Question:

Scott was supposed to come with me but he had been out partying the night before and the groaning coming from the other room, spoke to his state of incapacitation. I thought the ROFFian method says to hand him a bottle of Wild Turkey, scream ‘Drink or Die, mother f*er’, haul his butt into the fishing car and careen wildly to the river.

What can I say, I forgot.  Does this mean I have to send back my decoder ring? Peter the worried

Response:

Scott was supposed to come with me but he had been out partying the night before … I thought the ROFFian method says to hand him a bottle of Wild Turkey, scream ‘Drink or Die, mother f*er’, haul his butt into the fishing car and careen wildly to the river.

But you’re forgetting that Scott, taking after his mother’s side of the family, is WAY too smart to be a ROFFian. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Scott was supposed to come with me but he had been out partying the night before … I thought the ROFFian method says to hand him a bottle of Wild Turkey, scream ‘Drink or Die, mother f*er’, haul his butt into the fishing car and careen wildly to the river. But you’re forgetting that Scott, taking after his mother’s side of the family, is WAY too smart to be a ROFFian.

That and the fact his dad likes to keep him away from influences that will lead him into a life of debauchery.  He can find his own way.  :) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Scott was supposed to come with me but he had been out partying the night before and the groaning coming from the other room, spoke to his state of incapacitation.

I thought the ROFFian method says to hand him a bottle of Wild Turkey, scream ‘Drink or Die, mother f*er’, haul his butt into the fishing car and careen wildly to the river.

Response:

Scott was supposed to come with me but he had been out partying the night before and the groaning coming from the other room, spoke to his state of incapacitation. I thought the ROFFian method says to hand him a bottle of Wild Turkey, scream ‘Drink or Die, mother f*er’, haul his butt into the fishing car and careen wildly to the river.

    ah, stan, ol’ boy, you will soon learn more than you ever wanted to know concerning the rather brusque nature of interaction techniques displayed by the subject of that little anecdote.     let’s just say that no one has ever called him "gentleman jim" roberts. your friend in the old north state wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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or how to screw up your first day on the Grand and still catch some fish. Scott was supposed to come with me but he had been out partying the night before and the groaning coming from the other room, spoke to his state of incapacitation.  I had put my stuff together the night before, just before I hit the sack.  This was going to be the first Grand trip after a season of steelheading so everything had to be dragged out of drawers, closets and rearranged. Six weights seemed to be a good idea to chuck some large perch streamers at the top end of the Grand.  It had been blown out by earlier rains so I was counting on high and dirty.  In these conditions, perch get washed through the dam and the browns have a field day with them. As I drive by Cedar Run, I can see that the water is a bit high but also that it is gin clear.  Scratch plan number one. I stop at the second access point – my car is the only one (miracle) – but as I’m suiting up, two more cars arrive.  The water at the access point usually holds a few fish but if these guys tromp through it first, that’ll blow my chance at them so I hurry up.  The little 6 wt. is taken since the perch streamer idea is done like dinner. I’m using a Type 6 fullsink on it – casts OK but the little rod is working – and I start swinging a little pattern – nothing.  This is a new pattern that I hope will successfully imitate small baitfish but I don’t move a single fish.  I work downstream while the car load work upstream.  The area around Cedar Run tends not to have a lot of defined seams and runs that would appeal to the nympher – mostly composed of flats connected by riffles.  However, the gang has parked themselves in a nice nymphing spot and after about 15 minutes, a dead brown of about 12" floats by.  Later, one guy walks by and I say the I noticed he had hooked one.  He’s quite pleased to describe it but I refrain from telling him the result. Should mention that in the process of hurrying I had left behind my tippet, thermometer, camera, and a couple of fly boxes. Should also mention that it was freaking cold and I was dressed for the summer-like temperatures promised for mid day. Should also mention that I didn’t get a single hit. To hell with Cedar Run and I pack up for The Trestle.  This spot has an old rail trestle bridge that is now used by walkers – it has a beautiful view of the Grand.  Directly below the bridge, there’s some slow water that has the appearance of a warm water river, but further down, the river is split by an island and as the river rejoins, there’s a beautiful nymphing run which is now my intended target but it’s probably chock-a-block with anglers. I unwrap the 20 something year old graphite Orvis Osprey – a slow 9′ 6" six weight that I bought over eBay.  The cork is still white – the rod having seen virtually no use.  It was an impulse buy and I regretted it afterward but hell, since I have it, might as well use it.  What a little gem.  About as perfect a nymphing rod as one could want. At least when I don’t catch any fish I’ll enjoin the experience. When I get to the run, there’s no one in it despite seeing fishermen above and below me.  Are they all nuts?  On goes a #18 bead head prince nymph that I had bought at the Feathered Hook last year. Within a few minutes of my travels to the dark side, I’ve hooked and landed a sleek, fat, 15-16" brown.  She put on quite a show, charging all over the place, making the JLH sing a few times and causing the gang upstream to cast covetous glances.  Swing her into the shallows, she’s lightly hooked, lift the head and slip out the nymph and she’s on her way.  A few casts later and I’ve hooked her twin sister and landed her in the same spot.  Grand browns at this time of year are at their most feisty so even a fish of this size takes a couple of minutes to land.  A few minutes later I set the hook into a larger fish but I was overly aggressive with the hookset and when it turned I had too much pressure applied.  Snap. I don’t normally hog a run but with anglers bracketing me, I don’t have much choice.  However, these hookups will be my last.  Back to the parking lot for some of Jo’s famous sandwiches and a reassessment. Can’t believe my nymphing luck.  The first set had been totally instinctive and I had been really surprised to find a fish on.  Watch out Louie, I’m starting to get the hang of this! A quick detour to a favourite spot at Inverhaugh but it yields only the briefest of hookups and a chat with a few anglers as it also gets busy while I fish.  A guide leads two rookie clients to the water and makes a big fuss out of walking across the water well downstream of me so as not to disturb my fishing water.  Thanks.  Too bad the next gang hadn’t been around to hear the instruction.  Again three, two rookies lead by a not so rookie.  He leads them into the water to cross within five feet of me and to tromp through the water I’m fishing.  As they approach, I expect to see them angle off but they keep coming. Finally, I advise them that I’m fishing this water, would they mind crossing further down.  The look of surprise on the leader’s face told me that he hadn’t even thought of the possibility that I might be actually fishing the water! Oh well, I still caught some – on a nymph to boot. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Question:

Hello people! I’ve just been doing a bit of flyfishing here in Australia in particularly the Thredbo river(Snowy mountains region) and have found it to be some of the most satisfying fishing I have done in quite some time and not to mention some of the best in the world!  I just found this news group and was wondering if thereare any "fly-swaps" happening  and could someone please give me some more info on how they work!      thanks.

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Hello people! I’ve just been doing a bit of flyfishing here in Australia in particularly the Thredbo river(Snowy mountains region) and have found it to be some of the most satisfying fishing I have done in quite some time and not to mention some of the best in the world!  I just found this news group and was wondering if thereare any "fly-swaps" happening  and could someone please give me some more info on how they work!     thanks.

Ah Anthony, good to see we have another Aussie in our midst, welcome aboard. As to your fly swap question, you just missed the Great Fly Swap of 2001, which was kicked off in Jan. and finished the end of March.  I have hosted two of these thus far and plan to submit myself to more abuse of swapmeistering in the future.  This will probably turn out to be an annual event, so stay tuned.  Additionally, someone else is toying with the idea of hosting one this summer (our summer, not yours :-])  Put simply, the "swapmeister" sets the type of swap, ie: trout type fishing flies, warmwater flies, maybe all streamers, dries or whatever.  Folks sign-up, the number of participants determine the number of flies each will tie, all of same pattern of their choice, all tyers submit their flies to the swapmeister, who in turn re-distributes one of each pattern submitted, to all other participants. For example, say there are 30 people signed up for the swap, you submit 30 flies of the same pattern, you get back 30 different flies. Generally speaking, after signup is complete, you would have 30 days to get your flies sent in. This last swap had tyers from US, Canada, England, The Netherlands, and Australia, Steven Welsh being the sole contributor from there.  A great time was had by all, I grew a few more gray hairs ), and some gorgeous flies were sent round the world.  I hope you stick around to join us. Frank (bent and bowed, but not out) Church Elkhart, IN  USA

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G’day Anthony, Thredbo eh?  Not too busy on the the Easter break? Frank has pretty much covered the swap administrivia, I heartily recommend participating if you can get signed up … well worth it and not such a chore (tying lots of flies) as you might think.  In a bit of a quandary about next year myself, I  will be in Tassie when its called <FHG. From our perspective … postage about $6 AUD to Frank in Indiana, took a week to get there.  Customs are not a problem from the US foot and mouth wise (hopefully that won’t be an issue at all soon) so you will get your set of flies back.   You might like to have a look at rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying   A couple of local sites you may or may not have discovered: www.flyflickers.com www.fishnet.com.au Fishnet has swaps run through their Virtual FlyBox … though these seem to be in hiatus at present.  FlyFlickers content is mainly drawn from experience around Eildon and the Goulburn (in Vic. Where you from anyway?) Flylickers hope to host a swap this winter (our winter … which gives me a lead in actually.   How many of you would be interested in joining an Aus. trout fly swap hosted by me at flyflickers?  NOTE: this is not a call for participation just an expression (or not) of interest … Hooroo, Steve Stephen Welsh Telephone:(03) 9905 5183 International callers: +61 3 9905 5183 Fax: (03) 9905 5146 International callers: +61 3 9905 5146 Postal address:     School of Computer Science and Software Engineering             Monash University Wellington Road Clayton, Victoria 3800 AUSTRALIA

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Question:

You might want to fish Cliff and Wade lake from that float tube. Schuh-fly

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Brian Nelson writes:

(snip good info) With closer inspection, one will find the seams and riffles just like any other freestone, only on a larger, more subtle, scale.

Thank you, Brian.  You have confirmed what I thought they might be like.  I am sure there are raging rivers out there, especially during run-off.  Thanks again. Dave LaCourse

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake. Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving. Western Montana topography is characterized by what is called the Broad Valley Rockies. These glacially-carved u-shaped valleys are actually fairly easy gradient (not too steep). This results in rivers which typically are not raging torrents as some people may envision the northern Rockies. The Clark Fork (the largest of the rivers) and the Big Hole, with exceptions, are fairly ‘flat’ rivers. They are still freestone and

subsequently do flood and get scary during runoff, but during the low flow times, are great rivers for getting LONG drifts with a fly. The water is moving at 3 to 5 miles an hour but it is deceiving when it is a flat stretch. With closer inspection, one will find the seams and riffles just like any other

freestone, only on a larger, more subtle, scale. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

Any time you want to floattube rivers just remember how much of you is underwater!! * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

The absolute, definitive, conclusive answer is, "It depends."  I have fished all of the rivers that you mentioned (not that it makes me an expert or anything), and I have to say that it depends on where you look and when you look there.  Henry’s Fork is a big open flat down on the Railroad Ranch section, but is whitewater a few miles upstream in Box Canyon.  Similarly, the Big Hole is pretty easy to wade in August, but is a raging torrent in June.  I fished the Stillwater last August, and it was a pretty gentle river at the time, but has a reputation for killing even expert whitewater kayakers during higher water. This is a broad generalization, but seems to be true for most of the rivers that I fish:  The downstream section is big, flat, and slow;  flows through a wide flat valley with a major highway running nearby, produces the biggest fish, and attracts the most fishermen, and is featured regularly in the flyfishing magazines.  The land is mostly privately owned, but there is usually good public access. The upper section is steeper, faster, and has more whitewater.  It is probably on Forest Service land, but it may be tricky finding a public access point. The fish are smaller and easier to catch, and you have to drive on some bad gravel road and possibly do some hiking to get to the river, so not as many fisherman (or photographers) get there. So anyway, if whitewater is what you like, you can find it on most of the rivers if you know where to look. Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.  You can even float tube some of them.  If you float tubed the Rapid River in Maine, site of this year’s roff Maine Clave, you probably would die!  <g  On much  of the Rapid, a drag free drift will last but a few seconds, but on some of this Montana water, it *looks* like you can get a big long drift.  The difference is even greater when you consider a nymph drift.  Some of the pix show riffles and moderate "fast water", but nothing like I am used to. Now, I don’t mean to start a fight — this ain’t no flame baited post.  I would like to hear from you folks that fish these waters.  I will be at the Western Clave and will probably have my youngest grandson.  I am planning on fishing all of this water, and more if we can fit it in. Dave LaCourse

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I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.  

Dave, The only one I can talk about is the Henry’s Fork a.k.a. the North Fork (of the Snake).  It is a widely varying river.  It is true that there are places with slow moving water, such as on the Railroad Ranch section and much of the water upstream to Last Chance.  Above this, in Box Canyon, the water is considerably faster.  The water below Ashton Dam is not fast, but is very braided with little foam bubbles that are hard to distinguish from a white post on a parachute Adams <g.  In between these two locations you have Upper and Lower Mesa Falls, which are definitely fast!  They also provide an outstanding view, well worth the drive to see them.  There is a scenic loop off the highway between Island Park and Last Chance which will take you to the falls. I know this isn’t a definitive "fast"or "slow" answer, but the nature of the river changes frequently, depending mostly on the elevation gradient.  Much of the Henry’s Fork is wadeable, unlike the South Fork of the Snake which is a big, deep river.  If you come down to Island Park, Take a side trip to Big Springs, which is the headwaters of the Henry’s Fork.  You can drive to where the water bubbles out of the ground.  There are usually some very large trout there that you can throw worms to (no fishing allowed).  If you have any questions I can answer, let me know. Jeff

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Dave,    After the rivers in Montana leave the mountains the gradient is fairly low as they flow east  Many of the rivers in Idaho have cut such deep canyons with sheer walls it scares the hell out of you when you drive over an old wooden bridge and look down. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.  You can even float tube some of them.  If you float tubed the Rapid River in Maine, site of this year’s roff Maine Clave, you probably would die!  <g  On much  of the Rapid, a drag free drift will last but a few seconds, but on some of this Montana water, it *looks* like you can get a big long drift.  The difference is even greater when you consider a nymph drift.  Some of the pix show riffles and moderate "fast water", but nothing like I am used to. Now, I don’t mean to start a fight — this ain’t no flame baited post.  I would like to hear from you folks that fish these waters.  I will be at the Western Clave and will probably have my youngest grandson.  I am planning on fishing all of this water, and more if we can fit it in. Dave LaCourse

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.  You can even float tube some of them.  If you float tubed the Rapid River in Maine, site of this year’s roff Maine Clave, you probably would die!  <g  On much  of the Rapid, a drag free drift will last but a few seconds, but on some of this Montana water, it *looks* like you can get a big long drift.  The difference is even greater when you consider a nymph drift.  Some of the pix show riffles and moderate "fast water", but nothing like I am used to. Now, I don’t mean to start a fight — this ain’t no flame baited post.  I would like to hear from you folks that fish these waters.  I will be at the Western Clave and will probably have my youngest grandson.  I am planning on fishing all of this water, and more if we can fit it in. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Jeff Shriver writes:

(good descriptions deletes for brev) If you have any questions I can answer, let me know.

Thanks, Jeff.  I am facinated by what I am seeing in these books.  I’ve had them for years and never really looked at them.  Again, thanks.   Dave LaCourse

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I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.

You’ve already got the right response on the Henry’s Fork from other postings.  The Madison River below Quake Lake is known as the "50 mile riffle."   It is very swift and can be difficult to wade.   The Clark Fork is a free stone river, too.  I’d say keep the float tube in the car, except for Quake Lake and Henry’s Lake.

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I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large. You’ve already got the right response on the Henry’s Fork from other postings. The Madison River below Quake Lake is known as the "50 mile riffle."   It is very swift and can be difficult to wade.

I was about to post the same. I’ve fished the Madison a few times, always well past any sort of seasonal runoff, and once you get past the campground down to around Rt87 and the old Stagger Ranch section, there’s miles of bubbly stuff that can make drifting a fly a challenge. Trying to think of a section of the Rapid to compare it to…the closest I can think of is the water directly below Lower Dam up to the turn at the Summer House (and not the chub water along the north bank – I mean the roily stuff along the south bank). btw: If you don’t have one of those SOSuspenders Dave, I’d think seriously about investing in the larger one before you try wading the Madison… /daytripper

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I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers …You can even float tube some of them.

Montana rivers are slow moving? Well maybe.   Dangerously fast white water is seldom good trout habitat. But that doesn’t mean drifting or float tubing Montana rivers is is safe for beginners. Nearly every river on your list does have dangerous stretches you need to know about. Log jams and irrigation dams kill more amateur floaters than white water. Note too that drifting a river is often more dangerous at low water that at high water because you have so little room to maneuver when drifting past tangles of cottonwood logs. I see more inexperienced, fool-hardy floaters every year. During the salmon fly hatch on the Big Hole in 1979 close to 20 driftboats where sunk and bashed to shreds at Brown’s Bridge alone. — /* Sandy Pittendrigh                  –oO0  * http://montana-riverboats.com  */

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writes: Montana rivers are slow moving? Well maybe.   Dangerously fast white water is seldom good trout habitat.

Uh, where did I say it WAS good trout habitat.  From what I have seen in the River Journal books, the water IS slow moving, meadering thru meadows without very many rapids.   But that doesn’t mean drifting or float tubing Montana rivers is is safe for beginners.

Never said it was, Sandy. Never even said I was going to float tube.  If I bring my float tubes, I will used them on ponds/lakes.  What I did say was that the books show float tubers in very placid water.  Three are shown on the Clark Fork in what looks like a pond, not a raging river. Nearly every river on your list does have dangerous stretches you need to know about.

That’s why I have Warren.  <g Log jams and irrigation dams kill more amateur floaters than white water. Note too that drifting a river is often more dangerous at low water that at high water because you have so little room to maneuver when drifting past tangles of cottonwood logs. I see more inexperienced, fool-hardy floaters every year. During the salmon fly hatch on the Big Hole in 1979 close to 20 driftboats where sunk and bashed to shreds at Brown’s Bridge alone.

Dave L.  (not planning on floating anything except a home-tie)      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.

Western Montana topography is characterized by what is called the Broad Valley Rockies. These glacially-carved u-shaped valleys are actually fairly easy gradient (not too steep). This results in rivers which typically are not raging torrents as some people may envision the northern Rockies. The Clark Fork (the largest of the rivers) and the Big Hole, with exceptions, are fairly ‘flat’ rivers. They are still freestone and subsequently do flood and get scary during runoff, but during the low flow times, are great rivers for getting LONG drifts with a fly. The water is moving at 3 to 5 miles an hour but it is deceiving when it is a flat stretch. With closer inspection, one will find the seams and riffles just like any other freestone, only on a larger, more subtle, scale. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

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Question:

Will be at camp Moosehead Lake, Maine second week September.  Want to do some casting/spinning fishing for trout, salmon,  teage what should I take, in way of lures, what weight line, etc.  Any suggestions where to fish on Mt Kineo side lake?    

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writes: Will be at camp Moosehead Lake, Maine second week September.  Want to do some casting/spinning fishing for trout, salmon,  teage what should I take, in way of lures, what weight line, etc.  Any suggestions where to fish on Mt Kineo side lake?    

Stop off at the Maine Guide Fly Shop in Greenville before heading to Rockwood. Danny will set you up with what you need for spin fishing or lake trolling. Bill — Bill Fling                     Tel. (315) 298-3044 SALMON RIVER ANGLERS LODGE     FAX  (315) 298-2619 P.O. Box 353                   Rt. 13, Rome Road Pulaski, NY 13142-0353   ‘SALMON RIVER/LAKE ONTARIO SPORTFISHING REPORTS’             ‘http://www.salmon-river.com’

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Has anyone fished Moosehead Lake (Maine) for Bass?  I am thinking about going up there in August.  Thanks

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Wow, this takes me back…haven’t fished Moosehead since the early 70s…didn’t know bass were there! Try spinners fished deep near the islands and points. ACP

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Question:

The Entomological Society of America sells various slide libraries for eductatinal purposes. I am sure they would include aquatic insects. You — Tim Lysyk http://www.agt.net/public/cnangler/html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am searching for individuals or company that has 35mm slides of aquatic insects of high quality.  These slides will be used in educational and

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I am searching for individuals or company that has 35mm slides of aquatic insects of high quality.  These slides will be used in educational and

There is a fellow in Colorado Springs that has a bug identification company. Can’t remember the address. Might try web search..Yahoo…entomology. I’ve got links to Mayfly Central on my web site which is at Purdue University. Might alos try contacting some of the other sites I have listed.If you e-mail them they might have something for you. My web page is http://www.commonlink.com/~Midwestflytying — Visit my web site:http://www.commonlink.com/~Midwestflytying

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I am searching for individuals or company that has 35mm slides of aquatic insects of high quality.  These slides will be used in educational and

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Question:

First response is : Replace the line if it’s 13 months old.  How much do you fish this line, I try to give my old (12 months) fly lines to beginners to encourage them.  Next, I did the same thing last week, I was fishing False Albacore off of Montauk, LI, NY and layed down a beautiful Cuban on my motor controls so I could tye on a new Clouser.  I looked down to see the Tarpon Taper Intermediate line smoking and melting as it laid up against the cigar.  I picked up the  gar, took a couple of puff, rolled my fingers around the melted area of the fly line and through it at 100 breaking ""albies".  I landed four more fish that afternoon with that line and plan to use it again next week.  I wouldn’t fish that burned line on a Tarpon (BIG TARPON that is) trip but this burn went right down to the core yet still seems to have plenty of strength. That’s my story and I’m stickin to it! Bonefly

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I’ve repaired fly lines on several occasions but never from a burn.  I did cut an almost new fly line in half when I stepped on it with stream cleatl.  To repair the cut line I removed the plastic coating on each end, lapped the ends over each other and sewed them together with needle and thread.  I followed that with a smooth coat of Zap A Gap.

Now That’s a patch! How did the line hold up? Carl carl

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I’ve repaired fly lines on several occasions but never from a burn.  I did cut an almost new fly line in half when I stepped on it with stream cleatl.  To repair the cut line I removed the plastic coating on each end, lapped the ends over each other and sewed them together with needle and thread.  I followed that with a smooth coat of Zap A Gap. Now That’s a patch! How did the line hold up

Hi Carl The line seems to holding up very well.  I made the repairs last year and have used the line hard since then with no problems. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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I may have pulled the ultimate bonehead manuveur.  I melted my flyline with a cigar while tying on a fly.  The central core is not exposed, but the plastic is clearly damaged.  The line is 13 months old. My question to this esteemed group (as I am sure someone else has done this before): Will this affect the strength of the line? Should I discard the line? Should I attempt to coat the damaged area with something? Thanks,  Steve Haun

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I may have pulled the ultimate bonehead manuveur.  I melted my flyline with a cigar while tying on a fly.  The central core is not exposed, but the plastic is clearly damaged.  The line is 13 months old. My question to this esteemed group (as I am sure someone else has done this before): Will this affect the strength of the line? Should I discard the line? Should I attempt to coat the damaged area with something? Thanks,  Steve Haun

Hi Steve, I’ve repaired fly lines on several occasions but never from a burn.  I did cut an almost new fly line in half when I stepped on it with stream cleatl.  To repair the cut line I removed the plastic coating on each end, lapped the ends over each other and sewed them together with needle and thread.  I followed that with a smooth coat of Zap A Gap. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Yet another reason to stop smoking!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I may have pulled the ultimate bonehead manuveur.  I melted my flyline with a cigar while tying on a fly.  The central core is not exposed, but the plastic is clearly damaged.  The line is 13 months old. My question to this esteemed group (as I am sure someone else has done this before): Will this affect the strength of the line? Should I discard the line? Should I attempt to coat the damaged area with something? Thanks,  Steve Haun

Steve, As long as the core is ok, you might try Aquaseal over the melted portion. Spread it thin, wet your finger and smooth it out. It should work fine. Almost have done the same on several occasions. Norm

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Message from another bonehead! You can try and fix the burned area with one of the knot glues, I have used Loon Outdoors Knot Coat with success. Give the line a good yank after drying to make sure. But better still, because you can never be sure how far down the heat has penetrated into the core, cut out the burned section. Then by dipping each end of the fly line into nail polish remover soften the outer coatings, and strip off about 2 inches from each end of the line. Using a rough comb or brush ‘flay’ the ends of the exposed cores. Lay these exposed and flayed ends of the cores over each other and using a fly tying bobbin wrap the cores with several layers of thread. Then coat the whipped join with one of the knot glues. Ensure the knot glue is applied over the ends of the line coating on either end of the join to stop water ‘whicking’ up the central core. Good luck! Conficoius say man who smokes into wind with loose flyline gets his own back. — Tony Bishop Fish with Bish Taupo New Zealand – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I may have pulled the ultimate bonehead manuveur.  I melted my flyline with a cigar while tying on a fly.  The central core is not exposed, but the plastic is clearly damaged.  The line is 13 months old. My question to this esteemed group (as I am sure someone else has done this before): Will this affect the strength of the line? Should I discard the line? Should I attempt to coat the damaged area with something? Thanks,  Steve Haun

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Question:

Which do you prefer, monofilament or braided leaders, and under what conditions?  What do you like about it? The reason I’m asking this question is that I’ve been going back and forth for years on it and I can’t seem to make up my mind. I’m new to this group and I apologize if this has already been beat to death…

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: Which do you prefer, monofilament or braided leaders, and under : what conditions?  What do you like about it? Braided leaders are great for a lot of situations in fishing. The only problems with them are that there is a little of bit of built in stretch. The other is that the flyfisher can’t easily design and build a leader out of that stuff like he can with mono. I do use braided sinking leaders a lot, but I prefer mono for all my floating leaders because I like to tie my own the way I like them. Jon Porter

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I’m a dry fly  nut. I dont like the way a braided leader snakes on the water. It turns a fly over very nicely, but I feel you dont get  near as long of a drag free float as you do with a knotted leader of george Harvey’s or similar design.         If you nymph alot, I think they’re fine. It sure is easy to use, but for the most part, I don’t care much for braided leaders. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Which do you prefer, monofilament or braided leaders, and under what conditions?  What do you like about it? The reason I’m asking this question is that I’ve been going back and forth for years on it and I can’t seem to make up my mind. I’m new to this group and I apologize if this has already been beat to death…

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I meant to say, I do not like the way that a braided leader does NOT snake on the water,   oops : – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m a dry fly  nut. I dont like the way a braided leader snakes on the water. It turns a fly over very nicely, but I feel you dont get  near as long of a drag free float as you do with a knotted leader of george Harvey’s or similar design.    If you nymph alot, I think they’re fine. It sure is easy to use, but for the most part, I don’t care much for braided leaders. Which do you prefer, monofilament or braided leaders, and under what conditions?  What do you like about it? The reason I’m asking this question is that I’ve been going back and forth for years on it and I can’t seem to make up my mind. I’m new to this group and I apologize if this has already been beat to death…

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Which do you prefer, monofilament or braided leaders, and under what conditions?  What do you like about it? The reason I’m asking this question is that I’ve been going back and forth for years on it and I can’t seem to make up my mind. I’m new to this group and I apologize if this has already been beat to death…

Braided leaders died in Nor Cal about 5 years ago. Fly fisherman here buy knotless mono tapered leaders. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Dan Garcia pretty much hit the nail on the head with braided leaders. I’m not a leader fiddler beyond the tippet size and length. I use braided leaders in two lengths for all of my dry fly fishing. It has worked from the Deschutes to Silver Creek for me. Braided leaders aren’t that great for deep nymphing, the line is much bigger in diameter than comparible mono. The one situation I use the braided leader is chironomid fishing on lakes. I hate the way strike indicators get in the way when landing a fish. So I tie on a beadhead chironomid on a 14+ foot leader and put a liberal amount of floatant on the first two feet of the braided butt section. The floating section is my strike indicator. For nymphing, I like to use hinged leaders, and I like to roll my own for that. –DBLHAUL–

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(Eric Mintz) writes: Which do you prefer, monofilament or braided leaders, and under what conditions?  What do you like about it? The reason I’m asking this question is that I’ve been going back and forth for years on it and I can’t seem to make up my mind.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both types of leaders. Braided leaders cast much better and more accurately than mono leaders due to the suppleness of the braid.  When using "normal leaders" as the loop gets to the  leader the loop opens up (sometimes a lot) because the leader is stiffer than the fly line.  Braided butt leaders don’t open up because they transfer the energy of the cast much more effectively due to their suppleness, and they allow better precision on "one shot" casts (such as those from a drift boat as you’re drifting downriver).  Because of their improved transfer of energy they allow you to cast longer leaders more easily.  12 foot leaders are a snap to cast with this type of leader. They also allow better drifts on the water because of this suppleness.  If you are fishing 6X & 7X tippets with a braided butt leader you will land more fish because the braid stretches quite a bit more than regular monofilament and is more forgiving of mistakes and sudden shock.  The braided section will last for years and all you have to do is replace the tips as you wear them out.  You can tie up your own tips to save money if you like.  The tip sections on the Orvis braided leaders taper within the first foot to the final tippet size.  You can add a straight 4 ft. section of 3X or 4X, but need to step it down to go to 5X or smaller if you tie up your own tip sections.  The loop to loop connections in the braid are clean and easy to use connections. But all is not rosy in paradise, and as is typical with flyfishing, you get something, you give something up.  All leaders will absorb enough water to sink into the surface film within about 10 minutes if not treated with fly floatant.  When they do, it not only makes mending the leader impossible, it causes leaders to spray water on the cast. The braided leaders do this is spades because all the little spaces between the braid will capture and hold water if not treated.  If you rub some paste floatant into it before you start fishing, no problem.  If you don’t, big problems.  Orvis now has some "floating" braided leaders that are impregnated with a substance that cures this problem but it is only available in 9 ft. lengths.  The braided section of the leader (the Orvis braided butt leaders have 4 ft. of tip section and the rest is a tapered braided butt) is not clear as mono is and may not be as subtle.  I believe the added suppleness and the improved drifts I get more than compensate for this myself, but there is a definite difference and you must be more careful about "lining" fish.  The biggest disadvantage with braided leaders is that you have fewer adjustment options on the stream.  They come in 7 1/2ft., 9ft., 12ft., and now 16 ft. lengths which will satisfy the requirements of most people, but if you like to fiddle with your leader design by changing the butt and the tippet design, you are out of luck.  You can easily make the tip section an additional foot longer or so, but that’s about it.  You can’t adjust the length of the butt section because you’d have to cut and splice the braid to do so. I would say that the braided leader offers a lot of advantages for most people, but if you like to tailor your leader to a specific purpose at a specific time, use the mono and become very good at tying knots.  I personally used the braided leaders for a number of years but have become one of those "leader fiddlers" and have gone back to mono because of the ability to cut off and/or add material at a moments notice which I probably do entirely too often, but I enjoy it so I do.                                 Hope this helps,                                       Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Question:

Heading to B.C. but I don’t know where to go.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  I’m a stream fisherman so point me in the right direction.

BC is mostly lake fishing, esp Kamloops area.  However, there is excellent stream fishing at Skagit River (C&R only) near Hope also steelhead/salmon at Chilliwack River. — The views expressed are my own and does not represent those of my employer.

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Heading to B.C. but I don’t know where to go.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  I’m a stream fisherman so point me in the right direction.

From you monniker you might like to try and get hold of Kelly Davison 11891 Charrington Maple Ridge BC 604 467 6406 He guided me a couple of years back in September/October and I lost count of the bright sea run cuts we landed – mostly 2lb or so – but up to about 4lb. All taken on an olive marabou/mylar minnow pattern on a l/s size 8. My first experience with cuts – and one of the best days fishing ever! I also heard that you can beach cast for them with a fly rod from below College Park – but didn’t have the time to get down there. Tight lines — Martin Kurrein 199 Strand London WC2R 1DR http://www.mkurrein.co.uk/

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Heading to B.C. but I don’t know where to go.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  I’m a stream fisherman so point me in the right direction.

Try the Web page for Hansen’s in Vancouver (I could find the address somewhere if you can’t).  They gave me a greta trip for early July – lake fishing with damsel flies.  But they could give you a completely different suggestion for the time you are going.

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Heading to B.C. but I don’t know where to go.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  I’m a stream fisherman so point me in the right direction.

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Question:

I have a short list of about a dozen fishing books (mostly fly fishing) these are out-of-print or first edition copies.  If you collect books on fishing, or just love to read about it (you probably do if you are on this list)  you might enjoy my occasional lists of sporting books. Thank you for reading. David Holloway

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Iam looking for a copy of "the compleat angler"can you help. nav9200

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Question:

         My view on people who have sold out is someone who used to make good,    innovative, sometimes dangerous music who signed to a major and now seem intent    on making enourmous amounts of money playing dull, uninteresting music made with    a safe formula and relying on media hype to boost their income.             My list of major sell-outs would include:-                  the Rolling Stones, Genesis, M.Jackson, Madonna, Guns ‘n’ Roses           (you get the message) To the ones underlined (using "^"): I do not recall that they _ever_ pretended to be "alternative" at any time. They were _always_ mainstream from the outset. By this technicality and by your reasoning, they cannot be sellouts, since none of them were ever "innovative" or "dangerous" by your (and my own) criteria at any time in their carreers, in my opinion.  

        I stand corrected, on re-reading what I had written I can see that I had      slipped out of context for a while. I think I went away from the subject      (i.e. "alternative" music) and instead lingered on the sell-out topic.         What I tried to say (not very clearly) is that these people had made a      large quantity of good music that amassed them a very large fan-base, but when       their music quality dropped to a sub-standard level their record sales        (and hence their income) stayed at a high level due to media hype.

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        Personally I think Nevermind was pretty much a sellout album, with me it hasen’t stood the test of time, or maybe it was just overplayed too much. — Richard Stride… ‘Master Myoclonis Meets Mephisto’

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[Stuff Deleted ...] To the "alternative" loser,   I was listening to alternative music before it was grouped into a catagory     -Isn’t this a contradiction, surely you’ve categorised alternative music.     I can’t speak for people in America, but in England "alternative" music is just   that – an alternative. It’s not a type of music, you don’t listen to a song and   think "Oh yeah, that’s alternative". It’s a category into which you can slot   many types, styles and fashions – i.e. Punk, Metal, Grunge, crusty, indie etc, etc.

Same here in Canada. And I get annoyed over such interpretations of "alternative" for the same reasons.          My view on people who have sold out is someone who used to make good,    innovative, sometimes dangerous music who signed to a major and now seem intent    on making enourmous amounts of money playing dull, uninteresting music made with    a safe formula and relying on media hype to boost their income.             My list of major sell-outs would include:-                  the Rolling Stones, Genesis, M.Jackson, Madonna, Guns ‘n’ Roses

          (you get the message)

To the ones underlined (using "^"): I do not recall that they _ever_ pretended to be "alternative" at any time. They were _always_ mainstream from the outset. By this technicality and by your reasoning, they cannot be sellouts, since none of them were ever "innovative" or "dangerous" by your (and my own) criteria at any time in their carreers, in my opinion.  Sure, the Stones began their carreers with much controversy and were known as "the Bad Boys of rock and roll" and still are; but IMO, they were merely attracting attention to themselves for commercial gain and success based on the free publicity of the news media. Their "cock-rock" musical style hasn’t changed in the past 30 years, qualifying them as probably more "conservative", and less versatile, IMO, than Frank Sinatra. Same for Madonna’s "cunt-rock" style. The unchanging nature of her music kind of ranks up there with Marie Osmond. BTW, you can also add Paul Simon, and most "resurrected" ’60s rock groups, like Starship (the most extreme example), The Greatful Dead, CSN&Y, Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton (all playing it safe to a lesser extent), and Elton John (another extreme example — recall 11-17-70, Empty Sky, Yellowbrick Road & compare with ANYTHING he’s done since 1980). —

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Hiya, Could someone help me make an informed decision and post the track listing for the latest Pavement album. Thanks, E. |                                 Eric J.                                     |

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        Where the hell has anyone seen a ripped sweater for $300 for crissake!?!?  This I gotta see…js

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How do you think I must feel? I’ve been listening to snotty nosed little dweebs whining about poser’s since grade 10. Ten years ago.

wow, you were in the 10th grade in ‘83, me too.  do you remember the really bad post-punk bands of the day.  too bad i missed out on the poser bashing.  you know what’s really funny:  i still were the same clothes i did then.  then i was called a dirt-boy, now you can buy a ripped sweater for $300.  go figger. —                                   Jeff Scott

–

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To all the "alternative" losers,         I have a little news for you.  You all seem to think that you are just the coolest calling bands sell-outs and making fun of all the ‘grunge’ dressers.  I’ve been sitting here reading your little arguementative articles and I think you’re all full of crap.  I was listening to alternative music before it was grouped into a catagory and just because some of my favorie bands happen to have had maybe one album hit mainstream doesn’t mean that now I should change my taste in music.  It also doesn’t mean I won’t be attending Lollapalooza’s anymore.  Those were some of the best times of my life and will be for years to come (hopefully).  It really turns my stomach to read about your opinions.  Maybe if you weren’t so close-minded you’d realize how stupid you really sound.  I didn’t post this to get a hostile response, only to make you think.  Really, you do sound like a bunch of losers. Sorry.         -Joanna

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To all the "alternative" losers,    I have a little news for you.  You all seem to think that you are just the coolest calling bands sell-outs and making fun of all the ‘grunge’ dressers.  I’ve been sitting here reading your little arguementative articles and I think you’re all full of crap.  I was listening to alternative music before it was grouped into a catagory and just because some of my favorie bands happen to have had maybe one album hit mainstream doesn’t mean that now I should change my taste in music.  It also doesn’t mean I won’t be attending Lollapalooza’s anymore.  Those were some of the best times of my life and will be for years to come (hopefully).  It really turns my stomach to read about your opinions.  Maybe if you weren’t so close-minded you’d realize how stupid you really sound.  I didn’t post this to get a hostile response, only to make you think.  Really, you do sound like a bunch of losers. Sorry.    -Joanna

yes!!! i posted an article to this effect a little while ago. i thought the whole idea of the mindset that this newsgroup is supposed to represent was being open to new things. lets stop bitching about who liked what groups when, and what groups have sold out because they need to make a living. lets start discussing music for what it is… music. its not grunge, its not alternative, its not rock, its not punk, and its not even disco. its fucking music. those terms are good as catagories for easier identification. kind of like male and female. that is all they are. what matters is the music. burnt

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How do you think I must feel? I’ve been listening to snotty nosed little dweebs whining about poser’s since grade 10. Ten years ago. —                                    Jeff Scott

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To all the "alternative" losers,    I have a little news for you.  You all seem to think that you are just the coolest calling bands sell-outs and making fun of all the ‘grunge’ dressers.  I’ve been sitting here reading your little arguementative articles and I think you’re all full of crap.  I was listening to alternative music before it was grouped into a catagory and just because some of my favorie bands happen to have had maybe one album hit mainstream doesn’t mean that now I should change my taste in music.  It also doesn’t mean I won’t be attending Lollapalooza’s anymore.  Those were some of the best times of my life and will be for years to come (hopefully).  It really turns my stomach to read about your opinions.  Maybe if you weren’t so close-minded you’d realize how stupid you really sound.  I didn’t post this to get a hostile response, only to make you think.  Really, you do sound like a bunch of losers. Sorry.    -Joanna

To the "alternative" loser,     I was listening to alternative music before it was grouped into a catagory      -Isn’t this a contradiction, surely you’ve categorised alternative music.      I can’t speak for people in America, but in England "alternative" music is just    that – an alternative. It’s not a type of music, you don’t listen to a song and    think "Oh yeah, that’s alternative". It’s a category into which you can slot    many types, styles and fashions – i.e. Punk, Metal, Grunge, crusty, indie etc, etc.          What it’s an alternative to is the "mainstream". This is nothing more than     an enourmous financial institution providing financial security and massive     wealth to many "rock stars". Corporate back-handers ensure radio and TV play     to boring, and safe music makers. These bands are of course not all guilty     many just using the extra spending powers to produce better music (mostly former     indie bands who have signed to majors).           My view on people who have sold out is someone who used to make good,     innovative, sometimes dangerous music who signed to a major and now seem intent     on making enourmous amounts of money playing dull, uninteresting music made with     a safe formula and relying on media hype to boost their income.              My list of major sell-outs would include:-                   the Rolling Stones, Genesis, M.Jackson, Miss Madonna, Guns ‘n’ Roses            (you get the message)            Bands who I think are getting dangerously close to sell-out time                    (their records are getting more and more boring):-                            U2, REM, and Simple Minds         There are countless bands I could add, but I’m not going to (so there).             I don’t think people can be critical of Nirvana yet as they haven’t        released any new material, everything they’ve released since Nevermind was        recorded before Nevermind. They could go on to write better songs      (like Mettalica have) they could progress back to their old (and less popular)   style which is more likely or they could come up with some absolute bollocks.                 Time will tell.           Meanwhile people’s opinion will come and go, birds will fly, fish will swim       and polar bears will do whatever it is polar bears do.          So my dear Joanna, let people say what they want, insults breed nothing but contempt and statements like,             It really turns my stomach to read about your opinions.          Don’t say much for freedom of speech, do they.                       Bye,                         Rob

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