Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Busted Three Forks Rod
This one looks nice, but I have not tried it yet; http://www.gerberblades.com/gerberlegendaryblades.html?07572 As I said, I use mine mainly for work. It has seen very heavy usage, and is still as good as new. The first couple of "leathermans" I tried, were nowhere near as robust. One thing I would advise anybody buying such a tool, is to buy a decent leather sheath for it. The cordura pouches don
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Mid-March fly-fishing in NY, VT, NH
Folks, I may be in the northeast the week of March 15, and was wondering if there are any sections of rivers, streams etc, in upstate NY, VT or NH that are open. If so, what can one expect this time of the year re streamflow, hatches, best patterns to use? Thanks for any info you can provide! Alex
Alex, There are many rivers that are legally open in Vermont. The question is whether they are open due to ice. Two good bets, weather dependent, are the Winooski River and Lewis Creek. Hatches are scant. Wooly buggers are your best bet, as well as other streamers. Brown stoneflies can be around if the spring is early. Stream flows are a coin toss from downright perrfect to flood to a July trickle depending on rain and snowfall. Good luck and I would be happy to answer any other questions you might have. Vermont Outdoors Magazine 2 Church Street Burlington, VT 05401 (802) 860-0003 Fax: (802) 860-0005 http://www.vermontoutdoors.com
Folks, I may be in the northeast the week of March 15, and was wondering if there are any sections of rivers, streams etc, in upstate NY, VT or NH that are open. If so, what can one expect this time of the year re streamflow, hatches, best patterns to use? Thanks for any info you can provide! Alex
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Flyfishing » Best lightweight stove
Have you guys ever considered building a fire? Oh, right, that destroys the environment. Ever tried building a fire above tree line? In a 60 knot gale? In a rainstorm? Inside a tent? In 4 ft. of snow? Besides, having cooked over an open wood fire many times I know how difficult it is to keep the heat properly regulated. No thank you.
Um, no, in such situations, I usually leave the cooking (well, it’s really just putting yak butter in the tea) to the Sherpas…..and yeah, the persnickedy heat regulation of my cooking appliance would be amongst my main concerns in such a circumstance, especially considering we started out fishing…. <G R
Probably overkill if it’s going to be used exclusively as a streamside water boiler that lives in your fishing vest, but you won’t have to go through many MSR Whisperlites to make it economical in the long run if you use it for backpacking too. Can’t understand the aversion to the Whisperlite so evident in this group. I’ve been using mine for two years without a hint of trouble. Great little stove in my opinion.
Five years on mine, great stove and a good price. - Ken — ET1 – Evil Twin #1 "Guilt replaced the fun" – ROFF-Tim "Ethical conduct is purely a personal thing, and the only arbiter of personal ethics is your own conscience." - Mike Connor
Can’t understand the aversion to the Whisperlite so evident in this group. I’ve been using mine for two years without a hint of trouble. Great little stove in my opinion. Five years on mine, great stove and a good price.
I’ve got four gripes with the MSR Whisperlite. 1) Reliability. Even with the cone shaped fuel filters on the intake tube it clogs too easily and once clogged it’s a pain to unclog. I’ve also had a priming cup fall off. MSR was real good about sending a replacement but that’s hardly any consolation 20 miles into the backcountry and in the middle of a trip. 2) Simmer. We sometimes like to do something besides just boil water. The Whisperlite has two settings, off and blow torch. 3) White gas. If you want to save weight and pack the stove in one of your pots that pot will always have a taste of white gas. 4) Wind. That cheesy aluminum contraption is close to useless and in a wind you could use up two days of fuel boiling up 1 liter of water. I’ve had 3 in 15 years, at $60 a stove I’ve spent $180 on MSR Whisperlites. — Ken Fortenberry
I’ve got four gripes with the MSR Whisperlite. 1) Reliability. Even with the cone shaped fuel filters on the intake tube it clogs too easily and once clogged it’s a pain to unclog. I’ve also had a priming cup fall off. MSR was real good about sending a replacement but that’s hardly any consolation 20 miles into the backcountry and in the middle of a trip.
My shakerjet has performed flawlessly, never clogged. 2) Simmer. We sometimes like to do something besides just boil water. The Whisperlite has two settings, off and blow torch.
Gotta admit, it takes a lot of practice, but with the right amount of pressure and adjustments you can get it to simmer, but yeah it’s not easy. 3) White gas. If you want to save weight and pack the stove in one of your pots that pot will always have a taste of white gas.
Haven’t noticed. 4) Wind. That cheesy aluminum contraption is close to useless and in a wind you could use up two days of fuel boiling up 1 liter of water.
Agreed, the aluminum is worthless. I usually build up a small stone or wood wall to block the wind when it’s a problem. It’s usually not much of a problem since I spend much of my time down on the forest floor. YMMV, - Ken — ET1 – Evil Twin #1 "Guilt replaced the fun" – ROFF-Tim "Ethical conduct is purely a personal thing, and the only arbiter of personal ethics is your own conscience." - Mike Connor
Ever tried building a fire above tree line? In a 60 knot gale? In a rainstorm? Inside a tent? In 4 ft. of snow? Besides, having cooked over an open wood fire many times I know how difficult it is to keep the heat properly regulated. No thank you. Um, no, in such situations, I usually leave the cooking (well, it’s really just putting yak butter in the tea) to the Sherpas…..and yeah, the persnickedy heat regulation of my cooking appliance would be amongst my main concerns in such a circumstance, especially considering we started out fishing….
LOL!
I really like the ‘gaz’ stoves. The cartridges are not compact, but they are inexpensive, very easy to light and use, and the fuel cannisters are cheap.
What he said. Also, there is no fuel to spill and, in the 270/470 series, you can change canisters before they run empty. Pizo ignition available. I gave up on the white gas/multi-fuel stoves a long time ago, even for extended backpacking trips. I can’t imagine anything easier for a quick trailside or streamside lunch… Cheers, -Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad mp3 songs: http://www.mp3.com/particlesalad
Been fairly partial to my coleman peak stoves for a while now, not that small and light but they will boil a quart of water for that streamside irish coffee way fast. Flyfish
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But now the best lightweight stove is available from Sierra Trading Post for $120. You’ve GOT to be kidding! Propane burner? Not in this lifetime Bubba!
In 1969, I bought a terrific little stove from REI, the "Enders Baby." Far superior, IMHO, to any other backpacking stove. Now, after 30 years, it needs a new part, but it seems to be no longer available. Does anyone know anything about parts for this stove? vince norris
I really like the ‘gaz’ stoves. The cartridges are not compact, but they are inexpensive, very easy to light and use, and the fuel cannisters are cheap. What he said. Also, there is no fuel to spill and, in the 270/470 series, you can change canisters before they run empty. Pizo ignition available. I gave up on the white gas/multi-fuel stoves a long time ago, even for extended backpacking trips. I can’t imagine anything easier for a quick trailside or streamside lunch…
Indeed, probably the only advantage to a white gas stove is its cold weather performance. I use an MSR Rapidfire gas-cartidge stove most of the year, but it begins to flag when the temperature is below 40, and it’s not practical below freezing–just about like the kind of fishing I do. DS
Been fairly partial to my coleman peak stoves for a while now, not that small and light but they will boil a quart of water for that streamside irish coffee way fast. Flyfish
Been using my coleman peak for over five years with no problems — can’t say the same for any of my previous stoves. On extended trips where weight and bulk are considerations, I use a Sierra stove. The thing works as advertised but really blackens the pots with soot. Yuck! It is a modern version of a hobo stove using a battery powered fan. No fuel to carry. If interested in a biased view go to http://yahi.csustan.edu/~gcrawfor/zip/zipstove.html (I agree with the site). The manufacturers site is http://www.gorp.com/zzstove/sierra.htm. Or you can get info on making a very cheap alcohol stove that works at http://www.idi.ntnu.no/~ttr/stove.html.
In recent years, I have really enjoyed using the GAZ propane/butane stoves. Mine has been extremely reliable, clean, simmers better than anything else, and couldn’t be simpler to use. You do need to shelter the stove from the wind. You can usually find the stove for about $20, cartridges are about $3. I started using this stove for bivies above timberline on climbs. I wanted a stove I KNEW was going to light without all the attendant problems and mess of white gas. It has never let me down. Ted – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got four gripes with the MSR Whisperlite. 1) Reliability. Even with the cone shaped fuel filters on the intake tube it clogs too easily and once clogged it’s a pain to unclog. I’ve also had a priming cup fall off. MSR was real good about sending a replacement but that’s hardly any consolation 20 miles into the backcountry and in the middle of a trip. 2) Simmer. We sometimes like to do something besides just boil water. The Whisperlite has two settings, off and blow torch. 3) White gas. If you want to save weight and pack the stove in one of your pots that pot will always have a taste of white gas. 4) Wind. That cheesy aluminum contraption is close to useless and in a wind you could use up two days of fuel boiling up 1 liter of water. I’ve had 3 in 15 years, at $60 a stove I’ve spent $180 on MSR Whisperlites. — Ken Fortenberry
Before you buy.
I’ve got four gripes with the MSR Whisperlite. 1) Reliability. Even with the cone shaped fuel filters on the intake tube it clogs too easily and once clogged it’s a pain to unclog. I’ve also had a priming cup fall off. MSR was real good about sending a replacement but that’s hardly any consolation 20 miles into the backcountry and in the middle of a trip. My shakerjet has performed flawlessly, never clogged.
Ditto. 2) Simmer. We sometimes like to do something besides just boil water. The Whisperlite has two settings, off and blow torch. Gotta admit, it takes a lot of practice, but with the right amount of pressure and adjustments you can get it to simmer, but yeah it’s not easy.
Definitely a pain in the ass. My only real gripe with this stove. 3) White gas. If you want to save weight and pack the stove in one of your pots that pot will always have a taste of white gas. Haven’t noticed.
Ditto 4) Wind. That cheesy aluminum contraption is close to useless and in a wind you could use up two days of fuel boiling up 1 liter of water. Agreed, the aluminum is worthless. I usually build up a small stone or wood wall to block the wind when it’s a problem. It’s usually not much of a problem since I spend much of my time down on the forest floor.
My newest cook pot (MSR) matches the diameter of the aluminum wind screen pretty precisely. Using this pot, I have no problems at all with the wind.
I really like the ‘gaz’ stoves. The cartridges are not compact, but they are inexpensive, very easy to light and use, and the fuel cannisters are cheap. — Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad mp3 songs: http://www.mp3.com/particlesalad
So is the Coleman Peak 1. Neither will fit in a vest, but will do just fine in a daypack. The peak 1 also has an integral fuel tank that will hold more than enough fuel for the day, or even an unplanned overnight, eliminating the need for a separate fuel bottle.
My best friend used to have a Peak 1 but eventually gave it up in favor of the smaller and lighter Whisperlite. the Coleman stove DID have better control though.
There was some discussion here lately about stoves that would fit in a vest and do a good job of boiling water for a streamside lunch. The best stove ever for this purpose is being discontinued and I don’t know why. I was reluctant to mention it before because frankly, it was quite pricey and Wayno would give me all sorts of shit for being a pretentious, yuppie spendthrift. But now the best lightweight stove is available from Sierra Trading Post for $120. Go to: http://www.sierratradingpost.com/ then do an Item Number Search on 64103. Highly recommended flyfishing or backpacking stove, IMHO. — Ken Fortenberry
There was some discussion here lately about stoves that would fit in a vest and do a good job of boiling water for a streamside lunch. The best stove ever for this purpose is being discontinued and I don’t know why.
All the suckers already have one? I was reluctant to mention it before because frankly, it was quite pricey and Wayno would give me all sorts of shit for being a <CUT
Well, in case Wayno too busy to point out the painful truth… A TWO HUNDRED DOLLAR VALVE??? Well, OK, it is now only a HUNDRED AND TWENTY DOLLAR valve. What are you, Cuz, a <PASTEpretentious, yuppie spendthrift? OPEC spends less on orbit valves….<G But now the best lightweight stove is available from Sierra Trading Post for $120. Go to: http://www.sierratradingpost.com/ then do an Item Number Search on 64103. Highly recommended flyfishing or backpacking stove, IMHO.
Well, at least it IS on sale, and it is a Primus, and it has a piezo igniter, (Sorry, I had some backed-up sarcasm from the buildup passing on the OED Gink definition earlier….) TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Ken Fortenberry
Well, it takes a little bit longer to boil water, but the Trangia Westwind alcohol stove is less than $20, and is quite small enough to fit in a vest.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There was some discussion here lately about stoves that would fit in a vest and do a good job of boiling water for a streamside lunch. The best stove ever for this purpose is being discontinued and I don’t know why. All the suckers already have one? I was reluctant to mention it before because frankly, it was quite pricey and Wayno would give me all sorts of shit for being a <CUT Well, in case Wayno too busy to point out the painful truth… A TWO HUNDRED DOLLAR VALVE??? Well, OK, it is now only a HUNDRED AND TWENTY DOLLAR valve. What are you, Cuz, a <PASTEpretentious, yuppie spendthrift? OPEC spends less on orbit valves….<G But now the best lightweight stove is available from Sierra Trading Post for $120. Go to: http://www.sierratradingpost.com/ then do an Item Number Search on 64103. Highly recommended flyfishing or backpacking stove, IMHO. Well, at least it IS on sale, and it is a Primus, and it has a piezo igniter, (Sorry, I had some backed-up sarcasm from the buildup passing on the OED Gink definition earlier….) TC, R — Ken Fortenberry
Well, it takes a little bit longer to boil water, but the Trangia Westwind alcohol stove is less than $20, and is quite small enough to fit in a vest.
Have you guys ever considered building a fire? Oh, right, that destroys the environment. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)
Second that – The Trangia is awesome. Highly recommended. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, it takes a little bit longer to boil water, but the Trangia Westwind alcohol stove is less than $20, and is quite small enough to fit in a vest.
Can’t understand the aversion to the Whisperlite so evident in this group. I’ve been using mine for two years without a hint of trouble. Great little stove in my opinion.
I’ve got it’s predecessor and it does the job for me too, FWIW. — Charlie…
Can’t understand the aversion to the Whisperlite so evident in this group. I’ve been using mine for two years without a hint of trouble. Great little stove in my opinion.
So is the Coleman Peak 1. Neither will fit in a vest, but will do just fine in a daypack. The peak 1 also has an integral fuel tank that will hold more than enough fuel for the day, or even an unplanned overnight, eliminating the need for a separate fuel bottle. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.
Have you guys ever considered building a fire? Oh, right, that destroys the environment.
Ever tried building a fire above tree line? In a 60 knot gale? In a rainstorm? Inside a tent? In 4 ft. of snow? Besides, having cooked over an open wood fire many times I know how difficult it is to keep the heat properly regulated. No thank you.
… A TWO HUNDRED DOLLAR VALVE??? …
A 4 ounce, titanium, $200 valve. Absolutely elegant in its simplicity and positively bomb proof for life. This stove has long been considered the creme de la creme of lightweight backpacking & mountaineering stoves. Probably overkill if it’s going to be used exclusively as a streamside water boiler that lives in your fishing vest, but you won’t have to go through many MSR Whisperlites to make it economical in the long run if you use it for backpacking too. — Ken Fortenberry
But now the best lightweight stove is available from Sierra Trading Post for $120.
You’ve GOT to be kidding! Propane burner? Not in this lifetime Bubba!
Probably overkill if it’s going to be used exclusively as a streamside water boiler that lives in your fishing vest, but you won’t have to go through many MSR Whisperlites to make it economical in the long run if you use it for backpacking too.
Can’t understand the aversion to the Whisperlite so evident in this group. I’ve been using mine for two years without a hint of trouble. Great little stove in my opinion.
Hey Tony, I’ve heard of these but never understood how they worked – where could I get one? thanks babob Do any of you on the other side of the Atlantic use volcano kettles (Kelly and similar)?
Tony Deacon
Hey Tony, I’ve heard of these but never understood how they worked – where could I get one?
Couldn’t find a URL, but: The Kelly Kettle Co Ltd Woolaway Chesterton Fields Farm Fosse Way Leamington Spa CV33 9JY England Tel/Fax Int. +44 (0)1926 651460 (leave out 0 if dialling from overseas) Tight Lines, Tony Deacon
Volcano kettles might be OK for Scottish Lochs, but open fires are generally prohibited by law on US western rivers during the dry season (fire hazards). I just bought a Primus PBS 2243 from a local REI-Coop sale. The whole stove stows away in a pouch about the size of my palm; Primus LP-gas canisters are available everywhere, including europe. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve read this thread with interest. I have one of the original MSR multi-fuel stoves that I bought 16 or 17 years ago. Great little stove, but damned expensive; the wind shield melted and I had some problems with blocked jets with some fuels. I think it now needs a pretty full service. Do any of you on the other side of the Atlantic use volcano kettles (Kelly and similar)? These are used by most of the gillies and anglers on the Irish lakes for the mandatory lunchtime brew. They consist of a simple aluminium water jacket. You stuff the chimney with twigs, bark; pine needles; twists of old newspaper, etc. and apply a match. It’s quite an efficient way to boil water, since much of the heat passes out through the water in the jacket, cf. up the flue. They are only for boiling water, but that seems to be all that most of you use a stove for. Cheap; simple; fuel efficient; last for years. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon
What he said. Also, there is no fuel to spill and, in the 270/470 series, you can change canisters before they run empty. Pizo ignition available. I gave up on the white gas/multi-fuel stoves a long time ago, even for extended backpacking trips. I can’t imagine anything easier for a quick trailside or streamside lunch… Cheers, -Mark
I can’t argue with that Mark but after 20 yrs with the same pack stove, (the original design out over 100 yrs ago) That would be the Optimus SVEA123R, might’ve been called something else way back then. I finally had to order the first part for my stove last week, seems the airline baggage handlers were doing a test-to-destruction on the little plastic ice chest it was packed in. The b*stards bent the windscreen so bad that it wouldn’t fit anymore. One week and 20 bucks later it is good as new. The folks who sent me the part also included a brochure for a Russian Army stove that is a perfect knockoff of the Optimus Hunter 8R, on sale in this country now for about 45 bucks. My Optimus rides always in my pickup, and most mornings on my delivery trips it makes my coffee to my taste, not some swill you find in a truck stop. Ok, call me picky…it’s never failed me and as a result ‘we’ have developed a burning relationship. 
) Frank (fire in the hole) Church —– Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web —– —– http://newsone.net/ — Discussions on every subject. —– NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam. If this or other posts
Hi again, Frank & Group! What he said. Also, there is no fuel to spill and, in the 270/470 series, you can change canisters before they run empty. Pizo ignition available. I gave up on the white gas/multi-fuel stoves a long time ago, even for extended backpacking trips. I can’t imagine anything easier for a quick trailside or streamside lunch… Cheers, -Mark I can’t argue with that Mark but after 20 yrs with the same pack stove, (the original design out over 100 yrs ago) That would be the Optimus SVEA123R,
might’ve been called something else way back then. I finally had to order
As far as I know, its always been the Svea 123. Did Optimus buy them out I wonder? the first part for my stove last week, seems the airline baggage handlers were doing a test-to-destruction on the little plastic ice chest it was packed in. The b*stards bent the windscreen so bad that it wouldn’t fit anymore. One week and 20 bucks later it is good as new. The folks who sent me the part also included a brochure for a Russian Army stove that is a perfect knockoff of the Optimus Hunter 8R, on sale in this country now for
You know, the Optimus 8R is the first backpacking stove I owned. I put a lot ‘o miles on that little puppy. In the end, I gave it to my Brother-in-law when I got my first GAZ stove. As far as I know, he is still using it. the fact that there are still Svea 123 stoves out there in use is excellent testament to their durability. Yup, the reason I switched to GAZ stoves, (and lanterns), is ease of use and absence of white gas to spill. One of the problems I experienced with white gas stoves had to do with gas being expanded out of the fuel tank and/or fuel bottle due to changes in altitude: I would fill up stove and fuel bottles at my home, (sea level), and then drive up a trailhead at 7 or 8 thousand feet and _then_ start hiking up from there. Often, fuel would be foreced out of the stove tank or fuel bottle, leaving me with much less fuel than I planned on _and_ getting white gas fumes and some liquid in my backpack…. I don’t do much backpacking in sub freezing temperatures any more, but the new butane/propane fuel mixture seems to work well in cool mornings at altitude. (The old trick was to put the fuel canister in your sleeping bag to keep it warm. I never did this.) **Important recycling note**: My local recycler accepts my used fuel canisters for recycling. I’m not sure that all recycling centers will. If you plan on using GAZ products a lot, this recycling issue may be important to you. If I couldn’t recycle GAZ fuel tanks, I probably wouldn’t use them myself….YMMV. about 45 bucks. My Optimus rides always in my pickup, and most mornings on my delivery trips it makes my coffee to my taste, not some swill you find in a truck stop. Ok, call me picky…it’s never failed me and as a result ‘we’ have developed a burning relationship. )
Always nice to have something you can warm up to! :-) Frank (fire in the hole) Church
Cheers, happy trials, tight lines, and hot coffee! -Mark
I’ve read this thread with interest. I have one of the original MSR multi-fuel stoves that I bought 16 or 17 years ago. Great little stove, but damned expensive; the wind shield melted and I had some problems with blocked jets with some fuels. I think it now needs a pretty full service. Do any of you on the other side of the Atlantic use volcano kettles (Kelly and similar)? These are used by most of the gillies and anglers on the Irish lakes for the mandatory lunchtime brew. They consist of a simple aluminium water jacket. You stuff the chimney with twigs, bark; pine needles; twists of old newspaper, etc. and apply a match. It’s quite an efficient way to boil water, since much of the heat passes out through the water in the jacket, cf. up the flue. They are only for boiling water, but that seems to be all that most of you use a stove for. Cheap; simple; fuel efficient; last for years. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » The Deschuttes…WOW
return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead". (I might actually try that.)
Joe please do not ever see how many hits you get about bluegill. Most respectfuly requested. Big Dale
Dejanews is a service which stores and indexes most if not all all usenet posts. Incredible, come to think of it. If you ever goof up in here, it won’t be forgotten.. Altavista has a Usenet search enigine too, I haven’t really compared it with the Deja service yet. Herman, having one or two unpleasant memories in the archives.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where is deja.news and how do you access it? I’d be willing to bet that a deja news search of ROFF will return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead". (I might actually try that.) I was wrong. (There’s something you won’t hear often here, Brian.) "Steelhead" appeared in 1,095 posts in the last 12 months; while I had to allow "malt" as well as "scotch" to bring that total up to a creditable, if distant, 495. (It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?) Joe F.
– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher
Hello all, I am new to this group. I just found it the other day, and I have been very impressed by the courtesy and information found here (unlike a lot of Usenet). I have recently moved to Vancouver WA (just across the Columbia from Portland) from Wisconsin to follow my wife (good idea). Over the past several years, my father-in-law has made sure that I got out here to fish the Deschuttes with him. Until I walked in that water, I had not know true trout. We would put in at Trout Creek and take out 4 days later at Harpham Flats. Normally we went during the salmon fly hatch (it is quite a thing having a "Redsides" take such a big bug). Needless to say, now that we have moved here, we have done a lot more fishing and my wife has wished a pox on the two of us for how much we are spending! To the point – On Sept. 24th, I am returning the favor and taking her father on the Deschuttes for a 4 day Steelhead trip. I have never fished for them before, and I am very excited. Any advice you all have would be greatly appreciated. I already made the mistake (sort of – I got some great gear) of going to Kaufman’s and saying "I am going Steelhead fishing…what do I need?" $1200 later I was out the door and ready for action (since I don’t drink I have to spend the money somewhere). Anyway, now that I have spewed all over this message, I would like to thank in advance for your help, and advice. Brian Blazer http://www.blazertechnologies.com
I am new to this group. I just found it the other day, and I have been very impressed by the courtesy and information found here <snip
Damn, are we doing that again? Welcome aboard, although we’re going to have to work on that not drinking thing. I’d be willing to bet that a deja news search of ROFF will return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead". (I might actually try that.) Seriously though, welcome. Thicken your skin and jump in. It ain’t always that cordial; but it’s always fun. Joe F.
Where is deja.news and how do you access it?
Deja News is at www.deja.com; but it’s easier to get specific answers if you use their "power search" at www.deja.com/home_ps.shtml. Joe F.
Why do you persist in omitting "meniscus"? Besides, I said a few minutes, not a few days. :-)
meniscus? What means?
Why do you persist in omitting "meniscus"? Besides, I said a few minutes, not a few days. :-) meniscus? What means?
You know, that interface between the beer and the foam. Recently mentioned in a remarkable 110 posts. Joe F.
meniscus? What means? You know, that interface between the beer and the foam. Recently mentioned in a remarkable 110 posts.
Mmmmmmm, BEER! Now you’re speaking my language. 110 posts, really? Wow, makes me feel like an influential guy. Anybody care to define fly?
Mmmmmmm, BEER! Now you’re speaking my language. 110 posts, really? Wow, makes me feel like an influential guy. Anybody care to define fly?
Sure. It’s what men think with. :-) Joe F.
To the point – On Sept. 24th, I am returning the favor and taking her father on the Deschuttes for a 4 day Steelhead trip. I have never fished for them before, and I am very excited. Any advice you all have would be greatly appreciated. Anyway, now that I have spewed all over this message, I would like to thank in advance for your help, and advice. Brian Blazer http://www.blazertechnologies.com
Brian, The Deschutes is spelled like what I wrote. It sounds like the folks at Kaffmans got you all set up. Your guide will do the rest with the type of fly’s that you should use. If I only had one fly and was going to the Deschutes I would have a Frieght Train tied on to the leader. Be sure to use a wading staff for you and your dad, it will save your butt from falling in so many times. But when you do fall in keep your feet pointing down river, that will save your life. Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …..(It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?) If you’ve got a few more minutes Joe please try: bastard loon PETA dam C&R C&K If you STILL have time on your hands I’ll try to come up with a more comprehensive list!
Why do you persist in omitting "meniscus"? Besides, I said a few minutes, not a few days. :-) Joe F.
I’d be willing to bet that a deja news search of ROFF will return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead". (I might actually try that.)
I was wrong. (There’s something you won’t hear often here, Brian.) "Steelhead" appeared in 1,095 posts in the last 12 months; while I had to allow "malt" as well as "scotch" to bring that total up to a creditable, if distant, 495. (It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?) Joe F.
I’d be willing to bet that a deja news search of ROFF will return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead". (I might actually try that.) I was wrong. (There’s something you won’t hear often here, Brian.) "Steelhead" appeared in 1,095 posts in the last 12 months; while I had to allow "malt" as well as "scotch" to bring that total up to a creditable, if distant, 495. (It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?) Joe F.
Thanks for the welcome… Maybe there are more posts about steelhead because of the few posts about scotch? Or maybe the quantity of steelhead posts are because of the ammount of scotch? Brian http://www.blazertechnologies.com
…..(It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?)
If you’ve got a few more minutes Joe please try: bastard loon PETA dam C&R C&K If you STILL have time on your hands I’ll try to come up with a more comprehensive list!
Where is deja.news and how do you access it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d be willing to bet that a deja news search of ROFF will return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead". (I might actually try that.) I was wrong. (There’s something you won’t hear often here, Brian.) "Steelhead" appeared in 1,095 posts in the last 12 months; while I had to allow "malt" as well as "scotch" to bring that total up to a creditable, if distant, 495. (It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?) Joe F.
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Scottish Update
That’s real interesting!
but don’t come for the atlantic salmon fishing – the spring season as reported in April Trout and Salmon mag. has been generally very poor with few fish caught, and a lot of excuses (none of which conceal the awful truth of a near collapse of Atlantic Salmon stocks. Read Fly Fisherman current issue…….tight lines elsewhere guys
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » HSUS bankrolls anti-hunting initiatives
: I came across something at the Americas for Medical Progress web site you <clip<clip<clip : has since been taken over by animal "rights" types. : For more info, see http://www.ampef.org/hsus.htm : "The HSUS bankrolled ballot initiatives in six states in the fall of : 1996, ostensibly aimed at hunters in Oregon, California, Washington : state, Michigan, Idaho and Massachusetts. The real goal behind each : campaign is to remove wildlife and habitat policies from the professional : stewardship of state wildlife managers. : Americans for Medical Progress, the key national research advocacy group : that monitors the animal rights agenda, predicted the HSUS ballot <clip<clip<clip : and laboratory animal issues and other issues that are appropriate" in the : future."… There was an initiative here in Michigan this last election dealing with the taking of bear over bait or with hounds. The initiative would have banned both practices. When I found out what was behind this initiative, it became clear to me it was nothing more than an anti-hunting measure. The person behind getting it on the ballot claimed it would help bear hunting because it would license more hunters to get the same harvest. Well, it would also have banned bear hunting during anytime in which baiting for any other specie was allowed. Since we have a deer season that runs from October first to the end of of December, there wouldn’t really be any time to have a bear season. There were a couple of other issues that indicated to me that this whole thing was vacant of anything substantive and was just an anti-hunting measure. Fortunately, it was defeated *SOUNDLY* and another measure passed that gives wildlife management to the professionals. PETA and apparently HSUS supported the initiative. Kind regards, Steve Kernosky Michigan Tech University
My decision not to hunt is based solely on the fact that it doesn’t really appeal to me. I don’t view hunting as any worse or better than fishing which I love. I voted in favor of this initiative just as I would vote to prohibit snagging of fish if it weren’t already illegal.
In my view of the universe, the achilles heel of this legislation is in the fact that it takes "wildlife management" out of the hands of the professionals (ie. Departments of Fish and Game/Wildlife [admittedly an arguable statement, but certainly not improved upon by asking Joe/ Jane-weaned-on-Disney-Classics to take up this responsibility]). Why do we believe that Fish and Game managers allow detrimental (some would claim "cruel’) practices to continue despite convincing evidence "that even a layman can understand"? Could it be that the issue is more complex than we appreciate? Let the wildlife management community do their job. We should be able to make input into the decision making process. But, let’s not take the decision making out of the hands of the trained professionals until they give us cause. Clearly, with 27 ballot initiatives on the Oregon ballet this year, the initiative process is being abused. I always ask myself– "Is this a matter that requires a change to the state constitution, with all the attendant costs, to address the issue?" The answer is usually, "No". I guess it goes back to the thread about big government vs. individual responsibility. But, in reverse! Now were talking about big government (ie. the voting owners of the government) trying to dictate how the little wildlife management community (probably a government agency working with state schools) carries out its responsibilities. Life is weird when you’re left-handed! Charley
First of all, I actually read the initiative. Unfortunately I don’t have a copy here in front of me, so this is from memory. One of the local papers had an editorial slamming the initiative because it didn’t "Outlaw" the practices, just made them illegal for common folk. The text of the initiative stated (not a quote, but the gist) that Wildlife agents or their assigns could use bait or hounds to hunt down and kill problem bears. Read "bears that are annoying people". Sort of gives the lie to the idea that the practices are just tooooo barbaric and unfair. It stated that bait could be used to attract bears for "research purposes," whatever that means. (But I thought that we didn’t want the bears to get used to people feeding them…) Anyone who has ever hunted bear in Western Washington brush knows that the traditional method of controlling bear numbers (sport hunting) just went out the window. Incidental kills simply will not keep pace with population growth. Ain’t no way you’re going to be able to target an area and reduce the bear population without resorting to bait and/or hounds. Well, maybe poisoned poodles……no wait, that’s bait…… Of course we could mount a multimillion dollar campaign to supply the bruins with condoms. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK. I’ve no clue why, but I’ll take the bait. The initiative made it illegal to take bears using bait and/or hounds. Would you care to tell us where in the hell "Govt. agents", "researchers", and "AR Activists" are using bait and/or hounds to kill bears? Further, if you can actually cite a real and documented example, then tell us when and why it happened. -tgades
For what it is worth. THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations.
In Colorado, we can no longer hunt spring bears, unless they’re gay. TimW (Stolen from a cartoon which lampooned the Amendment 2 passing the popular vote)
< snip "The HSUS bankrolled ballot initiatives in six states in the fall of 1996, ostensibly aimed at hunters in Oregon, California, Washington state, Michigan, Idaho and Massachusetts.
Hi Jim, The Washington State initiative is the only one I know about. It only prohibits bear baiting and hound hunting for cougars. I don’t hunt but "some of my best friends . . .". Many hunters supported the initiative but the anti crowd used wild and false statements (along the lines of "they wanna take away your right to hunt, they wanna take away your way of life") in their attempt to defeat the initiative. Fortunately, the public saw through their BS and passed it. My decision not to hunt is based solely on the fact that it doesn’t really appeal to me. I don’t view hunting as any worse or better than fishing which I love. I voted in favor of this initiative just as I would vote to prohibit snagging of fish if it weren’t already illegal. August Kristoferson Watercolor Fish Art http://www.eskimo.com/~augustk
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: AM Construction In fact, the initiative did not outlaw baiting or hound hunting for bear. It just made it illegal for sport hunters to use these techniques. It’s perfectly OK for govt. employees and "researchers" and presumably AR activists to use bait to attract bears. Govt. agents are still allowed to use bait and hounds to kill bears. Seems like it’s only cruel and barbaric to use hounds or bait if you do it for sport, and it generates revenues. Steve
OK. I’ve no clue why, but I’ll take the bait. The initiative made it illegal to take bears using bait and/or hounds. Would you care to tell us where in the hell "Govt. agents", "researchers", and "AR Activists" are using bait and/or hounds to kill bears? Further, if you can actually cite a real and documented example, then tell us when and why it happened. -tgades
For what it is worth. THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations. In Colorado, we can no longer hunt spring bears, unless they’re gay. TimW (Stolen from a cartoon which lampooned the Amendment 2 passing the popular vote)
And don’t get caught with a trap. I hear that the next election, they are going after using hooks on fish. Paul
In fact, the initiative did not outlaw baiting or hound hunting for bear. It just made it illegal for sport hunters to use these techniques. It’s perfectly OK for govt. employees and "researchers" and presumably AR activists to use bait to attract bears. Govt. agents are still allowed to use bait and hounds to kill bears. Seems like it’s only cruel and barbaric to use hounds or bait if you do it for sport, and it generates revenues. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I came across something at the Americas for Medical Progress web site you might find interesting. BTW, HSUS is an acronym for the Humane Society of the United States. It used to be an animal welfare organization but it has since been taken over by animal "rights" types. For more info, see http://www.ampef.org/hsus.htm "The HSUS bankrolled ballot initiatives in six states in the fall of 1996, ostensibly aimed at hunters in Oregon, California, Washington state, Michigan, Idaho and Massachusetts. The real goal behind each campaign is to remove wildlife and habitat policies from the professional stewardship of state wildlife managers. For what it is worth. THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations. It was hardly a radical animal rights initiative as is implied above. THe Oregon initiative was an attempt to reverse an earlier decision to outlaw the practice in that state. It failed. cheers, -tgades
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For what it is worth. THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations. It was hardly a radical animal rights initiative as is implied above. THe Oregon initiative was an attempt to reverse an earlier decision to outlaw the practice in that state. It failed. cheers, -tgades tgades, Where have you been? Any animal rights initiative is RADICAL! It’s a well-known fact among sportsmen that the ARA’s modus operandi is "divide and conquer". They attack minorities (bear-baiters, Salmon snaggers) within the hunting and fishing sports, hoping that other hunters/fishers won’t care because it’s not "their" type of hunting/fishing. Attitudes like yours ensure that the ARA’s tactics work! Todd
The other method they use is to create paranoia through undercover fanatical defenders of the insane under the guise of "I’m just sticking up for the minorities no matter how ludicress it sounds". Scully and Mulder will expose your devious plot. You don’t fool me! Mike
For what it is worth. THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations. It was hardly a radical animal rights initiative as is implied above. THe Oregon initiative was an attempt to reverse an earlier decision to outlaw the practice in that state. It failed. cheers, -tgades
tgades, Where have you been? Any animal rights initiative is RADICAL! It’s a well-known fact among sportsmen that the ARA’s modus operandi is "divide and conquer". They attack minorities (bear-baiters, Salmon snaggers) within the hunting and fishing sports, hoping that other hunters/fishers won’t care because it’s not "their" type of hunting/fishing. Attitudes like yours ensure that the ARA’s tactics work! Todd
I came across something at the Americas for Medical Progress web site you might find interesting. BTW, HSUS is an acronym for the Humane Society of the United States. It used to be an animal welfare organization but it has since been taken over by animal "rights" types. For more info, see http://www.ampef.org/hsus.htm "The HSUS bankrolled ballot initiatives in six states in the fall of 1996, ostensibly aimed at hunters in Oregon, California, Washington state, Michigan, Idaho and Massachusetts. The real goal behind each campaign is to remove wildlife and habitat policies from the professional stewardship of state wildlife managers.
For what it is worth. THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations. It was hardly a radical animal rights initiative as is implied above. THe Oregon initiative was an attempt to reverse an earlier decision to outlaw the practice in that state. It failed. cheers, -tgades
For what it is worth. THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations. It was hardly a radical animal rights initiative as is implied above. THe Oregon initiative was an attempt to reverse an earlier decision to outlaw the practice in that state. It failed. cheers, -tgades
You might want to re-read the the ballot question carefully. Question 1 in Massachusetts was advertised to outlaw the use of spring traps in the state. At the End of the lengthy ballot question it also read that the laws are to be changed to allow non sportsman(AKA ARA’s) to serve on the board that governs hunting and fishing in this state. Unfortunatly all the TV ads showed thirty year old footage of animals including household pets caught in the traps with no mention of the second part of the question and question 1 passed by a 3-2 margin. Hopefully this can be changed before the ARA’s take over the board and try to ban hunting and fishing in this state.(Don’t think it can’t happen!!)
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » River Fly Fishing » GOLD MINE WILL RUIN MONTANA RIVERS
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has <snip has never mined gold in the United States. Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts. Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time. Actually a mining engineer told me that cyanide is so reactive with carbon compounds, that it is totally absorbed very quickly in a river bed. Oh sure its toxic, but it doesn’t last long or travel far. In 1991 the Summitville Mine in Colorado spilled cyanide and heavy metals into the Alamosa River, killing all aquatic life in a 19 mile stretch. This was after assurances were given when the mine opened that "state of the art" pollution controls were being used. There is a 120 mile section of the Clark Fork River in NW Montana that is a Superfund site because of mining pollution. Dams and ponds do nothing when you have torrential rains and flooding, causing the cyanide and heavy metal solution to overflow, which has happened at a number of mining sites.
The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has <snip has never mined gold in the United States. Wrong. Copper mining in leach pits is very similar to gold mining. Phelps Dodge removes huge quantities of gold from its copper operations.
Yes, but this is the first ever "gold" mining venture, in which gold is the primary objective. Of course they have removed gold from copper operations, but they were not "gold" mining. Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts. Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time. Yes, cyanide is highly toxic, but please explain the statement regarding MOST mines leaking cyanide into nearby streams. While it is true that there have been cyanide leaks, the word MOST is very misleading. Some specific numbers would be quite interesting to see. And cyanide does not persist for a long time. Shawn This statement is also true. Mines that have used the heap-leach method
use impoundment dams that collect the waste cyanide. The dams are lined with polyurethane liners that are as thick as a nickel. In addition, the ore piles are put on top of polyurethane sheets which are supposed to keep the cyanide out of groundwater. Every major Montana mine; and large mining companies are the primary users of cyanide-leaching has been cited for some type of water quality violation, most of which are related to cyanide leakage. The liners are often the reason for the leak; holes, tears, seam leakage. Rain storms have been a cause also, as they have filled up waste reservoirs and caused them to overflow. If cyanide gets into groundwater, it gets into streams. A large enough cyanide spill, or consistent leakage can persist for a long time in streams and rivers. Usually, by the time groundwater leakage of cyanide is detected by the EPA or the Montana Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ), because mining companies are not likely to report, or even know about many of these leaks, they have already done their damage. Aquatic life is much more sensitive to cyanide in lesser amounts than non aquatic life. Shawn, keep in mind that the mining industry in Montana may be different from the industry in other states. Our water quality laws are much more lenient than many places, thus, it is important to pass I-122. Our past mining history shows that. If you have any questions about the record regarding cyanide leakage, just contact the Montana Environmental Information Center, who’s address is in my original letter. Or better yet, come to Montana sometime and see the destruction left in the place where a mountain was before, and fish the rivers that once had fish! Craig
The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has <snip has never mined gold in the United States. Wrong. Copper mining in leach pits is very similar to gold mining. Phelps Dodge removes huge quantities of gold from its copper operations. Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts. Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time.
Yes, cyanide is highly toxic, but please explain the statement regarding MOST mines leaking cyanide into nearby streams. While it is true that there have been cyanide leaks, the word MOST is very misleading. Some specific numbers would be quite interesting to see. And cyanide does not persist for a long time. Shawn
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has <snip has never mined gold in the United States. Wrong. Copper mining in leach pits is very similar to gold mining. Phelps Dodge removes huge quantities of gold from its copper operations. Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts. Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time. Actually a mining engineer told me that cyanide is so reactive with carbon compounds, that it is totally absorbed very quickly in a river bed. Oh sure its toxic, but it doesn’t last long or travel far. I understand how you feel about this, but these mining operations are not as slip shod as you suggest. Phelps Dodge uses a closed recycling leach method where the leached metal ions are first removed by electrowining, then the water solution is pumped back onto the leach pile. Dams and pond liners prevent the escape of valuable fluids.
In 1991 the Summitville Mine in Colorado spilled cyanide and heavy metals into the Alamosa River, killing all aquatic life in a 19 mile stretch. This was after assurances were given when the mine opened that "state of the art" pollution controls were being used. There is a 120 mile section of the Clark Fork River in NW Montana that is a Superfund site because of mining pollution. Dams and ponds do nothing when you have torrential rains and flooding, causing the cyanide and heavy metal solution to overflow, which has happened at a number of mining sites.
Dams and pondliners prevent the escape of valuable fluids.
Right. And when (not if) those liners fail: 100 years, 500 years, even 2000 years if wer’e really lucky, the entire area becomes a superfund site. Note that the acid leaches lots of heavy metals, highly toxic, *other* than gold, which poison the ground and the water supply. – - – the cyanide is not the major problem! it’s the leached metals – - – which Jim won’t discuss I suppose Jim is gonna claim that the damn $1.83 per acre will pay for the impossible clean-up, like it has in Colarado? Jim, exactly how would you clean up those Colorado acid leach sites ??? – - – Funny thing these ‘white people’: They see a mountain, all they want to do is blow it into a pile of acid leaching crap (note the acid leached a lot of *really* poisonous heavy metals). For a few pounds of shiny yellow metal, which they’ve already got more of in Fort Knox than they can do anything productive or pretty with. Then these ‘white people’ take the money, declare the company bankrupt, and skip town… all the time whining about how we are interfering with ‘their west’. If this is an excuse to make them rich at taxpayer expense, lets just bring back welfare and GIVE them the damn money *not* to totally fuck up the place. Let ‘em sit at home and watch TV. I’ve seen enough hard rock mining shit to care a lot about this… I’m not sorry about the language.
The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has
<snip has never mined gold in the United States. Wrong. Copper mining in leach pits is very similar to gold mining. Phelps Dodge removes huge quantities of gold from its copper operations. Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts. Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time.
Actually a mining engineer told me that cyanide is so reactive with carbon compounds, that it is totally absorbed very quickly in a river bed. Oh sure its toxic, but it doesn’t last long or travel far. I understand how you feel about this, but these mining operations are not as slip shod as you suggest. Phelps Dodge uses a closed recycling leach method where the leached metal ions are first removed by electrowining, then the water solution is pumped back onto the leach pile. Dams and pond liners prevent the escape of valuable fluids. Jim
BIG INDUSTRY GOLD MINE WILL RUIN MONTANA RIVER The Blackfoot River, which has flowed clean and cold in Montana from its headwaters near the continental divide for thousands of years is now being threatened by a huge open-pit cyanide heap-leach mine. The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp. and Canyon Resources Inc. – the Seven-Up Pete Joint Venture, wants to mine the river’s headwaters for gold. The mine site, including 172 million pounds of cyanide, which will be poured over 980 million tons of removed ore from the mountain will sit just 1/4 mile from the Blackfoot River. (The Blackfoot River, by the way was recently made famous by Norman Maclean in his novel "A River Runs Through It".) To get at the gold, buried 1,200 feet underground in trace amounts, the mining company will have to dismantle two pine-covered buttes, and for each ton of ore, the miners will recover 0.02 ounces of gold. The remaining pit, more than a mile across and deep enough to hide the Washington Monument will collect groundwater which will be contaminated with heavy metals, and will have to be pumped out at the rate of 15.8 million gallons a day. In Butte Montana, the Berkely Pit copper mine, which is no longer in operation has a similar sized hole. The pit is filling up with water, and officials have no way to get rid of the Carcinogen’s, toxins or metals in it, which have already leaked into the water table of the town of Butte. The mines copper smelter, the Anaconda Smelter has dumped tons of waste sediment into the Clark Fork River which has already caused several fish-kills, and water quality problems in my town, Missoula MT. The Blackfoot River feeds into the Clark Fork to the East, before it flows into Missoula, which means that a spill or leak of cyanide or heavy metals into the Blackfoot, would also terminally harm the Clark Fork. Both rivers are currently used regularly for rafting, kayaking, fly fishing and other recreations. The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has had accidents at virtually all its mines. It has been cited and fined frequently for toxic discharges into nearby waters. The company has never mined gold in the United States. Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts. Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time. Even in dilute solutions, cyanide kills fish and other life forms. A leak of this chemical poison into the Blackfoot could finish the river for decades. In November, the people of Montana will be voting for or against Initiative 122, "The Clean Water Initiative". This initiative demands higher standards for removal of carcinogens and toxins before being discharged into state waters. The current law, one of the most lax water quality laws in the country, allows mine discharges to be diluted after release into state waters, where it is measured down stream after a "mixing zone". The "mixing zone" technique uses the river to dilute waste rather than using expensive machinery to filter it out. The current "easy to mine cheaply" water law is one of the reasons so many mining corporations seek Montana sites over mine sites in other states. The Phelps Dodge Mining Co. has spent over 1 million dollars on TV and radio adds in recent months, which Missoula and other communities across the state have been bombarded with. The adds claim that state water laws are sufficient, which they clearly are not, and that stricter laws for removing higher levels of poisons before discharge from mines will put many mines out of business and hurt the states economy. The so-called "Montanans for Common Sense Water Laws" advertisements that the mining industry has created have been cited as being "illegal" by the fair-election watchdog group, "Common Cause". "Using a misleading name, "Montanans for Common Sense Water Laws," to run a million-dollar media blitz, the Industry is succeeding in changing citizen beliefs, and they’re breaking the law to do it." (Hal Harper, Democratic state representative from Helena, MT.) Unfortunately, many people in the state have been scared by these ads, and swayed into believing that I-122 will hurt the economy and that it unfairly targets the mining industry. The fact is that mining state-wide, accounts for less than one percent of the workforce, and mining has a long history of causing post mining recessions that hurt the economy. On top of the adds, the mining industry has donated computers to the local high school, X-ray machines to the local clinic and it helped to insulate the local senior citizens facility in an attempt to win support for the upcoming vote against the Clean Water Initiative. Proponents of I-122 believe that if a mine can not find a way to clean up their mess before they release water into the river, they should not be mining in the first place. Supporters of I-122 have raised only around 300 thousand dollars toward the fight to make higher water quality standards law, so we need as much support as possible. The Clark Fork-Pend Oreille Coalition recommends writing or contacting the following people to voice your opinion or concerns: Write to Montana governor Marc Racicot, who currently favors mining and opposes I-122. Gov. Marc Racicot Capitol Station Helena, MT 59620 (406)444-3111 The Phelps Dodge Mine Co. has applied to the Montana Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ) for a permit to build this mine. Write Sandi Olsen at the DEQ. Ask her to put you on the mailing list for public scoping on the Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) that the DEQ will prepare once it deems Phelps Dodge’s application complete. The findings are what determine whether the state approves or denies this permit. Sandi Olsen Montana DEQ P.O. Box 200901 Helena, MT 59620 (406)444-4988 Write a letter to your local newspaper. Explain that the Blackfoot is too precious to trade for the short-term and questionable benefits from mining. Remember; this is not just a Montana problem. We all need to speak out against giant corporations that value their own interests of profit and gain over people and environment! For more information and updates on this issue, please contact the following: Clark Fork- pend Oreille Coalition P.O. Box 7593 Missoula, MT 59807 (406)542-0539 Montana Council of Trout Unlimited P.O Box 7186 Missoula, MT 59807 (406)543-0054 Montana Environmental Information Center P.O. Box 1184 Helena, MT 59624 (406)443-2520 I am a University of Montana student and am not affiliated with any of the above organizations. I am just attempting to help get the word out that what may happen if I-122 loses, is the destruction of a river and an eco-system that can not be replaced for decades. Much of the above information came from articles from the San Francisco Examiner, The Missoulian, the Great Falls Tribune, the Clark Fork-pend Oreille Coalition and my own research and discussions with other sources. Craig Murphy
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Trout Fly Fishing » Southern California Fly Fishing
I’m headed to Palm Springs for a week in early April and was wondering if there are any trout streams remotely close by or is that area all simply desert and dried up lakes? Any info anyone has would be appreciated. 1st time going to Palm Springs. Is all the fly fishing for trout in Middle and Northern California? TO WET LINES AND FULL TUMMYS, Chris Willman La Crosse, Wisconsin
Try the area around Lake Isabella in Kern County, especially the north fork of the Kern River. The rainbows are small, but a lot of fun anyway.
A lot is going to depend on the weather and snowpack. The Santa Ana River in and out of the canyon. Deep Creek flowing northwest out of the Running Springs area is some good fishing also. Holcomb Creek is a trib. to Deep Creek and also had some good trout in the lower end, but that is a good hike. Whitewater Creek flows off of the south side of Mt. Gorgonio and also harbors trout and a hydroelectric powerplant(!) It’s been a while since I’ve fished down there, so you might want to check at one of the local shops like Marriot’s in Fullerton for further information. have fun! Jim, Nevada Jim’s Outdoor Sports, Elko, NV
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Flyfishing » Medical Seminar/Flyfishing
That Medico-Legal Seminar you mentioned is a great deal. I attended one they sponsored on Abaco last year. The material and the bonefishing was super.
Peace & Plenty Bonefish Lodge, Bahamas, will be the site of the second 1996 Medical-Legal-Dental Update; CME CAT.1 approved with extensive CLE and CDE accreditation. In late June, the third 1996 seminar will be held at Five Rivers Lodge, Montana. Great fishing,superior accommodations; important 20 hour seminar presented by American Educational Institute. Also, later in year; Alaska for trout and salmon, Mexico for bass. email International
Peace & Plenty Bonefish Lodge, Bahamas, will be the site of the second 1996 Medical-Legal-Dental Update; CME CAT.1 approved with extensive CLE and CDE accreditation. In late June, the third 1996 seminar will be
<…blah, blah, blah I want one of these things for part-time, untenured English teachers. We’d have a lot more fun, and we’d give the guides a lot less trouble.
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Childhood fishing story.
I thought it might be fun if we could share some significant fishing experiences from childhood. The following one is as vivid in my mind as the day it happened. When I was about 8 years old my family was camping at Red Haw State Park near Chariton, Iowa. I was a master at catching bluegill and bullheads by this time, but like most boys this age I wanted to catch a bass like a real man. I had a Zebco 202 and a cheap fiberglass rod and a bullfrog pattern Heddon Lucky 13 surface lure. I walked down the steeply sloping trail under huge overhanging oak trees to the waters edge and began making long casts out into a narrow cove of Red Haw Lake. After several casts the surface errupted around my lure. I started cranking like mad against the drag as the fish pulled line off my reel. Then the fish made a spectacular head shaking jump and the lure flew from his mouth. Looking back I would guess the fish was 3-5 pounds. I was left on the bank with my heart pounding and nothing to take back to camp but a story. But from that day forth I was not just a fisherman. I was a BASS FISHERMAN. In the next couple of years I discovered the Mepps squirrel tail spinner, floating Rapala, Beetlespin, and Mister Twister grub, which were all a little easier to handle on light tackle. I caught a lot of small bass on these, but was always hoping to hook another one like the one I lost on that Lucky 13. What about you? Got a story to tell?
[great story deleted] What about you? Got a story to tell?
Yep. I was about 10 years old and a reasonably accomplished stream fisherman at the time. We were fishing the St. Joe River in N. Idaho with my brother and his family. All Denny could talk about was the big fish they catch in Lake Crowley (Calif) and was pretty cocky about fishing the next day. Denny is about 15 yrs. older and lived in Calif. at the time. Early the next morning dad dropped us off to cover different stretches of the river and planned to meet later in the morning. I had a great day catching and releasing cutthroat in the 12" to 14" range when I hooked what I thought was a monster. I battled this fish for 20 minutes and finally landed him as the line broke. He was spent and I was still able to get him on the bank. The fish was a huge cutthroat that weighed about 3 lbs. Biggest I ever saw in the St. Joe. We met later and Denny had 2 12" fish and he announced that fishing was terrible. I held up my fish and politely disagreed. He barely spoke to me the rest of his visit. At least he wasn’t quite so cocky and rarely talked about the big fish in Crowley. I remember this vividly because he usually outfishes me in any other visit I remember. Terry — Terry Turner My body is mostly water so I fish. 503-685-3649 by mowing the lawn. *****Opinions here are my own and not necessarily the views of Tektronix****
Back I guess about 1965 my brother Bob an I spent a lot of weekends fishing at my uncle’s cabin on Long lake located in northern Wisconsin. I remember one day when we were fishing from shore for bluegills when Bob decided to catch a frog and hook it thru the back and put on a big bobber. I remember watching the frog swimming and pulling this big bobber around. All of a sudden the bobber disappeared under the water, and Bob started reeling his zebco 202 like mad. This fish had his pole bent in a "u" and it seemed all he could do is hang on to it. Then his reel jammed up and he could’nt reel any more line in, so he starts backing up off the narrow shore into the woods in order to land this fish. I stayed next to the water and waited for him to get the fish to shore. After a little while he managed to pull this ~10lb northern pike into the shallows and I jumped on it pinning it down with our (small) net. I remember calling to Bob to come help and he was far enough back into the woods he couldn’t see what he had landed. I still don’t think my folks or Aunt and Uncle belived the story we told, but we had the fish to show. 8^)
When I was fifteen, my folks decided that we should leave Tennessee for a month and visit my grandparents in Oregon. Being a group of rabid anglers, we set off one day to fish the Williamson river during one of its famous salmon fly hatches. I had never seen a trout over 1 1/2 lbs before, but that day I hooked a 5-6 lb Rainbow on a Rooster Tail spinner. I fought him to exhaustion, lunged for him with my hands. Cradling him like a baby, I rolled onto the bank with my prize only to find myself staring at the boots of some Orvis clad goober from Californication. He immediately said, "Anybody can catch’em on those damn spinners; I hope you’re gonna let him go." This jackass with his misguided purism had burst the bubble of my greatest catch of all time. He has gone down in our family lore as "the preacher." Today, I am a dedicated catch and release fly fisherman but, because of this experience I will never tell somebody else that he "ain’t fishing right." By the way, I took the fish home and boy was it tasty. Cal in troutless Indiana
Cal in troutless Indiana
TROUTLESS Indiana???? I just spent 8 weekends chasing Skamania acrobats all over the Mich City area. WOW. THen there is the fall steel head run and the winter steelhead run then the spring steelhead run, then the even FROM Indiana (mostly to).
Cal in troutless Indiana TROUTLESS Indiana???? I just spent 8 weekends chasing Skamania acrobats all over the Mich City area. WOW. THen there is the fall steel head run and the winter steelhead run then the spring steelhead run, then the even FROM Indiana (mostly to).
SCUSE ME, Cal in troutless Southern Indiana PS Actually I tried some winter steelie action on Trail creek but couldn’t make it work. Please drop me a line and tell me about your exploits
As a young boy, growing up in the state of Vermont, I was fortunate enough to have a father that took me fishing with him. We often fished some of the larger rivers and lakes of the state, but more typically it was a trip to one of the local brooks to catch a limit of "brookies". The brookies were usually caught by approaching the shallow brook on your hands and knees to avoid being spotted, by flipping your worm into the pool in the exact location to miss the alders, by watching the fish dart out from the cover of the bank to take your worm and then timing the "snap" at the right time to flip your trophy of 9 inches out of the water. My most rememorable fish was a lunker of 13.5" that I flipped onto the shore and caught with my hands as I slid along the muddy shore of the brook face first. Today I live in an area where brook trout and most other native trout no longer exist. It is not uncommon for people to have $25,000 worth of equipment to try to catch the biggest of the biggest fish. I love to fish and have caught fish of all sizes with all of the latest and greatest techniques and equipment. But to this day, when asked about my most memorable fish, I will not refer to a 30 lb. Salmon, a 6 lb. Walleye, or a 5 lb. Bass. I will refer to that brookie I caught with my dad in the hills of Vermont. — These views do not represent those of Eastman Kodak Co.