Question:

Sounds like a FANTASTIC day on the water,  great report jh

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter Charles writes: <great report/info snipped Plans are in the offing for the next trip. Ok, I can’t make it tomorrow, but Friday is open!  d;o) Got home after an 8 hour drive (512 miles) in pouring rain, but every time I thought of those fish, I began to smile. If you’ve  fished with me, you know I don’t move around too well.  Legs and feet are very sore, but hotdamn, ya get an 18 pound salmon on a fly rod and he begins one (1) run that takes you well into your backing, ya hafta fall/leap out of the boat and run after the damn thing.  It ain’t fair.  But, is sure is heart thumping and adrenaline pumping.  And then, the bastid comes running back at you; once your get your line all wound up and clear,  he’s off on another run  into the backing   It is definitely weird to be running downstream in knee-deep water, with your flyrod high and see a fish jump 250 feet in front of you and realize that you are connected to that fish with a hundred feet of line, a hundred and forty feet of backing , 10 feet of 10 pound tippet and a fly that you *know* is gonna go straight any second.  Multiply that by 4 and you have an idea of the day Peter and I had on the Saugeen. I know where Peter lives.  I’ll be back, with a 10 foot 7 weight *with a fighting butt*, a Lamson 3.5 large arbor filled with wf line and as much backing as it can hold.  If not next month, Peter, count on late April/early May.  And this time we open the 18 year old stuff.  <G Dave

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(snip) It is definitely weird to be running downstream in knee-deep water, with your flyrod high and see a fish jump 250 feet in front of you and realize that you are connected to that fish with a hundred feet of line, a hundred and forty feet of backing , 10 feet of 10 pound tippet

(snip)     that whole thing is just crazy.  just freaking crazy.  i can’t imagine such an experience. yfitons wayno

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -wayno writes: (snip) It is definitely weird to be running downstream in knee-deep water, with your flyrod high and see a fish jump 250 feet in front of you and realize that you are connected to that fish with a hundred feet of line, a hundred and forty feet of backing , 10 feet of 10 pound tippet (snip)    that whole thing is just crazy.  just freaking crazy.  i can’t imagine such an experience. yfitons wayno

Save a day next may.  You can sleep in the rv.  I’ll let you use my 8 weight *with* the fighting butt.  I wanna see your scrawny ass runnin down the middle of this water.  <G Louie

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   that whole thing is just crazy.  just freaking crazy.  i can’t imagine such an experience. yfitons wayno

There’s a solution for that . . . . Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Peter Charles writes:    that whole thing is just crazy.  just freaking crazy.  i can’t imagine such an experience. yfitons wayno There’s a solution for that . . . . Peter

He’s used to catching iddy biddy trout the size of his dick, Peter.  He wouldn’t dream of going up and fishing with us.  The largest rod he has is a 2 weight – we’d have to loan him equipment and probably teach him how to cast it.  <seg  This water is meant for PJ and combat fishing. Louie (who hopes insults will move his scrawny ass)

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Peter He’s used to catching iddy biddy trout the size of his dick, Peter.  He wouldn’t dream of going up and fishing with us.  The largest rod he has is a 2 weight – we’d have to loan him equipment and probably teach him how to cast it. <seg  This water is meant for PJ and combat fishing. Louie (who hopes insults will move his scrawny ass)

That small eh?  In that case, I would think a 0 weight would be more appropriate.  If he came, we’d probably need a bosun’s chair just to lower him out of the boat.  BTW, think he can even lift an 8 wt.?  If he ever hooked a salmon, he’d probably throw the rod overboard from sheer fright.    (how am I doin’?) Peter

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It’s late, I’m beat, the pirate is whacked – this TR is gonna be short. Up at 4:30 and, on the road at 5:15, arrived at the store at 6:00, on the water by 8:00 and home by 9:00pm.   Louie before the trip, "I’m gonna take my 6 wt."   Told the Pirate not to bother with his vest or the 6 wt.   Well, we’re at the put-in and John Valk (owner/guide) is going "Nyet" to the 6 wt.  Out comes the 8 wt.  Now I’m looking at Louie and the fighting butt on the 8 wt. is missing, "I took it off." he says.  Silly boy.  By the end of the day, there’s no vest, the 6 wt. never left its tube and he has a hole in his sternum where he had stuck the reel seat on repeated occasions. Best shot of the day – watching Louie’s face as his backing rapidly disappears.  Second best shot of the day, seeing Louie running 100 yds downstream trying to retrieve his backing – after vaulting out of the drift boat. Anyway, a bunch of very feisty chinook was had and all returned in one piece (including the anglers).   Details at 6:00. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Anyway, a bunch of very feisty chinook was had and all returned in one piece (including the anglers).   Sounds great.  Were there any steelhead in as yet ? Remove "XX" from address

We saw a few but the real run hasn’t gone going yet.  We need colder temps and a *lot* more water. As John fussed with the boat and stuff, there were a bunch of salmon playing in the shallows.  I had a poke at them with the big stick but no joy.  With that experience, I put it away and took out a single hander. Dave got out a rarely used Orvis 8 wt. with a big sinktip that proved to be a difficult line to use in the low water conditions. Dave, by his own admission, was unsure what this fishing would be about and when we found a pod of about 20 salmon cavorting about, he had two silver dollars for eyeballs.   John has a particular way of doing a wet fly swing (he likes the fly oriented north-south – I tend to a broadside presentation) but we both used John’s technique.  We swim the fly in front of the pod and hope that a big, pissed-off male will charge out and nail it.  Frequently, we were not disappointed and Dave got a very lively fish out of this pod within a couple of minutes. Dave hooked up first (a fish probably in the low teens) which promptly peeled off all of his line and a good quantity of backing.  It was a great intro to Saugeen salmon fishing.  He eventually ended up about 100 yards downstream where the fish was netted. A couple of points about these fish.  Credit River salmon are stocked and live in Lake Ontario whereas the Saugeen fish are naturals and live in Lake Huron.  You cannot imagine how much difference this results in.  Saugeen fish, even 70 miles upstream, are fairly bright and in excellent shape.  Credit River stockers are only a few miles up stream and already black and rotting.  The Saugeen fish takes off at a high rate of knots when released, even after a long fight.  He’s usually back cavorting in a minute or two.  Credit River fish often roll over an die upon release after a half-hearted fight.  John told us a story of catching the same chinook three times in succession and it fought just as hard the third time as it did the first. The Saugeen was especially low and clear so the fish were always very obvious.  We drifted over a few steelhead, loads of huge smallies, some browns, red horse suckers, carp, and a few unidentified.  The colours were especially bright in the high sun, and with the warm day, it was a very pleasant trip all-round. Final results were something like four fish each landed and multiple hookups (including one double).  Most of the fish were in the teens but one of mine was over 20 lbs.  We saw and hooked a few bruisers that ran over 30.  All of them took off in long runs.  Some of the fish were quite aerobatic with jumps, lunges and tumbles that often resulted in them being wrapped up in line.  One of mine began to fight funny after a few minutes. On initial hookup, the fish stuck his head out of the water with an open mouthed head shake that told of a fair hook.  By the time we got him landed, the fly was still in his mouth but he had about five winds of line around one fin.  Dave had one where the fly started off in it’s mouth and ended up in it’s tail.  We figured it too got wrapped up in line and then the fly came loose only to reattach. I’ll have a trip on my site by next week with pics that will give some indication of the river and the fish.   It was fun as always having the Pirate up and Thanksgiving dinner will long be remembered for the gales of laughter and the sore sides we had in the morning. Plans are in the offing for the next trip. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Peter Charles writes: <great report/info snipped Plans are in the offing for the next trip.

Don’t wait too long. Ok, I can’t make it tomorrow, but Friday is open!  d;o)

At the Salmon River, Saugeen next week. Got home after an 8 hour drive (512 miles) in pouring rain, but every time I thought of those fish, I began to smile.

probably brighter than those bright blue Audi headlights. If you’ve  fished with me, you know I don’t move around too well.  Legs and feet are very sore, but hotdamn, ya get an 18 pound salmon on a fly rod and he begins one (1) run that takes you well into your backing, ya hafta fall/leap out of the boat and run after the damn thing.  It ain’t fair.  But, is sure is heart thumping and adrenaline pumping.  And then, the bastid comes running back at you; once your get your line all wound up and clear,  he’s off on another run  into the backing   It is definitely weird to be running downstream in knee-deep water, with your flyrod high and see a fish jump 250 feet in front of you and realize that you are connected to that fish with a hundred feet of line, a hundred and forty feet of backing , 10 feet of 10 pound tippet and a fly that you *know* is gonna go straight any second.  Multiply that by 4 and you have an idea of the day Peter and I had on the Saugeen.  

It was a memorable day fer sure.   I know where Peter lives.  I’ll be back, with a 10 foot 7 weight *with a fighting butt*, a Lamson 3.5 large arbor filled with wf line and as much backing as it can hold. If not next month, Peter, count on late April/early May.  And this time we open the 18 year old stuff.  <G

You mean, like again! Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Peter Charles writes:

<great report/info snipped Plans are in the offing for the next trip.

Ok, I can’t make it tomorrow, but Friday is open!  d;o) Got home after an 8 hour drive (512 miles) in pouring rain, but every time I thought of those fish, I began to smile. If you’ve  fished with me, you know I don’t move around too well.  Legs and feet are very sore, but hotdamn, ya get an 18 pound salmon on a fly rod and he begins one (1) run that takes you well into your backing, ya hafta fall/leap out of the boat and run after the damn thing.  It ain’t fair.  But, is sure is heart thumping and adrenaline pumping.  And then, the bastid comes running back at you; once your get your line all wound up and clear,  he’s off on another run  into the backing   It is definitely weird to be running downstream in knee-deep water, with your flyrod high and see a fish jump 250 feet in front of you and realize that you are connected to that fish with a hundred feet of line, a hundred and forty feet of backing , 10 feet of 10 pound tippet and a fly that you *know* is gonna go straight any second.  Multiply that by 4 and you have an idea of the day Peter and I had on the Saugeen.   I know where Peter lives.  I’ll be back, with a 10 foot 7 weight *with a fighting butt*, a Lamson 3.5 large arbor filled with wf line and as much backing as it can hold.  If not next month, Peter, count on late April/early May.  And this time we open the 18 year old stuff.  <G Dave

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Sounds like a great trip. Sight fishing for big fish, can’t beat that! Did you catch anything other than the Chinooks?

Nope, we were hoping for steelhead but the conditions were too warm and the water too low.  We saw lots of smallies but with the low, clear water, we saw them when we spooked them.   Not sure I’d call the the Saugeen fish "natural" but the same differences you found here between the stocked and streambred salmon also applies to trout. Even though the genetics might be the same, the stocked fish act differently even after being in the wild for a considerable time. Willi

I used the term ‘natural’ to mean naturally reproducing.  While these chinook exhibit superior characteristics as compared to their stocked cousins, I haven’t seem the same difference between natural and stocked browns on the Grand.  That may have something to do with how the Grand stocking program is managed. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I thought that Ontario had stopped stocking chinook altogether, but I guess not, eh ?   The strain of chinook used for stocking is one that does not move in until quite late.  I’ve read that what has happened in some cases where natural reproduction has been established is that over generations the salmon have tended to come into rivers earlier and earlier prior to spawning.  It sounds like the Saugeen is one of them.

I’ve always understood that Credit River chinook were stocked as the prospects for natural reproduction were poor.  John confirmed that they were stockers. I’ve not heard about earlier runs but with the Saugeen being farther north, an earlier run is to be expected.  There’s no question that they are much healthier fish. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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      Anyway, a bunch of very feisty chinook was had and all returned in one   piece (including the anglers).       Sounds great.  Were there any steelhead in as yet ?     Remove "XX" from address       A couple of points about these fish.  Credit River salmon are stocked   and live in Lake Ontario whereas the Saugeen fish are naturals and   live in Lake Huron.  You cannot imagine how much difference this   results in.  Saugeen fish, even 70 miles upstream, are fairly bright   and in excellent shape.  Credit River stockers are only a few miles up   stream and already black and rotting.  The Saugeen fish takes off at a   high rate of knots when released, even after a long fight.  He’s   usually back cavorting in a minute or two.  Credit River fish often   roll over an die upon release after a half-hearted fight.  John told   us a story of catching the same chinook three times in succession and   it fought just as hard the third time as it did the first. Sounds like a great trip. Sight fishing for big fish, can’t beat that! Did you catch anything other than the Chinooks? Not sure I’d call the the Saugeen fish "natural" but the same differences you found here between the stocked and streambred salmon also applies to trout. Even though the genetics might be the same, the stocked fish act differently even after being in the wild for a considerable time. Willi

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Question:

Look, you ignorant fool.  I’ll mess with you until hell freezes over. If I remember correctly, (and I do) she wanted the address so we could send a massive surprise to everyone attending – Perhaps they had no reason to believe that. Perhaps Waldo wasn’t in the habit of giving out addresses over the phone to people who don’t identify themselves. I don’t blame him if that’s the reason. _____NO.  You are NOT an honest person and businessman.  You gripe too much, you have a temper that is unreasonable and you always make sure you get your pound of flesh when you’re wrong . . . which is often. THAT, my dear pal is a fact of life regarding you.

oh man, this is really rich. George, the "psycho" analyst see ya george, walt

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There you go, sugar coating your anti-georgian diatribes agian. Com’on Wolfie.  Take the gloves off <g.

Georgie has always brought out the best in me, as he has in all of us. We have much to thank him for. Or, as the inimitable Mr. Johnson once put it, "No one could possibly think more highly of him than I do, and I do not think much of him at all."      :)

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[deleted] I have to go back to the Mayo Clinic this week end.  If I walk out of it, you have a date.

Don’t even think about not walking out. Ain’t an option. There’s damned few of us left as it is. I’m going to log off now and say the best prayer that I know how. We’re with ya George. Your pal. — TBone

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I have to go back to the Mayo Clinic this week end.  If I walk out of it, you have a date.

Best of luck to you, George, you miserable sack of shit. Are you having your plumbing upgraded? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Wolfgang Siebeneich wrote … Did it never occur to you, you miserable fucking excuse for a human being that there might be people on this planet to whom an added expense, however small, might actually be a burden?  And did it never occur to you that the contributions already made by the people who brought off this clave are already a great deal more than you could ever hope to do despite your wealth?  Remember the parable of the poor woman who gave all that she had, you worthless piece of excrement? "…one cents worth"?  You vastly overestimate your value.

There you go, sugar coating your anti-georgian diatribes agian. Com’on Wolfie.  Take the gloves off <g. —                                                       -dnc-

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I have to go back to the Mayo Clinic this week end.  If I walk out of it, you have a date. Best of luck to you, George, you miserable sack of shit. Are you having your plumbing upgraded?

medical center.  They not only love my money they love me as many doctors are fly fishermen.  If I have a chance at all, I’m in the right place rw. I could say I hope your wife leaves you, or your kids fails in school but the ultimate insult would be to wish your dog dies which I won’t do.  Therefore, I hope your wife leaves you and marries her boy friend and that I end up with your dog.  How’s that for miserable shit? : ) — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

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medical center.  They not only love my money they love me as many doctors are fly fishermen.  If I have a chance at all, I’m in the right place rw. I could say I hope your wife leaves you, or your kids fails in school but the ultimate insult would be to wish your dog dies which I won’t do.  Therefore, I hope your wife leaves you and marries her boy friend and that I end up with your dog.

That’s looking more and more probable all the time. You’ll never get my dog, though. Again, George, good luck. Listen to the doctors. Do what they say. Don’t be a pain in the ass. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – medical center.  They not only love my money they love me as many doctors are fly fishermen.  If I have a chance at all, I’m in the right place rw. I could say I hope your wife leaves you, or your kids fails in school but the ultimate insult would be to wish your dog dies which I won’t do.  Therefore, I hope your wife leaves you and marries her boy friend and that I end up with your dog. That’s looking more and more probable all the time. You’ll never get my dog, though. Again, George, good luck. Listen to the doctors. Do what they say. Don’t be a pain in the ass. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

_____  I am never that.  I’m the kind of patient doctors love.  I’m a fighter.  I walked out of the Mayo Clinic 13 years ago after my by-passes in five days and flew my own airplane home.  It was a new Mayo Clinic record.  If I die, it will be Walt Winters fault. — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

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George writes: I have to go back to the Mayo Clinic this week end.  If I walk out of it, you have a date. Good luck, George. Dave LaCourse

______  These will be the last words I will take with me when they apply the gas David. Thanks, — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

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  I know for a fact that Doug Knight donated some mighty fine flies and he never got a thank you, go to hell or kiss my ass.  If my memory serves me right, his flies never were delivered or there was a short-coming which really isn’t my business that upset him.  I know the man was not pleased the way his donation was handled.

George, Doug’s Flies were raffled at the Fall Ball as they didn’t reach Wayno’s clave in time. He was made aware of that. I know it’s none of my business, but since it concerns roff, have you paid back Doug yet all that money, it has been a year? I’m also annoyed that none of my prizes were not shipped to me.  Walt Winter kept them.

George, I kept your winnings from the first raffle and re-entered them in the fall ball in a moment of heartfelt concern. My mistake,  I should have sent them you… Various non-gink floatants and Orvis products. I guess I should have sent them to you so you could at least see what the hell a quality product is like. George, I would have guessed that you would know better by now not to mess with me. BTW, you spineless twit, having Gladys call me anonymously prior to the clave to acquire centrals address was really in poor taste. It was fun listening to her stammer as I kept asking her who I was speaking to. You go George, you really do, straight to hell. Unlike you George, I am an honest person and businessman. I repeat.  If you guys can’t afford the shipping of prizes, I will back the clave up.  Its the least I can do for the clave.

George, here’s a silver tael, buy yourself a casket.   I just had other matters to look after that were beyond my control. Dementia? See ya pal, Waldo

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Walt quotes and writes:   I know for a fact that Doug Knight donated some mighty fine flies and he never got a thank you, go to hell or kiss my ass.  If my memory serves me right, his flies never were delivered or there was a short-coming which really isn’t my business that upset him.  I know the man was not pleased the way his donation was handled. George, Doug’s Flies were raffled at the Fall Ball as they didn’t reach Wayno’s clave in time. He was made aware of that. I know it’s none of my business, but since it concerns roff, have you paid back Doug yet all that money, it has been a year? I’m also annoyed that none of my prizes were not shipped to me.  Walt Winter kept them. George, I kept your winnings from the first raffle and re-entered them in the fall ball in a moment of heartfelt concern. My mistake,  I should have sent them you… Various non-gink floatants and Orvis products. I guess I should have sent them to you so you could at least see what the hell a quality product is like. George, I would have guessed that you would know better by now not to mess with me. BTW, you spineless twit, having Gladys call me anonymously prior to the clave to acquire centrals address was really in poor taste. It was fun listening to her stammer as I kept asking her who I was speaking to. You go George, you really do, straight to hell. Unlike you George, I am an honest person and businessman. I repeat.  If you guys can’t afford the shipping of prizes, I will back the clave up.  Its the least I can do for the clave. George, here’s a silver tael, buy yourself a casket. I just had other matters to look after that were beyond my control. Dementia? See ya pal, Waldo

Doug Knight’s flies were won by someone at the fall ball and we all raved about the quality of the flies.  It was one of the most coveted of gifts.  I believe Doug won something, I can not recall what, and it was either shipped to him or he turned it down.   My biggest concern about Doug is wondering if he ever got paid for the rods he built.   George won one of my donations to the May Clave 1999.  I believe it was a bottle of floatant and some strike indicators, all marketed by Orvis.  If George would like, I will purchase more of the same and *gladly* send them to him.  But, he has to promise to use them and not throw them in the trash can. <g Dave  d;0)

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< snipped a lot of vocal diarrhea Mr. G.

Damn, every time I think he is finally gone he shows up again. Turn on your filters. Ernie Harrison

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  I know for a fact that Doug Knight donated some mighty fine flies and he never got a thank you, go to hell or kiss my ass.  If my memory serves me right, his flies never were delivered or there was a short-coming which really isn’t my business that upset him.  I know the man was not pleased the way his donation was handled. George, Doug’s Flies were raffled at the Fall Ball as they didn’t reach Wayno’s clave in time. He was made aware of that. I know it’s none of my business, but since it concerns roff, have you paid back Doug yet all that money, it has been a year?

______  Well frankly, it’s none of your business, is it?   I’m also annoyed that none of my prizes were not shipped to me.  Walt Winter kept them. George, I kept your winnings from the first raffle and re-entered them in the fall ball in a moment of heartfelt concern. My mistake,  I should have sent them you… Various non-gink floatants and Orvis products. I guess I should have sent them to you so you could at least see what the hell a quality product is like. George, I would have guessed that you would know better by now not to mess with me. BTW, you spineless twit, having Gladys call me anonymously prior to the clave to acquire centrals address was really in poor taste. It was fun listening to her stammer as I kept asking her who I was speaking to. You go George, you really do, straight to hell.

Look, you ignorant fool.  I’ll mess with you until hell freezes over. If I remember correctly, (and I do) she wanted the address so we could send a massive surprise to everyone attending – but because of YOU, you ungrateful moron, everyone didn’t get the shipment.  Talk about spineless twit, that best describes you and your continued name calling only lowers you.  I’ve had you figured out for a long time pal and you are frankly "a user."  As long as something benefits YOU, you’re all for it.  Anytime you touch anything, there has to be a hook in it so you can get your share.  Why is that Walt? Yes, I don’t care what the prizes were, you had no right to auction off the prizes, as you said.  The question is, where is my money?  Another way to ask it, is what did you DO with the money?  Use it to help pay shipping costs? What is so lousy about you is your sense of fun.   Unlike you George, I am an honest person and businessman.

_____NO.  You are NOT an honest person and businessman.  You gripe too much, you have a temper that is unreasonable and you always make sure you get your pound of flesh when you’re wrong . . . which is often. THAT, my dear pal is a fact of life regarding you.   I repeat.  If you guys can’t afford the shipping of prizes, I will back the clave up.  Its the least I can do for the clave. George, here’s a silver tael, buy yourself a casket.

______  Well, I’ll let you buy my casket with all the money you seem to squeeze out of everyone with your ’surprise tactics’.  I’m sure when I die, no one of your caliber will be able to fill the void.  Dying for me will be soon enough.  I’m sure that news will make your day.     I just had other matters to look after that were beyond my control. Dementia? See ya pal,

______ I’m sure when you do, the pleasure will be all yours.   Waldo (The cry-baby of ROFF) The man that always bites the hands that feed him.  

– Just remember this Walt.  This thread started with an offer by us to help with the prizes being shipped.  If you can’t handle it, let a man do the job next time.  I certainly was impressed with daytripper’s efforts and post this morning.  Why is that? Because its the WAY he does things.  He and I may have differences but at least he has a real ’sense’ for fairness.  That, I will give him. You, on the other hand, are nothing more than a hustler. This is my final answer. Mr.G http://www.gink.com

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George, here’s a silver tael, buy yourself a casket.

Um, wouidn’t that be a pyre on a float boat?  Send it UPS…

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_______  It appears to me that your false misgivings regarding others is a continued sham of lies.  

That you’re a miserable excuse for a person? That isn’t a lie. It’s an opinion. An extreme one, but defensible. I am not old

Just old enough to fly an F-86 upside down over the Kremlin during the Korean War… If shipping is a ball breaker, then there is such a thing as Shipping C.O.D. <snip I’m also annoyed that none of my prizes were not shipped to me.  Walt Winter kept them.

Maybe they shipped UPS? "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

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Dear Mr G    Have never hearde your biographicsal stories but hope you will join me at Western clave for some fishing time. You must have some good stories because the guys at the claves always mentiomn them. This last clave was sort of a bummer for me.  Only three or four of the guys were willing to give up a day of fishing with new friends to suffer thru a day watching me hang up in trees  and watching the fish exit the pools before I could get set up for casting standing in the middle of the pool. One guy even took pictures of me fishing and showed them to the crowd at night,  showing no real concern for a  brginner like me who is real bashful  and self conscinus.  I was not lucky at the raaffel as I won only a reel and a matching line, not a single fly!! And some of those guys a really cheap.  Tom  probably spent a couple of hundred dollars feeding everyone and Walt  only invest a couple of hundred in the clave package everyone received when they arrived.The worst thing was Palmico Jim  who drank one half of a boddle of Reserve Wild Turkey someone donated, that only left half a bottle for me.  Hope you western guys tread Indians a little better , and the fish are easier to catch,  Indian Joe

Response:

Look, you ignorant fool.  I’ll mess with you until hell freezes over. If I remember correctly, (and I do) she wanted the address so we could send a massive surprise to everyone attending –

Perhaps they had no reason to believe that. Perhaps Waldo wasn’t in the habit of giving out addresses over the phone to people who don’t identify themselves. I don’t blame him if that’s the reason. _____NO.  You are NOT an honest person and businessman.  You gripe too much, you have a temper that is unreasonable and you always make sure you get your pound of flesh when you’re wrong . . . which is often. THAT, my dear pal is a fact of life regarding you.  

Have you paid Doug Knight yet? "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

Response:

That would be a waste of a good float boat, how about a box of matches and an old inner tube? Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George, here’s a silver tael, buy yourself a casket. Um, wouidn’t that be a pyre on a float boat?  Send it UPS…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Mr G    Have never hearde your biographicsal stories but hope you will join me at Western clave for some fishing time. You must have some good stories because the guys at the claves always mentiomn them. This last clave was sort of a bummer for me.  Only three or four of the guys were willing to give up a day of fishing with new friends to suffer thru a day watching me hang up in trees  and watching the fish exit the pools before I could get set up for casting standing in the middle of the pool. One guy even took pictures of me fishing and showed them to the crowd at night,  showing no real concern for a  brginner like me who is real bashful  and self conscinus.  I was not lucky at the raaffel as I won only a reel and a matching line, not a single fly!! And some of those guys a really cheap.  Tom  probably spent a couple of hundred dollars feeding everyone and Walt  only invest a couple of hundred in the clave package everyone received when they arrived.The worst thing was Palmico Jim  who drank one half of a boddle of Reserve Wild Turkey someone donated, that only left half a bottle for me.  Hope you western guys tread Indians a little better , and the fish are easier to catch,  Indian Joe

_____  Well Joe, you wouldn’t be pulling my chain now, would you?  LOL. If it is possible, I would be pleased to go fishing with you.  Just you and I.  Tom has a big heart and is a first class act.  No doubting that Joseph.   I have to go back to the Mayo Clinic this week end.  If I walk out of it, you have a date. — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

Response:

Have you paid Doug Knight yet? "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

_____ Do you still beat your wife Mike? — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

Response:

George writes: I have to go back to the Mayo Clinic this week end.  If I walk out of it, you have a date.

Good luck, George. Dave LaCourse

Response:

My one cents worth gents…. If you guys are too cheap to handle the shipping, ship all the prizes and send me the bill.  I’ll pay for it.  Its the least I can do for my fellow "Sportsmen".

You know George, after determining that you truly are a sick man, I had promised myself that I would no longer respond to any more of your demented ravings, but this latest attempt to aggrandize yourself at the expense of someone who has gone to a great deal of trouble and expense to provide a wonderful experience to a lot of people to whom he owed nothing is really too much to bear silently.  Did it never occur to you, you miserable fucking excuse for a human being that there might be people on this planet to whom an added expense, however small, might actually be a burden?  And did it never occur to you that the contributions already made by the people who brought off this clave are already a great deal more than you could ever hope to do despite your wealth?  Remember the parable of the poor woman who gave all that she had, you worthless piece of excrement? "…one cents worth"?  You vastly overestimate your value.

Response:

_____  I was supposed to get my prize last year, which I never got. Guess SOMEONE must have sold it to start up his business? Frankly, I think there should be a silent auction AFTER Roff decides to support a faction regarding trout and/or streams.  I think using funds to support a newsletter or a favorite Catch and Release Stream (making T-Bone the President) might have merit. There is nothing wrong with Roff that thinking of improving our sport wouldn’t help. When a conclave has finished and so many complaints are written regarding "some thoughts" as found in a bad "After Drink" I would say the stream has some rogue fish in it. My one cents worth gents.  Anyone who bitches about shipping expenses is nothing more than a cheap date.  Ship the dang prizes because that is the department the prize holders KNEW was part of the deal.  Why cause trouble and make others feel they are trouble to others for winning?  I would think any one of the touted lawyers could afford at least that expense for the Conclave. If you guys are too cheap to handle the shipping, ship all the prizes and send me the bill.  I’ll pay for it.  Its the least I can do for my fellow "Sportsmen".   — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

snipped stupidity: _______  It appears to me that your false misgivings regarding others is a continued sham of lies.  I am not old and I’m not demented and I’m certainly not stooping to silly ravings.  It’s you that goes over board to defame others you piece of worthless mouse shit.  It is not me that is crying about expenses and what you take to be an aggrandizement is indeed a false charge. Listen ace.  I’m not the one that is bitching and complaining about anything except the complaining that continues regarding the prizes at all the ‘Eastern Conclaves?’  I didn’t start it but I’m certainly able to assist in it.  Whoever is in control of distributing the prizes needs to pay for the shipping.  He or They KNEW that was part of the deal. Why cry in public about what it takes to ship things?  The shipping charges should be part of "That Person’s" donation to making the conclave a success.  Are you trying to tell me and everyone now that THAT wasn’t ‘assumed’ or known, or a fact of life issue?  If shipping is a ball breaker, then there is such a thing as Shipping C.O.D. No it doesn’t occur to me that anyone that can travel to a conclave to have fun with ‘the boys,’ is hurting financially.  I’m just tired of listening to the gripes and bickering and poor me alligator tears that continue since the first time around regarding prize problems.  I know for a fact that Doug Knight donated some mighty fine flies and he never got a thank you, go to hell or kiss my ass.  If my memory serves me right, his flies never were delivered or there was a short-coming which really isn’t my business that upset him.  I know the man was not pleased the way his donation was handled.  I’m also annoyed that none of my prizes were not shipped to me.  Walt Winter kept them.  Let’s call it the way it is. He never followed through.  I regard that as a cheap shot just like some who cannot afford to get the gifts to the people who won and deserved them.  Get it pal?  (Or hasn’t your elevator reached the top floor yet?) Look, its alright for me to donate expensive fly rods to charity and for worthwhile causes, right?  But when it comes my turn to get a cheap T-shirt – I don’t rate? Give me a break!  And that isn’t all of it pal. So I would appreciate it if you would continue to mind your own business Wolfgang and stop talking about those things you know little or nothing about.  Okay? I repeat.  If you guys can’t afford the shipping of prizes, I will back the clave up.  Its the least I can do for the clave. Incidentally Wolfgang, you stooping to name calling of others really is uncalled for. Sometimes, principle is more valuable and is the cement of friendships.  I certainly have the sense that there are some who are not happy about certain prize events.  All I’m saying is if there is a financial problem, I’m here to help with it even though I didn’t attend the conclave (as much as I wanted to).  I just had other matters to look after that were beyond my control. Mr. G.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snipped stupidity: _______  It appears to me that your false misgivings regarding others is a continued sham of lies.  I am not old and I’m not demented and I’m certainly not stooping to silly ravings.  It’s you that goes over board to defame others you piece of worthless mouse shit.  It is not me that is crying about expenses and what you take to be an aggrandizement is indeed a false charge. Listen ace.  I’m not the one that is bitching and complaining about anything except the complaining that continues regarding the prizes at all the ‘Eastern Conclaves?’  I didn’t start it but I’m certainly able to assist in it.  Whoever is in control of distributing the prizes needs to pay for the shipping.  He or They KNEW that was part of the deal. Why cry in public about what it takes to ship things?  The shipping charges should be part of "That Person’s" donation to making the conclave a success.  Are you trying to tell me and everyone now that THAT wasn’t ‘assumed’ or known, or a fact of life issue?  If shipping is a ball breaker, then there is such a thing as Shipping C.O.D. No it doesn’t occur to me that anyone that can travel to a conclave to have fun with ‘the boys,’ is hurting financially.  I’m just tired of listening to the gripes and bickering and poor me alligator tears that continue since the first time around regarding prize problems.  I know for a fact that Doug Knight donated some mighty fine flies and he never got a thank you, go to hell or kiss my ass.  If my memory serves me right, his flies never were delivered or there was a short-coming which really isn’t my business that upset him.  I know the man was not pleased the way his donation was handled.  I’m also annoyed that none of my prizes were not shipped to me.  Walt Winter kept them.  Let’s call it the way it is. He never followed through.  I regard that as a cheap shot just like some who cannot afford to get the gifts to the people who won and deserved them.  Get it pal?  (Or hasn’t your elevator reached the top floor yet?) Look, its alright for me to donate expensive fly rods to charity and for worthwhile causes, right?  But when it comes my turn to get a cheap T-shirt – I don’t rate? Give me a break!  And that isn’t all of it pal. So I would appreciate it if you would continue to mind your own business Wolfgang and stop talking about those things you know little or nothing about.  Okay? I repeat.  If you guys can’t afford the shipping of prizes, I will back the clave up.  Its the least I can do for the clave. Incidentally Wolfgang, you stooping to name calling of others really is uncalled for. Sometimes, principle is more valuable and is the cement of friendships.  I certainly have the sense that there are some who are not happy about certain prize events.  All I’m saying is if there is a financial problem, I’m here to help with it even though I didn’t attend the conclave (as much as I wanted to).  I just had other matters to look after that were beyond my control. Mr. G.

ahh G, so good to have you back.  hope you’re doin ok. we all missed you at Waldo’s Spring Fling…there were waterfalls climbed in your absence. jeff

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Legendary BC FF’er Jack Shaw who introduced the concept of ‘imitation’ to the province and single handedly invented chironomid fishing passed away late last week. Shaw, whose formal education never exceeded 7 years of public school, authored 2 books ("Flyfish the Trout Lakes" and "Fly Patterns for Trophy Trout") and numerous magazine articles. He also taught scores of BC anglers to tie flies. Jack was admired for his unpretentious manner and dedication to fly fishing. Jack Shaw will be missed on the Kamloops Lakes. A true gentleman who taught several generations to cast, tie, and fish a fly. He made us "aware" of what was happening on and under the surface of the lake. He’ll be missed but not forgotten! Don

_______  If heaven is Catch and Release, Catch one for me Jack Shaw. — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/  Updates http://www.gink.com/chat Flyfishing Conversations 6:00 PM PST till after midnight.

Response:

Legendary BC FF’er Jack Shaw who introduced the concept of ‘imitation’ to the province and single handedly invented chironomid fishing passed away late last week. Shaw, whose formal education never exceeded 7 years of public school, authored 2 books ("Flyfish the Trout Lakes" and "Fly Patterns for Trophy Trout") and numerous magazine articles. He also taught scores of BC anglers to tie flies. Jack was admired for his unpretentious manner and dedication to fly fishing.

Jack Shaw will be missed on the Kamloops Lakes. A true gentleman who taught several generations to cast, tie, and fish a fly. He made us "aware" of what was happening on and under the surface of the lake. He’ll be missed but not forgotten! Don

Response:

That was my boyhood hero Ted Peck. Host of "Tide and Trials" plus a Sunday night radio, outdoors talk show and a successful salmon charter business. Ted fell on very hard times – both his son’s were killed in (separate) accidents and he lost his business in the following personal troubles. Since his retirement he has been working at Jaymer’s shop in Port Coquitlam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   He told me his name, but I had forgotten it…

Response:

That’s it Ted Peck at Jaymer’s.  Had forgotten the names but when you reminded me, they clicked right into place.  Thanks for the info. —                                                       -dnc- RalphH wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That was my boyhood hero Ted Peck. …

Response:

That’s too bad. I have read Jack Shaw’s books, and benefited greatly from them. I am saddened to hear of his passing. He was, indeed, a legend. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Legendary BC FF’er Jack Shaw who introduced the concept of ‘imitation’ to the province and single handedly invented chironomid fishing passed away late last week. Shaw, whose formal education never exceeded 7 years of public school, authored 2 books ("Flyfish the Trout Lakes" and "Fly Patterns for Trophy Trout") and numerous magazine articles. He also taught scores of BC anglers to tie flies. Jack was admired for his unpretentious manner and dedication to fly fishing.

Response:

A few years ago, I was visiting family in Port Coquitlam and my brother-in-law and I happened to go into a fly shop located in a little strip mall in the NE section of town.  We got to talking to an ‘old-timer’ in there who was extremely friendly, showed us how to tie some knots and offered to give us a brief casting lesson…unsolicited of course, we just came in to buy a few flies. My brother-in-law recognized him as a well known personality in Canadian fly fishing (Had a flyfishing TV Show at one time, too, I think).  He told me his name, but I had forgotten it…Jack Shaw seems to ring a bell though.  Think it could have been him?  Little embarrassing to have forgotten his name but I sure remember his gracious manner toward us. —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

Legendary BC FF’er Jack Shaw who introduced the concept of ‘imitation’ to the province and single handedly invented chironomid fishing passed away late last week. Shaw, whose formal education never exceeded 7 years of public school, authored 2 books ("Flyfish the Trout Lakes" and "Fly Patterns for Trophy Trout") and numerous magazine articles. He also taught scores of BC anglers to tie flies. Jack was admired for his unpretentious manner and dedication to fly fishing.

Response:

Question:

Shad (serious snip)

Hi, The Annapolis River up here just got through it’s shad run which is still very good. had a lient down from ontario, he ot 3 fish in a couple of hours using clouser minnows. We like the chartruese ones, but others would probably work…. Bill — Bill Curry Tight Lines Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada Phone or Fax :  902-656-3329 http://www.tightlines.ns.ca

Response:

Shad (serious snip)

Hi, The Annapolis River up here just got through it’s shad run which is still very good. Had a client down from Ontario, he got 3 fish in a couple of hours using clouser minnows. We like the chartruese ones, but others would probably work…. Bill — Bill Curry Tight Lines Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada Phone or Fax :  902-656-3329 http://www.tightlines.ns.ca

Response:

I used to religously fish the American River (Sailor Bar/Nimbus) area in mid to late June for shad (pre-kids). Now that the kids are getting older I’m hoping to get back into it again. We used to use a fly similar to the Crazy Charlie Bonefish Fly – bead eyes, chartruese tail and silver/pearl foil bodies. Anyone out there using the latest and greatest that would be willing to share trade secrets? and/or any recommendations for guides in the same area? Thanks

Response:

Michael: I like to fish for shad along the Sacramento River at Willows and in Chico. There a fly shop in Chico, the Powell Fly shop I believe, that has good information on how the run is progressing.     The flys are fairly simple, chartruese, pink, red, white and silver are good colors and use either bead heads or bead eyes.  Mix and match the tail and body colors. The reports this year have been dissapointing, too much water that is too cold and off color for any good fishing.  If you want more info re flys feel free to e-mail me. Chis Brown – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I used to religously fish the American River (Sailor Bar/Nimbus) area in mid to late June for shad (pre-kids). Now that the kids are getting older I’m hoping to get back into it again. We used to use a fly similar to the Crazy Charlie Bonefish Fly – bead eyes, chartruese tail and silver/pearl foil bodies. Anyone out there using the latest and greatest that would be willing to share trade secrets? and/or any recommendations for guides in the same area? Thanks

Response:

: I used to religously fish the American River (Sailor Bar/Nimbus) area in : mid to late June for shad (pre-kids). Now that the kids are getting : older I’m hoping to get back into it again. We used to use a fly similar : to the Crazy Charlie Bonefish Fly – bead eyes, chartruese tail and : silver/pearl foil bodies. Anyone out there using the latest and greatest : that would be willing to share trade secrets? and/or any recommendations : for guides in the same area? I have caught them on small chartreuse and white clousers in the Merrimack River in Massachusettes.

Response:

Hello TMR, I went out to Upper Sunrise (just below Sailor Bar) a couple of nights ago: the water is still cold and I did not see any fish working.  Sahd fishing is one of the great early summer fishing opportunities along the American.  The fish fight well and they CAN be caught in numbers if conditions are right.  A Crazy Charlie will work, but there are some standard pink, green, and white shad flies that seem to be regularly used on the Sac.  Most fly shops have a good selection , but if you tie your own they are very easy.  I have heard the fish are in the river, but conditions may have to warm before they start taking flys. Good luck JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I used to religously fish the American River (Sailor Bar/Nimbus) area in mid to late June for shad (pre-kids). Now that the kids are getting older I’m hoping to get back into it again. We used to use a fly similar to the Crazy Charlie Bonefish Fly – bead eyes, chartruese tail and silver/pearl foil bodies. Anyone out there using the latest and greatest that would be willing to share trade secrets? and/or any recommendations for guides in the same area? Thanks

Response:

Sure wish I could give you updated info….however, I have fond memories of my younger days when I would flyfish for Shad with my dad and brother.  At that time, the Eel River had good Shad runs and we lived just fifteen minutes from the river (if you drove quickly).  We caught lots of Shad in those days.  Today, the Eel River (like many) are mere shadows of their former selves.  I suppose there are Shad runs….but I have yet to see one myself during the last several years.  The Sacramento River is still a bright spot for Shad, I’m told.  As to flies…we used sizes from tens to fours…usually with silver bead eyes and white, pink or red hackle, silver body, red tail.  We’d tie variations, but the size seemed to be the most important and the depth at which you fished. Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I used to religously fish the American River (Sailor Bar/Nimbus) area in mid to late June for shad (pre-kids). Now that the kids are getting older I’m hoping to get back into it again. We used to use a fly similar to the Crazy Charlie Bonefish Fly – bead eyes, chartruese tail and silver/pearl foil bodies. Anyone out there using the latest and greatest that would be willing to share trade secrets? and/or any recommendations for guides in the same area? Thanks

Response:

Tue, 26 May 1998 in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly, T.Michael Reinhart I used to religously fish the American River (Sailor Bar/Nimbus) area in mid to late June for shad (pre-kids). Now that the kids are getting older I’m hoping to get back into it again. We used to use a fly similar to the Crazy Charlie Bonefish Fly – bead eyes, chartruese tail and silver/pearl foil bodies. Anyone out there using the latest and greatest that would be willing to share trade secrets? and/or any recommendations for guides in the same area?

Which species are these?  I caught a few Allis Shad (Alosa Alosa) in the River Wye, South Wales, last week (in from the Atlantic).  Very rare in the UK and therefore a protected species.  Caught them on all sorts of trout flies – nothing special.  What fighters!  Knowing that I had to release them I was worried about catching more – they just fought too hard… — Phil Jones

Response:

Question:

An interesting experience with Atlantics!  I didn’t know they were on the West Coast. The sparse Chum you mentioned, is this something new, or have you noticed it coming on.  Our populations of Chum here in Oregon have been sadly declining for several years now.  In fact there are few left.  And they are one of my favorite quarry with a fly. Burton

Well I don’t think that they’re declining.  There was a supposed poor return last year supposedly due to environmental considerations or something.  I think that they were just a little late this year.  A friend fished the same river last week and said that they were plenty of fresh chum in the lower part of the river.  I do enjoy fishing for them when they’re in a taking mood, but I have yet to uncover any sort of consistent success with them.  I would really like to find a beach with some silver chums  on it and try for them in the salt.  Haven’t been able to figure that one out yet either.

Response:

An interesting experience with Atlantics!  I didn’t know they were on the West Coast. The sparse Chum you mentioned, is this something new, or have you noticed it coming on.  Our populations of Chum here in Oregon have been sadly declining for several years now.  In fact there are few left.  And they are one of my favorite quarry with a fly. Burton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -just spent an interesting trip out on a local river where the Chum salmon were rather sparse.  I was swinging an egg sucking leech over the

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s too bad these farm escaped fish are moving in on our rivers.  It felt weird to cold heartedly slay what I’m sure is a noble fish in its own territory. Oh well, if you’re planning a trip after Atlantics, you might want to consider Vancouver ISland, B.C.   Martin There have been a few caught down here as well.  Someone was telling me that they are sterile, in which case, seems like they’ll do no harm. They hit a dry fly and fight well, they’re welcome to hang around where I fish. I have heard that due to the cramped quarters that these aqua cultured fish are kept in, that bacterial and fungal outbreaks are common on these fish. They may not be as harmless as you think if they introduce disease into the resident natural population. Food for thought. mike

Response:

It’s too bad these farm escaped fish are moving in on our rivers.  It felt weird to cold heartedly slay what I’m sure is a noble fish in its own territory. Oh well, if you’re planning a trip after Atlantics, you might want to consider Vancouver ISland, B.C.   Martin There have been a few caught down here as well.  Someone was telling me that they are sterile, in which case, seems like they’ll do no harm. They hit a dry fly and fight well, they’re welcome to hang around where I fish.

Down here ? William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

Response:

It’s too bad these farm escaped fish are moving in on our rivers.  It felt weird to cold heartedly slay what I’m sure is a noble fish in its own territory. Oh well, if you’re planning a trip after Atlantics, you might want to consider Vancouver ISland, B.C.   Martin

They are also in the Skagit River, having escaped from a pen in Puget Sound. Pat Hayden Sedro-Woolley

Response:

It’s too bad these farm escaped fish are moving in on our rivers.  It felt weird to cold heartedly slay what I’m sure is a noble fish in its own territory. Oh well, if you’re planning a trip after Atlantics, you might want to consider Vancouver ISland, B.C.   Martin

There have been a few caught down here as well.  Someone was telling me that they are sterile, in which case, seems like they’ll do no harm. They hit a dry fly and fight well, they’re welcome to hang around where I fish.

Response:

It’s too bad these farm escaped fish are moving in on our rivers.  It felt weird to cold heartedly slay what I’m sure is a noble fish in its own territory. Oh well, if you’re planning a trip after Atlantics, you might want to consider Vancouver ISland, B.C.   Martin There have been a few caught down here as well.  Someone was telling me that they are sterile, in which case, seems like they’ll do no harm. They hit a dry fly and fight well, they’re welcome to hang around where I fish.

I have heard that due to the cramped quarters that these aqua cultured fish are kept in, that bacterial and fungal outbreaks are common on these fish. They may not be as harmless as you think if they introduce disease into the resident natural population. Food for thought. mike

Response:

I just spent an interesting trip out on a local river where the Chum salmon were rather sparse.  I was swinging an egg sucking leech over the few fish I could find when I had a take.  I set the hoook and the fish took a little upstream run.  I saw the medium sized fish was a dark color and not the green and purple typical of chum.  I was thinking I’d been lucky enough to hook a coho and put some pressure on the fish.  It jumped and then moved close to me where I noticed a bronze color with blue and red spots!  An Atlantic Salmon! I put extra pressure on the fish to capture this nasty unwanted invader.  One big sweep of the two handed rod and the fish was beached.  I clobbered it over the head and it’s now in the freezer waiting for the authorities to haul it away for dissection. It’s too bad these farm escaped fish are moving in on our rivers.  It felt weird to cold heartedly slay what I’m sure is a noble fish in its own territory. Oh well, if you’re planning a trip after Atlantics, you might want to consider Vancouver ISland, B.C.   Martin

Response:

Question:

Want to fish with a combination wet and dry on my tippet. Problem is I’m not sure whether to attach my wet or dry as the first (dropper) fly or should I attach the wet to the dry fly hook bend? Although I’ll find this out, do the flies jumble up together when you false cast? Thanks, sjf muddler

Response:

muddler) writes: Want to fish with a combination wet and dry on my tippet. Problem is I’m not sure whether to attach my wet or dry as the first (dropper) fly or should I attach the wet to the dry fly hook bend? Although I’ll find this out, do the flies jumble up together when you false cast? Thanks, sjf muddler Wet to the bend of the dry, and yes they will "jumble." Try to keep

the false casts to a minimum.  Try a quartering cast upstream, and fully allowing the drift to play out all the way down stream, and follow the drift with your rod tip.  When the current applies the tension, and the rod is pointed straight down stream, turn your rod hand to point the reel upstream, raise the rod tip slowly loading the rod and fire the cast back up to your starting point. No back cast, no false cast.  Lengthen of shorten the cast by feeding more, or retrieving line from the down stream drag before the recast good luck jg

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muddler) writes: Want to fish with a combination wet and dry on my tippet. Problem is I’m not sure whether to attach my wet or dry as the first (dropper) fly or should I attach the wet to the dry fly hook bend? Although I’ll find this out, do the flies jumble up together when you false cast? Thanks, sjf muddler

The best way I’ve found to fish a dry/wet combo is to use a dry fly on the end of your leadeder, and then tie a piece of tippet material to the bend of the dry fly’s hook and attach a wet fly or nymph to the end of the second piece.  This way you can fish both flies and you won’t get as many tangles when you’re casting.  If you put the nymph or wet on first and then attach your dry fly the dry fly won’t float well and the wet won’t sink well.  So it’s dryfly first and wet/nymph tied onto that. Other methods include tying on an extra piece of tippet and only trimming one of the tags. Then tie the dry fly onto the tag and the wet/nymph to the point.  This will tangle like crazy unless the tag is kept short (around 6") and still will tangle far more than the first method I described.                                          Hope this helps,                                                Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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  I have used both methods Mr Gracia describes (wet tied to dry’s bend vs dry on a dropper) and agree that the former rig tangles less often.  On the other hand, the only fish that I have hooked on the dry were taken with the dropper rig.  I have been experimenting with multiple-fly rigs for about a year, and the solution to the tangling problem seems to lie in the casting technique — softer, more open loops, a slightly sidearm delivery, and few false casts.  I have found that one of my old glass rods works better than my graphites for this.  Perhaps some reader from the UK, where multiple fly rigs are commonly used, could enlighten us more on this method.  – Roger

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Question:

Did anyone catch a Namaycush on a fly (wet or dry)?

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: Did anyone catch a Namaycush on a fly (wet or dry)? I fish lake trout quite frequently on the fly, in the spring, just after ice-out.  I normally throw a sink-tip or sinking line.  If the laker population is largely piscivorous (fish-eating), I start near an inflowing stream where they’ll probably be gorging on baitfish in fairly shallow water.  In Switzerland, I expect bream and perch are likely forage.  In these conditions, I’ll go with some kind of a flashy streamer.  With planktivorous lake trout populations (those feeding mainly on invertebrates), some kind of an emerger pattern, matching the activity you see in the water, is usually a good bet.  I’ve never caught a _really_ big one like this, but I can assure you that a 4 kg fish on a 4 weight rod is certainly a memorable experience! In my area, flies are pretty much out of contention by mid-June, unless you’re fishing a really smal, spring-fed lake, wherein you might be able to use a fast-sinking line and get them all summer long!  Oh joy; oh bliss! Hope this helps.  Tchuss! —                                 | Dave Fluri                      |       "No me agaro ya de nada, para North Bay, Ontario, Canada      |        asi no tener nada que defender."                                 |               -Carlos Castaneda                                 |

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Question:

Ron,   Try a bright light green, cream, orange, or hot pink glo bug and sink the fly so it drifts drag free across the bottom. Also try some bright colored western spey flies and steelhead flies. There is a person named Helvie that wrote a book on steelhead flies, look through that also . —

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  On the Puyallup river in Washington State I have seen several people    I have only seen one fly fisherman on this river and wonder   why?                                          Thanks Ron

    Ron – You don’t see many trying to flyfish the Puyallup River because, by the time the steelhead arrive in the Summer or Fall, the river is floured (like coffee with cream).  Once the snow melt on the glaciers is done and we start getting ice melt, only stink baits really work well on this glacier-fed river. The glaciers have volcanic ash in them that "flour" the water.                         – Jewelee                           Puyallup, WA

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On the Puyallup river in Washington State I have seen several people using spincasting gear with spinners to catch Steelhead.  I am new to fly fishing and am hooked.  I know I will never be a worm fisherman again!!!!  I would think that a fly rod would do a awsome job on this river.  I have only seen one fly fisherman on this river and wonder why?  I am going to try this weekend and would like any suggestions on types of flies and patterns to use?  The spinners that I have seen people use have had bright orange on them.                                        Thanks Ron

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Ron,    I have not fished the Puyallup yet, but I tie a wooly bugger pattern with black marabou and flashabou, and an orange marabou that are more successful overall than the classic Skykomish Sunrise, etc. An advantage for me is that they are easy to tie and when I lose one, it’s not like losing an art treasure. email me about your success. I could send you some flies in exchange for good wading locations. good luck!    Jack – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On the Puyallup river in Washington State I have seen several people using spincasting gear with spinners to catch Steelhead.  I am new to fly fishing and am hooked.  I know I will never be a worm fisherman again!!!!  I would think that a fly rod would do a awsome job on this river.  I have only seen one fly fisherman on this river and wonder why?  I am going to try this weekend and would like any suggestions on types of flies and patterns to use?  The spinners that I have seen people use have had bright orange on them.                                        Thanks Ron

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Question:

: On this, I’ve a buddy with a vest that’s got more pockets than : a billard hall and he can’t ever, not once, find anything. Louis,         Don’t ‘dis’ my hobby.  Some folks fish, some tie flies.  I spend hours filling and emptying the pockets of my vest.  Sometimes, I find things in there that I didn’t even remember I owned!  It is a truely fascination hobby! :^) Charley : — : ** : Louis Bignami, Publisher         http://www.finefishing.com : Fine Fishing Internet Magazine   :              "largest fishing mag on the Net" : **

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: On this, I’ve a buddy with a vest that’s got more pockets than : a billard hall and he can’t ever, not once, find anything. Louis,    Don’t ‘dis’ my hobby.  Some folks fish, some tie flies.  I spend hours filling and emptying the pockets of my vest.  Sometimes, I find things in there that I didn’t even remember I owned!  It is a truely fascination hobby! :^) Charley

I can relate to that.  I got a fly vest (Colombia I think) with so many pockets that I tend to stuff in so many things and the darn thing weigh so heavy that after 3 hours of fishing my back just could not handle the vest any more.  So I did what all married would do, I let my wife wear it.  ;-)) Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : — : ** : Louis Bignami, Publisher         http://www.finefishing.com : Fine Fishing Internet Magazine   :              "largest fishing mag on the Net" : **

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In the spirit of fly tying and rod building, I would like to sew my own fisng vest (shortie).  Does anyone have experience with this?  How about a source for patterns? Thanks, Steve

I did this when I was a student trying to save money on my new hobby of FFing. I ripped the sleaves off an old shirt and sewed pockets made from pieces of old trousers onto it.  I still use it, and it works fine.  Buy some of that sew on velcro for pocket closures.  Get some large (saltwater size) snap swivels and sew them on for clips for stuff (remember to re-inforce the point where you sew them on if you don’t want them to pull through).  Good luck. . Lenny Bloksberg . .

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In the spirit of fly tying and rod building, I would like to sew my own fisng vest (shortie).  Does anyone have experience with this?  How about a source for patterns? Thanks, Steve

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Last time I wrote an article on kit garments, Frostline had a vest kit.  Since I don’t think adults should stash fish in their clothing, and I’m too stupid to remember what’s in what pocket, I’ve switched to cloth tackle creels and tote a mesh bag to stash the odd fish when I luck into one. If you insist on sewing your own you might take apart old vests.  I’m big on Velcro fasteners and a smaller number of pockets than usual.  I also fall down or in a lot, so favor a simple Stearns soft foam life vest. On this, I’ve a buddy with a vest that’s got more pockets than a billard hall and he can’t ever, not once, find anything. — ** Louis Bignami, Publisher         http://www.finefishing.com Fine Fishing Internet Magazine                "largest fishing mag on the Net" **

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi,    i recently found a "New in Box" fly rod.  I’m sure that someone on this news feed can provide some information for me (at least I hope so). It is a bamboo flyrod made by James Heddon’s Sons in Dowagiac, Michigan. Model T170, 6 1/2′ in length.  It says Heddon Deluxe on the shaft, with a number 4 – 3 on the balsa cork handle.  It is a two piece rod with the obligatory aluminum traveling tube. Anyone have an idea of when it might have been made? Anyone every heard of James Heddon’s Sons?  I’ve also got about 200 hundred of their big game lures (sure don’t look like flys to me . Are they still in existence?  I wouldn’t mind knowing when it was sold (I’m guessing in the 40’s to 50’s.), and what it’s good for. I found the rod & equipment in the garage of a recently deceased relative.  He was quite the sportsman.  This particular rod was never used (or even had a reel attached – the shipping notice is still attached), and looks like a nice one.  I now have part of the equipment needed to finally break into fly fishing (of course, what I should do is unload all of this stuff & buy my wife a new washer/dryer, but i’m not too stupid). Any information would be helpful, Thanks, Larry —          "There is NO kill like a guns kill"        CMDR. W. Driscoll, USNR Code 5585                             (202)767-3040  

Although the Heddon Company is still in operation, I expect they stopped making split cane rods many years ago.  Off-hand I would guess your rod was made in the mid 1960s.  I think the 4-3 you mention refers to suggested size of line.  The earlier HDH, HCH, IFI type of line designation was replaced by the number in the ’60s.  Shorter rods were more in fashion a bit later too. Heddon was a good solid production company.  Its rods were not high end custom products, like Garrisons, Dickersons, and Paynes. Is there an extra tip? Heddons, IMHO, should be worth $100 to $200.  There are some oddball collectors who have paid a bit more.  I believe a President model (gold fittings) once brought a thousand.  Your rod is not a president model, but it is in a desirable short size, and if condition is pristine as you say, it could bring a bit more.  With two tips, it could sell RETAIL for even $400-500 (quite optimistically speaking).  OTOH, a dealer would pay you about half of what he thought he could sell it for. Why not keep it and fish with it?  You can pay $400-500  for a fancy graphite fly rod today. I’d rather use an old Heddon. Dave

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hi,         i recently found a "New in Box" fly rod.  I’m sure that someone on this news feed can provide some information for me (at least I hope so). It is a bamboo flyrod made by James Heddon’s Sons in Dowagiac, Michigan. Model T170, 6 1/2′ in length.  It says Heddon Deluxe on the shaft, with a number 4 – 3 on the balsa cork handle.  It is a two piece rod with the obligatory aluminum traveling tube. Anyone have an idea of when it might have been made? Anyone every heard of James Heddon’s Sons?  I’ve also got about 200 hundred of their big game lures (sure don’t look like flys to me . Are they still in existence?  I wouldn’t mind knowing when it was sold (I’m guessing in the 40’s to 50’s.), and what it’s good for. I found the rod & equipment in the garage of a recently deceased relative.  He was quite the sportsman.  This particular rod was never used (or even had a reel attached – the shipping notice is still attached), and looks like a nice one.  I now have part of the equipment needed to finally break into fly fishing (of course, what I should do is unload all of this stuff & buy my wife a new washer/dryer, but i’m not too stupid). Any information would be helpful, Thanks, Larry —           "There is NO kill like a guns kill"    CMDR. W. Driscoll, USNR Code 5585                                 (202)767-3040  

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