Question:

I feel so….used…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, I think Don might have had an ulterior motive for the question about emu feathers – he’s got them for sale on that www.canflyfish.com.au website! They’re not as nice as ostritch.     and not remotely as rare as mu feathers, which are located only in semi-baja california, and are extracted at great risk to the collector. yfitons wayno Any fly tyers out there tried Emu Feathers? Yep. Wolfgang anybody else?

Response:

They’re not as nice as ostritch.

Sure, a simple question simply answered, and right away somebody has to go technical!      :) Wolfgang who knows that’s it’s really a matter of how much ya got to cover.

Response:

Hey, I think Don might have had an ulterior motive for the question about emu feathers – he’s got them for sale on that www.canflyfish.com.au website!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They’re not as nice as ostritch.     and not remotely as rare as mu feathers, which are located only in semi-baja california, and are extracted at great risk to the collector. yfitons wayno Any fly tyers out there tried Emu Feathers? Yep. Wolfgang anybody else?

Response:

Any fly tyers out there tried Emu Feathers? — Don Cantrell Cantrell Fly Fishing http://www.canflyfish.com.au Hand crafted flies, and selected fly tying materials

Response:

Any fly tyers out there tried Emu Feathers?

Yep. Wolfgang anybody else?

Response:

They’re not as nice as ostritch.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any fly tyers out there tried Emu Feathers? Yep. Wolfgang anybody else?

Response:

They’re not as nice as ostritch.

    and not remotely as rare as mu feathers, which are located only in semi-baja california, and are extracted at great risk to the collector. yfitons wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any fly tyers out there tried Emu Feathers? Yep. Wolfgang anybody else?

Response:

Question:

Evolution of the Penn’s Creek Fisherman: 6. sleep, eat, drink, laugh, fish, in no special order….. Remember, it’s evolution, short cuts can be dangerous…….

We like living on the edge.  Danger is our business.  Besides, we ain’t all that sure about all that evolution stuff……and there’s just too damn much to remember!     Wolfgang who sure hopes there ain’t gonna be a quiz.

Response:

We like living on the edge.  Danger is our business.  Besides, we ain’t all that sure about all that evolution stuff……and there’s just too damn much to remember!     Wolfgang who sure hopes there ain’t gonna be a quiz.

Quiz?  I made all of that stuff up…I’m still at Step 1….

Response:

We like living on the edge.  Danger is our business.  Besides, we ain’t all that sure about all that evolution stuff……and there’s just too damn much to remember!     Wolfgang who sure hopes there ain’t gonna be a quiz. Quiz?  I made all of that stuff up…I’m still at Step 1….

Um…..Step 1 sounds a mite strenuous for us geezers.  I believe I’ll stick with step 6. Hey, I know!  While you guys are running up and down the stream for 16 hours I’ll stay behind and guard the beer!  Yeah, that’ll work!       Wolfgang it feels so good to be useful in the golden years.

Response:

Mike,    nice piece……btw, your Marabou Minnows are waiting on my kitchen table.                             Tom p.s. About that "invite a bunch of out-of- towners" step…….

Response:

<g …but, if’n it ain’t a twelve step program, none of my crowd will comply or progress…  i’ll be lookin for you at dawn and dusk or somewhere in mid-upstream hike… but only 16 hours doesn’t leave much time for many niceties, except perhaps your offering me a beer… jeff (in the land of one-step fishing) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Evolution of the Penn’s Creek Fisherman: 1. Catch as many fish as you possibly can, running up and down the creek 16 hours a day, 7 days a week, sucking down some food after dark, dressing the wounds, drying out the soaked clothes, and drinking as fast as you fish, so you can pass out, and wake up early in the morning, to get out for another 16 hours. 2. Catch as many fish as you can pausing for a few minutes to focus on the big fish at dawn, and dusk. Catching lunch in between the nymph water, and the hatch pools, and stay up later talking about how the f$#% the 20+ incher could snub your squirrelly fly presentation, wake a bit later in the morning. 3. Sleep in, wake up to a drool soaked pillow, eat a good breakfast, do some nymphing in the best holes, catch just as many fish as you did in step one in a few hours, eat lunch, drink beer, drink beer, nymph fish in the water you won’t fish the hatch in, stake out the perfect pool, wait for the amazing sequence events to take place (midges, midge spinners, emerging sulphurs, emerging grey fox, sulphur spinners, emerging sulphurs, march brown spinners, emerging sulphurs, while the caddis are there throughout), pick a fly to concentrate on, and wonder how the f$%# that monster brown could refuse your perfect fly presentation. Drink more than your old body can handle, go to beginning of step three. 4. Wake up early, eat breakfast, take a shower, wait for everyone to go upstream to all of the "best" water, fish the real water, drink beer, eat an early lunch, pass everyone going back for lunch, nymph fish, go back for early dinner, drink beer, wait for everyone to go back to the stream, go fishing on one of the other local streams, fly up over the mountain, take a couple shots, wait for someone from step one to leave the best hole, fish the hatch, throw the spinner over that one huge fish with some half assed cast, hook-it, fight it, breaks you off three feet from ya, drink tequila, take a day off the schedule, go to the beginning of step four. 5. Invite a bunch of out-of towners, teach’em step one, go to step four, somewhere around nymph fishing or dinner (taking care not to skip the beer, and shots). Enjoy everyone flying up and down the stream, throw an attractor fly out there on 2x tippet at dark, sleigh the dragon, 6. sleep, eat, drink, laugh, fish, in no special order….. Remember, it’s evolution, short cuts can be dangerous……. The Finn By the way, step one is the most fun…..

Response:

Mike,    nice piece……btw, your Marabou Minnows are waiting on my kitchen table.                             Tom p.s. About that "invite a bunch of out-of- towners" step…….

Hey, since I was one of those out of towners last year, can I move up? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply. .

Response:

Hey, I know!  While you guys are running up and down the stream for 16 hours I’ll stay behind and guard the beer!  Yeah, that’ll work!       Wolfgang it feels so good to be useful in the golden years.

A step 7!!!

Response:

p.s. About that "invite a bunch of out-of- towners" step……. Hey, since I was one of those out of towners last year, can I move up? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

You already did, although I had to practically drag you upstream myself…..in the midst of trying to locate some C4 to combat your arsenal (watch out for those underwater trip wires), but "can’t we all just get along?" The Finn

Response:

Hey, I know!  While you guys are running up and down the stream for 16 hours I’ll stay behind and guard the beer!  Yeah, that’ll work!       Wolfgang it feels so good to be useful in the golden years. A step 7!!!

See, that’s what I’m talking about….there’s ALWAYS another step….it’s like trying to keep up with Miller.  :( Wolfgang is it nap time yet?

Response:

"can’t we all just get along?"

Works for me. Wolfgang

Response:

Well, I hope to be more mobile this year.  The doc is thinking about using Botox on my back.  Oh, by the way, got a real wading staff now, and hopefully won’t loose it. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, I know!  While you guys are running up and down the stream for 16 hours I’ll stay behind and guard the beer!  Yeah, that’ll work!       Wolfgang it feels so good to be useful in the golden years. A step 7!!! See, that’s what I’m talking about….there’s ALWAYS another step….it’s like trying to keep up with Miller.  :( Wolfgang is it nap time yet?

It’s the last step you want to avoid…. The BIG nap. Willi

Response:

is it nap time yet? It’s the last step you want to avoid…. The BIG nap.

While postponement is allowed, avoidance simply isn’t tolerated in these parts. Wolfgang one MUST observe the social niceties!      :)

Response:

It’s the last step you want to avoid…. The BIG nap. While postponement is allowed, avoidance simply isn’t tolerated in these parts.

You obviously haven’t read the latest in magnetic immortality theory. http://www.alexchiu.com/ — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

It’s the last step you want to avoid…. The BIG nap. While postponement is allowed, avoidance simply isn’t tolerated in these parts. You obviously haven’t read the latest in magnetic immortality theory. http://www.alexchiu.com/

O.K., sure, but what’s it really worth when breast enhancement schemes don’t wor….um…..never mind.     Wolfgang

Response:

Evolution of the Penn’s Creek Fisherman: 1. Catch as many fish as you possibly can, running up and down the creek 16 hours a day, 7 days a week, sucking down some food after dark, dressing the wounds, drying out the soaked clothes, and drinking as fast as you fish, so you can pass out, and wake up early in the morning, to get out for another 16 hours. 2. Catch as many fish as you can pausing for a few minutes to focus on the big fish at dawn, and dusk. Catching lunch in between the nymph water, and the hatch pools, and stay up later talking about how the f$#% the 20+ incher could snub your squirrelly fly presentation, wake a bit later in the morning. 3. Sleep in, wake up to a drool soaked pillow, eat a good breakfast, do some nymphing in the best holes, catch just as many fish as you did in step one in a few hours, eat lunch, drink beer, drink beer, nymph fish in the water you won’t fish the hatch in, stake out the perfect pool, wait for the amazing sequence events to take place (midges, midge spinners, emerging sulphurs, emerging grey fox, sulphur spinners, emerging sulphurs, march brown spinners, emerging sulphurs, while the caddis are there throughout), pick a fly to concentrate on, and wonder how the f$%# that monster brown could refuse your perfect fly presentation. Drink more than your old body can handle, go to beginning of step three. 4. Wake up early, eat breakfast, take a shower, wait for everyone to go upstream to all of the "best" water, fish the real water, drink beer, eat an early lunch, pass everyone going back for lunch, nymph fish, go back for early dinner, drink beer, wait for everyone to go back to the stream, go fishing on one of the other local streams, fly up over the mountain, take a couple shots, wait for someone from step one to leave the best hole, fish the hatch, throw the spinner over that one huge fish with some half assed cast, hook-it, fight it, breaks you off three feet from ya, drink tequila, take a day off the schedule, go to the beginning of step four. 5. Invite a bunch of out-of towners, teach’em step one, go to step four, somewhere around nymph fishing or dinner (taking care not to skip the beer, and shots). Enjoy everyone flying up and down the stream, throw an attractor fly out there on 2x tippet at dark, sleigh the dragon, 6. sleep, eat, drink, laugh, fish, in no special order….. Remember, it’s evolution, short cuts can be dangerous……. The Finn By the way, step one is the most fun…..

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – is it nap time yet? It’s the last step you want to avoid…. The BIG nap. While postponement is allowed, avoidance simply isn’t tolerated in these parts. Avoidance is a commonly used tactic by me. It works well in lots of situations. Ya think I may need to rethink that strategy on this one?

Nah, go for it.  Keep us posted on how it works out. Wolfgang eagerly awaiting the first installment at penn’s.      :)

Response:

<SNIP You obviously haven’t read the latest in magnetic immortality theory. http://www.alexchiu.com/

TL MC

Response:

is it nap time yet? It’s the last step you want to avoid…. The BIG nap. While postponement is allowed, avoidance simply isn’t tolerated in these parts.

Avoidance is a commonly used tactic by me. It works well in lots of situations. Ya think I may need to rethink that strategy on this one? Willi

Response:

Question:

1996 Astro 15 footer 90 HP mercury outboard motorguide RF trolling motor custom cover custom trailor.                                $7995.00 Call Tom Bauer 1-908-686-2800

Response:

Hi Guys, I just started coming to this news group in addition to the fly fishing newsgroups I subscribe to.  I was once such a hard core bass fisherman that I never went fishing without my boat.  Now I do both stream and lake fishing with my first love being fishing for bass and preferably with a fly rod. Being on this group is great!  However, I am surprised at the amount of advertising showing up here.  Is this a valid forum for advertising your used fishing gear? Pete

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1996 Astro 15 footer 90 HP mercury outboard motorguide RF trolling motor custom cover custom trailor.                                $7995.00 Call Tom Bauer 1-908-686-2800

Response:

I believe personal gear is ok.  Trying to pass off comercial for personal is a no no. Brian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Guys, I just started coming to this news group in addition to the fly fishing newsgroups I subscribe to.  I was once such a hard core bass fisherman that I never went fishing without my boat.  Now I do both stream and lake fishing with my first love being fishing for bass and preferably with a fly rod. Being on this group is great!  However, I am surprised at the amount of advertising showing up here.  Is this a valid forum for advertising your used fishing gear? Pete 1996 Astro 15 footer 90 HP mercury outboard motorguide RF trolling motor custom cover custom trailor.                                $7995.00 Call Tom Bauer 1-908-686-2800

Response:

The Guidelines allows posting of personal advertisements, as long as the subject specifies ‘For Sale.’ — Go fishing. And may your fish be as big as your tales!    Columbia SC, Lake Murray

Response:

Thanks. Pete

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Guidelines allows posting of personal advertisements, as long as the subject specifies ‘For Sale.’ — Go fishing. And may your fish be as big as your tales!    Columbia SC, Lake Murray

Response:

Question:

I was just wondering how good flurocarbon tippet is.  I just can’t decide if I want to risk dropping the money and it turns out like crap.  I usually carry at least 5 spools of tippet material and it would be a costly venture, especially when there are so many more tying materials that I want (does it ever stop?!?!). I have heard how it goes bad in sunlight.  Any other drawbacks?  What are the benefits?  This is not a troll, just want some info. Thanks for the input (should I receive any), Warren

Response:

Warren writes:

(brevity snip) <<I have heard how it goes bad in sunlight.  Any other drawbacks?  What are the benefits?  This is not a troll, just want some info. I don’t think it is as prone to UV (sunlight) damage as mono is. The only drawback (very slight) is that it doesn’t float.  I usually gink mine up to within five inches of the dry fly.  Benefits:  It’s refractive index is very close to that of water, making it almost invisible to the fish.  I have found that I can drop down one size (i.e. 6x to 5x or even 4x) with the same results.  It is stiffer than mono and less prone to twisting. Go to www.dejanews.com and look up "flurocarbon tippet".  There was an exhaustive thread on it not too long ago. Dave LaCourse

Response:

It works great for me!  I use it everywhere.  Perfect for salt or fresh. Forrest – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just wondering how good flurocarbon tippet is.  I just can’t decide if I want to risk dropping the money and it turns out like crap.  I usually carry at least 5 spools of tippet material and it would be a costly venture, especially when there are so many more tying materials that I want (does it ever stop?!?!). I have heard how it goes bad in sunlight.  Any other drawbacks?  What are the benefits?  This is not a troll, just want some info. Thanks for the input (should I receive any), Warren

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I was told that flurocarbon is more abrasion resistant. If that’s the case I would definetly look into it. Can’t say that I know though. Is it? Have a good one,     Jeff Jowers     Revelation 3:20 Many times I’ve seen why they call it fishing, not catching.

Response:

I bought some Orvis Mirage knotted leaders (9′, 12lb) last year out of their sale flyer. I tried them one day while fishing for stripers with a friend. I was catching many more fish than he. I gave him one of the leaders (it was his boat) and he started getting as many fish as I. Then the past few times I was fishing the swift I was using 8x maxima ultra green tippet and the fish were avoiding my flies while the guy down stream with the same fly was catching fish on 5X flurocarbon. I think it does make a difference. The stuff really does disappear in water so it can’t hurt. sf

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just wondering how good flurocarbon tippet is.  I just can’t decide if I want to risk dropping the money and it turns out like crap.  I usually carry at least 5 spools of tippet material and it would be a costly venture, especially when there are so many more tying materials that I want (does it ever stop?!?!). I have heard how it goes bad in sunlight.  Any other drawbacks?  What are the benefits?  This is not a troll, just want some info. Thanks for the input (should I receive any), Warren

Response:

I bought some Orvis Mirage knotted leaders (9′, 12lb) last year out of their sale flyer. I tried them one day while fishing for stripers with a friend. I was catching many more fish than he. I gave him one of the leaders (it was his boat) and he started getting as many fish as I.

Yup – I remember that. I was using dark Maxima as usual, but on that day the fish were thumbing their beaks at me. The Mirage did seem to turn the tide, so to speak… And it’s always a good thing to give the Captain a boost if his luck is off: it’s usually a long walk back to shore ;^) /daytripper (ps to sf: I’ll be on the Cape of Cod all next week, we’ll do the ‘Mack again when I get back)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I bought some Orvis Mirage knotted leaders (9′, 12lb) last year out of their sale flyer. I tried them one day while fishing for stripers with a friend. I was catching many more fish than he. I gave him one of the leaders (it was his boat) and he started getting as many fish as I. Then the past few times I was fishing the swift I was using 8x maxima ultra green tippet and the fish were avoiding my flies while the guy down stream with the same fly was catching fish on 5X flurocarbon. I think it does make a difference. The stuff really does disappear in water so it can’t hurt. sf I was just wondering how good flurocarbon tippet is.  I just can’t decide if I want to risk dropping the money and it turns out like crap.  I usually carry at least 5 spools of tippet material and it would be a costly venture, especially when there are so many more tying materials that I want (does it ever stop?!?!). I have heard how it goes bad in sunlight.  Any other drawbacks?  What are the benefits?  This is not a troll, just want some info. Thanks for the input (should I receive any), Warren

determines its invisibility first and then color. I’m sure I will be reading soon about tippet material that is .0002 in diameter which has a breaking strength of 125 pounds.   Great sport. — Mr. G.   ‘all’s fair with fur or feather’ http://www.gink.com http://www.rodbuilding.com http://www.xink.com 509-243-4100 or 5500

Question:

So, if I declare war on Mr. G before I were to shoot him, this would be justifiable homicide and not REDRUM! Opie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it becomes a murderer.  Like it or not.

Response:

What does any of this have to do with fly fishing? Is there fly fishing to be done in the persian gulf? Should we hire a guide? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, if I declare war on Mr. G before I were to shoot him, this would be justifiable homicide and not REDRUM! Opie it becomes a murderer.  Like it or not.

Response:

What does any of this have to do with fly fishing? Is there fly fishing to be done in the persian gulf? Should we hire a guide?

        Aww, don’t be such a Jesuit. To paraphrase someone, an overly fanatic attention to neatness is a sign of an unhealthy mind. A little variation on a theme

Question:

Hi I was wondering if any person knows any flats in Cozumel for bones done on a budget?? Also if Isla Mujeres has any wadable flats nearby? Thanks alot Sam I am

Hi, You can catch bones on the north end of Cozumel any time of the year. There are lots of guides on the island. I have not heard of anyone driving there yet as the roads don’t go there. Get a guide for a half day trip in the morning as that is the best fishing anyway. If you shop around you might get a guide for $150/half-day. I was out on Isla Mujeres, but didn’t see any flats. I don’t know about any guides there, but it has a big lagoon. We have been fishing a great lagoon system about an hour north of Cancun with schools of small tarpon from 5 to 30 pounds in clear shallow water. Guides can pick you up at 5am at your hotel in Cancun and take you out for the day. Call Fred at Rod & Reel Adventures to book any of these guides. 800/356-6982 Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Hi I was wondering if any person knows any flats in Cozumel for bones done on a budget?? Also if Isla Mujeres has any wadable flats nearby? Thanks alot Sam I am

Response:

There are three areas at the north end of Cozumel Island. There are lots of bonefish, although not trophy size. At least I haven’t caught one. They are large enough to make your reel sing and make you wonder if you have enough backing. I have heard that you can drive there but I don’t know for sure. I don’t have the name of the guide I use. You can ask around at the marina.

Response:

Question:

This summer I fished the interior of B.C.,I came across a small flyshop out of 100 mile house that was selling weird looking leaders. The leaders had a clear rubber section in it about 6 in. Has anybody seen this type of leader before? What is it’s advantage or disadvantages? I think they look like a gimmic,since they were $6.00 Canadian for a single pack. -I fish because I love to; because I love the environs where trout are found, which are invariably beautiful….and….not because I regard fishing as so terribly important, but because I suspect that so many of the other concerns of men are equally unimportant and not nearly so much fun…. R.Traver

Response:

Frank: It’s probably a version of a "bungee-type" leader used to land big fish on small tippets. The "rubber" absorbs the shock and allows you to fight a heavier fish than you normally would if the "rubber" wasn’t there. The concept is used quite often by those trying for International Game Fish Assoc. (IGFA) records with 2# or 4# tippets. RIO sells small spools of the "bungee" material, so you can construct your own custom leaders. Hope this helps. Bob E. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This summer I fished the interior of B.C.,I came across a small flyshop out of 100 mile house that was selling weird looking leaders. The leaders had a clear rubber section in it about 6 in. Has anybody seen this type of leader before? What is it’s advantage or disadvantages? I think they look like a gimmic,since they were $6.00 Canadian for a single pack.

Response:

This summer I fished the interior of B.C.,I came across a small flyshop out of 100 mile house that was selling weird looking leaders. The leaders had a clear rubber section in it about 6 in. Has anybody seen this type of leader before? What is it’s advantage or disadvantages? I think they look like a gimmic,since they were $6.00 Canadian for a single pack. -I fish because I love to; because I love the environs where trout are found, which are invariably beautiful….and….not because I regard fishing as so terribly important, but because I suspect that so many of the other concerns of men are equally unimportant and not nearly so much fun…. R.Traver

Rio makes the Shock Gum leaders and sells spools of the Shock Gum. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

That sound like a shock leader to be.  Some fishermen here in Oregon when fishing for hard striking fish like sea-run cutthroat or Kokanee will include in their gear a 6 inch section of rubber tubing that will strech and absorb the shock of a hard strike instead of snapping the leader. -Burton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This summer I fished the interior of B.C.,I came across a small flyshop out of 100 mile house that was selling weird looking leaders. The leaders had a clear rubber section in it about 6 in. Has anybody seen this type of leader before? What is it’s advantage or disadvantages? I think they look like a gimmic,since they were $6.00 Canadian for a single pack. -I fish because I love to; because I love the environs where trout are found, which are invariably beautiful….and….not because I regard fishing as so terribly important, but because I suspect that so many of the other concerns of men are equally unimportant and not nearly so much fun…. R.Traver

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -That sound like a shock leader to be.  Some fishermen here in Oregon when fishing for hard striking fish like sea-run cutthroat or Kokanee will include in their gear a 6 inch section of rubber tubing that will strech and absorb the shock of a hard strike instead of snapping the leader. -Burton This summer I fished the interior of B.C.,I came across a small flyshop out of 100 mile house that was selling weird looking leaders. The leaders had a clear rubber section in it about 6 in. Has anybody seen this type of leader before? What is it’s advantage or disadvantages? I think they look like a gimmic,since they were $6.00 Canadian for a single pack. -I fish because I love to; because I love the environs where trout are found, which are invariably beautiful….and….not because I regard fishing as s

Used to be a company out of Montana called Beartooth that sold a leader with a short clear rubber like section tied into a braided leader. I had a couple. Idea was to provide stretch and reduce tippet breaks. I haven’t seen these for a while and after using them I short regarded them as Rube Goldberg devices; impressive but of no real value or utility. Ralph H

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That sound like a shock leader to be.  Some fishermen here in Oregon when What is it’s advantage or disadvantages? I think they look like a gimmic,since they were $6.00 Canadian for a single pack. -I fish because I love to; because I love the environs where trout are found, which are invariably beautiful….and….not because I regard fishing as s Used to be a company out of Montana called Beartooth that sold a leader with a short clear rubber like section tied into a braided leader. I had a couple. Idea was to provide stretch and reduce tippet breaks. I haven’t seen these for a while and after using them I short regarded them as Rube Goldberg devices; impressive but of no real value or utility. Ralph H

I seem to remember a humor column in one of the fishing magazines a few years back where the hero invents a leader that has stretch in it to protect his tippets.  The first thing he caught with it was a rattle snake.   Quite humorous all of his antics to try to break of a angry snake.   Patrick McManus?  Maybe, I don’t really remember. Steve My Rod and Reel They comfort me.

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lord, suffer me to catch a fish so big that even I, in the telling of it, will not be able to lie. …but give me the strength to lie anyway. TimW Yeah, ’cause if you don’t someone else will do it for you.  A few year back I landed a beautiful "27 inch" rainbow.  I felt like it was 25 in. but my fishing partner was convinced it was 27.  So everone in town heard about my "27 in." fish.  There’s even a plack on the wall of the Sisters Fly Shop with my name and the data on the fish.  Arrgh!  Oh well….

Burton, go ahead and lie man.  You’re an angler.  If you told me the fish was 27, I’d (being an angler) adjust it down anyway, I’d probably assume that by "27 inch rainbow" you really mean "12 inch whitefish", anyway.   TimW

Response:

Burton, go ahead and lie man.  You’re an angler.  If you told me the fish was 27, I’d (being an angler) adjust it down anyway, I’d probably assume that by "27 inch rainbow" you really mean "12 inch whitefish", anyway.

Reminds me of one: "Fishing is a delusion completely surrounded by liars in old clothes"–Don Marquis

Response:

Burton, go ahead and lie man.  You’re an angler.  If you told me the fish was 27, I’d (being an angler) adjust it down anyway, I’d probably assume that by "27 inch rainbow" you really mean "12 inch whitefish", anyway. Reminds me of one: "Fishing is a delusion completely surrounded by liars in old clothes"–Don Marquis

Howabout, "All fishermen are liars, except you and me….. And, I’m not too sure about you." Charley

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lord, suffer me to catch a fish so big that even I, in the telling of it, will not be able to lie. …but give me the strength to lie anyway. TimW Yeah, ’cause if you don’t someone else will do it for you.  A few year back I landed a beautiful "27 inch" rainbow.  I felt like it was 25 in. but my fishing partner was convinced it was 27.  So everone in town heard Burton, go ahead and lie man.  You’re an angler.  If you told me the fish was 27, I’d (being an angler) adjust it down anyway, I’d probably assume that by "27 inch rainbow" you really mean "12 inch whitefish", anyway.   TimW

Fortunately I have a couple of nice photos of the two of us. Burton

Response:

Burton, go ahead and lie man.  You’re an angler.  If you told me the fish was 27, I’d (being an angler) adjust it down anyway, I’d probably assume that by "27 inch rainbow" you really mean "12 inch whitefish", anyway. Reminds me of one: "Fishing is a delusion completely surrounded by liars in old clothes"–Don Marquis

That’s pretty good!  I like my "state of delusion"! -Burton

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lord, suffer me to catch a fish so big that even I, in the telling of it, will not be able to lie. …but give me the strength to lie anyway. TimW Yeah, ’cause if you don’t someone else will do it for you.  A few year back I landed a beautiful "27 inch" rainbow.  I felt like it was 25 in. but my fishing partner was convinced it was 27.  So everone in town heard Burton, go ahead and lie man.  You’re an angler.  If you told me the fish was 27, I’d (being an angler) adjust it down anyway, I’d probably assume that by "27 inch rainbow" you really mean "12 inch whitefish", anyway. TimW Fortunately I have a couple of nice photos of the two of us.

Well then post ‘em in alt.binaries.pictures.fishin !!!!! Course, you coulda used that ’stretch’ tool in PhotoShop !!! Hell, I have a picture of a fur-bearing trout on the wall.   Therefore they must exist, right… TimW

Response:

  Burton, go ahead and lie man.  You’re an angler.  If you told me the fish was 27, I’d (being an angler) adjust it down anyway, I’d probably assume that by "27 inch rainbow" you really mean "12 inch whitefish", anyway.   TimW Fortunately I have a couple of nice photos of the two of us. Burton

The voyuer in me wants to see it on alt.binaries.pictures.fishning but my ISP is slow on the switch so I’ll have to use my imagination! Mike

Response:

Fortunately I have a couple of nice photos of the two of us. Well then post ‘em in alt.binaries.pictures.fishin !!!!! Course, you coulda used that ’stretch’ tool in PhotoShop !!! Hell, I have a picture of a fur-bearing trout on the wall.   Therefore they must exist, right… TimW

Sure, sure!  Sort of like a jackalope, huh! Burton

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Burton, go ahead and lie man.  You’re an angler.  If you told me the 27, I’d (being an angler) adjust it down anyway, I’d probably assume that by "27 inch rainbow" you really mean "12 inch whitefish", anyway.   TimW Fortunately I have a couple of nice photos of the two of us. Burton The voyuer in me wants to see it on alt.binaries.pictures.fishning but my ISP is slow on the switch so I’ll have to use my imagination! Mike

Hi Mike, Just to help your imagination, she had more dark spots on her olive back than I have ever seen on a fish before.  And the bright band of scarlet running down her side must have been an inch and half wide.  Her gill plates bright scarlet all over and even the pectoral and anal fins were red.  A great example of spawning colors.  The fish took a #14 tan-olive scud.  When I saw that yaw as she took the fly, I thought I was going to faint. -Burton

Response:

You know, the apron-ruler on my JW tube begins with a ‘1′ on the very first mark.  I don’t even need to lie, usually. Dave

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The voyuer in me wants to see it on alt.binaries.pictures.fishning but my ISP is slow on the switch so I’ll have to use my imagination! Mike Hi Mike, Just to help your imagination, she had more dark spots on her olive back than I have ever seen on a fish before.  And the bright band of scarlet running down her side must have been an inch and half wide.  Her gill plates bright scarlet all over and even the pectoral and anal fins were red.  A great example of spawning colors.  The fish took a #14 tan-olive scud.  When I saw that yaw as she took the fly, I thought I was going to faint. -Burton

Hell, I almost fainted when you got to the pectoral and anal fins.  WHEW, gotta get out more.   Thanks for the cheap thrill!  : Mike

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fortunately I have a couple of nice photos of the two of us. Well then post ‘em in alt.binaries.pictures.fishin !!!!! Course, you coulda used that ’stretch’ tool in PhotoShop !!! Hell, I have a picture of a fur-bearing trout on the wall. Therefore they must exist, right… TimW Sure, sure!  Sort of like a jackalope, huh!

I’ve got one of those on the wall too.   Nice 6 point buck. TimW

Response:

You know, the apron-ruler on my JW tube begins with a ‘1′ on the very first mark.  I don’t even need to lie, usually.

Oh…, that’s really good!  An automatic liar built in.  I had better go check my Buck’s Bag.  ;-) -Burton

Response:

====== Sure, sure!  Sort of like a jackalope, huh! I’ve got one of those on the wall too.   TimW

Whoa, you are too cool dude!! -Burton

Response:

Howabout, "All fishermen are liars, except you and me….. And, I’m not too sure about you."

Or one of my recent favorites (paraphrasing at this point), "The only doubt cast upon the miracles of Jesus is that they were all witnessed by fishermen." I don’t know why, but that really cracks me up… "I swear to you, it was wine, man. I was there!!!" Ross Wilson (no email at the moment)

Response:

Lord, suffer me to catch a fish so big that even I, in the telling of it, will not be able to lie.

Response:

Lord, suffer me to catch a fish so big that even I, in the telling of it, will not be able to lie.

Hi Great though! — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

Lord, suffer me to catch a fish so big that even I, in the telling of it, will not be able to lie.

I’ve long supported catch & release management of our fisheries. Most of the fish I catch are simply too heavy to carry anyway.                                                        __ john quill taylor                                     / / writer at large                                      / /   Hewlett-Packard, Storage Systems Division    __     /_/ / Boise, Idaho U.S.A.                         /_/  __ _ Telephone: (208) 396-2328 (MST = GMT – 7)     /  \  / Snail Mail: Hewlett-Packard                    / \             11413 Chinden Blvd                 \             Boise, Idaho 83714                   _/             Mailstop 852                            _/                                                   _/       "When in doubt, do as doubters do." – jqt –                   china, haiti, rwanda, cuba, bosnia, … we have a list,              where is our schindler?

Response:

Lord, suffer me to catch a fish so big that even I, in the telling of it, will not be able to lie.

…but give me the strength to lie anyway. TimW

Response:

God, don’t let me fuck up. (yours truly, when playing a 20" brown in the Firehole last July.) -AR

Response:

Lord, suffer me to catch a fish so big that even I, in the telling of it, will not be able to lie. …but give me the strength to lie anyway. TimW

Yeah, ’cause if you don’t someone else will do it for you.  A few year back I landed a beautiful "27 inch" rainbow.  I felt like it was 25 in. but my fishing partner was convinced it was 27.  So everone in town heard about my "27 in." fish.  There’s even a plack on the wall of the Sisters Fly Shop with my name and the data on the fish.  Arrgh!  Oh well…. -Burton

Response:

Question:

   To All;   I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.    Harry

Response:

  To All;  I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.   Harry

Hi Harry, I offer my ideas regarding the 5 things that make a high quality fly from my perspective, a commercial fly tier: 1. Durability – quality materials, strong hook, etc. 2. Proper proportions, tail length, hackle, etc. 3. Attractive to the fly fisher 4. Attractive to the fish 5. Will sell It will be interesting to see what other fly tiers/fisher think. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

   To All;   I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.    Harry

Harry,         Here’s my list of the five characteristics of a good quality fly: Durability – It has to last.  This isn’t art for art’s sake. Ease of tying – The point is to go fishing sometime this century.  I         lose enough flies that I need to tie more than one per day. Bugginess – Oh, that elusive quality.  If it doesn’t "look buggy" it         probably will never get tied on my tippet.  I’ve carried flies         for years that just don’t get a rise out of me. Availability of Ingredients – Part of this is my frugality.  But, part         is my ecological awareness.  If I’m going to have to spend         my tying and fishing time tracking down materials, I’m outta         here. Catches Fish – Course, before I know this, I’ve tracked down the         materials, easily tied the fly, am confident in its durability,         and have tied it on my tippet.  But, hey, this is what we’re         doing this for, isn’t it? Charley

Response:

  To All;  I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.   Harry

Reply Never counted my reasons. 1. Do I enjoy tying the fly? 2. Does it REALLY require all of those materials that I don’t have? Can I sub. and    still have a good looking fly that will work. 3. Do I have confidence in the fly. 4. Do I need another fly like this one. How many of this type do I already carry that    I don’t use now. 5. And back to # 1. If I like to tie the fly thats what matters. I’m here for just      the fun.  CU, Steve Birkes Buckner, Mo.

Response:

  To All;  I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.

I can boil it down to just three things: 1.  It has to catch fish. 2.  It has to catch fish. 3.  It has to catch fish. Larry H.

Response:

I fish mainly in still waters and I fine one other quality to be of importance when tying.I like to call this Pulsability; giving the illusion of a bubbling, pulsating, swimming creature. John Hafner

Response:

Harry, as a former pro tyer I would have to say it’s more a case of WHO makes a good fly. Style and expertise does not come to everyone, even if you have the correct materials for any given pattern.   To All;  I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.   Harry

– dave tait

Response:

I fish mainly in still waters and I fine one other quality to be of importance when tying.I like to call this Pulsability; giving the illusion of a bubbling, pulsating, swimming creature. John Hafner

A good fly should take less time to tie than it does to lose it.    -Ralph —

Response:

  To All;  I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.   Harry

1. proportion 2. balance 3. durability 4. castability 5. silouette these are what i shoot for when tying flies for stripers, etc. shade/color would probably come in 6th for me.                                                 jc

Response:

        Does it catch fish?         That, essentially, is the bottom line.

Response:

        Does it catch fish?         That, essentially, is the bottom line.

Yes, but,…… There are lots of flies out there that catch marlin, peacock bass, sharks, etc.  They catch fish, but are not a good fly for me.  I don’t get to sea too often.  And, when I do, I’m usually looking for salmon! So, now we have to add the delimiter, "Does it catch the fish I’m after?". This is such a complex question! :^) Charley

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         Does it catch fish?         That, essentially, is the bottom line. Yes, but,…… There are lots of flies out there that catch marlin, peacock bass, sharks, etc.  They catch fish, but are not a good fly for me.  I don’t get to sea too often.  And, when I do, I’m usually looking for salmon! So, now we have to add the delimiter, "Does it catch the fish I’m after?". This is such a complex question! :^) Charley

Hi Charley, Good point Charley! My flies always catch the fish I’m after IF i’m telling the story.?! Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

Al Beatty said: Hi Charley, Good point Charley! My flies always catch the fish I’m after IF i’m telling the story.?!

Cheers for Al’s honesty.  I will add that if they don’t, I damn quick change the story. Dick Hubbard

Response:

   To All;   I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.    Harry

Harry: 1. Ease of tying: most of us fit fly tying between the responsibilities work, running a home, and the ten o’clock news. Functional patterns are not necessarily a compromise. You can crank out a dozen brown-hackle-peacocks or BWO compara duns in the time it takes to tie half-as-many extended body paradrakes. This is not to say you don’t need extended body paradrakes–just save the more involved patterns for those rare occasions when you have a few hours to spend on the vice. 2. Proportions and technique: Spend time understanding how to size hackle and dimension tails; without such understanding, you can easily turn a humpy into a spider. Study A. K. Best’s "Production Fly Tying." He explains technique in this book, not recipes for ties (this book is made most valuable as a reference source: when you’re lashing down a moose mane tail, you can consult the book for a brief technique refresher before you begin, and your flies look a little better for your trouble). 3. Materials: Garbage in, garbage out. Webby dry fly hackle, too soft biots, it doesn’t matter. There’s nothing you can do to disguise poor materials. 4. Hooks: I used to recycle hooks but quit when I discovered that hooks grow weaker in boxes–every time your fly box gets submerged, the hooks will weaken from rust, particularly where the bend enters foam. I prefer Tiemco (particularly the 200R) and Daichi hooks. 5. Bottom Line: tie patterns that have proved their worth on the waters you fish. While just about any pattern will work at one time or another, there are a lot of useless diversions out there. Get to know old timers and knowledgable guides. They’ll turn you on to patterns you won’t find in books. Mitch Mulhall

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    To All;   I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.    Harry Harry: 1. Ease of tying: most of us fit fly tying between the responsibilities work, running a home, and the ten o’clock news. Functional patterns are not necessarily a compromise. You can crank out a dozen brown-hackle-peacocks or BWO compara duns in the time it takes to tie half-as-many extended body paradrakes. This is not to say you don’t need extended body paradrakes–just save the more involved patterns for those rare occasions when you have a few hours to spend on the vice. 2. Proportions and technique: Spend time understanding how to size hackle and dimension tails; without such understanding, you can easily turn a humpy into a spider. Study A. K. Best’s "Production Fly Tying." He explains technique in this book, not recipes for ties (this book is made most valuable as a reference source: when you’re lashing down a moose mane tail, you can consult the book for a brief technique refresher before you begin, and your flies look a little better for your trouble). 3. Materials: Garbage in, garbage out. Webby dry fly hackle, too soft biots, it doesn’t matter. There’s nothing you can do to disguise poor materials. 4. Hooks: I used to recycle hooks but quit when I discovered that hooks grow weaker in boxes–every time your fly box gets submerged, the hooks will weaken from rust, particularly where the bend enters foam. I prefer Tiemco (particularly the 200R) and Daichi hooks. 5. Bottom Line: tie patterns that have proved their worth on the waters you fish. While just about any pattern will work at one time or another, there are a lot of useless diversions out there. Get to know old timers and knowledgable guides. They’ll turn you on to patterns you won’t find in books. Mitch Mulhall

  To Mitch and all who took the time to reply, thank you !!  I will take these notes to the start of yet another class Thursday night.   Again Thanks    Harry

Response:

Question:

I look in over Google from time to time, but I don