Question:

The biggest news is no news.   Expected ROFF population is presently four, with at least one maybe.   There’s still one bed available Thurs-Sat & one Fri-Sat.   Friday night is still arbitrarily selected as the BS/drinking/cigar/tying get-together at Malinda’s in Altmar.   Sorry, no raffle. I’m planning to have an FRS radio on me when I’m not at Malinda’s, so if you’re driving up or you’re near the river, try shouting for me on FRS ch.9 if you have one yourself.   Friday, I’m likely to be around the FFO stretch at Altmar or down at the Trestle Pool; but it’s way too soon to say. I’m getting together w/ fishing buddy on Thursday for lunch to compare fly boxes in time to fill perceived shortages.   If (big IF) I can get my shit together, I want to photograph one of every fly we have between us & post the photos on the website.   http://home.att.net/~fleischman/SalmonRiver.htm My present fly inventory includes: chenille egg patterns (various colors) on #10’s sparkle chenille eggs (various colors) on #8 3906 Purple Flash nymph version on 3906 #8  (awesome last year) Altmar Sunrise, #8 Comets, pink & orange on 3906B, #8 Lazer eggs (orange, pink, chartr.) A comet variety I’ve been messing with but looks great.   It’s an unweighted comet on a 3906 w/ short marabou tail, oval tinsel body, bucktail wing (w/ a few strands of krystal flash), & collar hackle.   I’ve tied ‘em in purple, pink, & chartreuse so far & I’m expecting great things (gotta do some orange, but don’t have the bucktail).   If they work & it hasn’t been done before, I’ll give it a name; but it’s too similar to a comet to be anything but a variety thereof. I think I’m forgetting something.   I’ll have to get my fly box out & see what else is in there.  I have heard at least one early report that black wooly buggers were slayin’ ‘em.   Is there any fish that doesn’t work for? A reminder of the dates in case anyone’s interested: October 17-20, Altmar, NY Joe F.

Response:

Expected ROFF population is presently four, with at least one maybe.

Upgrade that ‘maybe’ to ‘probable’.

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Question:

Looking for a site that talks about the basics of saltwater flyfishing for stripers (especially if it mentions the New Jersey coast). Am interested in trying it this summer and would like to learn the basics. Thanks!

Response:

Looking for a site that talks about the basics of saltwater flyfishing for stripers (especially if it mentions the New Jersey coast). Am interested in trying it this summer and would like to learn the basics. Thanks!

Hey Mark,         SoJersery Fly Fishers will hold some courses on this topic this year. I’ll see if I can find out more… I am gonna go to their meeting this Thursday… — Michael Era

Question:

I managed a nasty face plant on that trip because I stood up, took a step and snagged my fin on the oar. Don’t forget to get those fins off before you stand up. They call me grace. snip- BTW I lost a fin (also borrowed) when the bottom muck pulled – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it off while I was trying to stand. Use straps.

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Thanks for the input, chaps, much appreciated.  Confirmed much of what I thought. Another Question … Do you drift rivers in pairs? For safety as well as convenience. I’m thinking about car relays, like we do for the raft, i.e drop a vehicle (usually after depositing the raft at put in) at a takeout. I suppose its possible some pontoons would be light enough to carry some way (not that I’ve seen any here yet).   Steve BTW: Ryan, I don’t need no flippers, oars or other props to do a face plant.

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I rented a pontoon boat this summer and floated my favorite river. The Yakima river in central Washington is a "large river" to me (in most places I cannot stand on one bank and cast across to the other…). The water for the most part, and depending on the time of year, is calm. There are a few stretches of heavy ripples, but they only stretch for approximately 50 yards or so. It’s easy enough to bear down and get past them. Prior to floating the river on the pontoon boat, I was always dependant upon a guide, and their boat, to fish this river effectively. Wading access is limited by steep and rocky banks in most areas. Since I’ve floated the river several times with a guide, I’m comfortable enough to know where the good spots are and I’m efficient enough to get to them on a pontoon boat. When I pontoon drifted the river, I tried (mostly unsuccessfully) to fish as I drifted as opposed to drifting from location to location. It’s difficult to successfully consider your position on the river, hold a rod, worry about fly lines and keep the oars pointed in the right direction all at once. Not a pretty site and not a stress free afternoon. My recommendation would be: 1) absolutely try it. 2) don’t wear flippers on the river (too hard to control and definately hard to get out of the boat when you get anchored at a good spot). 3) mainly fish once you get to the proper location on the river. 4) don’t worry about fishing while you’re on the move on the boat. I must say that as I reflect on the times that I’ve caught fish on the river, either with a guide or on the pontoon boat, it’s always been a situation where I could have been standing in a foot or two of water. Now I have to go weigh my options: to buy a new 3wt fly rod and reel this winter, or get a new pontoon boat instead… Ryan

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I understand that its possible to use flippers as well oars to control these craft, thus freeing up the hands for other purposes, but is it feasible to fish on any but the slooooowest moving streams in this manner?

I know its possible, because I’ve seen people doing it.  When I tried it myself, though, I quickly realized that I wasn’t coordinated enough to control the boat and fish at the same time.  Of course, I’ve never been the most graceful person in the world. Kevin

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I have a pontoon boat, and fish rivers and lakes using it. For lake fishing, it is very comfortable to wear flippers to move to boat slowly, hold position, or work slowly over an area. You can move quite quickly over longre distances by using the oars. The boats sit high in the water, and move quite easily. They are responsive and you can fish while using flippers to control the boat. The only down side to the pontoon boats on lakes is that in windy areas like where I live, it sometimes gets too hard to control the boats with flippers. I have used pontoon boats on reasonably fast, waters in the Canadian Rockies. I wear wading boots, and use the oars for controlling direction. I would never wear flippers on a river. Just too dangerous. I do not fish while travelling, but use the boat for access. You drift downstream for a while, stop when you reach good water, and fish. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – G’day all, Here in Aus. we’re starting to see an influx of watercraft such as pontoon boats (at absolutely ludicrous prices i.e. way too much but thats another story).  Along with the influx comes the hype and in particular the claim that they can be used on rivers to "fish while you drift". Now I think controlling the craft while drifting while fishing would be difficult in the extreme on moving water.  In fact I susepect it might be outright dangerous – sure the craft can be used to drift from location to location, but fishing from it at the same time? I understand that its possible to use flippers as well oars to control these craft, thus freeing up the hands for other purposes, but is it feasible to fish on any but the slooooowest moving streams in this manner? Thoughts? experiences? Steve

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G’day all, Here in Aus. we’re starting to see an influx of watercraft such as pontoon boats (at absolutely ludicrous prices i.e. way too much but thats another story).  Along with the influx comes the hype and in particular the claim that they can be used on rivers to "fish while you drift".   Now I think controlling the craft while drifting while fishing would be difficult in the extreme on moving water.  In fact I susepect it might be outright dangerous – sure the craft can be used to drift from location to location, but fishing from it at the same time? I understand that its possible to use flippers as well oars to control these craft, thus freeing up the hands for other purposes, but is it feasible to fish on any but the slooooowest moving streams in this manner? Thoughts? experiences? Steve

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Question:

<cruel gastronomic description filleted Hell of a thing to do to a guy at three in the afternoon with nothing edible is sight! But this is the kind of story we like to read.  While mostly a C&R fisherman (Egad, here it comes again!!) I do nevertheless keep enough to treat myself once in a while.  Your description of smoked ducks brings to mind my favorite preparation for trout.  We set them on the Weber, as far from a small pile of glowing coals as possible and leave them for about an hour and a half, all the while adding small amounts of soaked hickory chips to the fire; just enough to keep the smoke going strong.  Sinfully good!  But to top it off (and healthy be damned!) I like to slather on a bit of brie. As for the elk, or any of it’s relatives for that matter, my favorite is still soaking in olive oil for a few hours, wrapping in bacon and grilling over a hot bed of coals until medium rare, at most.  Personally I prefer rare, but most of the people with whom I enjoy this treat like it cooked a bit more.  For those who like to live close to the edge in these diet conscious days, the aforementioned soft cheese can also be applied to red meat. Also……but no, it’ll have to wait for another time….I gotta go get something to eat!

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Actually, last April we dined on a brace of Elk Steaks marinated for

(delicious feast snipped) Omigosh, Larry! If you can’t figure out anything worthwhile to do with your elk, let me know what Wolfgang can’t use and I’ll send you my UPS address! Hate to see it go to waist (sp intentional!). Drooling out loud, Rick

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As for the elk, or any of it’s relatives for that matter, my favorite is still soaking in olive oil for a few hours, wrapping in bacon and grilling over a hot bed of coals until medium rare, at most.  Personally I prefer rare, but most of the people with whom I enjoy this treat like it cooked a bit more.  For those who like to live close to the edge in these diet conscious days, the aforementioned soft cheese can also be applied to red meat.

While simultaneously drooling on my keyboard, I gotta ask: Not that it’s stopped me from slurping down raw oysters or eating my steaks rare, but we’ve all seen the "news magazine" horror stories about contamination of domestic meats; and we’ve all been cautioned about the wisdom of thoroughly cooking our food.   So this "wild meat" thread has me wondering.   Nutritional values aside, is there a similar risk of e-coli or parasitic infection from eating game cooked rare?   Just wondering. Joe F.

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Joe- I’m sure the same concerns exist, especially because this meat isn’t irradiated to kill any potential diseases and like most hunters, the animals are field dressed, packaged well enough to pack out against the heat of one’s body on a frame and kept from thorough refrigeration for a day or more……then brought home in the bed of a truck or some such device. Same’s true for ducks, geese, pheasant, quail, etc….most hunters will bring em home and hang em for a couple of days prior to guttin’ and pluckin’ em…. helps to age the meat some and also makes em easier to dress out…. But with that said, I gotta ALSO say this….I’ve eaten wild game for some 35 years now, on at least 6 occassions a year (not counting the jerky and salame!!) and have NEVER gotten a case of gastrointestinal distention, much less any more disastrous effect from it, aside from gettin’ stuffed like a pig and not knowing when to say ENOUGH!!!  (BTW, Wild Pig is great too!!!) Now to the rest of you…sorry to set y’all to droolin’ in the middle of the day…..just wasn’t a prudent thing to do, I mean someday I KNOW all a y’all will return the favor =)   Especially those of you who have access to CRAWFISH!!!!   Oh yeah….neighbor has a pair of bucks down at the butcher shop as we speak……hee hee hee…. Larry #:)#

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[pared] Now to the rest of you…sorry to set y’all to droolin’ in the middle of the day…..just wasn’t a prudent thing to do, I mean someday I KNOW all a y’all will return the favor =)   Especially those of you who have access to CRAWFISH!!!!   Oh yeah….neighbor has a pair of bucks down at the butcher shop as we speak……hee hee hee….

Geezus Christmas! Between you and Wolfie (and even "Oyster Joe" ;^) I’m dying here! Show some mercy for someone who had to deal with airline food today! /daytripper (rummaging through the ‘fridge…)

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rare, but we’ve all seen the "news magazine" horror stories about

(contamination, etc) wondering.   Nutritional values aside, is there a similar risk of e-coli or parasitic infection from eating game cooked rare?   Just wondering.

Joe, Don’t know how accurate this info is (wouldn’t want anyone getting sick) but during one of the recent e. coli outbreaks, I was reading some "warning" info in the paper. Author seemed to think the problem with rare meat (red meat, not poultry, which has its own caveats) occurs primarily with ground meat as opposed to "cut" meat like steaks, roasts, etc. The advice was based on the idea that bacteria grow on the surface of the meat and are killed by heat, so the "cut" meat can be cooked rare as long as the outside was cooked well. Ground meat becomes a problem as you shape it into patties or whatever because what was once on the surface could be mixed into the interior and therefore you should cook to much greater degree of "doneness" to ensure you got the bugs. Your local ag extension office probably has a nutritionist that can put this to rest. If not, let me know and I’ll check–my brother-in-law is an extension agent and I’m sure has some info available. Anyway, the newspaper article makes sense on the surface, but I’d like to hear other opinions… Cheers, Rick

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If it makes you all feel better, I caught a 12 inch smallmouth bass today. First cast too! Man are they tasty! ……Well, time for supper!

: [pared] : : Now to the rest of you…sorry to set y’all to droolin’ in the middle of : the day…..just wasn’t a prudent thing to do, I mean someday I KNOW all : a y’all will return the favor =)   Especially those of you who have : access to CRAWFISH!!!!   Oh yeah….neighbor has a pair of bucks down at : the butcher shop as we speak……hee hee hee…. : Geezus Christmas! Between you and Wolfie (and even "Oyster Joe" ;^) : I’m dying here! : Show some mercy for someone who had to deal with airline food today! : /daytripper (rummaging through the ‘fridge…) — I’m a Canadian eh!                                              Steve. The FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking is at: http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal The metalworking drop box  is at           http://www.metalworking.com                                     or     http://208.213.200.132 Visit my website at: http://www.victoria.tc.ca/~ud233/homepage.htm

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From a river or lake……? do you think it was big enough to have spawned it’s first time….?john

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<good analysis snipped I have thought about this issue long and hard for a long time.  Like Larry, I’ve eaten a lot of game over the years and have never suffered any ill effects from lightly cooked meat.  In fact, I eat venison or some sort of game bird about once a week. Ground meat is obviously more dangerous for the reasons mentioned, i.e. any surface contamination is thoroughly mixed into the center of the mass where the bacteria cannot be killed except by thorough cooking.  But I believe that the problem is exacerbated by the way commercially packaged meat is handled.  The game I eat is processed at home in very small masses.  A couple of birds at a time or a single deer.  Compare this with the beef you just bought at the grocery store.  This package of meat just went down the same line as some hundreds or thousands of pounds of meat processed in the same day.  Any bacterial contamination has all day to grow and multiply.  Add to this the fact that sanitation between days may be less than perfect and you have a situation in which the proliferation of E. choli, Salmonella or other bacteria is virtually assured.  Obviously, contamination can be minimized by scrupulously cleaning all work surfaces but we all know how easy it is for someone to get a little bit careless, especially some underpaid meat cutter bored to distraction by a mindless routine job. In short, it seems to me that, counterintuitively, game processed and packaged at home is likely to be safer than commercially packed meat because it isn’t dragged through the same slime as tons of other meat. Bon Apetit!

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From a lake. There are no smallmouth bass in rivers around here. At 12 inches they have spawned many times!

: From a river or lake……? : do you think it was big enough to have spawned it’s first time….?john — I’m a Canadian eh!                                              Steve. The FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking is at: http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal The metalworking drop box  is at           http://www.metalworking.com                                     or     http://208.213.200.132 Visit my website at: http://www.victoria.tc.ca/~ud233/homepage.htm

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snip< Bon Apetit!

Thanks Rick, Larry, Dave, & Wolfgang.   My curiosity, if not my appetite, is satisfied. I think I’ll have some sushi tonight. Joe F. "I always eat my oysters fried. That way I know my oyster’s died."     ….Roy Blount, Jr.

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Hello: My second posting ever…but I could use some suggestions. Am trying to tie the Henry’s Fork hopper……bundled elk or deer hair, extended body, etc. I have a little tourble with purportions but that’ll take time I guess.  But most especially, when reversing the elk hair for the body it seems to break and make a rough tail on the body…which is not what I bought…and don’t want to, anymore! I’ve got the books but need some experience…..’hints & kinks’, etc. Thanks for everything you folks post….I appreciate you! Buff

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I would give it up.  The best hopper imitation I have used, is the old trusty Letort Hopper.  I’ve caught lots of big, streamwise brown trout on that fly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: My second posting ever…but I could use some suggestions. Am trying to tie the Henry’s Fork hopper……bundled elk or deer hair, extended body, etc. I have a little tourble with purportions but that’ll take time I guess. But most especially, when reversing the elk hair for the body it seems to break and make a rough tail on the body…which is not what I bought…and don’t want to, anymore! I’ve got the books but need some experience…..’hints & kinks’, etc. Thanks for everything you folks post….I appreciate you! Buff

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My first two guesses are: 1) You’re using TOO MUCH hair     try using less first 2) You’re using the wrong hair or old hair     if it’s from the wrong part of the elk or it’s old, it’ll break when you bend/fold it Larry #:)#

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My first two guesses are: 1) You’re using TOO MUCH hair    try using less first 2) You’re using the wrong hair or old hair    if it’s from the wrong part of the elk or it’s old, it’ll break when you bend/fold it Larry #:)#

I agree with Larry on #2.  Also might be the wrong thread.  If the thread is too small it will cut through the hair as well. Warren

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My first two guesses are: 1) You’re using TOO MUCH hair    try using less first 2) You’re using the wrong hair or old hair    if it’s from the wrong part of the elk or it’s old, it’ll break when you bend/fold it Larry #:)# I agree with Larry on #2.  Also might be the wrong thread.  If the thread is too small it will cut through the hair as well. Warren

_______  Warren?  Good point.  Larry Madina also has the perfect suggestion but he didn’t say what area on an Elk is best.  Let’s look at the Wapiti or deer family of different animals. 1) There are many different ways to tie Deer Hair style Caddis patterns.  Many. 2) The hair on herbivores (from the ground, up) on the legs or shins, it is thinnest and smallest in diameter.  Also around the face and/or mask area. 3) The largest diameter hair is around the belly.  The belly is the boiler room and contains a lot of blood and needs to be kept warm because it also is the area that has the largest surface area on herbivores that must survive in freezing outdoor temperatures.  This hair is also the thickest and has large, hollow hairs.  Air inside these belly hairs is a dramatic insulator against cold.  The hair also contains a lot of underdubbing/fur/matting/etc. that is a ‘blanket’ against wind.  It is what keeps wind from getting THRU the hair and against the skin/hide.  It is an interesting study in nature’s engineering. The hollowness of Elk hair, when you spin certain patterns such as muddler heads, when you bear down with the tying thread is what makes it explode or open up.  This ‘kinking’ is nothing more then a way to make the hair do what you want it to do.  Shin hairs do not flair out like the hollower hairs around the belly of elk and/or deer. The hair on the back of herbivores is also thin in diameter and not as thick.  Why?  I cannot but venture a guess.  Its not necessary because the body heat inside happens to keep the roof dry, sort of speaking. This is also a good area or source for selecting Elk hair. 4)  When one is in a fly shop, you have to know what you’re looking at with each package which has but a small piece of and entire Elk inside it.  You need to know what is leg hair, what is belly hair, what is neck hair, what is facial hair, what is back hair, what is flank hair, etc. And so it goes. Elk Hair patterns seldom use large diameter Elk Hair.  I usually use the back and most often leg hair.  The Caddis wing only needs to flair just a little.  It is not necessary to fold it back after tying it in at the head/forward.  These are not hollow hairs and when Ginked, its enough to float a caddis that has no hollow Elk or Deer Hair.  I tie a great many of my Caddis Patterns with Mule Deer because I happen to like the black and coloration of Mule Deer above all things regarding ‘Caddis’. However; Elk Hair comes in colors and shadings other then blonde.   So when fly tiers are talking HOW TO tie any pattern, the industry at large should start stating WHAT part of an Elk/Deer they are using. This is vital information but somehow, everyone seems to not think its important.  I, on the other hand think it is vital, if anyone is to tie a fly that has ‘the proper signature’ of that offered by its author. To Larry Madina, who I think is an above average fly tier, I hope you can agree that this information is proper regarding flies tied with the hairs from herbivores.  That being more specific is indeed, rather important. Hope this helps Warren the cause of tying really great Caddis Patterns. Lets face it. Throughout most trout rivers and streams, its really "The Caddis" that is king. We can discuss it more over at the camp site some evening.  Hours between 1700 PDT and 2000 EST.   Gink Keeps It Up — Mr. G.   http://www.gink.com/chat   "Flyfisherman’s Camp Fires Burning" Fly Fishing’s Talking Camp Site  

Question:

Chapter IX

Question:

Hi – I’m looking for an inexpensive 3 wt rod for occasional use for panfish and trout small enough to not need my normal 5 wt. rod. Cabela’s has a Greenwood combo, with rod, reel and line for under $100. Granted, at that price I’m not expecting tremendous quality, but price is a limiting factor right now, and I’ve never heard much about Cabela’s rods. Anyone ever cast or have any experience with this rod? Get the Three Forks combo. It’s even cheaper, and it’s a fabulous value. —

I agree wholeheartedly!  I got this combo in July and I’m very pleased with it. Bill  (:=[ ]  open wide something bogus to avoid spam)

– Bill D.  (:=[ ]  open wide

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Years of being a gear slave has taught me that some very nice rods can hide in the strangest places.  A buddy got a drugstore rod for $50 that is actually a lot of fun.  Generally, though, you get what you pay for, one way or the other.  Warranties, for instance.  Spend $125 or so and go St Croix, Reddington Redd Start  or some others and get a lifetime replacement warranty.  I don’t know about Cabella’s but for a $50 rod it would be surprising.  Also: just because it is a 3-wt rod, made of Graphite XXII or whatever, doesn’t mean it was well-designed or casts worth a poop.  Good engineering really does tell. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi – I’m looking for an inexpensive 3 wt rod for occasional use for panfish and trout small enough to not need my normal 5 wt. rod. Cabela’s has a Greenwood combo, with rod, reel and line for under $100. Granted, at that price I’m not expecting tremendous quality, but price is a limiting factor right now, and I’ve never heard much about Cabela’s rods. Anyone ever cast or have any experience with this rod? TIA, Sam

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Years of being a gear slave has taught me that some very nice rods can hide in the strangest places.  A buddy got a drugstore rod for $50 that is actually a lot of fun.  Generally, though, you get what you pay for, one way or the other.  Warranties, for instance.  Spend $125 or so and go St Croix, Reddington Redd Start  or some others and get a lifetime replacement warranty.  I don’t know about Cabella’s but for a $50 rod it would be surprising.  Also: just because it is a 3-wt rod, made of Graphite XXII or whatever, doesn’t mean it was well-designed or casts worth a poop.  Good engineering really does tell. Hi – I’m looking for an inexpensive 3 wt rod for occasional use for panfish and trout small enough to not need my normal 5 wt. rod. Cabela’s has a Greenwood combo, with rod, reel and line for under $100. Granted, at that price I’m not expecting tremendous quality, but price is a limiting factor right now, and I’ve never heard much about Cabela’s rods. Anyone ever cast or have any experience with this rod? TIA, Sam

    I have a Cabelas 3 forks 3wt 3piece combo (rod,reel,line, and leader) costs on sale $50.00. the reel is a bit large being for a 5 to 7 wt. and the line supplied could be better. I’ve had it to NC for trout twice, use it a good bit for panfish and small bass here and it has never let me down. Believe me a big crappie or 14" large mouth on a three weight is a hoot. When it comes to someone who needs to watch the bucks but wants to get into fly fishing for panfish and smallish trout I always recommend this combo. The alternative is the loss of another fly fisherman. By the way I made a tube for it out of a window blind cardboard tube and is a constant compannion.                                                            John Popp                                                          in Sanford Fl.

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Hi – I’m looking for an inexpensive 3 wt rod for occasional use for panfish and trout small enough to not need my normal 5 wt. rod. Cabela’s has a Greenwood combo, with rod, reel and line for under $100. Granted, at that price I’m not expecting tremendous quality, but price is a limiting factor right now, and I’ve never heard much about Cabela’s rods. Anyone ever cast or have any experience with this rod? TIA, Sam

Response:

Hi – I’m looking for an inexpensive 3 wt rod for occasional use for panfish and trout small enough to not need my normal 5 wt. rod. Cabela’s has a Greenwood combo, with rod, reel and line for under $100. Granted, at that price I’m not expecting tremendous quality, but price is a limiting factor right now, and I’ve never heard much about Cabela’s rods. Anyone ever cast or have any experience with this rod?

Get the Three Forks combo. It’s even cheaper, and it’s a fabulous value. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Hi, I’d agree.  My buddy has the 7′6" 3 forks combo and really likes the rod.  I think its around $50 for rod, reel, backing, line, and a leader.  He basically threw away the reel, line, backing, and leader (which are of pretty poor quality… but what do you expect?) and ended up with just a $50 rod, but really likes it. Good luck. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Get the Three Forks combo. It’s even cheaper, and it’s a fabulous value. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Hi – I’m looking for an inexpensive 3 wt rod for occasional use for panfish and trout small enough to not need my normal 5 wt. rod. Cabela’s has a Greenwood combo, with rod, reel and line for under $100. Granted, at that price I’m not expecting tremendous quality, but price is a limiting factor right now, and I’ve never heard much about Cabela’s rods. Anyone ever cast or have any experience with this rod? TIA, Sam

  I have a cabelas 3wt 6′6". Whole shebang (line reel rod) is now on designed for including some right nice sized rainbows (up to but not yet inclusive of 4lbs) 3 hand size (10" long) panfish and a couple of bass over 11".A real blast on these size fish. It’s the three forks combo model 763, order #tx-31-1504-763. I can tell you it is a great rod within it’s limits, the reel is a 567 so a bit large but is extremely light (graphite). I don’t think you can beat it for bang/buck buying.                                                     John Popp                                                   in Sanford Fl.

Response:

Thanks to everyone for the replies. It sounds unanimous – Three Forks it is! And for even less money than I had intended to spend… Sam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi – I’m looking for an inexpensive 3 wt rod for occasional use for panfish and trout small enough to not need my normal 5 wt. rod. Cabela’s has a Greenwood combo, with rod, reel and line for under $100. Granted, at that price I’m not expecting tremendous quality, but price is a limiting factor right now, and I’ve never heard much about Cabela’s rods. Anyone ever cast or have any experience with this rod? TIA, Sam  I have a cabelas 3wt 6′6". Whole shebang (line reel rod) is now on designed for including some right nice sized rainbows (up to but not yet inclusive of 4lbs) 3 hand size (10" long) panfish and a couple of bass over 11".A real blast on these size fish. It’s the three forks combo model 763, order #tx-31-1504-763. I can tell you it is a great rod within it’s limits, the reel is a 567 so a bit large but is extremely light (graphite). I don’t think you can beat it for bang/buck buying.                                                    John Popp                                                  in Sanford Fl.

Response:

Question:

Any thoughts on the best of the intermediate casting videos?  I need to debug my casting and would like to try this before investing in an instructor.  mike

You’d be surprised what you local libray might have; and you might be able to put a hold on one that’s not in, or order it from another library.    I’ve checked out a number of them over the years.   Some fly fishing shops also rent them out. Before I teach someone how to fly fish, or even to cast, I always insist they watch the videos, first. Max http://www.inetarena.com/~mwi

Response:

Any thoughts on the best of the intermediate casting videos?  I need to debug my casting and would like to try this before investing in an instructor.  mike

Response:

There are a number of good casting videos.  Some of our favorites are:  "Joan Wulff’s Dynamics of Fly Casting", which is still fairly new on the market.  It covers "from solid basics to advanced techniques." $24.95 And… "Fly Casting with Lefty Kreh" ($29.95) and "All New Fly Casting Techniques", also Lefty Kreh ($19.95) Both Joan Wulff and Lefty Kreh are renouned for their casting ability. I couldn’t give you a clue on how to choose one over the other, as they are all excellent–but different. If you don’t mind spending the $, get Joan’s and one of Lefty’s.  It would be worth it. Lauren Hart, Brazos FlyFishers  http://www.brazosflyfishers.com Check out our Spring Specials posted on our website!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any thoughts on the best of the intermediate casting videos?  I need to debug my casting and would like to try this before investing in an instructor.  mike

Response:

Question:

–snip– in my Vette.  

–snip– I drive an SUV just to prove that my penis extension is larger than yours. don’t it just piss ya off. hahahahaha |Bill and Dawn ‘94 Ford Bronco |               ‘85 Honda Magna V30       |               ‘72 Olds Cutlass Supreme | |Sure it’s an overgrown stationwagon. What’s your point? |   |Email address changed due to growing Auto-SPAM.

Response:

Sure, a 12 year old subaru = will get you to any ski area or through the worst weather Buffalo = has to offer, but it won’t make your neighbours go ‘oooh’.

Not this neighbor.  Try  

Question:

Taxonomy of salmon is still messy, but the general agreement is as follows: Oncorhynchus: Pacific salmon = chum, chinook, pink, coho, sockey(kokanee),                                and masu (Asia).               Trout = rainbow (steelhead), cutthroat, golden.               Masu salmon (cherry salmon, or yamame) is placed into               between North America Pacific salmon and trout in phylogeny.

Do you happen to know the specific name of the cherry salmon, Naohisa? Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. NK Where do grayling fit in? Mike

They belong to the same family as salmon and chars, but the genus name is Thymallus for NA fish.  I don’t know anything about he European grayling. Another question: Does anyone happen to know what an inconnu is? Dave

Response:

Thanks Kat, I realized shortly after making that quick post I was in error.  Same family, wrong genus! -Burton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where do grayling fit in?   Char! -burton No, grayling are grayling (genus Thymallus), not char (genus Salvelinus). However, both grayling and char are members of the family Salmonidae. and the inconnu is a big, mean whitefish (Stenodus leucicthys). Do check backwards in your threading if you can, because George Gehrke posted rather a motherlode of info about the inconnu. — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank, ichthyophile. Toronto, Ontario, Canada. see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html

Response:

Where do grayling fit in?   Char! -burton

No, grayling are grayling (genus Thymallus), not char (genus Salvelinus). However, both grayling and char are members of the family Salmonidae. and the inconnu is a big, mean whitefish (Stenodus leucicthys). Do check backwards in your threading if you can, because George Gehrke posted rather a motherlode of info about the inconnu. — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank, ichthyophile. Toronto, Ontario, Canada. see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html

Response:

The inconnu is NOT a minnow. — Gary

Response:

: The inconnu is NOT a minnow. This is indeed true. The inconnu (known as "shee" in much of Alaska, and "coney" in some areas) is a whitefish, and hence a salmonid. They do grow much larger than other whitefish species – a probable upper limit is around 80 lbs – and forage fish make up the major part of their diet. Their jaws are not underslung – in fact, the mouth does resemble that of a tarpon. It’s pretty safe to say that an inconnu bears as much resemblance to other *whitefish* as a tarpon bears to other *herring*. They are found throughout the far north, particularly in the Yukon and Mackenzie drainages. The fish spend some part of their lives in salt water, though what portion is unclear for some watersheds. I have seen native fishermen unloading netted inconnu at Ft. Resolution, NWT, which is at the mouth of the Slave River. This is about 1250 miles from salt water, so it is possible that these fish spend much, perhaps even all, of their time in Great Slave Lake. On the other hand, a fish caught well down in the Mackenzie Delta, or in some coastal river in Alaska, is probably in and out of the saltwater on a week by week basis. As with all northern fish, growth is slow and the fish live a long time. In Great Slave Lake, for example, it takes 7-10 years to produce a spawning sized lake trout (17-20 inches, 2-3 lbs) and the very large fish are figured at 1 – 1.5 years per pound. Fish having access to saltwater, including lake trout, arctic char, and (presumably) inconnu, will grow considerably faster. George’s projection that a 50# inconnu might be 150 years old is stretching it a bit, but 30-40 is indeed possible. Great care must therefore be taken when deciding to keep *any* northern fish – you can do a lot of damage in a short time. 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (250) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (250) 368-9341

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [some deleted just for the hell of it...] T-bone…. in a taxonomic class all his own. "Giganticus Dicki Brainius Coloradoensis" You got the order family ralph, but messed up on the genus and species. TimW Oh get your hand out of your pants!

You tellin’ me I can’t fly fish at work ? TimW

Response:

Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. Where do grayling fit in?

  Char! -burton

Response:

Where do grayling fit in?

Same family as (gasp!) mountain whitefish Charlie Quinton

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [some deleted just for the hell of it...] T-bone…. in a taxonomic class all his own. "Giganticus Dicki Brainius Coloradoensis" You got the order family ralph, but messed up on the genus and species. TimW Oh get your hand out of your pants! You tellin’ me I can’t fly fish at work ? TimW

Well if it gives you a thrill… but be carefull some lithe young thing doesn’t come by to catch and kill your trouser trout!

Response:

Philip Jones of the U.K. asks if we have grayling over here. Yes, but our Arctic grayling (Thymallus arctics) is not the same as the European grayling (T. thymallus). They’re pretty much alike, except that  our grayling has a larger, and often more colorful dorsal fin, and those I’ve caught have been generally smaller than the ones I’ve caught in Europe, especially in Sweden, Croatia, and Slovenia.         Mike Uetz’s buddies must be fishing in the vicinity of Churchill, Manitoba, because that’s about the only place you should find both grayling and searun brook trout (char). Grayling waters are all west of Hudson Bay. In the U.S., Canada has scads of ‘em, but in the Lower 48 we have only a relict population in western Montana. Michigan used to have them (and even has a town named Grayling), but they were extirpated by habitat destruction, pollution, and possibly overfishing.         My Montana grayling aficionados fish for them with size 28 Trico patterns, but in Alaska, they’ll attack almost anything, even the big spoons and Mepps spinners favored by salmon, pike, and muskie fishermen. In Europe, I have found that grayling will take a wide variety of flies, from Red Tags to hairwing salmon flies.         An odd thing: From time to time, especially in Sweden, I’ve had European grayling strike and miss repeatedly. At other times, they are as likely as Arctic grayling to nail a flie on the first strike. In Croatia and Slovenia, I found them to be extremely picky at times in Slovenia and very, very choosy in Croatia. — Gary Soucie / Writer / Editor / Editorial Consultant Traveling With Fly Rod and Reel * Home Waters: A Fly-Fishing Anthology * Soucie’s Field Guide of Fishing Facts *  Hook, Line, and Sinker: The Complete Angler’s Guide to Terminal Tackle

Response:

Do you have grayling in N America?  They are just now coming into their own in the UK – along with the first frosts.  They are a very welcome Winter attraction whilst the salmon and trout spawn. It is said that the grayling, Thymallus Thymallus, smells of thyme and acquired the name because of this.  I have never been able to detect the smell of thyme.  Cucumber, possibly.  They are lovely fish!  Sometimes easy to catch, sometimes impossible – amazing how they always select the Red Tag from a cast of three flies! — Phil Jones

We have them but you pretty much need to go to the borreal forest area (aka a long way from where I live) to get at them.  Most guys I know have fished for them on fly in trips as a change of pace from lake trout or northern sea run brook trout. Mike

Response:

Where do grayling fit in?

They are Thymallus which is a different genus from above ones.  In fact, they are in different sub-family, Thymallinae.  Salmon, trout, and char are in sub-family Salmoninae. Family Salmonidae has three subfamily, Salmoninae, Thymallinae, and Coregoninae (whitefishes). NK

Do you have grayling in N America?  They are just now coming into their own in the UK – along with the first frosts.  They are a very welcome Winter attraction whilst the salmon and trout spawn. It is said that the grayling, Thymallus Thymallus, smells of thyme and acquired the name because of this.  I have never been able to detect the smell of thyme.  Cucumber, possibly.  They are lovely fish!  Sometimes easy to catch, sometimes impossible – amazing how they always select the Red Tag from a cast of three flies! — Phil Jones

Response:

Taxonomy of salmon is still messy, but the general agreement is as follows: Oncorhynchus: Pacific salmon = chum, chinook, pink, coho, sockey(kokanee),                                and masu (Asia).               Trout = rainbow (steelhead), cutthroat, golden.               Masu salmon (cherry salmon, or yamame) is placed into               between North America Pacific salmon and trout in phylogeny. Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. NK

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taxonomy of salmon is still messy, but the general agreement is as follows: Oncorhynchus: Pacific salmon = chum, chinook, pink, coho, sockey(kokanee),                                and masu (Asia).               Trout = rainbow (steelhead), cutthroat, golden.               Masu salmon (cherry salmon, or yamame) is placed into               between North America Pacific salmon and trout in phylogeny. Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout.

Cunnilingus humongous:  Trouser Trout,  Pants Python,  Levi Lizard TimW

Response:

[some deleted just for the hell of it...] T-bone…. in a taxonomic class all his own. "Giganticus Dicki Brainius Coloradoensis" You got the order family ralph, but messed up on the genus and species. TimW

Oh get your hand out of your pants!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taxonomy of salmon is still messy, but the general agreement is as follows: Oncorhynchus: Pacific salmon = chum, chinook, pink, coho, sockey(kokanee),                                and masu (Asia).               Trout = rainbow (steelhead), cutthroat, golden.               Masu salmon (cherry salmon, or yamame) is placed into               between North America Pacific salmon and trout in phylogeny. Do you happen to know the specific name of the cherry salmon, Naohisa? Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. NK Where do grayling fit in? Mike They belong to the same family as salmon and chars, but the genus name is Thymallus for NA fish.  I don’t know anything about he European grayling. Another question: Does anyone happen to know what an inconnu is? Dave

No – don’t know about inconnu (in fact, isn’t that what inconnu means – unknown?) but I know about S Salar, S Trutta and T Thymallus in the UK. Each of them is great.  Would you like me to tell you about them? — Phil Jones Turnpike evaluation. For information, see http://www.turnpike.com/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Another question: Does anyone happen to know what an inconnu is? The inconnu, Stenodus leucichthys, is a large, predatory whitefish which lives in the Far North. It has a basic salmonlike shape, with large scales, a deeply forked tail, and a large head with a very large mouth. It migrates into rivers in June and July and spawns in the fall. It ages slowly and can weigh over 50 lbs. It is the only predatory member of the whitefish tribe found in North America. Its common name is French for "unknown". — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank, ichthyophile. Toronto, Ontario, Canada. see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html

Tarpon of the North"  It spends most of its feeding year in the brackish waters of bays where fresh water and salt flats mix.  The Inconnu is by far, one of the largest minnow species known to man.  Its mating cycle is not only buried in mystery, until recently as fifteen years ago when an expedition I was on made a major study of them.  Basically, it goes like this. The big females come up river such as the Kobuck River just above the Artic Circle where I fished for them with Jim Teeney, in early fall. The moon phase has to be just right.  The tidal cycle has to be just right, the temperatures have to be just right, the river sandy bottom has to be just right, and many things we yet don’t know . . . has to be just right for spawning to take place. Just finding these ‘Fish of Mystery’ was the hardest thing as they slip into long ridges of sand that run with the river but cross-wise, look like the letter ‘m’ in which at the top of the ‘m’ these fish lay in long rows in the sand valleys.  They simply, wait.  For weeks, they will wait and when the magnetic fields, the moon, the temperature, including all the wizardry that mother nature can throw at you . . . the females, burgering with roe/eggs that are rich, very small, and white hinging on white/yellow they come to the surface . . . as if trying to swim to the moon.  The females backs will come to the surface and they will start releasing eggs.  Millions of them and along with them the males eject sperm in copious amounts to mix with the now drifting eggs.  The timing has to be absolutely perfect. Now fertilized, these eggs . . . which are very sticky, start to sink down and along these long trenches of sand and they settle to the bottom.  But that isn’t the final act. The little eggs start to roll along the sand and it sticks to the eggs and sure enough, they become camoflauged and other preditory fish cannot find them anymore because these very small eggs have no smell, they become invisable, and they become somewhat buried in the sand trenches. Life, begins to take form.  It is soon enough, left alone to fend for themselves for the Tarpon of the North leave the young behind to return to the call of the salt that is in their blood.  They race for the sea! Never to return again until next fall. The food fair of the Inconnu is probably the finest of all fish that God ever put in water.  It is twice as good as walleye and the roe makes White Sturgeon Roe seem ridiculas as table fair. Inconnu is by far the richest, most tastefully wonderful roe in the world.  You literally slice it like you would cross-ways a loin.  You fry it in butter, a touch of garlic if you like and a sprinkle of parsley and lace with a smile of fine pepper and sea-salt.  You may wish to try frying in a skillet braized with a slice of bacon.  No more is needed, if anything. Your mind, will literally scream in estacy. The Shee Fish (another name for this wonderful game fish in which I set the IGFA first world record) grows slowly.  Its age at fifty pounds is well over a hundred and fifty years old.  It would be nothing for a ten pounder to be thirty five years old . . . and as table fare, against age, killing a Shee Fish is really a rather mindless thing to do these days as more and more anglers discover them.  It would take a real man to realease a large Shee Fish.  In those days, we had to keep a rare damaged fish because there where those in the party that used treble hooks (guides) who were not all fly fishermen and the Indians up around the Kobuck River don’t give a damned about anything except government dollars and if it moves, kill it or feed it to the dogs.  There is no shame in Alaska . . . yet. The Shee-Fish will give you exactly three excellent jumps that are as Tarpon-like as you could hope for and five jumps is somewhat rare but possible.  It is an exciting fish to hunt and is not a fish for every body to enjoy.  Gut-em and Eat-em is possible just once on a little one as they will average five or six pounds.  But without exception, and Inconnu that exceeds ten pounds should be released. I hope this helps in your interest in one of the greatest mysteries of the late 20th Century, until the last dozen or so years. If you go in pursuit of the Inconnu . . . go with a kind and understanding heart.  You will catch fish as old as yourself, most likely and certainly older than your children.  Life, at this pace is not food for life. Mr. G.

Response:

Cherry salmon = Oncorhynchus masu (in older taxonomies also listed as O. rhodurus and O. biwa)         To K’s good answer on inconnu, all I will add is that some anglers refer to it as sheefish, and it’s also sometimes called conny or Eskimo tarpon. — Gary Soucie / Writer / Editor / Editorial Consultant Traveling With Fly Rod and Reel * Home Waters: A Fly-Fishing Anthology * Soucie’s Field Guide of Fishing Facts *  Hook, Line, and Sinker: The Complete Angler’s Guide to Terminal Tackle

Response:

Do you happen to know the specific name of the cherry salmon, Naohisa?

You mean thier scientific name?  It is Oncorhynchus masou. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. NK Where do grayling fit in? Mike They belong to the same family as salmon and chars, but the genus name is Thymallus for NA fish.  I don’t know anything about he European grayling.

Same.  Europian grayling is Thymallus thymallus. Another question: Does anyone happen to know what an inconnu is? Dave

? Naohisa

Response:

Another question: Does anyone happen to know what an inconnu is?

The inconnu, Stenodus leucichthys, is a large, predatory whitefish   which lives in the Far North. It has a basic salmonlike shape, with large scales, a deeply forked tail, and a large head with a very large mouth. It migrates into rivers in June and July and spawns in the fall. It ages slowly and can weigh over 50 lbs. It is the only predatory member of the whitefish tribe found in North America. Its common name is French for "unknown". — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank, ichthyophile. Toronto, Ontario, Canada. see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taxonomy of salmon is still messy, but the general agreement is as follows: Oncorhynchus: Pacific salmon = chum, chinook, pink, coho, sockey(kokanee),                                and masu (Asia).               Trout = rainbow (steelhead), cutthroat, golden.               Masu salmon (cherry salmon, or yamame) is placed into               between North America Pacific salmon and trout in phylogeny. Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. Cunnilingus humongous:  Trouser Trout,  Pants Python,  Levi Lizard TimW

T-bone…. in a taxonomic class all his own. "Giganticus Dicki Brainius Coloradoensis"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taxonomy of salmon is still messy, but the general agreement is as follows: Oncorhynchus: Pacific salmon = chum, chinook, pink, coho, sockey(kokanee),                                and masu (Asia).               Trout = rainbow (steelhead), cutthroat, golden.               Masu salmon (cherry salmon, or yamame) is placed into               between North America Pacific salmon and trout in phylogeny. Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. NK Where do grayling fit in? Mike

They are Thymallus which is a different genus from above ones.  In fact, they are in different sub-family, Thymallinae.  Salmon, trout, and char are in sub-family Salmoninae. Family Salmonidae has three subfamily, Salmoninae, Thymallinae, and Coregoninae (whitefishes). NK

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taxonomy of salmon is still messy, but the general agreement is as follows: Oncorhynchus: Pacific salmon = chum, chinook, pink, coho, sockey(kokanee),                                and masu (Asia).               Trout = rainbow (steelhead), cutthroat, golden.               Masu salmon (cherry salmon, or yamame) is placed into               between North America Pacific salmon and trout in phylogeny. Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. NK

Where do grayling fit in? Mike

Response:

Question:

Opinions that snaps are okay<

I’ve heard from two people now who really like those things. Perhaps it’s time I tried them again. Maybe my mind will change. Any other input would be appreciated. Thanx! JL 8-Wt Editor

Response:

Jim Stuart writes: On the other hand, tying on bugs in low light (hell, in any light) is getting harder as I approach geezerhood and I’m thinking about trying those little snaps that are made for flies.  Anyone had any experience with them? Yeah, I tried those some years back. I found them too big for trout flies, too small for bass flies, and too wimpy in general for the rough-and-tumble, cast-to-the-tangles fishing in my area. Besides, you’ve got to tie those on, too, and they’re just as hard as any small fly, and more difficult to handle if your hands are stiff.

$.02: Maybe the fish are less rugged here in MN. I’ve used those things for years, on flies, jigs and plugs. They come in 3 sizes, so yu do have to change sizes if you have only one spool. I keep a small one on my fly rod, a medium on my lighter spinning rod, and a big ‘un on my heavyweight rod. I’ve lost fish for a mess of reasons, but those clips are not among them. They also let the fly/lure be freer for action, like a loop knot. I don’t like them for worming, though; they can collect junk if fished real slow.         /   V  V  V  V  V  V  V  /      King’s Computer Management, Inc.        <   0  0  0  0  0  0  0  (o   1633 NE Hwy 10      VVV              Y                 612-784-8042 (voice)                      VVV Heddon Lucky 13 leopard: the lure doesn’t catch fish, fish catch the lure. Opinions? I’m married. I am not allowed to have opinions.

Response:

Jim Stuart writes: On the other hand, tying on bugs in low light (hell, in any light) is getting harder as I approach geezerhood and I’m thinking about trying those little snaps that are made for flies.  Anyone had any experience with them?

Yeah, I tried those some years back. I found them too big for trout flies, too small for bass flies, and too wimpy in general for the rough-and-tumble, cast-to-the-tangles fishing in my area. Besides, you’ve got to tie those on, too, and they’re just as hard as any small fly, and more difficult to handle if your hands are stiff. JL 8-Wt Editor

Response: