Question:

I use a Madriver Tahoe(14Ft). Weighs 52 pounds-easy enough to handle by myself. This is a recreational canoe-wide,and with good primary stability- really good for trips with small children and dogs.

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can somebody recomend a good canoe 12′-15′ long and really light under $600 primarily used for fishing thanks chris

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can somebody recomend a good canoe 12′-15′ long and really light under $600 primarily used for fishing thanks chris

Chris,  You want some initial stability…to give you that casting platform. I’d go with a light kevlar or some kind of composite in a wide hull. I love dynamically designed hulls, but I just haven’t paddled anything       lightweight in a medium to narrow width with the secondary stability that’s necessary to avoid hair-raising adventures with any sudden movements or just wind.  Kevlar, or anything else that would be light is just not cheap_$$$, I’d go the USED route.  Be energetic in your search…and you should find something via the web. $.02, Steve

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can somebody recomend a good canoe 12′-15′ long and really light under $600 primarily used for fishing thanks chris

I use an Old Town Pack, 12 foot long, 33 pounds, on lakes and slow rivers.  New they are near $600, but I got mine used for <$300, including a lovely bent shaft paddle.  I have not had a problem with primary or secondary stability for fishing (YMMV).  I use it for both casting and trolling, while my husband has used it for flyfishing (but not as successfully).  I have found that me, 6 Ft or shorter rods work best in small canoes or kayaks.  Get a nice anchor and a brush anchor too.  Enjoy. Pam in Iowa

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Question:

Would anyone like to give a history of Roff. When it started,who are the longest posters Etc.

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I and several others helped kick off alt.fishing in the late 1980’s, and the Associated Press and several well known magazines interviewed us and ran articles on the new forum for fishers. Until the early 1990’s, I posted stats on who the top posters were per year.  Readership was about 20,000-40,000 in the early years Several years later, Brian Dixon (then in Colorado, ironically now working for HP a few buildings away from me) successfully led an effort to get the rec.outdoors.fishing.* hierarchy started. Certainly many of us older posters don’t post as much due to other activities. I remain very impressed with the quality and value of the fishing forums, and thank many of you for keeping things going. Thomas Gilg – President, Mid-Willamette Fly Fishers, Corvallis Oregon – VP Conservation, Oregon Council of the Federation of Fly Fishers – Oregon [Fish] Restoration and Enhancement Board, Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife    (i.e. I and 6 others get to decide how to spend the several-dollar surcharge on every    angling license sold in Oregon to improve fisheries and fishing opportunities) – lots of other fishing conservation and education stuff

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Would anyone like to give a history of Roff. When it started,who are the longest posters Etc.

I’m not sure who started ROFF or how long ago it was, but I’ll bet HWMNBN was the one who introduced him to USENET as they developed new fly patterns in a foxhole in the Korean War. –Steve (hey, someone’s gotta namedrop, even during a Clave)

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, I posted stats on who the top posters were per year.  Readership was about 20,000-40,000 in the early years    thomas, is there any way that you or some other tekkie could roughly determine the number of posters/lurkers on roff at the present? wayno

There’s no way to count pure lurkers, without having server logs for every access point on the net – world wide. Most of us are already booked for other more worthy endeavors, but I invite my good friend from The Old North State to have at it with his usual gusto ;^) Otherwise, you could scoop a contributing authors list through one of the news archivers for as far back as they go. I figure that roughly 500 authors have contributed (positively or otherwise) since Opening Day. /daytripper (who’s heading for the Cape of Cod for the week. Buh Bye! ;^)

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thomas, is there any way that you or some other tekkie could roughly determine the number of posters/lurkers on roff at the present?

Well, number of posters would be fairly easy. However, if there’s someone out there who can tell how many lurkers there are, please let me know. I have a few questions to ask about my future. –Steve

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Tom;   From a self professed computer geek and fly fishing fanatic, thank you.          Frank Reid Before you buy.

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, I posted stats on who the top posters were per year.  Readership was about 20,000-40,000 in the early years

        thomas, is there any way that you or some other tekkie could roughly determine the number of posters/lurkers on roff at the present? wayno

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Amen! Well done Tom. This ng and ROFFT are the major reasons I enjoy my online time. — Jamie http://clik.to/flyfish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tom;   From a self professed computer geek and fly fishing fanatic, thank you.          Frank Reid Before you buy.

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Wayne Harrison: … is there any way that you or some other tekkie could roughly determine the number of posters/lurkers on roff at the present?

Someone somehow used to post USENET readership statistics in one of the news.* newsgroups.  I think they derived actual readership numbers from some NNTP servers, and then did some reasonable math to come up with total readership.  They would also list top posters for the top lists. Someone with time on their hands might cruise the news.* groups to see if they still post such results. Thomas Gilg

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Someone with time on their hands might cruise the news.* groups to see if they still post such results.

I found: http://metalab.unc.edu/usenetb-bin/to-group.pl?rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Not that I have time on my hands you understand<g. — Charlie…

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Remarq.com, which I use as a free newsreader (hence the stupid phone ad at the bottom of my posts) lists ROFF as having 1958 Threads and 2241 posters. Don’t know how far back that goes nor how many of those posters are various "G" alias’ Cheers, Allen Epps Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

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Wayne Harrison: … is there any way that you or some other tekkie could roughly determine the number of posters/lurkers on roff at the present? Someone somehow used to post USENET readership statistics in one of the news.* newsgroups.  I think they derived actual readership numbers from some NNTP servers, and then did some reasonable math to come up with total readership.  They would also list top posters for the top lists.

You could make REALLY crude guesstimates, but it would be nearly impossible to get real numbers short of asking every ISP newsprovider to track each of their users and report back. They probably did something like, there are x news providers, with y average users a piece, z% of their users read usenet and then look at the posting amounts of each newsgroup to get some idea of the popularity of various group’s readers. It’s probably a good estimate +-40-50%.      - Ken —     "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly,       and I did.  I said I didn’t know."     — Mark Twain

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Someone with time on their hands might cruise the news.* groups to see if they still post such results. I found: http://metalab.unc.edu/usenetb-bin/to-group.pl?rec.outdoors.fishing.fly

Thanks.  On that site I found their explanation on how the readership is estimated… "Readers      Estimated total number of people who read this group, worldwide      There are two sources of error in this number. The number is      computed by multiplying the number of people in the sample who      actually read the group by the ratio of estimated network size to      sample size. The estimated total can therefore be biased by errors in      the network size estimate (see above) and also by errors in the      determination of whether or not someone reads a group. Assuming that      "reading a group" is roughly the same as "thumbing through a      magazine", in that you don’t necessarily have to read anything, but      you have to browse through it and see what is there, then the      measurement error will come primarily from inability to locate .newsrc      files, which can either be protected or moved out of root directories.      There is no way of measuring the effect on the measurements from      unlocated .newsrc files, but it is not likely to be more than a few      percent of the total news readers. "      - Ken —     "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly,       and I did.  I said I didn’t know."     — Mark Twain

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Someone with time on their hands might cruise the news.* groups to see if they still post such results. I found: http://metalab.unc.edu/usenetb-bin/to-group.pl?rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Not that I have time on my hands you understand<g. — Charlie…

    chocolat, you da king uh da world!  and the source is located in a unc.edu file–unfreaking impeachable! wayno

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Question:

<SNIP Another question: Are Midges ever fished Below the surface film? When?

midges or more properly chironomids are best fished with pupae imitations in still water. As the pupae rises slowly through several feet of water before hatching at the surface trout frequently feed on these well below the surface – often just a few feet of the bottom. Long leaders and bead head imitations are popular in many still water locations.

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I regularly fish some nearby ponds.  The most consistent bugs are midges and small mayflies, the trout grow large.  The best fishing often occurs in low light conditions, very early morning or twilight.  Since my eyes aren’t the best, I’ve had to improvise.  I tie a series of dry and damp flies on 18" to 30" pieces of tippet.  If I break one off or need to change flies I just run my hand down the leader until I find the knot and snap off the tippet. Then it’s relatively easy to attach a new tippet with a surgeon’s knot.  I fish from a john boat and arrange the new tippets in the bow of the boat with the hooks in some foam and the lines loosely coiled.  The change only takes a few seconds.  I’ve used the same system on the river with mixed results. Joe   —

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<SNIP Another question: Are Midges ever fished Below the surface film? When?

Hi Bob, years ago all flies were tied to gut or horsehair, and the lengths were attached to the leader as required.  I would advise longer lengths than six inches if you do this, eighteen inches or so probably being better. Longer pieces get progressively more unmanageable. You will need to use "cast carriers" as well to keep your stuff from tangling, these can be as simple as pieces of card with slits cut in them to wrap the tippet and fly around. Loops as you suggest at six inches or less, that near your fly would just cause a mess, and ruin your presentation, as knots probably would too. I have seen an elderly gentleman using old plastic line spools with a piece of foam stuck to both sides  for this as well, he had a couple of about twenty four inch lengths wrapped round the spool, and the fly stuck in the foam.  Seemed to work OK. He was knotting the tippet directly to the end of his leader. If I was obliged to do this I would consider using the tiny silver rings available for this purpose, and attaching these to the end of the leader, then just attach the tippet with an improved clinch. These are very small, but a great deal easier to thread than a small fly eye. Midges can be fished very successfully just below the film, most especially pupa imitations. This is particularly effective during a rise of course. Adult midges may also be fished sub-surface. In cases where the trout are feeding on indeterminate minutiae a cream midge size 22 has worked quite well for me, although I very rarely fish flies this small usually. This may be fished at any depth, though not too deep seems to work best. Nymphing with a black or brown midge pupa is often very successful indeed. TL MC

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I regularly fish some nearby ponds.  The most consistent bugs are midges and small mayflies, the trout grow large.  The best fishing often occurs in low light conditions, very early morning or twilight.  Since my eyes aren’t the best, I’ve had to improvise.  I tie a series of dry and damp flies on 18" to 30" pieces of tippet.  If I break one off or need to change flies I just run my hand down the leader until I find the knot and snap off the tippet. Then it’s relatively easy to attach a new tippet with a surgeon’s knot.  I fish from a john boat and arrange the new tippets in the bow of the boat with the hooks in some foam and the lines loosely coiled.  The change only takes a few seconds.  I’ve used the same system on the river with mixed results. Joe –I have the same problem.  I haven’t tried it yet, but am going to pretie tippets to fly, but longer tippets.  I would store theam coiled up in small zip-lock bags,( suach as tying materials come in) with a piece of paper or cardboard inside with specs of conteants.  Jusst make sure you have a leader straightener with you.  Also Ernie Harrisons knot machine works great and faastens to vest.

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Hi All, I have had the same problem.  I came up with 3 solutions. 1.  I purchased magnifier glasses called Flip Focus which attach to my sunglasses and can be purchased in varying powers.  Try Bob Marriotts in Southern California. 2.  I tie my tiny flies on Orvis large eye hooks. 3.  I use an Orvis threader box which contains a bunch of different sized threaders.  As stated by V. Ursenbach, these threaders will not work on very small flies.  However, with the Orvis large eye hooks I have had no problems.  So far, that is. Pete

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: I would appreciate any opinions on the following: Looking at some REALLY small midge flies I recently received, and appreciating my eyesight degrading a bit each year, I am thinking about pre-tying a length of, perhaps, 6 inches of #7 tippet to each fly now, in the comfort of my warm kitchen. Trying to do it on the stream seems like it would be an exercise in near futility for me. I have enough troubles threading a size 12 or 14 fly these days. I guess I would also tie a loop in the other end, and use a loop to loop connection to the #6 or #7 regular leader tippet I have on the end of my line. -Does this sound reasonable? -Loop to loop only 6" from the fly-present any new, unique, problems? Another question: Are Midges ever fished Below the surface film? When? Thanks, Bob

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You can fish midges any way you want, surface, in the film or below the film.  They work anytime a hatch is going on or not.  Midges are versitile meaning they are everywhere all the time.  Fish them below the surface with a sinktip, no need to even strip, just let it sit. The results can be surprising.  The loop connection may work, I don’t see why not.  Make them in different lengths so you can see if there is a difference. Good Luck, Forrest — Forrest http://www.FlyFishingREVIEW.com FlyFishingREVIEW.com Before you buy.

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A cheaper solution than even this is a needle threader, available at the sewing notions section of you local store. . . .

One problem with this option: the needle threader will not go through the eye of a small midge. Sometimes I use #18 & #20 hooks and find the eye only large enough to push a single strand of line through.  I should say that I use 7X leader.  If I try to fold the line and push it through to make a polymer knot or such like knot the hook eye is to small.  Pushing a needle threader, which has a rounded end and double thickness of wire, is therefore impossible.  Especially when you try to put the leader in the loop and pull the threader back through with the doubled line.  When you pull it through there is now 2 thickness of line and 2 thickness or wire.  If the eye is to small to put 2 thickness of line through, how can 2 thickness of line and 2 thickness of wire go through?  It’s a nice idea, but it just will not work. Vern

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I have been interested in this thread, too. I often use small flies (#18-22) and light tippets (7X). The light tippet lacks the rigidity to "poke around ’til ya hit the hole." And my eyesight… no it’s the tippet material. That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it… Anyway, I did some testing yesterday (Sunday 11/14). I bought needle threaders at a fabric/sewing store: 3 for 99 cents. I tried the threader on a #20 midge. It didn’t work at first. I then smashed the wire to a sharp point. It didn’t work,  either. I then used the "eye cleaner" on my clipper to completely clear the eye. The flattened wire went through it fine. I pulled through 5X tippet material.  Some one mentioned it may bruise to tippet material, so I used as little on the tag end as I could. I clipped the suspect part of the tippet and tied my too-many-turn clinch knot. I have attached the needle threader to my vest. Brad in Houston

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A cheaper solution than even this is a needle threader, available at the sewing notions section of you local store. . . . One problem with this option: the needle threader will not go through the eye of a small midge. Sometimes I use #18 & #20 hooks and find the eye only large enough to push a single strand of line through.  I should say that I use 7X leader.  If I try to fold the line and push it through to make a polymer knot or such like knot the hook eye is to small.  Pushing a needle threader, which has a rounded end and double thickness of wire, is therefore impossible.  Especially when you try to put the leader in the loop and pull the threader back through with the doubled line.  When you pull it through there is now 2 thickness of line and 2 thickness or wire.  If the eye is to small to put 2 thickness of line through, how can 2 thickness of line and 2 thickness of wire go through?  It’s a nice idea, but it just will not work. Vern

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Bob- something I’ve been doig for about four years now for late evening fishing with midges and other small flies, too! I use about a 10-12" piece of tippet material and leave the end plain than use a surgeon’s knot to tie it into my leader….. great for the early mornings when the arthritic fingers haven’t started working yet either! I use clear film cans to store the flies with a small piece of funfoam on the hook points so they don’t tangle…. cut slits down the sides of the film can from the top rim and then slide the tippet through the slit so you can store them individually…. I get 6 or 8 in a can. Personally, I don’t care for loop to loop, especially when I’m fishing something that small and on that light of a leader…it adds two more knots into the equation and increases the chance of failure even more in my mind. As for below the film? Yeah, when they get slimed or forced under by a ripple… I mean short of ca cripple midge, I prefer to fish em on the surface and like using either CDC  as a "loop post" or white Arctic Fox mask as a post to increase visibility. Larry #:)#

Response:

Hi Bob, I’ve seen  a fly box that has sprung steel threaders on which you store the flies.  When you need to tie one on you place the tippet thorugh the threader remove the fly already threaded.  This will certainly help with 12’s, 14 and 16 but I’m not sure whether smaller flies will fit. Perhaps its worth a look. Steve

Response:

Steve: <<Hi Bob, I’ve seen  a fly box that has sprung steel threaders on which you store the flies.  When you need to tie one on you place the tippet thorugh the threader remove the fly already threaded.  This will certainly help with 12’s, 14 and 16 but I’m not sure whether smaller flies will fit. Perhaps its worth a look. Orvis sells two.  For $39 and $28!  Yikes!  Go to an Orvis store and see if it will take 18-22.  Probably will.  I have the same problem, Bob, but I have solved it by using fold-down magnifiers.  You can get them in different magnification powers.  Cheaper than the Orvis trick box. Dave L.

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0] : Steve: : <<Hi Bob, : I’ve seen  a fly box that has sprung steel threaders on which you store : the flies.  When you need to tie one on you place the tippet thorugh the : threader remove the fly already threaded.  This will certainly help : with 12’s, 14 and 16 but I’m not sure whether smaller flies will fit. : Perhaps its worth a look. : Orvis sells two.  For $39 and $28!  Yikes!  Go to an Orvis store and : see if it will take 18-22.  Probably will.  I have the same problem, : Bob, but I have solved it by using fold-down magnifiers.  You can : get them in different magnification powers.  Cheaper than the : Orvis trick box. : Dave L. A cheaper solution than even this is a needle threader, available at the sewing notions section of you local store, three to a package, about $1. It’s a loop of fine music wire staked to a dime sized piece of thin aluminum. You’ll need to pinch the tip of the threader down a bit with pliers or forceps to fit hook eyes–its oblong for needle eyes as it comes. You poke it through the hook eye, put the tippet through the loop and pull it back through. It bruises the tippet a little bit where the wire pulls on it, so discard that little tag end. I find I can pull 5x through #22 eyes, no problem. They last anywhere from 0 to 100 threadings, so carry spares, they’re cheap. I have mine, attached with a bit of mono through a hole punched in the aluminum, on the same zinger as my tippet nipper. A bit of super glue where the wire is attached to the aluminum does help the durability. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

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When fishing light tippets, a longer tippet gives you more protection from break offs because of its ability to stretch. I’ve been tempted to pretie tippets but I couldn’t come up with a good way to store them and keep them from tangling in my vest. Instead, I keep a cheap pair of reading glasses in my vest (even though I don’t REALLY need them for reading). I buy at the Dollar store and usually get 2X strength. They help alot. Midges can be fished anywhere in the water column from the film on down. Deep nymphing with midges is very popular on tailwaters.  I was out on my home river (not a tailwater) this AM. The only thing coming off were a few midges. Nothing was rising or sipping but I caught several fish on a 22 midge drifted along the bottom of the runs at the heads of several pools. I came across a huge, dead, hook jawed Brown of about 26". Too old to handle the rigors of spawning, I guess. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: I would appreciate any opinions on the following: Looking at some REALLY small midge flies I recently received, and appreciating my eyesight degrading a bit each year, I am thinking about pre-tying a length of, perhaps, 6 inches of #7 tippet to each fly now, in the comfort of my warm kitchen. Trying to do it on the stream seems like it would be an exercise in near futility for me. I have enough troubles threading a size 12 or 14 fly these days. I guess I would also tie a loop in the other end, and use a loop to loop connection to the #6 or #7 regular leader tippet I have on the end of my line. -Does this sound reasonable? -Loop to loop only 6" from the fly-present any new, unique, problems? Another question: Are Midges ever fished Below the surface film? When? Thanks, Bob

Response:

…Looking at some REALLY small midge flies I recently received, and appreciating my eyesight degrading a bit each year, I am thinking about pre-tying a length of, perhaps, 6 inches of #7 tippet to each fly now, in the comfort of my warm kitchen.

There are a couple of problems with this idea.  First, six inches of tippet is much to short for just about any circumstances.  This puts your knot in a very visible location in addition  to doing horrible things to the mechanics of casting.  Second, appropriate tippet length is highly variable and depends on the situation at hand.  For example, in very slow clear water one would ordinarily use a greater length of tippet in order to keep the fly as far as possible from the fly line, and to allow a more natural looking drift.  Since a very long tippet can make casting more difficult (just as a very short one can) one can’t simply always use the long one either.  Third, appropriate tippet diameter is also variable and for the same reasons as above.  Fourth, tippet material is hard enough to keep under control when it is on a spool.  Having a bunch of flies in your vest with lengths of tippet attached would cause a nightmare of snarling and unintended knots. All in all, I think it is much better to acquire and use whatever corrective eye wear you can find. Good luck.

Response:

Hello: I would appreciate any opinions on the following: Looking at some REALLY small midge flies I recently received, and appreciating my eyesight degrading a bit each year, I am thinking about pre-tying a length of, perhaps, 6 inches of #7 tippet to each fly now, in the comfort of my warm kitchen. Trying to do it on the stream seems like it would be an exercise in near futility for me. I have enough troubles threading a size 12 or 14 fly these days. I guess I would also tie a loop in the other end, and use a loop to loop connection to the #6 or #7 regular leader tippet I have on the end of my line. -Does this sound reasonable? -Loop to loop only 6" from the fly-present any new, unique, problems? Another question: Are Midges ever fished Below the surface film? When? Thanks, Bob

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Question:

Hi you guys.  I just read a national weather prognostication that says we may be in the beginning of a possible long lasting drought that could last for years and that we may see a lot of streams drying up in the future.  It could be worse than the dust bowl days.  Maybe we should start teaching the fish to breath air for their oxygen? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim: Welcome aboard ROFF.  I’m from State College, and you’re in a great area to fish.  I don’t get Mark Faulkner(Snipped) I am (Snipped)

Response:

Jim: Welcome aboard ROFF.  I’m from State College, and you’re in a great area to fish.  I don’t get to the Little J all that much, since Spring Creek is in by back yard, but I’ll email you separately with some additional information. The question now is whether all these streams will dry up.  The upper end of Spring Creek (going through Boalsburg) is dry, as is a major trib of Spring Creek (Slab Cabin Run); some major fish kills have occurred.  Haven’t seen the Little J recently.  Pray for rain, and lots of it. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am recently retired (62 yrs. old).  Tried fly fishing a few times when younger, but wasnt any good.  I spent this summer learning to cast in back yard and on Spring Creek near State College, Pa.  I just moved to Altoona, and I am looking for a friend to fish Little Juniata River near Tyrone andother streams nearby.  I did get to the point where I could cast decently (IMHO), and caught a few fish.  I am also trying to resurrect my fly tying ability.  Got a new regal vice and lots of stuff, but not much money.  Any one interested in hanging out with me and fishing please let me know.  My this news group, they can call me at (814)949-2685.  I am intelligent and am also interested in ham radio. Thanks and I hope to hear from someone.  PS  This is my first post to a newsgroup ever.     Jim Marlin

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Jim Marlin schrieb in Nachricht Welcome back to the fold Jim !  Hope you find a good fishing partner.  Hope you enjoy ROFF as well. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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I am recently retired (62 yrs. old).  Tried fly fishing a few times when younger, but wasnt any good.  I spent this summer learning to cast in back yard and on Spring Creek near State College, Pa.  I just moved to Altoona, and I am looking for a friend to fish Little Juniata River near Tyrone andother streams nearby.  I did get to the point where I could cast decently (IMHO), and caught a few fish.  I am also trying to resurrect my fly tying ability.  Got a new regal vice and lots of stuff, but not much money.  Any one interested in hanging out with me and fishing please let me know.  My this news group, they can call me at (814)949-2685.  I am intelligent and am also interested in ham radio. Thanks and I hope to hear from someone.  PS  This is my first post to a newsgroup ever.     Jim Marlin

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Question:

This past summer, my wife (god bless her) brought home a mint-condition model 1498 Pfleuger Medalist from one of her garage-sale sorties. It is loaded with backing and line in what appears to be unfished condition. Question: Is there any way I can figure out the weight of the line? There are no markings on it. Why don’t line manufacturers mark flyline anyways? It would seem to be a simple manufacturing step. Thanks Joe

Hi Joe, A 1498 was the biggest Medalist and was for rods from #9 and larger. It might have a shooting head on it? If you pull it off for about 20 feet you will notice that it is either a level line or has a front taper for the first 6 to 12 feet. This means that it is a tapered line and if it is a light color, then it is probably a floating line. At about 30 plus feet, but before 40′, it gets smaller again, then it is a weight forward. If it stays large for more that 40 feet it is probably a double taper. If you go  back to about 20 feet from the front and measure the diameter with a micrometer, you can get a pretty good idea what size it is. If I remember right, about ~0.048" is a 5 weight floater?  Email me some more info or put it on the group and we can determine what it is. PS: If that is an old Pflueger that was made in the USA and is in good condition, it would be great for some heavier fishing. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Sorry to hammer the point one more time…… It’s NOT the LAST 30′ (unless of course its a double taper, in that case you can weigh either end) It’s the FIRST 30′ ( the end you tie your leader to,……. but don’t weigh the leader!) David

Response:

David, First and last is not a good description because either end can be first or last depending on whether you are talking about going on or coming off the real.  The end you tie your leader to is a meaningful description. — Ernie Harrison Fly Fishing Books, Blood Knot Machine Wading Boots, Making Rods, Fly Tying Box Go to:  http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry to hammer the point one more time…… It’s NOT the LAST 30′ (unless of course its a double taper, in that case you can weigh either end) It’s the FIRST 30′ ( the end you tie your leader to,……. but don’t weigh the leader!) David

Response:

Joe, all the handling characteristics of a fly line are determined by the line’s plastic coating. Based on what we’ve seen with Cortland’s LazerLine, I’d have to guess that good ‘printability’ and good handling are not common in the same line. I’d expect the 1498 to be spooled with 7wt or higher. Try casting it on an 8wt rod and see how it feels at 30 feet.

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Thanks for correcting my error Don and Dave all the rest of the sharp eyed readers, that’s what happens when you buy a cheap keyboard. — Ernie Harrison Fly Fishing Books, Blood Knot Machine Wading Boots, Making Rods, Fly Tying Box Go to:  http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Question: Is there any way I can figure out the weight of the line? There are no markings on it. Why don’t line manufacturers mark flyline anyways? It would seem to be a simple manufacturing step. Thirty years of experience suggests either it is not simple or there is insufficient market demand. Weigh the last 30" of the line. That should be the last 30′ (not ") excluding taper. Most people find it easier to try the line on a rod of known type and see how it feels. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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 Weigh the last 30" of the line. — Ernie Harrison Fly Fishing Books, Blood Knot Machine Wading Boots, Making Rods, Fly Tying Box Go to:  http://users.ccnet.com/~emh

I think Ernie means " the FIRST 30 FEET" David

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This past summer, my wife (god bless her) brought home a mint-condition model 1498 Pfleuger Medalist from one of her garage-sale sorties. It is loaded with backing and line in what appears to be unfished condition. Question: Is there any way I can figure out the weight of the line? There are no markings on it. Why don’t line manufacturers mark flyline anyways? It would seem to be a simple manufacturing step. Thanks Joe

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Hi: I had a similar problem when I found a full shoting head when steelhead fishing last winter.  I took into my local fly shop to see if they could help.  The owner simply weighed the line and checked a catalogue he had to identify the weight.  Give this a try. Chris Brown – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This past summer, my wife (god bless her) brought home a mint-condition model 1498 Pfleuger Medalist from one of her garage-sale sorties. It is loaded with backing and line in what appears to be unfished condition. Question: Is there any way I can figure out the weight of the line? There are no markings on it. Why don’t line manufacturers mark flyline anyways? It would seem to be a simple manufacturing step. Thanks Joe

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Weigh the last 30" of the line. — Ernie Harrison Fly Fishing Books, Blood Knot Machine Wading Boots, Making Rods, Fly Tying Box Go to:  http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This past summer, my wife (god bless her) brought home a mint-condition model 1498 Pfleuger Medalist from one of her garage-sale sorties. It is loaded with backing and line in what appears to be unfished condition. Question: Is there any way I can figure out the weight of the line? There are no markings on it. Why don’t line manufacturers mark flyline anyways? It would seem to be a simple manufacturing step. Thanks Joe

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Question: Is there any way I can figure out the weight of the line? There are no markings on it. Why don’t line manufacturers mark flyline anyways? It would seem to be a simple manufacturing step.

Thirty years of experience suggests either it is not simple or there is insufficient market demand. Weigh the last 30" of the line.

That should be the last 30′ (not ") excluding taper. Most people find it easier to try the line on a rod of known type and see how it feels. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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This past summer, my wife (god bless her) brought home a mint-condition model 1498 Pfleuger Medalist from one of her garage-sale sorties. It is loaded with backing and line in what appears to be unfished condition. Question: Is there any way I can figure out the weight of the line? There are no markings on it. Why don’t line manufacturers mark flyline anyways? It would seem to be a simple manufacturing step. Thanks Joe

Send me your shipping address and I’ll send you a bottle of PZ Line Dressing.   This is A MUST!  Do not attempt to cast this line until you dress it with PZ and get the placticizers back into the plastic coating. After you do this, you simply need to put it on a six weight fly rod which is the average weight used today and try it. Next, after you determine the weight fly rod the fly line is designed for, (and many times you can tell by when you have the fly line stretched out between ’stops’ so you can clean and recondition it.  (Let it set over night so the dressing has time to work before whipping it down and reloading it on the reel) Take an Indelable Marker Pen and a foot above the butt section ON the fly line, (if it is a seven weight for example) put a wide marker band for the number 5 and two narrow dot bands for the number one and then two add up to SEVEN.  I will try and use this key board to show you an example:  ___ _ _  = #7 WT  ___ _  = #6 WT   ___ = #5 WT  _ _ _ _ = #4 Wt Going the other way:  ___ _ _ _ = #8 WT If you want to remember if it is a DT or a WF fly line you can simply assume it is a double taper unless it has, six inches up the line another mark   _  to indicate Weight Forward because the extra mark is forward of your line wt.code. As you may well know, marking pens have a wide felt tip and a pointed one. But you get the idea and frankly, if you do this from now on, it is a system that will never let you down. Hope you like it.

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Question:

Need info on how to access the river below Brockaway Mills.

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Rich, I have never fished it myself…my buddies tell me below Brockway is better for smallies later in the season than trout.  That  not withstanding , the best advice for access is to call the warden for that area.  His name is Philip Howland and his number is 802 885 4975.  I am certain he can tell the easiest and most productive area in which to access.  Have fun. James James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service 1997 Guide of the Year Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

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Hi, My sister lives near Ascutney, and I fished the Williams a year ago. We went in near the power plant (dam) at Herrick’s Cove (I think that’s the name), and since the power co. had been letting no water out yet, it was high and quite good fishing. – went all over the cove area, and actually you could go right to the Conneticutt. Directions – take #5 hwy to the jct with 103, sign says NE power picnic area – boat access is there. If I remeber correctly, the rest of the water between the Mill and the cove was a series of small flatwater pools with lots of shallows in between – but then I was there in August ! Bill Need info on how to access the river below Brockaway Mills.

– Bill Curry Tight Lines Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.tightlines.ns.ca

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Question:

I am going fly fishing in the Sierras Oct. 1.  Has anyone been to Lake Crowley or Lake Sotcher recently.  If so can you let me know what you

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 Just got back on the 29th and grasshoppers are the hot ticket!!! I am going back Oct 8th for 6 more days.                  K.S. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going fly fishing in the Sierras Oct. 1.  Has anyone been to Lake Crowley or Lake Sotcher recently.  If so can you let me know what you

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Just got back on the 29th and grasshoppers are the hot ticket!!! I am going back Oct 8th for 6 more days.                 K.S.

RE: grasshoppers, were you fishing them in the lake or up at the mouth of the Owens where it drops into the lake? FAS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going fly fishing in the Sierras Oct. 1.  Has anyone been to Lake Crowley or Lake Sotcher recently.  If so can you let me know what you

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Question:

  Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly  Organization: ARG!   We were coming to Oregon this spring, me and my tourist dollars.   We’re heading to Washington state now.     TimW

We have a couple sections of fly-only in this state too.  Of course, like Oregon it amounts to about 0.0001% of the total, but there is some fly only water here too. e.g.         -Canyon section of upper Kalama         -N. Fork Stillaguamish (15 April – 31 Nov).         -Pass Lake In the case of the N.Fork Stilly, it is open for all tackle 1/2 the year (winter) and fly only in the summer.  This regulation dates back to a group of steelhead flyfishers who were way ahead of their time back in the 30’s and 40’s.  I fish this river quite a bit. The amount of garbage that accumulates each winter on the stilly is obscene.  By the end of the summer, it is mostly gone.  You don’t have to be a "rocket scientist" to figure out what is going on here. Our all-tackle rivers are filled with garbage.  The per-capita contribution of flyfishers is orders of magnitude less than that of the all-tackle group.  In many cases, the claims about the different methods of fishing, and their impact on the fish and surrounds is not without basis. Call me "elitist", but I am simply relating absolutely demonstrable fact from my area of experience. -tgades

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Oregon:    I think that you are ignoring (insensitive?) the fact that for anadromous species such as steelhead that flyfishers and the baitfishers work the streams differently.  In general, flyfishers work runs by casting and stepping down until all the water is covered.  The baitfishers tend to line up and park in one spot at fairly close intervals and preclude flyfishers from working runs (at least polite flyfishers which predominate here in Oregon).  I fished last weekend and was able to find only a single run that I could fish.  

I think the NG would greatly benefit if anglers at large would refrain from judging the reg’s outside of areas they are well familiar with. Being from BC I know what to say! Drift/spin fishing sometimes deliberately push flyfishers out of runs by parking themselves in a run. Load the whole run shoulder to shoulder and you and I may as well go home. I’ve also been cheesed by some who when I talk of the need for C&R on west coast streams that simply aren’t fertile enough to support more than a few hundred adult steelhead chastise me for fishing there at all. However I’ve been able ti bite my tongue and stay polite. Ask a few questions 1st then venture an opinion folks!       Ralph H

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Wait a sec, Bill.  If this was about a ’seriously declining fishery’ (guessing the N.Umpqua,) why allow any fishing at all?  Is fishing for those natives with a flyline of some kind easier on them than using the same fly on a drift rig?  And why change all of the new regs to protect one stretch of one river? responds to some of these questions).  I have heard that some of the fly fishers in the area have voiced concern about the use of sink tips and weighted flies.  Some say it is a dry fly vs wet/weighted fly flap, but clearly the take with dries (regardless of C&R) would be far smaller than is now the case.

Well, sure, but if the goal is to reduce take, why not just go ahead and shut the whole fishery down? The amazing thing is that Bill & Co. can claim that flyfishers are the only fishers that should be allowed to harass what they themselves admit is a depressed stock.  If that isn’t arrogance, I don’t know what it is.   The coordination of the FF’ing organizations that fought this thing is pretty damned impressive, but it was still a tantrum as far as I can tell. Your comment about this being the only stretch of water now limited to fly fishing equipment is mistaken.

Actually, I never said it was the only fly-only water.  I’m not sure what bit you’re referinig to, so: Above, I was asking why the ‘coalition’ that fought for the old regs to be reinstatedon all original fly water if it was only the N.Umpqua fish they were worried about (and I was only assuming Bill *was* talking about the N.Ump.) Below, you’ll find what was meant to be a bit of sarcasm; as in, the old fly-only regulations themselves were the ’seriously declining fishery’ in question, and not the N.Ump or wherever.  Didn’t make much sense, I guess Dave DeLacey Corvallis, Or. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe you meant that the ‘fly-only’ deal was a seriously declining fishery. Or maybe I don’t know enough about the issues, either.  Would you mind filling me in? Dave DeLacey

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  Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   I’m surprised that those three waters are the only ff only in the state.   I was under the impression (from my spincast days of yore) that there   were others.

Sorry to mislead.  I think that there are a couple others beside the Stilly, Kalama and Pass Lake, but I have not ever fished them.  I think that there are a couple little lakes and also a section of the Yakima? -tgades

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly  Organization: ARG!   We were coming to Oregon this spring, me and my tourist dollars.   We’re heading to Washington state now.   TimW We have a couple sections of fly-only in this state too.  Of course, like Oregon it amounts to about 0.0001% of the total, but there is some fly only water here too. e.g.         -Canyon section of upper Kalama         -N. Fork Stillaguamish (15 April – 31 Nov).         -Pass Lake

Just took a quick look at the regs from ‘96 – right away found at least one more water (Long Lake, Ferry Co.), plus an entry in the Statewide General Definitions at the front of the book: <<<<<<<<<<< "Fly Fishing Only"- In "Fly Fishing Only" waters an angler may only use the folowing tackle: a fly with a barbless single hook, hooks 1/2" or smaller when measured from point to shank, a conventional fly line (other line may be used for backing and leader if it is attached to a [sic] least 25′ of conventional fly line). An angler may not use the following: a fixed spool reel, weight attached to the leader or line [better load up the copper wrap on those nymphs, dudes!], bait, or monofilament leader that has a breaking strength of more than twelve pounds. Also found… McDowell Lake Bayley Lake July 5 – Oct. 31 Aeneas Lake …just in a quick look, and if you fish in Washington, you know that finding anything in that regs book is like spotting a smolt in the middle of the Elwah at flood stage. There are probably quite a few more. Hey, I found another grossly elitist reg in this book! Lake after lake is designated "Juvenile Only"! As a certified over-15-year-old, I want to know why our public waters are being set aside for the pleasure of a select few!  I’m going to give those bureaucrats down in Olympia a piece of my mind! Now if I could just find the number for F&W somewhere in this 120-page regs guide… Allen

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However I think tackle restrictions have to make sense and can’t be based solely on someones prejudice or bias. One thing I’ve gained from this and

That makes sense to me! other threads from you Jon, Tim W and Charlie Q is that I’m thinking more about these questions and not making mind up solely on someones ingrained bias that I’m better

Question:

Was wondering if anyone heard about a CD rom for Saltwater fly tying  that was coming out. I thought I heard the company that makes  Tying flies for trout Cd is making a Saltwater version.                                            appreciate any info,                                              BillSorry can’t help Bill, but while on sorta the same subject…

 Could someone advise on what might be available on CD-ROM with a fly-fishing flavor. I have heard of some, but suggestions are always welcome. Jay

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A new CD "Tying Flies for Saltwater" is being introduced at the Denver "Fly Tackle Dealers" trade show later this week. See also:

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Question:

How about some interesting new discussion topics, or maybe some fish stories? I can’t go fishing ’cause it’s exam time, but surely someone else has something entertaining to say. Montana Bob, stuck in the computer lab again.

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How about some interesting new discussion topics, or maybe some fish stories? I can’t go fishing ’cause it’s exam time, but surely someone else has something entertaining to say.

OK, I’m hoping to go out South of Buena Vista, Colorado (Brown’s Canyon, a summertime whitewater rafting haven, but full of trout) to flyfish on the Arkansas this coming Christmas week, since I’ve got most of the week off, but I’m wondering if I’ll run into problems with hard water (water so hard you can’t get your fly through it). It’s been pretty chilly (more than normal at least) lately, hopefully things will warm up a little soon. Anyone fished the Arkansas in cold weather with any luck? Lots of bead-head princes, I presume, what other flies/nymphs/sizes would you recommend? — Cray Computer Corporation    http://www.craycos.com/~ferguson/ferguson.html Colorado Springs, CO                                     Solely my opinions

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