been unable to find anything.  Does anyone know of a reputable mail order dealer and/or any suggestions on brands. Thanks for any suggestions. David

Response:

I want to get my wife a set of waders for fly fishing, but have been unable to find anything.  Does anyone know of a reputable mail order dealer and/or any suggestions on brands.

Orvis is just one of many manufacturers that makes a women’s wader. If your local shop doesn’t carry them you can always mail order. jackie billings, mt

Response:

I want to get my wife a set of waders for fly fishing, but have been unable to find anything.  Does anyone know of a reputable mail order dealer and/or any suggestions on brands. Thanks for any suggestions. David

Hi David, Orvis sells excellent women’s waders (both rubber and neoprene).  They aren’t cheap but they’re good.  A quick web search should get you a catalogue (that’s how I got mine). –Margot F.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to get my wife a set of waders for fly fishing, but have been unable to find anything.  Does anyone know of a reputable mail order dealer and/or any suggestions on brands. Thanks for any suggestions. David Hi David, Orvis sells excellent women’s waders (both rubber and neoprene).  They aren’t cheap but they’re good.  A quick web search should get you a catalogue (that’s how I got mine). –Margot F.

LL Bean also offers woman’s waders and custom made waders too.  They are on the web as well. — The views expressed are my own and does not represent those of my employer.

Response:

Orvis is just one of many manufacturers that makes a women’s wader. If your local shop doesn’t carry them you can always mail order.

Someone also once posted the address of a California company called Damselfly which specializes in women’s flyfishing needs. Their number is 1-800-966-4166. I haven’t dealt with them personally, being a double victim of both chronic poverty and the Canadian exchange rate, but I’m willing to bet they’re worth checking out before going to Orvis… — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank, ichthyophile. Toronto, Ontario, Canada. see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html

Response:

I want to get my wife a set of waders for fly fishing, but have been unable to find anything.  Does anyone know of a reputable mail order dealer and/or any suggestions on brands. Thanks for any suggestions. David

Bare, Simms and Orvis have womans neoprene wader. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

 I want to get my wife a set of waders for fly fishing, but have been  unable to find anything.  Does anyone know of a reputable mail order  dealer and/or any suggestions on brands.

If your wife is what is considered average in size, Damsel Fly should have waders to fit her.  Otherwise, any of the companies that custom make waders is your best bet.  Mine came from StreamLine in Bainbridge, Washington but most good flyshops can order for you and will have the necessary form to get all the measurements right.  I’m not sure if all the manufacturers are making a women’s cut in waders yet but StreamLine does.                         – Jewelee

Response:

Hi, My wife wears Simms Womens neoprene waders and loves them.  She has gotten quite a bit of use out of them.  They are a bit expensive (I don’t know how much wading your wife will be doing), and the pair she has is purple (which just happens to be her favorite color). Actually, the waders appear dark blue in the water. Otherwise, the ORvis womens waders have received good reviews also from a few women I have guided. -paul Paul Williamson Emigrant, MT 59027

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks. He also saved my life. There I was, packing up after a delightful spring afternoon on the second meadow section of Slough Creek, completely unaware of what was about to transpire. I was going through the usual routine – breaking down the rod, brushing off the sombrero, putting my clothes back on – when I heard a deep growl behind me. Turning quickly, I found myself face-to-face with the ugliest grizzly in Yellowstone. It didn’t look good. Suddenly, from out of nowhere came George Gehrke, big as life and twice as conservative, carrying a fistfull of Gehrke’s Gink bottles and a rolled up copy of the "American Spectator". He looked like Brian Keith on steriods, all red flannel, denim and muscle. A tattoo on his forehead read "Speak English or die" The bear turned to face George and I thought he was toast when, in a flash, George crammed two bottles of Gink into his mouth and put the rolled up magazine to his lips. In the manner of an African tribesman with a blowgun, he shot the plastic bottles into the grizzly’s nostrils, where the caps popped open, releasing their patented paste into the beast’s brain. The grizzly spun in circles several times, salivating, bellowing, then it stopped. The bear sat there, eyes glazed, smiling. The bear was hallucinating. "COMMIE SONOFABITCH!" roared George as he launched himself at the beast, driving his hand into its frothing mouth and down its throat. I heard a loud crunch as the man’s fist clenched around the beast’s spinal cord. Then, with a sickening "rrriiipp" he tore the animal’s entire skeleton out of its body through its very mouth. Laughing like Zeus, George Gehrke held the bloody bones in the air, where the last rays of sunlight danced through their ghastly membranes like the tinsel on Satan’s Christmas tree. It was kind of intense. Steve Oh God was that funny…YEE HAA !!!! *WHAT* a monday morning in the newsgroup !!! TimW

Yea, What a HOOT!! RickM

Response:

PETA has instructed all their members to write in BAMBI on all of their votes. Insider info, (PE)T(A)-Bone?

Ya know, Jim?  You’re obsession with Tim is starting to become kind of embarrassing to watch.  You might consider taking a break from the newsgroup and coming back when you’ve found your sense of humor. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

SOUNDS LIKE "REN & STIMPY" TO ME. OR PERHAPS "ITCHY AND SCRATCHY". YOU GUY’S OUGHTA LIGHTEN UP A LITTLE. I DON’T KNOW, MAYBE YOU COULD GO FISHING OR SOMETHING.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks. While he may be a most seasoned fishing expert, he is clearly a usenet novice. If one comes into an unfamiliar usenet group flaming and screaming, one should expect it to come back around tenfold.  If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.  (Gads!  I’m starting to sound like Ross Perot.  I need therapy.)

Speaking of therapy, How is the Ellis Hot Canned Chili withdrawel going ? George is a usenet tyro…which is even more perfect ! I abhor a stale newsgroup ! TimW

Response:

snip And if my vision is clouded by my deep attachment to our smoke in the eye heritage, please don’t try to make it more clear.  I like it this way.

My own smoke in the eye heritage has more to do with people I’ve known than someone who refers to himself as a Professional Sportsman. Ross

Response:

I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks.

He also saved my life. There I was, packing up after a delightful spring afternoon on the second meadow section of Slough Creek, completely unaware of what was about to transpire. I was going through the usual routine – breaking down the rod, brushing off the sombrero, putting my clothes back on – when I heard a deep growl behind me. Turning quickly, I found myself face-to-face with the ugliest grizzly in Yellowstone. It didn’t look good. Suddenly, from out of nowhere came George Gehrke, big as life and twice as conservative, carrying a fistfull of Gehrke’s Gink bottles and a rolled up copy of the "American Spectator". He looked like Brian Keith on steriods, all red flannel, denim and muscle. A tattoo on his forehead read "Speak English or die" The bear turned to face George and I thought he was toast when, in a flash, George crammed two bottles of Gink into his mouth and put the rolled up magazine to his lips. In the manner of an African tribesman with a blowgun, he shot the plastic bottles into the grizzly’s nostrils, where the caps popped open, releasing their patented paste into the beast’s brain. The grizzly spun in circles several times, salivating, bellowing, then it stopped. The bear sat there, eyes glazed, smiling. The bear was hallucinating. "COMMIE SONOFABITCH!" roared George as he launched himself at the beast, driving his hand into its frothing mouth and down its throat. I heard a loud crunch as the man’s fist clenched around the beast’s spinal cord. Then, with a sickening "rrriiipp" he tore the animal’s entire skeleton out of its body through its very mouth. Laughing like Zeus, George Gehrke held the bloody bones in the air, where the last rays of sunlight danced through their ghastly membranes like the tinsel on Satan’s Christmas tree. It was kind of intense. Steve

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks. He also saved my life. There I was, packing up after a delightful spring afternoon on the second meadow section of Slough Creek, completely unaware of what was about to transpire. I was going through the usual routine – breaking down the rod, brushing off the sombrero, putting my clothes back on – when I heard a deep growl behind me. Turning quickly, I found myself face-to-face with the ugliest grizzly in Yellowstone. It didn’t look good. Suddenly, from out of nowhere came George Gehrke, big as life and twice as conservative, carrying a fistfull of Gehrke’s Gink bottles and a rolled up copy of the "American Spectator". He looked like Brian Keith on steriods, all red flannel, denim and muscle. A tattoo on his forehead read "Speak English or die" The bear turned to face George and I thought he was toast when, in a flash, George crammed two bottles of Gink into his mouth and put the rolled up magazine to his lips. In the manner of an African tribesman with a blowgun, he shot the plastic bottles into the grizzly’s nostrils, where the caps popped open, releasing their patented paste into the beast’s brain. The grizzly spun in circles several times, salivating, bellowing, then it stopped. The bear sat there, eyes glazed, smiling. The bear was hallucinating. "COMMIE SONOFABITCH!" roared George as he launched himself at the beast, driving his hand into its frothing mouth and down its throat. I heard a loud crunch as the man’s fist clenched around the beast’s spinal cord. Then, with a sickening "rrriiipp" he tore the animal’s entire skeleton out of its body through its very mouth. Laughing like Zeus, George Gehrke held the bloody bones in the air, where the last rays of sunlight danced through their ghastly membranes like the tinsel on Satan’s Christmas tree. It was kind of intense. Steve

  I’d put the pipe down for a while Steve,     Harry   ( it does have some merit though)

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: : It was kind of intense. :   I’d put the pipe down for a while Steve,   I’m guessing Spinolio often fishes alone.  Perhaps too often. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks. He also saved my life. There I was, packing up after a delightful spring afternoon on the second meadow section of Slough Creek, completely unaware of what was about to transpire. I was going through the usual routine – breaking down the rod, brushing off the sombrero, putting my clothes back on – when I heard a deep growl behind me. Turning quickly, I found myself face-to-face with the ugliest grizzly in Yellowstone. It didn’t look good. Suddenly, from out of nowhere came George Gehrke, big as life and twice as conservative, carrying a fistfull of Gehrke’s Gink bottles and a rolled up copy of the "American Spectator". He looked like Brian Keith on steriods, all red flannel, denim and muscle. A tattoo on his forehead read "Speak English or die" The bear turned to face George and I thought he was toast when, in a flash, George crammed two bottles of Gink into his mouth and put the rolled up magazine to his lips. In the manner of an African tribesman with a blowgun, he shot the plastic bottles into the grizzly’s nostrils, where the caps popped open, releasing their patented paste into the beast’s brain. The grizzly spun in circles several times, salivating, bellowing, then it stopped. The bear sat there, eyes glazed, smiling. The bear was hallucinating. "COMMIE SONOFABITCH!" roared George as he launched himself at the beast, driving his hand into its frothing mouth and down its throat. I heard a loud crunch as the man’s fist clenched around the beast’s spinal cord. Then, with a sickening "rrriiipp" he tore the animal’s entire skeleton out of its body through its very mouth. Laughing like Zeus, George Gehrke held the bloody bones in the air, where the last rays of sunlight danced through their ghastly membranes like the tinsel on Satan’s Christmas tree. It was kind of intense. Steve

Oh God was that funny…YEE HAA !!!! *WHAT* a monday morning in the newsgroup !!! TimW

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I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks. He is one of the legends friends and we have him on the net.  This is a rare event for us that we should savour. And if my vision is clouded by my deep attachment to our smoke in the eye heritage, please don’t try to make it more clear.  I like it this way. TimW

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Aw T, you might lose your Crumudgeon membership card for this post, but I’d hate to see the reaction we saw to his forcefully stated position, drive George or anyone else off this/these groups. jg

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks. He is one of the legends friends and we have him on the net.  This is a rare event for us that we should savour. And if my vision is clouded by my deep attachment to our smoke in the eye heritage, please don’t try to make it more clear.  I like it this way. TimW

I like this ng. People come here, share their opinions about fly fishing, and other subjects. I’ve met some who come here. They, every one, every bit as respectable as the icons we hold up as the Patriarchs of fly fishing. Yes, I may have been loading my shorts when such people were exploring western trout waters that have long-since been relegated to stories. But I’d sooner find myself on a river with a Rick Fletcher, a Randy Shrock, or a Charlie Quinton than any of the people we may place in that category. The people who have contributed to most to this heritage, the individuals who do so now, have never gone noticed by an equipment manufacturer, a fishing magazine, or notoriety of any form, largely because if it came their way, they’d be too focussed on a floating dry fly, or taking a son or grandson beyond the hedonistic tendencies of human nature that impede the discovery of fly fishing. Mitch

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I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks.

While he may be a most seasoned fishing expert, he is clearly a usenet novice. If one comes into an unfamiliar usenet group flaming and screaming, one should expect it to come back around tenfold.  If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.  (Gads!  I’m starting to sound like Ross Perot.  I need therapy.) — -Wayne Trzyna

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I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport. [TEXT DELETED] And if my vision is clouded by my deep attachment to our smoke in the eye heritage, please don’t try to make it more clear.  I like it this way.

I don’t think the smoke is coming from your "smoke in the eye heritage". YOUR ONE OF THOSE CRACK SMOKIN ROSS PEROT, IDIOTS THAT SITS IN FRONT OF THE T.V. AND MASTERBAITS TO RUSH …AREN’T YOU ??? SO WHO IS PETA MAKING YOU VOTE FOR? …..Hee Heee Heee..;)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport. [TEXT DELETED] And if my vision is clouded by my deep attachment to our smoke in the eye heritage, please don’t try to make it more clear.  I like it this way. I don’t think the smoke is coming from your "smoke in the eye heritage". YOUR ONE OF THOSE CRACK SMOKIN ROSS PEROT, IDIOTS THAT SITS IN FRONT OF THE T.V. AND MASTERBAITS TO RUSH …AREN’T YOU ??? SO WHO IS PETA MAKING YOU VOTE FOR? …..Hee Heee Heee..;)

Let me add ‘em up…1, 2, 3 (well, not to Rush…)… Yeah, I guess I am…. PETA has instructed all their members to write in BAMBI on all of their votes. TimW Thumper vor VP !

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Question:

The talc miner in charge of the operation was reported to have said: "Now this REALLY chaps my ass" As the river was sucked into the abyss. TimW

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Did the Big Hole river have any major damage a few months back when the talc miners blew into an underground cavern somewhere, thus diverting the stream.  What is the update on that? -Paul

Paul, The fellow who made the original post, Sandy Pittendrigh, played a practical joke, sort of a "War of the Worlds" type deal.  Nothing happened to the Big Hole at all.  I fished it several times this season, and it was in fine shape! — Dave Kumlien Montana Troutfitters 1716 W. Main St. Bozeman, MT 59715 http://www.gomontana.com/Business/Trout/trout.html

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What about the demolition derby?!!! Sure would hate to lose that All-American event as well. Jon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wiped out the town of Dillon as well….no Labor Day rodeo this year Did the Big Hole river have any major damage a few months back when the talc miners blew into an underground cavern somewhere, thus diverting the stream.  What is the update on that? -Paul

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Wiped out the town of Dillon as well….no Labor Day rodeo this year – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did the Big Hole river have any major damage a few months back when the talc miners blew into an underground cavern somewhere, thus diverting the stream.  What is the update on that? -Paul

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Did the Big Hole river have any major damage a few months back when the talc miners blew into an underground cavern somewhere, thus diverting the stream.  What is the update on that?

The leak was plugged by the thousands of refugee beavers fleeing Sandy’s Montana estate. — -Wayne Trzyna

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For a few minutes though it sure created a stir.  So much so for me I jumped in the truck and drop two hours to be sure if it was there or not. So, was it still there, and if it is, how much talc is in the water? Have the browns become "whitefish?" Charlie Quinton Laramie, Wyoming

I just fished the Big Hole last weekend and found the sub-terranian section to be especially productive.  The best pattern was a blind cave shrimp imitation. Hell of a boat ride though. Don Kelly Butte  MT

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Did the Big Hole river have any major damage a few months back when the talc miners blew into an underground cavern somewhere, thus diverting the stream.  What is the update on that? -Paul

Hi Paul, That story was a joke/hoax.  For a few minutes though it sure created a stir.  So much so for me I jumped in the truck and drop two hours to be sure if it was there or not. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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For a few minutes though it sure created a stir.  So much so for me I jumped in the truck and drop two hours to be sure if it was there or not.

So, was it still there, and if it is, how much talc is in the water? Have the browns become "whitefish?" Charlie Quinton Laramie, Wyoming

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Did the Big Hole river have any major damage a few months back when the talc miners blew into an underground cavern somewhere, thus diverting the stream.  What is the update on that? -Paul

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: Did the Big Hole river have any major damage a few months back when the : talc miners blew into an underground cavern somewhere, thus diverting the : stream.  What is the update on that? A few weeks ago, it reappeared above ground, forming a new branch of DePuy’s Spring Creek. But I don’t know how the piranhas got in there. — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

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Question:

I have heard that this creek can offer great fishing and is blue ribbon, but I have also heard that it is not worth looking at. CAn anyone shed some light on the creek for me, because I am planing to go up there this Sunday. Also if it is possible, maybe someone can direct me to a good place to start from in the morning, and give me an idea of what sort of flies I should bring along. I would really appreciate anything anyone has to say about this creek. TimFLYFISH

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I have heard that this creek can offer great fishing and is blue ribbon, but I have also heard that it is not worth looking at. CAn anyone shed some light on the creek for me, because I am planing to go up there this Sunday. Also if it is possible, maybe someone can direct me to a good place to start from in the morning, and give me an idea of what sort of flies I should bring along. I would really appreciate anything anyone has to say about this creek. TimFLYFISH

The lower portion, near and in Lake Solano is a put and take fishery, heavily stocked.  Good fishing, good luck avoiding the worm drowners.  The upper portion, near Montecello dam is a blue ribbon wild trout fishery.  I have seen 30"+ browns rise for a bat!  (how to tie that one   Very difficult fishing, and often rather dangerous.  Swift current and bouldery bottom.   Your next step could be 5′ straight down off an underwater ledge.  Fish are heavily fished and very wary.  Prepare to get skunked.  Some very good FFers I know can only claim 1 fish in 10 years of fishing there, but it was a 26" brown.  Above the Montecello dam is a warm water lake, and bellow the lake solano dam gets dried to nothing in dry summers, so fish are scarce. Good luck, and whatever you do, don’t embarass yourself by trying to claim there were no fish there. Lenny Bloksberg . .

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Tim, I too wish you luck, I went up to the Monticello Dam area a couple of weeks after the March Monsters blew through here and had a hard time recognizing the area. There were HUGE landslides. Basically, there was no access to a badly overfished area. I tried clambering over new stream channels, the access bridge was GONE and so were the trails to the the base of the dam. I haven’t been back, I’ll look again after the Power Baiters are gone. John E.

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]I have heard that this creek can offer great fishing and is blue ribbon, ]but I have also heard that it is not worth looking at. CAn anyone shed ]some light on the creek for me, because I am planing to go up there this ]Sunday. Also if it is possible, maybe someone can direct me to a good ]place to start from in the morning, and give me an idea of what sort of ]flies I should bring along. I would really appreciate anything anyone has ]to say about this creek. ]TimFLYFISH Tim, I believe the better flyfishing at Putah is from Nov-March, because that’s when the flows are lower, and they restrict fishing in the upper section to artificials, single barbless hook, C&R.  This time of year, you’re battling bait dunkers and the higher flows. Effective patterns I’ve heard of (in the winter) include PT nymphs or blue wing olive nymphs, size 18-22. A good friend (and reliable source) told me that he went in February or March, and that they had had some kind of disastorous mudslide in the upper section, just above the Highway 128 bridge.  He said you couldn’t even see some of the boulders in the river, because they were covered with a mud sludge.  They had construction crews with heavy equipment out there, trying to smooth the land where the slide had occurred. I hope it’s recovered somewhat since then.  Please keep us posted on how you did and the river conditions.  Thanks, Bill Uyeki

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I have heard that this creek can offer great fishing and is blue ribbon, but I have also heard that it is not worth looking at. CAn anyone shed some light on the creek for me, because I am planing to go up there this Sunday. Also if it is possible, maybe someone can direct me to a good place to start from in the morning, and give me an idea of what sort of flies I should bring along. I would really appreciate anything anyone has to say about this creek. TimFLYFISH

I ‘ve fished Putah for almost 20 years and its really gone downhill in the last 10 or so.  Erratic water flows, streamside erosion, overfishing have taken their toll.  Seams to me that there could be the potential for a blue ribbon fishery but it clearly ain’t one now. Garrick

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From what I have heard, I am glad that I didn’t end up going. A late night stoped the morning trip. I probably won’t on going there again if what you have said is true. Thank you for the info.

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Well 6/7/95, Mammoth fishing is still slow.  Crowley is near dead. 17-20" browns and even smaller rainbows on olive buggers with flash. I say forget Mammoth for now.  Air Temps in the 50S.  Still needs to warm up and water needs to clear.

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Try fishing at Parking Lot #3; good pocket water, as well as large surface water.

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Try fishing at Parking Lot #3; good pocket water, as well as large surface water.

I have seen the name Putah Creek in more than one location. Where is this one? Thanks, Michael Paine

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I have seen the name Putah Creek in more than one location. Where is this one? Thanks, Michael Paine

It’s between the Bay Area and Sacramento.  Below Lake Berryessa.                  /                                                           John Woodling                 /                                                           Sacramento, CA                /                   "The lure of fishing is that it is the pursuit of that which is elusive, yet attainable……an endless series of occasions for hope"

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Question:

I am new to the midwest and a local suggested I try the Pere Marquette. We live in Chicago, so I thought we’d make a weekend of the trip. I would appreciate the what, when, where, and how’s of fly fishing there for Salmon. Suggested camp grounds would be appreciated, as well as best route from Chicago and approximate travel time. Thanxs in advance, Bryan

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I am new to the midwest and a local suggested I try the Pere Marquette. We live in Chicago, so I thought we’d make a weekend of the trip. I would appreciate the what, when, where, and how’s of fly fishing there for Salmon. Suggested camp grounds would be appreciated, as well as best route from Chicago and approximate travel time. Thanxs in advance, Bryan

                                   * I am a native to MI (at least I am now) and I visit the PM rather frequently. If you email me at home I can give you phone numbers and the like for my favorite lodge.  I really like the Johnsons Pere Marquette lodge.  I have stayed there for only $35-/night midweek during the salmon season.  I don’t know what it is this year.  I now have a cabin of my own up there only 7 min. from the flies only water of the PM.  I suggest that you go mid-week if you can.  If you go, try to find the most inaccessible spot you can.  The river is so full of salmon you can practically walk across on their backs, in any hole in the river.  The trick is finding a place with few enough fellow fishermen that the fish haven’t already been spooked into oblivion.  A drift boat with a guide is an excellent solution if you have the money.  I have not done that yet, though.  The Johnsons lodge is also an Orvis shop (sorry) but they really are nice anyway.  They give away a really good map of the flies only section of the river.  It helps a lot.  Good luck.                                     * Lenny Bloksberg . . .

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Question:

To the other extreme: some types of salmon and steelhead fishing intentionally uses the waking action of a dry fly to attract strikes.  I’ll let someone with more experience speak on that one.  Of course, nymphing is a whole different ball game!!                               Scott

Sure is a fun way to catch late summer/fall steelhead. Sometimes they sip the fly down and barely make a ripple, other times they slash wildly at it, sometimes multiple times before they get a hold of it. You can vary the speed of the fly by up or downstream mends, thereby increasing or decreasing the extent of the commotion caused by your deliberately dragging fly. Often a change of pace will bring up a sullen fish.  Not the easiest way to actually hook fish…I rise or see many more fish than I hook, but it’s fun just to see them come up for the fly.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Steve

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[stuff about making own leaders deleted] Darryl, just a small suggestion re staightening your leader out. Find something solid to tie the tippet end to , I use my foot or a handy small tree. Grasp the butt end of the leader and  straighten the it out, putting about 3-5lb of pressure on it constantly for about 2 min.

A simpler way is to get a small piece of rubber, maybe 2"X3"X1/8", and fold it over the leader and then pull the leader through it.  This does 2 things.  First, the tension straightens the leader, and second, the rubber deglosses the mono.  You don’t need a tree, and if you forget to do it before you get out on the water, you can carry the thing in your vest and fix the leader. I have a special piece of leather with a rubber facing that I got from somewhere sometime in the distant past.  It still works, but the key thing is the rubber.  I’ve also used the rubber grippers that you use to open vacuum sealed jars. Barry Smith

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [stuff about making own leaders deleted] Darryl, just a small suggestion re staightening your leader out. Find something solid to tie the tippet end to , I use my foot or a handy small tree. Grasp the butt end of the leader and  straighten the it out, putting about 3-5lb of pressure on it constantly for about 2 min. A simpler way is to get a small piece of rubber, maybe 2"X3"X1/8", and fold it over the leader and then pull the leader through it.  This does 2 things.  First, the tension straightens the leader, and second, the rubber deglosses the mono.  You don’t need a tree, and if you forget to do it before you get out on the water, you can carry the thing in your vest and fix the leader. I have a special piece of leather with a rubber facing that I got from somewhere sometime in the distant past.  It still works, but the key thing is the rubber.  I’ve also used the rubber grippers that you use to open vacuum sealed jars.

I use an old leather key fob.  I took out the stitching and glued two pieces of rubber on the inside.  The best part is the key fob already has a metal ring on it for attaching to a Simms retractor. — John Fereira, posting from historic Pleasanton, Ca.               Home of "The Nooner"

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Too much previous text to deal with…but another comment on straightening fly leaders.  This topic can be debated and has been in some fly books. There may be instances where having a straight leader isn’t the best solution. In the local spring creeks, with many different current flows, you actually want your leader to land on the water in a series of loose "coils".  These coils allow the line more "give" in adjusting for the differences in current.  With the added slack in the line (assuming you are fishing dry flies here), your fly has a longer "drag-free" drift.  One of the biggest problems in fishing finicky trout in spring creeks is avoiding your dry dragging across the surface.  You can find discussions of this in books by Joe Humphries and Charles Meck. To the other extreme: some types of salmon and steelhead fishing intentionally uses the waking action of a dry fly to attract strikes.  I’ll let someone with more experience speak on that one.  Of course, nymphing is a whole different ball game!!                               Scott

Response:

A simpler way is to get a small piece of rubber, maybe 2"X3"X1/8", and fold it over the leader and then pull the leader through it.  This does 2 things.  First, the tension straightens the leader, and second, the rubber deglosses the mono.  You don’t need a tree, and if you forget to do it before you get out on the water, you can carry the thing in your vest and fix the leader.

It works – but be careful.  Pulling the leader through the rubber will also heat it considerably depending on the number of times and the speed of the pullings.  The heating will reduce the strength of the leader, especially the shock and knot strength.  Test it for yourself and see. This is not much of a problem in the heavier butt section but can be critical in the tippet.

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I guess I’m just cheap. An old bike innertube has supplied me with a lifetime supply of leader straighteners. 2×2 on a zinger. — Alan McConkie Opinions are mine alone, etc.

Response:

A simpler way is to get a small piece of rubber, maybe 2"X3"X1/8", and fold it over the leader and then pull the leader through it.  This does 2 things.  First, the tension straightens the leader, and second, the rubber deglosses the mono.  You don’t need a tree, and if you forget to do it before you get out on the water, you can carry the thing in your vest and fix the leader.

Along the line of the piece of rubber for use as a leader straightener, here’s what has worked many years for me:   Find an old bicycle innertube, and cut off a chunk about 3" long so that you have a 3" tube.  Then poke a hole straight through both sides of one end with one of those metal shower curtain clips.  Then hang the clip with piece of rubber from the hole in a zipper pull on an inside pocket. It’s out of the way, handy when needed, practically impossible to wear out, and…it works.  As mentioned by a previous posting, it takes a little practice to get the right touch so you can pull a ten foot leader through it without getting it too hot or breaking it.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [stuff about making own leaders deleted] Darryl, just a small suggestion re staightening your leader out. Find something solid to tie the tippet end to , I use my foot or a handy small tree. Grasp the butt end of the leader and  straighten the it out, putting about 3-5lb of pressure on it constantly for about 2 min. A simpler way is to get a small piece of rubber, maybe 2"X3"X1/8", and fold it over the leader and then pull the leader through it.  This does 2 things.  First, the tension straightens the leader, and second, the rubber deglosses the mono.  You don’t need a tree, and if you forget to do it before you get out on the water, you can carry the thing in your vest and fix the leader. I have a special piece of leather with a rubber facing that I got from somewhere sometime in the distant past.  It still works, but the key thing is the rubber.  I’ve also used the rubber grippers that you use to open vacuum sealed jars. Barry Smith

Those little rubber patches in bicycle tire repair kits work great!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Too much previous text to deal with…but another comment on straightening fly leaders.  This topic can be debated and has been in some fly books. There may be instances where having a straight leader isn’t the best solution. In the local spring creeks, with many different current flows, you actually want your leader to land on the water in a series of loose "coils".  These coils allow the line more "give" in adjusting for the differences in current.  With the added slack in the line (assuming you are fishing dry flies here), your fly has a longer "drag-free" drift.  One of the biggest problems in fishing finicky trout in spring creeks is avoiding your dry dragging across the surface.  You can find discussions of this in books by Joe Humphries and Charles Meck. To the other extreme: some types of salmon and steelhead fishing intentionally uses the waking action of a dry fly to attract strikes.  I’ll let someone with more experience speak on that one.  Of course, nymphing is a whole different ball game!!                               Scott

Its been my experience that a coiled leader tends to absorb the casting energy instead of transferring it down to, and turning over, the fly. The leader then tends to land in a heap. If the leader is straight, but you use a thinner tippet just a tad too long, the tippet then lands in nice "S" curves that compensate for the cross currents. ..Darryl Hayashida

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Re: Leaders I have found that the Orvis Braided leaders are a boon to fishermankind. For a couple of bucks you can get a several foot braided leader that you attach with a loop to loop connection.  Then you may attach a few feet of the appropriate tippet.  I have found that I can use a length of regular mono, in a pinch.  Further you can CHEAPLY use some of the wonderful tippet materials available. Casts like majic…. Mark

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In a recent message, you wrote;                           Re: Leaders I have found that the Orvis Braided leaders are a boon to fishermankind. For a couple of bucks you can get a several foot braided leader that you attach with a loop to loop connection.  Then you may attach a few feet of the appropriate tippet.  I have found that I can use a length of regular mono, in a pinch.  Further you can CHEAPLY use some of the wonderful tippet materials available. Casts like majic….

    I agree. My cousin works for Orvis, Greg Comar, and he sent me some to try three years ago. I never looked back! It has improved my casting 10 6th  percent!     Great stuff!     MARK | Pembroke, NH 03275    | n1men.ampr.org_44.52.7.8    | | 603-485-5852          | Have a Nice Day!            | — * UniQWK v3.3 * The Solution for Multilingual Messages — | Pembroke, NH 03275    | n1men.ampr.org_44.52.7.8    | | (603) 485-5852        | Have a Nice Day!            |

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lhdsy1!uunet!gossip.pyramid.com!decwrl!ames!pacbell.com!att-out!oucsace!sun !mal – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing Organization: Productivity OnLine   513-333-3111 Lines: 12 Re: Leaders I have found that the Orvis Braided leaders are a boon to fishermankind. For a couple of bucks you can get a several foot braided leader that you attach with a loop to loop connection.  Then you may attach a few feet of the appropriate tippet.  I have found that I can use a length of regular mono, in a pinch.  Further you can CHEAPLY use some of the wonderful tippet materials available. Casts like majic…. Mark

Just a *friendly* question, I’m curious, not trying to flame anybody. Have you tried making your own knotted leaders? I’ve used the Orvis tapered mono leaders and the braided leaders. Then I tried constructing my own using the Orvis leader kit. I find that I can turn over the leader and fly much easier using the knotted leaders. The only problem I’ve run across is the leader material likes to stay coiled, but once the coils are stretched out (takes a while though) it turns over nicely. I construct the leader using the loop to loop attachment to the fly line and tippet. Makes tippet changes a matter of a couple of seconds. ….Darryl Hayashida

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Path: lhdsy1!uunet!gossip.pyramid.com!decwrl!ames!pacbell.com!att-out!oucsace!su n!mal Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing Organization: Productivity OnLine   513-333-3111 Lines: 12 Re: Leaders I have found that the Orvis Braided leaders are a boon to fishermankind. For a couple of bucks you can get a several foot braided leader that you attach with a loop to loop connection.  Then you may attach a few feet of the appropriate tippet.  I have found that I can use a length of regular mono, in a pinch.  Further you can CHEAPLY use some of the wonderful tippet materials available. Casts like majic…. Mark Just a *friendly* question, I’m curious, not trying to flame anybody. Have you tried making your own knotted leaders? I’ve used the Orvis tapered mono leaders and the braided leaders. Then I tried constructing my own using the Orvis leader kit. I find that I can turn over the leader and fly much easier using the knotted leaders. The only problem I’ve run across is the leader material likes to stay coiled, but once the coils are stretched out (takes a while though) it turns over nicely. I construct the leader using the loop to loop attachment to the fly line and tippet. Makes tippet changes a matter of a couple of seconds. …..Darryl Hayashi

Darryl, just a small suggestion re staightening your leader out. Find something solid to tie the tippet end to , I use my foot or a handy small tree. Grasp the butt end of the leader and  straighten the it out, putting about 3-5lb of pressure on it constantly for about 2 min. This creates heat in the leader material and gets rid of the set that it has taken on the reel. At this point I tie on a fresh tippet (the last 2 ft or so) and go fishing. Tight lines

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