Question:

Fished with Capt. Dave Dudley for a 4 hour trip.  Headed out of Oregon Inlet to the ocean side and about 6 miles north and a quarter mile off the beach.  Stripers were scattered but managed 5 small fish 15 to 18 lbs. Will try one more time before the water temp gets too low for a decent fish.  Reports from the Sound indicate plenty of 3-8 pounders still being taken. Fish are taking LARGE Halfandhalfs and Deceivers (at least 8 inches). Capt Dave is an excellent guide specializing in fly fishing and light tackle. Spotted a nice whale in the area and rode along side for a bit. Great to look at but stink big time. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

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time, pack the 40-weight rod and some #54 diatom imitations……backing should be substantial as well<g. Report warmed up the day for me, ice-bound in central PA.                                  Tom

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Question:

Ever had one of those days that just keeps getting better and better?  I came home from work today and had a slip to go pick up a package at the post office.  I stayed up tying flies and then someone knocked on the door.  It was the post man with another package from Wayno with raffle items.  Cool shirt and a very nice picture.  So, I go back to tying flies and at 11 am go to the post office and pick up a box from my aunt and uncle.   I get home and there is a fedex guy walking ahead of me.  He stops at the mail boxes after saying hello and I go on to my apartment.  A few moments later there is a knock on the door.  Open the door and Mr FedEx is there.  We both kinda laughed since he could have just given me the envelope outside.  I come back inside and open the box from aunt and uncle and it is one of those talking bass things.  After reading about them here I was a little skeptical so I opened the envelope (again from Wayno). Inside the envelope were a bunch of pictures of the Carolina clave.  I went through these a couple of times and had fun reading the notes on the back of them.  Then I fired ol’ Billy Bass up and got a chuckle from that.  I went through the pictures from Wayno again and think I got more chuckles from those however. So around 12:30 I decide I better get some sleep.  I have to get up at 4:30 to go to work so I lay down and almost as soon as I start falling asleep the phone rings.  I debated on answering it, but given the short time to the clave I decided I better because it might be a clavester in need of assistance.  I answer the phone and it was Bob Card whom you might remember from here a while back.  He and I have been emailing each other for a while because he was supposed to come out here on a business trip.  Didn’t hear from him for about a month so I emailed him again about a week and a half ago. Well, turns out that Bob is going to be in Bozeman this coming up weekend.  He and a friend will be arriving just in time for the clave and will be able to show up friday when they are done and then some on saturday before leaving from Butte Saturday at 6 pm.  Talk about luck!   Bob and I chatted for a bit, but now I am afraid to go to sleep because something else might happen.  I should run out and buy a lotto ticket or something.  The way today is going I will be tired, but I sure as hell am enjoying today anyway!  I even got another dozen tied for my fly box Oh, and I almost forgot to mention the neat flies that somebody sent me.  Got those when I was home for lunch last night.  I shall guard their name as closely as I guard the names of my favorite fishing spots unless they wish to name themselves and start tying up dozens more for the people who will no doubt want a set too <g   Well, maybe I should try and get some sleep. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

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 Oh, Clavemeister.    You don’t have to guard the name.  They are Frank’s Fightin’ Craws tied in a size ten and a tan color to match Montana crawdads.  With my compliments, I hope they work.                   Frank Reid

You better start tying now.  I imagine you will be receiving orders *very* soon <g  Just make sure to caution everyone that these things do bite.  Took me an hour once I unleashed them to gather them back up and contain them again. Thanks again Frank.  I can’t get over how cool these things are. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

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Oh, and I almost forgot to mention the neat flies that somebody sent me.  Got those when I was home for lunch last night.  I shall guard their name as closely as I guard the names of my favorite fishing spots unless they wish to name themselves and start tying up dozens more for the people who will no doubt want a set too <g

   Oh, Clavemeister.     You don’t have to guard the name.  They are Frank’s Fightin’ Craws tied in a size ten and a tan color to match Montana crawdads.  With my compliments, I hope they work.                    Frank Reid Before you buy.

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Question:

[an ox and a moron snipped] jeff (awash in buffoon brains) — Ken Fortenberry

Jeffey, anyone who considers Bud one the "world’s great Pilsner Lagers" is obviously a few hops short of a full brew.   Let him have his little pretensions, it can’t hurt.  Anyway, at the next clave that’ll mean there’ll be more good beer available for the rest of us. Peter

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ken…emulating jesse helms? Nah, just settling back into ROFF and politely trying to suggest that perhaps I may not suffer fools as well as some might consider "polite". — Ken Fortenberry

"Polite" Hell! That’s just stupid! Even for the self- proclaimed "asshole" to call Budweiser a good Pilsner Lager is asinine. Beer is made with barley. Butt-Wiper is made with rice. Garbage! Before you buy.

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 go to Golden.

Colorado? waldo

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No, retriever. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  go to Golden. Colorado? waldo

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    In some parts of the world, the locals still hold to a bit of etiquette after a day of fly fishing.  I and a few of my Air Force friends had gone up to a tributary of the famous Tay in Scotland for a bit of atlantic salmon fishing.  The gillies took my partners upstream and let me off at a large pool to fish from a float tube.  Unfortunately, my partners had all the food an drink with them.  After 8 hours, I floated down to the stone gillie hut to rest and recupe.     When I arrived, I asked if there was anything to drink, I was dehydrated and starved.  One of the gillies had found two six packs of bud lite in cans floating in the river (I suspect left unsecured to cool by my friends). After being offered one, I was asked how I liked it.  Well, 12 oz. had gone down in about 30 seconds, but I honestly told the gillie that I hadn’t traveled all the way to England to drink crap American beer.     I was immediately reminded that "yurra naught in Angland lauddie!"  I was then asked if I wanted anything to chase the beer down with.  After nodding a parched acquiescence,  I was poured 4 (very widely spread) fingers of the local single malt in a tumbler from the pitcher on the table.  This "4" fingers was never allow to drop below 2 fingers and was immediately accompanied by extra sandwich halves that these fine gentlemen had left over in their rucks and accompanied by a couple of fine hours of debate on the state of flyfishing around the world from a working man’s level.  (As opposed to their standard customers in their Bently’s wearing their plus-fours).     The moral is, its not what you drink after you’ve done that day on the water, but who you spend that gentle time after with.  To quote one of these streamside philosophers:  "Thems wit da passion for a keen day of angling will always find a kindred soul on these waters."     (I hooked but caught no salmon that day.  In Scotland, the local tradition is if you catch salmon, you give the ghillie a bottle of scotch.)      In five months, I’ll retire after 22 years, 9 months in the USAF as a Master Sergeant.  I will miss it.  I’ve traveled the world and caught fish on a fly rod that to this day I’ve no clue what they were called.  But fishing is the great equalizer and fly fishing is the most universal of techniques.  I’ll especially treasure the people I’ve met, at times separated by the void of no common language but rejoined by the common love of our sport.  The old Korean gentleman with whom I sat on the rocks by the ocean as we converted my crawfish pattern into a passable shrimp and proceded to catch untold numbers of baracuda.  The German teenager who took me down to his "private" stream as we caught 10 in browns in a 5 foot wide creek.  The Phillipine town councilman with whom I spent countless hours pulling a tilapia like fish out of a swamp using a beetle fly.  The fine people from Mustad (like Ole Bjerke) that I met at the Partridge of Redditich Days in England, allowing me the opportunity to sit down to lunch across the table from Poul Jorgensen and his beautiful bride.  And others like Magnus Angus of Fly Fisherman and Fly Tyer magazine, the most beautiful flyfishing magazine in the world.     The famous and the common, the coarse and game angler, we all look forward to the gentle time after a day on the water, to heft one with "thems wit da passion."                                                             Frank Reid

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ken…emulating jesse helms? Nah, just settling back into ROFF and politely trying to suggest that perhaps I may not suffer fools as well as some might consider "polite". "Polite" Hell! That’s just stupid! Even for the self- proclaimed "asshole" to call Budweiser a good Pilsner Lager is asinine. Beer is made with barley. Butt-Wiper is made with rice. Garbage!

Uh oh. This thread has a Chernoble feel to it… /daytripper (headin’ for the bunker and taking my ales with!)

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Snip a fine story, every bit as refreshing as an ice-cold Coors after a day Good one Frank from another retired Frank.  My big regret is that I didn’t take up flyfishing until after I retired from the AF,  given all the vacation spots the AF payed me to visit.  I don’t want to think about the opportunities missed, blown away forever because my interests were elsewhere. Ah, but no real regrets either because that was 20 of the best years of my life…and the subsequent 30 years ain’t been bad either.  If you’re new to ROFF, welcome, if a long time lurker, welcome from the rest of us semi-lurkers. You must have some interesting stories to relate to us, please do, as I fear the shack-nasties have set in *big time* in this group. Besides, it’s 5 degrees outside my door right now, my fishin’ gear is gathering dust in the corner, and it seems like forever till ice-out. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED    The famous and the common, the coarse and game angler, we all look forward to the gentle time after a day on the water, to heft one with "thems wit da passion."                                                            Frank Reid

——

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The Mona Lisa is a classic example of a portrait done well. One can say that portraits are not my cup of tea and that I’m not particularly fond of portrait painting. One cannot say that the Mona Lisa is a bad portrait. Catch my drift ? — Ken Fortenberry- known to drink Budweiser after FLYFISHING

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budweiser is a classic example of a beer done bad… One can (easily) say that budweiser (bad beer) is not my cup of tea… i’m not particularly fond of budweiser… One can easily say budweiser is a bad beer… Catch my drift? jeff – known to drink anything other than budweiser before and after         flyfishing – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Mona Lisa is a classic example of a portrait done well. One can say that portraits are not my cup of tea and that I’m not particularly fond of portrait painting. One cannot say that the Mona Lisa is a bad portrait. Catch my drift ? — Ken Fortenberry- known to drink Budweiser after FLYFISHING

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The Mona Lisa is a classic example of a portrait done well. One can say that portraits are not my cup of tea and that I’m not particularly fond of portrait painting. One cannot say that the Mona Lisa is a bad portrait. Catch my drift ? yeah, you been drinkin’ buds with asadi waldo

TWEEEEEET! There’s a flag on the play! You didn’t use any OT words!! — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com

Ooops! OK – you snuck by on a technicality. We’ll pick up the flag ;^)

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budweiser is a classic example of a beer done bad…

Not true, my ignorant redneck friend. Budweiser is, as a matter of fact, one of the world’s best Pilsner Lagers. It’s a little less hoppy than its eponymous predecessor from Czechoslovakia, but that’s by design. The hops are indeed real hops, not hop extract, and Budweiser is lagered for at least 32 days. One can easily say budweiser is a bad beer…

If one wishes to expose oneself as a brainwashed buffoon who doesn’t know shit from shinola about beer. — Ken Fortenberry

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Not true, my ignorant redneck friend. Budweiser is, as a matter of fact, one of the world’s best Pilsner Lagers.

there’s an oxymoron bulging in that sentence, my effete asshole pal…but you probably chose the wrong one… It’s a little less hoppy than its eponymous predecessor from Czechoslovakia, but that’s by design. The hops are indeed real hops, not hop extract, and Budweiser is lagered for at least 32 days.

nouveaux beer? One can easily say budweiser is a bad beer… If one wishes to expose oneself as a brainwashed buffoon who doesn’t know shit from shinola about beer.

"shit from shinola"…now there’s a real beer drinker’s comment!! jeff (awash in buffoon brains) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Ken Fortenberry

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"Polite" Hell! That’s just stupid! Even for the self- proclaimed "asshole" to call Budweiser a good Pilsner Lager is asinine. Beer is made with barley. Butt-Wiper is made with rice. Garbage!

Go fish. — Ken Fortenberry

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Mona Lisa is a classic example of a portrait done well. One can say that portraits are not my cup of tea and that I’m not particularly fond of portrait painting. One cannot say that the Mona Lisa is a bad portrait. Catch my drift ? yeah, you been drinkin’ buds with asadi waldo TWEEEEEET! There’s a flag on the play! You didn’t use any OT words!! — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Ooops! OK – you snuck by on a technicality. We’ll pick up the flag ;^)

ok, i’ve been flagged… how ’bout.. thar once was a gal, mona lisa from the lovely town of pisa all her suitors in town always wore a frown cuz they couldn’t get a pisa lisa i know…go sit on the bench. waldo, speakin of football… go jags, go bucs!

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ken…emulating jesse helms? jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeffey, anyone who considers Bud one the "world’s great Pilsner Lagers" is obviously a few hops short of a full brew. Yeah, yeah. Do your homework. When you’ve read enough about beer to be in the "almost has a clue" category you will realize that Budweiser is in fact one of the world’s finest Pilsner Lagers. Golden, if you actually do deign to read a book on the subject instead of pontificating like an ignoramus, go to Golden. — Ken Fortenberry

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ken…emulating jesse helms?

Nah, just settling back into ROFF and politely trying to suggest that perhaps I may not suffer fools as well as some might consider "polite". — Ken Fortenberry

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The Mona Lisa is a classic example of a portrait done well. One can say that portraits are not my cup of tea and that I’m not particularly fond of portrait painting. One cannot say that the Mona Lisa is a bad portrait. Catch my drift ?

That Budweiser smells like 450 year old French paint and is impossible to drink, even after FLYFISHING….? R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Ken Fortenberry- known to drink Budweiser after FLYFISHING

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The Mona Lisa is a classic example of a portrait done well. One can say that portraits are not my cup of tea and that I’m not particularly fond of portrait painting. One cannot say that the Mona Lisa is a bad portrait. Catch my drift ?

yeah, you been drinkin’ buds with asadi waldo — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com http://auctions.yahoo.com/booth/ezflyfish_com Used, Rare, & Out-of-Print Books: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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Damn Jeff, you gonna let him call you a "hoppy eponymous ignorant redneck brainwashed buffoon who expose oneself and doesn’t know shit from shinola." Waldo

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Jeffey, anyone who considers Bud one the "world’s great Pilsner Lagers" is obviously a few hops short of a full brew.  

Yeah, yeah. Do your homework. When you’ve read enough about beer to be in the "almost has a clue" category you will realize that Budweiser is in fact one of the world’s finest Pilsner Lagers. Golden, if you actually do deign to read a book on the subject instead of pontificating like an ignoramus, go to Golden. — Ken Fortenberry

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why should they…budweiser’s already done it! (make a bad beer, that is…for the hoppy eponymous among us)… jeff

I know, I know. AB does make bad beer. I myself have tasted it. It’s drek. It comes from satellite breweries in Florida and Virginia. What can I tell ya. Buy your Bud from St. Louis and check the date. — Ken Fortenberry

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…does that mean you’ll be bringin the sleemans? jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [an ox and a moron snipped] jeff (awash in buffoon brains) — Ken Fortenberry Jeffey, anyone who considers Bud one the "world’s great Pilsner Lagers" is obviously a few hops short of a full brew.   Let him have his little pretensions, it can’t hurt.  Anyway, at the next clave that’ll mean there’ll be more good beer available for the rest of us. Peter

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jeff (awash in buffoon brains)

Exactly. Brainwashed, bamfoozled and full of yuppie pretense. Anything OTHER must be GOOD. Jump on the mindless bandwagon, follow the trend. I like ales. In the fall I’ll drink a wheat beer. I enjoy a good many good beers from Belgium, Germany and the Czech Republic. None of which will ever make Budweiser a bad beer. — Ken Fortenberry

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I like ales. In the fall I’ll drink a wheat beer. I enjoy a good many good beers from Belgium, Germany and the Czech Republic. None of which will ever make Budweiser a bad beer.

to quote a self-proclaimed sage: "EXACTLY"!!  why should they…budweiser’s already done it! (make a bad beer, that is…for the hoppy eponymous among us)… jeff

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um…no…but it is kinda cute, ain’t it?  i mean, when i go to the next monthly meeting of the HEIRBB (herby’s, for the acronymically challenged), i’d really be scorned if i didn’t recognize the shinola… jeff (in stecore veritas) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Damn Jeff, you gonna let him call you a "hoppy eponymous ignorant redneck brainwashed buffoon who expose oneself and doesn’t know shit from shinola." Waldo

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Question:

(words of great insight snipped) A toast to you, Mike, as I enjoy your literary skills over a scotch on a quiet evening in Pennsylvania.  Only on roff. Mark faulkner

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Here, here! Nice work, Mike. Steve Zimmerman Go Cougars!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [excellent prose snipped]

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What urgeth then a man of sense, to seek the soothing solace of a rippling stream, with complex and expensive tools ? ‘Tis surely not the gain involved, for a bag of comely fish may just as well be gleaned with simple gear, likewise by abject fools. Perhaps the contemplation then ? the peace and quiet, and sometimes awesome, even frightening, and  inspiring solitude ? the sight of glorious nature, richly clad in many shades of riotous and verdant colour, may even ban the deepest blackest mood. The stream a

Question:

If I could develop a robotic trout that would act very much like a real trout and I put these things in pond and stream and allowed you to cast for them, would you consider quitting fishing for the living version altogether ? — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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If I could develop a robotic trout that would act very much like a real trout and I put these things in pond and stream and allowed you to cast for them, would you consider quitting fishing for the living version altogether ?

Would it be edible ? — Ken Fortenberry

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If I could develop a robotic trout that would act very much like a real trout and I put these things in pond and stream and allowed you to cast for them, would you consider quitting fishing for the living version altogether

    Certainly C&R, but I just got my smoker!!!  Fish is brain food!! JE

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If I could develop a robotic trout that would act very much like a real trout and I put these things in pond and stream and allowed you to cast for them, would you consider quitting fishing for the living version altogether ? — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

depends big guy….your last foray into robotics had quite a few bugs waldo

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If I could develop a robotic trout that would act very much like a real trout and I put these things in pond and stream and allowed you to cast for them, would you consider quitting fishing for the living version altogether ? Tim Walker

Well Moe Timwalker, Sooner or later I figured you’d have to ask that question or a variant thereof. If we could develop virtual reality that plugged directly into our brains and appeared indistinguishable from "reality" would you give up living "normally"? Would you believe such a thing were possible eventually? Or would you just commit suicide if such a thing were ever developed?  Do you believe in the existence of a spirit inside living (or even inanimate) things? If we could develop a computer that was powerful enough to exceed the human brain in all aspects, would it have a soul?  Do we have souls? You are asking a question that is too deep for anyone to reply in a satisfactory manner on a newsgroup.  The responses will just end up being fodder in a feeding frenzy like so much food pellets being thrown into a pond full of hatchery trout(*).   Mu Young Lee         Ann Arbor, MI   USA (*)I have seen this at Kananaskis Lodge in Alberta.  The old guy with the feed pail from the gift shop walks out to the articifial pond.  Before he even chucks his first handful of fish chow, all the rainbow trout begin violently jockeying for position.

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If I could develop a robotic trout that would act very much like a real trout and I put these things in pond and stream and allowed you to cast for them, would you consider quitting fishing for the living version altogether ?

If I could develop a robotic version of your wife, that would act very much like your real wife, but that would never nag you about the time you spend fishing, would you ever go home? — something bogus to avoid spam)

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If grasshoppers had machine-guns, would the birds fuck with them? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I could develop a robotic trout that would act very much like a real trout and I put these things in pond and stream and allowed you to cast for them, would you consider quitting fishing for the living version altogether ? — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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anyone truly interested in this sort of question would do well to read Phillip K. Dick’s brillant sci-fi novel "Do Android’s Dream of Electric Sheep", the book that "Blade Runner" was based upon. But that movie struck me as warm pablum after the biting ambiguity of PK Dick. Ralphbot (who may or may not have a soul) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I could develop a robotic trout that would act very much like a real trout and I put these things in pond and stream and allowed you to cast for them, would you consider quitting fishing for the living version altogether ? — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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If I could develop a robotic trout that would act very much like a real trout and I put these things in pond and stream and allowed you to cast for them, would you consider quitting fishing for the living version altogether

That’s all we need now,a Stepford trout. Ah, can we fish them with Walt’s

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If I could develop a robotic trout that would act very much like a real trout and I put these things in pond and stream and allowed you to cast for them, would you consider quitting fishing for the living version altogether ?

Would there be little robotic birds and bugs and stuff? And maybe a robotic Ranger too? — Charlie…

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If I could develop a robotic trout that would act very much like a real trout and I put these things in pond and stream and allowed you to cast for them, would you consider quitting fishing for the living version altogether

Only if it was mandatory catch and release.  A robotic trout is too valuable to catch only once.  :-)      - Ken — "To listen to some devout people, one would imagine that God never laughs."         – Ghose Aurobindo

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Ken Janik wrote If I could develop a robotic trout that would act very much like a real trout and I put these things in pond and stream and allowed you to cast for them, would you consider quitting fishing for the living version altogether Only if it was mandatory catch and release.  A robotic trout is too valuable to catch only once.  :-)

Unfortunately, if T-bone is to be believed, the C&R’d robots wouldn’t give as good a fight on subsequent catchings because after all, they’re "very much like a real trout" and as we all know from sir Bone’s tracts, no trout once released is ever worth being caught again. But no, in answer to the original question.  I’d rather fish for the real thing. —                                                       -dnc-

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I could develop a robotic trout that would act very much like a real trout and I put these things in pond and stream and allowed you to cast for them, would you consider quitting fishing for the living version altogether ? Tim Walker Well Moe Timwalker, Sooner or later I figured you’d have to ask that question or a variant thereof. If we could develop virtual reality that plugged directly into our brains and appeared indistinguishable from "reality" would you give up living "normally"? Would you believe such a thing were possible eventually? Or would you just commit suicide if such a thing were ever developed?  Do you believe in the existence of a spirit inside living (or even inanimate) things? If we could develop a computer that was powerful enough to exceed the human brain in all aspects, would it have a soul?  Do we have souls? You are asking a question that is too deep for anyone to reply in a satisfactory manner on a newsgroup.  The responses will just end up being fodder in a feeding frenzy like so much food pellets being thrown into a pond full of hatchery trout(*).   Mu Young Lee         Ann Arbor, MI   USA

  I think you put a bit too much paint on that motionless rock Mu. The question didn’t seem to require a view into existence. More like a yes, no, or a maybe or what kind of chip… you know, mundane shit. (*)I have seen this at Kananaskis Lodge in Alberta.  The old guy with the feed pail from the gift shop walks out to the articifial pond.  Before he even chucks his first handful of fish chow, all the rainbow trout begin violently jockeying for position.

I have seen grown men reduced to fisticuffs on The Fork over a rising fish. I guess Pavlovian responses are in the eyes of the beholder, I know a few fish that are still laughing thief ventrals off at me. Hm

Response:

If I could develop a robotic trout that would act very much like a real trout and I put these things in pond and stream and allowed you to cast for them, would you consider quitting fishing for the living version altogether ? Tim Walker

        (snip)         the profundity of that question is breathtaking.  mu young is right.  i don’t know if one can formulate a full response in the newsgroup forum.  the image goes to the very heart of why we fish.  it makes jon’s signature (we are fishermen, we kill fish, or something like that) come into focus.  i say to all of you that the vast majority of us would answer tim’s question:  "no"; because a very important part of fishing is the act of "taking", either by subduing and releasing, or killing, the fish.  a bot fish could not be conquered, or killed.  it would not feel alive in our hands.  we would not be gods for a moment, which i think is at the heart of why we fish.         just a start. wayno

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I could develop a robotic trout that would act very much like a real trout and I put these things in pond and stream and allowed you to cast for them, would you consider quitting fishing for the living version altogether ? Tim Walker    (snip)    the profundity of that question is breathtaking.  mu young is right.  i don’t know if one can formulate a full response in the newsgroup forum.  the image goes to the very heart of why we fish.  it makes jon’s signature (we are fishermen, we kill fish, or something like that) come into focus.  i say to all of you that the vast majority of us would answer tim’s question:  "no"; because a very important part of fishing is the act of "taking", either by subduing and releasing, or killing, the fish.  a bot fish could not be conquered, or killed.  it would not feel alive in our hands.  we would not be gods for a moment, which i think is at the heart of why we fish.    just a start. wayno

No,  it would remove  feel from the touch, the heart from the act, the I from me.  It would be a handful of dirt in a domain of gold, of no value,no place  a continuation of a start HM

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Hey T-Bone,      If you made some robotic animals, maybe some of us blood thirsty people could shoot fake animals and tie flies with their wires to catch these magical robotic fish.  Then we could sit down to a wonderful feast of circuits, metal, and vegetables with our wonderful android wives.  Yeah, that is a great idea.  Try living in the real world with the rest of us for awhile, you dimwit.  Thanks for your time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I could develop a robotic trout that would act very much like a real trout and I put these things in pond and stream and allowed you to cast for them, would you consider quitting fishing for the living version altogether ? — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

  – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (snip) the profundity of that question is breathtaking.  mu young is right.  i don’t know if one can formulate a full response in the newsgroup forum.  the image goes to the very heart of why we fish.  it makes jon’s signature (we are fishermen, we kill fish, or something like that) come into focus.  i say to all of you that the vast majority of us would answer tim’s question:  "no"; because a very important part of fishing is the act of "taking", either by subduing and releasing, or killing, the fish.  a bot fish could not be conquered, or killed.  it would not feel alive in our hands.  we would not be gods for a moment, which i think is at the heart of why we fish. just a start. wayno

Amen! Wayne Tim Apple " Always one step closer to going Postal! "

Response:

Hey T-Bone,     If you made some robotic animals, maybe some of us blood thirsty people could shoot fake animals and tie flies with their wires to catch these magical robotic fish.  Then we could sit down to a wonderful feast of circuits, metal, and vegetables with our wonderful android wives.  Yeah, that is a great idea.  Try living in the real world with the rest of us for awhile, you dimwit.  Thanks for your time.

While I appreciate the thoughtful and kind comments Rick… I’m dead serious.  We are currently soliciting venture capital for the research.  I currently have friends at the Trident submarine research center evaluating the economivc feasibility of the project.  As it stands now, we will need to get the production cost of each fishbot under about ~$2500 to make this venture profitable, and I am optimistic that we can do that.  I am really hoping that some of the people in the semiconducter and firmware businesses here will become partners once we have established their worthiness.  Ken Janik is fairly high on our candidacy list. With my ‘alive’ post I was looking for a little marketing input from this group of flyfishermen, who I trust will tell me the truth.  That is, would the engage in the sport at all.  Does the quarry have to be alive to make flyfishing interesting ?. This is proprietary, discussion, please leave it here (I trust you guys). I have developed a game…and posted the detailed rules over 8 years ago.  I will summarize it here for you.  I intend to name the game FLOG, for starters.  It will be conducted on a FLOG course and consist of a variety of challenging lies to test your flyfishing prowess.  As you approach a hole, be it a spring creek, pond, rapid or what have you, a small reset button is pressed and the fishbots are reset to an initial ‘unspooked’ state.  This will ensure parity on the course, for each player. Each hole will have a ‘par’ that is, the number of casts allowed. When you catch a fish, you stop and count your strokes and weigh the fish.  The winner is a combination of low strokes and pounds of fish released. We had originally intended to use living animals for this game, but they are too unpredictable to make it fair and we are afraid that this will cause us problems with animal rights groups in the future. Do you have any suggestions that might help us make this work ? Your pal, — TimW President Pisces Simulation Systems

Response:

(unfair attack on a great american entrepernuer snipped) While I appreciate the thoughtful and kind comments Rick… I’m dead serious.  We are currently soliciting venture capital for the research.  I currently have friends at the Trident submarine research center evaluating the economivc feasibility of the project.  As it stands now, we will need to get the production cost of each fishbot under about ~$2500 to make this venture profitable, and I am optimistic that we can do that.  I am really hoping that some of the people in the semiconducter and firmware businesses here will become partners once we have established their worthiness.  Ken Janik is fairly high on our candidacy list.

        great choice, tim.  dr. janik is a legendary botboy. With my ‘alive’ post I was looking for a little marketing input from this group of flyfishermen, who I trust will tell me the truth.  That is, would the engage in the sport at all.  Does the quarry have to be alive to make flyfishing interesting ?. This is proprietary, discussion, please leave it here (I trust you guys).

        (fascinating proposal snipped)         we here at little wayno’s guide service (we never close) would certainly appreciate the opportunity to lend the considerable weight of our own capital resources to the exciting effort you at pisces systems have inaugurated.  it would be our hope that we might be considered as a franchise holder for the smokey mtn natl park.  while the exact amount of the investment must await approval by our board of directors, i think it is safe to predict a number sufficient to purchase the state of rhode island. for the firm wayno

Response:

If I could develop a robotic version of your wife, that would act very much like your real wife, but that would never nag you about the time you spend fishing, would you ever go home?

    Is she programmable? JE – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

depends big guy….your last foray into robotics had quite a few bugs

Yeah, but it looks like we’ve worked most of them out. And unlike the mythical story of (?) who escalated gift giving each time, I will stop now and simply say thank you for the early colorado mining images. They now grace my office wall. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

I’m dead serious.  We are currently soliciting venture capital for the research.  I currently have friends at the Trident submarine research center evaluating the economivc feasibility of the project.  As it stands now, we will need to get the production cost of each fishbot under about ~$2500 to make this venture profitable, and I am optimistic that we can do that.  I am

 <snip Please convince your backers to put up some money for development of fembot fishing wives. Mu Young Lee, feeling like 6 Million Dollars on a great winter day.

Response:

Hey T-Bone,     If you made some robotic animals, maybe some of us blood thirsty I’m dead serious.  We are currently soliciting venture capital for the research.  I currently have friends at the Trident submarine research center evaluating the economivc feasibility of the project.  As it stands now, we will need to get the production cost of each fishbot under about ~$2500 to make this venture profitable, and I am optimistic that we can do that.  I am really hoping that some of the people in the semiconducter and firmware businesses here will become partners once we have established their worthiness.  Ken Janik is fairly high on our candidacy list.

I’m afraid I will have to decline.  Currently I’m working on a robotic PETA-droid.  It will post neverending articles to usenet to allow all lowlife hunters, fishermen, and meat-eaters to realize the horrible pain and torture they inflict on the poor innocent little creatures. Don’t tell anyone, but the code name is Tiresome-BOring Neverending Excrement. SSSHH, for your eyes only.      - Ken — "To listen to some devout people, one would imagine that God never laughs."         – Ghose Aurobindo

Response:

Do you have any suggestions that might help us make this work ? Your pal, — TimW President Pisces Simulation Systems

Stay at home and play Trophy Rivers on your damn box. Now would I be ashamed to poach a few? May be with a hunting rifle from above the pool. Always willing to help out and change the odds. You ought to here about the gophers that I’m sending to the clave. — Doug Knight                                     metalfab<atpacbell.net Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

Response:

Question:

Hi John, I have been using poppers made by the Accardo Tackle Co., 3708 Conrad Drive, Baton Rouge, LA 70805 for some time. They seem to hold up very well as long as no tooth critter hits it. I have no connection with this company. Jack in Tn.

Response:

I’m amazed nobody responded with the following name (remember it well!): Bob’s Lucky Day Lures in Dumfries, Virginia. This guy typically advertises in one (or more) of the major FF periodicals, and his poppers are BOMBPROOF. In fact, he guarantees them for at least 100 landed fish. He sells a wide range of sizes and styles. The bodies are made of high-quality, closed-cell yellow foam on Daichi hooks. You can literally drive over one of these with your car and they won’t come apart! Email me if you can’t find his ad or number and I’ll dig it up. Scott Wilkinson

Response:

There was a place a few years ago at least out in Colorado I think called "The Bass Shop" or "The Bass Bug" or something like that and it sold a good array of bugs, poppers and etc. Hopefully someone else will update as to the right name and if they are still in business. Nice place.

That would be The Bass Pond – in Denver. I don’t have their phone number or address but I’m sure they’re still in business. They carry quality warm water fly fishing gear.

Response:

We sell Mustad 33903 kink shank popper hooks in sizes 1 to size 14–$5.95 per box of 100 and size 1/0 is $6.35 per box of 100.  We also sell assortment packages we put together ourselves.  This way our customers can get several different sizes without breaking the bank or buying too many of one hook size–they can also tell, pretty quickly, which sizes they will need to eventually purchase in larger quantities. Each 33903 assortment  package is $7.25.  The large sized hook assortment includes 20 each of sizes 1/0, 1, 2, 4, & 6.  The medium sized hook assortment includes 20 each of sizes 2, 4, 6, 8, & 10.  The small sized hook assortment includes 20 each of sizes 6, 8, 10, 12, & 14. We have practically stopped using the foam poppers altogether and have switched to poppers we make using Softex and Flexo tubing.  They are practically indestructible, can be tied in huge variety of sizes and shapes (we also make sliders), and can be colored very effectively with permanent markers.  Because of the versatility of the materials and ability to custom tailor the design, we’ve found them to be hugely productive–even more so than the foam poppers. We sell AirHead (Flexo) Poppers in our mail order catalog, as well as the Flexo tubing and Softex.  We have an introductory package which includes a jar of Softex and 5 yards of assorted sizes of Flexo tubing available for $16.95.  We have a three page brochure and instruction sheet on working with Softex and Flexo we’d be happy to send anyone who is interested. For a free copy of our mail order catalog or information on Softex/Flexo, send us email or call us toll-free at 1-888-200-0364. Lauren Hart Brazos FlyFishers   http://www.brazosflyfishers.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Me too!  I’d really like to find a source of small poppers (size 16 hook preferred, size 14 acceptable), made ON A POPPER HOOK (one or two humps in hook shank to keep body from rotating), cork or plastic body, and with none of those silly, annoying rubber band legs that keep fish from touching "anything sharp" (like the hook).  I haven’t even seen the proper hooks to make my own!  I used to be able to purchase commercially exactly what I’ve described. I am so sick and tired of cheap poppers that don’t float and/or fall apart after catching a few fish. Does A N Y B O D Y know of a catalog or web site with a good selection of quality poppers? I’ve read in articles about these new foam poppers that float well and are durable. They are on the high end, 3 or 4 bucks a piece, but I’d love to try some…can’t find them anywhere. —  Custom Internet Applications  John Scherrer/Marketing Specialist  Voice 814-756-4682 Fax 814-756-3416  http://www.cianow.com  "Creating websites that work!"

Response:

Try www.fishypete.com the prices there are a lot lower than most places.

Response:

I am so sick and tired of cheap poppers that don’t float and/or fall apart after catching a few fish. Does A N Y B O D Y know of a catalog or web site with a good selection of quality poppers? I’ve read in articles about these new foam poppers that float well and are durable. They are on the high end, 3 or 4 bucks a piece, but I’d love to try some…can’t find them anywhere. —  Custom Internet Applications  John Scherrer/Marketing Specialist  Voice 814-756-4682 Fax 814-756-3416  http://www.cianow.com  "Creating websites that work!"

Response:

I am so sick and tired of cheap poppers that don’t float and/or fall apart after catching a few fish. Does A N Y B O D Y know of a catalog or web site with a good selection of quality poppers? I’ve read in articles about these new foam poppers that float well and are durable. They are on the high end, 3 or 4 bucks a piece, but I’d love to try some…can’t find them anywhere.

        There was a place a few years ago at least out in Colorado I think called "The Bass Shop" or "The Bass Bug" or something like that and it sold a good array of bugs, poppers and etc. Hopefully someone else will update as to the right name and if they are still in business. Nice place. Also, you might want to look at getting in touch with the Arbogast Co. out of Ohio I think. They now own the "Hank Roberts" line of stuff, and I’ve always been fairly happy with their bugs, but I don’t think they make foam stuff like you are talking about. I’ve used the foam, but have not really found any bugs that have the right combo of weight, lack of wind resistance, high flotation and etc. for some reason. Maybe have not tried enough? So I use lots of the "Sneaky Pete’s" which are made by ??? (Hank Roberts Co.?) But, one thing I tried a few years ago after reading an article in an old FF mag was to make my own foam poppers. You buy the bass bug hook and then a pair of those stupid semi-hard foam "flip-flops" for your feet at your local K-Mart in whatever color that strikes your fancy. You then cut out the popper body from the sole foam in whatever size/shape you want, cut a slit in the bottom which fits over the hook and Crazy Glue it on. Wind on some hackle in back and maybe a tail or two and that’s it. No need for fancy tying skills. Amazingly, they worked great for me. Just the right combo of weight, high flotation, castability and etc. The only problem I had was with cutting a decent body, or at least one that looked decent to me, but then again as my mother put it years ago when trying to teach me cursive writing, my fine-motor skills need work.         Good luck. tgb

Response:

Me too!  I’d really like to find a source of small poppers (size 16 hook preferred, size 14 acceptable), made ON A POPPER HOOK (one or two humps in hook shank to keep body from rotating), cork or plastic body, and with none of those silly, annoying rubber band legs that keep fish from touching "anything sharp" (like the hook).  I haven’t even seen the proper hooks to make my own!  I used to be able to purchase commercially exactly what I’ve described. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am so sick and tired of cheap poppers that don’t float and/or fall apart after catching a few fish. Does A N Y B O D Y know of a catalog or web site with a good selection of quality poppers? I’ve read in articles about these new foam poppers that float well and are durable. They are on the high end, 3 or 4 bucks a piece, but I’d love to try some…can’t find them anywhere. —  Custom Internet Applications  John Scherrer/Marketing Specialist  Voice 814-756-4682 Fax 814-756-3416  http://www.cianow.com  "Creating websites that work!"

Response:

I am so sick and tired of cheap poppers that don’t float and/or fall apart after catching a few fish. Does A N Y B O D Y know of a catalog or web site with a good selection of quality poppers? I’ve read in articles about these new foam poppers that float well and are durable. They are on the high end, 3 or 4 bucks a piece, but I’d love to try some…can’t find them anywhere. — Custom Internet Applications John Scherrer/Marketing Specialist Voice 814-756-4682 Fax 814-756-3416 http://www.cianow.com "Creating websites that work!"

Hi John, We carry the Umpqua hard bodied poppers that come in Red/white or Frog that have a good Tiemco hook in them for $3.50 and the Spirit River foam poppers that come in Yellow, Black or Green with a quality hook at $2.95. We also carry the Ganes poppers in lots of sizes and colors that are made in the USA with Mustad hooks at about $2.49. I recommend using 0x to 2x tippet on these poppers so you don’t loose them or that giant bass. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Generally, unless you are doing  a lot of work for the toothier critters like pike and muskie (or unless you are in the salt…) I think the Gaines products are very adequate for the price.  I fish them in fairly small sizes (6-10) for smallmouth and usually lose the paint job far before I get a disconnect between the body and the hook, and they become useless.  Each one seeoms to be good for about 30-40 bass or 50 direct  hits on boulders, whichever comes first.  I also suspect (but do not know for certain..) that the Gaines poppers are also sold under Cortland’s name, as well as several others.  They are US made in northern Potter county, PA by squadrons of little old ladies with tattoos on their arms and Marsh-Wheelings (the world’s only cigar that the more you smoke it, the longer it gets…) clamped in their teeth..:).  They are good poppers.  

Response:

Me too!  I’d really like to find a source of small poppers (size 16 hook preferred, size 14 acceptable), made ON A POPPER HOOK (one or two humps in hook shank to keep body from rotating), cork or plastic body, and with none of those silly, annoying rubber band legs that keep fish from touching "anything sharp" (like the hook).  I haven’t even seen the proper hooks to

make my own!  I used to

be able to purchase commercially exactly what I’ve described.

I just started tying my own bass poppers and flies using both hard bodies and deer hair.  I’ve been tying my own trout flies for a long time, but bass bug making is a whole new world – maybe in another 10 years I’ll get good at it!  :-)     You can get the hooks you mentioned from the Hook & Hackle Company. ‘Sorry, I’m at work and don’t have their catalog in front of me, but they are a big outfit and shouldn’t be hard to find….  They also carry pre-formed cork bodies, paint, and everything else you need to get started.  The hard (cork) bodied poppers are not difficult to tie, and would be a good place to start.  Try getting Dick Stewart’s book, which is entitled something like _Tying Bass Flies_.  The title may be off, but it’s the best book on the subject I have found.  Spinning and working with deer hair is a bit difficult to master, but if you already tie deer hair bodies trout flies, (like Muddler Minnows, Adams Irresistibles, etc.), you’ll have a head start.  Actually, these patterns also make good bass flies when tied in really large sizes. I am so sick and tired of cheap poppers that don’t float and/or fall apart after catching a few fish. Does A N Y B O D Y know of a catalog or web site with a good selection of quality poppers? I’ve read in articles about these new foam poppers that float well and are durable. They are on the high end, 3 or 4 bucks a piece, but I’d love to try some…can’t find them anywhere. —  Custom Internet Applications  John Scherrer/Marketing Specialist  Voice 814-756-4682 Fax 814-756-3416  http://www.cianow.com  "Creating websites that work!"

  ‘Hope this helps.   Cheers, and tight lines,   -Mark

Response:

Question:

Hello all!         I was hoping to try out Piru Creek sometime in September. I have never fished it and have no idea what it is like, but as it is only a few hours from my home, I thought it would be neat to try. Has anybody out there fished this creek? If so, can you give me some tips on what parts of the creek are most productive and what patterns and sizes to use? Any help would be greatly appreciated.                                 Thanks,                                         Jeff

Response:

Jeff: I had a similar question a few months back when visiting LA, and got good this post.  But try him first.  He was enthusiastic about the small wild rainbows in Piru Creek.  Only trouble was, Don forgot to warn me about the safety aspects — the creek is only an hour from LA, and I never got to it — got chased off by a gang with a shotgun.  All part of the great adventure of flyfishing… Proceed with caution, ask Don’s advice, and good luck. Regards, George

Response:

Jeff: I had a similar question a few months back when visiting LA, and got good this post.  But try him first.  He was enthusiastic about the small wild rainbows in Piru Creek.  Only trouble was, Don forgot to warn me about the safety aspects — the creek is only an hour from LA, and I never got to it — got chased off by a gang with a shotgun.  All part of the great adventure of flyfishing… Proceed with caution, ask Don’s advice, and good luck. Regards, George

I have found that it is better to go to the Mammoth area and take a whole weekend or go to the Kern above the lake.  I have fished a lot on Piru–it is not bad EARLY in the morning (reprodicible hatch–take 18-22 gnat imitations and small Adams along with small gold rib hares ears) abd youll miss the gill net/picnic/trash producing crowd and see  mainly  anglers (fly fishers at that).  There are usually  fish allover the place (small 8-12 max) but I have had the most luck downstream about 2-4 miles or so as well as upstream in the "catch-and-release"  (also known as the "gill-net-as-much-as-you-can-and-bait-dunk-for-the-rest" section to some of the anglers). If you do go up there plan on leaving early (ie 10 or 11 AM), bring lots of water and avoid the heat. Good Luck and tight lines– Aaron

Response:

I fish Piru all the time.  The key to survival is the sacrifice car and 2lbs kevlar fishing vest.  I was there last in june and the water flow was down to a trickle.  Small fish only.  Does anyone know if there is a minimum flow for this tailwater?

Response:

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The C&K-crew has poached the C&R section again so it’s without many fish again. Contrary to what you must be thinking, I am sympathetic with the plight of this creek and the anglers who care about it.  It seems that the fundamental problem has been simply one of a resource that can not handle the incredible urban demand for it.  Or, maybe it has handled it beautifully.  If it is a put and take, C&K fishery completely, then I would call it a ’sacrificial watershed’.   I call Lake Powell a ’sacrificial watershed’.  That is, think of just how intenseley it is used.  Now consider, all of these motorhead boaters would be *somewhere else* (if not for Powell), would they not ?   All of these C&K gang members on Piru would be somewhere else, would they not ? So, make it C&R…pure C&R, protect those little stockers and what have you got ? Well, a crowd, still, albeit a more civilized crowd ? And what about those displaced C&K Gang members ?  Where would they be ?  Somewhere else, to be sure, maybe they’d be poaching at pyramid ?  Education ? Eradication ? Considered…but no…people as a whole are just too fucked up.  Get enough of them together and you have problems irregardless of regulations. How many gang bangers read the 1996 California Fishing Regs ? The answer lies in neither C&R nor C&K regulations, but in the acceptance of the fact that there are just too many damned people. Now, what are we going to do about that ?   TimW C&K Gangbanger

Trouble is Tim that this stream’s C&R section has a strain of native rainbows that has not been diluted with stocker blood. They are above a waterfall and thus isolated from the stocker filled section below. I agree that the fishing pressure is to much, but only because the gill net crews sweep the stream when ever the fish grow to larger than 8". The state’s solution of C&R on the upper section means that on most days only one or two people are fishing this section. But it is only 1.5 miles long. So when 300 fish are removed with gills nets, years worth of restoration efforts are destroyed. Solution to me is to remove some "nuts" to reduce gene-pool dilution. Hanging a few poachers from nearby trees and not removing them until their bones fall away also might work. If I could, I would have their pubic hair turned transformed into treblehooks. Or if one isn’t bloodthirsty, how about 40 hours a week for 6 months working on restoration work on the very stream they "f" up. Don B. PS – Yes, there’s too many people, have you called Dr. Death? Or are you looking for volunteers? Not me, I learn not to volunteer in the military.

Response:

The C&K-crew has poached the C&R section again so it’s without many fish again.

Contrary to what you must be thinking, I am sympathetic with the plight of this creek and the anglers who care about it.  It seems that the fundamental problem has been simply one of a resource that can not handle the incredible urban demand for it.  Or, maybe it has handled it beautifully.  If it is a put and take, C&K fishery completely, then I would call it a ’sacrificial watershed’.   I call Lake Powell a ’sacrificial watershed’.  That is, think of just how intenseley it is used.  Now consider, all of these motorhead boaters would be *somewhere else* (if not for Powell), would they not ?   All of these C&K gang members on Piru would be somewhere else, would they not ? So, make it C&R…pure C&R, protect those little stockers and what have you got ? Well, a crowd, still, albeit a more civilized crowd ? And what about those displaced C&K Gang members ?  Where would they be ?  Somewhere else, to be sure, maybe they’d be poaching at pyramid ?  Education ? Eradication ? Considered…but no…people as a whole are just too fucked up.  Get enough of them together and you have problems irregardless of regulations. How many gang bangers read the 1996 California Fishing Regs ? The answer lies in neither C&R nor C&K regulations, but in the acceptance of the fact that there are just too many damned people. Now, what are we going to do about that ?   TimW C&K Gangbanger

Response:

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeff: I had a similar question a few months back when visiting LA, and got good this post.  But try him first.  He was enthusiastic about the small wild rainbows in Piru Creek.  Only trouble was, Don forgot to warn me about the safety aspects — the creek is only an hour from LA, and I never got to it — got chased off by a gang with a shotgun.  All part of the great adventure of flyfishing… Proceed with caution, ask Don’s advice, and good luck. Regards, George

George, The C&K-crew has poached the C&R section again so it’s without many fish again. Also didn’t I tell you to wear your Kevlar Gore-Tex waders? The bullet-proof yet breathable models. <g Also, drive a sacrifical car if LA’s boy scouts are around and about. But do try to fish with a friend. Don’t challenge a bait fishermen in the single barbless hook C&R section unless you’re packing "iron". Just move on. Normally not a problem during peak fishing weekend times. Biggest problem today (9-4-96) is the Castaic fire has burned 25,00 acres near this stream. Since the fire was burning all weekend and I-5 was closed several times, I haven’t got up to see if the creek is still there.  So fishing might be for pre-cooked fish or for small fish only (fish fry). <g The Sierra Pacific Fly Fishers (SPFF) should be commended for trying to keep the stream up but without money from the state for a game warden the poaching will be an on-going problem. If anyone that still  goes there, try some Royal Wulff’s or other attractor flies. Bead-head’s also work well. It’s a shame because this could be a nice little trout stream. Don Burns

Response:

Question:

I will be fishing with a guide May 18, 19 and 20, but my flight arrives in Key West the afternoon before and I don’t want to waste it. Can anyone reccomend a wading spot in the Key West area? I have never been that far down the keys. Thanks.

I, too, plan on visiting the Keys to do some fly fishing.  I won

Question:

  Which sinking line should I choose for nymph fishing in small rivers?   unless the river is really large, you don’t need a sinking at all…   TimW

Do you change for a sinking leader or will the nymph drag the leader down with it quickly enough? Peter. —  Peter Sollander, CERN ST/MC/TCR  Tel: (+41) 22.767.8081          Fax: (+41) 22.767.8910        

Response:

  Which sinking line should I choose for nymph fishing in small rivers?   unless the river is really large, you don’t need a sinking at all…   TimW Do you change for a sinking leader or will the nymph drag the leader down with it quickly enough?

I use a long leader and split shot and fish effectively in 6+ feet of water.  One spot in particular that comes to mind.  The majority of the Roaring Fork flows between these two big rocks right in the main channel causing impressive rapids.  I would routinely wade deep right to the edge of this and nail nice ‘bows one nymphs fished deep with 5 or more BB’s right in this fast water.   My problem with sinking lines, leaders etc. is that the fly will float up from the bottom too far, unless the weight is RIGHT THERE within 6 inches or so of the bug.  A fly one or two feet off the bottom in this fast water will not catch fish. TimW For larger rivers, and some streamer applications, a Hi-speed, Hi-D Sinking tip line is WAY cool.  Dragging a big wooley behind a driftboat with a sink tip can be deadly. TimW

Response:

: If the river is unusually fast or deep, you might want to use a sink : tip, the weight of the line depends on what your rod is rated for. The : idea is to get the nymph to bounce on the bottom once in a while. A : small split shot or some "Shape-A-Weight" on the leader can do the same : thing. True. A great time and money saver. : As far as being a beginning caster, I would get the Weight Forward (WF) : line as it is easier to put the fly where you want it. I’ve been told this often, but my experience has been that they’re really not that much easier to cast than a DT line, and DT lines turn over a mite easier. PLus, you can turn ‘em around when then get worn! –mike

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Which sinking line should I choose for nymph fishing in small rivers? DT, WF?  sinking tip? #1-#4? and what about leaders?  Sinking? Fast Sinking, Extra Fast Sinking?

If you are fishing "small rivers" I wouldn’t bother with a sinking line. You can get a fly down to the fish even with a floating line. A long leader with a small split shot or bead head  will do in most situations. I’ve been tying beads into the body of many nymphs instead of lead and find they work great. You can also add a sink tip to your line, sized to the situation. I always carry a few in different sizes just in case. If you are planning to fish a lake, or a fast, deep river then a sinking line would be handy. I carry a med. sink for lakes and time the decent. For Steehead in rivers I pack a floating, 10 ft. sink tip, and a 24 ft 325 gn. sink tip. The last line works great for strippers….but casting is kind of chuck and duck….

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For nymph fishing small rivers and creeks a floating line is generally all that is required.  For especially deep hole a weight forward would be a good choice, but in  most instances a floating line with a leader set for the depth of water, and a strike indicator, is my general set-up of choice. Clint

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writes: Which sinking line should I choose for nymph fishing in small rivers? DT, WF?  sinking tip? #1-#4? and what about leaders?  Sinking? Fast Sinking, Extra Fast Sinking? What’s a beginner’s choice Any ideas?

Hi Pete, I would not choose a sinking line for nymph fishing in most situations. The object of most nymph fishing is to get the fly to *dead drift* in the bottom 6" or so of water.  It’s very tough to dead drift a nymph on a sinking line as you have no control over the sinking line once it sinks. You are at the mercy of the currents because you can’t mend the line.  It is much more effective to fish nymphs on a floating line with a long leader because you can mend it and control the drift; and it’s especially effective to use a strike indicator to suspend the nymph exactly where you want in the water column and drift it down the current lane you choose. If you want particulars on this, drop me some e-mail & I’ll let you know how to set such a system up, along with casts to help you fish it. The place I use a full sinking line is in a lake as it allows you to swim your fly right over the top of weedbeds and structure which is very difficult to do with a floating line and a long leader.  Works well because there is no current in the lake to push your line around.  You could also use a sink tip for this though It tends to rise up a bit as you retrieve it.   A sink tip is a good choice in rivers because you can mend the belly section (the floating part) to control the sinking part.  Unfortunately it’s not real good for "dead drifts" as you need to have some tension on the line to detect the strike and if you have tension on the line you’re not getting a dead drift.  I will use a sink tip for swimming streamers across the current and also for swinging nymphs through the current to imitate a big swimming nymph (like an isonychia) or perhaps a caddis pupa (rarely but once in a while). Don’t feel you need to go out and buy all the different types of lines – floating, sinking (in 6 different densities), and sink tips (in all the different densities and about 10 or 12 different lengths).  Get a floating line and learn how to use it.  Then if you are going to fish specific conditions – such as on a lake at a depth of 10 feet deep – get the appropriate line for those conditions.  Otherwise you can go out and buy 6 different lines or more and still not have the one you need when you need it.                                          Hope this helps,                                                   Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Which sinking line should I choose for nymph fishing in small rivers? DT, WF?  sinking tip? #1-#4? and what about leaders?  Sinking? Fast Sinking, Extra Fast Sinking? What’s a beginner’s choice Any ideas? Cheers,        Pete. —  Peter Sollander, CERN ST/MC/TCR  Tel: (+41) 22.767.8081          Fax: (+41) 22.767.8910        

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Which sinking line should I choose for nymph fishing in small rivers?

unless the river is really large, you don’t need a sinking at all… TimW

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Which sinking line should I choose for nymph fishing in small rivers?

If the river is unusually fast or deep, you might want to use a sink tip, the weight of the line depends on what your rod is rated for. The idea is to get the nymph to bounce on the bottom once in a while. A small split shot or some "Shape-A-Weight" on the leader can do the same thing. As far as being a beginning caster, I would get the Weight Forward (WF) line as it is easier to put the fly where you want it.

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Question:

I have a baitcasting technique question. I have been a fly fisherman for some time.  I recently added spinning gear and lakes to my fishing portfolio and have REALLY enjoyed it! This xmas I moved to a baitcasting reel (Inexpensive Abu Garcia reel available via Cabelas), and a nice IM7 Cabelas baitcasting rod. I have no baitcasting fishermen friends.  So, I am on my own. I read the instructions and started practicing casting.  Backlash city. All the time.  One cast — then 30 minutes of fusing — then cutting of line and one more cast…and so on. I want to get this, but think I must be misinterpreting something. The instructions with my reel tell me to adjust the manual brake and then the magnetic brake so the lure will move about 10 inches when I jiggle the rod.  Ok…I can do that. But, the question is….."what is the role of your thumb when you are casting.  That is, do you use your thumb to lightly put pressure on the reel/line while you are casting?  Or, do you take your thumb completely away while the lure is in the air and only use your thumb to suddenly brake when the cast hits water or whatever?  Are these mechanical brakes supposed to do the job themselves?  Or, am I to actively use my thumb the hole time the cast in in progress? HELP I know this is a stupid question, but I have no baitcasting gurus around here who can help me.  My only advice so far from my other fishing buddies is to go back to my spinning gear.

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Quoting johng from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing  jo Path:  jonews1.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!e  jo Organization: Duke’s Fuqua School of Business  jo Lines: 28  jo NNTP-Posting-Host: piscator.fsb.duke.edu  jo X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.3  jo I read the instructions and started practicing casting.  Backlash city.  jo All the time.  One cast — then 30 minutes of fusing — then cutting of  jo line and one more cast…and so on. Start out with easy lob type casts, until you get your hand to eye coordination down pat. The thumb is used primarily when you see the lure touch down, at this point the reel is still spinning, it doesn’t know that the lure isn’t still going.  jo I want to get this, but think I must be misinterpreting something.  jo The instructions with my reel tell me to adjust the manual brake and  jo then the magnetic brake so the lure will move about 10 inches when I  jo jiggle the rod.  Ok…I can do that. While you are learning I would suggest you turn the magnets all the way up and tighten the manual brake a little more, until you get used to it. Also don’t cast INTO the wind, that will cause problems every time. You may also want to cast a heavier lure while you are learning, it helps.  jo But, the question is….."what is the role of your thumb when you  jo are casting.  That is, do you use your thumb to lightly put pressure on  jo the reel/line while you are casting?  Or, do you take your thumb  jocompletely away while the lure is in the air and only use your thumb  joto suddenly brake when the cast hits water or whatever? Its really a little of both, as you gain experience you will learn to "feather" your cast with your thumb, and then stop the reel when the lure reaches the target.  jo Are these  jomechanical brakes supposed to do the job themselves?  Or, am I to  joactively use my thumb the hole time the cast in in progress? See above.  jo HELP I know this is a stupid question, but I have no baitcasting  jogurus around here who can help me.  My only advice so far from my  joother fishing buddies is to go back to my spinning gear. Also if its cold out the line will stiffen up and cause some problems. Remember to keep the handles up and make easy casts to start with. Once you get used to it you’ll wonder why you didn’t do it a long time ago…<G BTW: What model reel? Some cheapies will never cast well. Its not a stupid question, at all, its just a learning process. Good luck. Greg….

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I find that if you cast as far as you can then strip out a small amount of line add a small strip of tape <not very sticky tape can keep your backlashes from going deep down into the spool and causing you a lot of problems. The tape will come off if you happen on that BIG DAWG! and he pulls out the line past the tape.   but the best thing to do is practice practice practice and when you see that jig hit the water put the brakes on .

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For years I’ve done this.  hold the rod straight out in front of you. tighten the center nob on the LEFT hand side of the real.  This is not the magnetic anti- backlash on the Right hand side of the reel.  Hit the free spool button or thumbbar release, as if you were getting ready to cast.  Turn the LEFT hand nob Away from you (loosen) just until the weight on the end of your line starts dropping.  try casting.  If you have a magnetic anti-backlash on the right hand side, you may then loosen the LEFT hand nob a little more and compensate as needed with the magnetic adjustment.  this works fine on reels without a mag helper, but you will be able to achieve more distance by fine tuning if you have a mag adjustment.  Do this whenever you switch to a different weight. Andy S.

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: I have a baitcasting technique question. : I read the instructions and started practicing casting.  Backlash city. : All the time.  One cast — then 30 minutes of fusing — then cutting of : line and one more cast…and so on. Well, if it’s any comfort that’s how I spent my first day of practice. The trick on the thumb is to control the speed of the reel given a particular line, the rigging weight, and the wind. My advice: keep gentle pressure at all times and try and slow the cast gradually so that your lure/bait drops majestically where you want it to go. It’ll beome second nature, I promise. Then, once it is second nature, you’ll never have a backlash again. What you get then are called professional overcasts. <g Here’s a tip. Reel off enough line to cover the distance you intend to be casting. Put a strip of tape across the line on the reel at that point. Any backlash will at least stop at the tape.

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I agree with practicing at home, however, when I first picked up a baitcaster, I was told that if you could cast a 1/4 oz. plug without overrun and with accuracy, you have won half of the battle.  Of course, your rod would have to be able to throw a 1/4 oz. plug (ie: be rated for it).  I have found that once I learned this, I not only learned the technique, but gained confidence as well.  I was even throwing rooster tails with my reels and catching fish.   One more thing, be sure to keep your spool control as tight as you can when first practicing.  I also think that casting the 1/4 oz. plug let me loosen the spool more after while and I was able to throw farther and with reasonable accuracy.  But this was only after a few weeks of practice.  Try it.  Just my $0.02. Just be patient and practice at home, not on the water. I suggest a lure weight of at least 1/2 ounce for starters with a rod designed for lures from 1/4 – 3/4 ounces.  The heavier the lure the easier it is to cast without backlash. I would also suggest a line rated at no more than 12 pound test, larger line backlashes easier.  Good luck and trust me, the practice is well worth it.

– Andrew R. Gherna                 |   Eastern Illinois University      |  "Keep them mowing blades sharp"

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