Question:

<SNIP  and my Red Chili dove enchiladas are muy bueno (quail and pheasant have been substituted at times).

<SNIP Sounds delicious!   Care to share the recipe? — George Reinier

Response:

NRA Life Member Sierra Club Life Member NSS life member

Life Life Member — Jeff ORBS Classifieds – Free outdoor classified ads     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs ORBS Escrow – Affordable safety for online buyers and sellers     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs/oe-homepage.html

Response:

Greetings: Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this?

Please see suggestions/possible ideas below. A pan can be a summer luxury, but it is far from a necessity. A mentor made an oven (he was in the Corps of Engineers), and he would bring in Goldens and make brownies or gingerbread (I preferred the brownies), and I would spend the day off climbing, and life was grand.  An oven is even more of a luxury. There used to be commercial ovens, but several factors have reduced seeing them. Improvising is a key.

  Yup, and the hungrier one is, the more one improvises – at least in our camps! I prefer to fry my trout in some oil or butter, lightly coated in corn meal.  (Important note:  If preparing fish this way after dark, _do not_ confuse corn meal bag with  powdered orange juice mix bag!)  :-(  There are many other options – just some examples: One can make a one-time fry pan out of aluminum foil. Wrap trout in aluminum foil and roast on hot coals. Roast them on a stick.   Trout au bleu [blue trout] Someone help me with my French, _please_.

 For this, you must be in a place where trout can be caught immediately: Prepare rest of meal, i.e., make rice and/or suitable other items in advance.  Bring water in pan to boil, and squeeze a little lemon juice in the water.  (You can carry a lemon a long time on most backpacking trips.)  Have someone catch trout and toss to another fellow camper, if possible.  Clean trout, preferably with one stroke, and plunge trout into boiling water.  Boil for about 30 seconds, or until flesh flakes off easily.  If you do this right, the trout flesh will turn light blue, hence the name.  Very light and flaky with most oils boiled away.  Even if the trout flesh doesn’t turn light blue, it will taste good anyway.  On a side note, I heard that fishermen in the northern states, (and perhaps Canada?), sometimes boil large lake trout in 50 gallon drums for fish-feeds.  Is that true?  If so, I would like to try that sometime. "Slurp" indeed!  :-) Cheers, and happy trials,  -Mark NRA Life Member Sierra Club Life Member

Heck, I’d rather write ‘em a check every year, just in case I change my mind!  :-)

Response:

Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this?

A pan can be a summer luxury, but it is far from a necessity. A mentor made an oven (he was in the Corps of Engineers), and he would bring in Goldens and make brownies or gingerbread (I preferred the brownies), and I would spend the day off climbing, and life was grand.  An oven is even more of a luxury. There used to be commercial ovens, but several factors have reduced seeing them. Improvising is a key. NRA Life Member

Sierra Club Life Member

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NRA Life Member Sierra Club Life Member

NSS life member              We’ll cross that bridge when it rears its ugly head

Response:

Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this?

Aluminum foil cannot be overrated.  Trout can be cooked in foil, and a small amount of spice, green pepper, onion, bottled salad dressing, or whatever can be added.  Not a lot to carry, and makes some very tasty fish.   PS.  Do not forget the matches. Steve Spelling, grammar, and content errors intentionally included for those whose only purpose in life is to correct others.  ;-)

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OK to those who do this lets say you like to make a small fire and cook a few for lunch what would I carry a fry pan, small grill top or what? What have you tried.Thanks

For car-camping I bring all the cooking luxuries.  Foil, some lemon and butter work most of the time with a wood fire.  It’s a little difficult to cook up a good sized trout with a Whisperlite though (frying up something you have filleted is easier).  You have to move around your under-sized light-weight backpacking frying pan and flip the fish a few times (I prefer my fish under-cooked, vs. over-cooked).  I do have a moderate weight grate I bring backpacking sometimes. NRA Life Member

Not again. — Ski Abineau! kknisely at parkcity dot com

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I would hike in about 2 1/2 hour hike then fish about 3-4 hours up river I have a good size day pack I use for my waders and boots I would not be close to a car when I cooked the trout. Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this? NRA Life Member

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: OK to those who do this lets say you : like to make a small fire and cook a few : for lunch what would I carry a fry pan, : small grill top or what? What have you : tried.Thanks : NRA Life Member A friend brought along a small butane stove, teflon fry pan, a little oil and a little breading and some tortillas. We had fresh fish tacos alongside the stream on a fine bushwhacking daytrip. The tortillas made a great way to handle the cooked fish. I find that carrying the fish-cooking pan and supplies isn’t worth the weight since I’m already carrying a *reliable* cook-anywhere dinner when backpacking. Fishing is just entertainment for me. Last backpacking trip I was glad I’d left the fishing gear home. It was a very aggressive, off-trail, no-one-we-could-contact-has-ever-been-there kind of trip. My buddy brought his fly rod. Unfortutately  all the high lakes along the way were fish-free and the single stream caught fish wasn’t enough fun to justify bringing the flyrod. I’m glad I wasn’t carrying mine. See http://estes.on-line.com/rmnp/reports/paradise.html   for the story. Ron

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Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this?

I actually carry live trout with me, in addition to the fry pan and grill top. I keep the trout right next to my sled-mounted .308. -Paul John Paul Minda Dept of Psychology University at Buffalo http://wings.buffalo.edu/~minda

Response:

for lunch what would I carry a fry pan, small grill top or what?

Easy.  Pot lids.  Works fine.  No extra weight. They don’t hold the 5.5 lbs ones in one piece, but you learn to make do.

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Paul, I don’t think that is balanced correctly.  I think if you put a .223 with a high capacity magazine opposite and put the trout in the middle, it will balance much better. I have heard, from a reliable source, that this is the way to do it. Chris It is amazing the things you learn here. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this? I actually carry live trout with me, in addition to the fry pan and grill top. I keep the trout right next to my sled-mounted .308. -Paul John Paul Minda Dept of Psychology University at Buffalo http://wings.buffalo.edu/~minda

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How many of you backpackers trout fish? If I get some responses to this I have more questions.Thanks

You will probably troll better in rec.outdoors.fishing or one of the other fishing groups, either in that group or as a cross-post. But cross-post carefully. I just eat fish.  Like Muir, I find the act of fishing boring. Slurp.

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How many of you backpackers trout fish? Yes  (Of course ALL of us are backpackers and we do nothing else)

I HOPE you either eat them, release them or feed the bears with them. NRA Life Member No

Yes. — Ski Abineau!

Where’s that? Do they have sled trails too?

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OK to those who do this lets say you like to make a small fire and cook a few for lunch what would I carry a fry pan, small grill top or what? What have you tried.Thanks NRA Life Member

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OK to those who do this lets say you like to make a small fire and cook a few for lunch what would I carry a fry pan, small grill top or what? What have you tried.Thanks

There are a myriad of ways to cook fresh trout, and all of them are wonderful.  For details, I highly recommend Rick Greenspan’s "Backpacking: A Hedonist’s Guide." Sadly, it’s out of print, but your local library might have it. Gerald

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I HOPE you either eat them, release them or feed the bears with them.

‘Guess I’m missing your point…what else would you do with them? Generally, I prefer to eat them vs. catch-n-release.  It depends upon where you’re fishing, with whom your fishing with and how many other fish you’ve caught, limits, Blue Ribbon Fishing Waters, etc. NRA Life Member No Yes.

Not all gun owners/hunters are NRA members.  We lived off of elk chili in college and my Red Chili dove enchiladas are muy bueno (quail and pheasant have been substituted at times). — Ski Abineau! Where’s that? Do they have sled trails too?

Sorry, the "chutes" are located well within the Kachina Peaks Wilderness, but there is the "Waterline Road" which is gerrymandered into the Wilderness area (so the City can drive up the road and check on their water pipes).  A nice mtn. bike ride on the road.  When there’s snow, the Flagstaff area is quite popular with the ‘bilers, (N. Rim of GC too). — Ski Abineau! kknisely at parkcity dot com

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Is there any other reason to backpack than to get to out of the way trout water?

Climbing. Spelling, grammar, and content errors intentionally included for those whose only purpose in life is to correct others.  ;-)

I like it.

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How many of you backpackers trout fish? If I get some responses to this I have more questions.Thanks

Done mean fish for trout or catch trout? I’m pretty good at the first and just OK at the second. — Jeff ORBS Classifieds – Free outdoor classified ads     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs ORBS Escrow – Affordable safety for online buyers and sellers     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs/oe-homepage.html

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: How many of you backpackers trout : fish? If I get some responses to this : I have more questions.Thanks Sure. Makes a great way to pass the time when you’re too tired to walk anymore. : NRA Life Member Ron NRA Life too

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I canoe camp, not backpack.  Yes, I flail for trout (recently took it up, it’s not a pretty sight.  But the trout don’t mind.  They just swim in the same spot in the stream and ignore me.). If I were in a survival situation, the last thing I’d be doing is fishing with a line.  Nets.  Nets and weirs.  Just thought I’d drop that in to possibly start a new line dipped and see if I can catch anything bigger and more easily… How many of you backpackers trout fish? If I get some responses to this I have more questions.Thanks NRA Life Member

—– rbc: vixen  (somewhat harmless) 0-0:  The artist formerly known as something else. I only answer my email every few months, on average.   Patience helps.   http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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I do I do!!!!!!!

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Is there any other reason to backpack than to get to out of the way trout water? Fishing is a very nice compliment to backpacking, not to mention you have an extra food source. Fishing is my second most favorite activity. Steve NRA and CCW Devotee Spelling, grammar, and content errors intentionally included for those whose only purpose in life is to correct others.  ;-)

Response:

How many of you backpackers trout fish?

Yes  (Of course ALL of us are backpackers and we do nothing else) NRA Life Member

No — Ski Abineau! kknisely at parkcity dot com

Response:

How many of you backpackers trout fish? If I get some responses to this I have more questions.Thanks NRA Life Member

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Question:

Thanks for the help, guys…. SpEEdo… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He’s asking 17,500 on the side of it.  It’s a helluva deal with that big tuna tower and all the fishing rigging.  However, I’ve talked to 8 long-time sport fishermen about it and they told me Pacemaker had some I had one of these (1973) for sale two years ago.  It is great for near coastal cruising.. It has a relatively low center of gravity making it very stable.  It isn’t a full V hull as it is very flat in the stern.  This allows it acess to shallower water, but makes it pound more in the steep chop.  The flying bridge is fairly small. but adequate.  The fellow who bought it uses it in the L.I. sound regularly, and loves it.  There was no problem with blisters or delaminations. I think the $17,000 is a little high even rigged for offshore.  I sold the one at my place for $12,000 with two near new engines.  No fishing equiptment though. Boatbasin http://www.boatbasin.com

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<snip However, I’ve talked to 8 long-time sport fishermen about it and they told me Pacemaker had some AWFUL problems with blisters, delaminations and other ugly things that put the company out of business…..yecch.

What years were the eight?  An old-time marine surveyor told me that boats made before the Arab oil embargo of the mid-seventies had few if any problems with blisters.  Only after the embargo hit and oil prices went sky-high did manufacturers start tampering with resin formulations and unknowingly create blister city.  The boat in question is a ‘72 model and may be perfectly blister-free. Bill, W7TI

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He’s asking 17,500 on the side of it.  It’s a helluva deal with that big tuna tower and all the fishing rigging.  However, I’ve talked to 8 long-time sport fishermen about it and they told me Pacemaker had some

I had one of these (1973) for sale two years ago.  It is great for near coastal cruising.. It has a relatively low center of gravity making it very stable.  It isn’t a full V hull as it is very flat in the stern.  This allows it acess to shallower water, but makes it pound more in the steep chop.  The flying bridge is fairly small. but adequate.  The fellow who bought it uses it in the L.I. sound regularly, and loves it.  There was no problem with blisters or delaminations. I think the $17,000 is a little high even rigged for offshore.  I sold the one at my place for $12,000 with two near new engines.  No fishing equiptment though. Boatbasin http://www.boatbasin.com

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There’s one for sale in Charleston I have to walk by every time I go to my bud’s sailboat.  It had a little smoke damage from a fire in a home air conditioner he used but has been completely restored inside. It has radar/sonar/GPS/tv/microwave/Loran/2 alarms/lights/water/well, you get the idea. He’s asking 17,500 on the side of it.  It’s a helluva deal with that big tuna tower and all the fishing rigging.  However, I’ve talked to 8 long-time sport fishermen about it and they told me Pacemaker had some AWFUL problems with blisters, delaminations and other ugly things that put the company out of business…..yecch. Sure is tempting….it’s still floating, the new AC/heat pump is pumping and I see lights inside the stained-glass windows….(c; SpEEdo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am considering a 30′ Pacemaker – 1972. The owner says the model is Sportfish, but it sure has a small cockpit. It has a fly bridge and lower helm station which behind the step down salon/galley. This open helm area extends quite a way into the cockpit and includes the engine hatches (it has a fighting chair) and the cockpit seems quite short. I wonder if this is more a Cruiser model than a SF and if I’d get a better fishing boat if I looked for a later model. Does anyone have any knowledge of these models? I have looked in the "Sportfishing Boats 28-82′" guide and the oldest Pacemaker they show is a 1973 that has a different layout. The boat is in very good condition with outriggers, 489 hrs on 220/hp chryslers, older electronics (no GPS or radar) – he is asking $19K. Does this sound reasonable?? Thanks!

Response:

I am considering a 30′ Pacemaker – 1972. The owner says the model is Sportfish, but it sure has a small cockpit. It has a fly bridge and lower helm station which behind the step down salon/galley. This open helm area extends quite a way into the cockpit and includes the engine hatches (it has a fighting chair) and the cockpit seems quite short. I wonder if this is more a Cruiser model than a SF and if I’d get a better fishing boat if I looked for a later model. Does anyone have any knowledge of these models? I have looked in the "Sportfishing Boats 28-82′" guide and the oldest Pacemaker they show is a 1973 that has a different layout. The boat is in very good condition with outriggers, 489 hrs on 220/hp chryslers, older electronics (no GPS or radar) – he is asking $19K. Does this sound reasonable?? Thanks!

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I wouldn’t trust the reliability of the hourmeter.  You need both a survey and a mechanic to check out your boat to decide if 19K is a good price. — — Jim Proud, but feeble minded Regal Owner Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead.

| I am considering a 30′ Pacemaker – 1972. The owner says the model is | Sportfish, but it sure has a small cockpit. It has a fly bridge and lower | helm station which behind the step down salon/galley. This open helm area | extends quite a way into the cockpit and includes the engine hatches (it has | a fighting chair) and the cockpit seems quite short. | | I wonder if this is more a Cruiser model than a SF and if I’d get a better | fishing boat if I looked for a later model. Does anyone have any knowledge of | these models? I have looked in the "Sportfishing Boats 28-82′" guide and the | oldest Pacemaker they show is a 1973 that has a different layout. | | The boat is in very good condition with outriggers, 489 hrs on 220/hp | chryslers, older electronics (no GPS or radar) – he is asking $19K. Does this | sound reasonable?? | | Thanks! |

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Question:

Thank you for your time, James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist amateur is right.  you’re an idiot plain and simple.  you are misinformed on fishery issues.  try doing some reading, and not just PETAphile propoganda. good day you twit, chris

Don’t hold back Chris, what do you really think?  :-) It’s probably a troll, take it easy, laugh at all the ignorant statements, it’s Friday by joe, time to fish tomorrow.  I think I’ll fish with some of them thar computer designed flies…so I too can catch fish like a pro, I’m still chuckling.  :-) Later,      - Ken — "Time is but the stream I go a-fishin in. I drink at it, but while I drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. It’s thin current slides away, but eternity remains."     – H.D. Thoreau

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(snipped) <<Maybe we should start thinking about limiting people’s rights to breed? What is this?  A rehearsal for Loony Tunes.   Dave LaCourse

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I promise that, when I see a hungry child working a pool, I’ll move on…

…and by all means, help him with technique, if he is struggling. Shoot, I’ll give him a few flies, although I have no clue where to get those computer made ones. Probably have to check on Gerkhes website for those.                                    Tom Littleton

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You have many friends here. Ha, ha.  LOL!  OK, I can tell that T-Bone isn’t interested in my discussion.  That’s fine, if I can change one mind, or even get someone to think about the problem, my post will not be in vain. James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

        by this post, you show yourself to be hopelessly dense.  tim walker has honored your positions at the expense of his cyberpopularity for years, you pig headed twit.  re-read his post, fool. wayno

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I promise that, when I see a hungry child working a pool, I’ll move on to the next one. Unless, of course, it is catch and release in which case I’ll have to report him if he’s eating<g. You and timbo have a real nice day. — Charlie.

Where I fish, it is almost impossible to bring in and unhook a little native brook trout before some dirty-faced, rag-wearing, famine-stricken, third-world youngster sinks a fork into its side.  It’s really starting to piss me off. First, I used pepper spray.  Now, I’m carrying the Combat Commander. Bob Scott

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(snip) I understand some people’s idea of nature is different than mine. I’ve stated mine (at least I hope I have), and am willing to listen to anyone who disputes the effects of flyfishing on the world’s fish population.

        no, buster, what you really want is to be "liberal", "different", "confrontational"; and, more than anything else, possesed of a feeling of superiority over the unwashed masses of fishermen. James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist (and still an engineer!)

        wayno

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I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.  

[snip] This post must be a troll. It’s hard to believe that anyone could be so wrong about so many things.

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I think the operative word here is AMATEUR!  I promise you I could write you a page of anti-fishing nonsense which would make you want to sell your house and send me all your money to save the planet.  A single web site,  a single appeal, a single slant on any environmental problem is sure to incite some individuals to post messages, send donations, and even in some cases take anti-social behavior (tree spiking, etc.) as a mission.  Perhaps this discussion belongs better with Greenpeace, and PETA where a wider audience of people looking for a life will eagerly join in to support.  If you’re looking to talk multi-use management, I am not an AMATEUR.  Send me your donations today Jim, I will save your personal piece of this planet. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

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<<[snip timster type nanner] not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate?

I promise that, when I see a hungry child working a pool, I’ll move on to the next one. Unless, of course, it is catch and release in which case I’ll have to report him if he’s eating<g. You and timbo have a real nice day. Yeah, I too wondered about that.  "Food off a hungry child’s plate?" Dave LaCourse

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Jim Andrews writes <massively uniformed drivel snipped James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

You got that part right, Jim. Amateur to the point of near ignorance, from your writing here. Do you have the slightest clue about fly fishing or conservations efforts of fishermen? I expect this reply to join a veritable flame barrage(especially at this, the cabin-fever time of year).                                 Tom Littleton

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I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.  All you have to do is check out websites like the one linked below and you can see the devastating effect flyfishing is having on overall fish population statistics.  This is true for fish than aren’t even being caught for legitimate reasons (i.e., food), like the sharks! http://www.livingplanet.org/seachange/fisheries/ I realize that flyfishing is tremendously popular, and in fact its popularity is growing in leaps and bounds.  The advent of new and exciting technologies, like computer-designed flies and hooks, have made it possible for the novice to catch fish like the pros of old. Why must this be the case?  Why must we sacrifice the pleasant and entirely natural life-cycle of an innocent fish for our own pleasure, not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate? Please, think about what I am saying.  This is a terribly important issue.  I am happy to discuss this admittedly emotional topic with anyone here, either on these newsgroups or through email.  Perhaps we can all learn something. Thank you for your time, James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

Response:

I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.  All you have to do is check out websites like the one linked below and you can see the devastating effect flyfishing is having on overall fish population statistics.  This is true for fish than aren’t even being caught for legitimate reasons (i.e., food), like the sharks!

Bingo. http://www.livingplanet.org/seachange/fisheries/ I realize that flyfishing is tremendously popular, and in fact its popularity is growing in leaps and bounds.

Well….once people realize that what you say is true then flyfishing shall return to the subsistence intentions of its roots and our heritage.  This yuppie trend is just noise Jim. The advent of new and exciting technologies, like computer-designed flies and hooks, have made it possible for the novice to catch fish like the pros of old.

Yup. Why must this be the case?  Why must we sacrifice the pleasant and entirely natural life-cycle of an innocent fish for our own pleasure, not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate?

Damned good questions. Please, think about what I am saying.  This is a terribly important issue.  I am happy to discuss this admittedly emotional topic with anyone here, either on these newsgroups or through email.  Perhaps we can all learn something.

You have many friends here. Thank you for your time,

And for yours. James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

– TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Please, think about what I am saying.  This is a terribly important issue.  I am happy to discuss this admittedly emotional topic with anyone here, either on these newsgroups or through email.  Perhaps we can all learn something.

If you want to discuss this with an OPEN mind in a gentlemanly open and exchange of ideas then email me for this group thread will probably desintigrate into another C&R tirade real quick. If you’re trolling, I humbly interject that you are completely ignoring the relevant facts of evolution, the food chain, giving to much creedence to computer designs in fishing, and loosing sight of what some peoples idea of nature is all about. Wayne *biologist turned accountant but very concerned about nature, regardless* Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

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you know, just this am as i was reading gg’s post and enjoying my coffee, i thought what we need is a good ole c&k vs c&r debate to liven things up around here. looks like this just may fit the bill. ahhhh, the good ole days. have at it boys. –Wataugan "hopefully, my one and only reply to this thread" Walt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.  All you have to do is check out websites like the one linked below and you can see the devastating effect flyfishing is having on overall fish population statistics.  This is true for fish than aren’t even being caught for legitimate reasons (i.e., food), like the sharks! http://www.livingplanet.org/seachange/fisheries/ I realize that flyfishing is tremendously popular, and in fact its popularity is growing in leaps and bounds.  The advent of new and exciting technologies, like computer-designed flies and hooks, have made it possible for the novice to catch fish like the pros of old. Why must this be the case?  Why must we sacrifice the pleasant and entirely natural life-cycle of an innocent fish for our own pleasure, not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate? Please, think about what I am saying.  This is a terribly important issue.  I am happy to discuss this admittedly emotional topic with anyone here, either on these newsgroups or through email.  Perhaps we can all learn something. Thank you for your time, James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

–          The Blue Ridge Book Gallery      P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604       http://www.mercury.net/~wgwinter to view our ongoing auctions at Ebay, click below… http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=blue…

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[snip timster type nanner] not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate?

I promise that, when I see a hungry child working a pool, I’ll move on to the next one. Unless, of course, it is catch and release in which case I’ll have to report him if he’s eating<g. You and timbo have a real nice day. — Charlie…

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[deleted] desintigrate into another C&R tirade real quick.

[deleted] You mis-spelled elevate. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.  All you have to do is check out websites like the one linked below and you can see the devastating effect flyfishing is having on overall fish population statistics. http://www.livingplanet.org/seachange/fisheries/

Did you even read the webpage that you posted? or is this just a troll?  The page rightfully places the blame of overfishing on the supertrawlers and sights trouble spots mostly out in the open ocean. The advent of new and exciting technologies, like computer-designed flies and hooks, have made it possible for the novice to catch fish like the pros of old.

   #              ##   ###               #    #                 #          #####       #    #                 #   ###               #    #              ## Okay, that solves the mystery, you are trolling…… "…computer-designed flies…possible…to catch fish like the pros…" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Best laugh I’ve had all day, thanks,      - Ken — "Time is but the stream I go a-fishin in. I drink at it, but while I drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. It’s thin current slides away, but eternity remains."     – H.D. Thoreau

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You have many friends here.

Ha, ha.  LOL!  OK, I can tell that T-Bone isn’t interested in my discussion.  That’s fine, if I can change one mind, or even get someone to think about the problem, my post will not be in vain. James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

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Are you naked right now ? OBROFF:  Nude flyfishing is extremely hazardous, please practice it with utmost caution. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.  All you have to do is check out websites like the one linked below and you can see the devastating effect flyfishing is having on overall fish population statistics.  This is true for fish than aren’t even being caught for legitimate reasons (i.e., food), like the sharks! http://www.livingplanet.org/seachange/fisheries/

this website says nothing of flyfishing or even sportfishing for that matter.  maybe you should read it.  it’s about the worldwide fishing fleets (commercial you idiot) are devestating fish populations worldwide especially species such as tuna.  i’d think if you were going to post URL’s they ought to support your wacko beliefs.  please show where flyfishing has caused "the devestating effect… on overall fish population statistics."  c’mon, i dare you, you PETA twit.  you are a liar, plain and simple. I realize that flyfishing is tremendously popular, and in fact its popularity is growing in leaps and bounds.  The advent of new and exciting technologies, like computer-designed flies and hooks, have made it possible for the novice to catch fish like the pros of old.

have you tried to flyfish?  and how do computer generated hooks make newcomers fish as well as seasoned flyfishing veterans?  you again don’t know what the hell you are talking about. Why must this be the case?  Why must we sacrifice the pleasant and entirely natural life-cycle of an innocent fish for our own pleasure, not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate?

how does flyfishing take food off a hungry child’s plate?  maybe somebodies casting flies in third world countries snagging food off poor childen’s plates.  get over it.  if we eat a fish we catch, we are in fact leaving more food for your poor starving children campaign.  btw, you are probably against medical research using animals, so how dare you try to use children as a weapon against us.  your policies result in many dead children dying because researchers cannot cure diseases.  fuck you. Please, think about what I am saying.  This is a terribly important issue.  I am happy to discuss this admittedly emotional topic with anyone here, either on these newsgroups or through email.  Perhaps we can all learn something.

maybe you can get a friggin’ brain, you twit.  stop basing natural resource management on emotion, and use facts.  sportfishermen and hunters provide much more money to save and restore animals, fish, and ecosystems than you or your animal rights wacko buddies. Thank you for your time, James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

amateur is right.  you’re an idiot plain and simple.  you are misinformed on fishery issues.  try doing some reading, and not just PETAphile propoganda. good day you twit, chris

Response:

I looked at your map on that site, and it would seem to me that the areas that are shaded look lie areas of commercial fishing? I understand your worries, for I have them too. Keep hope in that the yuppie fad with fly fishing will die down and the true naturalists will prevail. I have many generations in my family that were avid field sportsmen, including hunters, but while I don’t condone the killing of animals for sport you must realize that people must be fed, and systems such as aqua culture will not provide enough product to feed the masses, what we need is control of the population and not the animals. Maybe we should start thinking about limiting people’s rights to breed? Andrew

Response:

You have many friends here. Ha, ha.  LOL!  OK, I can tell that T-Bone isn’t interested in my discussion.  That’s fine, if I can change one mind, or even get someone to think about the problem, my post will not be in vain. James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

except timbo’s allready in your camp, until he realizes that you wackos actually want to ban all fishing, all hunting, and all use of animals in any regard… regardless of whether a fishing releases or keeps his catch or does a little bit of both (that selective harvest thing). james allen andrews (professional idiot, amateur naturalist) wants all fishing to be banned… to hell with all that sportfishermen and the groups they join (TU, FFF, WA Trout, CA Trout, etc.) do to protect and restore fish populations worldwide. he is an enemy to restoring fish populations in the united states and the rest of the world.  he thinks that if we don’t kill a few fish everything will be allright. hey james, the real problems facing our fisheries are habitat destruction and commercial overharvest.  switch to facing those issues and your professional idiot title may disappear, and you might just make some sense. so long wacko, go eat some tofu, chris

Response:

If you want to discuss this with an OPEN mind in a gentlemanly open and exchange of ideas then email me for this group thread will probably desintigrate into another C&R tirade real quick.

Well, OK, but it seems civil so far.  Has this been a problem around here before?  And if you don’t mind, what’s C&R? If you’re trolling,

An ironic use of terms in this newsgroup!  No, I’m not trolling. I humbly interject that you are completely ignoring the relevant facts of evolution, the food chain, giving to much creedence to computer designs in fishing, and loosing sight of what some peoples idea of nature is all about.

I understand some people’s idea of nature is different than mine. I’ve stated mine (at least I hope I have), and am willing to listen to anyone who disputes the effects of flyfishing on the world’s fish population. Wayne *biologist turned accountant but very concerned about nature, regardless*

James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist (and still an engineer!)

Response:

Jim, I looked at the site you indicated. Where does it say anything about flyfishing? Not much thought in your weenieassed post.  Just because you mean well doesn’t mean you know anything. Show me any study, published anywhere, in any language, by anyone, that says flyfishing is responsible for the imminent extinction of any fish species and I will read it and discuss it with you. Until you can come up with even one lameassed bit of evidence, you are masterbating in public. Im sorry but as you mature you will run into many mean people like me who have limited patience with fools. Unless you are willing to put some learning effort into your interests, you may want to look for a more suitable avocation than "naturtalist" as an outlet for your need to share your ideas with others. Perhaps some areas where opinions are perfered over facts. A few suggestions are religion, politics, corrections, educational policy, folk dancing, Now the other part. If you post more of this crap in a fishing site I care about I will kill every third fish I catch in your name. I catch many fish in a year. You personally will be responsible for their deaths because you pestered me. Get it? Dave Snedeker I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.

SNIPPED REST OF DRIVEL

Response:

Question:

Hi All, A friend has asked me to build what is know as an AuSable river boat.  It is a flat bottom skiff type boat commonly used for fly fishing on the AuSable river here in Michigan.  It may be similar to an adirondack guide boat. If anyone can point me to resources that may help me sort this out such as websites, pics etc.  I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks, Craig "Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government"

Response:

OK Craig – you asked for it!!! are as goodat helping out as the people here (I know, some days I’m incredulous too ). Wait a minute! about anything boat related, like maybe skiff AND plans (or something). There are a gazillion books of plans — maybe not the AuSable river boat, but certainly something very much like it, and probably using modern construction techniques and materials.   For starters:  Build the New Instant Boats — Dynamite Payson                  American Small Sailing Craft — Howard Chapelle                  Forty Wooden Boats (also 30 and 50 wooden boats)                          by WoodenBoat Magazine http://www.woodenboat.com                  ANTYHING by WoodenBoat                  ANYTHING by Phil Bolger (Boats with an Open Mind is fun reading) Check out http://www.amazon.com for more books. No doubt someone else will jump in with really good advice, and I’ll bow to his/her superior knowledge. BTW – remember that boat building  (and all woodworking) is supposed to be fun.  For boats in particular, you can generally buy a ready-made boat cheaper than you can build one, so, if you do not WANT to build, and I mean really want to build, tell your friend to find something used and buy it. Have fun, and good luck with your search Rob (building a Sinepuxent skiff from Smithsonian plans) Weaver – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, A friend has asked me to build what is know as an AuSable river boat.  It is a flat bottom skiff type boat commonly used for fly fishing on the AuSable river here in Michigan.  It may be similar to an adirondack guide boat. If anyone can point me to resources that may help me sort this out such as websites, pics etc.  I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks, Craig "Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government"

Response:

Question:

I have been fishing the Red River below Denison Dam for some years now and can be quite sucessful when the generators are not "on" – discharging water. An average spring morning from 6am to 8am will produce 10 to 20 small stripers averaging 12" to18". Great on a 5 to 8wt. However during the spring, the water is normally being discharged due to spring rains and this is my problem. I have never been able to consistantly catch fish with the water flowing. Under these conditions I use a 10wt sinking tip line and all the normal flies that work with the the "water off". Bait fishing with live shad or minnows is normally great during this water flow so I would expect flyrodding to be the same,-but not for me. I have a boat designed especially for flyfishing the river which is quite safe and effective.

Response:

I have been fishing the Red River below Denison Dam for some years now and can be quite successful when the generators are "off" – not discharging water. An average spring morning from 6am to 8am will produce 10 to 20 small stripers averaging 12" to 18". Great on a 5 to 8wt. However during the spring, the water is normally being discharged due to spring rains and this is my problem. I have never been able to consistantly catch fish with the water flowing. Under these conditions I use a 10wt. with fast sinking tip line and all the flies that work with the water "off". Bait fishing with live shad or minnows is normally great during this type of water flow so I would expect flyrodding to be the same,-but not for me. I have a boat designed especially for flyfishing this river which is quite safe and effective. For a picture of the boat and my son see www.2ducks.com/boats.html Would be happy to take out some experienced flyrodders that can teach me the tricks of this particular aspect of flyfishing. ANY SUGGESTIONS would be appreciated. If you think it may be my fly selection, please let me know. I commonly use clousers of all colors, all sizes, some top water poppers. I have not been able to tie the large 8" flies, but the average striper caught is <20" so I would not think this is the problem. I am not a guide, just an avid sportsman living 5 miles from the dam. Can fish 2 – 3 flyrods out of the boat at a time so bring an experianced friend if you would like. I normally can fish from 5pm to sunset weekdays, Fridays 1pm to sunset, and all day on the weekends. If we don’t catch any fish you can buy my lunch at Burger King. Water temperature is 48 and rising and the floodgates are now open. Have private access to the river.

Response:

Question:

I am planning to attempt to build a 9′, 5 weight fly rod for myself this fall or winter.  My motivations are a) I’m too cheap to buy a new factory-made model; b) it seems like a neat thing to be able to do. But I need some advice, including: 1.  an good instruction book; 2.  what kind of rod blank, and where to buy it; 3.  where to buy other necessary parts & tools; Also, is this even a sensible, realistic thing to do?  I mean, will I have to buy a bunch of expensive tools?  I am reasonably patient and capable with tools, etc., but I am certainly no craftsman.  Can a normal human being build a fly rod?  How much time/money will it take? (I have more of the former).  Does anyone know of rodbuilding classes in the Denver, CO area? Tight Lines! Marshall

Response:

I am planning to attempt to build a 9′, 5 weight fly rod for myself this . . . Also, is this even a sensible, realistic thing to do?  I mean, will I to buy a bunch of expensive tools?  I am reasonably patient and capable with tools, etc., but I am certainly no craftsman.  Can a normal human

It’s really very simple, and requires no special tools, or instruction book beyond what the pamphlet you get free with a complete rod kit (e.g. from Orvis 25 years ago:  don’t know if they still sell kits.)  But there are good books, by Pfeiffer, Marshall and others. Your main question is where to buy, in person or by mail.  You are best off if you can buy a kit or all components and glues from a store you can visit in person, in which you have confidence.  If you have to buy by mail, you need to know brand-names e.g. whether a St. Croix or Sage blank best suits your budget and your personal fishing needs.  You need have no worry about whipping on guides, gluing handles etc. — anyone can do this, and it does not take long. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Question:

I’ve never fished the San Juan but hear its productive for bigger fish.   Whats the truth, where can you stay, what are the conditions like around September? Do you need a boat or can you gain access to the better spots on foot? –

Response:

says… I’ve never fished the San Juan but hear its productive for bigger fish.   Whats the truth, where can you stay, what are the conditions like around September? Do you need a boat or can you gain access to the better spots on foot? –

I am leaving tomorrow morning (8-15-95) to go to the San Juan for a few days.  I was originally trying for September but to no avail.  The water level should be at between 500-800 cfm and should make for some good fishing.  If you want, I will make a post when I return advising the conditions and where you might want to stay.  I understand there have been some recent changes their lately regarding hotels, restaurants, etc.  I’ll let you know what I find out. Just let me know.  I’ll do my best not to leave some fish that aren’t completely tired (yeah right)!! Tom Cavitt

Response:

I’ve never fished the San Juan but hear its productive for bigger fish.   Whats the truth, where can you stay, what are the conditions like around September? Do you need a boat or can you gain access to the better spots on foot? –

Give Gary Willmart a call.  He’s President of Colorado Fishing Adventures, Inc. and operates a guiding business on the San Juan River and other rivers and lakes around Pagosa Springs, CO.  His phone is (719) 598-5787 and his address is Colorado Fishing Adventures, Inc., 6421 Pulpit Rock Dr., Colorado Springs, CO  80918. Tell him Dave Baker referred you.  He’s good and really enjoys guiding folks. Abe’s Motel and Fly Shop (owned by Abe Chavez and family) is probably the most popular place right on the river.  I’ve stayed there and it’s nice, they are helpful, and the prices are in the right range.  I don’t have their phone number but check dir. asst. in the Farmington, Aztec, Navajo Reservoir areas. You can also find places in Farmington, NM; Durango, CO; Pagosa Springs, CO; Chama, NM; etc.   Check a map. Sept. conditions are usually excellent and there are lots of big fish. In fact, you probably won’t get many under 16".  Weather’s good, too. Air warm, water cold – bring heavy socks for wading (see below). The upper river, in the first mile or so below the dam, is for wading only – no boats.  That’s what we do and where Gary takes clients. River is wide with lots of places to fish.  Lots of people but you can find good places open because there are so many fish around all over. They are hard to get, though, if you don’t know the river and it’s kind of unique.  So get a guide for at least half a day to show you how to begin, what to look for. I’ve never taken a boat trip but below the wade fishing only area, they allow drift boats.  If that is your interest, talk to Tim Chavez (Abe’s son) who operates the Born ‘N Raised guide service with boats. Pay attention to some unique regulations designed to protect the fishery:  catch & release some places, one fish over 20" other places and you gotta quit fishing when you kill one, barbless hooks, no fishing directly downstream of yourself or someone else (often called the San Juan Shuffle because fish will congregate and pick up food in the trail of debris kicked up by someone wading), etc. Have fun!

Response:

I’ve heard that they bite drys a lot better in September, instead of the usual disco midges and San Jan worms that they ususally fish

Response:

Question:

It’s Friday at 3+ pm on th ewest coast and I just finished reading all my mail and catching up my newsgroups. I’m submitting this post because of an alarming trend I’ve noticed lately….you know, these 3 groups (alt.fishing, rec.outdoors.fishing, rec.outdoors.fishing.fly) seem to get POSTED TO MORE ON THE WEEKENDS than any of the others I’m involved with! I remember my Dad telling me when I was a kid "the reason you don’t catch any fish is your’re too busy fartin’ around instead of fishin’" Well ladies and gents, the same applies to the rest of you out there..fish at least for a coupla’ hours this weekend or teach some kid how to cast or tie a fly, tie a clinch, blood or surgeon’s knot or cast with a bait casting reel….BUT STAY OFF THE NET….the holes are too big, and the fish SLIPP rihght through…. My thoughts, I’m going to the Delta tonight for cats..wish me luck! Larry  #:)#

Response:

I had a boss once who was fond of saying you don’t catch any fish unless you have a line in the water.  The older I get, the wiser he sounds.

Response:

Larry!  I  thought you were coming up to Chico to catch some shad this weekend!  I’ve went out to the river Thursday  and  Friday nights to look for you — no Larry. Oh well.  Nothing lost.  Mike only caught 20 something shad on Thursday night, while I only caught in the teens… Friday was slower — I only caught 4 shad in the 45 minutes before darkness fell.  Some damned striper fisherman was hogging my hotspot fishing for them dumb critters, so I didn’t get as many  shad as I could have. He managed to catch a  13 inch rainbow on a striper hook with a piece of anchovy.  But no stripers.  Weirdest thing I ever saw.  (Well, not quite.) — Jim McElroy Calif. State Univ., Chico

Response:

I had a boss once who was fond of saying you don’t catch any fish unless you have a line in the water.  The older I get, the wiser he sounds.

He sounds pretty stupid to me.  You better have a lure or a hook and bait out there too.   Been plenty of times when all I had was a line in  the water and I never got a fish, not once. — Jim McElroy Calif. State Univ., Chico

Response:

Question:

Does anyone have a pattern recipe for that marvelous fly.  :-) I look in many book but was unable to find a pattern for the Griffith’s Gnat, only found the Black Gnat.

Randall Kaufmann’s Dry Fly Book has several variations. I simply use a peacock herl body and a palmered black hackle. When the spirit moves me, I put on a CDC or polywing single wing. -Dave

Response:

: Does anyone have a pattern recipe for that marvelous fly.  :-) I look in many : book but was unable to find a pattern for the Griffith’s Gnat, only found the : Black Gnat. : Au plaisir de vous lire, : Denis Lamy : Trois-Rivieres (Quebec, Canada) : ~~~ :  * VbReader 2.22 #67 * Il en nait un toutes les minutes. P.T.Barnum Bonjour, Le Griffiths gnat est tres simple… Ok, so my French is not up to speed, but basically you just tie on a body of peacock herl and then palmer the hackle (usually grizzly looks best) over the body.  Very easy fly, I think it is particularly effective with a slightly over-sized hackle. Regards

Response:

Hook 94840 16-22 Materials – peacock hurl, grizzley hackle attach hackle then hurl at bend of hook, close wrap hurl forward to head, palmer hackle through hurl, tie off and extremely small head. represents a midge orgy. gink it up and fish it as a dry, or fish it as an emerger.  Easy to tie fly that works when the midges are too small to match. I’ve used it successfully on South Platte, Green, San Juan, Big Horn, Frying Pan rivers, brookie streams and ponds, blue gill lakes and most other places I have fished Tight Lines Mark

Response:

Does anyone have a pattern recipe for that marvelous fly.  :-) I look in many book but was unable to find a pattern for the Griffith’s Gnat, only found the Black Gnat.

Simple: #16-22 fine wire dry fly hook black thread peacock herl body grizzly hackle (size 2X hook gape) – palmered through body /dave

Response:

This is from the Universal Fly Tying Guide by Dick Stewart, 2nd Edition (a nice book). HOOK – Standard dry fly; sizes 14 to 22 THREAD – Black TAIL – None BODY – Peacock herl WING – None HACKLE – Grizzly, wrapped over the herl body RIB – Fine gold wire (optional) COMMENT – This fly pattern has proved to be a very effective imitation of           small, dark midges. Good Luck! Jim Davis Philadelphia, PA Go Owls!

Response:

I saw a variation of the griffith’s gnat at a fly shop on the Bighorn River and it out fishes the traditional pattern.  To tie the griffith’s gnat ala Bighorn, palmer a brown hackle in with the grizzley hackle (like an adams).  Try it, you’ll like it. Kent Fishman

Response:

Does anyone have a pattern recipe for that marvelous fly.  :-) I look in many book but was unable to find a pattern for the Griffith’s Gnat, only found the Black Gnat. Randall Kaufmann’s Dry Fly Book has several variations. I simply use a peacock herl body and a palmered black hackle. When the spirit moves me, I put on a CDC or polywing single wing. -Dave

What is a griffiths gnat?

Response:

It is the Main Branch of the Swift River that is the tailwater of the Quabbin.  The east branch feeds into the reservoir about 6 miles north.

Whoops! You are correct, sir ;^) I oughta know better than that… /dave (Swift River Irregular) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <           "Read this and nobody gets hurt"           < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Response:

Hi,     I try to fish the G. Gnat with flotant applied only to the top of the fly.  This way it is half submurged.  But as you can see by all the replies there are so many ways.  Experiment.  Good luck…                                         …Steven

Response:

Hi,
    I try to fish the G. Gnat with flotant applied only to the top
of the fly.  This way it is half submurged.  But as you can see by
all the replies there are so many ways.  Experiment.  Good luck…
                                   …Steven

Trim the hackle off of the bottom of the G. Gnat with your tippet clipper when you want it to float lower. Looks like an emerger this way. Don’t put floatant on it at all. Looks like a nymph this way. Load it up with floatant. Looks like a mating ball of midges this way. Tie it with a red or yellow or green floss mid section. I call it a Royal Gnat. Fish it as an attractor. Instead of the standard peacock body, use different colored dubbing. Olive or brown is a real good producer for me. Believe it or not, blue bodied brown hackled G. Gnat have caught many fish when nothing else has. As you can tell, I fish the G. Gnat a lot, and have caught many fish with. It even works on carp, even though that’s not what I’m usually fishing for. This is one of the most versatile flies invented. Don’t go fishing without them. Darryl Hayashida

Response:

Grease the leader  and fish dead drift down stream. I like to clip the bottom hackle off letting the fly float lower in the water. I fish this in July and August.  Works good!!!! Dave Grand Rapids Mi.

Response:

Fish it dry, with a long leader. You will find the take very subtle. Works well at dusk which makes it very hard to see the take. Sometimes you’ll have to set the hook in reaction to the riseform, or even the sound of a slurp. Usually you’ll need a downstream drift, as the water will be quiet, and the trout finicky.

Response:

: I’ve also fished small (20-24) Griffith’s Gnats both dry and using the greased : leader technique. It’s a particularly deadly performer on the East Branch of : the Swift River (central Massachusetts) which is known for the tiny : still-water bugforms that spew from Quabbin Rsvr… It is the Main Branch of the Swift River that is the tailwater of the Quabbin.  The east branch feeds into the reservoir about 6 miles north.

Response:

I’ve also fished small (20-24) Griffith’s Gnats both dry and using the greased leader technique. It’s a particularly deadly performer on the East Branch of the Swift River (central Massachusetts) which is known for the tiny still-water bugforms that spew from Quabbin Rsvr… /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <           "Read this and nobody gets hurt"           < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Response:

Many times I have seen fish short rise to the gnat, or inspect and then reject it.  When this happens I tug the fly so that it breaks the surface and I then fish it immediately under the surface.  I have had many fish break me off because of the voracity of the strike. rfb

Response:

When I lived in Montana I used it strictly as a dry for Whitefish on the Big Hole.  It’s funny how you somtimes think a fly only works a particular way.  Now that I live in Alaska I use it for Grayling on the surface, just under the surface, mid-level, and on the bottom (although I’ve never weighted one).  Peacock herl is a Grayling slayer (pardon the term).  I remember one day last year where after 50 or so fish the hackle was unspun, so was most of the pecock herl, and the fly just slowly sank every time it landed.  It didn’t sink for long though.  A Grayling would inevitably snatch it up before it got too far.  After about 100 or so fish I sank it deep into my vest as a reminder that rules are ment to be broken.

Response:

writes: A stupid question:  I’ve read several posts here and books which refer
to Griffith’s gnat.  I can tie one – it’s dead simple, but how do you fish

this thing?  Dry?  Like a nymph with split shot?
— –Mark Camara
  Dept EPO Biology — CB 334
  U.Colorado, Boulder 80309

No it’s not a stupid question… I have had fairly good success fishing a Griffith’s Gnat both ways. The larger ones (14 or 16) work well as a nymph or wet fly, and the smaller ones work well as a dry fly. I guess the secret is to be able to recognize when to fish them wet or dry. Just as an aside, a few months ago I wrote about an incident which happened to me. My wife was fishing with me and decided to use an elk hair caddis. She didn’t know you were supposed to put floatant on it, and it got soggy and sank. She ended up catching more and bigger fish than everyone else that day. I guess the bottom line is don’t get locked into what the fly is supposed to do, experiment with it. You might surprise yourself. Darryl

Response:

: A stupid question:  I’ve read several posts here and books which refer : to Griffith’s gnat.  I can tie one – it’s dead simple, but how do you fish this thing?  Dry?  Like a nymph with split shot? : — : –Mark Camara Mark, I think the beauty of the griffiths gnat is that it can be fished in several different ways.  I have had the best luck with size 18-22 tied with slightly oversized hackles fished dry.  I think they represent small midges very well, but float a little better and are more visible. They can also be fished below the surface using a method similar to what you would use for a wooly bugger or wooly worm. I fished them dry up on the Poudre last fall and had fantastic success.   Darin

Response:

A stupid question:  I’ve read several posts here and books which refer to Griffith’s gnat.  I can tie one – it’s dead simple, but how do you fish this thing?  Dry?  Like a nymph with split shot? — –Mark Camara   Dept EPO Biology — CB 334   U.Colorado, Boulder 80309

Response:

Question:

Why they are fishing with a bamboo shaped rod and not with an original ??

Modern graphite rods can cast considerably farther than bamboo, and the long false-casts made the casting scenes more dramatic, especially to non-flyfisher folks. They are much better and softer than these plastic rods.

Thats a strong statement.   Fish and fishing-waters come in all shapes, sizes, and characteristics.   There is hardly one best rod. You can serve the fly much softer…

Nice when needed, but what about techniques that require hard presentations? Also (an example), many steelhead rivers in the pacific northwest are large and fast – soft presentations are a don’t care, but long casts with potentially large flies are very useful. … and for some special technics I don’t know the name in english (when you have to feel the bite …

Nymphing?   Hard or soft, don’t care.   Sensitive, do care! … or you want to lead the fly against the flow) …

Many "swinging" techniques including wet fly swings, greased-line, lifts, etc.  It’s very debatable whether soft or hard is better. In Germany most of the good fly-fisher are fishing with bamboo-rods. What is it in USA ??

Many serious fly fisherman I know own bamboo (often lots of), but most only use them for "mood" or nostalgic moments, usually accompanied by a pipe or cigar, and possibly some whisky. I certainly enjoyed casting three different bamboo rods, and have my sights on buying some bamboo, but right or wrong, am spoiled and won’t give up my graphite. Thomas Gilg

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Some technical things in the movie were done beautifully.  Powell made bamboo shaped graphite rods to look like the originals,  and even matched all of the rod decorations, windings, etc., and the special lines that would show up on film were spectacular.   Why they are fishing with a bamboo shaped rod and not with an original ??

The main reason seems to be that the original Montague 8 1/2" 4 1/2 oz bamboos are now very rare and *very* valuable.  In the movie they only used Montagues for close ups and for shots where they needed the slower action of the cane rod.  They did not want to break any rods when playing buckets full of rocks or even when fighting "Fernando", the model fish. Denbigh

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| They are much better and softer than these plastic rods. | | Thats a strong statement.   Fish and fishing-waters come in all shapes, | sizes, and characteristics.   There is hardly one best rod. | | You can serve the fly much softer… | | Nice when needed, but what about techniques that require hard presentations? | | Also (an example), many steelhead rivers in the pacific northwest are | large and fast – soft presentations are a don’t care, but long casts | with potentially large flies are very useful. Yes you are right. Here in Germany we dont’t have these large fast rivers and no steeelhaeds. We have small rivers with with good natural grayling and trout populations. So for this ‘fine’ fishing I think they are the best choice because of their soft and special action that you can’t reach with artificial rods. | | … and for some special technics I don’t know the name in english (when | you have to feel the bite … | | Nymphing?   Hard or soft, don’t care.   Sensitive, do care! Yes, it’s a kind of nymphing. | … or you want to lead the fly against the flow) … | | Many "swinging" techniques including wet fly swings, greased-line, | lifts, etc.  It’s very debatable whether soft or hard is better. For wet fly it’s O.K.. But I mean for dry fly you need a in your words ’sensitive’ (excuse my english) rod and a good technik to imitate a fly running up the stream. Otherwise your fly is diving like a submarine. | | In Germany most of the good fly-fisher are fishing with bamboo-rods. | What is it in USA ?? | | Many serious fly fisherman I know own bamboo (often lots of), but most | only use them for "mood" or nostalgic moments, usually accompanied by | a pipe or cigar, and possibly some whisky. | | I certainly enjoyed casting three different bamboo rods, and have my | sights on buying some bamboo, but right or wrong, am spoiled and won’t | give up my graphite. | | Thomas Gilg Sure it has something nostalgic, maybe I am nostalgic too. I think you will agree with me when I say flyfishing is more than a hi-tec sport and not only the facts make you (and me) to buy a bamboo rod. And as longer I fish it’s more the fish in the water which fascinates me than the fish in my bag. It’s like the last sentence in Sherley Mc Lanes roman. In German it’s "Ich werde von Wassern verfolgt.". In english it has to be something like this: "I am followed by waters."       Olaf <Olaf Lindner                      | Technical University of Berlin    

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etc. It’s like the last sentence in Sherley Mc Lanes roman. In German it’s "Ich werde von Wassern verfolgt.". In english it has to be something like this: "I am followed by waters."       Olaf

My soul cringes at the thought of Shirley McLane (sp?) writing about fly fishing.  A River Runs Through It was written by *Norman* Maclean. Shirley M. is a weird US actress with strong views on her previous lives; Norman M. was very different. Incidentally, in the original he wrote "haunted" not "followed." Denbigh

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Olaf Lindner writes: A friend of mine has 15 bamboo-rods, all made by Bjarne Fries probably the best bamboo-rod builder in the world each about 1200$.

Olaf if your friend had graphite instead of bamboo he could probable cover the same range of fishing situations with 6 to 8 rods at rather than 15.  Graphite has greater latitude.  He’d also have $12,000 to go to New Zealand.  I know where I’ll spend my money.

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| | Olaf if your friend had graphite instead of bamboo he could probable cover | the same range of fishing situations with 6 to 8 rods at rather than 15.   That’s true but the point is not the range of fishing situations than the specia l action of a well built split cane rod. I see that this is a very dificult theme and at the end a personal decision. | Graphite has greater latitude.  He’d also have $12,000 to go to New Zealand.  I know | where I’ll spend my money. Hope you have fun. Olaf (Excuse me about the mistake with the names ‘Sherley’ and ‘Norman’. I don’t know  who it (Sherley) is (I only heard the name sometimes in the TV) but it sounds t errible.) — <Olaf Lindner                      | Technical University of Berlin    

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Why they are fishing with a bamboo shaped rod and not with an original ??

Thomas J. Gilg’s response to Olaf Lindner is right on the mark.  The only thing I can add is that bamboo rod’s are wonderful for small eastern spring creeks with lot’s of brush overhead.  Maybe Olaf is faced with kind of situation.   One other thought is that not every bamboo rod is good.  I’ve cast lots of junk.  Good rods seem to start at around $1000 (new or old).  The collection craze has recently driven the price of bamboo rods out of sight good and bad.  I’ve seen people at shows pay +$400 for a machine made japanese piece of junk.  I just can’t justify paying +$1000 for a rod that for all it’s beauty will be out performed by a rod of 1/3 to 1/2 the price.

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Some technical things in the movie were done beautifully.  Powell made bamboo shaped graphite rods to look like the originals,  and even matched all of the rod decorations, windings, etc., and the special lines that would show up on film were spectacular.  

Why they are fishing with a bamboo shaped rod and not with an original ?? They are much better and softer than these plastic rods. I got my first Spilt Cane rod on a Fly-Fishing congress in Germany these Spring for 800,- DM (about 500$). A friend of mine has 15 bamboo-rods, all made by Bjarne Fries probably the best bamboo-rod builder in the world each about 1200$. O.K. I agree with you when you say that’s crazy but Most people who have fished with one of these rods they will never again take these plastics. You can serve the fly much softer and for some special technics I don’t know the name in english (when you have to feel the bite or you want to lead the fly against the flow) they are probably the best choice because they are so soft and have and have a very special action. In Germany most of the good fly-fisher are fishing with bamboo-rods. What is it in USA ?? Olaf — <Olaf Lindner                      | Technical University of Berlin    

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