Question:

Dear Sir,  Do you realize they have Lithium and Prozac among many other medications that can help with this problem?  Please walk, err RUN to your closest Dr. of Psychiatry and get some help!  The twitch and voices in my head were removed, I’m sure your voices can be put down as well….:) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We would like anyone in ROFF who does not wish to receive posts to their  private e-mail address to notify us who they may be so we may make a log.   Everyone  is considered operational unless we are notified otherwise in the next ten days.  This is a legal notice.

Response:

Legal notice to George Gehrke: Go fuck yourself for 10 days and get back on your meds. Any emails from you to my address will be considered harassment, and will result in a shitstorm of incredible magnitude raining down upon you. Yours truly, Bob Smith

Response:

Two years ago, many on roff gave us the challenge and after two years, we were able to come up with a fly rod for under the challenged price.

You lying old sack of puss. Two years ago the challenge was to produce a production bamboo fly rod for $300. Not a fly rod KIT, a fly rod, a fishable upon receipt fly rod for $300. You didn’t do it. You failed. So now you think you can change what the challenge was to this new twist of producing a "roll your own" kit rod for $300 or less. You are such a fucking moron George. Do you really thing everybody here who’s had to live with your crap for the last two years will buy this new story from you. God, you are a miserable excuse for a human being. KMA, Bob

Response:

Dear Sir,  Do you realize they have Lithium and Prozac among many other medications that can help with this problem?  Please walk, err RUN to your closest Dr. of Psychiatry and get some help!  The twitch and voices in my head were removed, I’m sure your voices can be put down as well….:)

What, you would deprive Mr. Gehrke of ALL human intercourse?  For shame sir! Wolfgang

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <More lunacy snipped I would seriously advise anybody even considering posting an e-mail to this person, for whatever reason, to be extremely careful.  There is no telling where your address might end up. The person is obviously unbalanced, and in need of treatment. While this is unfortunate, it will not save anybody involved from the possibly unfortunate consequences, and probable misery involved. Yes, exactly.  Why anyone would feel obliged to respond to what is essentially a threat is beyond me.  Best to just let it be.  If you receive spam as a result of your participation on ROFF, simply deal with it as you would any other spam, by contacting the ISP of the offending party. JR

or check the law.  washington state has pretty strict laws on unsolicited e-mail… don’t know the specifics, but if he spammed me via e-mail i might just have to look into it. chris

Response:

You lousy son-of-a-bitch. Unsolicited commercial e-mail of any kind will result in a complaint(s) to your ISP(s). It’s bad enough that I have to wade through your SPAM on ROFF.  It’s illegal and against all of the Usenet rules I’m aware of, both formal and informal. Now you want to start sending me SPAM directly? As the high and mighty judge of all things ethical and moral, you should know better than to try and pull some stunt like this one. How about this: You make a one-time SPAM posting to alert all interested ROFFians (there might even be three or four of them) that if they would like to recieve e-mails from you that they can go to your website and subscribe to your mailing list.  I’m sure that the response would be overwhelming. Legal Notice.  Ha!  What you are contemplating is definitely illegal.  You should fire your attorney, George, and so should your ISP if they truly believe that an illegal post to a public newsgroup constitutes any sort of ‘legal notice’. George, you need help.  Mental help, legal help, and then some.  Perhaps an in-patient program might suit you better than the current out-patient one that continues to allow you to embarrass yourself in front of God and everybody. Here’s my legal notice, Mr. Gehrke, DO NOT EVER SEND ME ANY COMMERCIAL E-MAIL. Tom G constantly amazed

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We would like anyone in ROFF who does not wish to receive posts to their  private e-mail address to notify us who they may be so we may make a log.   Everyone  is considered operational unless we are notified otherwise in the next ten days.  This is a legal notice. Our company and web site is available for any technical questions regarding fly fishing.  Our chat site will become active under a new provider who honors any commercial comments as long as they are posted in chat sites and/or talk groups like Roff.  This new change will prevent problems regarding fly fishing content and values that are posted in the best interests of the industry and individuals world wide who ARE interested in certain commercial aspects regarding FLYFISHING Finally, THIS COMPUTER is a business computer and every man, woman or child in the world may post to this E-Mail Address which may include questions, comments, orders, and requests.  This  open door policy for free speech includes everyone.  Anyone wishing to talk with us over an extended period of time may do so on http://www.gink.com/chat/index.html starting 7 PM evenings. Bad manners, name calling, or bad language will not tolerated at: http://www.gink.com/chat/index.html starting up again after a long absence for operations and plant construction and expansion. Anyone who has any questions should email us.  The new e-mail site is Please make a note of it. Thank you, COMMENTS TO GEORGE AT THIS EMAIL ADDRESS FROM NOW ON.

Response:

We would like anyone in ROFF who does not wish to receive posts to their  private e-mail address to notify us who they may be so we may make a log.   Everyone  is considered operational unless we are notified otherwise in the next ten days.  This is a legal notice.

I can’t f*&%#$% belive this bullshit. You want me to email you to tell you I’m not interested in your new line. I’ve got a better idea I’ll save this tread and send it to your ISP along with a couple of responces to other threads and let them deside. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Our company and web site is available for any technical questions regarding fly fishing.  Our chat site will become active under a new provider who honors any commercial comments as long as they are posted in chat sites and/or talk groups like Roff.  This new change will prevent problems regarding fly fishing content and values that are posted in the best interests of the industry and individuals world wide who ARE interested in certain commercial aspects regarding FLYFISHING Finally, THIS COMPUTER is a business computer and every man, woman or child in the world may post to this E-Mail Address which may include questions, comments, orders, and requests.  This  open door policy for free speech includes everyone.  Anyone wishing to talk with us over an extended period of time may do so on http://www.gink.com/chat/index.html starting 7 PM evenings. Bad manners, name calling, or bad language will not tolerated at: http://www.gink.com/chat/index.html starting up again after a long absence for operations and plant construction and expansion. Anyone who has any questions should email us.  The new e-mail site is Please make a note of it. Thank you, COMMENTS TO GEORGE AT THIS EMAIL ADDRESS FROM NOW ON.

Response:

You lousy son-of-a-bitch. …

Amazing how the Village Idiot manages to self-destruct every so often. Quite convenient really, it’ll be awhile before anyone has to explain to indignant newbies why the old fool is so despised on ROFF. Hey Zimbo, here’s another classic for ginkstinks.org. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Georgie,    Send nothing.  This is official notice.    Send nothing. Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George,    If I read this right, you’re claiming that you intend to SPAM us all in ten days if we don’t request that you not do that.  I believe that the insertion of "nospam" in my return address is sufficient notice that I don’t want any unsolicited email.  Others who use their address untampered are already accustomed to SPAM and probably want it.   If you do start a SPAM campaign, I’m sure you’ll incur further wrath here, and I suspect some might launch a SPAM campaign of their own.  I wouldn’t participate in that sort of thing. By no means will I be spamming you.  If I write you at your private e-mail address it will never have spam in it Charlie.  For you or anyone.  I don’t do that sort of thing.  I did it once by mistake and boy, never again.  What I’m saying is you’re welcome to always write me as long there is no spam involved either way, okay? No, I am not claiming that in ten days there will be spam from us.  Yet, what some regard as spam is not. Our new Provider says a special report as we posted which others think is spam in a news group, is NOT.  Neither do they consider commercial comments in normal conversation in chat sites spam.  Spam is when (as far as they are concerned) when one takes a mailing list and puts out a commercial message.   That IS spam and I don’t do that. Two years ago, many on roff gave us the challenge and after two years, we were able to come up with a fly rod for under the challenged price.  We have another surprise but I’m not going to post it here.  Roffians will  have to come to our chat site tommorow and ask about it. Anyhow Chuck, to get the kept promise to the thousands of people who have been waiting, our singular web site would not reach them all as once.  Since the problems and the huge sums spent by me are in part the responsibility and doings of ROFFIANS who egged and prodded and helped and who offered their undying support, the best way to communicate that singular report after two years of effort was to post it on ROFF where it belonged.  ROFF owes me at least THAT! So, what I’m asking you now is this.  We may write to each other e-mails but we agree not to spam.  I can handle that just fine.  I don’t spam on e-mails anyhow but then again, we answer a lot of questions regarding fly fishing and products with e-mail but only when requested. Fair enough Charlie? George Gehrke Get your FREE web-based e-mail and newsgroup access at:                http://MailAndNews.com Create a new mailbox, or access your existing IMAP4 or POP3 mailbox from anywhere with just a web browser.

Response:

<SNIP P.S.  Ordinarily, (until I know for sure) I would post this response to you via e-mail Charlie because it doesn’t belong here for public review.  To me, this should be a private conversation between two reasonable men.

No way you are ever going to have such a private conversation then?   What a pity. Perhaps you will be lucky and find a discussion partner as unreasonable as yourself?  A tall order of course, but doubtless you can do it. You can do everything, you said so yourself, so it must be true. ( Awed whispers from off) ( The Mighty and Unholy Gink bows low, seeming unsure of what he knows for sure, apparently hoping against hope that somebody will jump on his shoulders, and then slithers off on his own slime trail for another we). MC

Response:

Gehrke writes: Snipped redundant remarks:

(giant snip) George, you are insane.  You need help. Dave

Response:

Providers, such as the one we just hired, will allow a commercial post in news/talk groups …

Right up until the time they lose their first upstream feed. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

George, in which legal jurisdiction is your rather dubious looking legal notice enforceable? Certainly not mine, that’s for bloody sure.   You do realise this is a world-wide forum don’t you? If I see spam from you in ROFF again, I will (again) complain to your ISP. If I see spam from you in my mail box, I will complain to your ISP. Nice sales pitch from your new provider BTW, either they are a bigger bullshit artist than you are or they are severely deluded. Steve

Response:

<silliness snipped… All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy…

Response:

Our new Provider says a special report as we posted which others think is spam in a news group, is NOT.  Neither do they consider commercial comments in normal conversation in chat sites spam.  Spam is when (as far as they are concerned) when one takes a mailing list and puts out a commercial message.   That IS spam and I don’t do that.

Ask them if they know what a UDP is. — Charlie…

Response:

<nonsense snipped I would never stand on your shoulders, I am quite careful at avoiding crap on my shoes. Providers can not "allow" commercial posts to newsgroups, it does not lie within their power to do so. Try sending a few, and see what happens. Strange as it may seem, and in spite of your congenital idiocy, I assumed that you would have grasped this relatively simple concept by now.  How many providers have thrown you out?   Forgotten? Oh well, ask the next couple what they think, assuming you are a customer long enough of course. The day I need an explanation of Usenet ( or anything else for that matter), from you, I will shoot myself as being no longer a viable proposition for normal existence. I don

Question:

Now, that’s likely to increase interest in the swap.

not from me it won’t…. i sent that useless and futile grass stick down to my momma so she could stake some pole beans in her garden. she called me three days later and cussed me out but good after she donated it to the local homeless shelter for kindling. furthermore, i received a very ungracious e-mail from the third baptist church of jacksonville condemning me to satan for the lack of charity in my heart. all that aside, and accounted for, i, walt winter, hereby denounce and wish all sorts of evil becomings on george gherke for bedeviling me with this bullsh ….uhmmm…errr…. sorry, wrong number. waldo…. who…. caught two brookies, on the new, nc siberian whitewash, millenium day… yipeeeeeeeee! and… wishin all of ya’ll could have done the same…. <bseg….zimman

Response:

Hi Frank and all Count me in with a canary salmon fly. All the best in 2001! Paul MacDonald – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mystery of the missing mail solved! I had setup a FLYSWAP folder in both my OE mail client and my Yahoo web mail, it seems they all went to the web mail site and *that* FLYSWAP folder…they’re all there, every single one.  Following is an updated list, and if you don’t see your name on there, give me a holler.  Sorry for the confusion. OK would-be flyswappers, here’s the 2nd update for the 2nd Annual Great Herman Nijland…     to be announced Dave LaCourse….      Bottom Dweller Caddis Worm Bob Weinberger..       #16 Biot & CDC Caddis Peter Charles……         to be announced Dave Martell…….        Orange/Gold/Brown Clouser Deep Minnow/Crawdad Thom Adams…….        Tube body Callibaetis #14 Robert Mayrand        to be announced Dave Blackett            to be announced Alex Bromham           Iron Blue Dun

Response:

No Steve, but I’m still digging…damn thing’s gotta be here someplace! Frank (bamboozled) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mystery of the missing mail solved! Frank, did you receive an email from me wherein I offered to send you bamboo fly rods instead of flies on account of the fact that I don’t tie? –Steve (just checking

Response:

OK Peter, your down for a wet one. <g Frank (tired already gray swapemupmeister) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yikes!  I hope not Stan!  Things should slow down now that the initial rush is over (?)  Seems to me we had about 29 sign up for the last Great FlySwap then it settled down to about 24 I think.  We now have 24 (at last count) Frank (Already tired and gray swapmeister!) Church After you’ve got your breath back, mine’s a Cahill Wet. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at

http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

OK Paul, you’re down for a canary salmon fly. Frank Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi Frank and all Count me in with a canary salmon fly. All the best in 2001! Paul MacDonald Mystery of the missing mail solved! I had setup a FLYSWAP folder in both my OE mail client and my Yahoo web mail, it seems they all went to the web mail site and *that* FLYSWAP folder…they’re all there, every single one.  Following is an updated list, and if you don’t see your name on there, give me a holler.  Sorry for the confusion. OK would-be flyswappers, here’s the 2nd update for the 2nd Annual Great Herman Nijland…     to be announced Dave LaCourse….      Bottom Dweller Caddis Worm Bob Weinberger..       #16 Biot & CDC Caddis Peter Charles……         to be announced Dave Martell…….        Orange/Gold/Brown Clouser Deep Minnow/Crawdad Thom Adams…….        Tube body Callibaetis #14 Robert Mayrand        to be announced Dave Blackett            to be announced Alex Bromham           Iron Blue Dun

Response:

Where did you find someplace that would sell you a fishing license today?       Frank "calling out the rangers" Reid waldo…. who…. caught two brookies, on the new, nc siberian whitewash, millenium day… yipeeeeeeeee! and… wishin all of ya’ll could have done the same…. <bseg….zimman

Response:

Now, that’s likely to increase interest in the swap. not from me it won’t…. i sent that useless and futile grass stick down to my momma so she could stake some pole beans in her garden. she called me three days later and cussed me out but good after she donated it to the local homeless shelter for kindling. furthermore, i received a very ungracious e-mail from the third baptist church of jacksonville condemning me to satan for the lack of charity in my heart. all that aside, and accounted for, i, walt winter, hereby denounce and wish all sorts of evil becomings on george gherke for bedeviling me with this bullsh ….uhmmm…errr…. sorry, wrong number.

_____-  That’s alright Walter, you got it free anyhow.  I just wish you had returned it to me instead.  I could have given it to a youngster much more in need who could never afford a fine fly rod like that one is.  Try and think of others once in a while in the future, will you? When one doesn’t want a gift, it would be the gentlemanly thing to return it quietly and in the same vein that it was sent you.  In friendship and respect. Things like this always seem to elude you Walter.  I’m sorry to hear about it. Happy New Year anyhow. — (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mystery of the missing mail solved! I had setup a FLYSWAP folder in both my OE mail client and my Yahoo web mail, it seems they all went to the web mail site and *that* FLYSWAP folder…they’re all there, every single one.  Following is an updated list, and if you don’t see your name on there, give me a holler.  Sorry for the confusion. OK would-be flyswappers, here’s the 2nd update for the 2nd Annual Great Herman Nijland…     to be announced Dave LaCourse….      Bottom Dweller Caddis Worm Bob Weinberger..       #16 Biot & CDC Caddis Peter Charles……         to be announced Dave Martell…….        Orange/Gold/Brown Clouser Deep Minnow/Crawdad Thom Adams…….        Tube body Callibaetis #14 Robert Mayrand        to be announced Dave Blackett            to be announced Alex Bromham           Iron Blue Dun

Dear Frank: If you want, put me down for ONE new BLACKJACK Steelhead/Salmon Fly Streamer tied by me, and for ONE DRY FLY tied by George Harvey which is a collector’s item.  It’s value alone is $125 for one of these George Harvey dry flies. I will also send you some coin to help defray some of your postal costs.  How soon would you like to have these two flies Frank and are these flies enough for the exchange? Sincerely, George   — (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/products/gehrke_rods_3.html

Response:

Thanks for your generous offer George, but you only need to tie *one* pattern, multiplied by the number of tiers.  As things stand now, you would need to tie 28 copies of your Blackjack fly.  Also, you only need to include a return address and postage to cover your submission.  The flies must be in to me by 28 Feb.  I must leave for Florida this morning until Saturday so will be unavailable for messages until then. Thanks, Frank – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Frank: If you want, put me down for ONE new BLACKJACK Steelhead/Salmon Fly Streamer tied by me, and for ONE DRY FLY tied by George Harvey which is a collector’s item.  It’s value alone is $125 for one of these George Harvey dry flies. I will also send you some coin to help defray some of your postal costs.  How soon would you like to have these two flies Frank and are these flies enough for the exchange? Sincerely, George — (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/products/gehrke_rods_3.html

Response:

Duty calls and I must leave for Tampa, FL this morning, so any questions, comments or criticisms concerning the Great FlySwap will go unanswered until this coming Saturday. And especially, the *criticisms* will go unanswered! Frank (Ye Olde Gray Swapmeister) Church …and soon to be tired, I expect…

Response:

…..quietly and in the same vein……

Ahhhhhh!  This explains SO much! Wolfgang monkey?  what monkey?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for your generous offer George, but you only need to tie *one* pattern, multiplied by the number of tiers.  As things stand now, you would need to tie 28 copies of your Blackjack fly.  Also, you only need to include a return address and postage to cover your submission.  The flies must be in to me by 28 Feb.  I must leave for Florida this morning until Saturday so will be unavailable for messages until then. Thanks, Frank Dear Frank: If you want, put me down for ONE new BLACKJACK Steelhead/Salmon Fly Streamer tied by me, and for ONE DRY FLY tied by George Harvey which is a collector’s item.  It’s value alone is $125 for one of these George Harvey dry flies. I will also send you some coin to help defray some of your postal costs.  How soon would you like to have these two flies Frank and are these flies enough for the exchange? Sincerely, George — (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/products/gehrke_rods_3.html

Well, okay . . . but let’s make that either the Light Cahill Dry or Wet Fly?  It takes a long time to tie one BlackJack.  Too many flies and not enough heart beats left, LOL! — (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

Dear Frank: If you want, put me down for ONE new BLACKJACK Steelhead/Salmon Fly Streamer tied by me, and for ONE DRY FLY tied by George Harvey which is a collector’s item.  It’s value alone is $125 for one of these George Harvey dry flies.

I personally believe that George Harvey tied flies are a collector’s item but they are NOT valued at $125 a piece.  I am sure that is how much YOU claim your George Harvey ties to be worth on your insurance policies. Can I interest you in some ocean-front property in central PA? Dave — proud owner of a shadowbox of flies tied by George Harvey

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 12:38 AM Frank, What a good idea the fly swap.  I live in Holland. Count me in for a Wallonian Special. We use this fly a lot in the Belgian Ardennen.We catch mostly Trout and Flag Salmon with this dry fly. I sent an email but you seem to have some trouble with all the enthusiastic email. Rudi Verberne OK would-be flyswappers, here’s the 3rd update for the 2nd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2001, this thing really took off…….27 signed on as of now…Truly an international flyswap, we now have USA, Canada, The Netherlands, Germany and Australia, and I know there’s got to be others out there laying in the weeds……Willi? Wolfie? Zimbo? <<he’s good for a bamboo rod.  :-) Herman Nijland…     to be announced Dave LaCourse….      Bottom Dweller Caddis Worm Bob Weinberger..       #16 Biot & CDC Caddis Peter Charles……         to be announced Dave Martell…….        Orange/Gold/Brown Clouser Deep Minnow/Crawdad Thom Adams…….        Tube body Callibaetis #14 Robert Mayrand        to be announced Dave Blackett            to be announced Alex Bromham           Iron Blue Dun

Response:

Mystery of the missing mail solved! I had setup a FLYSWAP folder in both my OE mail client and my Yahoo web mail, it seems they all went to the web mail site and *that* FLYSWAP folder…they’re all there, every single one.  Following is an updated list, and if you don’t see your name on there, give me a holler.  Sorry for the confusion. OK would-be flyswappers, here’s the 2nd update for the 2nd Annual Great Herman Nijland…     to be announced Dave LaCourse….      Bottom Dweller Caddis Worm Bob Weinberger..       #16 Biot & CDC Caddis Peter Charles……         to be announced Dave Martell…….        Orange/Gold/Brown Clouser Deep Minnow/Crawdad Thom Adams…….        Tube body Callibaetis #14 Robert Mayrand        to be announced Dave Blackett            to be announced Alex Bromham           Iron Blue Dun

Response:

So, we shooting for 50 tyers this time?  We’re up to 25 in 24 hours!

OK would-be flyswappers, here’s the 2nd update for the 2nd Annual Great

<big list snipped

Response:

Yikes!  I hope not Stan!  Things should slow down now that the initial rush is over (?)  Seems to me we had about 29 sign up for the last Great FlySwap then it settled down to about 24 I think.  We now have 24 (at last count) Frank (Already tired and gray swapmeister!) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, we shooting for 50 tyers this time?  We’re up to 25 in 24 hours! OK would-be flyswappers, here’s the 2nd update for the 2nd Annual Great <big list snipped

Response:

Mystery of the missing mail solved!

Frank, did you receive an email from me wherein I offered to send you bamboo fly rods instead of flies on account of the fact that I don’t tie? –Steve (just checking

Response:

Now, that’s likely to increase interest in the swap. JR — To reply, remove the Qs from the address above – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mystery of the missing mail solved! Frank, did you receive an email from me wherein I offered to send you bamboo fly rods instead of flies on account of the fact that I don’t tie? –Steve (just checking

Response:

Yikes!  I hope not Stan!  Things should slow down now that the initial rush is over (?)  Seems to me we had about 29 sign up for the last Great FlySwap then it settled down to about 24 I think.  We now have 24 (at last count) Frank (Already tired and gray swapmeister!) Church

After you’ve got your breath back, mine’s a Cahill Wet. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Question:

Speaking of trollbait, looks like you have a little extra time on your hands. I didn’t fire the first shot, posted a simple inquiry about a member of ROFF that was active a few years ago and tried to calm the zoo down.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are gentlemen on ROFF, and occasionally there are dicks, but up to now the booby prize it seems, must go, to be46, we have been trolled by experts, and also completely uninitiated, but not often have we been so trolled, by an ego so inflated. There was a case or two of course, some old Roffians may recall, but these were mostly fly-by-nights, and contributed bugger-all, it will be interesting then to see if this as well is such a case, or if indeed he settles down, behaves himself, and finds his place. One is obliged of course to ask, why forty six? why not forty seven? are there no names? just numbers ? in happy trollers heaven. When one walks into a pub there, does one insult the guests? is this condition treatable ? perhaps to do with overactive testes? Balls are of course important, cojones in fact may be admired, but mostly when directed by intelligence, and not just wildly fired, beware the wrath of ROFF, although the flames of hell are hot, the flames of ROFF are awful things when directed at some snot. The smell is indescribable, and the fumes would choke a horse, so unless you want an awful singeing, then take a different course. What is the point of this charade? why bother with these things? If you wish to be insulting, there are other places you could stretch your wings. Think on Icarus then, who in hubris, flew too high and melted all his wax, your feathers may well fall off too, if you continue with these stupid cracks, and though bald eagles may be noble, bald trollers are just an ugly pain, perhaps you might consider this, before you post a load of crap on here again? We are here to talk on many things, mainly concerning fishing with a fly, and we do not take it kindly when strangers our colleagues here decry, you do not know Wayno, in fact it seems hardly anybody here, so why bother then insulting them? No one will lend an ear. If you wish to post to ROFF, then learn some manners please, an apology indeed would be quite nice, and might some appease, of course if you continue in your quest to raise some Roffian ire, don

Question:

South Africa is not all that bad I do admit to a lot of crime here though Aids is not much of a problem among the white communities they say something like 35% of all Africans are infected From Gavin

That’s what I was talking about.  It’s been in the news over here quite a bit lately.  Didn’t realize that it was localized to the black community. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

Response:

if one was limited to 1 line for each line weight #2-#12 and could only spend about $50 on each line what kind,weight,taper,density(floating sinking etc.)price and color would it be is there a preference for certain line which lines are the most popular which line would you recommend for a beginner what do you think of multi tips etc. these answers will help in restocking a new fly shop in south africa we have got airflow flylines but want to now what the craze is now information will be greatly appreciated tight lines from Gavin

If I walked into a fly shop and they had only 1 type of line in each weight, I would immediately walk out. Peter G. Aitken

Response:

If I walked into a fly shop and they had only 1 type of line in each weight, I would immediately walk out.

LOL.  I didn’t think about that but I agree.  Unless it is the only shop within a 100 miles and I need stuff now. I’ve been in a situation where I went fishing to a location that I was told had a local fly-shop.  Therefore, I chose to buy some of my stuff at their shop in hopes of getting some local information.  However, the shop turned out to be a small corner in a gas station.  The only other shop was 3 hours away. — Vern The new ROFF page: http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfishing4fun "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

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If I walked into a fly shop and they had only 1 type of line in each weight, I would immediately walk out.  If you were in a society where the average yearly  income is 1/100 of the US, you might view shopping  opportunities in a different light.  Greg.

I could be wrong, but I’m guessing that Gavin’s folks aren’t selling a lot of fly lines to the native South Africans. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

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 HMMMM  lessssseee. I net 85K so 1/100 would be $850. HOLY SMOKES Pancho I just spent more for 6 mo. professional hazard insurance than the average annual income of 4/5 of the world.Not to mention the annual dues I pay to the various professional societies.AH the wonders of tax loopholes.  By the way 3 out of 4 people make up 75 % of the worlds population.   OK OK OK  shut up and go fishing. —  Don Thompson  Zoomie(BushBug)  ACA#3460  TLCB#335  Any Time, Any Place  Pull the chocks, lets get this kite in the air.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I walked into a fly shop and they had only 1 type of line in each weight, I would immediately walk out.  If you were in a society where the average yearly  income is 1/100 of the US, you might view shopping  opportunities in a different light.  Greg.

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I second the trashing of the Airflow lines.  I’ve only been fly fishing for 12 years, but for the last 2 years I’ve been ff about 4-5 times a week. I’ve used the Airflo Delta and Bass lines:  they suck terribly.  Never ever lose their memory (when in Florida I stretched a line around my garage and left it in the 100 degree heat for 24 hours, and it still retained its memory coil) and they are sure to tangle on at least 25 to 50% of your casts.  Even the cheapest Cortlands (333) and SAs are far better. Adam

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But poke holes in them with a pin first and you might (with luck) have a few new customers in … maybe … 15-20 years!

My mother sells rubbers to sailors. My pop pokes  the holes with a pin. My sister performs the abortions. My God, how the money rolls in! (Just kidding…Mom’s a lawyer, Dad teaches, and the closest thing I have to a sister is their female Golden Retriever) Vegetables aren’t food. Vegetables are what the food eats.

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LOL…the minute I read your message and saw the word ‘airflow’ I thought, "*((&%)# line memory!"  Then I read the replies that are above mine and have little to add.   Absolute crap.   I’ve been fly fishing many years now and can think of few things I’ve purchased that have caused me more anger and headaches during the short time I used it. I now keep what’s left of it in my large fishing box to use for emergency shoe laces, tent rope, etc. Until recently I had a large enough house lot so that I could stretch my fly lines out in the sun full length under tension to get out any line memory, prior to most trips.  It worked great on everything but the Airflow, which still looked like a floating slinky on the surface when used the next day. I’m not as conversant as some on the new lines, so can’t recommend any particular brand, but just wanted to add my $.02 worth about ‘Airflow.’ Max Before you buy.

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Trash the AirFlo lines, stock a full line of AirFlo leaders, get SA and Cortland fly lines, give out free condoms with each purchase over $50 or you’ll have no customers in 5 years. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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Gavin, I thought you were the 16 year old kid.  Didn’t you say that you started fly-fishing 6 years ago when you were 10?  Now, you have your own fly-shop in South Africa? — Vern The new ROFF page: http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfishing4fun "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

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I second the trashing of the Airflow lines.  I’ve only been fly fishing for 12 years, but for the last 2 years I’ve been ff about 4-5 times a week. I’ve used the Delta and Bass lines:  they suck terribly.  Never ever lose their memory (when in Florida I stretched a line around my garage and left it in the 100 degree heat for 24 hours, and it still retained its memory coil) and they are sure to tangle on at least 25 to 50% of your casts.  Even the cheapest Cortlands (333) and SAs are far better. Adam

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if one was limited to 1 line for each line weight #2-#12 and could only spend about $50 on each line what kind,weight,taper,density(floating sinking etc.)price and color would it be is there a preference for certain line which lines are the most popular which line would you recommend for a beginner what do you think of multi tips etc. these answers will help in restocking a new fly shop in south africa we have got airflow flylines but want to now what the craze is now information will be greatly appreciated tight lines from Gavin

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if one was limited to 1 line for each line weight #2-#12 and could only spend about $50 on each line what kind,weight,taper,density(floating sinking etc.)price and color would it be is there a preference for certain line which lines are the most popular which line would you recommend for a beginner what do you think of multi tips etc. these answers will help in restocking a new fly shop in south africa we have got airflow flylines but want to now what the craze is now information will be greatly appreciated tight lines from Gavin

Again, trash the airflow lines.  I like the Rio lines.  However, Corland is a big company and might be easier to get in South Africa. Their lines are okay depending on which one you get. — Vern The new ROFF page: http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfishing4fun "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

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Trash the AirFlo lines, stock a full line of AirFlo leaders, get SA and Cortland fly lines, give out free condoms with each purchase over $50 or you’ll have no customers in 5 years. — Wayne

___  The voice of experience!  Good advice. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com "the sage continues"

  gink.vcf

< 1K Download

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… give out free condoms with each purchase over $50 or you’ll have no customers in 5 years.

But poke holes in them with a pin first and you might (with luck) have a few new customers in … maybe … 15-20 years! Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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That is "Airflo", not "airflow", which is immaterial in any case as it is only fit for the bin. If you do not already know the answers to these questions, quite apart from the prices involved, then you should not be opening a fly shop. The "craze" at the moment appears to be inline skates. TL MC "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Sent: Donnerstag, 13. Juli 2000 19:56 if one was limited to 1 line for each line weight #2-#12 and could only spend about $50 on each line what kind,weight,taper,density(floating sinking etc.)price and color would it be is there a preference for certain line which lines are the most popular which line would you recommend for a beginner what do you think of multi tips etc. these answers will help in restocking a new fly shop in south africa we have got airflow flylines but want to now what the craze is now information will be greatly appreciated tight lines from Gavin — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de if one was limited to 1 line for each line weight #2-#12 and could only spend about $50 on each line what kind,weight,taper,density(floating sinking etc.)price and color would it be is there a preference for certain line which lines are the most popular which line would you recommend for a beginner what do you think of multi tips etc. these answers will help in restocking a new fly shop in south africa we have got airflow flylines but want to now what the craze is now information will be greatly appreciated tight lines from Gavin

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… give out free condoms with each purchase over $50 or you’ll have no customers in 5 years. But poke holes in them with a pin first and you might (with luck) have a few new customers in … maybe … 15-20 years! Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

If they live that long.  Odds aren’t as good as they used to be in SA. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … give out free condoms with each purchase over $50 or you’ll have no customers in 5 years. But poke holes in them with a pin first and you might (with luck) have a few new customers in … maybe … 15-20 years! Tight Lines, Tony Deacon If they live that long.  Odds aren’t as good as they used to be in SA. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

South Africa is not all that bad I do admit to a lot of crime here though Aids is not much of a problem among the white communities they say something like 35% of all Africans are infected From Gavin

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That is "Airflo", not "airflow", which is immaterial in any case as it is only fit for the bin. If you do not already know the answers to these questions, quite apart from the prices involved, then you should not be opening a fly shop. The "craze" at the moment appears to be inline skates. TL MC "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Im just wanted to know as we have sold most of AIRFLO stock and plan to get more I said if 1 was limited to $50 which is about R320 with our exchange rate at the moment Oh I dont own a shop I am helping my friend who does regards Gavin

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if one was limited to 1 line for each line weight #2-#12 and could only spend about $50 on each line what kind,weight,taper,density(floating sinking etc.)price and color would it be is there a preference for certain line which lines are the most popular which line would you recommend for a beginner what do you think of multi tips etc. these answers will help in restocking a new fly shop in south africa we have got airflow flylines but want to now what the craze is now information will be greatly appreciated tight lines from Gavin

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Question:

Does any one know when the spring releases begin on the San Juan in New Mexico? JK

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From a post on the Compuserve Fly Fishing Forum: This is the latest flow information for the San Juan received yesterday from the Bureau of Reclamation Through March – 500cfs Through April – 690cfs Through May – 1370cfs June through December 500cfs These flow plans are based on the current low snow packs in the higher elevations and are subject to change. Will let you know of any changes. Bill Wayne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does any one know when the spring releases begin on the San Juan in New Mexico? JK

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<snipped I think in May. bc. — ROFF is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea — massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind-boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it."

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Question:

I will be going to Glacier National Park in early July.  Any recommendations on locations inside the park to fish would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

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I will be going to Glacier National Park in early July.  Any recommendations on locations inside the park to fish would be greatly appreciated.

Lucky person.  Glacier National Park has some great places to fish. However, bear (sorry for the pun) in mind that most flyfishing opportunity is stillwater.  You also must look out for Grizz.  July is not a bad time for bears…just give em their space.  My favorite lake to fish is Upper Medicine Lake on the East Side.  Its a nasty hike but there are beautiful 18 West Slope Cutthroat in the lake. They often come to the shoreline in the afternoon.  However, a friend of mine told me that brook trout have invaded recently so we can imagine that the cutt population will be screwed up by the char. Yours, -John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks.

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Question:

I was fishing a small creek last night and noticed anumber of large carp leaping as if trying to catch a fly. Some would get clear out of the water — these were 8-10 pound carp. What causes a carp to leap like that? By the way, there was no hatch. grant

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I was fishing a small creek last night and noticed anumber of large carp leaping as if trying to catch a fly. Some would get clear out of the water — these were 8-10 pound carp. What causes a carp to leap like

At this time of year, probably normal spawning behavior. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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I was fishing a small creek last night and noticed anumber of large carp leaping as if trying to catch a fly. Some would get clear out of the water — these were 8-10 pound carp. What causes a carp to leap like that? By the way, there was no hatch. grant

Carp frequently jump like that during spawining.  However, Carp do surface feed where there is a natural food source.  e.g. my son and I catch such 8-10 lb. carp in our local river where a Mulberry tree overhangs the water and the berries drop in.  It is also common for us to enconter channel cats from 5 lbs and up in the same locale.  He has even caught several bass in this area.  

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I was fishing a small creek last night and noticed anumber of large carp leaping as if trying to catch a fly. Some would get clear out of the water — these were 8-10 pound carp. What causes a carp to leap like that? By the way, there was no hatch. grant

I don’t know, but my theory is that they are too dumb to know where the water ends and the air begins.  They just keep on swimming up! Eric Oden

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I was fishing a small creek last night and noticed anumber of large carp leaping as if trying to catch a fly. Some would get clear out of the water — these were 8-10 pound carp. What causes a carp to leap like that? By the way, there was no hatch.

It’s just a guess but I think that Carp jump, not to catch a fly, but as part of their mating ritual.  There are hundreds of carp spawning in one of the nearby streams and they have been jumping for the last couple of weeks.  Now they’re often seen thrashing about with each other near the shoreline.  I’ve seen several fish in the 20 pound range.  I’ve even caught a few that were in the 10-20 pound range and had a couple that broke me off before I could ever see them. John Fereira

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Carp will roll as part of their spawing activities. Carp will also rise  to insects or floating seeds/berries or other vegetarian food. I have caught carp on a dry fly tied to imitate the seeds of the Cottonwood tree.

Very interesting, what do you call it "Matching The Bloom".  When I am in the mountains fishing for trout and those cottonwood seeds are on the water I can’t get a trout to come up for a dry fly. Ernie Harrison

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I’ve also heard it described as "Matching the Thatch", at least as far as the grass carp is concerned. Rick — Richard Padgett – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carp will roll as part of their spawing activities. Carp will also rise  to insects or floating seeds/berries or other vegetarian food. I have caught carp on a dry fly tied to imitate the seeds of the Cottonwood tree. Very interesting, what do you call it "Matching The Bloom".  When I am in the mountains fishing for trout and those cottonwood seeds are on the water I can’t get a trout to come up for a dry fly. Ernie Harrison

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I’ve also heard it described as "Matching the Thatch", at least as far as the grass carp is concerned.

God I love it.  Carp flyfishing slang.  You go man ! — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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I was fishing a small creek last night and noticed anumber of large carp leaping as if trying to catch a fly. Some would get clear out of the water — these were 8-10 pound carp. What causes a carp to leap like At this time of year, probably normal spawning behavior.

Maybe, they jump for the same reason whales jump.  They have an itch….. — Joseph J. Egry IV, CHMM          |         "Fate protects fools, small Environmental Scientist          |          children, and ships named Riker http://www.netcom.com/~jjegry/my_pages.html

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Carp will roll as part of their spawing activities. Carp will also rise  to insects or floating seeds/berries or other vegetarian food. I have caught carp on a dry fly tied to imitate the seeds of the Cottonwood tree.

Response:

I was fishing a small creek last night and noticed anumber of large carp leaping as if trying to catch a fly. Some would get clear out of the water — these were 8-10 pound carp. What causes a carp to leap like At this time of year, probably normal spawning behavior. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

I just got back from musky fishing n the Chippewa flowage in nothern wisconsin and the carp were leaping out of the water all over in the shallows whilst nest building.  Unfortunately I snagged a redhorse in the middle of the back while casting a gold rapala.  Twenty minutes later and several hundred yards down the river where he dragged the boat he broke off.  I did not know what I had for the first fifteen minutes till he surfaced.  I had visions of making the cover of field and stream with my record musky and could hardly stand my knees were shaking so much.

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It’s just a guess but I think that Carp jump, not to catch a fly, but as part of their mating ritual.

For trout in the vicinity of spawning carp, a large peach or beige colored glow bug makes a good carp-egg imitation. — -Wayne Trzyna

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Question:

about flyfishing, I learned as a bait fisherman. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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about flyfishing, I learned as a bait fisherman. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

     Puleeeze, Tim! You sound as pompous as us fly-fisher-persons.      From one who learned from her father in 1938 how to sling a worm.                                   Louise Scharrenberg

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about flyfishing, I learned as a bait fisherman. — TimW Halfordian Golfer      Puleeeze, Tim! You sound as pompous as us fly-fisher-persons.      From one who learned from her father in 1938 how to sling a worm.                                   Louise Scharrenberg

Interesting twist on my post to be sure… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Question:

I’ll be turkey hunting in the florida area next week and was wondering if anyone has any experiance fishing the cold upstream of rte 2. Ive never fished it but seen it deep in the woods and it looks tasty but I never threw a fly there. Any info would be great!! P.S. I dont mind walking

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: I’ll be turkey hunting in the florida area next week and was wondering if : anyone has any experiance fishing the cold upstream of rte 2. Ive never : fished it but seen it deep in the woods and it looks tasty but I never : threw a fly there. : Any info would be great!! : P.S. I dont mind walking The Deerfield River guidebook describes it as a highly variable flowing stream with a small population of wild brookies.  I know the state stocks it, but I’m not sure with what, and there’s always the chance that big fish from that nice pool on the deerfield that the cold empties into could have come upstream.  I don’t know if the state stocks this river anywhere upstream of the last route 2 bridge.  They may, but I’m sure most of the fishing pressure is on the lower stretches.

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Question:

Flamebait Alert! I guess I will have to confess.  I sound like that yuppie.  I have been lurking on this group for about a month, listening to opinions about this and that and soaking up alot of info.  I have read a couple of books and took a flyfishing course that was offered at the local university. I haven’t bought a rod yet.  I think that it will be a St. Crois or a Sage.  I am leaning for the Sage.  As a Yuppie it might be status, or it might be that it seems to be a better rod and I liked the feel.  Oh, by the way the people who taught the fly fishing course brought TU info with them.  I sent in my dues.  I will try not to try your patience on the water. GRF

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OK OK OK I will admit it I like using nice equipment, having fitted waders, sized wading boots, and my Kangol hat as much as I like putting on a crisp white shirt and tie.  I enjoy the better things of fly fishing but….. even if I were wearing a Tux in the stream I would not hesitate to dive in after a well tied adams.  A lot of this has to do with having respect for the trout and the stream.  They put on their best for me so I put on my best for them.  Sure I could tie trash bags around my legs,  haul in a case of beer and catch fish with a cane pole but then it wouldn’t be the same for me.  And if I only fished for food I would use chum and a cast net.  If a guy wants to spend a grand on a fly rod I say let him do it.  The important thing is to not look down on those who cannot afford such equipment, to show respect for the other guy in the stream, and to understand that to a trout there is little difference between Simms waders and Hefty bags.   Thank you. Tom

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Flamebait Alert! I guess I will have to confess.  I sound like that yuppie.  I have been lurking on this group for about a month, listening to opinions about this and that and soaking up alot of info.  I have read a couple of books and took a flyfishing course that was offered at the local university. I haven’t bought a rod yet.  I think that it will be a St. Crois or a Sage.  I am leaning for the Sage.  As a Yuppie it might be status, or it might be that it seems to be a better rod and I liked the feel.  Oh, by the way the people who taught the fly fishing course brought TU info with them.  I sent in my dues.  I will try not to try your patience on the water. GRF

By all means, try their patience – it’s how you learn. And if someone tells you that they didn’t need to try other people’s patience while they were learning, ask them to introduce you to their father, God. — There is no such thing as a dumb question, but there IS such a thing as a dumb answer – I’ve given some.

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