Question:

As for imparting a "taste," they can make a fly taste bitter, but after the numbness sets in, you really don’t notice it that much.

                  to the max. your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

    I use Rain-X brand windshield treatment. It seems to be pretty much the same stuff as WaterShed, but for the same price as WaterShed you get about ten times more.

I got some Rain-x to try on some flies, on your suggestion. I haven’t had the chance to try it on any flies yet, but it worked wonders on the old pitted windshield on my van. Thanks Willi

Response:

<< I’m wondering if anybody waterproof’s their dry flies, by which I mean some sort of post-tying, pre-fishing treatment << Does anyone have any experience with this? Do you think it leaves a "taste" on the fly? Any products to recommend or experiences to share? I use Water Shed on dry flys, when I have time to let it dry.  It seems to me to help, noticeably. I doubt that trout have time (generally) to taste a coating on a dry fly even if it is still wet, unless it somehow leaves a significant slick around the fly. Glenn GKT

Response:

I’m wondering if anybody waterproof’s their dry flies, by which I mean some sort of post-tying, pre-fishing treatment. My local fly shop was trying to sell me something (the guy is _always_ on to some new product). I’ve also seen it suggested that spraying dries with a coat of Scotchguard (sp?) helps. Does anyone have any experience with this? Do you think it leaves a "taste" on the fly? Any products to recommend or experiences to share?

I use Hydrostop, although I’ll probably try Rain-X soon, thanks to Charlie W’s tip. These treatments have worked well for me. About the only thing that seems to defeat them is fish slime, and a few shakes in a powder/crystal floatant solves that problem very easily. As for imparting a "taste," they can make a fly taste bitter, but after the numbness sets in, you really don’t notice it that much. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

So has any one else used Rain-x with success Don I haven’t had the chance to try it on any flies yet, but it worked wonders on the old pitted windshield on my van. Be sure to use that stuff outside the house. Big Dale

Haven’t used that, but bought a spray can of Thompson’s Water Seal and it works great.  I have used it on my old canvas tent years ago and it worked good on that too.

Response:

I use a goop called water shed…I think thats whats called.  Anyway this stuff is  permanant and will not come off.  The only drawback is that it needs at least 24 hours to cure…give it shot.  i think I paid around 3 or 4 dollars for it Go Oregon Ducks…The  Big Green Scoring Machine

Response:

I use a goop called water shed…I think thats whats called.  Anyway this stuff is  permanant and will not come off.  The only drawback is that it needs at least 24 hours to cure…give it shot.  i think I paid around 3 or 4 dollars for it Go Oregon Ducks…The  Big Green Scoring Machine

So far it hasn’t impressed me much. I still have to grease my flies Flyfish

Response:

    Rain-X comes in a squirt bottle. When I’ve finished tying a whole bunch of dries I place them in a small glass jar and spray them with Rain-X, then I shake them up real well to get them all saturated. I then dump them on a sheet of paper and let them dry for a day before putting them in fly

boxes. I got some Rain-X at the store last weekend. I’ll probably just refill my Hydrostop jar with it and soak ‘em that way. For drying the saturated flies, I hang them from a sort of clothesline I made just for that purpose. Lets the liquid sink into the flies instead of wicking away into the paper. Letting them dry for a full day is important, at least with Hydrostop. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

My dad used to make a concoction to waterproof his flies out of kerosene and parafin wax.  He would shave the wax and let it melt and then add the kerosene to the solution and then soak the flies in the mix.  Not sure the proportions nor how he melted the wax and then added the kerosene. He tried to get me to heat up the kerosene with the wax on the stove at the same time… but then I was never his favortie! <g

Response:

So has any one else used Rain-x with success Don – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – haven’t had the chance to try it on any flies yet, but it worked wonders on the old pitted windshield on my van. Be sure to use that stuff outside the house. Big Dale

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I use Rain-X brand windshield treatment. It seems to be pretty much the same stuff as WaterShed, but for the same price as WaterShed you get about ten times more. I recently paid more than $6 for an ounce of Hydrostop while the Rain-X was sitting in my garage the whole time (ignorance is _not_ bliss)!  Do you find that Rain-X is best applied in the same manner as Hydrostop or Watershed, or do you use some other method?  Thanks for any input.

    Rain-X comes in a squirt bottle. When I’ve finished tying a whole bunch of dries I place them in a small glass jar and spray them with Rain-X, then I shake them up real well to get them all saturated. I then dump them on a sheet of paper and let them dry for a day before putting them in fly boxes.

Response:

I got some Rain-x to try on some flies, on your suggestion. I haven’t had the chance to try it on any flies yet, but it worked wonders on the old pitted windshield on my van. Thanks Willi

I used that stuff on my truck when it was new.  Put a base sticker on the windshield.  Base sticker couldn’t handle the Rain-X.  Peeled off somewhere around Cherry Run. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

haven’t had the chance to try it on any flies yet, but it worked wonders on the old pitted windshield on my van.

Be sure to use that stuff outside the house. Big Dale

Response:

I believe that 3M took Scotchguard off the market because it causes cancer. I keep hearing that, but they still advertise it anyway: http://cms.3m.com/cms/US/en/2-78/icFurFS/view.jhtml

I think it has been reformulated, according to cans I’ve seen lately. TC, R

Response:

Weird. I’m sure I heard that they withdrew it. It must have been at least a year ago. I recall that they actually got publicity because they did it on their own initiative, and weren’t forced to by the government, which I guess was unusual. Maybe that’s just an obsolete web page that never got trashed.

Could be just an obsolete reference, or maybe they reformulated it? They did withdraw it in 2000: http://myphlip1.pearsoncmg.com/cw/mpviewce.cfm?vceid=1856&vbcid=4150 — Charlie…

Response:

I believe that 3M took Scotchguard off the market because it causes cancer. I keep hearing that, but they still advertise it anyway: http://cms.3m.com/cms/US/en/2-78/icFurFS/view.jhtml Weird. I’m sure I heard that they withdrew it. It must have been at least a year ago. I recall that they actually got publicity because they did it on their own initiative, and weren’t forced to by the government, which I guess was unusual. Maybe that’s just an obsolete web page that never got trashed.

They have apparently created a *new* formula for the product under the same name.   http://products.3m.com/usenglish/home_leisure/home_leisure.jhtml? powurl=Z2GT0H3KWKbeGSHCV1ZFXKgeGST1T4S9TCgvV2G53V0FBRgl

Response:

Hello, I’m wondering if anybody waterproof’s their dry flies, by which I mean some sort of post-tying, pre-fishing treatment. My local fly shop was trying to sell me something (the guy is _always_ on to some new product). I’ve also seen it suggested that spraying dries with a coat of Scotchguard (sp?) helps. Does anyone have any experience with this? Do you think it leaves a "taste" on the fly? Any products to recommend or experiences to share?

    I use Rain-X brand windshield treatment. It seems to be pretty much the same stuff as WaterShed, but for the same price as WaterShed you get about ten times more.

Response:

I use shoe-waterproofing silicone liquid.  "Cavalier Ever-Dri" at the moment, but I suspect all brands are the same. Rather than dip the flies in it, I use a cheap "artrist’s brush"  to daub it on the fly.  That not only saves the stuff, but makes it possible to paint the flotating parts of an emerger but not the sinking parts. When I posted this some months ago, someone else said it doesn’t work very well, but it seems OK to me. vince

Response:

Hello, I’m wondering if anybody waterproof’s their dry flies, by which I mean some sort of post-tying, pre-fishing treatment. My local fly shop was trying to sell me something (the guy is _always_ on to some new product). I’ve also seen it suggested that spraying dries with a coat of Scotchguard (sp?) helps. Does anyone have any experience with this? Do you think it leaves a "taste" on the fly? Any products to recommend or experiences to share? thanks, TyKo

Response:

I’ve also seen it suggested that spraying dries with a coat of Scotchguard (sp?) helps.

I believe that 3M took Scotchguard off the market because it causes cancer. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

… I’m wondering if anybody waterproof’s their dry flies, …

I rub in a drop or two of Water Shed when I take my dry flies out of the vise. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Hello, I’m wondering if anybody waterproof’s their dry flies, by which I mean some sort of post-tying, pre-fishing treatment. My local fly shop was trying to sell me something (the guy is _always_ on to some new product). I’ve also seen it suggested that spraying dries with a coat of Scotchguard (sp?) helps. Does anyone have any experience with this? Do you think it leaves a "taste" on the fly? Any products to recommend or experiences to share?

I use a product called "Water Shed."  It’s billed as a "Pre Fishing Treatmetnt for Flies, Tying Materials, Leaders and Lines."  Works pretty good IMO. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

I believe that 3M took Scotchguard off the market because it causes cancer. I keep hearing that, but they still advertise it anyway: http://cms.3m.com/cms/US/en/2-78/icFurFS/view.jhtml

Weird. I’m sure I heard that they withdrew it. It must have been at least a year ago. I recall that they actually got publicity because they did it on their own initiative, and weren’t forced to by the government, which I guess was unusual. Maybe that’s just an obsolete web page that never got trashed. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I believe that 3M took Scotchguard off the market because it causes cancer.

I keep hearing that, but they still advertise it anyway: http://cms.3m.com/cms/US/en/2-78/icFurFS/view.jhtml — Charlie…

Response:

Question:

Got an Inside Passage cruise booked for the week of June 15th with my wife and kids, my parents and my brothers.  The boys are looking for some fly fishing opportunities when we are in any and all ports.  Does anyone have any recommendations for locations, guides, or do-it-yourself tips for Seward, Skagway, Ketchikan, orJuneau?  Thanks.  ~  The other "Bob A"

Response:

Bob A. (the other one) writes: Got an Inside Passage cruise booked for the week of June 15th with my wife and kids, my parents and my brothers.  The boys are looking for some fly fishing opportunities when we are in any and all ports.  Does anyone have any recommendations for locations, guides, or do-it-yourself tips for Seward, Skagway, Ketchikan, orJuneau?  Thanks.  ~  The other "Bob A"

Go to:  http://www.google.com/ Type in the above towns, one at a time, within quotes, and + "fly fishing" i.e. "seward" + "fly fishing" You’ll get thousands of hits; you will have to go through them and see what is important/interesting to you.  Good luck. Dave

Response:

Question:

But,one can build the body into most of the bend, use hook shape to the advantage of simulation.

That’s true, especially for scuds, caddis pupae, etc.  Still, by far my most productive fly, a bead-head PT on a TMC 3761, has a pretty straight body that takes up no more than half the total hook length (eye to point). I agree with your earlier statement, "On many subsurface patterns, and even some  surface emerger types, the hook bend can serve to mimic the shape of the natural nymph, pupa or whatever", especially for those forms, like emerging pupae that have associated air bubbles.  The hook bend may correspond in the trout’s eye to the curved edge of the bubble or bubble mass.   Although it’s an uncommon fly, compare the picture of the daphnia fly Dave LaCourse found and posted on ROFT http://www.danica.com/flytier/hverhaar/daphnia.htm to photos of daphnia http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/artjun99/wflea.html Without the hook bend, there’d be little resemblance.  Makes you wonder if all those tiny things on curved #24-28 hooks that we think are midge patterns aren’t really taken by the trout as daphnia (not that it really matters). JR

Response:

Some manufacturers are now producing bright gold, green, red and blue salmon/steelhead hooks.  Why waste all that bare metal when you can dress it up?

One wonders if a little metallic paint added to make the hook look more like the tied bug would make a difference.  I might have to try that for fun just to see. Sandy

Response:

Maybe that big curvy part looks like an ovipositor.  See my web site www.sluttyflies.com

Here’s the sex spam we were looking for.  Bugs waving their ovipositors around.  Hmmph. Sandy

Response:

  One wonders if a little metallic paint added to make the hook look more like the tied bug would make a difference.  I might have to try that for fun just to see.

They are starting to make the colored hooks in trout sizes too.  I saw some at a fly shop on the Beaverhead River and Lou Teletski gave me a fly that used a red hook when we went fishing the other day.  I haven’t tried them yet, but I can see how they might benefit a fly tyer. — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

Response:

They are starting to make the colored hooks in trout sizes too.  I saw some at a fly shop on the Beaverhead River and Lou Teletski gave me a fly that used a red hook when we went fishing the other day.  I haven’t tried them yet, but I can see how they might benefit a fly tyer.

Did you see who the hook’s maker was? If someone here’s interested in trying it for themselves, you can buy metallic paint (normally used for jewelry) here: http://www.fancifulsinc.com/ Sandy

Response:

You’d think (regardless of your species-specific sense of perception) that this big ol’ ugly THING just hanging there off the bottom of our handiwork is a lot more obvious than the many fine details we obsess over.  Why on earth would any trout swimming not key on THAT?

Depending on the angle the fish sees it from, yes it’s very obvious and I have no doubt whatever that the trout sees it.  But trout are also very used to seeing things on insects – broken legs and wings, a sliver of leaf or filament of weed, or even a pebble and twig case on a caddis.  The trout sees it and just assumes it’s a harmless piece of flotsam, extra fiber if you will.  Only if a trout has been hooked a number of times would he actually recognize it as a "bad" insect, IMO.

Response:

Did you see who the hook’s maker was? If someone here’s interested in trying it for themselves, you can buy metallic paint (normally used for jewelry) here: http://www.fancifulsinc.com/

The hooks I saw were not labeled.  It looked like the shop had bought them bulk and packaged them in little zip lock bags on their own.  I will call out there tomorrow and find out where they bought them at.  I do recall they were expensive (like $10 for 25 hooks if I remember correctly) so your metallic paint idea might be a very good alternative. — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

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"The trout just assumes it’s a harmless piece of flotsam, extra fiber if you will." "Assumes", to deduce.  The ability to come to a logical conclusion based on facts.   "Trout", to be a genius.  The ability to attend college courses without paying tuitions.  To Trout, as to flaunt wonderful phrases upon non-thinking ass holes who fly fish as a reflex action. "Seeing Trout" extablishes the ability to understand languages such as English. "Feeding Trout", The need to eat with the foreknowledge that to not do so will result in death.   "Dieting Trout", as in "Free Rising" selective trout who know the difference between choosing either a protein insect over one burden with excessive carbohydrates and undesirable fiber. Flyfisherman:  That which has a brain the size of a pea and who talks to the fishes as in Mafia Fisherman.   All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

Response:

Warren Findley: One wonders if a little metallic paint added to make the hook look more like the tied bug would make a difference.  I might have to try that for fun just to see. They are starting to make the colored hooks in trout sizes too.  I saw some at a fly shop on the Beaverhead River and Lou Teletski gave me a fly that used a red hook when we went fishing the other day.  I haven’t tried them yet, but I can see how they might benefit a fly tyer. —

I’ve been using red nymph hooks for five or six years.  It’s the only color I’ve seen in the smaller sizes. As far as glitter is concerned, good old nail polish (Wet and Wild) with the silver or gold flecks in it works well.  Also, Orvis sells some head cement with silver flecks.   Dave

Response:

I’ve been using red nymph hooks for five or six years.  It’s the only color I’ve seen in the smaller sizes. As far as glitter is concerned, good old nail polish (Wet and Wild) with the silver or gold flecks in it works well.  Also, Orvis sells some head cement with silver flecks. Dave

Do you think there’s an advantage in using colored hooks? The nail polish idea is a good one — you can get it in any crazy color these days, and Wet & Wild is pretty cheap, but the clerk at the store might look at you funny. Sandy

Response:

Reading about colored hooks now is a revelation to me Jon and I suppose it makes sense to include the hook coloring of olive, for instance, to add to the tone of an olive caddis emerger, for instance.  It seems this is one of those rare instances where the present generation is going to drag me, screaming and kicking into the future.  I might be an old dog learning new tricks but it doesn’t mean I have to like it. Now if you please, would someone hold my hand down hard upon this table so it won’t lift that shot of Jack Daniels to my quivering lips? Mr. G. All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

Response:

……. But trout are also very used to seeing things on insects – broken legs and wings, a sliver of leaf or filament of weed, or even a pebble and twig case on a caddis.  The trout sees it and just assumes it’s a harmless piece of flotsam, extra fiber if you will.  Only if a trout has been hooked a number of times would he actually recognize it as a "bad" insect, IMO.

Yes, that’s all plausible. JR

Response:

Do you think there’s an advantage in using colored hooks? The nail polish idea is a good one — you can get it in any crazy color these days, and Wet & Wild is pretty cheap, but the clerk at the store might look at you funny.

I called up that fly shop in Dillon and they said the hooks are manufactured by Daiichi.  I checked the Daiichi website and they have red, black, nickel and gold hooks in a variety of styles.  Unfortunately they do not list their hooks that would be of use to fly fishermen so I emailed the company for more information.  Here is a link to their website if you care to take a look. http://www.daiichihooks.com/daiichi/index.html — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

Response:

I called up that fly shop in Dillon and they said the hooks are manufactured by Daiichi.  I checked the Daiichi website and they have red, black, nickel and gold hooks in a variety of styles.  Unfortunately they do not list their hooks that would be of use to fly fishermen so I emailed the company for more information.  Here is a link to their website if you care to take a look. http://www.daiichihooks.com/daiichi/index.html

   Another manufacturer of colored hooks is Gamakatsu (www.gamakatsu.com). I’ve seen them in the local fly shops but never tied with them, but I’ll vouch for the quality of their product. I was a serious ocean/big game fisherman in a past life; Gamakatsu and Owner were the only hooks I’d use.

Response:

Warren?  Wouldn’t you t hink a gold hook would most likely be like adding gold tinsel to a fly?  I don’t know. George All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

Response:

I think, but have no proof for it, that hook recognition develops in fish over time and that this is a major part of what we anglers call "selective behavior". I feel this is mostly a factor with flies at/near the surface, and more an issue in slower, richer streams that offer more time for the fish to observe their prey. On many subsurface patterns, and even some surface emerger types, the hook bend can serve to mimic the shape of the natural nymph,pupa or whatever.

I agree it’s mostly a factor in slower, richer streams.  I’d have thought, though, it was also more important with subsurface flies than with dries, first because the "profile" of the bend is reduced when viewed from below, and second because, as well described by Peter in the Fly Perceptions thread, it may be that the bare part of the hook is somewhat masked by the dimples and associated halos caused by the hackle and tail. JR

Response:

When I first read the header to this post I ignored because I thought it was sex site SPAM!!!!!!!

Sorry.  Fine state of affairs when we *expect* to see sex spam, ain’t it? What you say may very well be true, but like I said in another post, it’s something that confirms my opinion that fish perceive our flies in a very different way from the way we do. That "big-ass curvy part" is very evident to me and seems even more prevalent in smaller flies. Maybe they ignore it because they tend to look for certain things that are "right" about a fly or for a certain trigger instead of things that are "wrong." Maybe those "educated" fish have learned to look for things that are "wrong" as well???

Well, my speculations were just musings.  To me, it remains a great mystery that fish will overlook something so conspicuous.  On the other hand, say a fish ignores a nymph presented once, twice, and takes it on the third cast.  It might well be that, just by chance, the fly was turned the third time in a way to present a top or bottom view (with the bare hook bend hidden), while the first two times, again by chance alone, the fly passed the fish turned in a way that presented the fly more in profile, with the bend more exposed. When fishing the traditional downstream swing for steelhead here in the PNW, one tactic is to throw upstream mends to slow down the swing, allowing the fish the longest possible view of the fly (a good tactic when swinging soft hackles for trout, too).  A disadvantage is that unless you use a riffle hitch or some such, the view the fish has tends to be a butt-on, reduced view.  It addition to the riffle hitch, a greased line presentation also serves to give the fish a full profile view of the fly.  The difference (from fishing for trout) is that you just want the steelhead to see the very most of whatever silhouette the fly happens to have, to maximize the sheer provocation value of the fly–you’re not trying to imitate any particular natural foodstuff.  Here the more bare hook you have visible, maybe the better.  Some manufacturers are now producing bright gold, green, red and blue salmon/steelhead hooks.  Why waste all that bare metal when you can dress it up? JR

Response:

I’ve often wondered about that "big-ass curvy part", but most of the time it doesn’t seem to bother the trout’s attraction to the lure.

Good thing, too, otherwise we’d all have to find another sport.  ;)  I guess that’s what amazes me:  that it *doesn’t* bother the fish while very minor differences in other parts of the fly will make a difference. JR

Response:

Maybe that big curvy part looks like an ovipositor.  See my web site www.sluttyflies.com

Response:

I believe that many streams (I know of three) where the fish are "opportunistic" — that is, if it looks like it could be food, they will strike it.  On the rivers I recently visited in Idaho, there was no hatch, yet they readily took a humpy or a Klinkhammer, the bigger the better.  The guide gave my grandson a #10 red humpy and I marveled at its effectiveness.   This is just the opposite of another river I fish – when there is no hatch, the fish will rise to a very small, well presented dry.  Nymphing the rivers in Idaho was very successful, but again you had to give them a big nymph.  My #18s and 20s were useless.  Those same 18s and 20s on another river will catch many fish.

"Bigger is better" is right. I seldom use dries smaller than #12 or nymphs smaller than #14 in those Idaho waters you fished. I think the deal is that they’re relatively sterile freestone rivers. The fish jump on whatever they see that looks edible. Large, good floating Chernobyl patterns with dropper nymphs are very effective. So are large orange stimulators. You can catch these fish with an indicator attached to a bare hook. I only use the standard nymph patterns — pheasant tails, hare’s ears, prince nymphs, and lately copper johns. Also, the fish are mostly cutthroats, which are notoriously gullible. It doesn’t make for particularly challenging fishing (aside from the ass-busting hiking to get to the good spots), but it’s fun. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

John replies:  I’d have thought, though, it was also more important with subsurface flies than with dries, first because the "profile" of the bend is reduced when viewed from below,

But,one can build the body into most of the bend, use hook shape to the advantage of simulation. it may be that the bare part of the hook is somewhat masked by the dimples and associated halos caused by the hackle and tail.

I disagree. If you watch how a fresh, well hackled dry fly floats, the hook penetrates the surface,except for a tightly palmered hackle. Most dries settle right on top of the surface with the body, with some hackle tips in the water and the ones on the sides doing the work of holding the fly up. Anyhow, the hook will be seen, and quite distinctly from the body silhouette.                              Tom L

Response:

John writes: just what do we imagine the fish make of that big long hook bend

I think, but have no proof for it, that hook recognition develops in fish over time and that this is a major part of what we anglers call "selective behavior". I feel this is mostly a factor with flies at/near the surface, and more an issue in slower, richer streams that offer more time for the fish to observe their prey. On many subsurface patterns, and even some surface emerger types, the hook bend can serve to mimic the shape of the natural nymph,pupa or whatever.                                Tom L

Response:

John writes: just what do we imagine the fish make of that big long hook bend I think, but have no proof for it, that hook recognition develops in fish over time and that this is a major part of what we anglers call "selective behavior". I feel this is mostly a factor with flies at/near the surface, and more an issue in slower, richer streams that offer more time for the fish to observe their prey. On many subsurface patterns, and even some surface emerger types, the hook bend can serve to mimic the shape of the natural nymph,pupa or whatever.

When I first read the header to this post I ignored because I thought it was sex site SPAM!!!!!!! What you say may very well be true, but like I said in another post, it’s something that confirms my opinion that fish perceive our flies in a very different way from the way we do. That "big-ass curvy part" is very evident to me and seems even more prevalent in smaller flies. Maybe they ignore it because they tend to look for certain things that are "right" about a fly or for a certain trigger instead of things that are "wrong." Maybe those "educated" fish have learned to look for things that are "wrong" as well??? Willi

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Willi writes: John writes: just what do we imagine the fish make of that big long hook bend I think, but have no proof for it, that hook recognition develops in fish over time and that this is a major part of what we anglers call "selective behavior". I feel this is mostly a factor with flies at/near the surface, and more an issue in slower, richer streams that offer more time for the fish to observe their prey. On many subsurface patterns, and even some surface emerger types, the hook bend can serve to mimic the shape of the natural nymph,pupa or whatever. When I first read the header to this post I ignored because I thought it was sex site SPAM!!!!!!! What you say may very well be true, but like I said in another post, it’s something that confirms my opinion that fish perceive our flies in a very different way from the way we do. That "big-ass curvy part" is very evident to me and seems even more prevalent in smaller flies. Maybe they ignore it because they tend to look for certain things that are "right" about a fly or for a certain trigger instead of things that are "wrong." Maybe those "educated" fish have learned to look for things that are "wrong" as well??? Willi

I believe that many streams (I know of three) where the fish are "opportunistic" — that is, if it looks like it could be food, they will strike it.  On the rivers I recently visited in Idaho, there was no hatch, yet they readily took a humpy or a Klinkhammer, the bigger the better.  The guide gave my grandson a #10 red humpy and I marveled at its effectiveness.   This is just the opposite of another river I fish – when there is no hatch, the fish will rise to a very small, well presented dry.  Nymphing the rivers in Idaho was very successful, but again you had to give them a big nymph.  My #18s and 20s were useless.  Those same 18s and 20s on another river will catch many fish. I’ve often wondered about that "big-ass curvy part", but most of the time it doesn’t seem to bother the trout’s attraction to the lure. Dave

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The recent discussion about wings, fishes’ perception, etc., reminded me of something I’ve often wondered, even marveled about–one of those things that come unbidden to mind on the thousandth (or two thousandth) fishless cast of the day on a steelhead river. Those of us who agonize over the minutiae of wing size, or number of fibers in the tail, or shade of copper in the ribbing:  just what do we imagine the fish make of that big long hook bend that on some patterns constitutes 50% or more of the whole gestalt (if you’ll pardon the word) presented to the fish?  Think of some ties you’ve seen of English PTs or soft hackles on those short hooks with absolutely huge gaps; yet these are effective flies.  You’d think (regardless of your species-specific sense of perception) that this big ol’ ugly THING just hanging there off the bottom of our handiwork is a lot more obvious than the many fine details we obsess over.  Why on earth would any trout swimming not key on THAT? I’d imagine the influence of the hook bend is least when the fly is viewed from directly above (in which case for most flies, it’s invisible); almost as little when viewed from directly below; slightly greater when viewed at an oblique angle above, behind, or to side; and greatest when viewed at right angles from the side.   If this is right, could it be one reason (in addition to the commonly cited ones) a straight downstream presentation of a dry is successful when casting to selective fish on calm waters?  Could there be implications for presentation of nymphs in slower water?  A reason why LaFontaine’s sparkle pupa (with the bend shrouded) is so effective?  A reason to use nothing but the lightest wire hooks available? (A reason for me to get a life and think about more useful things?) JR

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Question:

Is there every any type of fly fishing expo/shows in KY, Tennessee or West Virginia? I live in KY and want to start learning and trying fly fishing in the spring of 2000.  What would be the best way to start.  I already have a rod and reel with some flies, but dont know what to do with them or how. Please advise

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Suggest you buy a little book called "Curtis Creek Manifesto" as a start. Its in an adult comic type format. Don’t be put off by this. Its a serious and great intro to the sport. Ideal for the self teacher. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there every any type of fly fishing expo/shows in KY, Tennessee or West Virginia? I live in KY and want to start learning and trying fly fishing in the spring of 2000.  What would be the best way to start.  I already have a rod and reel with some flies, but dont know what to do with them or how. Please advise

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Library (books and videos)  Tackle shops (networking, local chapters of trout unlimited and other fly tying/fishing groups) reading this group and – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there every any type of fly fishing expo/shows in KY, Tennessee or West Virginia? I live in KY and want to start learning and trying fly fishing in the spring of 2000.  What would be the best way to start.  I already have a rod and reel with some flies, but dont know what to do with them or how. Please advise

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Question:

Hi my name is Sean and I’m looking for a fly tying instructor with 1/2 hours drive of Exeter, New Hampshire. I’ve been fly fishing for several years and just got my first kit and would like to take some tying lessons. Thanks for any help, Sean

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Hi my name is Sean and I’m looking for a fly tying instructor with 1/2 hours drive of Exeter, New Hampshire. I’ve been fly fishing for several years and just got my first kit and would like to take some tying lessons. Thanks for any help, Sean

I believe the shop in Kittery, the Kittery trading post offer lesson. If you can drive a little farther, American Angling in Salem NH and the Hunters in New Boston also offers classes. Wayne

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Question:

Beaver

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Ralph H wrote …… But it bothered me I never saw that unexpected big fish that broke me off. What the hell was that anyway?

Alligator…your lucky you didn’t catch it —                                                       -dnc-

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A great day’s fishing. But it bothered me I never saw that unexpected big fish that broke me off. What the hell was that anyway? Ralph H

Sturgeon Mark Faulkner

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Dolly varden

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was out for my first trip of ‘99 Friday. We had a severe rainstorm earlier in the week with rain falls exceeding 2mm per hour for maybe 10 hours. By friday the Chehalis river was still high but clear and fishable. I spent an hour or so drifting the soft water on the east shore of the Forest Service camp. One fellow landed a small doe steelhead of 5 lbs. There didn’t seem much else that was fishable and with 6 or more cars at the hatchery I decided to try one of my favourite Fraser River backwaters for some winter cutthroat. If it didn’t work out I could always come back perhaps with the water a foot or so lower. The river was high here as well. Most of the bank was under water but I could wade it easy enough. I climbed down the bank and tested the creek mouth. Moving downstream I drifted the glo-bug through the riffled tailout where the creek broke into the big river. Looked too fast and streamy for a cutt to hold here but it was worth a shot. I cast and looked down to pick my way along the stream bed and felt a heaviness set in along the rod. Raising my arm I felt a solid weight and a reluctant shake then a surge. The little reel screamed as a determined fish stuck out for the main channel. The little trout reel doesn’t hold a lot of backing so I tightened the drag a bit and seconds later the run stopped and the line went slack. I reeled in and the fly and the shot were gone. That the shot was gone suggested it had hung on the shallow bar on the other side of the creek mouth and snapped the 3x tippet. It could have been a big cutt and I’ve heard of fish to 7 or 8 lbs but cutts seldom run like that. Steelhead? Did a few ascend the creek? Was it a stray fish from one of the big rivers or a fish bound for a tributary higher up the Fraser. For the next few hours I fished the bar and the rip rap banks below the creek hooking a mixed bag of whitefish and cutts to maybe 2lbs. A good number were wild fish. A higher proportion than I’ve seen here since hatchery plants started maybe 15 years ago. The weather was perfect. A great day’s fishing. But it bothered me I never saw that unexpected big fish that broke me off. What the hell was that anyway? Ralph H

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I was out for my first trip of ‘99 Friday. We had a severe rainstorm earlier in the week with rain falls exceeding 2mm per hour for maybe 10 hours. By friday the Chehalis river was still high but clear and fishable. I spent an hour or so drifting the soft water on the east shore of the Forest Service camp. One fellow landed a small doe steelhead of 5 lbs. There didn’t seem much else that was fishable and with 6 or more cars at the hatchery I decided to try one of my favourite Fraser River backwaters for some winter cutthroat. If it didn’t work out I could always come back perhaps with the water a foot or so lower. The river was high here as well. Most of the bank was under water but I could wade it easy enough. I climbed down the bank and tested the creek mouth. Moving downstream I drifted the glo-bug through the riffled tailout where the creek broke into the big river. Looked too fast and streamy for a cutt to hold here but it was worth a shot. I cast and looked down to pick my way along the stream bed and felt a heaviness set in along the rod. Raising my arm I felt a solid weight and a reluctant shake then a surge. The little reel screamed as a determined fish stuck out for the main channel. The little trout reel doesn’t hold a lot of backing so I tightened the drag a bit and seconds later the run stopped and the line went slack. I reeled in and the fly and the shot were gone. That the shot was gone suggested it had hung on the shallow bar on the other side of the creek mouth and snapped the 3x tippet. It could have been a big cutt and I’ve heard of fish to 7 or 8 lbs but cutts seldom run like that. Steelhead? Did a few ascend the creek? Was it a stray fish from one of the big rivers or a fish bound for a tributary higher up the Fraser. For the next few hours I fished the bar and the rip rap banks below the creek hooking a mixed bag of whitefish and cutts to maybe 2lbs. A good number were wild fish. A higher proportion than I’ve seen here since hatchery plants started maybe 15 years ago. The weather was perfect. A great day’s fishing. But it bothered me I never saw that unexpected big fish that broke me off. What the hell was that anyway? Ralph H

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Question:

There is a new product out on the market which allows spinning and spincast anglers to attach a length of fly line to mono and fly fish…has any one tried this product or done this themselves?  Any advice on how to fish doing this? — Pierre                     There can be only one!!!!                             |    

There goes the neighbourhood!   <g Peter

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There goes the neighbourhood!   <g Peter

Uh huh.  I just hope it’s not legal to use food stamps to buy them. Bob

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Have you ever considered the possibility of using a fly rod to cast flys?

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uneloquently put it: Uh huh.  I just hope it’s not legal to use food stamps to buy them. Bob Sorry buddy, I don’t usually flame people but that was a total dick response, even if you were just kidding.  Get a life. Kristina Go UT Lady Vols!!!

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uneloquently put it: Uh huh.  I just hope it’s not legal to use food stamps to buy them. Bob Sorry buddy, I don’t usually flame people but that was a total dick response, even if you were just kidding.  Get a life. Kristina

So what do you mean… that I offended you, and that’s wrong, so you wrote an offensive message to me, and that’s right?  What interesting "standards" you have. Bob Scott

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So what do you mean… that I offended you, and that’s wrong, so you wrote an offensive message to me, and that’s right?  What interesting "standards" you have. Bob Scott

Yes he’s right. Balance has now been restored you dick.

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There is a new product out on the market which allows spinning and spincast anglers to attach a length of fly line to mono and fly fish…has any one tried this product or done this themselves?  Any advice on how to fish doing this? — Pierre                          There can be only one!!!!                              |    

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Question:

Thumbing through a Japanese fly-fishing magazine recently, I noticed ads for waist-high waders- about 5 or 6 brands. The only one I’ve seen in the States is in the L.L. Bean catalog- and at a chest-high price. Anyone know of another source for non-neoprene waist waders? Thanks!

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Check Cabelas out. They have a couple different waist-high waders. I do believe they are cheaper than the chest waders. www.cabelas.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thumbing through a Japanese fly-fishing magazine recently, I noticed ads for waist-high waders- about 5 or 6 brands. The only one I’ve seen in the States is in the L.L. Bean catalog- and at a chest-high price. Anyone know of another source for non-neoprene waist waders? Thanks!

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Cabela’s has waist high waders neoprene for about 60 bucks was just looking at the online catalogue hope this helps will order a pair for myself in the next while Pierre – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thumbing through a Japanese fly-fishing magazine recently, I noticed ads for waist-high waders- about 5 or 6 brands. The only one I’ve seen in the States is in the L.L. Bean catalog- and at a chest-high price. Anyone know of another source for non-neoprene waist waders? Thanks!

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I have a pair of Streamline waist-high stockingfoot waders that I bought about 6 years ago at a fly shop. They’ve been pretty good. The thing I liked (and still do) about the Streamlines is a collar inside them you can pull up around your chest when the water gets deeper than waist-deep (or when you’re tubing). I had misgivings at first about whether it would stay up, but hasn’t been a problem. They’re much cooler in summer and a lot easier to get down for those inevitable "pit stops" on the bank. I’d say go for it! Lance Hankins

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thumbing through a Japanese fly-fishing magazine recently, I noticed ads for waist-high waders- about 5 or 6 brands. The only one I’ve seen in the States is in the L.L. Bean catalog- and at a chest-high price. Anyone know of another source for non-neoprene waist waders? Thanks!

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Try "Hook and Hackle" in Plattsburgh, NY, near the Canadian border. They have a web site under this name. I bought some very good stuff from them at a very reasonable price. Peter Diemand Montreal, Que. Canada – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thumbing through a Japanese fly-fishing magazine recently, I noticed ads for waist-high waders- about 5 or 6 brands. The only one I’ve seen in the States is in the L.L. Bean catalog- and at a chest-high price. Anyone know of another source for non-neoprene waist waders? Thanks!

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Question:

Little Grizzly Creek Ranch is accepting reservations for summer flyfishing at the head waters of the North Platte, near Walden, Colorado.  New accommodations, gourmet meals, guides, instruction, hosted bar and over ten miles of virgin streams never before fished by the public.  Five varieties of trout to 24".  For a free brochure, e-mail your regular address to:

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Please send a free brochure to; Chuck Rementer 20198 East Aintree Ct Parker, CO 80134 fish

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Question:

Anyone have any comments on the use of sinking and sinktip lines as i do quite a bit of lake fishing and I still prefer to stick with the flyrod. cheers — gp

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I have fished lakes extensively, and used all types of sinking and sink tip lines.  It’s kind of a trade off between water depth, line density and sink tip length and leader length.  I have found full sinking (intermediate, med. density and fast sinking shooting heads) to be more effective than sink tips, but it’s probably personal preference.  The teeny nymph T series lines are good too (a T200 works well with 5, 6 weights). I haven’t used uniform sink lines, but they seem like a good idea.   Sinking lines are difficult to pick up out of the water, but once you do you can cast them a mile.  Remember, use a short leader, so as not to defeat the purpose of a sinking line.  Hang on, there are some big fish in some of the lakes I fish.

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Anyone have any comments on the use of sinking and sinktip lines as i do quite a bit of lake fishing and I still prefer to stick with the flyrod. cheers — gp

With in the past 5 years I have gone to a Uniform Sink tip line as you can maintain the fly in the fishing zone longer.  With a sink tip you strip or troll though the zone but don’t remain in the zone.  This is the same with fullsinking line.  I have been using this line find it to much more effective for lake fishing.  Check it out.  Joe

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: Anyone have any comments on the use of sinking and sinktip lines as i do : quite a bit of lake fishing and I still prefer to stick with the flyrod. : cheers I have made up a number of short lead core lines with a loop at each end. To fish deep, I simply attach one of these lead leaders to any line. The can also be used as a shooting head with a small diameter shooting line or just a small level line. Works well, and it’s cheap. –mike

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: Anyone have any comments on the use of sinking and sinktip lines as i do : quite a bit of lake fishing and I still prefer to stick with the flyrod. : cheers I have made up a number of short lead core lines with a loop at each end. To fish deep, I simply attach one of these lead leaders to any line. The can also be used as a shooting head with a small diameter shooting line or just a small level line. Works well, and it’s cheap. –mike

Mike I have good luck with cutting Cortland 333 Level Sinking line into 2′ 4′ and 6′ segments and putting loops on both ends. Tom

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: Anyone have any comments on the use of sinking and sinktip lines as i do : quite a bit of lake fishing and I still prefer to stick with the flyrod. : cheers Gordon, I have used a sinking line for several years, and find it to be a nuisance to cast with; probably I should use a sink-tip instead. The major problem is that your rod has to have enough oomph to quickly get the line airborne – very easy when it’s floating on the surface, and hell when it’s submerged. Casting a sinker will cause you to work on your casting style I also tried using a length of lead-core trolling line to do some flyfishing for walleye – caught a fish (eventually) but that stuff is hazardous to cast. Conventional sinking lines will work okay to about 15 feet. Go to Hi-D (or leadcore) to go deeper. Best fly-caught laker was about 10#, from Great Slave Lake, on a sinker. — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

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