Question:

I’m probably breaking some copywright law, but from the Lewiston ID Tribune but.. George Eugene (Billis) Gehrke, an avid fly fisherman, inventor and writer, passed away Sunday Dec. 8, 2002, at his Asotin home. He was 68. He was born July 28, 1934, in Toledo, Ohio. Graduating from Anthony Wayne High School in 1954, he was the first in his class to go directly into the Air Force Cadet Program. After his tour with the Air Force, he married the love of his life, Gladys Gray, Sept. 6, 1958, in Toledo. He often told others how lucky he was to have her in his life and how much he loved her. George owned a fly fishing company and manufactured its products since 1973. He is survived by his wife, Gladys, at the Asotin home; three sons, Robert of Panama City, Fla., Stuart of Trout Creek, Colo., and Gregory of Asotin; three daughters, Rosemary Tafoya of Asotin, Tracy Castaneda of Houston and Georgia Gehrke of Kapaa, Hawaii. He is also survived by a sister, Karol Ann of Archie, Mo.; brothers, Ernest Gehrke and John Billis of Ohio; uncle C.M. Kurczak of Baton Rouge, La.; several nieces and nephews; 11 grandchildren; and many, many friends. A memorial service will be held at 1 p.m. Thursday at the family home at Asotin. Vassar-Rawls Funeral Home of Lewiston is in charge of arrangements.

Response:

Thanks Wayne, for passing that along. Rest in Peace, George. bruce h

Response:

Question:

Pounding, powerful and relentless, against uncaring and eternal sand, each wave seems to reach a little further, striving for the spot on which I stand. Two steps forward, three steps back, the dance is similar for every cast, a constant rhythm, lulling and relaxing, who knows how much time has passed? Feet, sinking in, requiring that one shuffle now and then, a welcome break, Casting, waiting, watching, senses tensed, hoping  for the long expected take. Was that a bite? Or merely seaweed drifting in the current, dead, but active still, Perhaps a wily seatrout or a cod, just mouthed the fly, and moves in for the kill? Shooting stars distract, hurtling brilliant through the cold and crackling winter night, freezing fingers, cold protesting feet, red face and dripping nose, a sorry plight, legs, slowly turning numb, arms aching from the constant and unceasing strain, rod held high. above the waves, each tiny pluck and movement causes pain Swimming, hopefully enticingly, the fly, spurred on by faith and hope and thought, approaches yet again the crashing waves, hovers for a moment, once more caught, capricious currents, drive it, to wobble, shimmer, shake and  twist and bend. much like the thoughts of  he, who patient and persistent, holds fast the other end. At last! A solid take, and line runs freely from the spool, twenty yards or more, Rod bends, arms tense, back bends, heels dig deeper into crumbling shore, the battle wages, fish and man, bound now by tenuous strands, far mightier than steel, commence to measure, each their skill, with each run and leap, each hard-won turn of reel. Eyes, long since accustomed to the starry night, still strain to see a glimpse or flash, who knows what might have taken? and then the fish leaps, falling with a mighty splash, a silver ghost, a monster, a prize beyond compare, rising from the dark and restless deep, how long and hard must angler fight, before he be allowed his prize to land and keep? Hours and nights, long winters, in cold and storm,  for many  seasons he has stood, searching, learning, hoping,  waiting, to gain just such a prize, from the raging flood, Alas, this night, although he uses every trick and all his skill, it is simply not to be, almost within his grasp, his prize spits contemptuously the hook, and sinks into the sea. Freezing now, disconsolate, gear is packed, and angler turns to home along the beach, the prize is gone, but angler knows, that this time it was very nearly well within his reach, there will be other nights, perhaps indeed much greater prizes, things well beyond compare, should you seek such, haste to the beach, you will find angler, watching, waiting, hoping, there. TL MC

Response:

Thanks, Mike. Danl Pounding, powerful and relentless, against uncaring and eternal sand, each wave seems to reach a little further, striving for the spot on which I

[Great lines snipped]…..

Response:

OK Mike you are starting to worry me. As always I enjoy your dissertations and sharp wit.  However this is another long message, why are you spending this much time in front of the computer instead of fishing?  Your current posts are what I would expect to see in January and February not in August. Just askin a question Dave —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pounding, powerful and relentless, against uncaring and eternal sand, each wave seems to reach a little further, striving for the spot on which I stand. Two steps forward, three steps back, the dance is similar for every cast, a constant rhythm, lulling and relaxing, who knows how much time has passed? Feet, sinking in, requiring that one shuffle now and then, a welcome break, Casting, waiting, watching, senses tensed, hoping  for the long expected take. Was that a bite? Or merely seaweed drifting in the current, dead, but active still, Perhaps a wily seatrout or a cod, just mouthed the fly, and moves in for the kill? Shooting stars distract, hurtling brilliant through the cold and crackling winter night, freezing fingers, cold protesting feet, red face and dripping nose, a sorry plight, legs, slowly turning numb, arms aching from the constant and unceasing strain, rod held high. above the waves, each tiny pluck and movement causes pain Swimming, hopefully enticingly, the fly, spurred on by faith and hope and thought, approaches yet again the crashing waves, hovers for a moment, once more caught, capricious currents, drive it, to wobble, shimmer, shake and  twist and bend. much like the thoughts of  he, who patient and persistent, holds fast the other end. At last! A solid take, and line runs freely from the spool, twenty yards or more, Rod bends, arms tense, back bends, heels dig deeper into crumbling shore, the battle wages, fish and man, bound now by tenuous strands, far mightier than steel, commence to measure, each their skill, with each run and leap, each hard-won turn of reel. Eyes, long since accustomed to the starry night, still strain to see a glimpse or flash, who knows what might have taken? and then the fish leaps, falling with a mighty splash, a silver ghost, a monster, a prize beyond compare, rising from the dark and restless deep, how long and hard must angler fight, before he be allowed his prize to land and keep? Hours and nights, long winters, in cold and storm,  for many  seasons he has stood, searching, learning, hoping,  waiting, to gain just such a prize, from the raging flood, Alas, this night, although he uses every trick and all his skill, it is simply not to be, almost within his grasp, his prize spits contemptuously the hook, and sinks into the sea. Freezing now, disconsolate, gear is packed, and angler turns to home along the beach, the prize is gone, but angler knows, that this time it was very nearly well within his reach, there will be other nights, perhaps indeed much greater prizes, things well beyond compare, should you seek such, haste to the beach, you will find angler, watching, waiting, hoping, there. TL MC

Response:

OK Mike you are starting to worry me. As always I enjoy your dissertations and sharp wit.  However this is another long message, why are you spending this much time in front of the computer instead of fishing?  Your current posts are what I would expect to see in January and February not in August. Just askin a question Dave

For various reasons, I am unable to go fishing at the moment.  I can still think about it though, and also reflect on past trips. I don

Question:

Are there any good fly shops in Montreal? I want to take advantage of the

Response:

Last I checked (I live up the road in Ottawa), there were two fly shops in downtown Montreal on (I think McGill Street).  One of them is called Boutique Salmo Nature.  Another option is to call up WWW.WWDOAK.COM.  They are in New Brunswick, but they do a lot of mail order business with American sports.  Also, they have small town overhead, so they might be cheaper than a downtown Montreal shop. Keep your stick on the ice, Thos. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are there any good fly shops in Montreal? I want to take advantage of

Response:

Are there any good fly shops in Montreal? I want to take advantage of the

Try Peter Farago at Boutique Classique Angler, 414 McGill St. Montreal (514) 878-3474.  Salmo Nature, the Orvis shop, is on McGill also, just a couple of blocks down from Classique.  But I don’t have their business card for the details. Peter Email address hacked. Remove -delete-this- to email a reply.

Response:

There are a few good fly shps in Montreal, but if your interrested you could contact the Montreal Fly Fish Association (Moucheurs Montreal M

Question:

I have only been posting to this group for a few months but have been a loyal reader for a couple of readers (just didn’t feel comfortable posting quite yet) The C&R vs. C&E debate has been flogged to death! [snip] Please let’s get back to what we are reading this group for in the first place. "Catch & Release everything you legally have to, or don’t want to eat"

Ya know, your entreaty would probably go down a lot easier if you didn’t tag it with that parting shot… /dave

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have only been posting to this group for a few months but have been a loyal reader for a couple of readers (just didn’t feel comfortable posting quite yet) The C&R vs. C&E debate has been flogged to death! [snip] Please let’s get back to what we are reading this group for in the first place. "Catch & Release everything you legally have to, or don’t want to eat" Ya know, your entreaty would probably go down a lot easier if you didn’t tag it with that parting shot… /dave

Its my foolish attempt at being politically correct. I knew it would be upsetting to someone, but then I like the bumper sticker that said         "Nuke the unborn gay whales" Cheers

Response:

I for one cannot imagine anything finer than a crisp fall morning, solitary stretch of river and a screaming reel attached to 15lbs. of fury. Please let’s get back to what we are reading this group for in the first place. "Catch & Release everything you legally have to, or don’t want to eat" Consider it done.  I had my fill. Question is; who’ll volunteer to tell "you know who"? Peter

I believe that Tim has ceased posting for a while. (We all need to catch our breath every now and then) I’m sure he’ll be back with a vengeance crusading against yuppies, Orvis and the rest of the sport-ute crowd. Any way, to begin discussions about our quarry, This year (fall 1997)the Thompson river in B.C.(river of the champion steelhead ) experienced a very late return that almost shut down the river to all sport fisherman (Fisheries thought that they were not going to return at all). This fishery has experienced unbelievable hardship over the past 10 years and this year’s return was less than 1000 spawners! The one bright spot in the last 10 years was fall 1996, when escapement was estimated at between 3500 and 4000. It must be mere coincidence that 1996 was also the first year in recent memory when DFO had the balls the cancel the Fraser river Gillnet fishery for sockeye and chum salmon. It was also the best returns for chinooks in the Vedder and Chehalis rivers. I had the best year at the Thompson ever and every one else I fished with also had a very good year. My point is this…. WHEN WILL OUR APPOINTED "EXPERTS" FIGURE OUT THAT THE GREATEST THREAT TO THE RESOURCE IS THE COMMERCIAL BASTARDS THAT CONTINUE TO RAPE THE RESOURCE? All sport anglers must unite to eliminate this form of fishing. On the west coast of Canada, Commercial fishing is a NET LOSS to the economy. The cost of all activities associated with the commercial catch and subsidies and employment insurance to fishermen actually is greater than the value of fish caught. Yet our Federal government continues to support this destruction. By comparison the Sport fishery is a BILLION dollar boost to B.C’s economy and harvests less than 10% of the stocks. While the American and Canadian governments squabble over the percentage of harvest for each country, the stocks dwindle, and the only ones who really suffer are the fish. Its time for all anglers to quit our minor petty arguments and fight the real threat…the commercial rapers. It doesn’t matter if your C&E or C&R, Fly or bait, Green or purple, write a letter to your elected offical (on both sides of the border) and lets put some pressure where it will really help the resource! Boy do I feel better! "Catch and release everything you legally have to, or don’t want to eat"

Response:

I have only been posting to this group for a few months but have been a loyal reader for a couple of readers (just didn’t feel comfortable posting quite yet) The C&R vs. C&E debate has been flogged to death! None of you will change the minds of the other side and each is as much a barbarian as the other. Let’s get back to the true nature of this group and discuss techniques and quarry. I for one cannot imagine anything finer than a crisp fall morning, solitary stretch of river and a screaming reel attached to 15lbs. of fury. Please let’s get back to what we are reading this group for in the first place. "Catch & Release everything you legally have to, or don’t want to eat"

Consider it done.  I had my fill. Question is; who’ll volunteer to tell "you know who"? Peter

Response:

Please let’s get back to what we are reading this group for in the first place. "Catch & Release everything you legally have to, or don’t want to eat"

        by god, steve, i think you’ve got it!  these two sentences should be required reading for the whole goddam bunch.  turn the obvious intellectual and literary talents of the whole crowd to other pursuits, and this newsgroup would be a source of constant wonder. otherwise, it’s just about as much fun as watching samson turn the miller’s wheel, while delilah laughs offstage; the bitch.

Response:

: a screaming reel attached to 15lbs. of fury. Please let’s get back to : what we are reading this group for in the first place. OK, you start. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

I have only been posting to this group for a few months but have been a loyal reader for a couple of readers (just didn’t feel comfortable posting quite yet) The C&R vs. C&E debate has been flogged to death! None of you will change the minds of the other side and each is as much a barbarian as the other. Let’s get back to the true nature of this group and discuss techniques and quarry. I for one cannot imagine anything finer than a crisp fall morning, solitary stretch of river and a screaming reel attached to 15lbs. of fury. Please let’s get back to what we are reading this group for in the first place. "Catch & Release everything you legally have to, or don’t want to eat"

Response:

Question:

bellows writes: actually, the reverse of that is what we should be looking for.  we should work to stop the offshore-mixed stock fisheries and work to create selective harvest methods in terminal fisheries.  you are right though, we cannot have both offshore mix-stock and terminal fisheries at the same time.  the tribes didn’t destroy the resource, and they probably take less columbia river fish than alaska and canada (steelhead excepted).  the problem is the method, gill-nets are plain wrong when you have co-mingled fish stocks, which is basically all the time.

Modify or eliminate the dams, and there would be plenty of wild salmon for everyone. CQ

Response:

I want to expand further on what I discussed in my first post.  I didn’t take  the time to go into detail so I came away sounding like a redneck who doesn’t  feel the tribes should have access to the fish.  They should.  Afterall, they  were fishing for salmon long before the first European stepped foot on the  land in North America.  However, I think there are better solutions out there  then running gill nets around the clock for several weeks at a time.

you are correct, there are options.  the state and feds should be trying to develop and encourage selective fisheries when it comes to commercial fisheries, whether they be treaty or non-treaty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Salmon/steelhead fishing has become a game of who has the most money in our  state.  I despise  politics because of special interest monies way of buying  influence vs. doing the right thing.  That is why I enjoy getting out on the  water.  It is one of the few acts that normally doesn’t involve much in the  way of politics.  Salmon/steelhead fishing is the exception to this.  If your  resources are endanger, common sense says you do the right thing and shut the  fishing down for a year or two to EVERYBODY.  That way, you get your fish  stocks back up  and the resource is boosted.  Cutting off sportsmen in the  least populated section of the state does nothing but tell us where we really  stand.

in most cases, i would agree with that statement regarding closures, but in the columbia river system will closures restore the stocks?  i believe that signifigant strides must be made towards increasing the survival of downstream and upstream migrants through the dams before real gains will be seen in the upper columbia basin.  it’s not just eastern washington getting the short end of the stick (resource).  where i live, along the strait of juan de fuca, communities are going belly up because salmon seasons have been cut dramatically, while commercial fishermen keep netting. One person mentioned that they didn’t think the tribal fishing accounted for  much of the catch.  If I am not mistaken, the tribes are entitled to 50% of  the commercial catch each year.  I may be mistaken on this but those are the  numbers I have heard.

i said that, and i stand behind it.  with regard to salmon the tribes take less fish than the offshore fisheries in alaska, canada and washington. with steelhead they are the only commercial fishers and catch too many wild fish in their nets (goes back to how much we need selective fisheries that allow the live release of wild fish).  the tribes are entitled to 50% of the fish, but they do not always catch the 50%. the problem with the tribal fisheries is that we can see what they are doing.  we don’t see the millions of fish that get caught off the coast, from alaska to the columbia, and the tribes get a larger share of the blame than they deserve (not that they are blameless). Irregardless of catch percentage, you can’t feel very good about seeing row  after row of nets all the way across the river during the main part of the  run.  You know that any type of fish that swims by is getting caught in the  net.   In closing, when you are dealing with a limited resource that is in much  demand, you can’t make everybody happy.  However, it just seems like the  sportsmen are the ones asked to give up their rights first.

the state had no other option but to close the upper columbia.  they have no control over the main problem, which are the dams, and very little control over tribal netting.  the date for listing was oct. 17th, so the state acted ahead of time.  next year will be the test year as to whether the tribal fishing will be restricted also.  another thing that made the closures automatic was the listing of the upper columbia hatchery fish (which heavily outnumber wild fish) as endangered.  this took away the option of fishing for hatchery fish and releasing wild fish, which has been the case for the seasons precluding this one.  I just bought a  new salmon fly rod blank a week before they closed down ALL of the steelhead  fisheries in my area.  I now have to drive 6 hours one way to use it. That  isn’t going to happen so I am building the rod for my sister in AK instead.  At least there she will get to use it.  At least in this round, I am the loser  while the folks who have the loudest voices still have all their fishing rights.

 it’s time to work for true restoration of wild, naturally spawning salmonids in the columbia system.  it’s time for BPA to put some money into wild, native fish management.  it’s time for other groups with loud voices such as the industries that use the columbia to the detriment of the fish to take some hits to restore the once large runs of salmon and steelhead to this river.  i’m willing to pay more money for electricity to help fund measures that help wild salmon.  i’m willing to accept closures to give the fish a break, but only if i see a real effort to restore the runs, not as an excuse to do nothing.  i would love to see the tribes sue the hell out of the government to make them take the steps to restore wild salmon.

Response:

actually, the reverse of that is what we should be looking for.  we should work to stop the offshore-mixed stock fisheries and work to create selective harvest methods in terminal fisheries.  you are right though, we cannot have both offshore mix-stock and terminal fisheries at the same time.  the tribes didn’t destroy the resource, and they probably take less columbia river fish than alaska and canada (steelhead excepted).  

I think it would be fair to say that Canada would support reduced interceptions of columbia River salmon to the extent you can persuade Alaska from intercepting fish bound for our rivers. I believe some action has been taken to protect Columbia River fish off the West Coast of Vancouver Island though I’m not sure of the numbers and it likely isn’t enough – however interceptions by Alaska are the major problem and have to be addressed. It’s an issue that have very broad implications far beyond the commercial fishery and the Pacific Salmon Treaty. Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

I had the good fortune of meeting the Director of Fish & Wildlife, Bern Shanks, last night while he spoke at the Renton Chapter of Puget Sound Anglers. His basic message was this: Unless we make some drastic changes in the way our state is managing our salmon and steelhead, we will no longer be charged with that management resposnibility, the Federal Government will. He said that it appears to those in Olympia that the only parties interested in the outcome of this struggle to save salmon are the commercial fishing interests and Washington tribes. Please read my article and contact a commissioner and your elected representatives in Olympia. There is a crucial vote pending before the F&W Commission that will decide on a Wild Salmonid Policy option that will have significant lasting impacts on our future abilities to fish for and catch salmon and steelhead in this state. My article can be found at http://www.nwfishing.com/dweitl/ww1.html Thanks. — David and B.J. Weitl Poulsbo, Washington Washington Statewide Fishing Reports http://www.nwfishing.com/dweitl/ww1.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David, Thanks for the update.  I know many anglers who are mad as hell at the way this  states salmon and steelhead are managed.  Skip Knowles, publisher of the  Washington Fishing and Hunting News, has been an ongoing advocate who has been  trying to raise everbodys awareness and has done a great job.  In my personal  opinion, the sportsman are just fed up with nobody listening to what we have  to say.  It seems that the commercial and tribal fisherman have all their  attention. A classic example of this is the recent listing of the upriver steelhead as  endangered species.  The tribal and commericial fisherman can net the hell out  of them in the lower Columbia, but once they pass a certain dam and are no  longer of interest to these two parties, they become "endangered."  The only  loser here is the sportsmen. Then, to top it off, some clown wants to open the Hanford reach to a commercial  fishing study two weeks later.  (The same fish that are now considered  endangered here would have been exposed to commercial nets!) Fortunately this  was nixed by Senator Murray. I personally don’t know what else to do.  It seems that special intersts have  outbid the sportsman to the the point that we don’t  have much of a voice  anymore. The solution here is simple:  GET THE TRIBAL NETS OUT OF THE WATER AND CREATE A  NON COMMERCIAL NO FISHING ZONE AROUND THE OUTLETS TO THESE RIVERS.

actually, the reverse of that is what we should be looking for.  we should work to stop the offshore-mixed stock fisheries and work to create selective harvest methods in terminal fisheries.  you are right though, we cannot have both offshore mix-stock and terminal fisheries at the same time.  the tribes didn’t destroy the resource, and they probably take less columbia river fish than alaska and canada (steelhead excepted).  the problem is the method, gill-nets are plain wrong when you have co-mingled fish stocks, which is basically all the time. bern shanks is on our side on this issue.  we must force the commision to follow his lead in protecting the resource, not special interests.

Response:

Question:

anyone interested in motorized bellyboats

Response:

anyone interested in motorized bellyboats

I would be interested to see one, just for the heck of it.  I don’t know if I’d ever actually use it.  That would just depend on the top speed.

Response:

yes!!   One difference, tho-   i use 2 ea  5′ peices of 15" lo-head irrigation pipe for pontoons and the frame allows me to be down in the water just over my legs.  the rear of the "system" has a mount for a small elec motor and a place for a big deep cycle battery.  Im close to 300# and belly boats are not made for guys my size!!!    However motorizing a "U" tube or regular floater has been done and a catalogue was available some 3 years ago.  Check with one of the local fly shops, or inquire to guides-  they have the exposure to things like that…..  if they are not too busy fishing!!! .

Response:

Question:

In order to bring my Web pages re/sourcing information for fly fishing up to date, I would like to fine tune SOFTWARE TOPICS. I am interested in availabe software dealing with fly fishing topics, specifically, fly tying, casting techniques, fishing and fly logs, fly catalogs, tide and weather information, etc. If you can point me to the correct E-Mail or URL locations for any such programs you might be aware of, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much for providing me the information.          Rx F Fish "For Your Good Health, Fly Fish" URL=http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish

Response:

In order to bring my Web pages re/sourcing information for fly fishing up to date, I would like to fine tune SOFTWARE TOPICS. I am interested in availabe software dealing with fly fishing topics, specifically, fly tying, casting techniques, fishing and fly logs, fly catalogs, tide and weather information, etc. If you can point me to the correct E-Mail or URL locations for any such programs you might be aware of, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much for providing me the information.         Rx F Fish "For Your Good Health, Fly Fish" URL=http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish

Try to Locate Elkwing as they put a good f tying CD ROM that is not bad.

Response:

Question:

Fabulous blue, striper and false albacore fly rod fishing at the point. Huge schools of blues hitting all day long (4-10 lbs.), bass averaging about 10-15 lbs with some as large as 35 lbs,  Albacore in and out of the blue schools hitting like  subway trains.  Incredible fly rod fishing both off the surf, jetties and especialy from small boats just outside the surf line.  Should get even better in the next few weeks.

Response:

10/10 I was at Montauk Point yesterday and it was incredibly crowded. For safety sake, I kept my 9wt  out of the action. Stripers and blues were around all day, largely within reach of only the longest surfcasters. When they came in close, it was a free for all. I watched one guy hook a 30 inch striper and then get hooked himself by an errant surfcaster as he fought the fish. It was wild as usual!  Flyfishers in boats were getting their gas money’s worth of action Nothing much was doing at Gin Beach, Ditch Plains or Fort Pond Bay during daylight hours. Where have you had your luck? David

Response:

Question:

Just a thought that myself and others were having.  What is the best solution for Paddlers and Flyfishers to co-exist.  Should a paddler proceed close to a fisher as to not spook trout or other species on the other side of whatever body of water or should they proceed as far away from the casting path as possible.  What are the opinions of others out there?  This is just a question to better inform myself and any others that might be concerned about the issue.

Response:

The North Umpqua River in Oregon is has stretches that are closed to boating between 6 p.m. and 10 a.m.  This seems to leave a reasonable amount of prime fishing time for the flyfisherpeople.  Despite this arrangement, I’ve had a fisherman demand that I tell him (at 5:30) whether there were any other boaters coming down the river after me as it I had some way of knowing.

Response:

Just a thought that myself and others were having.  What is the best solution for Paddlers and Flyfishers to co-exist.  Should a paddler proceed close to a fisher as to not spook trout or other species on the other side of whatever body of water or should they proceed as far away from the casting path as possible.  What are the opinions of others out there?  This is just a question to better inform myself and any others that might be concerned about the issue.

As both a paddler and flyfisher in the smaller New Mexican Streams I prefer the following courses of action if possible.  Many times you see the fisher standing knee to hip deep in the water casting forward.  This leaves enough room to go behind them but make sure first they see you or you could get caught on the back cast.  If the fisher is standing on shore and you see they cannot make the cast all the way across stream then follow the opposite shoreline.  If they are on shore and they can cast across stream then follow the path as close to the fisher as possible.  Sometimes fisherman will get spooked by this course of action but if you wisper on the way by that you didn’t want to spook the fish they were casting to then then are usually appreciative.  I say wisper because even normal talk is enough to spook fish.  So if normal talk can then unnecessary paddle noise can too, so try to be stealthy when possible and don’t scream out "how’s the fishing" on the way by.  If the fisher feels you are trying to be sensitive to their needs through the 50 feet of water you are passing through then it usually avoids problems.  This is how I approach it but would like to here comments on how others do it short of haul your boat out and walk around because I don’t think I would do this as a kayaker – it’s my river too. -Allen Sansano

Response:

The North Umpqua River in Oregon is has stretches that are closed to boating between 6 p.m. and 10 a.m.  This seems to leave a reasonable amount of prime fishing time for the flyfisherpeople.  

This might not seem so reasonable if the pale evening dun hatch started around 5:00.  Prime fishing time is when the fish are feeding. Despite this arrangement, I’ve had a fisherman demand that I tell him (at 5:30) whether there were any other boaters coming down the river after me as it I had some way of knowing.

Remember, kayakers on the river are much more maneuverable then a flyfisher that has waded out to a spot and is sight casting to a spooky brown trout sitting just behind a rock.  Most decent flyfishers just don’t flail away at the water in front of them but have a specific target in mind.   The best advice is to make sure that the person sees you.  When I encounter someone floating down the river while I’m flyfishing I’ll usually just stop casting and then motion them behind me and then say thanks as they pass for begin considerate. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems  Ithaca, NY

Response:

RE: Fly Fishermen & Paddlers—-         Here in the NY/NJ area, it’s been our habit to try to pass behind the fisherman if possible, or at the very least not to cut him off from shore.         We do try to be quiet, as part of the fishing experience is the solitude.  I often ask how things are, though, and maybe pass on what we’d seen upstream.         I am no longer concerned about disturbing their fishing opportunities, since I’ve had 3 fishermen get a trout from under my canoe!  If we talk with fishermen, we often find that their catching improves after we arrive or pass through.  Evidently we stir up enough bottom food to liven things up.         In short, stay polite, respect their privacy, & pass through as soon as you can.         –Joe P.

Response:

Just a thought that myself and others were having.  What is the best solution for Paddlers and Flyfishers to co-exist.  (?)

Best is if they are in the same boat.  Nothing is better than an experienced paddler to tend a canoe while you fish, to keep you "in the bucket" above steelhead holes or move the canoe at the same rate as your line and fly for a perfect drift. But, that’s not what you’re fishing for. When I am fishing and canoes approach, I always like it if the paddler holds out of my casting range until I graciously stop my cast and motion for them to move through. I direct them behind or close to me so there is no chance for them to upset fish I am working. If the current is such that they cannot stop, it is in my best interest to understand where they’re headed and allow for this.  In general I have a lot more control mf myself and my line than most canoeists of their boats. I would not expect a canoeist to alter their course in a difficult river to avoid the water I am fishing anymore than I expect privacy in a popular destination.  My experience is that fish spooked by canoes usually resume feeding in minutes. Mark Vinsel http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

Response:

Just a thought that myself and others were having.  What is the best solution for Paddlers and Flyfishers to co-exist.  Should a paddler proceed close to a fisher as to not spook trout or other species on the other side of whatever body of water or should they proceed as far away from the casting path as possible.  What are the opinions of others out there?  This is just a question to better inform myself and any others that might be concerned about the issue.

Richard,        Intresting question, but I flyfish out of my canoe and enjoy the best of both worlds.                         Steve

Response:

Many moons ago, on the AuSable in Michigan, there was a massive canoe hatch during the day.  All of my buddies cast deprecating remarks and retreated to there various campsites to commune with Jim or Jack (Beam or Daniels).  As an innocent just learning to fish for trout, I didn’t know that this was bad for fishing, so I just waved at the people as they went past and cast behind them. I found that this was the ONLY time I was able to catch fish.  Apparently the paddlers stirred up the nymphs which stirred up the fish which saw my fly and made me look good.   I probably caught more fish than the rest of the group combined on that trip. However, by the time I would get back to camp, Jim & Jack had their effects on my buddies, so I kept my little technique to myself.   I still don’t mind canoe hatches.  I have only had one incident where the paddlers tried unsuccessfully to avoid me due to lack of paddling ability and too much beer (mainly the latter).  I simply grabbed the gunwale of the canoe to steer them past me.  Unfortunately I grabbed it too hard and pushed the wrong way and the unfortunate drunks had a cold wet sobering up party.  I also decided that was an excellent time to leave the river and hunt another spot to fish. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The best advice is to make sure that the person sees you.  When I encounter someone floating down the river while I’m flyfishing I’ll usually just stop casting and then motion them behind me and then say thanks as they pass for begin considerate. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems  Ithaca, NY

Response:

I just ran the Big Hole in Montana and spent another day wading while fly fishing so I got a chance to see both sides.  As you might expect, one technique doesn’t fit all situations.  Always stay quiet and aviod splashing.  When possible and you can tell which way they are casting, go behind the person fishing.  Obviously this only works if they are far enough from the bank to leave room to navagate.  I don’t know if going right next to them works too well.  Most casters who aren’t experts can’t cast that far any you run the risk of interfering with their line or worse, hitting them with the boat or an oar.  Best to simply try to avoid going right owver their hole and stay away from them.  Better yet, this sounds like a good opportunity to strike up a conversation with a real fisherman (or woman) on the river.  For the record, approximatly 10 boats passed me (most professionally guided) and all went quietly and courteously behind me.   JDDRio (Dan Dunlap)                                                       "…the recklessness of water…"   REM

Response:

Question:

Any Ideas on what’s hot and what’s not??  Please post them.  Thanks

Response:

From what I’m told the Deerfield is one of the best rivers in the East for fly fishing. It’s up in North Western MA. Best points of entry along Route 2.

Response: