Question:

It’s Christmas time again….. Therefore, here is my Christmas greeting card for you, as you will find at the following address since posting binaries to non-binary newsgroups isn’t allowed: http://home.online.no/~stigbye/christmas_cards/rec_outdoors_fishing_f… Cheers, Stig Arne Bye

And a Merry Christmas, Happy Solstice and all that to you and all the ROFFians, too. —   rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing. Often taunted by trout. Very slow on replying to email. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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It’s Christmas time again….. Therefore, here is my Christmas greeting card for you, as you will find at the following address since posting binaries to non-binary newsgroups isn’t allowed: http://home.online.no/~stigbye/christmas_cards/rec_outdoors_fishing_f… Cheers, Stig Arne Bye

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Question:

<snip  i just can’t imagine trying to fish with a fly rod for trout under the conditions you have described.

It’s not often like I described. George and I have shared the entire stretch with one or two others for most of the season. Because of the warm weather immediately following a cold snap, and the threat of bad weather all the following week, everyone’s fishing time was compacted into one day. Also, there are other good "wild" rivers around the area, but the drought-like conditions have kept them way down this year, hence the concentration of fishers at the Swift. The Swift has a controlled flow and sustains the good trout conditions pretty much year ’round. thank god for the blue ridge, and the great smokies, and the old north state.     why don’t ya come down and *see* us some time…

I’d like that and, if the invitation remains open and the stars align properly, I plan on getting to the ONS next Autumn. I’d like to hear about the anti-clave from the perspective of a non-participant of the death march so I can better gage the kind of fishing I’d see. Should you find your way to Western Massachusetts some day, there is typically some very good fishing to show you and some wonderful scenery. Why, Stan might even show you his secret spot. . . — TL, Tim

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Ahhhh, "therein lies the rub." While we are trying to be stealthy and fool the fish into taking one of our real-life imitations, the spinner folks are just trying to piss ‘em off. At the next ‘clave, try this experiment – see which takes longer: pissing someone off or fooling them. Based on years of scientific study and black eyes, I’ve found that pissing *people* off can be a much quicker endeavor, and this probably holds true for fish as well.  :)

Tim, it is funny your story. I was in your neck of the woods on Sat afternoon with a spinning rod, a six of budlite, two packs of white owls, a buddy and his son … nah, just kidding. I was up on the Hoosic, though, and the same thing happened: I was in the pool first and a guy with his son came by. He told his son to fish in front of me on the opposite back. He went downstream and start to cast within a couple of yards of me. Judging by his glares, the SOB looked like he cared more about the pool than I did, so I moved on to the next pool. Some things just aren’t worth the hypertension (or the hospital fees). — Gary M (remove ‘x’s from email address)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The good news is that the kid caught a nice rainbow right after you left. How does this stuff happen?  We stealthy fly fishermen can creep upto a pool on our bellies, deftly cast our 7X tippets from a crouch, and still put fish down for an entire day with a brief glint off a chrome tip top.   Yet a loud bunch of spin fishermen can loudly stroll right into a pool, toss down their cigarette butts, then turn around and catch a nice rainbow.   There’s something wrong with that.  :-)

Ahhhh, "therein lies the rub." While we are trying to be stealthy and fool the fish into taking one of our real-life imitations, the spinner folks are just trying to piss ‘em off. At the next ‘clave, try this experiment – see which takes longer: pissing someone off or fooling them. Based on years of scientific study and black eyes, I’ve found that pissing *people* off can be a much quicker endeavor, and this probably holds true for fish as well.  :) — TL, Tim

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <… As I’m tying on new sections, two beer-drinking, cigarette smoking, spinner-throwing gentlemen with a 5 or 6 year old boy appear with the all subtlety of a runaway train between George and me and start casting into MY pool 10 feet in front of me. Nice report Tim.  Don’t be to hard on the spin fishermen – I used to fish the Swift and Deerfield with spinners when I was younger and poorer.  From their point of view, you and George were hogging the river. However, you did hit on the reason why I just can’t bring myself to fish the Swift on a weekend…     i just can’t imagine trying to fish with a fly rod for trout under the

conditions you have described.     thank god for the blue ridge, and the great smokies, and the old north state.     why don’t ya come down and *see* us some time… yfitons wayno

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<… As I’m tying on new sections, two beer-drinking, cigarette smoking, spinner-throwing gentlemen with a 5 or 6 year old boy appear with the all subtlety of a runaway train between George and me and start casting into MY pool 10 feet in front of me. Nice report Tim.  Don’t be to hard on the spin fishermen – I used to fish the Swift and Deerfield with spinners when I was younger and poorer.  From their point of view, you and George were hogging the river.

You got me all wrong, Stan. I’m innocent – innocent, I tells ya. <g  I haven’t done any spinner fishing in the past few years, but before that I did quite a bit myself. I have nothing against spinner fishing, and would have been just as ticked off had a fly fisher started casting right in front of me. When I was spinner fishing, I always gave other fishers a wide berth when they had staked a claim. I think it’s a courtesy for any type of fishing. However, you did hit on the reason why I just can’t bring myself to fish the Swift on a weekend…

Yeah – the "elbow-to-elbow" conditions aren’t the ultimate. If we get some more decent weather, I’m going to go to some of my downriver spots. I’ve found these far less populated, but the scenery is pretty poor in places. A lot of trash-dumping goes on by the time you get to Bondsville. — TL, Tim

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In the meantime, picture George acting like he’s oblivious to it all as he continues to backcast in their general direction. These guys can’t take a hint, though, and probably wouldn’t even if he landed one of them. Those guys toughed it out. I figured they would take the hint, but if I got too close they probably would have just moved closer to you….they seemed to be that sort. Good that they take the kid fishing, but not setting a good example for him.

The good news is that the kid caught a nice rainbow right after you left. He was very excited and I heard him ask the older guys as they were packing to leave when they could bring him again. The better news is that they *did* release the fish, because I had serious doubts that they would. Hopefully, the fish survived the handling. — TL, Tim

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The good news is that the kid caught a nice rainbow right after you left.

How does this stuff happen?  We stealthy fly fishermen can creep upto a pool on our bellies, deftly cast our 7X tippets from a crouch, and still put fish down for an entire day with a brief glint off a chrome tip top.   Yet a loud bunch of spin fishermen can loudly stroll right into a pool, toss down their cigarette butts, then turn around and catch a nice rainbow.   There’s something wrong with that.  :-) Joe F.

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However, you did hit on the reason why I just can’t bring myself to fish the Swift on a weekend…

The traffic there has been real sporadic all year. There’s been a few weekends when you can’t even find a place to park, yet there’s been as many when I’ve found myself fishing alone for long periods of time. It’s often been more crowded on weekday evenings than the weekends, though Tim and I have fished several weekday evenings with little or no company. To paraphrase Yogi, "Nobody fishes it because it’s so crowded." George Adams "All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of youth that doth not grow stale with age."                                                           —- J.W Muller

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Yeah, well, I figured if it’s going to be stupid, short is the best way to go. It just didn’t turn out that way. As someone else mentioned on another TR, we had a relatively warm weekend. As I was raking leaves and cleaning the yard for the winter onslaught, I thought, "What in the hell am I doing wasting perfectly good fishing weather?" When SWMBO decided it was time for her to start Christmas shopping, I wished her well but convinced her that I MUST stay and get the yard work done. As she pulled out of the driveway, I saw my opening and threw the blower and rake in the shed as I ran to grab my waders. So now it’s about 13:00 on a Saturday afternoon. I figured there were two choices: The nearby C & R area was bound to be primed for combat fishing since every other fly fisher in the area was probably throwing their rakes into the shed at about the same time. Or I could go to a less fished area of the river, but there are really only a few decent areas for throwing in a fly and have a possibility of catching much. I decide on the former and speed off. As I pull into the C & R area, this little red Subaru is blocking my forward progress. DAMN – George got the fishing idea just a moment before it came to me. As we pull up to the parking area, the number of vehicles indicate finding a good spot might be a problem. George decides he’ll head downstream to the usual and best spots to see how heavily occupied by the enemy they might be. With my eternal optimism I went upstream to see if any fish had migrated that far. I found a couple of runs that looked semi-promising and started wetting the line. I caught four tremendous lunkers, with the largest being the size of my index finger. One of them received full backcast treatment from me. With that kind of success behind me, I trudge off in search of George. I decided that he must have found a spot and be doing okay since he wasn’t searching for me. I find him in a prime location throwing some kind of black gnat about the size of a pin head. He tells me he has picked up a few decent ‘bows already and I notice there is another prime spot open just downstream from him. I make a run of drifts with a #24 Griffiths Gnat, which was the smallest thing I had. The fish rise at it, but no takes. I then catch the branch directly above me and am doomed to lose the fly and all except the butt section of leader. As I’m tying on new sections, two beer-drinking, cigarette smoking, spinner-throwing gentlemen with a 5 or 6 year old boy appear with the all subtlety of a runaway train between George and me and start casting into MY pool 10 feet in front of me. Can you imagine throwing spinners in the presence of a 5 year old? <G As they get the lure stuck on a log, I hear them discuss having "the guy with the waders" get it for them. Obviously, I am too involved with tying my leader and cannot hear them, so one of them sloshes out into the pool to reclaim it. The fish to which I’d been casting scatter. In the meantime, picture George acting like he’s oblivious to it all as he continues to backcast in their general direction. These guys can’t take a hint, though, and probably wouldn’t even if he landed one of them. Finally, I decide I’ve had enough and reel in my line, raise my rod, give them a stern stare, and . . . move back up river. I decided that I wouldn’t succeed in teaching them anything and would probably just sour the 5 year old from fishing again. Some of the other fishermen come out of the spot just above George, so I enter there. I watch George land a nice ‘bow and I continue to throw stuff at ‘em to no avail. Right before dark, I bring a small brookie (maybe all of 6 inches) to hand and call it a day. Since this was a day when I hadn’t planned to fish at all, it was a fun one all the more and possibly the last shirt-sleeve one of the season. I thank the weather gods for it and head for home. — TL, Tim

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In the meantime, picture George acting like he’s oblivious to it all as he continues to backcast in their general direction. These guys can’t take a hint, though, and probably wouldn’t even if he landed one of them.

Those guys toughed it out. I figured they would take the hint, but if I got too close they probably would have just moved closer to you….they seemed to be that sort. Good that they take the kid fishing, but not setting a good example for him. I watch George land a nice ‘bow and I continue to throw stuff at ‘em to no avail.

Wound up with 3 browns and 3 ‘bows. (not unethical to count if you can do it on your fingers) Likely will be my last time out unless we get another warm spell, even though I tied up some more of the #26 emergers.  I left my last one in a decent fish and decided to call it quits. Come on Spring!! George Adams "All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of youth that doth not grow stale with age."                                                           —- J.W Muller

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<… As I’m tying on new sections, two beer-drinking, cigarette smoking, spinner-throwing gentlemen with a 5 or 6 year old boy appear with the all subtlety of a runaway train between George and me and start casting into MY pool 10 feet in front of me.

Nice report Tim.  Don’t be to hard on the spin fishermen – I used to fish the Swift and Deerfield with spinners when I was younger and poorer.  From their point of view, you and George were hogging the river. However, you did hit on the reason why I just can’t bring myself to fish the Swift on a weekend…

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Question:

Frank Reid writes: 2nd week of June for me too.

Are you going to drive up, Frank? Dave

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Don’t know.  Was thinking of taking the fast train to Boston and a bus to the stop near your house.  That would save me 11 hours on the road. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply. .

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2nd week of June for me too. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

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Peter Charles writes: I’ll give her a ring tomorrow.  2nd week of June sounds right for us – will Jo be there then?

Well, we planned on her going the first week.  We have Angler’s cabin (by the water).  So, if you could make it then, so much the better. Some days that woman knows how to twist the knife.  

Hey, she’s   taken some lessons from the Pirate, dontchaknow? Dave

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[sounds like a bit of tough sledding but even so – it’s Lakewood so who cares, eh? For all you folks planning on going to Lakewood in June:  I have made reservations for the first, second, and fourth weeks.  There was some talk about having a non-clave gathering – Peter, wayno, Jeff, et al.  If youse guys are serious about it, better call Maureen at 207-243-2959.   You’ll need to send her a deposit.  Also, Frank Reid – pick a time.  How about 3rd week?  Or, whenever. Gotta go fix dinner.  What a drag……. Dave

I’ll give her a ring tomorrow.  2nd week of June sounds right for us – will Jo be there then? Suzie labouriously looked through her datebook to see if she was ‘otherwise occupied"  then with a whoop, she announced that she was free those weeks because *she* was retired!!  Some days that woman knows how to twist the knife.   Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I’m glad your friend liked my rod, Dave.  I am fixing to build one for myself that is a copy of yours, I liked how that taper cast so much. I took a terrific vacation with a couple friends in Alberta and British Columbia a couple weeks ago.  The fishing and the scenery was how you would imagine it being in Heaven.  I fished bamboo almost exclusively the whole while I was out there, using an 8 1/2 foot 6 weight I made for a friend who kindly let me use the rod on that trip.  One of our guides eyed the rod as we loaded up the drift boat in the morning.  He made a vary tactful but mistrustful remark about it, saying,"You know, there are bull trout in here envisioned cane splinters flying should I hang a hog.  I assured him that the rod – against my pleading – had been used to land chinook salmon by its owner, so I din’t forsee any problems on this trip.  I was happy with the 6 weight’s performance.  We had a good dose of that western wind I have read so much about.  I did fine by waiting in between gusts and firing a cast out there.  I landed a 2 foot long bull trout on that drift.  It was considered small by the locals, but the thrill of getting my first bull wasn’t small. It looked and acted like a giant brook trout while I reeled it in. It will be a long wait until we all get to go back there next year, I’m telling you! Pete

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Thanks for the report, Dave.  Sounds like a nice time.  How many folks are out there on the river this time of year? Pete Collin

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Peter Collin writes: How many folks are out there on the river this time of year?

Lots.  There were 11 Lakewood guests fishing (and about 12 kids/wives who weren’t), plus some folks boated in on Sat and Sun. BTW, I let my friend try the rod.  He fell for it.  His wife wants to buy him a boo rod for Christmas/birthday, but he’s always said no.  But after trying your’s, he is sold on it. He was surprised when he found out that it was not as slow as he thought bamboo would be.  <g Dave

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Got in this afternoon after four days at Lakewood.  River was running at 800 cfs, ideal for wading and fishing.   First thing I did was to find out the river temps.  Down-stream it was 74 at 2nd Current, and a very warm 75 at Lower Dam.  I checked out Upper and found it to be 71 at 6 a.m., and it worked up to 74 around noon.  So, it was fishing early and up-river.  My friend Bob McDonald and I hit the dam and immediately got into some small (10-12 inch) salmon.  We were both fishing the same pattern – LaFontaine Caddis Emerger.  Bob was fishing it dry and I fished it as a nymph.  They weren’t fussy – they liked it either way.  We both caught some nice 14+ inch salmon, feisty as hell.  We played them short because of the temps. I called Dave Bottom Saturday night and told him about the noon/afternoon water temps down-river, and we agreed it best if he not make the trip and the walk-in.  We’ll meet up in October and fish the Kennebec at East Outlet. Both Sunday and Monday were the same – warm, humid, and the fish hitting consistantly only on the LaFontain pattern.  I hate to tie that pattern, and since I was running short, I tried other patterns.  No deal!  They wanted only the emerger pattern.  Bob left after lunch on Sunday and knowing I was running short of that fly graciously gave me five from his box – he’s a better tier than I.   Monday night/early Tuesday morning a much needed rain came through. I love it when it rains at Lakewood; the cabin is warm (if you’ve made a fire!), and you can hear every drop on the roof.  Wonderful sleeping.   When I awoke at 5:30, it was cool with just a sprinkle coming down.  After a quick cup of coffee from my thermos and letting Henry out to take a leak, I hit the dam.  Absolutely beautiful in the mist of early morning.  I took up station at Zimmerman’s Run, so named because roff’s very own Steve Zimmerman fished it for three straight days without taking a leak, dump, or eating/sleeping.  <G  First cast produced a small salmon, but it got better with the next fish, a respectable 14 incher. I returned after a great breakfast, and fished this run and two or three other feeding lines accessable from the rocks.  I continued to catch some nice landlocks and a 15 inch brookie.  When the sun came out at 10 a.m., fishing ceased!  I took one more salmon before returning to camp for lunch.  I don’t know what put them down. The sun?  It was bright from Sat – Mon.   After a terrific lunch and a much needed nap, I returned to the dam around 4 p.m. and fished until 6.  Fishing was great, but the catching was scarce.   I spoke to some camp guests who had been fishing down-stream both Mon and Tues, and the only thing they caught were *bass* and yellow perch at both the 2nd Current and Lower Dam.  They killed them per posted instructions from Maine F & G.   The lake level is down 4 feet from full.  Input from Upper Dam is 220 cfs (their minimum flow), while Middle Dam is 800 cfs.  It doesn’t take a math major to see that the lake will be empty come September if they don’t get rain or change the flows. For all you folks planning on going to Lakewood in June:  I have made reservations for the first, second, and fourth weeks.  There was some talk about having a non-clave gathering – Peter, wayno, Jeff, et al.  If youse guys are serious about it, better call Maureen at 207-243-2959.   You’ll need to send her a deposit.  Also, Frank Reid – pick a time.  How about 3rd week?  Or, whenever. Gotta go fix dinner.  What a drag……. Dave .  

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Question:

Before I go off to bed – which I should have done a while ago – I wanted to just think of a nice thing to write about, just in case someone wanted to read about a nice thing – or later write about their own nice thing. Saturday my son and I went to a movie.  There is one of those stores that has everything for a dollar near there, so we went there while we waited for the time for the movie.  I found a necklace rack – and we make lots of jewelry, so lots of times we get chains from those dollar stores to hold pendants that we create from stones or coral or shells encrusted w/wired strands of beads and semi-precious stones, etc.  Okay, so on this rack were also necklaces w/little openwork stars set in colored rhinestones, and also enameled dragonflies and enameled butterflies.  We got them all.  We like to take jewelries apart and put them back together in new ways with our own new components and it comes out to be a beautiful new things.  We thinks that some of you would like to see how they are.  If we knew what kinds of things you liked, we could even make some things for yous.  Yes, we could and even would. That is what we get enjoyment from – we gives our things aways.  Is it pretty to think of the stars w/rhinestones?  They are small, the stars, and the rhinestones are tiny.  Oh, and guess what?  We were at a party on Sunday and there were lots of babies there, and there was one tiny newborn girl who was only three weeks old and her name is Isabella and she was so beautiful and we liked looking at her and she just looked as if her life is going fine.  That’s a good thing, isn’t it?  And my son swam in the pool and made friends – even though he won’t see them again, because the party was far away – but we are so happy my son can do that, because we didn’t be able to when we was of his age. Thanks for your listenings.  Please to write nice things, too, if you feel like it – Beauty.

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great post, Beauty. we, B and me (B being the fellow i care for), have had a busy week. he requested to go to several events this week, more than he ever requested before. one was a small festival by the river in a park that is low lying to the rest of the town since we have gentle mountians surrounding us. he requested a soft serve ice cream cone, and sat in his wheelchair beneath a tree as a local country band played music in the distance in an amphitheatre. we watched people walk by, and some who knew us stopped to chat a bit. the air this evening was warm and slightly humid, and the breeze from the river passing through the trees cooled us. as the sun went down, the lights from small children rides and food vendor’s wagons shown brightly, even with the ball field lights glowing high up above everything and everyone, high up on top of their poles. being a small community in this valley, i recognized many people walking by; people i knew over the past ten years. the younger folks looked so young and behaved in such a free spirited manor, some wearing clothes similar to the style i had worn in the seventies, but somehow more exaggerated. i noticed more jewlery, and piercings. the older women spoke of book reading clubs at the library, and cleaning crates of strawberries for the festival’s one day shortcake event. a few comments about ch*rch, and light humor were shared. B and me felt safe, and took in the varied sounds, and smells, and watched the world go by, as some would say. sometimes all is forgiven and forgotten, and life is breathed in and out of our lungs with welcome and ease. cliff  

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Oh, e, I have always loved hearing about your cats.  There is a wonderful book I picked up on remainder called C*t K*ngdom, about a kind of experimental cat run some peoples created in Japan – I think it was Japan (I might be inventing that part).  The cats had a huge barn and also a huge fenced barnlot, and the peoples just watched – watched how their social structure worked, how they interacted, how their hierarchies worked, etc., over a few generations.  It is full of lots of pictures.  That’s kind of what your story made me think of – except that your situation is much more free-ranging and – purposeful.  And personal.  Again, much respect for what you do – and it did give me a lot of pleasure to read about all the cat friends, esp. Ty who growled his way into affection.  Oh, yeah, and Stella – that brave, wild queen. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – thanks, Beauty. i liked hearing about the necklaces. and about Isabella and about your son having fun.  :-)   thanks. the main nice thing in my life now is that my "wild" cats have gone outside, along with most of the older "domestic" cats. they’re all between about 14 mos. old. and 2 1/4 years old. the semi-feral cats and the domestic cats have become good friends. they all seem to get along well and enjoy each other’s company. an almost completely untamed cat, Stella, is their ringleader. (Stella is another story. we got her too late to tame well but she’s such a sweet cat who loved to be petted in her cage and "mothered" most of the other cats, that we had high hopes that she’d tame up;  become our new "favorite, wonderful" cat; and sort of take the place of our old favorite, wonderful cat who died recently. but Stella never liked to be held and when she escaped from her cage late this winter, she was gone. except she comes in regularly to eat. anyway, the "house" cats have calmed down. the kittens are almost grown and so tear through the house much less frequently. they’re much calmer and quieter, although they still like to play. all the kittens are lap cats now except Becky who is afraid of the other cats and so mostly stays by the window. Puka, from the litter that came at the wrong time (i had too many other cats, some of them sick, and was out of it from the meds i was taking so i never paid enough attention to them when they were young and most tamable), is very friendly and follows me around like a puppy. but isn’t as yappy.  she still doesn’t like anyone else, though so adoption is still a long way off.  :-P~  her brother, Silver, was *very* friendly until i tried to get rid of his ear mites. now he only lets me pet him when he’s eating. but he had become so affectionate and he is so sweet that i still think he may eventually tame up better than Puka. we keep hoping that Sid (for Obsidian) will join the outside cats. he’s not at all tame and hides most of the time but i think he’ll be ok outside and will come in for food regularly. Ty, the formerly abused cat who’d lived outside or in our garage, is becoming a house cat. he still spends about half his time outside but he comes in often to be petted. he’s quite demanding.    :-)  when we first got him (as an adult) – right after he’d been neutered – i was afraid to touch him bc he growled so fiercely when i fed him or otherwise went anywhere near his cage. he kept it up the whole time i was near. after about a month or so, i decided i should let him go to become one of my outside cats. but i thought i should at least give him a chance at becoming domestic so i donned two pairs of leather gloves – he’s large and if he bit me i think it could have easily gone to the bone – and started to pet him. he backed up in the corner of his cage and faced me squarely. he was growling fiercely and loudly and looked poised to pounce. but i was determined to at least try to pet him. somehow i scruffed him and started petting his back. to my amazement, he started purring. when i stopped, he cried as if he wanted me to pet him some more. so i tried but as i reached for him, he growled and looked like he might attack me. but i tried again. and he purred again. this went on for a week or so. every time i’d get near his cage or feed him, he’d growl loudly and look like he was going to attack. but as soon as i began to pet him, he turned into a pussycat. and as soon as i’d stop, he’d cry for more petting. but when i’d try to pet him he’d growl and get in attack position as if he were thinking "if i can’t kill you, i’ll d*e trying." but as soon as i started petting him, he’d purr. after about a week of that (with both my kid and i taking turns petting him bc he was so demanding), he started crying soon before feeding time. and he’d cry for an hour or so after we’d left bc he wanted more petting. (we were usually good for around 30 min but rarely more. sometimes less.) but he’d still growl a LOT when we first began to pet him. it was funny. we’ve now had him around 10 mos. this week, he discovered the joys of laying on the sofa.  at first he kept jumping up and running away every time someone or something moved on the sofa (which is frequently when you have lots of cats and a big, pushy dog , but he’s much better about that now. and last night, when i got a toy – one of those flexible plastic sticks that has feathers attached at the end – to play with Puka and Silver (bc poor Puka, who hadn’t been played with in a couple of weeks, was so desperate that she’d been chasing the broom all around as i swept , Ty ran most of the 10 ft. from the sofa, where he’d been laying, to the open door. but i called his name and he stopped and turned around. he didn’t come back but he watched from maybe 6 ft away from the toy. he seemed fascinated but scared as he watched Puka and Silver play. i sat on the sofa, which was next to where i’d been playing with the cats, and called him. he came right away bc he loves to be petted, even if he’s still very skittish around ppl.  i petted him and put the feather toy next to him. he sniffed it a while then licked it. then he started batting it so i moved it a bit. he batted it more. then i moved it more and Ty started playing with the feathers. so did Puka.  :-) anyway, Ty is still skittish but otherwise you’d never know that he’d ever been anything but a very affectionate, sweet, and demanding cat. and my dog is calming down and not chasing the cats as much.  :-)  so a few of them actually like him now.  :-) he likes that. e Before I go off to bed – which I should have done a while ago – I wanted to just think of a nice thing to write about, just in case someone wanted to read about a nice thing – or later write about their own nice thing. Saturday my son and I went to a movie.  There is one of those stores that has everything for a dollar near there, so we went there while we waited for the time for the movie.  I found a necklace rack – and we make lots of jewelry, so lots of times we get chains from those dollar stores to hold pendants that we create from stones or coral or shells encrusted w/wired strands of beads and semi-precious stones, etc.  Okay, so on this rack were also necklaces w/little openwork stars set in colored rhinestones, and also enameled dragonflies and enameled butterflies.  We got them all.  We like to take jewelries apart and put them back together in new ways with our own new components and it comes out to be a beautiful new things.  We thinks that some of you would like to see how they are.  If we knew what kinds of things you liked, we could even make some things for yous.  Yes, we could and even would. That is what we get enjoyment from – we gives our things aways.  Is it pretty to think of the stars w/rhinestones?  They are small, the stars, and the rhinestones are tiny.  Oh, and guess what?  We were at a party on Sunday and there were lots of babies there, and there was one tiny newborn girl who was only three weeks old and her name is Isabella and she was so beautiful and we liked looking at her and she just looked as if her life is going fine.  That’s a good thing, isn’t it?  And my son swam in the pool and made friends – even though he won’t see them again, because the party was far away – but we are so happy my son can do that, because we didn’t be able to when we was of his age. Thanks for your listenings.  Please to write nice things, too, if you feel like it – Beauty.

Response:

This is a lovely post, too, cliff.  Thank you for sharing the beautiful evening.  Your words really brought it alive to us. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – great post, Beauty. we, B and me (B being the fellow i care for), have had a busy week. he requested to go to several events this week, more than he ever requested before. one was a small festival by the river in a park that is low lying to the rest of the town since we have gentle mountians surrounding us. he requested a soft serve ice cream cone, and sat in his wheelchair beneath a tree as a local country band played music in the distance in an amphitheatre. we watched people walk by, and some who knew us stopped to chat a bit. the air this evening was warm and slightly humid, and the breeze from the river passing through the trees cooled us. as the sun went down, the lights from small children rides and food vendor’s wagons shown brightly, even with the ball field lights glowing high up above everything and everyone, high up on top of their poles. being a small community in this valley, i recognized many people walking by; people i knew over the past ten years. the younger folks looked so young and behaved in such a free spirited manor, some wearing clothes similar to the style i had worn in the seventies, but somehow more exaggerated. i noticed more jewlery, and piercings. the older women spoke of book reading clubs at the library, and cleaning crates of strawberries for the festival’s one day shortcake event. a few comments about ch*rch, and light humor were shared. B and me felt safe, and took in the varied sounds, and smells, and watched the world go by, as some would say. sometimes all is forgiven and forgotten, and life is breathed in and out of our lungs with welcome and ease. cliff

Response:

Hello, Beauty and J/c,    I think your jewellery making sounds wonderful, Beauty, and I would love to see what you do with the stars and things. Sounds lovely! And J/c, you have done some interesting things and seen some, too. My nice thing is that today my pottery class went to a potter’s studio to see his work and where he does it. He has a restaurant there, too, and we all had lunch together. We laughed, and shared food, especially the desserts, and we wandered with the potter in his fabulous gardens. The spring flowers were blooming, peonies bigger than dinner plates, and lupins and iris. The fish were swimming lazily in the pond, and the water lilies were in full blossom. We saw his wheels and the kiln and everything. We watched him throwing, and he showed us some special tools he has devised for certain purposes. It was an afternoon when DID didn’t. Not much. Driving there and back along the country roads where the green grasses and the gardens are lush was wonderful to see and smell. A nice thing today. jane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – great post, Beauty. we, B and me (B being the fellow i care for), have had a busy week. he requested to go to several events this week, more than he ever requested before. one was a small festival by the river in a park that is low lying to the rest of the town since we have gentle mountians surrounding us. he requested a soft serve ice cream cone, and sat in his wheelchair beneath a tree as a local country band played music in the distance in an amphitheatre. we watched people walk by, and some who knew us stopped to chat a bit. the air this evening was warm and slightly humid, and the breeze from the river passing through the trees cooled us. as the sun went down, the lights from small children rides and food vendor’s wagons shown brightly, even with the ball field lights glowing high up above everything and everyone, high up on top of their poles. being a small community in this valley, i recognized many people walking by; people i knew over the past ten years. the younger folks looked so young and behaved in such a free spirited manor, some wearing clothes similar to the style i had worn in the seventies, but somehow more exaggerated. i noticed more jewlery, and piercings. the older women spoke of book reading clubs at the library, and cleaning crates of strawberries for the festival’s one day shortcake event. a few comments about ch*rch, and light humor were shared. B and me felt safe, and took in the varied sounds, and smells, and watched the world go by, as some would say. sometimes all is forgiven and forgotten, and life is breathed in and out of our lungs with welcome and ease. cliff

Response:

Oh, it sounds so beautiful, jane.  Gardens and food and pots and fish.  What more could anyone want? Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Beauty and J/c,    I think your jewellery making sounds wonderful, Beauty, and I would love to see what you do with the stars and things. Sounds lovely! And J/c, you have done some interesting things and seen some, too. My nice thing is that today my pottery class went to a potter’s studio to see his work and where he does it. He has a restaurant there, too, and we all had lunch together. We laughed, and shared food, especially the desserts, and we wandered with the potter in his fabulous gardens. The spring flowers were blooming, peonies bigger than dinner plates, and lupins and iris. The fish were swimming lazily in the pond, and the water lilies were in full blossom. We saw his wheels and the kiln and everything. We watched him throwing, and he showed us some special tools he has devised for certain purposes. It was an afternoon when DID didn’t. Not much. Driving there and back along the country roads where the green grasses and the gardens are lush was wonderful to see and smell. A nice thing today. jane great post, Beauty. we, B and me (B being the fellow i care for), have had a busy week. he requested to go to several events this week, more than he ever requested before. one was a small festival by the river in a park that is low lying to the rest of the town since we have gentle mountians surrounding us. he requested a soft serve ice cream cone, and sat in his wheelchair beneath a tree as a local country band played music in the distance in an amphitheatre. we watched people walk by, and some who knew us stopped to chat a bit. the air this evening was warm and slightly humid, and the breeze from the river passing through the trees cooled us. as the sun went down, the lights from small children rides and food vendor’s wagons shown brightly, even with the ball field lights glowing high up above everything and everyone, high up on top of their poles. being a small community in this valley, i recognized many people walking by; people i knew over the past ten years. the younger folks looked so young and behaved in such a free spirited manor, some wearing clothes similar to the style i had worn in the seventies, but somehow more exaggerated. i noticed more jewlery, and piercings. the older women spoke of book reading clubs at the library, and cleaning crates of strawberries for the festival’s one day shortcake event. a few comments about ch*rch, and light humor were shared. B and me felt safe, and took in the varied sounds, and smells, and watched the world go by, as some would say. sometimes all is forgiven and forgotten, and life is breathed in and out of our lungs with welcome and ease. cliff

Response:

That is amazing about the other ducks, and thank you for helping the duck and we holding the duck in thoughts for healing best.  And here is a strange and funny thing:  we was watching M*ts and Or*oles game on television and there was a pair of mallards which came during about the 2nd inning and stayed through the 8th inning!!!  They was just wandering around out on the field together all that time together, and we think that is so funny and amazing and funny and then they just flew off and the camera kept showing us them and they showed us them flying off together, too.  Isn’t that funny and odd??? Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well i was at the park and i saw my daughter’s dog running along with someone, it was her friend who is dog-sitting.  she stoppedand we were talking a minute when some people were noticing an injured duck at the side of the pond.  no one wanted to help it so we took it to the emergency vets and they will see if it can be saved.  i haven’t called yet to find out but we felt really good about trying, duck had bad leg, couldn’t swim and would have suffered out in the heat tomorrow if the ants didn’t get it first.  what was really touching was how the other ducks were gathered around him and wouldn’t leave him.  wish the duck luck.   best, samantha

Response:

well i was at the park and i saw my daughter’s dog running along with someone, it was her friend who is dog-sitting.  she stoppedand we were talking a minute when some people were noticing an injured duck at the side of the pond.  no one wanted to help it so we took it to the emergency vets and they will see if it can be saved.  i haven’t called yet to find out but we felt really good about trying, duck had bad leg, couldn’t swim and would have suffered out in the heat tomorrow if the ants didn’t get it first.  what was really touching was how the other ducks were gathered around him and wouldn’t leave him.  wish the duck luck.   best, samantha  

Response:

hey – we had ducks too! i did forget all about them until now you say you had ducks. we lived in suburbs too, but there was a little bit of woods and a lake behind our house, and the ducks did live there. they would come quacking up through our back yard, and we would give them bread crumbs or something, and then they would go quacking home. what i remember as good about childhood was the lake behind our house. we would go there, and there was a tree with a little clearing that we could sit under and be lazy, and then there was cattails growing by the lake, and we could walk all around the lake on a little path, and sometimes go down to the water and watch little fishes. and sometimes go fishing too. and i think it’s not allowed now but we would whack the cattails open and it would be like little feathers floating and falling through the air. and then also we would pick the blackberries that did grow there. yum yum and sometimes ouch. i remember now i really did love the lake. tv

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We had ducks, my sister and I, when we were little.  They grew up and got white and we gave them to a farm.  They were cute ducklings – we had suburbs so we couldn’t have big ducks, it would have been stupid.  Thanks for writing. Beauty. hi beauty,  those ducks at the game sound really cute!  i had pet ducks as a child, have always loved to watch them.  all i know about my duck so far is the vet sent him to animal rescue, which i think means he could be saved.  still trying to find out more.   best, samantha

Response:

We had ducks, my sister and I, when we were little.  They grew up and got white and we gave them to a farm.  They were cute ducklings – we had suburbs so we couldn’t have big ducks, it would have been stupid.  Thanks for writing. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi beauty,  those ducks at the game sound really cute!  i had pet ducks as a child, have always loved to watch them.  all i know about my duck so far is the vet sent him to animal rescue, which i think means he could be saved.  still trying to find out more.   best, samantha

Response:

Thank you for the nice things.  We will tell you of one magical morning.  We woke up about 17 years ago in April to a freak blizzard of about four feet, and out of nowhere, perched all over our half a dozen bird feeders (we lived on a hill surrounded by deep woods) were scores of evening grosbeaks – do you know what they look like?  They are huge brilliant yellow birds w/parrot beaks and black markings.  We couldn’t believe it – we had never seen them before in our lives, and then there they were by the dozen.  The other thing we saw that was wonderful once was a group of newly-fledged scarlet tanagers:  when they are newly-fledged, they are not completely red yet – they are part red and part green – also like parrots.  Amazing!  I adore birds – they are the most incredible, incredible, beautiful creatures.  There are no words for how wonderful, delicate, unearthly they are.  But you know that.  Oh – and the unearthly, subtle, inexpressible colors of the mourning doves . . . Best – Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well i was at the park and i saw my daughter’s dog running along with someone, it was her friend who is dog-sitting. she stoppedand we were talking a minute when some people were noticing an injured duck at the side of the pond. no one wanted to help it so we took it to the emergency vets and they will see if it can be saved. i haven’t called yet to find out but we felt really good about trying, duck had bad leg, couldn’t swim and would have suffered out in the heat tomorrow if the ants didn’t get it first. what was really touching was how the other ducks were gathered around him and wouldn’t leave him. wish the duck luck. best, samantha That was so kind of you, samantha.  The duck was very lucky that y’all came along.  Hope it’s doing better. My nice thing is that the other day I saw a Northern Oriole, and a wild parrot,  both within 5 minutes .  They were both so incredibly beautiful. mdove — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well i was at the park and i saw my daughter’s dog running along with someone, it was her friend who is dog-sitting. she stoppedand we were talking a minute when some people were noticing an injured duck at the side of the pond. no one wanted to help it so we took it to the emergency vets and they will see if it can be saved. i haven’t called yet to find out but we felt really good about trying, duck had bad leg, couldn’t swim and would have suffered out in the heat tomorrow if the ants didn’t get it first. what was really touching was how the other ducks were gathered around him and wouldn’t leave him. wish the duck luck. best, samantha

That was so kind of you, samantha.  The duck was very lucky that y’all came along.  Hope it’s doing better. My nice thing is that the other day I saw a Northern Oriole, and a wild parrot,  both within 5 minutes .  They were both so incredibly beautiful. mdove — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

hi beauty,  those ducks at the game sound really cute!  i had pet ducks as a child, have always loved to watch them.  all i know about my duck so far is the vet sent him to animal rescue, which i think means he could be saved.  still trying to find out more.   best, samantha

Response:

Now we say funny – we had our ducks from when they used to have to be allowed to sell them in dime stores, back when the did still have dime stores, which they do not anymore, now they have dollar stores.  But one night we all did go to the dime store for something we don’t remember what because we were only maybe four years old and we did see ducklings and chicks under warm lights and going peepeepeep like they do and we were so happy to see them and all of a sudden the fthr said we would get two of them, for my sstr and me and the mthr argued no it was crazy but he did make it happen, and we could hardly believe it!!!!!  They did let us pick out our ones and we did, and they did get a shoebox with holes in the top for the ducklings to get air for us to take them home and then we couldn’t stand it for when we got in the car we just had to peek and of course out they did hop and all around the car and peep peep peep and under the seats and things but we did finally get them to get back to us and we got them back into the box and to the house and they did live there, inside and out, until they did get big and white. Beautys. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey – we had ducks too! i did forget all about them until now you say you had ducks. we lived in suburbs too, but there was a little bit of woods and a lake behind our house, and the ducks did live there. they would come quacking up through our back yard, and we would give them bread crumbs or something, and then they would go quacking home. what i remember as good about childhood was the lake behind our house. we would go there, and there was a tree with a little clearing that we could sit under and be lazy, and then there was cattails growing by the lake, and we could walk all around the lake on a little path, and sometimes go down to the water and watch little fishes. and sometimes go fishing too. and i think it’s not allowed now but we would whack the cattails open and it would be like little feathers floating and falling through the air. and then also we would pick the blackberries that did grow there. yum yum and sometimes ouch. i remember now i really did love the lake. tv We had ducks, my sister and I, when we were little.  They grew up and got white and we gave them to a farm.  They were cute ducklings – we had suburbs so we couldn’t have big ducks, it would have been stupid.  Thanks for writing. Beauty. hi beauty,  those ducks at the game sound really cute!  i had pet ducks as a child, have always loved to watch them.  all i know about my duck so far is the vet sent him to animal rescue, which i think means he could be saved.  still trying to find out more.   best, samantha

Response:

(trying to focus some, and hurting some too) writitng seems to be my salvaion, eventhough i don’t do it so well. good things, yeah, they happen. like last evening, watching the sunset from a higher point in the valley, before it dipped down low where fields, spotted with round bales of hey and cattle, little homes with white wooden siding and porches, barns and silos, rail and wire fences, and trees reaching the first mountain ridge, exposing the next ridge, and then the next, maybe four rows of mountains leading to the final horizon all in lighter shades of blue. warm air breezes carrying rich sweet smells of fresh cut alphalfa (sp) hey intoxicated my senses. i didn’t want to leave. thanks. oh, and Beauty. i sing everything, proudly, and badly! )) cliff    

Response:

cliff, I have read the place where you wrote how much you want to speak/write – how you yearn to reach for language.  Oh, you do have it, my friend.  Your prose does sing – proudly, proudly – and w/strength.  And the humility and pride, hand in hand, augment the strength. Peace – Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (trying to focus some, and hurting some too) writitng seems to be my salvaion, eventhough i don’t do it so well. good things, yeah, they happen. like last evening, watching the sunset from a higher point in the valley, before it dipped down low where fields, spotted with round bales of hey and cattle, little homes with white wooden siding and porches, barns and silos, rail and wire fences, and trees reaching the first mountain ridge, exposing the next ridge, and then the next, maybe four rows of mountains leading to the final horizon all in lighter shades of blue. warm air breezes carrying rich sweet smells of fresh cut alphalfa (sp) hey intoxicated my senses. i didn’t want to leave. thanks. oh, and Beauty. i sing everything, proudly, and badly! )) cliff

Response:

Wow, what wonderful sightings, Beauty.  Magical indeed!   I love birds, too, as you might have guessed.  My most exciting sighting this year was a pileated woodpecker.  We get lots of red-bellied, Downy and Hairy woodpeckers, but this was a real treat.  He was magnificent (and noisy, even tho’ he was pecking very slowly and deliberately). mdove Thank you for the nice things. We will tell you of one magical morning. We woke up about 17 years ago in April to a freak blizzard of about four feet, and out of nowhere, perched all over our half a dozen bird feeders (we lived on a hill surrounded by deep woods) were scores of evening grosbeaks – do you know what they look like?

Oh, yes.  But I’ve only seen one, many years ago. They are huge brilliant yellow birds – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – w/parrot beaks and black markings. We couldn’t believe it – we had never seen them before in our lives, and then there they were by the dozen. The other thing we saw that was wonderful once was a group of newly-fledged scarlet tanagers: when they are newly-fledged, they are not completely red yet – they are part red and part green – also like parrots. Amazing! I adore birds – they are the most incredible, incredible, beautiful creatures. There are no words for how wonderful, delicate, unearthly they are. But you know that. Oh – and the unearthly, subtle, inexpressible colors of the mourning doves . . . Best – Beauty. well i was at the park and i saw my daughter’s dog running along with someone, it was her friend who is dog-sitting. she stoppedand we were talking a minute when some people were noticing an injured duck at the side of the pond. no one wanted to help it so we took it to the emergency vets and they will see if it can be saved. i haven’t called yet to find out but we felt really good about trying, duck had bad leg, couldn’t swim and would have suffered out in the heat tomorrow if the ants didn’t get it first. what was really touching was how the other ducks were gathered around him and wouldn’t leave him. wish the duck luck. best, samantha That was so kind of you, samantha. The duck was very lucky that y’all came along. Hope it’s doing better. My nice thing is that the other day I saw a Northern Oriole, and a wild parrot, both within 5 minutes . They were both so incredibly beautiful. mdove — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail: message

GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

You would love it where we are – pileated heaven.  Someone once counted 26 pileateds at once in a single site.  And we have them living right around us – across the road mostly, in a big old rotten tree.  Also, our favorite thing – once we saw a nest of baby ones – just barely fledged – sticking their silly little baby necks all out of the tree squawking for the mthr – and then the next day – they had flown the nest!!!  We also had a phoebe who nested for years atop the light just outside our door, attached to our house – we passed w/in inches of her nest coming and going all spring and summer.  The last summer she was here she raised two broods – they were *darling*!!!! when they were just to the stage of standing on the edge of the nest ready to fly – looking down at us with this completely unfazed gaze – just too, too baby even to care that we were another species – darling. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow, what wonderful sightings, Beauty.  Magical indeed!   I love birds, too, as you might have guessed.  My most exciting sighting this year was a pileated woodpecker.  We get lots of red-bellied, Downy and Hairy woodpeckers, but this was a real treat.  He was magnificent (and noisy, even tho’ he was pecking very slowly and deliberately). mdove Thank you for the nice things. We will tell you of one magical morning. We woke up about 17 years ago in April to a freak blizzard of about four feet, and out of nowhere, perched all over our half a dozen bird feeders (we lived on a hill surrounded by deep woods) were scores of evening grosbeaks – do you know what they look like? Oh, yes.  But I’ve only seen one, many years ago. They are huge brilliant yellow birds w/parrot beaks and black markings. We couldn’t believe it – we had never seen them before in our lives, and then there they were by the dozen. The other thing we saw that was wonderful once was a group of newly-fledged scarlet tanagers: when they are newly-fledged, they are not completely red yet – they are part red and part green – also like parrots. Amazing! I adore birds – they are the most incredible, incredible, beautiful creatures. There are no words for how wonderful, delicate, unearthly they are. But you know that. Oh – and the unearthly, subtle, inexpressible colors of the mourning doves . . . Best – Beauty. well i was at the park and i saw my daughter’s dog running along with someone, it was her friend who is dog-sitting. she stoppedand we were talking a minute when some people were noticing an injured duck at the side of the pond. no one wanted to help it so we took it to the emergency vets and they will see if it can be saved. i haven’t called yet to find out but we felt really good about trying, duck had bad leg, couldn’t swim and would have suffered out in the heat tomorrow if the ants didn’t get it first. what was really touching was how the other ducks were gathered around him and wouldn’t leave him. wish the duck luck. best, samantha That was so kind of you, samantha. The duck was very lucky that y’all came along. Hope it’s doing better. My nice thing is that the other day I saw a Northern Oriole, and a wild parrot, both within 5 minutes . They were both so incredibly beautiful. mdove — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail: message GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

P.S. – Did you know that pileateds are the only species of woodpecker who begin by pecking slow and get faster as they peck (that is, when they are pecking in rhythm, and not in that single-stroke, deliberate way you mention).  So that’s one way you can tell if there are pileateds around even if you don’t see them – their pecking sounds like a ten-penny nail being driven into a telephone pole by an accelerating hammer. W**dy W**dpecker is a pileated.  His crazy laugh is modeled on the actual sound they make, which really does sound like maniacal laughter.  You can tell the males from the females because the males have crests which are entirely red and the females have crests which are red only along the top of the tuft. You probably know most of that, right?  I’m just being excited, because I like to talk about birds.  One winter I worked to get chickadees to land in my hands and eat.  That spring, they still knew me, and they used to land on my head when I was sitting outside reading.  That was one of my most magical experiences ever – the feel of their little feet – I can’t even begin to describe it – and knowing that they would come to me, let their little feathers and bright eyes live so close to my seeing. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow, what wonderful sightings, Beauty.  Magical indeed!   I love birds, too, as you might have guessed.  My most exciting sighting this year was a pileated woodpecker.  We get lots of red-bellied, Downy and Hairy woodpeckers, but this was a real treat.  He was magnificent (and noisy, even tho’ he was pecking very slowly and deliberately). mdove Thank you for the nice things. We will tell you of one magical morning. We woke up about 17 years ago in April to a freak blizzard of about four feet, and out of nowhere, perched all over our half a dozen bird feeders (we lived on a hill surrounded by deep woods) were scores of evening grosbeaks – do you know what they look like? Oh, yes.  But I’ve only seen one, many years ago. They are huge brilliant yellow birds w/parrot beaks and black markings. We couldn’t believe it – we had never seen them before in our lives, and then there they were by the dozen. The other thing we saw that was wonderful once was a group of newly-fledged scarlet tanagers: when they are newly-fledged, they are not completely red yet – they are part red and part green – also like parrots. Amazing! I adore birds – they are the most incredible, incredible, beautiful creatures. There are no words for how wonderful, delicate, unearthly they are. But you know that. Oh – and the unearthly, subtle, inexpressible colors of the mourning doves . . . Best – Beauty. well i was at the park and i saw my daughter’s dog running along with someone, it was her friend who is dog-sitting. she stoppedand we were talking a minute when some people were noticing an injured duck at the side of the pond. no one wanted to help it so we took it to the emergency vets and they will see if it can be saved. i haven’t called yet to find out but we felt really good about trying, duck had bad leg, couldn’t swim and would have suffered out in the heat tomorrow if the ants didn’t get it first. what was really touching was how the other ducks were gathered around him and wouldn’t leave him. wish the duck luck. best, samantha That was so kind of you, samantha. The duck was very lucky that y’all came along. Hope it’s doing better. My nice thing is that the other day I saw a Northern Oriole, and a wild parrot, both within 5 minutes . They were both so incredibly beautiful. mdove — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail: message GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

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Hey Beauty Really enjoy reading your *bird* posts…..:o)) Thanx Those pileated sure are something aren’t they!! Don’t get to see very many of them up here.. In fact I think they are on the endangered list… Just a couple of years ago my p*rents stopped the government from building an access road to their secluded community because a mating pair had settled in the bush behind their place.. They live 20 miles to the nearest road and they like it that way..;)  Gov. regulations forbade any construction within the area….  :o)) Cool birds to watch… too!    :o)) J/c btw… we see a lot of evening grosbeaks up here too!! beautiful!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You would love it where we are – pileated heaven.  Someone once counted 26 pileateds at once in a single site.  And we have them living right around us – across the road mostly, in a big old rotten tree.  Also, our favorite thing – once we saw a nest of baby ones – just barely fledged – sticking their silly little baby necks all out of the tree squawking for the mthr – and then the next day – they had flown the nest!!!  We also had a phoebe who nested for years atop the light just outside our door, attached to our house – we passed w/in inches of her nest coming and going all spring and summer. The last summer she was here she raised two broods – they were *darling*!!!! when they were just to the stage of standing on the edge of the nest ready to fly – looking down at us with this completely unfazed gaze – just too, too baby even to care that we were another species – darling. Beauty. Wow, what wonderful sightings, Beauty.  Magical indeed!   I love birds, too, as you might have guessed.  My most exciting sighting this year was a pileated woodpecker.  We get lots of red-bellied, Downy and Hairy woodpeckers, but this was a real treat.  He was magnificent (and noisy, even tho’ he was pecking very slowly and deliberately). mdove Thank you for the nice things. We will tell you of one magical morning. We woke up about 17 years ago in April to a freak blizzard of about four feet, and out of nowhere, perched all over our half a dozen bird feeders (we lived on a hill surrounded by deep woods) were scores of evening grosbeaks – do you know what they look like? Oh, yes.  But I’ve only seen one, many years ago. They are huge brilliant yellow birds w/parrot beaks and black markings. We couldn’t believe it – we had never seen them before in our lives, and then there they were by the dozen. The other thing we saw that was wonderful once was a group of newly-fledged scarlet tanagers: when they are newly-fledged, they are not completely red yet – they are part red and part green – also like parrots. Amazing! I adore birds – they are the most incredible, incredible, beautiful creatures. There are no words for how wonderful, delicate, unearthly they are. But you know that. Oh – and the unearthly, subtle, inexpressible colors of the mourning doves . . . Best – Beauty. well i was at the park and i saw my daughter’s dog running along with someone, it was her friend who is dog-sitting. she stoppedand we were talking a minute when some people were noticing an injured duck at the side of the pond. no one wanted to help it so we took it to the emergency vets and they will see if it can be saved. i haven’t called yet to find out but we felt really good about trying, duck had bad leg, couldn’t swim and would have suffered out in the heat tomorrow if the ants didn’t get it first. what was really touching was how the other ducks were gathered around him and wouldn’t leave him. wish the duck luck. best, samantha That was so kind of you, samantha. The duck was very lucky that y’all came along. Hope it’s doing better. My nice thing is that the other day I saw a Northern Oriole, and a wild parrot, both within 5 minutes . They were both so incredibly beautiful. mdove — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail: message GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

You would love it where we are – pileated heaven. Someone once counted 26 pileateds at once in a single site.

Yes, I would love that.  I can’t even imagine a sight like that!  About 11 years ago I saw a pair, but hadn’t seen any since, until this one. And we have them living right around us – across the road mostly, in a big old rotten tree. Also, our favorite thing – once we saw a nest of baby ones – just barely fledged – sticking their silly little baby necks all out of the tree squawking for the mthr – and then the next day – they had flown the nest!!!

Oh, wow!!  I’ll bet they were cute (or so ugly they were cute.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We also had a phoebe who nested for years atop the light just outside our door, attached to our house – we passed w/in inches of her nest coming and going all spring and summer. The last summer she was here she raised two broods – they were *darling*!!!! when they were just to the stage of standing on the edge of the nest ready to fly – looking down at us with this completely unfazed gaze – just too, too baby even to care that we were another species – darling.

Wonderful!!!!!   Once we had the privilege of watching a chuck-will’s-widow nesting in our yard (actually, there was no visible nest at all-she just laid her eggs on the ground.  It was a wonderful treat because we had heard them at night for many years, but had never seen one.  We got to see her and her three young ones up close and personal.  An amazing bird–really put on quite a display if anyone got to close to the nest. mdove — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

P.S. – Did you know that pileateds are the only species of woodpecker who begin by pecking slow and get faster as they peck (that is, when they are pecking in rhythm, and not in that single-stroke, deliberate way you mention). So that’s one way you can tell if there are pileateds around even if you don’t see them – their pecking sounds like a ten-penny nail being driven into a telephone pole by an accelerating hammer.

Didn’t know that….or if I did, I forgot W**dy W**dpecker is a pileated. His crazy laugh is modeled on the actual sound they make, which really does sound like maniacal laughter. You can tell the males from the females because the males have crests which are entirely red and the females have crests which are red only along the top of the tuft.

Yep, knew that….this one was a male. You probably know most of that, right? I’m just being excited, because I like to talk about birds.

Several years ago I used to lurk at rec.birds……lots of bird talk there.  At least there used to be.  I used to know a lot more about birds than I do now.  I kind of lost interest while I was really depressed, and have forgotten quite a bit,  but my enthusiasm for birdwatching has been returning during the past couple years.  I need to get some new binoculars and get back out there..   One winter I worked to get chickadees to land in my hands and eat. That spring, they still knew me, and they used to land on my head when I was sitting outside reading. That was one of my most magical experiences ever – the feel of their little feet – I can’t even begin to describe it – and knowing that they would come to me, let their little feathers and bright eyes live so close to my seeing. Beauty.

Oh, that is so cute…..<broad smile  what a wonderful experience. Thank you for sharing this. mdove — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

thanks so much to tv, Beauty, samantha, mdove, and others who’ve talked about their experiences with birds.  :-)  i like watching birds but try to discourage them from being in my yard, partly bc of my cats and partly bc of the neighborhood dogs, including mine. but to have birds land on your head would be magical!  :-) i can’t imagine how much work it must have taken. i’m reminded of Beauty from the story "Beauty" (IIRC) which was a retelling of "Beauty and the Beast". oh, and D*sney’s and others’ versions of the story, too.  :-) e You would love it where we are – pileated heaven.  Someone once counted 26 pileateds at once in a single site.  And we have them living right around us – across the road mostly, in a big old rotten tree.  Also, our favorite thing – once we saw a nest of baby ones – just barely fledged – sticking their silly little baby necks all out of the tree squawking for the mthr – and then the next day – they had flown the nest!!!  We also had a phoebe who nested for years atop the light just outside our door, attached to our house – we passed w/in inches of her nest coming and going all spring and summer.  The last summer she was here she raised two broods – they were *darling*!!!! when they were just to the stage of standing on the edge of the nest ready to fly – looking down at us with this completely unfazed gaze – just too, too baby even to care that we were another species – darling. Beauty.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -One winter I worked to get chickadees to land in my hands and eat.  That spring, they still knew me, and they used to land on my head when I was sitting outside reading.  That was one of my most magical experiences ever – the feel of their little feet – I can’t even begin to describe it – and knowing that they would come to me, let their little feathers and bright eyes live so close to my seeing. Wow, what wonderful sightings, Beauty.  Magical indeed!   I love birds, too, as you might have guessed.  My most exciting sighting this year was a pileated woodpecker.  We get lots of red-bellied, Downy and Hairy woodpeckers, but this was a real treat.  He was magnificent (and noisy, even tho’ he was pecking very slowly and deliberately). mdove Thank you for the nice things. We will tell you of one magical morning. We woke up about 17 years ago in April to a freak blizzard of about four feet, and out of nowhere, perched all over our half a dozen bird feeders (we lived on a hill surrounded by deep woods) were scores of evening grosbeaks – do you know what they look like? Oh, yes.  But I’ve only seen one, many years ago. They are huge brilliant yellow birds  w/parrot beaks and black markings. We couldn’t believe it – we had never seen them before in our lives, and then there they were by the dozen. The other thing we saw that was wonderful once was a group of newly-fledged scarlet tanagers: when they are newly-fledged, they are not completely red yet – they are part red and part green – also like parrots. Amazing! I adore birds – they are the most incredible, incredible, beautiful creatures. There are no words for how wonderful, delicate, unearthly they are. But you know that. Oh – and the unearthly, subtle, inexpressible colors of the mourning doves . . .

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Response:

Sometimes we pretend that when they say "dee dee dee" they are really advertising the latest in video recording technology (DVD).  It’s funny when you think of it in chickadee talk. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – P.S. – Did you know that pileateds are the only species of woodpecker who begin by pecking slow and get faster as they peck (that is, when they are pecking in rhythm, and not in that single-stroke, deliberate way you mention). So that’s one way you can tell if there are pileateds around even if you don’t see them – their pecking sounds like a ten-penny nail being driven into a telephone pole by an accelerating hammer. Didn’t know that….or if I did, I forgot W**dy W**dpecker is a pileated. His crazy laugh is modeled on the actual sound they make, which really does sound like maniacal laughter. You can tell the males from the females because the males have crests which are entirely red and the females have crests which are red only along the top of the tuft. Yep, knew that….this one was a male. You probably know most of that, right? I’m just being excited, because I like to talk about birds. Several years ago I used to lurk at rec.birds……lots of bird talk there.  At least there used to be.  I used to know a lot more about birds than I do now.  I kind of lost interest while I was really depressed, and have forgotten quite a bit,  but my enthusiasm for birdwatching has been returning during the past couple years.  I need to get some new binoculars and get back out there.. One winter I worked to get chickadees to land in my hands and eat. That spring, they still knew me, and they used to land on my head when I was sitting outside reading. That was one of my most magical experiences ever – the feel of their little feet – I can’t even begin to describe it – and knowing that they would come to me, let their little feathers and bright eyes live so close to my seeing. Beauty. Oh, that is so cute…..<broad smile  what a wonderful experience. Thank you for sharing this. mdove — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

Oh, yes, the pileateds were purely cute.  And we do love those ground-nesting "willow" birds – nightjars, are they called, as a type?  Our favorite is the whip-poor-will – what a beautiful, beautiful haunting sound, which echoes from mountain to mountain through the early pre-dawn mists.  And if you hear one close enough, you hear a tiny cough just before the call.  Also reminds me – have you see the woodcocks do their mating dance?  Or hummingbirds? We’ll explain, given the slightest excuse.  Never did see a chuck-will’s-widow.  Our other favorites are the little screech owls we get to hear in our riverine woods, and the pair of great horned owls also nesting along the river.  The female of the species has the deeper voice of the two. Oh, and once a barred owl got tangled in some fishing wire and we got to help rescue her –  and her eyes – oh the solemn depth of blackness – and the soft depth of feathers. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You would love it where we are – pileated heaven. Someone once counted 26 pileateds at once in a single site. Yes, I would love that.  I can’t even imagine a sight like that!  About 11 years ago I saw a pair, but hadn’t seen any since, until this one. And we have them living right around us – across the road mostly, in a big old rotten tree. Also, our favorite thing – once we saw a nest of baby ones – just barely fledged – sticking their silly little baby necks all out of the tree squawking for the mthr – and then the next day – they had flown the nest!!! Oh, wow!!  I’ll bet they were cute (or so ugly they were cute.) We also had a phoebe who nested for years atop the light just outside our door, attached to our house – we passed w/in inches of her nest coming and going all spring and summer. The last summer she was here she raised two broods – they were *darling*!!!! when they were just to the stage of standing on the edge of the nest ready to fly – looking down at us with this completely unfazed gaze – just too, too baby even to care that we were another species – darling. Wonderful!!!!!   Once we had the privilege of watching a chuck-will’s-widow nesting in our yard (actually, there was no visible nest at all-she just laid her eggs on the ground.  It was a wonderful treat because we had heard them at night for many years, but had never seen one.  We got to see her and her three young ones up close and personal.  An amazing bird–really put on quite a display if anyone got to close to the nest. mdove — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And, p.s., we also have wild turkeys in abundance around here, and I saw a baby turkey once and it was *funny* *funny* *funny* looking. And we do love those ground-nesting "willow" birds – nightjars, are they called, as a type? Yep… Our favorite is the whip-poor-will – what a beautiful, beautiful haunting sound, which echoes from mountain to mountain through the early pre-dawn mists. And if you hear one close enough, you hear a tiny cough just before the call. Chuck-will’s-widow sounds very similar to the whip-poor-will, I think, except there is a little "chuck" sound before the call. I didn’t realize the whip-poor-will had the cough sound. Interesting birds. Maybe the cough was a chuck. Seems likely. Or a cluck. Or something. It was a very, very, very small sound, only audible because the bird was practically sitting on my windowsill. Well, under it. Also reminds me – have you see the woodcocks do their mating dance? I’ve never seen a woodcock in RL, only on television. They are pretty cool looking. That must be quite a sight. Here’s what they do. They like to live near wetlands that have adjacent meadows – they go into the meadows at twilight. The males fly straight up like rockets and then come spiraling down – and as they come down, special feathers in their wings cause a whistling sound!!! I’ve seen the females sitting on the ground, too – kind of looking like, "Get off it." You know.

Too cool.  I’d love to see that. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Or hummingbirds? Have seen many ruby-throated, but none doing a mating dance, unfortunately. They are amazing. Male hummingbirds also have special feathers that cause a humming sound when they do their mating thing – which is a wide, swinging, pendulum motion in flight, before the seated female. We’ll explain, given the slightest excuse. Never did see a chuck-will’s-widow. Our other favorites are the little screech owls we get to hear in our riverine woods, and the pair of great horned owls also nesting along the river. The female of the species has the deeper voice of the two. You know, we have one of those bird clocks, and the 12:00 bird is the great horned owl. That is fine for noon, but if I am working at the computer at night, I need to remember to dim the lights in here prior to midnight, or the hoot resounds throughout the house. When we first got the clock, my son used to imitate the owl incessantly. Once I was awakened at 3:00 am by the sound and was just about to yell out at him to knock it off (I wasn’t quite fully awake), when I realized it was the actual bird, very close to our house. We had never heard one before we purchased that silly clock, and were wondering if perhaps the clock had attracted one (it is a really loud clock!) They have about five or six hoots per call – hoo! hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo . . . hoo – I never knew that until I read Peterson’s guide and then heard them.

Yes….this clock is very accurate, as was my son’s imitation.  Now we call all do it, but my son’s hoo-ing is by far the best. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, and once a barred owl got tangled in some fishing wire and we got to help rescue her – and her eyes – oh the solemn depth of blackness – and the soft depth of feathers. What an incredible experience that must have been. Was she calm as you helped her? They’ve got some pretty sharp talons. She was calm as a lamb. I think she was so frightened – she had been up there so long – and probably weak – that she had no fight in her. We have pictures of her, because the local newspaper was there and got color photos.

Wonderful… Thanks for reading. I like this talking about birds – they make me happy when nothing else does.

me, too.  I like butterflies, too.  I used to have 2 butterfly gardens, but surrendered them to the weeds during a couple years of depression. One is totally gone, but the other is probably salvageable.  Maybe I’ll go out there one of these days and try to start rehabilitating it. Today, too, we saw a beautiful butterfly – I don’t know what kind – yellow and black on top with yellow and black and aqua underneath!

Sounds beautiful.  I have a butterfly book around here somewhere. Haven’t looked in it in ages. And the black raspberries suddenly turned ripe – as my son discovered. He wrote a beautiful poem called The Garden: Like the garden of Eden it is. So vast, like the ocean. The hours fly like a bird in the air, when I am there.

Oh, that is beautiful beyond words! Can you see why I love him so much?

Absolutely!    Oh, shoot….it’s midnight, and I forgot to dim the lights.  There goes "Hoots"….. g’night mdove Beauty.

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Response:

snip Thanks for reading. I like this talking about birds – they make me happy when nothing else does. me, too.  I like butterflies, too.  I used to have 2 butterfly gardens, but surrendered them to the weeds during a couple years of depression. One is totally gone, but the other is probably salvageable.  Maybe I’ll go out there one of these days and try to start rehabilitating it.

do you have any recommendations for plants (for next year)? i love butterflies. i have since i was a kid. i used to know quite a bit about them but i’ve forgotten most of it. i’ve never known which plants attract butterflies. TIA (thanks in advance), e — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

What mdove said and also – bergamot, beebalm, monarda (all names for the same thing) – hummingbirds love those, too. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snip Thanks for reading. I like this talking about birds – they make me happy when nothing else does. me, too.  I like butterflies, too.  I used to have 2 butterfly gardens, but surrendered them to the weeds during a couple years of depression. One is totally gone, but the other is probably salvageable.  Maybe I’ll go out there one of these days and try to start rehabilitating it. do you have any recommendations for plants (for next year)? i love butterflies. i have since i was a kid. i used to know quite a bit about them but i’ve forgotten most of it. i’ve never known which plants attract butterflies. TIA (thanks in advance), e — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

snip do you have any recommendations for plants [that attract butterflies]? Well, keep in mind that I’m no expert, and it probably depends on where you live.  You might try some verbena, buddleia (butterfly bush), pentas,

what are pentas? do they take much water? asters, and even marigolds.  In my yard I have blue porterweed, pentas, day lilies, passion flower, lantana, and some other stuff I can’t identify.  

i have day lilies. they grow well, although the ones in shade don’t flower much. is passion flower the same as passion vine (Passifloraceae)? thanks for the recommendations. i’ll try some of them. I know monarchs like milkweed, but I’ve never seen it growing around here, and haven’t tried planting any.  Your local cooperative extension could probably provide you with information about what to plant for butterflies that are inhabitants of your area.

thanks. e — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

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Question:

Looks great!  Wish I could be there. Thanks,Forrest — Forrest http://www.FlyFishingREVIEW.com FlyFishingREVIEW.com WIN ANY SAGE ROD AND A one OF 3 250.00 gift certificates. Before you buy.

Response:

This event is on again starting 8 Apr 00 at Mooloolaba, Sunshine Coast Australia. Our brochure is out now and if anyone would like a copy drop me quick info try our web site at www.australianfishing.net There are three tournaments involved: The Longtail Tuna Chase The Mercury Marine Lure & Fly Shoot Out The Game Flyfishing Invitational Some notables visiting are Cam Sigler (Snr & Jnr), Jack Samson, John Ryzanich, our own Peter Hayes and a heap of others. Peter will be out showing the finer details of that huge cast of his. Hope to see you there. —-

Response:

Question:

Orvis has a "sink tip system’ that includes 5 foot sink-tip sections that will convert a floating line to a sink-tip one. Has anyone tried this? Does it work ok or would I be better off buying an actual sink-tip line?

I have one of these.  I use it on a six weight.  Casts like hell -hinging, etc…  It will get a streamer or nymph down a little, though.  Effective to about six or eight feet.  In general, I would not suggest it.  You can do as well with a longer leader and a couple of split shot with a floating line. J

Response:

Orvis has a "sink tip system’ that includes 5 foot sink-tip sections that will convert a floating line to a sink-tip one. Has anyone tried this? Does it work ok or would I be better off buying an actual sink-tip line?

Frank, I have one of these and they work ok in a pinch if you hit one or two deep sections and then go back to more moderate depths but if you are going to be fishing deep for extended periods of time my advice would be to buy a sink tip.  I do carry the Orvis sink tip for emergency use but they are a pain to cast and don’t get you down as well as a real sink tip fly line would in my experience. Good Fishing, C. Segina

Response:

Orvis has a "sink tip system’ that includes 5 foot sink-tip sections that will convert a floating line to a sink-tip one. Has anyone tried this? Does it work ok or would I be better off buying an actual sink-tip line?

I haven’t seen Orvis’ up close but Cortland’s tend to be too heavy for my 4 wt.  I have a beat up old full sinking 9 wt line and the thin running portion of it is perfect for making mini sink tips.  The only drawback is that this requires a loop to loop connection.  I prefer nail-knotting a piece of thick leader material and then tying a perfection loop at the end since it lands on the water more softly than a fly-line looped end. Mu

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Frank, Splurge and go for the full line in a medium density.  Use it on a longer rod with a short (3 to 4 ft) leader.  The rod length is for mending and good control.  Don’t believe those who say any old rod and a long leader.  You need to mend and the fly needs to sink.  The longer the distance between the fly and the weight of the tip section, the higher the fly will ride.  You can use leader length to fine tune your drift depth. I made those mini sink tips from lead core years ago.  They’ll sink your fly, but you won’t like the casting unless you’re using 8 wt line+.  They cast like slinky weights on running line — chuck and duck. Mike If you buy a sink tip that has too much tip for your needs, you can just cut it down and reattach your leader butt.  

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Frank: I’ve used the Orvis lead head sections – I don’t think they offer them any more – that must be similar (though shorter) than the 5 ft sink -tip head that you are looking at. These things came in 12 inch and 24 inch sections, and could be looped in at the end of the regular fly line, and the leader looped on the other end.  I think they are quite useful in certain circumstances.  I keep them in my vest, and if I need to go deeper in a spot they work very well – but they are not a substitute for a true sink tip line, say for lake fishing. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Orvis has a "sink tip system’ that includes 5 foot sink-tip sections that will convert a floating line to a sink-tip one. Has anyone tried this? Does it work ok or would I be better off buying an actual sink-tip line? Frank

Response:

Orvis has a "sink tip system’ that includes 5 foot sink-tip sections that will convert a floating line to a sink-tip one. Has anyone tried this? Does it work ok or would I be better off buying an actual sink-tip line? Frank

Response:

I have tried these and they will sink your line well but, having a sudden transition to denser line,they are far more difficult to cast than a true sink tip line (but also cheaper). If you have the money for a line and spool, go for the full line. The most effective place for your weight lies in the fly though. Go with a longer leader and a weighted fly for the best effect. Orvis has a "sink tip system’ that includes 5 foot sink-tip sections that will convert a floating line to a sink-tip one. Has anyone tried this? Does it work ok or would I be better off buying an actual sink-tip line? Frank

– Remove "nospam" from address if emailing direct.

Response:

Question:

#but hes like the Senator from my state Jesse #Helms. You may not always agree with him but you always know where #he stands, #he doesn’t teeter or waiver from his beliefs. somebody said back there a bit–if it’s true, why isn’t Jesse insisting that the coons stay in their own part of town as he did back in the good old days? Helms changes, like everybody whose standards are flexible and who considers himself to be a man of principle but returns to the senate voluntarily.  (and many thinking folks hope he comes to his senses.) As for Gierach, he’s an excellent stylist with an ironic wit, and it’s all fiction mind you, which appellation our BB seems to aspire to much more recently. "Strait-laced" as Shakespeare (or should I say the Earl of Oxford?) had it–the pompous Malvolio of Twelfth Night made a fool of himself by coming around in the opposite look, the dandified and contrived "cross-gartered" style. . .in other words, he went out as what he wasn’t, and was laughed off the creek for it.  Went insane, if I remember correctly.  And Shakespeare wrote about what he wasn’t for a buck, collected "such rascal counters" happily; he would have signed his name for more if he’d had the chance, I reckon. Dave

Response:

I actually met John Gierach in Lyons, Colorado at Mike Clarks shop  this last fall.  We stopped by the shop on our way to the Frying Pan.  John G.  was actually very pleasant and eventhough he didn’t have to stay and talk, he did. I haven’t read all the posts about him, but wanted to put in me 2 cents worth about my brief contact with him and how he seemed like a pretty decent guy, besides being a great writer!

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I met John Gierach in Lyons, Colorado at Mike Clarks shop… John was

actually very pleasant and even though he didn’t have to stay and talk, he did. … he seemed like a pretty decent guy,besides being a great writer! Hey Skilch, you’re right about Gierach. I live "up the road" from John, and bump into him, Mike, and the clan on the high country streams occasionally. I’ve also yakked with him at Mike’s rod shop, and been to John’s fly tying clinics. I don’t know Gierach very well, but I like the guy – and I certainly admire what he’s been able to accomplish in his career. Anybody who can win the Robert Traver Award for excellence in outdoor writing, author thousands of magazine articles, newspapers columns, and ten of the best selling fly fishing books in recent history is bound to invite some criticism from those who wish to hell they had his gift – and his success. Too bad. Regards, Dennis

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[deleted] and ten of the best selling fly fishing books in recent history is bound to invite some criticism from those who wish to hell they had his gift – and his success.

Please. Noone (at least not me) is being critical of either: 1) the fact that john is a nice guy  or 2) that they envy his gifts. If you read past the subject line in these posts, you would have had no need to defend him on those scores. In my critical estimation, as a consumer of flyfishing books, John Gierach is a good writer, but not a great writer.  He got someone to publish him, in my opinion, and the rest is history.   Steve Spinolio is a better writer, in my book, than John Gierach, or Russell Chatham.   I enjoy John Geirach at least as much or more than E. Donnel Thomas, "Whitefish Can’t Jump", but they are very much on the same, simple, short story format that does not define great writers.   I like Ted Lesson’s writing better than Gierach. Again, it has nothing to do with John being a good guy or a clever successful hard-working man.  I am certain that he is all that.  You don’t buy a flyrod or a car for that matter just because the builder is a ‘nice guy’.   I liked James Bashline, who was not a writer, really…but offered me something of value in "Nightfishing for Trout". A sad truth is, IMO, the sale of books often has as much to do with the publishers backing them and the level of gloss on the dust jacket as it does quality of content.  The best thing you could do as a writer is get Nick Lyon’s in your court.  That is power there. The number of sales define the number of awards and some of us are simply critical of the writing itself and are not star struck, nor do we have penis envy.  In Johns case, he has moments of really good stuff, but overall the stuff is repetitive, monotonous, politically correct and often boring.   To me, life offers more exciting fishing trips than John Gierach does in his writing.   So sue me. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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: In my critical estimation, as a consumer of flyfishing books, John Gierach : is a good writer, but not a great writer.  He got someone to publish him, in : my opinion, and the rest is history.   Steve Spinolio is a better writer, in : my book, than John Gierach, or Russell Chatham.   I didn’t know Spinolio had written anything beyond a post or two, one of which I have on my office wall.  Where can I find his writing?   To be a writer, one must write.  I battle with this everyday.  I suspect most do. At the very least, Gierach writes in large amount.  That’s something to be proud of.   — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Does Gierach still live in Lyons? I spent summers there (I’m an East Coast boy) in the early ’70’s and fished the St. Vrain top to bottom–my grandfather owned the trailer park in the big bend just outside of Lyons (next box up from the park.) I think I trespassed on his property a few times. Dave

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:I enjoy John Geirach at :least as much or more than E. Donnel Thomas, "Whitefish Can’t Jump", but :they are very much on the same, simple, short story format that does not :define great writers. You were doing just fine Moe until you said the above which caused me to laugh out loud. You can’t take those darn short stories seriously, you slay me sometimes… TC

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they are very much on the same, simple, short story format that does not define great writers.

I gotta wonder what Ernest Hemmingway woulda said about that. Big Two Hearted River for example, is far from simple. Ben

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: In my critical estimation, as a consumer of flyfishing books, John Gierach : is a good writer, but not a great writer.  He got someone to publish him, in : my opinion, and the rest is history.   Steve Spinolio is a better writer, in : my book, than John Gierach, or Russell Chatham.   I didn’t know Spinolio had written anything beyond a post or two, one of which I have on my office wall.  Where can I find his writing?  

Any idea when he is to return? Or if he will? Kiyu

Response:

I actually met John Gierach in Lyons, Colorado at Mike Clarks shop  this last fall.  We stopped by the shop on our way to the Frying Pan.  John G.  was actually very pleasant and eventhough he didn’t have to stay and talk, he did. I haven’t read all the posts about him, but wanted to put in me 2 cents worth about my brief contact with him and how he seemed like a pretty decent guy, besides being a great writer!

If Geirach is really the guy he says he is in his writing, then he reallly doesn’t give a rat’s ass about all these postings about him, pro and con. If he logs on to defend himself, you may be assured he is a fraud. I predict with the former.  One problem I see here is that many insist on judging him as a flyfisherman, based on his writings. The only way you can judge him as a flyfisher, is to fly fish with him. As a reader, you must judge him as an outdoor writer, an entertainer, if you will. On that basis I find him well worth an evening in the easy chair. Since I haven’t fished with him, I can’t comment on the other. DAO DAO

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If Geirach is really the guy he says he is in his writing, then he reallly

doesn’t give a rat’s ass about all these postings about him, pro and con. If he logs on to defend himself, you may be assured he is a fraud. Funny you should bring that up, Dale. I was with John for an hour or so last week, and asked him if he was aware of the dialog about him on the internet. He just chuckled and said, "Yeah,  the guys told me about it. Sounds like those people are pissing away some good fishing time wrangling over nothing." … or words to that effect. He won’t be logging on. He doesn’t own a computer. As a reader, you must judge him as an outdoor writer, an entertainer, if you

will. On that basis I find him, well worth an evening in the easy chair.< Precisely.

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If you read past the subject line in these posts, you would have had no needto

defend him on those scores. Your right Moe, I was arguing apples and oranges here. My apologies.  He got someone to publish him, in

my opinion, and the rest is history. Right again, but he didn’t get just "anyone" to publish him. Pruett, Lyons, Simon & Shuster and Stackpole are hardly the kind of publishing houses to invest in ho-hum writers. <  Steve Spinolio is a better writer, inmy book, than John Gierach, or Russell Chatham … or E. Donnel Thomas I’m not familiar with Spinolio. Is he someone I should be reading. Know where I can find any of his stuff?, but they are very much on the same, simple, short story format that does not

define great writers.  I suspect you may open a real can of worms with that judgement, Moe. A sad truth is, IMO, the sale of books often has as much to do with the

publishers backing them and the level of gloss on the dust jacket as it does quality of content. Maybe, but again, big publishing houses aren’t likely to invest in writers whose work doesn’t sell. As for" quality of content", that’s a pretty subjective matter.   The number of sales define the number of awards… I’m not so sure that’s an accurate statement. Lyons didn’t publish Trout Bum, nor much of Gierach’s other works. And if I’m not mistaken, John won the Traver Award for a fictional piece that appeared in FR & R. nor do we have penis envy.

????Where’d that come from?   In Johns case, he has moments of really good stuff, but overall the stuff is repetitive, monotonous, politically correct and often boring.  To me, life offers more exciting fishing trips than John Gierach does in his writing.  So sue me. Actually, I’d rather go fishing with you, but If I were to sue-  and win – how much could I get? later DES

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To be a writer, one must write.  I battle with this everyday.  I suspect most

do. Amen to that. At the very least, Gierach writes in large amount.  That’s something to be

proud of. And to that one, as well. DES

Response:

Much of Shakepeare’s work was "formulaic" and "Typical" yet in retrospect his work is viewed as "ground breaking".  Perhaps Gierach’s stuff needs the appreciation that only time and distance can impart to the nonappreciative and overly cautious segments of his audience.

Response:

I find it humerous that all these straight laced flyfisherman find the time to criticize one of their own. I pose a question to any of you who find it within your right to criticize John at a personal or professional level:Have you ever had a conversation with the man? Do you know him and how he lives and his quality of life? I think that most critics would say NO to these questions. John is a very simple man. He’s a very acute journalist who has developed a style both in and out of the newspapers of his own. He is a fine flyfisherman and a generally nice guy to know. Most people who know him feel the same way. If one thing you can say of John, and I hope not to insult him with this comparison, but hes like the Senator from my state Jesse Helms. You may not always agree with him but you always know where he stands, he doesn’t teeter or waiver from his beliefs. A quality I believe to be a goal for most men. The other point is I believe that most flyfisherman, a strangely stoic bunch as it goes, are somewhat jealous of a man who can do what most of us want to do ALL the time instead of just some of the time, like most of us. So don’t wander down a road that you’re not familiar with, you may hit a tree or a parked car or Butch, the local dog who everybody in town knows would be sleeping in the road at 2:00pm on a tuesday. It might be hazardous. Jim Brady

Response:

I was with you until you last paragraph. Literature, great and small, is open game to critics and it is wonderful for an author to have a defender. But, to think that people offer an descenting opinion because they are jealous of a guy who fishes for a living is absurd. By in large, my fly fishers are smarter and better read than that. It’s an opinion. Agree. Disagree. Who cares. I can speak to the issue with a decent amount of authority. I have been in the communications industry for 27-plus years and have only fly fished for half that time. Gierach is a fine writer. I have most of his books. But, I think we all can agree that he is not producing groundbreaking work here. His stuff is Day Berry In Waders, whihc is fine. Hell, Dave Berry won a Pulitzer. As much as I like Gierach, he gets, like anyone else who writes for pay alot, myself included, formulaic, and hence some of his stuff becomes "typical". Knowing where someone stands is not necessarily the greatest commendation one can make about literature. Read Mein Kampf and you know where that guy stood too! My view is simple, stuff like Gierach’s should entertain and inform. Period. I do not expect it to change my life or create a new vision for my life. I leave that to far better writers with something to say on the topic. But, as for whiling away an evening after slaving over a hot word processor all day, I’ll take Gierach any day of the week. Ask the man and I am sure he will tell you he is not out to change the world. He’;s a writer and damn few of us are good enough to change the world. But, if we any good at what we do, we can inform and entertain for a while, even a moment. So, lighten up! Besides, I think Gierach is a big boy and can defend himself nicely. Hollis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find it humerous that all these straight laced flyfisherman find the time to criticize one of their own. I pose a question to any of you who find it within your right to criticize John at a personal or professional level:Have you ever had a conversation with the man? Do you know him and how he lives and his quality of life? I think that most critics would say NO to these questions. John is a very simple man. He’s a very acute journalist who has developed a style both in and out of the newspapers of his own. He is a fine flyfisherman and a generally nice guy to know. Most people who know him feel the same way. If one thing you can say of John, and I hope not to insult him with this comparison, but hes like the Senator from my state Jesse Helms. You may not always agree with him but you always know where he stands, he doesn’t teeter or waiver from his beliefs. A quality I believe to be a goal for most men. The other point is I believe that most flyfisherman, a strangely stoic bunch as it goes, are somewhat jealous of a man who can do what most of us want to do ALL the time instead of just some of the time, like most of us. So don’t wander down a road that you’re not familiar with, you may hit a tree or a parked car or Butch, the local dog who everybody in town knows would be sleeping in the road at 2:00pm on a tuesday. It might be hazardous. Jim Brady

Response:

Another follow-up on this thread… Just don’t read or buy the books he has written if you don’t like his writing.  As for me, I like a lot of what John has written. Most of his writing is non-technical, and therefore fine pleasure reading, if I’m into it. While Christmas cleaning btw, I perused through a lot of old Fly Fisherman and Rod and Reel Mags in my collection dating all the way back to the early eighties.  The writer in question (John) has been around for a long time, has "paid his dues," and in a professional sense is worthy of respect even if many people don’t like his work.  No need for debate or slander of the individual on a ng forum. Wayne Fenior Midland, MI – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was with you until you last paragraph. Literature, great and small, is open game to critics and it is wonderful for an author to have a defender. But, to think that people offer an descenting opinion because they are jealous of a guy who fishes for a living is absurd. By in large, my fly fishers are smarter and better read than that. It’s an opinion. Agree. Disagree. Who cares. I can speak to the issue with a decent amount of authority. I have been in the communications industry for 27-plus years and have only fly fished for half that time. Gierach is a fine writer. I have most of his books. But, I think we all can agree that he is not producing groundbreaking work here. His stuff is Day Berry In Waders, whihc is fine. Hell, Dave Berry won a Pulitzer. As much as I like Gierach, he gets, like anyone else who writes for pay alot, myself included, formulaic, and hence some of his stuff becomes "typical". Knowing where someone stands is not necessarily the greatest commendation one can make about literature. Read Mein Kampf and you know where that guy stood too! My view is simple, stuff like Gierach’s should entertain and inform. Period. I do not expect it to change my life or create a new vision for my life. I leave that to far better writers with something to say on the topic. But, as for whiling away an evening after slaving over a hot word processor all day, I’ll take Gierach any day of the week. Ask the man and I am sure he will tell you he is not out to change the world. He’;s a writer and damn few of us are good enough to change the world. But, if we any good at what we do, we can inform and entertain for a while, even a moment. So, lighten up! Besides, I think Gierach is a big boy and can defend himself nicely. Hollis

Response:

Tim, I think if I could paraphrase your response–if you’re gonna set up shop as an icon (or let others set you up), you better expect some iconoclasts will come along. It goes with the job. I have to agree…good, not great. Trouble is, good writers don’t usually stay in print 50 years later. And in 100 years, no one remembers who the good writers were. That’s a tribute for great writers, and I don’t think we should start throwing that appelation around lightly. BTW–do you know where these straight-laced, stoic fishermen are. They’re not around here, that’s for damned sure! I don’t think I last an afternoon fishing with one of ‘em! Roger

Response:

I find it humerous that all these straight laced flyfisherman find the time to criticize one of their own.

        (lots of stuff snipped) , but hes like the Senator from my state Jesse Helms. You may not always agree with him but you always know where he stands, he doesn’t teeter or waiver from his beliefs. A quality I believe to be a goal for most men.

        let me tell you, jack, that he is also my senior senator, a fact that renders me nauseous, but is presently unavoidable.  and if you think ol jesse wouldn’t sell every goddam inch of hazel creek to the highest bidder in the tree cuttin industry, then you are blind as a bat.  and having read gierach, i can’t believe he would accept such a comparison. The other point is I believe that most flyfisherman, a strangely stoic bunch as it goes, are somewhat jealous of a man who can do what most of us want to do ALL the time instead of just some of the time,

        how much the guy fishes has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of his prose.  which, imho, is very high.  but your apology for him, in the face of timbo’s protestations, is lamentable.         a. wayne harrison

Response:

Much of Shakepeare’s work was "formulaic" and "Typical" yet in retrospect his work is viewed as "ground breaking".  Perhaps Gierach’s stuff needs the appreciation that only time and distance can impart to the nonappreciative and overly cautious segments of his audience.

Is it really you ?  I thought you were dead ? Comparing Gierach to Shakespeare ? Like the guy that painted a happy face on a dairy cows underside. Udderly Silly. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

I find it humerous that all these straight laced flyfisherman

I’ve spent enough time around this group the past couple of years to know that most of the laces don’t get any crookeder than the ones you’ll find round here. Nope…not a straight lace in the bunch (I say that with pride, so don’t anyone get offended). Roger

Response:

Much of Shakepeare’s work was "formulaic" and "Typical" yet in retrospect his work is viewed as "ground breaking".  Perhaps Gierach’s stuff needs the appreciation that only time and distance can impart to the nonappreciative and overly cautious segments of his audience.

I would have to disagree on calling much of Shakespeare formulaic or typical. Sure, he may have used some common conventions and story lines adopted from other sources, but if you compare Shakespeare’s King Lear, for example, with contemporary version’s like Nahum Tate’s, Big Bill the Bard’s on a whole new plane. As for Geirach I don’t think the same can be said. I have read and enjoyed his work as light reading over my lunch hour. Or on a camping trip. Groundbreaking? Unconventional? Original? I don’t think so. There is very little that hasn’t been done before by others, and won’t be done again. It’s not even a terribly distinctive voice. This doesn’t make it unpleasant or without value. But I don’t think it’s the kind of stuff posterity is going to elevate into the canon of great works. If you went back 100-200 years and looked at the best selling books…other than the bible, you probably wouldn’t recogize many of them. The reason they were so popular was not that they were original, but rather that they perfectly mimicked the conventions of their day. They appealed to contemporary tastes. That…I think…is what Geirach does. He ain’t writing for the ages. Roger

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Seems to me that how nice a guy a person is, how authentic or otherwise attractive his lifestyle might ain’t got a lot to do with the quality of his writing, and thus the orig. poster just misses the point of some of Gierach’s detractors entirely. Hemmingway, for instance, does not seem to be the kind of guy one would enjoy spending lots of time with, and while through happy circumstances I can afford to fish as much as Gierach (or maybe even more), that don’t make me a writer.         That said, I think that most if not all of Gierach’s detractors miss a point too, and that is that almost no author I know of who has turned out more than just a book or two is able to maintain the same quality of prose over and over and over again. But even then, there are authors who write one great great work and then are either silent or write crap, and others who simply maintain a fairly high level consistently  throughout their careers.         For my money I suspect some of Gierach’s stuff

Question:

As with anything having to do with this sport, get the best you can afford. Metz, Spencer, and a half-dozen other growers often sell half capes for about the same price as the next grade down. Unless you are tying up to professional prodution a good #2 grade half will last through several seasons. Everyone resents the initial outlay of $$$ for a good cape, but the payoff is you don’t purchase them very often. Cabela’s and other supply houses also sell decent genetic necks that are quite useful, if limited in size and color.

Response:

how bout finding some fishin’ buddies to split some necks with….that how I started out. some times stores will sell you split necks, if you take classes from them…they can always use the other half in class or for production tying. i agree with the other respondent, however, buy the best you can..you’ll be disappointed with the #3’s for drys size 14 and smaller. happy tying,….and DON"T GIVE UP!! there aren’t enuff of us out there! #:)#  Larry Medina

Response:

Hoffman Super Saddle. Tons of real long feathers 10 down to 18 or so. Can tie two or three flies per feather.

Response:

I need some new hackle, I’m getting better at tieing, and the hackle from the kit sucks.  I would like to hear some opinions on which Hackle to buy.   I am leaning towards Metz grade #3 in Grizzly from Orvis (29 bucks), anyone know of a better deal let me know.  Thanks. Scott

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought that a grade three hackle would be better for tying wet flies than dry, but I just read an article that said that they rate the hackle by the count of usable feathers, the main size, and length. I thought that a grade 3 hackle would be softer hackle than a grade 1 or 2 is this true or are there just more usable feathers on a grade 1. Can you tye as good a dry with a grade 3 hackle as you could with grade 1.  I am simply a begginer I dont know grade 3 hackles are softer by expierience I just thought that was how it was THANKS! The factors that determine a hackle grade are numerous.  A neck or saddle are graded on the number of usable hackles, length of hackle, color, webbiness, stem diameter and uniformity of barbule lengtht. Now the problem arises when you compare hackles from two different companies.  A #2 Hoffman  may be better than a #1Metz metz.  Will a #3 be "softer"?  Well yes it may have a little, or a lot, more web depending on the company.  A #3 Hoffman will tie a good dry fly, but some of the other companies it may not.   The best thing to do is to inspect it carefully before you buy it.  Generally it can be said that you will get what you pay for. About 7 years ago I bought my first Hoffman saddle and now I am hooked.  I have currently 5 Hoffman saddles and 3 necks.  They are the only ones I use for my dries.  I know they are kinda expensive and I have a tight budget, but they are worth it.  There is nothing more frustrating to me than trying to tie a good fly with a shitty feather.   Good Luck, Marty

Hi Marty, I agree. Hoffman is only company that has saddle hackle that is small and stiff for trout dries. In the old days, we always used rooster saddles for wets and rooster necks for dries. Henry Hoffman changed that. Metz saddles are better for wet flies as they don’t seem to be stiff enough for dries. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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  <big snip   Then Metz started to become available and Henry started to bring over some of his first "super grizzly".  This is one area where materials have only gotten better.

  Amen to that. Several months ago a guy came into the local shop carrying grampa’s tying kit. Grampa must have been a serious tyer, the kit had a lot of really nice stuff (jungle cock cape, etc), the tools and thread were all top quality from that era. The dry fly hackles were a different story altogether; the individual feathers were all tapered, the stems were thick (compared to modern hackle), and none of the feathers would tie smaller than about sz 10. Charlie

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writes: Amen to that. Several months ago a guy came into the local shop carrying grampa’s tying kit. Grampa must have been a serious tyer, the kit had a lot of really nice stuff (jungle cock cape, etc), the tools and thread were all top quality from that era. The dry fly hackles were a different story altogether; the individual feathers were all tapered, the stems were thick (compared to modern hackle), and none of the feathers would tie smaller than about sz 10.

I’m not yet as old as grandpa, but a size 16 would be the smallest you could find on a neck, they would be less than an inch long, and you would need to use at 3 or 4 feathers to tie one fly.  Thought I’d died and gone to heaven when I got my first Metz #2 brown neck.  I still have it but there are no feathers left smaller than #10.                                                         Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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writes:    Hi! I thought that a grade three hackle would be better for tying wet flies than dry, but I just read an article that said that they rate the hackle by the count of usable feathers, the main size, and length. I thought that a grade 3 hackle would be softer hackle than a grade 1 or 2 is this true or are there just more usable feathers on a grade 1. Can you tye as good a dry with a grade 3 hackle as you could with grade 1.  I am simply a begginer I dont know grade 3 hackles are softer by expierience I just thought that was how it was THANKS!

Hi Dolph, As others have said here, none of the growers grade on the same standards.  But within a particular brand, there is a big difference between a #1 and a #3. Historically (this is all subject to change), the #1 necks had higher feather counts, smaller sizes, less webbing, longer length feathers (more useable feather), more flexible stems,  rounder stems, and denser barb counts on the feather (more barbs per inch).  Usually the biggest difference between 1 and 2’s is the quantity of small sizes – more of the 20 through 24 sizes on the #1’s.  Often the #1’s don’t have useable size 10 or 12 feathers because the stems are too thick.  #3 necks often have more webbing than 1’s or 2’s but not always.  Most often the biggest difference between 2’s and 3’s is that the stems on the 3’s are stiffer, and sometimes oblong instead of round.  This makes them very tough to wind. The grading system is hardly perfect and you can often look through a batch of #2’s and find some that are as good as the #1’s and #’3s that are as good as 2’s.   Nothing compares to the Hoffman’s necks.  Their #2’s are comparable to just about anyone elses #1’s.  The saddles make great dry fly tying feathers but primarily have only 2 sizes on them.  The necks have a wide assortment of sizes.  Haven’t seen any saddles that will compare with the Hoffman’s for dry flys. For wet flies I still use hen neck feathers.  They are shorter and have more rounded tips.  These are always webby and fold easily for that swept back look on wets.  Used to be able to find them easily and they were cheap.  Haven’t seen many in recent years.  Get them if you can find them, they are a far better choice for wet flies than rooster necks. We are spoiled today with the necks available.  I remember when indian capes were all that you could get.  I would take a trip over to Tigard, OR once in a while just to paw through Kaufmann’s capes.  Lance and Randall would go over to India each year, select their own stock, and bring it back.  Then Metz started to become available and Henry started to bring over some of his first "super grizzly".  This is one area where materials have only gotten better.                          Good Tying,                               Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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When you use TWO on a dry fly, you need to take a size 16 (for example) feather from the right side of a cape and the left side.   Mr. G.

Good post.   I’m curious about your left/right suggestion.  I never make any effort to use feathers from opposite sides of the cape when double wrapping. Could you elaborate more on why this is useful? Regards, Joe.  

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        Hi! I thought that a grade three hackle would be better for tying wet flies than dry, but I just read an article that said that they rate the hackle by the count of usable feathers, the main size, and length. I thought that a grade 3 hackle would be softer hackle than a grade 1 or 2 is this true or are there just more usable feathers on a grade 1. Can you tye as good a dry with a grade 3 hackle as you could with grade 1.  I am simply a begginer I dont know grade 3 hackles are softer by expierience I just thought that was how it was THANKS!                                         Dolph

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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DEAR BUZZARD:  You happen to ask a question that I must rise too.  It is an excellent question.  May I add a few thoughts to get this discussion going? The observation is keen that different hackle manufacturers are indeed grading their hackles differently.  In fact, I doubt the lot of them ever got together and came up with a standard that rates necks from different companies to the same matching-game.  Everyone should give this some thought. Frankly Buzzard, you’re going to have to become a good judge of hackle/necks yourself.  There are certain things you must always pay attention too and I’m not about to cover them all here and now.  But each tier has certain patterns that require different advantages from feathers.  They can be softness, hardness, webbing, lack of webbing, short feathers, long feathers, narrow and wide, the combinations are endless and all feathers have a use in fly tying in one fly or another. Remembe this.  Never throw them away. Besides colors (any color) A feather for DRY FLY FISHING is different in desired aspects than hen feathers for wet flies, nymphs, streamers, etc. BUT!  A hen feather doesn’t necessarily mean it is a feather of less worth. I (personally) won’t settle for a number two neck when for a few dollars more I will be happier with a number one (1)!  The difference between a two and a one can be miles apart even though the numbers are next to each other.  Numbers mean different values to different people.  In grading feathers (Cock necks) throw the number system out the window. Waste it.  It means nothing between manufacturers, BUT with a specific manufacturer such as Hoffman necks, it can be a very reliable numbering system because of one factor.  Hoffman Products (now raised in Grand Junction Colorado) are CONSISTANT and TIGHT in quality.  Whereas; Metz Necks vary with the wind and each chicken season.  Quality always suffers when production increases beyond supervisory abilities.  Hate to say it, but its true. A DRY FLY FEATHER must have certain factors for each tier.  Length, evenly wide hackles, very little webbing, barbel stiffness, sharp tips (not curled on the ends, etc.) flexiable (not brittle) stems, maturity, (in look and feel)  and when you inspect a neck, make sure the skin isn’t brittle so it will crack when bent a little.  (Use some gink on the skin back to keep it from drying out.  Excellent for this, incidently.  And please everyone, don’t slam me for offering a friendly fact) So, basically, today . . .  because of neck retail prices, the trend is splitting a Hoffman neck.  When you buy a split, you are getting only right handed or left  handed bends in feathers.  When you use TWO on a dry fly, you need to take a size 16 (for example) feather from the right side of a cape and the left side.  So, what I’m saying, is . . . if at all possible, always buy the complete neck if its financially comfortable or possible. I’ll let everyone take it from here. Mr. G.         Hi! I thought that a grade three hackle would be better for tying wet flies than dry, but I just read an article that said that they rate the hackle by the count of usable feathers, the main size, and length. I thought that a grade 3 hackle would be softer hackle than a grade 1 or 2 is this true or are there just more usable feathers on a grade 1. Can you tye as good a dry with a grade 3 hackle as you could with grade 1.  I am simply a begginer I dont know grade 3 hackles are softer by expierience I just thought that was how it was THANKS!                                         Dolph

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Question:

i’ve asked about fishing in colorado during the first week of april, and i’ve gotten mixed responses.  some say i’ll need an ice pick, others say there will be good fishing.  i’m confused. i’ll be staying in winter park, but would be willing to drive 1.5-2 hours to get  to a fishable locale.  i’m new to fly fishing, so i probably will be practicing my casting more than catching fish, but who knows?  any tips would be appreciated. anyone in colorado up for some fishing? (or teaching?) thanks, narayan — Narayan Nayar

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Dear Novice, I am an avid flyfisherman in Colorado and fish all season.  Depending on where you go you may encounter ice or clear, cold water.  The South Platte River, although heavily fished, can be fished all year around.  The area around Deckers is the most popular and has "Gold Medal" water.  You can pull out a 10lb rainbow in some of the deeper Holes (Gilpen Trail) or below Cheesman Dam.  Another place to fish is the Blue River in Silverthorne.  Some of the biggest fish are right below the Dam and in back of the outlet stores.  Word has it that their are 15lb Rainbows that are in their.  They feed on Miasis (sp?) Shrimp.  These are all within about 2 hrs or less.  One thing to remember is that the weather can be either beautiful and 50 degrees, or snowing 6-12 inches (especially in Summit county). Those are two places that you can try.  They are popular, but there are many fishing stores around to help you with fly selection and equipment.

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Question:

The last time I used a dropper fly I had horrible problems with the line tangling up. I had attached the fly to the tag end of a surgeons knot Has anyone got any suggestions for keeping the whole thing untangled when fishing? I guess you could attach the dropper onto the first fly, but I often wonder about hooking success? Any thots would be appreciated. Jeff Dueck Calgary Alberta Canada

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The last time I used a dropper fly I had horrible problems with the line tangling up. I had attached the fly to the tag end of a surgeons knot Has anyone got any suggestions for keeping the whole thing untangled when fishing? I guess you could attach the dropper onto the first fly, but I often wonder about hooking success? Any thots would be appreciated.

I use a two-fly rig often.  I tie the upper fly onto the end of the taper then with this attached I tie my tippet in with a barrel knot, leaving the fly hanging about 2" from the knot.  As long as the lower fly is heavier and the upper isn’t hanging down too far I don’t have problems. When I tangle it is the fault of my casting.  When I overpower the rod it forms a "tailing loop" where the flies tangle in the line.  With a two fly rig it works best to cast a gentle slow cast with a nice wide loop. If it’s windy forget the upper fly. Mark Vinsel Visit my gallery: http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.HTML

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The last time I used a dropper fly I had horrible problems with the line tangling up. I had attached the fly to the tag end of a surgeons knot Has anyone got any suggestions for keeping the whole thing untangled when fishing? I guess you could attach the dropper onto the first fly, but I often wonder about hooking success? Any thots would be appreciated. Jeff Dueck Calgary Alberta Canada

I have good luck by tying a loop knot into my tippet and then tying a pefection loop into my dropper leader, and looping them together.  Keep the dropper leader short, less than 6 inches, and the stiffness of the loop junction will keep you good. ATB

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The last time I used a dropper fly I had horrible problems with the line tangling up. I had attached the fly to the tag end of a surgeons knot Has anyone got any suggestions for keeping the whole thing untangled when fishing?

I tie the tippet for the dropper to the curve in the hook of the first fly (usually a dry, with the dropper a nymph) using an improved clinch knot. I’ve never lost a dropper even tho’ my hooks are debarbed, and I don’t think that the dropper has interfered with hookups on the upper fly. The big advantage is that this rig casts much like a single fly and avoids the twists and snarls that I formerly encountered tying the dropper off from the leader above the other fly.

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The last time I used a dropper fly I had horrible problems with the line tangling up. I had attached the fly to the tag end of a surgeons knot Has anyone got any suggestions for keeping the whole thing untangled when fishing?

Tom Johnson at Johnson’s Pere Marquette Lodge taught me to tie a second peice of tippet to the eye of the first fly, and attach the second fly to the second tippet.  So far it has worked great for me. . Lenny Bloksberg . .

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The last time I used a dropper fly I had horrible problems with the line tangling up. I had attached the fly to the tag end of a surgeons knot Has anyone got any suggestions for keeping the whole thing untangled when fishing?

        Another method of avoiding tangles is to run your tippet through the eye of the dropper fly, tie on another length of tippet with a double surgeon’s knot and then tie on your tail fly. The dropper fly runs free but snugs up against the surgeon’s knot during casting. The only problem is that the dropper fly can’t be larger than a #14 or it slides over the knot but I rarely use flies that large so it’s no problem.

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: The last time I used a dropper fly I had horrible problems with the line : tangling up. I had attached the fly to the tag end of a surgeons knot : Has anyone got any suggestions for keeping the whole thing untangled : when fishing? : :       Another method of avoiding tangles is to run your tippet through : the eye of the dropper fly, tie on another length of tippet with a double : surgeon’s knot and then tie on your tail fly. The dropper fly runs free : but snugs up against the surgeon’s knot during casting. The only problem : is that the dropper fly can’t be larger than a #14 or it slides over the : knot but I rarely use flies that large so it’s no problem. For a classical dropper, make sure that you are using a reasonably stiff piece of mono to make the leader.  I find that if the mono can support the weight of the fly horizontally over the 5-10 cm length of the dropper, then it is stiff enough not to tangle when casting.  However, I too prefer the methods previously mentioned.

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Tom Johnson at Johnson’s Pere Marquette Lodge taught me to tie a second peice of tippet to the eye of the first fly, and attach the second fly to the second tippet.  So far it has worked great for me.

This works only if the eye is complete – and many hooks have either a small gap in the eye, or where the wire was cut may have sharp corners exposed to the inside of the eye. Neither of these may affect the mainline, but a trailing dropper might decide to go it alone with some vigorous casting… <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <           "Read this and nobody gets hurt"           < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

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The real key is learning to cast.  Don’t bother with any kind of dropper set up if you can’t exercise a modicum of loop control in all wind/weather conditions.                                 Mike in PDX                "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                            Tom McGuane

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You can attach an additional wet fly to your leader by leaving the heavier tag end of the barrel knot closest to your tippet a little long.   If the barrel knot is tied properly, the heavier tage end should stick out at 180 degrees from the tippet tag end.  Trim off the tag end of the tippet and just tie the additional fly to the remaining line.  The dropper line should be short (I usually use 6-8 inches) and no finer than 3X, or else it will tangle.  You can use this to attach as many flies as you want further up the leader too. Jim Davis Philadelphia, PA Temple University

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