Question:

But,one can build the body into most of the bend, use hook shape to the advantage of simulation.

That’s true, especially for scuds, caddis pupae, etc.  Still, by far my most productive fly, a bead-head PT on a TMC 3761, has a pretty straight body that takes up no more than half the total hook length (eye to point). I agree with your earlier statement, "On many subsurface patterns, and even some  surface emerger types, the hook bend can serve to mimic the shape of the natural nymph, pupa or whatever", especially for those forms, like emerging pupae that have associated air bubbles.  The hook bend may correspond in the trout’s eye to the curved edge of the bubble or bubble mass.   Although it’s an uncommon fly, compare the picture of the daphnia fly Dave LaCourse found and posted on ROFT http://www.danica.com/flytier/hverhaar/daphnia.htm to photos of daphnia http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/artjun99/wflea.html Without the hook bend, there’d be little resemblance.  Makes you wonder if all those tiny things on curved #24-28 hooks that we think are midge patterns aren’t really taken by the trout as daphnia (not that it really matters). JR

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Some manufacturers are now producing bright gold, green, red and blue salmon/steelhead hooks.  Why waste all that bare metal when you can dress it up?

One wonders if a little metallic paint added to make the hook look more like the tied bug would make a difference.  I might have to try that for fun just to see. Sandy

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Maybe that big curvy part looks like an ovipositor.  See my web site www.sluttyflies.com

Here’s the sex spam we were looking for.  Bugs waving their ovipositors around.  Hmmph. Sandy

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  One wonders if a little metallic paint added to make the hook look more like the tied bug would make a difference.  I might have to try that for fun just to see.

They are starting to make the colored hooks in trout sizes too.  I saw some at a fly shop on the Beaverhead River and Lou Teletski gave me a fly that used a red hook when we went fishing the other day.  I haven’t tried them yet, but I can see how they might benefit a fly tyer. — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

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They are starting to make the colored hooks in trout sizes too.  I saw some at a fly shop on the Beaverhead River and Lou Teletski gave me a fly that used a red hook when we went fishing the other day.  I haven’t tried them yet, but I can see how they might benefit a fly tyer.

Did you see who the hook’s maker was? If someone here’s interested in trying it for themselves, you can buy metallic paint (normally used for jewelry) here: http://www.fancifulsinc.com/ Sandy

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You’d think (regardless of your species-specific sense of perception) that this big ol’ ugly THING just hanging there off the bottom of our handiwork is a lot more obvious than the many fine details we obsess over.  Why on earth would any trout swimming not key on THAT?

Depending on the angle the fish sees it from, yes it’s very obvious and I have no doubt whatever that the trout sees it.  But trout are also very used to seeing things on insects – broken legs and wings, a sliver of leaf or filament of weed, or even a pebble and twig case on a caddis.  The trout sees it and just assumes it’s a harmless piece of flotsam, extra fiber if you will.  Only if a trout has been hooked a number of times would he actually recognize it as a "bad" insect, IMO.

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Did you see who the hook’s maker was? If someone here’s interested in trying it for themselves, you can buy metallic paint (normally used for jewelry) here: http://www.fancifulsinc.com/

The hooks I saw were not labeled.  It looked like the shop had bought them bulk and packaged them in little zip lock bags on their own.  I will call out there tomorrow and find out where they bought them at.  I do recall they were expensive (like $10 for 25 hooks if I remember correctly) so your metallic paint idea might be a very good alternative. — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

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"The trout just assumes it’s a harmless piece of flotsam, extra fiber if you will." "Assumes", to deduce.  The ability to come to a logical conclusion based on facts.   "Trout", to be a genius.  The ability to attend college courses without paying tuitions.  To Trout, as to flaunt wonderful phrases upon non-thinking ass holes who fly fish as a reflex action. "Seeing Trout" extablishes the ability to understand languages such as English. "Feeding Trout", The need to eat with the foreknowledge that to not do so will result in death.   "Dieting Trout", as in "Free Rising" selective trout who know the difference between choosing either a protein insect over one burden with excessive carbohydrates and undesirable fiber. Flyfisherman:  That which has a brain the size of a pea and who talks to the fishes as in Mafia Fisherman.   All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

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Warren Findley: One wonders if a little metallic paint added to make the hook look more like the tied bug would make a difference.  I might have to try that for fun just to see. They are starting to make the colored hooks in trout sizes too.  I saw some at a fly shop on the Beaverhead River and Lou Teletski gave me a fly that used a red hook when we went fishing the other day.  I haven’t tried them yet, but I can see how they might benefit a fly tyer. —

I’ve been using red nymph hooks for five or six years.  It’s the only color I’ve seen in the smaller sizes. As far as glitter is concerned, good old nail polish (Wet and Wild) with the silver or gold flecks in it works well.  Also, Orvis sells some head cement with silver flecks.   Dave

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I’ve been using red nymph hooks for five or six years.  It’s the only color I’ve seen in the smaller sizes. As far as glitter is concerned, good old nail polish (Wet and Wild) with the silver or gold flecks in it works well.  Also, Orvis sells some head cement with silver flecks. Dave

Do you think there’s an advantage in using colored hooks? The nail polish idea is a good one — you can get it in any crazy color these days, and Wet & Wild is pretty cheap, but the clerk at the store might look at you funny. Sandy

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Reading about colored hooks now is a revelation to me Jon and I suppose it makes sense to include the hook coloring of olive, for instance, to add to the tone of an olive caddis emerger, for instance.  It seems this is one of those rare instances where the present generation is going to drag me, screaming and kicking into the future.  I might be an old dog learning new tricks but it doesn’t mean I have to like it. Now if you please, would someone hold my hand down hard upon this table so it won’t lift that shot of Jack Daniels to my quivering lips? Mr. G. All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

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……. But trout are also very used to seeing things on insects – broken legs and wings, a sliver of leaf or filament of weed, or even a pebble and twig case on a caddis.  The trout sees it and just assumes it’s a harmless piece of flotsam, extra fiber if you will.  Only if a trout has been hooked a number of times would he actually recognize it as a "bad" insect, IMO.

Yes, that’s all plausible. JR

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Do you think there’s an advantage in using colored hooks? The nail polish idea is a good one — you can get it in any crazy color these days, and Wet & Wild is pretty cheap, but the clerk at the store might look at you funny.

I called up that fly shop in Dillon and they said the hooks are manufactured by Daiichi.  I checked the Daiichi website and they have red, black, nickel and gold hooks in a variety of styles.  Unfortunately they do not list their hooks that would be of use to fly fishermen so I emailed the company for more information.  Here is a link to their website if you care to take a look. http://www.daiichihooks.com/daiichi/index.html — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

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I called up that fly shop in Dillon and they said the hooks are manufactured by Daiichi.  I checked the Daiichi website and they have red, black, nickel and gold hooks in a variety of styles.  Unfortunately they do not list their hooks that would be of use to fly fishermen so I emailed the company for more information.  Here is a link to their website if you care to take a look. http://www.daiichihooks.com/daiichi/index.html

   Another manufacturer of colored hooks is Gamakatsu (www.gamakatsu.com). I’ve seen them in the local fly shops but never tied with them, but I’ll vouch for the quality of their product. I was a serious ocean/big game fisherman in a past life; Gamakatsu and Owner were the only hooks I’d use.

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Warren?  Wouldn’t you t hink a gold hook would most likely be like adding gold tinsel to a fly?  I don’t know. George All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

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I think, but have no proof for it, that hook recognition develops in fish over time and that this is a major part of what we anglers call "selective behavior". I feel this is mostly a factor with flies at/near the surface, and more an issue in slower, richer streams that offer more time for the fish to observe their prey. On many subsurface patterns, and even some surface emerger types, the hook bend can serve to mimic the shape of the natural nymph,pupa or whatever.

I agree it’s mostly a factor in slower, richer streams.  I’d have thought, though, it was also more important with subsurface flies than with dries, first because the "profile" of the bend is reduced when viewed from below, and second because, as well described by Peter in the Fly Perceptions thread, it may be that the bare part of the hook is somewhat masked by the dimples and associated halos caused by the hackle and tail. JR

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When I first read the header to this post I ignored because I thought it was sex site SPAM!!!!!!!

Sorry.  Fine state of affairs when we *expect* to see sex spam, ain’t it? What you say may very well be true, but like I said in another post, it’s something that confirms my opinion that fish perceive our flies in a very different way from the way we do. That "big-ass curvy part" is very evident to me and seems even more prevalent in smaller flies. Maybe they ignore it because they tend to look for certain things that are "right" about a fly or for a certain trigger instead of things that are "wrong." Maybe those "educated" fish have learned to look for things that are "wrong" as well???

Well, my speculations were just musings.  To me, it remains a great mystery that fish will overlook something so conspicuous.  On the other hand, say a fish ignores a nymph presented once, twice, and takes it on the third cast.  It might well be that, just by chance, the fly was turned the third time in a way to present a top or bottom view (with the bare hook bend hidden), while the first two times, again by chance alone, the fly passed the fish turned in a way that presented the fly more in profile, with the bend more exposed. When fishing the traditional downstream swing for steelhead here in the PNW, one tactic is to throw upstream mends to slow down the swing, allowing the fish the longest possible view of the fly (a good tactic when swinging soft hackles for trout, too).  A disadvantage is that unless you use a riffle hitch or some such, the view the fish has tends to be a butt-on, reduced view.  It addition to the riffle hitch, a greased line presentation also serves to give the fish a full profile view of the fly.  The difference (from fishing for trout) is that you just want the steelhead to see the very most of whatever silhouette the fly happens to have, to maximize the sheer provocation value of the fly–you’re not trying to imitate any particular natural foodstuff.  Here the more bare hook you have visible, maybe the better.  Some manufacturers are now producing bright gold, green, red and blue salmon/steelhead hooks.  Why waste all that bare metal when you can dress it up? JR

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I’ve often wondered about that "big-ass curvy part", but most of the time it doesn’t seem to bother the trout’s attraction to the lure.

Good thing, too, otherwise we’d all have to find another sport.  ;)  I guess that’s what amazes me:  that it *doesn’t* bother the fish while very minor differences in other parts of the fly will make a difference. JR

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Maybe that big curvy part looks like an ovipositor.  See my web site www.sluttyflies.com

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I believe that many streams (I know of three) where the fish are "opportunistic" — that is, if it looks like it could be food, they will strike it.  On the rivers I recently visited in Idaho, there was no hatch, yet they readily took a humpy or a Klinkhammer, the bigger the better.  The guide gave my grandson a #10 red humpy and I marveled at its effectiveness.   This is just the opposite of another river I fish – when there is no hatch, the fish will rise to a very small, well presented dry.  Nymphing the rivers in Idaho was very successful, but again you had to give them a big nymph.  My #18s and 20s were useless.  Those same 18s and 20s on another river will catch many fish.

"Bigger is better" is right. I seldom use dries smaller than #12 or nymphs smaller than #14 in those Idaho waters you fished. I think the deal is that they’re relatively sterile freestone rivers. The fish jump on whatever they see that looks edible. Large, good floating Chernobyl patterns with dropper nymphs are very effective. So are large orange stimulators. You can catch these fish with an indicator attached to a bare hook. I only use the standard nymph patterns — pheasant tails, hare’s ears, prince nymphs, and lately copper johns. Also, the fish are mostly cutthroats, which are notoriously gullible. It doesn’t make for particularly challenging fishing (aside from the ass-busting hiking to get to the good spots), but it’s fun. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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John replies:  I’d have thought, though, it was also more important with subsurface flies than with dries, first because the "profile" of the bend is reduced when viewed from below,

But,one can build the body into most of the bend, use hook shape to the advantage of simulation. it may be that the bare part of the hook is somewhat masked by the dimples and associated halos caused by the hackle and tail.

I disagree. If you watch how a fresh, well hackled dry fly floats, the hook penetrates the surface,except for a tightly palmered hackle. Most dries settle right on top of the surface with the body, with some hackle tips in the water and the ones on the sides doing the work of holding the fly up. Anyhow, the hook will be seen, and quite distinctly from the body silhouette.                              Tom L

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John writes: just what do we imagine the fish make of that big long hook bend

I think, but have no proof for it, that hook recognition develops in fish over time and that this is a major part of what we anglers call "selective behavior". I feel this is mostly a factor with flies at/near the surface, and more an issue in slower, richer streams that offer more time for the fish to observe their prey. On many subsurface patterns, and even some surface emerger types, the hook bend can serve to mimic the shape of the natural nymph,pupa or whatever.                                Tom L

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John writes: just what do we imagine the fish make of that big long hook bend I think, but have no proof for it, that hook recognition develops in fish over time and that this is a major part of what we anglers call "selective behavior". I feel this is mostly a factor with flies at/near the surface, and more an issue in slower, richer streams that offer more time for the fish to observe their prey. On many subsurface patterns, and even some surface emerger types, the hook bend can serve to mimic the shape of the natural nymph,pupa or whatever.

When I first read the header to this post I ignored because I thought it was sex site SPAM!!!!!!! What you say may very well be true, but like I said in another post, it’s something that confirms my opinion that fish perceive our flies in a very different way from the way we do. That "big-ass curvy part" is very evident to me and seems even more prevalent in smaller flies. Maybe they ignore it because they tend to look for certain things that are "right" about a fly or for a certain trigger instead of things that are "wrong." Maybe those "educated" fish have learned to look for things that are "wrong" as well??? Willi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Willi writes: John writes: just what do we imagine the fish make of that big long hook bend I think, but have no proof for it, that hook recognition develops in fish over time and that this is a major part of what we anglers call "selective behavior". I feel this is mostly a factor with flies at/near the surface, and more an issue in slower, richer streams that offer more time for the fish to observe their prey. On many subsurface patterns, and even some surface emerger types, the hook bend can serve to mimic the shape of the natural nymph,pupa or whatever. When I first read the header to this post I ignored because I thought it was sex site SPAM!!!!!!! What you say may very well be true, but like I said in another post, it’s something that confirms my opinion that fish perceive our flies in a very different way from the way we do. That "big-ass curvy part" is very evident to me and seems even more prevalent in smaller flies. Maybe they ignore it because they tend to look for certain things that are "right" about a fly or for a certain trigger instead of things that are "wrong." Maybe those "educated" fish have learned to look for things that are "wrong" as well??? Willi

I believe that many streams (I know of three) where the fish are "opportunistic" — that is, if it looks like it could be food, they will strike it.  On the rivers I recently visited in Idaho, there was no hatch, yet they readily took a humpy or a Klinkhammer, the bigger the better.  The guide gave my grandson a #10 red humpy and I marveled at its effectiveness.   This is just the opposite of another river I fish – when there is no hatch, the fish will rise to a very small, well presented dry.  Nymphing the rivers in Idaho was very successful, but again you had to give them a big nymph.  My #18s and 20s were useless.  Those same 18s and 20s on another river will catch many fish. I’ve often wondered about that "big-ass curvy part", but most of the time it doesn’t seem to bother the trout’s attraction to the lure. Dave

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The recent discussion about wings, fishes’ perception, etc., reminded me of something I’ve often wondered, even marveled about–one of those things that come unbidden to mind on the thousandth (or two thousandth) fishless cast of the day on a steelhead river. Those of us who agonize over the minutiae of wing size, or number of fibers in the tail, or shade of copper in the ribbing:  just what do we imagine the fish make of that big long hook bend that on some patterns constitutes 50% or more of the whole gestalt (if you’ll pardon the word) presented to the fish?  Think of some ties you’ve seen of English PTs or soft hackles on those short hooks with absolutely huge gaps; yet these are effective flies.  You’d think (regardless of your species-specific sense of perception) that this big ol’ ugly THING just hanging there off the bottom of our handiwork is a lot more obvious than the many fine details we obsess over.  Why on earth would any trout swimming not key on THAT? I’d imagine the influence of the hook bend is least when the fly is viewed from directly above (in which case for most flies, it’s invisible); almost as little when viewed from directly below; slightly greater when viewed at an oblique angle above, behind, or to side; and greatest when viewed at right angles from the side.   If this is right, could it be one reason (in addition to the commonly cited ones) a straight downstream presentation of a dry is successful when casting to selective fish on calm waters?  Could there be implications for presentation of nymphs in slower water?  A reason why LaFontaine’s sparkle pupa (with the bend shrouded) is so effective?  A reason to use nothing but the lightest wire hooks available? (A reason for me to get a life and think about more useful things?) JR

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Question:

If you are near Rushmore you are near Rapid City.  There is excellent fishing in Rapid Creek and in Spring Creek.  I am not sure how well Spring Creek fishes during the heat of summer. Both hold lots of nice fish.  When I fished Spring Creek in May a couple of years ago I had one afternoon of good olives.  Most of the fish I caught during the two days I fished it were on small nymphs fished with weight.  I caught a lot of fish between 11" and 14" and I did catch two fish that were considerably larger. When I was on Rapid Creek there were no hatches but I did well fishing a hopper pattern with a dropper.  I fished a large madam x. Both streams are not very wide so you will not need much rod. JK

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll be visiting Mt. Rushmore next week. Can anyone give me some info on fishing opportunites in the area. I’ll be staying in a town call Lead. Info on rod size, fly selection and anything else that will help me catch some fish is appreaciated. Thanks

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I’ll be visiting Mt. Rushmore next week. Can anyone give me some info on fishing opportunites in the area. I’ll be staying in a town call Lead. Info on rod size, fly selection and anything else that will help me catch some fish is appreaciated. Thanks

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Question:

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,  ;-)  ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Yup. He clean missed that one. A classic "whiff" job…

Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

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,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,  ;-)  ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Yup. He clean missed that one. A classic "whiff" job…

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Dave LaCourse wrote Fiddle Away writes: Well than.  Maybe their’s less diffrince then you think! LOL.  Very good (well?).  You could make two sentences out of it too. "Maybe there’s less diffrince (sic).  *Then* you think.  Naw…..I like your’s betterer.

They’res (sic) a good boy now.  If ur a gwine ta quote me, git the spellin raht! —                                                       -dnc-

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[stuff about SPAM snipped]

Speaking of SPAM, have you all tried: http://pemtropics.mit.edu/~jcho/spam/ (try it.  you’ll like it!) —                                                       -dnc-

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Fiddle Away writes: Well than.  Maybe their’s less diffrince then you think!

LOL.  Very good (well?).  You could make two sentences out of it too.  "Maybe there’s less diffrince (sic).  *Then* you think.  Naw…..I like your’s betterer. Dave L.

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Fiddle Away writes: Well than.  Maybe their’s less diffrince then you think! LOL.  Very good (well?).  You could make two sentences out of it too.  "Maybe there’s less diffrince (sic).  *Then* you think.  Naw…..I like your’s betterer. Dave L.

dry. . . Mr. G  Always confused about them . . . ? — http://www.gink.com/ Latest Updates

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Party time. How nice. You’ve invited SPAM Luncheon Meat to your party. What’s that? It’s a SPAM Party. Well then, you’ll want a SPAM Party Pack. It’s got everything you need to give your party a distinctive SPAM flavor. Everything, that is, except SPAM, which of course can easily be found at your local fishing newsgroup. The SPAM Party Pack serves 12. Cost: $39, plus a shipping and handling charge of $7. Pack includes:                                             SPAM invitations.                                             SPAM paper tablecloth.                                             SPAM paper napkins.                                             SPAM plastic ware.                                             SPAM paper plates.                                             SPAM balloons.                                             SPAM plastic serving tray.                                             SPAM plastic stadium cups.                                             SPAM pennant.                                             SPAM recipe book.                                             And, just for you, a SPAM apron. SPAM Party Packs.                                        No. of SPAM Party                                        Amount enclosed: ($39 ea + $7.00 shipping/handling)                                        Email                                        Payment type: (check one)                                        _____ Check                                        _____ Credit Card (Visa, Mastercard, Discover)                                        Credit Card Type:_____(Visa) _____(MC)                                        _____(Disc.)                                        Credit Card                                        Credit Card                                        Expiration                                        Mail this form with payment to:                                        SPAM Party Pack                                        Gift Center                                        1 Hormel Place                                        Austin, MN 55912 — Levi Life is anything that dies when you stomp on it.                                                         — Dave Barry

You forgot the SPAM TUBE and SPAM SOCK for an additional $100. Oh, that’s right you don’t HAVE to order them They come automaticaly whether you aked for them or not. Bob ( working on a catchy tag line ) Before you buy.

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actually dedicate their entire lives to fly fishing.  They have Web Sites which can contain vast reservoirs of information.  The simpler the address the more valuable the site can be to either the owner or to those seeking free information.   User friendly is a must in cyber fishing for there is the lure of water in all of mankind.  The lure of owning a proper .com web site can and should reflect that sense of wanting to go a certain direction, to join in on the fun, or to simply gravitate to that which makes one feel at home. Conclave Web Sites can be quickly constructed for a News Group for instance just like FAQ sheets can be readily made available. Yellowstoneflyfishing.com could very well create a magnetic draw worth much in more ways then just money.  The hardest part of being on the internet is supporting and maintaining the computer.  But these sites take time and "TIME" is what we all have little of.  For instance, in our case we are spending hundreds of hours on an ongoing basis, just trying to keep our .com sites up to date and new.  People consume reading matter faster then they use toilet paper.  The appetite for information is nearly like owning a black hole.  No matter how original, no matter how fresh your material is, it is old news within a week.   The skills of most fly fishermen will become more deadly then ever before because of this FLY FISHING Information Waterway!  Where can I go here, or there, because I’m going to be in the area on 28 Jul 00, is answered immediately.  The secret places are becoming less sacred as more and more new rods attack.  Not unlike W.W.II, "Loose Lips Sink Ships," today equates to "Loose Lips, Kills Fish". A news groups such as ROFF and ROFFT are really not as Darwinian as they are self serving.  The old saying, "Familiarity Breeds Contempt," turns friendships into like an old oil slick that slowly spreads and discolors the waters of that same Information Waterway.  The world of .coms takes great disciplines and with a group that is willing to keep an eye on verbal manners with each other, the question slowly becomes to Web Site Owners, why am I beating my brains out to help the Me Now Generation when that same generation doesn’t return basic, common courtesies of speech? Web Sites should be user friendly and most are, but News Groups should not enter those sites and then demean years of hard work that brings joy to tens of thousands of people with a simple demeaning hit of the return key.  We all are judged by our words.  The days of yore were much more user friendly until the college nerds started entering fly fishing without knowing years of our previous history, but that is another story. Marketing is like a balancing act.  If you trip on that high wire, the fall could kill you.  The same goes for News Groups. Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/ Latest Updates

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [Blah blah] Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/ Latest Updates I couln’t agree more george. Let’s take your site as an example. You have several addresses all short sweet and related to fly fishing. Yet when you look at the site there really is very little content. However, you freely post you wealth of information on public news groups. Forget about bamboo rods. you’re sitting on a gold mine and you don’t even know it. Spend some time and build your web site. If you build it they will come. All those pairs of eyes and for every pair of eyes that go to your site you can collect advertizing revenues (from complementary products not competing ones).

_______  Thank you for the thoughtful suggestion and advisement. However; David Ion and I are currently doing a massive site update and installing our new SHOPPING CREEL program, which by the way will be available to any other Dealers interested in a clean, e-commerce solution for their web site.  They will also be able to order all site programs we use via the new SHOPPING CREEL.  Per  your exact thoughts, I choose to follow your advice.  FEED ME! Expound more please.  We are kicking butt on a daily basis and we are working until past 0300 AM every day.  We are getting about 5 hours a sleep a day.  Our coding is as good as it can get. Again, thank you Salmon_fly. Mr. G. & I The next thing you know your site’s hit rate will make Amazon’s look like a stale link. Take it public and Gherke will be known in every household in the world. Then the ROFFians can look back and say we knew him when. TImes a wasting get to work. Before you buy.

– http://www.gink.com/ Latest Updates

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,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,  ;-)  ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [Blah blah] Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/ Latest Updates I couln’t agree more george. Let’s take your site as an example. You have several addresses all short sweet and related to fly fishing. Yet when you look at the site there really is very little content. However, you freely post you wealth of information on public news groups. Forget about bamboo rods. you’re sitting on a gold mine and you don’t even know it. Spend some time and build your web site. If you build it they will come. All those pairs of eyes and for every pair of eyes that go to your site you can collect advertizing revenues (from complementary products not competing ones). _______  Thank you for the thoughtful suggestion and advisement. However; David Ion and I are currently doing a massive site update and installing our new SHOPPING CREEL program, which by the way will be available to any other Dealers interested in a clean, e-commerce solution for their web site.  They will also be able to order all site programs we use via the new SHOPPING CREEL.  Per  your exact thoughts, I choose to follow your advice.  FEED ME! Expound more please.  We are kicking butt on a daily basis and we are working until past 0300 AM every day.  We are getting about 5 hours a sleep a day.  Our coding is as good as it can get. Again, thank you Salmon_fly. Mr. G. & I The next thing you know your site’s hit rate will make Amazon’s look like a stale link. Take it public and Gherke will be known in every household in the world. Then the ROFFians can look back and say we knew him when. TImes a wasting get to work. Before you buy.

Harry Mason www.troutflies.com

Response:

Dave LaCourse wrote Planeties writes: by the way every place you used the word " then " it should have been " than ". LOL.  He has been told that numerous time, Bob.  He doesn’t understand the difference.

Well than.  Maybe their’s less diffrince then you think! —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

Party time. How nice. You’ve invited SPAM Luncheon Meat to your party. What’s that? It’s a SPAM Party. Well then, you’ll want a SPAM Party Pack. It’s got everything you need to give your party a distinctive SPAM flavor. Everything, that is, except SPAM, which of course can easily be found at your local fishing newsgroup. The SPAM Party Pack serves 12. Cost: $39, plus a shipping and handling charge of $7. Pack includes:                                             SPAM invitations.                                             SPAM paper tablecloth.                                             SPAM paper napkins.                                             SPAM plastic ware.                                             SPAM paper plates.                                             SPAM balloons.                                             SPAM plastic serving tray.                                             SPAM plastic stadium cups.                                             SPAM pennant.                                             SPAM recipe book.                                             And, just for you, a SPAM apron. SPAM Party Packs.                                        No. of SPAM Party                                        Amount enclosed: ($39 ea + $7.00 shipping/handling)                                        Email                                        Payment type: (check one)                                        _____ Check                                        _____ Credit Card (Visa, Mastercard, Discover)                                        Credit Card Type:_____(Visa) _____(MC)                                        _____(Disc.)                                        Credit Card                                        Credit Card                                        Expiration                                        Mail this form with payment to:                                        SPAM Party Pack                                        Gift Center                                        1 Hormel Place                                        Austin, MN 55912 — Levi Life is anything that dies when you stomp on it.                                                         — Dave Barry

Response:

Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/ Latest Updates

muchpreachy drivel snipped. with you george it’s "do as i say and not as i do".by the way every place you used the word " then " it should have been " than ". tick tick tick, Bob Before you buy.

Response:

[Blah blah] Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/ Latest Updates

I couln’t agree more george. Let’s take your site as an example. You have several addresses all short sweet and related to fly fishing. Yet when you look at the site there really is very little content. However, you freely post you wealth of information on public news groups. Forget about bamboo rods. you’re sitting on a gold mine and you don’t even know it. Spend some time and build your web site. If you build it they will come. All those pairs of eyes and for every pair of eyes that go to your site you can collect advertizing revenues (from complementary products not competing ones). The next thing you know your site’s hit rate will make Amazon’s look like a stale link. Take it public and Gherke will be known in every household in the world. Then the ROFFians can look back and say we knew him when. TImes a wasting get to work. Before you buy.

Response:

dot shit ? — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

Planeties writes: by the way every place you used the word " then " it should have been " than ".

LOL.  He has been told that numerous time, Bob.  He doesn’t understand the difference. Dave L.

Response:

dot shit ? — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

got gink?

Response:

Question:

Maybe a foolish question but i wonder if there are river maps available? The US Corps of Engineers publishes inexpensive river charts for the navigable river systems under their control. Most areas also have cruising guides available. — Skipper

Depending upon which Corps of Engineers Region you’re in you can get maps from http://www.usace.army.mil/         —Hutch * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Hello, I live on Crooked River in SE Georgia. I found a map (of sorts) at a Flyfishing shop. It isn’t "exact" and at least in the case of this river, it changes somewhat because of the flow of the river – we have tides because of being so close to the ocean – and there is continual changes in sand bars, etc. But the chart is certainly better than nothing and gives good views of major inlets, marshes, etc. So you might want to check out some Flyfishing shops in your area. Regards, liz Maybe a foolish question but i wonder if there are river maps available? The US Corps of Engineers publishes inexpensive river charts for the navigable river systems under their control. Most areas also have cruising guides available. — Skipper

Before you buy.

Response:

Maybe a foolish question but i wonder if there are river maps available?

The US Corps of Engineers publishes inexpensive river charts for the navigable river systems under their control. Most areas also have cruising guides available. — Skipper

Response:

Question:

Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

My wife Kate, is currently making one for my son Brandon.  She got a pattern from the sewing shop, and is using my Colombia as an inspiration for modifications to the pattern (like mesh and grommet on the pockets, etc.). She is also using Supplex instead of the cotton material the pattern spec’d.  I thought it would be a better idea for drying. HTH, Brian

Response:

They don’t scream as loud as flies do. Hm…..sort of makes me wonder about the ethics of amputating limbs from captive trees.  I don’t suppose anyone out there has an opinion on this do they?

– Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                          Tom McGuane

Response:

Willi, I have designed several fly fishing vests/shirts (not commercially, but for myself). I did the "engineering", my poor wife the sewing. One tip I have is to carefully consider how the load will be carried and distributed after the pockets are filled. If there is too much weight in the pockets in the front, the vest pulls down in front around your neck…very uncomfortable.

I have struggled for years to find a vest I liked. Bob’s point about a loaded vest digging into the back of your neck is quite true. Why do the makers invariably cut the necks of vests so high? Why do they put collars on the bloody things? Vest are supposed to be load carrying. It’s what they’re for. Moreover, the front bottom pockets are where most people want to carry stuff. It seems that very few vest manufacturers have grasped this fundamental design requirement. Some years ago I bought a Columbia Henry’s Fork vest (remember those bloody irritating adverts about ‘Ma’ knowing best and kicking arse if things weren’t just right, etc.). It cost a fortune having it shipped from the US, paying VAT and duty, etc. That bastard always left me with a sore, stiff neck. The Velcro on the pocket flaps matched nicely when the vest was hanging flat and empty in the closet, but didn’t when anything even slightly fat was put into the pockets. The following are my tips to any would be vest designer/maker, based on years of disappointment. 1. Go for fewer, better designed pockets, especially the big ones on the front bottom. Resist the temptation to include as many pockets as possible. More is NOT better! 2. Cut the neck low. 3. Make sure the pocket closures are designed for FILLED pockets. 4. Choose a material that is light, tough and strong and QUICK DRYING, rather than waterproof. 5. Use all plastic zippers (A friend recently gave me his old Sage ‘Strap vest’. It had been used in the sea and the YKK metal zippers had corroded badly). 6. Unless you really spend a lot of time wading very deep,  longer vests are more comfortable to wear: you feel less like Dolly Parton wearing them. My penny’orth Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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6. Unless you really spend a lot of time wading very deep,  longer vests are more comfortable to wear: you feel less like Dolly Parton wearing them.

I have no choice about what kind of vest I get.  I have to get the short vest or it will go past my massive ass.  I’m sorter than the other guy. However, I’m sure short men or ladies also need the short vest due to physical stature.  Very unlike sex, longer is not always better. Vern

Response:

…I don’t remember the pattern number but if you have trouble finding it I believe I still have it around somewhere and can look it up….

Just did an on line search and came up with the following.  This is the pattern I used.  #2198- men’s sport vest. http://www.kwiksew.com/Patterns/_Cat_North/Frame.htm Good luck!

Response:

What has ROFF turned into!?!?  Some sort of girly-man group?  Let’s all get out our needles and thread now!

It’s a balance thing Jon.  This Saturday I plan to take Becky out in the fields and teach her to kick shit.  Sunday we bake bread and do the Trick or Treat thing.  The next weekend is devoted to killing things and then we move on to bonsai.  :)

Response:

: What has ROFF turned into!?!?  Some sort of girly-man group?  Let’s all : get out our needles and thread now! : : : It’s a balance thing Jon.  This Saturday I plan to take Becky out in the fields and teach her to : kick shit.  Sunday we bake bread and do the Trick or Treat thing.  The next weekend is devoted to : killing things and then we move on to bonsai.  :) In my case: bonsai = killing things (poor little tree never had a fighting chance we me wielding the clippers)

Response:

In my case: bonsai = killing things (poor little tree never had a fighting chance we me wielding the clippers)

Hm…..sort of makes me wonder about the ethics of amputating limbs from captive trees.  I don’t suppose anyone out there has an opinion on this do they?

Response:

Hm…..sort of makes me wonder about the ethics of amputating limbs from captive trees.  I don’t suppose anyone out there has an opinion on this do they?

Depends on if you eat the limb or not. — Charlie…

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: What has ROFF turned into!?!?  Some sort of girly-man group?  Let’s all : get out our needles and thread now!

Really…we gonna fish or we gonna sew ? (Mine has darts !) — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

Response:

Willi, I made a vest.  I always wanted one made from Blue Denim, sort of like a Levi Denim Jacket without sleeves.  I just used a vest I had and drew a pattern on some paper.  Then I laid out the things I wanted to carry and figured out the places and size for the pockets. The pockets all have Velcro closures.  It came out good and I have worn it for years.  I also made a tent, it was a lot of fun. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

Response:

Somehow I had a feeling Ernie was going to answer saying he’d made his own vest. My hat goes off to you. Steve Zimmerman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Willi, I made a vest Ernie Harrison

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Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

I made several vests. I was ultimately satisfied with none of them  although my brother and a couple of other people still use them ). I went back to a custom made fishing jacket. With far too many pockets ! TL MC

Response:

Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.

I made a vest while a grad student; I was too poor to buy one.  That was about 1956.  I used it till 1996.   It was still in good condition but I decided to treat myself to a new one. The trick is to plan ahead very carefully, so that you can sew the pockets on the inside the and outside without  interference. vince norris  The one I have now is close to – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

Response:

Willi, I have designed several fly fishing vests/shirts (not commercially, but for myself). I did the "engineering", my poor wife the sewing. One tip I have is to carefully consider how the load will be carried and distributed after the pockets are filled. If there is too much weight in the pockets in the front, the vest pulls down in front around your neck…very uncomfortable. Also, it can be a challenge getting the best waterproof materials. Good luck. Bob Elliott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

Response:

Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits.

Willi; I have made several vests using a Kwik Sew pattern.  The pattern is for a general purpose vest, not specifically for fishing.  But if you’re good enough with a sewing machine to make your own you won’t have any trouble modifying it to suit your needs.  I use my vest for hunting so the pockets outlined in the pattern are sufficient for my needs.  It won’t be much trouble to add a few more if you like.  this pattern is also too long for a good fishing vest but again, it should be easy enough to shorten.  I don’t remember the pattern number but if you have trouble finding it I believe I still have it around somewhere and can look it up.

Response:

Yeah Charlie, but it was before she was famous. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Somehow I had a feeling Ernie was going to answer saying he’d made his own vest. My hat goes off to you. Hell, Ernie made Martha Stewart once<g. — Charlie…

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Question:

I’ll cook up some wild rice the night before along with a chiffonnade of whatever root vegetables October brings to market in that part of North Carolina and we’ll have a proper feast. A dry reisling would be good but I’m not slavish to the notion of white’s with fish. My latest "find", and all my "finds" are under $15, is the 1996 Syrah from Lonetree winery. Highly recommended and perfect for a crisp fall lunch of fresh trout in the Smokies. http://www.lonetreewine.com/ http://winetoday.com/reviews/0002241.html — Ken Fortenberry

Uhh, Ken how come you only brought Bud when PJ and I accompanied the two of you?  Four’s a crowd?    The next hike up Snowbird better include all the fixin’s.  :) Peter

Response:

peter…you mean you didn’t get any of the coq-au-vin ken whipped up trailside on snowbird?  he assured me he was going to save some for you and pj…the white wine wasn’t that good, so you didn’t miss much there. jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll cook up some wild rice the night before along with a chiffonnade of whatever root vegetables October brings to market in that part of North Carolina and we’ll have a proper feast. A dry reisling would be good but I’m not slavish to the notion of white’s with fish. My latest "find", and all my "finds" are under $15, is the 1996 Syrah from Lonetree winery. Highly recommended and perfect for a crisp fall lunch of fresh trout in the Smokies. http://www.lonetreewine.com/ http://winetoday.com/reviews/0002241.html — Ken Fortenberry Uhh, Ken how come you only brought Bud when PJ and I accompanied the two of you?  Four’s a crowd?    The next hike up Snowbird better include all the fixin’s.  :) Peter

Response:

Uhh, Ken how come you only brought Bud when PJ and I accompanied the two of you?  

As you recall, I was trying to "be like Mike" and had the grandmother of all hangovers that day. Bud, and as it happens Wild Turkey and screaming suicidal death rides, are therapeutic in such cases, food definitely is not. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Max, Would a fly fishing rod that I can collapse (to fit in or tie to a backpack) just be a waste of time, or would I not notice much difference while casting?

Collapsable rods are a joke for fly fishing.  If you _must_ have compactness, get a 3 or 4 piece fly rod.  But, before you spend the bucks for that, try a trip with your regular 2-pc rod. My backpack has "ski-sleeves" behind the side pockets and I’ve found that I can easily carry an 8 or 9 foot, 2-pc rod with no inconvenience. Has anyone every used these?  Would it be a good backpacking/fly fishing tactic to use a set of these with a set of thin hip waders?

Try a pair of neoprene socks over flyweight waders — and a pair of Tevas.   Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same outing?

Butter Salt Pepper Lemon juice Aluminum foil My first fly fishing experience was on a backpacking trip to some high Sierra lakes.  Having absolutely no confidence in my ability to catch fish, we packed in a full supply of food. Three days later, we packed out our full supply of food — except for the butter, salt, pepper, lemon juice and aluminum foil.  We’d lucked onto a lake full of brookies on the brink of overpopulation. Absolutely gorged on them. If you expect there’ll still be a fair amount of snow around, add some zip-lock bags, chopped onion & bell peppers and lime juice.  Dice your fish. Mix it with the onion & peppers. Put the mixture in a zip-lock and add plenty of lime juice.  Bury it in a snow bank for several hours.  The French call this raw fish preparation ceviche.  Mmmmm, mmmmm! Wes Peterson

Response:

 The French call this raw fish preparation ceviche.  

What a coincidence ! That’s EXACTLY what the Mexicans call it. — Ken Fortenberry

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 The French call this raw fish preparation ceviche. What a coincidence ! That’s EXACTLY what the Mexicans call it. — Ken Fortenberry

Ken, When I was in Venezuela, the told me it was Peruvian, when I was in Peru, they told me it was Venezuelan. Who knows? Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC I shall be telling this with a sigh Somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I- I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference.             Robert Frost (1874-1963)

Response:

I backpack a lot, and I have recently become addicted to fly fishing.  I would love to integrate the two activities in the same outing.  I have seen the rods that you can collapse.  I have used these types of rods with spinner fishing.  I know that the rod is more important in fly fishing than spinner fishing. Would a fly fishing rod that I can collapse (to fit in or tie to a backpack) just be a waste of time, or would I not notice much difference while casting?

Sage makes some great 5-piece rods, but they’re very expensive. I have a 5-piece 5-weight SP and I love it. Typical of Sage rods, it’s very stiff, but I really couldn’t tell any difference between a 5-piece and a 4-piece. They come with a extra tip, a beautiful, light-weight, 25-inch-long, aluminum rod case, and a lifetime guarantee. One nice thing about these rods is that you can fit them in your carry-on luggage. Sometimes, though, I just take my 2-piece 9-foot Walton Powell and use the PVC rod case as a walking stick! As for wading, if I don’t plan to wade wet I pack my Patagonia breathable waders and lightweight boots. Together, they weigh maybe 3 pounds. Another good investment, if you plan to fish backcountry lakes, would be a lightweight float tube. Bill Kiene recommended the Wood River line to me, and I really like the one I bought — the Summer Breeze model. With a float tube you’re talking about some significant weight, but it’s reasonable for short, easy trips. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

 With Ghee and a light dusting of the flour you can cook up trout meuniere. Hope this helps. — Ken Fortenberry

…ok, ken…fallball…let’s hike the road to nowhere above Noland…you bring the gourmet cookin stuff and i’ll bring…the wine…uh, i’ll also try to catch some trout…looking forward to a streamside meal from chef fortenberry. jeff (in watauga county preparin for an afternoon trout stalkin)

Response:

0] : I backpack a lot, and I have recently become addicted to fly fishing.  I : would love to integrate the two activities in the same outing.  I have seen : the rods that you can collapse.  I have used these types of rods with : spinner fishing.  I know that the rod is more important in fly fishing than : spinner fishing. : Would a fly fishing rod that I can collapse (to fit in or tie to a backpack) : just be a waste of time, or would I not notice much difference while : casting? : I have seen plastic stockings that are designed to fit over a shoe or boot, : and keep the shoes and feet dry.  These were really lightweight, but I’m not : sure if they work. : Has anyone every used these?  Would it be a good backpacking/fly fishing : tactic to use a set of these with a set of thin hip waders? : Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same : outing? : thanks : Max A lot of rods, perhaps most, from most manufacturers come in 2, 3, and 4 piece versions so you should be able to find a satisfactory rod in your price range. Collapsible rods are junk. The solution I like for wading in the back country is thin hippers with dive booties pulled over them, preferably the kind of booties that dont have zippers. A fanny pack makes a pretty good substitute for a vest. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

Response:

you bring the gourmet cookin stuff and i’ll bring…the wine…uh, i’ll also try to catch some trout…

Four miles up Noland from the "road to nowhere" at the confluence of Mill Creek is the abandoned town of Solola Valley. The park service has put in an outhouse, some picnic tables and a hitchin’ rack for those that use horses. We can hike up to Solola Valley, fish the rest of the morning then repair to one of the picnic tables for a streamside lunch. I’ll cook up some wild rice the night before along with a chiffonnade of whatever root vegetables October brings to market in that part of North Carolina and we’ll have a proper feast. A dry reisling would be good but I’m not slavish to the notion of white’s with fish. My latest "find", and all my "finds" are under $15, is the 1996 Syrah from Lonetree winery. Highly recommended and perfect for a crisp fall lunch of fresh trout in the Smokies. http://www.lonetreewine.com/ http://winetoday.com/reviews/0002241.html — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I’ll cook up some wild rice the night before along with a chiffonnade of whatever root vegetables October brings to market in that part of North Carolina and we’ll have a proper feast. A dry reisling would be good but I’m not slavish to the notion of white’s with fish. My latest "find", and all my "finds" are under $15, is the 1996 Syrah from Lonetree winery. Highly recommended and perfect for a crisp fall lunch of fresh trout in the Smokies.

        goddammit, forty, if you were a chick, i’d leave home for you. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -http://www.lonetreewine.com/ http://winetoday.com/reviews/0002241.html — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

alright!!!  …reserve a place at the picnic table for me. everyone other than the chef ought to carry at least one bottle of wine for a proper solola valley wine tasting and trout cook…but, if the smokies scotch tasting was a forecast (or backcast) of events, we might need a horse or two to get out of the valley… jeff   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you bring the gourmet cookin stuff and i’ll bring…the wine…uh, i’ll also try to catch some trout… Four miles up Noland from the "road to nowhere" at the confluence of Mill Creek is the abandoned town of Solola Valley. The park service has put in an outhouse, some picnic tables and a hitchin’ rack for those that use horses. We can hike up to Solola Valley, fish the rest of the morning then repair to one of the picnic tables for a streamside lunch. I’ll cook up some wild rice the night before along with a chiffonnade of whatever root vegetables October brings to market in that part of North Carolina and we’ll have a proper feast. A dry reisling would be good but I’m not slavish to the notion of white’s with fish. My latest "find", and all my "finds" are under $15, is the 1996 Syrah from Lonetree winery. Highly recommended and perfect for a crisp fall lunch of fresh trout in the Smokies. http://www.lonetreewine.com/ http://winetoday.com/reviews/0002241.html — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I backpack a lot, and I have recently become addicted to fly fishing. … Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same outing? Multi piece rods are the way to go. Collapsibles are junk. Get a good 3 or 4 piece rod appropriate for the streams you’ll fish. I’ve heard recommendations here for St. Croix & Cabela’s in the moderate price range, I’m partial to a 3 piece Winston. Leave the vest at home and consolidate flies, leader(s), tippet spool(s), nail clipper, hook hone and thermometer into two pocket size containers. Get a fishing shirt in a neutral color that has two big front pockets with button down flaps big enough to accomodate the two containers mentioned above. For wading I use Teva sandals with a neoprene sock over a silk liner sock and "miracle pants", those nylon hiking/outdoor pants that dry almost instantly. Go to the Indian food store and get a jar of Ghee. It’s clarified butter at a fraction of the price of the backpacker variety. Put some in a small unbreakable container and put that and a bit of flour in with your cook kit. With Ghee and a light dusting of the flour you can cook up trout meuniere.

Agree entirely with the additional suggestions of using a fanny pack.  Not the expensive "fly-fishing" fanny packs that Sage/Simms/et al sell, just some generic one.  And that it’s easy enough to make your own Ghee.  The stuff never spoils so you never have to worry about refrigeration or the heat.  Add a couple spices to your flour ahead of time and you’re good to go. Speaking of which…      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

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[snip] I’ve heard recommendations here for St. Croix & Cabela’s in the moderate price range, I’m partial to a 3 piece Winston.

Forty, your predilection for lousy beer is well countered by your taste for fine rods. /daytripper ;^)

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‘grats guys…jeez wine in the apps…. guess ya’ll be geetin sohhffttt… me? ‘morrow…hungover…fishin’ the most beautifil water in the world with pals (wish you were heh) and enjoying this fine art to the fullest… waldo… on the sun spine of g’fatha alright!!!  …reserve a place at the picnic table for me. everyone other than the chef ought to carry at least one bottle of wine for a proper solola valley wine tasting and trout cook…but, if the smokies scotch tasting was a forecast (or backcast) of events, we might need a horse or two to get out of the valley… I don’t have a horse but I expect I could waddle my fat butt up there and *maybe* back<g. Sounds like a great picnic plan. — Charlie…

– Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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walt…hah, no doubt marie must be off the mountain visiting somewhere…it’s past one in the morning, yer well-oiled, acting independent and "manlike",and bangin away on the computer. damn, i’m envious. …if you come along in october, you can use the most excellent wine we’ll be bringin as a chaser for yer wine alternatives – you know, that stuff bottled down in the hollars in mason ("Masson"??) jars, dripped fresh from the coils – actually, you and i probably could use a dip in the "couth" tank from time to time <G. jeff (i’ll not whine before it’s time) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ‘grats guys…jeez wine in the apps…. guess ya’ll be geetin sohhffttt… me? ‘morrow…hungover…fishin’ the most beautifil water in the world with pals (wish you were heh) and enjoying this fine art to the fullest… waldo… on the sun spine of g’fatha alright!!!  …reserve a place at the picnic table for me. everyone other than the chef ought to carry at least one bottle of wine for a proper solola valley wine tasting and trout cook…but, if the smokies scotch tasting was a forecast (or backcast) of events, we might need a horse or two to get out of the valley… I don’t have a horse but I expect I could waddle my fat butt up there and *maybe* back<g. Sounds like a great picnic plan. — Charlie… — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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        goddammit, forty, if you were a chick, i’d leave home for you. wayno

ROTFLMAO, Wayno Mark Faulkner

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Would a fly fishing rod that I can collapse (to fit in or tie to a backpack) just be a waste of time, or would I not notice much difference while casting?

There are a LOT of multi-piece flyrods that pack down to very managable sizes.  I’ve got a 5pc. Scott rod that can fit INSIDE my daypack and it cost about $200 on clearance.  You don’t need the most expensive rod, just a good tool for the task. Alpine trout do tend to be greedier and so the massive fly selection is not necessary.  Adames, Humpies, mosquitos, Coachmens, Terrestrials (especially ants) keep me in fish all day.  A few nymphs never hurt. I have seen plastic stockings that are designed to fit over a shoe or boot, and keep the shoes and feet dry.  These were really lightweight, but I’m not sure if they work. Has anyone every used these?  Would it be a good backpacking/fly fishing tactic to use a set of these with a set of thin hip waders?

Thin waders, then the bootie, then your Tevas or ratty converse tennies.  If like in the Eastern Sierra, you’re fishing small streams to spooky trout, I spend most of the time on my knees anyway. Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same outing?

It’s not really that much more stuff to bring.  I started lugging less camera gear and my load lightened immensely. Good Luck Bob

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It’s not really that much more stuff to bring.  I started lugging less camera gear and my load lightened immensely.

Amen about the camera gear. Now I just take disposable cameras. One panoramic and one a normal field-of-view camera. If I’m rafting or doing risky wading I’ll take a waterproof disposable. Actually, you can soak a non-waterproof disposable and the exposed shots will develop fine, as long as the film is dried out before processing. Forget about the rest of the roll, though. The quality of the photos is fine, especially if you’re just going to scan them into a relatively low-resolution digital format. — something bogus to avoid spam)

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For wading I use Teva sandals with a neoprene sock over a silk liner sock and "miracle pants", those nylon hiking/outdoor pants that dry almost instantly.

That’s almost exactly what I do.. although the cold Sierra lakes that I backpack to make it tough to stay in too long.. Go to the Indian food store and get a jar of Ghee. It’s clarified butter at a fraction of the price of the backpacker variety.

That’s EXACTLY what I do.. but, of course, I also pack in a couple of lemons and my own seasoning too.  Worth the weight.. — -Mark/Particle Salad Particle Salad/Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad

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Backpacking is the ONLY way to fly!  :) I have a 4-piece rod that I take apart and simply tie to one of the side metal frame pieces of my external frame pack.  I’ve never had trouble, but I wouldn’t take my best rod.. I have a Fenwick spin/fly rod that I take on trips like these so I can reach farther out in the lake (I haven’t packed a float tube yet, though have been considering it lately). My advice.. do it, you won’t regret it! -Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I backpack a lot, and I have recently become addicted to fly fishing.  I would love to integrate the two activities in the same outing.  I have seen the rods that you can collapse.  I have used these types of rods with spinner fishing.  I know that the rod is more important in fly fishing than spinner fishing. Would a fly fishing rod that I can collapse (to fit in or tie to a backpack) just be a waste of time, or would I not notice much difference while casting? I have seen plastic stockings that are designed to fit over a shoe or boot, and keep the shoes and feet dry.  These were really lightweight, but I’m not sure if they work. Has anyone every used these?  Would it be a good backpacking/fly fishing tactic to use a set of these with a set of thin hip waders? Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same outing? thanks Max

– -Mark/Particle Salad Particle Salad/Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad

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<snip Hi Max; Multiple piece rods are fairly popular for backpacking but I’ve always found them somewhat unsatisfactory.  The more pieces you have, the more likely it is that the thing will come apart while casting.  Multiple joints also affect the action of the rod.  I have often carried a standard two piece rod while backpacking and had very little trouble with it.  A 4 1/2 ft. rod case will sometimes catch on low branches or other obstructions but in my experience it has not happened often enough to be considered a major problem. On short trips where weight was not a major consideration I have carried light weight waders and boots.  While this is a very comfortable way to fish I don’t consider the comfort worth the extra weight or space on longer or more arduous trips.  In such cases I bring a pair of Rock Socks or other light weight footwear and wade wet, but I wade wet a lot anyway.  I have found that I’m comfortable in colder water than most of the people I have fished with, so you’ll have to judge for yourself how viable this option is for you. Tight Lines!

Response:

I backpack a lot, and I have recently become addicted to fly fishing. … Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same outing?

Multi piece rods are the way to go. Collapsibles are junk. Get a good 3 or 4 piece rod appropriate for the streams you’ll fish. I’ve heard recommendations here for St. Croix & Cabela’s in the moderate price range, I’m partial to a 3 piece Winston. Leave the vest at home and consolidate flies, leader(s), tippet spool(s), nail clipper, hook hone and thermometer into two pocket size containers. Get a fishing shirt in a neutral color that has two big front pockets with button down flaps big enough to accomodate the two containers mentioned above. For wading I use Teva sandals with a neoprene sock over a silk liner sock and "miracle pants", those nylon hiking/outdoor pants that dry almost instantly. Go to the Indian food store and get a jar of Ghee. It’s clarified butter at a fraction of the price of the backpacker variety. Put some in a small unbreakable container and put that and a bit of flour in with your cook kit. With Ghee and a light dusting of the flour you can cook up trout meuniere. Hope this helps. — Ken Fortenberry

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I backpack a lot, and I have recently become addicted to fly fishing.  I would love to integrate the two activities in the same outing.  I have seen the rods that you can collapse.  I have used these types of rods with spinner fishing.  I know that the rod is more important in fly fishing than spinner fishing. Would a fly fishing rod that I can collapse (to fit in or tie to a backpack) just be a waste of time, or would I not notice much difference while casting? I have seen plastic stockings that are designed to fit over a shoe or boot, and keep the shoes and feet dry.  These were really lightweight, but I’m not sure if they work. Has anyone every used these?  Would it be a good backpacking/fly fishing tactic to use a set of these with a set of thin hip waders? Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same outing? thanks Max

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Generally, the ferrule of the rod is stiffer so you may notice the rod has a stiffer action (based on 3 or 4 pieces).  One thing I’ve learned from experience (and I know I will have a lot of opposition here) is that the old fiberglass rods are much more durable than the new graphite rods.  Reason being if your graphite rod drops and hits a rock, you can shatter it and not know it until you take a cast and the rod breaks in half!  Fiberglass doesn’t have this problem.  As an FYI, I’ve also performed the sinful task of attaching a spinning real to the fly rod – works really well if you want options on a trip! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I backpack a lot, and I have recently become addicted to fly fishing.  I would love to integrate the two activities in the same outing.  I have seen the rods that you can collapse.  I have used these types of rods with spinner fishing.  I know that the rod is more important in fly fishing than spinner fishing. Would a fly fishing rod that I can collapse (to fit in or tie to a backpack) just be a waste of time, or would I not notice much difference while casting? I have seen plastic stockings that are designed to fit over a shoe or boot, and keep the shoes and feet dry.  These were really lightweight, but I’m not sure if they work. Has anyone every used these?  Would it be a good backpacking/fly fishing tactic to use a set of these with a set of thin hip waders? Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same outing? thanks Max

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Question:

Hi  I would like to know what licenses I need for flyfishing in Finnmark, Norway??

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Hi  I would like to know what licenses I need for flyfishing in Finnmark, Norway??

Try this URL: http://www.flyshop.no — Esa Niemel

Question:

I’m heading to Big St. Germaine, WI (above Rhinelander, near Eagle River) in July and would like some information regarding fly fishing streams and lakes in the area.  Does anyone know if an FFF or TU chapter exists the the North Woods of Wisconsin?  Is there a shop I could contact.  How about guides in this area.  I’m a saltwater fly fisher and this will be only my second attempt at creek/stream fishing.  Any patterns that I should try in the summer months.  I’m a fairly adept tyer.  Thanks for the help.

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I’m heading to Big St. Germaine, WI (above Rhinelander, near Eagle River) in July and would like some information regarding fly fishing streams and lakes in the area.  Does anyone know if an FFF or TU chapter exists the the North Woods of Wisconsin?  Is there a shop I could contact.  How about guides in this area.  I’m a saltwater fly fisher and this will be only my second attempt at creek/stream fishing.  Any patterns that I should try in the summer months.  I’m a fairly adept tyer.  Thanks for the help.

Hmmm.  Lots of lakes.  (LOTS of lakes.)  Lots of streams.  A mixture of cold and warm water fisheries.  Take lots of Wooly Buggers in black, white, olive and dark olive.  The Wisconsin fly fishing page lists all the trout streams in the state.  There are too many lakes in the area to even start a list. My plan was to rig up with an olive WB then walk in a straight line till I hit water.  (Usually no more than 200′.) JC

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Question:

Hi, I was wondering if the color of the line really mattered? that’s all, bye (no need to e-mail me, share with the world too)

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I am new to fly tying and am looking for inexpensive grizzly saddle hackle for saltwater flies. If you know of a great mail-order house or local store that is worth checking out prices, email me or post. Thanks.

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Hi, I was wondering if the color of the line really mattered? that’s all, bye (no need to e-mail me, share with the world too)

Of course it matters, to the fisherman.  I’ve never seen a trout take a flyline or reject one.  Seems to be most important to color blind males and nymph fishermen who are to vain to admit to using strike indicators.

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(Scott Pendell) writes: Hi, I was wondering if the color of the line really mattered? that’s all, bye

Scott, I recently purchased a Cortland Glo-Line in sort of a flourescent red/orange.  I have caught several large trout with it, and hooked (but not landed yet) several large Steelhead.  All of which leads me to think that line color may not be much of a factor.

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Almost every flyshop (local or mail order) will have inexpensive hackle of all types. Yes, they are great for saltwater and other flies where size and stiffness are not critical. After some experience with that, high quality hackle makes good sense if the flies you are tying demand it. Don’t forget, ask your fly shop employees for help! They’ve been there too.

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Hi, I was wondering if the color of the line really mattered? that’s all, bye

There is some exceptional work done by Brian Clarke and John Goddard in their book "The Trout and the Fly".   Using underwater photography they took shots of lines over the water (being cast) and on the water.  They showed that dark colored lines and very light colored lines showed up most during the cast — these line contrasted most against the back ground of the sky.  There is also some great — and surprising — pictures of the visibility of leader line on the water. I think once the line is in the water, that color doesn’t matter much.  The line shouldn’t be that close to the fish to matter.  Indeed, part of the purpose of the leader is to divorce the fly from the fly line. — Richard Nelson Spokane, Wa. "Its not that life is so short, its that death is sooo long."  

Question:

I am looking into the purchase of a sea kayak for use in flyfishing.  I plan on fishing from the kayak for large fish, the kind that take 5-8 lbs. of pressure to land (doesn’t sound like much but believe me!). Does anyone with experience with available types of sea kayaks have recommendations regarding kayak length, materials composition, one- versus two-person models, paddle types, etc.?  I’m dealing with winds of 10-15 knots and 9-ft. flyrods. Sorry to ask such a general question.  Advice on any of the above subjects would be sincerely appreciated. Marshall Cutchin

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: I am looking into the purchase of a sea kayak for use in flyfishing.  I : plan on fishing from the kayak for large fish, the kind that take 5-8 lbs. : of pressure to land (doesn’t sound like much but believe me!). : Does anyone with experience with available types of sea kayaks have : recommendations regarding kayak length, materials composition, one- versus : two-person models, paddle types, etc.?  I’m dealing with winds of 10-15 : knots and 9-ft. flyrods. : Sorry to ask such a general question.  Advice on any of the above subjects : would be sincerely appreciated. : Marshall Cutchin *** Amongst the fiberglass models .. the Current Designs Pieces is excellent for fishing although the MOST STABLE KAYAK FOR FISHING is still a double Klepper!

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